[SUGGESTION] Move the Dancer JA "Chocobo Jig" to level 49.

[scaevola]

I am a DNC main, less by choice than by the fact that, as my sig suggests, Chocobo Jig + Tandava Crackows have made pretty much every other job in the game totally intolerable.

This would be a huge QoL benefit to everybody and /DNC is not strong enough in any meaningful situation to cause a balance issue except maybe in Nyzul, which to be honest could probably use it.

[Savlyn]

So you play DNC just because it can walk around faster? lol

[Duelle]

So you play DNC just because it can walk around faster? lolI think it's more testimony to how everyone moves as slow as molasses in this game. Abj legs and ugly-ass shoes with an enchant don't count, btw.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

So you play DNC just because it can walk around faster? lolThat is the very reason I play brd.

[scaevola]

So you play DNC just because it can walk around faster? lol

DNC became my main because over and over, I was faced with tasks I could complete on DNC or on another job (relatively) equally well, and in that case having a constant +37% movement speed while out of combat was such a huge convenience and saved so much time that I always ended up ignoring my other jobs.

The only people who'd laugh at the idea of playing a job primarily because it constantly moves nearly half-again as fast as almost every other job are people who haven't played jobs that actually do that.

[Savlyn]

Completely ignoring the fact that my DNC & BRD are 90+, I will still laugh at movement speed being the incentive to play a job. I can't even fathom that kind of logic. Running around represents such a small fraction of this game nowadays.

[scaevola]

It is a much smaller fraction than it was a few years ago, granted. Now it's a "considerable amount" rather than "holy shit of COURSE I'll wait 10 minutes for that airship to show up. what do I look like, an idiot?".

But this isn't about what I look for in a job to accomplish tasks that don't require specialized skillsets. This is about all the rest of you suckers, trudging around in slow motion, scared to death of Dusk Gloves.

Movement speed matters. Pchan was actually dead-on when he said it was bar none the single most important gear stat in Abyssea, and yeah, I actually DO think this would be overpowered if /DNC were not really, really overshadowed in Abyssea other than Spectral Jig and Violent Flourish.

[Savlyn]

What is this I don't even...

http://cdn.overclock.net/2/21/211115ce_jackie-chan-meme_reasonably_small.png

I can't even debate this with you. You are clearly not rational.

[Sotek]

Non-combat +Movement speed is pretty much worthless. "Getting there faster" almost always translates to "Waiting on other people for longer". Any situation so unimportant or challenging that you're not waiting on other people, you might as well just be on DNC anyway, because your main job means absolutely nothing when you're hunting coffers.

This wouldn't even be a benefit to everyone, because /DNC is a completely stupid option for a number of jobs. It would be a far better idea to just take the /sprint function from Ballista and add it to regular gameplay. Of course, then you'll be complaining that DNC main with tandava crackows, Chocobo Jig and /sprint has made every other job unplayable, so maybe you should just get the fuck over it.


But this isn't about what I look for in a job to accomplish tasks that don't require specialized skillsets. This is about all the rest of you suckers, trudging around in slow motion, scared to death of Dusk Gloves.

Haha, whats that? We're scared to death of Dusk Gloves? That coming from someone so terrified of normal movement speed (normal being 112%) that they main DNC solely for Chocobo Jig? That's so ridiculous that I almost looked over the fact that you just mentioned a piece of worthless, outdated gear.

[Savlyn]

Did his replies make you laugh really hard too?

...before you cried when you realized he was serious? I did ._.

[Kaisha]

It would be a far better idea to just take the /sprint function from Ballista and add it to regular gameplay.
I've been saying this for years and nothing has come of it.

I rank it near the top of my list beside "Easy Prey mobs not aggroing period". I'm 99, why do 7 year old crabs want to harass me still?

[scaevola]

It has been years since I did ballista but iirc, /sprint does not have C. Jig's 5-second "cast time", which is essentially the main balancing aspect of the ability; giving everybody /sprint would give actual competitive advantages in running down claims (and thus trivialize Flee) in a way C. Jig would not.

Loathe as I am to entertain the opinions of somebody who can't recognize "scared to death of Dusk Gloves" as a joke, if OOC +movement speed doesn't matter anyway, what's the problem with this suggestion?

(ps I definitely supported myself for about a year by selling Gukumatz and Heqet KIs back to people who didn't think out of combat movement speed was relevant, sooooo)

[Sotek]

Job abilities don't have a cast time. Learn to macro in a piece of visual gear to negate ability animations.


Loathe as I am to entertain the opinions of somebody who can't recognize "scared to death of Dusk Gloves" as a joke, if OOC +movement speed doesn't matter anyway, what's the problem with this suggestion?

Technically, nothing (except you know, everything I mentioned before pointing out /sprint would be a better option). However, I'd rather SE waste the 10 seconds it would take to drop Chocobo Jig down 6 levels on something less worthless, like increasing the range on Libra. Maybe if they hire a second developer they can do both, but until then I'd rather have the one that actually has a noticeable impact on gameplay.



Dann, Puella Magi Madoka Magica.

[Dann]

Completely off topic...but since theres no private messages i have to ask here sorry =/ Does anyone know the name of the anime in Sotek's sig? >.> It's been bugging me for a while lol



Edit: Thanks Sotek!

[svengalis]

So you play DNC just because it can walk around faster? lol

If chocobo jig was moved to 49 it would be one less reason to play dancer. Although I would love to have it it would make the job less desirable hardly anyone plays dancer now.

[scaevola]

Job abilities don't have a cast time. Learn to macro in a piece of visual gear to negate ability animations.

Learn the difference between JA delay and animation lock.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/634-Job-Ability-Delay

Jigs don't work the same way as other JAs; if they did, you'd be even dumber for coming into this thread and saying Chocobo Jig is a worthless ability when people still gladly pay 8 figures for herald's gaiters. Pretty sure the only ways to consistently use C. Jig and keep moving are dat-swapping and a 3rd-party tool, which may be viable, but at that point why not just give up pretense and install clipper?


However, I'd rather SE waste the 10 seconds it would take to drop Chocobo Jig down 6 levels on something less worthless, like increasing the range on Libra.

They could do both. Stop being stupid and make your own thread.

[Sotek]

They could do both. Stop being stupid and make your own thread.

No, they really can't. They've gone and changed the range on abilities several times already (THF abilities, Holy, Jumps) and every time overlooked Libra (and plenty of other small issues, I just use Libra because it's what I know) despite the fact that I've got a cubic ton of posts telling them to. There is only so much the skeleton crew they have can do, since they're already wasting time on pointlessly changing the UI, I'd rather they not waste time on anything else worthless.

As for the difference between ability delay and animation lock, fair point, I had no idea about that. /sprint is still a far better alternative though.
Ability delay as a balancing point is ridiculous, as is bringing up Flee. I mean seriously, it would trivialize Flee (which doubles your movement speed) for everyone to move an extra 12~25% (since I have no idea which /sprint actually is)? If balancing Jigs with 1 or 2 seconds of inactivity (hardly the ridiculous 5 seconds you initially stated) is that important, just have /sprint remain slower than +25%. Alternatively you could just go get a BRD mule.

I also find it hard to believe you made money camping Abyssea NMs with Chocobo Jig if it truly does lock you for a couple of seconds, but maybe people on Bahamut are just that bad. I literally either didn't need to move, or only had to take a couple of steps in one direction to be able to claim Heqet back when we did. If it spawned far away enough that it would have taken me 2 seconds to cast on it, someone else in my party was probably close enough, though I don't think that would make much of a difference, since you'd still not have moved I could probably still have claimed it.

[Savlyn]

Oh my goodness I can't even read this insanity anymore. This should have been my last reply because at this point, we're really just feeding a troll.


It is a much smaller fraction than it was a few years ago, granted. Now it's a "considerable amount"
No. Just no. Abyssea warps, VW warps, outpost warps, items that teleport you directly to certain places (jeuno, nashmau, etc). Running around is now less than a fraction of the game. Before people had to use chocobos and teleports to get around. Nowadays, I can't remember having to run anywhere other than to the warp guy and maybe a minute in the zone.



(ps I definitely supported myself for about a year by selling Gukumatz and Heqet KIs back to people who didn't think out of combat movement speed was relevant, sooooo)

Congrats. It wasn't because of movement speed. Provoke and other claiming abilities activate at the same speed whether you're wearing movement speed gear or not. If movement speed = better claiming, I think I would be okay with that. But it really depends on: Who has the faster internet (i.e. no server delay), who can spam a macro/JA faster, and whether you're competing against someone with third party tools. I guarantee tons of other people "supported" themselves by selling Empy drops (I ran an effing Empy LS for 8 months) and it sure as hell wasn't because we had a DNC run around the zone with movement speed on. It was because we had people stand still and look out for mob pops.

Edit:
I also find it hard to believe you made money camping Abyssea NMs with Chocobo Jig if it truly does lock you for a couple of seconds, but maybe people on Bahamut are just that bad. I literally either didn't need to move, or only had to take a couple of steps in one direction to be able to claim Heqet back when we did. If it spawned far away enough that it would have taken me 2 seconds to cast on it, someone else in my party was probably close enough.
Lol thank you, Sotek. I was typing my long post when you posted this, and it just further proves the point. We were thinking the same thing.


If chocobo jig was moved to 49 it would be one less reason to play dancer. Although I would love to have it it would make the job less desirable hardly anyone plays dancer now.

People do play DNC. There's tons of them. And I bet if I asked every single main DNC, about 90% would say it had absolutely nothing to do with chocobo jig. Just playing a job based on one job ability that is irrelevant to actual combat is beyond idiotic. If you're willing to toss aside your main job just because chocobo jig would be useable on other jobs, then you're probably playing it for the wrong reasons. Hell, there are RDMs who still love RDM even though practically all of their job defining abilities were given to other jobs, and you're sitting here saying that DNC would be less playable if everyone got chocobo jig.


C. Jig's 5-second "cast time", which is essentially the main balancing aspect of the ability; giving everybody /sprint would give actual competitive advantages in running down claims

I don't know why in the world you or whoever you're camping NMs with is running down claims, but it makes a helluv a lot more sense to stand still in the spawn area and look around. Hell, even if it does spawn on the opposite end of the pop area, the time it would take to put on Chocobo jig with any competition around you means that you just lost the claim.


Stop being stupid and make your own thread

I think myself and everyone else who has opened this thread would agree that you're the one who should take your own advice. Just... don't make your own threads.



Loathe as I am to entertain the opinions of somebody who can't recognize "scared to death of Dusk Gloves" as a joke, if OOC +movement speed doesn't matter anyway, what's the problem with this suggestion?

First of all "Loathe as I am"? Really? Secondly, everything you say is ridiculous, so we honestly can't tell when you're joking. We think you're serious and crazy all the time.

And, there is no real suggestion in this thread. I would have had absolutely no problem with this thread had you opened it and actually stated reasons to reduce chocobo jig to lv 49. Hell, I think it's a good idea. But, because of your ludicrousness, no one here can take you seriously. I might go make my own "Move Chocobo Jig to 49" threas, but open it with real facts and reasons to do so, rather than my own opinion. (Especially if it's wrong).

If you've ever read a thread with people who post that "gear swapping is bad", it turns into the same thing. Everyone ignores the OP's proposal- in this case, lowering chocobo jig- and simply laughs at the ridiculousness of some players. It is happening here. So I ask you... for the love of Altana:
please
please
please
Do not reply any more. You are making yourself look bad and insulting the intelligence of everyone else here.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If chocobo jig was moved to 49 it would be one less reason to play dancer. Although I would love to have it it would make the job less desirable hardly anyone plays dancer now.

Movement Speed shouldn't be the whole basis of a job, if it is then the job is broken and needs fixing.

That said, I see plenty of DNC's and it's certainly not a job that has nothing going for it.

[scaevola]

No, they really can't. They've gone and changed the range on abilities several times already (THF abilities, Holy, Jumps) and every time overlooked Libra (and plenty of other small issues, I just use Libra because it's what I know) despite the fact that I've got a cubic ton of posts telling them to. There is only so much the skeleton crew they have can do, since they're already wasting time on pointlessly changing the UI, I'd rather they not waste time on anything else worthless.

Keep working on that strawman and it might be ready in time for Halloween!


As for the difference between ability delay and animation lock, fair point, I had no idea about that. /sprint is still a far better alternative though.
Ability delay as a balancing point is ridiculous, as is bringing up Flee. I mean seriously, it would trivialize Flee (which doubles your movement speed) for everyone to move an extra 12~25% (since I have no idea which /sprint actually is)? If balancing Jigs with 1 or 2 seconds of inactivity (hardly the ridiculous 5 seconds you initially stated) is that important, just have /sprint remain slower than +25%. Alternatively you could just go get a BRD mule.

The JA Delay on Chocobo Jig is five seconds. Like I said (and as Byrth points out in the thread I linked), Jigs are handled differently from most other JAs (which have 1-second JA delays) because C Jig in particular would be stupidly overpowered for claiming if it were not.

This is how it would trivialize Flee, of course. Flee has two uses: to get away from stuff (which you can't do with Chocobo Jig due to the "cast time") and to get over to claim a pop (which you CAN do with Jig, but only if you're prepared and already have it active when your target pops). Flee's entire purpose is its instant speed boost; CJig's intended to be a QoL ability, and works admirably as this.

Of course, this is probably falling on deaf ears, since you managed to get SCH to 99 apparently without wondering why you couldn't macro two or three strategems together with no <wait> in between.



I also find it hard to believe you made money camping Abyssea NMs with Chocobo Jig if it truly does lock you for a couple of seconds, but maybe people on Bahamut are just that bad. I literally either didn't need to move, or only had to take a couple of steps in one direction to be able to claim Heqet back when we did. If it spawned far away enough that it would have taken me 2 seconds to cast on it, someone else in my party was probably close enough, though I don't think that would make much of a difference, since you'd still not have moved I could probably still have claimed it.

I have Chocobo Jig active when Guku/Heqet/Bhumi/the next Dynamis trash mob pops and claim it with animated flourish while everyone else is still running over. In general the claims I miss are the ones where I'm straight-up not paying attention or the ones where I'm unlucky and they pop right on top of somebody else when I'm too far away. If you'd ever solo-camped a pop NM in your life you'd know what I was talking about.

The original point of my sig was to troll all the people complaining about how overcamped Zeruhn was when the ring first came out.

[scaevola]

Oh my goodness I can't even read this insanity anymore. This is my last reply because at this point, we're really just feeding a troll.


No. Just no. Abyssea warps, VW warps, outpost warps, items that teleport you directly to certain places (jeuno, nashmau, etc). Running around is now less than a fraction of the game. Before people had to use chocobos and teleports to get around. Nowadays, I can't remember having to run anywhere other than to the warp guy and maybe a minute in the zone.



Congrats. It wasn't because of movement speed. Provoke and other claiming abilities activate at the same speed whether you're wearing movement speed gear or not. If movement speed = better claiming, I think I would be okay with that. But it really depends on: Who has the faster internet (i.e. no server delay), who can spam a macro/JA faster, and whether you're competing against someone with third party tools. I guarantee tons of other people "supported" themselves by selling Empy drops (I ran an effing Empy LS for 8 months) and it sure as hell wasn't because we had a DNC run around the zone with movement speed on. It was because we had people stand still and look out for mob pops.

Edit:
Lol thank you, Sotek. I was typing my long post when you posted this, and it just further proves the point. We were thinking the same thing.



People do play DNC. There's tons of them. And I bet if I asked every single main DNC, about 90% would say it had absolutely nothing to do with chocobo jig. Just playing a job based on one job ability that is irrelevant to actual combat is beyond idiotic. If you're willing to toss aside your main job just because chocobo jig would be useable on other jobs, then you're probably playing it for the wrong reasons. Hell, there are RDMs who still love RDM even though practically all of their job defining abilities were given to other jobs, and you're sitting here saying that DNC would be less playable if everyone got chocobo jig.



I don't know why in the world you or whoever you're camping NMs with is running down claims, but it makes a helluv a lot more sense to stand still in the spawn area and look around. Hell, even if it does spawn on the opposite end of the pop area, the time it would take to put on Chocobo jig with any competition around you means that you just lost the claim.



I think myself and everyone else who has opened this thread would agree that you're the one who should take your own advice. Just... don't make your own threads.



First of all "Loathe as I am"? Really? Secondly, everything you say is ridiculous, so we honestly can't tell when you're joking. We think you're serious and crazy all the time.

And, there is no real suggestion in this thread. I would have had absolutely no problem with this thread had you opened it and actually stated reasons to reduce chocobo jig to lv 49. Hell, I think it's a good idea. But, because of your ludicrousness, no one here can take you seriously. I might go make my own "Move Chocobo Jig to 49" threas, but open it with real facts and reasons to do so, rather than my own opinion. (Especially if it's wrong).

If you've ever read a thread with people who post that "gear swapping is bad", it turns into the same thing. Everyone ignores the OP's proposal- in this case, lowering chocobo jig- and simply laughs at the ridiculousness of some players. It is happening here. So I ask you... for the love of Altana:
please
please
please
Do not reply any more. You are making yourself look bad and insulting the intelligence of everyone else here.

"lol" is not enough characters :(


EDIT:

BUT


Congrats. It wasn't because of movement speed. Provoke and other claiming abilities activate at the same speed whether you're wearing movement speed gear or not. If movement speed = better claiming, I think I would be okay with that. But it really depends on: Who has the faster internet (i.e. no server delay), who can spam a macro/JA faster, and whether you're competing against someone with third party tools. I guarantee tons of other people "supported" themselves by selling Empy drops (I ran an effing Empy LS for 8 months) and it sure as hell wasn't because we had a DNC run around the zone with movement speed on. It was because we had people stand still and look out for mob pops.

cool story tell me more about how you needed 8 people to do what I did alone

(also if only DNC and /DNC got a Provoke to claim as like, our first freaking flourish)

[Kalilla]

So you play DNC just because it can walk around faster? lol
Is that so wrong? ._.

[DaBackpack]

Wow, some of you guys need to calm the heck down. The guy's not trolling: I think it's a good suggestion (and I've read this whole thread, additionally).

I too will do a soloable task on DNC just because we move faster.
Do I need a heavy DD to farm Southern Pearls?
No, that mob is LOL, and to be honest the time that's cut in transit is less time that someone else can claim the mob before I get there.

When I'm doing petty things, or even things where the circumstances allow flexibility, sure, I prefer to come on Dancer for this sole reason.

Would I come DNC for Voidwatch? No, I wouldn't.
Would I come DNC for watching cutscenes or killing easy monsters? You bet your rear end I would.
For those that don't have DNC at 99, I think having Chocobo Jig at 49 would be beneficial (it's less versatile on a mage job, but hey you don't have to use it then). There is still a lot of stuff to that requires walking... and walking... and even if I get to a certain place a bit faster than the rest of my group, it's time that I can relax for a bit. If I'm not endangering the party by being on Dancer, I don't see why it's a big deal.

[Eric]

I used DNC + tandava crackows to clear a bunch of my missions, and it saved me a ton of time, but to be honest, movement speed+ won't save you nearly as much time in other(read: regular) circumstances.

[Jamesy]

I am a DNC main, less by choice than by the fact that, as my sig suggests, Chocobo Jig + Tandava Crackows have made pretty much every other job in the game totally intolerable.

This would be a huge QoL benefit to everybody and /DNC is not strong enough in any meaningful situation to cause a balance issue except maybe in Nyzul, which to be honest could probably use it.


no just no. this post is like asking the dev team remove the timer on flee effect on thief and make it a full time effect its unnecessary and ridiculous.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

no just no. this post is like asking the dev team remove the timer on flee effect on thief and make it a full time effect its unnecessary and ridiculous.

not really, not even close.

[Jamesy]

not really, not even close.


really because it is quite ridiculous and a request that's somewhat obnoxious if you wan a better analogy then here its like asking square enix to lower the level of Chocobo Mazurka to 49 because you don't want to use raptor mazurka anymore on /brd its honestly the biggest LMAO of a request that i have seen on these forums

[scaevola]

man never thought this would be the one to get the psychos out

[Savlyn]

The reason it seems like its you against everyone else in this thread is because you are. You are plain wrong and idiotic with everything you post, and the "psychos" are the players who realize that you are, and are calling you out on it. Make real points about your "suggestion" rather than absurd statements about the game and maybe more people would take you seriously and not jump down your throat.

And really? "lol" is the best response you can come up with to my post that destroyed your argument? No wonder this is a joke thread.

[scaevola]

Until Jamesy showed up and spilled out some semi-literate crazy, it was just you and Sotek typing up novels. Pretty much everyone else has been like "hey that's cool" or "eh, not really a big deal" in a sentence or two. I'm not really sure what exactly it is you're trying to do here, all running up and flailing your arms around like silverback gorilla, but by all means continue thinking you're fighting the good fight, I guess.

Also, if you could give me some bullet points on how you "destroyed my argument" that would be helpful because there's no way I'm reading all that. I might even be inclined to give those an adequate response; I'm not spending twenty minutes typing up detailed rebuttals to somebody who leveled DNC to 90 and yet apparently doesn't realize that Animated Flourish is a Provoke. I did, however, see you typed "for the love of Altana" at the end, which is FFXI Playerese for "please shove me in a locker", so that was helpful.

[cidbahamut]

I did, however, see you typed "for the love of Altana" at the end, which is FFXI Playerese for "please shove me in a locker", so that was helpful.

Highlight of the entire thread right here.

[scaevola]

Highlight of the entire thread right here.

In high school, I was in choir, theatre, and played D&D on Saturday nights, and I would feel obligated to pants somebody for saying that.

[Alhanelem]

In high school, I was in choir, theatre, and played D&D on Saturday nights, and I would feel obligated to pants somebody for saying that.
Yeah, you're cool, and awesome. Everyone on a forum loves people who brag about their real life accomplishments. Guess what? a lot of people have done those things. You're no more a special snowflake than anyone else here.

Just because people don't agree with your suggestion, doesn't mean they're all intellectually inferior idiots.

[Babekeke]

in that case having a constant +37% movement speed while out of combat was such a huge convenience and saved so much time that I always ended up ignoring my other jobs.

The only people who'd laugh at the idea of playing a job primarily because it constantly moves nearly half-again as fast as almost every other job are people who haven't played jobs that actually do that.

Wait, 37%? Don't tell me you don't sub BRD for 49%?

[scaevola]

Yeah, you're cool, and awesome. Everyone on a forum loves people who brag about their real life accomplishments. Guess what? a lot of people have done those things. You're no more a special snowflake than anyone else here.

hahaha

yes i was totally bragging about being in high school choir, and not making a joke about how even a freaking hypernerd like me thinks people who invoke altana are dweebs

i am going to resist my natural urge to make fun of such a silly reading of my post because it just feels mean and frankly, too easy


Just because people don't agree with your suggestion, doesn't mean they're all intellectually inferior idiots.

silly alhanalem

they aren't intellectually inferior idiots because they disagree with my suggestion

they're intellectually inferior idiots because they say "for the love of altana"

(of course, they justify disagreeing with my suggestion by leaning on incorrect information and strawmen, but unlike them, i am an adult and understand perceived ignorance is not grounds for ridicule)



Wait, 37%? Don't tell me you don't sub BRD for 49%?

Mazurka and Jig don't stack :(

[Daniel_Hatcher]

really because it is quite ridiculous and a request that's somewhat obnoxious if you wan a better analogy then here its like asking square enix to lower the level of Chocobo Mazurka to 49 because you don't want to use raptor mazurka anymore on /brd its honestly the biggest LMAO of a request that i have seen on these forums

Don't deny it may be, but that doesn't change that what you said previously was in no way correct.

[Anapingofness]

I am a DNC main, less by choice than by the fact that, as my sig suggests, Chocobo Jig + Tandava Crackows have made pretty much every other job in the game totally intolerable.

This would be a huge QoL benefit to everybody and /DNC is not strong enough in any meaningful situation to cause a balance issue except maybe in Nyzul, which to be honest could probably use it.

I like this. I like this a lot. However I do have a suggestion of my own!

How about you just make us run faster SE? Make the game faster.
But seriously.
An easy fix is to make everyone run in the game 20% faster. You can barely notice it when it's 12% and the only time you notice it is when you go back to the usual molasses crawl.

SE has a problem with increasing things by anything other than a marginal amount. It would not work to increase movement speed by like 5%. It has to be something like 20% so that people can tell and so that the game will feel faster overall.

[Sotek]

This is how it would trivialize Flee, of course. Flee has two uses: to get away from stuff (which you can't do with Chocobo Jig due to the "cast time") and to get over to claim a pop (which you CAN do with Jig, but only if you're prepared and already have it active when your target pops). Flee's entire purpose is its instant speed boost; CJig's intended to be a QoL ability, and works admirably as this.

And you can disengage, type /sprint and run in the opposite direction without the mob hitting you and /sprint wearing off? It's certainly seems improbable in my opinion. Wouldn't be too hard to test at least, but I don't care enough to do that. This is certainly a weak argument though, when do you ever need to run away from something? Especially in Abyssea, is the 2000 EXP you'll lose from wiping that difficult to part with? Last I checked you don't even need Flee to run away from most things, +12% movement speed is enough, anything that wont work on you probably don't want to run away from to begin with. QoL is damn near the only reason for any out of combat +movement speed, /sprint would be accessible to anyone, Chocobo Jig would be accessible to NIN.


Of course, this is probably falling on deaf ears, since you managed to get SCH to 99 apparently without wondering why you couldn't macro two or three strategems together with no <wait> in between.

Probably has something to do with the fact that hardly any spells really require more than one Stratagem.


I have Chocobo Jig active when Guku/Heqet/Bhumi/the next Dynamis trash mob pops and claim it with animated flourish while everyone else is still running over. In general the claims I miss are the ones where I'm straight-up not paying attention or the ones where I'm unlucky and they pop right on top of somebody else when I'm too far away. If you'd ever solo-camped a pop NM in your life you'd know what I was talking about.

The original point of my sig was to troll all the people complaining about how overcamped Zeruhn was when the ring first came out.

See, that's what I don't get. Why are they running over at all?
Lets take Abyssea for an example, back when Heqet/etc were worth camping (before the respawn rate was lowered, etc) you didn't solo it. You don't solo it anyway, not if you're seriously after key items (which you claimed to be selling). Any group serious enough about getting that crap done would have out claimed you easily, they'd have had more than enough people to completely cover the spawn area simply through having all procs covered. Congratulations on out claiming the dudes dualboxing WHM and MNK, I guess.
I've solo-camped plenty of NMs, Mee Degi used to be my bread and butter. Movement speed wouldn't have made a damn difference, either it spawned in front of you or it spawned in front of someone else. Running to it faster wouldn't do a damn thing.
The only possible situation I can understand what you're saying is in the case of something that is hardly being camped, but you're claiming to have sold key items and the only reason I've ever seen something like Gukumatz without a dozen different people camping it is because of timezone differences. In this day and age I can't even think of many NMs worth camping, the most glaring example would be Trials NMs, but you can team up for them.

I'm pretty sure Jamesy is right on the money with that last analogy. The best I think will come out of this thread is Raptor Jig at Lv.37 or something. You can't seriously go about bragging about the claiming potential of Chocobo Jig and expect SE to turn around with anything other than; "As Chocobo Jig gives DNCs an advantage when camping NMs, we do not think it would be fair to DNCs to reduce the level it is learned", can you? You've pretty much doomed your own suggestion, regardless of what I think.

Of course, since I simply suggest /sprint as purely a QoL 'get there faster' adjustment, I'd say they can still add that. I don't buy it trivializing Flee at all, but lets address that anyway; "/sprint cannot take effect when the player has hate". There we go, unless you've already lost hate, you can't get the movement speed bonus from it. Can still use it to claim NMs? Doesn't matter, everyone has it and Chocobo Jig can still give an advantage by simply being faster than /sprint or stacking with it. Failing that; "Players cannot engage enemies or use abilities with /sprint in effect".
If this thread was initially about getting about faster, then fair enough, I'm pretty sure I just covered that for everyone, not just jobs able to /DNC. If it was about you being able to claim NMs on jobs other than DNC, then good luck, because SE sure as hell isn't going to do that anytime soon.

[scaevola]

Alright, what the hell. I've got some time.


And you can disengage, type /sprint and run in the opposite direction without the mob hitting you and /sprint wearing off? It's certainly seems improbable in my opinion.

gosh what's a macro guys


Wouldn't be too hard to test at least, but I don't care enough to do that. This is certainly a weak argument though, when do you ever need to run away from something? Especially in Abyssea, is the 2000 EXP you'll lose from wiping that difficult to part with? Last I checked you don't even need Flee to run away from most things, +12% movement speed is enough, anything that wont work on you probably don't want to run away from to begin with. QoL is damn near the only reason for any out of combat +movement speed, /sprint would be accessible to anyone, Chocobo Jig would be accessible to NIN.

This is off-topic (since I already said the 5-second delay kept it from being OP, jeez), but any time I want to kite something, obviously. Here are a few examples, based on things I've done in like, the past 3 days of solo screwing around FFXI:

-Kiting Kukulkan after I fail to stun Oppressive Glare (because I am terrible at stunning, and it's easier to just be ready to kite than hope I successfully stun or die when I fail)
-Kiting Briareus after I fail to stun a 1111 Mercurial Strike/get hit with Colossal Slam and have to wait for Zombie to wear off (see above)
-Kiting Turul when his wind barrier's up
-Kiting mobs around while gathering them up, because I don't want to burn "charges" off Fan Dance before I'm ready to start cleaving them with Aeolian Edge

-Kiting Ulhuadshi around after stat absorbtion, basically anything with a meaningful two-hour, etc.

Usually 12% IS enough, but in some cases if I get lucky with pegging (Briareus mostly, or Kuk around his trees, obviously can't do it when solo cleaving, though) I can get a lead with my 12%, get C Jig up, and kite as long as I need to. In most cases this isn't worth it, though, since there's a high risk for the mob to go yellow with no DoT on it and Briareus always has dudes looking to steal, but the point is that in any case I'd want to kite, it's better to never get swung at at all than to not get swung at very much, and a no-delay CJig would be UNREAL for this, much like Flee already is.

The reasons why CJig is REALLY powerful in Abyssea even with the 5-second delay involve running down claims. These include, but are not limited to:

-Competitive timed spawns that DNC is capable of soloing as /WAR for procs, even with links (Gukumatz, Heqet, Amun, probably not Tunga), or maybe even just for various +2 drops as necessary (Scars Ironclads, Turul, Fuath's a favorite)
-Avatars, particularly Bhumi, since there is no other way to efficiently build Amber in Tahrongi Canyon
-VNMs, which are important for a variety of reasons, such as Ochain/Daurdabla or efficient Pearlescent building for cleaving
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY
-being able to get back and forth from camping these things so that you can do something else for ten minutes after the kill and be back on point, ready to claim when it repops, rather than sitting around like a mook

so yeah, capped Amber and 50-60 pearl in about 20 minutes solo before I start aeolian edge cleaving, in the middle of a bunch of people going after the same light mobs. Chocobo Jig rules.


Will write more later

[Jamesy]

Until Jamesy showed up and spilled out some semi-literate crazy, it was just you and Sotek typing up novels. Pretty much everyone else has been like "hey that's cool" or "eh, not really a big deal" in a sentence or two. I'm not really sure what exactly it is you're trying to do here, all running up and flailing your arms around like silverback gorilla, but by all means continue thinking you're fighting the good fight, I guess.

Also, if you could give me some bullet points on how you "destroyed my argument" that would be helpful because there's no way I'm reading all that. I might even be inclined to give those an adequate response; I'm not spending twenty minutes typing up detailed rebuttals to somebody who leveled DNC to 90 and yet apparently doesn't realize that Animated Flourish is a Provoke. I did, however, see you typed "for the love of Altana" at the end, which is FFXI Playerese for "please shove me in a locker", so that was helpful.


a. thank you for proving my point that you are indeed a moron, because everything i typed was completely literate. do you understand what the word literate means?

b. reason why i said your suggestion was laughable is because its never going to happen and anyone with basic reasoning and logistic skills would understand lowering the level of chocobo jig would be idiotic. since you didn't understand my analogy here is another.

you are asking square enix when you ask "can you lower the level of chocobo jig?" you are also asking for them to lower the level of raptor mazurka, chocobo mazurka, blitzer's roll, and Fleet wind to subjob use levels which entirely makes no sense to do. oh and by the way calling people intellectually inferior doesn't make you seem more intelligent in fact it makes you look even more like an idiot and makes people want to say use your brain before speaking because if you did before posting this thread you would have realized it was a dumb idea.

[scaevola]

a. thank you for proving my point that you are indeed a moron, because everything i typed was completely literate. do you understand what the word literate means?

b. reason why i said your suggestion was laughable is because its never going to happen and anyone with basic reasoning and logistic skills would understand lowering the level of chocobo jig would be idiotic. since you didn't understand my analogy here is another.

you are asking square enix when you ask "can you lower the level of chocobo jig?" you are also asking for them to lower the level of raptor mazurka, chocobo mazurka, blitzer's roll, and Fleet wind to subjob use levels which entirely makes no sense to do. oh and by the way calling people intellectually inferior doesn't make you seem more intelligent in fact it makes you look even more like an idiot and makes people want to say use your brain before speaking because if you did before posting this thread you would have realized it was a dumb idea.

I am calling you a semi-literate because while I'm not exactly a nazi about sentence structure, paragraph breaks, etc., you disregard it to the point where I have to question whether you're even interested in anybody (least of all me) reading what you've posted.

I called you a psycho because you're clearly in such a hurry to take me down a peg over suggesting CJig's level be reduced that you forgot to explain why you think it's a bad idea. The closest you get is analogizing it to requesting Raptor Mazurka be removed and replaced at level 37 with Chocobo Mazurka, but then you don't explain why you actually think that would be bad. That's pretty psychotic!

(for the record, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with Bolter's Roll/Fleet Wind having their levels reduced, but it's crazy to suggest there's no difference between a movement self-buff and a movement group-buff)

[Sotek]

Will write more later

Better be good, because right now all you're doing is listing a bunch of reasons Chocobo Jig, and thus DNC, are good in Abyssea. In other words, reasons SE will use alongside 'balance' when they tell you they're not going to lower the level of Chocobo Jig.

[scaevola]

ANYWAY


See, that's what I don't get. Why are they running over at all?
Lets take Abyssea for an example, back when Heqet/etc were worth camping (before the respawn rate was lowered, etc) you didn't solo it.

Haha, yes, of course, nobody ever considered Heqet and Gukumatz* worth camping competitively after December 2010! All those thousands of Kannagis and Masamunes were at 85 ready to go when December 2010 rolled around!

You and I could find common ground much easier if you were not arguing from assumptions that are easily disprovable.




You don't solo it anyway, not if you're seriously after key items (which you claimed to be selling).

DNC/WAR has 7 red procs with the Event spear, pop KIs have a reasonably high drop rate even with no proc, and even if I don't get it, boo hoo I'll have to wait 15 minutes and grab the next one.


Any group serious enough about getting that crap done would have out claimed you easily, they'd have had more than enough people to completely cover the spawn area simply through having all procs covered. Congratulations on out claiming the dudes dualboxing WHM and MNK, I guess.

uh.....k?

There are a few variables you haven't considered that I will see if you can figure out before I explain them.


I've solo-camped plenty of NMs, Mee Degi used to be my bread and butter. Movement speed wouldn't have made a damn difference, either it spawned in front of you or it spawned in front of someone else. Running to it faster wouldn't do a damn thing.

haha

it's easy for you to think this because at the time you could camp mee deggi for profit dancer did not exist

EDIT: in fairness, I'll mention that it's a much different animal to camp an NM that could pop at any time between 2 hours after its last ToD and the heat death of the universe, and CJig is less useful in that situation than in one where you know when the NM will pop down to the second (like in Abyssea) so you can have it up and ready to go in preparation.

There are, of course, times when you just get unlucky and the NM pops on top of somebody else. When you are considering the camp in terms of dozens of pops, however, the person who thinks it's all luck is somebody with whom I would like to play Texas Hold'em.....or have in the zone while I'm farming for a Prouesse Ring.


The only possible situation I can understand what you're saying is in the case of something that is hardly being camped, but you're claiming to have sold key items and the only reason I've ever seen something like Gukumatz without a dozen different people camping it is because of timezone differences. In this day and age I can't even think of many NMs worth camping, the most glaring example would be Trials NMs, but you can team up for them.

I don't really know what to tell you. Go on thinking that having the ability to move faster towards a target than an equidistant opponent doesn't matter and I'll go on understanding, uh, the history of all competition between relatively equal parties, I guess...?


I'm pretty sure Jamesy is right on the money with that last analogy. The best I think will come out of this thread is Raptor Jig at Lv.37 or something. You can't seriously go about bragging about the claiming potential of Chocobo Jig and expect SE to turn around with anything other than; "As Chocobo Jig gives DNCs an advantage when camping NMs, we do not think it would be fair to DNCs to reduce the level it is learned", can you? You've pretty much doomed your own suggestion, regardless of what I think.

No, because as I said in my first post, the utility of /DNC in Abyssea even with CJig is so limited for everything BUT claiming that I believe it balances out. It has no procs and it's easy to forget that things in Abyssea actually hit pretty hard; 50 TP to heal 300 HP is for complete suckers, especially when Mounted Champion (or better yet, /WHM or /RDM with a refresh atma!) exists. Barely matters at this point, anyway.

Where it WOULD matter is Neo Nyzul, but that honestly doesn't bother me because Neo Nyzul is, writ large, basically impossible to clear currently without straight up cheating, and the main reason for that is

wait for it

unrealistic expectations based on out-of-combat movement speed.

I also reiterate the biggest problem with Jamesy's post: whether or not his mazurka analogy is apt, he doesn't explain why it would actually be a bad thing for CMazurka to be available at 49.


Of course, since I simply suggest /sprint as purely a QoL 'get there faster' adjustment, I'd say they can still add that. I don't buy it trivializing Flee at all, but lets address that anyway; "/sprint cannot take effect when the player has hate". There we go, unless you've already lost hate, you can't get the movement speed bonus from it.

The game does not have a "combat flag"....


Can still use it to claim NMs? Doesn't matter, everyone has it and Chocobo Jig can still give an advantage by simply being faster than /sprint or stacking with it. Failing that; "Players cannot engage enemies or use abilities with /sprint in effect".

...nor does it give any indication that it has some sort of mechanism that could code a block on engaging an enemy.

Regardless, you are suggesting solutions that are FAR more complicated than mine (as well as not being restricted to level 99 characters, which is meaningful for several tangential reasons I won't bore you with), which isn't bad per se but is puzzling coming from the person whose initial objection was that this would take too much of the devs' time. You are really, really reaching for a reason to continue this debate and I can't for the life of me figure out why.


If this thread was initially about getting about faster, then fair enough, I'm pretty sure I just covered that for everyone, not just jobs able to /DNC. If it was about you being able to claim NMs on jobs other than DNC, then good luck, because SE sure as hell isn't going to do that anytime soon.

The suggestion is indeed entirely about getting from Point A to Point B faster, because, again, /DNC is very weak and there are very few situations (other than Neo Nyzul) where you would go /DNC OTHER than the QoL issues of Spectral Jig and a light self-heal outside Abyssea right now.

For what it's worth, I believe DNC main would be fine if this change went live, because while being the Guy that Gets There First is indeed the most important part of the equation, you also need to be able to handle yourself when you get there, which is of course what DNC is really designed to do. Were I solo camping I'd still go as a DNC main for anything non-trivial; otherwise I'd go THF/DNC.




*and I prefered not to camp Heqet, only going over there between Guku deaths; Gukumatz was much better, because he was surrounded by aggroing mobs I neatly avoided via an instant self-cast sneak/invis

[scaevola]

Better be good, because right now all you're doing is listing a bunch of reasons Chocobo Jig, and thus DNC, are good in Abyssea. In other words, reasons SE will use alongside 'balance' when they tell you they're not going to lower the level of Chocobo Jig.

The first part is giving a few examples of why CJig needs its "cast time" and thus /sprint would be totally broken, and the second part is giving some situations in which CJig (and OOC movement speed in general) is really great, and how running around in general is still important for a lot of different aspects of this game right now.

The only one it's technically NOT useful for is voidwatch, but you're lying if you don't think the "at rift, brb pooping" element is amazing (or would be if I went DNC to voidwatch very often :( ).

The counter-argument against BALANCELOL is that /DNC is just really not that good in Abyssea; Spectral Jig and Violent Flourish are really all it's got going for it right now.

[Jamesy]

well honestly majority of reasoning is balance not most low level jobs other then bard are commonly associated with movement speed other then thf's flee effect. my honest opinion is square enix wouldn't do this because part of the difficulty that this game used to maintain was movement or getting around which is partly why so many people were banned for flee hacking back when it was popular. plain and simple se wants restrictions on movement simple as that they don't want people being able to run flashing around everywhere in the game because it would make certain things a too easy or blurr an aspect of a job in square enix eyes somethings on jobs are meant to be shared and some aren't.

i dont know about you but /dnc is very good you have a source of hp return, stun and enfeebling if those arent good aspects of a support sub i dont know what is not to mention haste samba

[scaevola]

well honestly majority of reasoning is balance not most low level jobs other then bard are commonly associated with movement speed other then thf's flee effect. my honest opinion is square enix wouldn't do this because part of the difficulty that this game used to maintain was movement or getting around which is partly why so many people were banned for flee hacking back when it was popular. plain and simple se wants restrictions on movement simple as that they don't want people being able to run flashing around everywhere in the game because it would make certain things a too easy or blurr an aspect of a job in square enix eyes somethings on jobs are meant to be shared and some aren't.

Yeah, they totally don't want to make it easier for people to get around outside of combat....which is why they added group movement buffs and warps to very nearly every single zone in the game.


i dont know about you but /dnc is very good you have a source of hp return, stun and enfeebling if those arent good aspects of a support sub i dont know what is not to mention haste samba

Or you could use /RDM and get a better heal that doesn't eat your TP, as well as a Haste that's three times as powerful.

/DNC makes sense for non-native dual wielders (and caught a HUGE buff relative to other self-heal subs with Oynos Knife) and Curing Waltz III is still pretty decent in Signet/Sigil situations, but 50 TP for 300 HP in Abyssea is straight-up terrible.

[Sotek]

Haha, yes, of course, nobody ever considered Heqet and Gukumatz worth camping competitively after December 2010! All those thousands of Kannagis and Masamunes were at 85 ready to go when December 2010 rolled around!

No, but anyone willing to pay for key items from a 10~15 minute respawn NM is a complete and utter moron. Honest query, how many of your clients were in Perle/Aurore?
Didn't they also finally add spawned NM key items to chests at some point? I seem to remember getting some when leveling to 99 and I can't for the life of me imagine people payed for key items if they always dropped from chests. Not sure if I'm imagining that so feel free to ignore it.


uh.....k?

There are a few variables you haven't considered that I will see if you can figure out before I explain them.

Right so, you can forgo a pop by failing to stagger it and its OK to wait 15 minutes, but my party would find it unacceptable for me to claim something, while already having the key item, instead of the competition getting it.
Ignoring methods of getting the key item to someone else (stupid methods, but they worked plenty of times), you're soloing and you can only carry one key item. Considering the rest of the key items were trivial to obtain, we could leave someone to get ToD and go deal with my Sobek or Cirein-croin quite easily. Cirein-croin it might have meant missing a Heqet spawn, but Sobek could easily be dealt with before the next Gukumatz pop iirc.


I don't really know what to tell you. Go on thinking that having the ability to move faster towards a target than an equidistant someone else doesn't matter and I'll go on understanding, uh, the history of all competition between relatively equal parties, I guess...?

If we're standing in the same place and it spawns out of range then sure, movement speed is going to make a difference verse me, but if you get the claim its not because I didn't have movement speed, its because someone in my party wasn't paying attention. So movement speed gives you an advantage when people aren't paying attention, which on NMs with very fixed spawn times, shouldn't be an issue.


Where it WOULD matter is Neo Nyzul, but that honestly doesn't bother me because Neo Nyzul is, writ large, basically impossible to clear currently without straight up cheating, and the main reason for that is

wait for it

unrealistic expectations based on out-of-combat movement speed.

Is that another joke like Dusk Gloves?
Ignoring how much more realistic Neo Nyzul is now, why would Chocobo Jig make a damn difference? Bring a BRD instead, they're actually useful and everyone wont be locked for 5 seconds after every mob, not to mention they'll have a functionally useful subjob. Chocobo Jig would be more of a hindrance if anything, in my opinion.


The game does not have a "combat flag"....

Maybe not (though they found a way to trigger battle music without engaging an enemy, so maybe), but I'm obviously not too serious about this suggestion. We have a /blockaid function, /sprint could simply act as a /blockclaim, use it for kiting and the mob instantly turns yellow.


...nor does it give any indication that it has some sort of mechanism that could code a block on engaging an enemy.

To be honest, it doesn't need to. Blocking abilites/magic (both existing status effects) would be enough unless you think you can claim mobs by engaging and swinging at them? Regardless, if /blockclaim was doable it would address this to I imagine.


Regardless, you are suggesting solutions that are FAR more complicated than mine (as well as not being restricted to level 99 characters, which is meaningful for several tangential reasons I won't bore you with), which isn't bad per se but is puzzling coming from the person whose initial objection was that this would take too much of the devs' time. You are really, really reaching for a reason to continue this debate and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

True, I'd rather the development team not waste time on any of these things when there are dozens of things it should take them seconds to fix, but regardless of what I want the development team is going to waste time on new status icons and more stupidity like race specific emotes (I hope I didn't just give them an idea). Even if I'd rather they not bother with this, I view /sprint as a superior adjustment than Chocobo Jig simply because its accessible to everyone regardless of job or level and the apparent issue here is how everyone in FFXI is forced to "trudge around in slow motion", even if that was a joke. If they consider anything, I'd rather it be /sprint, even if I'd rather they not consider it at all.


The counter-argument against BALANCELOL is that /DNC is just really not that good in Abyssea; Spectral Jig and Violent Flourish are really all it's got going for it right now.

I'm sure I don't need to point out that there is no counter-argument against barance. This is SE we're talking about here.
Off the top of my head, WAR, DRK and PLD would all have equal or more procs, with jobs like SAM and NIN not falling far behind, though in terms of damage and survivability both SAM/DNC and NIN/DNC would probably trump DNC/WAR at the cost of 2 (?) procs. PLD, NIN and SAM would certainly benefit greatly I imagine, BLU and WHM might as well but I can't be asked to look up their stagger options, I can't imagine they'd have any difficulty surviving /DNC though. Considering DNC/WAR itself still misses procs, that's all probably a moot point anyway, its more likely it comes down to what can survive /DNC, in which case I'd add MNK, RDM and BST to the list. So that's 8 jobs that would gain the benefit of Chocobo Jig with hardly any drawbacks? I'm sure we'll disagree on that point as well, but yeah, DNC would hardly be untouched if they did lower the level of Chocobo Jig. As usual SAM and NIN would be getting nice bonuses.

[Savlyn]

At this point, it really is just easier to stop arguing with him. He will never realize the error of his thought processes. His is always right, because he is the most brilliant person on the planet obviously. Never mind the fact that everyone who posts here either argues with him over how idiotic his comments are, or ignores his idiotic comments and just says "yes, this is a good suggestion". I am really about to just make a real Choco jig suggestion thread since this one actually offers no reasons that it should be lowered other than the fact that he wants it on other jobs.

Long story short: he will never learn.

[scaevola]

"being able to walk around faster regardless of job by setting a semi-functional subjob already designed for convenience and self-reliance would make everybody's life a little easier, and would be really easy to implement because an ability that would do exactly that already exists"

or if you prefer

"swift shoes rules can we have more of that plz"

happy now, poindexter

[Sotek]

Still failing to see how a subjob that has no place on any mage job or any jobs like DRG is benefiting everybody, certainly not benefiting everybody equally, at least.
Now, a /sprint function on the other hand... It does benefit everybody, they don't have to worry about disproportionately benefiting different jobs with it (also know as balance) and they don't have to worry about any potential outcry from the DNC forums, as unlikely as that may be. It's already in the game and having it do exactly the same thing disengage does to a claimed monster would be so difficult, but yeah, swift shoes rules. Lets get more of that shit.

[scaevola]

No, but anyone willing to pay for key items from a 10~15 minute respawn NM is a complete and utter moron. Honest query, how many of your clients were in Perle/Aurore?
Didn't they also finally add spawned NM key items to chests at some point? I seem to remember getting some when leveling to 99 and I can't for the life of me imagine people payed for key items if they always dropped from chests. Not sure if I'm imagining that so feel free to ignore it.

Business didn't really pick up until after the Dynamis revamp (before May I'd usually "sell" for a few +2 drops) but after that, people gladly offered 4-600k for a full popset.

Where were you that people WEREN'T constantly offering 500k+ fo a sobek skin in PJ /shouts?

SLASH SHRUG




Right so, you can forgo a pop by failing to stagger it and its OK to wait 15 minutes, but my party would find it unacceptable for me to claim something, while already having the key item, instead of the competition getting it.

lol confirmation bias but I'd say it's at least 50/50 with no stagger. It is ALWAYS better to claim a timed spawn with suboptimal procs than it is to have optimal procs and lose it, or worse yet, not even bother showing up because your WAR had RL issues .


gnoring methods of getting the key item to someone else (stupid methods, but they worked plenty of times),

Except when I am on your grill with Animated Flourish and the fastest attack speed in the game!


soloing and you can only carry one key item. Considering the rest of the key items were trivial to obtain, we could leave someone to get ToD and go deal with my Sobek or Cirein-croin quite easily. Cirein-croin it might have meant missing a Heqet spawn, but Sobek could easily be dealt with before the next Gukumatz pop iirc.

..and get them so long as I'm out of the mix, sure. Once I get my KI, what do I care until I sell it off?




If we're standing in the same place and it spawns out of range then sure, movement speed is going to make a difference verse me, but if you get the claim its not because I didn't have movement speed, its because someone in my party wasn't paying attention. So movement speed gives you an advantage when people aren't paying attention, which on NMs with very fixed spawn times, shouldn't be an issue.

I don't especially care what you think of this (like I said, I got rich off idiots like you), but out of curiosity, what exactly would I have to show to convince you you're wrong?




Ignoring how much more realistic Neo Nyzul is now, why would Chocobo Jig make a damn difference? Bring a BRD instead, they're actually useful and everyone wont be locked for 5 seconds after every mob, not to mention they'll have a functionally useful subjob. Chocobo Jig would be more of a hindrance if anything, in my opinion.

To get to Floor 100 in Neo Nyzul, you need to clear on average of twenty floors in 30 minutes. BRD doesn't work, because you need to split up at the very least (SCH x 2 is in nearly all winning setups for back-to-back embrava, not just for the damage but for the insane Regen) and mazurka fades once you get in combat.

At the end of the day, the issue is not kill speed (though some high-level NMs can fuck you and eat a few minutes), but that twenty floors of Nyzul is a lot of ground to walk. I won't get into specifics because I'm not a snitch, but I have yet to see a post from somebody who hit Floor 100 who was NOT incredibly open about using third party programs that can't be considered anything other than cheating.

No judgments; I have no problem with cheating an unfair system. But, there it is. A clean Floor 100 won't be viable until they add 15 minutes to the clock but the option to CJig via subjob would go a long way to make hitting Floor 80 feasible, I think.



True, I'd rather the development team not waste time on any of these things when there are dozens of things it should take them seconds to fix, but regardless of what I want the development team is going to waste time on new status icons and more stupidity like race specific emotes (I hope I didn't just give them an idea).

Again with the strawman. If this is your position, why ever suggest anything at all? Why are you posting in this thread?


Even if I'd rather they not bother with this, I view /sprint as a superior adjustment than Chocobo Jig simply because its accessible to everyone regardless of job or level and the apparent issue here is how everyone in FFXI is forced to "trudge around in slow motion", even if that was a joke.

Ok, make CJig 30. Or 1. Whatever. I thought this was the sort of thing that ought to be limited and require a specific choice of subjob*, because as I have bent over backwards to show you, OOC movement speed is REALLY GOOD and this is the easiest, least spaghetti-code-ey way to bring it to the people.



I'm sure I don't need to point out that there is no counter-argument against barance. This is SE we're talking about here.

No, you're just invoking BARANCE as a talisman against having to actually defend your position that this would be a bad idea. Pretty common among the morons that play this game.


Off the top of my head, WAR, DRK and PLD would all have equal or more procs, with jobs like SAM and NIN not falling far behind, though in terms of damage and survivability both SAM/DNC and NIN/DNC would probably trump DNC/WAR at the cost of 2 (?) procs. PLD, NIN and SAM would certainly benefit greatly I imagine, BLU and WHM might as well but I can't be asked to look up their stagger options, I can't imagine they'd have any difficulty surviving /DNC though.

The idea that SAM/DNC has more survivability than DNC/WAR in general is pretty lolworthy (allow me to introduce you to my friends, capped evasion and fan dance), but particularly in Abyssea where, again, a 50 TP Curing Waltz III for 300 health is totally irrelevant and DNC's TP generation absolutely annihilates SAM's.*




Considering DNC/WAR itself still misses procs, that's all probably a moot point anyway, its more likely it comes down to what can survive /DNC, in which case I'd add MNK, RDM and BST to the list.

I pity the paralysis you seem to feel at the idea of doing anything ever with less than every single proc.

(insert joke about you playing SCH)


So that's 8 jobs that would gain the benefit of Chocobo Jig with hardly any drawbacks? I'm sure we'll disagree on that point as well, but yeah, DNC would hardly be untouched if they did lower the level of Chocobo Jig. As usual SAM and NIN would be getting nice bonuses.

While I may quibble with some specifics on reflection, I would have absolutely no problem with this as a necessary trade-off to bringing the joy of +25% movement speed to the children of the world.



*not for nothing, if this were available at level 1 you just know somebody would find a way to bitch about RMT

**seriously DNC is a job that gets Meditate on a 30-second cooldown, man

[scaevola]

Still failing to see how a subjob that has no place on any mage job or any jobs like DRG is benefiting everybody, certainly not benefiting everybody equally, at least.

I would be 100% fine with RDM or SCH getting a self-cast movement buff spell at 49.

Maybe you should make a thread for that rather than shitting yourself over Libra, a JA that, in the world of even light DDs capping enmity in under a minute, will remain worthless regardless of how big its range is.


Now, a /sprint function on the other hand... It does benefit everybody, they don't have to worry about disproportionately benefiting different jobs with it (also know as balance) and they don't have to worry about any potential outcry from the DNC forums, as unlikely as that may be. It's already in the game and having it do exactly the same thing disengage does to a claimed monster would be so difficult

Path of Greatest Resistance issues aside, you know what sounds like a huge benefit to my quality of life? A macro I have to hit every 10 seconds or so to walk around a little faster. I'm sure my computer will love processing 80 incoming JAs a second when I'm in Port Jeuno!

[Sotek]

Shitting myself over Libra? Haha! The only time I've ever done that is when they added the worthless thing, the fact that they never even intended me to use it by giving it such an idiotic range is just the icing on the cake. But yeah, clearly that one time I mentioned Libra on page 2 was full of mad, not like I pretty much immediately stated that it was just one of a dozen examples of idiotically simple things SE failed to address time and time again while they added those much needed job emotes.

But yeah, I should cover a flaw in your suggestion by suggesting a mage alternative, despite the fact /sprint already acts as the perfect alternative. Oh but of course, I never specified anything on its duration, so of course it's complete tripe.
Glad to see you're at least accepting the limits of your own suggestion. If this game can't handle one extra slot on the AH, it damn sure can't handle the zone line to Port Jeuno being an even bigger lag spike than it currently is due to JA spam, the last thing SE needs is the FFXI servers setting on fire, again.

Good luck finding a better flaw than "But I'd have to hit my macro lots ;(" with /sprint. I'd continue playing devils advocate with you, but it's late and this thread is starting to circle.

[Fupafighter]

If you have the proper teleports, warps, OP warps, VW warps, Items, you don't need mega movement speed to get almost ANYWHERE in this game in lesss than 5 minutes lol. But for doing quest/missions in town, dnc is superior haha. I love being on dnc to get places faster, but I will not main the job because of it >.>

[scaevola]

oh also


No, but anyone willing to pay for key items from a 10~15 minute respawn NM is a complete and utter moron. Honest query, how many of your clients were in Perle/Aurore?


Most of them were in +2 with the odd +1 by mid-summer, when I was selling about 4 or 5 popsets a week.

Gil is cheap, time is not.

[Bizniztyme]

It will definitely make doing those crazy repeatable fame quests in abyssea much more bearable if you dont have dancer leveled passed 49. Just chiming in a thought. :)

[Zerich]

they already have the sprint shoes if you want to have the quickening effect on every character. NEXT

[Bizniztyme]

they already have the sprint shoes if you want to have the quickening effect on every character. NEXT

Isn't sprinter's shoes +12% and chocobo jig is 25%, i might be wrong but yeah, i totally forgot about sprinter's shoes.

[Glamdring]

at OP, I absolutely vote no on this. if you're too lazy to play a job because it takes 22 seconds more to cross a zone that's your issue. but this is such a total non-issue in regards to the important fixes in the game that is SE wastes any time on this they deserve to go out of business.

Not to mention, what would you whine about if they "took away" the enhanced movement speed advantage of levelled dancers by giving it to anyone who wants to /dnc? seriously, /dnc is at least half of what's responsible for this game being dumbed down to the equivalent of "quarters" at the local frat house.

[Alhanelem]

This stopped being about the original topic a lot faster than I expected, lol

[Tamoa]

If it's about giving other jobs the benefit of Chocobo Jig, then the disadvantages of subbing dnc outweighs the advantages. Take neo-nyzul - the argument is that the enhanced movement speed would be an advantage. I'm war for neo-nyzul - and why on earth would I want to totally gimp myself by subbing dnc? I'd lose important JAs such as hasso, meditate, sekkanoki and not to mention losing my 6 hit build. I dare say that subbing dnc would severely gimp my damage output and slower kills means the advantage of having Chocobo Jig would pretty much be lost.

Nin/dnc? Useful in certain solo situations (stunning and self-cure), and for dynamis. It's also ok for voidwatch, for staggering purposes - however, in abyssea a nin/dnc will lose several red procs.

Saying that by using Chocobo Jig you can outclaim others, is in my opinion such a pointless and wtf argument for lowering the JA to subjob level that I don't really know what to think.

If it's about getting from A to B faster, swap to dnc main.


Edit: to clarify, I don't care if Chocobo Jig is moved to level 49 (or lower) or not. It's not going to make me sub dnc more than I already do - which is for campaign, dynamis and easy solo fights.

[Savlyn]

This stopped being about the original topic a lot faster than I expected, lol

It was never about the posted topic lol His title said suggestion, but then his first post was pretty much:

"I play DNC because of movement speed, and without it, all other jobs are terrible.

Doing this would benefit everyone, especially me, so that I can play other jobs."

[cidbahamut]

Yeah, but the terribly slow movement speed of characters in this game is a valid complaint.

[Fupafighter]

If it's about giving other jobs the benefit of Chocobo Jig, then the disadvantages of subbing dnc outweighs the advantages. Take neo-nyzul - the argument is that the enhanced movement speed would be an advantage. I'm war for neo-nyzul - and why on earth would I want to totally gimp myself by subbing dnc? I'd lose important JAs such as hasso, meditate, sekkanoki and not to mention losing my 6 hit build. I dare say that subbing dnc would severely gimp my damage output and slower kills means the advantage of having Chocobo Jig would pretty much be lost.

Nin/dnc? Useful in certain solo situations (stunning and self-cure), and for dynamis. It's also ok for voidwatch, for staggering purposes - however, in abyssea a nin/dnc will lose several red procs.

Saying that by using Chocobo Jig you can outclaim others, is in my opinion such a pointless and wtf argument for lowering the JA to subjob level that I don't really know what to think.

If it's about getting from A to B faster, swap to dnc main.


Edit: to clarify, I don't care if Chocobo Jig is moved to level 49 (or lower) or not. It's not going to make me sub dnc more than I already do - which is for campaign, dynamis and easy solo fights.
Just an FYI, If you're not using a decked out sch with embrava in neo-nyzle, you're probably not getting 100 anytime soon, so 6 hit, hasso, basically all x hit builds fly the F out the window, so you get sekkanaki /sam basically. SO if they did give dnc jig at 49, I GUARENTEE you every heavy DD would sub dnc in neo nyzle with a proper setup.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Just an FYI, If you're not using a decked out sch with embrava in neo-nyzle, you're probably not getting 100 anytime soon, so 6 hit, hasso, basically all x hit builds fly the F out the window, so you get sekkanaki /sam basically. SO if they did give dnc jig at 49, I GUARENTEE you every heavy DD would sub dnc in neo nyzle with a proper setup.


There's a reason people don't take you seriously, and it's because you make statements like these.

[Tamoa]

Just an FYI, If you're not using a decked out sch with embrava in neo-nyzle, you're probably not getting 100 anytime soon, so 6 hit, hasso, basically all x hit builds fly the F out the window, so you get sekkanaki /sam basically. SO if they did give dnc jig at 49, I GUARENTEE you every heavy DD would sub dnc in neo nyzle with a proper setup.


Just a FYI, I already have full Phorcys set plus some other misc pieces - our nyzul group only has ONE sch though, and embrava doesn't last a full run as you probably know. In other words, we do just fine (seeing as it's something like 3 weeks or so since we started doing neo-nyzul together).

[Alhanelem]

Yeah, but the terribly slow movement speed of characters in this game is a valid complaint.

The best thing to do would be to increase the base movement speed, but the problem with that is it throws the scaling of the world out of whack (e.g. your character walks across a room in a few steps)

[Fupafighter]

Haha cool. Im jelly you have phorcys. My point was that UNDER EMBRAVA, x hit wont matter much :) What's your setup for 1 sch?

[Fupafighter]

There's a reason people don't take you seriously, and it's because you make statements like these.

I was saying with neo nyzle, /dnc with jig would be very good, as movement speed is crucial in neo nyzle, opposed to things like hasso not being so effective as you basically have haste cap. How is that a bad statement?