NIN combinations

[vixin]

Just want to know what most people like subing with thier nin and some combinations, job traits, and abilities that make their job more personal unique. feel free to post anything and no this isnt a troll i'm just curious what people come up with in their own free time.

[wish12oz]

WAR

It's cookie cutter because it's the best. If you sub anything else you're doing it wrong.

[Bulrogg]

Depending on what (event/quest) you're doing in the game there are more options than just the 'cookie cutter' /war.

*in before "just level xxx job" and stop doing it wrong.*

For most things in game I am either /war or /dnc; on occasion /sam and /thf even. Just depends on what I'm (we're) getting into.

[vixin]

I like your Bulrogg my favorite support role jobs for nin are by far blu and sam. Blue mage giving a wide selection of traits and haste with that nice coccon when things go thru shadows "physical aoe". Samurai with nice occ 2-4 attack off hand hitting up store tp in place for double attack armor yeilds nice results.

[Bulrogg]

I haven't tried NIN/blu, but I have gone out /rdm while working on kills for magian trials. I had my NPC out leveling it too and it made for a nice /sub.

[vixin]

Indeed i have done rdm as a sub with san spells in VW they are pretty nice you get magic attack bonus 2 trait and self haste to lower yoru recast spells with fast cast2 combo.

[wish12oz]

Depending on what (event/quest) you're doing in the game there are more options than just the 'cookie cutter' /war.

There actually isn't any instance where you should be playing NIN where it's correct to sub anything other than WAR. Unless of course you like being inefficient and terrible at FFXI.


*in before "just level xxx job" and stop doing it wrong.*

It's funny you say this since it's the right answer.


For most things in game I am either /war or /dnc; on occasion /sam and /thf even. Just depends on what I'm (we're) getting into.

If you need TH play THF. Anything else you could gain from a sub other than WAR is stupid. /DNC? Really? What for? a WHM or RDM or SCH or BRD mule/friend does more than /dnc, and it even lets you use the better DD sub, WAR, so you can do whatever it is your were doing better and faster.


I like your Bulrogg my favorite support role jobs for nin are by far blu and sam. Blue mage giving a wide selection of traits and haste with that nice coccon when things go thru shadows "physical aoe".

BLU and SAM both give less than WAR sub from a damage dealing perspective, which is all that matters for a good ninjas subjob. It's especially funny that you would waste so much time keeping cocoon up instead of just having a PDT set. Cocoon is just a defense buff anyway, which is basically useless, and if it mattered at all guess what- /WAR has defender you could use when your shadows go down and ississikinini whatever isn't up.


Samurai with nice occ 2-4 attack off hand hitting up store tp in place for double attack armor yeilds nice results.

lol.....
Real Katanas gain TP just as fast/faster than an oat 2-4 katana because of the way dual wield lowers TP gain.
Also, 15 stp from /sam is basically reducing the attack rounds required to hit 100 tp by 1, but guess what, the 10% DA from /war does exactly the same thing, except you gain the damage from 2 extra attacks instead of just gaining the TP from them. /WAR also gives you attack bonus JTs and berserk, but whatever, I doubt you listen to any of this anyway.


Indeed i have done rdm as a sub with san spells in VW they are pretty nice you get magic attack bonus 2 trait and self haste to lower yoru recast spells with fast cast2 combo.

Meleeing yields more damage than casting crappy spells no matter what you do.
If your mages aren't hasting you in VW, you should tell them to quit sucking and do it.
Fast cast isn't useful because you shouldn't be casting unless it's for a proc that the BLMs or BLUs will call out for you.

[Bulrogg]

Off-topic:

If all you're going to do is criticize the way others play the game, just leave the thread alone.

You can type till you're blue in the face but we know there's more than one way to skin a coeurl.

If it offends you that we enjoy a different style of playing, I apologize that you weren't taught as a child how to play well with others. But there's no need to make rude and harassing post about those that choose a different method of play.


On-topic:

I haven't done much VW outside of a few upgrades here and there but will keep an open mind. When teaming up for events, I usually ask the leader or man-at-arms if there is a /sub that they prefer or find useful in that campaign.

[wish12oz]

Off-topic:

If all you're going to do is criticize the way others play the game, just leave the thread alone.

And if all you're going to do is spew incorrect information, you can leave the thread alone too. Are you going to argue against any of my points or simply stick the the ITS MY 12.95 A MONTH I'LL DO WHAT I WANT LEAVE ME ALONE!!! come back?


You can type till you're blue in the face but we know there's more than one way to skin a coeurl.

Ya, but just like IRL, there's a proper way to skin any animal and thousands of horrible incorrect ways to do it.


If it offends you that we enjoy a different style of playing, I apologize that you weren't taught as a child how to play well with others. But there's no need to make rude and harassing post about those that choose a different method of play.

Telling people how it is, is not insulting, rude or harassing. I didn't call you a moron or stupid or any such thing. I simply pointed out that what you were doing is wrong. And I wouldn't have a problem with the things you say at all, as long as you said how inefficient and horrible the things you're doing happen to be. Say that, and say that your SJ combinations are only for fun, and I won't need to post here to correct your misinformation anymore. I'm sorry you never learned when someone is insulting you or telling you the honest truth when you were a child, but you should really try and learn the difference.



On-topic:

I haven't done much VW outside of a few upgrades here and there but will keep an open mind. When teaming up for events, I usually ask the leader or man-at-arms if there is a /sub that they prefer or find useful in that campaign.

And I'm sure they always say WAR, or something specifically for a proc it gives that no one else is covering.

[Economizer]

Just want to know what most people like subing with thier nin and some combinations, job traits, and abilities that make their job more personal unique.

Unique is usually stupid; that is to say, people trying to be unique or calling for things to be unique screw over the rest of us who want a game that is actually unique in that you can have one character and do it all. People afraid of the "cookie cutter" are the reason we have merit categories that force you to choose between being able to goof off on your favorite class and being good at the class everyone asks you to come to events as.

That said, /WAR, despite being an incredibly powerful job combination isn't the only way to do it. You might as well complain if someone is having fun with their mage job and meleeing it up or someone is having fun with some other job with an unusual build, or that someone is playing it safe with a more healing friendly build.

Warrior sub is great for holding hate because it pumps out more damage, especially on harder mobs, this sub should probably be your default in party play unless you have a good reason not to (additionally it adds several procs in Abyssea, especially important if you are missing a WAR). On easier mobs that you might want to solo, Dancer sub can be extremely helpful for the self-healing, and as an added bonus you get access to a few hybrid abilities. Red Mage sub has Fast Cast and Magic Attack Bonus if you want to play more Ninjutsu based, while having a few things for more solo-oriented play, although this is an interesting combination if you are trying to hold hate on a flying monster using Ninjustsu nukes. Dark Knight gives easy access to Stun while having a few melee related buffs (there are mobs that you might wish to Stun, and it is far better to have yourself backing up your stunners in a lowman with Stuns then expecting your healer to not only use a vastly inferior sub but also to be focusing on Stuns rather then healing). There are all cases where these can more useful then a bit of extra melee damage, however you have to thing about the situation carefully before deciding. Generally however, if you are in a party, you can't go wrong with Warrior as a sub, it does what a ninja is usually expected to do.

[Bulrogg]

Dark Knight gives easy access to Stun while having a few melee related buffs (there are mobs that you might wish to Stun, and it is far better to have yourself backing up your stunners in a lowman with Stuns then expecting your healer to not only use a vastly inferior sub but also to be focusing on Stuns rather then healing).

One of my favorite /subs before the limit break 75+. It made for an interesting way of maintaing hate on those big nastys. Althought it's not called for much anymore, I have seen a few people utilize it when low-man'ing. That being said, I would not be against seeing it's usefulness come up in up coming content.

[vixin]

well for starters i created this post so people could enjoy the game and get some opinions on how they enjoy it the most, you on the other hand have all the time to nit pick other 's and harass people on these forms. I dont mean to crumble your would but isnt there anything you can do with all yrou free time seeing as you must have no job or any sort of social life other than putting people down on online gaming fourms. Please then do it else where i dont know what else to tell you but yeah i'll use sange and yes i have kikoku over yoru Rusty'nagi any day.



p.s on a side not but am i the only when they see "WishTittybaby" post quoting everyone and their mom, end up just nto even reading the first three words already assuming his muffin is being dry like usual lol?

[wish12oz]

Warrior sub is great for holding hate because it pumps out more damage, especially on harder mobs, this sub should probably be your default in party play unless you have a good reason not to (additionally it adds several procs in Abyssea, especially important if you are missing a WAR).

Good point, WAR is the best.


On easier mobs that you might want to solo, Dancer sub can be extremely helpful for the self-healing, and as an added bonus you get access to a few hybrid abilities.

Mage friend/mule is better, subbing DNC is doing it wrong.


Red Mage sub has Fast Cast and Magic Attack Bonus if you want to play more Ninjutsu based,

If you want to do magic damage switch to RDM, BLM or SCH


while having a few things for more solo-oriented play,

RDM is far superior than NIN if you want to solo magic stuff to death, quit being foolish.


although this is an interesting combination if you are trying to hold hate on a flying monster using Ninjustsu nukes.

If it flys and it matters your elemental damage spells wont be enough damage to hold hate no matter what gear or sub you're using unless no one else is doing anything.


Dark Knight gives easy access to Stun while having a few melee related buffs (there are mobs that you might wish to Stun, and it is far better to have yourself backing up your stunners in a lowman with Stuns then expecting your healer to not only use a vastly inferior sub but also to be focusing on Stuns rather then healing).

Learn to tank so you take less damage and your mages don't have to worry about you and they will have plenty of time to stun. I've never had a problem tanking, main healing and main stunning on NIN+WHM. And seriously.....? BLM is the preferred sub so you can D2 yourself when you're done with whatever you're doing.


There are all cases where these can more useful then a bit of extra melee damage, however you have to thing about the situation carefully before deciding. Generally however, if you are in a party, you can't go wrong with Warrior as a sub, it does what a ninja is usually expected to do.

There are situations where other subs can be useful, but all these situations arise due to bad play style/no friends/no mule.

[wish12oz]

One of my favorite /subs before the limit break 75+. It made for an interesting way of maintaing hate on those big nastys. Althought it's not called for much anymore, I have seen a few people utilize it when low-man'ing. That being said, I would not be against seeing it's usefulness come up in up coming content.

Not sure how I missed this with my earlier post, but to respond, /drk isn't useful anymore because the hate for every spell it gives that use to be used to keep hate capped was nerfed, severely. The only exception is stun, all the other spells give basically 0 hate now.

[Savlyn]

Good point, WAR is the best.
This is an opinion. There are other subs and different ways to play NIN other than just pure damage. Just because it is how you play doesn't mean everyone has too.


Mage friend/mule is better, subbing DNC is doing it wrong.
People do solo things without "mage/friend/mules". You know that right? You've said "Just bring a mage" at least three times now. That's not always possible or always needed. If you have a mule, good for you. Not everyone does. But then I guess we're "doin it wrong", huh?




If you want to do magic damage switch to RDM, BLM or SCH

Again, there are other ways to play NIN rather than just melee DD. And there are situations where its useful. Hell, its even kind of fun to use other aspects of a job rather than just one. NIN used to be a very versatile job that could do a lot, but I guess now all it is is DD.




RDM is far superior than NIN if you want to solo magic stuff to death, quit being foolish. Again, not everyone has RDM. And the reason NIN has elemental magic is so that people can use it if they want. Are you really just here to tell everyone NIN is DD onry?



There are situations where other subs can be useful, but all these situations arise due to bad play style/no friends/no mule.
I didn't realize that as soon as you needed to do something, all of your mage friends drop what they're doing and help you. Especially if it COULD be soloed as NIN/DNC. And really, the mule thing shouldn't even be mentioned. If you want to go that route and say you're superior because you have a mule to dual box with, by all means, pay double what I do. People without mules can do all of the same stuff if they learn to play without thinking only one way. NIN/DNC would say you $13 a month; but that's your money. Do with it as you will, just don't think everyone else is doing it wrong by not playing the same as you.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You really shouldn't feed them.

[Tinuviel]

Viewing the choice of subjob in terms of DD potential is irrelevant to this thread. People saying "/war only" are quite outdated or just not intelligent. sure, nin/war is the best option for DD and tanking, but honestly, if you want to DD or tank then dont use nin. sam mnk drk war are all better jobs at both damage and several jobs can tank better for 90% of the content out there. who has ever seen a nin tank or nin DD in voidwatch? nin will die from aoe as fast as any other job, and you'll never see a nin outparse the 2hander jobs. nins are basically a mage in VW, and that should tell you everything about nin/war combo in today's FFXI.

I personally use nin/dnc as much as anything. nin/dnc is what you would use in dynamis farming, and its probably the best soloing combo. violent flourish is also a very useful stun capability that i make use of in all sorts of fights.

other fun subs would be /sch, /rdm or /blu. sch sj is always interesting because you can use arts to bump up your magic skills, allowing for use of sleep etc. nevertheless, all these mage subs are just fun and not useful in any group events.

[vixin]

I was dissapointed when SE added lv 80 shurikens that stack to only 12... koga shurikens which stack to 99 and have 8 more base dmg and 10 range attack opposed to 10 range accuracy. SE if you wanted to improve nin shurikens could of at least gave better level ones. /sadface

[wish12oz]

Viewing the choice of subjob in terms of DD potential is irrelevant to this thread. People saying "/war only" are quite outdated or just not intelligent. sure, nin/war is the best option for DD and tanking, but honestly, if you want to DD or tank then dont use nin. sam mnk drk war are all better jobs at both damage and several jobs can tank better for 90% of the content out there. who has ever seen a nin tank or nin DD in voidwatch? nin will die from aoe as fast as any other job, and you'll never see a nin outparse the 2hander jobs. nins are basically a mage in VW, and that should tell you everything about nin/war combo in today's FFXI.

It's only a backline mage crap job if you resign it to be. A good ninja can and will out perform someone who is terrible but on a "superior job." I do it all the time when I play NIN in VW, even though I usually avoid it. And damage potential is all that matters to this thread, because that's basically all NIN has. It's a DD with slightly higher survivability than others due to shadows. That's it.


I personally use nin/dnc as much as anything. nin/dnc is what you would use in dynamis farming, and its probably the best soloing combo. violent flourish is also a very useful stun capability that i make use of in all sorts of fights.

It's nice you like to waste your time in dynamis every day not getting as much money as people playing BST or THF or something else good, but you probably shouldn't try to brag about it.


other fun subs would be /sch, /rdm or /blu. sch sj is always interesting because you can use arts to bump up your magic skills, allowing for use of sleep etc. nevertheless, all these mage subs are just fun and not useful in any group events.

Sleep spells: Totally more useful than evasion gear, PDT gear and being smart enough to not aggro more mobs than you can handle.


You really shouldn't feed them.

I know, I should really stop replying to these people, but I keep thinking to myself "What if someone who doesn't know any better comes in here and see's this?" I at least should try and put the correct information out there.


This is an opinion. There are other subs and different ways to play NIN other than just pure damage. Just because it is how you play doesn't mean everyone has too.

The only reason to play ninja is for slightly higher survivability in some aspects while still keeping damage potential high, for weak content. The only other reason to be on it is for procs in VW, in which case you should still be trying to do your best to make sure the monster dies.


People do solo things without "mage/friend/mules". You know that right? You've said "Just bring a mage" at least three times now. That's not always possible or always needed. If you have a mule, good for you. Not everyone does. But then I guess we're "doin it wrong", huh?

I'm sorry you can't make friends in an MMO.


Again, there are other ways to play NIN rather than just melee DD. And there are situations where its useful. Hell, its even kind of fun to use other aspects of a job rather than just one. NIN used to be a very versatile job that could do a lot, but I guess now all it is is DD.

There was never any way to play NIN other than as a DD, except for the very, very short period of time nin/drk was a better tank than pld/nin. Your magic damage is terrible, you don't have refresh, you can't cure, what the heck else are you going to do?


Again, not everyone has RDM. And the reason NIN has elemental magic is so that people can use it if they want. Are you really just here to tell everyone NIN is DD onry?

Elemental wheel is for damage output at lvl 40-55~ At these levels it is a great way to do lots of damage and was instrumental in keeping hate on the job to tank effectively. Once you get past 60, it's not worth the gil/inventory to attempt to use it for damage purposes. If you don't like it, that's just to bad, because its the way it is. Want to do magic damage? Go level a mage. Until it is adjusted to not be crap, it's for procs only.


I didn't realize that as soon as you needed to do something, all of your mage friends drop what they're doing and help you. Especially if it COULD be soloed as NIN/DNC. And really, the mule thing shouldn't even be mentioned. If you want to go that route and say you're superior because you have a mule to dual box with, by all means, pay double what I do. People without mules can do all of the same stuff if they learn to play without thinking only one way. NIN/DNC would say you $13 a month; but that's your money. Do with it as you will, just don't think everyone else is doing it wrong by not playing the same as you.

If you make friends with someone, and show them that you are willing to drop what you're doing to go help them, they will do this in return. I know friendship can be a hard concept for some people to understand, but I assure you, that is how it actually works.

[Economizer]

Learn to tank so you take less damage and your mages don't have to worry about you and they will have plenty of time to stun. I've never had a problem tanking, main healing and main stunning on NIN+WHM. And seriously.....? BLM is the preferred sub so you can D2 yourself when you're done with whatever you're doing.

Honestly, I don't care how much you think you know about Ninja, if you think BLM is the preferred sub for WHM for warps then I don't have to make the case that you are misinformed, you've already done it for me.

Any WHM worth their salt will be able to tell you what the best subjobs for backline healing are. Black Mage is not one of them. Warp items aren't expensive.

Of course, you might feel that there is a situation where it is better to use an inferior sub for one thing to do something else... in which case you agree with me that there are cases where using the best sub for one role is not always the best idea for players.

[Darwena]

I like Ninja99/ChuckNorris49. I dont need to voke cause mobs are paralized all the fight, I dont do Double attack, I do Quintuple atack 100% proc. taking a Brew lower my stat. Seriously you all wrong... Suport job should be /Chucknorris.










Before you answer, I'm kidding hihihi.
But now you mention some suport job:
-NIN/SMN (Carby can follow you)
-NIN/BRD you can sing youre favorite song
-NIN/PUP to entertain ppl in town

Still kidding... yeah sorry I'm not serious tonight. But I remember back in time, before Abyssea and the level caps was 75... NIN/RNG with gun or Suriken happy with sange... I remember also NIN/DRK for tanking in sky... I also remeber NIN/SAM when was time to unlock WS (and was seriously disapointed)... I feel nostalgic now ^^

Today NIN/WAR is mainly what I use now. most situation (even solo NM in tier I and II abyssea). Sometime I use /DNC just cause: the low man setup need me to stun move or I dont want to bother ppl when I farm/skill up parrying (yeah I know, I'm gimp... parrying just at 300 still need to work on it). Sometime I do NIN/BLM or /WHM just for warp/teleport when doing old school qst.

Oh and about elemental wheel today: I still use it when I need to keep hate and need to stop hiting/facing NM. I use the "dont remember the name" potion that boost magic ACC/Attck. I use it also on mob who use spike shield sometime...

Wish12oz: You right about NIN/WAR melee is best for NIN, but they are certain situation that need to adapt toward some other strategy, and the beauty of Ninja: you can adapt you're play for those situation. not always the optimal way, but can be fun to sometime. :)

[Luvbunny]

That's the beauty of this game, sub jobs are extremely flexible and it's up to us to use them to suit our play style. Certain subs are defacto for certain situations due to many years of testing, there is no questions about those certain subs and moot point trying to be "different". If you wanna tank, keep hate and deal good damage, warrior is one of those defacto sub jobs bar none, stop arguing. Otherwise there are many other sub jobs you can try and experiment for solo play or small groups set up where you don't have to be the main tank, or where you don't have dedicated healer or just want to play it outside the box. This game is extremely flexible and we should be able to play it how we want, as long as we are aware certain situation require you do certain things, and stop trying to argue since those methods have been tried and tested for us. Then again, teamwork and understanding of game mechanics is also something that will help to break the norm and let you play outside the box - hence you should have a few in game friends so you can experiments with different sub jobs.

[Savlyn]

I'm sorry you can't make friends in an MMO.

If you make friends with someone, and show them that you are willing to drop what you're doing to go help them, they will do this in return. I know friendship can be a hard concept for some people to understand, but I assure you, that is how it actually works.


He knows me so well D: It's amazing how much incredible insight can be gathered about someone's real life from a forum post. I have no friends ._. That's why I'm here. I can't believe all this time... I never knew what friendship was. I'll have to try my hand at it.

Who wants to be my friend? :D lol

[vixin]

He knows me so well D: It's amazing how much incredible insight can be gathered about someone's real life from a forum post. I have no friends ._. That's why I'm here. I can't believe all this time... I never knew what friendship was. I'll have to try my hand at it.

Who wants to be my friend? :D lol




I'll be your friend. Btw FF tactics sig i love that game was a master piece ;D

[wish12oz]

Honestly, I don't care how much you think you know about Ninja, if you think BLM is the preferred sub for WHM for warps then I don't have to make the case that you are misinformed, you've already done it for me.

Any WHM worth their salt will be able to tell you what the best subjobs for backline healing are. Black Mage is not one of them. Warp items aren't expensive.

Do your job tanking and mitigating damage well, and WHMs won't need much MP, meaning /rdm or /sch is useless, because that's what they offer, extra MP. Meanwhile, /BLM always offers inventory clogging free warps, and also stuns like a champ, looks like it's superior to me, you just need to not be bad at NIN. Warp items are not expensive, but they take up lots of room, room you shouldn't have if you decently gear your jobs. I'll drop those warp items for extra minnows for my favorite job, Fishercat, without thinking twice.


Of course, you might feel that there is a situation where it is better to use an inferior sub for one thing to do something else... in which case you agree with me that there are cases where using the best sub for one role is not always the best idea for players.



There are situations where other subs can be useful, but all these situations arise due to bad play style/no friends/no mule.

[Eric]

Do your job tanking and mitigating damage well, and WHMs won't need much MP, meaning /rdm or /sch is useless, because that's what they offer, extra MP. If you think that's the best each of those subjobs have to offer, then you need to shut up and talk about jobs you actually know shit about. "BLM has warp" is probably the most retarded argument for why BLM is a better subjob that I've ever heard.

[Llana_Virren]

Let me tell you all a story:

It was 2003, and I was fighting in a ~Lv.45 party. I was on RDM/war (my combo since the Dunes) and was tragically evened-out on dmg output with one of the WARs in our PT. The only people to out damage me was the 2nd WAR (unless I had to cast more due to an MP inefficient backline).

Cue some drama about how I "don't know how to play my job right" and the weak WAR got leader, and subsequently kicked me from the PT. So, within a year, I became the RDM that silenced the "immune to silence" sky gods, paralyzed the ice-based NMs, and pretty much fixed every fub some bone-headed DD committed by aggroing the wrong mob or forgetting how to keep mobs off the mages.

I also pissed off a lot of other RDM folk because I debuffed the mobs they couldn't (or because they were levelling RDM so they could get into end-game events when no one wanted loldrg, loldrk, or were told their WAR sucked) and didn't want to be shown that RDM can be more than an MP battery.

Now, I have never had anything against melee RDM (I used to be one, after all); and even though it is no longer part of my playstyle, I know that players who use "one subjob onry" are some of the worst and most inefficient players in the game. Why? Because if they can't get a specific setup, they won't do anything... because they only know how to play their job one way.

Now, fast forward to 2005, 2006, 2009, 2011, oh look, here it is in 2012, and as a prett-damned-good WHM, I can tell you that "/blm for D2" is the last thing on any good WHMs mind when it comes to subjobs. Of course, buying a warp cudgel or insta-scroll must be horribly inefficient and inventory-hogging, so I wouldn't expect any of my DDs to have one.

Oh, I forgot, any good mage will have 2-3x the gear a DD will. So when I go 74/80 on inventory and another 15/80 in sack, I don't think anyone here has a leg to stand on when they suggest I go /blm to make their lives easier. Maybe I shouldn't bother casting Stona on a DD who decided not to turn around during a Gaze? Placing high standards on yourself is one thing. But being a jerk who refuses to even entertain the idea of playing a job in an non-contemporary manner is rediculous. It's also uneducated (lol@sub-blm) and that kind of narrow vision is synonemous with the "JP-Onry" LFPs of yore.

I can't blame people who think that way: they simply don't know any better. And while you can educate ignorance, stupid lasts forever.

Just a final thought: "If you want D2, level BLM". Trololol?

[wish12oz]

QUICK bump a thread thats over a month old to try and convince people that the extra MP gained from /sch and /rdm is somehow usefulllll!!!!!!!11one11!!!!1
+1 inventory > more mp when you don't run out of mp anyway.

[Juilan]

I love nin/drk still, its one of the older subs... after raptor's mazurka and before the patch /brd was great for hate
One of my favorite combos was /rng for slug shots
/mnk is fun for weaker monsters using +2 legs from aby... counter stance tank

[Bulrogg]

/mnk is fun to play around with when just passing time. I like using Atmas: RR, GH and Roaring Laughter to toy around with as counterstance Ninja.

[vixin]

/rng with slug shot seems kinda cool would /cor with quick draw enchance our buffs or does that only work with cor as main?

[Llana_Virren]

QUICK bump a thread thats over a month old to try and convince people that the extra MP gained from /sch and /rdm is somehow usefulllll!!!!!!!11one11!!!!1
+1 inventory > more mp when you don't run out of mp anyway.

Who keeps liking your posts?

And who subs /rdm or /sch for MP, anyway?

[Juilan]

/rng with slug shot seems kinda cool would /cor with quick draw enchance our buffs or does that only work with cor as main?


The only thing you'd get from /cor is randomly getting the same R acc bonus from /rng

[vixin]

didnt know your scarasm lol you should of noted it cause i doubt anyone could tell.
/scarams off

[Eric]

scarams scarams

[wish12oz]

I like my scaramaed eggs with bacon and toast.

[saevel]

Who keeps liking your posts?

And who subs /rdm or /sch for MP, anyway?

Dude you don't know. Its so they can be a ...


Medical Ninja!

They got the cute pink outfit already.

[Arcon]

QUICK bump a thread thats over a month old to try and convince people that the extra MP gained from /sch and /rdm is somehow usefulllll!!!!!!!11one11!!!!1
+1 inventory > more mp when you don't run out of mp anyway.

When did you become the new Pchan? He's the only other person I've seen spew such bullshit before.


Who keeps liking your posts?

The mules that he's so fond of. Not only good for multiboxing but also for bumping your own e-cred.

[Darwena]

When did you become the new Pchan? He's the only other person I've seen spew such bullshit before.



The mules that he's so fond of. Not only good for multiboxing but also for bumping your own e-cred.

So far, Wish12oz is the rare one who post with good argument. Some ppl agree, some doesn't and some respond w/o Argument saying how bad he is w/o any good argument or prove of what they advance.

I like most of his post cause he give some good hint about optimize the job. Of course, for Role playing and such, he's pretty far away of the thing, but honestly, who care about RP on a forum. I'm looking for info about how to improve the way to play a job.

Back to topic: WAR is pretty much the only sub that improve NIN where they best at, and that melee. You can say anything elese about RP or solo or w/e. NIN/WAR is the setup for dealing DMG.

You can go NIN/RNG for Slug shot, but honestly, you better go with NIN/WAR for Shun or Hi instead for more accurate DMG. You will even save on bullets.

NIN/DNC is nice for soloing EP or if you need stun (I still prefer /DRK for that purpose).

NIN/DRK is my choice for when I need to stun a move from NM (i.e.: Apademak duo) cause you can still get a decent DMG output from that selection.

NIN/BLM or /WHM is pretty much only for quest when you need to teleport...

You can go earlier with /BST or /PUP for soloing at lower level but...

And about the RDM story: nice to know, but you just saying me that you do what a RDM is suposed to do: enfeebling and dispel move. (those who thing RDM is only a MP battery, well...).

[Arcon]

So far, Wish12oz is the rare one who post with good argument. Some ppl agree, some doesn't and some respond w/o Argument saying how bad he is w/o any good argument or prove of what they advance.

Keep telling yourself that, but telling other people to bring a mule or a friend is not a good argument. Wish12oz does not know what a game is or what people play for. If I can solo something, somehow, I will try to solo it. I don't care if it's not the most efficient way. The most efficient way would be to bring 18 people to Genbu. But would you do that these days? According to his logic, that's what you should do, because it will go faster and is thus more efficient and is thus the right way and everything else is wrong. And if you don't do it, you should make friends and suck less.

Also, all his arguments are paradoxical. He keeps saying that NIN's only purpose is to DD and if you want something else, you should level another job. However, NIN itself is a sucky DD, and is thus a bad choice for that particular scenario. So why come /WAR to boost NIN's DD capabilities when you could just as well switch to WAR/ (and level it first, if you don't have it already, as that was his argument)? That makes NIN itself useless and playing it is a waste of time, which is ironic as he seems to have it set as his main job on the forum display.

According to his reasoning there's only one goal in the game, which is to destroy everything as fast as possible, and that's the right thing to do, everything else is wrong. And if you use a job that isn't suited for it you're doing it wrong. That is miles away from a solid argument and is exactly what Pchan always says (word for word, actually, and with the same arrogance and sense of righteousness). He is imposing his (pretty childish and ridiculous) views of the game on everyone else, and he thinks he knows what's right and what's wrong. I have never cared about being efficient. I've solo killed NMs with Requiem kiting on BRD before. What would he say to that? Does he think I believe that was the "right" thing to do? I don't care about right or wrong, I wanna be as good as I can with what I want. If I wanna be a good NIN soloer, then that's what I'll be and if I have to sub DNC for it, then so be it. If I use a mule or ask a friend to help I'm cheating myself. And that's not what I want. If he can't follow that reasoning he's just displaying his lack of understanding of what other people care about, which is the epitome of narcissism.

[wish12oz]

Also, all his arguments are paradoxical. He keeps saying that NIN's only purpose is to DD and if you want something else, you should level another job. However, NIN itself is a sucky DD, and is thus a bad choice for that particular scenario. So why come /WAR to boost NIN's DD capabilities when you could just as well switch to WAR/ (and level it first, if you don't have it already, as that was his argument)? That makes NIN itself useless and playing it is a waste of time, which is ironic as he seems to have it set as his main job on the forum display.

OMG, you totally get it!
Wanna see a SS I just posted on BG?
http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/83846e4921303b9b361ad7a8856add19.jpg
It was in refference to me talking about how I just got a second Valkyrie breastplate, the only 2 on the whole server (for about 12 hours, Xdark managed to finally get one too, grats to him.

500~ more plates and both Ukons will be 99 as well.

EDIT::: But seriously, NIN is bad enough as it is, my WAR does 4x-5x the damage my NIN does, why gimp yourself further by using a subpar SJ on a subpar job? And for the the WHM debate, what does RDM or SCH offer? Everything they do comes down to 'it gives you more MP' while BLM gives you the ability to cast stun and cast D2, which is far superior because MP isn't an issue for any event that there is to do in the game right now, and if your WHMs are running out, you're playing poorly. The only event when anything beyond refresh gear is even useful is legion, and you should have at least a RDM casting refresh 2 on you there, which makes sublimation and refresh 1 from /rdm both useless.

EDIT#2:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/251704
Posting this link in case people dont know what the set is.

[Behemothx]

What's with you and /blm, dude get an instant warp already. It's MORE EFFICIENT AND YOU'RE DOIN IT WRONG!

[Dragoy]

Have to agree with Behemothx on warp-scrolls being efficient. :b

But yeah, in short, I am with Arcon here. Not everyone do things your way, and it does not mean they suck at the game. No, really! A game should be fun, and not everyone will find things fun like you do, as I mentioned in another thread. People like to challenge themselves by soloing, or tackling things with a friend or few. In these situations, it is often a lot more efficient to sacrifice on the damage output and go with a more supportive support jobs and all that.

I'm sure you agree.

It seems to me you are only talking about situations where you can utilize several jobs and whatnot, and while this might be the one and only 'correct' way for you, it just isn't for everyone. It's like opinions; you know how those are, I'd bet. ^^;

Personally for the topic, I'm usually with the boring /WAR for the sheer damage but that is only because I more than often have a WHM to keep me up. If it's not that, then /DNC most often for the Stun capability, and/or the extra cure option depending of what I'm doing (these events usually consists of 2-4 characters as a whole).


Blubb ! !! !

[wish12oz]

Have to agree with Behemothx on warp-scrolls being efficient. :b

Giving up gil and inventory for warp isn't useful when you don't need to, especially inventory. Maybe you guys should get good TP sets, an MDT set, PDT set, WS sets, a ninjutsu set (for VW), proc weapons (for VW and abyssea) and tools, then come back and tell me how awesome -1 inventory is.

While you're at it, why don't you list what SCH and RDM provide aside from more MP and provide evidence that extra MP is needed. If you can't even do that than I win by default because you're conceding to my point that extra MP isn't useful, while +1 inventory is always useful. Just saying X is better than Y isn't going to cut it, I have stated why BLM is better, but have yet to see anyone say anything about SCH or RDM except lolusonoob! and the like. Argue against my points or the validity of your own opinion or GTFO.


EDIT:::
Seriously, how did I miss this?

When did you become the new Pchan? He's the only other person I've seen spew such bullshit before.

The new Pchan? Pchan might say silly things sometimes, and do dumb stuff, but he's still better than 99% of the rest of you scrubs.

[Arcon]

While you're at it, why don't you list what SCH and RDM provide aside from more MP [..]

AoE buffs, faster casting and recast times.


[..] and provide evidence that extra MP is needed.

In Salvage it has come in very handy. Would take me a lot longer if I had to rest with no means of Refresh, would probably even time out if I tried to clear everything, which means I'd have to cut corners to finish, thus gimping my Alex yield per session.


The new Pchan? Pchan might say silly things sometimes, and do dumb stuff, but he's still better than 99% of the rest of you scrubs.

That fits, as I'm not criticizing your (or his) play style, but your argumentation. You're not objectively wrong with anything you said. Same as Pchan's "MNK only" attitude, you don't seem to understand what people are even playing for. It's not just to throw x MNKs, 1 SMN and 1 SCH at everything and see how fast you can down it. Personally I love going out and try to solo NMs just to see if I can do it. It has nothing at all to do with efficiency. I know it would be easier if I got a bunch of friends to come out with me. That's completely beside the point. I normally hate the "it's my 12.95" argument, because people use it to justify every bad behavior of theirs, but in this case it works, because this really is a matter of opinion. No one is saying you're wrong. We're just disagreeing with you. Everyone knows /WAR is NIN's best DD choice, but not all people go that route. And if you insist that that's "wrong", then you just don't get it.

[Shadowsong]

Methinks someone has lost sight of what a "game" is

[Neisan_Quetz]

Don't need /sch or /rdm in salvage. You can do that /thf on Whm. AoE buffs only applies to the pt that doesn't have a whm and most people bring at least 2 anyway... most of whm's native buffs are AoE anyway. AoE stoneskin is pretty redundant post cureskin changes, I can barely consider others worth AoEing. /Rdm is almost totally useless unless you need to dispel more often.

Don't need either sub to cap cure cast time as far as I can see.

[Behemothx]

Don't need /sch or /rdm in salvage. You can do that /thf on Whm. AoE buffs only applies to the pt that doesn't have a whm and most people bring at least 2 anyway... most of whm's native buffs are AoE anyway. AoE stoneskin is pretty redundant post cureskin changes, I can barely consider others worth AoEing. /Rdm is almost totally useless unless you need to dispel more often.

Don't need either sub to cap cure cast time as far as I can see.

Still, WHM/BLM today is pretty useless.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If you're benefiting from Stun it has its uses, if you're doing old content chances are you're better off /thf for TH if you aren't bringing a thf main, MP isn't an issue in abyssea or VW.

[Arcon]

Don't need /sch or /rdm in salvage.

No, but it's more efficient, which is pretty much what his sole priority seems to be.


AoE buffs only applies to the pt that doesn't have a whm and most people bring at least 2 anyway... most of whm's native buffs are AoE anyway.

Sneak/Invis applies to the current pt, and saves everyone having to bring sneak/invis tools/meds, which saves more inventory than warp slots. It also enables AoE cures to wake other parties in the alliance.


Don't need either sub to cap cure cast time as far as I can see.

I have no idea. I don't care much either. It saves having to bring even more gear to reduce casting/recast time, again all according to his sole argument, which is inventory.

Note, that this all is just to contradict some of the statements made, even if none of this was true, it still wouldn't mean anything. The main argument is that there is more than one way to do it.

[Neisan_Quetz]

/Thf is more efficient in old content/salvage unless you brought a thf main.

Why do you keep posting on stuff that you do not care about? Just to try and win an argument? that's pretty bad tbh. Well I suppose it would be difficult if you don't have any of the nefer/heka bodies (light damage magian staff covers either), NQ isn't that expensive, albeit possibly rare on AH.

I'm sorry but you're going to have to list areas sneak/invis even matter for, because I have seen it matter for all of nothing in most VW runs I have done, and anything around the pop becomes tp fodder.

[Arcon]

/Thf is more efficient in old content/salvage unless you brought a thf main.

Exactly.


Why do you keep posting on stuff that you do not care about? Just to try and win an argument? that's pretty bad tbh. Well I suppose it would be difficult if you don't have any of the nefer/heka bodies (light damage magian staff covers either), NQ isn't that expensive, albeit possibly rare on AH.

I never said I didn't care about the argument. I said I don't care if you can cap it without /SCH or /RDM, because either way it will require you to carry more gear around, which is basically his entire argument for /BLM.


I'm sorry but you're going to have to list areas sneak/invis even matter for, because I have seen it matter for all of nothing in most VW runs I have done, and anything around the pop becomes tp fodder.

You better be sorry, because it seems you just want me to list these things because your imagination is severely limited. This is what I, personally, had to use it for in the last few weeks: getting G3 done for people, getting the rank 4-1 mission done, hunting statues in Dynamis, getting to staging points, getting to trial areas and hunt for Seasoning Stones. Not that I had to list any of it, because that's not the point. The point is that there are WHM buffs you can AoE for some situations, and people will find those situations, whether you care about them or not.

In case that's not enough for you, there's also AoE Erase, Regen and all -na spells, as well as Protect/Shell for when you can't or don't want to go within an enemy's AoE range.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I am pretty sure it was about subs for VW not other events. as already stated MP is not an issue in VW or abyssea, so without needing extra dispels a la carabosse /rdm is pretty redundant. /sch is also not really needed and matters little in either area, as do invis/sneak for getting around in VW.

The only extra piece you would have to carry around is... Possibly cure clogs, or the cap+2.

[Bulrogg]

OP:
Just want to know what most people like subing with their nin and some combinations, job traits, and abilities that make their job more personal unique. feel free to post anything and no this isn't a troll I'm just curious what people come up with in their own free time.

Nothing about events here. "what most people like subing...that make their job more personal unique"

The argument starts with
WAR

It's cookie cutter because it's the best. If you sub anything else you're doing it wrong.

Then other jobs and their subs got drug into it just to continue the arguing.

and now we are here...



Methinks someone has lost sight of what a "game" is



I normally hate the "it's my 12.95" argument, because people use it to justify every bad behavior of theirs, but in this case it works, because this really is a matter of opinion. No one is saying you're wrong. We're just disagreeing with you. Everyone knows /WAR is NIN's best DD choice, but not all people go that route. And if you insist that that's "wrong", then you just don't get it.

and I couldn't agree more.

[wish12oz]

WHM can cap cast and recast time for every spell without /rdm, and you should be carrying around that set regardless of what you're doing.

Suck less on strategy or gil and AOE procs on -na spells from /sch won't be useful. Good WHMs will have yagrush, and there's no time when 1 WHM should be casting -na spells on more than 2 people, which makes the time people are debuffed the same with /sch and without. The good WHM buffs are all AOE already, shellra, barfira, etc.

Bring a THF to salvage (~.~; ) seriously. And if you can't keep up the healing in salvage as a WHM/BLM at 99 I feel sorry for you. I've gone in WAR/SAM, WHM/BLM mule and THF mule and full timed hasso, used berserk every time it was up, and tanked everything on WAR, generally multiple mobs at a time too, cause running between stuff and reengaging is annoying, better to just aggro 4-5 mobs at a time, and I never quit fighting stuff or waited for MP or rested in salvage ever. If I can do that, with my gimp WHM mule, you should be fine with real people playing your WHM. But then I have noticed my standard for being gimp is different from most peoples, my WHM mule is actually better than 99% of real WHMs. Also: SCH and RDM are better in salvage than WHM, so lol, this argument isn't even good, if anything is gimping your alexandrite returns, its your bad job combination of jobs for the event and lack of gear for the WHM.

As for your 'doing missions and stuff' with nubs, I always find it useful to break nubs of thinking people will sneak/invis them. Nothing is worse than that 1 guy who doesnt bring oils/powders and expects mages to do it for him. This is much less of an issue now, but back in my day, when getting to exp camps required you to not be a retard everyone brought this stuff and handled it on their own, and I find that mindset to be the best. But thats probably just the bitter RDM in me from 2004. Which reminds me of a funny story. This one time when I was 61~ back in 2004 going to exp in onzozo, the party leader was one of those melees who refused to bring sneak/invis, needless to say he also didnt get a chocobo at the crag, and while everyone else had already made it to camp, he came strolling into zone 15~ minutes after us, and then expected me to come back to the entrance and sneak/invis him. I promptly warped and disbanded.

Different people find fun in different things. My idea of fun is being awesome. I like to stick random stuff in my bazaar for 99,9999,999 gil just so people check me and say wow at my gear more often. It's the same reason you buy a BMW or Italian sports car IRL, or that brand new truck if you're a country boy.

I think I responded to every point people made against me. If not feel free to point out things I missed or try to argue against me.

[Shadowsong]

What you missed seems to be that the only way to "do it wrong" is to not have fun. Some people like doing it your way, some don't.
I could just as easily say you are doing it wrong by taking a game too seriously. Every post you do is like 90 paragraphs, even when I agree with you I still skip your posts.

[Economizer]

Good WHMs will have yagrush

In case people weren't convinced everything you say is trolling, I present this.

And if you don't know all the reasons why /SCH is uniquely important for White Mage, go read the BGwiki article on Light Arts some more and try to figure it out. I assure you there is something you missed that is blatantly obvious to anyone who knows how to play White Mage correctly; people may prefer another sub, but not even knowing what trade offs they are making does not reflect well on them.

-

More on topic, any subjob is the right sub as long as you know why you are subbing it and are exploiting the advantages it brings you, especially for Ninja.

Dance on, NIN/DNC, keep shooting, NIN/RNG, keep throwing, NIN/RNG. Keep playing how you have fun.

[Arcon]

Different people find fun in different things. [..]

This is pretty much my entire argument. I won't even bother responding to the Yagrush thing, as I feel there's no reasoning with you on that level.

BRD > RDM > WHM > SCH in terms of Salvage mules. Not sure what you could even use SCH for, unless it is to conserve MP, which you said there's no need for. I usually go THF+WHM as that's least effort. BRD mule is a pain to control, but it's easily the most efficient if you keep a haste and a refresh cycle up.

[Economizer]

Not sure what you could even use SCH for, unless it is to conserve MP, which you said there's no need for.

I'm thinking it was probably something like Embrava + superior nuking power over WHM and RDM to dump the extra MP and get faster kills + superior healing over RDM.

Depending on the Salvage floor and what you're doing you might as well melee WHM (if you thought /SCH was good for MP efficiency, you should see what Mystic Boon can do in Salvage) if you're gonna bring a WHM though, but really, whatever is fun is the best.

If NIN/THF or NIN/DNC strikes someone's fancy in Salvage, power to them.

[wish12oz]

Poor people, lol. Making gil is easy, it takes longer to do everything other than the alexandrite than to make 600m to buy 30k alex at 20k each, which is over paying by Odins standards.

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Light_Arts
This says lights arts increases skill levels to B, gives fast cast and reduces MP cost of spells. You can do more than that if you skill up your magic skills, you can cap cast/recast times with gear, and MP isn't an issue, so.......... what am I missing exactly? nothing? k.

[Arcon]

This is getting outright retarded. What does /BLM have? One extra inventory space and Stun. What does /SCH have? More MP, faster and cheaper casts, lower recast times, several AoE buffs and cures, access to Dispel, higher enhancing and enfeebling magic skills and even more inventory. What are you missing? A brain?

[Llana_Virren]

This says lights arts increases skill levels to B, gives fast cast and reduces MP cost of spells. You can do more than that if you skill up your magic skills, you can cap cast/recast times with gear, and MP isn't an issue, so.......... what am I missing exactly? nothing? k.

Which is why /sch is superior, as it saves us those precious inventory slots for potency, not casting time. Then again, saving you one inventory space is apparently more important than saving a mages 10....

[Dragoy]

Giving up gil and inventory for warp isn't useful when you don't need to, especially inventory. Maybe you guys should get good TP sets, an MDT set, PDT set, WS sets, a ninjutsu set (for VW), proc weapons (for VW and abyssea) and tools, then come back and tell me how awesome -1 inventory is.

I have all the inventory space very much used up most of the time, actually. Granted, I carry lots of 'useless' stuff for the purpose of 'fun', so I'm far from efficient in that regard. I do, however, carry more and less complete TP/WS sets as well as sets for reducing damage taken. I do not do Voidwatch, but I have weapons specifically for triggering the red weakness as a Ninja in Abyssea.

So yeah, I do know how awesome this -1 inventory you speak of can be, even though my sets may be far from complete, or optimal even. The inventory system itself is a big part against getting the most out of sets. I just can't be bothered, and I have different priorities. ^^;

A scroll of Instant Warp specifically is pretty much free, and if need be, it is easy to drop and get replaced later on so it has never felt like an issue to me. Could be to others, but that's just my experience and opinion on it.


Blubb~

[Darwena]

This topic seriously going nowhere... Debating about WHM sub isn't the topic and isn't WHM categories...

[wish12oz]

This is getting outright retarded. What does /BLM have? One extra inventory space and Stun. What does /SCH have? More MP,

More MP which isnt useful.


faster and cheaper casts,

No it doesnt, you can cap recast and cast times with just gear on WHM, and again, MP isnt useful.


lower recast times,

No, it doesnt


several AoE buffs and cures,

WHM gets all those naturally, and MP isnt an issue so who cares if you spend 260 MP on curaga 4 or 88 oncure 4, it wont even be that much because of AF3+2 pants


on access to Dispel,

You got me there, but then I have a brd mule so... whatever, not useful


higher enhancing and enfeebling magic skills

Which arent useful, because its only 10 enhancing skill, and its not even required to reach the cap of 500, which has been shown to be the cap on everything it was tested for. And lol, enfeebling skill? you really think 14 or 15 more enfeebling skill is going to help you land.... what was it WHMs can cast again? Dia2? AWESOME! You know enfeebling skill only helps accuracy, not potency right?


and even more inventory.

WHMs dont get more inventory from subbing SCH, because they will have all that gear anyway for times they dont sub SCH.


What are you missing? A brain?

I'm missing someone who can come up with something useful from /rdm or /sch, so far it's dispel (which isnt even useful most of the time) vs stun (which also isnt always useful) +warp2. Looks like /BLM is still winning.


Which is why /sch is superior, as it saves us those precious inventory slots for potency, not casting time. Then again, saving you one inventory space is apparently more important than saving a mages 10....

see above comments.

[Behemothx]

... And lol, enfeebling skill? you really think 14 or 15 more enfeebling skill is going to help you land.... what was it WHMs can cast again? Dia2? AWESOME! You know enfeebling skill only helps accuracy, not potency right?


Glad you're not my WHM, you don't even know what enfeebling spells are.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Nor does 99% of the whms I've seen but I digress. Not that most of them after dia are very relevant or used outside of proc'ing in VW.

[Llana_Virren]

Wish12oz needs to stop smoking crack during events if the last post is supposed to be of any merit.

/sch > /blm in most events.

/sch provides faster casting time (which means gear does not need to be devoted to casting speeds, and can focus on potency/efficiency).

/sch increases skills by a helluva lot more than "10 points" with the exception of oh, say Enhancing Magic. But then again, Dark Arts + Drain/Aspir must be behond his understanding. And before you say "why would a WHM need those spells anyway" I say this: do you always have a BLM or RDM/blm around to proc yellow on dark magic?

/sch is the superior subjob for WHM and it will continue to be for some time. Similar to the "NIN is /war only" fallacy, /sch is not the only decent subjob for WHM, but it is arguably the most beneficial in most circumstances.

Learn2play before you spew nonsense. Too many good players have been carrying your dead weight around and letting you think you know what you're talking about.

V/R

White Mages everywhere

The argument of "you can do all of that with gear" also applies in this argument: you don't need a WHM to go /blm for Warp... you can get Warp with gear. (*cough* Warp Cudgel *cough*)

[Economizer]

The argument of "you can do all of that with gear" also applies in this argument

Except it doesn't apply. You can't cap out Enhancing Magic with just gear.



The first thing I'd like readers to note is that even with a perfect gear set (which isn't easy to get, btw) you'll still be pulling below that magic 500 even if you don't use 4/5 AF3 set bonus for gear (i.e. gimp WHM) if you don't have Light Arts. Basically, you can't do it with gear.

The second thing I'd like to point out is that a perfect barspell set also requires /SCH. Considering that magic defense bonus boosts are a White Mage's trump card over other healers, I'd imagine that you'd want to get as close to a perfect set as possible, and that's only possible with /SCH. I'd say good luck making up 26 points of Enhancing Magic without digging into your MDB and AF3 bonuses but it simply isn't possible.

Not even knowing what is possible while arguing that it is as part of your reasoning certainly lends to the phrase "learn to play" quite well...

-

If different play styles weren't right then we probably wouldn't have sub jobs, White Mages would just get Light Arts in the first place and Ninjas would get Sambas in the first place. :p

Also, if anyone is even reading this thread for sub job combos for Ninja anymore, here is a fun one to try out: NIN/PLD. Obviously you'll still be Dual Wielding, and you lose a bit of melee strength compared to NIN/DRK (which is probably the most similar sub combo), but you still get access to Sanguine Blade, and other methods to heal yourself like /DRK, but you get Flash, Auto-Refresh, Resist Sleep, Shell II, and Sentinel, making it a more defensive combination in certain situations, particularly for Stun resistant mobs (or if you're willing to drop your TP to macro in a shield momentarily to bash).

[Llana_Virren]

Econ, you misunderstood. I was using wish's own "use your gear for recast timer" argument of saying he could use his gear for warp (via cudgel). He seems convinced that nothing but /blm is useful for WHM; WHM should never use anything other than /blm (because /sch and /rdm only provide additional MP, supposedly); and that equipment will do everything /sch can.

Obviously, for WHMs especially (as I am a devoted WHM), the benefit of /sch reaches beyond what gear alone can provide, and I appreciate that you understand that.

On topic, I've seen a few NIN go /pld for the reasons you've added. Really, sometimes it's beneficial to chose a subjob that doesn't compliment your primary, just to make certain things harder and thereby test your mettle. Otherwise you'll find yourself in the crowd of DDs crying that they keep dying due to paralyze/stun/amnesia (but couldn't be bothered to use screens) or can't hold hate, get the WHM killed, and then complain that they can't heal themselves (no potions, etc).

The tragedy is that MMOs allow bad players to syphon off the good ones, and for idiots to survive by the good graces of exceptional support crews, like the BRDs and RDMs that did 99% of the work on ToAU parties.

[wish12oz]

/sch provides faster casting time (which means gear does not need to be devoted to casting speeds, and can focus on potency/efficiency).

I stopped reading here, you obviously have no idea how to gear swap and it's pointless to continue this discussion.

[Llana_Virren]

I stopped reading here, you obviously have no idea how to gear swap and it's pointless to continue this discussion.

Try reading more, even if it hurts your pride. You're only denying yourself an education on how WHM works.

Here's the problem: you have no idea how gear works. When you can only carry 80 items in your inventory, you cannot fit 93 items into your macros. Melee don't have this problem; mages do.

/sch saves me inventory space without sacrificing effectiveness. Just like /blm lets a WHM save -you- inventory space. The only difference is that a WHM/sch saves more inventory spaces than WHM/blm does, which was (one of) your original nitpicks... "precious inventory spaces."

Can mages cap out casting time reductions and recast timers without SCH? Yes. Does /sch allow us to not need the excess equipment required for this to work? Yes.

Learn2read, Learn2mage, or gtfo of FFXI before you hurt yourself.

[Shadowsong]

Does this person even play WHM? They sound like those TV reporters describing what the Internet is.

[Darwena]

I don't even know why we debating about WHM on a thead for NIN about support job.

About topic:

I don't think NIN/PLD can be a good option. don't have a lot of MP even with auto-refresh. You do less DMG so mob take longer to kill. If the Cure III make you think it good, I think NIN/DNC will bring more for soloing than NIN/PLD.

With NIN/DNC you can curing waltz (better than cure III), haste or drain samba, stun, reduce defense of mob and even remove status ailment when needed... and you get a bonus to evasion.

NIN/PLD: pro/shell II? Cure III? defense bonus? those aren't usefull on a evasion based job.

[Bulrogg]

NIN/pld was an alternative to the more popular NIN/drk.

I've seen it used on ToAU Kings/HNMs.

[Darwena]

NIN/pld was an alternative to the more popular NIN/drk.

I've seen it used on ToAU Kings/HNMs.

That was BEFORE WotG expension... that mean before DNC came out.

[Bulrogg]

wait wait wait..... :confused: I thought /dnc wasn't a viable sub selection for cult-ninjas? And you mean to tell me that /dnc hasn't always been in the game? :rolleyes:

Yes /pld and /drk were released before /dnc came out. I don't see what /dnc has to do with people going out /pld or /drk. Perhaps you are thinking people were /pld as a means to solo and heal themselves and thusly made the /dnc correlation. As I said before, /pld was an alternative to /drk. Nin/drk wasn't for soloing, nor /pld; people still used /drk & /pld after the release of /dnc and some still do now.

When will it be realized that the topic is about combinations that aren't for the main stream cookie-cutter cult-ninjas?

Also I feel there has to be some mention of /war just to keep the thread from being over ran with "you are wrong" and "there is only one way" post as such. We have conceded that /war is the best option. However it is not the only sub that people use.

[FrankReynolds]

The only reason to ever go /blm is if you are traveling someplace where the mobs are too weak to kill you, and in too big of a rush to stop and get a warp scroll / stick.

I like to go NIN/MNK just for shiggles sometimes. Countering on nin is just plain fun.

[Babekeke]

Does NIN/PLD actually offer anything worthwhile that you can't get with NIN/WHM now? Slightly higher stats and HP, I suppose.

[Kincard]

I like to go NIN/MNK just for shiggles sometimes. Countering on nin is just plain fun.

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100927221650/ffxi/images/e/eb/Iga_Hakama_%2B2.png

[Arcon]

Does NIN/PLD actually offer anything worthwhile that you can't get with NIN/WHM now? Slightly higher stats and HP, I suppose.

Auto-Refresh.

[Bulrogg]

Does NIN/PLD actually offer anything worthwhile that you can't get with NIN/WHM now? Slightly higher stats and HP, I suppose.

Shield bash(Shield Mastery), Sentinel, Cover and can also fill-in the same red !! as /war; try doing that /whm. :rolleyes: Seriously though, it's worthwhile if they choose to use it as such. Ask them why they are /pld instead of /whm.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Does NIN/PLD actually offer anything worthwhile that you can't get with NIN/WHM now? Slightly higher stats and HP, I suppose.


Shield bash(Shield Mastery), Sentinel, Cover and can also fill-in the same red !! as /war; try doing that /whm. :rolleyes: Seriously though, it's worthwhile if they choose to use it as such. Ask them why they are /pld instead of /whm.

/head asplode

[Darwena]

NIN/WAR is the best support job for NIN I said it on 90% of my post here and I don't think I need to talk about /WAR again as best support job for NIN. Now you talk about some situational event. /PLD have nothing to bring and WTF shield bash???? You will sacrifice more DMG for a... shield bash???? What you gonna bring next time? NIN/BRD so you can self Madrigal? Dunno what you smoke, but you should slow down on it before you start about NIN/SMN...

[Kincard]

I'm all for playing solo and experimenting with shit, but after the release of /DNC, there was pretty much no reason to sub anything else when you're soloing and level cap raise made it even more pointless because it gives you violent flourish now. The only really big irritant for /DNC is paralyze, and if you're going to be soloing anything challenging I hope you're carrying a few medicines to combat that.

Seriously, shield bash? Wat.

Also, one of the biggest advantages offered by /RDM or /WHM (Haste) can now be obtained by any sub by wearing Oynos Knife for a few turns. Whoop de do.

[MojoJojo]

The only time i was every /anything-other-than-war was when i was soloing stuff and went /dnc. Whatever tiny benefits you might get from some oddball combo is dwarfed by the sheer kickassery that is nin/war.

/dnc is nice for staying alive when you're all alone, but finding one soul/mule to join you on your adventure(s) shouldn't be too hard.

[Bulrogg]

Who said anything about fulling timing a shield? Never heard of a macro? No one seemed to get up in arms about it when it was previously suggested.

Perhaps you miss-read the OP. It asked what subs made the job more unique for each person, not cookie-cutter for everyone. We all know what the best job for cookie-cutter is.

Yes, /war is best (I knew it wouldn't be long before we're back to that) and /dnc is great for solo. But people still choose to utilize other support job options. As long as they know why they are subbing it, it is worthwhile to them. We've offered our input, but as we are not clairvoyants and you are the ones asking... why don't you track them down online and ask them why they are subbing it?

In regards to the mage support jobs, I believe people were discussing what subs WHMs should be using. The thread has gotten off track here and there. In regards to NIN I have seen /rdm only a handful of time and /whm even less.

[Kincard]

Who said anything about fulling timing a shield? Never heard of a macro?

yeah man its so awesome that i get to stun once every 5 minutes where I need to waste a space carrying around a shield and clear all my tp as i do it instead of getting to do it once every 45 seconds that also gives tp back i am such a unique snowflake <3

Next you're going to tell me casting slow is the reason you would sub RDM. There's a really big difference between trying to find a really niche use for a unique build and just doing something dumb/totally pointless.

[Bulrogg]

Thanks for jumping in, to catch you up--

We were talking about how /pld is similar to /drk and offers a more defensive combination in certain situations, especially forStun resistant mobs. But in the interest of asinine post, some asked what other uses /pld had that /whm couldn't provide. Then hilarity ensued.

No /pld isn't as viable as it was in the previous years. And we all know the real reason to /rdm is for convert. :rolleyes:

In short: the best event sub is /war and the most commonly used solo sub is /dnc. Other than that, people are exploring their own support job combinations to see what uses they have.

[Kincard]

Yeah...we're talking about unique combinations that offer something other subs don't give, which PLD doesn't give. At all. All the stuff it gives is redundant with other subs and pretty much always does it inferiorly. Also, PLD sub was never useful.

Ninjas have a defense line for stun-resistant mobs, it's called Utsusemi. If you're seriously up against one of those few monsters that are both stun-resistant and can -ga you half to death your MDT set and waltz spam should be more than enough to keep you alive, especially if you augmented Anwig/Desultor with DNC-related abilities (MDT/WaltzRecast PDT/WaltzTPCost respectively, that way they serve double duties, because only like 1 person in the universe has Suijin Kabuto).

[Tamoa]

Is there even a shield that nin can equip?

[Darwena]

Is there even a shield that nin can equip?

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061005163133/ffxi/images/8/8d/Varlet%27s_Targe.gif

Latent: /PLD

(they are other lv30 "Latent" shield but I pick /PLD one)

OR:

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080613032813/ffxi/images/d/de/Legion_Scutum.png

Drop from a zNM: Mahjlaef the Paintorn

You can have this too if you where at the fan festival 2008:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081209125602/ffxi/images/8/8b/Nomad_Moogle_Shield.png

So I don't think it's even worth mentioning NIN/PLD to "use a shield".

[Eric]

I don't know about you, but that "AGI+2" and that "MP recovered while healing +5" sure seem mighty enticing.

[Faule]

This is why I can't find respectable Ninja's these days? -_-

Thanks for depressing a dedicated Ninja since 2003.

Kaerin, I'm surprised you have the strength to continue arguing in every thread that's ever made. It's impressive first of all and it's ... confusing as well. Your tenacity knows no bounds.

I personally use /WAR. Always. I also have a WHM/BLM dual box I tow around with me wherever I go. When drops matter it's WHM/THF with a TH sash. If necessary I have a triple box bard I never care to run. I'm only ever /DNC if I'm going to campaign and I'm too lazy to log in my dual box. I've only ever been /SAM in ballista (60 cap haydays), /COR in ballista (60 cap again), or /DRK when it was useful.

I never carry warp scrolls. I'm a GD ninja. My 2 hour takes care of that for me, lol. I let my dual box die if I have to for warp (as WHM/THF). Otherwise it's /BLM. There's a point of efficiency at which a USABLE dual box exceeds it's usability as a dual box. And no matter how much better I make my alt WHM, I can't use it any better because I'm dual boxing. So it doesn't really matter to me. /BLM works perfectly fine. Stun is a freaking boss.

I prefer to represent Ninjas in the best case possible when I'm in groups. That means going /WAR, and sucking it up when I'm stuck in the Black Mage party. I'm a Ninja and I try to be the best, because that's what I like.

[ThaiChi]

Someone asked earlier who keeps hitting the "Like" button on Kaerin's posts, I know I've been liking them, because he knows what he's talking about. When it comes down to it, nothing is more optimal than WAR. And I'm not going to reiterate all the truth Kaerin's been saying because there's no need to, he's hit it spot on.

I have a RDM mule because I'm way too lazy to level WHM and gear it; because Cure 4 is more than enough for me--because I rarely ever get hit. Even in Dynamis I prefer /WAR and let my mule do THF/DNC, and things get killed a bit faster. Personally I have to agree with Langly, its hard to find respectable NINs on our server. I watch NINs who can't even use Issekigan correctly (IE throwing it up before you're engaged, using it while a mob is facing someone else) and people who still TP in Empyrean hands even after they gave us Koga +2. I shudder every time I see ANY job other than THF sub DNC. It seems most people who played NIN seriously at the 75 cap understands the job a bit more comprehensively than anyone who leveled it post 75.

There's a person I've met on our server who impose that common knowledge in joining Voidwatch pickups on NIN is to be /DNC. While I will oblige if I'm asked, I will never assume that my default sub will be anything other than /WAR, because I know what I'm there for: Some supplementary damage and katana/ninjutsu procs. Wasting TP and time on steps and sambas slows down my dps and overall damage. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I'm going to be the one doing a large portion of the damage, that's what BLM, WARs, SAMs and Resolution are for.

[wish12oz]

Kaerin, I'm surprised you have the strength to continue arguing in every thread that's ever made. It's impressive first of all and it's ... confusing as well. Your tenacity knows no bounds.

Need stuff to do while I play Fishing Fantasy XI, cause Diablo 3 sucks after 2 weeks. Maybe GW2 will be fun.

[Faule]

Someone asked earlier who keeps hitting the "Like" button on Kaerin's posts, I know I've been liking them, because he knows what he's talking about. When it comes down to it, nothing is more optimal than WAR. And I'm not going to reiterate all the truth Kaerin's been saying because there's no need to, he's hit it spot on.

I have a RDM mule because I'm way too lazy to level WHM and gear it; because Cure 4 is more than enough for me--because I rarely ever get hit. Even in Dynamis I prefer /WAR and let my mule do THF/DNC, and things get killed a bit faster. Personally I have to agree with Langly, its hard to find respectable NINs on our server. I watch NINs who can't even use Issekigan correctly (IE throwing it up before you're engaged, using it while a mob is facing someone else) and people who still TP in Empyrean hands even after they gave us Koga +2. I shudder every time I see ANY job other than THF sub DNC. It seems most people who played NIN seriously at the 75 cap understands the job a bit more comprehensively than anyone who leveled it post 75.

There's a person I've met on our server who impose that common knowledge in joining Voidwatch pickups on NIN is to be /DNC. While I will oblige if I'm asked, I will never assume that my default sub will be anything other than /WAR, because I know what I'm there for: Some supplementary damage and katana/ninjutsu procs. Wasting TP and time on steps and sambas slows down my dps and overall damage. But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I'm going to be the one doing a large portion of the damage, that's what BLM, WARs, SAMs and Resolution are for.

Hear hear Kelga. I'm far too passionate about NIN so when I see the things we see... I weep ninja tears. You can't see them but they kill beluga whales.

And I'm sure you have situations where even you will out DD the relics and empy's in the DD party. I know I have many times. So I keep going /WAR. And I keep doing my best.

@Kaerin lol Fishing Fantasy XI. Love it.

[Infidi]

NIN/NIN best combo. That is all.

[Dragoy]

Ehh, why not NIN/BRD!

Raptor Mazurka (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Raptor_Mazurka), activate ! !! !


What?

[Catmato]

That WAS a practical sub before the nerf...

[Babekeke]

NIN/DNC is for people who don't have a mage mule to keep them alive, or for low-man/solo situations where a reliable stun is needed (though can be subbed for /DRK instead).

[ShadowFFO]

Yeah if I'm solo-ing then I'm always NIN/DNC, just to be able to heal myself more conveniently, and use spectral jig. But anytime I'm with a party it's NIN/WAR.

[Eyeballed]

NIN/BST if I can. All hail Innin.

NIN/DNC if I can't. Die.

NIN/WAR if I can get a goddamn EXP group that needs one. Manji shuriken anyone?

NIN/BLM for funny ol' BCNM 40's. Pat Sajak wears shinobi-tabi.

NIN/THF for Sneak Attack. Ing everything that doesn't aggro to sound because I don't have the inventory for tools.

[Babekeke]

NIN/BLM for funny ol' BCNM 40's. Pat Sajak wears shinobi-tabi.

NIN/RDM was better^^

[Soraishin]

i'm sorry but /WAR is only effective when in a party to begin with, but the way this game is now 90% of the time you're solo'ing in areas that an adv. fellow isn't accessable in so using /DNC is your only viable option. but seriously /war for everything? lol you've never played as ninja if you said that with a straight face.

[Darwena]

I Play NIN from the good old time when the LV caps was lv75. Still today, I play NIN/WAR solo or duo. To be honest, subbing other job isn't helping at all.

/DNC? Yeah you can cure and such but you lose a HUGE amount of DMG output by losing double attacks, attack bonus, and war cry and berserk. Not mention since you using TP to keep samba and other DNC stuff that reduce WS use.

/BST? Seriously? Play BST instead, you will gain much from it anyway.

With /WAR, not only I can kill faster, but I barely need cure. If I need cure badly, like killing NM, /DNC won't help me anyway. I prefer asking a friend to come as WHM (or bring my mule. Instead).

NIN/WAR is the best for many purpose. But at the end, you play NIN as you like

[Zerowin]

I like to sub RUN. I like to think the element buffs you get help out.

[Darwena]

I admit /RUN can be an option, but since my RUN is way under leveled, I won't comment about it. But the magic defense from /RUN could be helpful. But as sub, do you get enough bonus to be useful again HNM? I don't know.

[Zerowin]

With the other buffs you can cast it should help quite a bit.

[Lunatone]

sub dnc, even though ive got a sch mule i cant help but go /dnc just a bad habit, but tbh nowadays im always nin/thf for TH