How to make RDM necessary for our enfeebling!

[Demon6324236]

I think something should be done with Enfeebling Magic, somehow it needs to be made that our skill is the main thing to effect it, be it effect the potency or duration alone, or accuracy as well, whatever it effects needs to be much more potent, seeing as RDM can hit this skill higher easier than others, and would allow us to be better at enfeebling all the same, so that even after this Enfeebling update that is coming up, we are not still left out in preference of a WHM & BLM who can do the same spells we can (excluding the II/III versions) and we will be needed.

The main problem with this being that either it must have a massive effect on the accuracy of the spell, or it will not solve the issue for procing, seeing as potency and duration will not matter. :eek: Yet I think this would have some impact on Enfeebling going to RDMs, because since we have the highest skill if it really mattered more on skill than magic acc gear, we would beat other jobs, such as WHM does with healing. :)

Its simply a matter of skill meaning more than MND/INT/Acc gear, because when those stack up to the same as your skill gives you, the skill becomes insignificant, Healing had a great change with this, because its skill was put as its main factor, and now healing is great, :D I feel that with this type of change for Enfeebling magic, it would make RDM potent with them, while other jobs can use them, but not nearly as well.

Note:I am not saying the main or only focus of RDM should be in any way only enfeebling, only that the skill of which we have the highest of, have many (pointless) merits for, and many pieces of JSE that effect it where as others do not, should be more useful on RDM for these reasons, because we have these things making us obviously the job MENT to enfeeble, and this would give us an edge on it!

[Zerich]

the problem isn't rdm's potency of enfeebles, it's the fact that another heavy hitting DD or more efficient healer would out-benefit a rdm on relevant content.

[Demon6324236]

Like I said, it could/would also be accuracy for the enfeebling, so that a higher skilled RDM will land Slow where as a WHM may not, it would not be perfect but if the accuracy was so greatly effected by skill than RDM would be more likely used for these procs, its not perfect but if it were to happen then it would give more reason to bring a RDM once the change is made to enfeebling. It would open up the idea that RDM can actually land enfeebling, and land it more effectively than a WHM or BLM.

I'm not saying it will make RDM heavily wanted, but we can already do the job of a BLM who would do the enfeebling & 2-4 spell procs, its not as if the party losses something from it, but it might be something we get into easier because of enfeebling. Honestly enfeebling wouldn't do much of anything if it did stick, everything is zerged to a point that all we do is watch it spam TPs, so Para & Slow wouldn't help, cant kite anything anymore so Gravity is out, cant use Silence, to restrictive, all in all I'm just saying for what its worth, RDM should get more enfeebling use for at least procs.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Accuracy is negligible. When Enfeebling magic is actually potent, and worthwhile RDM's will be brought to participate.

The only fix is to make a couple of things.

1. Unique enfeebles that actually do CRIPPLE the enemies, allowing for easier battles. (such as -TP, Paralyze on TP moves, the -evasion sticking on Gravity when -movement speed doesn't etc)
2. Enfeebles unique to RDM outside of merits.

Immunity, the fact a lot on NM's normal attacks count as TP moves, and so on is what is blocking the need for an enfeebler.

[saevel]

1. Unique enfeebles that actually do CRIPPLE the enemies, allowing for easier battles. (such as -TP, Paralyze on TP moves, the -evasion sticking on Gravity when -movement speed doesn't etc)
2. Enfeebles unique to RDM outside of merits.

Pretty much this. SE needs to make a line of new enfeebles that reduce the monsters stats and don't have crap potency. Defense Down / Accuracy Down / Evasion Down / Attack Down / Magic Attack Down / Magic Defense Down / STR down / AGI down and so forth. Maybe even a special RDM only enfeeble that removes all -DT effects for it's duration but has a long recast.

Those are what an alliance leader might bring a RDM for, not the silliness that is Slow / Paralyze / Blind.

[Ophannus]

A RDM version of Tomahawk(Albeit weaker so it doesn't encroach on WAR). Phalanx II being castable on anyone in alliance would be nice. A few more potent party buffs like Haste II would be cool. Increasing the cap potency of some enhancing magic such as Blink/Stoneskin would be nice too.

[Demon6324236]

A RDM version of Tomahawk(Albeit weaker so it doesn't encroach on WAR). Phalanx II being castable on anyone in alliance would be nice. A few more potent party buffs like Haste II would be cool. Increasing the cap potency of some enhancing magic such as Blink/Stoneskin would be nice too.

I remember reading somewhere that they have 3 settings, Self, Party, and Everyone, so to make Phalanx that way you would have to be able to cast it on anyone, inside or outside of the Alliance, which they wont do ofcourse.

[geekgirl101]

What an RDM can specialise themselves in (dia 3, slow 2, paralyze 2) a WHM can do the lower tiers and land them perfectly and that's good enough. The only outstanding spell an RDM has is phalanx 2 and that only has situational uses like FCs and certain NMs, even then you can do without if you got a good WHM who can keep up with the heals and the tanks are using regen atmas. RDMs are no longer a supporting class since their cures max at cure 4 and draws a tonne of hate, and their refreshes are not needed in Aby due to refresh abyssites. They can proc some yellow spells but not any of the -ga or AM ones. In short RDMs are an unnecessary class, thanks to Abyssea. Cheers SE for destroying the class that I enjoyed the most.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I remember reading somewhere that they have 3 settings, Self, Party, and Everyone, so to make Phalanx that way you would have to be able to cast it on anyone, inside or outside of the Alliance, which they wont do ofcourse.

It's just another excuse, they could change it if they wanted.

[saevel]

SE just needs to introduce Dia IV (20% defense down effect) and some way for us to lower the NMs evasion without running into mega resist issues or 10s duration. Defense down scales like haste does btw.

And for those who might not understand the difference between 10, 15 and 20 defense down.

10% = (100/90) = 11.11% attack bonus
15% = (100/85) = 17.64% attack bonus
20% = (100/80) = 25.00% attack bonus

Angon is 20% defense down, stacks with Dia and Box step. Has a 3min cool down and a 90s duration at capped (any DRG who doesn't cap this is a complete imbecile). Their augmented relic +2 hands further increase it by 1% per merit level to 25% total.

Dia II + Angon = 30% (100/70) = 42.85% attack bonus
Dia III + Angon = 35% (100/65) = 53.84% attack bonus
Dia IV + Angon = 40% (100/60) = 66.66% attack bonus

Your guaranteed to cap out attack on pretty much anything in the game, even NM turtles and Bismark.

[cidbahamut]

What an RDM can specialise themselves in (dia 3, slow 2, paralyze 2) a WHM can do the lower tiers and land them perfectly and that's good enough. The only outstanding spell an RDM has is phalanx 2 and that only has situational uses like FCs and certain NMs, even then you can do without if you got a good WHM who can keep up with the heals and the tanks are using regen atmas.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg

[saevel]

Actually was doing some planning with LS.

RDM Sab Dia III for 5min of 15% Def Down
DRG with 5/5 Angon and +2 Relic hands for 90s of 25% Def Down
NIN/DNC spaming Box Step for 5~13% def down
45~53% defense down.

That's 81.81% ~ 112.76% attack bonus on the entire alliance. If a DD had 1600 attack, they now have the equivalent of 2908 ~ 3404 attack. Give a giant middle finger to Bismark.

[Demon6324236]

It's just another excuse, they could change it if they wanted.

Just tellin ya what I remember them saying, chances are they wouldn't change it anyways but it just gives them 1 more reason.

In anycase my main point in creating this thread and idea is because how Healing Magic got reworked. Healing Magic was basically worthless when it came to curing, healing update hit and it became the best part for curing. So far as I know RDM can hit higher numbers in Enfeebling Magic skill, if it were changed where this skill has a massive impact on it landing & its potency I think it would help RDM's position. The fact they are lowering all the resists and such soon is nice however its also got a flaw in this idea, this does not help RDM, it helps every single job with enfeebling magic, if RDM cannot stand above the other mages in this area still, it will matter nothing for RDM.

In other words, where the Healing Magic update made lesser cures more effective for non-WHMs, this would do the opposite for Enfeebling Magic. Enfeebling would be worse for non-RDMs and better for RDM itself so that it is actually more needed for the spells. Part of the problem also lies in the fact the spells are on short recasts and easily spamable, you can just keep trying over and over, eventually it will stick anyways. I have stuck poison 1/2/Ga on Morta for procing before BLMs because as BLU/RDM there were no BLU procs and somehow with BLU/RDM & Portent Pants, I could land them, I'm guessing extreme luck. But in any case fact is they landed with such small skill on such a high NM, I would think a BLU/RDM would have a snowballs chance in hell while a RDM with decked out gear, skill, and the like can cast it and land it in 1~2 casts with a good duration and effect.

Another change they could make is higher NMs having their normal attacks that count as TPs being able to be paralyzed. Para wouldn't help alot anyways, we feed mobs in VW so much TP with the 6+ DDs on it that it probably gets almost nothing off of normal attacks anyways (not to mention fantatics is a TP cockblock to them from their normal hits anyways.) Many ideas for new spells have been presented and shot down or ignored, and honestly without expanding on skill difference mattering or new spells, unless RDM has some very overpowering 2hour with the new ones, RDM is going to stay how it is, being left out.

[Demon6324236]

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg

PLD+Abyssea+Regen atma(MC/Stronghold/RR for hate) and you will have a job that basically cant die... ever... even without the healer healing them they can heal themselves with the regen & self cures and basically will never die unless they are 1shot or are badly geared. Not saying that its the best option but it is one I admit to using when I take my dualbox PLD with me because I can already hold hate on the character, no reason not to use regen atma and keep her alive with ease. If you mean DD tank (SAM or WAR) then by all means stack on DD atma, same with THF DNC NIN and the EVA tanks, they use EVA atma or at most possibly PDT/DT, but PLD regen helps alot because it covers the already incredibly low damage you are taking so long as you block.

[Demon6324236]

SE just needs to introduce Dia IV (20% defense down effect) and some way for us to lower the NMs evasion without running into mega resist issues or 10s duration.

Grav II could work if they redid how it works a little so we get eva down to stick but not move speed down. But Dia IV will never happen unless they fix our stupid merits.

[Mostfowl]

I miss the rdm glory days....

One of the first jobs dismantled by abyssea

/sigh

[Sunrider]

Since nobody's mentioned it yet:


We have been mentioning here and there about a significant enfeeble system revamp and I’d like to explain a bit more in detail about the changes that will be taking place with the upcoming test server, as I am sure everyone is quite curious what will be adjusted!



Immunity
In the case where a monster has immunity to a certain enfeebling spell, it will be possible to recognize this via the chat log when it is resisted.

As long as the monster does not have immunity, it will be possible to enfeeble them, and there will be a very large amount of monsters that can be enfeebled as compared to the past.

※The log display for immunity will not be reflected on the test server at this time.
　
“Resist hack” (tentative name)
We will be adding a new system where resistance will decrease by the continuous use of an enfeebling spell.


When an enfeebling spell is resisted, a “resist hack” can occur which will reduce the resistance towards that enfeebling spell.
Resist hacks can build up making it possible to lower the resistance further.
The more an enfeebling spell is resisted, the higher the rate of a resist hack occurring.
Once the enfeebling effect is successfully applied to the monster, the lowered resistance will reset.
If an enfeebling effect is put on a monster continuously, resistance will gradually build and the resist hacks will not occur. Monsters that have immunity will also exist and resist hacks will not occur when fighting them.
Resist hacks will only be applied towards enfeebling magic (spells that fall into the enfeebling magic skill category)


　
Adjustment objective
The main objective for implementing this system is to boost the contribution of enfeebling magic for strategies when fighting NMs with high resistances and other specific content.

There will be an extremely large amount of monsters where this system will be applicable, so we will be spending some time adjusting each of them. For the next version update we will be adjusting regular field monsters and the NMs in Legion and Voidwatch. After this we will be adjusting NMs for other content as well as field NMs.



We feel that with this system enfeebling spells will be much more applicable and we are really looking forward to have everyone test it out and give feedback! :)

[saevel]

Only cause it's not a fix for RDM but for the other jobs that have access to enfeebles.

[Llana_Virren]

Since nobody's mentioned it yet:

It was mentioned, in a previous thread.

However, to educate the masses let me clarify what a lot of people are missing: RDM will not be made relevant just because Enfeebling Magic changes... this is a minor (and overdue) change, however it will have NO impact on end-game events.

The only way to make enfeebling (or RDM) in any way relevant is to ensure that there are anti-zerg battles/systems in the future that allow RDM to be useful, without RDM becoming a "requirement".

Now that SE has borked end-game, they will start implementing things that will do nothing. Cheers!

[Sunrider]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I fully agree.

I just hadn't seen that particular update mentioned in this forum yet.

[Demon6324236]

So they did the stupidest thing possible, made spamming spells randomly a good thing -_-; only way I think would fix the current system is make RDM's higher skill really matter while making enfeebling actually useful and needed in events.

[ManaKing]

Actually was doing some planning with LS.

RDM Sab Dia III for 5min of 15% Def Down
DRG with 5/5 Angon and +2 Relic hands for 90s of 25% Def Down
NIN/DNC spaming Box Step for 5~13% def down
45~53% defense down.

That's 81.81% ~ 112.76% attack bonus on the entire alliance. If a DD had 1600 attack, they now have the equivalent of 2908 ~ 3404 attack. Give a giant middle finger to Bismark.

Add in a Bravura with some Metatron Torment for an extra 18.5% Defense Down.

[Babekeke]

Probably don't all stack, but pop some acid bolts in there too for another 15%.

[saevel]

Probably don't all stack, but pop some acid bolts in there too for another 15%.

Acids are like Frightful roar, the defense down status effect, same as Agnon. Seeing as Agnon's is more powerful its the one you'd want.

Right now there are only three different "defense down" effects,
Dia
"Defense Down"
Daze (steps)