CHARGE ME MORE $$$

[Washburn]

I'd like to propose an increase in service fees.

The proposal is based on the lack of support FFXI has seen over the past couple of years. Responses on this site are few and far between. The amount of issues with multiple events, jobs, etc. needing fixed/adjusted are happening way too slow. The lack of developer/customer communication is killing the whole experience for a lot of people.

Simply put, raise the price, raise the quality. Everyone wins.

[Kimble]

Best troll attempt i've seen in awhile.

[Bled]

1/10 troll attempt.

[Elexia]

In the end all I can think of was:

Snake.

[Alhanelem]

because raising the price would totally raise the amount of devs working on the game and not in any way decrease the number of people willing to pay the price.

FFXIV got more done when it was free and still gets more done with a lower sub price.

[Vold]

Yes let's pay 100 dollars. That way we can give them 250 million dollars a year and still get the same amount of support because they rather slide down a steep slope created with razor blades than put serious focus on FFXI again. As much as it boils my blood I truly cannot blame them. That's what you get for putting it on a console. Good thing they learned from this critical mistake and kept FFXIV on the PC.

.... ooooooh. Nevermind.

[Babekeke]

FFXIV got more done when it was free and still gets more done with a lower sub price.

Yep, and I wonder where all of our FFXI cash went during that period...

[Kimble]

Yep, and I wonder where all of our FFXI cash went during that period...

When people say this, I wonder if they stop to think that XI was funded off of IX and X sales...

[Dagzy]

When people say this, I wonder if they stop to think that XI was funded off of IX and X sales...

This is only partially right. XI was developed using seed money created from the previous games, certainly. However, those games pay for themselves through sales only (and DLC, more and more, these days). An MMO pays for itself only partially through sales, partially through subscription fees, and then continuing support is paid for solely through subscription fees.

We repaid the investment on the game long ago, we continue to pay every month because we expect to pay for the support that we want. When our *support* money goes into developing another game, instead of using the original seed money from the sales of XI, we are justifiably annoyed.

What makes this such a great crime against us as consumers is that Square made truckloads of gold from the sales of each expansion, followed by an annual "collector's edition", at full-game price. The subsequent releases of $10 mini-expansions with minimal content that people were buying almost strictly for the equipment reward that was unique to each expansion was pretty ugly too.

Argue that we didn't have to buy the stuff; you're right, but that shouldn't devalue the loyalty of those many consumers who chose to be early adopters and have since received a string of new content that was substantially more disappointing than many of the previous patches.

[Elexia]

Yep, and I wonder where all of our FFXI cash went during that period...

You gamers continue to buy DLC, you can't realistically state this is a problem in any way shape or form.

[Rohelius]

Make it free.
There shouldnt be a significant diference in support if they do anyway...

Make a online game store like the korean games if they need money.
They already playing with the idea with the Wakfu game.

[Kimble]

How come XIII and XIII-2 sales aren't used to fund XIV? Or hell, the money they make off of the other FF on PSN? Or any other SE title?

The point is, its all one company. Its to be expected that your money is going to go to many different games, not just the one you are playing.

It has nothing to do with "your XI money going to fund XIV" and more with, XI is fucking 10 years old.

[RAIST]

How come XIII and XIII-2 sales aren't used to fund XIV? Or hell, the money they make off of the other FF on PSN? Or any other SE title?

The point is, its all one company. Its to be expected that your money is going to go to many different games, not just the one you are playing.

It has nothing to do with "your XI money going to fund XIV" and more with, XI is fucking 10 years old.

But that 10 year old game is one of only a few in the franchise still bringing in a steady stream of revenue. As a franchise, the FF series broke 100 Million units sold back in the Summer. Not many of the units sold in the last couple of years were for releases pre FFXI--they were mostly FFXI and forward. Thus, it is still a relevent release in the series.

Also, this game brings in a steady stream of revenue AFTER the initial sale. All they can get off of FF13/13-2 is sideline purchases like game guides and other merchandise tied to those games. Once a consumer buys up what they want/need to play those games, that's it unless they later buy a soundtrack, poster, etc. FFXI easily generates well above $10k USD per server per month for each person actively playing the game (and even those that have gone idle but not cancelled their sub)--whether SE does anything to support those players or not.

Just now, I checked and we have 1424 users online. That could range anywhere from about $9k at 50% being an initial sub to over $18k if it was 100% initial subs--for just one month on just one server. Add in the additional revenue for players not online at this time, mule accounts, any DLC sales, sideline revenues that might get generated in various merchandise as well. This game is still financially relevant to the company, and deserves more attention than it is currently getting.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

When people say this, I wonder if they stop to think that XI was funded off of IX and X sales...This would almost be plausible, except X never had sales.

[hideka]

because raising the price would totally raise the amount of devs working on the game and not in any way decrease the number of people willing to pay the price.

FFXIV got more done when it was free and still gets more done with a lower sub price.

thats because FF11 funds arent being used to fund ff11. they're being used to fund ff14. you really think that the salaries of the devs and the ammount of development we see actualy merits the 40-50k this game makes SE per month?

[hideka]

heres the break down

average subscription is 13 dollars. each server has an average of 2000 active accounts.
thats 26,000 dollars PER server per month.
with 10 servers ( i think thats arround what we have active right now)
we put up 260k
in one year 3.1MILLION DOLLARS.

theres about 10 devs TOPS working for this game, each probably salraied arround 50k/Y. so 500k for development costs. GMs make minimum wage most likely, and theres about 10 of them probably. thats another 200k. the FF Support people probably have another 20 people working for them, making it 400k.

so SE grosses 3.1Million, Net losses to wages are arround 1.1Million, server maintenance probably runs about 300k/ Year.

so where is that other 1.7 million dollars per year going? because its certianly NOT going into developing FF11 further.
my honest to goodness hypothesis is its going to FF14.

[Kimble]

This would almost be plausible, except X never had sales.

The game has sold 6.6 million units worldwide.

Yeah, guess it didnt do well.

[Kimble]

heres the break down

average subscription is 13 dollars. each server has an average of 2000 active accounts.
thats 26,000 dollars PER server per month.
with 10 servers ( i think thats arround what we have active right now)
we put up 260k
in one year 3.1MILLION DOLLARS.

theres about 10 devs TOPS working for this game, each probably salraied arround 50k/Y. so 500k for development costs. GMs make minimum wage most likely, and theres about 10 of them probably. thats another 200k. the FF Support people probably have another 20 people working for them, making it 400k.

so SE grosses 3.1Million, Net losses to wages are arround 1.1Million, server maintenance probably runs about 300k/ Year.

so where is that other 1.7 million dollars per year going? because its certianly NOT going into developing FF11 further.
my honest to goodness hypothesis is its going to FF14.

Yeah, I guess NONE of that money went to develop XIII or XIII-2 or XIII versus, or X HD or any of the other games they have made in the time of XI.

[Zerich]

Make it free.
There shouldnt be a significant diference in support if they do anyway...

Make a online game store like the korean games if they need money.
They already playing with the idea with the Wakfu game.


oh jeeze, the trolls won't go away until we pay the toll...how much you want?
3.50?

[Washburn]

i see 2200 logged on at one time fairly often, i'd say a more accurate number would be around 5000

[Nala]

free? hell no, but we shouldn't have to pay full price either for a half the original dev team size, and this slack ass excuse of an understanding our current one holds over, how the game works, how the game is played, how actual game mechanics work and maybe study some laws of probability while at it it before they decide to continue thier retarded romance with R.N.G.'s

[RAIST]

Yeah, I guess NONE of that money went to develop XIII or XIII-2 or XIII versus, or X HD or any of the other games they have made in the time of XI.

Are you even aware just how big of an operation they are now? They are spread out all over the place. Finallized the buyout of the last division of Eidos just last year I think, and now own the Tomb Raider franchise as well.

They have PLENTY of revenue streams coming in to help fund new projects. This is an ONGOING project that SHOULD be funding itself at this point.

2011 Annual reports (http://www.square-enix.com/eng/ir/library/ar.html)
(just a little light reading for those who care to actual have some idea of what SE has going for it now--kinda puts it all in perspective when you see the bigger picture)

[Prothscar]

Paying $12+ a month for shit updates like the one we're getting today is rather unacceptable imo. Either step up the game or cut our subscription fee.

[Eri]

Paying $12+ a month for shit updates like the one we're getting today is rather unacceptable imo. Either step up the game or cut our subscription fee.


For me Todays update is interesting :D More interesting than the last ones lol
So like don't QQ everyone gets an Update they like... eventually...

[Kimble]

Are you even aware just how big of an operation they are now? They are spread out all over the place. Finallized the buyout of the last division of Eidos just last year I think, and now own the Tomb Raider franchise as well.

They have PLENTY of revenue streams coming in to help fund new projects. This is an ONGOING project that SHOULD be funding itself at this point.

2011 Annual reports (http://www.square-enix.com/eng/ir/library/ar.html)
(just a little light reading for those who care to actual have some idea of what SE has going for it now--kinda puts it all in perspective when you see the bigger picture)

My point is, no matter what people think, the money you spend is going to be used for many different things, so its very short sighted to believe the fees you pay for XI would ONLY go back into XI. I highly doubt they keep it all separate. Its not like they own several different things where that money stays in different areas. IE Sony with TVs, Blu-Rays, Gaming, all those would be separate because they are different things.

[RAIST]

My point is, no matter what people think, the money you spend is going to be used for many different things, so its very short sighted to believe the fees you pay for XI would ONLY go back into XI. I highly doubt they keep it all separate. Its not like they own several different things where that money stays in different areas. IE Sony with TVs, Blu-Rays, Gaming, all those would be separate because they are different things.

And our point is that FFXI is a BIG revenue generator and should be getting more attention. Nearly every <sensible>business will acknowledge that a high revenue generating project deserves to have a considerable amount of it's profits reinvested to maintain/improve that project--whether that is more personnel or upgrading equipment, etc. needed to improve the QoS or efficiency.

Did you even go through any of the financial statements? Over $60 Million USD (over 5 Billion Yen) in recurring revenue.

Would be interesting to see just how much of that is from FFXI subs.

[mattkoko]

you dont need to raise the fees to get better results. in fact, raising the fee would be pointless. more people will quit as soon as they get raised. if they wanted more money, all they need to do is make better content so more people will play the game again. they make better quality game play, they get more people in the game. everyone wins. if the dev wanted to make this game better, they would. or maybe they just dont know how too. but if you look at guild wars and guild wars 2 (soon to come out hopefully), they dont have any monthly payments and they are online games. guild wars did just fine. many people still play it. again proving my point that the dev team doesnt need to charge more. they just need to get their head out of their ass and actually play their own game

[Elexia]

Paying $12+ a month for shit updates like the one we're getting today is rather unacceptable imo. Either step up the game or cut our subscription fee.

Or quit, there's that option too. "Paying $12 a month is unacceptable, make better updates or cut the fees, I'll be damned if I stop paying for something I find unacceptable..YOU FIX IT!"

[Zumi]

Free to play yes please. The update we are getting just aren't worth my $13 a month.

I say let the people who want to buy stuff online store pay the fees. There is enough people who buy weapons and armor, xp boosts ect from a cash shop that they actually make more money then they did with sub fees. It works so well in many other mmos the free to play model

[Elexia]

Free to play yes please. The update we are getting just aren't worth my $13 a month.

I wonder if this is just a 1st world mentality because honestly, if it's not worth your money why aren't you quitting? Serious question. If Charter isn't worth my money I move onto a better cable/internet provider.

[Prothscar]

The ultimate of idiotic, drone mentality white knighting. The customer is more than entitled to demanding service that is appropriate for what they're paying for a product. Paying $12+ per month for absolutely shit updates is absolutely unacceptable, and if you find it acceptable, then either you have more money than you know what to do with and thus do not count in this discussion, or you're a moron.


Stop posting.

[FrankReynolds]

I find it interesting that they said this about FFXIV:


However, instead of giving up and shutting
down, we have renewed the team and are working hard to recover the FINAL FANTASY brand
and rebuild our presence in the MMORPG space. Progress is taking place at an extremely high
rate, and we are enthusiastic about the revival to “top-title” status in the near future.

... Has it occurred to this guy that he's shitting on one FF title while improving the other for a net gain of zero?

[Camiie]

... Has it occurred to this guy that he's shitting on one FF title while improving the other for a net gain of zero?

Whoever wrote that could get a cushy job writing for politicians of any and all political leanings. He's standing in a treatment plant while telling us he's surrounded by chocolate and lemonade.

[hideka]

its kind of sad the only reason i pay my subscription fees is so i can post in the forums.

[Rohelius]

oh jeeze, the trolls won't go away until we pay the toll...how much you want?
3.50?

Explain how that was trolling?

Post asked to get charged more and i disagree and think it should be free already. He posted it online for a damn reason, this is the feedback i gave and everyone has their opinions i suggest you chill and think about the post and not just speak stupid shit like "Troll!!"

The dumbest comment is the one that has no thought process behind it and at this point calling people trolls randomly is more stupid.

[Rezeak]

Didn't SE already do this when they added abyssea adding $10 on my sub every 3 months and i'm SURE they'll release new expansions like that cause why make new content for free when you can make new contant and call it an expansion and make $$ lol

[Vivik]

There are over 277,000 active characters on all servers. Even if only a third are mains they are still bringing in over a million a month.

and I don't know how a missed a whole page of this thread so if someone beat me to it, sorry.:cool:

[Camiie]

Didn't SE already do this when they added abyssea adding $10 on my sub every 3 months and i'm SURE they'll release new expansions like that cause why make new content for free when you can make new contant and call it an expansion and make $$ lol


Yeah, if they need an influx of cash that's what expansions and DLC are for. We get new content and they get us to pay their bills. That's how MMOs usually seem to operate.

[Zerich]

Explain how that was trolling?

Post asked to get charged more and i disagree and think it should be free already. He posted it online for a damn reason, this is the feedback i gave and everyone has their opinions i suggest you chill and think about the post and not just speak stupid shit like "Troll!!"

The dumbest comment is the one that has no thought process behind it and at this point calling people trolls randomly is more stupid.


In the true style of a necro-bump. Wutwut!

[Rohelius]

In the true style of a necro-bump. Wutwut!

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4f7a8da289118b4347000043.jpg

[Alhanelem]

its kind of sad the only reason i pay my subscription fees is so i can post in the forums.
Except you probably don't need to do that. I was able to post while my subscription was lapsed for a week.