Give full exp regardless of party size outside of abyssea

[Eadieni]

Nobody is grouping outside of abyssea (to be fair, some are, but its very minimal) and it's kind of well, sad. The game is so vast and incredible.
Perhaps the key to fixing this is to remove the EXP reduction for additional party members outside of abyssea. So that, an even match gives 100 EXP to all 6 players, to all 18. Yes, it sounds broken on the front, but does that really change things now that abyssea is what it is?

I don't see anything wrong with a party of 12 getting 500 exp a kill, with exp chains, in Qufim. All they have to do is make it based on the exp of the highest level of the party, so it still forces a level sync. There's also no farming TEs or crap outside of abyssea, and this could be a better leveling avenue than abyssea without having people go as keys. You could keep your skills capped in a group that starts in qufim, and ends in garliage.

This also opens up dungeon exploration as a party, because right now people stay in 1 camp usually, but with 12+ people in a party, standing in 1 spot wouldn't give enough exp, but you'd be able to blaze through crawlers nest and probably have a good time doing it.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You can solo now, it's what everyone wanted. Be happy.

[Eadieni]

I don't play an MMO to play solo. If that's what you want to do, then be happy and do it. I enjoy grouping, but it's near impossible unless your friends are on unless you want to power level in abyssea. I play weird hours so my friends aren't always on. Sure, if I log in at 8pm everyone is online, but if I come back from a bar at 3am I won't see hardly anyone online I hang out with.

[Martinius]

i don't necessarily see a flaw in this argument other than the fact that i can't think of many non-abyssea camps that have enough mobs to support a full alliance. qufim is gonna have too much level variance when roaming... could do yuhtunga/yhoator probably.

i'd rather they took the "leveling only once" restriction from MMM.

[RAIST]

WHAT??!!

Are you serious? Your XP just got doubled. They already have a mechanic for an xp bonus if you are in a low-man party on top of that....

Someone, please close this thread before my head explodes....

Raist

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I don't play an MMO to play solo.Yes. That's why it's MULTI. lol
We don't want FFXI to become WoW where everyone is just playing with themselves.

[Eadieni]

The purpose of the idea is that it's an abyssea alternative. Without something like this, all parties will be in those zones really. (I say all as in, the vast majority, not 100% total all).

So theres double exp, yay. You can get 400 a kill with 6 people... ok that's nice. It doesn't compare to 660 EXP a kill, every 5-10 seconds, with random exp chests giving 1500, and dominion giving 4k+ every 5 kills.

With 12 people you could kill at a similar pace to abyssea, and get maybe 500+ exp a kill with no exp chests and no dominion, but no EXP buildup either. Like, no starting at 30-100 and building up to 660.

Think about the exp camps that would open up - Dungeons. They have near endless # of mobs in close distance. Temple of Uggalepih grind party? Sure, it's not abyssea, but it'd become an option. Some people still really like the old game, and more people would. It's not an option to level from 50 to 90 outside of abyssea because, unless you -only- group with friends, there just won't be a party for you.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

With 12 people you could kill at a similar pace to abyssea, and get maybe 500+ exp a kill with no exp chests and no dominion, but no EXP buildup either. Like, no starting at 30-100 and building up to 660.No, because you'd have nothing to chain.

[RAIST]

No, because you'd have nothing to chain.

|True Strike|

You have to BUILD to that 500+ xp/kill in abyssea btw and not kill anything but the same mobs. For many (depending on level and zone status) you start at 0 xp/kill. And sometimes you can't cap out the xp/kill if the Martello is in a bad state.

Outside abyssea, the base xp rate is constant. An even match is always 200 xp now, modded by things like Signet/Sanction and party size, Chain Length, and Experience Points bands. Chain kills have no restriction other than the time between kills of EM+ challenge, and have a cap on xp per kill--you can cap that most the time in just 5 kills versus dozens of mobs in Abyssea.

Couple all that with the fact that FOV XP bonus is now unrestricted (remember, until recently, you could only get that free xp once per game day). If you choose the right target and area, you can solo roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of your TNL xp in roughly an hour in some cases, worst case 1/8 at higher levels. In the early levels, you can virtually get one level per page at times.

And you only need 30 levels to get the chance to start taking advantage of Abyssea. I could solo from a new job to dunes in one evening years ago... with FOV, can probly make it all the way to qufim now. Just how fast do you want it to be for heavens sake?

Raist

[Kirana]

Full alliance exp pts are never a good idea, even in abyssea currently. All it does is give half the members an excuse to go afk because you don't NEED a full alliance. You are almost always better off with a small group of competent players who know how to effectively work together, instead of the 18-man mob mentality.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Full alliance exp pts are never a good idea, even in abyssea currently. All it does is give half the members an excuse to go afk because you don't NEED a full alliance. You are almost always better off with a small group of competent players who know how to effectively work together, instead of the 18-man mob mentality.Back in day(That's old man speak for a long time ago.), we'd go into Shakrami with an alliance of 10 and kill the worms at lvl10. People just don't want to build alliances and previously @75, there realy wasn't anything high enough to do that on, so alliances were seen as a bad thing.

[svengalis]

The purpose of the idea is that it's an abyssea alternative. Without something like this, all parties will be in those zones really. (I say all as in, the vast majority, not 100% total all).

So theres double exp, yay. You can get 400 a kill with 6 people... ok that's nice. It doesn't compare to 660 EXP a kill, every 5-10 seconds, with random exp chests giving 1500, and dominion giving 4k+ every 5 kills.

With 12 people you could kill at a similar pace to abyssea, and get maybe 500+ exp a kill with no exp chests and no dominion, but no EXP buildup either. Like, no starting at 30-100 and building up to 660.

Think about the exp camps that would open up - Dungeons. They have near endless # of mobs in close distance. Temple of Uggalepih grind party? Sure, it's not abyssea, but it'd become an option. Some people still really like the old game, and more people would. It's not an option to level from 50 to 90 outside of abyssea because, unless you -only- group with friends, there just won't be a party for you.

Could work in theory if it didn't take so long to build alliances then travel. If we could warp anywhere we wanted to like in FF XIV this would be more ideal but with the way the game is setup I don't see this working outside of Qufim island and maybe the dunes.

[Linh]

I support OP's idea.

There should also be a lot more Fields of Valor books, so I don't have to run all the way back over there.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I support OP's idea.

There should also be a lot more Fields of Valor books, so I don't have to run all the way back over there.They wouldn't have to go that far, just move the existing ones to reasonable places.

[RAIST]

have to remember though, most of the old xp camps would not support that large a party and maintain a high kill rate. Two normal parties on one beach in Dunes could virtually kill the chain 5 periodically, and making it reset--especially if one party had a PL. That was with just 6 people on each end of the beach. Double that to a single party of 12, and you have to run up and down the length of the beach... and you will probly run into the same problem.

There is a limited list of areas where you could be sure to keep a chain 5 going with an alliance, as you are going to need to have a large number of consistent EM+ mobs close together that you can kill quickly and have them repop in time that you don't have to stop pulling them. If they were to implement something like this and people did actually go for it--those camps would be overrun easily--to support more than one large group in an area, you would need about 30 mobs there. It would be like early TAU all over again... <bleh>.

If you really think about it... this is what Abyssea is really--30 mobs close buy that a decent size or leveled/geared group can cut thorugh quickly. It just has the mechanic with the lights and the same mob restriction to build the chain instead of it being EM+ mobs that you have to kill within a certain time limit of previous kill to keep the chain going.

I think it's only fair that people have to pay their dues for a couple days to get to 30 before they gain access to this wonderful battlefield first. Gives them a feel for the core game mechanics first, then it gives them the easy mode.

Raist

[Linh]

...Two normal parties on one beach in Dunes could virtually kill the chain 5 periodically, and making it reset--especially if one party had a PL...

Fancy scripting would solve this. If the mobs are being defeated quickly, they respawn quickly. If they are being defeated slowly (traditional 6 man party), they respawn slower. This is already being done with Abyssea.

I don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds.

I mean, that's fucking brilliant when SE implemented that idea for Abyssea; I never would've thought of it. Can only manage to get together a 6-man? You can still exp! Got an 18-man together? You can still exp!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Fancy scripting would solve this.Go with the flow.
Repeat after me.
PS2 limitation!

[Linh]

...PS2 limitation!

Implemented in Abyssea.

[RAIST]

I don't see why we can't have the best of both worlds.

Probably because SE won't see it as necessary. When you can get a job into abbyssea within a week's time (playing casually, much faster if you are driven), and then get it to 90 in one weekend (again casually, 1 day if you push it). I don't think they would be willing to focus on the code changes for it. Sort of the old "It ain't broke, don't try to fix it" mentality.

I mean, you can solo to level 17 right outside your home nation, go halfway to Jueno (stop at pashhow/meriph/jugner outposts) and get to around 22, then get to 32 right outside Jueno, then go to abyssea and hit 90. It's pretty darn easy as is right now.

Raist

[Linh]

Probably because SE won't see it as necessary....

It is merely one other idea to have people level *outside* of Abyssea. Raising the level cap to enter Abyssea doesn't have the be the only idea.

The other idea which I would most like to see implemented is my own personal one of a fully "intuitive" and "immersed" leveling system.

Instead of *only* killing nameless mobs over and over again for exp, you can go out and participate in "events" that happen all over the virtual world. Selbina being attacked by pirates? High(-ish) levels to the rescue! Pirates set a house on fire but the high levels too busy fending them off? Time for a low level mage to cast *water on the house* to put it out! After the invasion has been repelled, everyone gets exp.

Not just Selbina, not just White Gate, the *entire world* should be filled with this "immersed leveling".

Killing mobs senselessly over and over again does give a great sense of satisfaction, so again, I don't see why my idea could not also co-exist with that too.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Raising the level cap to enter Abyssea doesn't have the be the only idea.This was brought up A LOT before the last major update. If they didn't change it then, they're more then like not going to change it later.
Not just Selbina, not just White Gate, the *entire world* should be filled with this "immersed leveling".The entire world is not abyssea.

[Alhanelem]

Full alliance exp pts are never a good idea, even in abyssea currently. All it does is give half the members an excuse to go afk because you don't NEED a full alliance.If you *don't* have afk people, you can get way more EXP- just have no more than 3 people per mob. No problem.

[Linh]

...The entire world is not abyssea.

Right. Which is why I suggested the ideas I did. I consider it akin to what the actual game developers were probably thinking when they created so much varied end game.

Before the advent of Abyssea, all other endgame were capped at 75. So if all endgame served the same purpose (to have fun), why did they keep on inventing new ones (Einherjar etc)? Variety is the spice of life, right?

EDIT: Made my post less wordy...

[Harpalina]

Instead of *only* killing nameless mobs over and over again for exp, you can go out and participate in "events" that happen all over the virtual world. Selbina being attacked by pirates? High(-ish) levels to the rescue! Pirates set a house on fire but the high levels too busy fending them off? Time for a low level mage to cast *water on the house* to put it out! After the invasion has been repelled, everyone gets exp.

Not just Selbina, not just White Gate, the *entire world* should be filled with this "immersed leveling".

Killing mobs senselessly over and over again does give a great sense of satisfaction, so again, I don't see why my idea could not also co-exist with that too.

Interesting idea. Had this been 5 years ago, when we had a study flow of noobs in the starter cities, I would say, "Hell no." because that would just kill off all the noobs in rapid succession with nowhere to turn except for maybe their Mog Houses. But, since I rarely see LV ~10ish with no SJ (unless you count mules) in the starter cities, I would be down for that kind of idea. But, it kind of interrupts ones' 'quiet' time, if they wanna craft or fish in peace and suddenly, mayhem and chaos breaks out lol.

[RAIST]

wasn't garrison kind of along the lines of this. Forget if we got a chunk of xp at the end of it...was sooooo long ago when I used to get dragged off for those.

Raist

[Harpalina]

I've never had the [dis?]pleasure of participating in a Garrison. I've always wanted to try one...same thing with Expeditionary Force. It was hard to get a group together for either one of those. I've done Ballista many times, and that's become almost obsolete.

[Linh]

Holy cow I forgot about Garrison and EF.

They should make Garrison and EF events that any player can just "stumble" upon or timed, like Campaign battles starting.

Expand Garrison and EF events to all areas like Rabao, Mhaura, etc. Make the NPCs more immersive when it happens, like running around scared. Give a substantial exp reward for people who participate.

[Rambus]

It is merely one other idea to have people level *outside* of Abyssea. Raising the level cap to enter Abyssea doesn't have the be the only idea.

The other idea which I would most like to see implemented is my own personal one of a fully "intuitive" and "immersed" leveling system.

Instead of *only* killing nameless mobs over and over again for exp, you can go out and participate in "events" that happen all over the virtual world. Selbina being attacked by pirates? High(-ish) levels to the rescue! Pirates set a house on fire but the high levels too busy fending them off? Time for a low level mage to cast *water on the house* to put it out! After the invasion has been repelled, everyone gets exp.

Not just Selbina, not just White Gate, the *entire world* should be filled with this "immersed leveling".

Killing mobs senselessly over and over again does give a great sense of satisfaction, so again, I don't see why my idea could not also co-exist with that too.

Thats one point I find interesting in WoW, love to have it here

[Malamasala]

Full alliance exp pts are never a good idea, even in abyssea currently. All it does is give half the members an excuse to go afk because you don't NEED a full alliance. You are almost always better off with a small group of competent players who know how to effectively work together, instead of the 18-man mob mentality.

6 man exp parties is never a good idea, because you can't invite situational jobs when all spots must have crucial best jobs.

[Eadieni]

Well what's a better idea than to remove the EXP reduction based on party size? For the purpose of encouraging groups outside abyssea.
"Go Solo" is not an option, if thats your reply you should just ... hmm what's a good internet meme "Go die in a fire".

In abyssea there are what, 9 zones, and only a few exp camps are used in each one because of the mob variety - IE most people stick to Bluffalos, and the Vision zones are mostly dominated by soloers or small parties grinding NMs.

There are enough exp camps in the world for everyone to be happy, and since abyssea already raised the leveling expectations, it might as well be applied to the rest of the world. Why would anyone -want- to level outside abyssea from 30 to 90?
Ok, perhaps it doesn't give full exp with an alliance, but if with 6 people you got the same exp as if you solo'd the mob, you wouldn't have to only kill incredibly toughs at a slow pace to get decent exp.

I bet most of you forgot how slow leveling is without your Atmas.

[RAIST]

Actually, it's not as bad as you make it out to be now. I got 5 levels a week just working on trials by doing FoV pages on some of them (gotta love Ro' Maeve and Sky... hehehe)--and that was from 80 to 85. Even prior to the last xp boost, it was only taking a couple weeks to grind away from 60-63 to 75 outside of abyssea. By the time I skilled up axes, unlocked latent on Pick of Trials, and killed the tree sapling to unlock decimation...I was almost a level 80 WAR.

XP is just plain broken now in comparison to the history of this game. Please... just leave it be.

Raist

[Eadieni]

You can quit being a tool raist, "5 levels in a week" try 60 levels in 1 day in Abyssea. In 1 24 hour period I went from 30 to 90 and got 20 merits.

And again, what your doing is SOLOING.
The purpose of this thread is to encourage GROUPING OUTSIDE OF ABYSSEA. God you've been trolling the whole thread.

[Dauntless]

You can quit being a tool raist, "5 levels in a week" try 60 levels in 1 day in Abyssea. In 1 24 hour period I went from 30 to 90 and got 20 merits.

And again, what your doing is SOLOING.
The purpose of this thread is to encourage GROUPING OUTSIDE OF ABYSSEA. God you've been trolling the whole thread.

You got to it before I did.

I couldn't help but notice Raist trolling every Abyssea thread. I know too many people who go 30-70 in 5-6 hours in Abyssea and you claim this would be the update that breaks the game? Please tell me you are joking.

[Eadieni]

Yeah Abyssea is here, we have to deal with it. It changed the rules of the game. It also brought back record # of FFXI players and made the game a lot of fun, taking it away would probably cause a mass exodus to Rift or FFXIV at this point in the games life.

So, we either leave the rest of the game to decay, or implement -something- to bring some life back into it. If my solution of "remove the division of exp, like in abyssea" won't work, lets hear your ideas. "Leave things exactly the same" doesn't work now that Abyssea is here, and in 2011, with FFXIV already released and turning into a good game (it is like 7 months later, was bound to happen)

[RAIST]

not trolling.. just stating that it's doable quickly even just solo (would think you would realize that in party it's markedly faster, the big motivator for forming parties in the first place). Even as just a Duo it's faster. You kill mobs faster with higher chains netting more xp/hour. Sorry I didn't lay it out like that.. figured it would be a given that you get faster xp in a group vs. solo.

Here's a real-life example for you. Had a friend that could only get on from roughly 8-11 about 5 days a week. He had his BRD ready for abyssea in just one week of game play, and most of that time was low-man partying using FOV. A week later, through a mix of normal xp parties and a mix of Abyssea time, he hit 87.

That's not a theoretical situation, and it wasn't full leeching. We hunted NM's, completed his AF, did Bastion, did Pink Birds in and out of level synchs, farmed his scrolls in SSG and such with my SMN. He was out of game the last 2 weeks due to RL issues, otherwise he would have hit 90 with us just before the servers went down. Total time from 1-90 would have been <3 weeks of play time, not completely solo, nearly all scrolls farmed, AF competed along the way, and not completely leeched (some of it was, but not a whole lot of it).

No matter how you slice it up... solo, duo, 6 man, alliance, normal/leeching xp in and out of abyssea--Experience Points just come too easy now and really doesn't need a boost.

Giving more XP outside of abbysea will have very minimal impact on the issue anyway. People don't go there JUST because the xp is high. They also go there because they don't really have to do anything, and there are are various side benefits to it (AF feet, cruor, skillups, build up time to hunt NM's later for seals/coins/jewels/cards/stones/abyssites/zone wins JSE armors). Until there is a set of rewards in ADDITION to the xp available outside of abyssea, people are just going to lean more towards time in Abyssea. It is simply the hot new go-to zone for all the goodies atm.

Raist

[Eadieni]

People get abyssea fatigue. It can be lame seeing no weather changes and stuff.