will we ever get new jobs? Comunity rep response please ;_;

[hideka]

i seriously want to see more jobs... theres so many untapped jobs... hell and not-yet-created jobs we could use.... moar plz?

anyone from the rep team want to shed some non-cryptic light on this?

[Tennotsukai]

green mage and geomancer, yah..

[Alhanelem]

Here's your community response: No. We won't ever get new jobs. Console limitations.

[cidbahamut]

They can't handle the 20 jobs that are in the game now. Why would you want to make that worse?

[Camiie]

Community Rep 1: We get new jobs and duties all the time!
Community Rep 2: I think this is in reference to in-game jobs...
Community Rep 1: Oh.. seriously? LOL... no...

[Invasion]

notthisthreadagain.jpeg

[Daniel_Hatcher]

They can't handle the 20 jobs that are in the game now. Why would you want to make that worse?

This so very much!

[Zerich]

lol isn't one of the limit break tarus a brown mage?

[MiniDiamond]

Here's your community response: No. We won't ever get new jobs. Console limitations.

BS. Truthly they should just cancel consoles. I know i know. Thats crazy but look. WHERE IN THE HELL will you find FFXI for 360? Goto Gamestop and ask. They'll stare at you like you're crazy then be like "FFXI is a Computer game". Try amazon? 100+Dollars? Fuck that.

i honestly support the idea of new jobs, ^,^

[Darwena]

Welll... errrr... NO! even if was PC only, NO! they are 20 jobs already and only 5-7 jobs are used (besides VW for trigger). so, no! SE already abandoned half the job of the game and don't even know what to do for most of them...

[Edyth]

If this ever happens, I have a feeling it'd be something like Onion Knight, so they could do minimum effort and import a lot of traits, spells, equipment, and even job abilities from other jobs.

Besides Onion Knight, what FF jobs are left untapped so far in FFXI?
Mime: just can't see it happening.
Green Mage: they enhance and enfeeble, and all of that is covered already.
Gambler: incorporated into Corsair.
Spellblade/Mystic Knight: incorporated into Red Mage.
Berserker: could maybe make this into something, but it would be difficult to make it very distinct from Warrior.
Geomancer: they can make this into something, but balance would be difficult because its abilities are tied to the area you're in.
Viking: they could make this into something.

Other jobs, like Hunter, Sniper, Assassin, Animist, Gladiator, Cannoneer, aren't very different from what we have already.

[Alhanelem]

There's no point to adding new jobs anyway. Unless they're more broken than WAR SAM MNK are now, they won't be played or used.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

There's no point to adding new jobs anyway. Unless they're more broken than WAR SAM MNK are now, they won't be played or used.Time Mage. It's exactly like rdm only it gets slow2 without having to merit it as well as slow3. Also it will get hastega and haste2 whereas rdm will not.

[Nala]

Pretty much what every one else already said, they cant even properly balance (oh god i hate this word now) the jobs we have in game now, take a look at RDM if you want a very good example of this.

there are plenty of other jobs that also need a complete face lift but the Dev team needs a trip to the proctologist before they can actually figure out that we know more about the game then they do.

[hideka]

Morpher, Geomancer, Fencer, Mystic Knight, rune knight, Engineer, Chemist, Time mage, necromancer, are all of the remaining jobs that would be feasible to place into the game. all of which could be easily be made into good jobs... honestly im saddened that more people dont want new jobs... the game shouldnt be "howmany ukonvasara's can i throw at it".....

[hideka]

Time Mage. It's exactly like rdm only it gets slow2 without having to merit it as well as slow3. Also it will get hastega and haste2 whereas rdm will not.

your forgetting Demi 1-5 demiga 1-4, stop1-2, stopga1-2, X-zone and about 10 other spells that could be given to this job easily.

[Alhanelem]

Time Mage. It's exactly like rdm only it gets slow2 without having to merit it as well as slow3. Also it will get hastega and haste2 whereas rdm will not.
Time mage is totally redundant as time magic is already on other jobs. Just giving the job better versions of the ones that already exist doesn't give it a deep enough ability pool. Time magic is too narrow to be its own job in this game especially when several of its abilities would be overpowered in an MMO environment and others don't have any real way of being implemented at all. What would Quicken do in a non-turn based game? Astra? Too powerful for an MMO. Demi? Quarter? Too powerful. Hastega? We already have it.


your forgetting Demi 1-5 demiga 1-4, stop1-2"Demi" means half. How would half II III and IV work? If it doesn't cut HP by half, then it's not Demi. Stop already exists in the form of terror and it would be overpowered if it lasted any longer than those similar effects already do.

We already have enough problems balancing the 20 jobs that exist already. Adding another redundant and pointless job won't help.

[Llana_Virren]

Time Mage would become the "new" RDM... and by "new" RDM, I mean you'd have all these awesome spells that monsters wouled be immune to.

Time Mage really doesn't work too well in an MMO, because of how limited it's options would be. (only ability to cure would be regens; no insta-nukes, everything is DoT; Demi of any kind would be nerfed to the point of uselessness; etc)

Fencer would end up being a light WAR with parry up the ass (see: THF with swords).

Necromancer? Really?

Chemist... this we could do. And it'd definately give alchemy something fun to work with....

Engineer? Meh. Mystic/Rune Knight? No way to make it as powerful as it should be without unbalancing the game up the wazoo.

Honestly... with how many people have a Lv.99 job they don't know how to use, I don't think adding -more- jobs to the pool will make the game any more enjoyable than it already is.... but that's just me.

[Mifaco]

What would a new job add that the existing 20 jobs haven't already covered?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

"Demi" means half. How would half II III and IV work? If it doesn't cut HP by half, then it's not Demi. Stop already exists in the form of terror and it would be overpowered if it lasted any longer than those similar effects already do.Have you never played a final fnatasy game?

[Llana_Virren]

The biggest failure about this troll "Alhanelem", is that he makes no effort to play the part of a troll seriously.

Naturally, if you ignore him, he disappears.

[Nala]

Eh forgot Oracle, Onion knight, Sword mage/Mystic Knight, Sage, Cannoneer, Mimic, Princess, Engineer and a myriad of other jobs that have been in other ff's, oh and don't forget the dress sphere jobs from FFX-2, the concept of new jobs is fine and all but not feasible honestly. though i love sch dnc blu cor and pup they already had enough on their plate with 15 classes to balance.

[Alhanelem]

The biggest failure about this troll "Alhanelem", is that he makes no effort to play the part of a troll seriously.

Naturally, if you ignore him, he disappears.
Naturally, if you don't troll, people will call you a troll anyway. Those people are thereby trolling as they bait their targeted victim into posting. I don't make an effort to play the part of a troll seriously because I don't make any effort to be a troll at all. In fact, it's usually me being the one baited into posting, by people like you making aggressive comments towards me.


Have you never played a final fnatasy game? Yup. The ones I've played either don't have the spell, or the spell does what I described- Cuts an enemy's HP by half of its current value (Demi) or 25% of its current value (Quarter). Either of these things would be too good for an MMO unless every NM was immune to it or its effects were extremely crippled against them (as is Diablos' 2-hour, which has a similar effect). If you're trying to tell me Demi/Quarter aren't time mage, they are. Some games call it Gravity, but that already exists in FFXI with a different effect. In FFT:A2 Gravity was on Arcanist instead of Time Mage.

Stop: This spell temporarily prevents an enemy from acting (in every game in which I've seen it)
Stun: "Temporarily prevents an enemy from acting." (taken from FFXI)
Terror (via blue magic or bst ability): "Causes an enemy to become frozen in fear (literally freezes the model's animation- which is what I would see stop doing)
Break: Turns an enemy to stone, preventing it from acting.
ignoring the obvious sleep, that's 4 spells that would all do the same thing.

Extend: SCH basically has this as a job ability
Haste: Multiple jobs already have this. Another tier will happen when hell freezes over
Hastega: Summoner has this. Let's take away more things unique (even though it's not really unique) to summoner!
Slow: RDM already has 2 tiers of this. A third would be silly
Quicken: Effect only makes sense in a turn-based battle system
Undo: Hard to imagine how this would work in a real-time setting. Would be difficult to use in an intense situation if it simply undid the last thing that happened to someone.
Astra: enfeeble immunity- about the only thing worthwhile. Would be okay as long as it didn't guard against dispel.

Time mage is pretty much the most redundant job they could add to the game. What it has that's useful WHM or RDM already offers for the most part, and any time mage would probably be subbing WHM or RDM, making it even more redundant.

Tell me again why we need this job? And where would you see us going "Man, I wish we had a time mage in this party?"

[Aprian]

The Morpher could fit well into the game a few examples

Antica (Paladin)
Bugbears (Monk)
Gigas (Beastmaster)
Goblins(White Mage)
Lamiae (Corsair)
Mamool Ja (Blue Mage)
Moblins (Thief)
Orcs (Warrior)
Poroggos (Black Mage)
Qiqirn (Ranger)
Quadav (Red Mage)
Sahagin (Bard)
Tonberries (Ninja)
Trolls (Puppetmaster)
Yagudo (Samurai)
Pixies (Dancer)
Demons (Dark Knight)
Skeletons (Dragoon)
Vampyr(Summoner)

[Llana_Virren]

Quicken: Effect only makes sense in a turn-based battle system.

Or it could be an imposible version of Fast Cast. Just as Haste increases attack speed (by reducing delay), Quick could decrease casting time, or decrease recast time, or both.

Very few things from previous FFs got ported over to FFXI "intact" and as originally designed.

[Alhanelem]

The Morpher could fit well into the game a few examples

Antica (Paladin)
Bugbears (Monk)
Gigas (Beastmaster)
Goblins(White Mage)
Lamiae (Corsair)
Mamool Ja (Blue Mage)
Moblins (Thief)
Orcs (Warrior)
Poroggos (Black Mage)
Qiqirn (Ranger)
Quadav (Red Mage)
Sahagin (Bard)
Tonberries (Ninja)
Trolls (Puppetmaster)
Yagudo (Samurai)
Pixies (Dancer)
Demons (Dark Knight)
Skeletons (Dragoon)
Vampyr(Summoner)
Morpher was quite fun in FFTA, shame it was cut from FFTA2 =\

[SpankWustler]

Morpher was quite fun in FFTA, shame it was cut from FFTA2 =\

I really enjoyed the "special combat stance" of Morpher. I was expecting my little floppy-eared bro to just glow red or maybe turn into a dragon if he or she wanted to do something fancy...

Instead, the character lifted hands over head and, as far as I could tell on my GBA screen, made little pretend-claws with those hands. The job's power is apparently based on very intelligent adults pretending to be monsters so hard that it works.

[Shibayama]

Guys. Guys guys guys.

Gymnast.

http://gematsu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/FFXI-April-Fools.jpg

Why are you all talking about time mage when you should be talking about making this wonderful job a reality?

[Vivivivi]

I can't really see a new job getting added, although it's fun to speculate about the possibilities. I think the morpher concept would be fun, however I would think there would have to be a very large recast timer on shifting because those models are probably not loaded into memory for the zones in which they don't naturally appear. Having said that, perhaps the role could be somewhat linked to the geomancer concept, in where you could turn into a select few mobs already present in the zone. Still seems too similar to beast master though.

I would personally love to see mime (or freelancer, onion knight), and have it sort of become the scholar equivalent of combat based jobs. It could potentially equip all weapons with a C or D rating, but shift disciplines like 'martial arts', 'archer', 'fencer' etc. It would make a great abyssea or void watch job for procs, and be fun for people who already like jobs like warrior monk and samurai.

[AyinDygra]

My thoughts... on jobs...(link) (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190090&viewfull=1#post190090) Yeah, I had to throw this in here, since I want more jobs like... (and for quick reference, links to each section to follow)
6 New Jobs (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190090&viewfull=1#post190090) (5 full job concept documents, but I didn't make a full post for Geomancer yet, and a seventh one is an old job given a new twist (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190091&viewfull=1#post190091))
Chemist (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190093&viewfull=1#post190093) / JA pt1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190094&viewfull=1#post190094) / JA pt2, Traits, Merits & gear (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190095&viewfull=1#post190095) / Ingredients (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190098&viewfull=1#post190098) / Mix List pt1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190102&viewfull=1#post190102), pt2 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190106&viewfull=1#post190106))
Engineer (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190109&viewfull=1#post190109) / JA pt1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190110&viewfull=1#post190110) / JA pt2 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190111&viewfull=1#post190111)/ JA pt3 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190113&viewfull=1#post190113) / JA pt4 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190114&viewfull=1#post190114) / Traits, Merits & gear (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190116&viewfull=1#post190116))
Judgemaster (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190117&viewfull=1#post190117) / Job Abilities (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190119&viewfull=1#post190119) / Judgments (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190120&viewfull=1#post190120) / Penalties (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190121&viewfull=1#post190121) / Approvals (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190125&viewfull=1#post190125) / Prohibitions (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190126&viewfull=1#post190126) / Traits, Merits & gear (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190129&viewfull=1#post190129))
Mimic (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190132&viewfull=1#post190132) / Job Abilities (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190133&viewfull=1#post190133) / Traits, Merits & gear (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190134&viewfull=1#post190134))
Jikuu Sage (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190137&viewfull=1#post190137) / Spells pt1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190139&viewfull=1#post190139) / Spells pt2 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190143&viewfull=1#post190143) / Job Abilities (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190144&viewfull=1#post190144) / Traits, Merits, gear, joke (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190145&viewfull=1#post190145))

Yeah, they have a hard enough keeping the current jobs working, but some of you have to admit at least one of these ideas would be fun if added to the game. They're not just re-hashes of existing jobs and could have significant impacts on the strategies employed by groups.

[Alhanelem]

My thoughts... on jobs...(link) (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190090&viewfull=1#post190090) Yeah, I had to throw this in here, since I want more jobs like... (and for quick reference, links to each section to follow)
6 New Jobs (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190090&viewfull=1#post190090) (5 full job concept documents, but I didn't make a full post for Geomancer yet, and a seventh one is an old job given a new twist (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190091&viewfull=1#post190091))
Chemist (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190093&viewfull=1#post190093) / JA pt1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190094&viewfull=1#post190094) / JA pt2, Traits, Merits & gear (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190095&viewfull=1#post190095) / Ingredients (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190098&viewfull=1#post190098) / Mix List pt1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190102&viewfull=1#post190102), pt2 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190106&viewfull=1#post190106))
Engineer (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190109&viewfull=1#post190109) / JA pt1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190110&viewfull=1#post190110) / JA pt2 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190111&viewfull=1#post190111)/ JA pt3 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190113&viewfull=1#post190113) / JA pt4 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190114&viewfull=1#post190114) / Traits, Merits & gear (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190116&viewfull=1#post190116))
Judgemaster (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190117&viewfull=1#post190117) / Job Abilities (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190119&viewfull=1#post190119) / Judgments (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190120&viewfull=1#post190120) / Penalties (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190121&viewfull=1#post190121) / Approvals (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190125&viewfull=1#post190125) / Prohibitions (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190126&viewfull=1#post190126) / Traits, Merits & gear (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190129&viewfull=1#post190129))
Mimic (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190132&viewfull=1#post190132) / Job Abilities (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190133&viewfull=1#post190133) / Traits, Merits & gear (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190134&viewfull=1#post190134))
Jikuu Sage (Concept (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190137&viewfull=1#post190137) / Spells pt1 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190139&viewfull=1#post190139) / Spells pt2 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190143&viewfull=1#post190143) / Job Abilities (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190144&viewfull=1#post190144) / Traits, Merits, gear, joke (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190145&viewfull=1#post190145))

Yeah, they have a hard enough keeping the current jobs working, but some of you have to admit at least one of these ideas would be fun if added to the game. They're not just re-hashes of existing jobs and could have significant impacts on the strategies employed by groups.
I suppose it might be fun to play the job-making game, but I hope i don't have to tell you what a colossal amount of time you wasted coming up with all that.

[Llana_Virren]

I suppose it might be fun to play the job-making game, but I hope i don't have to tell you what a colossal amount of time you wasted coming up with all that.

Not a troll, are you?

I do appreciate your meaningful (read: meaningless) contribution to this thread by insulting a player who felt passionately enough about a topic to apply a thorough and detailed analysis on what a potential new job could be and how it would work.

Meanwhile, you trol... I mean, "suggest" gymnast, and contend that spells and abilities from previous FFs would "never work" ....

While you've successfully pulled me into replying (again) to your useless posts, I'm still not giving you credit for any skillups on Troll Magic Skill, sorry.

[Iakothm]

i like the Idea of a Juggler from FFTA. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Juggler_(Final_Fantasy_Tactics_Advance)

[Alhanelem]

Not a troll, are you?Yes, I'm not a troll. You, on the other hand, who took the time to take the exact same action you are protesting against, are. Practice what you preach.


I mean, "suggest" gymnast, and contend that spells and abilities from previous FFs would "never work" ....I didn't suggest or even bring up "gymnast." Check who actually posted what before flaming.

Describing how I feel about time mage and how some of its abilities are either redundant, don't make sense in an MMO, or whatever is not trolling. It sounds like you don't even know what trolling really means.

My comment, which you quoted to accuse me of trolling, while blunt was not intended to be inflammatory. Making up jobs can be a fun activity, I was merely trying to get at the fact that making up jobs and taking the effort so seriously isn't going to get your job idea into the game. We can't even get bug fixes passed by the devs, much less new jobs... In other words, it IS a waste of time. Then again, so are most other topics here.


Naturally, if you ignore him, he disappears. For someone who acts as if he knows trolling so well, and for someone who gives so much advice on it, you're doing a remarkably bad job at following your own advice. If ignoring me is supposed to make me disappear, why aren't you ignoring me?

[Ophannus]

Even adding 1 new job means they have to go back and add:
New AF Quests
Allow porter moogle to store it
Implement new AF+1 materials including graphics, name, flavor text.
Add AF2 to old Dynamises/CoP Dynamis
Add AF2+2 at Magian Moogles
Make new Empyrean Armor in Abyssea including either adding seals to old NMs or making new NMs.
Adding seals to various quests/Dom Ops.
Adding dialogue to every quest in the game that references [Your Character's Job]
Various quests which give rewards based on the current job
Adding the new job to old gear while maintaining balance
New JA animations.
New emote quest at Green Magian Moogle.
New COR roll for the job.
New Ballista title for the job specific Chevron.
Revamping and resizing the job change menu in the mog house
Resizing the 'Job Level' menu to accommodate new jobs.
Adding new Testimonies and G5 quests.


These are just a few of the things it takes to create a new job, and this isn't even accounting for all the time spent balancing its abilities and spells and seeing if it fills an unfilled niche that doesn't detract much from current jobs.

[Siviard]

@ AyinDygra - I'd love to see those concepts and offer my own input on them, if you don't mind of course.

@ Tahngarthor of Shiva - OK dude....I'm on the same server as you, and I even chit-chat with you from time to time on Shiva. I've never been mean to you at all, but in all honesty, just stop flappin' yer yap in every freaking thread on this forum. Of the nearly 4,000 posts you've made on this forum (find something better to do much?) I'd wager to guess about 3,000 of them either contain the words "NO" or "WASTE OF TIME" or "CAN'T BE DONE" or just general negativity towards people who offer what could potentially be terrific suggestions to the game. SO SHUT THAT GALKAN YAP OF YOURS, for the love of all that is good and holy. GEEZ.....

*NINJA EDIT* - Considering the fact I even logged on here to post in response to Tahngarthor aka Alhanelem, would seem to make you (Alhanelem) the official forum troll, sir.

[AyinDygra]

@ AyinDygra - I'd love to see those concepts and offer my own input on them, if you don't mind of course.

Hey, I made a thread just for people to read the ideas, comment on them, and potentially like them. (it was just a huge thread, and people may feel they can't respond to a single idea in the thread without reading it all... guess I should have split it up into multiple threads... but I wanted it all kept together as a cohesive whole, tied to the expansion storyline to help explain how the jobs fit into FFXI. So, have at it, I'd like to see what people think about them.

And as I posted later in that thread (bottom of page 2):

I agree with that assessment of what will likely happen, as I posted in my general discussion post introducing this megapost:
"I'm fully aware that this is a ton of text and most of it likely won't get translated and presented to the developers unless there is enough positive feedback for the ideas presented. I can only hope the people who do translate this sort of thing like the ideas enough to translate it all because they want to see it happen as much as me!"

I just had to get it all off my chest, since it had been swirling around in my head for months.

[Alhanelem]

@ AyinDygra - I'd love to see those concepts and offer my own input on them, if you don't mind of course.

@ Tahngarthor of Shiva - OK dude....I'm on the same server as you, and I even chit-chat with you from time to time on Shiva. I've never been mean to you at all, but in all honesty, just stop flappin' yer yap in every freaking thread on this forum. Of the nearly 4,000 posts you've made on this forum (find something better to do much?) I'd wager to guess about 3,000 of them either contain the words "NO" or "WASTE OF TIME" or "CAN'T BE DONE" or just general negativity towards people who offer what could potentially be terrific suggestions to the game. SO SHUT THAT GALKAN YAP OF YOURS, for the love of all that is good and holy. GEEZ.....

*NINJA EDIT* - Considering the fact I even logged on here to post in response to Tahngarthor aka Alhanelem, would seem to make you (Alhanelem) the official forum troll, sir.If you think someone is a troll, it would stand to reason that you should be able to restrain yourself from posting a response to them. Of course, I couldn't do that here, so one could argue you are trolling as well.


I'd wager to guess about 3,000 of them either contain the words "NO" or "WASTE OF TIME" or "CAN'T BE DONE"That couldn't be further from the truth.

You see, the way I see it is that I post a thought on a matter, someone attacks that thought, and from that point on I'm forced into defensive mode, attempting to keep my position strong. You can't troll when you're defending. If anything, when you're defending, it means you're BEING trolled. I suppose you could argue both sides are trolling each other- but then, it's really just an argument.

.... Here I am, defending myself again.

[Divinius]

Honestly, if they added new jobs at this point, I'd probably just quit the game entirely.

With the current state of the game, and its desperate need for attention in so many other areas (which it's not getting), if the devs actually spent the colossal amount of time it would take to try to add new jobs this late in the game (in lieu of fixing the myriad of other things that are far more important), it would really prove how little they care about trying to actually make the game fun again.

[Elexia]

They can't handle the 20 jobs that are in the game now. Why would you want to make that worse?

They can. You, the players, can't.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Seriously, what?

[BurnNotice]

Once upon a time, I remember a community of people that stated Blue Mage will never come to pass. It was unrealistic and didn't have a place in Vana'diel. Another story among the community was the level cap increase to 99. It was stated that SE WOULD NEVER increase the level cap because we will be overpowered and break the game (lol really?). Simply put, it will never happen.

Today, we have not only BLUE MAGE, but Cosair and Scholar. Not only did we transcend past 75, we hit 99!

My point: We should not place limits on what SE potential on making this game better. They've went beyond our doubts and showed us they're committed to exceeding our expectations. Without a doubt, I am sure SE will speak about the future of this game by making a statement about adding possible jobs, expansions, and greater challenges (without logs being part of the reward system).

Let's give SE a little break. Let them response to this topic. I wouldn't mind the additional jobs to the game as long as they have a beneficial role throughout the entire game. Personally, I would like to see another offensive mage job like BLM, BLU,SMN, and SCH. :)

[Zerich]

Once upon a time, I remember a community of people that stated Blue Mage will never come to pass. It was unrealistic and didn't have a place in Vana'diel. Another story among the community was the level cap increase to 99. It was stated that SE WOULD NEVER increase the level cap because we will be overpowered and break the game (lol really?). Simply put, it will never happen.

Today, we have not only BLUE MAGE, but Cosair and Scholar. Not only did we transcend past 75, we hit 99!

My point: We should not place limits on what SE potential on making this game better. They've went beyond our doubts and showed us they're committed to exceeding our expectations. Without a doubt, I am sure SE will speak about the future of this game by making a statement about adding possible jobs, expansions, and greater challenges (without logs being part of the reward system).

Let's give SE a little break. Let them response to this topic. I wouldn't mind the additional jobs to the game as long as they have a beneficial role throughout the entire game. Personally, I would like to see another offensive mage job like BLM, BLU,SMN, and SCH. :)

What community?
It would've been OP for 75 content, if we were all 99 and only had 75 endgame to do.
If we do get new jobs, ever, it will be a long long time from now.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

What community?He's talking about random unofficial forums that feel so self important that they think SE actualy read what they were posting.(This especialy never happened in english.)

[Zerich]

He's talking about random unofficial forums that feel so self important that they think SE actualy read what they were posting.(This especialy never happened in english.)

sorry, i meant to say, "which community?"

[Sanjuro_Asura]

Instead of "New jobs" why not Mastery jobs of what we have now White Mage->White Wizard, Blue Mage->Blue Wizard, etc etc etc
and at 99 we get the three gold stars listed in Job list ;p

[Tsukino_Kaji]

sorry, i meant to say, "which community?"Noted.
It still stands though.

[Llana_Virren]

He's talking about random unofficial forums that feel so self important that they think SE actualy read what they were posting.(This especialy never happened in english.)

Whatever happened to those BG guys, anyway?

[wildsprite]

They can. You, the players, can't.
actually, if this were true then many of the jobs would not be screwed in the name of balance

[Darwena]

I want Chuck Norris job...

[Nala]

Darwena casts roundhousekickga, roundhousekickga casts roundhouse kickga: the population of all adjacent servers had their hp reduced to zero five times over.

[hideka]

Instead of "New jobs" why not Mastery jobs of what we have now White Mage->White Wizard, Blue Mage->Blue Wizard, etc etc etc
and at 99 we get the three gold stars listed in Job list ;p

best idea ever.

[Camiie]

Instead of "New jobs" why not Mastery jobs of what we have now White Mage->White Wizard, Blue Mage->Blue Wizard, etc etc etc
and at 99 we get the three gold stars listed in Job list ;p

Then people would chime in and say, "You should only be able to Master 1/2/3 jobs!"

OR

"In order to Master a job you have to have had the job at 75 with capped skills and fully merited at least 2 years before the level 80 cap increase along with a relic or mythic weapon and full relic+1 and Salvage gear for that job. You have to be Rank 10 in all nations and have all missions and quests completed everywhere with full clears in every event ever released and an Empyrean weapon to 99..."

And after all that people would still complain it's too easy to Master a job and too many people have done it for it to feel like a special accomplishment.

[Aeri-cat]

Even adding 1 new job means they have to go back and add:
New AF Quests
Allow porter moogle to store it
Implement new AF+1 materials including graphics, name, flavor text.
Add AF2 to old Dynamises/CoP Dynamis
Add AF2+2 at Magian Moogles
Make new Empyrean Armor in Abyssea including either adding seals to old NMs or making new NMs.
Adding seals to various quests/Dom Ops.
Adding dialogue to every quest in the game that references [Your Character's Job]
Various quests which give rewards based on the current job
Adding the new job to old gear while maintaining balance
New JA animations.
New emote quest at Green Magian Moogle.
New COR roll for the job.
New Ballista title for the job specific Chevron.
Revamping and resizing the job change menu in the mog house
Resizing the 'Job Level' menu to accommodate new jobs.
Adding new Testimonies and G5 quests.


These are just a few of the things it takes to create a new job, and this isn't even accounting for all the time spent balancing its abilities and spells and seeing if it fills an unfilled niche that doesn't detract much from current jobs.


God forbid, the dev team has to actually "develop" something, instead of just breaking things with petty updates, and then fixing them 2 days later.

[wildsprite]

personally I still want the glorified creepiness of Necromancer....if they do this they must add the sound of bones crunching as you resurrect something, otherwise it just wont have the same effect XD

[Vivivivi]

Couple thoughts regarding this:

There is no law that says if a new job is added they "must" make old AF1 quests/gear, relic gear, empyrean armor etc. Sure it would break traditional rules, but if SE wanted to add a new job or jobs, they could do so without these things (and hopefully have a desirable alternative).

I LOVE Sanjuro_Asura's idea of job "mastery", it's a throwback to Final Fantasy 1, and a nod to what is going on in FFXIV. I would expect job mastery to be limited to 1 to 3 jobs, similar to the meritable weapon skills. I would also think we'd see a boost in job related stats, and perhaps group 3 merits.

We can speculate and suggest all we want, but I too would love an official community representative response on the subject.

[hiko]

I suppose it might be fun to play the job-making game, but I hope i don't have to tell you what a colossal amount of time you wasted coming up with all that.
playing....

he might have enjoyed it more than waiting /shouting for a VW group (and can have done both at same time)

[hideka]

Oh... my.... god.... I HAVE THE AWNSER GUYS!!!!!!

Job Specific merits Tier3 would be a 30 merit item, that you can place 1 merit into, there would be 3 merit options,
the merit would greatly augment certian aspects of the existing abilities, spells and weaponskills, and allow for even more customiziablity!

imagine a PLD that could DD even better, or a DRK that could tank, or a Nin whos shurikens didnt suck! >_>

id totaly expand on this and give like in depth explinations for each job, but im far to hot and tired to do this tonight >_>

[Alerith]

Paladin > Valor Knight
Dark Knight > Chaos Knight
Red Mage > Red Warlock
White Mage > White Orison
Black Mage > Black Wizard
Monk > Tantra Brawler
Dragoon > Lance Diver
Ninja > Shadow
Ranger > Sylvan Archer
Samurai > Unkai Blade
Warrior > Ravager
Bard > Maestro
Beastmaster > Ferine Tamer
Thief > Assassin
Summoner > Evoker
Puppetmaster > Ventriloquist
Blue Mage > Azure Swordsman
Corsair > Privateer
Dancer > Ravemaster (Ravemistress)
Scholar > Philosopher

[Merton9999]

Oh... my.... god.... I HAVE THE AWNSER GUYS!!!!!!

Job Specific merits Tier3 would be a 30 merit item, that you can place 1 merit into, there would be 3 merit options,
the merit would greatly augment certian aspects of the existing abilities, spells and weaponskills, and allow for even more customiziablity!

imagine a PLD that could DD even better, or a DRK that could tank, or a Nin whos shurikens didnt suck! >_>

id totaly expand on this and give like in depth explinations for each job, but im far to hot and tired to do this tonight >_>

This sounds similar to a thread from a while ago I really liked. I can't find it now and it wasn't my idea, but the concept was for tier 3 merits to be divided into "Specializations". Each job would have two or more upgraded job specializations, each with multiple merit abilities in it. You'd be able to unlock and enhance every one of the abilities from all specializations. But the restriction is that you'd have to set a specialization in your mog house, much like setting a sub job. Once you set it, you'd have access to all the bonuses and abilities from that specialization, but you could change in your MH at any time.

So RDM could be a RDM: Magic Fencer, with merit abilities that supported a melee heavy concentration with abilities like Runic, accuracy bonus, more WSs, more potent enspells, etc. Or you could set your specialization to RDM: Oracle, which gave you access to additional enfeebling magic spells and bonuses to enfeebling magic accuracy/potency.

This adds the fun factor of having more job categories and specific skills without having to go through all the steps of adding a new job. SE could do some limited "new job" type stuff by adding an unlock quest for each specialization. It also helps us OCD people who hate not being able to unlock all merit abilities to their fullest, but still gives some balance by not letting you use all the abilities at the same time.

As much as I love this concept for tier 3 merits, there's nothing that would excite me more than a new job. New jobs were the biggest reason I looked forward to each expansion. I honestly don't think SE would go through the whole process again at this point, but if they did I'd love it. I make no claim that new jobs are "needed", but I've always liked new jobs for adding interesting visual, gameplay and lore variety, not necessarily utility.

[Teraniku]

Once upon a time, I remember a community of people that stated Blue Mage will never come to pass. It was unrealistic and didn't have a place in Vana'diel. Another story among the community was the level cap increase to 99. It was stated that SE WOULD NEVER increase the level cap because we will be overpowered and break the game (lol really?). Simply put, it will never happen.

Today, we have not only BLUE MAGE, but Cosair and Scholar. Not only did we transcend past 75, we hit 99!

My point: We should not place limits on what SE potential on making this game better. They've went beyond our doubts and showed us they're committed to exceeding our expectations. Without a doubt, I am sure SE will speak about the future of this game by making a statement about adding possible jobs, expansions, and greater challenges (without logs being part of the reward system).

Let's give SE a little break. Let them response to this topic. I wouldn't mind the additional jobs to the game as long as they have a beneficial role throughout the entire game. Personally, I would like to see another offensive mage job like BLM, BLU,SMN, and SCH. :)

It was a mistake to raise the cap to 99 in the 1st place, imo. The game was fine @ 75. Don't get me wrong they could have added Abyssea / Voidwatch etc. and balanced it @ 75. When they added the unique way you gain XP in Abyssea, they had no choice in raising the cap. In doing so they broke quite a few jobs (RDM and PLD come to mind) (All you SMNs put your hands down, It's never gotten the attention it truly needs to let the job stand with either BLM or the melee DDers) and basically made all the old content obsolete. (I understand their reasoning for this though.)

[Kaisha]

75-cap was stale come the WoTG expansion.

It was either add new gear for lvl75 that invalidates all existing 75-gear, or raise the cap along with it and give us some new toys to play with while they were at it. We already had 50 side-grade pieces back then, didn't need any more.

[Alhanelem]

It was a mistake to raise the cap to 99 in the 1st place, imo. The game was fine @ 75.It wasn't a mistake to raise the level cap. It was a mistake to add jack crap for content after doing so.

[Llana_Virren]

It was a mistake to keep the level cap at 75 for as long as they did. All the abilities/spells accessed were being based on a Lv37 subjob limit, which is why balance went the way of the dinosaur when they lifted cap. No real content or abilities added post-75 because everything had revolved around a level 75 limit for so long, that now at 99 we needed Abyssea (and crap) to give any challenge.

SE pressed the easy button, overall. Of course, for an MMO that's exceeding 10 years online, you can't expect "perfect balance" to remain forever.

But new jobs aren't even needed at this point. There is no mid-game in FFXI unless you go out of your way to create it. So any new job added will be looked at solely from the view of "how do we ensure this is balanced at /49 and 99?" To be honest, there's no need for a new job, at least not without a new expansion, which I don't see happening.

[Basileus]

To be honest, I would rather have "new" content. It's pretty obvious that we have slim pickings as to what they can afford to work on. Because of this, I would rather have them focus on "new" areas and "new" stories. I think we could get more out of new areas than a new job. Just my opinion.

[Randwolf]

We don't need any more jobs. Plus, the game, for the most part, is in its senior years. Just be happy with the new content we are getting. If S/E hadn't screwed up XIV, you wouldn't have the content we have now.

Secondly, I still have tons to do with the current crap in game. If you've maxed all jobs, all gear, completed all quests, completed all missions, etc., you're amazing. But, I'm guessing you haven't since most gamers like that don't hang in one game forever.

Finally, the cap raised to 99 was needed. Getting groups for the old content is close to impossible. At least with a 99 cap, you have a chance to solo a lot more of it.

[MiniDiamond]

Truth be told, I think they should Upgrade from PS2 to PS3. That way there wouldnt be console limitations. Xbox can handle FFXI, it can even handle besieged and Campaign.

Rasing FFXI-Ps2 to Ps3 could allow Square enix to implement better and bigger things into this game.

But I do hope for new jobs~ :3

[Daniel_Hatcher]

We don't need any more jobs. Plus, the game, for the most part, is in its senior years. Just be happy with the new content we are getting. If S/E hadn't screwed up XIV, you wouldn't have the content we have now.

Secondly, I still have tons to do with the current crap in game. If you've maxed all jobs, all gear, completed all quests, completed all missions, etc., you're amazing. But, I'm guessing you haven't since most gamers like that don't hang in one game forever.

Finally, the cap raised to 99 was needed. Getting groups for the old content is close to impossible. At least with a 99 cap, you have a chance to solo a lot more of it.

Technically if the cap wasn't raised to lvl99 then it would still be endgame for lvl75, so lvl99 wasn't needed as such.

Truth be told they've broke so much with lvl99 it's unreal.

[cidbahamut]

Truth be told, I think they should Upgrade from PS2 to PS3. That way there wouldnt be console limitations. Xbox can handle FFXI, it can even handle besieged and Campaign.

Rasing FFXI-Ps2 to Ps3 could allow Square enix to implement better and bigger things into this game.

But I do hope for new jobs~ :3

It just changes from "PS2 limitations" to "game engine limitations".

[MiniDiamond]

It just changes from "PS2 limitations" to "game engine limitations".

Well! With that kind of negativity We'll never get anything!

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Well! With that kind of negativity We'll never get anything!

It's true though. The engine was built around the PS2, removing it wont fix that. They'd need to rewrite the whole engine.

[cidbahamut]

Well! With that kind of negativity We'll never get anything!

Can you make a good business case for them re-writing the game engine? Because I can't. I'd love to see it get the love it needs, but I don't think it would be a wise decision financially.

[MiniDiamond]

It's true though. The engine was built around the PS2, removing it wont fix that. They'd need to rewrite the whole engine.


Can you make a good business case for them re-writing the game engine? Because I can't. I'd love to see it get the love it needs, but I don't think it would be a wise decision financially.

There can be hope!! Tho with FFXIV 2.0 close by, I think most of the ps2 Population will switch. :x

[cidbahamut]

There can be hope!!

You really don't seem to understand the scope of the issue.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

There can be hope!! Tho with FFXIV 2.0 close by, I think most of the ps2 Population will switch. :x

Most of the FFXI population will probably swap, probably what SE is hopping for secretly, though you have to wonder if they wont just wait for PS4 instead of releasing FFXIV on PS3.

You'd need a miracle, hope wont cut it.

[MiniDiamond]

You really don't seem to understand the scope of the issue.
Not really xd;; im kinda fallin asleep at my keyboard.

[cidbahamut]

Not really xd;; im kinda fallin asleep at my keyboard.

Let me put it to you like this then.

Re-writing the engine would be on par with creating an entirely new game. MMOs take even more resources to create than offline games. You're looking at a project that would take several years and an astronomical financial investment to pull off. The returns on that investment would amount to mostly retaining players they were going to retain anyway.

[Alhanelem]

Re-writing the engine would be on par with creating an entirely new game.It's not like SE isn't already doing this with another game.

[cidbahamut]

It's not like SE isn't already doing this with another game.

That doesn't mean it is a good idea.

FFXIV is getting rewired because of some misplaced sense of pride, not because it makes good business sense. If you want to use that angle to argue that FFXI should get cool stuff then go for it. I'm all for FFXI getting nice things.

[user201108211515]

in reguards to peoples conserns with how quicken(timemage) and smile toss(juggler) would work in XI. Would be much like reseting JAs with a cor.

Berserker someone one mentioned. How it differs from war. The (gauntlet)ability to hold 2h weapon with 1 hand. /nin and let the good times roll.

Time mage would be fine since it should lack in cure and no DD. Stop should be like bind where it lasts 3-4 attacks and then wears off. Considering mobs gain resistance to spells. Adding another spell to the bind and petrify rotation wouldnt be a big deal. Slow blind and para 2 are all LV 75 spells. T3s would be nice. Even a t1 ga version would be nice. Demi and the other 2 spells (drawing a blank on the names) 75% 50% 25% hp reduction. Those spells rarely worked in the turn based FF games but we still used them. Odds are you have the mobs HP to 50% by the time it lands so even a 50% reduction becomes 25% technically. So its a spell or 2 worth tryn to cast while waiting for recast on quicken. Xzone and death would be great but to think it would work on high LV nms would be asking too much.

Necromancer with pets isnt a far stretch.

Pretty much every job and JA from past FF games could and should be in this game by now but SE still hasnt fixed the broken(unused) jobs we currently have. SE talks of "balance" but when has this game ever been that way. We need a better developement team or a way to vote on the forums for what we want. Not some guy that prolly played this game for 5 min and thinks he knows what the players want. That is why this game is a consistant let down with every "update" that turns into a nerf of some kind. The people that make the content dont seem to be in touch with the reality of the game or the players.

[Alhanelem]

FFXIV is getting rewired because of some misplaced sense of pride, not because it makes good business sense.Time will tell if it made good business sense or not. Regardless of that, the new client looks awesome and the team behind it should have been in charge from the beginning.

And I don't think that sense of pride was misplaced. Tanaka and the original team responsible figured they could release anything, slap the final fantasy name on it and it would sell. That didn't work, and now someone who might actually deliver something worthy of what the name once stood for has taken the reins.

Why shouldn't they be be upset that they screwed up their flagship brand so hard?

[Camiie]

Don't forget that they have said they won't (for now) remake FFVII, a far more famous/successful/milkable through tie-ins game than FFXI could ever hope to be, because they'd have to... wait for it... rebuild it from the ground up. If they won't do it for VII, what chance does XI have? I'll tell you. ZERO.

[cidbahamut]

Time will tell if it made good business sense or not. Regardless of that, the new client looks awesome and the team behind it should have been in charge from the beginning.

And I don't think that sense of pride was misplaced. Tanaka and the original team responsible figured they could release anything, slap the final fantasy name on it and it would sell. That didn't work, and now someone who might actually deliver something worthy of what the name once stood for has taken the reins.

Why shouldn't they be be upset that they screwed up their flagship brand so hard?

They should totally be upset about that.

The problem is that they think they can salvage the game after the launch they had and are pouring all kinds of resources into it. The ship has sailed and the MMO community branded FFXIV a flop.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

They should totally be upset about that.

The problem is that they think they can salvage the game after the launch they had and are pouring all kinds of resources into it. The ship has sailed and the MMO community branded FFXIV a flop.

It can however fix that image it has enough players, and gaming reviewers that'll give it a new review after 2.0 to do so anyway.

Word of mouth is much better than anything regardless.

[Alhanelem]

The problem is that they think they can salvage the game after the launch they had and are pouring all kinds of resources into it.If they play their cards right and really put their heart into it (it seems like they are), it is possible.

an MMO with a terrible launch bouncing back is not without precedent. Dungeons & Dragons Online was dying fairly soon after its initial release. They upgraded the client to support new technologies, changed their business moddel, revamped a ton of the content (especially the lower level stuff), and now not only is the game alive and kicking, but they're releasing a full expansion, years after it seemed possible the game would die (when the European version was killed off).

1-UP had an interview with Yoshi-P (FFXIV's new director) at E-3 (which included a demonstration of the new FFXIV client) and they touched on this issue a bit:

1UP: It's kind of common sense that after an MMO has a bad launch, you just give up on it and shut the servers down... It's really just the challenge? It's not pride? Or Square can't imagine having the "lost Final Fantasy," number fourteen...?

NY: Yes, there is the aspect there of, you know, "Because we can't let a Final Fantasy fail." But even more than that, there was the fact that, by releasing a game that didn't live up to player expectations, we basically betrayed our player's trust.

They expected something that was at a certain quality and we didn't deliver on that. We felt that if we just stopped there, it would end up hurting Square Enix in the long run if we just gave up. So we decided to go back and show the players that, no, we're really sorry that we did this, we have to show you that we are really into this project and regain the players' trust by showing them that, yes, we're going to give you what you expected. That's been his policy, he's gotten support from the president with that, and the whole company is backing this project now, because we want to get back the player's trust. So the way he and his team saw it, they felt it might have been more damaging (to their reputation at least) if they let the game die than if they tried to save it.


The ship has sailed and the MMO community branded FFXIV a flop. As i suggested, if they really do it right, and really wow people with the new client, they can bounce back. Obviously it will be a lot harder than if they just did it right the first time, but it's not impossible.

[Mostfowl]

As much as I hate to agree with Alhanelem I must admit he's right.

The community branded ffxiv a flop but with the increased playership and revamping of the game they do stand a chance, which is why they are not pouring any money into ffxi. It had its day in the sun and now that sun is setting.

So many ppl I know who claimed up and down and all around they would NEVER partake in ffxiv for a variety of reasons are now all playing. And I am sure there are many on here who claim they wont ever play that are currently and just dont want to admit it OR we will see them in the future and they wont admit being anti-ffxiv either. Curiosity if nothing else may get the better of some and once they give it a chance they will see its not bad. FFxiv V2 is going to be a completely different game, hell even in its current state its a completely different game. I have been with it since beta and the changes have been immense.

So if it is marketed carefully enough it stands quite a fighting chance. See you there!

[Randwolf]

Technically if the cap wasn't raised to lvl99 then it would still be endgame for lvl75, so lvl99 wasn't needed as such.

Truth be told they've broke so much with lvl99 it's unreal.

And, if the cap was lowered to 60, then that would be endgame. My point is that no one wants to do the "old crap." It isn't just about the fact there is "new crap." If there was only "old crap," a lot more of the population would be gone by now and fewer new people would be playing. Level 99 allows people to do things solo or in small groups that wasn't possible before. Things that most people don't do anymore. Take AF mobs, for example. Some of them are still tough for a solo level 75. And, no one does AF anymore, for the most part. If the cap was still 75, a whole lot of people were not going to suddenly start doing AF mobs.

The reality is the game is still dying with a 99 cap. It's just dying slower than if they never raised the cap. A lot of my friends had already quit. And, I was about to join them when they decided to raise the cap. Some of those people have come back. And they said the game is more enjoyable.

p.s. - When I say "no one does AF" I mean en masse. If you couldn't do it solo, you most likely wouldn't get it done. And, there are some people, like myself, who do missions, quests, af, etc. for the completion value. Now, I just don't need to try and get people to do it with me. Which would certainly speed my departure from the game with the frustration added by trying to round up groups of people for old content.