TH activation rumour

[Babekeke]

Everyone I speak to keeps saying how they've heard that you have to get a TH proc, or there is no TH on it. Anyone have any idea where this rumour came from? or is it just a case of the stupid POIDH attitude, so people don't believe that there's any TH on a mob if they don't see it with their own eyes?

Personally I have my hands and feet in my pull macro so I hit (or miss) with ranged attack, then swap out my TH gear, and obviously each proc thereafter is always 7 (no knife/atma/kupower), 8 (1 of knife/atma/kupower) or 9 (knife and either atma or kupower), even though the TH gear is not equipped.

The other thing I hear is that if you have multiple THFs, 1 wearing TH7, the others not, if the other THFs get first proc it can be less than 7. The way I understand TH to work, this can't happen. Thoughts?

[Byrth]

No, they're dumb.

Here are some rumors about TH that are unfortunately more likely to be accurate:
1) TH can only activate on the first hit of an attack round.
2) The odds of TH proccing are proportional to your current TH level (in gear/traits) and the next TH level. So someone with TH7 in gear will upgrade to TH8 at approximately the same rate that someone with TH4 in gear will upgrade to TH5.
3) The upgrade rate decreases as you get to a higher and higher TH level. So someone with TH4 in gear will have a harder time going from TH5 to TH6 than from TH4 to TH5.

1+2+3) In order to have the maximum upgrade rate, you need to TP in TH gear singlewielding TK.

I prefer your rumors to mine, unfortunately. GL Thieves!

[Babekeke]

1+2+3) In order to have the maximum upgrade rate, you need to TP in TH gear singlewielding TK.

This is not good news >.>

Alternatively TPing in a 150 delay dagger and shield would also increase chances, since you'll get more attack rounds.

[Byrth]

Additional Effect proc rates are proportional to weapon delay (before Haste?), so it's unclear that your delay actually matters.

I still have no idea how new Feint works, lol.

[SpankWustler]

1+2+3) In order to have the maximum upgrade rate, you need to TP in TH gear singlewielding TK.

This also unlocks a special animation. Rather than stabbing the monster, one's character will furiously flail on it with balled hands while screaming "Why, God?! Why is this?! WHY?!" over and over. After defeating each monster, the character will fall to his or her knees and howl obscenities at an indifferent sky.

On the bright side, much like taking comfort in nihilism while setting someone's car on fire, it's comforting to know that Treasure Hunter upgrades have almost no effect.

[hiko]

No, they're dumb.

Here are some rumors about TH that are unfortunately more likely to be accurate:
1) TH can only activate on the first hit of an attack round.
2) The odds of TH proccing are proportional to your current TH level (in gear/traits) and the next TH level. So someone with TH7 in gear will upgrade to TH8 at approximately the same rate that someone with TH4 in gear will upgrade to TH5.
3) The upgrade rate decreases as you get to a higher and higher TH level. So someone with TH4 in gear will have a harder time going from TH5 to TH6 than from TH4 to TH5.

1+2+3) In order to have the maximum upgrade rate, you need to TP in TH gear singlewielding TK.

I prefer your rumors to mine, unfortunately. GL Thieves!

4) Damage dealt with either the "Sneak Attack" or "Trick Attack" ability will have a greater likelihood of enhancing this trait.

1+2+3+4, SA TA in TH gear.(less loss than full mele)

question about SA TA TH proc bonus is: does it stack?

[Arcon]

Additional Effect proc rates are proportional to weapon delay (before Haste?), so it's unclear that your delay actually matters.

Wow, does that hold for all/most additional effects? This is my first time hearing it.


4) Damage dealt with either the "Sneak Attack" or "Trick Attack" ability will have a greater likelihood of enhancing this trait.

This is not a rumor, though. It's been confirmed by SE.


question about SA TA TH proc bonus is: does it stack?

Good question. I may do some testing for that.

[SpankWustler]

Wow, does that hold for all/most additional effects? This is my first time hearing it.

It's true for the entire line of Magian weapons with additional effects, at the very least. I think someone looking at parses from a handful of those is how such a correlation was originally discovered, actually, although I may be remembering incorrectly and that was just the first I heard of it.

The mechanic is not confirmed for every additional effect in Final Fantasy XI and there are probably some outliers such as Twilight Scythe, but it has shown up often enough to be a safe enough bet when dealing with a "sometimes" additional effect.

That's pretty much all I know. I'd like to hear more about this, too, actually.

[Lokithor]

You forgot the biggest rumor of all. The fact that TH above level 3 or 4 is next to useless anyway in terms of impact on drop rates so don't fret about TH procs.

[Babekeke]

Wow, does that hold for all/most additional effects? This is my first time hearing it.

Delay certainly has an effect on drain sambas. Less HP drained with less delay. Never really paid any attention to random proc effects though.

[Bulrogg]

Rumor: If THF dies you must re-apply Treasure Hunter.

[Byrth]

Rumor: If THF dies you must re-apply Treasure Hunter.

Untrue. I've also had the SSR boss go Idle (but not regen due to Dia II) and not lose TH.

TH8 + Dia II -> Brainjacked myself and my mule -> TH9 on the re-engaging SA.

[Arukia]

Does TH apply as long as thf is in exp range? or do they need to hit at least once on the mob?

[Dragoy]

Everyone I speak to keeps saying how they've heard that you have to get a TH proc, or there is no TH on it. Anyone have any idea where this rumour came from? or is it just a case of the stupid POIDH attitude, so people don't believe that there's any TH on a mob if they don't see it with their own eyes?

Pretty much already answered there, but yeah, this is just not true, and for the unbelievers it should be easy to confirm themselves if they do something like this:


Use whatever action on a monster (attack it, use a job ability, what ever) with gear that enhances Treasure Hunter equipped, such as the Thief's Knife.
Remove Thief's Knife and continue attacking until the additional effect activates.
Make note of the Treasure Hunter level.

As for where it came from, well, where do rumours usually come from? ^^;

Even the SqEX staff have confirmed that a Thief need only act upon a target, be it auto-attack or a job ability to have the effect applied.


Personally I have my hands and feet in my pull macro so I hit (or miss) with ranged attack, then swap out my TH gear, and obviously each proc thereafter is always 7 (no knife/atma/kupower), 8 (1 of knife/atma/kupower) or 9 (knife and either atma or kupower), even though the TH gear is not equipped.

Indeed, the level is 'set' to the highest current level with the gear and traits, from where we get to:


The other thing I hear is that if you have multiple THFs, 1 wearing TH7, the others not, if the other THFs get first proc it can be less than 7. The way I understand TH to work, this can't happen. Thoughts?

The highest will prevail, so when the enhancement activates, it should be 8 in that case.


Arukia,

See above. ^^

I do believe they will additionally need to stay within the range to receive Experience Points though I have not personally tested that.

[CapriciousOne]

Wow, does that hold for all/most additional effects? This is my first time hearing it.



Personally I believe that is absolute bs depending on the additional effect in question. For instance weapons with white magic effects like silence and paralyze seem to proc more with increases to your MND stat and stuff like hp/mp drain seemed to proc more with increases to INT. For other effects I dont know but i highly doubt delay is a factor in any case. At least this has been my experience when using foods and equipment that boost those stats and additional effect weapons.

[Esvedium]

Does TH apply as long as thf is in exp range? or do they need to hit at least once on the mob?

The THF must perform an action against the mob to get TH on it. Being in range isn't good enough.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Personally I believe that is absolute bs depending on the additional effect in question. For instance weapons with white magic effects like silence and paralyze seem to proc more with increases to your MND stat and stuff like hp/mp drain seemed to proc more with increases to INT. For other effects I dont know but i highly doubt delay is a factor in any case. At least this has been my experience when using foods and equipment that boost those stats and additional effect weapons.

Please post your testing of this, or stop blowing hot air

[Ophannus]

Soloing in Dyna every day on THF I noticed its way more difficult to proc TH 8 from TH7 than it is to proc TH 4 from TH3. TH4 from TH3 happens in the first few attack rounds on THF but if I pull with all my TH gear on i very rarely see an upgrade from TH7 to TH8. I think the higher the TH is, the lower the chance of upgrading.

[Delvish]

Soloing in Dyna every day on THF I noticed its way more difficult to proc TH 8 from TH7 than it is to proc TH 4 from TH3. TH4 from TH3 happens in the first few attack rounds on THF but if I pull with all my TH gear on i very rarely see an upgrade from TH7 to TH8. I think the higher the TH is, the lower the chance of upgrading.

It could've been something of a random occurance, but my most successful day in Dynamis was the day before Conquest tally when I had my TH gloves in for upgrading. Down to only TH on the boots, I got more Forgottens and over-all currency during that one day of TH4 in Dynamis than I have any time since then as I move up to TH6.

Also I have a rumor to contribute. Certain TH levels have a negative effect. Seriously, whenever I hit TH8 in Dynamis even with a stagger, I typically receive 1 piece of currency.

[Llana_Virren]

Was farming HQ organs in sea last night; every TH5+ gave no drops; went 18 mobs straight without a drop of any kind (to include crystals <.<)

[Babekeke]

Also I have a rumor to contribute. Certain TH levels have a negative effect. Seriously, whenever I hit TH8 in Dynamis even with a stagger, I typically receive 1 piece of currency.

I'm sure I speculated on something similar to this when they first changed TH. I said it seemed to be like COR rolls, with more power from certain levels of TH, but not scaling as you would expect. Devs did post their testing of TH9 vs TH10 thugh and 10 was better than 9, they said. But that doesn't necessarily mean that 8 is better than 7 ;p

[TLGrunt]

Forgive me if it might drift off topic a tad, but i heard that th is simular to dropping marbles into a spinning roulette table, if the table has ie. 10 slots and slot #6 is ,lets just say a O. Bronze piece, th 1-12 would equal to additional marbles added to the table respectively to score slot #6..... the other idea (and probably more favored) i hear is that th simply increases drop % XD. Can someone pls clear that for me? Other than that it sounds like an added level of th should always increase chances theorectically right?

[Arcon]

Forgive me if it might drift off topic a tad, but i heard that th is simular to dropping marbles into a spinning roulette table, if the table has ie. 10 slots and slot #6 is ,lets just say a O. Bronze piece, th 1-12 would equal to additional marbles added to the table respectively to score slot #6..... the other idea (and probably more favored) i hear is that th simply increases drop % XD. Can someone pls clear that for me? Other than that it sounds like an added level of th should always increase chances theorectically right?

The first scenario you described is simply a reroll, which is the currently accepted behavior of TH1 and TH2 (i.e. TH1 gives one extra chance (or marble in your scenario) to get the drop, TH2 gives two extra chances). However, higher tier TH values don't follow the same formula, and seem to give a static increase in drop rate. The exact behavior is still not understood, but every rumor about TH decreasing for certain values is completely ridiculous in my eyes and I wouldn't pay it any attention at all.

[Babekeke]

every rumor about TH decreasing for certain values is completely ridiculous in my eyes and I wouldn't pay it any attention at all.

Oh, I agree, but sometimes enough coincidences do make you think ;)

[Dragoy]

I tend to get stuff like the Virtuoso Belt etc. better without TH at all hehe.

Meaning I could defeat a certain monster with similar item over 10 times as a Thief, then do it as something else and get the loot. It's what this game is after all mostly about what comes to mechanics: luck.

That being said, I mostly go as a Thief if I intend to go after certain items en masse, i.e., more items per time altogether (hundreds of kills versus one kill per 2-10+ hours). So in my case, any Treasure Hunter level might actually work in opposite ways from the intended due to my luck basically dividing it with zarro.

What was I talking about?
Oh yeah... nothing!

[Muse]

Everyone I speak to keeps saying how they've heard that you have to get a TH proc, or there is no TH on it. Anyone have any idea where this rumour came from? or is it just a case of the stupid POIDH attitude, so people don't believe that there's any TH on a mob if they don't see it with their own eyes?

I'm not sure how the rumor started, but I have heard it myself while playing in Gusgen as a mule. A person flat out told me that TH2 was there base... At lvl15 THF... So I'm just going to assume it's the newer people making these rumors and/or people not believing it till they see it as you said. The TH is there without a proc message.




The other thing I hear is that if you have multiple THFs, 1 wearing TH7, the others not, if the other THFs get first proc it can be less than 7. The way I understand TH to work, this can't happen. Thoughts?

This is false. I have done a few events with others THF's (me TH7 them TH5-6) and even when they landed the first hit, the first proc message for TH was TH8. The highest TH sticks much like a higher level spells overwriting lower level ones.

[Babekeke]

Having just spent a while doing kings for BB items, I'm fairly sure that the chance of getting a TH proc is higher, the higher your own TH equipped is.

If I start with TH7 and then swap gear to normal melee gear TH3 or 4 depending if I swap knife or not, the chances are that the fight ended up with TH8 or 9. If I full-time TH7, it seemed to rise faster and higher chance that it ended up on 11 or 12.

I've also taken to full-timing TH gear in dynamis until I get proc too. Apart from anything else (and it might just be placebo anyway) it reduces the chance of killing the mob before it's procced.

[Arcon]

My formal testing for that has been limited, but the results so far do point that way. The chance to upgrade seems to depend on the TH level difference between what's currently on the mob and what the THF has on when the hit occurs. The bigger the gap, the lower the chance. But I'm still working on determining exact formulas.

[Delvish]

I've also taken to full-timing TH gear in dynamis until I get proc too. Apart from anything else (and it might just be placebo anyway) it reduces the chance of killing the mob before it's procced.

I find myself doing this before proc as well, though less for the killing efficiency and more for the evasion so I can put less evasion in other places.

As for the difference in TH levels, I must agree. I find (excluding feint) I have a much higher frequency of increasing TH pre-proc when I'm wearing full TH than post-proc when I'm wearing almost none.

[Frost]

Relevant for this post, I just happen to stumble in here, and have recently been trying to make my life easier and make sets that are conducive to actions that would add TH during Dynamis specifically. Bare with me for these are exceptionally subjective, and uncatalogued observations; but they may none-the-less point someone in the right direction for research.

As of right now, I 'found my solution' and stick with it atm to great results.

Test 1:
Question: Does having TH on "pulling gear" ad the full TH value?
Answer: Yes
Methodology: Pulled a mob in Dynamis in full TH gear, proceeded to melee monster until I saw a 'TH proc', it was always 1 higher than the TH level of the pulling gear.

Problem: I sometimes have 2+ monsters on me; pulling resulted from just changing target, and using the ranged macro at that time was inefficient.

Solution: Add TH gear to my Step/Flourish macros in order to trigger TH on those actions.

Question: Does adding TH gear to Step and/or flourish add TH to the monster at the proper level?
Answer: No, unfortunately.
Methodology: Same as before, I thought maybe violent flourish might because it actually did physical damage to the monster. But time and time again, I was let down.

OBSERVATION WHILE DOING TESTS: It was fuck-all getting that frigging TH proc while in 'Normal TP Gear'. Sometimes it'd be three+ monsters before I'd see a proc...

I'd asked this question before if the level of TH affected the Rate as well as the Potency of the procs on TH... And As much as I hate to say it out loud knowing it's going to damn me into wearing sub-par gear during events... The more TH+ you have the more frequently it seems to proc.

Question: Does TH gear add to the frequency of procs on monsters?
Answer: Observations lean towards yes.
Methodology: This is shakey at best but me and my girlfriend both went out as thieves to kill Ruszors, she was in my "Dynamis build", while I was full DD. We'd typically fight different monsters, and in the hour we farmed I proc'd 4 times to her 21.

Problems with this:
1) Not all procs are visible. (WS etc...)
2) Kill times/experience were not the same.

My current set that seems to allow me to get at least one "promotion" per monster is as follows.

Thokcha(evasion), Rapidus Sax(for the haste really), Chakram(Agi and Evasion)
Zelus, Triecel, Suppa, Brutal
Thaumas, Asn.Armlets+2, Rajas, Eponas
Atheling, Twilight Belt, Raider's Coulotte, Raider's Poulaines.

That build is "For Dynamis"... It gets the job done, so keep the fire to a simmer if you must be a cock-wad...
I will prolly drop the Raider Pants for Thaumas if I ever get lucky in Nizzle ever again, which should free up my offhand for a better dagger.

Either way, it's full haste, full TH, decent evasion.

So my current question I am working on is this:

Is it better to kill faster right now at a lower TH? Or take a slight hit on damage/kill speed for more TH?

Atm I am partnered up with an exceptional Melee Whm, we go and wreck shit, Skillchain every fight, I alternate SA and TA every fight and we keep haste samba up close to 80% of the time. (killing one monster about every 30 seconds) increasing my kill speed might not net me anything at this time to be honest. She's a Kraken in the offhand, and that makes up for casting haste etc, but all in all we're pretty in sync, so increasing my damage doesnt' really offer anything to the situation.

Outside of Dynamis however, or if you're solo... My question stands with a little more relevance, but the times where you're grinding through a stream of trash mobs for drops these days are pretty non-existant; and where relevant the boost to TH-proc from SA/TA (+/- Feint) is more than sufficient. (Especially when SA/TA is now coupled with TH gear).

TL/DR: If you trust my judgment... TP in TH gear on trash mobs if you need drops from them, and find a set that caps haste/TH. SA/TA in TH gear when you can on "important stuff".

[Babekeke]

Question: Does having TH on "pulling gear" ad the full TH value?
Answer: Yes
Methodology: Pulled a mob in Dynamis in full TH gear, proceeded to melee monster until I saw a 'TH proc', it was always 1 higher than the TH level of the pulling gear.

Correct, even if the ranged attack misses, and you swap into tp gear before attacking the mob.


Problem: I sometimes have 2+ monsters on me; pulling resulted from just changing target, and using the ranged macro at that time was inefficient.

My solution to this is simply that if I have a link, I generally want to swap to eva gear anyway. My eva gear is full TH so I just make sure the first hit on the link is in Eva gear still.


Question: Does TH gear add to the frequency of procs on monsters?
Answer: Observations lean towards yes.
Methodology: This is shakey at best but me and my girlfriend both went out as thieves to kill Ruszors, she was in my "Dynamis build", while I was full DD. We'd typically fight different monsters, and in the hour we farmed I proc'd 4 times to her 21.

This confirms the theories of myself and others.


Problems with this:
1) Not all procs are visible. (WS etc...)

I have an issue with this...
SE announced that TH can proc during WS about 6 months ago iirc? Since then I have NEVER EVER EVER had my TH go up by 2 when fighting a mob, where the first proc had occurred during a WS. Am I the only one?


My current set that seems to allow me to get at least one "promotion" per monster is as follows.

Thokcha(evasion), Rapidus Sax(for the haste really), Chakram(Agi and Evasion)
Zelus, Triecel, Suppa, Brutal
Thaumas, Asn.Armlets+2, Rajas, Eponas
Atheling, Twilight Belt, Raider's Coulotte, Raider's Poulaines.

If you make a set to gimp yourself melee-wise specifically trying to get 1 TH proc, just full-time thief's knife and start with a higher base TH. Personally I full-time Thief's Knife (in Dynamis), and wear TH gear until I proc, then I return to regular TP set to kill.
Also remember that killing faster than you can proc !! is negative in dynamis, since !! gives you more than even the highest TH.


Either way, it's full haste, full TH, decent evasion.

Apart from Thief's knife >.>


So my current question I am working on is this:

Is it better to kill faster right now at a lower TH? Or take a slight hit on damage/kill speed for more TH?

Faster at lower TH.

Proc !! > kill speed > TH


Outside of Dynamis however, or if you're solo... My question stands with a little more relevance, but the times where you're grinding through a stream of trash mobs for drops these days are pretty non-existant; and where relevant the boost to TH-proc from SA/TA (+/- Feint) is more than sufficient. (Especially when SA/TA is now coupled with TH gear).

TL/DR: If you trust my judgment... TP in TH gear on trash mobs if you need drops from them, and find a set that caps haste/TH. SA/TA in TH gear when you can on "important stuff".

For trash, unless the respawn is longer than it takes me to kill them all, I'll tag with TH then zerg them down. For the likes of Aspid and other ground kings/sky kings or anything else that it can take you a long time to get a new pop for (or long respawn, like Tiamat)... full-time TH.

[Arcon]

I sold my Thief's Knife when I was done with Behemoths and I have never needed it since. Unless there's a particularly rare mob with a certain drop you wanna get, there's really no need for it. Get TH6 on once and then kill quickly. Won't regret it, I don't.

[Babekeke]

I sold my Thief's Knife when I was done with Behemoths and I have never needed it since. Unless there's a particularly rare mob with a certain drop you wanna get, there's really no need for it. Get TH6 on once and then kill quickly. Won't regret it, I don't.

Unless I'm solo, killing it quickly is generally not an issue anyway as there are DDs there with empys/relics that are going to do that job irrelevant of what I'm wearing.

If I am solo, unless I just procced a mob in dyna on the first proc, 1 WS is going to kill it pretty much, so what do I gain from a better off-hand knife?

Answer: very little.

What do I gain from Thief's knife?

Answer: also very little.

six and 2 threes

[CapriciousOne]

Please post your testing of this, or stop blowing hot air


Sorry for the delay in response been busy as of late to check these forums but personally I am too impatient to sit down take notes and post on here for your convenience or to convince you or anybody else of anything. From what I seen even with me posting the testing these forums have a way of trying to find someway to discredit any postings anyway.

If you really want to see you can just do your own testing and see for yourself since you seem to already decided in your mind that it isnt a possibility of being correct even a little bit. In fact I think I even read this somewhere if I can find it again.

At this point of end game development everybody should have enough stat boosting gear to test this on thier own rather easily. The main factor in additional effects on weapons procing is the relative level of the mob to your job and maybe even the level of the weapon in question. This can be easily and quickly noticed with magian weapons since most are level 75 -99 depending on your level of progression through the trials.

You can easily test it out by counting the number of procs before the death of mobs that are between your weapon/job level and again on mobs below the level of your weapon. It will clearly show that you will get a higher number of activatations of the additional effect on mobs below the weapon level than above it.

Afterwards you can also follow it up by equipping a gear set with little or no stat boost to INT for elemental based additional effects and MND for status effect based additional effects. This should also demonstratethat the number of times the status effect additional effects proc while it is actively in effect on the mob before it wears off will increase as well ad the damage amount of elemental based additional effects will increase as well. Now whether or not the difference is huge or not is debatable since people expectations and standards vary greatly.

You can even take it a step further if you have Dark Knight leveld high enough and utilize the Absorb-INT/MND stat spells or WHM Boost and RDM Gain stat spells. Now how much INT/MND it takes to make a noticeable difference is another issue as well but obviously more is better.

Now I will recant a little about delay being a factor but only in the numerical sense that more swings equal more procs so additional effects on daggers will have more chances of procing than say a greatsword or scythe with or without haste but the move long winded response is a greater factor than delay in my humble opinion.

[Arcon]

If I am solo, unless I just procced a mob in dyna on the first proc, 1 WS is going to kill it pretty much, so what do I gain from a better off-hand knife?

Answer: very little.

Very noticeable. How fast you kill the mob does not matter in the calculations at all, even if you take a mob that takes ten minutes to die. Because to be able to kill a mob with one weapon skill, you need to get 100% TP first. The melee phase is just spread out over a larger mob pool on average, but it's still there and still in the same proportion to the WS damage. Also, there's offhand weapons that can significantly improve your WS damage as well (STR Thokcha or Aluh Jambiya for example).

And your answer seems to be limited by your playstyle. I do almost everything except new group events on THF. I tanked Oldin with it, all sky gods and several Jailers, I regularly farm Limbus and Salvage, and very rarely do mobs die with one weapon skill. I don't do Dynamis, so it may be different there, but even if it is, that's still a very limited point of view.

[Babekeke]

And your answer seems to be limited by your playstyle. I do almost everything except new group events on THF. I tanked Oldin with it, all sky gods and several Jailers, I regularly farm Limbus and Salvage, and very rarely do mobs die with one weapon skill. I don't do Dynamis, so it may be different there, but even if it is, that's still a very limited point of view.

Dynamis IS very different, or at least it can be. You don't want to kill the mobs before you proc it. Some mobs can be a pain in the ass to proc. Some mobs are so much of a pain in the ass to proc, that they are so close to death by the time you procced that you don't even use WS because you got them to 5% then turned.

Generally speaking, unless you get 2-3 mobs in a row that proc first JA, you don't get much out of a better off-hand. The occasional fast proc can be countered with reverse flourish for a fast kill.

Outside of dynamis:

Trash mob farming - this really depends on how much HP they have. Some mobs will have just the right amount of HP that meleeing in thief's knife to 100% then WS will kill a mob. In this case, using a better off-hand will mean that you melee to 100% then either over-kill with ws, or continue to melee a little more to kill mob then use ws on next mob. This won't work out much (if at all) faster, so you might as well stay with thief's knife.
If however, meleeing to 100%TP then WS doesn't quite kill the mob, in this case it is more efficient to use a better off-hand, if it now allows you to kill a mob in 100%TP then ws.
Another instance, is if the mob you are fighting has high accuracy. Now it might be more efficient (particularly if solo) to use an eva dagger to get hit less, or a DD or Oynos dageger for faster kill speed to get hit less.

Limbus: Solo I use eva dagger, in a duo/small group I use triplus. Here, gimping kill speed (in some areas at least) can mean needing to choose a TE over an items chest, so you just lost any benefit that extra TH gave you anyway.

Salvage: I've never solo'd salvage, but usually duo with a BST. I use thief's knife off-hand unless it looks like we'll run short on time (never happened so far, but can get unlucky with a ranged cell). Killing faster than 99 minutes doesn't net you any reward other than moving along to your next money-making event, since there are a finite number of mobs that can drop alexandrite.

Abyssea: This really depends on how many other DDs we have, how quickly we can farm new pops etc. If we have so many DDs that my damage equates to only 5% of the overall damage, what difference does it make if I swap out for thief's knife and TH gear and reduce my damage to 4% of the overall damage? Other times I might just be farming pop items for others to go ahead and pop the red proc mobs. In this case I'll use a DD off-hand unless the drop rate falls frustratingly low.

Different situations call for different actions.

[Delvish]

Interesting. So the general TH debate will now turn from full-timing THF knife or not, to full-timing TH gear or not. Tag and swap works for killing speed, but when it is something big, more TH could go a long way. After all, thanks to the general testing it seems TH does infact proc more frequently based upon current equipped TH levels. The comparison of 4 TH procs with TP gear to 21 TH procs with TH gear is pretty substantial, so it really comes down to how much those higher levels of TH help. Going to need some considerable numbers testing to confirm.

[Komori]

This might be a really noobish question but is the "fight on lightsday" or "Boost-CHR" rumor or fact? I remember being with a few mercenaries once and they believed fighting monsters on lightsday and boosting CHR also allowed you to get more TH procs overall and I know that Assassin's Armlets +2 have CHR+7? On them, is there perhaps any connection? Sorry, if it's already common knowledge or not but I wanted to know!

[Nawesemo]

Bump for curiosity, and I dig rumors vs knowledge threads.

[Arcon]

This might be a really noobish question but is the "fight on lightsday" or "Boost-CHR" rumor or fact? I remember being with a few mercenaries once and they believed fighting monsters on lightsday and boosting CHR also allowed you to get more TH procs overall and I know that Assassin's Armlets +2 have CHR+7? On them, is there perhaps any connection? Sorry, if it's already common knowledge or not but I wanted to know!

I would bet big chunks of money that this is complete bullshit. Sadly it's almost impossible to prove/disprove it. Would require lots if dedicated testing for something I'm pretty much sure is wrong, and I'm sure other people feel the same way. So unlikely it will ever get actually tested.

[Babekeke]

I would bet big chunks of money that this is complete bullshit. Sadly it's almost impossible to prove/disprove it. Would require lots if dedicated testing for something I'm pretty much sure is wrong, and I'm sure other people feel the same way. So unlikely it will ever get actually tested.

I second this notion.

As for the CHR, THF has had fairly good CHR all along, and one of our primary WS is 30% CHR based (DE). It also has enmity properties (slower decay iirc?) which assists THF for tanking. CHR also possibly affects intimidation rates for Bully?

[Vold]

This might be a really noobish question but is the "fight on lightsday" or "Boost-CHR" rumor or fact? I remember being with a few mercenaries once and they believed fighting monsters on lightsday and boosting CHR also allowed you to get more TH procs overall and I know that Assassin's Armlets +2 have CHR+7? On them, is there perhaps any connection? Sorry, if it's already common knowledge or not but I wanted to know!
I'll be more than happy to put it to the test on some turtle kills. My experience has always been TH9-11 without fail by the end so it shouldn't be terribly hard to give it a seal of approval if I start getting something like TH15 during lightsday and lots of CHR, on multiple kills. I'm much easier to please than the "must be over 9000!" crowd so I will feel perfectly comfortable deciding one way or another after like 5 kills or whatever.

It's a simple test, really. Not like it's drop rate testing. But I'll admit my chances of doing further tests after a poor first kill will go down the drain. If it's true I will fully expect to see the difference right off the bat. And if it doesn't impress me yet it's still true because it's just a small increase in procs then it doesn't really matter at that point because we won't have no way of knowing nor will we really care and would sooner stick with what we know than worry about yet another set of gear to carry around everywhere. So, if I see interesting results I'll report back. If I never report back it means the results I saw wasn't worth my time typing up a paragraph explaining how this theoryTHing tale is fail.

[Komori]

Didn't mean to make anyone angry, was just something I saw someone use the method once. Occassionally like on the Kings to try and sell it's drops etc.

[Nawesemo]

Didn't mean to make anyone angry, was just something I saw someone use the method once. Occassionally like on the Kings to try and sell it's drops etc.

you'd have thought the development team threatened to nerf their treasure hunter eh? >.> see what I did there? ;)

[Arcon]

I'm much easier to please than the "must be over 9000!" crowd so I will feel perfectly comfortable deciding one way or another after like 5 kills or whatever.

There's no "over 9000 or else" crowd. It's just statistics. 5 kills means literally nothing. If you get 5/5 on a drop there's still a decent chance it's only a 50% drop. It's a fact that you need a high number of kills to accurately justify a claim, especially one such as that, because the probability to get a TH upgrade is already very low, so any modification to it will be small regardless of the effect.

Also, Assassin's Armlets had CHR on them long before the TH upgrades were implemented. It's extremely unlikely it's related to TH in any way.

[Karbuncle]

Not to mention CHR has been the base of countless Speculation, all of which was proven garbage. With that said, Would like to mention, CHR is thfs worst stat, Throwing that out there.

On top of all else, Don't believe most rumors you hear, As they're nothing more than how most Ancient Religions began. "The Sun goes across the sky, Must be being pulled by a Chariot!". When people are too dumb and stubborn to understand something, or its simply just out of their logical/intellectual grasp, They make up hocus pocus to try and explain it.

This is true even in FFXI, So the next time you hear someone tell you that you need to Mainhand THF's knife, or you have to see a proc for it to actually be on the mob, Or that CHR/Lightsday Effects rate without any proof other than "Shut Up I'm right"... Just feel pity, Cause they're probably incredibly stupid. Or at the very least, Logically impaired.

While typing this I'm realizing I'm drawing eerie parallels from another ageless Internet debate.

[Frost]

Am I blind? Personally I cannot recall ever procing TH on either an offhand hit or a DA/TA/QA hit...

Before I go try to test it later, been to busy to Thief... anyone know off the top of thier heads? Even anecdotally is fine.

(And yeah, i will likely get an answer here before I get a chance to test it.)

[Babekeke]

So the next time you hear someone tell you that you need to Mainhand THF's knife

I main-hand thf's knife if I want higher TH on a mob, but not because it increases the chance to proc or anything, just because it's so gimp, TH has more chances to proc before mob dies from SA/TAs as you're not doing as much damage ;p


Am I blind? Personally I cannot recall ever procing TH on either an offhand hit or a DA/TA/QA hit...

Before I go try to test it later, been to busy to Thief... anyone know off the top of thier heads? Even anecdotally is fine.

(And yeah, i will likely get an answer here before I get a chance to test it.)

1st hit of the attack round only. (I have no proof to back this up. I have never done any testing or parsing, but it is fact.)

[Arcon]

Am I blind? Personally I cannot recall ever procing TH on either an offhand hit or a DA/TA/QA hit...

I actually tested this, the upgrade rate single wielding and dual wielding with a shitload of DA/TA/QA on is the same per round. So it can only upgrade once per attack round. And in dozens of tests it never happened on another hit, and it never happened when the first hit missed, so that's a fair assumption. Although my sample of missed first hits is not exceedingly high, but I also don't remember it ever happening outside of those tests, and I usually pay good attention to the log. So best way to upgrade TH quickly is to single-wield a Thief's Knife and have at it.

Oh, and current testing points towards delay not playing a role in the upgrade chance, although I only tested it in limited circumstances so far. I'll expand upon it and present the findings when I get the time, but I'm pretty sure delay is not a factor in it. And neither is damage dealt with the upgrading hit, in case anyone is wondering.

[Vold]

I lied about not reporting back with failure. TH11 during lightsday and +12 CHR. Didn't really go out of my way to stack the CHR but I don't feel compelled to bother any further with the lightsday/chr theory.

For the record, I did not bother using feint to taint my outcome because I have never killed the turtle post feint changes. With that said, I also for the first time tried out full timing TH gear which pretty much nullifies my reasons for not using feint but eh I was after at least a red pondweed drop for my trouble. That didn't increase my usual TH effectiveness on turtle, either. Maybe I should kill a few more times just to be sure but ya know what... I'm just getting too damn old to care. Take what I've done for what it's worth. Even just one kill with failure is enough for me to move on. I won't lose any sleep if the theory turns out fact. It'd be so little of a boost that it's not worth worrying about.

[Delvish]

The only issue I have with your test voldymoldy is that you simultaniously tested two theories, so we have either a positive on the CHR test or a positive on the TH gear full-time test. Naturally I lean towards the TH gear, but who knows.

[Arcon]

The only issue I have with your test voldymoldy is that you simultaniously tested two theories, so we have either a positive on the CHR test or a positive on the TH gear full-time test. Naturally I lean towards the TH gear, but who knows.

I think his "test" showed that it had no effect (he mentioned getting TH9-11 regularly before), so it's neither the one nor the other. Statistically, though, it says absolutely nothing anyway.

[Babekeke]

I'll be more than happy to put it to the test on some turtle kills. My experience has always been TH9-11 without fail


I lied about not reporting back with failure. TH11 during lightsday and +12 CHR.

I also for the first time tried out full timing TH gear which pretty much nullifies my reasons for not using feint but eh I was after at least a red pondweed drop for my trouble. That didn't increase my usual TH effectiveness on turtle, either.


The only issue I have with your test voldymoldy is that you simultaniously tested two theories, so we have either a positive on the CHR test or a positive on the TH gear full-time test. Naturally I lean towards the TH gear, but who knows.

It proved nothing what-so-ever. He did 1 kill and was at the higher end of his usual TH results.

The only thing that I can say has a definite impact on your end result when killing this mob:

If you kill it while you have 'Treasure Hound' Super Kupower, you will end up with a better TH than if you didn't have it while keeping everything else the same as you usually do, lol.

[Arcon]

If you kill it while you have 'Treasure Hound' Super Kupower, you will end up with a better TH than if you didn't have it while keeping everything else the same as you usually do, lol.

Treasure Hound simply adds 1 TH to whatever you currently have on.

[Delvish]

I think his "test" showed that it had no effect (he mentioned getting TH9-11 regularly before), so it's neither the one nor the other. Statistically, though, it says absolutely nothing anyway.

Yea, I suppose I jumped to conclusions. One test is not enough to accurately judge anything. I think I'll start recording my Dynamis run's TH procs and see where that gets me.

[Babekeke]

Treasure Hound simply adds 1 TH to whatever you currently have on.

Precisely my point.

[Nebo]

Really? in 2012 people still question how TH is applied? I understand the whole "we kinda think we know but we don't really know how TH effects drop rates" but to question at what point TH level has been applied is...wow.

As an aside, a frien of mine and I were talking and he told me that he had problems with applying TH when using steps first. IE his first action was to use a step on he mob in full TH gear, and then switch to DD gear, etc.

He said tha tmore often than not, he would get a lower level of TH than expected most of the time.

Is this because of the situation where two debuffs or en-type effects cannot be applied with the same melee hit/action? IE. Feint overrides samba effects et?

Thoughts?

[Arcon]

He said tha tmore often than not, he would get a lower level of TH than expected most of the time.

Is this because of the situation where two debuffs or en-type effects cannot be applied with the same melee hit/action? IE. Feint overrides samba effects et?

Thoughts?

It's possible. Neither steps nor flourishes seem to apply TH. Why that is I can't say. Could possibly be tested with other actions.

[Delvish]

It's possible. Neither steps nor flourishes seem to apply TH. Why that is I can't say. Could possibly be tested with other actions.
I think it may have something to do with TH being applied on attacks and not abilities. Best way to test is probably use bully and/or steal with TH gear on, then attack without TH gear and see what you get. If TH works, try with Jump because at that point it is because of support job abilities. My guess though is definitely that TH doesn't work with JA. Only attacks and RA.

[Arcon]

I think it may have something to do with TH being applied on attacks and not abilities. Best way to test is probably use bully and/or steal with TH gear on, then attack without TH gear and see what you get. If TH works, try with Jump because at that point it is because of support job abilities. My guess though is definitely that TH doesn't work with JA. Only attacks and RA.

TH is applied on both Bully and Provoke, so it's not because of JAs or because of subbed JAs.

[Dragoy]

Seems more like unintended behaviour than anything, that is, a bug, since they have stated that one only needs to act upon a target for Treasure Hunter to be in effect. Why would the dancer abilities be different?

I can't think of a reason.

Has it been tested only while fighting another target (or while not engaged), or for example, while engaged, yet standing back towards the target so that a step can be used as the first action?

[Babekeke]

I've only noticed it when I've had a link, used a step on the add since I was in dyna and mob I was fighting was procced. I used TH gear to step/flourish the add, then went back to regular gear to finish other mob off, but stayed in regular gear when I moved onto next mob. TH upgrades and it's only the upgrade from TP gear, not full TH.

That said, I've not tried it with my back to a mob and engaged.

[Dragoy]

Yeah, the very reason for thinking about that is that I imagine in most situations people are fighting one monster, and then using the steps or whatever actions on another, that is not their current (claimed) target.

[Starlyte]

Ok I totally stopped reading this and if I repeat anything I am sorry please forgive me my second character is a 99 thief its my favorite job and after countless hrs of swearing I was totally gimped cause th didn't land this is some things I do to help it one I stack s/a bully and feint in one macro with my thf gear of course 90 percent of time it lands but if not and your not alone I Ta someone which we all know that's nothing new. Another thing I noticed and experimented with was daggers I one I noticed have better proc rate with lower delayed daggers vs higher delay higher damage daggers . Because your constantly swingging also if it's something that has high Eva add some more acc gear most of this was mentioned but really its game of chance there is no right wrong way just always seems something don't drop and its thf's fault we all have been there but truly its not .also completely off topic on steal or despoil I have noticed higher success rate after using feint .once again if I said anything that was already posted sorry happy thieving :)

Also.forgot this when all else fails assasians charge seems to help if you.use it alone not Stacked with wepon.skill have gotten many procs using that way but really I Believe it's more of game of chance then science and I myself do everything to see th go off and any theif gets that .

[Arcon]

Ok I totally stopped reading this and if I repeat anything I am sorry please forgive me my second character is a 99 thief its my favorite job and after countless hrs of swearing I was totally gimped cause th didn't land this is some things I do to help it one I stack s/a bully and feint in one macro with my thf gear of course 90 percent of time it lands but if not and your not alone I Ta someone which we all know that's nothing new. Another thing I noticed and experimented with was daggers I one I noticed have better proc rate with lower delayed daggers vs higher delay higher damage daggers . Because your constantly swingging also if it's something that has high Eva add some more acc gear most of this was mentioned but really its game of chance there is no right wrong way just always seems something don't drop and its thf's fault we all have been there but truly its not .also completely off topic on steal or despoil I have noticed higher success rate after using feint .once again if I said anything that was already posted sorry happy thieving :)

First of all, TH always lands. You don't need to do anything for that. Only TH upgrades can "land". So even if you don't get the animation, TH is still on the mob.

Secondly, dagger delay plays no role in upgrade rate, other than the fact that lower delay daggers will yield more hits in the same time frame. But the chance on each hit is the same.

Finally, while it hasn't been formally disproved, it's very unlikely that Feint affects Steal, Mug or Despoil in any way. This is probably just eyeballing-error combined with confirmation bias.

[FenrirCandlejack]

It's been said: We must TP in TH gear in order to build TH at a steady rate. While dagger delay plays no role in how fast the rate goes, the amount of TH you have on is what affects it the most. However, that being said, unless SE does something (even a new offhand dagger that has TH+1 and better stats than TK on it), then I openly REFUSE to offhand TK. I will dual wield Thokchas, mainly for better stats and damage overall. I plan on buckling down after building Masa to make a Twashtar, but even after Twashtar is made, I will STILL refuse to use TK. TH+1 is not better than outputting a better amount of damage, and more of it.

[Delvish]

Just putting it out there, main-hand only beestinger is the best way to proc TH. I was tinkering around with it for fun off-handing a shield and found my TH gain rates immensely improved. Of course, any non-DW dagger would yield similar results. Naturally anything along these lines is a HUGE hit to your personal DPS but in the unlikely event you are present JUST for TH and nothing else... this is the way.

[Arcon]

Just putting it out there, main-hand only beestinger is the best way to proc TH.

With a Beestinger you get up to 30% more melee hits in the same time frame as with a Thief's Knife (assuming no downtime and no JA use), but are one TH tier behind. While exact TH upgrade rates have not been found yet, we know that the probability of an upgrade decreases with the TH difference between your current setup and the TH level that's on the mob already. For single wielding a Beestinger to be a better choice than single wielding a Thief's Knife (in terms of upgrade rates) the probability decline between TH tiers can be calculated by looking at a geometric distribution model.

The expected time to get an upgrade can be calculated by (1/p_x)*delay, where x is the TH difference and delay the weapon's delay. To determine whether Beestinger is better than Thief's Knife for any given x, we need to calculate
(1/p_(x+1))*150 < (1/p_x)*194,
which can be transformed to
p_(x+1) > 0.77*p_x (roughly).

If that inequality is true, using a Beestinger is better, otherwise Thief's Knife wins. So if upgrade rate for zero TH difference is 1% (that's a decent estimate based on current data) and upgrade rate for the one TH difference is 0.75%, Thief's Knife would already be better. I don't know how big it actually is, that would require some seriously boring testing, but personally I don't think Beestinger would come out on top. Judging by how hard it is to upgrade further than TH12 the TH difference progression must be significantly lower than just 75% of the previous value, otherwise TH12 would only have a TH upgrade chance of 24% of TH7, which is a lot higher than is commonly observed. I wouldn't be surprised if it was actually 5%.

That's assuming that it follows a certain progression, which I'm not certain of, but I hope to be the case. Otherwise the question would have to be answered for all cases individually and couldn't be determined for all TH difference values.

[Kincard]

If low delay daggers end up beating TK, no reason to use beestinger when you can use some other 150-delay dagger like Puginculus, Rapidus Sax or Oneiros Knife.

I doubt they would given that the upgrade rate seems to decrease exponentially with the increasing levels, so getting your base TH level as high as possible is far more valuable.

[Arcon]

If low delay daggers end up beating TK, no reason to use beestinger when you can use some other 150-delay dagger like Puginculus, Rapidus Sax or Oneiros Knife.

I think he meant using a Beestinger to avoid dealing too much damage, for cases where you want the highest possible TH without killing the mob too fast. Otherwise you'd be correct, though.


I doubt they would given that the upgrade rate seems to decrease exponentially with the increasing levels, so getting your base TH level as high as possible is far more valuable.

I assumed exponential decrease, namely by p*(d^x) where x is the TH difference, p the original upgrade chance (at x=0) and d the amount by which it decreases with level. Above I gave an example for p=0.01 (1%) and d=0.75 (75% decrease with each level). d is calculated by p_(x+1)/p_x, and if that value is > 0.77 then Beestinger (or 150 delay in general) will be better, if it's < 0.77 then Thief's Knife will win. I just don't think the first case is very likely. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 50%.

[Delvish]

If low delay daggers end up beating TK, no reason to use beestinger when you can use some other 150-delay dagger like Puginculus, Rapidus Sax or Oneiros Knife.

I doubt they would given that the upgrade rate seems to decrease exponentially with the increasing levels, so getting your base TH level as high as possible is far more valuable.

It is true that the other 150 delay daggers would work just as well but as mentioned the DPS would be higher. Most logical scenario is against a single boss monster when it is just yourself and a PLD (and healer) whittling it down slowly while pesky AoE is not an issue.

Also thanks for posting the math up. I think higher base TH would probably win out, but also have to include maths for external support types like magic haste, COR delay reductions, samba, etc. Over time that may change the favor of THF knife to 150d daggers.

[Byrth]

Naw. Further sources of delay reduction either don't change the relationship between the two or favor the higher delay weapon.

[Rustic]

No, they're dumb.

Here are some rumors about TH that are unfortunately more likely to be accurate:
2) The odds of TH proccing are proportional to your current TH level (in gear/traits) and the next TH level. So someone with TH7 in gear will upgrade to TH8 at approximately the same rate that someone with TH4 in gear will upgrade to TH5.
3) The upgrade rate decreases as you get to a higher and higher TH level. So someone with TH4 in gear will have a harder time going from TH5 to TH6 than from TH4 to TH5.


Now, I'd say from playing on a newbie THF that #2 seems right. I've hunted the same area with Treasure Hound (the Kupower) active and not, and going TH1 -> 2 with my L20 THF happens at about the same rate as TH2 -> 3 seems to. That's ancedotal data rather than a parse, so take it as you will, but I think that the odds for going +1, +2, +3... on TH are the same, regardless of your initial TH level. Offhanding TK vs mainhanding it shouldn't be a tough test in any case, and frankly I don't think it matters- you could easily go around two-shotting mobs while dual-wielding and check the results.

[Byrth]

Yeah, pretty much everything I listed was confirmed by now. Here is a page with the information, and there are sources at the bottom:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Treasure_Hunter

[Trumpy]

From the way start of this thread the bit about "If a thf dies do they have to touch it or do they have to be in exp range."

I would have to really search for it but i beleive when the initial changes were made or they answered somewhere the devs said something bout you could apply TH and then warp home and change jobs and the TH would still be there (assuming you were in a group or whatever to hold the mob). of course you could no longer proc higher TH levels.

[Toadie-Odie]

It also has enmity properties (slower decay iirc?) which assists THF for tanking. CHR also possibly affects intimidation rates for Bully?

Yes, higher CHR slows enmity decay, so not only does it help a THF in the tank role, but also helps a THF build hate to dump on a tank when in a support role. As for Bully, that's a really good question and I wish I knew.

[Arcon]

I would have to really search for it but i beleive when the initial changes were made or they answered somewhere the devs said something bout you could apply TH and then warp home and change jobs and the TH would still be there (assuming you were in a group or whatever to hold the mob). of course you could no longer proc higher TH levels.

Yes, and that's been the same for ages. TH is like a debuff that stays on the mob as long as its hate list isn't empty, so until it deaggros. It's like Abyssean weakness staggers.


Yes, higher CHR slows enmity decay, so not only does it help a THF in the tank role, but also helps a THF build hate to dump on a tank when in a support role. As for Bully, that's a really good question and I wish I knew.

I don't remember anyone ever showing CHR being related to enmity in any way, and unless all the enmity testers so far all happened to have equal CHR when they did their testing it's not related to enmity decay either.

It may be related to Bully, I can't say, although I don't think it's likely.

[Toadie-Odie]

Yes, and that's been the same for ages. TH is like a debuff that stays on the mob as long as its hate list isn't empty, so until it deaggros. It's like Abyssean weakness staggers.



I don't remember anyone ever showing CHR being related to enmity in any way, and unless all the enmity testers so far all happened to have equal CHR when they did their testing it's not related to enmity decay either.

It may be related to Bully, I can't say, although I don't think it's likely.

I may have been misinformed then, and I appologize for giving out incorrect information.

I believe the basis for the arguement about CHR in the LS I was in at the time was in regards to BRD being such a hate magnet. It is the job with the highest CHR rating isn't it? I do know there is a CHR effect on songs similar to that of MND on cures. Theoretically it makes sense to me, and thus I took it as fact. Truthfully however, I haven't seen any numbers to prove or disprove this.

With all of that said it makes me wonder why both PLDs and WHMs have a number of gear pieces that add CHR.

[Kincard]

I'm going to guess Asn. Armlets +2 having CHR is only because the NQ had CHR, and the NQ had CHR because of Dancing Edge.

[Arcon]

I believe the basis for the arguement about CHR in the LS I was in at the time was in regards to BRD being such a hate magnet. It is the job with the highest CHR rating isn't it?

It is, but even with no CHR gear at all a BRD can keep hate with the correct songs, because some songs are simply high-enmity by nature.

[Byrth]

Heh. Stack CHR for coke. That brings back memories.

It is also totally wrong. I would recommend you read some wiki game mechanics pages.

[Toadie-Odie]

Okay, that makes sense on both counts. Thank you, Kincard and Arcon.

[SpankWustler]

Stack CHR for coke.

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/Cocaine_So_Much_Cocaine.jpg

[Trumpy]

Without alot of charisma its impossible for thieves to steal all the ladies's hearts!

yea arcon thats what i should have said it was a debuff like you said. was just throwing it out there cause people were talking bout being in exp range and hittin things again after dying toward the start of the thread.

[Twiglet]

SE announced that TH can proc during WS about 6 months ago iirc? Since then I have NEVER EVER EVER had my TH go up by 2 when fighting a mob, where the first proc had occurred during a WS. Am I the only one?

Me neither.


I'll be more than happy to put it to the test on some turtle kills. My experience has always been TH9-11 without fail by the end so it shouldn't be terribly hard to give it a seal of approval if I start getting something like TH15 during lightsday and lots of CHR, on multiple kills.

I thought th capped at 12, have I been misinformed?

[Arcon]

I thought th capped at 12, have I been misinformed?

Definitely. I don't know whether a cap exists, but if it does, it's definitely not 12. Some people speculate it's 2 times your current TH level. Personally I don't think there is a cap, but it's hardly relevant, getting more upgrades after a certain point is near impossible so that it might as well be regarded capped by then.