Suggestion: Make /heal command to Reduce Weakness Time

[DangerousCalled]

Hello~
This is my first thread here :)

At old days (Lv75 cap) /heal command was usefull to heal our MP in main Fights (such HNMs , ZNM , Sky , Sea , etc) , And it was nice command to heal our HP in free spot area or once we got KO.

But @ Lv99 cap I think its less effect now , we got Gears/Spells/Abilities to Recover our MP , And Mele today don't want /heal to prevent lose his TP (even if he on weakness status).

So rare to see people use /heal command as rest for his/her character , we become as machine fighters /heal is just waste of time.

How about Added Nice Effect to our /heal command ?
while you resting in 3 min your weakness state wear off, since our weakness duration is 5 min , if our character got some rest (not has been standing all the time while weakness) should got good preparation for the battle .

What you think my friends?

[Luvbunny]

Great idea if it can reduce weakness to 2-3 mnts. I don't see this ever happening though - but you can only hope. Their main sole goal for this game now is to add "timesink" and "grindtastic event" whenever possible in every way they can. We are not getting new add ons or expansion. All the post abyssea contents are extremely non friendly to general population, with super low drop rate and just grind after grind after grind with side grade gears. The fact that the gears are decent is the only saving grace - at least it does not completely destroy abyssea gears.

[Aarahs]

Not happening. If you're weakened, you're supposed to be /healing. Zombieing is not supposed to be a tactic, hence double weakness.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

How about... no.

Absurd idea. Zombie'ing itself needs to be stopped, mages loose all their power, so to should DD's.

[cidbahamut]

Not happening. If you're weakened, you're supposed to be /healing.
There's plenty of jobs that can still contribute to the fight while weakened, so this argument is a bit shaky.

[Arcon]

Not happening. If you're weakened, you're supposed to be /healing. Zombieing is not supposed to be a tactic, hence double weakness.


How about... no.

Absurd idea. Zombie'ing itself needs to be stopped, mages loose all their power, so to should DD's.

How about realizing what this is about? This has absolutely zero to do with the ability to zombie-fight mobs. Even when you're not trying to fight weakened, are you really /healing? Very few jobs have any need at all to rest these days. This only still applies to (certain) mages in Legion. In fact, you could argue that this would motivate people to zombie less, because if they try to zombie they'll just get killed over and over. However, with this, if they rest they'll recover from weakness faster, so there's less of a motivation to zombie and instead just rest up to recover fully.

Personally I'm not sure how I feel about it, though. On the one hand, the 5min weakness is a well-placed penalty for dying in a fight, on the other hand, as was mentioned before, many jobs are not affected very much by weakness (single or multiple) in the first place, so it's doubtful if weakness really does much for them. I guess I wouldn't mind this, as it would give /healing some point again, but I don't feel strongly one way or another.

[Luvbunny]

Yeah god forbid they are going to start nerfing the beastmaster pet and avatar when you summon them on your "weakened" state... The 5 mnts cool down is ARCHAIC, OLD, and should be revised. This is 2012, over 10 years since the game first released. 3 mnts weakened state is more than plenty as punishment. Imagine if you are playing FF13 and you got punished with 5 mnts weakened state whenever the screen is "game over" or one of your party member died during the battle, yeah that will go over very well with the players.

[RAIST]

wasn't there a blurb a while back where they were looking into reducing the weakened time to 3 minutes or something? May have been bound to higher level raise/reraise...forget exactily what was mentioned, but remember reading it somewhere.

[Arcon]

wasn't there a blurb a while back where they were looking into reducing the weakened time to 3 minutes or something? May have been bound to higher level raise/reraise...forget exactily what was mentioned, but remember reading it somewhere.

Thinking of Arise? They said it will have a 3min weakness, as opposed to the regular 5min weakness.

[Kaisha]

But if they did that, they'd have to 'balance' it by making a new double-weakened state where you're stuck in weakened state for 10 minutes, have 1hp, and 0 accuracy.

[DangerousCalled]

thank you all for comments :cool:


Not happening. If you're weakened, you're supposed to be /healing. Zombieing is not supposed to be a tactic, hence double weakness.

not really , most of my time if I got weakness status I don't rest unless my MP below 40 MP as mage (even as mage I just use refresh or any method to recover my mp w/o healing)

and about Zombieng tactic , I aggre about what Arcon said:

This has absolutely zero to do with the ability to zombie-fight mobs. Even when you're not trying to fight weakened, are you really /healing? Very few jobs have any need at all to rest these days.

at last Zombieng tactic need to die every min or less , resting for 3 min I think this out plan of zombieng & in 3 min the Mob got over half HP return (thats if not full also).


But if they did that, they'd have to 'balance' it by making a new double-weakened state where you're stuck in weakened state for 10 minutes, have 1hp, and 0 accuracy.

about weakened 10 min , this 1 happen once u re zone Dynims ( old version )
but idk is this still happning :confused:

[Lokithor]

Great suggestion. Make /heal recover from weakened twice as fast as if not /heal. That would be 2.5 mins for normal raise and 1.5 mins if you were raised with arise. Or pick some other rate but faster is good.

[DangerousCalled]

up up

I hope dev team read about it & give me an answer :(

[saevel]

MMO's are about player involvement, taking a player out of the action for 5min isn't good for gameplay. FFXI needs to follow other MMO's and introduce a tiered stacking weakness state.

First time killed = -25% to HP / MP and -25% to all stats, lasts 3min.
Second time killed = -50% HP / MP -50% to all stats, lasts 3min.
Third time killed = -75% HP / MP -75% to all stats, lasts 3min.
Fourth time killed = -90% HP / MP -90% to all stats, lasts 3min. Last stage of weakness

Each time killed resets the 3min timer and increase's the penalty. This way you can afford to die once without being totally out of commission for the next 5min. Yet if you persist and keep dieing you'll get weaker and weaker until your completely useless. This behooves you to try not to die / zombie yet also allows the players wiggle room for BS like doom / Instant Death / massive aoe's.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yeah god forbid they are going to start nerfing the beastmaster pet and avatar when you summon them on your "weakened" state... The 5 mnts cool down is ARCHAIC, OLD, and should be revised. This is 2012, over 10 years since the game first released. 3 mnts weakened state is more than plenty as punishment. Imagine if you are playing FF13 and you got punished with 5 mnts weakened state whenever the screen is "game over" or one of your party member died during the battle, yeah that will go over very well with the players.

PMSL You're really going to compare a MMO with a Single Player game where the characters are crazy over-powered.

[Vivivivi]

I like the idea of keeping it simple- healing while weak reducing the amount of time weakened. Keep everything else the same, double weak, etc.

[Alhanelem]

up up

I hope dev team read about it & give me an answer :(
Take a number buddy, take a number.

[Anapingofness]

Good suggestion OP! ^^ That would be rather useful! =D

[Randwolf]

about weakened 10 min , this 1 happen once u re zone Dynims ( old version )
but idk is this still happning :confused:
No it isn't. The only way to trigger the 10 minute weakness was to exit the zone and re-enter. Now there is no re-entry.

[Elgorian]

MMO's are about player involvement, taking a player out of the action for 5min isn't good for gameplay. FFXI needs to follow other MMO's and introduce a tiered stacking weakness state.

First time killed = -25% to HP / MP and -25% to all stats, lasts 3min.
Second time killed = -50% HP / MP -50% to all stats, lasts 3min.
Third time killed = -75% HP / MP -75% to all stats, lasts 3min.
Fourth time killed = -90% HP / MP -90% to all stats, lasts 3min. Last stage of weakness


Honestly, I've only really seen that in FFXIV. Most MMO's have a 10 minute weakness if you straight up rez in a "retreating" way. In WoW it's 10 min sickness if you don't run back to your body. LOTRO gives some penalties each time I guess. But I'd rather not have a system from XIV implemented in XI. We all know how that game is going <_< until 2.0 at least where it might be worthwhile we'll see.

Anyway, I'd love to see something like OP implemented, I do still /heal when weakened just out of habit from how things used to be. Faster I'm unweakened the faster I'll be....useful.

[saevel]

Honestly, I've only really seen that in FFXIV. Most MMO's have a 10 minute weakness if you straight up rez in a "retreating" way. In WoW it's 10 min sickness if you don't run back to your body. LOTRO gives some penalties each time I guess. But I'd rather not have a system from XIV implemented in XI. We all know how that game is going <_< until 2.0 at least where it might be worthwhile we'll see.

Anyway, I'd love to see something like OP implemented, I do still /heal when weakened just out of habit from how things used to be. Faster I'm unweakened the faster I'll be....useful.

That's not a system from FFXIV. It's what most other MMO's use, a stacking weakness system upon returned from incapacitation. It's done to penalize the player for becoming incapacitated while not forcing the player to go watch TV.

[Basileus]

They reduced the time of being weakened significantly in Besieged. If it is okay there, why not anywhere else. I would like to see the time reduced myself. Being out in the field soloing or something, having to sit for 5 minutes while weakened is a waste of time.

[Okipuit]

Hey there,

We appreciate the suggestions, however, since weakness is a penalty for K.O., the development team currently has no plans to decrease its duration without special conditions.

[Llana_Virren]

They reduced the time of being weakened significantly in Besieged. If it is okay there, why not anywhere else. I would like to see the time reduced myself. Being out in the field soloing or something, having to sit for 5 minutes while weakened is a waste of time.

SE's philosophy: Don't die, then. <_<

[Reiterpallasch]

I'd rather see them just lower weakened timer in general, with an adjustment to arise to not give weakness at all.

Edit: I do agree with having some amount of a weakness though. Especially since we can just infinitely raise as many times as we want. Some games give you a set number of times you can raise throughout a fight, and once you use them all that's it, you're down for the count.

[Vivivivi]

I forgot where I read it, or what game it was for, but there is an MMO where when you KO, you have a finite amount of time to recover your spirit, and if you don't, you are permanently KO'd, meaning, the only way to continue playing is to create a new character :3

...I'm ok with having weakness lol.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'd rather see them just lower weakened timer in general, with an adjustment to arise to not give weakness at all.

Edit: I do agree with having some amount of a weakness though. Especially since we can just infinitely raise as many times as we want. Some games give you a set number of times you can raise throughout a fight, and once you use them all that's it, you're down for the count.

lol, just no! You'd have EVERYONE wanting Arise alone, there must be a weakness time for it, personally I preferred what was suggested before:

Raise 1 - 5 minutes
Raise 2 - 4 Minutes
Raise 3 - 3 Minutes
Arise - 2 minutes 30 seconds

[Godofgods]

Reduceing the weakness duration would kinda start to eliminate the point of being weakend. Its a penelty for dieing. Reduce/eliminate the penelty, and ppl will start not careing (even more) if they die or not.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Reduceing the weakness duration would kinda start to eliminate the point of being weakend. Its a penelty for dieing. Reduce/eliminate the penelty, and ppl will start not careing (even more) if they die or not.

As it stands DD's don't anyway, the weakness timer doesn't effect them in anyway other than lack of HP, but with most TP moves killing them at full HP it's negligible.

So the penalty only effects RNG and Mages, either make every job suffer it, or at lease weaken the duration naturally.

[cidbahamut]

As it stands DD's don't anyway, the weakness timer doesn't effect them in anyway other than lack of HP, but with most TP moves killing them at full HP it's negligible.

So the penalty only effects RNG and Mages, either make every job suffer it, or at lease weaken the duration naturally.

Yeah, +100% Slow is totally a non-issue, right?

[Spiritreaver]

I forgot where I read it, or what game it was for, but there is an MMO where when you KO, you have a finite amount of time to recover your spirit, and if you don't, you are permanently KO'd, meaning, the only way to continue playing is to create a new character :3

...I'm ok with having weakness lol.

Wow that's rough. Closest thing to that i've experienced in an MMO was a corpse-run in OG Everquest, and i always thought those were just cruel.

[Gokku]

Hes talking about wizardry online , in addition to having a continuously lowered chance with each death to be revived even if you find the item once you have died.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yeah, +100% Slow is totally a non-issue, right?

Compared to how the cripple they other jobs, yes!

[DangerousCalled]

Take a number buddy, take a number.

I got my number finally :D


Hey there,

We appreciate the suggestions, however, since weakness is a penalty for K.O., the development team currently has no plans to decrease its duration without special conditions.

thanks for the answer Mr.Okipuit ,
in case there is no changing about K.O. part , how about make /heal command more useful? at least make it heal some bad status (such as paralyze/blind/curse/minus effect of def or att , etc)

but at least my voice come to dev team & thats enough for while~

We are waiting for the "special conditions" to make decrease duration of K.O.

[Anapingofness]

/sigh. I expected such a response from SE. Really, I can't say I'm surprised but somehow the disappointment is still there.

Most people are ok with a weakness penalty. I just don't see the need to have it be 5minutes.

It's fine if it stacks since most people don't really go on KO sprees and in the end it is supposed to be a penalty.

What the dev team fails to understand is that 5 minutes is forever in game time. That five minutes is really felt when you can't do anything because of weakness. This is really felt on certain jobs.

I wish they'd really take some of these suggestions seriously or that they reached some sort of compromise.

For example, someone suggested that the weakness timer is lessened with every tear from Raise. The only thing I'd change with his suggestion is that Arise knock the weakness down to one and a half minutes. They've already stated that Arise is supposed to be a spell that is difficult to get. Which means, that only a small percentage of players will actually have that spell if it is really that difficult to get (I wouldn't know, I haven't tried) so I don't see how it is game breaking in the least or how it avoids weakness.

Well at least the devs got to hear this suggestion, at least that's a plus. D=

[Corydor]

actually 100% slow is an issue, drawing weapon alone with a low dps weapon takes forever since you have to wait for the weapon to go a full cycle before you can draw it again and your tp gain is in the toilet, also any dd job that depends on shadows is also in trouble because of the long recast of magic. so dd don't exactly get a free pass when they are weakened.

[Mirabelle]

Compared to how the cripple they other jobs, yes!

Especially in VW where everyone just pops wings and WS's. A double weak COR or RNG is shut out. Even QD won't work. A melee can still do almost equivalent damage in that situation. Good thing SE at least moved WS range back for Ranged WS. But the double weak thing needs to be adjusted.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

actually 100% slow is an issue, drawing weapon alone with a low dps weapon takes forever since you have to wait for the weapon to go a full cycle before you can draw it again and your tp gain is in the toilet, also any dd job that depends on shadows is also in trouble because of the long recast of magic. so dd don't exactly get a free pass when they are weakened.

So you'd do ~half the damage you'd usually do, Half is still better than 0% damage suffered by mages and Ranged DD's who ALSO suffer the 100% Slow.

[Eric]

We are waiting for the "special conditions" to make decrease duration of K.O.

We have those conditions. It's called "Arise". Reduces weakness timer to 3min. Unfortunately, I think that's as far as SE is willing to go with this issue.

[Camate]

Hello!

Sorry to necrobump this thread, but I wanted to pass along some information reading /heal.

As battle frequency is becoming faster, we recognize that there is not enough time to take a knee and rest like before. With that said, we feel that it’s about time to make some adjustments to /heal. While this is somewhat low in priority, the Development Team will be looking into this when they have the opportunity.

[Demon6324236]

Hello!

Sorry to necrobump this thread, but I wanted to pass along some information reading /heal.

As battle frequency is becoming faster, we recognize that there is not enough time to take a knee and rest like before. With that said, we feel that it’s about time to make some adjustments to /heal. While this is somewhat low in priority, the Development Team will be looking into this when they have the opportunity.

Thank you for the info Camate. Even though I have never personally talked about the /heal problems on these forums, I am happy to hear it may be looked into. I often find myself thinking that the HP/MP recovered without gear is far to low, and that it seems to serve little to no reason in the game much anymore, as most will either expect a recovery of some sort without /healing (Regen, Refresh, Cures, WHM Merit JAs, items) rather than "down time" from /healing. Also if it could reduce the weakness timer, as this thread's title suggests, that would also give it new reason to be useful!

[Mirage]

lol, just no! You'd have EVERYONE wanting Arise alone, there must be a weakness time for it, personally I preferred what was suggested before:

Raise 1 - 5 minutes
Raise 2 - 4 Minutes
Raise 3 - 3 Minutes
Arise - 2 minutes 30 seconds

This, this, and maybe this as well.

When gaining exp is as fast as it is now, no one really cares how much exp they lose when they get KOed (at least I don't), and therefore it doesn't matter much which raise spell you use. If higher-tier raises reduced weakness, which raise spell you used on which player would become strategically relevant in hard fights, where you would use the best raise on the party member who needed to get back into action the fastest.

[Secondplanet]

and i bet that this will get implemented before summoners new avatars......

[Riggs]

Low in Priority ?? nice to see you think so little of your consumers complaints and while in it self heal is meaningless its allot more about reducing weakness, espically in timed events where it should be scrapped or reduced to 1 minute max

[DangerousCalled]

Nice to see my Suggestion Still a life ;)

Thank you Camate
and thanks to Development Team for take a deep looking on this :cool:

Please make our /heal command more usefull , not just only heal HP/MP
Make it Annulment some bad Status (as long we /heal for long time as 3 min)
like a long Paralyze , Silence , Curse , Gravity , Blind ...
ofc some bad can't Annulment by /heal like: Virus , Poison/Bio/Dia or any DoT type , Petrify and Sleep.

its really helpfull for solo player specially from Curse of Ghost mobs its take Long time to wear off.

Make us Really "WE WANT TO USE /heal AGAIN" :o

[xbobx]

Hello!

Sorry to necrobump this thread, but I wanted to pass along some information reading /heal.

As battle frequency is becoming faster, we recognize that there is not enough time to take a knee and rest like before. With that said, we feel that it’s about time to make some adjustments to /heal. While this is somewhat low in priority, the Development Team will be looking into this when they have the opportunity.

Translation, the 2 developers on staff will have to schedule the 1 hour required to make a simple change 2 years from now.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

They've already proven they can adjust the timers. Go die in besieged and you'll see it for yourself.