What's up with Max Level Monsters in Lower Level Areas? [Archive]

Iakothm

05-11-2012, 05:37 AM

Is there any need to do the missions early level though? You do that and you find you can't do many because you reach one too high level. At level 99 though you can knock them all out at once.

to unlock Dragoon you need to have atleast started mission 2-3.

Make 'em yourself, level WHM, SCH or RDM, use the Tome as I said etc...

Silent Oil.
Alchemy (24)
Crystal: Water
Yield: 4
HQ #1: 8
HQ #2: 10
HQ #3: 12
Beeswax x 2
Slime Oil x 1
Alchemy (29)
Crystal: Water
Yield: 2
HQ #1: 4
HQ #2: 6
HQ #3: 8
Olive Oil x 1
Beeswax x 2

Prism Powder
Alchemy (36)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 8
HQ #1: 10
HQ #2: 11
HQ #3: 12
Glass Fiber x 2
Ahriman Lens x 1
Alchemy (41)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 6
HQ #1: 8
HQ #2: 10
HQ #3: 12
Artificial Lens x 1
Glass Fiber x 2
Alchemy (41)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 12
Trituration x 1
Triturator x 1
Glass Fiber x 4
Artificial Lens x

What New person is gonna have the money / skill level for this? Also Explain to me how to handle true sight/sound monsters please when you can't stealth/sneak yourself past them and can't handle fighting them.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-11-2012, 05:44 AM

It is possible to get through Windurst 2-1 without passing near aggressive high-level monsters.

3-2, you're boned.

Iakothm

05-11-2012, 05:48 AM

It is possible to get through Windurst 2-1 without passing near aggressive high-level monsters.

3-2, you're boned.

Sorry it is 2-1 i meant that is where i ran into the 83 monster. But none the less you cannot go through that mission without passing by aggressive monsters.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-11-2012, 05:52 AM

Sorry it is 2-1 i meant that is where i ran into the 83 monster. But none the less you cannot go through that mission without passing by aggressive monsters.

Are you sure they're aggressive?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060412164345/ffxi/images/5/53/InnerHorutotoRuins2.png

I haven't looked at the entire path to the Mahogany door lately, but I do know that, while entering this map from A takes you into ZOMG goblins and skeletons, entering from B takes you past non-aggressive beetles and giant bats. I assume that the next fork also has a "right way" and a "wrong way."

Bulrogg

05-11-2012, 06:02 AM

Not everything needs an easy button.

There are things you can farm to buy the required meds to navigate around the aggressive monsters. If that is too much of a time sink for you, then this game may not be the best choice; it's one big time sink all the way.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-11-2012, 06:16 AM

There are things you can farm to buy the required meds to navigate around the aggressive monsters.

If this were Bastok, home of the Alchemy Guild, that might mean something.

But regardless, when it comes to rank missions, the standard shouldn't be "Do you have alchemy skilled?" but rather "can you fight your way through any aggressive monsters at the level needed to equip the CP rewards?" Since rank 2 CP items are generally aimed at level 20, a light-to-full party of 20's should be able to do it without having to spend gil on consumables and/or skill a craft.

Bulrogg

05-11-2012, 06:20 AM

You mean you can't buy meds from other starting cities? :rolleyes: Should be easier now with linked Auction Houses. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding your reason for quoting.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-11-2012, 06:34 AM

You mean you can't buy meds from other starting cities? :rolleyes: Should be easier now with linked Auction Houses. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding your reason for quoting.

Can do it by financially supporting a complete, high-level/skill stranger a continent away from the nation in question? Yes. Should be required to, especially when there's absolutely no connection to the lore? No.

If a Windurst mission is going to require consumables (and no mission should), it should be food, not medicines.

cidbahamut

05-11-2012, 06:41 AM

Not everything needs an easy button.

What is this "easy button" nonsense? This is SE screwing up really basic level design, plain and simple.

Bulrogg

05-11-2012, 06:50 AM

Lisotte

05-11-2012, 07:08 AM

to unlock Dragoon you need to have atleast started mission 2-3.

snip yadda yadda ya

What New person is gonna have the money / skill level for this? Also Explain to me how to handle true sight/sound monsters please when you can't stealth/sneak yourself past them and can't handle fighting them.

Again, people said just level whm, rdm or sch (probably not sch, lol; that'd require sneak/invis in and of itself).
All you have to do is reach lvl 25, get the scrolls for sneak/invis (don't know the exact price but should be fairly cheap; available on AH and from npcs), then you're set. You can reach lvl 25 in one average-lasting sitting, soloing 1-10 then 10-25 in gusgen.

As to handling truesight/sound mobs... same way you're gonna have to deal with them the rest of the game: avoid them. There's plenty of times in the game where you're going to need to know how to avoid truesight/sound mobs, it's a matter of patience avoiding them.

Oh, and here's the easy answer:
1) Join a friendly linkshell
2) Make friends with one of them that has sneak/invis
3) ???
4) Profit!!!

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-11-2012, 07:23 AM

Again, people said just level whm, rdm

Jobs more associated with San d'Oria than Windurst.

or sch

An expansion-pack job for a core-game mission.

All you have to do is reach lvl 25, get the scrolls for sneak/invis

Five levels higher than the rank's CP gear.

10-25 in gusgen.

Nowhere near Windurst.

Oh, and here's the easy answer:
1) Join a friendly linkshell
2) Make friends with one of them that has sneak/invis
3) ???
4) Profit!!!

This is why we can't have nice things.

I'm serious. When all the playerbase cares about is getting past the "fluff" to endgame, the devs won't give us anything but endgame.

Logandor

05-11-2012, 07:32 AM

You know this was mentioned in millions of other forums as well.
The issue is getting your skills high enough to either A) use magic to get past or B) items. I agree with a lot of people on here that crafting is a good route to go or to level up a mage job to 25. (Aka whm gets sneak and invis at that level as well as reraise.)
Yes new people don't have the funds to afford those 20k-35k items but they can go right outside and farm up items that will and have sold nicely on the auction house. Silk thread still sells great as well as beehive chips. Bird eggs are always a nice thing to sell as well. Before that new player knows it he/she can have 50k at the very least farmed up and sold. Another great suggestion that was suggested was joining linkshells that are new player friendly (very well recommended) or making friends with people who have mage jobs leveled. :) There is a million and one ideas on how to get past those high level mobs which I might add some are aggressive. (Gobs I noticed can be.)
At the mahogany door there is a book very close so you can just use it to get out after the mission and on the way there just ask someone for a hand on getting the hidden door open for you. If they are already there I can't see that breaking their little backs to do; I know I've taken time aside to open it for some people passing through that didn't want to take circ off to open it.
True sight/sound mobs I have not seen in the area for rank missions 1-3 at all. Maybe I have had the luck of them not being up, idk, but what I do know is that unless they really screwed up on monster placing there is no true sight/sound mobs in the area for windy rank missions 1-3.(I don't remember Bastok and Sandy ones to be honet.) Mainly the only places I have seen true sight/sound mobs that give issues is aby to be honest. All others are very simple to by-pass if you stand far enough back and take a look at what way they are moving. Hell I take it back most aby true sight/sound ones are even judge-able to by pass if timed right.

But Anyways your best bet is to level the jobs that have sneak/invis, get friends with those jobs leveled, or start farming for gil, OR join a ls that does not mind lending you a hand on missions. ^.^ Happy ranking.

Iakothm

05-11-2012, 10:58 AM

wildsprite

05-11-2012, 01:44 PM

I for one disagree with the placement of these higher level mobs, they should not be in low level areas in the first place,I think the programmers should have found a way to use the 3 areas introduced in WoTG for these mobs, I'm sure they could have come up with a nice story line to let you unlock the entrance to them and its not like those 3 places are tiny either

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-11-2012, 02:12 PM

The devs' problem was trying to find a way to allow a player to get all the way to 99 without owning any expansion packs. Overall, this solution works (even if it isn't very elegant), and only needs some fine-tuning.

Masekase

05-11-2012, 06:50 PM

Can do it by financially supporting a complete, high-level/skill stranger a continent away from the nation in question? Yes. Should be required to, especially when there's absolutely no connection to the lore? No.

If a Windurst mission is going to require consumables (and no mission should), it should be food, not medicines.

LOL really ppl want it to easy most missions you needed consumables before they were nerfed nerfed and nerfed again. Dont wanna use consumables lvl a mage job with snk and invis. Options are available

Astarek

05-11-2012, 10:00 PM

to unlock Dragoon you need to have atleast started mission 2-3.

Silent Oil.
Alchemy (24)
Crystal: Water
Yield: 4
HQ #1: 8
HQ #2: 10
HQ #3: 12
Beeswax x 2
Slime Oil x 1
Alchemy (29)
Crystal: Water
Yield: 2
HQ #1: 4
HQ #2: 6
HQ #3: 8
Olive Oil x 1
Beeswax x 2

Prism Powder
Alchemy (36)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 8
HQ #1: 10
HQ #2: 11
HQ #3: 12
Glass Fiber x 2
Ahriman Lens x 1
Alchemy (41)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 6
HQ #1: 8
HQ #2: 10
HQ #3: 12
Artificial Lens x 1
Glass Fiber x 2
Alchemy (41)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 12
Trituration x 1
Triturator x 1
Glass Fiber x 4
Artificial Lens x

What New person is gonna have the money / skill level for this? Also Explain to me how to handle true sight/sound monsters please when you can't stealth/sneak yourself past them and can't handle fighting them.

I think he meant you need to lvl up one of these jobs so u can have snk/ inv etc, u know if u lvl whm at 20 u can get all needed spells, but anyway, i wish I was in ur server to give you a hand .
good luck!

wildsprite

05-11-2012, 10:09 PM

I think he meant you need to lvl up one of these jobs so u can have snk/ inv etc, u know if u lvl whm at 20 u can get all needed spells, but anyway, i wish I was in ur server to give you a hand .
good luck!
its 25, WHM has sneak at lv20 and invis at lv25, so doesn't RDM and SCH

Babekeke

05-12-2012, 12:24 AM

What I did on my mule:

Level monk naked solo to lvl ~12.
Run to Gusgen mines.
Join a book burn party and stay there until level 30.
Run to jeuno and start the Dancer quest.
Follow the guide on the dancer quest to obtain it without having to spend any gil.
Level dancer solo naked to level ~12.
Run to Gusgen mines.
Join a book burn party to reach level 25+.
Congratulations, you now have sneak and incis and didn't need a single gil for it. You also have enough conquest points for reraise scrolls, and enough tabs for reraise, warps and Circumspection WHICH IS AVAILABLE IN AREAS WITH THE HIGH LEVEL MOBS THAT YOU SPEAK OF AND GIVES YOU SNEAK AND INVIS!

If you're really keen, take your dancer to crawler's nest and reach level 55 to get Chocobo Jig for increased movement speed when you are able to use circumspection.

That is all, enjoy.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 12:45 AM

Circumspection WHICH IS AVAILABLE IN AREAS WITH THE HIGH LEVEL MOBS THAT YOU SPEAK OF AND GIVES YOU SNEAK AND INVIS!

OP is talking about Inner Horutoto Ruins and a mission therein that involves having to open doors.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 12:59 AM

I just verified that there is an aggro-free path to the Mahogany Door (and the Grounds Tome near it, which makes 3-2 doable). Just take the southern paths and you'll only pass non-aggressive giant bats and beetles.

Meyi

05-12-2012, 03:57 AM

Silent Oil.
Alchemy (24)
Crystal: Water
Yield: 4
HQ #1: 8
HQ #2: 10
HQ #3: 12
Beeswax x 2
Slime Oil x 1
Alchemy (29)
Crystal: Water
Yield: 2
HQ #1: 4
HQ #2: 6
HQ #3: 8
Olive Oil x 1
Beeswax x 2

Prism Powder
Alchemy (36)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 8
HQ #1: 10
HQ #2: 11
HQ #3: 12
Glass Fiber x 2
Ahriman Lens x 1
Alchemy (41)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 6
HQ #1: 8
HQ #2: 10
HQ #3: 12
Artificial Lens x 1
Glass Fiber x 2
Alchemy (41)
Crystal: Light
Yield: 12
Trituration x 1
Triturator x 1
Glass Fiber x 4
Artificial Lens x

What New person is gonna have the money / skill level for this? Also Explain to me how to handle true sight/sound monsters please when you can't stealth/sneak yourself past them and can't handle fighting them.

Actually, Alchemy is extremely cheap to level up. Especially up to this level.

Levels 1~7: Tsurara (Ice Crystal, Rock Salt, Distilled Waterx2). The most expensive part of this is the ice crystals. Rock salt is 14~67 gil a piece, and distilled water is 9~12 gil a piece. So, let's say materials are at a maximum cost, this synth will cost 258g a synth. Makes 10 tsurara, which sell to NPCs for 9~10g a piece. A loss of 158g a synth which is really minor. And if you have the patience, you can sell stacks of 99 for about 3~4k, which will actually be a profit.

Levels 7~12: Poison Dust (Lightning Crystal + 2 Yellow Globes). A bit more expensive, as Yellow Globes are about 10k a stack. Lightning Crystals are about 2k a stack. I would propose saving up 26k (or asking a friend for a temporary borrow) and buying a Halcyon Rod, then grab some Worm Lures and go to the Qufim Island ice pond to fish up Yellow Globes yourself. When you're done with alchemy, you can always sell the rod back and make back the 26k that went into it! :) Keep dust for later.

Levels 12~16: Mercury (Lightning Crystal + 4 Cobalt Jellyfish). Another fish recipe. Sometimes you can get lucky and buy large quantities of them at the Windurst Fishing Guild for super cheap (24g a piece), but if not, you can always fish them yourself. Easy to catch with Halycon Rod and Fly Lure at Batallia Downs. Keep Mercury for later.

Levels 16~18: Poison Potion (Water Crystal + Poison Dust + Mercury). Should have plenty from the last two steps to make this. Also, this is the guild item to advance to the next stage. Win win win! Keep the rest or sell if you have lots of excess.

Levels 18~22: Poison Dagger (Water Crystal + Dagger + Animal Glue + Poison Potion). Dagger is made with level 20 Smithing (Fire Crystal + Iron Ingot + Bronze Ingot). Can also be bought from NPCs for 1,827~2,111 gil. Also about 3k on the Auction House. However, Poison Daggers are worth about 10k on the Auction House, are used in Alchemy Guild Points, and if worse comes to worse, can be NPCed back for some money.

Levels 22~27: Blinding Potion (Water Crystal + Crying Mustard + Poison Flour + Sleepshroom). Crying Mustard is incredibly cheap (max of 30g) from Benaige in South San d'Oria, and Poison Flour is 515g from Pawkrix in Lower Jeuno. But that's okay, because Sleepshrooms drop like crazy from Grass Funguars in La Theine Plateau. Blinding Potion is used for the next rank up and next synthesis.

Levels 27~32: Blind Dagger (Water Crystal + Animal Glue + Bronze Dagger + Blinding Potion). Bronze Daggers are 140~162gil, so super cheap, and the Blinding Potions should be readily accessible from the previous synth. Animal Glue should be the main concern here (Fire Crystal, 2 Bone Chips, 1 Rabbit Hide, 1 Distilled Water). However, because everyone now parties in Gusgen Mines for levels on end, Bone Chips should be plentiful, and this synth should be very cheap... or at least easy to gather mats for.

Sell the rest of excess materials either on the Auction House or to NPCs. You shouldn't be out too much money. Now you can make Silent Oils and Prism Powders on your own. :) With money these levels could easily be done in a day. Without money, it will take a bit longer, but you should be able to handle it just fine!

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 04:29 AM

Actually, Alchemy is extremely cheap to level up. Especially up to this level.

You forgot "Level 10/20/30: hike your buttaru out to Bastok to pass the rank examinations, just to get through a low-level Windurst mission."

Meyi

05-12-2012, 04:37 AM

You forgot "Level 10/20/30: hike your buttaru out to Bastok to pass the rank examinations, just to get through a low-level Windurst mission."

Really going to go there? Fine.

Go to the eastern most tower of Horototo Ruins and farm the shit out of Goblin Thugs. They drop Wild Onions. Sell them by the dozens on the auction house until you save up 30k for silent oils/prism powders, and buy them.

Sorry for being helpful. Yeesh.

Edit: hate to see the complaining when Mission 2-3 rolls around and traveling to the other two nations comes into play.

Zerich

05-12-2012, 04:55 AM

Krashport

05-12-2012, 05:01 AM

I wanna note I am not asking for the quests to be made Easier I have no problem at the idea of doing stuff in a party with people my level or having to gain a couple extra levels. But having monsters to where I would need to be max level to fight is just stupid. Also all you saying use sneak/invis from book you have to open doors so that is impossible since the first door you come to you have to lose invis. I don't see why they felt the need to add high level monsters to areas that are lower level anyways.

It does sound like you want things made super easy., Finding it very tough to lose invisible open said door and re-invisible afterward... there is way more things within Vana'Diel that are tough(er) I would suggest getting out now (my opinion). :p

Example High level mobs;
Lv.1~30 (IT)
Lv.31~70(T)
Lv.71~80(EM)
Lv.81~95(DC)
Lv.96~99(EP)
The game has changed, it is FFXI 2.0 now get over it... (Lv.99cap) and the window for how Mobs /Check has been made of a wider range...

wanna give me the 30k a stack they are selling for?
Sounds to me you want a handout. Then again there are beggars running around Vana'Diel asking other members for Gil, just makes you one of them but on the forums for everyone see.

cidbahamut

05-12-2012, 05:09 AM

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. Why on earth are you people so intent on defending SE's bad level design changes?

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 05:23 AM

Nation: Windurst
Mission: "Lost For Words"
Areas involved: Windurst Woods, Maze of Shakhrami, Inner Horutoto Ruins, Windurst Walls
Jobs of involved NPCs (where applicable): THF, BLM, SMN

Excepting the level 80+ goblins and skeletons now roaming the "Beetle's Burrow" portion of Inner Horutoto Ruins, the highest-level aggressive monsters near the places that need to be reached are Maze Scorpions in the Maze of Shakhrami, which are T/VT to the target level of 20; many duos and most trios at the target level won't find fighting their way through too challenging.

As I noted above, in this specific example it is possible to avoid the aggressive level-80+ monsters. However, with regards to storyline and lore, there is (and should be) absolutely, positively no reason to go anywhere near Jeuno or Selbina before any nation's 2-3. Relatively adequate gear is available for sale at these missions' low levels from NPC shops in starting cities or, at the very least, in exchange for CP.

"Go to the Auction House and..." should never be a requirement for any mission.

Tamoa

05-12-2012, 05:44 AM

It doesn't matter what level you are, there will always be monsters that are aggressive and can kill you. Sneak and invisible in some form will be required at some point whether you are level 20 or level 99. Every now and again you will also come across true sight/sound monsters. Deal with it.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 05:51 AM

It doesn't matter what level you are, there will always be monsters that are aggressive and can kill you. Sneak and invisible in some form will be required at some point whether you are level 20 or level 99.

Outside of ACP and maybe ASA, name one such mission.

Alhanelem

05-12-2012, 05:51 AM

What's up with Max Level Monsters in Lower Level Areas?

Answer: SE was too lazy to make new high level open areas, so they decided to re-populate disused areas with higher level monsters so that they might be used more. Why make new content when you can recycle old content? (sigh...)

Zerich

05-12-2012, 05:52 AM

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. Why on earth are you people so intent on defending SE's bad level design changes?

holy sockpuppets batman!

circumspection (sp) <<do you need it?>>

cidbahamut

05-12-2012, 06:01 AM

holy sockpuppets batman!

circumspection (sp) <<do you need it?>>

Correcting level design that got screwed up when they added super high level mobs to a low level zone is a bad thing why exactly?

Meyi

05-12-2012, 06:02 AM

Jesus tap-dancing Christ. Why on earth are you people so intent on defending SE's bad level design changes?

I agree that the layout is bad. I think they should change it. However, there are currently ways to avoid aggro from higher level monsters while waiting for Square Enix to fix its errors. But, to refuse to buy medicines that several players use already simply because of money (and then refusing to get the skill levels to make them) is lazy. Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to in order to make the things we do want to do easier to accomplish.

"Go to the Auction House and..." should never be a requirement for any mission.

Hm, Bastok's Mission 6-2 requires an Adaman Ore. Could have been mined, just like silent oils and prism powders can be crafted.

cidbahamut

05-12-2012, 06:05 AM

I agree that the layout is bad. I think they should change it. However, there are currently ways to avoid aggro from higher level monsters while waiting for Square Enix to fix its errors. But, to refuse to buy medicines that several players use already simply because of money (and then refusing to get the skill levels to make them) is lazy. Sometimes we have to do things we don't want to in order to make the things we do want to do easier to accomplish.

Then we're in agreement. The level design is borked and needs to be fixed. In the meantime there are workarounds, even if they are less than ideal.

Zerich

05-12-2012, 06:05 AM

Correcting level design that got screwed up when they added super high level mobs to a low level zone is a bad thing why exactly?

no one agrees that the new placement of mobs is good. i for one just think it's SE's way of reassuring us that we will never be getting new areas. but for the record, there are so many other ways in-game, to get over this obstacle.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 06:22 AM

Hm, Bastok's Mission 6-2 requires an Adaman Ore. Could have been mined, just like silent oils and prism powders can be crafted.

Mining doesn't require skill, is closely tied to Bastok in the lore, and the required "ingredient" (i.e. pickaxes) is sold by NPCs everywhere.

Alchemy requires skill, has nothing to do with Windurst, and the required ingredients aren't consistently available from NPCs and/or require farming monsters impossible to defeat at the mission's target level.

wildsprite

05-12-2012, 06:39 AM

to the OP and anyone else interested, I would like to point out my post from before this one as a rep has answered it here is the answer
Greetings everyone,

Wildsprite, thank you for pointing this out and we appreciate everyone's feedback on the relocation of high-level monsters in areas like Dangruf Wadi. We do apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

In regards to the positioning of these monsters, we would like to take a look at it so that players can avoid being attacked by high-level monsters without warning. As a first step, we feel it would be good to address this earlier by making certain aggressive monsters non-aggressive.

We will be sure to give an update as soon as we get word on the progress.

and here is my thread, as they said they would update perhaps you should keep an eye on it http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/23055-Really-SE-why-why-why?p=314070&viewfull=1#post314070

Juilan

05-12-2012, 07:42 AM

Oh my. :rolleyes:

If one wants to navigate the lands of Vana'diel they either need to level up or acquire meds to traverse safely. What does lore have to do with that? There are monsters you are trying to evade, that should be enough motivation.

I generally don't comment about the stupidity of posts, I'd have 10 000+ posts if that was the case. But you sir have tipped the scale. Go back to when SE didn't get the bright idea of rejuvenating zones by adding books and monsters for higher level players to get 50~ xp per kill while doing pages (that aren't even rationally near each other). As a level 75 player I could run through these zones and not aggro, as a level 30 player I could run through these zones without aggro. The façade made from the dev's team sloth is no reason to defend their mistakes. I feel like making inflammatory comments towards your ethos but I'll avoid that. News flash, not everything SE does is correct, remapping monsters in zones and making high level monsters fit into low level zones was an example of a horrible idea spurred by their lack of imagination to make zones geared towards higher level players.

Sic, the OP is mentioning how SE quarter assed the level 99 increase, it feels to me, and im sure many other members that level 99 was an esthetic change rather than anything else. But since SE rather spend resources on other projects, no matter how asinine they are, we get this lame façade of FFXI that fan boys like you defend, it is tiring...

Krashport

05-12-2012, 08:28 AM

Sic, the OP is mentioning how SE quarter assed the level 99 increase,
Seriously... Did my mission 1-x and ran into a level 83 monster in Horototto Ruins and am finding they added these monsters to areas all over.... WHY? How am I supposed to get my quests done when I can't find max level characters to help?

wanna give me the 30k a stack they are selling for?

Juilan, I'm sorry but you're defending a person that I feel wants a handout and can't play an RPG effectivly to help themselves, left alone mentioning how SE quarter assed the level 99 increase. I'm not to sure if the OP is bright enough to know what you're talking about. Crying about taking off S/I and asking for Gil just gives me that impression.

it feels to me, and im sure many other members that level 99 was an esthetic change rather than anything else. But since SE rather spend resources on other projects, no matter how asinine they are, we get this lame façade of FFXI that fan boys like you defend, it is tiring...

So empowered, that Level 99 "Should" have came with new areas. Reminder you don't own your character, you're just renting it. If the company wants to change their vision, that is what their going to do. Can voice ideas and what not that doesn't mean said company has to do it. Of course I would like NEW AREAS, I would think most everyone that plays FFXI does as well, tbh why not it would give more life to the game. But all and all crying about sneak/invisible is not going to make new areas happen.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 10:39 AM

Juilan, I'm sorry but you're defending a person that I feel wants a handout

He was trying to make a point, similar to a point I tried to make (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12039-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Job-Adjustments-Manifesto-Paladin?p=180944#post180944) almost a year ago. Lack of comprehension pervaded there, too.

At any rate...

and can't play an RPG effectivly to help themselves

How is one expected to "help themselves" when "helping themselves" requires the intervention of a high-level player?

You want a level ~20 to go skill alchemy. Getting the skill (and the ingredients for the meds in question) isn't realistic until level ~40 (not to mention the abominable timesink of skilling a craft in and of itself). Your only other suggestions boil down to "get assistance from someone else's high-level character" in one way or another.

Call that what you will, but "helping oneself" it is not. At best, it's "make yourself useful to someone else."

Iakothm

05-12-2012, 11:26 AM

He was trying to make a point, similar to a point I tried to make (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12039-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Job-Adjustments-Manifesto-Paladin?p=180944#post180944) almost a year ago. Lack of comprehension pervaded there, too.

At any rate...

How is one expected to "help themselves" when "helping themselves" requires the intervention of a high-level player?

You want a level ~20 to go skill alchemy. Getting the skill (and the ingredients for the meds in question) isn't realistic until level ~40 (not to mention the abominable timesink of skilling a craft in and of itself). Your only other suggestions boil down to "get assistance from someone else's high-level character" in one way or another.

Call that what you will, but "helping oneself" it is not. At best, it's "make yourself useful to someone else."

I chose to ignore that guy because he feels the need to make me look like a moocher and like that makes my point Invalid. The fact of the matter is they told me to go buy that stuff and i pointed out that 30k a stack at low levels? yeah right not happening. I have never asked for anything for free since I started.

Yeah you can ask for high level help but that's my complaint. I don't want to have to ask someone who is max level for help. I would like to be able to handle the mission with people my level or by myself.

Catsby

05-12-2012, 12:54 PM

Did we seriously get all Burden of Knowledge on a new player? Damn...

Shadowsong

05-12-2012, 01:46 PM

... they told me to go buy that stuff and i pointed out that 30k a stack at low levels? yeah right not happening. I have never asked for anything for free since I started.

Yeah you can ask for high level help but that's my complaint. I don't want to have to ask someone who is max level for help. I would like to be able to handle the mission with people my level or by myself.

Why is 30k gil so hard to obtain!? Farm Wild Onions, Silk Thread, or Beehive Chips, how lazy cab you POSSIBLY be!? Ive never seen as lazy people as Im seeing post here. Do the work, get the items you need, and shut up about it. No one cares about how hard it is for you to do something that should take 20 minutes. You think its unfair? No one cares about that either.
Just quit now, you sound like you are going to be a terrible high level.

To the person who said you shouldnt have to use the auction house to complete missions. Oh Im sorry, is this your game now? Do what you have to do, what good does whining about it do?
Im not even going to comment on how retarded bring "lore" into ANY conversation is. Grow up

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 01:57 PM

Why is 30k gil so hard to obtain!?

Why should lining someone else's pockets be a requirement?

Alternatively, why shouldn't he (hypothetically) buy gil from an RMT if the game is so gil-centric?

No one cares about how hard it is for you to do something that should take 20 minutes. You think its unfair? No one cares about that either.

You apparently care enough to post.

Just quit now, you sound like you are going to be a terrible high level.

With charming examples of the playerbase like you offering sage advice to new players like "Bend over like I did," it's no wonder the game is foundering.

FFXI: come for the grind, stay for the hazing!

Shadowsong

05-12-2012, 02:22 PM

Why should lining someone else's pockets be a requirement

Because that's how the game works.

Circumspection says Hi! Your lack of game knowledge makes baby jesus cry.

Tsukino_Kaji

05-12-2012, 02:25 PM

Circumspection says Hi!Said it already, a lot of them are in locations that require you to drop invis to advance, making it useless.

Shadowsong

05-12-2012, 02:28 PM

Fair enough, but all this bitching is cray-cray. Go play the game back in 2005 and see how "convenient" it was for us to obtain the Parchment for the first limit break.
Such lazy lazy players, I dont even think I want you higher level, polluting my parties.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 02:29 PM

Because that's how the game works.

Except that your little chicken-and-egg problem only goes back to '02.

Shadowsong

05-12-2012, 02:38 PM

Ya know what?
The mules name, posting from a level 1 smn, posting Starcade level ramblings...

I think we've all taken troll bait ><
Either that, or its my brain trying to autocorrect this situation...

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 03:14 PM

posting from a level 1 smn,

Kinda hard to have a level anything SMN without having something else 30+.

It is still possible to find enjoyment in FFXI without having to rely on bragging and epeen, despite the devs' best efforts.

At any rate, job and level are no indication of the number of times I've gone through these core-game missions with new players, level sync'd to them more often than not. If anyone doesn't know what they're talking about here, it's someone who hasn't truly seen the outside of endgame in years.

Xantavia

05-12-2012, 05:30 PM

I think people are missing the part about how a full party of players at the appropriate level to do these missions has no chance to survive if they get aggro. I don't think the OP would have a problem if the the mobs checked IT, but a low IT that a full party could manage. Later on in the windy mission line, it is required to go to the 3-mage gate. There are 80+ level goblins on the way, impossible to handle if you are mixing up leveling with missions. Level to 99, then do it should never be the answer.

The same thing with heading to Fei Yin for 5-1. Since this used to be a 50 cap, it is reasonable to assume that regular mobs on the path to the BCNM should be killable by a party of level 50's. But the room full of ghosts on the way there would once again be certain death if someone got aggro at that level.

Iakothm

05-12-2012, 06:15 PM

Bulrogg

05-12-2012, 09:21 PM

You forgot "Level 10/20/30: hike your buttaru out to Bastok to pass the rank examinations, just to get through a low-level Windurst mission."

--wait for ease of exploration Kupo-powers? ("Why should I have to wait?" Well there are other options but less lore-tied, since lore is the only valid reason to do anything in game :rolleyes:)

hate to see the complaining when Mission 2-3 rolls around and traveling to the other two nations comes into play.

--I was thinking the same thing. At least there have been some adjustments to make traversing Vana'diel a little easier.

Stuff
Jumping in all tl;dr? :confused:

We're not talking about just getting from point A ---> B. It's about the placement of high level monsters in the areas that need to be avoided in order to complete missions.

But in regards to you're comment: I find it funny because when my brother, some friends and myself set out to do these missions, almost a decade ago around level 30 there were still aggressive monsters that had to be avoided. Not these new insanely high level mobs, but they were still aggressive and needed to be avoided. Yes the newly added monsters were mentioned but the topic is more about:
How am I supposed to get my quests done when I can't find max level characters to help?

Our options then were to level up a job that could sneak/inv, acquire meds to sneak/inv, or get help in the form of a high level escort or competent and compatible party. These seem like viable options still, more so than complaining to SE about it in hopes that they will move some monsters around.

I'm not defending the design/layout of the new monsters; it is flawed. But in regards to completing missions/quest and high level monsters, there are options to get these completed if people aren't too thick-skulled about it. Or they can play SE's favorite FFXI mini-game: 'The waiting game' and maybe the areas will get adjusted.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-12-2012, 09:42 PM

Later on in the windy mission line, it is required to go to the 3-mage gate. There are 80+ level goblins on the way, impossible to handle if you are mixing up leveling with missions.

For Windurst 3-2, the Grounds Tome they apparently added near the Mahogany Door fixes that problem.

Zerich

05-12-2012, 09:55 PM

Level whm *close thread*

Meyi

05-13-2012, 02:35 AM

Mining doesn't require skill, is closely tied to Bastok in the lore, and the required "ingredient" (i.e. pickaxes) is sold by NPCs everywhere.

No, but mining requires you go to very dangerous places to get anything worth any value.

Majority of Alchemy synth items are sold by NPCs as well. And Alchemy doesn't require you go be in zones that will most likely destroy you if you aren't a high level player.

Alchemy requires skill, has nothing to do with Windurst, and the required ingredients aren't consistently available from NPCs and/or require farming monsters impossible to defeat at the mission's target level.

Alchemy is a good skill to have as it can bring in decent money at higher levels. And skill is something that never goes away (unless you take it past 60 and then take another craft past 60). If going to Bastok is too much of a pain, an Alchemy mule could be created (it's only a dollar more a month). But, as someone who's wanting to adventure, I think it's a wise idea to actually explore the world of Vana'diel -- going to Bastok, a main city, is a good place to start.

Most ingredients (especially for lower level synths) are sold from NPCs. Getting the ingredients at his level wouldn't be a problem at all -- Rock Salt (NPC), Distilled Water (NPC), Yellow Globes (fishing in Qufim Island), Cobalt Jellyfish (NPC), Dagger (NPC), Animal Glue (synth with bone chip (AH/Gusgen Mines party) distilled water and rabbit hides (NPC or low level bunnies)), Crying Mustard (NPC), Poison Flour (NPC), Sleepshroom (low level funguar), and Bronze Dagger (NPC). To get to level 32+ is very very easy, even for a lower level player. :/ And, Alchemy is something that can be used in the future! It's truly a valuable skill and I think this is a good time to consider leveling it.

I don't understand your great disdain against helping a fellow player gain the appropriate knowledge and skills to avoid unwanted monsters. They exist everywhere, not just in the revamped zones. There have been many monsters for many events that proved irritating and difficult to maneuver around -- players did so with sneak, invis, and large groups. I'm aware that Square Enix has changed many things about the game, made many events much easier, and having level 99 helps tremendously with foes of the past. However, I also did many events at a low level with friends, in large groups, and suffered much grieving over obstacles. These obstacles trained me to avoid them, and avoid them effectively. So, while I hate to be the guy who says "I had to do it, so so do you!", I think this is a decent learning opportunity for this new young adventurer. And while Square Enix is figuring out how to fix this situation, I think we should be encouraging the player to grow and develop, not pamper them.

Tsukino_Kaji

05-13-2012, 03:04 AM

For Windurst 3-2, the Grounds Tome they apparently added near the Mahogany Door fixes that problem.You stll need invis to get there in the first place and the books to get you there are all on the other side of the doors, making them useless.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-13-2012, 03:19 AM

No, but mining requires you go to very dangerous places to get anything worth any value.

The target level of the mission you cite is ~55. Even discounting the possibility of getting adaman ore from chocobo digging, three or so 55's in a party can securely get around large portions of Ifrit's Cauldron.

Majority of Alchemy synth items are sold by NPCs as well. And Alchemy doesn't require you go be in zones that will most likely destroy you if you aren't a high level player.

A level 20 player will not be farming an Ahriman Lens to make Prism Powders with.

If going to Bastok is too much of a pain, an Alchemy mule could be created (it's only a dollar more a month).

So your advice goes from "Give someone else gil" to "Give someone else dollars?"

But, as someone who's wanting to adventure, I think it's a wise idea to actually explore the world of Vana'diel -- going to Bastok, a main city, is a good place to start.

Why must a Windurstian explore Bastok before exploring Windurst's own backyard?

Most ingredients (especially for lower level synths) are sold from NPCs.

Most crystals are not, and Light Crystals (necessary for Prism Powders) are notoriously difficult to find at low levels.

And, Alchemy is something that can be used in the future! It's truly a valuable skill and I think this is a good time to consider leveling it.

But why should it be a requirement?

I don't understand your great disdain against helping a fellow player gain the appropriate knowledge and skills to avoid unwanted monsters.

It should never be required.

They exist everywhere, not just in the revamped zones. There have been many monsters for many events that proved irritating and difficult to maneuver around

"Irritating and difficult" does not not mean "impossible." Name one non-addon mission in which sneak/invis was a requirement.

-- players did so with sneak, invis, and large groups.

"Large groups" isn't the same as "including a 99 in that group."

So, while I hate to be the guy who says "I had to do it, so so do you!",

In this case, you never had to do it in such conditions.

I think we should be encouraging the player to grow and develop, not pamper them.

And how is this accomplished by "Maek high-level friends, n00b?"

Meyi

05-13-2012, 03:37 AM

Ugh...so many of your responses are giving me a headache. But I will respond to this one because I found it the most important to clear up with you.

"Large groups" isn't the same as "including a 99 in that group."

Level 99 didn't exist back in 2003. Of course large group does not equate including a 99 in that group. Large is a reference to number of players, not levels. Back in 2003, large groups consisted of an alliance of lower level players who all had the same goal.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-13-2012, 04:12 AM

Back in 2003, large groups consisted of an alliance of lower level players who all had the same goal.

And today, about the only thing a full alliance of level 20 players can do against a level 80+ goblin is give it TP. The only way they'd last a minute before wiping is if the goblin has a particularly slow weapon in its hand.

Krashport

05-13-2012, 04:27 AM

And today, about the only thing a full alliance of level 20 players can do against a level 80+ goblin is give it TP. The only way they'd last a minute before wiping is if the goblin has a particularly slow weapon in its hand.

If you're xp'in off Lv.80+ mobs around Lv.20 you're doing it wrong.... ^^;

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-13-2012, 04:38 AM

If you're xp'in off Lv.80+ mobs around Lv.20 you're doing it wrong.... ^^;

EXP isn't the goal, the goal is completing the mission. There "just happens" to be level 80+ goblins and skeletons in Beetle's Burrow.

GOTO 10

Zerich

05-13-2012, 07:59 AM

EXP isn't the goal, the goal is completing the mission. There "just happens" to be level 80+ goblins and skeletons in Beetle's Burrow.

GOTO 10

llllevel whm

Iakothm

05-13-2012, 08:03 AM

llllevel whm

Level a class you don't want to be should never be how a game should be.

Zerich

05-13-2012, 08:21 AM

Level a class you don't want to be should never be how a game should be.

are we even playing FFXI?
we can change jobs, store a bunch of gear, and keep our spells for memory with our characters.
sounds like you guys should quit ahead if you think you'll never have to jobchange, to accomplish something within the game.
there's another massively popular MMO where you don't have to/can't change jobs...you should try that one.

this thread is depressing.

Shadowsong

05-13-2012, 08:31 AM

Level a class you don't want to be should never be how a game should be.

Too bad? Do it, or stop complaining. They aren't going to change something just because it pleases you. High level mibs have been around what? Years? This is the first post I see of someone careing.

Iakothm

05-13-2012, 08:37 AM

Too bad? Do it, or stop complaining. They aren't going to change something just because it pleases you. High level mibs have been around what? Years? This is the first post I see of someone careing.

yeah i know the high level mobs have been around but they could be handled by a group of people in range of the quests. These monsters you HAVE TO get a 99 or level a whm or dnc.

are we even playing FFXI?
we can change jobs, store a bunch of gear, and keep our spells for memory with our characters.
sounds like you guys should quit ahead if you think you'll never have to jobchange, to accomplish something within the game.
there's another massively popular MMO where you don't have to/can't change jobs...you should try that one.

this thread is depressing.

There is no reason for a person who plays a melee class to need to level up whm nor would they have any spells. Infact the only reason i can think of for subbing whm would be if you want to solo the game. What is the point in that?

Shadowsong

05-13-2012, 11:55 AM

yeah i know the high level mobs have been around but they could be handled by a group of people in range of the quests. These monsters you HAVE TO get a 99 or level a whm or dnc.

Wrong, the mobs you are speakig of have been level raised for years now, and everyone but yourself seems to do fine. Do you find it that hard to avoid site aggro even without invis?

There is no reason for a person who plays a melee class to need to level up whm nor would they have any spells. Infact the only reason i can think of for subbing whm would be if you want to solo the game. What is the point in that?
The reason is so you can do your stupid little Windurst mission. You are only hurting yourself being so non-conformist, no one but you cares if you finish your missions, so the sob story isnt very effective.

Meyi

05-13-2012, 12:17 PM

Shadowsong, there's no reason to become offensive over this matter. It is true that the higher level monsters do pose a problem and make the mission much more problematic. The mission was initially designed to be completed by those levels, and therefore, a complaint against such strong difficulty is a legitimate one that Square Enix does need to address. There's nothing "stupid" about a Windurst Mission. And it's not a "sob" story to not want to level a job a player doesn't want to play.

That said, Iakothm, you're hurting yourself by not expanding your options. It's always a good idea to have different jobs leveled. Maybe not to the max level, maybe not even to the sub level, but enough to get what you need accomplished from it. White Mage may be useful for Sneak, Invis, and teleport spells. Black mage is useful for Warp when you don't want to change to a level 1 job and death warp. Thief is a good subjob for Treasure Hunter while farming. These jobs may not be jobs you want to level, but you will find the time spent invested in them will prove more beneficial than a loss.

And actually, now that I think about it, there was one mission I had to do that invis was required and timing of the door was very scary. It was the one down at the bottom of Castle Oztroja. Perhaps it's the Magicites? There were two yagudos who watched the door very carefully, and it was the one with the two torches. For some reason, touching those torches has always been incredibly challenging; it's as if you have to be in one exact pixel location to make it properly work. And even with other lower level friends, killing the yagudos was sometimes a bit of a challenge. Hmm...

Tsukino_Kaji

05-13-2012, 12:23 PM

Level a class you don't want to be should never be how a game should be.Seriously, the very foundation of this game is practically "level the jobs you have to so you can outfit the jobs you want to."

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-13-2012, 10:42 PM

And actually, now that I think about it, there was one mission I had to do that invis was required and timing of the door was very scary. It was the one down at the bottom of Castle Oztroja.

Target level ~40. A less-than-full party at that level can take them. And it's easier to find companions as that's a mission common to all nations.

"I did it that way" isn't the same as "the only way."

The only mission I've done that required sneak and invis was in ACP. And S-E is surprised nobody's bothered finishing that one...

Zerich

05-13-2012, 11:26 PM

Target level ~40. A less-than-full party at that level can take them. And it's easier to find companions as that's a mission common to all nations.

"I did it that way" isn't the same as "the only way."

The only mission I've done that required sneak and invis was in ACP. And S-E is surprised nobody's bothered finishing that one...

no one does those add-on's now, because their rewards aren't equal the time investment anymore.

people did them when they were new and relevant.

Ziyyigo-Tipyigo

05-13-2012, 11:41 PM

their rewards aren't equal the time investment anymore.

And gear is the only reason to do anything in XI.

Zerich

05-13-2012, 11:46 PM

And gear is the only reason to do anything in XI.

<Insert Endgame Event> says, "Hi!"

Fupafighter

05-14-2012, 12:13 AM

Seriously. Guy makes a thread saying shit aggroes on rank missions? Why are you doing rank missions w.o a 75 lol. 2nd. Prism powder/silent oil be invented. 3. Gil is easy to get. 4. News flash, most missions have aggroing mobs. 5. Go level a job and come back and solo it all instead of asking for people to do it for you. Shits not hard. My taru whm with no club or staff skill can solo up to rank 6 lol(just did it).

Catsby

05-14-2012, 01:09 AM

This is a bad thread. There is clearly a level flow problem in the game and everyone seems to think it's the player's fault.

Keyln

05-14-2012, 03:21 AM

Ugh...so much point missing in this thread.

The point here is that the early city missions are geared for people who are new to the game. These missions are the first real content people see. Greeting them with a level 85 monster that an alliance of 20's couldn't kill, it's not a good way of saying hi to them.

This is nothing more than poor planning and bad placement on SE's part, and it should be fixed.

Andreja

05-14-2012, 07:32 AM

no one does those add-on's now, because their rewards aren't equal the time investment anymore.

people did them when they were new and relevant.

Yeah noone does anything just for fun with friends, or for completionist's sake, anymore in XI. Thanks for enlightening me.

Logandor

05-14-2012, 01:09 PM

Hey now not all the add-on gear you can get at the finish line is crap. It's crap if you choose it to be. Like the pants you can add movement speed to them and hello that is a major help when you got competition on your butt when trying to out pop others for vnms in aby. >.> yes it is level 70+ gear but man stop and think about the people who actually still use that gear because some off the stuff you can put on it can out perform some of the emp gear if its not plus 2. As for the time investment the ls I am in took one week for each add-on and that was with us slacking. It could probably be done sooner then that now days. Just grab a beast master friend, pup, who ever wants to go and you will fly through them before you know it. Granted I would not deny probably back at level 75 people weren't happy with the gear. Then again some may have been. Mainly IN MY OPINION you should do the add-ons.

Any ways back to the OP topic: I still agree though they need to evaluate the placement of the higher level mobs. The tree was a great way they did it to be honest and if they could carry that same set up throughout the other areas it would make the missions easier for starting new players regardless of needing magic, items, ect. Also how they moved some of the artifact ??? in some places to accomidate the new mobs so why not they think about that in line of missions as well and notify us of the moves.

Yes I had said earlier that having sneak and invis to get around there is a good idea. I even agreed that the farming to get crafting skilled wasn't that hard to do even as a low level. To retouch on that note if there is something you need to help with your crafting there is bound to be a thief in whatever ls you join. Talk to them and become good buddies with them and work out some deals. They farm you the goods, you craft, you guys share the reward type is a good start on that note.