Provenance Watcher~

[Dew]

This bc is crappy like the rest of voidwatch. Already at 7 kills, all the drops I got to show for it is logs and rocks. Good job SE. Killing big dragon yields logs and rocks. Such amazing and awsome loot. Won't be surprised when it takes 30 kills to see a staff and staff rains from that bc for everyone else.

Amazing job with content as always SE. Do tons of runs and you might see something that doesn't resemble a rock or log. Difficult battles are nice and all, but when you get logs and rocks for all of your hard work something is wrong.

[saevel]

It's artificial difficulty. Instead of implementing a weekly cooldown timer they instead restrict the drop rates to ridiculously low levels. Accomplishes the same goal in the end which is to force you to keep playing and make acquiring those rewards take a long time. The gamblers fallacy will have you coming back over and over again.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

What did you expect them to do?

Work on content that you can repeat as much as you want and give you the best drop rate ever.

[Karbuncle]

What did you expect them to do?

Work on content that you can repeat as much as you want and give you the best drop rate ever.

No, heaven forbid they attempt in the slightest to make the game enjoyable and rewarding, Instead of heaping piles of blood, anger and rage that it currently is.

Thats just plain retarded. I see where you're coming from.

However, sarcasm aside, Like Narnia, theres this magical land of middle ground that other games regularly find, and SE dances around repeatedly. I think the only upside to the latest battlefields is the NMs themselves have a drop pool on top of their Box-Drop Pool.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No, heaven forbid they attempt in the slightest to make the game enjoyable and rewarding, Instead of heaping piles of blood, anger and rage that it currently is.

Thats just plain retarded. I see where you're coming from.

However, sarcasm aside, Like Narnia, theres this magical land of middle ground that other games regularly find, and SE dances around repeatedly. I think the only upside to the latest battlefields is the NMs themselves have a drop pool on top of their Box-Drop Pool.

When it's one of the few things left in the game people do they will milk it as long as possible until they have multiple versions of endgame content. They are NOT going to allow people to easily complete, and finish Voidwatch when all it will lead to is people having nothing to do and leave.

They could have used the way the game actually should have been and made it at lease somewhat difficult and therefore a better drop rate, but the majority of players will then moan about it being too hard.

Abyssea wont happen ever again, SE are making damn sure of that now.

[svengalis]

What did you expect them to do?

Work on content that you can repeat as much as you want and give you the best drop rate ever.

If you were getting the items you wanted you probably wouldn't be repeating it...

[Elexia]

I'm going to be blunt. I love SE and FFXI but...let's take a retrospective....

Step 1 - Complete Voidwatch in the 3 Nations from tier 1 - 4...
Step 2 - Complete Voidwatch in Jeuno Tier 1 - 6....
Step 3 - Complete Zilart, CoP and ToAU Voidwatch if you want more Temps etc...
Step 4 - Get a bunch of cutscenes inbetween, some lasting a rl hour if you don't time it correctly (whats the purpose of this?)
Step 5 - After you've vendored all of your billions of logs, rocks, gems and kitrons, obtained your fancy armor 1/320 on every tier NM..sold millions of heavy metal plates and rift sand..you come to the land where vanadiel was created and will be destroyed, fighting more caturaes....and fighting the manifestation of the mothercrystal....

I THINK WE'VE EARNED THE FU***** RIGHT NOT TO GET A GOD DAMN LOG OR FU**** RED ROCK ONTOP OF A LOW DROP RATE TO A UNIVERSAL POOL WHICH COULD ALSO COME FROM PERSONAL LOOT (it doesn't) FOR A REWARD IN THIS INSTANCE.

Excuse my german. Seriously though, no. Get these logs and rocks out of this loot list.


If you were getting the items you wanted you probably wouldn't be repeating it...

No my dear, if I was getting the gear I wanted and the fight was fun you can be damn sure I would repeat it of my own free will. I'm repeating things now because I have to if I ever want to see something...but it's almost not worth the trouble of doing this.

They should just let you use 1 pertifact as an entry to this fight..not like the rewards are any different and saves newer players or those who missed the VW train the trouble of trying to get clears for almost no reward >.> People are indeed GETTING LUCKY with this and going 1/1 or even 1/12..but the mere fact you defeat all creation and get a fuc*** log? REALLY?

[Zumi]

Would you rather have a week lockout like they do on WoW, but guaranteed drops? You can only kill the boss once a week only to have the fight reset.

Its a MMO they have to stall your gear progression somehow either lockouts or crap drop rates and in FFXI's case its crap drop rates.

[Elexia]

This is the thing though, it's not about the lock out or stalling progressing..it's the fact the rewards are not worth the time investiment or effort put into even accessing the damn thing. It's all based on luck with 100% guarantee of getting shit for drops that you can get from a random chest in Ronfaure as a level 1.

This should not be the case. In any MMO. Ever. I should not be getting rewards in a raid designed for level 99s that I got at level 1.

[Helel]

I'd prefer weekly lockout tbh. The fight is hardly challenging or fun; why prolong the suffering?

[Luvbunny]

Obviously they have learned NOTHING. They created Abyssea, perfect content that keeps people coming back for more and more and more. Now they vowed to never do that again - silly me, but if you created perfect blockbuster, you repeat it again with slight variation and not going back to the old ways of FFXI. Oh never mind, they are trying to move us all to FF14 Version 2.0, good luck with that.

[Asymptotic]

It could at least drop cruor.

[scaevola]

If you were getting the items you wanted you probably wouldn't be repeating it...

The thing is, Voidwatch really is pretty rewarding given the time investment via cruor rewards and is pretty fun besides, so I could easily see people continuing to pugfarm mid-tier stuff like Kaggen or Qilin or stuff with worthwhile rares like Lamorak or Belphoebe long after they get their ultra-rare drops, just like they did with every other NM except now you can warp right to the pop area, kill four times, and get out with 50k cruor + whatever else in a half hour. The great irony of Voidwatch's problems is that the event really is quite rewarding, but it's totally undermined by frustrating the players' natural inclination to set goals for themselves.

I agree that Provenance Watcher specifically would probably rot, though.

[Elexia]

Lol yes because we go into doing VW with aspirations of collecting every log in this game, right?

[scaevola]

We go into voidwatch with the aspiration of getting 50-70k cruor in about a half hour, with a chance (often a fairly substantial one!) to get uncontested items that are either rare/ex and are the best in the game or are rare and very close to the best (or can be used to craft said items) that we sell for seven figures.

I mean come on, it's not perfect but to act like it was all time better spent in other events if you never get a Meikogai is just silly.

[Tile]

It could at least drop cruor.

this, there is no reward for doing them unless you win a lot, atleast super Cruor and exp would be nice.

[Asymptotic]

Well you do get your own chest, but it's usually full of logs. Although I can hardly complain, because I've gotten a sword.

[macross]

They could have removed personal chests, and just have the dragon drop 1-2 things.

[MarkovChain]

Won't be surprised when it takes 30 kills to see a staff and staff rains from that bc for everyone else.

Melee SMN, I hear there is a melee rdm sword too. Now seriously, go back to nyzlulz for gear. I think the only purpose of the final chapter is to provide the world with scrolls of meteor and arise, just like the purpose of previous tiers is to provide the world with metal plates and cinder/dross. I've always said the gear from VW is mostly junk, it's not only due to pebbles. However I admit there are a few intersting drops in there, but not necessarily the best either, nyzul put the bar pretty high.

But seriously, melee SMN staves >_>, can we be serious a moment please ?

From an outside perspective (barely did voidwatch ever), VW comes with a few upgrades, usually minor/useless, and plenty of "not the best in their slot gear" that casual players can get randomly (I'm typically thinking of the decent H2H2 weapons in there). All this to lure the server into supplying the bazars with riftdross and cinders. It kinda works because except dynamis currency, metal plates and dross, there is not much in the bazars.

On the bright side, some people can seriously consider achieving a maxed out level 99 empy, because the supply is there (at a given time there are maybe 50 riftcinders of various prices in bazars and you only need 3000), and the new tiers added MP/cinder/dross as drops I think, increasing the supply and decreasing the prices noticably.

[Karbuncle]

I can't begin to accept that post was created by Pchan. It acknowledges some Voidwatch Armor, Doesn't insult anyone, Explains its reasons in a well thought-out manner and even shows both the Pros and Cons of a typical event, and has a dash of humor.

Glorious shortlived redemption aside, I tend to agree. Most of the voidwatch armor is pretty second rate, but when things like Relics exist, Creating first rate weapons is impossible. however, that new Shield/Sword/Staff really are the best new melee weapons short of the Legendaries. So that goes for something.

Nyzul Armor does hold king in most spots, but some Voidwatch gear is respectable, if only for some situational armor. like the DT body. Or the Cure Potency body.

But on a serious note. Melee Summoner Staff. I'm going to get it one day if my Account is ever reactivated. If only for the glorious lulz i can have when I whip that thing out in public and bash on things with it. I tried that once before with a type of staff, People didn't appreciate it. But this time will be different.

[Babekeke]

Would you rather have a week lockout like they do on WoW,

Some people only get a chance to play every so often, so they would definately benefit from a weekly lockout with much higher drop rates. People who play 8+ hours a day every day will have a better chance of getting drops with this system.

The real argument is that we all pay the same rate, so should we all have the same chance? This certainly isn't the case with everything else, like regular timed NM drops, emp/relic weapons.

Mythic weapons you could argue favour the players that don't play as often, as you can save 5 tags and do your assaults every 5 days until you complete them, then do 5 neo nyzul every 5 days for alex (not sure if the amount of alex is worth doing this for?) if you don't need the points to enter assault. Einherjar is every 3 days, and if you save an assault tag, you can do 2 assaults every 2 days for collecting alex.

[Camiie]

They could have removed personal chests, and just have the dragon drop 1-2 things.

Saying "it could be worse" doesn't make it good.

[Mahoro]

I can't begin to accept that post was created by Pchan. It acknowledges some Voidwatch Armor, Doesn't insult anyone, Explains its reasons in a well thought-out manner and even shows both the Pros and Cons of a typical event, and has a dash of humor.

Glorious shortlived redemption aside, I tend to agree. Most of the voidwatch armor is pretty second rate, but when things like Relics exist, Creating first rate weapons is impossible. however, that new Shield/Sword/Staff really are the best new melee weapons short of the Legendaries. So that goes for something.

Nyzul Armor does hold king in most spots, but some Voidwatch gear is respectable, if only for some situational armor. like the DT body. Or the Cure Potency body.

But on a serious note. Melee Summoner Staff. I'm going to get it one day if my Account is ever reactivated. If only for the glorious lulz i can have when I whip that thing out in public and bash on things with it. I tried that once before with a type of staff, People didn't appreciate it. But this time will be different.

I actually thought that Pchan post was respectable too, except for the underlying assumption in nearly all of his posts that one should be Neo-Nyzuling or farming ADL for money and nothing else. I am Neo-Nyzulling myself but it's a few hours every 5-7 days (more commonly 7 days since statics like to meet the same time each week). I agree the rewards from Neo-Nyzul are superior, but my activity in the event is not mutually exclusive to doing VW for those other pieces that benefit my jobs (however "great", "minor", or "sidegrade" they are). I sometimes see him castigate drops for jobs that he doesn't play, which ties into his overal opinion that the majority of jobs besides MNK + WHM + BRD + COR are worthless (and SMN but he'd say "only its 2hr").

[MarkovChain]

Cor is useless too, except for its 2H. Oh and yeah I was right about VW from start, as usual. And I already said that legion is a plot to revive crafting (abj. apparently) that died before it was even born. I wish you good luck splitting scrolls of meteor into 36.

[Monchat]

the legion augment thing reminds me of evolith... this failed so hard.

[Mahoro]

Cor is useless too, except for its 2H. Oh and yeah I was right about VW from start, as usual. And I already said that legion is a plot to revive crafting (abj. apparently) that died before it was even born. I wish you good luck splitting scrolls of meteor into 36.

It's 18. And don't have to split Meteor/Arise in a DKP based LS when we can guarantee that people with WHM + BLM will actually get the scrolls. Thanks for the wishes though.

The Legion thing failed more because the event is nearly impossible to clear in its current state barring Meteor tricks which the playerbase can't test yet without farming Provenance Watcher. If the event was as easy as Abyssea and the Honor items dropped like rain, we would already be seeing sample augments on the abjuration armor. I'm not saying these augments will be amazing...hell, they could be laughable. But I'd like to actually SEE a few samples before passing judgment like you are. Some of the standalone HQ abjuration pieces are already good (Khepri for THF/RNG/COR, Iaso hat/boots for WHM, etc.), and these T1 synths will get more common as crafting cap increases. Of course, you don't play some of those jobs or have declared them worthless/not as efficient as ally of MNKs, so any comment you make on these forums is biased before you even hit the Reply button.

In this Provenance thread, you are essentially doing what you did in the Legion thread. Coming in and declaring entire events worthless with maximum glee amd schadenfreude, saying "I was right all along etc.", all in an attempt to justify your perceived superiority and your idea that people should be farming Nyzul or ADL and nothing else. Last I heard, there are people who like doing more in-game than that. There are people who have most everything they need for their jobs, and relish getting even pieces with minor improvements/sidegrades to tweak their gearsets and builds.

[Sargent]

Only issue I have with Provenance Watcher is getting the KIs required for it. Spending 990k curor each time is unfeasible and there's a 24 hour wait on KIs to enter the fights that drop 1/3rd of the KIs required at a 100% rate. Although there are direct drops that the whole alliance will be lotting on in 9/10 PUGs, the drop rate from the personal loot pool is terrible as usual and Arise/Meteor have only been confirmed to be direct drops.

I understand that this stuff should be hard to get, but I think they should lower the recharge on KIs to enter the catarae fights to equal that of your Voidstone and if it isn't already, add Arise and Meteor to the personal loot.

[MarkovChain]

Once again you are trying to defend the event. Trying to turn it into yet another event that a LS should be doing. Some FFXIosaures still use point systems I see. You are getting nowhere, only a minority of your members will get anything. This event has been designed so that you can "spam" it, so people best way to do it is either getting lucky in a pickup or buy it in a bazars. I'm willing to bet meteor is going to sell for 20 M gil, aka nothing.

[Sukoshi]

Hmmm..
http://figure-archive.net/photos/v038/_00130135.jpg

http://wiki.ffo.jp/img/26726/Provenance_Watcher_a.jpg

Look familiar?

[Camiie]

I'm waiting for an Ironclad to combine with Proto-Omega and ride on its back.

[Duelle]

Would you rather have a week lockout like they do on WoW, but guaranteed drops? You can only kill the boss once a week only to have the fight reset.

Its a MMO they have to stall your gear progression somehow either lockouts or crap drop rates and in FFXI's case its crap drop rates.Guaranteed drops with a lockout timer would actually be bearable in this case. This leaves the matter of who gets what drop to the shell or group running the fight instead of to the whims of the RNG. Sure, things like politics work their way in there, and players may end up developing the whole routine bit of running everything they can right after reset, leaving those who missed out because of work and other things trying to get a run together the other days of the week.

It'd still be a step forward, because after the abyssmal rates in VW, this last fight should really reward those who participate for working their way up there.

[Camiie]

Would you rather have a week lockout like they do on WoW, but guaranteed drops?

Good lord yes. It's the pure dumb random luck factor that's by far the most grating part of loot acquisition. You can be highly skilled, well read, extremely dedicated, and as effectively geared as possible while having all your progression i's dotted and t's crossed and your reward, more often than not and BY DESIGN, is a punch in the gut followed by a kick to the teeth. Or perhaps more fittingly a box full of logs to the gut and a trashcan to the face.

[Mahoro]

Once again you are trying to defend the event. Trying to turn it into yet another event that a LS should be doing. Some FFXIosaures still use point systems I see. You are getting nowhere, only a minority of your members will get anything. This event has been designed so that you can "spam" it, so people best way to do it is either getting lucky in a pickup or buy it in a bazars. I'm willing to bet meteor is going to sell for 20 M gil, aka nothing.

You state "only a minority of your members will get anything." If you are implying some kind of favoritism in a large LS setting, you likely don't understand rule one of how to make a fair DKP system, considering your already extreme bias toward large LS's. If you are implying that only a couple people will walk away with scrolls, this is the same result as would occur in a PUG. Would you prefer the PUG where 15 other people lot on Meteor against the only 3 guys who have BLM?

You also don't seem to realize that no single option excludes others. That is, someone in a LS can supplement LS runs with PUG runs. They can spend DKP in a LS setting to "call dibs" automatically, they can get lucky in a PUG lotting against 17 other people, or they can buy it in bazaars (if they can find any). The bazaar thing can be a solution to anything though, can't it? Just farm Dyna and hire others to get you ra/ex gear and buy all non-ra/ex stuff in bazaars.

At any rate, the opportunity for everybody to get loot is always present in VW. With these last fights, they made it so that there are individual chests AND group pool drops. Best of both worlds to me. I wish all VW loot dropped that way. Although of course the drop rates are low again and people are getting logs, of which I am absolutely not a fan.

[Arbole]

I like how there are much harder fights than T3 Zilart, yet they all still drop riftsand (/sarcasm). I'm pretty sure there are more empyreans out there than god knows what trial is needed for riftsand. Also, nothing released since T3 zilart drops HMPs besides the other T2 expansion bosses. I'm pretty sure there's a file somewhere that contains an HMP coinpurse... I also don't like that crystal petrifacts were put into my HQ slot for VW chests. SE likes to artificially inflate the crap out of things we don't want. They can't even say that all the logs and rocks we get are helping woodworkers or goldsmiths, as AH prices are crap and it's almost always better to NPC your junk loot than to let it pool up while you wait for your mere 7 slots of AH space to be sold. /rantover

[Windwhisper]

worst part is that scrolls dont drop in personal reward chest but only in pool, which totally beats the point on personal chests. Now people mercenary the scrolls instead ( i cant blame them for it, but the little man who beat the battle has only a chance to obtain it if he pays for it). I dont call that balanced.

[MarkovChain]

You state "only a minority of your members will get anything." If you are implying some kind of favoritism in a large LS setting, you likely don't understand rule one of how to make a fair DKP system, considering your already extreme bias toward large LS's. If you are implying that only a couple people will walk away with scrolls, this is the same result as would occur in a PUG. Would you prefer the PUG where 15 other people lot on Meteor against the only 3 guys who have BLM?

The best loot distribution is free lot for anyone, it's the only way to satisfy anyone, and the only way to keep members. Don't act like I'm a LS free noob that doesn't want to get implied in large scale farming. This crap is not endgame it's a 18-man BCNM. I've done countless of point based system like sky dynamis lamebus etc it just doesn't work and people quit when they get their shit. Best thing I did was Einherjar where the lotting rule basically free lot for everyone, and the LS last like 2 years, 33 odin.


Nobody would farm hagun with their LS at 75, same problem here. I've done plenty of point system based event and it just doesn't work in the long run. It's not necessarily because people keep everything for them, it's because it's impossible to give everyone what they want, which leads to frustration, and also leads to those that got anything to leave. But hey, keep thinking you are not wasting your time. Do you have a relic 99 ? A mythic 99? An empy 99 ? Meteor ? Arise ? 250 millions ? A full nyzul set ? I bet the answers to those question are no to all, which totally confirms what I'm saying. Doing EVRYTHING in a event which is what you imply just doesn't work. You need a LS for one specific event at best.

[MarkovChain]

At any rate, the opportunity for everybody to get loot is always present in VW. With these last fights, they made it so that there are individual chests AND group pool drops. Best of both worlds to me. I wish all VW loot dropped that way. Although of course the drop rates are low again and people are getting logs, of which I am absolutely not a fan.
And they took the ironic decision to put rare/ex into individual pool, and tradable items like meteor into the common pool. It's liek metal plates, your never going to seriously farm meteor, your best bet is to buy it in bazar w.

[Kaisha]

I understand that this stuff should be hard to get, but I think they should lower the recharge on KIs to enter the catarae fights to equal that of your Voidstone and if it isn't already, add Arise and Meteor to the personal loot.
7 conundrums a week, that's minimum two honest attempts at the Watcher assuming horrible luck getting the KIs or crystal petrifacts off the normal VW NMs that everyone is still 0/150 on for their desired drop.

I can live with that.

[Mahoro]

The best loot distribution is free lot for anyone, it's the only way to satisfy anyone, and the only way to keep members. Don't act like I'm a LS free noob that doesn't want to get implied in large scale farming. This crap is not endgame it's a 18-man BCNM. I've done countless of point based system like sky dynamis lamebus etc it just doesn't work and people quit when they get their shit. Best thing I did was Einherjar where the lotting rule basically free lot for everyone, and the LS last like 2 years, 33 odin.


Nobody would farm hagun with their LS at 75, same problem here. I've done plenty of point system based event and it just doesn't work in the long run. It's not necessarily because people keep everything for them, it's because it's impossible to give everyone what they want, which leads to frustration, and also leads to those that got anything to leave. But hey, keep thinking you are not wasting your time. Do you have a relic 99 ? A mythic 99? An empy 99 ? Meteor ? Arise ? 250 millions ? A full nyzul set ? I bet the answers to those question are no to all, which totally confirms what I'm saying. Doing EVRYTHING in a event which is what you imply just doesn't work. You need a LS for one specific event at best.

As I've told you before, doing events with a LS does not impede any of the goals you just listed. Once again, you assume all of someone's time is spent doing EVERYTHING with a LS, which is quite far from the truth. There are plenty of people in my shell who have many of the things on your list. All of your examples can either be achieved from endless Dyna farming or side Nyzulling, which are obviously not done in an LS, so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

Regarding your question about Meteor/Arise, we haven't even started farming Prov Watcher yet, but plan to incorporate it very soon. So people are free to buy Meteor from bazaars (but oops, none available yet!). We do Dyna at MOST once a week, and people can farm all they want 26+ remaining days of the month. I also farm Neo-Nyzul on the side, and don't understand why you continually raise that example as it is something a small group does ONCE a week...

Doing every event freelot for anyone is one of the quickest ways to cause frustration possible. People want predictability and the ability to make progression toward a goal, and point systems allow for that. Why do you think so many people were crying for SE point systems in VW? In your examples, nothing is stopping people from leaving once they get their shit freelot, so I'm not sure why you think THAT scenario is so superior to a LS based environment, where the effort you make in one event carries over into the next.

Do you honestly think that frustration would be alleviated in an "18-man BCNM" where everyone freelots Meteor and Arise over the people who could actually use it? Do you think the people who lost a freelot E. Body, N. Legs, V. Fork, etc. in Odin in your example were magically free of frustration because they knew they were guaranteed to get it in the future, and they knew the guy who did it would stick around? You also assumed only one person in my shell would lot stuff at a time, which is false. Multiple people who meet the points/mainlot requirements can cast lots, not just one person.

You call Prov Watcher an 18-man BCNM, but it is essentially no different from any other VW fight except for two drops falling into the group pool. Bahamutv2 and other events were 18-man BCNM's too, and doing that freelot or PUG would have been the quickest path to frustration for anybody who wanted the Helm or Staff. Your arbitrary labeling of an event does not carry any weight, nor do the assumptions you make in every single post.

[Tamoa]

I think Pchan's got it backwards - I see it as far more likely that people will jump ship once they get what they want if everything is freelot. In a point based ls, people are much more likely to stay after getting an item they want, building points for the next item they want.

Besides, I hate how so many people just assume that in every endgame ls, the leader gets everything first, followed by everybody who's kissing the leader's ass. If you're in a ls like that, then leave - and if you don't, you get no sympathy from me.

[Monchat]

nobody wants to join a point based ls where the best item are basically locked by all the people that got the highest points. My einherjar ls for example the rules were: you chose 2 items you want, if they drop, you can lot. worked great.

[wish12oz]

Honestly, I just view Pchans arguments against large scale LS's as a cover for the fact that no decent LS would let him join. He needs to try and convince others they're bad and that he's correct by not joining one because he can't join one.

[Mahoro]

nobody wants to join a point based ls where the best item are basically locked by all the people that got the highest points. My einherjar ls for example the rules were: you chose 2 items you want, if they drop, you can lot. worked great.

You need a system that encourages new members and keeps old members coming back. We have a capped point system where anyone who has the point value assigned to the item can lot, even new members. To the extent people want to "lock out" stuff, they can bid 2x.

In your example, what happens when someone gets both items? Did everyone stay till every last person got both items on their list? One event LS's/PUG's = no accountability, no continuity. "Worked great" for the people who win freelot against 12+ other people, sure, but does nothing to alleviate frustration when people can't make incremental progress and they have to rely on the hope that when 9/10 people get their item, they will stay till the group is 10/10.

Your system is also inapplicable to events like Prov Watcher where there are only 2 direct drop-only items. "Ok, I choose which items I want to freelot? I choose Meteor! Woops, 12 other people chose it ;;"

Multiple event LS = get your drop, and still attend event because you are accruing points for next item at next event

[Alkimi]

We still have sign-ups for drops and prioritise certain gear to certain jobs but we ditched any form of points system a long time ago. Most in the linkshell agree it was for the best.

[Mahoro]

Different strokes for different folks. Back on topic, has there been any testimonial of Meteor/Arise dropping in a personal chest? Seems these fights are not done often enough to know for sure.

[Khiinroye]

We have not had any Arise or Meteor scrolls drop from a personal chest yet.


And they took the ironic decision to put rare/ex into individual pool, and tradable items like meteor into the common pool. It's liek metal plates, your never going to seriously farm meteor, your best bet is to buy it in bazar w.

Misinformation that about an event you haven't even tried that has been proven otherwise already. Most (if not all) of the rare/ex items for Provenance Watcher are in both the individual pool and the common pool.

[Elexia]

Look familiar?

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/279/3/2/dialga_by_ghostofillusion-d308diw.png

http://wiki.ffo.jp/img/26726/Provenance_Watcher_a.jpg

Yup.

Also, no there's no defending getting log and rocks from doing this fight. Nor defending the 990k I have to spend to get said logs and rocks, especially the fact that farming for the KIs is also impractical because unless you had stones pilled up you're also blowing gil on voiddust for no reason so no, no defending this at all. None. Zero. I'm generally the one that gets called a fangirl because I defended SE over Nyzul (when people said it sucked), Salvage and ZNM.

[Mahoro]

The Caturae chambers drop the KI's 100%. No need to spend 990k cruor or farm for KI

[Asymptotic]

The Caturae chambers drop the KI's 100%. No need to spend 990k cruor or farm for KI

This. For a good group, it takes a max of 90 mins to do all 3 fights + Dragon, and this includes running to Abyssea-Uleguerand (Resheph drops Revit) to reset 2-hours if the Caturae steal your 2-hours and changing jobs for the dragon / going over strategy.

90 mins for 12 logs!

[Mahoro]

Yes, 12 logs ;;

On the Caturae, we just have certain vital 2hr jobs stay back out of Pawn's Penumbra range. Saves some time on resetting, but obviously it is safer with your method.

[Alkimi]

Yeah just have the wars/brds/sch stay back and let the people with useless 2-hours kill that caturae. Like DRK and MNK etc.

The caturae fights are annoying (that charm > charmed people have add effect: charm is funny the first time I guess but thereafter grrrr...) but they're really easy.

[bungiefanNA]

nobody wants to join a point based ls where the best item are basically locked by all the people that got the highest points. My einherjar ls for example the rules were: you chose 2 items you want, if they drop, you can lot. worked great.

An LS I was in just used gil for points. You attend an event, you get a payout shortly after. If you want an item, bids start at 50k, and you outbid the other players to win the item, then pay it to the shell leader. After the event, all gil paid to the leader is split between the attendees, evenly (with deductions for being late or whatever, and maybe bonuses for being the event coordinator). If it's a farming run, after the items are sold (such as Umbral Marrow), the gil is split between the people that attended the event to farm them. If you're mercing out to do FC EXP leech parties or get people outside the LS the items they want, than the gil is split between the people killing the mobs.

If you don't bid on items, you get rich. Then when you do have items to bid on, you have a lot of gil to do so with.

[Duelle]

Meh, if gear drops were plentiful you could use a system like Suicide Kings instead of having to deal with point-based systems. For those not familiar, Suicide Kings is basically a list of the people in the group. Person in spot #1 gets to roll on their loot of choice, and when they do they go to the bottom of the list. Person that was #2 is now #1, they get to roll on their loot of choice, and so on. Of course, SK assumes two things: you're a static, and drops are plentiful to the point there is regular movement in the SK list. Worked well for my guild in WoW, specially in places like Ulduar that had a crapton of bosses with stuff everyone wanted or needed to some degree.

[Fupafighter]

It's artificial difficulty. Instead of implementing a weekly cooldown timer they instead restrict the drop rates to ridiculously low levels. Accomplishes the same goal in the end which is to force you to keep playing and make acquiring those rewards take a long time. The gamblers fallacy will have you coming back over and over again.

Atleast in older systems, we could do other things til we get to do event again, this way, we just spam and actually PLAY PLAY PLAY to get lol. I like the idea of waiting a few days to enter events more :/

[Tamoa]

nobody wants to join a point based ls where the best item are basically locked by all the people that got the highest points. My einherjar ls for example the rules were: you chose 2 items you want, if they drop, you can lot. worked great.


That's not free lot for all, which is what your buddy says here:



Best thing I did was Einherjar where the lotting rule basically free lot for everyone, and the LS last like 2 years, 33 odin.


Guess you 2 weren't in the same Einherjar ls?

[Fupafighter]

As I say in all forums I see pchan in, just ignore him. He is only negative, and only talks about his relic 99s lol. All other events fail except dyna in his eyes, and mnk is fastest and best DD job.

[MarkovChain]

You still didn't explain how you WS right prior to a melee round .

[MarkovChain]

That's not free lot for all, which is what your buddy says here:



Guess you 2 weren't in the same Einherjar ls?

It's pretty much the same, the point is it's miles aways from a point system, the system has no memory. Most people ended up lotting shit like Ebody, and everything else was free lot, and since most lotted ebody well.. ebody was also free lot.

[detlef]

Free lot and pick two items to lot are pretty much the same concept, it's just a matter of limiting people so they don't go crazy. You're still free to lot any item you've got your heart set on, just not every single item in the pool.

In this day and age where everybody has a job of each type, it really makes things simpler. If your group is tight-knit enough, people will pass for each other. It's also a lot easier on the leader.

[scaevola]

An LS I was in just used gil for points. You attend an event, you get a payout shortly after. If you want an item, bids start at 50k, and you outbid the other players to win the item, then pay it to the shell leader. After the event, all gil paid to the leader is split between the attendees, evenly (with deductions for being late or whatever, and maybe bonuses for being the event coordinator). If it's a farming run, after the items are sold (such as Umbral Marrow), the gil is split between the people that attended the event to farm them. If you're mercing out to do FC EXP leech parties or get people outside the LS the items they want, than the gil is split between the people killing the mobs.

If you don't bid on items, you get rich. Then when you do have items to bid on, you have a lot of gil to do so with.

This is a semi-popular form of PuG raiding content in World of Warcraft and it's really successful on the servers where it's common enough for the particulars to be common knowledge among said PuG players: everybody joins the raid and bids on drops and pays the winning bids to the raid leader, and the pot's split at the end of the run. GMs intervene to prevent ninja'ing of pots (which frequently get up to the hundreds of thousands of gold these days).

[Mahoro]

That's an interesting system, but I could see it being abused. Assume an alliance of 18 people where several people have 20M+ gil and Meteor or Arise drops. The people who have 20M+ gil try to outbid each other again and again till the final pricetag is 15M for the scroll. The proceeds are then distributed to the alliance (which only means ~882,000 gil to each person). Next time the group goes (assuming the guy who won the scroll even BOTHERS to attend again since why would he need to now?), again the pricetag for Meteor/Arise reaches 15M. Again, it goes to one of the people who have mucho gil. Again, the proceeds are distributed. Rinse, repeat. The people who didn't come to the group with mucho gil have to keep waiting and waiting until the incremental gil they receive from each successive payout finally approaches a threshold level where they can use their prior earnings to bid and win the scroll. (Yes, I am aware they or others can farm in the interim.) This assumes anybody who wins the scrolls actually sticks around, which in a low-accountability group where the "system has no memory" is a high hope at best.

The other proposed system "everyone chooses 1-2 items to freelot" has the same issues when only 2 items are highly desired to begin with, and the event's success depends on the continued attendance of the first few people who won freelots. Imagine how it would fly the first time someone who won an E.Body in that system says to the others "Hay guize, can't make Ein anymoar, I hav a class."

[MarkovChain]

Lol nope, the guy that gets ebody in your system is also leaving so that's not a disadvantage (and has more reasons to leave in case he wants a second item because then he is at the bottom of the list). You can't force people to keep doing the event regardless of the system. But in the end you will have much less trouble recruiting 1 ppl with "free lot" rather than "point system, you win one point a day and need 100 for your ebody". The gil system is pretty much fail. All you have to do is own an alt char or a mule on which you could farm money (honestly 16+ millions is not much money, I don't see how meteor could sell for less than 50 millions) or even farm money without being in the LS and then pop and buy.

The ideal system for Legion, even though I did not do it yet would be, since all gear but HQ abj are trash :
pick a abjuration type, and free lot on it.
free lot on whatever gear drops.
But to participate you need decent gear aka level 90 empy (for DD, magian staves for mages) and at least full AF3+2.

[Mahoro]

The guy that gets E.Body (or Meteor/Arise) in my system doesn't leave the LS once he gets an item because he has multiple goals, and the LS does many more events than just the event that drops E. Body. Every single event he attends (including re-attending the one he just got the E. Body from) gets him closer to another item. You wrongly assume he is at the "bottom of a list" for a second item when he could have already earned enough points for E. Body AND another item simply by attending all the different events, and only been limited by drop rate.

You CAN provide incentives for people to keep doing the event in my system. The best LS's have little attrition. If your theory were true, every person in the history of LS's in this game who ever got an item they wanted would then instantly leave the LS or never set foot into an event they have all the loot from. I don't even have to disprove such an absurd result because anecdotally, you know it not to be true.

The guy that gets E. Body (or Meteor/Arise) in your system has ZERO incentive to stay because if the group only does ONE event, there is literally nothing left for him. You also contemplate recruiting another person with "freelot" to substitute the one who left, but you fail to see how this penalizes the people who remained, and resets their chances at winning the next freelot.... Think harder.

Your statement about all gear in Legion being trash except HQ abjurations is biased since obviously you consider all jobs besides MNK, WHM, and BRD to be trash. So it's a non-starter. I will say it's provably false as there are some superior pieces for other jobs. However, I wish you good luck in clearing Legion with an alliance full of MNK WHM BRDs, and then retaining all 18 people till each person gets the abjurations they wanted.

[bungiefanNA]

That's an interesting system, but I could see it being abused. Assume an alliance of 18 people where several people have 20M+ gil and Meteor or Arise drops. The people who have 20M+ gil try to outbid each other again and again till the final pricetag is 15M for the scroll. The proceeds are then distributed to the alliance (which only means ~882,000 gil to each person). Next time the group goes (assuming the guy who won the scroll even BOTHERS to attend again since why would he need to now?), again the pricetag for Meteor/Arise reaches 15M. Again, it goes to one of the people who have mucho gil. Again, the proceeds are distributed. Rinse, repeat. The people who didn't come to the group with mucho gil have to keep waiting and waiting until the incremental gil they receive from each successive payout finally approaches a threshold level where they can use their prior earnings to bid and win the scroll. (Yes, I am aware they or others can farm in the interim.) This assumes anybody who wins the scrolls actually sticks around, which in a low-accountability group where the "system has no memory" is a high hope at best.

The other proposed system "everyone chooses 1-2 items to freelot" has the same issues when only 2 items are highly desired to begin with, and the event's success depends on the continued attendance of the first few people who won freelots. Imagine how it would fly the first time someone who won an E.Body in that system says to the others "Hay guize, can't make Ein anymoar, I hav a class."

It's an endgame LS, and they do lots of events. If you don't attend events regularly enough, you get kicked from the LS and stop making money and getting the items you want. Quitting events because you got one item you want is going to hurt you in the long run.

You're also forgetting gil distribution for bids on other drops.

[Mahoro]

One group doing multiple events sounds better to me, sure, but I still query what happens in the scenario I painted where there are inequities in gil and/or outside farming sources. Seems to me that a "gil bidding" system could turn into a continuing game of oneupsmanship where someone would get penalized if they didn't do outside farming and/or the price for ra/ex items becomes vastly inflated because more gil is "entering the system."

[Urteil]

Lol yes because we go into doing VW with aspirations of collecting every log in this game, right?

I got pretty much everything I wanted from Voidwatch, I threw a lot of logs away, traded a lot of cells.

Made a lot of cruor money.

Persistence I suppose, who knows.

[Karbuncle]

I got pretty much everything I wanted from Voidwatch, I threw a lot of logs away, traded a lot of cells.

Made a lot of cruor money.

Persistence I suppose, who knows.

I envy you. But i also stare at what i can only assume is a shot that anyone who doesn't have their Armor is either

A) Lazy/Unpersistant
B) Not trading cells.

Which is the vibe i get from that post. I can tell you pretty confidently after over 700 Voidwatch runs, 300-400 Of them on 2 NMs specifically, I have a grand total of 1 Body i wanted. Ironically the one i wanted the least, But one I wanted no less. it was the Cure Pot. Body. The ones I'm missing are:

Athos Tabard
Mekira Body
Toci's Harness

Theres also some minor items I've got/want But not worth mentioning. I've also killed the Tier3 Bastok/San/Win "Body" NMs a few times, But most of those were for fun... I was persistent to the point i want to tie 'someone' to a chair, and rip out his teeth 1 by 1, and every time i pull a tooth, I'd tell him "Another LOG!" or "Another Ore!". Because that's what voidwatch became to me, pulling my teeth out.

[Elexia]

Yeah, anyone with common sense knows no matter how much persistence you show you're still at the mercy of RNG. I even got my Toci without trading cells, on my first kill.

Yet with constantly trading cells I'm still 0/1xx on Athos gear.

[Dew]

Provenance Watcher drop rate is retarded. Up to 30 kills now and only have seen 2 staffs from the Trove. Provenance Watcher itself hasn't dropped much ether. The drop rate is really low for having to farm so much to get the access, crystals, KIs and then final do the fight. Having to redo all that just to see Red rocks, Petrified logs, and gold ores is dumb. Should at least be a cruor and xp reward or a 100% random abj.

As a final boss, it shouldn't have such a low drop rate. All the requirements to redo the fight already limit how many times you can do it.

[Luvbunny]

Totally agree with you on all counts!! But they just cannot let us have fun, even with the 24 hours limitation, and the 3 KIs that we have to REPEATEDLY get EVERY SINGLE TIME, which is extremely RETARDED.... Those KIs should be permanent and need only to be gotten once. These new contents are highly retarded to be honest. If it is just low drop rates, that's one thing, you get used to it - but all these "invisible hands" to make sure that we cannot progress is ridiculous.

[Mahoro]

I actually completely agree with this. Other "final bosses" of content in this game have actually had higher drop rates or 100% drops (AV, PW, Kirin, Odin, etc). I don't see why Prov Watcher should be any different.

[Llana_Virren]

3 KIs that we have to REPEATEDLY get EVERY SINGLE TIME, which is extremely RETARDED.... Those KIs should be permanent and need only to be gotten once.

You never did the Sky Gods, did you?

[Yinnyth]

I actually completely agree with this. Other "final bosses" of content in this game have actually had higher drop rates or 100% drops (AV, PW, Kirin, Odin, etc). I don't see why Prov Watcher should be any different.

Kirin and Odin have high drop rates? Well, that's news to me. I would also like to point out that (when these NMs were in their prime) it took much longer to get a pop. The kupofried thingy is a bit of a bottleneck now, I suppose, but a year from now you'll have more provenance access saved up than you'll use in your lifetime.

Here's the reason threads bashing the drop rate of VW stuff is so common: I went 0/10, therefore droprate sucks. I went 7/7, therefore drop system sucks. This 30 minute event has a lower drop rate than an NM who takes 30 man-hours to get a pop for, therefore drop rate sucks.

My personal experience with VW versus my experience with getting a Novio earring: I did ~16 Akvans, about 10-15 minutes per kill and got kalasiris, and then I stopped killing Akvan. I did ~24 Qilins, about 5 minutes per kill and got Fajin boots, and then I stopped killing Qilin. I joined an endgame LS, farming sea twice a week for 2-4 hours per run. After half a year (56 sea runs for ~3 hours each or roughly 150 hours of sea), it was finally my turn for a Novio, and then I kept doing sea.

[Mahoro]

I assume you are aware of the irony of using the very type of personalized argument in your third paragraph that you highlight in your second paragraph. I was intentionally trying not to personalize my own drop rate (which is fairly good) but instead use the general trend of anecdotes from people.

In any event, yes, Kirin and Odin have higher drop rates for items and abjurations. Sure, perhaps not the most DESIRED ones (W. Legs, E. Body), but higher drop rate of stuff nonetheless. Odin has guaranteed loot slots for abjurations. Prov Watcher's loot table is just as big, if not bigger, than Kirin/Odin etc. But most of those items have the exact same low drop rate. As for your other example, JoL farts out an earring 100%, it's just a flip of the coin whether it's a Novia or Novio. Your personal experience is irrelevant to my point because although it took you time to get DKP for a Novio, OTHER PEOPLE in your group were getting either Novias or Novios every kill. That isn't happening here.

Granted it does take longer to get popsets for other endgame content bosses, but I guess people can decide for themselves whether a 1-5% drop rate of an NM that takes 6 Caturae kills and a Dragon kill evens out with an NM like Odin that takes 9 chamber kills spread out over a larger time period and a horsey kill.

[Aequis]

With Voidwach as a whole, I'd love some sense of being on a path; some route to eventually earning a reward other than this "random chance" mechanic that seems to infect everything lately. Still think a point system would have been the best way to handle drops in VW, even if it was 50 "Pil points" for a Toci's harness.

No offence, but 1/16 on any of the bodies is a superb rate of success. VW has made me quite bitter with the time I have put in and with few results to show for it.


This 30 minute event has a lower drop rate than an NM who takes 30 man-hours to get a pop for, therefore drop rate sucks.

I agree and disagree. Most things sea or sky-related these days can be low-manned and even duo-ed in a lot of cases, but the vast timesinks are still there. Zipacna potentially drops two gems now, but still can take 2-4 hours to respawn. You can duo Ix'DRK, but it might decide to reraise 30 times, in which case you're going to be there a long time.

VW as an event (with a competent group) may be short, but is it really an excuse for the system being the way it is? I'd take a path of progression over a random chance any day.

[Sparthos]

Kirin and Odin have high drop rates? Well, that's news to me. I would also like to point out that (when these NMs were in their prime) it took much longer to get a pop. The kupofried thingy is a bit of a bottleneck now, I suppose, but a year from now you'll have more provenance access saved up than you'll use in your lifetime.

Here's the reason threads bashing the drop rate of VW stuff is so common: I went 0/10, therefore droprate sucks. I went 7/7, therefore drop system sucks. This 30 minute event has a lower drop rate than an NM who takes 30 man-hours to get a pop for, therefore drop rate sucks.

My personal experience with VW versus my experience with getting a Novio earring: I did ~16 Akvans, about 10-15 minutes per kill and got kalasiris, and then I stopped killing Akvan. I did ~24 Qilins, about 5 minutes per kill and got Fajin boots, and then I stopped killing Qilin. I joined an endgame LS, farming sea twice a week for 2-4 hours per run. After half a year (56 sea runs for ~3 hours each or roughly 150 hours of sea), it was finally my turn for a Novio, and then I kept doing sea.

That was then, this is now.

There is no excuse. Content like Provenance could have a similar system to Nyzul uncharted where after X clears you can choose a piece of gear you want. We all have been through the toils of dealing with DKP and LS politics but that is irrelevant when SE creates new content because if they felt inclined to they could make things free of such annoyances by showing people a clear goal to loot if you do something.

They haven't for whatever reason so PUGs will continue to squabble over the one pool drop, people will feel they've wasted their time and the cycle continues.

[Mahoro]

Although I wouldn't mind seeing Prov Watcher shit out an abjuration or something 100%, I actually wish all Voidwatch mobs had similar loot mechanics to this dragon: individual loot pools AND direct drops. This is one trend I like, and I wish they retroactively applied it to prior VWNM's. The individual pools would reward the PUGs, and the direct drops would reward the DKP-based LS's.

I was in a non-LS group the other day and Tessera Saio dropped. The screen filled with lots. I started to gnash my teeth and think about what would have happened if it dropped for my LS: some excited Wildfire COR would have spent DKP and got it ;;

[Yinnyth]

I assume you are aware of the irony of using the very type of personalized argument in your third paragraph that you highlight in your second paragraph.

I can see why people would think that, and I suppose that's my fault for not better outlining my argument. I wasn't trying to say that basing it on personal experience is bad. Personal experience, after all, is all we have to go on for this. It's just that you have to keep in mind there are a vast number of personal experiences we choose not to, or are unable to consider. I told no one in my PuG when my kalasiris or my boots dropped, so for all they know, the drop rate is uber crappy. Though to be fair, 4 other people actually admitted to getting fajin boots (one of them claiming to get 3 pairs).

My point is this: people have one bad experience and then they hyper-focus on it, ignoring everything else. But they forget that they got omphalos bullet on their first set of akvans (even though they might not play cor). They neglect to mention that they got brego gloves while they were just doing one kill to tier-up. They choose not to pay attention to the fact that 7 people in their group got the item they wanted from the kill in one set of 4 kills. The luck swings back and forth in VW as it does in any event. It averages out to be a better drop rate than Einherjar, Sky Gods, Sea Gods, Land Gods, and Zeni NMs.

You will spend less time killing Qilin for a sparkle dagger than you would spend sitting around dragon aery and waiting for claim, then waiting for drops, then waiting for your turn to finally get ridill. (yes, I know the system has changed now, I'm talking about the way it was when Ridill was shiny). But since people only pay attention to the big items they want, and they only pay attention to their own loot pool, and they see 0 drops, they begin to think to themselves: "0% drop rate = worse than 5% drop rate on defending ring", therefore droprate is worse than King Behemoth. Which is untrue. It won't be long before there's more Adamas' on each server than defending rings.

True, you could get unlucky and wind up going 1/100. But in that time, you'll probably get half of Provenance's other drops, and it's still no more ridiculous than the drop rates of old.

[Yinnyth]

I agree and disagree. Most things sea or sky-related these days can be low-manned and even duo-ed in a lot of cases, but the vast timesinks are still there. Zipacna potentially drops two gems now, but still can take 2-4 hours to respawn. You can duo Ix'DRK, but it might decide to reraise 30 times, in which case you're going to be there a long time.

And years from now, I'm guessing Voidwatch will be in the same position. It's unfair to compare VW now to Sky 7 years old. In the old days, Zipacna couldn't drop 2 pop items, his repop timer was less forgiving, and you'd be in heated competition with other linkshells. He also couldn't be solo'd by anything short of an avesta-level rdm, but that would take somewhere around an hour to do.

I'm not fighting the fact that drop rates suck and always will suck(in whatever events come after VW). I'm more arguing against people who claim that it's worse now than it used to be. What are your hopes of getting Tessera Saio nowadays compared to your hopes of getting Ninurta's Sash back at level 75?

I suppose the big exception would be Abyssea. Abyssea was wtf amounts of loot for (comparatively) very little work.

[Ophannus]

The purpose of Abyssea was to 'fast-forward' people from 75-90 to prepare them for the eventual true endgame of present and future. Pre-75 it took weeks to get a job to 75 well geared, they figured it'd be easier to do a battle content scenario to have copious amounts of 76-90 gear to get everyone up to par. AF3+2 by the time endgame is settled in for level 99, should end up being like AF2 was at 75, relegated to situational uses. When AF2 first came out, it was hot and sought after(pre homam/askar/nashira/odin/znm/toau gear) then once all that new gear came out, AF2 become lolAF2. So we can probably presume that with NeoNyzul/Limbus/VW and future expansion/NM gear that AF3+2 will eventually become the new lolAF2.

[Sparthos]

Given the current gear being released they aren't making Empyrean+2 lol by any stretch of the imagination.

It is still potent gear with minor upgrades from Voidwatch and only through true replacement via Nyzul Uncharted gear which is purposely designed to be nigh impossible to obtain for most players.

[Aequis]

But they forget that they got omphalos bullet on their first set of akvans (even though they might not play cor). They neglect to mention that they got brego gloves while they were just doing one kill to tier-up.

It's really difficult, because I agree with so many things said on here but vehemently disagree with others. The above, very true. When you're chasing those one or two specific items, the race becomes all about that goal.

I don't agree with the next comment though. It's irrelevant whether someone else in your group gets their item because it doesn't impact on yourself in any positive way (due to individual chests). In fact, with the way the system works, every time that happens the situation takes a turn for the worse. Fewer people are going to be shouting for that NM, any shout will take longer to fill, people get impatient and leave, thus the overall chance of you getting that item diminishes.


It's unfair to compare VW now to Sky 7 years old.

Oh, I agree. Was just pointing out that when Square Enix "update" content they merely half-fix it, so it's somewhat better but still has gaping problems. Sky and sea are still huge timesinks, even when you can kill an NM in three minutes. I just get the feeling that no matter what we ask for, SE are not going to change VW beyond the scope of, "Oooh, let's change BST procs because some of them can miss the target right now." They're failing to see the point. By virtue of "updates" of that nature, either SE are incompetent or blatantly ignorant.


Although I wouldn't mind seeing Prov Watcher shit out an abjuration or something 100%, I actually wish all Voidwatch mobs had similar loot mechanics to this dragon: individual loot pools AND direct drops. This is one trend I like, and I wish they retroactively applied it to prior VWNM's. The individual pools would reward the PUGs, and the direct drops would reward the DKP-based LS's.

We already have Prov shout groups that lock the loot pools (where this false sense of entitlement comes from, I don't know) and I feel it could only get worse if this happened. To even see a body/piece of Rubeus/Ogier's/Athos's is very rare. To see it, then get outlotted by someone who is lotting "for the lolz" or because they might level a job that can use it in future ... no. I don't even want to go there.

I understand how that seems paradoxical of me to say, but I don't want to be a part of a linkshell "waiting my turn" either. I want to set my own paths and achieve things at my own pace; not battle a R.N.G every time I do a VWNM.

[Gokku]

I won lot on arise from my 2nd pug prov run , the mages rage'd my response is this. SE if your going to make events that drop gear make it drop gear for EVERYONE Prov offers 0 drops useful to a monk take a look at FFXIV see how every single thing they add has SOMETHING for everyone? thats what you need to start doing.

[Luvbunny]

LOL - this team trying to copy FF14? that will never happen. I would not be surprised if the two team leader is competing against each other and there is a little office animosity between the two. After all the younger one is clearly the STAR, with a far far better vision, and has the ability to connect with the consumers and giving them what they want. Huge big difference after he took over - the proof is in the pudding. As for FFXI every update is full of problems, complaints and just general animosity, in comparison with Abyssea where you see less of this. Thank god for the 2012 update road map, now we can all take 6-8 months break knowing that we are not going to miss much.

[Mahoro]

We already have Prov shout groups that lock the loot pools (where this false sense of entitlement comes from, I don't know) and I feel it could only get worse if this happened. To even see a body/piece of Rubeus/Ogier's/Athos's is very rare. To see it, then get outlotted by someone who is lotting "for the lolz" or because they might level a job that can use it in future ... no. I don't even want to go there.

I understand how that seems paradoxical of me to say, but I don't want to be a part of a linkshell "waiting my turn" either. I want to set my own paths and achieve things at my own pace; not battle a R.N.G every time I do a VWNM.

Well, I meant that I wouldn't mind all the VW fights having direct pool AND individual chest drops, to create the best of both worlds. Sure, you'd sometimes be outlotted by someone lotting "for the lolz", but you'd have your own chest to fall back on. And since people have gotten multiple bodies in fights, I doubt the direct drop slot would "interfere" with your individual chest.

Regarding your other comment, Prov Watcher shout groups that lock the loot pools are absolutely disgusting to me. Do the leaders think they are entitled to the loot simply by virtue of the fact they are shouting? By the same logic, locking drops for myself in my LS simply because I co-lead it would be repugnant as well. Besides, no other PUG events operate in that fashion, unless they are AV/Pandy Warden PUGs where I can see the logic because the shouter expended time and resources in a pop set. Simply horrid.

Either do PW PUG style where you know going in you only have a 1/18 chance of getting that direct pool drop, or join an LS and make incremental progression toward your goals with points. Not sure which LS's you refer to with the "waiting my turn" comment. Creating lines and orders for every single drop in the game creates the potential for huge abuse and frustrates morale.


LOL - this team trying to copy FF14? that will never happen. I would not be surprised if the two team leader is competing against each other and there is a little office animosity between the two. After all the younger one is clearly the STAR, with a far far better vision, and has the ability to connect with the consumers and giving them what they want. Huge big difference after he took over - the proof is in the pudding. As for FFXI every update is full of problems, complaints and just general animosity, in comparison with Abyssea where you see less of this. Thank god for the 2012 update road map, now we can all take 6-8 months break knowing that we are not going to miss much.

Ok go ahead?

[saevel]

By the same logic, locking drops for myself in my LS simply because I co-lead it would be repugnant as well.

Not disagreeing with you, but I've known shells to do exactly that and worse. Its most likely the same people doing both.

[Nala]

You never did the Sky Gods, did you?

Your example is irrelevant, sky god you could farm up multiple pop sets and spam back to back to back, this system introduces a multilayer barrier of cock blocks.

[Nala]

The purpose of Abyssea was to 'fast-forward' people from 75-90 to prepare them for the eventual true endgame of present and future. Pre-75 it took weeks to get a job to 75 well geared, they figured it'd be easier to do a battle content scenario to have copious amounts of 76-90 gear to get everyone up to par. AF3+2 by the time endgame is settled in for level 99, should end up being like AF2 was at 75, relegated to situational uses. When AF2 first came out, it was hot and sought after(pre homam/askar/nashira/odin/znm/toau gear) then once all that new gear came out, AF2 become lolAF2. So we can probably presume that with NeoNyzul/Limbus/VW and future expansion/NM gear that AF3+2 will eventually become the new lolAF2.

Poor comparison in many respects, most af2 widely lacked stats relevant to the job save for the few pieces that actually augmented abilities, its no small wonder that any gear with stats you actually needed came out they were phased out, af3+2 however for most jobs has many relevant stats, they aren't always the top pieces but make great intermediate place holders by comparison to af2 to 75 cap gear.

[Gokku]

Your example is irrelevant, sky god you could farm up multiple pop sets and spam back to back to back, this system introduces a multilayer barrier of cock blocks.

wut? i spamed 54 2min qilins last night ended up with 49 petri's , my PUG dragon group did all 3 bc's x2 and 2 easy PW wins in under 2 hours total , so i fail to see how 4 BC's with drops and easy spam VW mobs arent 1000x's faster then the super camped old sky or suuuuper camped new sky 2mil zip stones on carby atm and gl getting a fucking zip claim.

[MarkovChain]

That's because you are narrowminded. No sky item was 1% droprate. The most "sought after" item used to be byakko's haidate and is like 50% droprate and used to be killable fairly easily with a single party. Also how can one possible do 54 VWNM is one night idk. Is this the new fun people have been talking about ? I want salvage back.

[Llana_Virren]

The most "sought after" item used to be byakko's haidate and is like 50% droprate and used to be killable fairly easily with a single party.

Byakko USED to be killed by an alliance, if you remember your history correctly. Honestly, I think a 50% drop rate is retardedly generous (at the time). The more awesome the reward, the more difficult it MUST be to obtain it.

The issue is that people want stuff handed to them, because they don't know what it's like to go weeks or months and getting a) out-claimed, or b) shit drops if they survive the claim. Sky Gods alleviated this to a point by making the end-Gods (Genbu, Byakko etc) forced spawns, but keeping the spawn items open.

Now you can kill Sky gods in low-man parties, but that wasn't always the case. You're comparing modern Abyssea to modern Sky, and that isn't the issue. The issue is that players no longer have to work for Lv.99, so they don't think they should have to work for gear, either.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You could kill byakko with 6 at 75, it wasn't that hard. And yes the Haidate is 40%ish drop rate, small sample size/bad luck etc.

[MarkovChain]

Byakko USED to be killed by an alliance, if you remember your history correctly. Honestly, I think a 50% drop rate is retardedly generous (at the time). The more awesome the reward, the more difficult it MUST be to obtain it.

The issue is that people want stuff handed to them, because they don't know what it's like to go weeks or months and getting a) out-claimed, or b) shit drops if they survive the claim. Sky Gods alleviated this to a point by making the end-Gods (Genbu, Byakko etc) forced spawns, but keeping the spawn items open.

Now you can kill Sky gods in low-man parties, but that wasn't always the case. You're comparing modern Abyssea to modern Sky, and that isn't the issue. The issue is that players no longer have to work for Lv.99, so they don't think they should have to work for gear, either.

Your post is entirely wrong. While it's true that most people where farming sky in alliances, it's also true that all sky Gods were killable with 6 (good players). The diffence bewteen the old sky and today's VW is the following :

- old sky : plan your runs like once a week and get items at a highdrop rate.
- voidwatch : spam 54 NM and get nothing, oh but the mass is happy because there is no time restriction like salvage & limbus, but it's a giant grind.

True story, I didn't get past city missions as far as voidwatch goes, but after seeing JPs kill Ig-ilama or morta I don't see exactly what "skill" or "fun" those fights are implying. I mean you are basically locking mobs with procs and killing them in a few seconds..

[svengalis]

You're getting cruor and item drops every time how are you getting nothing?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You're getting cruor and item drops every time how are you getting nothing?Because 99% of the game's populous concidders log, log, log, ore nothing.

[Karbuncle]

Ok go ahead?

I think he has the right idea.

This game is on the expressway to sh*tville and its breaking the speedlimit. Nothing in that roadmap is anything more than a minor curiosity with no real meat or interesting information. I'm not really going to blame the devs for this either. after 10 year, You either borrow ideas from other games, or you run out. But FFXI purists (A.K.A Retard Fanboys) cry if SE borrows something even remotely similar to another game, Even UI Tweaks (Hint: Yes, I'm calling anyone who complains about UI Tweaks being more like "WoW" an inbred retard. Deal with it). They're all entirely too oblivious to realize gaming companies thrive off borrowed ideas that work well, MMO's are no different.

Point of this rant is a little lost to me as well, I quit because I'm low on cash, If I had the cash, I'd still probably of quit. Its just gotten boring, Monotonous, and I'm tired of never progressing at all even if i spend an entire day doing an event. When i was younger, It wasn't much a problem, Friends, new world, excitement of the unknown... today, I'm ready to be entertained and enjoy a game, have fun with it, not to feel like I'm paying someone to go to a job every day.

Now, Just in case this point escapes you, Please, Continue to have fun with a game, but do remember, people who leave this game are doing nothing more than finally breaking the addiction and realizing that no, sodomizing yourself with a boot labeled "FFXI" is not fun. Eventually you'll all wake up and realize that, especially if content keeps going this direction.

The best you can hope for is looking back on the game and thinking about how much you enjoyed it, once its all come to pass. its why I'm dropping out now... I want to remember this game fondly, not keep going until the only memories i have left are 0/400 on VW Drops and "Whoever" continues turning this game that I once loved to play more than any other game ever, into a steaming pile of dead sh*t.

... I still like keeping up with the games progression, Check in every day or so. Hoping maybe they change the direction of the game, or release enjoyable content thats challenges extend beyond the drop rates. I also like the community... Mostly. So I haven't completely given up on FFXI, I'm just at the point my faith is low enough to not warrant 12.95.

[Llana_Virren]

The best you can hope for is looking back on the game and thinking about how much you enjoyed it, once its all come to pass.

Sadly, no game has achieved true immortality, although a few Legend of Zeldas and older FFs have come to be pseudo-immune to the flow of time.

Now, I play FFXI only because my friends do. Of course, I'll probably "try" FFIV for the sake of trying it, but I never really cared for the job system of FF2 which -14 reintroduces. I think that the Nova Crystallis concept was good, as it allowed for multiple games under the same umbrella mythos to be applied (although FF13 was "ok", at least 13-2 tried to repair the stupidity) and go to by-title named FF games.

[Karbuncle]

I tried "TERA" Because my friends did. While it was fun for a while, I'm really tired of new MMOs pumping out the "White, Green, Blue, Orange" Weapon system. Maybe FFXI has spoiled me, But i like unique weapons and NMs, Job changes, Jobs being able to wear different armor types and designs...

A lot of new MMOs just seem to give you 1 Selection of Weapons, and 1 Selection of Armor, and All of it is about as unique as a field full of Black-and-white Flowers. Boring, unimaginative, and lazy. Each Weapon and Armor and accessory is just a +1 Of the previous weapon, armor, or accessory. It would be like if the Entire Ring/Earring system in FFXI consisted only of the Metal Earring (Copper, Silver, Gold, etc) and the Bone-R.Acc rings (Acc-2 R.acc+2 etc etc). Theres no uniqueness, no flavor.

Thats the one thing i'll truly remember fondly of FFXI, Getting unique stuff. When i see new Weapons/armor, I'm excited to see how they look, what unique stats are on them, what situations i can use them for... etc etc. Also, A game that has reached "Immortal status" with me? Megaman Legends I and II, I only wish they were longer...