NEO Nyzul 2.0

[Demon6324236]

You could get a free floor after the soulflayer and a specified enemy after that floor and rebound from a shitty soulflayer floor too btw...the run isn't automatically over. Just shut up and enjoy the fact that it's easy and not that time consuming. It took me like 220 kills to get toci, I consider this a $$#%# gift.

I have gotten 1 free floor, ever, between normal and NNI, I don't count on that, and specified enemy floors, can be soulflayers, which is actually the kind of floors I was talking about anyways because I had one last run I did and it killed us both in time and in players, we had to split up and left 1 healer at the start. The 2nd group was to far away to be healed, the deaths caused a loss because unweakening and no Embrava on them anymore.


Yes....so is everything newer in FFXI at the moment.

But my problem is the fact thats how all new content is, if you just sit back and deal with it without complaining, and tell people to deal with it, they will keep throwing it at us thinking we don't care, if you actually voice your disappointment and disagreement with their current way of doing things it means they might take notice and actually change their ways. Doing nothing gets nothing done, I will run NNI with or without it being changed, same as I will do VW while I wait to see if they fix it, but I will also still come to this forum every day and tell them I think it should be changed, because I do not like the way they are doing things.

[Demon6324236]

seriously.. a "rep" posts here but sayn not 1 word about people cheating... or about the people admiting to cheating in this thread. This is a complete joke. Way to have 0 intergrity SE. Way to let people know its ok to cheat.

They are getting our money, they don't need integrity, so long as people keep paying they are perfectly happy I'm sure, that or they are planing a way to find all the people cheating somehow, and if they are, they are keeping it secret so people don't try to avoid it or stop cheating before the plan is complete.

I would honestly think even if the cheating is client side, they can check the files for things like changing names of things (lamps to find orders instantly) and with enough errors, ban them. Make an extra long update for something we know not what it is, and instead of actually updating alot, have it do minor updates, but alot of checking files against current files, if possible should work.

[user201108211515]

pc only servers and I'd be happy. Just to never have to look at another cheathing loser. sick of it. 8 years of fake pros pretending to be good. its so old.

[Demon6324236]

pc only servers and I'd be happy. Just to never have to look at another cheathing loser. sick of it. 8 years of fake pros pretending to be good. its so old.

I explained this problem already -_-;

[saevel]

If a great group with no hacks has a 20% win rate, thats 1 piece every FIVE days. That's 2.5 HOURS a week to get AMAZING gear. I personally wouldn't F-in care if I had a win rate of 5-10%...that's still freaking great reward for time/effort. Get over it. Stop trying to bring nin thf pup and crap to neo nyzle. If your group can't clear the content, you probably shouldn't be aiming for neo nyzle gear, and you should be aiming to better yourself and then try again. The event is perfect. Yeah order floors are a great @($@ blocker....just try again the next day. It's only 30 minutes. No reason to be complaining this is still too hard. 2 SCH 4 heavy DD...that is all you need. And no, you may not be mediocre geared. You better be able to pump out ws of 3k consistantly, or you're doing it wrong. This is getting exhausting hearing everyone call this event hard... or too luck based. Flat out, it has great reward/effort ratio.

Umm no.

A group of solid experienced 360 players has a 1 in 10~12 at best, typically your looking at 1 in 20. For every "my group made 100 without X / Y / Z" you have ten to twenty failures of that same group. You also have it so that the guy claiming "no hacks" is actually the SCH at the runic portal waiting to click jump, and he's correct that he doesn't need them. The four guys running around looking for lamps / specified enemy / kill all / ect.. are the ones who need "secret ninja techniques". The removal of the unknown element, to know the exact order of lamps and the exact number, to know the exact specified enemy or the exact enemy family (number) is an immense time saver. And even with that, a good group of experienced players will have a 50% clear rate.

That is what's broken with this event, when you could scale 5 floors at a time the random lamp BS was tolerable. Now that your expected to scale 17+ floors at once, all that random "screw you" stuff isn't tolerable. I'm all for SE removing the lamps, or making it so that each lamp tells you it's number in the sequence. Make "specified" enemy have a different name, specified enemy group have different names. In short they could make their own version of "ninja techniques" that everyone gets, even the 360 peeps. That's all they need to do, everything else is understandable.

[Monchat]

Don't pay attention tu Fupafighter. After all, he can use a weaponskill right before a melee round, he is the one, he can bend the rules of JA delay and all.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Amazing groups can get 50% win rate without hacks, stop trolling and speaking nonsense just because you can't do it.

You try too hard, and lie too quickly..... It's like arguing you can get a 50% win rate on lottery tickets.

POIDH

[wish12oz]

You try too hard, and lie too quickly..... It's like arguing you can get a 50% win rate on lottery tickets.

POIDH

People who don't even try and just sit around complaining are amazing.

I already explained it, all you need to do is be able to clear 19 floors on average, and that gives you a 50% win rate. If you can clear 15-17 floors on average, you'll get at least 1 piece of gear a week, thats where average groups will fall, one piece of gear a week for 7 30 min periods of effort is amazing by FFXI standards, stop complaining like a scrub, go make some friends and try.



A group of solid experienced 360 players has a 1 in 10~12 chance

I fail to see the problem with this. Stop expecting gear to be mailed to you by your moogle every time you log in, they already fixed the problems with neo nyzul.

Also: it's more like 20%

[Daniel_Hatcher]

People who don't even try and just sit around complaining are amazing.

I already explained it, all you need to do is be able to clear 19 floors on average, and that gives you a 50% win rate. If you can clear 15-17 floors on average, you'll get at least 1 piece of gear a week, thats where average groups will fall, one piece of gear a week for 7 30 min periods of effort is amazing by FFXI standards, stop complaining like a scrub, go make some friends and try.

Explain it all you like, you don't get a 50% win rate without lamp .dat swaps (minimum), no matter how hard you try to say you do.

This is still in SE's terms cheating.

[wish12oz]

Explain it all you like, you don't get a 50% win rate without lamp .dat swaps (minimum), no matter how hard you try to say you do.

This is still in SE's terms cheating.

Order lamps appear about once every 50 floors you actually do, theyre not a big deal. If you actually ever did the event you'd know this.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Order lamps appear about once every 50 floors you actually do, theyre not a big deal. If you actually ever did the event you'd know this.

You just don't seem to understand how luck goes. There is NO predetermined order. You can go from no lamp floors to multiple.

Let me post something you may understand (doubtful): An event should be based entirely on Skill NOT Luck!

[wish12oz]

You just don't seem to understand how luck goes. There is NO predetermined order. You can go from no lamp floors to multiple.

Let me post something you may understand (doubtful): An event should be based entirely on Skill NOT Luck!

This event is based entirely on skill. If you're skilled you can clear enough floors to have a good win rate and finish acquiring all the gear pretty fast.

[Dreamin]

Order lamps appear about once every 50 floors you actually do, theyre not a big deal. If you actually ever did the event you'd know this.

You are high or just lucky as hell if you get order lamps 1/50 floors. Show me a real statistics on this based on 1000's run with only getting 1/50's ordered lamps and not 10's or 100's run sample please. Statistics of small sample set are lol and not worth much of anything.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

This event is based entirely on skill. If you're skilled you can clear enough floors to have a good win rate and finish acquiring all the gear pretty fast.

It's like talking to a brick wall, either trolling or simple. I'm going with the former based on your history so....

Come back when you're not trolling, Thanks!

[wish12oz]

You are high or just lucky as hell if you get order lamps 1/50 floors. Show me a real statistics on this based on 1000's run with only getting 1/50's ordered lamps and not 10's or 100's run sample please. Statistics of small sample set are lol and not worth much of anything.

I only did 25~ runs and I only got 1 order floor every 2 or 3 runs. If you want specifics check the BG thread, lots of people posted their jump orders and what floors they got.


It's like talking to a brick wall, either trolling or simple. I'm going with the former based on your history so....

Come back when you're not trolling, Thanks!

It is like talking to a brick wall, you need to just accept that theres an event you actually have to get good gear and competent players for to clear. And after that you need to go and make some friends and try harder.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You are high or just lucky as hell if you get order lamps 1/50 floors. Show me a real statistics on this based on 1000's run with only getting 1/50's ordered lamps and not 10's or 100's run sample please. Statistics of small sample set are lol and not worth much of anything.
High actually makes sense.

[Dreamin]

This event is based entirely on skill. If you're skilled you can clear enough floors to have a good win rate and finish acquiring all the gear pretty fast.

NO, this event is based entirely on LUCK. This is the exactly what SE said:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20806-Nyzul-Isle-Uncharted-information-and-feedback?p=282143#poststop. Specifically, let me highlight for you the exact words:



...As a general guideline, the system has been balanced in such a way so that once you have gotten used to it, you should be able to reach floor 60. If you try really hard, you can get to floor 80, and then if luck is on your side you will able to reach floor 100.


see that word luck, which is near Tanaka's favorite word, BALANCE? Skill alone is only supposed to get you to floor 80 and not 100th. What Tanaka failed to see that CHEATS can replace LUCK and hence, 100th becomes NO LONGER LUCK based when CHEATS can be used. Which SOME of US refuses to use, which some can agrue is foolish because clearly, SE doesn't give a damn that MOST (noticed I didnt' say ALL) ppl who are beating 100th with any consistency are ALL using CHEATS.

[wish12oz]

see that word luck, which is near Tanaka's favorite word, BALANCE? Skill alone is only supposed to get you to floor 80 and not 100th. What Tanaka failed to see that CHEATS can replace LUCK and hence, 100th becomes NO LONGER LUCK based when CHEATS can be used. Which SOME of US refuses to use, which some can agrue is foolish because clearly, SE doesn't give a damn that MOST (noticed I didnt' say ALL) ppl who are beating 100th with any consistency are ALL using CHEATS.

Thats the way it was before the stopper was added. Now with it, it's vastly easier to get to 100. As long as you can get a good floor clear average (16+) you will get plenty of f100 wins.

[Demon6324236]

This event is based entirely on skill. If you're skilled you can clear enough floors to have a good win rate and finish acquiring all the gear pretty fast.

You get a random number for how many floors you go up. You get a random objective for every floor. You get random enemys on these floors. You get random numbers of said enemys to kill. You get random spawns that can go from the room next door to the room a 3 minute walk away... For something that is entirely based on skill, this seems like alot of random things, as with all random things, random, means it has luck involved. Luck is thus present and part of the event.

[wish12oz]

You get a random number for how many floors you go up. You get a random objective for every floor. You get random enemys on these floors. You get random numbers of said enemys to kill. You get random spawns that can go from the room next door to the room a 3 minute walk away... For something that is entirely based on skill, this seems like alot of random things, as with all random things, random, means it has luck involved. Luck is thus present and part of the event.

If you win 10-30% off the time, thats not luck. Winning 10-30% of the time requires clearing 16-17 floors on average. Once you can do that its no longer luck. If you do 1000's of runs you will average out to this number, thats the way it works. You'll get super bad runs, and youll get super easy runs, thats not important.

[Dreamin]

I only did 25~ runs and I only got 1 order floor every 2 or 3 runs. If you want specifics check the BG thread, lots of people posted their jump orders and what floors they got.



It is like talking to a brick wall, you need to just accept that theres an event you actually have to get good gear and competent players for to clear. And after that you need to go and make some friends and try harder.

I've read and follow that BG thread. There has YET to be any real proven report of ANYONE that has won a SINGLE time without using CHEATs or 3rd PARTY tools. I said proven because even the reported JP video only shows the view of 1 person and they have an amazingly lucky floor jump which to me seems to have fitted more to Tanaka's original intent than anything else.

Again, I've said dont show me 1's or 2's of ppl's floor jumping. And also, those that posted those are only posting their WIN floor jumps. And also, small sample size = meaningless exercise.

As for the 'spreadsheet' that most BG that keeps quoting. Remember, the stopper completely changes the jumping from a RNG number generator game into something a little different too as you approaches your desired floor.

I honestly do not want to go into a whole lecture and explanations on what probability and statistics are and how they are applied to the real world vs on paper, etc.

Again, my point here is to explain why so many 'angry' non-3rd party tools users are posting regarding this topic, because apparently, these TOOLS and CHEATS are beating Tanaka's LUCK and they do not or want to use these tools and they wanted SE to change it so that TOOLS cannot replace LUCK. But instead of just asking for mass banning, they are saying to SE here, that look, clearly your LUCK factor can be defeated by these TOOLs, so how about just fixing the event so that this whole LUCK factor will no longer be the DOMINATING factor in ever reaching 100th so that the event would be BALANCED in such a way that EVERYONE can have the same LEVEL playing field.

It isn't and shouldn't be the debate on whether using tools are cheats or not. Every sane person on BG agrees that using tools = cheats already. It's totally NOT about that. It's about having event that is TRULY BALANCED in the sense that EVERYONE has the SAME and FAIR shot at meeting the challenge of the event and NOT just a selected group of individuals who decided to use TOOLS and CHEATS.

[wish12oz]

I've read and follow that BG thread. There has YET to be any real proven report of ANYONE that has won a SINGLE time without using CHEATs or 3rd PARTY tools. I said proven because even the reported JP video only shows the view of 1 person and they have an amazingly lucky floor jump.

So theres no proof that no one won without hacks? lol, there's no proof only cheaters win either. Works both ways there guy, why dont you prove everyone with f100 gear cheated. I can tell you I've done a few runs completely legit with gimp jobs and won, but I doubt that would work for you since theres no videos of every single person at the runs.


Again, I've said dont show me 1's or 2's of ppl's floor jumping. And also, those that posted those are only posting their WIN floor jumps. And also, small sample size = meaningless exercise.

Why are you asking for samples than trying to discredit the only ones available? Is it because they'd just prove me to be right? lol


As for the 'spreadsheet' that most BG that keeps quoting. Remember, the stopper completely changes the jumping from a RNG number generator game into something a little different too as you approaches your desired floor.

It accounted for the stopper, and there's even probabilities for not having a stopper, and even some for 1-9 floor jumps and 1-10 floor jumps.


I honestly do not want to go into a whole lecture and explanations on what probability and statistics are and how they are applied to the real world vs on paper, etc.

Of course you don't want to do this, because it would just prove me right. That or to quote someone somewhere else, it's because you can't.

Keep trying to discredit that JP video too, just because you cant do it doesnt mean other people cant.

EDIT:: Anyway, Im tired of this thread again, see you all tomorrow or later if I get bored again.

[Demon6324236]

If you win 10-30% off the time, thats not luck. Winning 10-30% of the time requires clearing 16-17 floors on average. Once you can do that its no longer luck. If you do 1000's of runs you will average out to this number, thats the way it works. You'll get super bad runs, and youll get super easy runs, thats not important.

You are using logical math but this is luck, math doesn't apply to luck as we wish it did, if so then everyone with 100+ runs of a VWNM should have all its gear, this is not the case. Logical math does not work against random numbers and luck, you can roll a 6 sided die and get 6 100 times in a row, it is very very unlikely but it is possible, mathematically you should roll about 17 of each number, but you get 100 6s instead, at the same time you could get 100 1s.

I understand you have gotten lucky and you are a skilled player, you think that luck has no meaning. I will agree, luck has less meaning if you can make the time cuts on floors to give you more time for more floors. But if your only getting 2~3 floor jumps your entire run or you get bad floors like lamps, alot of kill alls, and spec enemys that are across the area, you will never win that run. Luck exists in this event, and it does beat you, skill matters too as it lets you do more floors in less time but luck will always play a factor in it, because its random parts that make up what it is.

Please try to understand what I'm trying to tell you, if even 1 single part in this is random, its luck based even a small bit, this has a great amount of parts in it that depend on random things, and so luck is a major factor.

[Gokku]

Im with demon , minus our initial runs our group has a 60% win rate and that 40% loss is when RNG fucks us hard im talking troll boss with no ws's and Pleiades Ray: AoE (approx 10') ~500 damage and Paralyze (weak), Blind, Poison, Plague, Bind, Silence, and a weak Slow (overwritten by haste). Not used until 20% HP. getting spammed in your face and mind purger mini boss 2-3 times in the run or the pdt flan 2-3 times.

[Fupafighter]

@Monchat. Sorry I use skill and time my weaponskills like a good samurai for a chance at procing hassozanshin and getting a free SC...didnt know that made me a noob. And I would gladly take a 10% win rate without cheats. If you need to cheat to get stuff, why even play?.....

[FrankReynolds]

I go to Vegas and win at the slot machines almost every time, because I have mad skills yo! All those losers complaining about bad luck need to get better at slot machines, because they are entirely skill based.

[Fupafighter]

I go to Vegas and win at the slot machines almost every time, because I have mad skills yo! All those losers complaining about bad luck need to get better at slot machines, because they are entirely skill based.
You weren't winning the slot machines with yo kannagi nin lemme tell you that >.>

[Benihana]

You weren't winning the slot machines with yo kannagi nin lemme tell you that >.>
or without money to begin with. lol

[FrankReynolds]

You weren't winning the slot machines with yo kannagi nin lemme tell you that >.>

Is it because I don't have a FUPA (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FUPA)? Or is it because I'm on one of my other 20+ jobs that I have leveled between my characters? Get a life and quit stalking my AH profile loser.

[Fupafighter]

Is it because I don't have a FUPA (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FUPA)? Or is it because I'm on one of my other 20+ jobs that I have leveled between my characters? Get a life and quit stalking my AH profile loser.

Didn't know having 20 jobs made you good at this game, I thought it was the opposite. I was just clearly going on about how you used to think nin was good for neo nyzle lol. Saying its damage was fine compared to other DD. lol.

[Demon6324236]

Didn't know having 20 jobs made you good at this game, I thought it was the opposite. I was just clearly going on about how you used to think nin was good for neo nyzle lol. Saying its damage was fine compared to other DD. lol.

You think having all jobs leveled is bad?

[Llana_Virren]

And so dies another thread with the exchange of unnecessary insults. I'll say this: having 20 jobs levelled is neither good nor bad. "I have a 99 xyz" is a moot argument when you can't play the job properly; not saying this applies to anyone, just saying that "having jobs levelled" is neither a positive nor a negative.

As for being a broken record, these are "official forums" not chatrooms; a few caveats and sideline conversations are fine, but the minute we start bickering and making uninformed, unsupported claims, or attack other members, we defeat the purpose of the forums.

We love to complain about how SE's dev team don't do anything of importance, yet we can't even stay on track about a simple thread without making things personal.

Keep your personal issues out of here, so we can keep these threads relevent to the issues at hand.

[FrankReynolds]

Didn't know having 20 jobs made you good at this game, I thought it was the opposite. I was just clearly going on about how you used to think nin was good for neo nyzle lol. Saying its damage was fine compared to other DD. lol.
Was that the thread where miss "I'm so good I can clear floor 100 all the time said :

I'm pretty disappointed with this crap. How about an event with progression, where you actually work towards stuff.
NO MORE DUMB LUCK BASED SYSTEMS PLEASE.

Or the one where you where you randomly started going on about how bad ninja was for no apparent reason when no one even brought ninja up, and then proclaimed that dancer was amazing in NI2.0?

[Demon6324236]

And so dies another thread with the exchange of unnecessary insults. I'll say this: having 20 jobs levelled is neither good nor bad. "I have a 99 xyz" is a moot argument when you can't play the job properly; not saying this applies to anyone, just saying that "having jobs levelled" is neither a positive nor a negative.

As for being a broken record, these are "official forums" not chatrooms; a few caveats and sideline conversations are fine, but the minute we start bickering and making uninformed, unsupported claims, or attack other members, we defeat the purpose of the forums.

We love to complain about how SE's dev team don't do anything of importance, yet we can't even stay on track about a simple thread without making things personal.

Keep your personal issues out of here, so we can keep these threads relevent to the issues at hand.

Agreed, I only made the comment because funny enough some jobs (at least RDM) have to level at least 15 to get a really nice WS piece since they don't get Twilight Helm. A forum is where we go to talk, share ideas, in this case we come here to tell SE what we think of what they are doing to their game. Some see faces they remember from other threads like these 2 and end up fighting in the thread stupidly, which harms the thread and also solves nothing. In any case people should just shutup and leave if they are going to do it, I mean look at the ADL thread, its a great show of derailment at its best!

[Khajit]

Perhaps the devs should give time extensions for completing the ordered lamp floors in 1~2 tries? As it stands you cant beat an ordered lamp floor in time to get where you want to go without cheating.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You think having all jobs leveled is bad?

It does limit gear quite severely. No matter how many jobs are on the same gear the fact is it's simply not possible to gear all jobs to the best of your ability.

[Chamaan]

So I got this odd idea. They introduced the astrarium system where you can trade a bunch of level 20 wins for a piece of level 40 gear and such. Can we get an option that lets us use those to buy a KI that lets us start at that floor instead? Like. Say you hit level 40 consistently, you store up 20 win tokens that can be traded for a 60 floor gear, but instead of the gear you get a KI that lets you start from level 40 instead of level 1. That way you get a better chance at a run to 100. Nothing gets nerfed, people willing to put hard work into the event get a fair shake without modding the game or cheating, and it gives us a reason to aim for floors other than 80 and 100.

[Demon6324236]

So I got this odd idea. They introduced the astrarium system where you can trade a bunch of level 20 wins for a piece of level 40 gear and such. Can we get an option that lets us use those to buy a KI that lets us start at that floor instead? Like. Say you hit level 40 consistently, you store up 20 win tokens that can be traded for a 60 floor gear, but instead of the gear you get a KI that lets you start from level 40 instead of level 1. That way you get a better chance at a run to 100. Nothing gets nerfed, people willing to put hard work into the event get a fair shake without modding the game or cheating, and it gives us a reason to aim for floors other than 80 and 100.

Chances are if they did this it would be expended when you goto that floor to start. It is a good idea never the less, but I still see rages because people fought floor 40 boss 25 times, then they had their 6 runs with 2 of them getting to 100 and the others getting bad jumps/floors.

[Demon6324236]

It does limit gear quite severely. No matter how many jobs are on the same gear the fact is it's simply not possible to gear all jobs to the best of your ability.

Not the best no, but soon you can get close. Honestly with the 3 VW gear sets and the NNI gear sets being put on storage slips now you will be able to hold alot of great gear with little space taken, between NNI, VW, and Emp+2 gear, most jobs are very well geared imo. However I will say yes it is harder to manage, myself I see more jobs as better, even if not the best geared if its truly needed you still have it, like MNK for blue procs in aby or SCH for NNI, Alex SMN for many things, all sorts of things you can benefit from just having the job, well geared or not, and so far as DDs go, much of their best gear is in VW & NNI which since it is soon to be storeable, I think we can safely say it will soon be easier to gear many jobs good/well/great, so long as space is mainly what you were referring to, if not then I'm not sure what, myself I think thats about the only big problem I have found ^_^;

[MarkovChain]

On a separate note, it seems like some players are finding the lamp floors to be the most troublesome. I would be happy to submit any suggestions you have for improving this aspect of Nyzul, so please list them out and I will talk to the development team about them.

Make the lamp order different than what you see with cheat tools (basically make the lamp order random) ? That's going to be fun. At least this way both cheaters and non cheaters are going to be on par. And it is going to have no effect if you don't cheat.

[user201108211515]

PC only servers please. Then cheaters can cheat all they want and platform players will have nothing to complain about.

[FrankReynolds]

I wasn't trying to claim that I have perfectly geared 20 jobs, or even that it would be a good idea. That guy saw that I have a kannagi, and can't let it go for some reason. So every time I chime in on a thread and say "I don't like this" or "they should change X to X", he chimes in about how ninja sucks in an attempt (I'll admit I'm a sucker for a good trolling every now and then) to derail my argument.

It's really not likely that too many people have mastered / geared 20 jobs. However, it's incredibly lame to act like a person can't be good at both Ninja and another job that is more well suited for Nyzul Isle.

I doubt SE will do anything about the current state, but the fact remains that all this content is incredibly cheap and repetitive. They should make this event easier. Not just because good gear should be accessible to everyone, but mainly because the event is too limited in scope to be fun for very long. The should have made an event that had more entertainment value if they wanted to make the gear so epic that it was going to require cheats / perfection and or months or grinding to get it.

They were lazy with this event and the result is that there are a few really good players and a whole bunch of cheaters who have the gear, and the rest of the population who are just alienated. I say this stuff because things are screwed up. I can flee hack and look through walls just as easilly as the next guy, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna pretend that's how it should be.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Make the lamp order different than what you see with cheat tools (basically make the lamp order random) ? That's going to be fun. At least this way both cheaters and non cheaters are going to be on par. And it is going to have no effect if you don't cheat.

Most Cheaters have the armour now anyway.

[user201108211515]

Most Cheaters have the armour now anyway.

Yup they are wearing a bullseye of sorts for when the ban hammer drops.. They will be the 1st to go. They will not be missed.

[Fupafighter]

I wasn't trying to claim that I have perfectly geared 20 jobs, or even that it would be a good idea. That guy saw that I have a kannagi, and can't let it go for some reason. So every time I chime in on a thread and say "I don't like this" or "they should change X to X", he chimes in about how ninja sucks in an attempt (I'll admit I'm a sucker for a good trolling every now and then) to derail my argument.

It's really not likely that too many people have mastered / geared 20 jobs. However, it's incredibly lame to act like a person can't be good at both Ninja and another job that is more well suited for Nyzul Isle.

I doubt SE will do anything about the current state, but the fact remains that all this content is incredibly cheap and repetitive. They should make this event easier. Not just because good gear should be accessible to everyone, but mainly because the event is too limited in scope to be fun for very long. The should have made an event that had more entertainment value if they wanted to make the gear so epic that it was going to require cheats / perfection and or months or grinding to get it.

They were lazy with this event and the result is that there are a few really good players and a whole bunch of cheaters who have the gear, and the rest of the population who are just alienated. I say this stuff because things are screwed up. I can flee hack and look through walls just as easilly as the next guy, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna pretend that's how it should be.
My point was you really can't be well geared for 20 jobs, unless you want standard +2 sets and gimp sets all over. I have 7 jobs and that is all I can afford gear wise. And you were talking about ninja being as good as other 2 hand DD in neo nyzle, which made me believe, even before sch x2 4 heavy DD burn for neo nyzle, that you had no idea how to do damage or gear properly, so I checked you on ffxiah.com ONCE. I never said you suck at ninja and can't play other DD jobs, I simply stated you were uninformed that ninja is a lackluster DD compared to other DD out of abyssea. When someone throws an insult at you, you call them a creep, or a fat tryhard. You're almost as blind as pimpchan, who thinks mnk tp as fast as sam. It's impossible to talk to you because you're biased and childish. You think everything is an insult and yet you insult others. Back on topic. The gear is available for anyone with a proper job setup. All you seriously need is 2 sch with 500 enhancing magic(not that hard), 4 heavy DD. Gearing a heavy DD job isn't hard either. YOu can get by easily and efficiently with a sam/war stardiver draco couse, or a drk with an AH great sword and resolution. Just make sure for the love of god that you're using 26% haste and a decent ws set. You have to have decent gear. No, skill will not win this event alone, because every second counts, thus better gear = more damage = better win rate. Just keep at it and you will eventually get gear.

[Fupafighter]

Not the best no, but soon you can get close. Honestly with the 3 VW gear sets and the NNI gear sets being put on storage slips now you will be able to hold alot of great gear with little space taken, between NNI, VW, and Emp+2 gear, most jobs are very well geared imo. However I will say yes it is harder to manage, myself I see more jobs as better, even if not the best geared if its truly needed you still have it, like MNK for blue procs in aby or SCH for NNI, Alex SMN for many things, all sorts of things you can benefit from just having the job, well geared or not, and so far as DDs go, much of their best gear is in VW & NNI which since it is soon to be storeable, I think we can safely say it will soon be easier to gear many jobs good/well/great, so long as space is mainly what you were referring to, if not then I'm not sure what, myself I think thats about the only big problem I have found ^_^;
Most voidwatch gear is situational and usually not recommended to weaponskill in, or tp in. Please people, stop Tping in toci's harness on jobs like mnk dnc nin, it's a downgrade....

[Demon6324236]

PC only servers please. Then cheaters can cheat all they want and platform players will have nothing to complain about.

1.Console games are no longer made, the player base would die off slowly with no way to rebuild.

2.Friends would be separated due to playing on different platforms.

3.Ls members would be separated due to playing on different platforms.

4.People would lose mules due to using different platforms to run multiple characters.

5.Servers for consoles & PC would need reworked completely due to the fact you can currently use any character on any platform, it would need reworked to be specific.

6.The game would need to identify which you play on so it knows where to put you.

7.Servers would need reworked to condense players into smaller servers to even out player population.

8.AH stock & supply would be hurt due to fewer players.

9.Shouts, partys, and events in general would be much more difficult due to fewer players.

10.Linkshells would break apart due to too many people of 1 platform being in it, and thus making the current ls shrink to an unacceptable size.

11.Payment options would be reintegrated for console players, as to allow paying without a PC.

12.By doing this SE would go back on the idea of taking many platforms and having them all play together with one another, to my knowledge part of the reason why FFXIV will not be coming to the X-box, because Microsoft does not wanting them connecting it with other platforms.


These are just a few problems your idea would create off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more I can't be bothered to think of at the moment, but these 12 should hopefully give you an idea how this is BAD.


What you ask for is stupid, unlikely, and would hurt/kill the game. Shut up, stop suggesting it, and stop thinking everyone on PC cheats. You sound like a racist cop "I arrest black people all the time but whites almost never do crimes, we should just lock up or send away all the black people, that would fix our problems." it sounds stupid, it is stupid, it shouldn't, and wont, happen. SE has kept us all on the same servers for awhile, its how the game was made, its how its been played all these years, shut up with the "platform racism" and understand it would hurt this game more than anything you stand to gain from it!

[Demon6324236]

Most voidwatch gear is situational and usually not recommended to weaponskill in, or tp in. Please people, stop Tping in toci's harness on jobs like mnk dnc nin, it's a downgrade....

Side Note:I was only speaking of storeable gear, this does not include shiny, only Ogier, Athos, and Rubeus for VW, but I do understand the limits of usefulness for this gear and reasons why it should not be fulltimed or used in most/all sets.

Ogier hands are best STP hands in the game, Rubeus hands are best enfeebling magic, Rubeus feet are great for all forms of skill if jobs do not have anything with more than +10 in that slot. Ogier head is great for tanking due to great -damage taken in that slot. Ogier body has decent haste while providing defensive traits as well such as -magic damage taken. Rubeus Spats are the best haste pants for most mages, be it for recast or meleeing they are nice. NNI gear, Heavy DD set has the best TP Head & Legs in the game for most or all jobs on it so far as I know. Mage set has the best MAB hands and feet in the game, best cure potency legs in the game, and a good nuking head. Light DD set is great for the jobs it is for as most can use everything except the head piece (which is swaped for AF3+2 head) and still cap haste while getting many amazing stats in general.

I am not saying they are the greatest pieces of gear but many are good/great, unstoreable gear like Ace's Leggings (which so far as I know is still the best feet for SAM & DRK TPing, not sure about DRG, not a big player of DRG...) are still multijobs and can be used as such, making them another potent piece of gear that takes little space. But its all in all a good list of good gear you can use and store now, I have no intent to super gear all jobs, but I will level them all and gear them at least decent, I have to level 15/20 at least anyways just for Maat's Cap because its the best CDC head RDM gets still...

[Fupafighter]

That's the problem with people. And that is why they struggle, because they do not attempt to make the best of themselves. And they expect floor 100 gear to drop for doing an event for a half hour lol. All it takes is the right setup. People seem to be willing to spam pil and kaggen for those bodies for months, but won't give new nyzle a chance because they actually have to try for a half hour a day?.... Come on. If you want neo nyzle gear for no effort involved at all, level sch.

[Demon6324236]

That's the problem with people. And that is why they struggle, because they do not attempt to make the best of themselves. And they expect floor 100 gear to drop for doing an event for a half hour lol. All it takes is the right setup. People seem to be willing to spam pil and kaggen for those bodies for months, but won't give new nyzle a chance because they actually have to try for a half hour a day?.... Come on. If you want neo nyzle gear for no effort involved at all, level sch.

The reason is the wait time I would think. Pil, Kaggen, these can be done as many times as you want so long as you have the people, where as Nyzul is only so long as you have tags which is at most 4 times in a single day. And SCHs only go so far, you still have to cap Enhancing magic, and work for the gear to get higher Enhancing magic. SCH is the easist of these jobs but still not a cake walk. I think its foolish an event is only able to be done effectivly with a certain setup, I would rather goto the idea of being able to play what I like and still be able to get what I want.

So far as people not trying to be the best they can be, I plan to make myself the best RDM possible, but even so, that changes nothing of the fact that other jobs I have leveled will never be worked on as much, your main is your main, chances are its where your heart lies and where you will spend most of your work and time to build upon. I am all for making myself a kick ass PLD since I already have some good gear for it and Emp/Relic swords, but it doesnt mean I plan to be a great or best possible PLD, its not my main. With VW/NNI gear you can be a highly effective DD, but all the same if its your main your more likely to put more work into it and push it to its limits.

[Fupafighter]

Every event has it's strong suits for setups. Otherwise everyone would be sam.

[Aldersyde]

That's the problem with people. And that is why they struggle, because they do not attempt to make the best of themselves. And they expect floor 100 gear to drop for doing an event for a half hour lol. All it takes is the right setup. People seem to be willing to spam pil and kaggen for those bodies for months, but won't give new nyzle a chance because they actually have to try for a half hour a day?.... Come on. If you want neo nyzle gear for no effort involved at all, level sch.

First off, understand that I'm not just picking at you. But the whole "level this, level that" is just bullshit mentality. Other mmos manage to involve a variety of jobs (or specs) in creating successful strategies to take down mobs and conduct raids. There's no reason whatsoever that FF can't do the same thing. It's utterly ridiculous that someone with whm, rdm, and blm (like I do) would have to level sch to do one frigging event. It's not my fault that SE decided to create an altogether redundant job and to compensate for it's overall uselessness (aside from being a subjob, which was SE's stated purpose for both dnc and sch) gave it a totally unbalanced and overpowered revamped 2 hour ability. Success in one event shouldn't hinge on abuse of such an ability, let alone two of the very same. That's just utter nonsense. I understand that some jobs are better at certain events than others but when the playerbase comes onto the official forums and says repeatedly that a very specific combination of jobs is absolutely necessary to come close to remotely succeeding, the event should be reassessed and adjusted.

I don't expect gear to be handed to me but I do expect developed content, which part of my monthly fees go towards, be accessible (especially when I have 7 jobs at 99) and have a reasonable chance of success without having a "chosen one" setup. Coming here and saying that not only do you need to abuse the embrava of not only one sch, but two, shows just how flawed the event really is.

And I don't care how easy it is to level a job. Boring is still boring. And after leveling, there's skilling up and gearing it. That time adds up, especially when you have family and a career and you play 2-3 hours every 2-3 days (and most of that is logging on for ls events). Needing specific setups to beat certain missions (like CoP) and events was bad design then, and it's still bad design now.

[Fupafighter]

First off, understand that I'm not just picking at you. But the whole "level this, level that" is just bullshit mentality. Other mmos manage to involve a variety of jobs (or specs) in creating successful strategies to take down mobs and conduct raids. There's no reason whatsoever that FF can't do the same thing. It's utterly ridiculous that someone with whm, rdm, and blm (like I do) would have to level sch to do one frigging event. It's not my fault that SE decided to create an altogether redundant job and to compensate for it's overall uselessness (aside from being a subjob, which was SE's stated purpose for both dnc and sch) gave it a totally unbalanced and overpowered revamped 2 hour ability. Success in one event shouldn't hinge on abuse of such an ability, let alone two of the very same. That's just utter nonsense. I understand that some jobs are better at certain events than others but when the playerbase comes onto the official forums and says repeatedly that a very specific combination of jobs is absolutely necessary to come close to remotely succeeding, the event should be reassessed and adjusted.

I don't expect gear to be handed to me but I do expect developed content, which part of my monthly fees go towards, be accessible (especially when I have 7 jobs at 99) and have a reasonable chance of success without having a "chosen one" setup. Coming here and saying that not only do you need to abuse the embrava of not only one sch, but two, shows just how flawed the event really is.

And I don't care how easy it is to level a job. Boring is still boring. And after leveling, there's skilling up and gearing it. That time adds up, especially when you have family and a career and you play 2-3 hours every 2-3 days (and most of that is logging on for ls events). Needing specific setups to beat certain missions (like CoP) and events was bad design then, and it's still bad design now.
1. If you have whm rdm and blm, you should seriously have most of the gear for enhancing magic, and sch should already be level 49. 2. If you don't have the enhancing magic or the gear, go get it? That's already telling me you shouldn't be in the event with low uncapped skills. Noone is forcing you to do this event.

[Camiie]

And thus we reach what's perhaps the most fundamental flaw of FFXI and perhaps MMORPGs in general. In order to truly succeed, fun must be sacrificed.

Of course I see Fupa is one of those, like many I used to see in ye olde HNM days, who'd tell others to level a certain job when they themselves would never do so. His SCH? Level 0.

[Demon6324236]

First off, understand that I'm not just picking at you. But the whole "level this, level that" is just bullshit mentality. Other mmos manage to involve a variety of jobs (or specs) in creating successful strategies to take down mobs and conduct raids. There's no reason whatsoever that FF can't do the same thing. It's utterly ridiculous that someone with whm, rdm, and blm (like I do) would have to level sch to do one frigging event. It's not my fault that SE decided to create an altogether redundant job and to compensate for it's overall uselessness (aside from being a subjob, which was SE's stated purpose for both dnc and sch) gave it a totally unbalanced and overpowered revamped 2 hour ability. Success in one event shouldn't hinge on abuse of such an ability, let alone two of the very same. That's just utter nonsense. I understand that some jobs are better at certain events than others but when the playerbase comes onto the official forums and says repeatedly that a very specific combination of jobs is absolutely necessary to come close to remotely succeeding, the event should be reassessed and adjusted.

I don't expect gear to be handed to me but I do expect developed content, which part of my monthly fees go towards, be accessible (especially when I have 7 jobs at 99) and have a reasonable chance of success without having a "chosen one" setup. Coming here and saying that not only do you need to abuse the embrava of not only one sch, but two, shows just how flawed the event really is.

And I don't care how easy it is to level a job. Boring is still boring. And after leveling, there's skilling up and gearing it. That time adds up, especially when you have family and a career and you play 2-3 hours every 2-3 days (and most of that is logging on for ls events). Needing specific setups to beat certain missions (like CoP) and events was bad design then, and it's still bad design now.

I will agree you are correct about not having to lv certain jobs to do well or do certain events, however... SE made the mistake of adding powers like Perfect Defense and Embrava/Kaustra, these powers mean SE must now base every event in a way these will not make it to easy, however due to their power they can make no event doable without them. NNI for instance, you have to have Embrava, if they made it doable without Embrava then Embrava would make it to easy. An example of this failure is the lv95~99 limit break, the fight could have been fun & hard, however they didn't anticipate the Perfect Defense zergs, and so the challenge was lost because of this oversight.

These 2hour are great but they have also caused substantial damage to how events must be made and played, Legion is so far as I know still basically unbeaten or done by very few, in either case its difficulty is another branch of that I think, because with Perfect Defense & Embrava fueling 18~36 people you will have a massively over powered group, as such you need a massively over powered event to compensate. People would rage and "balance" would need done of either of these ability's were removed however so not alot can be done, I'm hoping the new 2hours will balance it some, not SE balance, but real balance. I hope they will give jobs with lack luster 2hours a chance to participate in events and 2hours arnt your only reason for existance...

As for the uselessness comment about SCH, SCH can nuke as hard or harder than a BLM if geared correctly, with weather manipulation it has the highest magic acc so far as I know so debuffs are no problem, it has regen and new enhanced Cure IVs, all in all I dare to say SCH was overpowered BEFORE Embrava came to pass, it just furthered the power of SCH to a godly amount, the reason SCH is used for little and BLM wins is because of procs, plain and simple, BLM is only used in procing events so far as I have seen...




And thus we reach what's perhaps the most fundamental flaw of FFXI and perhaps MMORPGs in general. In order to truly succeed, fun must be sacrificed.

Of course I see Fupa is one of those, like many I used to see in ye olde HNM days, who'd tell others to level a certain job when they themselves would never do so. His SCH? Level 0.

He has a heavy DD as a main though, which means he can get into every single type of event, everything else gets 1~3 events they can go to out of Abyssea/Legion/VW/NNI/Everything old... About the only thing Heavy DD cant do actually is Dyna, everything party related they can do though, so no need to level other jobs. As for fun being sacrificed, thats universal, there are always 2 ways to go about things that stand out, the efficient way, and the entertaining way, we know the advantage to both and draw back to both, and so we make that choice. The main thing to remember is if you can be efficient now, you can get things to have more fun later, however if you have fun now, you may never have that chance to get what you want.

[Camiie]

As for fun being sacrificed, thats universal, there are always 2 ways to go about things that stand out, the efficient way, and the entertaining way, we know the advantage to both and draw back to both, and so we make that choice. The main thing to remember is if you can be efficient now, you can get things to have more fun later, however if you have fun now, you may never have that chance to get what you want.

The problem is there rarely is any fun to be had later. You're not sacrificing fun now for fun later. You're sacrificing fun for gear that only helps you do the stuff that you were just doing a little bit faster.

The problem with MMORPG developers, and SE in particular, is they tend to forget the G on the end and what it is supposed to mean. Nyzul 2.0 is a ridiculously glaring example of that, and they refuse to comprehend it.

[MarkovChain]

The problem with the event is that it goes against SE intend to balance reward/effort. They wanted 100% drop rate with super hard goal to achive and they totally skipped the part where everyone uses third party that tremendously helps you. We could have had a moderate difficulty to reach last floor with 1% droprate but got 100% droprate for cheater and anger for non cheaters.

Even though salvage droprate sucked balls the event on itself was the best ever done, way to learn from the past.

[Demon6324236]

The problem is there rarely is any fun to be had later. You're not sacrificing fun now for fun later. You're sacrificing fun for gear that only helps you do the stuff that you were just doing a little bit faster.

The problem with MMORPG developers, and SE in particular, is they tend to forget the G on the end and what it is supposed to mean. Nyzul 2.0 is a ridiculously glaring example of that, and they refuse to comprehend it.

Eh, I find it fun to get my new gear and go kick more ass with it than I did without it, the way you make it sound I wonder why any of us play this O.o?

[Helel]

The reason is the wait time I would think. Pil, Kaggen, these can be done as many times as you want so long as you have the people, where as Nyzul is only so long as you have tags which is at most 4 times in a single day. And SCHs only go so far, you still have to cap Enhancing magic, and work for the gear to get higher Enhancing magic. SCH is the easist of these jobs but still not a cake walk. I think its foolish an event is only able to be done effectivly with a certain setup, I would rather goto the idea of being able to play what I like and still be able to get what I want.

So far as people not trying to be the best they can be, I plan to make myself the best RDM possible, but even so, that changes nothing of the fact that other jobs I have leveled will never be worked on as much, your main is your main, chances are its where your heart lies and where you will spend most of your work and time to build upon. I am all for making myself a kick ass PLD since I already have some good gear for it and Emp/Relic swords, but it doesnt mean I plan to be a great or best possible PLD, its not my main. With VW/NNI gear you can be a highly effective DD, but all the same if its your main your more likely to put more work into it and push it to its limits.

#1 you don't need 500+ enhancing magic to win nyzul.
#2 not hard to cap enhancing magic if you really wanted to. The "work," as you say, is minimal.
#3 the actual function of SCH in nyzul is menial. I would know because I use my mule as one of the SCHs... He just stands there.

[Fupafighter]

And thus we reach what's perhaps the most fundamental flaw of FFXI and perhaps MMORPGs in general. In order to truly succeed, fun must be sacrificed.

Of course I see Fupa is one of those, like many I used to see in ye olde HNM days, who'd tell others to level a certain job when they themselves would never do so. His SCH? Level 0.
I have war sam drg. They can all be used for neo nyzle. And I have a sch mule. Sooooooooo........

[wish12oz]

Or the one where you where you randomly started going on about how bad ninja was for no apparent reason when no one even brought ninja up, and then proclaimed that dancer was amazing in NI2.0?

Ninja is terrible, and I dont recall ever supporting DNC for... anything. Except maybe saying it was better than NIN. Making baseless claims against someone and taking old quotes out of context is not good either. Those comments were made by me, before the announcement of the stopper, when Nyzul was almost entirely luck based. Without the stopper even if you cleared 25 floors, your chance of hitting 100 was like 5%. It is no longer luck based, if you get competent people together to do the event with, you WILL win a lot, and you will be able to get all the gear.

[Camiie]

Eh, I find it fun to get my new gear and go kick more ass with it than I did without it, the way you make it sound I wonder why any of us play this O.o?

You got the point I was going for. If this is the way SE is going to make things, then serious reevaluation of how many of us spend our free time is in order.


I have war sam drg. They can all be used for neo nyzle. And I have a sch mule. Sooooooooo........

The point is, don't ask of anyone else what you're unwilling to do yourself.

[Fupafighter]

You got the point I was going for. If this is the way SE is going to make things, then serious reevaluation of how many of us spend our free time is in order.



The point is, don't ask of anyone else what you're unwilling to do yourself.

I have sch, so right now you just sound like a moron lol. I would level sch no doubt if it was the only way to get what I wanted. Did cor thf and war all for the same reasons, because they are useful. I have a sch mule if you didn't read it last time. Why would I gear sch on this account?.....

[MarkovChain]

And I have a sch mule. Sooooooooo........

So .. you cheat through dualboxing ¿ Back to start.

[Fupafighter]

So .. you cheat through dualboxing ¿ Back to start.
How is that cheating lol? It simply means I don't have to sit around waiting for a whm to help me.
That's like me saying embrava PD is cheating. I'm not breaking any rules.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So .. you cheat through dualboxing ¿ Back to start.

That is NOT cheating.

[Zerich]

So .. you cheat through dualboxing ¿ Back to start.

stop being a gimp? idk.

[Camiie]

I have sch, so right now you just sound like a moron lol.

So, it's normally the more intelligent people who start with the insults?


I would level sch no doubt if it was the only way to get what I wanted.

That's why I leveled BRD back in the day. Huge mistake. I got the stuff I wanted for the most part, and rarely if ever got to use it. In the process of getting what I wanted I wasn't all that happy. Yeah that worked out real good.


Did cor thf and war all for the same reasons, because they are useful. I have a sch mule if you didn't read it last time.

Yeah, why would you when you can tell everyone else they should level it so you don't have to. That's usually how it was in the HNM days.

Maybe you did level that SCH mule, but I have my suspicions. Most people I know with mage mules inherited or adopted them from someone else. If so, you still haven't followed your own advice and leveled it yourself. You're having loads of fun on your DD job while someone else has to pull mage duty and if they can't you can grudgingly pull out the mule.


Why would I gear sch on this account?.....

What if it was the only way to get what you wanted?

[Demon6324236]

#1 you don't need 500+ enhancing magic to win nyzul.
#2 not hard to cap enhancing magic if you really wanted to. The "work," as you say, is minimal.
#3 the actual function of SCH in nyzul is menial. I would know because I use my mule as one of the SCHs... He just stands there.

1:You don't need 500+ Skill no, but also you don't need gear to hit 400 which is the next lower major benchmark... Naked SCH has 404 with Light Arts (which you should be having at almost all times because nuking in this event is minor/worthless) 420 with merits, and you need +2 hands to cap effectiveness, so bar hands, you can be naked and still do well capped...
2:Capping no skill is hard, only time taking, which was my point, it takes time and effort to do unless you bot it, which is cheating, which is what we are trying to avoid using to win.
3:My setup we always have 1 SCH at the start and 1 that moves around with the DDs healing & buffing them with Regen/Adlo/Phalanx/Haste, having 1 at the start is great but other should work, as such there is no reason for both of them standing around, the other should be doing something, you only have experience of SCH from a mule. No one will ask you as a mule to go around and buff everyone while keeping HP up as well when the other SCH can do that, unless you have both stand at the start in which case... theres something wrong.

[Fupafighter]

So, it's normally the more intelligent people who start with the insults?



That's why I leveled BRD back in the day. Huge mistake. I got the stuff I wanted for the most part, and rarely if ever got to use it. In the process of getting what I wanted I wasn't all that happy. Yeah that worked out real good.



Yeah, why would you when you can tell everyone else they should level it so you don't have to. That's usually how it was in the HNM days.

Maybe you did level that SCH mule, but I have my suspicions. Most people I know with mage mules inherited or adopted them from someone else. If so, you still haven't followed your own advice and leveled it yourself. You're having loads of fun on your DD job while someone else has to pull mage duty and if they can't you can grudgingly pull out the mule.



What if it was the only way to get what you wanted?

Because I simply couldn't abyssea burn my sch up. It's not that hard to make a mule. Your just out to try to make me sound bad lol. Are you seriously trying to tell me I am a liar and that I am not willing or capable of making a mule? I'm done talking to you. Adapt if you want reward. If you don't enjoy it, quit.

[Demon6324236]

Because I simply couldn't abyssea burn my sch up. It's not that hard to make a mule. Your just out to try to make me sound bad lol. Are you seriously trying to tell me I am a liar and that I am not willing or capable of making a mule? I'm done talking to you. Adapt if you want reward. If you don't enjoy it, quit.

Stupid thing to say, running from a problem does not fix said problem, it simply avoids it. We all enjoy FFXI in some way or we would not play it, quiting does not do anything for us in this case. SE fixing what is broken lets us stay, lets them make more money, and lets the game be better than it is limited to due to flaws. If you want to quit when an event kicks your ass you go ahead, I think Ill stay and try to make the game better using the forums that are meant for player feedback.

[Fupafighter]

I meant quit the game if you dont find joy in it. I would still be playing duty if i found joy in it. I'm not gonna wait for things to change that could make it fun again. He talks about lvling brd and being forced onto the job too often and never getting to use the gear that he set out and earned. He has choices. He just doesn't enjoy them. That's ffxi. There would be no skill involved if every job benefited an event the same way. Nor strategy, which is ffxi.

[Camiie]

I meant quit the game if you dont find joy in it.

There is some, but it doesn't come from new events. That's the problem. There's still a few things here and there to dig around for in old stuff, and I have friends who returned that need help. Legion, VW, and Neo-Nyzul are just not appealing to me. Once my friends are where they want to be and I've tied up those few loose ends there's nothing for me. I'm not the only one in that boat. There could be something for everyone if they'd listen to us, but they refuse.

They only care about pleasing themselves and you and those like you (no I don't mean that as an insult). That's why you don't see a problem. It's good for you, so it's good. If I thought the game were only good for me at the expense of you, I'd think that was a problem, but you don't really see it that way.


I would still be playing duty if i found joy in it. I'm not gonna wait for things to change that could make it fun again. He talks about lvling brd and being forced onto the job too often and never getting to use the gear that he set out and earned. He has choices. He just doesn't enjoy them. That's ffxi. There would be no skill involved if every job benefited an event the same way. Nor strategy, which is ffxi.

I never said every job had to benefit an event the same way. Obviously a WHM and a WAR shouldn't be interchangeable. I know you think I'm a moron, but I'm not nearly that stupid. There should be much more balance, but not the SE kind, in what jobs can effectively succeed in a given event. There does need to be SOME homogenization between jobs that share the same primary role. What SE, and many players don't seem to get is that one can take different "paths" to reach the same goal. Two jobs could achieve the same result in very different ways.

My problems with BRD were a combination of LS politics (some people not required to level a non-DD while others couldn't join without one), the sheer OP nature of BRD, and human nature/player attitudes. I'm just saying I'm not willing to fall into the same trap again, and I'm also not going to try and tell anyone to make the same mistake I did. If you want to tell others to bite the bullet and level a job they're going to hate to get loot then fine as long as you will do the same. You say you have so fine.

The real issue though is that events shouldn't be SO specific that there aren't multiple ways to win with different job combos. No, I don't mean 6 SAMs. I do think more healers, support and tanks (wherever that concept still exists) should be interchangeable. IF one cannot ever possibly get to a floor 100 without a SCH, for example (not saying it's the truth), then that is a problem in my eyes. If one cannot possibly beat Legion without Perfect Defense then as much as I like SMN, that also is a problem. It's great that that's a strategy, but it shouldn't be the only one.

/shrug Just the late-night musings of a moron I guess.

[Aldersyde]

1. If you have whm rdm and blm, you should seriously have most of the gear for enhancing magic, and sch should already be level 49. 2. If you don't have the enhancing magic or the gear, go get it? That's already telling me you shouldn't be in the event with low uncapped skills. Noone is forcing you to do this event.

Why did you quote everything i wrote? It's obvious you didn't read any of it.

[MarkovChain]

How is that cheating lol? It simply means I don't have to sit around waiting for a whm to help me.
That's like me saying embrava PD is cheating. I'm not breaking any rules.

Obiviously it is if you play on a single computer. How do I know ? Because all the abyssea growned gimps like you did it (probably monk and whm). Come to think of it, in abyssea windower was THE cool thing to have so the more I think about it the less I think they are going to do anything to Nyzul. Voidwatch/nyzul/legion proves that they have no clue.

Personnally I'm quitting when I have my 250 marrows because past that I'm not sure where the fun is.

[Llana_Virren]

Obiviously it is if you play on a single computer. How do I know ? Because all the abyssea growned gimps like you did it (probably monk and whm). Come to think of it, in abyssea windower was THE cool thing to have so the more I think about it the less I think they are going to do anything to Nyzul. Voidwatch/nyzul/legion proves that they have no clue.

Personnally I'm quitting when I have my 250 marrows because past that I'm not sure where the fun is.



I dual box all the time. It's called having a laptop and a PC. Don't assume that those that dualbox are using multi-instance tricks on PC <.<

A buddy of mine would on occassion trio-box when trying to get a second char something, by using PC, laptop, and 360.

People need to be more understanding about what "cheating" actually is.

[Gokku]

cheat
 
verb (used with object)
1.
to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance.
2.
to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero.
3.
to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide.
verb (used without object)
4.
to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets.
5.
to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.
6.
to take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers.
7.
Informal. to be sexually unfaithful (often followed by on): Her husband knew she had been cheating all along. He cheated on his wife.

Cheatting on the Offical forums :

1. Using macros / gear swaps
2. having an opinion
3. playing on pc in any fashon
4. using more then one account and or having a mule to dual box

Troll

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4] The noun troll may refer to the provocative message itself, as in: "That was an excellent troll you posted."

Trolling on the offical Forums :
1. posting anything worth a dame
2. having an educated view
3. disagreeing with ANYONE
4. playing on PC
5. inferring in any sort of way that someone and or by default the statements they make are uneducated.

welcome to the Official forums were everyone but ps2/360 users are cheating trolls who have no idea how to play this game like real players and if you use gear swaps or haste gear your a bad player and ruin the game for everyone.

[Llana_Virren]

Good stuff.

Did you know, almost 9 years ago, when a certain program called Windower was nothing but an idea, there was general consensus among PC players that console players had a clear and unfair advantage?

You see, back in those days... the dark times, you could only play FFXI in full-screen mode. This meant that I needed a second computer/laptop in order to use the internet while playing FFXI. My PS2-playing counterparts didn't have this issue.

I find the distrust these Official Forums PS2/360 members display very curious. Of course, I was riding the "kill PS2 before it kills FFXI" bandwagon a few years ago. Maybe if we stopped supporting that crap, we could have gotten a GUI overhaul 3+ years ago. Or more macro lines. Or just less of these crazy, overly distrusting console players.

Either way, I'm a lying, cheating fraud for playing on PC; while dual-boxing on my laptop; while watching a movie on the TV; and while microwaving my snack for a pre-LS event tummy stuffer.

[Zerich]

Obiviously it is if you play on a single computer. How do I know ? Because all the abyssea growned gimps like you did it (probably monk and whm). Come to think of it, in abyssea windower was THE cool thing to have so the more I think about it the less I think they are going to do anything to Nyzul. Voidwatch/nyzul/legion proves that they have no clue.

Personnally I'm quitting when I have my 250 marrows because past that I'm not sure where the fun is.

getting 250 marrows is fun?
fun...
fun

[Gokku]

Did you know, almost 9 years ago, when a certain program called Windower was nothing but an idea, there was general consensus among PC players that console players had a clear and unfair advantage?

You see, back in those days... the dark times, you could only play FFXI in full-screen mode. This meant that I needed a second computer/laptop in order to use the internet while playing FFXI. My PS2-playing counterparts didn't have this issue.

I find the distrust these Official Forums PS2/360 members display very curious. Of course, I was riding the "kill PS2 before it kills FFXI" bandwagon a few years ago. Maybe if we stopped supporting that crap, we could have gotten a GUI overhaul 3+ years ago. Or more macro lines. Or just less of these crazy, overly distrusting console players.

Either way, I'm a lying, cheating fraud for playing on PC; while dual-boxing on my laptop; while watching a movie on the TV; and while microwaving my snack for a pre-LS event tummy stuffer.

psht you call that old school i used to live in japan , on ps2 i could out claim people since mob would spawn on my screen a full 10-20 secs before even loading on PC users screens, PS2 was the OG claim bot back in the day.

[Llana_Virren]

psht you call that old school i used to live in japan , on ps2 i could out claim people since mob would spawn on my screen a full 10-20 secs before even loading on PC users screens, PS2 was the OG claim bot back in the day.

I was in Korea back in 2002-2005 when I started FFXI ahead of NA. I'm in Japan now. ^^
Those damned console players always cheated!

[Demon6324236]

getting 250 marrows is fun?
fun...
fun

I know what you mean, tbh I would quit the game before wasting my time on afterglow, its stupid...

[FrankReynolds]

ITT: gear 2 characters and play one on a console and one on a PC at the same time with your 4 thumbs or you are not playing the game right. I'm too good to need a mule... if you don't level a mule your not good. Whatever you list on FFXIAH is your only job evar. I am super good and have 5 relics despite what it says on FFXIAH.

LOL

[MarkovChain]

Cheatting on the Offical forums :

1. Using macros / gear swaps
2. having an opinion
3. playing on pc in any fashon
4. using more then one account and or having a mule to dual box



Not sure where you've read that, I think you are trying too hard to look cool to BG readers TBH. It has been clearly explained what cheating we are talking about, and it's not "using a PC" or "using a macro".

Also it's funny to see you talking about trolls around here seeing as you report every single thread where people disagree with you to the fail players that troll "media" @ BG.

[Demon6324236]

Not sure where you've read that, I think you are trying too hard to look cool to BG readers TBH. It has been clearly explained what cheating we are talking about, and it's not "using a PC" or "using a macro".

Also it's funny to see you talking about trolls around here seeing as you report every single thread where people disagree with you to the fail players that troll "media" @ BG.

We have had 1 person say over and over to make PC only servers and kill the game -_- I think thats where this remark comes from, not hard to use the things people have said in here in sarcasm being how stupid some of it is...

[Gokku]

Not sure where you've read that, I think you are trying too hard to look cool to BG readers TBH. It has been clearly explained what cheating we are talking about, and it's not "using a PC" or "using a macro".

Also it's funny to see you talking about trolls around here seeing as you report every single thread where people disagree with you to the fail players that troll "media" @ BG.

so you dont remeber the many threads in general months ago bitching about macros and gear swaps? and as pointed out you must have missed the tinfoiled hat PCS MUST GO! in this thread also. and im sorry to inform you but i spend most my time posting in none ffxi sections of BG , mostly D3 hardcore and the movies/tv sections. i know you would love to be right in your baseless assumptions of me but alas you are not.

the post was a sarcastic post steming simply from people tossing the terms troll and cheat out when ever someone disagrees with them. same goes for "U MAD" , were as any post against someone else is tossed, though a proper application would be posting anything starcad rants about because that is "U MAD".

[wish12oz]

This conversation again?

Easiest way to play 2 FFXI's is to partition your harddrive, install FFXI on both partitions, and play a the game off each one on one PC.

[user201108211515]

Ok then how about this. Console only servers. Not even manditory to move there just optional. I know many people would want to move if it was an option.

[Demon6324236]

Ok then how about this. Console only servers. Not even manditory to move there just optional. I know many people would want to move if it was an option.

To make optional servers that allow only certain platforms would work, but it again suffers many of the same problems, SE would have to change the lay out of servers in general. As it is now if you are on 360, you can go over to a PC and log in to your character all the same, for the server change you have to get on a PC log into your account on the site and choose a server. They would need to change it so you can only play certain characters on certain platforms if they are on certain servers. You also still have the player shortage problem, I highly doubt that you would be able to get 2000~3000+ people who want to leave part of the player base due to their platform in favor of what would probably be a smaller server.

I wouldnt object to optional servers, that would be fine so long as they did it right but I still dont see it happening, part of this goes back to my FFXIV assumption as well, if they are not giving Xbox the game because Microsoft will not let them conect the game to PC & PS3 servers than the flaw remains. SE would be unwilling to see the player base divided via platform and as such would refuse this idea as much as just giving Xbox players FFXIV even though they do not get to play with the other platforms players as well.

Just thinking for the future though, we have already seen people ask for PS2 to be dropped because of graphics and content and "PS2 limitations" all that blah blah, probably wouldn't be long till Xbox players want the PS2 to have its own server for the Xbox to get better graphics or some such. Just seems like it would/could happen with this community's past, even now we cant agree on things as shown by this thread in its entirety. At that point I will say no matter what the servers would likely die if for no reason other than I'm sure that at least 50% of this games community is probably PC for the fact its the only platform the game is made for and the fact of Windower and its infinite macro space. PS2 players make up probably at most 10~15% due to the consoles age. All in all it seems like the server would be to limited, and everyone will never be happy all the time, only some of the people will be happy some of the time, in this case your unhappy, but if the majority of the game disagrees then you will probably not get your wishes. Funny thing is the test server seems to be 1~30 people at most at any time I'm on it, but they expect us to test content worthy of 18~36 people... so I will not go so far as to say SE will not make the server if only for a small number of people because they have already done it.

Summery:Optional? Ok, might work, still don't see it happening but if you get your way so be it, I'm sure most people wont mind because they will not lose their friends or ls-mates probably.

[user201108211515]

Its not about what SE wants. Its about what the real players want. 8 years of feeling cheated of my time. If SE cant stop people from cheating... Then a console only server shouldnt be asking too much.

Now all I have to do is spread the word and get other people to complain and ask SE for this soloution.

[Llana_Virren]

Its not about what SE wants.

Keep telling yourself that.

On a side note: what's the problem with consoles and PCs playing on the same servers again? Other than the failed console support, which will still be a problem on a console-only server because SE will not pay them enough attention... but other than that?

[Demon6324236]

Its not about what SE wants. Its about what the real players want.

Are you talking about FFXI still? Sorry, think you must be talking about a different game, SE seems to ignore players 90% of the time or more especially when the players are asking for something SE doesn't want to do. Like macros, or VW drops, or NNI, or new (new does not mean revised or remade!) content. Just saying, if you get SE to change their ways then I give you credit you did something I thought not possible, at best I would expect them to say you can just ignore other players who you don't like and use /blacklist. Past that I guess good luck with that, because chances are slim at best I think.

[FrankReynolds]

Are you talking about FFXI still? Sorry, think you must be talking about a different game, SE seems to ignore players 90% of the time or more especially when the players are asking for something SE doesn't want to do. Like macros, or VW drops, or NNI, or new (new does not mean revised or remade!) content. Just saying, if you get SE to change their ways then I give you credit you did something I thought not possible, at best I would expect them to say you can just ignore other players who you don't like and use /blacklist. Past that I guess good luck with that, because chances are slim at best I think.

Shhh.... lets get behind this idea. That way they can put all the PS2 people on their own little island and start making some serious upgrades to the PC version. :P

[Rezeak]

I'm getting close to 2 full sets and you don't need to cheat to clear but if you get unlucky on Order or Same time lamps you are done/run over w/e

Well order is auto fail most of the time anyway cause of the recast on lamps.

Either way this content is designed in an elitist way and imo it sucks for most of the community

Atm to hit consistently (1 in 2-5 runs) 100 you need 2 X SCH and 4 GOOD DDs and all know what there doing (aka done nyzle before amd SCH know how to put out embrava and AoE Regen V FAST)

The issue really is this...

If you have a perfect group you'll get the gear very fast (for what it is)

then if you have a less than perfect group can get to floor 80 consistently then you'll take 25 X longer than the perfect group

Then for ya average pick up group your prolly looks at 100x longer vs a perfect group

If ya refuse to lvl SCH or gear out a great DD then you'll prolly never get there outside of a group carrying you.

Either way Nyzle isle could be fixed in 2 simple steps.

1. Order floors removed and Same time lamps never turn off so just hit as you pass em

2. Astrums should be more rewarding for floors 20-80 and u should be able to upgrade since only 80/100 gear is worth going for.

like
2 20 Asts -> 1 40 Ast
2 40 Asts -> 1 60 Ast
2 60 Asts -> 1 80 Ast
3-5 80 Asts -> 1 100 Asts

and you should be able to trade 1 ast for gear depending what floor you got it from.

Btw imo SE made it like this and will make it easier slowly so that Nyzle isn't spammed by everyone and there mom or there windows 3.1/Dos servers crash cause they can never handle instances lol.

[Raksha]

This conversation again?

Easiest way to play 2 FFXI's is to partition your harddrive, install FFXI on both partitions, and play a the game off each one on one PC.

Actually the easiest way would be to only install FFXI once and just use two windower sessions.

[Demon6324236]

Shhh.... lets get behind this idea. That way they can put all the PS2 people on their own little island and start making some serious upgrades to the PC version. :P

They are updating the UI for PC only and leaving Xbox & PS2 behind if I remember correctly. So really no need to leave anyone out if they are willing to do this kind of thing now. I will however never support a forced removal of people from certain consoles, I have many friends & ls-mates from PC & Xbox who I would like to keep here, forced movings would still hurt the game as a whole in many ways. Tho I'm sure you were joking I still figure might as well give a serious reply to speak my point of view :P

[user201108211515]

May be if console players hadnt spent 8ish years being cheated at things like HNM... We would have alot more console players still on the game. No one likes to play a game they have no chance at cauz people are cheating. It could be a way for SE to get console players back into the game.

[user201108211515]

Keep telling yourself that.

On a side note: what's the problem with consoles and PCs playing on the same servers again? Other than the failed console support, which will still be a problem on a console-only server because SE will not pay them enough attention... but other than that?

If enough people complain then SE will change the game. The have done it many times already.

MPK nerf. they changed the fishing system(even though it didnt do much to stop bots). HNM was eventually changed. People complained about salvage dupers for a year before we finally saw any action on that. So yea keep thinkn you are unable to influence them in any way. Its the players that dictate what happens in game. May be if people complained about the "problems" they have instead of just geting a bot to solve only thier "problems" SE would have had to make those changes by now. They made a windower but if that wasnt enough people should say so.

SE wont do anything if people dont complain that is for sure.

[Demon6324236]

If enough people complain then SE will change the game. The have done it many times already.

MPK nerf. they changed the fishing system(even though it didnt do much to stop bots). HNM was eventually changed. People complained about salvage dupers for a year before we finally saw any action on that. So yea keep thinkn you are unable to influence them in any way. Its the players that dictate what happens in game. May be if people complained about the "problems" they have instead of just geting a bot to solve only thier "problems" SE would have had to make those changes by now. They made a windower but if that wasnt enough people should say so.

SE wont do anything if people dont complain that is for sure.

Your right, they changed some things, still no changes to macros, VW, NNI, and many more current things, I don't think I should have to wait years for fixes. By the time they fix things they become irrelevant, like HNMs, they are fixed but now they are mostly pointless other than Black Belt imo because many things they drop are out of date. So by the way things seem to mainly get fixed to me, you will get your PS2/Xbox servers the week before they discontinue PS2/Xbox FFXI support. Banning Salvage people took a year, so we should just sit back a year and wait while others progress? No, but it appears it must be done.

Mainly SE will change what they think is broken, 90% of the player base complains about, GMs are called on, things that are against the ToS and the like. Changing to what players want isn't something they seem to do much. MPK was the player base complaining, GMs, and SE seeing they made the game flawed to allow the death of many players that should not have been allowed. Fishing was SE knowing it was broken & ToS, ToS mainly but SE knew what was broken letting them get by the ToS, and then in trying to fix it they basically got nothing done. HNM was not changed till after the time the rewards were no longer truly worth the old effort needed, as such it was changed. Salvage people were banned for cheating, but as you said, it took a year, and apparently alot of bitching, to make them fix it... I wont say SE does nothing or they ignore the players, but they don't often do things they don't want to do themselves, we are in their world they created and we have to deal with what we are given, not to say they don't give us what we want time to time, but I think its because either we wont shut the hell up or because they agree.

As for watching people cheat for years, not that I know from experience but it seems from what people say that there was a time PS2 & Xbox had unfair advantages, PC had to deal with it at the time I guess, but that wasn't even from 3rd party, it had to have been game design. To say your being cheated is one thing, to complain about it is ok, but to say you want to remove every possible cheater from the game and you think SE will do it when they have many things they refuse to change is crazy. Many things in this game are broken and they tell us they wont fix it or they have no plans to, like... Enmity... something that is gone, destroyed, broken, and holds no use, but they don't want to fix it. There are even a few jobs like PLD & THF built on that system alone with little else and yet they still refuse! If anything why don't you complain PC gets new UI and consoles don't? Thats unfair too isn't it? I mean PC will have another advantage, maybe you consider that cheating because its something you don't get but PC does, making it more accessible and easier.

Arguing with you is hopeless, you just keep saying how it would be better with the servers split so you can play with a few small groups, but you don't understand the idea of what your asking for in the end I think. I doubt you will get enough people on a server with limited players to actually make it work, AH, Bazaars, partys, VW, Legion, so many things would be impossible due to lack of people or lack of interest and would make it worthless, effectively killing half the games features by itself. All new content coming out is group oriented, mainly large groups(VW) or small well refined skilled groups(NNI) but on the server you speak of it would be impossible to get people you need for it together and work on them because not everyone wants to do the same thing and not enough people would be around to do everything.

[user201108211515]

ugh this is why I blocked your posts you talk alot but dont say much. Thats all your oppinion and your can think what you want but to say my idea wouldnt work just cauz you say. Much like you demand the fixes even if you have to use a bot.. just cauz you say.. Its not about you or me its about what is right. It isnt right that honest people are forced to play with people that cheat. period end of conversation. Nothing you or anyone can say will change the fact that cheating, at a kids game no less. Is wrong. And its a slap in the face to charge people for a broken game. So have fun posting pointless essays of what you think but I dont need 3 paragraphs to know what is right and what is wrong.

By your thinking. I should find a bot that causes other people that bot to lag or freeze up. Since its an aspect of the game I dont like and I'm too impatient for SE to do the right thing. If you have ever been on XBL you should know that people have the power to drop you from the games. reseting your router and what not. So is that what you would have me do. Fight fire with fire? Hax to stop hacks? When will it end? Or should I do the right thing. Play by the rules. Voice my complaints. And hope that majority will rule in the form of other players complaining as well.

Seriously done talkn to you.

[Demon6324236]

ugh this is why I blocked your posts you talk alot but dont say much. Thats all your oppinion and your can think what you want but to say my idea wouldnt work just cauz you say. Much like you demand the fixes even if you have to use a bot.. just cauz you say.. Its not about you or me its about what is right. It isnt right that honest people are forced to play with people that cheat. period end of conversation. Nothing you or anyone can say will change the fact that cheating, at a kids game no less. Is wrong. And its a slap in the face to charge people for a broken game. So have fun posting pointless essays of what you think but I dont need 3 paragraphs to know what is right and what is wrong.

By your thinking. I should find a bot that causes other people that bot to lag or freeze up. Since its an aspect of the game I dont like and I'm too impatient for SE to do the right thing. If you have ever been on XBL you should know that people have the power to drop you from the games. reseting your router and what not. So is that what you would have me do. Fight fire with fire? Hax to stop hacks? When will it end? Or should I do the right thing. Play by the rules. Voice my complaints. And hope that majority will rule in the form of other players complaining as well.

Seriously done talkn to you.

What I'm saying is your asking for something unrealistic that SE will likely not actually let happen because it goes against their past, you just ignore me and put your fingers in your ears till you see my mouth stop moving then call me stupid and put words in my mouth. I never said for you to cheat, or cheat to beat cheaters. What I said is you ask for a small server with small amounts of people which this game is a MMO, MMOs are built with large player bases in mind. Your small world would not work because of the heavy need for many people. When you can get 100 people to say in this forum that they would do it, you might have something, till then no. I will not believe enough people would be willing to cut themselves away from 50%~90% of players just for that.

[Llana_Virren]

May be if console players hadnt spent 8ish years being cheated at things like HNM... We would have alot more console players still on the game. No one likes to play a game they have no chance at cauz people are cheating. It could be a way for SE to get console players back into the game.

For quite a while console players had a fiew advantages over PC players, to include faster loading zones/mobs, and being able to use the computer while playing. It took over a year of Windower becoming more and more popular before SE finally allowed FFXI to operate in a windowed mode. Another 8 years after that before the idea of overhauling a dated GUI to be of any use.

Console players do not need their own server, they need to stop playing on the PS2. XBox players I have no issue with, really, except that I understand certain zones force them to d/c, but at least the 360 is a newer system and should get support. PS2 is so antequated it is laughable that anyone still plays FFXI on it. I say laughable, but really it's sad.

This thread is titled "NEO Nyzul 2.0" yet it has become nothing but a whirlpool of "QQ, my PS2 can't handle things that were designed years after it was released." Consoles cannot upgrade, PCs can. Upgrades to a game like FFXI (or any MMO) are necessary to maintain player interest. If within the time span of 10 years you haven't managed to get FFXI for your PC or 360, you shouldn't even have access to new content, let alone d/c when you're in those areas. ToAU areas clearly suffered in appearance due to console graphics rendering. Any new content has to be dumbed down to PS2-capabilities.


In summary:

Kill the console support before the forums are overrun with more "I'm having this issue with FFXI. Critical bug!" and it turns out the guy plays on PS2.... Playstation2 is the issue.

360 players: you're cool, even though SE apparently hates you.

[Arcon]

They made a windower but if that wasnt enough people should say so.

People are saying so. Are you blind? Pretty much the entire forum is filled with complaints about things people want to have fixed, including many things that Windower has already fixed (like the macro system). That is because no one wants to cheat. People do it because the game is lacking some seriously commonplace features. I don't know a single person who wouldn't love if it SE made Windower obsolete. However, not by powerbanning everyone who has ever used it, but instead incorporate the useful features into their own game.


SE wont do anything if people dont complain that is for sure.

And no one (except you) is complaining about this particular issue, because there is a lot of actually important stuff to be done. This ranks just below fixing beetles' feet. No one is hurt by this other than your ego. You hate not being able to do what "the cheaters" can, so you lash out and call them names and want them gone from "your game", even though they're not harming you in any way. And you completely disregard that your solution is entirely ridiculous and would never work. Why do you think SE is merging servers all the time? Because the playerbase is declining. Do you really wanna put the five remaining PS2 users on one server and watch them play a game with no parties, no economy, no crafting and no events that cannot be 2boxed? And if yes (proving you're entirely insane), do you really think SE would go for that? They'd kill the PS2 completely before it ever came to this. Which wouldn't be a bad thing in the first place.

Thankfully, no one listens to you, especially not SE.

[Dragoy]

I never meant to imply it that way. To rephrase it, let's call it the "harmless kind". The kind that doesn't alter the gameplay experience and that doesn't interact with other people in a negative way.

Arguably it could still be good for SE, because I'm sure that without some of these tools, quite a few people would not be playing their game anymore.

Yeah, I figured later on. I just thought about it a bit wrong way.
Unfortunately, I have to again agree on the latter part as well...


seriously.. a "rep" posts here but sayn not 1 word about people cheating... or about the people admiting to cheating in this thread. This is a complete joke. Way to have 0 intergrity SE. Way to let people know its ok to cheat.

They are the Community Representatives indeed. That is to say, they are not the Special Task Force (Unit), forum Moderators, nor Gamemasters, so it's basically their job not to take part of rule enforcing (in-game or in-forum). ^^;

Or in other words: the work of a “rep” it is not.


That being said, I don't think the cheating is a problem with this event, but the event itself. Cheating is a whole another matter, and has always been an issue, and should of course be tackled with the honest player's best interests in mind. Meaning rather than adjust the event for the cheaters, adjust it for the 'clean', honest players, and thus for everyone else.

In case it has not been said enough yet: random and luck does not fun and challenge make.

Adjustments to them lamps would surely be an improvement. Almost anything done about those should make it better, but there is so much more that could be done with this event; make it really new.

But I digress...

[Alistaire]

People in this thread really need to learn the difference between "impossible" and "improbable".

And people should figure out that something with gear like this wasn't necessarily designed to be beaten on an "average" run.

A couple of improvements that could be done would be making the lobby like Legion and not count to the 30 minutes, and/or adding occasional time extensions via the blue chests that already drop there.

Neither of those solves the problem that they would just help flee hackers earn even more gil selling items.

[Alistaire]

If enough people complain then SE will change the game. The have done it many times already.

MPK nerf. they changed the fishing system(even though it didnt do much to stop bots). HNM was eventually changed.People complained about salvage dupers for a year before we finally saw any action on that. So yea keep thinkn you are unable to influence them in any way. Its the players that dictate what happens in game. May be if people complained about the "problems" they have instead of just geting a bot to solve only thier "problems" SE would have had to make those changes by now. They made a windower but if that wasnt enough people should say so.

SE wont do anything if people dont complain that is for sure.

Got a good laugh at that considering the change to kings made Black Belt about 10-20 times harder to get and time consuming in doing it.

[user201108211515]

you can get BB in a day.. no idea how you think its harder now. Before you had 0.001% chance to claim unless your in the bot LS. So yea I read all the nonsence and excuses and I dont care. No one that isnt cheating. Would play with cheaters, if they didnt have to. Its just common sence. Not even going to reply to the trolls anymore just blocking people now. The only people I'm interisted in talking to are people that dont cheat. Still cant beleive tpeople are posting here after admiting to cheating. Still cant beleive they think any excuse will make cheating at a kids game ok.

[Monchat]

Got a good laugh at that considering the change to kings made Black Belt about 10-20 times harder to get and time consuming in doing it.

you tried it? I recently finallydecided to get BB items for 2 MNK mules using seals, so i can get those extra 3 STR. The 3 KSNM99 can be easilly 2 manned or 3 manned with monks; MNK+WHM for Behemoth (magic defense gear), MNK+WHM+RDM for wyrm (chainspell thunder 4), MNK+WHM+SCH for turtle (Klaustra). Not to mention the poped NMs and their HQ are jokes compared to the ks99 mobs.

I pretty much went 1/3 for each items that i farmed twice for 2 mules. I even got a HQ behemoth and a HQ turtle. People tend to exagerate or extrapolate out of their crap luck. The drop rate from ks99 from experience and what people say is ~1/4 and the drop rate on HQ pop with TH12+ is ~1/5. Not to mention HQ pop can be bought lol (5-10M a pop is nothing by today's economy). I'd say BB is 10x easier to get now. I had to pay 15Mil back in the day which was 50+mil of today.

[Arcon]

you tried it? I recently finallydecided to get BB items for 2 MNK mules using seals, so i can get those extra 3 STR. The 3 KSNM99 can be easilly 2 manned or 3 manned with monks; MNK+WHM for Behemoth (magic defense gear), MNK+WHM+RDM for wyrm (chainspell thunder 4), MNK+WHM+SCH for turtle (Klaustra). Not to mention the poped NMs and their HQ are jokes compared to the ks99 mobs.

I pretty much went 1/3 for each items that i farmed twice for 2 mules. I even got a HQ behemoth and a HQ turtle. People tend to exagerate or extrapolate out of their crap luck. The drop rate from ks99 from experience and what people say is ~1/4 and the drop rate on HQ pop with TH12+ is ~1/5. Not to mention HQ pop can be bought lol (5-10M a pop is nothing by today's economy). I'd say BB is 10x easier to get now. I had to pay 15Mil back in the day which was 50+mil of today.

It's only easier to farm it because of the level increase. The drop rate is a lot worse and it costs a lot more if you wanna pay for it. They removed it completely from the NQ pool and reduced the drop rate from 100% drastically from the HQ.

You spout about people extrapolating from their bad luck, then you go and do the same with "your experience". The drop rate across KS99s is 1/5 (72/356 gathered from all the data on Wiki), meaning it would take 1500 KS on average to get it just from there, which is entirely unrealistic. I didn't get half that much KS in all my years playing this game. And one HQ pop, especially for Behemoth, will go for 8~10M, depending on the server. So either you waste all of your KS and possibly convert all your BS, KC and HKC in the process, or you spend about 100M popping enough HQ kings, or any linear combination of the two. Your best bet is still to wait for shouts and hope someone is actually doing KS99 for something else, so you can buy the drop off of them. And even these go for a lot more than what they used to, because everyone spent almost all their KS already and not many people are doing it at all anymore.

[Monchat]

HQ kings are 50% drop rate you know. I killed 4-5 Behemoth, 3 nidhogg and 2 aspid and got 4 items. It is still easier to get compared to the bullshit you had to go through at level 75. I "camped" 2 weeks in dragon aery to buy the beard from a LS willing to sell, and i got my egg after 3 weeks of camping ( and only managed to claim 2 NQ, eventually bought from the HQ). For people in LSes to get thier item it was even worse... You had to wait your turn... And ks99 plain sucked seing as everyone doing it were after BB item, since strider's and speed belt were extremely rare.

[Demon6324236]

MNK+WHM for Behemoth (magic defense gear)

BST can do this solo as well even, idk about the other 2 but I have seen many BSTs including myself solo the Behemoth.

[Dragoy]

psht you call that old school i used to live in japan , on ps2 i could out claim people since mob would spawn on my screen a full 10-20 secs before even loading on PC users screens, PS2 was the OG claim bot back in the day.

Surely nothing to do with the fact that them servers are located in Japan? ^^;
If you indeed mean that PC-users in Japan would have that 'lag', too, then I do find it peculiar indeed.


Ack! Now I reminded myself of 'camping' the Charybdis, or 'Chabit', as my friend called it.

Fun times with several Japanese (or rather people located near Japan) to compete with...

[Mittenz]

actually for the most part PS2 used to have a huge advantage of the mob loading faster on the system so your best claim bet was a ps2 and turbo controller. Up until they added the lockout timer that was a fairly reliable claim method. It had nothing to do with where you were, the PS2 was so dumbed down there was like no load time for models is my guess. Also as far as I can remember (its been a few years since there was 100's in aery for the dragon) the PS2 prioritized mob loading over players so there was no where is it I cant see it going on (at least I always saw it while so many others were scrambling trying to figure out where it was).

Though i think this is getting a little off the topic of neo nyzul and HNM and claiming arguements should probably make their way to the other blossoming thread as this is for nyzul.

[Llana_Virren]

As all of this relates to Nyzul Isle: Cheaters will cheat no matter what.

The issue is that (despite what your trademark trolls are telling you) Nyzul Isle 2.0 is broken; you are forced into a SCHx2, UberDDx4 configuration (with no exceptions), and assuming you do not use any "ninjitsu" you will not reach floor 100 in more than 2% of your trial runs, and your success on that floor even less.

Skill -must- compliment luck. As it stands, luck+ninjitsu > skill+luck, or luck+luck, or skill+ninjutsu. Anything that -requires- Embrava x2 is broken. Anything that counts lobby time against you is poorly configured, and anything that doesn't rewarded you per objective is poorly designed.

What could be changed?

1. Remove lobby time penalty. There is no reason for this penalty, especially since it is a non-optional part of the trial.

2. Pause time upon floor objective completion. Do not pause time on floor objective completion when conditions such as "do not aggro gears/do not kill gears/do not killl non-target monsters" are failed.

3. For "bonus objectives" completed (such as: Did not aggro/kill gears or non-target monsters): Grant bonus time.

4. For every status effect-inflicting floor, equate a bonus with a penalty, such as:
Subjobs Locked = JA timers reduced to 0.
Weaponskills Locked = Increase Movement Speed
Job abilities Locked = Increase Magic damage and Regain effect

5. On Boss floors (20/40/60/80) that are below the maximum floor selected (ie. Floor 20 for 40/60/80/100 caps; Floor 80 on Floor 100 caps only; never on Floor 100) grant a random amount of bonus time from 10-60 seconds upon completion, based on hidden factors (such as having the minimum cumulative amount of damage dealt by player with killing blow, or something else that makes things interesting and challenging to trigger).

As of right now, the only incentive is to kill quickly, damned the consequences, skillcraft is meaningless. This is why Nyzul Isle 2.0 will continue to be a cheaters' paradise: there are no incentives for players to not cheat or to put in an honest effort.

[Fupafighter]

Yes you can do just fine without cheats. Ever hear of powder boots? Buy 10 pairs of them and rotate fulltime them. Flee at the start of every floor needed for the cost of 3% haste sounds worth it to me. And yes mediocre groups shouldn't be clearing this content. Look at the gear, it's a step up from the best gear in the game. Why should some +1 dark be able to get it?........

[Demon6324236]

Yes you can do just fine without cheats. Ever hear of powder boots? Buy 10 pairs of them and rotate fulltime them. Flee at the start of every floor needed for the cost of 3% haste sounds worth it to me. And yes mediocre groups shouldn't be clearing this content. Look at the gear, it's a step up from the best gear in the game. Why should some +1 dark be able to get it?........

Because it should not be super exclusive at this point in this game, everything else has moved to a much more fast paced & open game but this is just a once a day grind of luck to hope you don't get screwed. A +1 DRK can get this gear I'm sure with his other 3 +1 HDD friends and 2 SCHs if they get lucky enough on jumps to get 8~9 a jump. Same time the best people on the game could go in and try and get 2~4 jumps and get nothing. Luck is bad and detrimental. To say its possible is a duh, to say its reasonable is foolish imo, it seems very badly balanced because SE throws around a word it apparently does not comprehend.

[Fupafighter]

If it were based on skill, we would either be bitching it's too hard, or bitching that we have nothing to do anymore. This event is perfect.

[Demon6324236]

If it were based on skill, we would either be bitching it's too hard, or bitching that we have nothing to do anymore. This event is perfect.

Luck is not perfect its stupid & illogical to rely on because it means you have a random number that chooses if you wasted your time or if your rewarded for it. When I do something I want a guaranty that if I do things right I will be rewarded in some way, giving us a KI at the top doesn't count, because its just as bad as if they just let us get to the top easier but no KI, only random drops. At least then you can get SOMETHING for your effort. As it is now their excuse for why it is so "hard" is because we get a 100% chance at a KI which will give us something we want. I would rather actually make it to the top and get something I don't want than to never make it to the top to get something I do want.

Skill is logical to rely on because you get something if you are good enough to have it or are lucky enough to have it, if you are not good enough you can improve to overcome it. Luck you cannot improve over, you just roll the dice till you get the number you need, improvements are nice and might help a lil in this case but it doesn't change the fact that ultimately that dice is far more powerful at determining your chances & ability to reach the end.

In this game things should be 70% skill 30% luck give or take 10% depending on events. VW is 80% luck 20% skill, This is about 70% luck 30% skill, far on the other side of the table and should be fixed!

[Llana_Virren]

If it were based on skill, we would either be bitching it's too hard, or bitching that we have nothing to do anymore. This event is perfect.

So you're saying lucky players who suck at their job outside of Nyzul, deserve to get better gear?

Please, upload a youtube clip of one of your Nyzul runs... and make sure you show us that you're not doing the typical DDx4/SCHx2 setup... and no movement tricks now, just your powder boots!

Don't worry, I'll wait....

[Fupafighter]

Nyzle isle has always been random floors and luck based. I'll let you know in a week or so how it goes. Our first run ever as a static was like floor 86 floor 89 floor 96 and floor 76. You know what's funny though? None of us are bitching about how it's too hard and luck based. If they made the event easier than it already is, then groups that are expert compared to my group would clear floor 100 100% of the time and there would be no point in doing the event after FIFTEEN days max. Why can't ya all just be happy and either man up and level a job that's nyzle isle friendly, or avoid the content until new content comes out.

[Llana_Virren]

Nyzle isle has always been random floors and luck based. I'll let you know in a week or so how it goes. Our first run ever as a static was like floor 86 floor 89 floor 96 and floor 76. You know what's funny though? None of us are bitching about how it's too hard and luck based. If they made the event easier than it already is, then groups that are expert compared to my group would clear floor 100 100% of the time and there would be no point in doing the event after FIFTEEN days max. Why can't ya all just be happy and either man up and level a job that's nyzle isle friendly, or avoid the content until new content comes out.

Because while your Nyzul Isle quest is just starting, there have been players who have consistently and repeatedly shafted by certain "powers that be" thinking that luck is what brings players to events. This is why Nyzul Isle -isn't- a regular event for most players outside of bottrolls, and why you're seeing players bring issues up. Keep doing it for a while and see if you keep the same attitude.

In the meantime, the point still remains that NI doesn't allow for any alterations to a one-way party configuration. In a game that prided itself on "customization" we are pidgeonholed once again in order to do anything successfully. There are no rewards, but rather penalties, for doing anything other than a DDx4/SCHx2 configuration, with both SCHs having to use their 2-hours.

Getting to floors 76/86/89 is a "+1" kind of thing, as the concept was previously mentioned. We're talking about the "+2 plus" players still struggling to even get to floor 100, let alone beat it.

[Fupafighter]

NO. Our gear is near perfect for TP/ws sets. It just takes time. Abyssea has literally spoiled you guys.

[Fupafighter]

Personally I find it fun being mega buffed running around 4k damage weaponskilling shit. I don't know how you would have fun doing old nyzle isle with buffed up monsters getting to 100.

[MarkovChain]

Yes you can do just fine without cheats. Ever hear of powder boots? Buy 10 pairs of them and rotate fulltime them.

10 pages and none of the super skilled player that don't cheat managed to put out a video of them clearing up to FL100. Something is weird. Are you afraid that we could detect your super skilled way to guess lamp order or specidied enemies location ¿


NO. Our gear is near perfect for TP/ws sets. It just takes time. Abyssea has literally spoiled you guys.

Even though killing enemies is 10% of what you do inside ?

[Fupafighter]

Thus powder boots fulltime are amazing. And I'm pretty sure a DD averaging 4k compared to a DD averaging 2k makes a big difference. Everyone has to cheat to win. THat's right. Also, I play on xbox. Tell me how to cheat.

[Llana_Virren]

10 pages and none of the super skilled player that don't cheat managed to put out a video of them clearing up to FL100.

You're waiting too, huh?

[Fupafighter]

They would have to have all 6 members post a video, just to prove to you idiots that they won legit. That doesn't sound like something I would do.

[MarkovChain]

No there doesn't need to be 6 members. We all want to see how you deal with lamp floors. Please teach us.

[Demon6324236]

Why can't ya all just be happy and either man up and level a job that's nyzle isle friendly, or avoid the content until new content comes out.

Ok let me say one thing. I main RDM, I love RDM, I don't play my RDM. I'm not going to go play another damn job to get gear for my RDM that I will NEVER fucking get to play because I have to level another job for every single event SE puts out. I have geared my RDM and all my efforts are to gear it better, yet I never get a use for it. I'm sick & fucking tired of everyone saying every event to level another job, I shouldn't have to, I should have a use for my job! When RDM has something I can look forward to that I'm gearing for, yes, Ill level other jobs, till then no, people can shove that idea, because I have yet to find what I work for.

Supposedly there is supposed to be work for gear now, and get fun with that gear later. I see work for gear now as a different job, work for gear some more, keep working for gear, and when I'm done, I get to goto a worm party in abyssea and kill things there because thats the only place I'm welcome. I don't level other jobs for VW, I don't for legion, I wont for NNI, I am a RDM and I will play my RDM with SCH on the side till I quit this game because I refuse to level other jobs and have to work on them just to gear the job I like, but will never actually get the chance to use.

No person should have to lv certain jobs to participate in the events, especially in NNIs case, at least in VW only 5~7 jobs are excluded, in NNI you get basically 5 jobs allowed, SCH WAR MNK DRK SAM, everything else gets left out. Luck is a problem no matter how you say it. I don't goto work for the month then get my paycheck and spend it all on lotto tickets. Sure, I might get something awesome and amazing, or I might waste all my time and money on nothing at all, skill should reward, effort should reward, time should reward, luck should not be the center of reward!

[Demon6324236]

No there doesn't need to be 6 members. We all want to see how you deal with lamp floors. Please teach us.

Order=Luck/.Dat
Same-Time=Voice Chat to quickly communicate about them
Code=Communicate quickly and make sure at least one person remembers the correct way to the start so that they may get there as the person waiting at start can get to the code lamp

Thats all there is to it, Order has no secret method, simple luck & guessing or .Dat'ing... I see no other way.

[Mittenz]

@pchan and llana

There was already a video posted back on post 47

[Demon6324236]

@pchan and llana

There was already a video posted back on post 47

Your right, there was, probably didn't look at it because it was Jap but also might I add they even say in the description that it was a lucky ass run? Just saying, also they followed the idea of 4DD+2SCH ONLY!

[Mittenz]

I understand your love for rdm and it's jack of all trades draw but they rendered and continue to render the job useless as I believe this update ends RDM's role in voidwatch but that's a problem with the job itself and SE's lack of vision for it as its role has no defining traits or advantages over taking another Mage job. It has limited AoE buffs the most useful spells it offers can't be made AoE (temper haste and gain spells) I feel the same about my pup and bst and dnc but you can't really blame the event itself for that it's always been like that.

As for the video being lucky yes but they asked for a video to be shown of it being done well there is a video

[Demon6324236]

I understand your love for rdm and it's jack of all trades draw but they rendered and continue to render the job useless as I believe this update ends RDM's role in voidwatch but that's a problem with the job itself and SE's lack of vision for it as its role has no defining traits or advantages over taking another Mage job. It has limited AoE buffs the most useful spells it offers can't be made AoE (temper haste and gain spells) I feel the same about my pup and bst and dnc but you can't really blame the event itself for that it's always been like that.

As for the video being lucky yes but they asked for a video to be shown of it being done well there is a video

Right I was just saying why they might not have known/remembered/cared.

My thing with RDM is its left out of everything, DNC BST & PUP can all do Dyna very very well, RDM can to but its not nearly as effective. DNC can try for white procs, BST can /DNC and get alot of AC in a run without a problem, and PUP can do WS proc time mobs for easy procs because all Automaton attachments like the one that uses provoke or flash will be counted as WSs. I know RDM is losing its time in VW soon, which was its last real event it was viable in. Thats what makes me mad, they have not made a single event RDM can actually be useful in except the worst of all and its now being taken away even.

NNI shows the extreme limits of jobs though, HDDs(Heavy DDs>WAR/DRK/MNK/DRG/SAM) are used in every event, Dyna is the only possible one they don't goto and thats only if your farming AC, Arch-NMs need HDDs. Point being all events need them, so thats expected, other than that you need SCH with Embrava, one of the super 2hours. Again, an obvious choice, but thats as far as it goes, it just ends. VW has alot of jobs you can bring, when you cant get one sometimes you can get others in their place, NNI its 4HDD/2SCH or fail, which is fail in itself.

I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI (Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be able to, meleeing I tend to out damage most other LDDs and some HDDs and none of my other jobs beat it in damage) I'm saying something other than just 4HDDs & 2SCH should be able to. The fact they made it so limited is just flat out stupid, your excluding what is basically 75% of jobs from participation, I know everyone has the ease of getting anything they want to 99 in 1~5 days, but that doesn't make it right that everyone is be limited to 5 choices they might not even like or enjoy just to get some gear for a different job.

[Demon6324236]

Show of hands, how many people out there that don't have well geared Heavy DD jobs that wouldn't mind leveling DRK/WAR/MNK/SAM/DRG, then getting it an Emp/Relic, 4~6 hit build and good WS build to kill things fast, just so they can run NNI 1 time a day hoping for lucky floors just for a few pieces of gear for their WHM BLM RDM THF PLD BST BRD RNG NIN SMN BLU COR PUP or DNC?

[Mittenz]

While they do dyna fine for solo farming ancient currency as far as my ls goes its adl/farming for adl pops so as far as anything event wise my dnc pup and bst are as useful as rdm. Has a minor event if you don't do it as an event itself much like rdm can do dyna solo as well (my Excalibur rdm does fairly well though not as good as some other jobs because it can proc the much abandoned magic proc mobs getting about 100ish currency a run unless I proc white).

As far as leveling jobs goes I did sch (got the most use of my rdm gear) and drg (doesnt need an empy to be good) just to continue gathering gear for my hope that one day the jobs I do like will become useful again and they will be ready.

[MarkovChain]

@pchan and llana

There was already a video posted back on post 47

I asked for a video of those claiming they don't cheat. The JP in the video is getting 1 free warp and no lamp order I think. 99% of the reason he is clearing is cause he is getting +9 jumps a lot.

[Camiie]

Show of hands, how many people out there that don't have well geared Heavy DD jobs that wouldn't mind leveling DRK/WAR/MNK/SAM/DRG, then getting it an Emp/Relic, 4~6 hit build and good WS build to kill things fast, just so they can run NNI 1 time a day hoping for lucky floors just for a few pieces of gear for their WHM BLM RDM THF PLD BST BRD RNG NIN SMN BLU COR PUP or DNC?

While I do have well geared heavy DD jobs already, I'm not going to level and gear any job I wouldn't otherwise enjoy just for one event. That's nuts. Getting a relic or empyrean for such a job would be beyond insanity. Ain't no shiny worth being miserable for.

[Spiritreaver]

Order lamps appear about once every 50 floors you actually do, theyre not a big deal. If you actually ever did the event you'd know this.

Please...:rolleyes:

[Mittenz]

I asked for a video of those claiming they don't cheat. The JP in the video is getting 1 free warp and no lamp order I think. 99% of the reason he is clearing is cause he is getting +9 jumps a lot.

so you want a video of someone winning without cheats but it cant be the video already posted of someone doing it and the video has to be someone getting unlucky rather than lucky with floors... yeah.... no. Its already been stated your not ment to get to 100 every time (in fact they said floor 60 is average) its been shown it can be done, a video was made and shown for it get over it and move on.

Whether its luck in jumps or luck in getting the pool no matter what they arent just going to give you a free pass if its going to be common to get to the top its going to be like a 1% drop rate on 1 of 15 armors that you and 5 others get to lot it out on and the rest of the time your going to get logs and at that point your better off just doing floor 80 runs anyway. Though you would then be on the forum complaining about logzul instead of nyzul. They crusade for balance if you think they are going to hand you this gear I suggest you go to bed because your dreams are the only place that is going to happen.

[detlef]

Show of hands, how many people out there that don't have well geared Heavy DD jobs that wouldn't mind leveling DRK/WAR/MNK/SAM/DRG, then getting it an Emp/Relic, 4~6 hit build and good WS build to kill things fast, just so they can run NNI 1 time a day hoping for lucky floors just for a few pieces of gear for their WHM BLM RDM THF PLD BST BRD RNG NIN SMN BLU COR PUP or DNC?
This is exactly what I'm doing. I geared SCH to 501 enhancing and am 14/15 but I want some versatility. It's fun to level and gear something completely different from my other jobs. If you don't have a heavy melee job, why not level one? Try something new and experience the game in a different way.

[MarkovChain]

so you want a video of someone winning without cheats but it cant be the video already posted of someone doing it and the video has to be someone getting unlucky rather than lucky with floors... yeah.... no. Its already been stated your not ment to get to 100 every time (in fact they said floor 60 is average) its been shown it can be done, a video was made and shown for it get over it and move on.

Whether its luck in jumps or luck in getting the pool no matter what they arent just going to give you a free pass if its going to be common to get to the top its going to be like a 1% drop rate on 1 of 15 armors that you and 5 others get to lot it out on and the rest of the time your going to get logs and at that point your better off just doing floor 80 runs anyway. Though you would then be on the forum complaining about logzul instead of nyzul. They crusade for balance if you think they are going to hand you this gear I suggest you go to bed because your dreams are the only place that is going to happen.

I'm sorry that's not what the morons have been claiming in the thread. They have been saying that you can win a large portion of the time if you don't suck and they insist on being well geared and so on. I'm sorry, but can you guyz show us how you average one minute per floor and clear 15 floors ? I'll point you out that the JP in the video already have 3 piece of nyzul, and all of a sudden he is clearing a F100 without cheats ? Why is he using powders boots and yet always finds the mob last or doesn't have to /check mobs to guess which is right ?

Way to many come troll here explaining that's they didn't cheat to get their stuff yet non is able to post a vid. It's funny...

[Zirael]

Show of hands, how many people out there that don't have well geared Heavy DD jobs that wouldn't mind leveling DRK/WAR/MNK/SAM/DRG, then getting it an Emp/Relic, 4~6 hit build and good WS build to kill things fast, just so they can run NNI 1 time a day hoping for lucky floors just for a few pieces of gear for their WHM BLM RDM THF PLD BST BRD RNG NIN SMN BLU COR PUP or DNC?
I'll pass. I play THF mostly (sometimes meeleRDM) and whenever I try jump on my DRK (the only heavy DD im interested in) it feels sooo strange not evading hits and taking 2 seconds between swings. I just plain prefer THF. At least Mandau THF is semi-viable in Nyzul, but RDM BRD WHM BLM SMN etc, in no way or form, unless they introduce Revitalizer, which would free up 1 SCH slot for another mage/support job.

[Dragoy]

actually for the most part PS2 used to have a huge advantage of the mob loading faster on the system so your best claim bet was a ps2 and turbo controller. Up until they added the lockout timer that was a fairly reliable claim method. It had nothing to do with where you were, the PS2 was so dumbed down there was like no load time for models is my guess.

Okies, I had a feeling there might be something like that going on. This game was never released for the PS2 here, and I couldn't pay for the game until somewhere in 2006 I think it was, even though I got it in 2004 if memory serves, so I'm very likely to have missed any such period in time.


As for some of the suggestions for Nyzul Isle Investigation, alone the change of making the timer start after actually starting (i.e., after the 'lobby' area) would be very nice. I always wondered why it had to be like that in the first place. If it's to prevent 'hogging' the area, well, I think 5 or even 3 minutes in there would be fair enough, then the players would be automagically warped to a random place on Vana'diel.

I believe it was also mentioned that it would be good to have the timer stop (at least for a while) while the players are being moved to another area. Game-mechanics wasting our time like that is far from good design methinks.

Likewise, make the lamps function faster. Better yet, alter the 'order' ones in some way that it is less of a show-stopper. Eve better: remove them altogether ! !! !

I think some people suggested an auto-warp when the objective is complete. This would at least need a minute or so of time where the timer is not running, to give players time to open possible chests from something they just defeated. A sort of a breather, too. Foes not being fought with at the time could de-spawn, so the time could not be used to defeat 'extra stuff' even though I doubt that would be too bad of a side-effect anyways.

If things can not be made 'balanced' amongst the players who do not use cheats, and with those who do, name the target(s), and insert a blip into the radar where they are. Obviously those with no walls and the likes still have an edge, and while this is obviously not a fix for the issues, it would make it at least a bit more... balanced.

And in the end, apply it all to the charted regions of Nyzul Isle as well (yeah, I know it's very easy now, and not exactly 'needed' to be made more easy, but I'd still like it).


Oops, did I write that much. Just some quick thoughts while passing by (no complete suggestions really, just some ideas and things that I agree with).

[Demon6324236]

Show of hands, how many people out there that don't have well geared Heavy DD jobs that wouldn't mind leveling DRK/WAR/MNK/SAM/DRG, then getting it an Emp/Relic, 4~6 hit build and good WS build to kill things fast, just so they can run NNI 1 time a day hoping for lucky floors just for a few pieces of gear for their WHM BLM RDM THF PLD BST BRD RNG NIN SMN BLU COR PUP or DNC?

Incase people didn't catch on btw, this was a sarcastic question, I mean by all means reply because it is proving my point but all the same I don't want you to think this is actually how I think it should be, just pointing out thats how it is, and its bad.

[Rosalie]

I'll pass. I play THF mostly (sometimes meeleRDM) and whenever I try jump on my DRK (the only heavy DD im interested in) it feels sooo strange not evading hits and taking 2 seconds between swings. I just plain prefer THF. At least Mandau THF is semi-viable in Nyzul, but RDM BRD WHM BLM SMN etc, in no way or form, unless they introduce Revitalizer, which would free up 1 SCH slot for another mage/support job.

Revitalizer is already in there, it's just too rare to be a viable option.

[Vortex]

so you want a video of someone winning without cheats but it cant be the video already posted of someone doing it and the video has to be someone getting unlucky rather than lucky with floors... yeah.... no. Its already been stated your not ment to get to 100 every time (in fact they said floor 60 is average) its been shown it can be done, a video was made and shown for it get over it and move on.

Whether its luck in jumps or luck in getting the pool no matter what they arent just going to give you a free pass if its going to be common to get to the top its going to be like a 1% drop rate on 1 of 15 armors that you and 5 others get to lot it out on and the rest of the time your going to get logs and at that point your better off just doing floor 80 runs anyway. Though you would then be on the forum complaining about logzul instead of nyzul. They crusade for balance if you think they are going to hand you this gear I suggest you go to bed because your dreams are the only place that is going to happen.


Why do you bother, he seems to think if it can't happen to him then it's not possible, he wants someone magicaly getting a win with 2-3 jump floors and alot of order lamp and other terrible luck runs. the video was shown and he's still denying you can't do it.

There is no help for this guy.

[Fupafighter]

So what I got so far is 1. People don't want to experience the game and level another job for an event and possible events in the future and be more versatile. 2. They claim they cannot win, but in fact you can win given enough luck without cheats. 3. They don't enjoy the content so they want them to change the content so they can come jobs like lolrdm or something nowadays. Even if they did patch the lamps, people going jobs like red mage or nin would not clear the content mainly because you don't do enough damage. If they fix lamps and make the event easier, all that will happen is red mages and such get a 2% chance to clear the content with their horrible damage output and groups going 2 sch 4 heavy DD will be clearing the content in 15 days. That seems pointless. Aim for 80 25x if you can't get 100. They gave you that option if you're gimp.

[Demon6324236]

So what I got so far is 1. People don't want to experience the game and level another job for an event and possible events in the future and be more versatile. 2. They claim they cannot win, but in fact you can win given enough luck without cheats. 3. They don't enjoy the content so they want them to change the content so they can come jobs like lolrdm or something nowadays. Even if they did patch the lamps, people going jobs like red mage or nin would not clear the content mainly because you don't do enough damage. If they fix lamps and make the event easier, all that will happen is red mages and such get a 2% chance to clear the content with their horrible damage output and groups going 2 sch 4 heavy DD will be clearing the content in 15 days. That seems pointless. Aim for 80 25x if you can't get 100. They gave you that option if you're gimp.

I choose to refuse the idea of doing one of 2 stupid options, yes. To 1, level, make an emp, get a good TP set, get a good WS set, all for a job I play only for the reason of doing this event to get gear for the job I really do care about. 2, to do something 25 times is outragous when in those 25 times I probably will get lucky enough anyways to hit the 100th floor anyways, if anything at most it should have been 5~10, not 25.


2. They claim they cannot win, but in fact you can win given enough luck without cheats.

Also, again, luck should not be the focus thing that determines my ability to win. As for going RDM, did I say I wanted to go to this event on RDM? Lets look back shall we?


I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI (Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be able to, meleeing I tend to out damage most other LDDs and some HDDs and none of my other jobs beat it in damage) I'm saying something other than just 4HDDs & 2SCH should be able to. The fact they made it so limited is just flat out stupid, your excluding what is basically 75% of jobs from participation, I know everyone has the ease of getting anything they want to 99 in 1~5 days, but that doesn't make it right that everyone is be limited to 5 choices they might not even like or enjoy just to get some gear for a different job.


3. They don't enjoy the content

Your right again, I don't enjoy the content, I find it rather an annoyance and irritation due to the fact that its luck based and I have nothing more than random numbers to tell me if this time I win, or if this time I get nothing at all. Far be it for me that I think a video game I play should be enjoyable, I guess I'm one weird ass person to even come up with something that crazy.


red mages and such get a 2% chance to clear the content with their horrible damage output

Oh so you have seen a good RDM actually melee? Or are you going off the general idea that goes around that no RDM in the game can possible DD worth a damn because most people tend to melee in half mage gear? You melee in this (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/260962) and a RDM will do good, you melee in this (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/261101), then your stupid if your trying to DD because duh, it wont happen well. I know RDM does not add up to a SAM or WAR, thats obvious because guess what, all light DDs get screwed, thats why no one brings them to VW or NNI really, because Heavy DDs are built for killing and get over all better gear for it, light DDs are more utility and support, something this game no longer uses or supports unless your a buffer for the real DDs that matter, or procing.


They gave you that option if you're gimp.

You don't get it, and yet you admit its a factor. This has nothing to do with being gimp, yes, that will hurt your chances of getting to 100, but again, its based on... wait for it~
luck
gimps can get to 100 with that word, pros can get screwed by that word, and I, fucking hate that word.

[Llana_Virren]

So what I got so far is ....

You didn't get anything because you're still running with the same ignorant opinion on NI that you started with.

Let's clarify a few things for you:

1. Luck needs to be reduced. Period. This isn't synthesis here, where "anyone can do it regardless of job". This is an environment in which only a fraction of the jobs in game are viable for. This is not because players are forcing these job combinations. The actual design gives players no other options.

2. Gimp parties have an equal chance to advance as +2 parties. Perhaps this perspective will help: Players with dat-mods and flee hacks do not have an unfair advantage. Players who do not use every available cheat, have an unfair disadvantage. The difference? NI is designed so that a standard player will fail 98% of the time, regardless of skill.

Flee hacked, dat-modded groups are not the "elite." They just have the best chance to win.
This forum has been trying to get this fact in players' heads, like yours:
Tier 1|Success Rate: 0-10?%: The "only real chance" group: Flee-hack, Dat-modded SCHx2, DDx4 setup
Tier 2|Success Rate: 0-5%: The "We're good, but we wont use hacks" group: SCHx2, DDx4 setup
Tier 3|Success Rate: 0-5%: The "We're good, but we're don't have a x2 SCH available" group: SCHx1, DDx4/5, RDM-maybe?
Tier 4|Success Rate: 0-5%: The "Have +1 but no Empy" group: The 10-80% player-base
Tier 5|Success Rate: 0-5%: the "Gimps" you refer to: The bottom 10% of player-base

Do you not see the problem there?

3. Just for the sake of trolling, I hope they some day add an event that drops only 100-peice currencies, HMPx50s, and the like, but only works for pet-jobs. So you can only go as BST, SMN, DRG or PUP. Anything damage dealt by the actual player instead of the pet instantly full-cure and rages the mobs. Any player without a pet out incurs a 500HP/tic poison effect. Oh, and you can only do this event once a RL-week. Let it also drop the items needed to "upgrade" jobs to their final stages, like Wizards, Magus, Mystic Knight, etc. Just to troll everyone who says you should "only go as specific jobs, unless you want to be gimp". That's what NI is. This is a "SCHx2, DDx4 or GTFO" event, which contradicts the "customization ethos" behind FFXI, and makes players unhappy.

Maybe there are a few (*cough, cheaters) who are happy with keeping NI the way it is. But the majority of players do not enjoy the way NI is configured, and a large number of these people are not "gimp" by any means. They simply do not subscribe to the notion that SCHx2, DDx4 should be the only acceptable way to enjoy the content.

[Ganukay]

So much obvious trolling in this thread...
To anyone saying a gimp can get this gear if they're lucky, they can't. It takes skill. Winning may rely on luck sometimes, but no amount of luck replaces skill in NNI. Yes, it sucks you need to 2 hour twice for it, but if you want the gear you'll do it. Maybe it'll change someday, but we all have to deal with it for now.
Your DD jobs can be flexible if they're very skilled, it doesn't always have to be SAM/WAR/DRK/DRG/MNK (I've won with a nin and dnc). I'd try and stick to powder boots jobs though.
As for order floors, they're not as bad as everyone complains and they shouldn't break your run if everyone's knows what they're doing and you have an easy floor to make up for that time.
Order lamps:
Have everyone hit a lamp as soon as they find one. / in chat as soon as you hit your lamp. Someone managing lamp order take note of the order lamps are hit in. Any lamp that stays on was hit in the right order. Any that turned off are in the wrong order. Change around the ones in the wrong order and repeat. Tell everyone the order and have them / when they hit their lamp. It shouldn't take more than 10-15 seconds to go through 1 lamp order guess. The cool down on order lamps isn't as bad as same time and even with 5 lamps the MOST guesses you'll have are 5, and that's if you're very unlucky. Obviously 2 or 3 of these floors would ruin your run, but 1 is manageable and still possible to win.

[Maytag]

So the people crying want everything easy? So you want SE to give you floor 100 with .0001% drop rates and no KI for win instead? I guess you rather have that than using the strats others already provided for you. k

[FrankReynolds]

So the people crying want everything easy? So you want SE to give you floor 100 with .0001% drop rates and no KI for win instead? I guess you rather have that than using the strats others already provided for you. k

Obvious troll is obvious

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Trollface.svg

[Demon6324236]

So the people crying want everything easy? So you want SE to give you floor 100 with .0001% drop rates and no KI for win instead? I guess you rather have that than using the strats others already provided for you. k

Its not about it being easy, its about it being luck based and inaccessible. When an event is restricting the player base to 1/4th of the job list and attempting to substitute difficulty for luck it is a problem, as is what NNI does. You see no one complain they are dying to much, the content is to "hard" its that its to luck based that no matter your skill a random number does determine your fate in the end.

[Demon6324236]

So much obvious trolling in this thread...
To anyone saying a gimp can get this gear if they're lucky, they can't. It takes skill. Winning may rely on luck sometimes, but no amount of luck replaces skill in NNI. Yes, it sucks you need to 2 hour twice for it, but if you want the gear you'll do it.

Yes, gimps can make it, skill does help, but with enough luck you can easily as well, all it takes is lucky jumps and some free floors with specific enemy mobs being in the room next to start and few/no lamp floors. Gimps need more luck, but still can win with it, pros can still fail even if they are the best players ever to live because luck can give you jumps of 2~4s only. More skill you have, less luck you need, best case scenario imo is probably having 50% skill & 50% luck, because no matter how fast you go random number floors and random floor contents will make a difference.


Your DD jobs can be flexible if they're very skilled, it doesn't always have to be SAM/WAR/DRK/DRG/MNK (I've won with a nin and dnc). I'd try and stick to powder boots jobs though.

Yes, very skilled DNC NIN or THF can do it, but decent Heavy DDs can do it easy, this is why its unbalanced, and also by putting in a DNC NIN or THF you also rely more on luck again, slower kill time, lower HP, more chances to die on floors with enemys such as soulflayers due to high magic damage on low HP/Resist jobs.

[Mittenz]

Too be fair you are not restricted to those jobs that's just what most groups want. Our group tends to take a core of 5 then take members of the LS, we have taken some unpopular jobs and still won such as thf and rng. Heavy dd make it easier to afford mistakes but if the player of thf rng or even bst pup etc are knowledgeable about what they need to do and are skilled at their job they can indeed be taken they just have to work a lot harder to keep up which is why most either don't have faith in the player enough to include them or they have a specific mindset that only certain jobs can be used. IMO the latter one should be something people focus on changing people's minds about because it's untrue and unfair to everyone wanting to get involved (except smn sorry guys but your little bird friend takes too long to bp)

Edit: the only jobs I can see being absolutely left out of this are blm smn and whm because they either don't do damage fast enough and can't melee period or their job can be done with embrava and regen 5 combo

[Fupafighter]

You can go let's see here Blu Drg Sam Rng Drk War Sch Dnc Pup Mnk Thf, you just won't have this high win rate like some groups winning 30-50% of the time. And no red mage cannot melee. The only thing I can think of is haste cap with a enthunder or some crap with kraken club or joytoy or some crap. If the game were based on skill, 90% of the player base would have all the damn gear by now. What would require skill in nyzle isle? Stunning certain tp moves lol? This game doesn't really take skill, so stop throwing that around like you're all godly and you should have the armor because you're so good. It's simple. Player skill died back at 75...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You can go let's see here Blu Drg Sam Rng Drk War Sch Dnc Pup Mnk Thf, you just won't have this high win rate like some groups winning 30-50% of the time. And no red mage cannot melee. The only thing I can think of is haste cap with a enthunder or some crap with kraken club or joytoy or some crap. If the game were based on skill, 90% of the player base would have all the damn gear by now. What would require skill in nyzle isle? Stunning certain tp moves lol? This game doesn't really take skill, so stop throwing that around like you're all godly and you should have the armor because you're so good. It's simple. Player skill died back at 75...

Poor developers shouldn't be the case as to whether something should be skill based or not, fact remains it should. As the developers lack any incentive to do so they rely too much on "luck" and the godly "balance" nonsense it probably wont ever be the case.

Now stop throwing around random odds backed up by nothing.

PS. To be pedantic, RDM can melee and are intended to in SE's eyes, they just don't do it that well. :)

[Gokku]

You didn't get a
Let's clarify a few things for you:

1. Luck needs to be reduced. Period. This isn't synthesis here, where "anyone can do it regardless of job". This is an environment in which only a fraction of the jobs in game are viable for. This is not because players are forcing these job combinations. The actual design gives players no other options.

2. Gimp parties have an equal chance to advance as +2 parties. Perhaps this perspective will help: Players with dat-mods do not have an unfair advantage. Players who do not use every available cheat, have an unfair disadvantage. The difference? NI is designed so that a standard player will fail 90% of the time, regardless of skill.

dat-modded groups are not the "elite." They just have the best chance to win.*only elite players in this game would be any legion ls's who are constantly clearing shit*
This forum has been trying to get this fact in players' heads, like yours:

Tier 1|Success Rate: 40-60?%: The "only real chance" group: Dat-modded SCHx2,Heavy DDx4 setup *relics/empys/mythics*
Tier 2|Success Rate: 20-10%: The "We're good, but we wont use hacks" group: SCHx2, Heavy DDx4 setup
Tier 3|Success Rate: 0-5%: The "We're good, but we're don't have a x2 SCH available" group: SCHx1, DDx4/5, RDM-maybe? * waste of time to try it atm*
Tier 4|Success Rate: 0-5%: The "Have +1 but no Empy" group: The 10-80% player-base * see 3*
Tier 5|Success Rate: 0-5%: the "Gimps" you refer to: The bottom 10% of player-base


Maybe there are a few (*cough, cheaters) who are happy with keeping NI the way it is. * If anyone is "happy" its people selling gear for shit tons of money but even they have to know shit is unbalanced. But the majority of players do not enjoy the way NI is configured, and a large number of these people are not "gimp" by any means. They simply do not subscribe to the notion that SCHx2, DDx4 should be the only acceptable way to enjoy the content.

Fixed to reflect how i feel!.

Using BG as the focal point of the "everyone who wins is cheaters" - when the event first came out i do know alot of people who were winning JP or NA *they cheat JUST as much* , used flee tools , walked through walls to save alot of time. But alot of that stopped once the first group posted getting banned then you had the JP's GMing every person / group they saw enter NI. My groups so paranoid about that shit we make damn sure no ones flee botting or walking through shit because its unnecessary and the GM's are banning whole groups for even catching 1 person doing it.

[Fupafighter]

Once again, if this event required skill, they would make the drops luck based like they used to be. Then we would be bitching our skill isn't giving us reward (VW). NO NO NO red mage CANNOT melee even close to as efficient as a heavy DD or a dnc nin thf mnk pup blu. They're an enfeebling master. That's what they're designed to do. So stop saying it can. I had a melee rdm, it didn't work. What do you seriously want them to do to this event? How the hell would they make it "skill based"? How would they make it "skill" based without making it extremely easy for the current setups of sch x2 4 heavy DD? YOu want them to make it so you can go in with 6 bst and clear content no problem and get the best gear in the game, using said "skill" of pressing 4 buttons. Or 6 red mages "meleeing" fodder mobs. So much skill right. Give me good suggestions and the dev team good suggestions on how not to break the event and make it too easy on 2 SCH 4 heavy DD setups while making it managable for other random job setups to do the event and I will be satisfied.

[Demon6324236]

Once again, if this event required skill, they would make the drops luck based like they used to be. Then we would be bitching our skill isn't giving us reward (VW). NO NO NO red mage CANNOT melee even close to as efficient as a heavy DD or a dnc nin thf mnk pup blu. They're an enfeebling master. That's what they're designed to do. So stop saying it can. I had a melee rdm, it didn't work. What do you seriously want them to do to this event? How the hell would they make it "skill based"? How would they make it "skill" based without making it extremely easy for the current setups of sch x2 4 heavy DD? YOu want them to make it so you can go in with 6 bst and clear content no problem and get the best gear in the game, using said "skill" of pressing 4 buttons. Or 6 red mages "meleeing" fodder mobs. So much skill right. Give me good suggestions and the dev team good suggestions on how not to break the event and make it too easy on 2 SCH 4 heavy DD setups while making it managable for other random job setups to do the event and I will be satisfied.

READ THIS


I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI (Don't get me wrong, I would like it to be able to, meleeing I tend to out damage most other LDDs and some HDDs and none of my other jobs beat it in damage) I'm saying something other than just 4HDDs & 2SCH should be able to. The fact they made it so limited is just flat out stupid, your excluding what is basically 75% of jobs from participation, I know everyone has the ease of getting anything they want to 99 in 1~5 days, but that doesn't make it right that everyone is be limited to 5 choices they might not even like or enjoy just to get some gear for a different job.

Lets look at that again...


I am not saying necessarily my RDM should be able to do NNI

Get your head out of your ass for 10 seconds and read my post and you might actually understand something! I said, many times, I do not expect RDM to do NNI, I understand it can't, you want to know 1 main reason above all else? Its not enfeebling master, your full of shit, yes, it has A+ Enfeebling and Enfeebling merits, thats as far as it goes, if anything its Enhancing magic before enfeebling, Temper, Gain spells, Phalanx, Refresh these can help melee massively and are RDM only, Enfeebling is shared between WHM & BLM all the same except merits, meaning it has very little "mastery" when everything else shares it. But more importantly, a RDM cannot hope to melee without buffs. High enhancing magic near or past 500 are needed, also it can only fight for about 15~20 minutes before these buffs wear and it must reapply. NNI is a 30minute event of which you will not last with RDM buffs. Thus RDM is ineffective in this event due to time constraints and rebuffing being necessary.

Your ideas on melee RDM show how misguided you are in regards to it in general, no, enspells do not do the majority of your damage and you should not be doing en-shaving, you should have an Emp (or relic) with the weapon skills that do good damage, then you should use Gain-DEX for the accuracy from DEX about 25 off the spell alone. Accuracy is nice in RDM melee gear if you have the correct gear rather than stupid gear, and you can get alot of DEX as well, meaning you will hit, this was an old problem of melee RDM. CDC with a good WS setup can do very well, outside abyssea I have hit as high as 2.3k on DC mobs which I say is fairly damn good for how little people think of melee RDM. I fight & DD in VW because people know I can DD on RDM.

When you understand what a RDM does melee, you come back to me, I understand my flaws and strengths, I know why I can or cannot do NNI, I don't need you to tell me that when you also apparently don't know the job, few people do now days, they think RDM is SCH, no, SCH is the master of using light & dark magic in 1 job, RDM is a SCH, but with less magic focus, and the power to melee as well. You look at most RDMs, they don't know SCH exists,they think RDM is the only job with both White & Black magic. In other words, stop telling me how to play my job when you don't understand it yourself!


As for skill, yes, skill should matter, did I say "I R Uber pro you R all fail tards no skill fails" no, I said it should be skill based, when a developer pushes itself into the hole SE has where everything must be luck based its sad. At this point Embrava & Perfect Defense ruin the game, you know why? All events must anticipate the eventual use of either of these 2 super powers, and as such must allow for difficulty with either of them, in this case, Embrava, because its timed. I have no fear new Odin2.0 will be cake with the AV zerg setup. 12DDs 1COR 1SCH 1BRD 3SMN, tada, should probably win without effort I think, if your to slow you will die due to fail setup, if your fast enough event is to simple. If its multiple mobs and timed, then you need Embrava because it speeds up kills to unreal speed and gives you enough regen to cover minor damage, thats why Embrava will be the way to go for Limbus, Nyzul, Salvage, all of those events. The problem is without them the event is virtually impossible because if you count for a super power to be used, then without said super power, you are mortal and very vulnerable to the deadly foe before you that was designed to be killed with these super powers.

EDIT------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, SE has made it so where skill is hard to incorporate into this game by giving us 2 jobs with incredible abilitys to turn the other players into gods or demi-gods. This means they must balance all events around this idea, as shown by the final limit break, it would have been ok, the fight could have been fun, but with Embrava and PD it was much to simple, you see with a normal party, PLD tank, 3 DDs, healer, and support, it would have been nice. This however never happened, you see, through the use of both Embrava & PD players were able to find a few ways around this, most popular being the MNK zerg. 5MNKs and 1SMN will zerg the final limit break easy, the MNKs are unable to die, and with HF do enough damage they will take the Taru down with little effort.

Skill will exist when we can get rid of super powers being super powers and it becomes balanced again. SE talks about balance alot but they apparently were foolish enough to over look the effects of Embrava & PD as unbalanced, as such it has made the game incredibly hard to balance, I however have faith in SE, they do not seem like a stupid company, they have made games I have loved for years this included. Even if they have made RDM hard to maneuver around its faults, even if they have pushed the game into a luck reliant system due to 2 job abilitys/spells implemented into the game for 2 jobs, I would hope they can somehow fix this.

[Fupafighter]

Point is, red mage isn't even close to as effective as a well geared blu using CDC. Second, you didn't say anything about how to help the event become better. YOu just keep throwing out "it shouldn't be luck based'. They aren't going to listen to that. You actually have to give suggestions. Also 2.3k is kind of blah for weaponskill damage. An average DAMAGE DEALER does 2.5k on a weak weaponskill. That is why I feel red mage shouldn't melee. Seriously, just cave in and level another job and try to have fun playing it, or avoid the content. Or like I said earlier, find a way to not break the event and allow your "main" to go to the event and offer those suggestions to the dev team. Bickering about luck isn't going to do anything.

[Llana_Virren]

Fixed to reflect how i feel!.

Using BG as the focal point of the "everyone who wins is cheaters" - when the event first came out i do know alot of people who were winning JP or NA *they cheat JUST as much* , used flee tools , walked through walls to save alot of time. But alot of that stopped once the first group posted getting banned then you had the JP's GMing every person / group they saw enter NI. My groups so paranoid about that shit we make damn sure no ones flee botting or walking through shit because its unnecessary and the GM's are banning whole groups for even catching 1 person doing it.

Don't "fix" (ie. alter) a quote, it is misleading and rude. Just use your own post.

Also, no one is saying "everyone who wins is cheating." The issue is that only the cheaters have a worth-while shot at winning. Let's not lose perspective.

[Llana_Virren]

Or like I said earlier, find a way to not break the event. Bickering about luck isn't going to do anything.

Any event which requires Embrava x2 is broken, no matter how you look at it.
Any event which, after using Embrava x2, has a shit-rate chance of success, is beyond borked and should be fixed or removed entirely.

[Fupafighter]

Any event which requires Embrava x2 is broken, no matter how you look at it.
Any event which, after using Embrava x2, has a shit-rate chance of success, is beyond borked and should be fixed or removed entirely.
That means that fixing it so they don't need embrava would make it so the people with embrava would most likely clear 100% of the time. Thus they would basically have to remove embrava in general and nerf the monsters in order for the event to be doable by all variety of jobs. And thus they would have to either up the amount of "tokens" or w.e for a floor 100 from say 1-10 to balance it and make the gear extremely rare drops on floor 100. What do you suggest they do wiseguys? Since you all know how to make an MMO function.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

In before lock.

[Llana_Virren]

That means that fixing it so they don't need embrava would make it so the people with embrava would most likely clear 100% of the time. Thus they would basically have to remove embrava in general and nerf the monsters in order for the event to be doable by all variety of jobs. And thus they would have to either up the amount of "tokens" or w.e for a floor 100 from say 1-10 to balance it and make the gear extremely rare drops on floor 100. What do you suggest they do wiseguys? Since you all know how to make an MMO function.

No... just no. The suggestions revolve around things such as:

1. Pause time after completing a floor objective. Does not apply to timers on spells/effects/etc, just the event.
*failing a condition such as "do not aggro/kill gears" will force time to continue to run.
*accomplishing a condition such as "do not aggro/kill gears" rewards bonus time.

2. Eliminate lobby time penalty.

3. Create conditions which can reward bonus time (like above) or via the activation of "additional" lamps (not order lamps or original jump lamp).

4. Grant a permanent movement speed bonus to characters while not actively engaged with a target.

5. Allow players to pre-set "jump to next floor" or "jump to random floor" and force an automatic warp upon objective completion.

Cheaters are going to cheat no matter what. Players will probably never not go Embrava x2. That's not the issue. The issue is that if you do not use cheats or use Embrava x2, you will almost certainly fail. Yes, it should be hard. But it should not be so heavily weighted on luck.

Put it this way. I'm going to use "estimated figures" for the sake of showing cause/effect. Do not assume these values to be inherently accurate themselves alone:

Currently, NI is 80% Luck/20% Skill.

Cheating tools save (primarily) time. Time is based mostly on the type of floor (luck-based), so Cheats change the figures to something like: 65% Luck / 15% skill / 20% Cheat tools

Cheat tools are not compensating for skill; they are compensating for the luck. Yes there is still a rediculous amount of luck factored in, but the ratio of Luck:Skill favors those who use cheats. We're talking about reducing the Luck factor, so that the difference between Cheat-tool runs, and non-cheat-tool runs, have a less significant impact than they do.

Final thought: "What do you suggest?" Everyone keeps asking this, and we keep providing responses. Everyone saying that the system is "perfect" as is, have yet to say why, except that it reduces the amount of the gear on the server (e-peen stroking); not that it reduces the number of gimps who have access to it.... Coincidence?

[Fupafighter]

So what you just suggested basically makes it so any random group can clear occasionally, while 2 sch 4 DD clear it 100% of the time then.

[Demon6324236]

Point is, red mage isn't even close to as effective as a well geared blu using CDC. Second, you didn't say anything about how to help the event become better. YOu just keep throwing out "it shouldn't be luck based'. They aren't going to listen to that. You actually have to give suggestions. Also 2.3k is kind of blah for weaponskill damage. An average DAMAGE DEALER does 2.5k on a weak weaponskill. That is why I feel red mage shouldn't melee. Seriously, just cave in and level another job and try to have fun playing it, or avoid the content. Or like I said earlier, find a way to not break the event and allow your "main" to go to the event and offer those suggestions to the dev team. Bickering about luck isn't going to do anything.

Like I said, I don't think you understand RDM melee, many people do it badly, your example is one way to do it badly, I have played RDM as my main since I started this game and I know how to do it right. My RDM does more than almost any BLU I have seen wielding an Almace thank you, also as I said, 2.3k is good for a job most people shit on especially when its on DCs, normally the DC mobs seem to take little from my other jobs, then again this may be due to the fact I refuse to make another Emp other than Almace...

As for fixing content, Ill repost the edit I made to my post...


SE has made it so where skill is hard to incorporate into this game by giving us 2 jobs with incredible abilitys to turn the other players into gods or demi-gods. This means they must balance all events around this idea, as shown by the final limit break, it would have been ok, the fight could have been fun, but with Embrava and PD it was much to simple, you see with a normal party, PLD tank, 3 DDs, healer, and support, it would have been nice. This however never happened, you see, through the use of both Embrava & PD players were able to find a few ways around this, most popular being the MNK zerg. 5MNKs and 1SMN will zerg the final limit break easy, the MNKs are unable to die, and with HF do enough damage they will take the Taru down with little effort.

Skill will exist when we can get rid of super powers being super powers and it becomes balanced again. SE talks about balance alot but they apparently were foolish enough to over look the effects of Embrava & PD as unbalanced, as such it has made the game incredibly hard to balance, I however have faith in SE, they do not seem like a stupid company, they have made games I have loved for years this included. Even if they have made RDM hard to maneuver around its faults, even if they have pushed the game into a luck reliant system due to 2 job abilitys/spells implemented into the game for 2 jobs, I would hope they can somehow fix this.

Embrava is forced same with PD, the reason is because when they made these they made a job ability that allows for invincibility zergs by DDs, when it was just PLD, no one would be able to do this, its even only 30seconds not 90, and also does not avoid magic, so far as I know PD is 60~90 seconds, is about 95% -DT effecting magic as well, and overall is overpowered. Embrava gives you a massive amount of TP/Tick, breaks Haste, and gives you HP enough to live through a fight with almost any mob worth fighting that isn't a NM with its regen, not counting Regen V which is a total of about 150HP/tick for 2 spells.

These 2 things are what break it, Nyzul is broken by making you need Embrava, but thats because the event had to have Embrava planed, just like I'm hoping Odin has some way to break Perfect Defense away, same with Arch-Limbus NMs, if they don't then this update is pointless. The reason I feel this is wrong is because of Perfect Defense, they have it simple, most NMs like Absolute Virtue have good drops and also are easily PDZerg-able, the drops are high rates and worth the kill. I expect Limbus, to be Embrava for floors, and PDZergs for bosses, simple and easy, difference is Limbus you get TEs which mean you do have luck still, but it takes a back seat roll, TEs can drop, or might not, but you do not need to rely on them as heavily as you do for NNI where floor jumps, contents of floors, objectives of floors, and locations of objectives of floors, are all random...



To answer your question in a simple way, the only way to fix Nyzul is to break it, if they take out the requirement for Embrava, then they will make the content to easy for people abusing Embrava, however it will be fair to those without it or who mainly use non-Heavy DD jobs. If they keep it how it is, its fair to people using 4HDDs & Embrava, but everyone else gets screwed so bad they never make it past floor 50(exaggeration). Point is they backed themselves into a corner, either they do nothing, and piss alot of people off because they cant do it, or they do something, and piss alot of people off for making it easier for people without 4HDDs+2SCH to do it while anyone with 4HDDs+2SCH does it easy.

[Fupafighter]

Then dynamis is broken. Abyssea too. Oh and VW. They all have certain job setups that succeed far superior to other setups. It's called strategy. people have been doing it for years now. And the blu's that you parse against must really suck if they can't break 3k CDC with all the gear choices they have for that weaponskill and blu traits and such. My cousin's pld/dnc can break 2.7k CDC on decent challenge mobs. No excuse that a blu couldn't. And why do DD need to have an empy to be good? Sam drg drk don't need an empy to do well in nyzle isle btw. I use draco couse on sam. Drk can use ANY high damage great sword, and dragoon can do well with a TOM polearm. Saying you need to build an empy to do well on those jobs doesn't make sense.

[Milva]

So what you just suggested basically makes it so any random group can clear occasionally, while 2 sch 4 DD clear it 100% of the time then.
Probably for many people reaching their chosen destination (F100) but getting shafted by RNG (no drop) would feel better than getting cut short by RNG in the middle of their run (be it low ??? jumps, 5-lamp orders, no-JA pathos on a floor where you were supposed to reapply Embrava, PDT flan, chariots and gears everywhere, etc).

If you've ever camped Charybdis at 75 - imagine it had en-death 100% on it's meele hits. You could roll double Mambo, full EVA and ride shadow recasts, but no matter what, monsters have a 20% guaranteed hit rate. So you would need luck to either get hit when you have shadow up, or evade when shadows go down. Otherwise Death.
Attempting Neo Nyzul is like fighting en-death Charybdis. Oh, but this one Hundred Fists regurarly. Enjoy.

[Fupafighter]

What?............. No. Man I wish I knew math lol. I should get some of these smart math people to prove you wrong that there is no possible way that a rdm out melee a blu lol. They have better gear options, AND better weaponskill options. It's just not possible. It just means you face mentally challenged blu's.

[Demon6324236]

What?............. No. Man I wish I knew math lol. I should get some of these smart math people to prove you wrong that there is no possible way that a rdm out melee a blu lol. They have better gear options, AND better weaponskill options. It's just not possible. It just means you face mentally challenged blu's.

Ok yes, your right, RDM is worthless shit job that shouldn't even exist, it has no use, and the person who mains RDM knows less about the job than the mighty person who when talking about melee RDM says that you would use Kraken Club or Joytoy with enthunder to do damage. But yes, your right, you know much more than I do, all hail your knowledge.

I did however answer your question however on how to fix it, answer is, they cant, its broken, then entire game and all its events are broken, simple as that, but its probably better to break it and make more people happy than to leave it broken and keep alot of people mad/annoyed. Without removing Embrava & PD, they will either need to make all jobs have something equally as unfair, thus voiding the need for all previous content due to the fact that it would be incredibly easy. Or they have to make Embrava & PD dispelable and most things have to spam dispel so that it cannot be godmode as it is now...

[Fupafighter]

I don't need to be rdm main to know how to play the job. I have friends that rock great sets on red mage. It's just a "lol" job atm. Plain and simple. It's basically a solo job now. You're basically saying I can't read gear sets and play on the test server. Just compare job weaponskill and tp sets and tell me how in the hell a red mage would come close to a blu.

[Llana_Virren]

I don't need to be rdm main to know how to play the job. I have friends that rock great sets on red mage. It's just a "lol" job atm. Plain and simple. It's basically a solo job now. You're basically saying I can't read gear sets and play on the test server. Just compare job weaponskill and tp sets and tell me how in the hell a red mage would come close to a blu.

While I think that you and Demon are both getting way off topic, I'll say this: You don't need to play a job to know how the basics around it work, however it has been consistently proven that in practice, those who switch to a job that they have little real experience in playing (especially in the case of mage jobs), frequently make "nooby" mistakes which, depending on the importance of the event, can mean the difference between success and failure.

However, I do think that if NI is adjusted (with some, if any of my suggestions, it would be possible for RDM or any other job to have a value in NI, the current design makes RDM (and other jobs) obsolete. This is beyond dispute. However, the difference between RDM and many other jobs is not in the damage dealt, but the survivability and endurance of the RDM over a contemporary melee (BLU, similar to RDM, can self-buff and self-heal, which is why I rarely place the two against one another as they are both "mages").... To repeat myself though: the current design makes RDM (and other jobs) obsolete.

That said, if "BLU melee" is the standard by which we measure melee effectiveness, I can point out quite a few DRKs, SAMs, DRGs, and WARs on my server, some of whom have Empies, which would fall short in that comparison. Similarly, I know of at least 3 RDMs who can out-parse BLUs. The conditions are not the same, and if you are comparing the "uberest RDM against the uberest BLU" you might have a case; however, there are many lolDRK, lolSAM, lolDRG, lolWAR, lolDD players who think they "don't need to be XXX main to know how to play the job" and get out-parsed by lolRDM, lolPUP, et al <.<

In summary: Nothing is ever absolute.

[Fupafighter]

You honestly don't know the power of a well geared blu then 0.o. Comparing CDC blu to a CDC rdm is already putting that blu ahead. Then you don't even mention their ability to destroy with skillchain and their quick high damaging spells. All of which make blu a machine compared to rdm. Rdm can nuke, yes, but it is nowhere as effective as a blu. It's biased to say that rdm beats blu based on him being a rdm main. And yes, well geared jobs can beat gimp jobs, that's a fact. Also, I just checked him. Seems he is missing some important pieces in his builds if he wants to be an oober rdm. And why is he complaining about needing to level jobs for events if he has war sam drk AND sch 99. Maaaan gtfo.

[MarkovChain]

I'll settle the discussion. BLU and RDM both suck.

[Llana_Virren]

You honestly don't know the power of a well geared blu then 0.o. Comparing CDC blu to a CDC rdm is already putting that blu ahead. Then you don't even mention their ability to destroy with skillchain and their quick high damaging spells. All of which make blu a machine compared to rdm. Rdm can nuke, yes, but it is nowhere as effective as a blu. It's biased to say that rdm beats blu based on him being a rdm main. And yes, well geared jobs can beat gimp jobs, that's a fact. Also, I just checked him. Seems he is missing some important pieces in his builds if he wants to be an oober rdm. And why is he complaining about needing to level jobs for events if he has war sam drk AND sch 99. Maaaan gtfo.

I do know the power of a well-geared BLU; however I also know that not every WAR, BLU, DRK, SAM, etc out there, even those that are +2 on everything, know how to actually perform at their job, which is why "nothing is ever absolute."

There are BLUs out there that can be out-parsed by RDM, simply because they suck at BLU. I just want to make the point known to you that simply being a BLU, or WAR, or DRK, does not automatically make you good at that job or a better contributor to a NI run.

(I say "you" as a general term, I'm not saying you yourself fall into that category.)

[Demon6324236]

I don't need to be rdm main to know how to play the job. I have friends that rock great sets on red mage. It's just a "lol" job atm. Plain and simple. It's basically a solo job now. You're basically saying I can't read gear sets and play on the test server. Just compare job weaponskill and tp sets and tell me how in the hell a red mage would come close to a blu.


Warning
Please excuse the following if you do not care about my favored optimum builds for RDM & BLU as I see it for TPing & CDCing as that is almost all it will pertain to. I understand this is partially a derailing of this thread and I hope it is understood I only do this to make a point...


Both Jobs Full Time

Main:Almace
Sub:Ephemeron

The reason for this is because they are the weapon in question, and the best TP sub-weapon.


Red Mage


TP Set (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/260962)


Ammo:White Tathlum
Head:Zelus Tiara
Neck:Houyi's Gorget
Earring1:Suppanomimi
Earring2:Brutal Earring
Body:Kudzu Aketon
Hands:Brego Gloves
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Tyrant's Ring
Back:Atheling Mantle
Waist:Goading Belt
Legs:Calmecac Trousers
Feet:Ghadhab Nails


CDC Set (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/260965)


Ammo:Demonry Core
Head:Maat's Cap
Neck:Moepapa Medal
Earring1:Jupiter's Pearl
Earring2:Jupiter's Pearl
Body:Antares Harness
Hands:Alucinor Mitts
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Thundersoul Ring
Back:Aife's Mantle
Waist:Light Belt
Legs:Tumbler Trunks
Feet:Lithe Boots


Blue Mage


TP Set (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/262785)


Ammo:White Tathlum
Head:Ocelomeh Headpiece +1
Neck:Houyi's Gorget
Earring1:Suppanomimi
Earring2:Brutal Earring
Body:Thaumas Coat
Hands:Enif Manopolas
Ring1:Tyrant's Ring
Ring2:Rajas Ring
Back:Atheling Mantle
Waist:Twilight Belt
Legs:Enkidu's Subligar
Feet:Gules Leggings +1


CDC Set (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/262792)


Ammo:Thunder Sachet
Head:Ocelomeh Headpiece +1
Neck:Moepapa Medal
Earring1:Jupiter's Pearl
Earring2:Jupiter's Pearl
Body:Toci's Harness
Hands:Athos's Gloves
Ring1:Rajas Ring
Ring2:Thundersoul Ring
Back:Aife's Mantle
Waist:Light Belt
Legs:Khepri Kecks
Feet:Thaumas Nails


Side By Side Stat Compare


TP Sets


Red Mage|Blue Mage


Defense+169|Defense+202
HP+15|HP+48
MP+15|MP+48
Haste+26%|Haste+25%
Attack+56|Attack+33
Accuracy+7|Accuracy+23
Evasion-5|Evasion+6
STR+20|STR+9
DEX+30|DEX+22
AGI+34|AGI+32
Store TP+25|Store TP+24
Subtle Blow+5|Subtle Blow+10
Double Attack+33%|Double Attack+13%
Triple Attack+2%|Triple Attack+3%
Quad Attack+0%|Quad Attack+3%
Regen+0|Regen+2
Damage Taken+2%|Damage taken+0%
Dual Wield+5%|Dual Wield+5%
Sword Skill+5|Sword Skill+5
Enmity+6|Enmity+5
Other misc. stats do not matter with this gear or this situation as neither job can use them.


CDC Sets

Red Mage|Blue Mage


Defense+148|Defense+220
HP+15|HP+0
MP+50|MP+0
Haste+7%|Haste+10%
Attack+18|Attack+34
Accuracy+16|Accuracy+18
Evasion+8|Evasion+6
STR+12|STR+36
DEX+92|DEX+88
VIT+4|VIT+4
AGI+48|AGI+68
INT+7|INT+7
MND+7|MND+16
CHR+12|CHR+7
Store TP+5|Store TP+5
Subtle Blow+5|Subtle Blow+13
Double Attack+20%|Double Attack+6%
Triple Attack+0%|Triple Attack+3%
Regen+0|Regen+1
Conserve TP+7|Conserve TP+7
Other misc. stats do not matter with this gear or this situation as neither job can use them.


Note:RDM sets are assuming the effects of 500 Enhancing Magic Temper & Gain-DEX are applied to the RDM resulting in +25 DEX & +20% Double Attack, no RDM should be meleeing without these on if using CDC and as such it is added!





Well I compared, they look fairly even to me, neither job seems to truly come out above the other with everything accounted for, if I missed any stats or such please let me know, I would be happy to fix it.

[Demon6324236]

Seems he is missing some important pieces in his builds if he wants to be an oober rdm. Might I point out that I have said many times I want more gear for my RDM? This means there is growth to be made and as such why should you expect to look at me and see all of the dream gear I have in many of the builds I have made? I make them to set myself goals to look forward to and to show friends what I think might be good if they did certain things with their jobs such as my DRK, SAM, SCH, WHM, BLM and now BLU builds I have.


And why is he complaining about needing to level jobs for events if he has war sam drk AND sch 99. Maaaan gtfo.

Leveled does not mean capped skills, with good gear (WAR, SAM and DRK are all in 4/5~5/5+1 with maybe 1~2 pieces +2, SCH is like a 2nd main sharing many of the same pieces of gear with my RDM and has full+2, making it very nice) Emp, Relic, experience, correct merits... If it were as simple as leveling a job and going in yes, those gimps you claim cant win, would win. Its not that simple apparently because you even said it yourself, so yes, I put work into my jobs before I use them. WAR was for red procs, DRK was because I liked the job before I got to 90 and found that I was a gimp for using a Scythe like I had all these years, and SAM because I needed it as a sub for both of the previous jobs, and I liked its TP control, causing me to level it further. I lost interest in these jobs because due to being to spread I was unable to accomplish much on my RDM, as such I ceased working on them nearly as much, along with my many other jobs, and have been focused on RDM.

[Demon6324236]

I'll settle the discussion. BLU and RDM both suck.

I'll settle every argument you get into right now, you have no good opinions on anything outside your own shortsightedness. SCH, RDM, BLU, VW gear, VW Abj gear, so many things suck to you, my idea is maybe its not the gear that sucks, maybe the one judging it.

[Llana_Virren]

stuff

Demon, I agree with you that NI shouldn't be so retardedly configured that RDM is useless (RDM mage or melee); however I can tell you that any BLU worth his salt will blow RDM out of the water. Sorry to break it to you.

[Fupafighter]

Ok so you gave that blu a shit tp and ws set. Good comparison moron lol. 1. If you really want to see a good TP set for blu, check this http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/29072/advice-tp-99/ . The best set provides 33 str + w.e thaumas x3 gives, 29 dex, 25% haste, 29 acc, 25% double attack, 6% triple, 3% quad, +60 attack, -5% DW. That's a blu TP set if you wanna compare actual good sets that are not that hard to get, also offhand of str sword, because good blu offhand str. As for weaponskill sets, WTF. WS set should be DEX 72, 55 str, 5% critical hit rate, 18% double attack, 6% triple attack, +94 attack, 30 acc, and tp bonus +25. Don't forget about the traits active for blu mage, and there ability to SC off their CDC. Go check out this http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/30626/the-beast-within-a-guide-to-blue-mage too if you want to be ignorant and not understand gear sets. That was complete fail of an attempt to make me look stupid. You know nothing about blu. Also I was too lazy to count the set bonus from 3/5 and 2/5 thaumas on both sets.

[Demon6324236]

Ok so you gave that blu a shit tp and ws set. Good comparison moron lol. 1. If you really want to see a good TP set for blu, check this http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/29072/advice-tp-99/ . The best set provides 33 str + w.e thaumas x3 gives, 29 dex, 25% haste, 29 acc, 25% double attack, 6% triple, 3% quad, +60 attack, -5% DW. That's a blu TP set if you wanna compare actual good sets that are not that hard to get, also offhand of str sword, because good blu offhand str. As for weaponskill sets, WTF. WS set should be DEX 72, 55 str, 5% critical hit rate, 18% double attack, 6% triple attack, +94 attack, 30 acc, and tp bonus +25. Don't forget about the traits active for blu mage, and there ability to SC off their CDC. Go check out this http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/30626/the-beast-within-a-guide-to-blue-mage too if you want to be ignorant and not understand gear sets. That was complete fail of an attempt to make me look stupid. You know nothing about blu. Also I was too lazy to count the set bonus from 3/5 and 2/5 thaumas on both sets.

You want to know something? I don't really know all to much about BLU, another of those jobs I leveled for procs, and you know what? You know nothing about RDM so shut up. :D

[Fupafighter]

Might I point out that I have said many times I want more gear for my RDM? This means there is growth to be made and as such why should you expect to look at me and see all of the dream gear I have in many of the builds I have made? I make them to set myself goals to look forward to and to show friends what I think might be good if they did certain things with their jobs such as my DRK, SAM, SCH, WHM, BLM and now BLU builds I have.




Leveled does not mean capped skills, with good gear (WAR, SAM and DRK are all in 4/5~5/5+1 with maybe 1~2 pieces +2, SCH is like a 2nd main sharing many of the same pieces of gear with my RDM and has full+2, making it very nice) Emp, Relic, experience, correct merits... If it were as simple as leveling a job and going in yes, those gimps you claim cant win, would win. Its not that simple apparently because you even said it yourself, so yes, I put work into my jobs before I use them. WAR was for red procs, DRK was because I liked the job before I got to 90 and found that I was a gimp for using a Scythe like I had all these years, and SAM because I needed it as a sub for both of the previous jobs, and I liked its TP control, causing me to level it further. I lost interest in these jobs because due to being to spread I was unable to accomplish much on my RDM, as such I ceased working on them nearly as much, along with my many other jobs, and have been focused on RDM.
So 1. You could make a 500 enhancing magic sch with little effort at the moment, but choose to not because you want nyzle isle gear and such for your red mage. You could just finish sch and make static, and walla PROFIT, then go do w.e on your sch. 2. You said yourself leveling a job for any event is stupid, but yet you leveled warrior to proc red....hmmmmmm
It seriously would offset you by one week to gear your sch sam or drk well and then you can enter neo nyzle with a good group eventually. Just do it man. You keep making excuses.

[Fupafighter]

You want to know something? I don't really know all to much about BLU, another of those jobs I leveled for procs, and you know what? You know nothing about RDM so shut up. :D

Obviously I do know alot about red mage, you know I played it very well at 90 cap, I read and take advice from others on how to play it to. You threw out a shit weaponskill and tp set to make blu look bad, but seriously gule leggings +1? You didn't even math your tp set for blu properly. Enkidu sublingar? Really? Blu is miles ahead of Rdm in terms of WS and melee damage. FACT. Proven. GO read up prothescar's thread on ffxiah.com. Then come talk about blu man.

[Demon6324236]

Demon, I agree with you that NI shouldn't be so retardedly configured that RDM is useless (RDM mage or melee); however I can tell you that any BLU worth his salt will blow RDM out of the water. Sorry to break it to you.

Using magic I will agree, BLU magic is highly powerful and RDM has no way to come close to competing with it, melee I will disagree saying they are about equal, simply how I see it.

Honestly in any case you look at it its funny how they did it because BLU & SCH are the reasons why RDM is looked down on and obsolete as much as it is, SCH took everything from White & Black magic being on 1 job, and BLU took everything that is the hybrid-melee mage, including its gear.

Either way as it was said this is getting off topic, I was simply trying to explain how RDM could be of use in NNI, and also explained that due to buffing it would be impossible anyways. I might as well stop talking on here because it seems like 90% of the community is ignorant dickheads with the inability to see any point of view apart from their own.

[Fupafighter]

Demon, I agree with you that NI shouldn't be so retardedly configured that RDM is useless (RDM mage or melee); however I can tell you that any BLU worth his salt will blow RDM out of the water. Sorry to break it to you.

The problem is that he doesn't know job roles. He is trying to force a job that isn't efficient at something, into a role that the game no longer accepts as relevant. It's kind of like apoc drk's thinking they're badass, when all the +2 dark running around with resolution are staring at him going "Really?".

[Fupafighter]

Using magic I will agree, BLU magic is highly powerful and RDM has no way to come close to competing with it, melee I will disagree saying they are about equal, simply how I see it.

Honestly in any case you look at it its funny how they did it because BLU & SCH are the reasons why RDM is looked down on and obsolete as much as it is, SCH took everything from White & Black magic being on 1 job, and BLU took everything that is the hybrid-melee mage, including its gear.

Either way as it was said this is getting off topic, I was simply trying to explain how RDM could be of use in NNI, and also explained that due to buffing it would be impossible anyways. I might as well stop talking on here because it seems like 90% of the community is ignorant dickheads with the inability to see any point of view apart from their own.

Ignorant? We understand job roles, how does that make us ignorant? I was stating facts, and you became biased and angry with me.

[Llana_Virren]

The problem is that he doesn't know job roles. He is trying to force a job that isn't efficient at something, into a role that the game no longer accepts as relevant. It's kind of like apoc drk's thinking they're badass, when all the +2 dark running around with resolution are staring at him going "Really?".

In all fairness, SE has stated that they want(ed) RDM to be considered as a capable fighter class. They just don't know how to do it.

[Fupafighter]

In all fairness, SE has stated that they want(ed) RDM to be considered as a capable fighter class. They just don't know how to do it.
The point is, is that it's not. Until it is changed, he cannot keep throwing out there that the BEST AVAILABLE geared rdm could even beat a 90 almace blu. It just won't happen unless that blu honestly doesn't know his job. That still doesn't make rdm better because he outparsed a few fail blu. I would take a gimp blu over a godly rdm anyday, because as long as that blu is competent, he can make well use of the job, while rdm cna only do so much.

[Demon6324236]

Obviously I do know alot about red mage, you know I played it very well at 90 cap, I read and take advice from others on how to play it to. You threw out a shit weaponskill and tp set to make blu look bad, but seriously gule leggings +1? You didn't even math your tp set for blu properly. Enkidu sublingar? Really? Blu is miles ahead of Rdm in terms of WS and melee damage. FACT. Proven. GO read up prothescar's thread on ffxiah.com. Then come talk about blu man.

No, I made a set that literally took me 20 or so minutes to make off of the AH.com search feature out of the laziness of trying to prove a point in a fit of anger due to the fact of how the only job I care to play on this game is looked at by everyone. I had no want to make a bad set, I made a fast quickly made set, as you pointed out, Gule leggings +1, put that for STP, simple enough, math my TP? Nope, would take to long for me to care at the time.



As for you knowing alot about RDM, I cant say, you played it but my question is how did you play it? Solo? All around? Mage? It makes a difference, many RDMs seem to think they are SCHs, using nothing but staves and running around only casting magic, a SCH will do better at casting magic alone any day. I do it all, I have sets that reflect this and use them all, melee is the main thing I drive to make stand out because everyone ignores it and yet its all that makes RDM worth existing in the 1st place, otherwise they might as well delete RDM and just have SCH learn Phalanx and all that. If you were mainly soloing then chances are you were stacking PDT/MDT even in TP sets because you will be tanking & DDing obviously, meaning your damage would be low and it might be why you expect it. If you were building your RDM also allow DD, especially at 90 when abyssea was still the only thing to really do for that level... Then I'm not sure how your numbers were not good enough for you to see RDM is not as bad as you make it out to be. My guess is you are saying RDM is bad because you probably had no use of DD methods or due to the fact that at 90 RDM was still very restricted in melee gear. Since Bregos, Rubeus, Morta's bodys, and the like, RDM has gotten many options in both STP & Haste which allow the job to DD much better than before. I'm sure my set I have is still lacking even with all the gear due to STP & open possibilitys that I don't know about, even the new gear from yesterday could hold some amazing items for it. As for reading another thread I have no want or need, I'm done talking about Red vs Blue, pointless topic, no one cares what I have to say anyways so if I were to go spend a few hours reading it and come back I would be told I didn't understand, or I'm stupid, some other thing that means you have no want to read my words. I tend to read forums only and stay out of talking in them for this fact, its funny to watch people time to time when they try to argue a point and are squished by others who don't care, being in this position, I honestly don't care what you say anymore, Ill believe what I wish and you will do the same for you.

People disagree with me about NNI apparently, I said the facts, Embrava & PD broke and are breaking the game and its content because it all must be built with the idea they will be used to make it easy, thus it must be hard with them and damn near impossible without them, can someone tell me how this is wrong? I think SE just learned from the mistake that was the final limit break and the joke that AV has become, the player base can use Embrava & PD to make any fight easy because they are over powered, to remove them would take alot of balancing of the events again because they have to redesign them without Embrava or PD in mind, if they nerf it they have the same problem on a smaller scale. If they removed them the player base would also rage, SCHs would complain the time they took to get their Enhancing gear, SMNs would complain they have no place in the world anymore, and things go bad, SE is in a corner. With NNI they have 2 real options, option A piss off the people that like it how it is, luck based on floors with skill slightly altering the ratio of how much luck you actually need. And option B is they can piss off the people wanting it changed to be more fair to the majority of the player based and keep the game enjoyable rather than a chore to obtain items. Either way they go they shoot themselves in the foot, and Option C is remove/nerf PD & Embrava which would cause an uproar & require enough time balancing content that we would likely see much of our content pushed back or canceled due to cleaning up this mess.

[Demon6324236]

Ignorant? We understand job roles, how does that make us ignorant? I was stating facts, and you became biased and angry with me.

(Well as it stands RDM has no role, so I'm not sure what you were arguing even...)

I was meaning overall most on this forum I have talked to at all, people seem to ignore my ideas on how tickets/cells could have not been stupid, ignore my points on NNI, it is luck based much to much for instance, something people don't seem to grasp because they think its an ok thing but really its not, its a gamble at best.

I would be more content with doing a run where it puts you in and you clear as many floors as you can, no random jumps, just clear as many as fast as you can. When you end it would give you a rating and a timer, once the timer ends you get to select 1 piece of gear from the group you were ranked in. For instance, if your group clears 1~5 floors, you get a NQ piece, 6~10 is a +1, 11~15 is +2, 16~20 is +3, and 21+ is HQ, time till you can get your reward is based on the amount of extra floors you completed, for instance, from floor 1 you only clear upto floor 2, thats 2 floors, meaning you get a NQ item, now standard time would be 5 next Japanese Midnights, for every floor you pass extra past the goal for the tier of gear, you wait 1 less day, in this case being floor 2, you made it 1 past the goal of 1, so you wait 4 days, not 5. If you get 26 floors you will still only get it in 1 JM, not instantly or time traveling weapons. Until you obtain your gear you may not do another run of NNI, if you do then you forfeit your previous runs rewards, so if you get a +3 item and you do not want it, only HQs, then you can run again right after to attempt to improve, this would still take tags as normal so there will always be a wait time as well.

[Fupafighter]

The option isn't to break the event, the option is to balance the jobs better. Sure 2 sch will still be needed, but atleast more options could go. The reason 2 handers are favored, is because of the high damage weaponskills, and the greater effect haste has compared to 1 handers. And also don't gear a 1 hander toward store tp after haste is factored in. X hits don't really exist on 1 handers. I am a DD on all levels of the game. I don't play mage jobs, the reason I didn't enjoy red mage. The fact that I'm pure DD alone should let you know that ofcourse I geared rdm for melee. It just wasn't efficient. The job didn't offer much since 80 cap even. Glad you can enjoy the job, but it's not close to what it used to be. It can solo, but it doesn't really have it's place anymore. Even with the addition of almace, red mage doesn't really gain much because they don't have the gearsets to utilize it efficiently compared to other jobs that get almace. I mean seriously a PLD could offer 3x as much for neo nyzle as a red mage man. It sucks, but it's the truth. Breaking the event won't help.

[Demon6324236]

So 1. You could make a 500 enhancing magic sch with little effort at the moment, but choose to not because you want nyzle isle gear and such for your red mage. You could just finish sch and make static, and walla PROFIT, then go do w.e on your sch. 2. You said yourself leveling a job for any event is stupid, but yet you leveled warrior to proc red....hmmmmmm
It seriously would offset you by one week to gear your sch sam or drk well and then you can enter neo nyzle with a good group eventually. Just do it man. You keep making excuses.

I actually have a Nyzul static I go with 1~2 times a week and went tonight, we made it to 96 which is best so far, I am working on Enhancing magic for my SCH as well which is why I bothered to even get Rubeus boots (outside of /NIN capped shadow fastcast) right now. As for leveling a job for an event I speak it because its how I feel, I got my WAR leveled and geared well enough with skills to do red procs just for the reason of my Almace in general and to help my ls. Abyssea is much wider and open along with much more done and blah blah blah, I have been through it and hated it. You cant change the past, but you can try to change the future, I did what I did for Almace, I disagree with the fact I had to do it, and so I will try to change it with my ideas for future events. As for gearing a heavy DD, I probably will give in sometime when I'm tired of coming up with ideas how this content can be explained and possibly fixed, until then I will probably cling to hope some people in the Dev team see my point of view and how these fixes could work.

[Fupafighter]

My statics first run make it to 96 our first run. My suggestion is tell your DD to fulltime powder boots and only sneak invis on lamp floors. No need to sneak invis when you have a 100+ regen 5. Seriously just grind it out though. It will be worth it. We made alot of mistakes our first run and we made it to 96. I expect 100 this next run. If you want to see how to gear sam, you can check my gearsets. The draca couse setup is insane on fodder mobs. 3k-5k+ spikes. It sucks that there aren't much job choices, but having other jobs are still fun. All my sets are easily achievable given a little bit of effort and time. Seriously nothing in my sets really requires luck to get. You just have to keep in mind that breaking the event would make this SUPERIOR armor too easy to get for the majority of us who are willing to aim for the standard setups. It's fair for people to achieve even a 5% win rate on this event, because it is well worth the wait.

[Demon6324236]

The option isn't to break the event, the option is to balance the jobs better. Sure 2 sch will still be needed, but atleast more options could go. The reason 2 handers are favored, is because of the high damage weaponskills, and the greater effect haste has compared to 1 handers. And also don't gear a 1 hander toward store tp after haste is factored in. X hits don't really exist on 1 handers. I am a DD on all levels of the game. I don't play mage jobs, the reason I didn't enjoy red mage. The fact that I'm pure DD alone should let you know that ofcourse I geared rdm for melee. It just wasn't efficient. The job didn't offer much since 80 cap even. Glad you can enjoy the job, but it's not close to what it used to be. It can solo, but it doesn't really have it's place anymore. Even with the addition of almace, red mage doesn't really gain much because they don't have the gearsets to utilize it efficiently compared to other jobs that get almace. I mean seriously a PLD could offer 3x as much for neo nyzle as a red mage man. It sucks, but it's the truth. Breaking the event won't help.

I completely understand the limits of RDMs gear, Haste & STP wise it has grown, WS wise... I think the fact the best RDM CDC body or head are Maat's, and a body from back in Aht days says something... PLD at least gets Twilight for great attack & +stats to help it. In either case I'm not saying to break it, I'm saying its broken, either way its looked at, it relies on Embrava because it must, which breaks it, and if it didn't plan for Embrava to be used, it would also be broken by Embrava, in either case it is broken, its simply a look at its present state and its other possible state, some want 1 way and others want the 2nd, in either case I will see it as broken with or without others agreeing, my point of view on it, thats all.

[Fupafighter]

Honestly I like the idea of having a sch embrava. It's seriously the same as having a cor and brd buff you for an event. That's the way I see it. It's in the game, it's not a cheat, and who doesn't enjoy running around calling shit out smashing fodder mobs for 4k damage and swinging so fast. Alot of people I know would agree that it's fun stuff. It's based on luck, but do people seriously not enjoy this event?

[Llana_Virren]

Honestly I like the idea of having a sch embrava. It's seriously the same as having a cor and brd buff you for an event. That's the way I see it. It's in the game, it's not a cheat, and who doesn't enjoy running around calling shit out smashing fodder mobs for 4k damage and swinging so fast. Alot of people I know would agree that it's fun stuff. It's based on luck, but do people seriously not enjoy this event?

For some, the "I can do 4k dmg and I'm so leet" rush wears off after you continue to get jerked around by luck (or the lack thereof).

There's nothing against Embrava, or even Embrava x2. But any event which forces players to -rely- on it for success is broken. That's the issue.

[Demon6324236]

Honestly I like the idea of having a sch embrava. It's seriously the same as having a cor and brd buff you for an event. That's the way I see it. It's in the game, it's not a cheat, and who doesn't enjoy running around calling shit out smashing fodder mobs for 4k damage and swinging so fast. Alot of people I know would agree that it's fun stuff. It's based on luck, but do people seriously not enjoy this event?

Myself, no, its nice, but honestly being the SCH myself, its boring as hell, especialy because of the regen, I mean, I dont want my friends to die, but at least it would give me something to do :P as for now I run around and follow them just watching them kill things, then move on to kill more things, and more things, occationaly stop at a lamp and wait to hit it. DDing Im sure isnt to bad because you get to hit & kill shit, thats fun, walking around with your army of new-born demi-gods you helped create isnt as fun, cool to watch the 1st few times I admit.

SCH having Embrava isnt bad by any means but it is at the same time fairly... unbalanced, in my opinion, I mean you can seriously make anything that stands in your path die without much effort due to your demi-god army, I watched A Moogle Kupo d'Etat's final fight go up in flames due to it, my friend was way over preped, we went in with SCH DRK SMN & some other 3 jobs I couldnt be bothered to remember, I used basiclly everything I could with SCH/RDM & Assession buffing them to the teeth, in the end, Perfect Defense was used and the fight ended less than 10 seconds later, before he was unable to do anything more than aggro they had all used WSs enough it went to 30%HP, between capped haste and their 7TP/Tick he never moved other than to hit the floor in pain and aggony. As fun as it is I will say Embrava is unbalanced because how everything because so easy with it, and its the ultimate zergers tool. Perfect defense is much the same way, with a ripoff of Invincible that works slightly different but lasts almost 2~3 times as long, it kinda shows just how bad PLD has died out.

[Demon6324236]

For some, the "I can do 4k dmg and I'm so leet" rush wears off after you continue to get jerked around by luck (or the lack thereof).

There's nothing against Embrava, or even Embrava x2. But any event which forces players to -rely- on it for success is broken. That's the issue.

This is true but it goes back to what I'm saying, if you must have its broken, and if you do not have to have it, its equally as broken, if tomorrow they changed it in an update that they were making all these changes that would make it possible without Embrava, the underline problem stays, with Embrava now, its doable, without it, its insane. In that NNI it would be doable without it, but with Embrava it would become insanely easy. Either way you tip the scale it becomes a problem, and thats why as much as there should be a way around it, its kinda unavoidable.

All new events will face this problem I think, as I said, Odin2.0 will end up being 1 of 2 ways I think. Either its to hard at 1st and people complain (I think this happened with Legion, not sure but think it was the case) or 2, its to easy, people with 12DDs, 3SMN, 1COR, 1SCH, and 1BRD, will beat it then share the experience, and it will be the final limit break all over again, a bunch of PD/Embrava zergs to kill the NM we are to lazy to fight traditionally and rather kill in 30seconds and be done. And until yesterday I didn't fully understand the new Limbus would suck, I was thinking new Limbus would be like old, but with new monsters, I was looking forward to seeing the 1st 2nd & 3rd floors having something like Harpys, or Mantis, new beastmen floors including something like Aht beastmen, but instead its just a buy a chip, go fight Arch-thingy, the end.

[hiko]

Probably for many people reaching their chosen destination (F100) but getting shafted by RNG (no drop) would feel better than getting cut short by RNG in the middle of their run (be it low ??? jumps, 5-lamp orders, no-JA pathos on a floor where you were supposed to reapply Embrava, PDT flan, chariots and gears everywhere, etc).

IMO reaching target floor (80) 25times everybody in group getting wanted item +some decent gear (probably lot better than what you have) is way better than reaching target floor(100) with 2%*n/15 drop rate (n= number of item you want/need)


If you've ever camped Charybdis at 75 - imagine it had en-death 100% on it's meele hits. You could roll double Mambo, full EVA and ride shadow recasts, but no matter what, monsters have a 20% guaranteed hit rate. So you would need luck to either get hit when you have shadow up, or evade when shadows go down. Otherwise Death.
Attempting Neo Nyzul is like fighting en-death Charybdis. Oh, but this one Hundred Fists regurarly. Enjoy.
lol.
rdm solo/duo grav/bind nuke never get hit
zerg: DD(/nin if want extra security)*4 rdm/drk sch: embrava +para+ CS stun .

so you're saying NIUR is easy as long as you don't suck?


I think luck factor is too high, but don't want SE to nerf it so every party of 6 average PU player can defeat it regulary

[Neisan_Quetz]

Doesn't it take ~year of hitting 80 to finish all 3 sets? You could probably hit 100 more often in the same time frame, depending on "luck". Probably what SE wants tbh.

[hiko]

Doesn't it take ~year of hitting 80 to finish all 3 sets? You could probably hit 100 more often in the same time frame, depending on "luck". Probably what SE wants tbh.

- going the 80way is for people who think 100 is impossible.
- how long would it take if NIUR turned into "easy win/crappy drop rate"?
- don't know any group not duping who got 15 salvage gear *6 in one year

[Spiritreaver]

For some, the "I can do 4k dmg and I'm so leet" rush wears off after you continue to get jerked around by luck (or the lack thereof).

There's nothing against Embrava, or even Embrava x2. But any event which forces players to -rely- on it for success is broken. That's the issue.

Well said and i just wanted to state something that i'm sure some ppl that don't have SCH or have not been around a SCH know.


Embrava is part of SCH's 2hr ability.


Been following this thread a while now and just didn't want that tidbit lost in all the back and forth.

[Llana_Virren]

the underline problem stays, with Embrava now, its doable, without it, its insane. In that NNI it would be doable without it, but with Embrava it would become insanely easy.

The thing is, if proper changes are made to it, Embrava will not make it any easier that it is now. You guys need to understand that no one here is suggesting it be easier. We are saying the difficulty should be in the skill employed by players, not in the luck used in behind-the-scenes scripting.

You also need to understand that, unless SCH 2hr is adjusted, or Embrava is adjusted, any change made will obviously affect a SCHx2 setup as well. However, it is more important to fix a broken event, than it is to keep it broken for the sake of making it easier for those players who always do a hack+mod+schx2 setup.

The only reason to not fix NI is so that e-peens don't go flaccid. An honest, impartial assessment of the event can loan you no other perspective than that the event is broken as is, and needs to be adjusted.

[Fupafighter]

So make the gear accessable to even the unprepared groups when the armor is the best in the game. That doesn't make sense. Yes, it should become more accessable to groups that don't have the normal sch x2 4 heady DD setup, but making it so any average group can clear the content with any setup seems a little ridiculously easy.... They would be forced to nerf the drop rates and make the 100% drop on 100 not exist. The idea of needing 2 sch embrava actually makes alot of people excited about the event. I bet 95% of you won't even try with different setups. 2 sch, any great DD can manage to make 100, it's just the 4 heavy DD will succeed more often. Give it a try. If you aren't willing to level sch, make a static and be a DD. Atleast try people.

[Llana_Virren]

So make the gear accessable to even the unprepared groups when the armor is the best in the game. That doesn't make sense. Yes, it should become more accessable to groups that don't have the normal sch x2 4 heady DD setup, but making it so any average group can clear the content with any setup seems a little ridiculously easy.... They would be forced to nerf the drop rates and make the 100% drop on 100 not exist. The idea of needing 2 sch embrava actually makes alot of people excited about the event. I bet 95% of you won't even try with different setups. 2 sch, any great DD can manage to make 100, it's just the 4 heavy DD will succeed more often. Give it a try. If you aren't willing to level sch, make a static and be a DD. Atleast try people.

Quit trolling and learn2read, fupa. No one is saying make it so unprepared groups can win. No one is complaining about the difficulty. We are complaining that, as of right now, only SCHx2, DDx4 setups have a realistic hope to win. That is a fact and it is also a problem. As one of the 2 SCHs in my static I can tell you, an Embrava is broken, and needing it x2 per event is even more broken. This is akin to the RNG-burns, SMN-burns, and Manaburns of the past, which were all "cheap tickets" to circumvent an otherwise difficult fight.

The difference here is that SCHx2,DDx4 isn't an "easy ticket" ... it's the only way to have a chance. If you can't see that, you really don't need to tell other people to give it a try. We have and we are not pacified by the "ooh look at my Embrava'd damage output" candy.

[Fupafighter]

Not trolling. Think about it. You give groups the ability to go with say blu dnc nin pup thf rdm as a setup, that would mean that groups with sch x2 4 heavy DD would clear the content so damn easy that the event would last 15 days for them, TO GET THE BEST GEAR IN THE GAME. They would be forced to basically make the DROP RATE on floor 100 gear abysmal, and remove the guarenteed drop. What do you suggest they do. No duh it's dumb that you need 2 people's 2 hours to beat an event, but the question is, wtf do you want them to do? I'm seeing plently of people in neo nyzle gear now, and this update they did was amazing, but yet people still trash on the event. Calling me a troll when you are offering no input, except what 100 other people have said is kind of pointless.

[Llana_Virren]

Not trolling. Think about it. You give groups the ability to go with say blu dnc nin pup thf rdm as a setup, that would mean that groups with sch x2 4 heavy DD would clear the content so damn easy that the event would last 15 days for them, TO GET THE BEST GEAR IN THE GAME. They would be forced to basically make the DROP RATE on floor 100 gear abysmal, and remove the guarenteed drop. What do you suggest they do. No duh it's dumb that you need 2 people's 2 hours to beat an event, but the question is, wtf do you want them to do? I'm seeing plently of people in neo nyzle gear now, and this update they did was amazing, but yet people still trash on the event. Calling me a troll when you are offering no input, except what 100 other people have said is kind of pointless.

Here's the problem, you're not thinkinig about it. "Calling me a troll when you are offering no input, except what 100 other people have said" should tell you that it's a shared opinion, and I have provided input on how to make the event better without allowing "any throw-together" group to complete it. The problem is you see no problem with "SCHx2/DDx4" so showing you anything otherwise will be beside the point.

For example: Stopping the time between floors will not make it easier for throw-together, gimped groups to complete the content. Why? Because they still have to complete each floor, and without an optimal setup, this will take more time. The difference is they'd be able to time out at floor 40 instead of floor 16.

My suggestions would not let any gimp group complete floor 100 all the time. But any group should have at least a 5% success rate. Uber superkupopowerz groups should have a higher success rate. But to just sit back and say "SCHx2/DDx4... problem? U mad?" is not the way to go about discussing this event.

I've offered suggestions on how to improve NI without letting any ol' gimp party beat it; you just don't want any changes made to it, but that doesn't mean that I haven't offered any input, when I have, repeatedly, and none of my suggestions have been given any legitimate flack.

[Fupafighter]

And you're not listening to me. I've heard every suggestion, and my opinion just gets thrown aside because you all want it more "skill based", when that will accomplish nothing but make it too easy. Plain and simple, making it easier for the 25% of the people not succeeding or willing to do this event due to their setups, will ultimately make it way too easy for the 75% of us that don't have a problem with it, and do the current setups. Hell mnk blu dnc rng can be thrown in this event mix, giving it 10/20 of the options for the event. That's still alot more than dyna allows to do it efficiently. The fact that you need 2 sch is BS, but fixing the event will just mean people will still bring sch to guarentee wins. That's not what SE wants. They want this to take time. They want you to level a job that supports their setups.

[Llana_Virren]

Plain and simple, making it easier for the 25% of the people not succeeding or willing to do this event due to their setups, will ultimately make it way too easy for the 75% of us that don't have a problem with it.

Switch your percentages around, there's more than 50% of those who want to or regularly do NII that do not like the current setup. Secondly, and more imprtantly, making it more "skill based" does not make it easier for everyone, and will not make SCHx2 any more of a guarantee than it already is.

You're assuming an across-the-board "easy button" which is not even close to what has been recommended here.

[Fupafighter]

K have your easy mode. That's the only way people will be happy. Do the event for 15 days, and then bitch about how there's nothing to accomplish anymore. Sounds... fun. Apparently no'one likes the grind or effort involved in this game anymore. Here's a fact, only the unskilled and unwilling bitch about stuff not being obtainable on these forums. You're in a static bitching about the event being too luck based, when you JUST said that 2 SCH is a guaranteed win. Why do you care? How would it not make it easy mode? These SCH groups usually don't make 100, because they get stuck on 90-95 because of bad floors, or time out on the boss. Give these groups a lobby for temps, a different easier lamp system, stopping time between floors, adding random 30 second to 1 minute TE. That would make the event freakin 100% win rate basically for all these good groups, unless they get completely shanked on floors (example we got to 96, and the floor was all enemies with king artho and 2 other NMs among 15 other monsters on the floor, all spread out). Flat out, if you don't have a form of haste cap or regain, you will not win this event. Even if you didn't need 2 sch, they would have to take out stuff like lamps, high HP Nms. If you threw in a cor and brd instead of 2 sch, you could possibly win this event you know. Cor help DD and do rolls like bolters/regain and brd with say daurdabla buffing your pty with 3 songs. It's amazing how people aren't even trying different setups, you just all assume it's impossible without 2 sch. Sure your win rate would be alot less with brd cor, but you would still occasionally win. The point is, you can win without 2 sch.

[Llana_Virren]

K have your easy mode. That's the only way people will be happy. Do the event for 15 days, and then bitch about how there's nothing to accomplish anymore. Sounds... fun. Apparently no'one likes the grind or effort involved in this game anymore. Here's a fact, only the unskilled and unwilling bitch about stuff not being obtainable on these forums. You're in a static bitching about the event being too luck based, when you JUST said that 2 SCH is a guaranteed win. Why do you care? How would it not make it easy mode? These SCH groups usually don't make 100, because they get stuck on 90-95 because of bad floors, or time out on the boss. Give these groups a lobby for temps, a different easier lamp system, stopping time between floors, adding random 30 second to 1 minute TE. That would make the event freakin 100% win rate basically for all these good groups, unless they get completely shanked on floors (example we got to 96, and the floor was all enemies with king artho and 2 other NMs among 15 other monsters on the floor, all spread out). Flat out, if you don't have a form of haste cap or regain, you will not win this event. Even if you didn't need 2 sch, they would have to take out stuff like lamps, high HP Nms. If you threw in a cor and brd instead of 2 sch, you could possibly win this event you know. Cor help DD and do rolls like bolters/regain and brd with say daurdabla buffing your pty with 3 songs. It's amazing how people aren't even trying different setups, you just all assume it's impossible without 2 sch. Sure your win rate would be alot less with brd cor, but you would still occasionally win. The point is, you can win without 2 sch.

I am saying that the SCHx2/DDx4 is the only real way to have a chance at the event, not that it is a guaranteed win. As of right now, going with anything less than SCHx2 is just not worth it. But of course, you don't see that. You'd rather have a grind based on luck. A lot of people don't care for luck because luck is the reason why gimp groups can succeed. Of course, if it was skill based, then a lot of these "+2 groups" might start to struggle, and we can't have that!

[Fupafighter]

"Is just not worth it" is an opinion that should not be thrown around. It's "just not worth it to make this relic because it would take me 3 months", "It's just not worth it to make this mythic, because it would take me a year", "It's just not worth it to do nyzle isle uncharted because my win rate would be abysmal", "It's just not worth it to do voidwatch because the drop rates are so low". Get my point? It's opinion on whether or not an event is worth it. If people want the gear that bad, they will do something about it, if not, they don't deserve it. I wanna see video's of people SKILLED AND GEARED try with different setups. I honestly haven't even heard of brd or cor in the event in replacement of sch or other job setups. Basically everyone just says you cannot win without 2 sch.

[Llana_Virren]

"Is just not worth it" is an opinion that should not be thrown around. It's "just not worth it to make this relic because it would take me 3 months", "It's just not worth it to make this mythic, because it would take me a year", "It's just not worth it to do nyzle isle uncharted because my win rate would be abysmal", "It's just not worth it to do voidwatch because the drop rates are so low". Get my point? It's opinion on whether or not an event is worth it. If people want the gear that bad, they will do something about it, if not, they don't deserve it. I wanna see video's of people SKILLED AND GEARED try with different setups. I honestly haven't even heard of brd or cor in the event in replacement of sch or other job setups. Basically everyone just says you cannot win without 2 sch.

People have been asking for vid of the "skilled and geared" try it without using mods and hacks, and we're still waiting on those vids too....

[Dreamin]

People have been asking for vid of the "skilled and geared" try it without using mods and hacks, and we're still waiting on those vids too....

You're talking to a wall up there. Trying to convince those ppl who employs the use of 3rd pt tools to win that their SKILL is mostly from their tools and their tools are lowering the LUCK factor is useless. They dont get it and they still thinks they're SKILLed.

Tanaka likes LUCK over SKILL, that's a fact. That's what the Rep has already told us in other thread. What amazing to me is that Tanaka doesn't understands that for those folks that are willing to use 3rd party TOOLS are lowering the dependency of LUCK and the Reps here are clearly hearing it since some ppl here has already admited to be using tools and they're not doing a damn thing about it.

[Camiie]

K have your easy mode. That's the only way people will be happy. Do the event for 15 days, and then bitch about how there's nothing to accomplish anymore.

The problem is there's nothing to accomplish NOW. Sadly, 15 days worth of content would be an improvement. Look they had a good system with the old Nyzul, and all they had to do was keep that same idea. They decided to go with something that only works for a very small number of people and that left everyone else extremely disappointed, because we kind of expected something for everyone. Admittedly, with Tanaka in charge, we should have expected exactly what we got, but some of us still have a little hope left that bubbles to the surface occasionally.


Sounds... fun. Apparently no one likes the grind or effort involved in this game anymore.

Not the way Tanaka does it, no. I don't mind grinding my way to the top of the tower. I don't mind spending time and effort. I don't like 3, 4, or 5 layers of random between me and my goals. They actually came up with a worse system than the simple low-drop rates of ye olden days which is quite a feat. They may as well rename the event Tanaka's Revenge. "Oh you don't like low drop rates? OK! 100% drop rates, but I'm going to royally screw you on the way up... hard! TAKE THAT! MUHAHAHAHA!"

[Aldersyde]

"Is just not worth it" is an opinion that should not be thrown around. It's "just not worth it to make this relic because it would take me 3 months", "It's just not worth it to make this mythic, because it would take me a year", "It's just not worth it to do nyzle isle uncharted because my win rate would be abysmal", "It's just not worth it to do voidwatch because the drop rates are so low". Get my point? It's opinion on whether or not an event is worth it. If people want the gear that bad, they will do something about it, if not, they don't deserve it. I wanna see video's of people SKILLED AND GEARED try with different setups. I honestly haven't even heard of brd or cor in the event in replacement of sch or other job setups. Basically everyone just says you cannot win without 2 sch.

That is not what he/she means by not worth it. You knew very well that the players who are in the know on how to win the event will only go with a 2 sch setup. Go stand in PJ and shout to make NNI static or do a pickup with brd and cor as your support and see how many of the DDs you need will actually join. Lead the way man! I'm pretty sure you won't get far. The DDs worth their salt will openly laugh at you and the DDs that will join will do so because they have no real knowledge of the event. Once people get it in their heads that there's only one way to do things, they'll do it that one way and no other. You should know this. Stop being obtuse.

I would be personally willing to try it another way but I know right now there's people in my own ls and on my friend list that would not join if I tried to it that way. That's the nature of the beast.

[Fupafighter]

1. I have a static. 2. No'one that I know of has tried it, and I'm sure people will try it mainly because 75% of siren doesn't even know neo nyzle exists. People just gave it a bad rep on day 1 because they couldn't reach 100... Why not try for like say a week and then trash on the setup lol?.......

[Llana_Virren]

1. I have a static. 2. No'one that I know of has tried it, and I'm sure people will try it mainly because 75% of siren doesn't even know neo nyzle exists. People just gave it a bad rep on day 1 because they couldn't reach 100... Why not try for like say a week and then trash on the setup lol?.......

Again, ignorant. We've been doing this for more than "a week." I mean seriously, do you honestly think that we're all dumb enough to believe that you'd ever do anything other than SCHx2, DDx4, despite suggesting we try?

[Fupafighter]

If I thought it would work, I would try it. I have 2 sch, why would I swap my setup to prove a point.

[Llana_Virren]

I bet 95% of you won't even try with different setups.

Then...


If I thought it would work, I would try it. I have 2 sch, why would I swap my setup to prove a point.

Hypocrite much?

[Fupafighter]

If I didn't have the ability to get sch, I would try cor brd or something. "Ignorant"? really?

[Milva]

If I didn't have the ability to get sch, I would try cor brd or something. "Ignorant"? really?

If we didn't have plates and cuttlery, we'd eat from the floor. Doable? Yes. Practiced? Not really.

[Fupafighter]

Just proved my point. You don't NEED 2 sch.

[Milva]

Just proved my point. You don't NEED 2 sch.

Go eat dirt then.

[Llana_Virren]

Fupatroller has already proven our point for us; he continues to agree that going SCHx2 is the only way, and that doing anything else is gimp, which is why he won't do anything without SCHx2 unless he "has to."

Of course, we try to get him to admit publicly what he already knows privately: that NI is broke and only benefits the hackmod groups who go SCHx2. But he would rather that, than let people he doesn't like get gear before he does.

What a sad, sad world FFXI has become.

[Fupafighter]

Proving my point more. You can do it without sch. Read up. I stated that any event that needs 2x sch embrava is broken you assface. No point in even trying to talk to you. You're the ignorant one lol. I am simply explaining why breaking the event is a bad idea, while you are supporting it because you simply cannot get the gear.

[Monchat]

why are you guys still arguing with him? the same guy claimed PLD tanking / skill chains/ magic burst (roffl) were the real way to kill stuffs in legion, and that PD embrava zerg are for gimps. www

[Llana_Virren]

why are you guys still arguing with him? the same guy claimed PLD tanking / skill chains/ magic burst (roffl) were the real way to kill stuffs in legion, and that PD embrava zerg are for gimps. www

Sorry, Mochat. Just... part of me feels like I'm duty bound to try to provide education to the less fortunate. Damn me and my sense of charity!

On an unrelated note: Do you think we'll ever have a non-zerg FFXI? Because I don't see how.

[Cream_Soda]

Proving my point more. You can do it without sch. Read up. I stated that any event that needs 2x sch embrava is broken you assface. No point in even trying to talk to you. You're the ignorant one lol. I am simply explaining why breaking the event is a bad idea, while you are supporting it because you simply cannot get the gear.
But it's still the most efficient way to do it and will have the highest chance of success. It's not impossible to do without 2 schs, but you'd be stupid not to exchange a sch for another job.

[Fupafighter]

I bet no'one tried magic bursting with 1 base element skillchain lol. I said Pld's hold adds.

[Aldersyde]

1. I have a static. 2. No'one that I know of has tried it, and I'm sure people will try it mainly because 75% of siren doesn't even know neo nyzle exists. People just gave it a bad rep on day 1 because they couldn't reach 100... Why not try for like say a week and then trash on the setup lol?.......

It's nice that you have a static. Kudos to you. People in my ls have discussed doing it but the thing holding us back atm is that we need people to level 2 schs (and likely more because we have more than 6 ppl in the ls) and then do the enhancing skillups and get the gear that brings it past 500. This takes time on a limited play schedule and not everyone just plugs in a script to do enhancing skillups, horribly inefficient I know (/sarcasm).

NNI got a poor rep not because ppl bad mouthed it on day 1 because floor 100 wasn't an insta-win; it's just a poorly designed event. There's no reason to go except for the gear. The original nyzul had motivations aside from the gear because of the weapon skills, some which were exceptionally good for certain jobs (drakesbane, atonement, king's justice). There were reasons to do the event aside from gear. It had replay value. It had progression. If NNI was a actually good source of alex it would have some utility for groups that didn't have an optimal setup and could actually be rewarded. People would try it just for the alex farming for the off-chance they might get lucky and get to a decent floor. Instead, SE basically made it that it's a big FU if you don't reach floor 80. They could have have put rings, earrings, waists, or back pieces with decent stats on lower floors but instead they just put crap armor sets there. The event has zero staying power and it's really lazy design. There's reasons to bad mouth NNI aside that from the fact that you need a very specific setup (2 schs is fking specific setup) and you need third party tools to nullify the luck factor.

This is just ranting about poor game design on SE's part now. They've made the same errors with neo-limbus...as there's no reason to do it aside from crap boss gear. At least with the old limbus, people could be rewarded with ABCs, ABC gear or +1 mats but now you need the coins just to do more neo-limbus runs for more crappy side-grade gear (and not even that, most is straight up inferior to existing gear). Limbus was one of the best 75 events because it had something for everybody. It wasn't a big FU event. Now it's just nonsense and seriously lazy shit. Would it really have taken that much work to add a few more ABC items (plus a KI item requirement just so ppl were trying the upper tier stuff)?

[Aldersyde]

But it's still the most efficient way to do it and will have the highest chance of success. It's not impossible to do without 2 schs, but you'd be stupid not to exchange a sch for another job.

Christ, thank you.

[Fupafighter]

Don't "need" 500 enhancing. 400+ should be fine.

[saevel]

Other day got,
Kill All, Jump 3
Kill Sepecific, Jump 3
Kill All, Jump 2
Kill Leader, Jump 4 (the Pyscflayer that dispells all your buffs)
Kill All, Jump 3
Code Lamp, Jump 3 (WAY far away from the runic portal)

Not joking, 7~8 jumps of nothing but 2~4, mostly 3's and mostly "Kill All". 15m left and was on floor 45. Got some decent jumps then landed on floor 60 ... yeah. Kill boss, already knew the run was hosed and wanted to see how high we could go, got to 87 after four really nice jumps.

So yeah, "skill" has nearly zero to do with this event. It's 90% "luck" in that you get a good floor jump and don't get screwed on objectives (kill leader, no WS). Not joking, other day got the bomber rat and "no WS", kept running away and there was nothing we could do about it. The 90% luck can be somewhat mitigated with secret ninja techniques, the more you use the more luck you can mitigate. No secret ninja techniques means your basing your runs entirely on luck.

SE could of created a goblin standing outside Nyzule Isle. Talk to him and rolls a number, need a group of 6 players and it takes everyone's tag. 1~95 gets you nothing, 96~100 gets you a piece of Floor 100 gear. This would have the same result as the current system, except secret ninja techniques couldn't be used to change the numbers he rolled.

[Byrth]

I'm not sure exactly how to mathematically address it, but considering you need to choose to advance ??? floors something like 18-20 times per run, floor jump distance actually plays a fairly minor role. By the time you reach floor 100, you have a sample size of about 18 jumps. Because your sample size is fairly high, your odds of seeing a number of floors/jump/run far from the average is fairly low.

For instance, your run ended on floor 87. Based on your own account and a little inference, it seems you jumped ~14-16 times and ended up on floor 87.
87/14 = 6.2 floors per jump
87/16 = 5.4
(9+2)/11 = 5.5 floors/jump average for an even distribution

So, despite your bad luck on the first few floors, you ended up seeing a number of floors that was near the expected average for your number of jumps. You need to clear the floors faster to increase your win rate.

[Fupafighter]

Gee no way. We hit I think it was 83 on 16 floor jumps last night. Was kinda sad. Got 96 too, but once again, a shit floor and we probably could have seen the boss floor if there wasn't an enemy leader 2 minutes away in some random corner going through a maze. But you know what, our group doesn't care, because we can win.

[saevel]

I'm not sure exactly how to mathematically address it, but considering you need to choose to advance ??? floors something like 18-20 times per run, floor jump distance actually plays a fairly minor role. By the time you reach floor 100, you have a sample size of about 18 jumps. Because your sample size is fairly high, your odds of seeing a number of floors/jump/run far from the average is fairly low.

For instance, your run ended on floor 87. Based on your own account and a little inference, it seems you jumped ~14-16 times and ended up on floor 87.
87/14 = 6.2 floors per jump
87/16 = 5.4
(9+2)/11 = 5.5 floors/jump average for an even distribution

So, despite your bad luck on the first few floors, you ended up seeing a number of floors that was near the expected average for your number of jumps. You need to clear the floors faster to increase your win rate.

Too many "kill all" floors and other time wasters. What you've (and others) have been dodging is that Nyzule Isle is fairly large, you can't kill everything in 30s or less. Takes too damn long to run from one spot to another, thus the secret ninja techniques come into play. Especially when you take into account killing wyverns who dispell three buffs, including haste / body boost / berserk / ect. Or that NM we had to fight three times that zaps all your buffs including food (embrava being immune). They just exist to suck time out of your run, not to mention having to fight the floor 60 boss.

Assuming 5min total for killing boss / loby time and zoning up timing your looking at a total of 1500 seconds to clear floors, 18 jumps is 83.3 seconds per floor, 20 jumps is 75 seconds per floor. That's not going to happen unless you get very lucky. If you get to 100 in 15 jumps then your talking 100s per floor which is a bit more manageable for a good group.

So like I said, 90% luck. That 90% can be reduced / managed using secret ninja techniques.

[Byrth]

Well, first off. Boss floors should never be a time waster for you. If they are, then you're fighting them wrong. Use Fanatic's against Floor 20/40/60/80 bosses and Fool's on floor 100. Your complaints generally make it sound like you need more damage. My group was WAR, THF (me), DRG, WAR, SCH, SCH. I probably should have been on WAR for more damage, but they liked me on THF for Collaborator when someone was dying and there wasn't a Scholar nearby. IMOP, it's not worth it for TH on the 99 boss especially as your group gets close to capping out.

That said, I wouldn't even venture in to NI on my PS2 with Order lamps as they are now. The odds of getting them are fairly low, but I'd still expect to see about one set per run on average and that's a little more rage than I need in my day-to-day playing.

[FrankReynolds]

Gee no way. We hit I think it was 83 on 16 floor jumps last night. Was kinda sad. Got 96 too, but once again, a shit floor and we probably could have seen the boss floor if there wasn't an enemy leader 2 minutes away in some random corner going through a maze. But you know what, our group doesn't care, because we can win.

You should come work for my company. I've been trying to staff up on employees who are highly skilled and okay with getting paid randomly (however much I have laying around / whenever I feel like paying them). So far everyone thinks they should get paid on a regular schedule in a set amount :/

[Rezeak]

You should come work for my company. I've been trying to staff up on employees who are highly skilled and okay with getting paid randomly (however much I have laying around / whenever I feel like paying them). So far everyone thinks they should get paid on a regular schedule in a set amount :/

it's called working on commission you don't always get paid but when you do it's decent.

[FrankReynolds]

it's called working on commission you don't always get paid but when you do it's decent.

No, commission is when you get paid for meeting sales / performance goals. I'm looking for people who will always perform like rockstars, but be willing to accept that sometimes I get unlucky at the tables in vegas and don't want to pay them.

[Fupafighter]

This is a game, not real life. Rules are different. Get used to them.

[Nala]

This is a game, not real life. Rules are different. Get used to them.
Yeah because no real life time is spent doing this event, 6 members x .5 hour runs x 5 tags (if you all have captain) + additional luck factors if attempting multiple runs for 2 hour resets on your scholars, not to mention gather and gear time given a perfect world this event is at least 15 man hours.

If the only person that was negatively affected was you then sure its just a game, but this like any event in 11 involves more then just you, no matter the MMO they are never "Just a game" otherwise we'd beat it and move on to the next game.

[Fupafighter]

Good luck getting SE to change the event to make it so the noobs can get the best armor in the game with minimal effort. I'm done trying to sway yall to just man up and do what is necessary, because you all have been spoiled with easy events and believe this is entirely luck based, when infact it is not. If you're dedicated and skilled, you will win. Maybe complaining here about nyzle isle ill change how they make future content, but flat out, unless they balance all jobs to be equal value to each event, there will be no way that all jobs will be welcome to an event. Basically what I'm saying is, unless all jobs are balanced, certain jobs will always be favored for an event, and if they do make an event where all jobs are useful, then people will just use the more powerful jobs and it will make the even easier and broken for the people using those powerful jobs. Good luck, and screw off.

[Aisu]

this is 100% wrong, it is very luck based try telling that to a run where we probably jumped i think it was 21 times and was still on floor 62 with alot of 2-4 jumps. We cleared the floors fast like allways but if you cant get those big jumps it does not matter how good of a group it is unless your cheating hardcore you will not win. Last run we did again was luck based we got to floor 95 then jumped to floor 100 killed it with 1 min to spare if it landed on any other floor unless it was a really quick floor like 1 enemy in the next room we would have lost. That is again more luck based on what type and how big of a floor it is. I have won 6 out of roughly 30-40 times and your lieing to yourself if you think this is not luck based. Sure its not hard and it requires alot of attempts you just need to keep trying till you get that lucky run you need.

[MarkovChain]

Good luck getting SE to change the event to make it so the noobs can get the best armor in the game with minimal effort.
That's what it is already, no ? Except the noobs are the ones claiming they are skilled when they have 100% cheats.

[wish12oz]

Too many "kill all" floors and other time wasters. What you've (and others) have been dodging is that Nyzule Isle is fairly large, you can't kill everything in 30s or less. Takes too damn long to run from one spot to another, thus the secret ninja techniques come into play. Especially when you take into account killing wyverns who dispell three buffs,

I can melee wyverns to death before they get 100 tp on WAR full timing hasso. You need better gear if you're seriously worried about this.


Or that NM we had to fight three times that zaps all your buffs including food (embrava being immune).

I assume you're talking about the soulflayer here. Again, same thing, I can easily kill it, solo, before it gets 100 TP. If you have good gear and are not terrible before entering the zone, it's kind of a joke. (mighty strikes > ukkos > ukkos > dead soulflayer NM, just dont run into more than the # of wars you have per run, which will never actually happen)


They just exist to suck time out of your run, not to mention having to fight the floor 60 boss.

You should use fanatics drink on the random low lvl floor boss you get every other run.


Assuming 5min total for killing boss / loby time and zoning up timing your looking at a total of 1500 seconds to clear floors, 18 jumps is 83.3 seconds per floor, 20 jumps is 75 seconds per floor. That's not going to happen unless you get very lucky.

It happens when you know what youre doing and have good gear.


If you get to 100 in 15 jumps then your talking 100s per floor which is a bit more manageable for a good group.

I think we have very different ideas of what 'good' is, as I illustrated earlier with my points about the mobs youre so afraid of. I think you're probably just terrible, you and your friends probably need to focus on gearing yourselves/lvling better jobs for the event.


So like I said, 90% luck. That 90% can be reduced / managed using secret ninja techniques.

Just because you said it, doesn't make it right.

Sorry I didnt post in awhile too, was busy playing Diabro thlee in my free time instead of browsing forums~