[dev1103] The problem with Voidwatch Final Chapter

[Zumi]

Ok SE you made Voidwatch and all along only 1 person needed the relevant key items to pop the NMs. Other participants didn't need anything else but voidstones to participate in the fight and get drops.

Now we have the final voidwatch area which is only accessible if you have cleared Jeuno tier 6 and everything before it. I myself am missing 2 Jeuno T6 clears which nobody does shouts for because they have unpopular drops. I am sure there are people who are missing far more then me.

Even if you do get all your clears. The final voidwatch fight is rather restrictive and making a group is very difficult because there are not many people who have all the previous voidwatch NM clears.

I think it is a bad idea to require all the previous VW NM clears just to fight the Final bosses. All along in the previous chapters of voidwatch you never required people to have all the VW NMs killed to fight the new mobs.

Which made it so people rarely went back to kill older tiers unless they had a good drop so many mobs are just never fought

Most players are unable to do the new content in this April update, I think that is bad due to the fact it was never required and since this wasn't on the test server we couldn't of given feedback about it.

Please lift the requirement of having to beat all the previous void watch fights to do the final battles.

[Savlyn]

You do realize that if everyone needs to get all the clears... there will be people doing them, right? Probably for the next year there will be shouts every few days for the random ones.

[Zumi]

I haven't seen a single shout for clears on my server. I seen Keggen, Qlilin, Pil all the usual stuff people like to spam. Seems like people just don't care about doing new content.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I see nothing but climb shouts all day, every day.

[Dew]

It's fine the way it is. You want to get to final ones, then do the rest.

[Babekeke]

I haven't seen a single shout for clears on my server. I seen Keggen, Qlilin, Pil all the usual stuff people like to spam. Seems like people just don't care about doing new content.

Probably because until people reach T4 Jeuno, they can 6-man most of them, so they will justy do them with friends. Our group hates to shout for people if we can do it without them because they won't be on TS with us, you don't know if they have skills up for procs/if they know how to play their job/have all temps/ etc. etc. etc.

[Tile]

I saw shouts all day for all the jeuno fights, people realized they need jeuno done so they started doing them.

As for your comment about just letting anyone go and do it, there is a Story to VW, and alot of quests in it. its like a miny mission set. Shouldn't complain that you can't to do last mission when your only 1/2 done.

I see it as Atleast you only need jeuno win, I have my RoZ clear, but still missing afew VWNMs for my CoP and ToaU clears. but since I got jeuno I was able to get into new zones and start the timer for the New KIs used for fights.

The only thing I'm worried about is when they finally at Cait Sith as an avatar it will be a Grey one, instead of a Black one

[Cowardlybabooon]

Shout yourself?

[Camiie]

I know right now on Fenrir, at least during the times I'm on, I don't see any shouts for anything below the Jueno tier. If you haven't started yet or you're missing something below that, you might as well forget about it.

[Mahoro]

This content is no different from other zone restrictions in Sky, Sea, etc. More relevant an analogy is Shinryu, and people accessed that just fine with time. I understand all the previous VW fights were open, but certainly with the precedent in game, it should not come as a shock that for the final chapter people were required to be up on their cutscenes to access the final fight.

I saw plenty of Jeuno shouts on my server last night too. Start your own shout (only need like 6 people for cities, maybe 12 for lower Jeuno tiers).

[Zumi]

Guess your guys server is different then mine still have yet to see a single jeuno clear shout.

[Asymptotic]

Just wait for people to figure out they need those clears. There was a sudden surge of city shouts last night on my server.

[Karbuncle]

I happen to tend to agree with the OP, For different reason.

Comparing it to sky access is really rather silly/stupid, or any mission/Storyline for that matter. Because for Sky/Mission Access you knew from the beginning that it would require you to get to Sky through Zilart, Or clear CoP for Sea, or what have you.

But Voidwatch is different. since its been released, Voidwatch has been about free access to Voidwatch Battles regardless of what Battle you yourself were on. Since its introduction, Only 1 person needed to have the clears for the battle to be had. The entire premise was being able to fight regardless of your abyssite level, so long as you had your abyssites at T1.

Now they suddenly throw a curve-ball and have a Voidwatch Battlefield that requires every single "Storyline" Clear (Cities + Jeuno - Botulus/ig). I mean, a Lot of people got the clears, But I personally only cleared up to Jeuno. I can go back and do them no problem, I just have a problem with the idea that voidwatch has always been about freely experiencing the content so long as someone could pop, and now suddenly the exclusive battlefield is shoved in our face.

If from the beginning I had to do all the wins to participate, It wouldn't be a problem. Because I, and the playerbase, would be prepared and expecting the final battlefield to be exclusive and need clears. Half the posts on BG after it was released were people asking about how to enter, and, "If everyone needed the KI or just one person".

People were expecting it to be like every other Voidwatch battle. 1 Person needs the KI, other can participate, but not progress story-line wise.

Long story short, I see where the OP Is coming from, and while getting the clears isn't a difficult task, Its still a little BS that this content was designed to be able to participate whenever, and needing clear was never necessary, then needing clears suddenly becomes entirely necessary.

I get the strange feeling a lot of you may be the people who have all the clears going "That'll teach them!". If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But this is not like much we've experienced to date. The only similarity i can draw is Shinryu.

[Gatrie]

I don't understand why this is a huge deal? You realize that to get access to everything that has drops needed in the game you need to progress through the missions right?

Zilart for sky access, CoP for Sea and Limbus access, ToAU for Assault Salvage and Einherjar access... Why would you think Voidwatch would be any different?

SE has done a great job (or made it more annoying depending on how you look at it) by requiring players to make their way through old content to get to new content.

Best example I have is Empyrean weapons. All the trials if you have noticed require you fight an NM in all the content of the expansions, i.e one in normal areas, one from Zilart, one from CoP, and one from Past(No ToAU NMs >.<)... This is something that is no where close to new and because you think it's wrong or a bad idea only makes me think you are a newer player >.<

[svengalis]

I don't understand why this is a huge deal? You realize that to get access to everything that has drops needed in the game you need to progress through the missions right?

Zilart for sky access, CoP for Sea and Limbus access, ToAU for Assault Salvage and Einherjar access... Why would you think Voidwatch would be any different?

SE has done a great job (or made it more annoying depending on how you look at it) by requiring players to make their way through old content to get to new content.

Best example I have is Empyrean weapons. All the trials if you have noticed require you fight an NM in all the content of the expansions, i.e one in normal areas, one from Zilart, one from CoP, and one from Past(No ToAU NMs >.<)... This is something that is no where close to new and because you think it's wrong or a bad idea only makes me think you are a newer player >.<

I guess you failed to read the og post or the one above you. They clearly explain why this is a big deal.

[Camiie]

They like to jump the shark these days. Free access to gated content, mob kills to geodes/Avatarites, level 90 Empyrean trials to heavy metal plates.

[Siiri]

I try to stay out of casual vs hardcore discussion, but seriously just get the clears. Its not that hard. The final battle should be restricted to those who climbed. For another example beyond those given, dynamis xarc required all city clears and glacier clears. Please make people get some basic accomplishments. If you want easy mode go solo dyna on your bst or do Abyssea. Nothing wrong with a couple large alliance events that require clearing content before you get to the final battle.

[svengalis]

I try to stay out of casual vs hardcore discussion, but seriously just get the clears. Its not that hard. The final battle should be restricted to those who climbed. For another example beyond those given, dynamis xarc required all city clears and glacier clears. Please make people get some basic accomplishments. If you want easy mode go solo dyna on your bst or do Abyssea. Nothing wrong with a couple large alliance events that require clearing content before you get to the final battle.
I hate when people use this argument, example: "If you want easy content go play WoW." It's not about easy content it's about actually being able to do the content. I saw someone shout for a voidwatch alliance for like 4 hours before they got enough people. I don't want to go through that to be able to enjoy the game.

[Sparthos]

I get the strange feeling a lot of you may be the people who have all the clears going "That'll teach them!". If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But this is not like much we've experienced to date. The only similarity i can draw is Shinryu.

Frankly the wall makes it harder for people like myself with the clears to actually experience the content because unless you've got an LS doing runs you're SOL.

Same deal w/Legion.

2/3rds of a VU will be inaccessible by most players meaning the content might as well not be there.

[Krashport]

How Final Fantasy XI has changed... Lv.1-10 naked 20mins, Lv.10-30 BB leech spot(400k) AFK naked 5 hours, Lv.30-95 Abyssea leech spot(1mil) AFK naked 16hours, AF what? there is no reason for it. Just use all that Cruor from leeching on emp gear. not naked anymore, runs to the forums skilling up takes to long. SE adds skill up food/gear... shouting in jeuno for help with LB... runs to the forums it's to hard, SE makes it easier. I'm not saying this is how everyone plays Final Fantasy XI (You know who you are), but having the game playing without you being there and making it to easy isn't playing the game.

Ok now we're up to Voidwatch hmm.... ok I can't remember anyone complaining about having to get access to sky in order to do those VW, I feel it's fine the way it is and if Square Enix do change it that's fine also, but then again... if said person has not complete the walk through VW said person will not advance into getting their own Key item upgraded, will only rely on others for a handout like they been doing to Square Enix on these forums. Somethings are meant to be tough. If Square Enix makes it easy fine let it be another thing that is easy. I mean this is an online game and things do and will take a lot of time. I can't help to wonder why said people are on fast-ward. If said person don't do the before content the after content you'll know nothing and would just hear and read about it and not experience it.

How about said person can experience the battles and those CS without being able to get loot until they have upgraded their Key items. this way it's a win/win they get new content, but they still have to give an effort on upgrading cause it's all about new content right and not relying on others for upgraded key items. ^^

Oh well am not against nor agree with the OP, Voidwatch; to be continued.

[Vagrua]

Rounding up a party/alliance through shouts/yells doesn't necessarily mean you can complete them. After getting the people together, there's always a chance they will leave, go afk, etc. Losing your tanks or healers can ruin the entire alliance.

Without a Linkshell to run with, you're never guaranteed anything.

I do agree with the OP, in a sense, that everyone should be able to experience this content because of the point I stated above.

The arguments mentioned in this thread about other content relying on clears to proceed further don't point out that it's almost all soloable and duoable now. Voidwatch is a different story.

[Rezeak]

The only issue imo is that you can't get credit for fight you've done until you've go the stratum.

Outside that VW has a storyline and the final fight require you go though the entire storyline like with every other story line.

imo i'm glad SE went this direction with the game combining story line and endgame it's sad to see fun fight like Alexander be killed once and forgotten this way theys no lack of help for story content.

As a side note in 1 day i did all T1-4 Bastok, Windy and Sandy for a friend these fight are a joke now (so is all of T1-5 jeuno minus 1 or 2 fights)

[Gatrie]

I guess you failed to read the og post or the one above you. They clearly explain why this is a big deal.

Listen to what you are saying... 4hrs is nothing compared to some of the time people have put into the game. By the new player base, I understand how this may seem like forever to you. But deal with it! You want to great, omg, wow items put the effort in for them.

Personally, I think this is a terrible idea to make the game EASIER than it is... You are talking about developers that made a mob unbeatable for 7+ years, why would they hand everything to you on a silver platter now? My opinion, bash on it all you like can almost guarantee nothing will change.

[Mahoro]

I still think the closest analogy is Shinryu. Abyssea zones were open to all, everyone was fighting in them, then SE tied a storyline to certain mobs that had to be beaten and certain CS's in order to reach the final zone of Abyssea. Then people did them, even though they weren't constantly being killed or shouted for, and in a month or two, Shinryu access was a joke.

So too, Provenance access will be.

[Alhanelem]

How Final Fantasy XI has changed... Lv.1-10 naked 20mins, Lv.10-30 BB leech spot(400k) AFK naked 5 hours, Lv.30-95 Abyssea leech spot(1mil)If you have to pay gil to level up, then you don't have any friends. Sorry.

[Krashport]

If you have to pay gil to level up, then you don't have any friends. Sorry.

I totally agree! lol

[Sfchakan]

Everything is fine. Nothing is wrong with it. Go do the per-requisites and stop complaining. Don't see a shout? Shout yourself and get it done.

[Kaych]

The only problem I have is that they wrote this:
"The summoner ability Modus Veritas will not trigger enemy weaknesses."

Just lol -.-

[Alhanelem]

Everything is fine. Nothing is wrong with it. Go do the per-requisites and stop complaining. Don't see a shout? Shout yourself and get it done.

Strong Bad (looking at note taped on monitor): "Everything is fine, nothing is ruined. Oh, well that's goo- WAIT A MINUITE" (tears note off revealing BSOD) "Flagrant error?!?! That's not a good sign!" ... "And the compy, just peed my carpet."

[detlef]

I still think the closest analogy is Shinryu. Abyssea zones were open to all, everyone was fighting in them, then SE tied a storyline to certain mobs that had to be beaten and certain CS's in order to reach the final zone of Abyssea. Then people did them, even though they weren't constantly being killed or shouted for, and in a month or two, Shinryu access was a joke.

So too, Provenance access will be.
There are few notable differences. You can duo any Abyssea zone boss. People were killing them for Empy anyway so there was a very good chance you could just show up at the zone and get a free win.

You could also kill them in any order. I'm sure there are people who have killed every single VW NM but are screwed because they had the gall to kill them in the wrong order.

[Zumi]

Everything is fine. Nothing is wrong with it. Go do the per-requisites and stop complaining. Don't see a shout? Shout yourself and get it done.

From my point of view here is what happened with FFXI. Abyssea killed the majority of hardcore large scale linkshells, there might be a couple left but they are few and far between. So the server community seems to solely rely on pugs to do most everything in the game from abyssea farming, exp, and void watch. If something is viewed as too hard it just flat out gets ignored by the majority of the playerbase. See neo nyzul, legion, and now VW Finale. So the people who like doing new content are out of luck pretty much. The game has shifted form doing stuff with LS to PUG everything.

Saying make your own group is easier said then done because very few people would want to join a Ocythoe group, which is the one I actually need. Awhile I was stuck on Jeuno T2 for about 3 months, I try making my own group 3 times the most i would get is 3-6 people then I gave up after about an hour of shouting when I see it wasn't going anywhere. Eventaully I found a group that was doing T1-T3 and did all that in a day.

The majority of people who do shouts do it for 1 NM that the want a 1% drop on that popular enough to get a lot of people fast. Its not that easy to get people for a NM like Ocythoe with unpopular drops.

VW clears are much more difficult then Shinyru which I had no problem getting because almost all the NMs required for it were duoable, which is way different then getting an alliance of 18 together. The only thing that needed something special was Rani since a brew was required but then people were always shouting for that because they wanted the ring it dropped and it was very easy to find someone brewing it during when Shinryu was popular.

I am afraid that VW finale will be pretty much ignored like legion and neo nyzul. I don't even care about the drops in VW at all, I just want to fight the bosses finish the storyline. Since 1% sidegrades which VW is full of for the most part really don't interest me much mainly want to see the conclusion of the story and beat each fight once just to see how it is.

[Savlyn]

So much wrong that it needs to be taken in parts:



Saying make your own group is easier said then done because very few people would want to join a Ocythoe group, which is the one I actually need.

There are other people who need them too. A TON of people I would imagine, because everyone feels the same way. They didn't do the climbs, just skipped to the "good stuff". You can make your own group. If it means that much to you, you'll find a way to get it done.

If you can't get it done in a day, then how about a week? Over that week there is bound to be that one group that you mention who spams it for the 1% drop.



then I gave up
This makes me happy.



Eventaully I found a group that was doing T1-T3 and did all that in a day.

Exactly. They're easy. Find one group that's doing a branch (shouting, LS, friends, GOING to the area and waiting, etc) and you can get it done. If it took a day to kill one monster, then yeah, its understandable to say that's hard. But... T1-T4 Takes maybe two or three hours.



VW clears are much more difficult then Shinyru which I had no problem getting because almost all the NMs required for it were duoable

*sigh*
When this stuff was first released, it wasn't duoable. When Abyssea came out initially, it was full alliances. Lv cap raises, new zones are released, parties shrunk in size because people got the hang of it. Another lv cap raise, same deal. And finally 99, everything is duoable.

Have people really forgotten that the level cap increase was over the course of a year and not instantly? New things will always be hard... until people figure out how to make them easier. (Players, not Developers). Old CoP used to take WEEKs or longer to go from beginning to getting sea access. And for those of you who we're around then, Shinryu access was just a mini version that took much less time to get. If anything, having the final VW fight only allowing people who actually put in effort to enter is a good thing. Yes, it might take time to do all the fights leading up there, but GOOD. A way to actually pass time in FFXI instead of AFKing in Jeuno.



I am afraid that VW finale will be pretty much ignored like legion and neo nyzul.

People do Legion. Its quite fun, actually. Neo nyzul isn't as bad with the new system and it seems to be improving. And, I'd bet all of my gil that the finale of VW will be going strong for the next year at least.



I don't even care about the drops in VW at all, I just want to fight the bosses finish the storyline.
mainly want to see the conclusion of the story and beat each fight once just to see how it is.

*le second sigh*
Again, there are people who feel the same way. People will want to do each fight. And, its just plain hypocrisy to want a story to play through... without the challenge of beating things in order to progress.

If you plan to do every fight anyway, why is this thread even here?

I completely understand making statements to the developers when things aren't right, or are really unbeatable, but this is not one of those times.

[Mahoro]

Yeah, Shinryu isn't a perfect analogy (note however that Raja/Rani were challenging at the time Shinryu was released), but it still served as precedent for the last year when we were clearing tiers of content and getting CS's and story progression. I still think now that people have a "reason" to clear stuff (see Meteor thread too), the groups are being formed fast and furious. I saw at least 6 shout groups on Lakshmi doing clears last night, Ocythoe being one of them.

As for the PUG vs. linkshell debate, that can open a whole offtopic Pandora's box, but I'll just say that I couldn't have been the only person who recognized the better part of 2011 that SE was leading us somewhere and forced my LS through multiple progression event nights to get everyone cleared.

[Zumi]

I keep the FFXIAH shouts on tab in my browser in case someone is doing Ocythoe or an all T6 clear. Check it while I work on other stuff. I really don't have a reason to log in the game unless I see someone doing that run. Not too much else I can really do at this point on FFXI. I don't care about spamming endless VW mobs for that 1% sidegrade drop.

I am the type of person who beat all the CoP, ToAU, WotG missions the first day they are out.

I log in on patch day only to see like people spamming more Pils instead of actually trying to progress on the VW quests. It's pretty disappointing.

[Savlyn]

I am the type of person who beat all the CoP, ToAU, WotG missions the first day they are out.


Your posts make me smile. :)

[Fupafighter]

Hell if anything, don't do the VW clears for the finale, do them for the VW warps all over the place, as it is very nice. I do think it is nice that you need your clears though. It atleast assures that the group you're going with has experience with VW. It's sickening when you go to VW and there is a pink thf or pink mnk with twilight belt in your cor pty while you're sitting there with say your 90 verethregna with no buffs. You're not supposed to get the good shit til you clear the boring shit. FFXI has always been like this. Gotta do boring ass sea to get rajas/brutal. Gotta do Wings of the goddess for a week straight to get 25 tp bonus lol. Gotta beat sky just to get a silly earring, why should VW be any different.

[Fupafighter]

I keep the FFXIAH shouts on tab in my browser in case someone is doing Ocythoe or an all T6 clear. Check it while I work on other stuff. I really don't have a reason to log in the game unless I see someone doing that run. Not too much else I can really do at this point on FFXI. I don't care about spamming endless VW mobs for that 1% sidegrade drop.

I am the type of person who beat all the CoP, ToAU, WotG missions the first day they are out.

I log in on patch day only to see like people spamming more Pils instead of actually trying to progress on the VW quests. It's pretty disappointing.
I will not accept you only logging in for VW tier 6 and you saying you gotz nothin to do until you get yo burtgang and aeigs lol! Nice pld though.

[Alhanelem]

Is the final chapter just a single fight or several?

[Alkimi]

Three battlefields with 2x Caturae in them to get the KIs (although they are available from other sources) and Provenance Watcher battlefield.

[Foxx]

I do not see a problem with the way it is set up. The problem is people want something for nothing and that is not fair for the people who put in the work. Stop complaining like little babies and shout for help until you get it. This stuff is not hard.

[Zumi]

Finished the last clear today. Upon zoning into Provenance I saw 63 people in the zone all JP players except like 1 or 2.

Pretty much good game. Now how are you suppose to finish VW? NA seem to not care about this at all. To even make a group they would have to allow people who didn't do all the clears in since the majority of the NA player base doesn't have them. Maybe come back 3 months when people catch up.