Suggested Adjustments to Legion

[Gippo]

Dear SE,

In regards to Legion:

This content has been long awaited by the playerbase, as a new activity to participate in. However, we are optimistic and hopeful that refinements will be made to increase this event's lifespan in FFXI. We fear that without further investigation, this event will quickly lose interest across all servers.

To be blunt, the content should be scaled down. We do understand that this content was never meant to be abyssea level difficulty, and has been tailored to higher level content with LVL 99 players in mind. However, in its current form, for example, no group has reported to have even dented tier 2, let alone see the boss in any of the 4 known chambers.

In regards to battle content, the FFXI playerbase has always prided itself on the ability to be successful with different PT setups and battle strategies, yet still reach a common goal. However, all known strategies being currently employed by the best geared/skilled players across all servers leads to the same conclusion: In its condition, the event is not scaled properly, and as such, the content is impossible to complete with the current limitations.

Suggested changes:
1. Adjust monster pathing to allow for areas to recover without aggro
2. Decrease HP and/or Attack values of mobs.
3. For the 36 man entry, institute a time increase upon clearing Tier 1. 15 minutes would be appropriate.
4. Adjust monster spawn locations so they do not spawn directly where players enter.
5. Currently killing elementals yields 1 temp item to the player that kills the monster. Increase this to be all players in the current alliance, or adjust temp items received. For example, 1 healing mist is not worth the time required to kill each elemental given how the content is scaled.
6. Player time/reward is also not scaled properly, even for linkshells that have ordered gear distribution. For example, any ring with limited charges, should not require 1000 points with the current difficulty. Increase points aquired per mob killed, or decrease the cost of rings, and add additional gear at the current 1000 point cost.
7. The entrance fee is appropriate, if in our opinion, there is at minimum a 30% chance of reaching each tier's 7th mob and defeating it. However, the current price does not scale when you have an impossible task of clearing 7 mobs of this insane difficulty in only 30 minutes. Players will not sacrifice their gil when this "fee" provides them no chance to better their characters at all.
8. If you do not intend on adjusting this event by any of the means we have listed, remove exp scrolls as a drop item from each mob, and force each mob to drop an item worthy of this current content.

Thank you for your time.

[saevel]

They made it a bit ridiculous to prevent the super buffed people from clearing it too quickly. SE wants them to bang their heads against the wall over and over again for a few months at least. Then SE will come in and lower it's difficulty a bit, namely actually allow you to kill in a reasonable amount of time.

[Alkimi]

institute a time increase upon clearing Tier 1. 15 minutes would be appropriate.


Especially agree with this part. Even with 36 you're looking at taking most of your time limit up just defeating the first and easiest wave. A time extension of 15 mins each for defeating the first and second waves would make it possible, but still damn hard to do.

[Cabalabob]

Dear SE,

In regards to Legion:

This content has been long awaited by the playerbase, as a new activity to participate in. However, we are optimistic and hopeful that refinements will be made to increase this event's lifespan in FFXI. We fear that without further investigation, this event will quickly lose interest across all servers.

To be blunt, the content should be scaled down. We do understand that this content was never meant to be abyssea level difficulty, and has been tailored to higher level content with LVL 99 players in mind. However, in its current form, for example, no group has reported to have even dented tier 2, let alone see the boss in any of the 4 known chambers.

In regards to battle content, the FFXI playerbase has always prided itself on the ability to be successful with different PT setups and battle strategies, yet still reach a common goal. However, all known strategies being currently employed by the best geared/skilled players across all servers leads to the same conclusion: In its condition, the event is not scaled properly, and as such, the content is impossible to complete with with the current limitations.

It's a bit early to be saying this, the content has been out for what? A week? Do you think anyone had Even reached Odin within a week of the release of einherjar? Let alone worked out a competent strategy and group for beating the wings, same goes for dyna, Nyzul, sea, sky, limbus, pretty much any endgame content. Give it time and a workable strategy will come about, it's too early to be wanting it simplified

[Daniel_Hatcher]

People got too comfortable with Abyssea style content, it will take a while before they actually learn to play a game not made for Casuals.

If this style was added before Abyssea, lolWatch and such came out then people would have beat it by now.

However; I do agree with a time increase on defeat though much less than 15 minutes.

[Gippo]

It's a bit early to be saying this, the content has been out for what? A week? Do you think anyone had Even reached Odin within a week of the release of einherjar? Let alone worked out a competent strategy and group for beating the wings, same goes for dyna, Nyzul, sea, sky, limbus, pretty much any endgame content.

No. It is not too early, because for the reasons I laid out in my post, if you truly want content to be long lasting, the fundamentals must exist to make it so. Currently the flaws that exist are the reasons why you don't see people doing this event.

Please do not compare previous endgame activities to this specific event, as they are not similar at all. There is a huge difference for criticizing content that is challenging/not easily understood with Legion, because Legion is by its very nature broken for the reasons I listed above.


Give it time and a workable strategy will come about
You're being too optimistic that SE is already aware of the flaws of the system. You are also assuming the playerbase will continue to do this event in the hopes that a solution will "work itself out." This is misguided hope.
My hope, on the other hand, is to give feedback that is not just critical, but give suggestions on how to fix the problem.
Re-read my suggestions again if you need to, but if you actually attempt this content, you will see that the requests made above are in fact legitimate and a 2nd look should be given to Legion by the dev team immediately.

Thanks.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You're deluded if you think people aren't doing this event.

[Alkimi]

Maybe design it for 18 rather than 36 (which it seems to be). We have one of the biggest linkshells and we can't get anywhere near 36 people.

[Sparthos]

People got too comfortable with Abyssea style content, it will take a while before they actually learn to play a game not made for Casuals.

If this style was added before Abyssea, lolWatch and such came out then people would have beat it by now.

However; I do agree with a time increase on defeat though much less than 15 minutes.

So far it does maintain the pre-Abyssean gather a bunch of people for 1 or maybe 2 drops for the effort though.

36 people and they really think this event will be popular without loot backing it? Nothing changes.

[saevel]

We did this earlier, mostly people we know with a couple of /shout members.

Difficulty is their HP vs the time limit. We wiped the first time because we didn't know what to expect. Following runs we ended up timing out but otherwise were perfectly capable of beating it. Turtle is entirely too long to kill with it's ridiculously 600+ hits and 1.3K crits, otherwise the other two aren't hard.

Tone down the HP and offensive damage and it'll be perfect.

[Monchat]

took them exactly 1 year to fix einherjar, just saying. Yeah they lowered mob's HP the month after but it still took my ls 9 fuckign month to get 25+ members their 9 feathers. They are just fixing WoE and have yet to fix VW.

[Luvbunny]

It's typical SE, create contents, let it languish, do minor tweak, abandon it soon after, create new contents, repeat. You see this with assaults, moblin maze, chocobo racing, etc. It will soon be a year after void watch first introduced, and yet no ticketing system has been implemented. Doubt they will do anything to Legion either. It will be another dead content similar to Neo Nyzul and Walk of Echoes. How is it that they learn absolutely nothing... abyssea is one of their most successful content, meaning tons of people still doing it and it's fairly doable with any size of party. Reward = risk ratio = effort.

[Duelle]

abyssea is one of their most successful content, meaning tons of people still doing it and it's fairly doable with any size of party. Reward = risk ratio = effort.And yet it was considered a "mistake".

[Camate]

Howdy everyone!

Two weeks have passed since the version update and we are certain that some of you are starting to conquer this content. We have received a ton of feedback on this new battle content and would like give some comments.

• Difficulty
Since this battle content is for high level players, the difficulty is pretty high but that doesn't mean that it is impossible to conquer. It can be conquered by giving some thought to your battle tactics so please keep on trying to find the best path.
(The battle concept differs depending on the battle field and the key is to change tactics depending on the behavior of the 3 monsters that spawn simultaneously.)

• Battle Balance for 18-person/36-person versions
We are considering lowering the difficulty for the 18-person version.


o Difference in the Amount of HP
The only difference in the difficulty for the 18-person version and the 36-person version is the amount of the monster's HP. For the 36-person, the monster's HP will increase by 50% compared to the 18-person. However, considering players’ attack capability, the group of 36 will have double the power compared to the group of 18 and the amount of the monster's HP is not balanced properly based on this ratio.
To balance the ratio, we are considering lowering the monster's HP for the 18-person version to be half the amount of the 36-person version.

o Adjustment on the Cost
The cost to participate in Legion will be double in the case players participate in a 36-person version, but looking at the loot, this ratio does not fit so we are considering cutting the cost to half of the current cost to balance out the difference in the number of participants.

• Items exchangeable with Legion Points
Item that can be obtained through the exchange of Legion Points will get better by achieving new titles from Legion, but as a result, the choice of items are very small in the beginning, so we are considering to open up all of these items from the start. In addition, we are planning to add an advantage where the amount of Legion Points required to obtain each item will decrease by conquering Legion.

[Insaniac]

• Difficulty
Since this battle content is for high level players, the difficulty is pretty high but that doesn't mean that it is impossible to conquer. It can be conquered by giving some thought to your battle tactics so please keep on trying to find the best path.
(The battle concept differs depending on the battle field and the key is to change tactics depending on the behavior of the 3 monsters that spawn simultaneously.)I issue a "prove it" challenge to the dev team. I require a full 30 minute video of them beating all 3 waves of any chamber. No chat log zooming either.

[Raksha]

I issue a "prove it" challenge to the dev team. I require a full 30 minute video of them beating all 3 waves of any chamber. No chat log zooming either.

keep in mind content is supposedly balanced so as not to require r/m/e weapons also.

I find it difficult to beleive that 18 or 36 non-r/m/e DDs can beat all monsters in a wave.

there's just no way.

[Alhanelem]

keep in mind content is supposedly balanced so as not to require r/m/e weapons also.

I find it difficult to beleive that 18 or 36 non-r/m/e DDs can beat all monsters in a wave.

there's just no way.
During the test event, our most successful attempt had no wiping and minimal death, but in the time limit, we could only clear one wave. We had some time for the second wave but could not defeat any of them before time ran out.

However, progression in legion doesn't require a full clear as far as I can tell. At the same time, what's the point in having monsters that nobody is going to be able to kill within the time limit?

[Helel]

I definitely think it's possible to clear legion in its current state, however garnering the amount of people needed to complete it is horribly tedious. It takes me forever to get enough people to do a run.

People need more incentive to do legion or it will die a quick death. You need to fix this event asap before it's too late (e.g. WoE).

[Fupafighter]

It's the fact that half the people that want legion are +1 samurai's and such lol. I did like 3 runs and realized that the leaders just invite whoever to fill the pty and gave up lol :/

[Monchat]

I issue a "prove it" challenge to the dev team. I require a full 30 minute video of them beating all 3 waves of any chamber. No chat log zooming either.

the dev team only has 5 members, they cannot do the event by themself lol...

But seriously, if they were to do it, you can bet they'd bring in 30 BLM with meteor and a "holding pt" of 6 with PLD and such and prove you it's possible...

[Jile]

I hate to say it but...

While these changes are being considered, could there also be an additional scaled down version that is intended for a 6 man group to go in and get something done, be added.

I'm sure there are those who miss the HNMLS days and missed these large scale events; however, I rather enjoy being able to low man/solo events like Dynamis and would enjoy smaller groups for an event like this.

[saevel]

They know the content isn't clearable right now, well not full clearable. You can clear one the first wave of each zone using a combination of PLD's holding mobs, classic zerging and mana burning. There isn't any special tactics really, just survive as best you can while beating down their HP. And ultimately that is the issue, the NM's HP is simply too high and the time too limited for you to full clear a zone and thus have a chance at the good drops. Cut the HP in half and give us a 45min time limit, or a 10 min extension after each "wave".

[Mahoro]

Howdy everyone!

Two weeks have passed since the version update and we are certain that some of you are starting to conquer this content. We have received a ton of feedback on this new battle content and would like give some comments.

• Difficulty
Since this battle content is for high level players, the difficulty is pretty high but that doesn't mean that it is impossible to conquer. It can be conquered by giving some thought to your battle tactics so please keep on trying to find the best path.
(The battle concept differs depending on the battle field and the key is to change tactics depending on the behavior of the 3 monsters that spawn simultaneously.)

• Battle Balance for 18-person/36-person versions
We are considering lowering the difficulty for the 18-person version.


o Difference in the Amount of HP
The only difference in the difficulty for the 18-person version and the 36-person version is the amount of the monster's HP. For the 36-person, the monster's HP will increase by 50% compared to the 18-person. However, considering players’ attack capability, the group of 36 will have double the power compared to the group of 18 and the amount of the monster's HP is not balanced properly based on this ratio.
To balance the ratio, we are considering lowering the monster's HP for the 18-person version to be half the amount of the 36-person version.

o Adjustment on the Cost
The cost to participate in Legion will be double in the case players participate in a 36-person version, but looking at the loot, this ratio does not fit so we are considering cutting the cost to half of the current cost to balance out the difference in the number of participants.

• Items exchangeable with Legion Points
Item that can be obtained through the exchange of Legion Points will get better by achieving new titles from Legion, but as a result, the choice of items are very small in the beginning, so we are considering to open up all of these items from the start. In addition, we are planning to add an advantage where the amount of Legion Points required to obtain each item will decrease by conquering Legion.

Camate, thank you for the feedback regarding the dev's suggested adjustments. My one overriding question concerns the 36-man chamber.

You state that the devs are considering lowering the difficulty of the 18-person chamber by giving the monsters 50% HP of the 36-man chamber. While I think this is a necessary and logical change, can you comment as to whether there are exclusive titles and/or rewards that can only be obtained by doing the 36-man chamber? If the only difference between the chambers is in the HP of the monsters, there does not appear to be a sufficient incentive to bother gathering 36 people and dealing with the attendant logistical difficulties.

Also, has there been any consideration given to increasing the time limit to 45 minutes to make the event fall more in line with WoE? As it stands, in order to fully clear a chamber 7/7, each NM must be defeated in 4.28 minutes. As such, there is only one potential strategy I see accomplishing that for each monster, and it would seem that the devs' intention to change tactics depending on the behavior of the monsters would be frustrated by such a strategy.

[Alhanelem]

can you comment as to whether there are exclusive titles and/or rewards that can only be obtained by doing the 36-man chamber?There isn't. If anything, winning with a smaller group would be more deserving of special titles and whatnot.

Also, the 36 man group should still do better as odds are more of the 18 people you add are going to be damage, not support, so in reality you'll probably more than double your attack power.

The point of the 19-36 man option (it scales linearly between 18 and 36) is to allow those who want to bring more people to do so without making it too easy nor punishing them for doing so.

[Mahoro]

While I heavily suspect what you are saying to be true, and it can be inferred from other dev notes, I wouldn't mind getting some more official confirmation.

[Zumi]

There has to be more drops like triple the amount to even give an incentive to bring 36 people. Because it is way logistically harder to get 36 people. Otherwise everyone would just bring 18 people because its much easier to manage.

[Alhanelem]

Not exactly. With 36, you can split into 3 alliances of 12 (after entering) and have each group tackle one of the NMs. In sticky situations you can transfer members from one NM to another, but this is how we beat the first wave for the first time on the test server.

With just 18 people, it would be a lot harder to do this. larger groups don't have to be harder to manage in the case of Legion. By splitting up, it's not hard to manage and it works very well.

[Fupafighter]

Mages should try magic bursting more, And DD should try using ONE type of element. Like only use WS that will make light or throughout the fight, so the mages can hit some good magic bursts over and over.

[saevel]

Mages should try magic bursting more, And DD should try using ONE type of element. Like only use WS that will make light or throughout the fight, so the mages can hit some good magic bursts over and over.

Takes too long, too many DD are holding TP and the additional damage from MB's is only significant on NMs resistant to physical damage, like the turtle. In the case of those NM's, after the first SC / MB the BLM's will immediately become the tanks and will have a choice, stand there and die or run and it turns into a kited mana burn. Your not "PLD" tanking these after you start dealing damage, the hate system doesn't work that way. If you "slow down" your damage to "control hate" then you'll time out and be unable to clear the zone.

The clock is your biggest challenge not the NMs themselves. This is why every single strategy will always boil down to a zerg, either through physical or magical damage.

[Fupafighter]

Thus the whole "use one element". If DD only spam light after light, then Magic bursting will be done over and over. Enmity douse and DD will have have NP.

[MarkovChain]

Hey puppyfighters, skillchains have been proven long ago to be garbage so give us a break. PD zerg spam gooo.

[saevel]

Thus the whole "use one element". If DD only spam light after light, then Magic bursting will be done over and over. Enmity douse and DD will have have NP.

That doesn't happen, ever, unless you have only 1~2 DD on the NM. Otherwise the SC timings restrict TP usage or you get messed up SC's. The NM will also head to the BLMs the moment they hit enmity cap, which doesn't take long. Enmity Douse is a one shot JA, it won't save you here. Once the NM starts to move you got missed SC's, it's a kited Kirin fight all over again for those who remember that. Other option of limiting your DD's means your not dealing enough damage so you time out. There's not one NM but three at once. And your goal isn't to kill three in 30 min but to kill seven in 30 min. As someone else said, four minutes per NM, your not doing that using SC / MB tactics.

It's the clock that is your enemy, the faster you kill the NM's the more loot you obtain. This encouraged a blitz mentality that is counter productive to "PLD tanking" and "SC / MB".

[Fupafighter]

LOl im not saying "save your tp and SC". You notice in VW how the mob constantly has a light animation above its head? And that's with people using different ws. If you have DD spamming Fragmentation or light based weaponskills only, you will see constant MB opportunities. There is no holding tp. And sorry mister anti sam pchan, but skillchain can be epic if you do it right moron. Get off your brainless job of mnk and realize that there is more to the game that ADL spamming with PD. IT WONT WORK ON THREE WAVES. You're a complete idiot. Saevel atleast has valid points in his argument. But saevel, just saying, the constant light SC can be kept up, but will probably result in blm deaths, just like how everyone is already failing, so why not try it lol.

[MarkovChain]

Because magic bursting a spell is a ridiculous increase in damage and only works if your are bringing a retarded amount of BLM compared to DDs. A BLM damage output is like 10x inferior to a gimp DD so yeah, stop acting like you know crap.

Also it's funny that every time I say "PD zerg go" I got idiots claiming it won't work while they current strategy doesn't work. Hahaha. The only persons that can do anything in there currently only bother with the first 3 mobs of each room because they get raped. If you don't want to get raped, what do you do ? Oh yeah, PD ! All the hnms that are not resistant to melee/ranged will be zergable in a few seconds this way, for others well you can think of many ways :

- PD + formless strike/magical weaponskill for non monks /PD + enspells

You'll see that everyone is going to end up doing this kind of strats.

[Fupafighter]

And this is why I refuse to argue with you. GUYS GO GET ON YOUR SMNS AND PD ZERG LEGION!!! IT WILL KILL SEVEN MONSTERS IN ABOUT 2 MINUTES. GOGOGO!!! retard.

[Alhanelem]

And this is why I refuse to argue with you. GUYS GO GET ON YOUR SMNS AND PD ZERG LEGION!!! IT WILL KILL SEVEN MONSTERS IN ABOUT 2 MINUTES. GOGOGO!!! retard.
I think you should reread what you wrote carefully before declaring anyone else to be a "retard."

[Sparthos]

Add Heavy Metal plates or currency to this event pronto.

There is virtually no demand for this event and what is an event if no one gives a shit it exists? What an embarrassment.

[Mahoro]

I wouldn't mind seeing Heavy Metal plates and currency added, but I think the real problem with the events recently added by SE remains the difficulty. There is virtually no demand for Neo-Nyzul either even though the rewards are indisputably great. But the playerbase perceives that event as next to impossible without 3rd-party tools (however true or false that is now with the "stopper" and 25x progression). And so, random searches of the zone only yield like one or two parties at best in peak times. Frankly, that's embarrassing too.

If you want to see the popularity of these events rise, they need to be made more accessible. I don't think "easymode" is required in either case, and I'm not advocating for that at all. But I think increasing the Legion time limit to 45 minutes and decreasing the HP of the mobs would help. And for Nyzul, perhaps decreasing the "spread" of floor jumps to a higher range of numbers when you click "???".

[MarkovChain]

The amount of nyzul gear I see while walking around in Jeuno says otherwise, and I think people at BG are so gimp (like nynja) that they think cheating is actually a necessity to win. Luck is definitely a major factor, but that's the idea behind it. If you don't like random luck build a relic slowly or slowly farm your way to a level 99 weapon.

[Mahoro]

My point was it hasn't been adopted by the majority of the playerbase. I'm looking at Nyzul early evening on a weekend on Lakshmi, and there are 0 parties there. It might not lie as barren as Legion does, but it's still pretty barren.

[Luvbunny]

My point was it hasn't been adopted by the majority of the playerbase. I'm looking at Nyzul early evening on a weekend on Lakshmi, and there are 0 parties there. It might not lie as barren as Legion does, but it's still pretty barren.

Totally agree, I have to say, accessibility is the thing that lack the most after the great spectacular blockbuster that is Abyssea. Everything post abyssea is not very fun, accessible, or enjoyable. With no new content coming, the game is now stagnate again and become a gear collecting activity and grinding for weapons. Nothing else to do but grind grind and grind. Some of the new contents are extremely bad - risk/reward ratio are not even enticing enough for people to do them. Once you finish all the missions, max few jobs merit wise and got your empty gears +2, pretty much time to take a break from the game for 6-8 months till they come with another new content.

[Fupafighter]

There is so much left to do in this game. I'm bored atm, so I'm going to go gear my drg PROPERLY, via healing breath gear, ws gear, tp set, NOT JUST +2 set. If you do a job properly and don't play 15 hours a day, this game should keep you well occupied. Each relic for each job should take 3 months minimum for the average player. Having +2 on a job shouldn't make you feel accomplished :/ Do legion because it offers something new and fun. Do I play basketball or football or halo because it offers rewards? NO, I play it for fun. Get the damn point of the game. It's not a job.

[Gippo]

NO, I play it for fun. Get the damn point of the game. It's not a job.

This is the mentality of pink geared players. And people like you will never understand what we are saying because it requires thought.

Yes, it is a "game." as you say, but being able to see the big picture in terms of what is broken in legion is the point of this thread. Keep your useless drg out of this thread.

[Alhanelem]

This is the mentality of pink geared players. And people like you will never understand what we are saying because it requires thought. You say this like there's something wrong with it. Not everybody wants to play this game all day every day.

There is a place in the game for everyone regardless of play intensity.

[Fupafighter]

I haven't owned pink since abyssea came out lol.

[Fupafighter]

This is the mentality of pink geared players. And people like you will never understand what we are saying because it requires thought.

Yes, it is a "game." as you say, but being able to see the big picture in terms of what is broken in legion is the point of this thread. Keep your useless drg out of this thread.
My point is I'm not going to sit there getting all pissed off if something doesn't drop to me. That's called greed. I only do legion occasionally for fun when I see it in a shout, regardless if I will get reward or not. I have everything I desire except relics and random gear that I don't even know exists yet. You shouldn't have to get reward to feel like you're having fun. You're obviously not seeing the big picture.

[MarkovChain]

Trying to find excuse for mediocre gear. The reason abyssea worked is precisely because anyone could get the gear. Anyone saying grinding seals or cards or scales in abyssea is fun is an hypocrite. The appeal of "new gear" is what makes people keep playing the game, and that's the real fun. The only reason you play is b/c you aim at better stuff, and you admitted it in your post haha.

The lack of reward is not the only reason legion is dead. At 75 when we had 2x more servers and players, people could not get 36 people for AV attempts (2 full allies was the intended way to kill this BS NM), even though getting @ AV camp is a matter of ~5 minutes. So why would people be able to gather 36 in 2012 ? This is the main issue right now imo, waiting for 36 in not fun..

[Fupafighter]

Trying to find excuse for mediocre gear. The reason abyssea worked is precisely because anyone could get the gear. Anyone saying grinding seals or cards or scales in abyssea is fun is an hypocrite. The appeal of "new gear" is what makes people keep playing the game, and that's the real fun. The only reason you play is b/c you aim at better stuff, and you admitted it in your post haha.

The lack of reward is not the only reason legion is dead. At 75 when we had 2x more servers and players, people could not get 36 people for AV attempts (2 full allies was the intended way to kill this BS NM), even though getting @ AV camp is a matter of ~5 minutes. So why would people be able to gather 36 in 2012 ? This is the main issue right now imo, waiting for 36 in not fun..

Alot of people do play just to help and have fun even if there is no reward man. For example, I just decided to gear drg. 4/5 seals and some random blm I don't even know, stayed for a complete set of hand seals even when he didn't need anything and I didn't know him. People do that kind of stuff all the time. It's not always about the reward. In my opinion, that's what makes people greedy. It's playstyle. Some people play for the goals set daily such as say getting their 99 relic upgrade this day or farming a set amount of gil or what not, and then there are people like me and that blm, who if someone offers something, we will join just for the hell of it. Not saying you're a bad player for not being like us, it's just our playstyle and what we find more enjoyable, having fun and making friends. We don't expect results.

[Mahoro]

Not sure why people are focusing on the 36-man chamber when they've already announced their intentions to separate 18-man and 36-man play. We already know 36-man PUGs won't develop anyway, as that chamber requires the communication across allies that can only be provided by a LS pearl. Besides, who in their right mind would want to lot against 35 strangers for each Head or Feet Abjuration??

The event needs to be made accessible to 18-man alliances like Voidwatch was, and that chamber should be nerfed in terms of HP and difficulty ASAP as they've announced. I think the HP in the 36-man version needs to be lowered a bit and stuff like Heavy Metal Plates/Pouches/Riftxxx could be added, but unfortunately Camate didn't address that. Adding more buyable items with Legion points is a good step, perhaps add the Head/Feet Abjurations so the non-LS people can at least work toward stuff instead of trying to outlot 17 other people for each drop.

[Karbuncle]

You say this like there's something wrong with it. Not everybody wants to play this game all day every day.

There is a place in the game for everyone regardless of play intensity.

I didn't know playing casually meant you were mentally retarded. Kinda odd of you to make that conclusion. I say this, because even the most basic of human thought could tell you that a Walhara turban set will likely beat full pink.

You can play for 1 hour a day and still be smart enough to know when something is garbage. Time spent playing is no excuse for being terrible. The only excuse for full pink is "I can count to Potato". end of story.

[Sparthos]

The lack of reward is not the only reason legion is dead. At 75 when we had 2x more servers and players, people could not get 36 people for AV attempts (2 full allies was the intended way to kill this BS NM), even though getting @ AV camp is a matter of ~5 minutes. So why would people be able to gather 36 in 2012 ? This is the main issue right now imo, waiting for 36 in not fun..

Lack of reward is the big stall with Legion right now as it comes down to loot at the end of the day. No one would really care about the difficulty issues if the mobs actually rewarded with items people deem valuable in 2012 which largely boils down to currency, heavy metal or alexandrite or even things like old abjurations.

SE doesn't get this though. They think Legion should just be arbitrarily hard for no reason and mobs should drop scrolls of Fire V when you finally manage to abuse Embrava and Perfect Defense. That'll surely get people to want to do this event. Right.

If every HNM killed dropped 1-3 pouches of Heavy Metal this event would begin to look reasonable for the average player who could organize a kings run and potentially win the first wave without issue. You have an item that pretty much every player on the server needs, the trial requires a huge amount and that means instant demand to join runs - PUG or not.

The items to augment new abjuration gear should also be thrown in along with more full pools (even if its just ingots, jewels and random VW tier crap) to give people actual things to spread around. 18+ people are participating after all.

Lastly why is only the HQ abjuration gear augmentable? Who thought that was reasonable? It's stupid and makes so much of the NQ gear crap since the stats aren't all that strong to begin with when compared to Abyssean era gear. Make it all augmentable so people can be compelled to repeat Legion for the augment items along with the loot.

[Mahoro]

I view the rewards as more akin to WoE. Like WoE, only about 1/4 of the Legion drops are good (mostly the abjurations along with a few great pieces for certain jobs). At least 3/4 are mediocre or bad. But the event is many many times more difficult than WoE, with a shorter time limit to boot. The effort:reward ratio is all skewed, and that isn't acceptable for a new event. They didn't realize that if they are going to make a "WoE on crack" event, they have to provide more incentive than WoE ever had.

If they want people to do the event and have a robust /shout community, I completely agree they should at least put in Heavy Metal/Riftxxx stuff. People still spam WoE for three reasons: 1) the 1/4 pricey good drops amongst the 3/4 mediocre stuff, 2) the Coins and ties to Magian trials, and 3) the fact that the difficulty and effort:reward ratio has been properly tweaked.

Tie this new content to Magian trials, tweak the difficulty to even out the effort:reward ratio, and they will come.

[MarkovChain]

They did the weapons right (there is a clear balance between 90/95/99 difficulty) but they are having a hard time doing the gear right. For all we know the rewards could be there : the augments could be worth it. It would be interesting if the devs could show us a list or a range of possible augments.

[Sparthos]

They did the weapons right (there is a clear balance between 90/95/99 difficulty) but they are having a hard time doing the gear right. For all we know the rewards could be there : the augments could be worth it. It would be interesting if the devs could show us a list or a range of possible augments.

Even if the augments are amazing why the completely arbitrary HQ only rule? This wasn't the case with previous abj sets, the HQs are going to be in the stratosphere with regards to price given the t1 HQ rate and extreme difficulty to reach 110 crafting.

It's like stupid compounded on stupid. Do they not want people to do events?

[MarkovChain]

The NQ abjurations suck so nothing is lost.. I'm guessing, as I explained earlier in the thread, that it's a plot to make HQing "worth it" and to revive crafting.

[Monchat]

so im guessing the HQ abjurations are tier 0 too lol? what a fail event.

[Sparthos]

The NQ abjurations suck so nothing is lost.. I'm guessing, as I explained earlier in the thread, that it's a plot to make HQing "worth it" and to revive crafting.

The plot would have worked better if both NQs and HQs had good augments since it'd lead to people buying up NQs while the super-rich snap up the low amount of HQs that get squeezed out.

There are some pieces that with proper augments could be competitive with standard gear but thanks the HQ only rule will be crap on arrival and complete loss to any crafter.

This is like elementary stupidity from a crafting standpoint.

[Sparthos]

so im guessing the HQ abjurations are tier 0 too lol? what a fail event.

T1 if you have all craft enhancements and furnishings.

Good luck getting 110 when every craft is hundreds of thousands to synth with materials so rare you'll either be farming yourself or buying at the AH's mercy.

[Helel]

I'm recanting my earlier statement. Legion officially blows. The dev team needs to do some serious work on this event to make it even worth attempting.

[Economizer]

The plot would have worked better if both NQs and HQs had good augments since it'd lead to people buying up NQs while the super-rich snap up the low amount of HQs that get squeezed out.

I think a good example would be the WHM RDM BRD SCH shoes - the Paean Boots (NQ, DEF:27 "Cure" potency +1% Enhances "Resist Silence" effect Movement speed +8%) vs the Iaso Boots (HQ, DEF:28 "Cure" potency +4% Enhances "Resist Silence" effect Movement speed +12%).

Movement speed 8% is crap; it is 12%+ or go home. But to compound on this there is a significant cure potency difference between the two. Basically, the NQ is gear that should have been an Abyssea drop because it is so bad (it isn't bad just in comparison, it is actually bad because it doesn't do anything better then gear you could get or augment twenty levels prior). The HQ is actually desirable because while it doesn't do anything better then previous gear for most of the jobs listed, it still is equal to them while combining them into one slot for all of the jobs listed.

Personally, if I was designing these shoes, the NQ would be what the HQ is now, and the HQ would have all those stats, maybe a bit more movement speed (unlikely), maybe a point more of cure potency for 5% (somewhat likely), and they would have auto-refresh on them (definitely). I'm not entirely sure what the new augment system for these new abjurations is, but being able to augment even minor stats on top of the HQ only (which I think is what people are saying is the case), but the NQ has the current stats, I think it would still make the HQ desirable as long as the augments are good, such as something like auto-refresh, Healing Magic skill in sizable amounts, Enhancing Magic in decent amounts, MND/CHR/INT in competitive amounts, Fast Cast, Haste, or some other fairly desirable stat in decent amounts would make the HQ desired enough to fetch a fair price while still making it pure profit for the crafters all the way.

[Monchat]

(HQ, DEF:28 "Cure" potency +4% Enhances "Resist Silence" effect Movement speed +12%).


this item is basically what I'd call crap. it looks good, but its not. cure potency slot? there is so many cure potency items for WHM, the NQ zenith pumps can be augmented with potency +3%, but more impotantly they can be augmented with cure casting time -7%. Nobody wants cure potency on feet, which leaves: movement speed. Gaiters have existed for years now...18% or bust.

[Mahoro]

Iaso Boots are the very definition of a sidegrade with those base stats. The only thing that could push it over would be potential augments. Iaso Mitra (head piece) is much much better.

[Luvbunny]

It's like stupid compounded on stupid. Do they not want people to do events?

I think they are on their last straws and grasping for more now. No new contents coming and they still have over a year to fill in before FF14 will start taking off, or so they hope. Right now we are pretty much strung along with luck based events where the drop rate is ridiculously low and it takes forever to do and 18-36 people to clear. Basically trying to bring back the old FFXI where grinding is the thing. Voidwatch, Neo Nyzul and Legion are all big disappointment to be honest, you stayed for a year hoping that they finally get it, since Abyssea was a great example on how to do content that is "battle oriented" and make the grinding somewhat fun and enjoyable. Alas, no more, welcome to the "barance" style of FFXI. So far their response to Legion has been very timid and they are going in "attacking" mode, pretty much take it or we will give you nothing, they have to "draw the line" somewhere.

[Karbuncle]

Have to admit, I just BG'd the current known drops from Legion.

My god, They're all sh*t tier sh*t. Absolute garbage. I mean like stuff that seriously has little to absolutely no conceivable use outside of being fluff-drops just to fill a drop spot.

[Mahoro]

The known drops yeah. The unknown drops on BG "Legion Rewards" page has the other stuff.

[Mahoro]

I think they are on their last straws and grasping for more now. No new contents coming and they still have over a year to fill in before FF14 will start taking off, or so they hope. Right now we are pretty much strung along with luck based events where the drop rate is ridiculously low and it takes forever to do and 18-36 people to clear. Basically trying to bring back the old FFXI where grinding is the thing. Voidwatch, Neo Nyzul and Legion are all big disappointment to be honest, you stayed for a year hoping that they finally get it, since Abyssea was a great example on how to do content that is "battle oriented" and make the grinding somewhat fun and enjoyable. Alas, no more, welcome to the "barance" style of FFXI. So far their response to Legion has been very timid and they are going in "attacking" mode, pretty much take it or we will give you nothing, they have to "draw the line" somewhere.

Are you related to Runespider perchance?

[Rukkirii]

Greetings!

As a follow-up to our recent Legion posts, we would like to go over the balancing of Legion battles.

To start off, the battle concepts behind the Hall of An, Hall of Ki, Hall of Im, Hall of Muru and Hall of Mul are each designed differently. Also there are differences between the enemies in each Hall, such as some monsters featuring high agility in exchange for lowered HP, some that may coordinate with other monsters or even varying behavior depending on the order in which you defeat them.

With that in mind, the key to conquering Legion is to be aware of these patterns and planning the appropriate tactics to counter them. In other words, making up things as you go along will only get you so far. When you first tackle Legion, it can be challenging to figure out how to advance, but by trying different strategies, players will start to see patterns and trends within each Hall and enemy that you should be able to come up with some good tactics and formation.

Hall of An is designed to be fairly straightforward and it features monsters with high attack, monsters that will use debuffs and monsters that are balanced in between. We suggest that you first challenge Hall of An to get the idea on how to tackle the rest of Legion.

Some players have had trouble finding a "safe spot" in between the first and second waves of enemies. While there is no specific area where it is consider to be 100% safe, there are certain parts of the map that monsters won't wander around. However, even though they don't wander to close to those areas, they can still detect the players depending on the distance. We can adjust and narrow down the range where monsters spawn and wander but if we were to do so, the monsters would be more concentrated and players may end up being attacked by 3 monsters at the same time so there are both pros and cons. But if the range should still be narrowed down, we would like to give some thought to it.

When it comes to the elementals that drop temporary items, they are designed to run from and attacker and to remain in the zone once they have been claimed. Even though they run off, they won't despawn if you have claimed them while they are present. The reason being so that players can defeat them and obtain their items at the perfect time that they need to.

All that said, we'll continue to gather your feedback and comments for the dev. team so please keep them coming!

[Mahoro]

Rukkirii, thank you for your feedback.

In response, I think the overriding issue is that there can be no variance in "planning the appropriate tactics" and "trying different strategies", because Legion in its current form essentially boils down to one strategy: zerg. The 30 minute time limit is too restrictive. Assuming there are 6-7 monsters per chamber, there is no time to carry out any other strategy or tactic when each monster has to be defeated in 4-5 minutes. While the change in monster HP is welcomed, we see no reason that this event cannot be made 45 minutes as Walk of Echoes was.

[MarkovChain]

His post seems to indicate that killing one of the mob first is going to weaken the others.

[Sparthos]

How are people supposed to notice small nuances that may be beneficial to the group if you're worried about the clock all fight? Like Mahoro said, it only promotes zerging, embrava spam and perfect defense strategies which are restrictive by nature.

The timer for an event like Legion should be low enough that it prevents holding up the chamber or promoting zombie tactics but not so low that the event becomes impossible if you happen to wipe. Previous content like "The Wyrmking Descends", Lambton Worm, "Ouryu Cometh" and even HNMs had a 1 hour timer, why not this event?

[Washburn]

cmon guys, the shitty rings are totally worth it...

[saevel]

How are people supposed to notice small nuances that may be beneficial to the group if you're worried about the clock all fight? Like Mahoro said, it only promotes zerging, embrava spam and perfect defense strategies which are restrictive by nature.

The timer for an event like Legion should be low enough that it prevents holding up the chamber or promoting zombie tactics but not so low that the event becomes impossible if you happen to wipe. Previous content like "The Wyrmking Descends", Lambton Worm, "Ouryu Cometh" and even HNMs had a 1 hour timer, why not this event?

Their BSing most of us on purpose. It's designed to be nearly impossible to clear, even for a super buffed super geared group. When there is such a restrictive clock there is only one valid strategy, zerg it until it's dead.

[Helel]

Greetings!

As a follow-up to our recent Legion posts, we would like to go over the balancing of Legion battles.

To start off, the battle concepts behind the Hall of An, Hall of Ki, Hall of Im, Hall of Muru and Hall of Mul are each designed differently. Also there are differences between the enemies in each Hall, such as some monsters featuring high agility in exchange for lowered HP, some that may coordinate with other monsters or even varying behavior depending on the order in which you defeat them.

With that in mind, the key to conquering Legion is to be aware of these patterns and planning the appropriate tactics to counter them. In other words, making up things as you go along will only get you so far. When you first tackle Legion, it can be challenging to figure out how to advance, but by trying different strategies, players will start to see patterns and trends within each Hall and enemy that you should be able to come up with some good tactics and formation.

Hall of An is designed to be fairly straightforward and it features monsters with high attack, monsters that will use debuffs and monsters that are balanced in between. We suggest that you first challenge Hall of An to get the idea on how to tackle the rest of Legion.

Some players have had trouble finding a "safe spot" in between the first and second waves of enemies. While there is no specific area where it is consider to be 100% safe, there are certain parts of the map that monsters won't wander around. However, even though they don't wander to close to those areas, they can still detect the players depending on the distance. We can adjust and narrow down the range where monsters spawn and wander but if we were to do so, the monsters would be more concentrated and players may end up being attacked by 3 monsters at the same time so there are both pros and cons. But if the range should still be narrowed down, we would like to give some thought to it.

When it comes to the elementals that drop temporary items, they are designed to run from and attacker and to stay once they have been claimed. Even though they run off, they won't despawn if you have attacked them while they are present. The reason being so that players can defeat them and obtain their items at the perfect time that they need to.

All that said, we'll continue to gather your feedback and comments for the dev. team so please keep them coming!

Can someone explain to me what the bold section means? All of the legions mobs automatically link anyway... why would changing their spawn location matter in the least?

Additional note: nobody is ever going to get 36 people to go do legion, or if they do, they must be some serious special-ed 36 people for wasting their time. I say this as someone who tried myself many times. The rewards are mediocre; not only this, but you are lotting against 35 other people. You loved your VW loot system so much that you revert back to this?

My point: this content needs to be completable by 18 people or it's pointless and you've wasted your time as well as ours.

[Insaniac]

So a group finally cleared Wave 2 of Ki. Wave 3 was 3 more HNMs. Including a mantis that can death prophet from 100%. If we're supposed to clear mobs in a certain order that gives us 3.3 minutes for each NM. How is that a possibility for things that wipe you instantly without PD up? Can we get more info than "You're doing it wrong"?

[Zerich]

i guess this is SE's response to stuff being too easy

[Babekeke]

When it comes to the elementals that drop temporary items, they are designed to run from and attacker and to stay once they have been claimed. Even though they run off, they won't despawn if you have attacked them while they are present.

I think this is mis-translated slightly? As it doesn't make sense :(

[MarkovChain]

So a group finally cleared Wave 2 of Ki. Wave 3 was 3 more HNMs. Including a mantis that can death prophet from 100%. If we're supposed to clear mobs in a certain order that gives us 3:33 for each NM. How is that a possibility for things that wipe you instantly without PD up? Can we get more info than "You're doing it wrong"?

Perfect defense ? Oh looooooooook.

The dev post is not super clear either that the order matters. Maybe it's some dumb strat like killing at the same time or holding one at low HP etc. Also they advised Hall of An so that means that the strat for other chambers are retarded while this one is simple..

[Dragoy]

Their BSing most of us on purpose. It's designed to be nearly impossible to clear, even for a super buffed super geared group. When there is such a restrictive clock there is only one valid strategy, zerg it until it's dead.
I thought it was designed to be impossible to clear.
Or in other words: “Slay as many foes as possible within the thirty-minute time limit.”

Moreover, perhaps there are “mechanics” in place that prevent a strategy such as “zerging” from succeeding at all. Ha, I guess that would be a new one.



When it comes to the elementals that drop temporary items, they are designed to run from and attacker and to stay once they have been claimed. Even though they run off, they won't despawn if you have attacked them while they are present.I think this is mis-translated slightly? As it doesn't make sense :(The wording might be a bit odd, but I think it means something along the lines: The elementals will flee from player characters, and if not claimed, de-spawn in due time. If they are claimed, however, they will stay still and do not de-spawn (even if they still decide to flee? ¯\_ツ_/¯ ).

Alternatively: The elementals will flee from player characters, and de-spawn in due time if not claimed. They will continue to flee even after being claimed, but will not de-spawn.

May bee. ^^;

[Rukkirii]

If they want people to do the event and have a robust /shout community, I completely agree they should at least put in Heavy Metal/Riftxxx stuff.


While we're not currently looking into adding the suggested items to Legion to increase participation, we are looking at how to increase participation via other methods.

[Helel]

While we're not currently looking into adding the suggested items to Legion to increase participation, we are looking at how to increase participation via other methods.

Step in the right direction at least. I still believe you'll need to get rid of the 36-person requirement for a full clear though. Managing a shout group with 36 people is pretty ridiculous. You guys should know from the test server event. If the devs really really want to keep 36 person requirement then the rewards need to be incredibly good AND easily accessible. The easily accessible part is really important because nobody wants to lot against 35 other people. Direct drops would make things appealing.

Still... it really sucks having to spend 2 hours shouting for people to do this event + whatever time it takes to organize parties. Not to mention you need to hand out pearls if you have two alliances (since you can't just use party chat).

Drop the mobs' HP by 50%.
Get rid of 36-person option, OR at least make it possible to do w/o.
Add some better rewards.

[Luvbunny]

Wow, they are just not getting it.... It's like all these countless feedback and suggestions are not even remotely being considered at all. There are so many fail new contents with dismal drops and not even worth doing, but they choose to steamroll ahead, ignoring feedbacks and just do the minimal "adjustment" so that they look like they hear our pleas. Please learn, repeat your past successes, and stop trying to be "different" in the sake of adding stupid inane difficulties, low drop rates, and crap rewards. There are reasons some contents are favored by your player base and others are avoided at all cost. Your job is not coming up with "new" crap contents, but looking at the ones you just did and make it better, don't just ignore the player base feedback, but please change your attitude, and CHANGE the contents if it is necessary to ensure repeat successes and player's participation. You are creating a game, it should be fun, addictive, enjoyable and NOT a punishing grind. And the sad truth is, as company, SE knows very well how to create fun addictive enjoyable content, they did this many times in the past. And the FFXI teams knows very well how to do this, Abyssea is one recent example, ToAU is another. There is no reasons whatsoever to try to bring back the "old archaic" game play, it is dead for a reason. People will do events if it is rewarding and there is a measured progression - and please don't give us empty promises, where are these Voidwatch tickets?

[Rukkirii]

I think this is mis-translated slightly? As it doesn't make sense :(

Sorry, yes, the above part was a little bit unclear due to our wording, sorry about that. We’ve made a minor edit to make it clearer.

Also, to expand upon the elemental behavior a bit… Currently, their behavior follows the pattern of move, stop, and move again.

However, if we receive feedback that it is difficult to attack them because they move for too long, or that it’s difficult to attack them for non-ranged/magic-using jobs, the below changes might be possible.

1. Increase the frequency of how often the move, stop and move again
2. Increase the length of time that they are stopped

The first would increase opportunities in which the monster is in a vulnerable location, but the number of attacks that can be made each time may be lowered as a result. The second would increase the number of attacks that can be made each time, but also increases the likelihood of the monster staying in a spot that may be undesirable.

We’d love to hear feedback on which type of adjustment players would prefer.

[Helel]

Just give them 1 HP. You can still hold them with a non-damaging spell or something, and then just dia them for items. I really don't think it'll be unbalanced if you do this. As it is right now, it's difficult for a melee party to receive any benefits from the items because the only jobs that are in a position to kill them are RNGs and BLMs. Considering BLMs are never in melee pties, and RNGs usually are not either, the parties that are taking the most damage (the melee parties) can never receive the benefits of fanatic's or fool's powders. By allowing WHMs to kill the elementals, they can then use these items on the melees in their party.

[saevel]

It's like all these countless feedback and suggestions are not even remotely being considered at all.

Their not reading them for the most part. The CR's do their job and all, but the dev's aren't listening to feedback from the English speaking forums. Their reading the JP forums and that's where their getting the idea to do stuff. It's really gotten blatantly obvious lately.

[Alhanelem]

While we're not currently looking into adding the suggested items to Legion to increase participation, we are looking at how to increase participation via other methods.
I understand it, on the basis that legion has nothing to do with voidwatch, though we were mainly trying to think of a desireable resource that (some) people would do anything to get.


Their not reading them for the most part. The CR's do their job and all, but the dev's aren't listening to feedback from the English speaking forums. Their reading the JP forums and that's where their getting the idea to do stuff. It's really gotten blatantly obvious lately. Without disagreeing with you, I'd still say you're being a bit presumptuous here.

[Karbuncle]

Without disagreeing with you, I'd still say you're being a bit presumptuous here.

I think he's being a bit straightforward, But nothing to date has convinced me they even know the Non-JP Forums exist. Can't/Won't Blame the Reps, I know they're doing their jobs.

[Dragoy]

I think it would be nice to have it cleared if there actually is a possibility to clear this content (pun toadally not intended) since some are not quite sure (I may very well be the only one).

It was described as “slay as many foes as possible within the thirty-minute time limit”, yet I see many comments assuming it can actually be cleared.

And no, I don't think conquering means clearing. ^^;



Without disagreeing with you, I'd still say you're being a bit presumptuous here.I think he's being a bit straightforward, But nothing to date has convinced me they even know the Non-JP Forums exist. Can't/Won't Blame the Reps, I know they're doing their jobs.
They are certainly not making use of the Test Server Bugs (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/forums/304) forum, as I reported a bug there 20 or so days before it going live, and nothing was done about it (before after it went live, that is). I don't think they have actually appointed anyone for the job to forward the posts from there, to anywhere... which is a shame.

From these parts of the forum, there are the Community Representatives though, so it's really difficult to see why they would be here at all, unless they actually did read the feed-back with consideration. It's obvious that it is far more easy to just communicate directly with the Japanese community, but since there are translators at work, there should be some reason for them to be doing what they are doing.

All in all, I doubt they are really 'listening to' the Japanese more than they are listening to the non-Japanese community. I'd say it's far more likely they are doing whatever they want to.

But all this is not for this thread, so I'll leave my speculation at that. ^^

[Raksha]

I think it would be nice to have it cleared if there actually is a possibility to clear this content (pun toadally not intended) since some are not quite sure (I may very well be the only one).

It was described as “slay as many foes as possible within the thirty-minute time limit”, yet I see many comments assuming it can actually be cleared.

And no, I don't think conquering means clearing. ^^;


They are certainly not making use of the Test Server Bugs (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/forums/304) forum, as I reported a bug there 20 or so days before it going live, and nothing was done about it (before after it went live, that is). I don't think they have actually appointed anyone for the job to forward the posts from there, to anywhere... which is a shame.

From these parts of the forum, there are the Community Representatives though, so it's really difficult to see why they would be here at all, unless they actually did read the feed-back with consideration. It's obvious that it is far more easy to just communicate directly with the Japanese community, but since there are translators at work, there should be some reason for them to be doing what they are doing.

All in all, I doubt they are really 'listening to' the Japanese more than they are listening to the non-Japanese community. I'd say it's far more likely they are doing whatever they want to.

But all this is not for this thread, so I'll leave my speculation at that. ^^


What was the bug? it could actually be one of the tricks they mentioned.

#givingthemtoomuchcredit

[Dragoy]

Raksha,

Just the issue regarding character movement.
Third thread at the forum top (at the time of writing).


About the elementals... what if they would follow the most previous character to have executed an action towards them? That should be convenient, though I'm unsure if it would be more of an annoyance, heh.

Perhaps 'talk' to them to make them stop/move.
Think of the certain Quasilumin (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Quasilumin).

[Helel]

Or even better, quit designing mobs/content that require fool's/fanatic's drinks.

[saevel]

Or even better, quit designing mobs/content that require fool's/fanatic's drinks.

This sooo much this.

Inside Abyssea we had the HP to survive those kinds of NMs, outside we're looking at ~1600HP average. When the NM's are spamming crazy a$$ 1K+ attacks every 5~10s with a permanent meditate effect, you know there is something seriously wrong with the developers mentality. It's pretty much to the point of zerging everything using fanatics / fools, or PD / Embrava. Look at EVERY "end game" event, they all revolve around using those tactics.

[Mahoro]

This sooo much this.

Inside Abyssea we had the HP to survive those kinds of NMs, outside we're looking at ~1600HP average. When the NM's are spamming crazy a$$ 1K+ attacks every 5~10s with a permanent meditate effect, you know there is something seriously wrong with the developers mentality. It's pretty much to the point of zerging everything using fanatics / fools, or PD / Embrava. Look at EVERY "end game" event, they all revolve around using those tactics.

I was JUST saying this to the other leader of my LS lol. How it's so boring now because every mob we do now involves BRD swaps, fanatics'fools, or PD/Embrava. Just in the last few events alone, I've had to deploy that strategy on Kalasutrax, Arch Diaboloses, and ADL. And we'll be using it again in a couple days to do more Fjalar and in Legion runs once the event is tweaked. It is horribly monotonous.

[saevel]

I was JUST saying this to the other leader of my LS lol. How it's so boring now because every mob we do now involves BRD swaps, fanatics'fools, or PD/Embrava. Just in the last few events alone, I've had to deploy that strategy on Kalasutrax, Arch Diaboloses, and ADL. And we'll be using it again in a couple days to do more Fjalar and in Legion runs once the event is tweaked. It is horribly monotonous.

Its like before people were complaining that Abyssea was "too easy" for hardcore shells / groups. So SE made the crap that is Voidwatch, Legion and Nyzule Isle (embrava locked on rune). The hardcore shells / groups just switched tactics to using PD / Embrava spam with COR / SMN / SCH mules instead of brew / WF spam. Absolutely nothings really changed, once the EGLS / BG crowd finds the weakest point then a strategy will be formulated that results in maximum loot acquisition. All that's happened is the semi-casual crowd, those with jobs and social lives that prohibit 100% devotion to big shells, is permanently locked out of these events.

Case in point is that have all three KI's for the Provenance fight and access to the fight (cleared all T6). Full temps and pretty much everything needed. Yet because I'm not in an EGLS or super vwnm group I'm relegated to ... /sh pugs for progression. Even with social shell-mates we still have to pick up people from /SH and their not always on the right jobs or even competent in those jobs. Earlier VWNM content is such that you can have a couple of duds in your alliance, or be primary composed of average / casual players and still get a clear, it might be messy but you'll get the big "W". Now it's win in 2~5min or wipe, no in-between. Your either all speced out with Super Weapons and hardcore gear / skill, or your gonna wipe.

(Talking about Kalastrax / Reg / Morta / Bismark / Provenance). Although Morta / Bismark is beatable if you don't get unlucky.

[MarkovChain]

Oh look, a testimony from BG



We did Hall of Ki and Im with 5 summoners (two of them were mules). The basic idea was to throw one Perfect Defense per NM on a party of 4 melees under Embrava/songs.
In both halls, the first wave went down under 5 min, we even had to wait PD to wears off between mobs before applying a new one.


Oh noes I'm right AGAIN, where are the idiots that said it wouldn't work. Perfect defense or bust, bring a party of SMN, 5 DD, 1 daurdabla bard and a mage party. I'd go as far as to say that you should bring one brd (or 1 brd and 1 sch), 5 DD and the rest being SMNs. Also just like for ADl (surprise ? no !) the guy mentions Schock squall is awesome, yes it is. an army of SMN can stun lock any NM with no issues.

This will work even for melee strong NMs hopefully (use a magical WS DD and en-spell from a SMN or SCH ?) or flying wyrms (in those chambers bring 6 SMN - 5 DD - 5 RNG).

[Luvbunny]

Its like before people were complaining that Abyssea was "too easy" for hardcore shells / groups. So SE made the crap that is Voidwatch, Legion and Nyzule Isle (embrava locked on rune). The hardcore shells / groups just switched tactics to using PD / Embrava spam with COR / SMN / SCH mules instead of brew / WF spam. Absolutely nothings really changed, once the EGLS / BG crowd finds the weakest point then a strategy will be formulated that results in maximum loot acquisition. All that's happened is the semi-casual crowd, those with jobs and social lives that prohibit 100% devotion to big shells, is permanently locked out of these events.

Unfortunately thats how it goes nowadays. SE fail to learn one word, accessibility. Creating content that purposely locked most of the player base is retarded. And all these hardcore wishing for harder content, get real!!! At the end of the day, the strategy will always require some sort of damage mitigation, one way or another that means bard + summoner + scholar set up. No temp items, then people will get creative, but it always end up the same. Once a strategy has been found, that's what will be used. You can see the example on limit break for lvl 99. Provenance is just a total BS, they need to adjust this really bad. If anything, I hope they learn two words from the last 10 years, fun and accessibility is a must, even if you have to grind. Let's face it, the whole FF franchise is built around "grinding" whether offline or online, it's killing monster over and over to level up. Now that FFXI switched from level grinding to weapon/gears grind, the least they can do is making it fun and accessible.

[Mahoro]

While I bemoan the lack of strategy involved in BRD/SMN/COR/SCH zergs, I guess I don't really see anything wrong with having a few fights in the game that actually require well-geared, coordinated players and a proper selection of jobs? Moreover, since no event in the game requires more than a two-hour investment, and the majority of events require one hour or less, it doesn't really get in the way of jobs and social lives. I have a full-time job as a lawyer, a social life/significant other, and I co-lead an EGLS. It's all about predictable scheduling and having more than one leader to spread the responsibility. The best shells don't have silly attendance requirements either. Gone are the days where people would have to text each other to come online and help camp KB. My LS and I never did that shit and never want to see it come back.

As for Pchan's comment, Shock Squall is indeed a fantastic addition to SMN's repertoire, and we regularly abuse it on ADL. However, I think the more shocking conclusion of your post is that you read BG everyday while simultaneously trashing anyone and everyone who posts there :P

[saevel]

While I bemoan the lack of strategy involved in BRD/SMN/COR/SCH zergs, I guess I don't really see anything wrong with having a few fights in the game that actually require well-geared, coordinated players and a proper selection of jobs? Moreover, since no event in the game requires more than a two-hour investment, and the majority of events require one hour or less, it doesn't really get in the way of jobs and social lives. I have a full-time job as a lawyer, a social life/significant other, and I co-lead an EGLS. It's all about predictable scheduling and having more than one leader to spread the responsibility. The best shells don't have silly attendance requirements either. Gone are the days where people would have to text each other to come online and help camp KB. My LS and I never did that shit and never want to see it come back.

As for Pchan's comment, Shock Squall is indeed a fantastic addition to SMN's repertoire, and we regularly abuse it on ADL. However, I think the more shocking conclusion of your post is that you read BG everyday while simultaneously trashing anyone and everyone who posts there :P

Not diminishing what your saying, but to even be admitted into those EGLS's you need to demonstrate a retarded amount of hours per week for events. Finding time for the events isn't hard, it's being allowed to hang around the "cool kids" that is. This is what abyssea changed the most about the game during it's time. Anyone could acquire some of the best, if not the best gear in the game without needing to deal with the ego's of a dozen+ other members. It might take some time, and the average player would screw up a few things, but it was possible if they were given enough time. Voidwatch was sorta similar, PUG's could be formed by random people and those groups would stand a half decent change at killing the NM's to acquire the loot, eventually.

This all came to a screeching halt with the above mentioned NMs. I PUG of average players has a snowballs chance in hell of defeating Kalastrax, Morta or Bismark, and lets not even start about Providence. Legion is the same, a random group of 18 players, even with the appropriate jobs, stands no chance at farming gear. Neo Nyzule Isle is the same, in the past system you could slowly work your way to a floor 100 runic disk then do /sh and do the boss's for your gear. You might fail a few times but overall you'll get a decent win rate. This new stuff is either 0% chance or your curb stomping it, no in-between.

[Mahoro]

I can't speak to all the EGLSs, but I know for mine and Eminence on Lakshmi, there is no requirement to put in large amounts of hours to get in (at least last time I saw the Emi app page). People may cite their playtime in order to make themselves appear more attractive, but Id rather have a competent player attending once a week rather than an incompetent player who has a toilet next to their computer and lives online lol. Not sure about Green Thumb Tack. I know other shells that are on such decline that they would probably welcome any competent new members.

[Raksha]

Oh look, a testimony from BG



Oh noes I'm right AGAIN, where are the idiots that said it wouldn't work. Perfect defense or bust, bring a party of SMN, 5 DD, 1 daurdabla bard and a mage party. I'd go as far as to say that you should bring one brd (or 1 brd and 1 sch), 5 DD and the rest being SMNs. Also just like for ADl (surprise ? no !) the guy mentions Schock squall is awesome, yes it is. an army of SMN can stun lock any NM with no issues.

This will work even for melee strong NMs hopefully (use a magical WS DD and en-spell from a SMN or SCH ?) or flying wyrms (in those chambers bring 6 SMN - 5 DD - 5 RNG).


You must have missed the part where they didnt clear wave 3.

[MarkovChain]

You must have missed the part where the were lacking 1 smn.

[Alkimi]

PD zerging works for that particular hall due to the mob types but you will need to adopt other strategies to clear the other ones.

[MarkovChain]

Because you magically pulled it out of thin air ? It's clear that the damage you take (aoe etc) is the major issue with those fights. A couple of SMN to stun lock a mob and apply perfect defense sounds like a good start to find the "strategies" the dev have been talking about and that noone can see. The problem is that the moment they announced they would reduce their HP noone was going to try anything seriously.

[Alkimi]

Just saying that it's likely that Hall of Ki (if any) will be the first to be fully cleared since the same tactic appears to work for most of it (PD zerg and stun locking with Shock Squall). Other halls have gimmicks such as charmga, damage absorbtion, resistance to physical damage and immunity to stun which means you will have to change your methods.

Personally I'm with most people and waiting for the HP reduction for the 18-man version before giving it a serious go.

[Raksha]

You must have missed the part where the were lacking 1 smn.


They used 1 PD per mob, 3 waves times 3 mobs is 9 smns.

They only had 5.

So they were short 4 smns.