Back in the good ole days

[Castor982]

I'm kinda curious how other players would feel about SE creating a "retro server". Take us back to WotG, before all of the mini-sodes and Abbysea. Level cap back to 75. When it took skill and patience to achieve your goals. Just let me know what you think.

[Urteil]

I dunno. Someone that's stuck at level 91 WHM in this current day and age probably wouldn't cut it in:

THE OLD DAYS WHERE WE HAD TO WALK UPHILL BOTH WAYS IN DOUBLE FIRE WEATHER TO CAMP AN' WE WERE HAPPY TO GET 2K/HOUR.

Land.



.02's.

[cidbahamut]

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/239-oh-look-its-this-thread-again.jpg

[Rezeak]

Are we talk before SE added dezoning to mobs cause if so i'll see you there as a 75 BST >.0

[Mifaco]

Please return to the days where 6 people were absolutely required for a PT.
Please return to the days where a BRD or RDM was needed for any chance at decent XP
Please return to the days where said BRD or RDM was flagged as "JP ONLY"
Please return to the days where after hiking up to golems in Sky, the tank/rdm/healer said "lol gtg" and left.
Please return to the days where your skillchain partner was so gimped, it took 3 fights for him to get to 100% TP...and then he missed the opening WS
Please return to the days where, even when people had 60 levels to learn their job, they still didn't have proper equipment,food, or weapon skilled up..
Please return to the days where so many people were camped at a location, the party had to disband after 3 fights.

[Karbuncle]

Have to assume the OP is a troll because he said it took Skill and Patience to play FFXI.

[Luvbunny]

The old days are gone, the old days are DEAD, stop living in the past and embrace the future. The funny thing is... for all of those people who are stuck in the past, the old ways are still here, use your brain please. You want 6 man party? Go level synch, now you have TONS of options where to camp, and GOV + double exp give you most bang for your bucks, not to mention COMPLETELY DEAD old camp ground where you no longer have to compete for mob. Now your problem is finding 5 other people that want to do what exactly that, let's face it, the old days are dead.

[Meyi]

Before WotG? Too modern.

Make a server pre-ToAU and you have yourself a deal.

[Luvbunny]

Before WotG? Too modern.

Make a server pre-ToAU and you have yourself a deal.

You are way too kind sir, make it so that it is on 2004 Original FFXI + Rise of the Zilart - this way they really get a good dose of nostalgia and have to climb all the way to sky if they ever want to do merit. Which means - there won't be any of the new jobs such as dancer, scholar, corsair, puppet master and blue mage. So yeah, warrior, bard, red mage, dark knight, black mage, monk for burn party - every other jobs can just go sulk and flag for 6-8 hours with no invite. Also no level synch, no ground of valor of any kind, and good luck trying to find players within 1-3 levels difference. These crazy nostalgics never realize how bad this game was when it first came in 2002.

[Camiie]

Can't you hardcore wannabes just play Everquest instead? Even at its hardest FFXI was just EQ-Lite anyway.

That's what I don't get. People think they're hardcore badasses for playing FFXI when it was "hard," but it was never the most hardcore MMO. I'll grant you it was one of the of the more tedious and grindy MMOs to not hail from Korea, but never the hardest.

[Dragoy]

I seem to remember them saying no to this although it might be a figment of a memory from another game.

Either way, I wouldn't against it, if they had the want to do it.

I would probably not play there, even though I did enjoy the old way of partying a lot more (though one could probably count the times I was in an EXP party with two or few hands, as I always did things more solo, or as a duo, trio, or quattro even).

That said, there's much that has been improved upon since those times, that I would not want to be reverted.

[Teraniku]

There are things I miss about old School FFXI, But then I wake up and realize it's a lot better now than it was then, except for no new Expansions, and Random Number Generator Endgame...

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Make a server pre-ToAU and you have yourself a deal.

Why not just uninstall WotG and ToAU yourself? Heck, PC gamers don't even need to have RotZ installed.

Or is it that you don't want anybody else around you to have "new" toys, either? Because I think y'all will be hard-pressed to find volunteers.

[Hayward]

Point #1: Drugs are bad for you.

Point #2: I started this game in '04. Anyone who agrees with this either hasn't played this game from the original/RoZ/CoP days or they're PC-addled hotshots who only want to brag about how oh-so "l33t" they are (while typing in their parents' basements/attics). Anyone who's been there from the start wouldn't go back if they were offered free play forever.

[Septimus]

Why not just uninstall WotG and ToAU yourself? Heck, PC gamers don't even need to have RotZ installed.

Or is it that you don't want anybody else around you to have "new" toys, either? Because I think y'all will be hard-pressed to find volunteers.

You missed his point entirely.

Old-school isn't colibri-burns, old-school is 3k per hour crab parties. Old-school isn't Campaign, old-school is Expeditionary Force. Old-school isn't Alexander and Odin, old-school is Fenrir.

His point is that you would be hard-pressed to find people who would want to go to a true old-school server because of those "new" toys. I played FFXI back in the old-school days, I never want to go back to that.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Point #1: Drugs are bad for you.

Point #2: I started this game in '04. Anyone who agrees with this either hasn't played this game from the original/RoZ/CoP days or they're PC-addled hotshots who only want to brag about how oh-so "l33t" they are (while typing in their parents' basements/attics). Anyone who's been there from the start wouldn't go back if they were offered free play forever.Point #3: It was '02. Hence that whole 10 year aniversary thing.

[Septimus]

Point #3: It was '02. Hence that whole 10 year aniversary thing.

North American PS2 release was March 2004. Barring a few importers (I know of none that play anymore), no NAs were playing before NA PC release which was October 2003.

[Nala]

eh best friend in high school was fluent in japanese, imported 11 and had me playing on his account for a while, i didn't start seriously till na ps2 launch though.

[Dazusu]

I'm kinda curious how other players would feel about SE creating a "retro server".

The forumer's here don't like anything from the old days. Don't mention those days, you'll be banished.

I'm down for it - though some modern day conveniences would need to be kept.. I'm not completely delusional you know! ;-)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The forumer's here don't like anything from the old days.Are you kidding? I miss overlapping damage every day. People exiting kazham only to die on their chocobo before the zone could even load was the best thing ever.

[Kieron]

No one can miss taking 1 year(s)+ of scheduled events just to get a black & crimson-colored hat with a feather on it. If you do in fact miss such torture, I feel sorry for you.

[Luvbunny]

Are you kidding? I miss overlapping damage every day. People exiting kazham only to die on their chocobo before the zone could even load was the best thing ever.

Or the days of beast master MPK with linking mobs, the train of mobs that end up murdering everyone near zone exit, the fact that you have to spend a good 1-2 hours making party, 30-40 mnts to get to camp and to disband within 30 mnts or even on the way to camp when your rdm, bard, whm, pld or ninja got murdered cuz forgot to use sneak invisible... So many good old days crap that literally will make you quit ASAP.

[hiko]

No one can miss taking 1 year(s)+ of scheduled events just to get a black & crimson-colored hat with a feather on it. If you do in fact miss such torture, I feel sorry for you.
I'd rather spend 3h every 3day doing scheduled event than spend 1h/day in jeuno /shouting without getting enough people to do anything before i have to log off some days

[Winrie]

At least back in the day there was actually things to do, not stand around do overplayed empryean weapons, solo dynamis or shout hunt for voidwatch for crap. Old days yes please.

[Nala]

right because having a large linkshell make a relic for you and then stealing the bank, getting your close in game friends all the gear first under the old big linkshell system, 21-24h world spawns with a once a week king spawn would blow over real well with every one that isn't in high school still (read the entire player base now a days), having to solo any job that wasn't "optimal" for exp parties (looking at you blm), linkshell to linkshell griefing tactics for hnms like serket or nihd, remember pre block aid? cure spam the tank to get them to turn and spike flail the alliance.

yall need to get over yourselves, there were aspects of the old that were kind of fun but ultimately the game we have now is better, the dev team just needs to pull thier heads out of their asses where endgame is concerned.

[Dazusu]

having to solo any job that wasn't "optimal" for exp parties (looking at you blm)

Black Mage for the longest time was optimal and necessary for EXP parties.


but ultimately the game we have now is better

As for the rest of your post, sucks you had sucky Linkshells that required hours like a day job. Not all of them were like that. (Not all of them were corrupt either) - I agree with you to a point though, a lot has improved (the reduction of 'grind' and the almost removal of the 'claim system' for end-game content) - but the sad thing is that a lot of what made the game has also gone. Including the majority of the community which incidentally happened since we got this "better game". Go figure.

But yet again these angry (delicious I might add) replies prove that people who don't share your opinion will also oppose your opinion - just because they're always right and can't comprehend that not everyone enjoys the same thing as them.

[Camiie]

At least back in the day there was actually things to do, not stand around do overplayed empryean weapons, solo dynamis or shout hunt for voidwatch for crap. Old days yes please.

If you don't like standing around then I don't see how the old days were so appealing for you.

[hiko]

If you don't like standing around then I don't see how the old days were so appealing for you.

because old days was only camping kings?

[Sparthos]

People still snorting cocaine and reminiscing about 'good old days' that are nothing more than the figments of the imagination?

Old XI was terrible outside a handful of things that sadly ran their course like Nyzul, Salvage, Besieged and some lowbie EXP. Missions were also awesome but most people never did them so it's not like anything has changed on that front.

[Luvbunny]

What is gone is the sense of hopelessness without the help of a large linkshell, and the sense of dependency to others to do almost every single thing in the game. GOOD RIDDANCE!! Except a few events such as Legion and Voidwatch, which can also be done as pick up groups, we now liberated from the shackle of always needing tons of people to get things done. All you need is a solid group of friends 2-8 would works fine. Now you have tons of options to do with small groups (even duo or solo + alts), abyssea made a measured progression a nice possibility. New dyna lets you do your own farming without the need of large LS. Everything is great now, all they have to do is to adjust these new events and use abyssea as bench mark for future contents and get rid of the 0.1% low drop rate and crazy grind of magian weapon trials past level 90. And doing some jobs balancing, tweaking existing content so it feels a lot less of a grind, and focusing in creating fun, accessible, enjoyable and addictive content. The old days are dead for a good reasons, and for the small minority, the options to "go back to the old days" are still there, you just have to find others who also wish to go back and re-create that dynamic.

[Arbole]

Hmm. People would still complain on the forums that the "Airship" fight is too hard and needs to be adjusted. They'd still complain about level capped BCNMs. They'd still complain about HNM. They'd still complain about greedy sky/sea shells gearing the leaders. People would still complain that AV is too tough.

[Camiie]

because old days was only camping kings?

Nah, but the other stuff was a bunch of waiting too. You never had to wait for someone killing Kirin or JOL? You never had to wait because your scheduled Dynamis zone was jacked? You never had to wait behind someone taking their sweet, sweet time in Limbus? You never had to wait in line at some battlefield entrance? You're luckier than I am then. Bad game design forced me to wait all the time back then.

At least these days the waits are usually much shorter and you can often cooperate with fellow campers. You sure as heck couldn't do that back in the day. Everything was a limited resource to be fought over, and everything took so long to pop or farm you didn't want to have any more time wasted. Your only friends were in your own LS or those who didn't do the same events as you. Otherwise it was war. You didn't talk to or have dealings with those other groups. If you didn't have them /blisted you'd get screwed over. Yeah, man, good times! It's funny to find out later that many of those people you thought were the scum of the earth weren't really so bad. You missed out on being good friends with some good people because the wonderful content of ye goode olde days set you against each other like starving dogs. Woo boy yeah that's sure building a friendly community there isn't it?

[Luvbunny]

Agree, the new game style encourage more co-operation with random strangers since everything is in abundance, and working together toward the same goal cuts down the "waiting game". Everything is faster, easier, and more fun by working together now. Glad they at least see this part and revamp the game and get rid of the old days, let's hope they see the light and make tweaks to voidwatch, neo nyzul and legion and promote working together with random strangers.

[Nala]

Black Mage for the longest time was optimal and necessary for EXP parties.

OP wanted a pre WoTG aka ToAU server, meaning colibri onry = FU BLM


As for the rest of your post, sucks you had sucky Linkshells that required hours like a day job.

As far as HNM's concerned didnt matter your shell didnt have a choice otherwise you'd miss hq spawns, and i never was in one of those sucky shells, but i knew of enough of them where leader "quit" after finishing their relic, or would run off with the bank was pretty common on fairy in any case.

I do personally miss the way the game used to be in terms of community but i personally lack that sense due to my old friends moving on more then anything, though lack of content that forces 18 man content shells also helped with that even if it was an artificial cock block style of cohesion (looking at you relics/mythics, D.ring ect.)

[Ravencrest]

A person can never recapture the past, which is all this desire is about. Those pictures in your head about a glorious golden era, well that's all they are. The time you want to return to was just as grindy, just as tedious and certainly as easy as anything you're doing now. It's like when your grandparents tell you how your culture today sucks, and back in their day it was just so much better. Same thing at work in your head, you are recalling more than just the stuff you think you are, and it's not your fault we all do it.

You recall the funny one-liners from that one guy who doesn't play now, the conversations had before the event, the random chaos that happened that one time that lead to a LS inside joke, the drama with that other guy in that rival LS who doesn't play anymore, and when it was all new to you. That's what you really want, unless you just have fond memories of doing the digital version of watching paint dry.

[Auriga]

-Hears the echo of statements like "back in my day we walked 900 miles to go to school" an leaves the area immediately-

[Mahoro]

Agree, the new game style encourage more co-operation with random strangers since everything is in abundance, and working together toward the same goal cuts down the "waiting game". Everything is faster, easier, and more fun by working together now. Glad they at least see this part and revamp the game and get rid of the old days, let's hope they see the light and make tweaks to voidwatch, neo nyzul and legion and promote working together with random strangers.

They already have. It's called "shouting for hours in Port Jeuno and waiting for random strangers to gather who end up not having VW ports or temp items or know how to handle a lamp order in Nyzul, and then wiping to that tough mob anyway". Random strangers GO!

Don't make the mistake of thinking cooperation with random strangers means everything is magically faster and easier. No accountability or continuity can be a lonely thing. Just ask the people who have to spend most of their evenings /sh in PJ to get anything done.

[Mahoro]

right because having a large linkshell make a relic for you and then stealing the bank, getting your close in game friends all the gear first under the old big linkshell system,

yadda yadda yadda


This is like a paint-by-numbers of every cliche in the book, which assumes that because of that one story that one guy heard, every large LS is inherently corrupt, all banks are just waiting to be run off with, and all gear instantly goes to those who fellate LS leaders. It's always the instant go-to argument; "just add water". It also conveniently shifts the blame away from the person who willingly submitted themselves to shitty LS's with shitty rules or untrustworthy people. Sometimes I wish everyone had to take a course in statistics or learned how not to make crass generalizations to prove their arguments.

[Alhanelem]

Yes, let's return to the days where you often spent hours puttering around looking for a party so you could get more than 0 EXP per hour. Let's return to the days where the currently unpopular jobs were even less popular (and at the time, deservedly so).

SE isn't going to make a (live) server that all of 10 people will want to play on. And do you have any idea how much of a nightmare it is to maintain multiple versions of the same game?

Not to mention how fast you'd get bored because there wouldn't be any new content.

[Midorikaze]

Not to be off-topic, but speaking of content: does anybody do MMM anymore?

Honestly, I kind of miss it ^^

[Luvbunny]

Not to be off-topic, but speaking of content: does anybody do MMM anymore? Honestly, I kind of miss it ^^

You will miss it forever I am afraid, they already said they will do NOTHING to update MMM. It's a dead content along with countless other dead contents that they just won't update or fix. Half baked at launch then abandoned by players, ignored by the developers and pretty much left to die so they can continue to give us another warmed up rehash of another "new" content inspired by old content, and make sure it has low drop rate and not very accessible with invisible barriers to make sure that players cannot consume it right away before jumping through many hoops. Sorry the abyssea play style is never going to be repeated ever again.... it's way too good and too much fun of a content.

[Mahoro]

Lol, nice slipping in of "accessible" and "abyssea" .

[Zerich]

lol, nice white knighting of old content

[Mifaco]

I would like to make an addition to my previous post:

Please return to the days when CN was shut down for hours at a time because someone had trained a Knight Crawler all the way back to the entrance, and anyone stepping in reaggroed the train and faced instant death. You could also hire a BST as a hitman by having him subtly drop a knight crawler on top of your target's party.

Ah, the good old days.

[Llana_Virren]

I think you guys are missing the point.

As a porter who played the JP release, I can tell you that players nowadays miss the entire POINT of what the old school game was about...

Yeah, going 0-for-100 on a drop sucks, but it made going 1-for-200 that much MORE amazing. And the sense of accomplishment your party or LS got for completing an insanely tough mission (read as: Promy runs) made the sense of accomplishment -worth- the hassle.

Do I want to go back to LFG for hours trying to get EXP/Merits? No.
Do I think the game allows for anyone to achieve Lv.99 without skill or gear? Yes, and the fact that players can level from 37-96 in 12 hours (I've done it) weakens the player base as a whole.

We -need- mobs to get tougher, and drops to get fewer, to give us a reason to play the game.
Rule #1 of any MMO... "Never give players everything they want."

[Luvbunny]

Yeah, going 0-for-100 on a drop sucks, but it made going 1-for-200 that much MORE amazing. And the sense of accomplishment your party or LS got for completing an insanely tough mission (read as: Promy runs) made the sense of accomplishment -worth- the hassle.

Do I want to go back to LFG for hours trying to get EXP/Merits? No.
Do I think the game allows for anyone to achieve Lv.99 without skill or gear? Yes, and the fact that players can level from 37-96 in 12 hours (I've done it) weakens the player base as a whole.

We -need- mobs to get tougher, and drops to get fewer, to give us a reason to play the game.
Rule #1 of any MMO... "Never give players everything they want."

I think you need a new shrink to examine your head. It's called video games, emphasize on GAME, which means it needs to be fun. If you want a life simulation of super hard (read: mob with gazilions HP and insta kill moves and hate resets with multiple adds) crap then you might as well go outside and "level up" your real life jobs. To be honest, the hard mode is still here in the game. They came up with tons of new crappy contents with super low drop rate. Some gets easier, the newest one are still annoyingly hard and require some sort of team work and strategy. Old school are dead for a good reasons, because it sucks, and today, people see games are something to fun and enjoyable to waste their time. This is not a game where you get absolutely nothing for the time you spent and constantly being punished in any ways shape possible.

[Llana_Virren]

The only thing bad about "old school" was the EXP grind. Every MMO encounters MPK and RMT and PLs and the like, so too many people want to associate "old school" playing to "hard, unfun" playing.

If you didn't have fun playing in 2003, why would you still be playing now?

Obviously, even the "Old school is dead for good reason" people didn't have it all -that- bad.

Thanks for suggesting the mental health examination... obviously spending too much time in Abyssea getting 100+k exp/hr has numbed my brain from how to actually "play" a "game" ....

[Anapingofness]

Point #1: Drugs are bad for you.

Point #2: I started this game in '04. Anyone who agrees with this either hasn't played this game from the original/RoZ/CoP days or they're PC-addled hotshots who only want to brag about how oh-so "l33t" they are (while typing in their parents' basements/attics). Anyone who's been there from the start wouldn't go back if they were offered free play forever.

Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes! You, my good Sir are correct in both points!

I saw the OP and thought to myself.
"No."
Then I thought " ...You are the reason we can't have nice things."

Then I realized that anyone speaking about "the good old days" has probably never played during "the good old days" and that they should be ignored completely.

If SE did go back to that crap something tells me that they would get lynched.

[Collavoce]

Personally, I think that giving players an option (which is what a separate server would be) is never a problem. However, I'm not sure that I'd like for everything to go back to the old days. I think having a server that's locked @75 content could work for those who like old school parties. I would, however, keep the current xp awards and not go down to where it took a year to make it to 75.

I mean, yes, you can currently make old school style parties and they are somewhat better for lack of competition (my LS has them scheduled weekly and the xp isn't half-bad). However, outside of scheduled LS events, putting an event like this together is next to impossible.

I would certainly sign up for this kind of server if it did become available. Also, note that these servers are very VERY popular on games that have instaured them (Everquest). You may also notice that making this type of server may actually bring back quite a few people.

[Camiie]

I think you guys are missing the point.

As a porter who played the JP release, I can tell you that players nowadays miss the entire POINT of what the old school game was about...

Yeah, going 0-for-100 on a drop sucks, but it made going 1-for-200 that much MORE amazing. And the sense of accomplishment your party or LS got for completing an insanely tough mission (read as: Promy runs) made the sense of accomplishment -worth- the hassle.

Despite the Skinner Box and the popularity of casinos and lotteries, not everyone gets the powerful gambler's high that you seem to when you finally win after losing for so long. For me it's not a thrill so much as a "Thank God that's over! I hope I never have to do that again!" So for many of us the accomplishment ISN'T worth the hassle. Many of us would prefer to work toward a goal rather than have to luck into everything.


Do I want to go back to LFG for hours trying to get EXP/Merits? No.
Do I think the game allows for anyone to achieve Lv.99 without skill or gear? Yes, and the fact that players can level from 37-96 in 12 hours (I've done it) weakens the player base as a whole.

It's no one's responsibility to ensure that the rest of the playerbase meets your standards. That's why you can choose who you team up with. If no one out there is good enough for you then form a LS from whoever you can find and show them how you think things should be done.


We -need- mobs to get tougher, and drops to get fewer, to give us a reason to play the game.

We have plenty of tough mobs already, and if drop rates got any lower you'd end up losing gear at the end of a fight.


Rule #1 of any MMO... "Never give players everything they want."

They're not, they never have, and they never will. If you think stuff is just being given away you're deluded or grossly exaggerating.

[Dazusu]

This is not a game where you get absolutely nothing for the time you spent and constantly being punished in any ways shape possible.

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.

The things you consider 'punishment' are meant to be a fun part of the game - and a lot of people do enjoy those parts.

The part where you build the pop set for your dragon for the shiny sword is meant to be fun and rewarding as a game - not just the item at the end. But if the item at the end is all that's important, why play?

[hiko]

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun?

I agree on this.
but when you've done it (several) hundred times and still have make no progress since your first try it's no longer fun!

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Personally, I think that giving players an option (which is what a separate server would be) is never a problem.

(...)

However, outside of scheduled LS events, putting an event like this together is next to impossible.

How will you populate a server if you can't even populate a linkshell?

[Collavoce]

The linkshell is populated, I'm talking about trying to get a pick-up group. The problem is that people who would be interested in this are scattered across servers. Also, alot of the success of the Everquest progression servers have been people coming back to the game. I wouldn't discount it just because alot of people love Abyssea. Not everyone does.

[Hayward]

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.

The things you consider 'punishment' are meant to be a fun part of the game - and a lot of people do enjoy those parts.

The part where you build the pop set for your dragon for the shiny sword is meant to be fun and rewarding as a game - not just the item at the end. But if the item at the end is all that's important, why play?

This may be too American a concept for you, but where there is risk there should be rewards equal to that risk. Any event with high-tier items should not, repeat, NOT be tied to luck or the whims of a developer looking to make certain jobs as ineffective as possible against their precious HNMs, VNMs, or VWNMs. The journey may be fun to you, but there ultimately needs to be a destination to be reached.

[Dazusu]

This may be too American a concept for you

The box you live in must be nice and cosy.

[Faustenin]

Admittedly, this thread pisses me off.
This is going to sound goofy as all hell, but is it weird to genuinley enjoy a bit of suffering in your game? Yeah FFXI was hell and all, but christ look at why a game like Dark Souls is so well loved. It made every little advancement you made, every little achievment; something that you could flaunt as a piece of gear or just a personal experience that made the end result feel so -good-. (I'll never forget soloing you Lumbering Lambert. I still keep your horn in my MH since that day 4 years ago)
People are so obsessed with having that piece of gear and looking cool that they cant seem to understand what makes that gear so amazing. It's just not the fact that you now have +25 attack or +10% haste, or whatever. But the blood, sweat and tears, and the experience that came from getting that gear.
Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

[Camiie]

Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

I want a social fantasy game, not a ridiculously expensive chat room.

[Anapingofness]

This may be too American a concept for you, but where there is risk there should be rewards equal to that risk. Any event with high-tier items should not, repeat, NOT be tied to luck or the whims of a developer looking to make certain jobs as ineffective as possible against their precious HNMs, VNMs, or VWNMs. The journey may be fun to you, but there ultimately needs to be a destination to be reached.

I agree with what you're saying. Having everything be luck based is what's killing this game. However calling it an American concept is a bit much, no doubt more than a few people will get their panties in a bunch. Personally, meh- I can see what you're getting at and yeah, I agree. I suppose a more PC term for it would be a "concept of common sense"
but really, as it turns out common sense is a rarity.

The only thing that I would really edit with what you said is the fun vagueness in your statement. Games have to be fun, no exceptions. If the journey is not fun then the destination will not be reached.

Mind you this is strictly in regards to games. Real life is different because we have obligations we must fulfill but that is why the fun factor is so important in the way we decide to spend our leisure time.

[Anapingofness]

Admittedly, this thread pisses me off.
This is going to sound goofy as all hell, but is it weird to genuinley enjoy a bit of suffering in your game? Yeah FFXI was hell and all, but christ look at why a game like Dark Souls is so well loved. It made every little advancement you made, every little achievment; something that you could flaunt as a piece of gear or just a personal experience that made the end result feel so -good-. (I'll never forget soloing you Lumbering Lambert. I still keep your horn in my MH since that day 4 years ago)
People are so obsessed with having that piece of gear and looking cool that they cant seem to understand what makes that gear so amazing. It's just not the fact that you now have +25 attack or +10% haste, or whatever. But the blood, sweat and tears, and the experience that came from getting that gear.
Sitting around sucked, but you know what you did to kill the time waiting for parties?
TALK TO YOUR LS.

There is truth in what you say.
A challenge done right can be very rewarding and fun. Dark Souls does that pretty well but even there it's a delicate balance. One too many faceplants and the player gets frustrated. It's a lot harder that one would think to hit that sweet spot where it's just the right amount of challange/faceplant. lol

It really is the experience that people remember, not the gear. It's simply how the human memory works.
i.e. "Remember when LS X lost claim on Faffy at 1%? Bunzz voked and claimed. He 2hrd and killed it."
Nobody talks about the drops! XD

To address your closing statement-- I can't say that everyone talked to their LS or pm'd specific people between party invites but to be perfectly honest that was a small fraction of people.
I know a great deal of people who watched TV, did their chores, or did their homework. At the time, I was one of those people. It wasn't that they were having fun or a good experience it was that their experience of the game was put on hold by the fact that they had to wait hours upon hours, upon hours for an invites. Granted, certain jobs got invites faster than others but they were a select few.

I wouldn't say that this thread pisses me off... I just think the OP is delusional about what the "good ole days" really were. =\

[Luvbunny]

Don't you understand that the entire road you follow is meant to be fun? If you want instant gratification, there are single player games. MMOs were never (and still aren't) about instant gratification. If you think you're putting in hundreds of hours, like a real "job" for an ultimate goal, and nothing is fun about it - then this isn't a game to you, and you shouldn't be playing it. If the defintion of a 'game' to you is the shiny sword at the end of the fight - then again, this isn't a game to you.


Actually they do know how to create instant fun gratification - Abyssea is the most popular example and the best one on how to create great contents. ToAU and CoP endgame to a degree but not as optimal as Abyssea. My main issue is how they want to bring everything back to pre-abyssea where people have to go 200-300 or more just to get a chance to get a drop. And you are not getting any measured progression whatsoever, just dumb luck if you get the gears, and mostly for other people, try try again. They could at least have a points for better gear where you can redeem them, and the sidegrade gears are just nice added bonus. This way people will go do them more for the points. But then you are running into "barance" issue... hence Legion and Neo Nyzul :)

[Mahoro]

Your argument only applies to Voidwatch, and is inapplicable to Neo-Nyzul or Legion.

1) You don't have to go 200-300 in Neo-Nyzul or Legion.

2) You CAN get measured progression in Neo-Nyzul with the recent update.

3) There is a points system in Legion. Albeit, one that nobody currently wants anything from, but IIRC they intend to patch it and tweak the event itself.

[Faustenin]

There is truth in what you say.
A challenge done right can be very rewarding and fun. Dark Souls does that pretty well but even there it's a delicate balance. One too many faceplants and the player gets frustrated. It's a lot harder that one would think to hit that sweet spot where it's just the right amount of challange/faceplant. lol

It really is the experience that people remember, not the gear. It's simply how the human memory works.
i.e. "Remember when LS X lost claim on Faffy at 1%? Bunzz voked and claimed. He 2hrd and killed it."
Nobody talks about the drops! XD

To address your closing statement-- I can't say that everyone talked to their LS or pm'd specific people between party invites but to be perfectly honest that was a small fraction of people.
I know a great deal of people who watched TV, did their chores, or did their homework. At the time, I was one of those people. It wasn't that they were having fun or a good experience it was that their experience of the game was put on hold by the fact that they had to wait hours upon hours, upon hours for an invites. Granted, certain jobs got invites faster than others but they were a select few.

I wouldn't say that this thread pisses me off... I just think the OP is delusional about what the "good ole days" really were. =\

I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. But I genuinley think FFXI -had- that right balance of Sweet And Sour. (Like The one update where level sync and FoV came out.) The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

Also, after a while, did no one else get wise about waiting for invites?
Maybe I was a spoiled DRG, but theres a lot you can do besides sitting around andtalking to your LS while LFP.
Craft, solo some weaker mobs. Farm, dink around on the AH. Or my personal favorite, get a small trio of friends and fight some VTs-lower end ITs.

[Anapingofness]

I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. But I genuinley think FFXI -had- that right balance of Sweet And Sour. (Like The one update where level sync and FoV came out.) The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

Also, after a while, did no one else get wise about waiting for invites?
Maybe I was a spoiled DRG, but theres a lot you can do besides sitting around andtalking to your LS while LFP.
Craft, solo some weaker mobs. Farm, dink around on the AH. Or my personal favorite, get a small trio of friends and fight some VTs-lower end ITs.

It's easy for me to look upon FFXI in the past with rose colored glasses. Despite the bitter aftertaste I still had a lot of fun in the game. It was in part due to me being in high school at the time and in part with the players I met.
Certainly, as I look back on it now I find myself wanting to agree with you. However, I don't think FFXI had that flow you were talking about. The lvling in FFXI was what took up most of everyone's time, not the content. Once the lvling was made easier it was easier to see how little content FFXI really had/has and how much of it is just dead content.

Ten years ago the market had a small handful of MMO's. Right now the market is saturated with 'em. SE is still stubbornly clinging to what it was like pre-WoW. The refusal to evolve with the times is what's killing this game.

[Luvbunny]

I agree with you about the OP. I wont deny the annoyance that there was before in FFXI was pretty thick. The flow of the game was -just right- and level progression didnt seem half-hazard at best.
My main gripe with how FFXI went downhill was the book burn mentality. It went from being a pain in the rear to braindead stupid now. (Leveling in WoW is harder at this rate. :/)

I for one, am very glad to be able to say to my other friends who play WoW, that FFXI now has the fastest way to lvl, it is so much easier now to level up all your jobs - then go back and learn all the nuances in Abyssea by soloing or within a small party set up. Abyssea is very fun to learn the jobs on your own, mix and match atmas, seeing what is possible with low man set up, collecting the shiny seals and plus 2 materials. Though I agree with you, there other things to do beside levelling up - and SE decided to do just that, made lvl up no brainer and ridiculously easy so now we have no excuse to complaint that it is very hard to make a party, etc.... Good riddance to be honest. The game is so much fun now. All they need to do is balancing these new contents and make it so that it's more on par with Abyssea level of fun.

[Faustenin]

It's easy for me to look upon FFXI in the past with rose colored glasses. Despite the bitter aftertaste I still had a lot of fun in the game. It was in part due to me being in high school at the time and in part with the players I met.
Certainly, as I look back on it now I find myself wanting to agree with you. However, I don't think FFXI had that flow you were talking about. The lvling in FFXI was what took up most of everyone's time, not the content. Once the lvling was made easier it was easier to see how little content FFXI really had/has and how much of it is just dead content.

Ten years ago the market had a small handful of MMO's. Right now the market is saturated with 'em. SE is still stubbornly clinging to what it was like pre-WoW. The refusal to evolve with the times is what's killing this game.

I can agree and disagree with you. I was in highschool as well and had a lot more free time. There is no denying that FFXI is much more accesible, and I like that. I just think the shift was far too much, and way too fast.
By flow though, I mean there was a steady sense of progression not just character wise, but internally.
Start out soloing, start partying in dunes. Make a journey to Jeuno and hit up Qufim and Delkfutts. Go on a journey across the three countriess to get those three keys, then fight in Kazham. (And learn SCs and maybe MBs. Almost everyone I know started learning how to SC there.), Crawlers nest, Garliage, Altepa, Kuftal, Wojaom, Aydeewa,(Or Bibiki, I made a few parties there for fun) Bhaflu, Caedarva. Each area was different, had a set of things that made them different from one another.
That's what I meant by flow, you had a steady sense of progression as you not only learned more about the world of FFXI, but more about your job abilities, how other jobs functioned with yours.

FFXI should evolve, but not sacrifice what gave it it's integrity. Speed up the level progression, raise some of the ungodly drop rates, and work with the balance of Risk vs Reward a bit better.
FoV and GoV are great additions, but the way they're used where you have around 18 people mass murdering EP mobs is a terrible, terrible way to balance a game.
Mind you I dont have rose tinted glasses in regards to FFXI of old. I know what it was, but rather than completely abandon ship, SE should have worked better with what -did- work, and try to minimalize what didnt.

[Luvbunny]

You do realize that you don't have to go on a murder rampage with 18 people doing GoV? You can go do your normal xp party with 6 people set up and reap up good xp old school style - with much better xp gain compared to the good old days and yet can still retain the level of progression you want. The state of FFXI now has more options, better ways to do things, and you can almost tailor how you want to experience the game. A few balance adjustment is neccessary and I feel that they are trying but can only do so much with limited funds and bad direction from the man in charge. But overall the game is better because of the abyssea content.

However if all of you so yearn of the good old days - I suggest you try FF14, you will love the atrocity, unfriendly UI, totally unplayable classes (I am looking at you mages), and sloooooow progression, bewildered state, and many confusion in trying to play the game. It even come with a discounted rate and much better graphics. Go ahead and give it a try, it will make you appreciate all the things about FFXI today.

[Faustenin]

You... obviously havent actually tried to make a normal EXP party nowadays. If it was that easy I wouldnt be griping on the forums XD

Try doing like you said and make a 6 man PT, mass spamming /sea all like crazy, tell me how long it goes. ^^

[Zerich]

You... obviously havent actually tried to make a normal EXP party nowadays. If it was that easy I wouldnt be griping on the forums XD

Try doing like you said and make a 6 man PT, mass spamming /sea all like crazy, tell me how long it goes. ^^

i'll try flushing my head down the toilet first. they both make as much sense.

[Rhianu]

Have to assume the OP is a troll because he said it took Skill and Patience to play FFXI.
Well, he's right about the patience part...

[Luvbunny]

You... obviously havent actually tried to make a normal EXP party nowadays. If it was that easy I wouldnt be griping on the forums XD. Try doing like you said and make a 6 man PT, mass spamming /sea all like crazy, tell me how long it goes. ^^

You mean getting close to 400-600 xp per kill or more is not a good incentive? in 10 mnts you are getting 400x5 plus 2000 GoV bonus, more with xp bonus ring. It's about the same xp you are getting via GoV 18 people. It's just more works and require 5 other people who knows what they are doing. The reasons it's harder because you have to get the usual set up of tank + healers and do it old school ways :)

You don't learn your jobs by doing xp party grind these days, you learn your job by going to Abyssea and solo mobs or doing a small set up party fighting NMs for seals. That's a better way to learn anyway, since the mobs are a lot tougher and people need to understand a bit of basic team work to succeed.

[Anapingofness]

I can agree and disagree with you. I was in highschool as well and had a lot more free time. There is no denying that FFXI is much more accesible, and I like that. I just think the shift was far too much, and way too fast.
By flow though, I mean there was a steady sense of progression not just character wise, but internally.
Start out soloing, start partying in dunes. Make a journey to Jeuno and hit up Qufim and Delkfutts. Go on a journey across the three countriess to get those three keys, then fight in Kazham. (And learn SCs and maybe MBs. Almost everyone I know started learning how to SC there.), Crawlers nest, Garliage, Altepa, Kuftal, Wojaom, Aydeewa,(Or Bibiki, I made a few parties there for fun) Bhaflu, Caedarva. Each area was different, had a set of things that made them different from one another.
That's what I meant by flow, you had a steady sense of progression as you not only learned more about the world of FFXI, but more about your job abilities, how other jobs functioned with yours.

FFXI should evolve, but not sacrifice what gave it it's integrity. Speed up the level progression, raise some of the ungodly drop rates, and work with the balance of Risk vs Reward a bit better.
FoV and GoV are great additions, but the way they're used where you have around 18 people mass murdering EP mobs is a terrible, terrible way to balance a game.
Mind you I dont have rose tinted glasses in regards to FFXI of old. I know what it was, but rather than completely abandon ship, SE should have worked better with what -did- work, and try to minimalize what didnt.

I can see where you're coming from. I respect that and in a lot of ways you are right.

[Llana_Virren]

You don't learn your jobs by doing xp party grind these days, you learn your job by going to Abyssea and solo mobs or doing a small set up party fighting NMs for seals. That's a better way to learn anyway, since the mobs are a lot tougher and people need to understand a bit of basic team work to succeed.

Since we're in a "back in the day" thread....

You "got an understanding of your job and party dynamics" -BY- doing EXP parties. The role a THF versus DRG versus COR would play in a party was vastly different, and you learned the nuances of each combination through EXP parties.

To suggest that you need "small parties fighting NMs" as a way to learn a job is a dangerous, but relatively modern mentality. It also means that some NMs are grossly overpowered while others are... well, let's just say they're not notorious.

This is why you see many a Lv99 using sub-70 gear, because the "good gear or get out" requirement for defeating a lot of zones was negated by the raised level cap.

But I digress. EXP parties are dead, and considering the length of time FFXI has been out, and the lack of genuine (new players) joining the game, it's safe to say you can learn your job from your LS mates or FFXIclopedia just as well as EXP parties ever could, with a fraction of the time, too.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. People nowadays are not inherently "less" of a player because of how much easier it was for them to level up. But some people think that the gear and the EXP makes the player, and that anyone who does it easier is half-a-player.

You know what I miss about the good ol' days? All this shit we're doing used to be NEW and UNKNOWN. That's what we need! Adventure!

[Faustenin]

You know what I miss about the good ol' days? All this shit we're doing used to be NEW and UNKNOWN. That's what we need! Adventure!

http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Omg+super+awesome+Thank+You+Now+have+my+babies+oO+_0b64b40507bfb7b11fd81f6a52e128c8.jpg

EDIT : Here's an idea SE. Make a new expansion. This new expansion will cater to the 99+.
It will be one massive gigantic dungeon, the size of every single CoP zone crammed into one, sprawling, hellish dungeon.
Puzzles. Riddles, Monsters with devilish AI and placement. Booby traps, and give absolutely no information about it. Make stuff random, so wiki is only half-reliable.

[Llana_Virren]

I'd assume you were being sarcastic, but I still find myself liking the idea. :P

Level-capped areas are (hopefully) never to be seen again, as my inventories just can't handle that kind of crap agian.
On the flip-side, however, make magic scrolls (if any new spells are introduced) RareEx so players who want it have to go get it, similar to how Armor/Weapons/WSs are for the rest.

[Faustenin]

I'd assume you were being sarcastic, but I still find myself liking the idea. :P

Level-capped areas are (hopefully) never to be seen again, as my inventories just can't handle that kind of crap agian.
On the flip-side, however, make magic scrolls (if any new spells are introduced) RareEx so players who want it have to go get it, similar to how Armor/Weapons/WSs are for the rest.

No sarcasm at all. I love myself a good dungeon crawl. I still like to try and Solo through Pso Xja, or Delkfutts as a low level and see how high I can climb. Or horutoto before they retarded up the mob levels.
Level capped areas were great when they had level sync.

[Luvbunny]

You "got an understanding of your job and party dynamics" -BY- doing EXP parties. The role a THF versus DRG versus COR would play in a party was vastly different, and you learned the nuances of each combination through EXP parties.

To suggest that you need "small parties fighting NMs" as a way to learn a job is a dangerous, but relatively modern mentality. It also means that some NMs are grossly overpowered while others are... well, let's just say they're not notorious.

This is why you see many a Lv99 using sub-70 gear, because the "good gear or get out" requirement for defeating a lot of zones was negated by the raised level cap.

But I digress. EXP parties are dead, and considering the length of time FFXI has been out, and the lack of genuine (new players) joining the game, it's safe to say you can learn your job from your LS mates or FFXIclopedia just as well as EXP parties ever could, with a fraction of the time, too.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. People nowadays are not inherently "less" of a player because of how much easier it was for them to level up. But some people think that the gear and the EXP makes the player, and that anyone who does it easier is half-a-player.

You know what I miss about the good ol' days? All this shit we're doing used to be NEW and UNKNOWN. That's what we need! Adventure!

That depends, normal exp party set up is not your way to learn your job since they are "safe" environment. You end up doing the same thing over and over and it is one dimensional. Fighting NM in small party set up or solo-trio in abyssea is way much harder since everyone is doing a double duty - in the case of solo, you are doing triple duty everything. You learn more about your jobs in all the endgame contents since those require you to be "alert" and "awake". 6 people party set up is easy to have your mages fall asleep due to boredom. In any case not to say one way is better than the other, but bad players are still everywhere no matter what.

As for a lot of lvl 99 players wearing pink-pearle-teal gears...well it takes time to "grind" the gears now more than leveling up. Though all gears Af3+1 are very easy to farm in a couple hours a day should these people take some times to do. There is also VW side gears for those with enough gils to burn. The focus today is flexibility and versatility. This is a double edge sword since it takes time to learn some jobs more than others, and skilling up is definitely a problem with the fast leveling.

In the adventuring part - yeah that is kinda gone - unless you are incline to do the missions. Voidwatch in essence is "adventuring" - each one forces you to go to all these different places - and if you have not done your missions, those places are not accessible. Each VW NM also "a mystery" at least for a week or two until people find the strategy how to beat it - which is the case with old game contents as well. This game is a big massive GRIND in one way or another. It used to be about xp grind, now it's gear + weapon grind.

[Llana_Virren]

I think gear grinds are the best. Obviously they suck, but the grinds are (normally) reserved for items of epicness... such as the Relics used to me a multi-year conquest.

Personally, I think that FFXI is going to go one of two ways.

On the one hand, now that we have new grind-gear, SE could introduce more fulfilling storylines in forthcoming installments (read as: they don't necessarily need to be a full-on expansion pack, although it woudl be welcomed) with primary emphasis on content, not equipment.

Or,

FFXI will slowly die off as nothing "dramatically new" is introduced, players continue to level up, acquire everything they want, and quit the game (as we saw happen after people "finally" finished with their Relics).

Considering how long FFXI has been out, I think an overhaul to the graphics would be necessary, but not likely due to the lack of new blood coming to the game. FFXI is turning into the old FF's, in that players start it up to "relive" a game they beat long ago, knowing that everything is the same as it was.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

FFXI is turning into the old FF's,

Of the "old FF's"
All three 8-bit titles got graphics updates.
All the cartridge-based titles got content/storyline additions.
Final Fantasy IV even got what might even be called an "expansion pack" (released after WotG)


So falling into the "old FF" category isn't much of a bad thing.

[Llana_Virren]

Not bad at all... as long as you accept the fact that there will never be anything "new" to do that you haven't already done... which seems to be the major reason for all this nostalgia: no new content.

[Ravenmore]

Every one that thinks they are hardcore or the game was ever hard because they played in the good old days were never hardcore. You want hardcore go play EVE. That game will chew you up and spit you out after telling you your a dirty girl. It makes EQ cry for its mama.

[wildsprite]

to the OP, if that is how you and several others want to play, you know you don't have to do LB6+ or use the books or abyssea, just make a LS together and go knock yourselves out

[Luvbunny]

to the OP, if that is how you and several others want to play, you know you don't have to do LB6+ or use the books or abyssea, just make a LS together and go knock yourselves out

LOL he does not even have to go that far. All he needs to do is avoid abyssea altogether and just level up using standard old school party via GoV. There are plenty of camp that let you level up to 99. His main problem is finding 5 other people. Yeah I know, as much as people wish the good old days, in reality, no one is that crazy to actually want to relive this. Good luck for him to find those groups, at least he can get 40-60k per hour now instead of the usual 12k-18k per hour merit camp party.

[Llana_Virren]

Every one that thinks they are hardcore or the game was ever hard because they played in the good old days were never hardcore. You want hardcore go play EVE. That game will chew you up and spit you out after telling you your a dirty girl. It makes EQ cry for its mama.

I don't know about "everyone." My only issue is that we have very little "in depth, complex -content-" that one has come to expect from a game carrying the Final Fantasy title. RotZ and CoP were incredibly well thought out, and many of the side quests added with those expansions were very good, as well. ToAU and WotG were a steady decline, and the 3+3 "mini expansions" are craptacular.

If you think that the last 2 expansion packs have added ANY sort of major, game-making content to FFXI, then you live under a very small, damp rock. A "hardcore" rock if that better suits your fancy. ^___^

[Ravenmore]

Really you found CoP and RoTZ complex, you have never played another MMO have you. No the game has never been hardcore or complex because of guess what having to work with in the limits of the PS2. What you are also remembering is though the lens of having so long in between missons that you fail to see how corny the story line really is. CoP while having the best last CS is filled with crap and only reason to finish it was all the gear options getting to sea open up. Then RoTz could be finish in two days that isn't complex its freaking easy. That not even needing a full party for all the fights.

[wildsprite]

lots of good memories in the old system, but face it, the old grind was tedious and annoying, I agree with the majority of the people who responded, going back to the old way is insane and nothing prevents you from doing things the old way except perhaps for finding others who are willing to do it with you

[Llana_Virren]

Then RoTz could be finish in two days that isn't complex its freaking easy. That not even needing a full party for all the fights.

2004 called, and it said that you need to remember what the level caps were and how less people understood game mechanics. At the time, RotZ and CoP were pretty hard, and although the storyline might not have been as complex as your favorite Twilight novel, there was ten-fold the content you'll see in any other expansions to this game.

But beating RotZ with half a party? No, not when it was released.

[Rohelius]

Oh my god with awesome games like Guild Wars 2 coming out and you want to go back to 2002 in FFXI!?

Guild Wars 1 aint even that old... just play Mario 3 if you want old school.

[Llana_Virren]

[J]ust play Mario 3 if you want old school.

I like how you still used a sequel in your example of "old school" lol....

[Ravenmore]

Yeah for like a week till the strats made it out. Stop thinking it was ever hard only people that were lacking reading skills ever found the game hard. The hardest part has and will always be finding 5 to 17 people that have a funtioning brain. WoW has more complex game play then FFXI could ever dream of having. You know what the most complex thing you have in FFXI use X item at Y% thats the way 90% of people beat Airship before the nerfs and before the level cap lifting the others tank and spank it. Really have you even played anyother MMOs.

[Llana_Virren]

Really have you even played anyother MMOs.

I'm assuming that's a question despite the lack of a question mark, so here's the deal.

Of course I have.

And for why that question is irrelevent:

The "Final Fantasy" name implies a deep and meaningful storyline. I did NOT say that RotZ or CoP had that. Rather, I said that in comparison to MODERN expansions, those were the closest to what FF is really about.

But the truth is, content and story have continually declined in an effort to keep players playing, and now we have people who don't even REMEMBER the "old school" element, or they were the players who got so butthurt about not getting invites as lolDRG and lolDRK. Because of the long-demanded changes to improve jobs (read as: DRG and DRK are better than "party slot -1"), story got pushed aside.

If you're happy having your jobs at Lv.99 with Empy+14 gear, cheers to you!
Personally, I'd rather acquire that gear so I can make storyline battles easier; gear should help to obtain a greater goal, not be the greater goal.

[Luvbunny]

The story line is there in the game, in the form of missions and quests. Once you complete the story + quests they are done for good. Some people play for that and quit soon after. Others play more for the dynamic of battle, hence gear collecting and weapon trials, pretty much the meat of the game, grinding time for items. For those who wants to adventure and exploring, there is no stopping you doing just that. The game is full of neglected areas that no one bothers to explore since it does not pertain to gear collection. Or if you incline, play as blue mage, which dictate that you must do the exploring to gather the spells. Again - I think the game now is good - it gives people options to do many things. But the current crop of new activities need adjustment badly and they need to adopt the fun, enjoyable and accessible play style.