Walk of Echoes is dead again.

[Kysaiana]

I didn't feel like finding and necro-bumping the old WoE thread so I'm starting a new one to see if WoE still has activity on other servers or if it's just as dead as on Siren.

I honestly have no idea what would garner interest in WoE again short of adding HMPs to the drop list. It's too bad, I didn't even get half way done with my GS for dice. Ended up with 38 dice 12 residue before people just stopped going entirely. It used to be you could at least go 2 days of the week and find enough people to do some runs, now it's just totally dead in WoE besides people zoning into provenance.

[Mifaco]

Toss it on the content trash heap along with Pankration, Fish Ranking, Ballista, Brenner, LS Liga, Northlands campaigns, Evoliths, Elite Training Regimes, traditional XP parties, and more.

[Zumi]

You could make your own group if you really wanted to do it.

[Kysaiana]

Toss it on the content trash heap along with Pankration, Fish Ranking, Ballista, Brenner, LS Liga, Northlands campaigns, Evoliths, Elite Training Regimes, traditional XP parties, and more.

Don't forget eco warrior and expeditionary force!


You could make your own group if you really wanted to do it.

Possible. However, the effort involved would far outweigh any chance of getting dice that might result if I was lucky enough to find people that care about WoE anymore. If I really want to finish the trial I suppose I can farm up 6.2 mil gil, and that's if I could find 62 more dice, all at 100k each. Which is unlikely. And then there's the issue of residue which are usually 200k if you can actually find them. But it's really not worth that much gil for a few more base damage.

[Elexia]

You could make your own group if you really wanted to do it.

Since you come from Phoenix I know it's hard to believe, but, on some servers if an event is dead (which a lot are on phoenix, btw) you can't "make a group if you really wanted to do it."

It surprised me that when I moved from Phoenix, people actually did things other than Abyssea, however WoE is officially dying down now even in JP prime time.

[Dreamin]

Still pretty active on Sat/Sun morning EST time from 7am-11am or so here with primary JP players and some NA'ers.

I done both 5 and 7 lowmen with anywhere from 2-4 SMN and/or BST's. So can always level one of those and try to find 3 other ppl in the same boat as you.

[svengalis]

If they make the weapons worth doing then maybe people will actually do woes.

[Vivivivi]

Dead on Quetz until about 12:00AM EST and then is EXTREMELY active up until about 9:00AM EST. Did a /sea the other day, and there was almost 100 people in the zone. Seems to be very popular with Japanese and European players, but for whatever reason, not North American players.

I think the recent updates made to it are fantastic, it's a great place to skill up at level 99 now, the rewards aren't bad, and it really is a lot of fun if you get into a good group. Even if you don't, it's still fun.

Related question- anyone know what triggers weaknesses and what happens when you do it? I can't seem to find any information about it, but have seen/staggered a few enemies.

[Spiritreaver]

If they make the weapons worth doing then maybe people will actually do woes.

No, if they had simply added a personal chest at the end of a battle/time-out(based on the same grading system from say Campaign even) with a pool that had a 5 min or so delay, instead of the BS 'you must win to even get your hourly ration of logs'-then maybe ppl would do WoE.

For a group of ppl so almost romantically preoccupied with 'balance', SE totally failed when they redid WoE. Event arrived DoA and i haven't bothered with it since the change.

@OP until SE wakes up and uses their collective brain and fixes WoE properly, i've just consigned myself to having the WoE weapons i did way back when stuck at lvl 90.

[Kysaiana]

Related question- anyone know what triggers weaknesses and what happens when you do it? I can't seem to find any information about it, but have seen/staggered a few enemies.

Weakness in WoE seems to be totally random. When you get the red stagger, everyone gets a temp item (first stagger only) which also seems to be random.

[Luvbunny]

Walk of Echoes is fantastic ideas - too bad they keep failing at grasping what people wants from the game. Take a cue from abyssea and void watch, make a direct port to walk of echoes area, and actually put more gears in there and this will be rather successful. Not too dead in Bahamut, but still wish it is not only alive during japan time.

[Camiie]

I did plenty of WoE for the time it was actually "popular" and got quite a few coins and trash. I've said it before, but one of the biggest problems with WoE is that SE and the playerbase could never seem to decide what sort of event it was supposed to be. Low man? Large group? Just jump in and go? Shout and gather? Organized event?

It should have either been Campaign 2.0 where one can progress solo and/or with random folks, or it should have been Einherjar 2.0 where one progresses with a group. Instead it's a schizo mishmash that combines the worst of both and the best of neither.

A points system would have greatly benefited WoE alongside the random loot, but no SE is too stubborn and lazy/understaffed to backtrack and add such a thing.

[Zerich]

again? doesn't something have to be alive/successful for it to die 'again'?

[Luvbunny]

Walk of Echoes for me is a large campaign battle that you can log in and play anytime you want. The only limitation is access, which is not as convenient and direct like other newer events. Second is drops, which seems random and most are not as valuable. Overall is quite addictive - the lag is ridiculous though, maybe that is another reasons why it is not as successful.

[Mahoro]

I still like it a lot since it's one of the few events where you roam around and hunt stuff, and the majority of the fluxes are so easy now you can just unload. Nice stress reliever. Really fun when you go during JP primetime or with an LS.

[Quetzacoatl]

To everyone who told me WoE wasn't dead after I exclaimed that no one does WoE:

I told you so, damn it.

[scaevola]

again? doesn't something have to be alive/successful for it to die 'again'?

Hey, WoE was actually pretty popular between September (when it became more accessible) and December.

The main thing that killed WoE, the NUMBER ONE thing from which there is absolutely no road back, was Merit Weapon Skills. Once those were on the table, there was simply no reason to dick around in WoE for coins, which is what the vast majority of us were actually doing despite the presence of a few people playing the slots for high-value AHables.

Certainly those AHables are still valuable, but without the great writhing mass of weekend warriors who just want to play around with Victory Smite and not be hassled, the active culture an event like WoE needs to succeed just won't come back.

[Camiie]

Walk of Echoes for me is a large campaign battle that you can log in and play anytime you want.

But with Campaign I could do something solo even prior to the level cap increase. I might not win the battle, but I can score XP, AN, and Union trash. You can't do that in WoE anymore.

[Alhanelem]

Part of my falling out of love with PUP has been I went for the WoE weapon for Victory Smite (because I didn't feel like I'd be able to obtain the empy). First trial took a while but got it done, second one was really easy. I figured from then on it wasn't gong to be that hard, boy was I wrong. It went from easy to being way harder than getting the empyrean. But now I don't want to start all over for emp. 100 devious dice with even the improved drop rate is still terrible when nobody ever does WoE except at the peak of jp prime time.

[Mahoro]

less fun when the sacks have a hard-on for the turtle flux!

Lol. Well, if people stop spending DKP on stuff from there, we'll stop making you do it! It's one of the only fluxes where I can eke points out of people :P

[Camiie]

Part of my falling out of love with PUP has been I went for the WoE weapon for Victory Smite (because I didn't feel like I'd be able to obtain the empy). First trial took a while but got it done, second one was really easy. I figured from then on it wasn't gong to be that hard, boy was I wrong. It went from easy to being way harder than getting the empyrean. But now I don't want to start all over for emp. 100 devious dice with even the improved drop rate is still terrible when nobody ever does WoE except at the peak of jp prime time.

I feel your pain. I had Revenant Fists +2 made, but ended up tossing them because it was easier and faster to make Verethragna 90 from scratch than to continue to upgrade Rev. Fists.

[svengalis]

I feel your pain. I had Revenant Fists +2 made, but ended up tossing them because it was easier and faster to make Verethragna 90 from scratch than to continue to upgrade Rev. Fists.

I did the same not sure they were necessarily easier though. I think I will stop mine at 90 if I ever decide to do that trial. Getting it to 99 is unrealistic and probably wont ever happen for me because if I decide to take one of my empyreans to 90 it would be kannagi because ninja is the job I use most.

[Camiie]

I did the same not sure they were necessarily easier though. I think I will stop mine at 90 if I ever decide to do that trial. Getting it to 99 is unrealistic and probably wont ever happen for me because if I decide to take one of my empyreans to 90 it would be kannagi because ninja is the job I use most.

Easier probably wasn't the right word. What I meant was I could realistically get people to do Abyssea with me as opposed to WoE, and even if every Abyssea NM only dropped 1 out of 2 items, that's still better than the randomness of devious die drops.

My current and future Empyreans (if any) will be stopped at 90 as well. 1500 HMPs is at least 10 times too many. There's no way in hell I'd ever be able to collect that many plates even if I devoted my entire life to the game. Yeah I know, someone will tell me that's working as intended and they like the taste of my tears and I should be grateful SE allowed a lowly worm like myself to wield such a weapon in the first place.

[Eri]

Its sad to me that noone goes WoE anymore... It was fun while ppl acutally went. Given i'm playing mostly in Jp timeszones... I got a Weapon to 99.... but then again .... even Japanese Friends refuse to go now =(

During the last Census SE called WoE Weapons: Empyrean.... but they don't live up to that name at all, Balance that.

It was to much work, but im not asking to make it easy, but at least rewarding.

Anyway... to make WoE worth doing it would be like usefull to:


Add Rare/Ex Gear that can only be obtained there.
(Rare/Ex Gear can be obtained by 'buying' with Coins, Residue or Die.)
Add some exchange NPC that trades:
5 Random Coins > 1 Coin that you select
10 Die > 1 Residue
5 Residue > 1 Die
Add WoE Shield and Instrument
Add a Defensive Aftermath (after the 99 Trail) which is unique to WoE Weapons, Instruments and Shields.
Remove the Party hate System. (It forces Players to go Solo)


Also maybe an Npc that exchanges Logs for Ores and Vice Versa? >_>

[Kysaiana]

I would probably toss my GS and do caladbolg if I didn't dread the thought of camping all those lotto NMs for a 3rd time. It's too bad you can't undo magian trials to the points where they split. But I'm just being lazy.

As for HMP, I think the general consensus is that 1500 is a beyond retarded number given how few VWNM actually can drop them, and the pathetic drop rates that they have. The supply will dry up pretty fast when people finally get bored of fighting Akvan etc for Heka's/Toci's/etc only to get logs/ tears (literally)/ etc etc etc....

I've been holding on to any HMP I get from VW and I barely have 94/1500. Granted a lot of what I've fought with my LS doesn't even drop HMP. The drop rate seems to be 25% for singles if you're lucky. Which is 6,000 VW fights of NM that actually can drop HMP, and that's if you're lucky. If you want to purchase route, (also known as the "finish before the servers shut down" route), it would cost 180 mil from scratch at 120k per plate. Which is the going rate on siren at least.

Sorry that was a bit of a rant. But the HMP roadblock really pisses me off.

[scaevola]

About the only thing I could think of that could bring WoE back from the dead at this point would be a buff to Empyrean WSes at the 95 stage of both Emps and WoE weapons like the ones Relics and Mythics got, which I laughed off at first but now I'm actually considering.

I mean, if you go to the trouble of getting 1500 HMPs or 100 Dies, why SHOULDN'T your Fudos, Torcleavers, Rudra's Storms, and so forth beat the shit out of their Merit weapon skill equivalents?

[Zerich]

About the only thing I could think of that could bring WoE back from the dead at this point would be a buff to Empyrean WSes at the 95 stage of both Emps and WoE weapons like the ones Relics and Mythics got, which I laughed off at first but now I'm actually considering.

I mean, if you go to the trouble of getting 1500 HMPs or 100 Dies, why SHOULDN'T your Fudos, Torcleavers, Rudra's Storms, and so forth beat the shit out of their Merit weapon skill equivalents?

Because WoE was supposed to be extremely popular among the players (to SE) and it would have been a reasonable way for casual players to gain Empy weaponskills without the aftermath or awesomeness. How wrong they were...

[Luvbunny]

I wonder why the NA players avoid Walk of Echoes like crazy? Is it the inconvenience of traveling? Not knowing the existence of other expansions beside Abyssea? Or just plain ignorance. There are so many players that have no clue about Walk of Echoes since you have to actually go back to the past, another expansion that is rather foreign to them. I think SE need to create NPC that does direct port for all these endgame events so that people will do it more.

[detlef]

Add those crafting materials that are impossible to get so people can get to 110. That may be enough incentive to get people to do it.

[Zerich]

I wonder why the NA players avoid Walk of Echoes like crazy? Is it the inconvenience of traveling? Not knowing the existence of other expansions beside Abyssea? Or just plain ignorance. There are so many players that have no clue about Walk of Echoes since you have to actually go back to the past, another expansion that is rather foreign to them. I think SE need to create NPC that does direct port for all these endgame events so that people will do it more.

Because the weapon upgrades are utter shit and there are more productive/reliable ways to farm.

[Alhanelem]

Well initially, it was an easier alternative to empyrean weapons, which were seen as much harder initially. And at first, that was accurate. getting coins could be done solo, and the next upgrade after that was very easy. this led people to think it was going to stay that way. Then they hit us with devious dice. with all the ppl in my LS vying for one, i decided to skip on the HTH empy because i thought I'd probably never get it. Now in hindsight that was possibly a mistake.

[Zumi]

I am in the process of redoing my H2H and Great Ax for the empyrean version. I did WoE of both of those and it was a huge mistake. At the time it was much easier then empyrean. But now people won't let you join groups as a damage dealer without a Relic or Empyrean.

Really wish there was a way to downgrade trial weapons to their previous versions if we wish to change their path. I know its never going to happen can always ask for it.

Can't say I am having fun redoing a bunch of weak timed NMs again.

[Gokku]

But now people won't let you join groups as a damage dealer without a Relic or Empyrean.

Speak for yourself, im able to get into most any VW group on my none relic / empy jobs. its a matter of being able to prove your dps is solid regardless and having a decent reputation.

[scaevola]

Not even that, really; "hey, I have a TP Bonus Great Katana, know how weaknesses and temp items work, and know how to get to the Planar Rift so you won't have to wait for my ass" usually works for me.

I have never once been turned down from a group on MNK when I tell them I use Revenant Fists.

[Yygdrasil]

I'm not sure if it's the same for anyone else, but the main thing keeping me from participating WoE (an event which I happen to love) is the fact that although I can use the player search function to get an idea of who's in the zone, or standing outside the zone... I can't tell if they're idle... afk... trying to bazaar shit... or just waiting for other people to show up and hope to join them.

If I search and see anything less than 12 people in the zone, I won't bother traveling there to check it out.

Maybe if they expanded the search function to include individual walks it would make me consider going more often.

*Your search reveals 9 people in WoE: Conflux #7* > *Your search reveals 11 people in WoE* IMHO

The difference is... I know the 9 people are active... while the 11 are anyone's guess... but likely idle.

[Luvbunny]

Just wondering if they actually read all these things we posted on the forum. Or actually listening to the players feedback since all indications point that they do not care what we think or want. Are we just wasting our time here or just blowing off steams knowing that all our efforts and opinion are for naught.

[Logandor]

Sadly Last time I checked it was deader then a dead mouse on Carby server. :( Yeah we could get our own groups and go but it was still fun when the new stuff came out and you could just pop in with an entire freaking army of other players and have fun with them. Now speaking of other players sadly I don't know more then 6 who would even want to do WoE. :(

[Camate]

Greetings!

I just wanted to take a moment to update you all on the status of some things we are planning for Walk of Echoes.

As previously mentioned, we have been working on bonus walks, which were planned for implementation around summer, but they have been taking a bit of time to finalize. Apologies for the wait, but we estimate that we can get these implemented onto the test server with the update next month.

Also, further down the line we are thinking to make some adjustments to the Walk of Echoes system itself. We are still at the planning phase for this; however, we’d like to really make use of the special traits of Walk of Echoes and turn it into a sort of playground that offers a lot of variety and rewards.

This will take a bit of time before we can implement it since we are working on new content additions and existing content adjustments, but once we get more information we will be sure to update you all :)

[Luvbunny]

Thank you very much Camate for this update, please do make it so that it become fun, easy, accessible and enjoyable event that everyone can attend at any time. Thanks again!!

[Mahoro]

Very nice to hear the devs still plan to add to WoE. I have had some of my best fun in the game in WoE, and it is more "Legion" than Legion since the mobs come at you in waves but don't all require perfectly coordinated party swaps and Embrava/PD zergs. :cool:

[Luvbunny]

I have had some of my best fun in the game in WoE, and it is more "Legion" than Legion since the mobs come at you in waves but don't all require perfectly coordinated party swaps and Embrava/PD zergs. :cool:

So totally true!!! WoE is the Legion done right 100%!!

[xbobx]

Can you at least add the weapon upgrade items somewhere else. I have a bow that it is impossible for me to upgrade, and I will use your favourite term. That is not balance.

[Phafi]

Stealing my own idea from a few months ago.

Add a sixth coin type as well as a walk of echoes path for a shield and a harp. Possibly do something like:
Shield -> Utilis Shield (Augmented) DEF+7 for first trial [30 of sixth coin]
DEF: 15 for second trial [Kindred's Crest x20]
DEF: 25 for Lv.90 trial [High Kindred's Crest x50]
DEF: 30 Converts 20% of damage taken to MP upon successful block for the Lv.95 [Devious Die x100] (keep it as a size 3 kite shield for block rate and block absorption)
DEF: 35 Converts 25% of damage taken to MP upon successful block for the Lv.99 [Liminal Residue x100] (possibly give this Lv.99 version of the shield like an Aegis type block rate and block absorption?)

Harp -> Pyf Harp (Augmented) String skill +2 for the first trial [30 of sixth coin]
String skill +5 for second trial [Kindred's Crest x20]
String skill +5 Singing skill +5 for the Lv.90 trial [High Kindred's Crest x50]
String skill +7 Singing skill +7 for the Lv.95 trial [Devious Die x100]
String skill +10 Singing skill +10 Grants an additional song effect for the Lv.99 trial [Liminal Residue x100]
__________________________

Now that there would be six types of coins, have Veridical Conflux 1-6 each be assigned one of the six coins to drop so that people can know what they are going after when they enter the battlefield. The next step would be to increase the coin supply to a point where people can obtain the level 90 version of the weapons relatively easily with any old pickup group of however many they may need to complete the battlefield.

Change the box system to yield two types of chests, a gold pyxis and brown pyxis. Should a player select a gold pyxis they will not be able to receive coins, but are guaranteed at least one piece of equipment from that conflux as an incentive for players who do not need coins to do the event anyway. Should a player select a brown pyxis, they guarantee themselves at least one pouch of the coins assigned to that conflux. Have Veridical Conflux 7 be a wildcard where you are guaranteed at least one pouch in your chest, but it is random.

Now for Veridical Conflux 8 through Veridical Conflux 15, add a box for Devious Dice that would yield between 3 and 10 or something and place them in the brown pyxis in confluxes 8 through 11. The same can be applied to Liminal Residue for confluxes 12 through 15. To add even more of an incentive for players to participate in these higher tier confluxes, add conflux specific rare/ex equipment WORTH GOING TO DO THE EVENT FOR so that players can not simply say "somebody else will do it, I'll buy it on the auction house when it gets there." If players go to do walk of echoes to obtain equipment they cannot get anywhere else, people that are working on their weapons will also go and actually progress beyond the level 90 version.

For all fluxes: upon not completing the objective within the time limit, the monsters will despawn and only the brown chests will appear for a chance to obtain single coins(flux1-7), dice(flux8-11), residue(flux12-15) depending on completion percent. For example 0-33% may yield a 50% chance of one coin/die/residue, 34-66% 100% chance of one coin/die/residue, 67-99% 100% chance of one coin/die/residue and a 50% chance of a second.

_______________

now to expand on the idea:
Add further trials to these weapons that we could merge them with other trial weapons such as a Shamash (Great Axe) with the TP Bonus +100 stat from one of the Tavatimsa trials (I don't think I'd go as far as suggesting the OaT, Oa2-4 or the Double Attack weapons though) or a Circinae with DEX+11 Critical Hit Rate+7 from the Terathopus.

The event definitely needs some decent-good (ex) flagged equipment to get people in the zone though.

[Tile]

Stealing my own idea from a few months ago.

Add a sixth coin type as well as a walk of echoes path for a shield and a harp.

dont need to Add a Sixth coin. Advancement, Birth, Decay, and Glory are all used for 3 differnt weapons. Coin of Ruin is only used for staff though, so it would make perfect since to tag this coin to something else. or hell make it a Wild coin that can be used for any.

[Hashmalum]

Add a sixth coin type as well as a walk of echoes path for a shield and a harp.Sounds like a good idea to me. Actually I always thought it was odd that there were so many branching weapon trials with so many specialized end results but only one shield and one instrument (plus the relic upgrades).


Now that there would be six types of coins, have Veridical Conflux 1-6 each be assigned one of the six coins to drop so that people can know what they are going after when they enter the battlefield.Assigning one coin type to a battlefield is only going to split the already tiny base of Walk of Echoes players even further, possibly into complete nonviability as the number of people interested in battlefields drops below the number needed to complete them. It would certainly screw up anyone trying to do a unpopular weapon. It also won't help people who have already done the event and have supplies of all of the coin types. No, I would rather that some sort of alternate use be added for the coins, ideally one that would interest even players who wouldn't go for the inferior yet impssible to get Walk of Echoes weapons.

[Koren]

Now that there would be six types of coins, have Veridical Conflux 1-6 each be assigned one of the six coins to drop so that people can know what they are going after when they enter the battlefield. The next step would be to increase the coin supply to a point where people can obtain the level 90 version of the weapons relatively easily with any old pickup group of however many they may need to complete the battlefield.


It's a bad idea to have only one type of coin come from only one conflux. It would be fine at first when a lot of people do it, but as interest dwindles you'll end up with a dozen people refusing to help each other because the ones needing Birth coins wont waste time in Glory confluxs.

[Camiie]

dont need to Add a Sixth coin. Advancement, Birth, Decay, and Glory are all used for 3 differnt weapons. Coin of Ruin is only used for staff though, so it would make perfect since to tag this coin to something else. or hell make it a Wild coin that can be used for any.

Good observation there. Two more potential items, and room left for them on ruin coins. I wonder if that's coincidence or if they had something planned that they scrapped. I don't want to give them too much credit.

Still if people really want a sixth coin, they're going to have to go through him:

http://www.rangercentral.com/episodes/1993_mightymorphin/ep17/eppic11.jpg

[Phafi]

It's a bad idea to have only one type of coin come from only one conflux. It would be fine at first when a lot of people do it, but as interest dwindles you'll end up with a dozen people refusing to help each other because the ones needing Birth coins wont waste time in Glory confluxs.

because you can't beat flux 1-6 (level 80 content) with four people or less :(
also there was the part about (ex) equipment, just put more desirable equipment in with less desirable coins

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'll believe it when it actually happens, or we get confirmation in an actual update.

[Kaisha]

Really need to drop the alliance-hate in WoE. It's kinda sad when you see 36 people in a battlefield, and they're all running around solo because it's safer that way.

[SNK]

Greetings!

I just wanted to take a moment to update you all on the status of some things we are planning for Walk of Echoes.

As previously mentioned, we have been working on bonus walks, which were planned for implementation around summer, but they have been taking a bit of time to finalize. Apologies for the wait, but we estimate that we can get these implemented onto the test server with the update next month.

Also, further down the line we are thinking to make some adjustments to the Walk of Echoes system itself. We are still at the planning phase for this; however, we’d like to really make use of the special traits of Walk of Echoes and turn it into a sort of playground that offers a lot of variety and rewards.

This will take a bit of time before we can implement it since we are working on new content additions and existing content adjustments, but once we get more information we will be sure to update you all :)

Currency Exchange NPC. Seriously. God please make an NPC that lets you trade out those worthless Coins of Ruin.

[Dreamin]

Exchange for coins into either Dies or Residues. In additions to the other coins that ppl want. please.

[Xerius]

Unfortunately, unless you increase drop rates or add better gear it's simply going to die again. WoE is rarely worth the time investment to get what you want out of it.

[Mirage]

SE needs to seriously look into and analyze the expected time it takes for a dedicated player to finish an empyrean weapon, and the time it would take for the same player to finish a WoE weapon, and their differences in power.

Either the WoE weapons need to be much easier, or they need to be much closer to the power of an empy weapon. Maybe a bit of both.

A way to make WoE weapons less annoying to get would probably be to have many other items drop in there that are actually really good at level 99. That way, coins, dice and residues will become more plentiful as a function of that.

I'm by no means the best game designer in the world, but some of my suggestions would be:

Gear that looks unique and cool.
Gear that has rare stats in unusual slots and for unusual jobs.
Gear that will be best in slot for certain jobs in certain perhaps unusual, but not obscure and stupid builds.
Gear that has set bonuses with the WoE weapons, perhaps? "Woe weapon equipped: occasionally deals double damage" for a ghetto-aftermath?

[saevel]

Very nice to hear the devs still plan to add to WoE. I have had some of my best fun in the game in WoE, and it is more "Legion" than Legion since the mobs come at you in waves but don't all require perfectly coordinated party swaps and Embrava/PD zergs. :cool:

I absolutely loved WoE until it got invaded by BST's and SMNs. They always seemed to ruin a run so we quit doing it as a "fun day" type event.

Otherwise WoE is an awesome idea with much potential. Obviously SE needs to add some sort of loot, my vote would be a points based system. Every time you kill a monster you get some small amount of points and if the zone is "Won" then everyone gets a big point reward. Collect points and use to buy rewards and / or special WoE specific buffs (Similar to Voidwatch Atmacite). Need to fix the problem where monsters do crazy zone wide aggro / link BS. Treat it like regular monster aggro / link and put a ton more monsters inside. Have the zone boss only spawn after a certain number of monsters or minor NM's have been killed, similar to the old Dynamis system but on a much smaller scale.

That kind of stuff would make WoE interesting again and prevent the hordes of BST's and SMN's rushing straight to the zone boss, aggroing it and killing everyone else in the zone.

[Kristal]

Heh.. add a slot machine that takes WoE coins and gives you a random chance on any WoE loot, be it gil, logs, coins, pouches, gear, etc. You will always get an item back, so it's not gambling.

[Muras]

Also, further down the line we are thinking to make some adjustments to the Walk of Echoes system itself. We are still at the planning phase for this; however, we’d like to really make use of the special traits of Walk of Echoes and turn it into a sort of playground that offers a lot of variety and rewards.

Could we get the dev's current thoughts/plans on this anyways? A part of the problem with this game is that the devs never ask us for any input until after they've finalised everything, and by then they've already coded the main systems of the event and thus making it that much harder to alter things (Along with all the money/time/resources used to make said event potentially going to waste). It'd be much more productive for both players and devs if we were allowed to give input before things were fully created. The players know this game very well; They'll often be able to spot potential problems before they happen.

[Mirage]

Heh.. add a slot machine that takes WoE coins and gives you a random chance on any WoE loot, be it gil, logs, coins, pouches, gear, etc. You will always get an item back, so it's not gambling.

Haha, that's actually a pretty neat idea.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Heh.. add a slot machine that takes WoE coins and gives you a random chance on any WoE loot, be it gil, logs, coins, pouches, gear, etc. You will always get an item back, so it's not gambling.

It is.

You're gambling one, potentially good item to get another potentially better item.

[Dreamin]

because you can't beat flux 1-6 (level 80 content) with four people or less :(
also there was the part about (ex) equipment, just put more desirable equipment in with less desirable coins

Not true, both 5 and 7 can be duo. 7 with 2x BST or SMN. 5 with 2x BST. Might need 3-4 SMN for 5 if only SMN available.

Been there, done it.

[Mirage]

So unless you're bst, you're not allowed to clear WoE fluxes. Well that doesn't sound very fun!

[saevel]

So unless you're bst, you're not allowed to clear WoE fluxes. Well that doesn't sound very fun!

Jobs with disposable pets are able to low man the fluxes, unfortunately they also screw up the ENTIRE run for anyone else in the zone. The moment they touch the boss it turns into a death fest for everyone who doesn't use pets.

[Dreamin]

It's the unfortunate state of the current WoE. Due to alliance hate, lack of interests, etc, etc. WoE at it currently stand now is only CLEAR-able because of SMNs and BSTs. Right now, if you come on any DD job, your typical routine is to run in, engage, die, raise and repeat. It certainly doesn't have to be so but it is what the reality tells us (at least on my server).

[Mirage]

Ideally, there should be fluxes designed for a variety of party setups. Fluxes for DD-heavy parties, fluxes for pet-happy people, fluxes for nuke-heavy party setups, and fluxes for parties with a bit of a balanced setup. In addition, there should be fluxes balanced for ~3, ~6, ~12 ~18 and ~25+ players. All the fluxes should give good rewards, and it should probably made in a way that if you attempted a flux balanced for 3 people with way more than 3 players, that would hurt drop rates for the players, so that if you had 10+ people, you should rather attempt a flux balanced for your amount of participants.

Example: Flux #1337 is balanced for 6 players. Clearing it with the best possible score would give up to 30 coins, up to 6 coin pouches and 3 dice/residues spread among the amount of participants. That could lead to approximately 5 coins, one pouch for each of the players, and half of the participants would get a dice . If you however attempted to clear that flux with 30 people, the players would get on average 1 coin each, 24 people wouldn't even get a pouch, and only 3 of them would get a dice.

Flux #1338 could be balanced for 25+ players though, and be more or less impossible to clear with 10 players. If you did manage to clear it with 30 however, it could offer a total reward pool of 25 pouches and 150 coins and 15 dice split among the participants.

Some of the fluxes work sort of like this already, but many of them require very specific party setups to clear with few people. Fluxes for small parties should still give good enough rewards for it to not feel like a waste to do those instead of the huge fluxes. There should probably still be some extra rewards for the really big fluxes.

Perhaps all fluxes, small or big, should drop roughly the same amount of coins, dice and residues, while the ones for 20+ and 30+ players would add items not related to WoE weapons on top of that. Stuff that sells for a significant amount of money, or perhaps this could be where you'd get the "best in slot" items i mentioned in my earlier post.

Those two are just examples, and the numbers I used are in no way meant to be set in stone. The actual process of balancing the fluxes, drop rates and such is a job that would take more time than the 5 minutes I spent writing this post.



-edit-
Now that I think about it, wouldn't Cait Sith sort of fit the role of running a mini-game where you could bet coins for other items?

-edit again-
Another idea I've been playing around with is the possibility of giving something like "resonating" properties with WoE weapons and the real empy weapons. What if using a WoE weapon alongside a player with the corresponding Empy weapon would give special buffs when both used the WSes on rapid succession? WoE Ukko's + Empy Ukko's used within 8 seconds could generate a crit damage buff that would affect the two party members closest to the WS users, for example. Different WSes could create different buffs.

I dunno how cool you guys think this is. It's probably not required to do this, but it would perhaps make the "best" players not think so badly about having a WoE weapon user in their alliance, because the WoE weapon user would actually make their alliance's Empy users stronger than they normally are.

Anyway, I realize that not all my ideas are good ones. If you disagree with some of them, please quote the parts you think are dumb and we could probably have a sensible discussion about it.

Holy shit this ended up a pretty long post.

[Logandor]

slots would be a fun addition to WoE maybe in the waiting area somewhere perhaps?

[saevel]

It's the unfortunate state of the current WoE. Due to alliance hate, lack of interests, etc, etc. WoE at it currently stand now is only CLEAR-able because of SMNs and BSTs. Right now, if you come on any DD job, your typical routine is to run in, engage, die, raise and repeat. It certainly doesn't have to be so but it is what the reality tells us (at least on my server).

That is incorrect. My LS used to do random WoE runs as a "fun event". We would go in with an alliance and completely stomp every zone. It's amazing what you can accomplish when your melees have buffs and healers. We would clear out all the regular monsters then take on the boss, ended up with a ton of points and some gear that we often traded around inside the LS. Then a bunch of SMN's and BSTs started taging along and ruining our runs. While we would be clearing out the weaker mobs (for points) they would all S/I and run to the mega boss, aggro it then rag it back to the beginning. That boss would then link every unkilled monster and those would then link with whatever we were fighting. We would go from fighting two monsters at a time to fighting five causing an instant wipe. We'd end up staying dead almost the entire time due to the mobs constantly moving around cause the a$$ hat pet jobs were trying to bring the mega boss down on their own. They would eventually kill it and everyone would have crap points due to not killing all the regular mobs.

So EVERYONE gets crap drops cause a few idiots wanted to solo / do their own thing and not work together.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Add NPC's that can directly tele back and forth from the main cities would be a huge help........

[Dreamin]

That is incorrect. My LS used to do random WoE runs as a "fun event". We would go in with an alliance and completely stomp every zone. It's amazing what you can accomplish when your melees have buffs and healers. We would clear out all the regular monsters then take on the boss, ended up with a ton of points and some gear that we often traded around inside the LS. Then a bunch of SMN's and BSTs started taging along and ruining our runs. While we would be clearing out the weaker mobs (for points) they would all S/I and run to the mega boss, aggro it then rag it back to the beginning. That boss would then link every unkilled monster and those would then link with whatever we were fighting. We would go from fighting two monsters at a time to fighting five causing an instant wipe. We'd end up staying dead almost the entire time due to the mobs constantly moving around cause the a$$ hat pet jobs were trying to bring the mega boss down on their own. They would eventually kill it and everyone would have crap points due to not killing all the regular mobs.

So EVERYONE gets crap drops cause a few idiots wanted to solo / do their own thing and not work together.

That's because you probably dont understands that your chance of getting the top gears/scrolls with just 4k xp points vs 12k xp points is exactly the same. Remember there's no longer top 5 chest, there's no more single community chest and everyone gets a chest at the end of a clear ONLY.

Fighting the regular mobs trends to do absolutely NOTHING in WoE. For efficiency, they are only killed if they're in the way to the zone boss. Since, efficiency is the king of game play now a day. And yes, there's nothing from stopping anyone or even any LS to go in and tries to beat up all the regular mobs and linking/aggroing them and making everyone having to fight them. Thereby, slowing everyone down to get to the boss.

Again, I'm just stating how WoE are typically played out as now a day since most ppl that are interested in going there are just going for the quick kill-reward. Most people that goes are not going there to 'enjoy' the fights.

[saevel]

That's because you probably dont understands that your chance of getting the top gears/scrolls with just 4k xp points vs 12k xp points is exactly the same. Remember there's no longer top 5 chest, there's no more single community chest and everyone gets a chest at the end of a clear ONLY.

Evidence backing this up?

It's like saying your chance at voidwatch gear is exactly the same at 100% red as it is at 550% red (capped lights). And while some of the gear has such a low drop rate as it feels like it doesn't matter, light levels most definitely do matter.

Also if the pet jobs are circle jerking around the boss, only they get points, everyone else just gets screwed.

[Sparthos]

Add NPC's that can directly tele back and forth from the main cities would be a huge help........

Give this man a bone.

[detlef]

One thing that really killed WoE was that one of the most desirable drops (scrolls) was made to be a common drop in VW.

[Glamdring]

Greetings!

I just wanted to take a moment to update you all on the status of some things we are planning for Walk of Echoes.

As previously mentioned, we have been working on bonus walks, which were planned for implementation around summer, but they have been taking a bit of time to finalize. Apologies for the wait, but we estimate that we can get these implemented onto the test server with the update next month.

Also, further down the line we are thinking to make some adjustments to the Walk of Echoes system itself. We are still at the planning phase for this; however, we’d like to really make use of the special traits of Walk of Echoes and turn it into a sort of playground that offers a lot of variety and rewards.

This will take a bit of time before we can implement it since we are working on new content additions and existing content adjustments, but once we get more information we will be sure to update you all :)

Items of concern:
a. lose the garbage drops (craftables, etc.) we can cover inv -1 items without any help tyvm.
b. Increase drop rates on the ghetto empy drops.
c. crossplatform the end-game drops, ie. add plates and riftcinders to WoE, add coins and Dies to VW, add both to legion, neo-nyzul , dynamis/salvage/limbus/ein 2.0. Time is too damn precious for most of us to be running in 8 different events to do our gear building. You get the idea.
d. the god-awful 1-shot AoE needs to go! I don't mind if it requires buffs or something for a reasonable chance at survival, let the support jobs have a place, I actually approve of that, but having done so there should be a reasonable chance of survival, maybe minus 90+% of your HP but still.
e. keep it zerg-unfriendly-it's nice to have a system where the mages, rangers, and other distance DD have a meaningful place other than hitting some stupid !! proc, but instead of it being the 1-shot AoE maybe give mobs high counter rates , potent spikes, damage auras, make them evasive as all hell and the like
f. tie the rewards to other than DD, maybe to successful actions taken and the like-if you make it support role required the support players should have as good of chance at the rewards as the DD.
g. lose the entrance fee, dynamis is fine with a KI for entry, WoE should be as well.
h. make decent synthesized Atmas for having beaten each WoE triad and a REALLY good one for having beaten all of them.

those are just off the top of my head, and all assuming that you don't basically redesign as radically as you did Dynamis 2.0.

Oh, and keep us in the loop with definate timetables and the like so those of us willing to take the ghetto empy on certain jobs don't start the full one on the basis of no meaningful chance of building the ghetto. Once you pass that point you are stuck after all, unless you want to start over from scratch.

[Kaisha]

:cool:
Give this man a bone.
Preferably the Pashhow/Grauberg entrance so we can do PW without hassling a WHM for recall also, since you can warp to main WoE from that mission/provenance segment.

[Luvbunny]

This definitely need a DIRECT teleport to Xarcabard S, more delicious rewards, and toss in some of the Voidwatch most wanted drops like HMP and they will have a win. Also need faster skill ups gains in there. Please put a book buffs inside WoE lobby where people can use points (FoV or GoV) to warp back to their home points or country nations of origins, plus protect shell buffs, and some sort of brew/displacer for those who wants to solo-small group. Make it more convenience please.

[Lollerblades]

On Rag it mainly comes to life when the JP come out to play ! Any other time very hard to find a group

[Dreamin]

Evidence backing this up?

It's like saying your chance at voidwatch gear is exactly the same at 100% red as it is at 550% red (capped lights). And while some of the gear has such a low drop rate as it feels like it doesn't matter, light levels most definitely do matter.

Also if the pet jobs are circle jerking around the boss, only they get points, everyone else just gets screwed.

I've gotten scrolls like Comet (which used to sell well when they 1st came out along with some of the ja scrolls), Windbuffet Belts, Scopuli Nails (just got one this weekend when I ran in late on BLM and only gotten ~4k of exp), etc with scores as low as ~4k. I've also gotten nothing but Ores/Logs with scores as high as 12k (capped). You can asked ppl who does WoE on any regular basis and you'll find that this is what people has experienced. [You can feel free to check my this past weekend's ah activity - you'll see that I've also gotten a Holy 2 and Blizzard 5 - those are from ~6k-8k xp run this weekend when I was BLM the whole time trying to cap my dark skill. Next time I'll take some SS for you if you need to see 'proof'.]

You're also wrong that melees is hard to get points. In fact, melees gets points a lot faster than any mages. I've went in as NIN and just do the ws-death-raise cycle (and even while weakened) and came out with capped xp. Same for PUP, DNC, etc. The trick there is to know that you just need to spam JA/Items/WS/actions on these jobs, similar to how Campaign/Besieged scored you. With the auto-RR now, there's no longer any fear of dying and having to HP so that is the best strategy to get xp (or you can just do enough and then just semi-afk til it's over, you always see a few ppl do just that in WoE).

[I'm not suggesting that how it should be "played" but just telling you how you can get "points" quick. No different than going to Besieged, used all your JA, pop your 2hr and then use all items and revit, rinse and repeat and you can get capped xp as a naked underleveled any job of your choice. Without ever having to engage any mob or healing or doing anything to any NPCs/other players.]

[Kaisha]

I could also really go for some Devious Die/Liminal Residue pouches added to all Walks so I can finish this WoE weapon I got without spending an absolute fortune on something that's pale compared to a 90 Emp.