[DEVXXXX]2012 Road map

[Nala]

I see a planed adjustment to ranged delay on the horizon, if any community rep sees this mind getting us more specific information as to what those adjustments entail?

[VZX]

Maybe it's a cut out or reduce the amount of overhead delay after shooting? Currently it's about 2.6~2.8s for any compound ranged weapon.
Probably making ammo delay relevant after that.

I'm excited over this change, as long as it's not a nerf.

[Nala]

im excited at the prospect, however as i said before my inner cynical nature leads me to dread a half baked attempt to "fix" ranged delay and do more harm then good, its rampantly apparent this dev team wouldn't get get the hint if every server and component that makes ffxi up hit them upside the head at 30mph.

sad part is i'm probably understating, they don't play the game, they don't understand it much less even understand how we play the game yet they want to make adjustments... anyways got a bit ranty there /rant off, i'm hoping for the best... expecting the worst however.

[Bulrogg]

I just hope SE doesn't narrow their sights and only draw a bead on RNG and COR as targets for Ranged Attack Delay adjustments. I would like to see Ninja and Throwing in the mix too. Sange should be instant like Quickdraw and not force a delay of the /ja and /ra.

--keeping my hopes up.

[Nala]

this is a ranger forum thread take your nin throwing bs to the ninja threads and honestly give it up.

back on topic i'm hoping for a plain removal of overhead delay, i see no reason that we should have to wait before executing the next ranged attack with as long as the delay is for role playing's sake you could say the reload/arrow drawing form the quiver happens during that long ass animation, hell revise the animation to include that action (not really cool as it may be, rather yall worked on important stuff)

would love to hear from the dev's as to their plan for adjusting delay, curious if any one else had some thoughts or suggestions as to what should be done, figure if we get a good conversation going on the matter perhaps they will take our suggestions on board... or at least respond.

[Bulrogg]

My apologies, I don't always make myself aware of the forum I am taken to when clicking on a topic from the 'New Post' page.

So because I'm also interested in the Ninja side of things I cannot be interested in Ranged Attack Delay adjustments?

At any rate.... I too am hoping to see some sort of adjusting to the amount of time it takes to reload and fire. I had an idea, I don't know if it's even doable. But what if you could select, as in toggle from left to right in the menu, to auto-attack with ranged. Perhaps while engaged, you could go to the ranged attack button, and toggle on auto-attack. This would automatically fire off your /ra with minimum delay. If this was a plausible idea, should there be a limit to the number of auto-attack ranged rounds? I only ask because I'm sure someone will bring up turning this on and going afk, but I wouldn't see a difference between that and engaging a mob then going to get a glass of water.

Just an idea.

...

I was thinking more about the delay after a ranged attack. I hope they can change something to allow the use of a WS once the hit lands. I'm not sure if they can but it doesn't make sense that we are forced a delay when we have the TP. Perhaps I'm over thinking it, but when meleeing a mob once you land the blow to have enough TP to WS you can fire it off unlike when the hit from a /ra lands. We don't have to wait for our swings/pokes/stabs/thwacks to end to WS, can they change it so we're not waiting on the delay of putting our guns back up so we can WS?

[Lokithor]

You don't even need auto attack. Just have it work so that when you RAtt, if not ready, it will happen automatically when the timer is up. This is the way they implemented all attacks in FFXIV including ranged.

[Bulrogg]

I was not aware of that function in FFXIV. Perhaps they will be porting that over too similar to the new UI stuff. From what I hear that too is XIV-esk. Being unfamiliar with XIV I was wondering is there a delay between the time you get TP from a RA before you can WS? Or is weapon skilling between XI and XIV like faerie apples and saruta oranges?

But yeah, that would be a pretty nifty re-work of ranged attacks. Still though, the almost three second delay after a ranged attack could use some thought.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I was not aware of that function in FFXIV. Perhaps they will be porting that over too similar to the new UI stuff. From what I hear that too is XIV-esk. Being unfamiliar with XIV I was wondering is there a delay between the time you get TP from a RA before you can WS? Or is weapon skilling between XI and XIV like faerie apples and saruta oranges?

But yeah, that would be a pretty nifty re-work of ranged attacks. Still though, the almost three second delay after a ranged attack could use some thought.

I don't know 3 seconds seems about fair considering you're using a bow, not just swinging a sword.

[Nala]

thats 3 second static delay added onto your weapon's natural delay -snapshot effects, and it needs to go.

[Bulrogg]

I don't know 3 seconds seems about fair considering you're using a bow, not just swinging a sword.

If I know I'm going to use my WS once the shot lands, I wouldn't put my gun away just to re-draw it. Wouldn't that be like disengaging the mob to re-engage and then WS? There should be a way, perhaps a stance to keep your Arms at the ready and in that stance the 3 second delay is reduced. Should the stance have a melee penalty like Velocity Shot? Also, I think it would need to be accessible /rng for COR and other ranged attack users. (SAM/rng THF/rng)

Just an idea.

[Lokithor]

It'd be great to have a stance where you don't melee at all and just keep your ranged weapon at the ready. You would be unable to melee but have the advantage of reduced delay on your ranged attacks. That's effectively what they do with Archers in FFXIV - ranged is their only physical attack and their bows are always drawn when engaged with the mob. The bows are also physically visible on an idle character, just like other weapons - no more pulling a huge bow out of your butt. Least ways that was the way when I was playing - I quit ages ago.

[Midorikaze]

I still pull a bow out of my butt when i ranged attack ^^; Also I stash potions/warp scrolls and somehow my polearm in there somewhere o.O;;;

Ouchie.

[Catsby]

Yeah that cooldown on ranged attacks is total bullshit. It would be nice if there was an option to toggle between manual and automatic fire as well.

[Nala]

Still waiting on a response community reps, this is a very near and dear issue to me and i want to know what the dev's vision is on these adjustments considering they rarely seem to get adjustments right these days.

Edit: Just to add some relevant conversation points, besides the delay adjustments anyway that you'd allow for ranged weapon skills without having to first engage? that or consider adding a ranged engaged state where your gun/bow/xbow remains drawn?

[Darwena]

It'd be great to have a stance where you don't melee at all and just keep your ranged weapon at the ready. You would be unable to melee but have the advantage of reduced delay on your ranged attacks. That's effectively what they do with Archers in FFXIV - ranged is their only physical attack and their bows are always drawn when engaged with the mob. The bows are also physically visible on an idle character, just like other weapons - no more pulling a huge bow out of your butt. Least ways that was the way when I was playing - I quit ages ago.

I agree with that.

[Nala]

hmmm had an interesting thought that could have general strategic implications, basically what if they enabled weapon skills without engaging for all jobs, could end up saving lives on harder VW mobs when half the alli is dead, DD's could hit and run without the animation lock when running up, as a bonus rangers would have no real need to engage anymore as well.

wonder if i should start a new thread for that idea specifically any thoughts on that matter, also still waiting dev team.

[Nala]

/sigh i know rng has lost its place in the game due to mechanics working in favor for haste stacked jobs but i was hoping for more discussion on the matter or at least a Dev responce considering its in the road map, i'd like to be able to help direct the vision for these adjustments before they get put live on the test server since the Dev team cant be trusted to get it right.

in short half ranting and half bumping. come on COMREP's throw rangers a bone on this.

be nice if they revamped snapshot, gave it more potency, added more snapshot gear, removed the delay between readying shots, added an auto ranged ability/stance or all the above.

[Feliciaa]

I wish someone could explain why SnapShot and Haste/march songs were made into different categories instead of just making Haste/march give Snapshot effect. As the current system means gear has to be centered around being just for RNG instead of having general good mods like melee can with +haste.

Sadly, I don't think there will ever be an auto ranged attack but I do agree that the best way to fix ranged attacks would be to enhance the potency and remove the delay after firing a shot.

[Nala]

Eh basically its part of the whole balance vision for 11, ranged attacks are unaffected by slow/haste effects or weakness (save for being useless double weak) that's why snapshot got its own category, mind you there is a corsair roll that gives snapshot but given how Cor functions with giving buffs you'd need a whole ranged party for it to be worthwhile otherwise it's just more undue stress on the cor to get more rolls on.

wonder if i should just bump this thread every 3 days till it gets attention... then again i think posting for the pure purpose of bumping is against the forums eula but seriously want to know about this especially after i put together an annihilator i want to know the dev team isnt going to screw up ranger any more then they have.

[Nala]

Camate throw us a bone please?

[Nala]

So yeah official responce on this during vanafest, reduction of the static (post shot delay) of at least 50% is what they announced jic you wern't tuning in.

[Bulrogg]

Pretty exciting news. :)

[SpankWustler]

Is there something more specific than "Ranged attack delay will be cut in half" (http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=29967) anywhere?

At first glance, that sounds really clearly clear and really super super-duper, but I have complete faith in the Development Bros' ability to take an unexplained thing that sounds super-duper awesome and clarify that thing. Clarify that the thing is actually a giant praying mantis made out of still-living human skin stretched over red-hot cast iron, powered by mental imagery conjured by blind children imagining what "cancer" looks like.

[Bulrogg]

There were other ranged things mentioned but not for Ranger so I wont bring it up here. <.<

Other than that we'll have to see what the 50% reduction leads to come autumn.

[Nala]

The way rep team phrased it specifically in the live feed was that the post shot delay aka the delay between finishing a shot and being able to draw your weapon being halved not actual range delay halved.

Though if what the recap site says in plain text is accurate that's actually a bit more exciting, however that means ranged weapons would be 3.66x as fast as regular considering the ranged delay formula is already delay/110 vice 60, well would be 3.66x as fast but the static delay between shots messes that up.

In any case camate this needs clarification coooommmmeeee on man.

[SpankWustler]

The way rep team phrased it specifically in the live feed was that the post shot delay aka the delay between finishing a shot and being able to draw your weapon being halved not actual range delay halved.

Thanks for posting this!

The delay literally being halved was a very scary alternate reading, and I assume I'm not the only one who immediately thought it was very possible. Just hearing that the post-shot delay was mentioned specifically is awesome news to me.

[Nala]

Heh the exact phrasing from the live feed was at least half, though not as exciting as doubling ranged attack speed any decrease to the static delay greatly enhances snapshots total effect.

[Nala]

So i was bored and decided to do some math, was slightly supprised, i've never took the time to check into how much total snapshot effect i actually had Velocity shot + Sylvan caban (20%) Merits (10%) Slyvan gapette (5%) Blood finger gauntlets (w/+4 assuming this is 4%) impulse belt (3%) for a total of 42% ranged delay reduction.

I use an annihilator so my delay is 582/110 =~ 5.29 * .58 = 3.06 now adding in static delay which is aprox 2.9 - 3 seconds 5.96 - 6.06, static delay increases total delay by anywhere from 94.77% - 98.4% so yeah any adjustment to this would have a huge impact on my total delay.

Lets see compared to my samurai 423/60 (masa with sword strap) 7.05 (caped gear haste + hasso 38%) * .62 = 4.37 kind of sad considering this doesn't even account what ever other haste buffs the sam may be getting with just caped gear and hasso a samurai is already attacking 28% faster.