[dev1109] Job Adjustments: Summoner

[Genoxd]

Elemental Spirit adjustments

* The following Tier V spells will be unlocked:
o Fire Spirit: Fire V (Lv.86)
o Ice Spirit: Blizzard V (Lv.89)
o Air Spirit: Aero V (Lv.83)
o Earth Spirit: Stone V (Lv.77)
o Thunder Spirit: Thunder V (Lv.92)
o Water Spirit: Water V (Lv.80)
o Light Spirit: Protect V / Shell V (Lv.76)


OK..cool now can you give spirits some bonus MAB and M.ACC and remove all Tier 1-4 and AM spells and the crap like choke/shock/dia/ect. Maybe give Dark Spirit Comet so it can actually do some damage. There is no reason a Earth Spirit should cast Quake or Rasp over Stone V anymore. Would also be nice if Light Spirit prioritized Cure V, Curaga IV, Protect V, and Shell V. Regen and Haste are worthless when SMN has Hastega and Regen is crap (we also have SJ and carbuncle's favor if we really need it for some reason)

I probably shouldn't point this out, but you do know that Light Spirit can cast Banish IV and WHM can't right? You at least put enough effort into SMN to know that right..?

Do all this and I would probably use them for more then Elemental Siphon.
It'd at least be fun for solo situations.

Below this line is mostly complaints.

You have to realize how pathetically weak and stupid spirits are, and before you say AI is based on SMN skill vs monster level please realize that there is no reason a level 99 spirit should cast choke on a level 50 monster when it could use a a damaging spell. Given that, no spirit has any chance of landing choke on any level 99+ NM.

It's really sad to see how much work went into PUP and how many fixes and adjustments they've had and how much damage their automatons can do. While the AI isn't perfect at least some effort seems to have been put in.

I'm also quite disappointed that from levels 75 through 99 we only got three new damaging attacks that are significantly weaker then what we had before. The BP: Wards were great, but the BP: Rages sucked. I was really expecting/hoping for a new tier of physical attacks at 99.

In regards to the future Cait Sith: Just make him level 99 so there's no "balance issues" and have him focus on damage, we have enough support crap.

I wont even get started on amazing amount of SMN glitches that cause us to die or stop us from doing our job /rant off

[Luvbunny]

Come back in 2 years when they finally get to adjust SMN. It is sad indeed. And baffling. I mean, they CAN and ABLE to do great improvements to PUP AI, and did amazing adjustment to DRG. They even did good with BST jug pets until someone there woke up and realize how amazing the jug pets were and decided that is not going to happen again ever. But yet they are unable to do anything remotely worth the effort for SMN, their TOKEN jobs of all FF series. You would think that SMN would get top billing and top priority since its an iconic job of FF. It has been 10 YEARS of disappointing adjustment and minor tweaks!!! They better have a BIG announcement this summer.

[Alhanelem]

IMO spirits should just be removed from the game. They can not serve any valuable purpose beyond what we already use them for without overshadowing avatars, which are what summoner is really about.

If spirits did better damage than avatars, then they'd always be used and you'd never use an avatar except for the occasional Ward.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

IMO spirits should just be removed from the game. They can not serve any valuable purpose beyond what we already use them for without overshadowing avatars, which are what summoner is really about.

If spirits did better damage than avatars, then they'd always be used and you'd never use an avatar except for the occasional Ward.Don't forget sac'ing them for MP.

[Duelle]

IMO spirits should just be removed from the game. They can not serve any valuable purpose beyond what we already use them for without overshadowing avatars, which are what summoner is really about.

If spirits did better damage than avatars, then they'd always be used and you'd never use an avatar except for the occasional Ward.Agreed. Personally, I would change spirits so that they're untargettable secondary pets that grant the SMN access to their spells at an increased MP cost with damage and potency scaling with Summoning Magic Skill. That way SMN has something to do between blood pacts.

[Tile]

Spirits when engaged should stay at max distance from the mob, and use their stongest spells. if the mob move into melee range then they should melee back. that way say in VW or Legion, you could bring out a Spirit and they could do damage and stay out of AoE range.

Kinda of annoying that my avatar can get one-shotted during VW right before it gets the Proc off, but since i already gave it the order i have to wait for the cool down timer on Rage.

spirits just are not worth it as they are, maybe if we could have 2-3 out at once, Dont think that would be over powered at all since we can't tell them what to do anyways. hell I remember back at 75 cap the only way i could get my Spirit to cast AM (or anything other then a DoT) was to use astral flow.

atleast give us some gear that "Enhances Spirits" giving them some fast cast/MAB and makes them focus on only big spells

Also Cait Sith should have Regain (3-4 tic atleast) as Avatar's favor when it finally gets added, anything else would be an issult and spitting on Smns

[Krashport]

How about giving Spirit favor's. What comes to mind...
Occasionally absorbs damage taken from said element, with said Spirit out.
Ice Spirit:
Fire Spirit:
Thunder Spirit:
Earth Spirit:
Air Spirit:
Water Spirit:
Light Spirit:
Dark Spirit:

[Tile]

How about giving Spirit favor's. What comes to mind...
Occasionally absorbs damage taken from said element, with said Spirit out.

That or boost the Affinity for that element, for good Deal of Macc. MAB and Resistance. I always get put in the Mage party in VWNW anyways. should be able to do something usefull until a Smn proc comes up

[Alhanelem]

I don't really understand why some people care so much about the spirits. Nobody has the same level of caring for most of the other useless spells/abilities in the game. When was the last time you cast Goblin Gavotte? Flying Hip Press? Scop's Operetta?

But no one begs for these t hings to become useful.

[Zuidar]

Speaking of Cait Sith, was there any news regarding the ability to summon her or Atomos?

[Alhanelem]

Speaking of Cait Sith, was there any news regarding the ability to summon her or Atomos?
No. The only thing we know about them is Cait Sith will be a normal summon and Atomos will be a 2-hour summon like Odin or Alexander.

[Duelle]

I don't really understand why some people care so much about the spirits. Nobody has the same level of caring for most of the other useless spells/abilities in the game. When was the last time you cast Goblin Gavotte? Flying Hip Press? Scop's Operetta?

But no one begs for these things to become useful.It still crosses that line between flavor and clutter. It's not exactly smart to design a job with a notable part of it's spellbook being pretty much useless between nerfs and the creators being too damn lazy to fix things.

[Jerbob]

I think we have to be careful suggesting anything that involves Avatar's Favour. A regain or powerful elemental magic evasion aura would be nice in theory but the mechanics behind Avatar's Favour are so intrinsically soul-wrenchingly awful that we're just making the job more boring for ourselves in the process. If it's beneficial for the aura to remain at full strength (which for a good effect it certainly would be) then, as summoners, we've just put ourselves into a position where we're not able to use blood pacts any more, to say nothing of the attack penalties. "AFK with Diabolos" is an abhorrent concept and I really don't want to see it getting more prevalant. :(

I do however like the idea of having a spirit as an "auxiliary" pet alongside an avatar; it definitely has merit, especially if you put new systems in place to make having that spirit out more interesting and, dare I say it, balanced. As I recall, Alhanelem has often said that it'd be a mistake to take the focus off avatars for summoners, which is something I can definitely appreciate, and a new system along these lines would work to that effect. I've cobbled together my own ideas for systems of this type in the past but, given the current climate with the developers, there never seems any point in making suggestions.

[Tile]

I do however like the idea of having a spirit as an "auxiliary" pet alongside an avatar; it definitely has merit

I'm reminded of Waking the Beasts.

[Rezeak]

light sprit is still useful

if you can't see how having access to shell IV/V isn't useful when soloing please don't reply

outside that

Cast light spirit Convert Light spirit casts Cure V/Aga IV = back in the game

tho i wished they would remove Regen 1!!!! and haste from light spirit it's annoying

[RAIST]

tho i wished they would remove Regen 1!!!! and haste from light spirit it's annoying

If you already have the buff, it won't cast them on you and goes straight to Prot/Shell (in case you didn't know already).

[Rezeak]

yea when i'm solo i guess it isn't much of a issue but say for exaple my ally is wipeing/recovering i have the light spirit out while i cure and shell V or cures would be awsome at this stage but light spirit is like Regen > Regen > Haste (Trolol)

either way it's still pretty useful just would be more relible if it wasn't for haste(wind spell) and regen 1! (if it was regen IV i wouldn't mind as much)

Anther trick is that the spirit will only cast on the people it is faceing

[Alhanelem]

It's not exactly smart to design a job with a notable part of it's spellbook being pretty much useless Less than 50% of summoner's "spellbook" falls in this category. I'd say about 80% of bard songs are useless.

Yes, some avatars are more useful than others, but they are all functional in some respect.

[Luvbunny]

When they finally figure out how to make Atomos to not look like a giant A-hole, then we may be able to summon the new avatars. In the meantime, they are still having tons of meetings to figure out how big or how small or how puckered up the size is. Oh and probably also trying to solve problems on how many meows Caith Sith will wail before it starts attacking and scratching the enemies to shreds... I tell you, big decisions have to be ruminated among the team members.