Sanus Ensis?

[Registeel]

I know it's been out for awhile now, and forgive me if it's been discussed already, but here goes:

Sanus Ensis (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Sanus_Ensis)

I'm seeing a few Almace BLUs wielding this for their offhand, though I've yet to be in a party/alliance with said BLUs. What I'm wondering is, is this a new superior offhand for an Almace BLU versus STR Shikargar?

Stat comparison-wise, we've got a 1 DMG difference (Shikargar being ahead), 002 delay difference (Sanus less), STR difference of 2 (Sanus ahead), and then the completely different bonuses. Shikargar offering Attack +22; Sanus offering MND+13, Cure Potency +13%, and potency of cure effect received +10%.

The cure potency effects are impressive, and of course the sword itself is very pretty to look at. But is this sword something worth going Voidwatch-loco over? I'd be interested to hear thoughts of the other BLUs here.

Forgive me for any glaring errors or mistakes I missed in my post.

[Dragonlord]

It has uses as a solo sword for sure. But for dmg it won't hold up against the str shikargar.

[Tashan]

You're completely right on every angle Madotsuki. STR Shikargar is still the best weapon for damage to off hand with an Almace.

People are just using it to show to others that they've gotten the weapon. However, it is at best a situational sword and players generally will do more harm than good to themselves by losing the Attack.

[saevel]

BLU would use it for the same reason RDM would, low man / solo fights. Cure Pot + and Cure received+ allowed you to not only heal others but yourself for a pretty substantial amount. It replaces the Galenous as a utility weapon. Decent DMG / Delay ration with both Damage and Healing stats.

For pure DD use the STR Shikagar, for dynamis and other small group things a cure sword goes a long way. Damage goes down, survivability goes up.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You don't need a cure pot offhand in Dynamis...

[Prothscar]

I don't really feel the need to expand any further than what Tashan's already said. It's useful for what he put in his post, nothing more.

[Llana_Virren]

You don't need a cure pot offhand in Dynamis...

He didn't say it was needed, he said that's how it could (and most likely) would be used by BLUs doing low-man Dynamis.

It's about saving time and keeping a steady pace, without going in there with a full envoy.

[Prothscar]

If you're for some reason looking at a defensive option in Dynamis, it should be an EVA Shikargar, not Sanus Ensis.

[saevel]

If you're for some reason looking at a defensive option in Dynamis, it should be an EVA Shikargar, not Sanus Ensis.

BLU's evade about the same as PLDs. Evasion works decently on EP's but absolute crap on DC's which is what we typically farm.

Out Dyna groups tend to be BLU/DNC + THF/DNC killing DC monsters with very little competition. Having done this extensively, healing counts and counts big. Maelstrom, Whirlpool, Frostbreath / Thunderbolt, Fungar breath move are all high damage moves and will kill you if your not careful. DC monsters are not like EP's, their much stronger and hit me for 100~150 each hit.

Not like you need maximum damage 100% of the time when your primary focus is to proc then kill. The minimal damage loss from using the cure swords off hand is a small price for the enhanced survivability.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Saying you have evasion the same as Pld shows you have no idea what you're doing or talking about.

[Arcon]

Saying you have evasion the same as Pld shows you have no idea what you're doing or talking about.

Except for the part where he's completely right.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Correction, base skill is the same correct, however Blu has no trouble getting a notable evasion rate on DCs in dynamis while maintaining a fair amount of haste, up to 25% (in shown gear, so slightly uncapped) in a perfect/near perfect set. Pld simply cannot do this unless you're going to suggest double evasion shikargar on Pld.

[Tashan]

Saeval's got it completely wrong, although I didn't choose to reply to that because it'd been the umpteenth time someone has had to disprove him.

Although for Arcon - You're mistaken.

Blue Mage has enough evasion options to warrant use against anything pre-voidwatch implementation that is worth evading. This was the case at LV90 let alone LV99. So much so that a player can even maintain a full haste build while equipping evasion equipment.

A hybrid evasion build should be something every Blue Mage should have in their arsenal.

For the situation mentioned (dynamis) the EVA shikargar beats Sanus Enis.

[saevel]

PLD: C, 373 evasion @99
BLU: C- 368 evasion @99

Honestly what's 5 skill difference.

And lol at wearing "evasion gear" to prevent using a cure sword that lowers your damage. Lets lower our damage to increase our survival rate (Evasion build) to prevent having to lower our damage to increase our teams survival rate (cure sword). Honestly slapping on a cure sword is far easier in the long run, plus it helps out others in your team.

And your not getting jack sh!t for evasion rate on DC's, I know cause I'm constantly farming them, every day almost. Next thing you'll say is that you get capped hit rate on DC crows without food (come on I dare you).

[Arcon]

Although for Arcon - You're mistaken.

I'm not. BLU and PLD evade about the same. That is as correct a statement as it gets when you're quantifier is "about the same". Just because you normally don't play PLD that way it doesn't change anything about that.

My problem is not with your reasoning but with Neisan's retarded argument: "Because you said something that is correct you're clearly a moron and have no idea what you're talking about."

[Neisan_Quetz]

Pld and Blu do not evade about the same- unless by 'about the same' you really mean 'around ~40 less evasion while keeping high haste if you're not using double AGI shikargar'. This is excluding drape, which I have found little need for in dynamis, or Barbed, which doesn't work. Nor am I using a full evasion set which saevel seems to think I'm implying, when I already outlined you can get a fair amount of evasion and still hit 25% haste. Pld simply cannot make a decent hybrid evasion set at all, and still falls short in a full evasion set on pld without double shikargar.

P.S. you're not the only one who farms DCs, so all I can say is uh... try harder? I parsed 77% evasion overall in a mediocre set on DCs the last few times I went on Blu, and my set is far from perfect.

[saevel]

Pld and Blu do not evade about the same- unless by 'about the same' you really mean 'around ~30 less evasion (conservative estimate) while keeping high haste if you're not using double AGI shikargar'.

P.S. you're not the only one who farms DCs, so all I can say is uh... try harder? I parsed 77% evasion overall in a mediocre set on DCs the I last few went on Blu, and my set is far from perfect.

And I'm now calling BS on your statement. You didn't hit 77% evasion unless your fighting EPs or including Occulation in a group where you don't get hate often. There is no "try" involved, 2 evasion = -1% hit rate for the enemy. Thing is ... enemy accuracy cap is 80%. Whether you have 0 evasion or enough evasion to give them 81% hit rate you still get the same 80%. Not only do you need to get enough evasion to be worthwhile, you also need to get enough to push it under the 80% cap. This is why PLD's gave up on "evasion" a long time ago, reducing their hit rate 20% doesn't mean anything when their at 130% to begin with (capped at 80%).

Going from the 80% cap to 23% (your 77% evasion rate) would require 114 evasion over the monsters accuracy. Players don't get LCF bonus nor do you have EB5. EB1 is only +10 and requires setting either SD or HB, though HB still isn't a bad spell just expensive set point wise. And that's all assuming every point of +evasion is actually being used vs going to pushing acc down past the cap.

And this entire debate was about whether your should lower your damage by using an offhand cure sword over the shikagar to enhance your own as well as your groups survivability / TP usage. Your now trying to say that you can get an evasion build that sacrifices your DD stats so that you can use a Shikagar off hand rather then a cure sword while your farm EPs.

[Neisan_Quetz]

... What? Just, what? do you read what you post sometimes? I don't even know where to begin...

[saevel]

... What? Just, what? do you read what you post sometimes? I don't even know where to begin...

Begin with you misreading your own information.


I parsed 77% evasion overall in a mediocre set on DCs the I last few went on Blu, and my set is far from perfect.

You didn't parse an evasion rate of 77% as a BLU vs Decent Challenge monsters inside dynamis. Vs EPs in an evasion set, possibly, vs DCs as a THF, most definitely, as a BLU, not a chance in hell. Simply put BLU's evasion skill is low enough that monsters can easily get over capped accuracy on you. In order for you to parse 23% monster accuracy (77% player evasion) you'd have to have evasion 104 over the monsters accuracy. Your saying you can get that quite easily while maintaining 25% haste and not crippling your damage? BS. Your fighting EPs.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It was DCs as I was parsing my gimp Dnc friend's accuracy/evasion as well, who was much lower due to lack of skill. Was Dynamis Bubu decent challenge Nightmare monsters, never touched the EPs and just to be sure, completely restarted parsing once TEs were dead just to be sure no EP kills were logged. Try again.

[saevel]

It was DCs as I was parsing my gimp Dnc friend's accuracy/evasion as well, who was much lower due to lack of skill. Was Dynamis Bubu decent challenge Nightmare monsters, never touched the EPs.

Nope.

EP's are levlel 80
DC's are level 97

Your not getting 23% monster accuracy, 104 evasion over their accuracy, to a level 97 monster on a job with C- in evasion. Even EBII from /DNC is only +22 evasion. Monsters have B (Mages) ~ A (Warrior and pretty much everything else) accuracy skill, the delta between their natural accuracy and your natural evasion is so big that you'd still need 100+ in +evasion to reach 23%. Are you wearing 100+ in evasion equipment?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Went back to check and I'll apologize as I was looking at the wrong info, it was 77% on crabs/mandies and around 60% vs ravens. All mobs were decent challenge versions, never touched the EPs.

[saevel]

Went back to check and I'll apologize as I was looking at the wrong info, it was 77% on crabs/mandies and around 60% vs ravens. All mobs were decent challenge versions, never touched the EPs.

I do lots of mandies, I know you didn't get a 23% monster accuracy rate on them. Something is wrong with your parser or it's counting blinked attacks as "miss's".

If you were doing the DC loop of crows -> mandies then did you run across the zone to the crabs or do the ones on the beach nearby?

Mandies are MNKs and have A+ skill for accuracy. Crabs are PLDs and have the same A+ skill. Birds are thieves and have A- skill. Evasion is nothing but accuracy in reverse, it's rather easy to figure out. 2 AGI = 1 evasion, 2 evasion = -1% to enemy accuracy. When evasion = enemy accuracy you will have a 25% evasion rate (monster 75% hit rate). You don't get LCF so there isn't any +4 evasion / level bonus.

Level 97 A accuracy 403 = 382.7 [382] accuracy
Level 99 C- evasion 368 = 351.2 [351] evasion
EBII +22 evasion

So naked your looking at 373 evasion vs 381 accuracy, or a 79% hit rate from the monster prior to AGI vs DEX. It takes 4 AGI over the monsters DEX to reduce it's hit rate by 1% and you have 56% worth of hit rate to go through. 56 * 2 = 112 worth of +evasion required.

And you want to say, with a straight face, that your wearing 25% haste while having that 100~112 worth of +evasion equipped and fighting these level 95~97 monsters.

[Neisan_Quetz]

And I'm lost again. I'll record the results next time I go if I care. I didn't have +112 evasion equipped because it wasn't necessary.

[saevel]

Already know whats happeing as I'm in dynamis right now. It's counting occulation as "miss's".

My 99 THF friend is at 77% evasion right now vs trees and now frogs which is basically capped evasion. Your not getting capped evasion as a BLU vs level 97 monsters.

Either your parsers dorked and counting blinks as miss's, or you were fighting EP's and now are holding down the fort.

[Prothscar]

Holy shit. Seeing people who don't know what the fuck pretend like they know what the fuck makes my brain hurt. How can you possibly play Blue Mage and not know that Evasion is easy as piss to cap for this job? It doesn't start falling off in effectiveness until you start fighting things well into the VT~IT range, and that's still dependent on the mob. A hybrid (hybrid, look up what the word means before making yourself look even more stupid) evasion set is more than sufficient for just about any dynamis, abyssea, limbus, or otherwise lower end content monster.

Also not sure if you realize, which you probably don't since you seem to have huge issues with basic game mechanics, but evasion caps at 80% for players as a monster's accuracy floors at 20%. If your THF friend isn't capable of capping evasion in dynamis, then they seriously need to consider their playstyle and gear.

Of course, I'm arguing with the guy who thinks using MP to heal in dynamis is the right thing to do, and that TP moves make any difference whatsoever on any monster that isn't "Impossible to gauge". For any competent blue mage, damage taken in dynamis shouldn't even become a factor.

[Economizer]

And you want to say, with a straight face, that your wearing 25% haste while having that 100~112 worth of +evasion equipped and fighting these level 95~97 monsters.

It is certainly possible. I'm not going to pretend I've got the most optimal set out of the listed gear here, nor that this is all the gear that exists (although it might be), but I'll piece one together from the listed gear as an example.

AGI/EVA/Haste Gear


Job Traits - /THF or /DNC Evasion Bonus II - Eva+22
Spell set Evasion Bonus I - Eva+10
Weapons - Shikargar - AGI+11 Eva+22
Ephemeron - AGI+15 Haste+3%
Ranged/Ammo - Aliyat Chakram - AGI+6 Eva+6
OR Hasty Pinion - Haste+1%
Head - Theia's Hairpin - AGI+6 Eva+9
OR Fugacity Beret - Eva +12
OR Denali Bonnet - AGI+4 Eva+3 Haste+4%
OR Zelus Tiara - Eva-5 Haste+8%
OR Oce. Headpiece +1 - AGI+13 Haste+7%
Neck - Torero Torque - Eva+9
OR Tiercel Necklace Haste+1%
Ear - Evader Earring +1 - Eva+8
Body - Athos Tabard - AGI+15 Eva+7
OR Thaumas Coat - Haste +4%
OR Tessera Saio - AGI+13 Haste+3%
Hands - Kacura Mittens +1 - AGI+5 Eva+12
OR Ocelot Gloves - AGI+8 Haste+3%
OR Thaumas Gloves - AGI+8 Haste+3%
OR Alucinor Mitts / Miodio Gloves - Haste+4%
Ring - Alert Ring - Eva+6
Heed Ring - Eva+3
Back - Boxer's Mantle - Eva+10
OR Fugacity Mantle - AGI+3 Eva+11
Waist - Scouter's Rope - AGI+4 Eva+10
OR Phasmida Belt - Eva+6 Haste+6%
OR Phos Belt +1 - Haste +8%
Leg - Kacura Subligar +1 - AGI+8 Eva+15
OR Ocelot Trouser's - Eva+10 Haste+4%
OR Thaumas Kecks - Haste+6%, AGI+9
Feet - Athos's Boots - AGI+10 Eva+5 Haste+3%


Example Capped Haste & 100+ Evasion Set (not the only possible combination)


Job Traits - Spell set Evasion Bonus I - Eva+10
Ranged/Ammo - Aliyat Chakram - AGI+6 Eva+6
Head - Oce. Headpiece +1 - AGI+13 Haste+7%
Neck - Torero Torque - Eva+9
Ear - Evader Earring +1 - Eva+8
Body - Thaumas Coat - Haste +4%
Hands - Kacura Mittens +1 - AGI+5 Eva+12
Ring - Alert Ring - Eva+6
Heed Ring - Eva+3
Back - Fugacity Mantle - AGI+3 Eva+11
Waist - Phos Belt +1 - Haste +8%
Leg - Ocelot Trouser's - Eva+10 Haste+4%
Feet - Athos's Boots - AGI+10 Eva+5 Haste+3%


Note that the above set, while probably not being the best possible combination (it is just an example), doesn't restrict your subjob, nor does it restrict your weapon choices, and it only takes minimal spell slots to get the trait (considering that an Evasion minded Blue Mage will already be setting Occultation, and it only takes an additional 3~5 more spell points to activate the trait). This set will get you capped Haste and ~106 Evasion (using combined +Eva and +AGI). You can either use /DNC or a weapon to knock it up a notch or to get this with some easier gear, particularly if you are in Dynamis where soloing harder mobs is likely.

[Dragonlord]

Well, i don't use blu for dynamis, but i do have an eva set for blu and have pup parse data from a DC mob run. First i'll work some numbers out.

Evasion formula = skill + eva + (agi/2) + trait

assuming agi = 100 for both
Blu evasion set = (200+(168*.9))+105+22+50 = 528.2

pup DD set = (200+(198*.9))+5+48+50 = 478.5

During that run, my pup parsed 63.5% evasion. And blu, in an evasion set with 1 evasion sword, has 50 more evasion than DD geared pup. Putting blu in that set, over the evasion cap for those DC mobs according to the 2 evasion = 1% dodge rate.


Thing is ... enemy accuracy cap is 80%.

In addition, hit rate cap is 95%, not 80%. Evasion rate cap is 80% which relates to a hit rate floor of 20%.

[Tashan]

I'm not. BLU and PLD evade about the same. That is as correct a statement as it gets when you're quantifier is "about the same". Just because you normally don't play PLD that way it doesn't change anything about that.


You are. I'm really not sure how you've come to this conclusion, but PLD does not have as many Evasion options as BLU.


And you want to say, with a straight face, that your wearing 25% haste while having that 100~112 worth of +evasion equipped and fighting these level 95~97 monsters.


AGI Shikargar = 27.5
Aliyat Chakram = 9
Oce Headpiece = 6.5
Torero Torque = 9
Brutal Earring
Suppanomimi
Athos's Tabard = 14.5
Thaumas Gloves = 4
Heed Ring = 3
Rajas Ring
Fugacity Mantle = 12.5
Phasmida Belt = 6
Thaumas Kecks = 4.5
Athos's Boots = 7.5

Haste = 25%
Evasion = 104

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/135519

All credit to Nightfyre.

---

What now Saeval.

[Prothscar]

Hybrid Evasion set (http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/226965)

Mavi Mintan +2 in exchange for Athos Tabard when MP is needed. You lose minimal damage effectiveness, especially for the defensive benefits of rarely ever taking damage. In any set you should be using a fire shikargar for dynamis anyway.

[Arcon]

You are. I'm really not sure how you've come to this conclusion, but PLD does not have as many Evasion options as BLU.

Just so you know, I hate people who won't take a hint. BLU and PLD evade about the same, that's a fact. I don't care how you gear BLU, or if it maintains DD capability while PLD doesn't if it gears for Evasion, who the fuck cares. I told you I wasn't interested in this discussion at all, I'm not even reading any of these posts. The fact is, you have to gear for Evasion and sacrifice other things for BLU to cap Evasion. Yes, you don't need to sacrifice nearly as much as on PLD, but again, I have no interest whatsoever in this discussion, I don't care how much you have to sacrifice or what trade-offs you have to consider and how it relates to whatever PLD has to do for it. The fact that you can't use a regular setup to just go in like you would on PLD as well and magically evade more somehow means that they evade about the same. Everything you do after that is just you setting an arbitrary line for which trade-offs are good and which aren't.

And again, just to be very clear, I'm not defending saevel or trying to disprove anyone or partake in this discussion whatsoever, my intelligence was just offended by Neisan's ridiculous statement. I only checked this thread because it had a cool looking sword's name in the title. If I knew this was a BLU discussion, I wouldn't have even opened it at all because there is no job in this or any game that I could possibly care less about.

[saevel]

Wow didn't know you could equip two back pieces at once. Glad to know BLU got that JT somewhere.

Golf Clap

Dude if you got


AGI Shikargar = 27.5
Aliyat Chakram = 9
Oce Headpiece = 6.5
Torero Torque = 9
Brutal Earring
Suppanomimi
Athos's Tabard = 14.5
Thaumas Gloves = 4
Heed Ring = 3
Rajas Ring
Fugacity Mantle = 12.5
Phasmida Belt = 6
Thaumas Kecks = 4.5
Athos's Boots = 7.5

Haste = 25%
Evasion = 104

More power to you. And I hope everyone realizes two of those items are Nyzule 100 drops, one is from Rex which I don't even see /sh's for anymore. Your also giving up tons of DD stats to .. not ... give up ... DD .. stats but still ... give .. up DD .. stats.

Plus somehow I ~HIGHLY~ doubt Neisan has anywhere near what has been posted so far. Seriously .. couple of Nyzule 100 drops, Phos Belt +1, double back mantles. In fact I'd wager gil that nobody who's posted so far has those sets and is just putting them together by searching FFXIAH.com for items with evasion on them. If you got two floor 100 drops already, or a Phos +1 belt, I think evasion in Dynamis is the least of your concerns. 104 was the off the cuff answer, 112 is the actual required amount to get what he said he parsed. So he would have to have MORE then what was stated on this page. Yeah ok.

And this is all to avoid having to use a Sword with Cure +13% STR +13 MND +13 Cure Received +10%. Funnry part is...

STR Shikagar
DMG: 61 Delay 230 STR +11 Attack +22 (27.5 attack)
Sanus
DMG:60 Delay 228 STR +13 MND +13 cure~yada (6.5 attack)
Difference is 21 attack.

Monster accuracy is capped at 80% for regular monsters and most older NMs. Same with their evasion. It's one of the few game mechanics in FFXI that actually favors the player.

And btw, my statement was

Your saying you can get that quite easily while maintaining 25% haste and not crippling your damage? BS. I didn't realize people would immediately jump to some of the rarest items available to try to build that set in some vain attempt at e-thuggery.

[Prothscar]

Ocelomeh headpiece, ocelot gloves and pants, athos boots, blithe mantle, phasmida belt, torero torque, and aliyat chakram are "some of the rarest items available"? What game are you playing? A standard BLU evasion set for the average BLU won't contain any Nyzul Floor 100 gear, and none should ever contain a phos belt +1. The set that I provided sits at 25% haste with a capped evade rate on several tiers of content where you'd want to have evasion gear on to begin with. On that same content, losing some multiattack and STR will be inconsequential, as your damage will be more heavily split between spells and melee damage. The decrease is there to be sure, however needlessly tossing Shikargar for Sanus Ensis, since the cure potency is absolutely unnecessary, is ridiculous. I don't know how I can get through to you any clearer than this.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Where are you getting this monster accuracy/evasion caps at 80% from? I don't think you're using the right term here.

[Prothscar]

Also, most (if not all) mobs cap at 95% evasion, and their accuracy floors at 20%.

Also worth noting that "I highly doubt any of the people posting here have this gear" is a fallacy. I have full Thaumas gear. I don't use the pants for evasion, however, only the gloves, and Ocelot hands are more than adequate for the role.

[saevel]

The one where your like to pretend to be a thug.

Those are easy items, but the entire set hinges around things like Athos Tabard / Nzule 100 drops / HQ synths and so forth. I mean you guys are really digging and tossing every stat other then Haste / Evasion / AGI. Which is kinda fun to watch, the sheer amount of anger and venom going into this, like it's become some sort of personal crusade. For something that is so unnecessary and niche. And everyone but me is actually serious. It's like being surrounded by LARPers and cracking a joke.

The operative words were "with a straight face".

Anywho NQ doesn't have that, heck I believe no one here has all that ~yet~. On his parse Occulation blinks were being counted as miss's, I know because it just happened to me. Fought a sheep, it swung at me and hit shadows then hit me once before turning to my THF counterpart. Parse showed me evading 6 attacks, I didn't evade 6 attacks. Continued the run, got ~350 currency and 36 touch's, split the loot and going to bed.

Ultimate point, Sanus has it's use's but isn't an all out DD weapon. It enhances BLU's healing potential which is considerable when properly geared. You won't be wearing it in Voidwatch or Legion, but might be using it when out with friends doing random stuff.

[Prothscar]

You don't need Athos Tabard or floor 100 gear for an evasion set, especially not for Dynamis. Try again sweetheart.

And again, I have it all besides the Phos Belt, which shouldn't be in an EVA set to begin with. Sanus Ensis is still worthless in Dynamis even if you refuse to believe that Evasion is easily cappable on these monsters, as cure potency should never be a factor in Dynamis. I don't know what you want me to tell you, but that's all I've got.

and if you really want to be difficult about it...

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7913/sdvabfdfd.png


I fail to see what floor 100 gear has to do with evasion sets for Dynamis, however.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I use Antares harness since I don't own Athos if I need evasion in the body slot, is that what you wanted to hear?

[Arcon]

I don't have to find where you were wrong, because anyone with two brain cells to rub together to make a spark will realize why you're completely incorrect.

Thanks for confirming my assumption.


Monster accuracy is capped at 80% for regular monsters and most older NMs. Same with their evasion. It's one of the few game mechanics in FFXI that actually favors the player.


Also, most (if not all) mobs cap at 95% evasion, and their accuracy floors at 20%.

Accuracy low caps at 20% and high caps at 95%, both for players and monsters. That implies Evasion low caps at 5% and high caps at 80% (also for both players and monsters). Here's to being constructive.

[Prothscar]

That would be constructive if it was right.

Monster Evasion Cap - 95%
Player Evasion Cap - 80%

Monster Accuracy Floor - 20%
Player Accuracy Floor - 5%

Feeding the troll etc. etc., but misinformation spreads quickly if it isn't nullified.

You're also still failing to realize why BLU is naturally ahead of PLD for evasion. They added these cool things called job traits in the last update, and some cool stuff called magic. They've also got this awesome new stat called AGI that happens to appear en masse in BLU's TP set.

[saevel]

Internet logic at it's greatest. This is getting fun.


You don't need Athos Tabard or floor 100 gear for an evasion set, especially not for Dynamis. Try again sweetheart.


Your saying you can get that quite easily while maintaining 25% haste and not crippling your damage? BS.

I never doubted that if a BLU put enough effort into it they could get high evasion. What I doubted was getting capped evasion on a level 97 monster while also having capped haste and not crippling your damage.

In order to accomplish that you must use the aforementioned items otherwise you end up giving up haste for evasion. Specifically the Athos / Nyzule 100 sets are whats' required. The feet are piss easy to get but the body is a nightmare. People are 0/200+ for a Toci's and you expect Athos body to be "easy"?

[Prothscar]

Ok, so you tell me then Saevel.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/226965

Swap Athos with Mavi, like you should be doing in Dynamis anyway, and like I said you should be doing in the first place, and tell me: what part of this set includes "some of the rarest items available"? And explain to me why this set wouldn't be capping evasion on Dynamis mobs, fodder, among the weakest monsters currently fought in any pseudo-endgame event. Also explain to me how much your damage is crippled from these gear swaps, in exact increments.

[saevel]

I use Antares harness since I don't own Athos if I need evasion in the body slot, is that what you wanted to hear?

It's not about nick picking sets and what have you. Your not getting 23% hit rate, using relatively easy to get pieces you can probably get 40~50%, maybe even ~35% while still keeping 25% haste but that's pushing it. This would require you gearing specifically for this and slowing down your kill rate, which results in longer kills and more swings at you. Kinda counter-productive, which is the point I was hoping people would realize halfway through their "most prove Saevel wrong at all costs" exercise. Giving up a little bit of offensive power for more utility is a handy trade off especially in the healing department. Using your TP for Healing Watz III is a prime example of this (only way your going to heal without M.fruit). Stripping down your gear sets just to fit a few more points of evasion is ridiculous, especially if the whole thing is just theoretical.

Really funny part is that I don't even try for evasion and me + THF friend pulled in 350/36 on DC's in valk. I didn't even have to resort to putting on the cure sword, things just died that fast that we were never in trouble. A few times of the Fungar's breath getting someone to ~300 HP, but that's solved instantly by M.fruit (me) + CWIII (THF). Although we've had a few bad moments in Tav involving bombs and leeches.

[saevel]

Ok, so you tell me then Saevel.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/226965

Swap Athos with Mavi, like you should be doing in Dynamis anyway, and like I said you should be doing in the first place, and tell me: what part of this set includes "some of the rarest items available"? And explain to me why this set wouldn't be capping evasion on Dynamis mobs, fodder, among the weakest monsters currently fought in any pseudo-endgame event. Also explain to me how much your damage is crippled from these gear swaps, in exact increments.

You'll figure it out eventually.

[Prothscar]

Sorry, the burden of proof lies on you not me. You're challenging what is considered to be normal conduct, and information that has been known about the game for years and years. Sets like mine, Neisan's, and Nightfyre's have been proven to work time and time again.

So no, sir, it's you that has to figure it out. I will not be accepting a cop-out response.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's not as huge of a loss in killspeed as you're trying to make it out to be, nor do you need to gear that is 'incredibly' hard to obtain except for a perfect set. The exception is phasmida belt and athos's boots, and that's if you're seriously screwed on drops (Belt is uncommon, Boots is supposed to be the rare drop but I've still seen far more of them than certain other rare drops).

[Prothscar]

The loss in killspeed is so minute that it isn't even noticeable unless you're doing dynamis horribly wrong tbh... I don't see how this is a factor in the discussion to begin with. You require only a basic concept of how the game works, and how to play blue mage, to realize why.

[Helel]

I can't believe people are even arguing about this. If you guys think proth is wrong then direct yourselves to the BG topic on blue mage please. I feel like there's a serious lack of reading comprehension and/or research going on here. If you guys seriously didn't know that a BLU evasion set was a possibility then you're behind quite a few months. Welcome to the present.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Just so you know, I hate people who won't take a hint. BLU and PLD evade about the same, that's a fact. I don't care how you gear BLU, or if it maintains DD capability while PLD doesn't if it gears for Evasion, who the fuck cares. I told you I wasn't interested in this discussion at all, I'm not even reading any of these posts. The fact is, you have to gear for Evasion and sacrifice other things for BLU to cap Evasion. Yes, you don't need to sacrifice nearly as much as on PLD, but again, I have no interest whatsoever in this discussion, I don't care how much you have to sacrifice or what trade-offs you have to consider and how it relates to whatever PLD has to do for it. The fact that you can't use a regular setup to just go in like you would on PLD as well and magically evade more somehow means that they evade about the same. Everything you do after that is just you setting an arbitrary line for which trade-offs are good and which aren't.

And again, just to be very clear, I'm not defending saevel or trying to disprove anyone or partake in this discussion whatsoever, my intelligence was just offended by Neisan's ridiculous statement. I only checked this thread because it had a cool looking sword's name in the title. If I knew this was a BLU discussion, I wouldn't have even opened it at all because there is no job in this or any game that I could possibly care less about.

So you came here, into the BLU forum for no other reason than to prove your ignorance, completely ignore the discussion at hand and are somehow offended by people proving your pitiful lack of intelligence wrong. You sir are the definition of a troll.

[Tashan]

Just so you know, I hate people who won't take a hint. BLU and PLD evade about the same, that's a fact. I don't care how you gear BLU, or if it maintains DD capability while PLD doesn't if it gears for Evasion, who the fuck cares. I told you I wasn't interested in this discussion at all, I'm not even reading any of these posts. The fact is, you have to gear for Evasion and sacrifice other things for BLU to cap Evasion. Yes, you don't need to sacrifice nearly as much as on PLD, but again, I have no interest whatsoever in this discussion, I don't care how much you have to sacrifice or what trade-offs you have to consider and how it relates to whatever PLD has to do for it. The fact that you can't use a regular setup to just go in like you would on PLD as well and magically evade more somehow means that they evade about the same. Everything you do after that is just you setting an arbitrary line for which trade-offs are good and which aren't.

And again, just to be very clear, I'm not defending saevel or trying to disprove anyone or partake in this discussion whatsoever, my intelligence was just offended by Neisan's ridiculous statement. I only checked this thread because it had a cool looking sword's name in the title.


Except, it doesn't mean they evade the same. Just because base skill is the same doesn't mean that is how they perform. By your logic, a COR and a DNC would be the same when it came to using a dagger.

Or a PLD would have a better job healing than RDM because they have better healing magic skill.

If I knew this was a BLU discussion, I wouldn't have even opened it at all because there is no job in this or any game that I could possibly care less about.
At least you've admitted you don't know what you're saying.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Drk is totally a nuker going by that logic, B elemental skill!

[Tashan]

"E-Thug".

I completely see what's going on with you now Saevel and although you probobaly won't take it on board I'm going to explain it.

What's wrong with you is not your motivation. Certainly not, because at the very least you show yourself to be a man who likes to perform their own analysis.

What wrong with you is not your understanding. Although its flawed, you're allowed to be. It isn't the end of the world if you get things wrong.

What's wrong with you is that you do not represent your personal persepective. Rather than state what your personal opinion is, you present it as fact and that is why we constantly have these disagreements with you.

If you came into this, or any threads for that matter and simply said I think; I believe; I came to the conclusion.... because.... , then noone would have any ground because you are entitled to have an opinion.

Share your opinion; but don't always take it to be fact.

----

I'll even start us off.

I think you're right in your view that the hybrid evasion set that I posted represents equipment which everyone won't currently have obtained.

It is my opinion that when speaking in facts, every possibility is considered, evaluated and nothing gets left ignored.

Would you like me to share with you my personal hybrid evasion set? I consider it to be more reflective of older gear because I don't play very often currently.

---

Edit: I'd just like to note that while we're on this tangent, the original debate is on the value of Sanus Ensis.

The fact that switching from a Shikargar to this weapon alone loses you 1 point Weapon Damage Rating and 20 DPS should suggest it's got to make up for lost ground too.

I also think you lose 1 point in Base Damage (D) by doing so too, but I am not completely sure of my calculations.

[Return1]

I think everyone's missing the picture here.

No one cares if the PLD evades like shit because PLDs are awesome and eat DC damage for lunch with riot shields and swords that look like chainsaws. SWORDS THAT LOOK LIKE CHAINSAWS GUYS.

HOLY SHIT

Would you mess with a guy who had a chainsaw!? No you wouldn't, you'd let him take your mom to a pleasant redlobster seafood buffet, bang her, and not even complain when HE DIDN'T EVEN CALL BACK is what you'd do.

PLDs are so AWESOME they're DARK like DRKS. WITH A CAPITAL ESS!

Spakeing of DRKS when are they going to get my idea of casting Ultima and adding the damage done by it to every hit of my next WS? I feel this is a good idea, because I just said it. But make it only castable when you have a scythe because I hate how GSes look and bandwagon DRKs (NO CAPITOL FOR LOOSERS!)

MY WHITE MAGE DUAL WIELDS DAGGERS
Your argument is invalid.

[Tashan]

I think everyone's missing the picture here.

No one cares if the PLD evades like shit because PLDs are awesome and eat DC damage for lunch with riot shields and swords that look like chainsaws. SWORDS THAT LOOK LIKE CHAINSAWS GUYS.

HOLY SHIT

Would you mess with a guy who had a chainsaw!? No you wouldn't, you'd let him take your mom to a pleasant redlobster seafood buffet, bang her, and not even complain when HE DIDN'T EVEN CALL BACK is what you'd do.

PLDs are so AWESOME they're DARK like DRKS. WITH A CAPITAL ESS!

Spakeing of DRKS when are they going to get my idea of casting Ultima and adding the damage done by it to every hit of my next WS? I feel this is a good idea, because I just said it. But make it only castable when you have a scythe because I hate how GSes look and bandwagon DRKs (NO CAPITOL FOR LOOSERS!)

MY WHITE MAGE DUAL WIELDS DAGGERS
Your argument is invalid.

+Applauds+

XD

[Dart]

what a train wreck of a thread.

continue on.

[SpankWustler]

I just have to say one thing.


In order to accomplish that you must use the aforementioned items otherwise you end up giving up haste for evasion. Specifically the Athos / Nyzule 100 sets are whats' required. The feet are piss easy to get but the body is a nightmare. People are 0/200+ for a Toci's and you expect Athos body to be "easy"?

Because the big blue sword in this thread's title just falls out of the sky and into somebody's moghouse, inflicting 18 moogle casualties a year. Cutest funerals ever! It is a drop in Voidwatch just like the Athos's items, and as a bonus, from a less accessible monster.

This topic, from post number one, has not been about equipment that grows on trees.

[Registeel]

My apologies; I did not intend for an eruption to occur from this thread.

Thank you Tashan, Prothscar, and other BLU contributors. My question was answered.

[Savlyn]

You didn't do anything, lol. This is what happens in 90% of threads on this forum. People are crazy (myself included).

[larrymc]

This may be a little off topic now, but a few pages into the thread there was a discussion of evasion on BLU in dynamis, but I didnt see anyone mention the most important thing when it comes to increasing your evasion against DC and EP mobs in dynamis: use of Signet. On the few occasions where I have forgotten to use Signet and forgotten my signet staff in dynamis I have noticed a significant difference in evasion rate - perhaps this is the effect people are seeing.

[Dragonlord]

Do signet bonuses apply to dynamis? I wouldn't think so since it isn't part of the conquest tally.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Conquest items do work there iirc same as sky and limbus. Other bonuses I don't recall offhand, it felt that way but Anectodatal evidence etc.

[larrymc]

Do signet bonuses apply to dynamis? I wouldn't think so since it isn't part of the conquest tally.

Yes Signet bonus do apply in dynamis. Its very easy to determine whether a signet bonus applies in an area: /heal while you have TP. If your TP does not drain to zero - you are under the effect of Signet. Just as a refresher on what Signet provides in dynamis (or any area where its active):

* Increased Healing HP
* No TP loss while resting
* Bonus experience earned in smaller parties
* Increased defense and evasion against attacks from your auto-attack target (if the enemy is even match or lower)

Doing dynamis without Signet makes the DC mobs feel like even match and EP mobs feel like DC.

[saevel]

This may be a little off topic now, but a few pages into the thread there was a discussion of evasion on BLU in dynamis, but I didnt see anyone mention the most important thing when it comes to increasing your evasion against DC and EP mobs in dynamis: use of Signet. On the few occasions where I have forgotten to use Signet and forgotten my signet staff in dynamis I have noticed a significant difference in evasion rate - perhaps this is the effect people are seeing.

Yep it does work inside and is something I had completely forgotten about when looking at effective evasion.

[Alistaire]

They really need to make a dislike option here, it's obvious from the massive likes on Proth and Neisan's posts and the lack thereof on Saeval and whoever else is agreeing with him that this is a fairly obviously won debate. Admit you lost and figure out why you haven't figured BLU out.

[Alistaire]

Do signet bonuses apply to dynamis? I wouldn't think so since it isn't part of the conquest tally.

Signet has at least one proven effect: you don't lose TP resting.

[scaevola]

So, could somebody save me the trouble of reading the rest of this and confirm whether or not Neisan ever figured out if his parsed evasion rate was being inflated by Occultation?

[Neisan_Quetz]

It wasn't being inflated by occult since I don't even set it (Zephyr is set but also not used).

Signet was active that's really it.

[Ophannus]

I wouldn't mind a BLU JA that enhances 'Blue Attack'. Since physical blue magic has an 'attack rating' based on skill (not talking about base damage) and it's relatively lowish probably around 450-500 for most BLUs since it's based on Blue Magic Skill and fSTR, it would be nice to get a JA to boost this. Most end game mobs have very high defense and melees with anything less than 900-1000 attack gets completely skewed damage. Needless to say our physical spells do trash damage to these mobs due to the fact that they have an attack power of 450-500 and the targets have 700-900+ defense.

SE has thrown BLU somewhat of a bone by giving some of our higher level spells a high attack power(Goblin Rush, QC and Amorphic do have an attack bonus of 25-35% which is totally awesome) but something like a 5minute recast 90 second duration buff that gives "physical blue magic attack bonus" +50% would be nice, this would boost our blue attack to around 700ish so we can maybe do 900-1k QC/Amorphic to higher end NMs at 99 instead of the pitful damage we do now.
An alternative would be to add an attack boost to Chain Affinity. Our spells do tremendous damage to mobs relatively lower in level, but as we get to fight tougher enemies, our physical spells wane.

As a side note have any BLUs tried using Heavy Strike as the new Cannonball? 300%, full st CA+Efflux+Sneak Attack on HNMs or new Odin for those 3800+ Heavy Strikes? Would be interesting to see if that would be something useful for us to do endgame.

[Babekeke]

As a side note have any BLUs tried using Heavy Strike as the new Cannonball? 300%, full st CA+Efflux+Sneak Attack on HNMs or new Odin for those 3800+ Heavy Strikes? Would be interesting to see if that would be something useful for us to do endgame.

Forgive me, but what does the bolded part mean? is it a typo, or does st mean something I've not heard of?

Also, after the proposed protect fix (protectra V possibly giving over 200 def), Cannonball could be the new Cannonball!

[Prothscar]

You'd be better off using a superior spell such as Benthic Typhoon in place of cannonball, however the situation in which subbing THF and Sneak Attacking something presents itself would be... never.

[Alistaire]

Forgive me, but what does the bolded part mean? is it a typo, or does st mean something I've not heard of?

Also, after the proposed protect fix (protectra V possibly giving over 200 def), Cannonball could be the new Cannonball!

I'm gonna guess he means "full TP", or maybe "full STR"?