[dev1102] Meteor had better be obtainable!

[Babekeke]

So it seems that changes to both spirits, and wyverns have been put on hold because of Meteor.
If it turns out that Meteor is then only obtainable as a 0.0000001% drop from final VW chapter, I'm sure I won't be the only person feeling somewhat annoyed, and I hope that the dev team will realise that they've been wasting their time making sure that a spell that 6 people can cast will work properly, if it takes a month to see 6 people that can cast it that are even on the same server!

Maybe I'm just being pessamistic, but we can only go on past performances. :(

[Daniel_Hatcher]

everything in the game is obtainable...

[Babekeke]

everything in the game is obtainable...

Sorry, I thought it was obvious what I meant, but I'll make it more obvious for the likes of young Mr Hatcher.

By obtainable, I'm talking current 96-99 scrolls obtainable, not augmented lv 99 r/m/e obtainable. SE have said similar statements regarding the obtainability of the arise scroll and the aug 99 r/m/e, so let's not make Meteor another.

[Arcon]

I don't mind it being a quest, mission or drop that's hard to do, so long as it's not a Coruscanti rare grind.

[Babekeke]

I don't mind it being a quest, mission or drop that's hard to do, so long as it's not a Coruscanti rare grind.

Exactly. TBH I wouldn't mind if they added an entire whole new add-on to which this was a choice of rewards at the end (that you can redo the final battle to obtain all other rewards, avatar fight style), as long as it's not just in the game as a retention incentive.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Sorry, I thought it was obvious what I meant, but I'll make it more obvious for the likes of young Mr Hatcher.

By obtainable, I'm talking current 96-99 scrolls obtainable, not augmented lv 99 r/m/e obtainable. SE have said similar statements regarding the obtainability of the arise scroll and the aug 99 r/m/e, so let's not make Meteor another.

So you want BLM's trademark spell as obtainable as all the other spells..... right!?

Then you woke up, come on BCNM Vs. the 3 tarutaru's for a 0.5% drop rate. :)

[Camiie]

I wish they'd listen to the OP, but I know they won't. They're going to set the drop rate preposterously low and put it in the hardest place to reach on the hardest mob to kill as a substitute for actual content. By the time the unlucky among us obtain it what will there be to use it on? The same NMs you had to plow through a hundred+ times to get the scroll in the first place? Some now trivial NM from 5, 6, or 7 years ago?

[Zumi]

It will be obtainable you know form VW 1% drop rate.

[Duelle]

It will be obtainable you know form VW 1% drop rate.And it'll go to people who don't even have BLM levelled.

[Siiri]

And it'll go to people who don't even have BLM levelled.

And it will be rare/ex so people who get it in voidwatch cannot sell or trade it.

[SpankWustler]

And it will be rare/ex so people who get it in voidwatch cannot sell or trade it.

And the scroll will be covered in spiders.

This is hard to portray in-game, therefor the Development Bros will carefully monitor recipients of Meteor scrolls so as to mail decorative pieces of paper covered in hungry, angry Huntsman Spiders to the correct individuals.

[Babekeke]

So you want BLM's trademark spell as obtainable as all the other spells..... right!?

Then you woke up, come on BCNM Vs. the 3 tarutaru's for a 0.5% drop rate. :)

You're clearly missing the point completely, fella.

If this scroll was going to be so hard to get that only 6 people on every server actually managed to get it, then that would be fine by me to be honest. It's the UBER signature spell for BLM only so it shouldn't be something that every leechedinabyssea BLM mule should have.

The point is, that the dev team have spent most of their time perfecting this spell so that it won't be overpowered, can't be used by 18 BLMs all at once to insta-kill stuff etc. Meanwhile putting aside updates for DRG and SMN (and maybe others that we haven't been told about yet - there's still a lot more on the SE wish list for jobs that hasn't been released).

If it was going to be rare as hell to get, they could have just released it as overpowered, knowing full well that by the time the next update came out, they could still have time to fix it, because no group would have managed to find more than 6 BLMs with Meteor with which to utilise it's over-poweredness.

[Lokithor]

I would like to see the spell be a reward that is tied to real CONTENT and not an absurd random number generator. Many of the most important magics in the game have been rewards for quests (avatars, several NIN scrolls, Sleepga II, Teleports, etc). It would be great to have Meteor use that model again after so many years of absence.

A good setting for a Meteor quest might revolve around characters in Windurst's Orastery, searching for magics lost with the destruction of Tavnazia during the Crystal war and might require moving between past and present, etc.

Edit: And just to annoy some people (not me lol), make completion of WOTG mission line a prerequisite!

SE can do a really good job at constructing interesting stories and characters. It would be nice to have that again on a complex quest instead of the repetitive crap and random number generator mechanics we get today.

[Camiie]

So you want BLM's trademark spell as obtainable as all the other spells..... right!?

Then you woke up, come on BCNM Vs. the 3 tarutaru's for a 0.5% drop rate. :)


So you want it to subject yourself to some masochistic experience for a spell? If wiki is any indication at all even the formerly highly desired Kraken Club has a better drop rate than that and it used to be flat out broken in some cases. From what I've seen on here it doesn't sound like Meteor will be all that game breaking.

Oh well, I guess one person's pointless torture is another person's fun and games.

[Elexia]

everything in the game is obtainable...

"NOT EVERY WHM WILL HAVE ARISE UFUFUFUFU."

[Daniel_Hatcher]

"NOT EVERY WHM WILL HAVE ARISE UFUFUFUFU."

Nor do they all have Raise III, point?

Obtainable != Everyone can get it with ease


So you want it to subject yourself to some masochistic experience for a spell? If wiki is any indication at all even the formerly highly desired Kraken Club has a better drop rate than that and it used to be flat out broken in some cases. From what I've seen on here it doesn't sound like Meteor will be all that game breaking.

Oh well, I guess one person's pointless torture is another person's fun and games.

I don't want it to be obtainable by everyone and their mules too, why should it be.

Hard to obtain doesn't necassarily mean stupid drop rates, though admittedly that is lazy SE's current route.

[Camiie]

I don't want it to be obtainable by everyone and their mules too, why should it be.

Because it's just a spell. I say hand the spells out like they do Job Abilities. Let the challenge lie in gearing properly and using the spells to their fullest extent. The possession of a spell shouldn't be the measuring stick for your epeen. It's what you do with the spell that should.


Hard to obtain doesn't necassarily mean stupid drop rates, though admittedly that is lazy SE's current route.

Unfortunately it's the only way SE knows how to control who gets what, and even then the people you don't want to get it will still luck into it or merc it.

[Fupafighter]

And it'll go to people who don't even have BLM levelled.

If it's not rare/ex, who cares lol.

[Elexia]

Nor do they all have Raise III, point?

Obtainable != Everyone can get it with ease


Obtainable = The ability to get it in general, not blatantly designed to exclude a large playerbase from gaining it.

Raise III = Obtainable very easily by very easy NMs.

Arise = Specifically designed that IN THEIR WORDS, not every WHM will have it due to the difficulty of gaining it. (What makes it difficult is to be determined.)

Raise III and not everyone having it = No one wanting or needing to fight Kirin or WHM Quadav "HNM", this is why not everyone has it, with Abyssea Raise III is almost near useless.

[Tile]

I miss getting Spells from Quests, like Warp, Drain, Sleepga II, every Teleport, etc. i wish it was going to be a Quests. but 90% chance its VWNM from the final bosses

[Ritsuka]

And it'll go to people who don't even have BLM levelled.

you mean it go to someone who doesn't know how to use blm. By now who doesn't have black mage leveled? (X.X)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Obtainable = The ability to get it in general, not blatantly designed to exclude a large playerbase from gaining it.

Raise III = Obtainable very easily by very easy NMs.

Arise = Specifically designed that IN THEIR WORDS, not every WHM will have it due to the difficulty of gaining it. (What makes it difficult is to be determined.)

Raise III and not everyone having it = No one wanting or needing to fight Kirin or WHM Quadav "HNM", this is why not everyone has it, with Abyssea Raise III is almost near useless.

Obtainable = To succeed in gaining possession of as the result of planning or endeavor; acquire.

The word does NOT mean that the majority can get it, simply that it can be obtained. Difficulty is irrelevant, if 1 person out of 1 million can get it then it is obtainable.

It's no wonder English posts get translated so badly to English.

[Camiie]

Obtainable = To succeed in gaining possession of as the result of planning or endeavor; acquire.

Ok fine, Mr. Word Parser. I would like for it to be realistically obtainable by whoever wants to use it. A challenge? That's fine. Time consuming? No problem. Tucked away where only a tiny fraction will ever even have the slimmest of chances of it dropping? No thanks. Find some other way to make yourself a special snowflake.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Ok fine, Mr. Word Parser. I would like for it to be realistically obtainable by whoever wants to use it. A challenge? That's fine. Time consuming? No problem. Tucked away where only a tiny fraction will ever even have the slimmest of chances of it dropping? No thanks. Find some other way to make yourself a special snowflake.

Clarity is a nice thing to have, especially when it is potentially being translated to Japanese, or any other language.

[Salvation]

Clarity is a nice thing to have, especially when it is potentially being translated to Japanese, or any other language.

Yeah, because up to this point players have been so unclear about the disappointment with how the latest round of spells were acquired....
It's fine if they want to make spells more difficult to obtain or left entirely to the devices of the playerbase to distribute based solely upon supply and demand; just make it so other jobs have to obtain their job abilities via a sellable drop as well.

[Vold]

My bold predictions:

1)Arise, Meteor, eventually Massacre Elegy, and Cat Sith summon - possibly more to be added later for RDM and SCH - will be new "relic scrolls" as the magic counterpart to relic weapons with the idea of few people having access to them.

2)Final VW boss will be flippin impossible without 6 SMNs rotating Perfect Defense for zerg. Even then you will lose at least 50% of the time due to a random deathga type move that kills you deader than hell. Said boss will drop 1 item that goes towards the magian trials for relic spells/song/summon and will cost a shitzillion gil to complete. Because why bother with quests when you can just Magianfy it.

3)Also said mega finale boss will be set up so that it cannot be spammed endlessly. For example: Shinny boy. Requirements to purchase KI to battle mega finale boss: 100,000 cruor.

4)Inevitably have 0.0001% of the population proclaim how easy it is and dive head first into the new time sink because making a shitbillion gil and spending it faster than you can make it is very very fun. It's not like you have anything else to buy anyways.

5)SE announces that they will not change things because 3 people are already working on the scrolls after seeing what the trials entails via the TEST SERVER.

Because this ain't your sissy assed WoW or Aion or EQ or EQ2 or STO or SWTOR or DC universe or LotR. This is FFXI. And it's your second job.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yeah, because up to this point players have been so unclear about the disappointment with how the latest round of spells were acquired....
It's fine if they want to make spells more difficult to obtain or left entirely to the devices of the playerbase to distribute based solely upon supply and demand; just make it so other jobs have to obtain their job abilities via a sellable drop as well.

You want mages to pay even more money for the JA's.... I see!

[Babekeke]

Obtainable != Everyone can get it with ease

Contradicts vvv


Obtainable = To succeed in gaining possession of as the result of planning or endeavor; acquire.

The word does NOT mean that the majority can get it, simply that it can be obtained. Difficulty is irrelevant, if 1 person out of 1 million can get it then it is obtainable.

It's no wonder English posts get translated so badly to English.

And since we're having an English lesson:


You want mages to pay even more money for the JA's.... I see!

plurals do not need an apostraphe.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Contradicts vvv

It really doesn't.

[Arcon]

Contradicts vvv

No.


plurals do not need an apostraphe.

Technically it's not wrong either when it's an abbreviation, though, which annoys me, because it should be.

[Arbole]

http://www.smosh.com/smosh-pit/articles/18-types-of-internet-trolls #2

[Babekeke]

Obtainable != Everyone can get it with ease


Contradicts vvv


The word does NOT mean that the majority can get it


It really doesn't.

We obviously speak 2 different variants of English then because, to me, those 2 sentences contradict each other perfectly.

[SpankWustler]

I think "reasonably attainable" would be a better descriptor in this case, as the extremely literal meaning of "obtainable" is much closer to "this thing does in fact exist and somebody can eventually get it somehow" than "somebody can get this without gambling his or her left arm and eyeball for it".

Really though, is it that hard to figure out the guy means "obtainable within reason"?

Personally, I'm fine with anything other than Voidwatch Rare Item Drop Rates of Depression for the scrolls. Hard to obtain that's comparable to working in a coal mine is fine by me. "Hard" to obtain that's comparable to playing the lottery over and over is not so fine.

[Komori]

They should give you a shovel item, and the scroll has a chance to be anywhere in Sarutabaruta; there can only be one scroll up at a time, and it's position changes every ten minutes. Equivalent to VW drops?

[hiko]

So you want BLM's trademark spell as obtainable as all the other spells..... right!?

since you need 5other BLM to make it worth using and a 10min ja, yes.

if it was a "normal" spell (not needing a 10min ja to cast and 5-6 blm to do good dmg) doinglot more dmg than other spells it , yes it should be hard to get

[Komori]

So they've gimped Meteor to the point where there's no reason to use it outside of getting five others together?

[Camiie]

So they've gimped Meteor to the point where there's no reason to use it outside of getting five others together?

That's the problem with them bothering to make scrolls so rare. If they plan to make it so rare where every BLM will not be able to obtain it, they have to make it so not every BLM feels as though they have to have it or the outrage will go out of control. Thus it can't be the game breaking spell it probably should be.

Or maybe they don't think about such things at all and just do whatever... I'm tired of trying to rationalize their inconsistent insanity.

[Arcon]

So they've gimped Meteor to the point where there's no reason to use it outside of getting five others together?

Gimped? It's easily heaviest spell in the game, if used correctly. BLMs should strive to get it.

[Komori]

We're at 99 at this point, most monsters have well over 10~80k health, they're obviously going to make it rare or expensive to get, why not let it easily hit big numbers? I admittedly don't do much outside of abyssea.

I'm either on WHM for LS' Limbus runs or working on collecting gear for jobs but I don't like VW, the only real piece I'm striving for is Athos Boots for my BLU and Brego hands for a few other jobs. So I'm not sure about averages with spells outside of lolabyssea, but if Meteor did at least 2~4k more than usual spells, I could be happy with that. It is our "ultimate" spell and it does require a JA and more than likely a grind for it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

We're at 99 at this point, most monsters have well over 10~80k health, they're obviously going to make it rare or expensive to get, why not let it easily hit big numbers? I admittedly don't do much outside of abyssea.

I'm either on WHM for LS' Limbus runs or working on collecting gear for jobs but I don't like VW, the only real piece I'm striving for is Athos Boots for my BLU and Brego hands for a few other jobs. So I'm not sure about averages with spells outside of lolabyssea, but if Meteor did at least 2~4k more than usual spells, I could be happy with that. It is our "ultimate" spell and it does require a JA and more than likely a grind for it.

It does easily hit big numbers the minute you get 2+ BLM's... It's a group spell in this game, always has been. Since the very first day it was released in the opening movie.

[Dazusu]

I don't mind it being a quest, mission or drop that's hard to do, so long as it's not a Coruscanti rare grind.

I hope it drops from Nidhogg at a rate of 0.5%.

[Saiken253]

Gimped? It's easily heaviest spell in the game, if used correctly. BLMs should strive to get it.

from what I've read it's very weak if only 1 BLM is casting it(T4 beats it) and extremely powerful with the amount of BLMs casting it(exponentially almost). So yes, Meteor should be reasonably obtainable, but definitely not something that you can just auto-acquire.

[MarkovChain]

It will come from legion, at least one good thing will come out of that crap. Back to nylulz.

[Lokithor]

So, post update, is there any information yet on how to obtain this spell?

[Zumi]

Looks to come from Legion since all the new VW has been cleared several times with no drops on either meteor or arise.

People are getting beat down very badly even with 36 people on legion.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Maybe it will be the legion points item.

[Kaisha]

Maybe it will be the legion points item.
Nope, all legion point items are rings.

If it's not in the game, my guess is that was supposed to be from Provenance (VW Finale Zone), and due to that getting delayed.....

[Babekeke]

Nope, all legion point items are rings.

If it's not in the game, my guess is that was supposed to be from Provenance (VW Finale Zone), and due to that getting delayed.....

Apparently drops from T3 Zilart and T2 CoP VWs, probably T6 Jeuno and some ToAU too.

People getting carried away with 40-55 mil scrolls in bazaars, but none appeared on the AH yet.

[svengalis]

They probably will make it so hard only a few people get it which makes no sense considering we all pay the same money every month.

[MarkovChain]

You wouldn't play the game if everything was easy to get.

[Zumi]

Apparently drops from T3 Zilart and T2 CoP VWs, probably T6 Jeuno and some ToAU too.

People getting carried away with 40-55 mil scrolls in bazaars, but none appeared on the AH yet.

There hasn't been any screenshot proof of this. People who have the scroll can lie about where they got it from so they can monopolize the market. Pics or it didn't happen.

Still unconfirmed until we actually get some proof.

[Elexia]

You wouldn't play the game if everything was easy to get.

Isn't this why WoW, Rift and SWTOR are successful?

[Camiie]

Isn't this why WoW, Rift and SWTOR are successful?

They strike a decent BALANCE between accessibility, reward/effort, and fun. FFXI pretty much only does that in Abyssea.

[Sparthos]

They strike a decent BALANCE between accessibility, reward/effort, and fun. FFXI pretty much only does that in Abyssea.

BALANCE.

Get that word off these forums.

[Rezeak]

BALANCE.

Get that word off these forums.

SE started it lol

[MarkovChain]

Isn't this why WoW, Rift and SWTOR are successful?

SWTOR is a solo game, it's nice, but just solo. Can't compare it to FFXI. There is no sense of achievement for instance when abtaining gear in swtor, except maybe level 50 but I didn't have the patience to go there. SE can take advice from swtor, but not for it's MMO though. For their non MMMO FF, sure, that would break the linearity of previous games. I did not play the other ones, but at least for swtor I'm sure they completely different concept of what an MMO is. On swtor you go on a planet do random quest solo, and still get gear along the way without having to team up (nearly). Occasionnally you can team up side quests(small number of player.. not 36), but really, it's not needed.

[Fredjan]

There hasn't been any screenshot proof of this. People who have the scroll can lie about where they got it from so they can monopolize the market. Pics or it didn't happen.

Still unconfirmed until we actually get some proof.

Same thing is happening with Arise, people are trolling about it coming from Qilin. As far as I'm concerned, those bazaars on FFXIAH are just "listing the scroll" to troll. There are ZERO reported findings of either scroll, anywhere.

In the end, POIDH. These spells are epic (Saw a FFXIAH comment about 95-99 scrolls coming from upper tier VW, that is true, but it's also a general statement, and it's likely that Arise AND Meteor will be different. Qilin isn't upper tier VW, it's level 95 content), coming from VW in the current situation...yeah, I don't think so. My gil's on Legion or the final VW chapter (lol if that ends up being the case, considering it's not even out yet...).

[Tamoa]

(Saw a FFXIAH comment about 95-99 scrolls coming from upper tier VW, that is true, but it's also a general statement, and it's likely that Arise AND Meteor will be different. Qilin isn't upper tier VW, it's level 95 content

Those scrolls are also possible drops in several HKCNMs (KCNMs too? not sure) as well as vwnms. Meteor and Arise does not drop from Zilart t3s/Jeuno T6s, guaranteed.




People getting carried away with 40-55 mil scrolls in bazaars, but none appeared on the AH yet.

Those FFXIAH bazaars mean nothing, anyone can list anything in their bazaar there, doesn't mean they actually have the item.

[Miera]

I bet it's either going to drop on VW and have like a craptastic drop rate or drops from Pandemonium Warden, either way I smell a pain in the butt coming along.

[Fredjan]

Those scrolls are also possible drops in several HKCNMs (KCNMs too? not sure) as well as vwnms. Meteor and Arise does not drop from Zilart t3s/Jeuno T6s, guaranteed.

Oh I agree.

Not to mention WoE flues 12-15 for 96+ scrolls and the other ones are obtainable from earlier fluxes. I'm not sure about fluxes 1-7, but I know 8-11 dropped 90-95 scrolls.

If Meteor/Arise had similar "obtainment", there'd be scrolls on the AH already, even if there's been no sales. There wasn't a ton of level 96-99 magic, but I know it was obtainable from Jeuno T4-T6 (and now WoE fluxes 12-15). tl;dr's:
- They don't drop from CoP/ToAU VW. If they do, it's highly unlikely.
- They don't drop from Jeuno T6s.
- They DEFINITELY don't drop from Zilart T3's (Hi level 95 content).
- They most likely do NOT drop in WoE.

The likely options, as I said, are Legion (Hall of Mul, would fit their "extremely difficult to obtain" theme I guess) or Provenance.

[MarkovChain]

Legion because every noob and their sister has been spamming VW since the VU and nobody can kill shit in legion which is why it's not found yet.

[Sparthos]

Legion because every noob and their sister has been spamming VW since the VU and nobody can kill shit in legion which is why it's not found yet.

Or it's in Provenance.

[svengalis]

Unless SE really hates us, meteor will be hard to get at first then a few months later they will make it easy to get.

[Lokithor]

Classic SE to make a spell that should be used by multiple BLM in a party and then making it so impossible to get that you may only have a handful (and so far, zero) with it on the entire server. No other company can troll their own game quite like SE.

[Babekeke]

Classic SE to make a spell that should be used by multiple BLM in a party and then making it so impossible to get that you may only have a handful (and so far, zero) with it on the entire server. No other company can troll their own game quite like SE.

Exactly. Aren't we all glad that they spent so long making sure that this spell wasn't overpowered?!?!

[Rekin]

The whole beat something really difficult to get something that would have been helpful in beating it seems rather redundant. I mean yes obviously it would help ease the content once you've obtained the item/spell but if you managed to grind enough to get the item doesn't it make it sorta moot to have it if you could do well enough with out it? Kinda like in FF12 where you got the Wyrmhero blade.... after killing everything that it would have been useful against. Well at least here we can use it to speed up grinding for items.

[Haruhigumi]

everything in the game is obtainable...

You mean like how [dev1103] has the following in it?

"An issue wherein the item "Gardyloo Trousers" was unobtainable."

:P So somethings are unobtainable... least until a fix.

[Zumi]

There have been reports of it dropping from from Provenance Watcher

[Elexia]

Or it's in Provenance.

Correct. This is why SE said not everyone will have x or x, because not everyone has the luck nor Jeuno tier clears (specially if you missed the VW watch rush, gl.)

[Mahoro]

What "rush" for Jeuno tier clears is that? It was my understanding that each mob was the subject of /shout groups and LS runs for the better part of the last year. I saw like 6 separate shouts on Lakshmi alone in the last 2 days. ;;

Anyhoo, Meteor is a confirmed direct drop off Provenance Watcher (unclear whether Trove drop too), so at least people have even more incentive to get their CS's.

[Tamoa]

Drops from Provenance, screenshot here: http://blog-imgs-26-origin.fc2.com/n/e/j/nejisoku/20120404164313_323_1.jpg

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Drops from Provenance, screenshot here: http://blog-imgs-26-origin.fc2.com/n/e/j/nejisoku/20120404164313_323_1.jpg

Not a problem then, like Shinryu that areas a basic joke.

[Alkimi]

The fight itself doesn't look overly difficult, particular with staggers eventually weakening his magic attack to the point where Meteor is doing 200 damage. It's just a 5 minute zerg and since it's not 'spammable' like other voidwatch you can go all out with SV songs/Embrava etc.

What will limit the supply of scrolls is that it isn't spammable (need to either clear the other 3 Caturae areas for KIs or spend 990k cruor per person to access) and for now probably less than 10% of people actually have access to the zone itself.

[Elexia]

So Meteor and Arise "very difficult to obtain" comes down to:

Step 1. Waste your time in Voidwatch (for most people, it's a waste of time given all the logs and gems you get.)

Step 2. Enter this battle, given your pertifact stock.

Step 3: Beat Watcher, pray for drops.

Step 4: Outlot 17 other people.

Step 5: Repeats Step 1-4 ad infinium

Step 6: ...

Step 7: Wonder what you've done with your life...err proft.

[Asymptotic]

They can apparently drop from chests too, according to the JPs that beat it the other day we talked to.

haven't seen direct confirmation yet though.

[Mahoro]

So Meteor and Arise "very difficult to obtain" comes down to:

Step 1. Waste your time in Voidwatch (for most people, it's a waste of time given all the logs and gems you get.)

Step 2. Enter this battle, given your pertifact stock.

Step 3: Beat Watcher, pray for drops.

Step 4: Outlot 17 other people.

Step 5: Repeats Step 1-4 ad infinium

Step 6: ...

Step 7: Wonder what you've done with your life...err proft.

Or the following:

Step 1. Waste your time in Voidwatch (for most people, it's a waste of time given all the logs and gems you get.)

Step 2. Enter this battle with your LS, given your petrifact stock.

Step 3: Beat Watcher, pray for drops.

Step 4: Spend DKP, lot scroll instantly.

Step 5: Profit

But ya, seems like SE gave an option, if you can get Meteor from chest ^^ This is how I wish VW was from the beginning, option for shared pool OR individual chest. That would have rewarded LS's and PUGs.

[Zumi]

Finally cleared all the needed voidwatch for Provenance access and it looks like mostly JPs in here.

http://i.imgur.com/pGiyD.jpg

So good luck if you want the scrolls. Haven't seen a English shout for this yet.

[Elexia]

Finally cleared all the needed voidwatch for Provenance access and it looks like mostly JPs in here.

http://i.imgur.com/pGiyD.jpg

So good luck if you want the scrolls. Haven't seen a English shout for this yet.

Seen a bunch on lakshimi (in english), but unlike the Japanese in my experience, NA players are extremely cliqueish when it comes to this stuff and would rarely shout unless they get absolutely desperate.

[Tile]

I got Access same day it was added since I cared about getting Clears. I've done the 3 Cat fights those were very fun. I like how they can Drop Abj. so that along with the new Thf proc good reason to bring a Thf, for proc and TH up some new items

[Helel]

Seen a bunch on lakshimi (in english), but unlike the Japanese in my experience, NA players are extremely cliqueish when it comes to this stuff and would rarely shout unless they get absolutely desperate.

Hope you're joking and I'm missing the sarcasm.

[Alpheus]

I wouldn't say clique-ish but def hard to find a shout for Provenance at least here on Asura. The one time i did happen to go was a rather pleasant run didn't get the dragon win but got 2/3 of the new KIs from the cat BCNMs

(the temp KIs and atmacites i should say still need the stone regen KI tho ; ; )

[Elexia]

Hope you're joking and I'm missing the sarcasm.

Considering my playtime is 11pm - 4am and I play with the Japanese mostly, did you miss the "in my experience"? No sarcasm here, I've seen more cliquish behavior from NA players than I have from Japanese players when it comes to these kind of events, even to the point they'll kick out people that helped them get their shit done for someone in their shell (that didn't even have progress done) just because it's a shell mate, this could be a server specific thing.

That's why you don't ignore what someone writes, but then again, since I can actually speak and understand Japanese that helps participating with them. So unless you were trying to say Americans are a lot more welcoming then I'm confused why you'd think it was sarcasm because in all my MMO experience and online gaming experience, I've yet to see how the JP are cliquish..unless you confuse the fact you probably refuse to learn Japanese to communicate with them as them being the ones at fault?

[Economizer]

I've yet to see how the JP are cliquish..unless you confuse the fact you probably refuse to learn Japanese to communicate with them as them being the ones at fault?

I can only base my judgements based on shouts, past experience, and a bit of a call based on how much of a language you actually need to learn to play.

Let us start with some basic observations about communication in the context of FFXI. First, the entire game uses roman letters for certain things, such as the three letter job codes. Second, certain players continue this with lettered slang which is standardized across servers and easy to understand (brb, SATA, VW, and to a lesser extent HV/NV for VW procs). Third, certain players will use auto-translate whenever the previous standards are not adequate. Fourth, roman lettering is not only standard amount the UI and 3/4 of the official languages the game supports, but only Japanese players can actually enter in Japanese characters. Last, it is far easier to plug in a phrase to an automatic translator to gain some context when it is in a character set you can actually type (roman letters are universally able to be typed for every player).

As above we see that players can speak in a way that even if they patch in the occasional word from their own language that is foreign to them, no matter what language they speak. Thus I can only assume that players unwilling to use these easy communication standards are doing so in a manner to be "cliquish" against people who don't speak their own language.

Based on shouts on my server, you can go to anywhere in Jeuno and listen to shouts and yells that have excessive usage of the three letter codes and auto-translate, the occasional English word will get in but for the most part the shouts are made to be as understandable as possible. Go to Aht Urghan where most of the shouts are Japanese and the most you might get is a 8/18 or a VW in the shout so you know the event is VW but that the people shouting don't care enough about getting people to come that they shout in an easy to understand manner. I've seen JP players come to NA shouts before where the JP didn't speak English and it was completely fine, because they were the first person to fill a particular slot (and not because the slot couldn't be filled any other way).

-

Yeah, blah, blah exceptions, you mileage may vary, and your server might suck and all that. But really, no player has to understand anything other then a few abbreviations commonly used by everyone in the game in order to participate, so saying that anyone should learn a new language is obtuse. I don't expect a NA player to learn Japanese and I most certainly don't expect a JP player to learn English; WAR WHM COR PLD mean what they mean and VW means what it means, there isn't really much to be learning. People doing shouts either try to be universally understandable or they don't.

[Asymptotic]

Considering my playtime is 11pm - 4am and I play with the Japanese mostly, did you miss the "in my experience"? No sarcasm here, I've seen more cliquish behavior from NA players than I have from Japanese players when it comes to these kind of events, even to the point they'll kick out people that helped them get their shit done for someone in their shell (that didn't even have progress done) just because it's a shell mate, this could be a server specific thing.

That's why you don't ignore what someone writes, but then again, since I can actually speak and understand Japanese that helps participating with them. So unless you were trying to say Americans are a lot more welcoming then I'm confused why you'd think it was sarcasm because in all my MMO experience and online gaming experience, I've yet to see how the JP are cliquish..unless you confuse the fact you probably refuse to learn Japanese to communicate with them as them being the ones at fault?

I speak Japanese and party with them frequently. It's much more common for a NA party to let JP players in who don't speak English than it is for a NA player to be accepted to a JP party, regardless of language status. If you don't realize this, than you're living in a sheltered world.

[Babekeke]

I speak Japanese and party with them frequently. It's much more common for a NA party to let JP players in who don't speak English than it is for a NA player to be accepted to a JP party, regardless of language status. If you don't realize this, than you're living in a sheltered world.

Except that most JP players speak a lot more English than most English players speak JP.

Average English speaking player knows 'hai', 'w' and 'arigatou'.
Average JP player knows most basic words, even if the spelling is all over the place.

[Imakun]

Except that most JP players speak a lot more English than most English players speak JP.

Average English speaking player knows 'hai', 'w' and 'arigatou'.
Average JP player knows most basic words, even if the spelling is all over the place.

Yet they refuse to use English 90% of time, unless they play out of JP prime time and need to join my shout.
I'm sorry but this is what I got from playing 6 years now. I ALWAYS use auto-translator when shouting or asking another party something, and this is the common practice for almost everyone except japanese players.
From most of them I either get response in full japanese or no reply at all. If I get a reply in japanese, I tell them I can't understand it very well (I do recognize words/kanji) and that's where the conversation usually ends.
No luck in trying with romaji too, even though that's the closest thing to japanese I can type.
Shouts from japanese players are ALWAYS in full japanese, including jobs (each have its own kanji or word like Monk モンク or 召 Summoner).

Basically, unless you can type using japanese character, most of the time you'll get completely ignored.

Still I get the occasional more welcoming player that makes an effort in communicating with me, or that invites me to his party so I can lot the stupid G10 item (THANK YOU) without even replying to my question. Or someone who actually use the AT to tell me something.

Does my server suck? Probabily.
The language barrier between "westerners" and japanese players is big. I just wish more people would try and make an effort, from both sides.

[Duelle]

I speak Japanese and party with them frequently. It's much more common for a NA party to let JP players in who don't speak English than it is for a NA player to be accepted to a JP party, regardless of language status. If you don't realize this, than you're living in a sheltered world.From what I've seen, rather than correct you when you make mistakes, they'll just say "please let's talk in english" and go from there, and several I've run into talk about having translation programs or something. I don't know if it's due to them wanting to be polite or not liking me writing their language incorrectly. As a native spanish speaker, if someone makes a mistake I'll smile and correct them because if you don't get the mistakes corrected you're never gonna learn. At least to me, the Japanese players don't seem to be inclined towards that same courtesy. 0.o;

[Zumi]

The majority of Japanese players are very xenophobic. This is a cultural thing. The reason they shout in all Japanese and rarely use auto translate is because they don't what to play with non Japanese players. They don't want to deal with the language issue for the most part, and for some its a superiority complex. Most people know that the Japanese players were not happy to have to share a server with us. NA players are much more open to inviting JPs and don't really care if they can't understand. Very low chance a JP player would invite you to their party most of the time they just ignore you if you send them a tell.

Occasionally you will have that JP who doesn't mind joining an English shout but thats because they want exp or VW loot or whatever, neither of which take much coordination.

I always thought it was kind of funny how English speaking players almost always use the auto translate when the chances are really slim that they will get a JP player to join their group.

[Midorikaze]

I still think there should be a way for non-Japanese speaking players to type in Japanese characters (hiragana/katakana) to some extent. I am teaching myself Japanese and would like to be able to communicate more efficiently. They are able to type in roman alphabet as well as their own language; it should go both ways. How else are the language barriers going to be broken down? Personally, to me, the auto-translate is horribly inadequate and needs to be updated. :/

[Elexia]

I still think there should be a way for non-Japanese speaking players to type in Japanese characters (hiragana/katakana) to some extent. I am teaching myself Japanese and would like to be able to communicate more efficiently. They are able to type in roman alphabet as well as their own language; it should go both ways. How else are the language barriers going to be broken down? Personally, to me, the auto-translate is horribly inadequate and needs to be updated. :/

SE didn't want to pay the licensing fee for western clients otherwise it would be possible.

[Alhanelem]

Most JP, while being taught english and even use a few words of it in playing video games, are not FLUENT in English. They might know enough for a conversation, but if you're not confident in your ability, you don't use it for risk of offending the other person. I studied French, and I live in an area where a lof of french speaking people visit, but I never actually speak in french, even when the other person doesn't speak english.


First, the entire game uses roman letters for certain things, such as the three letter job codes.The JP client does not use those abbriviations. Though they are well understood, they're not used by the game on the JP client.

[Yugl]

There can only be one meteor-lander!

[Alhanelem]

It's really pretty ridiculous to release a spell that needs to be cast by 5-6 people to be useful, but make the scroll so rare that you've got to have friends in high places to ever round up that many people who actually have the spell to cast it.

[detlef]

JPs will by and large not invite NAs to do VW. Autotranslating weaknesses is too much; I remember the only reason I got into a particular Akvan alliance was because there was a 2nd BRD to handle all the procs. A friend of mine was invited (they must've been desperate for BLU) and I stuck some of the PT chat into google translate and they basically said "oh boy that's BLU is going to be trouble."

I'm completely on board with the notion that JPs very much prefer to deal only with other JPs. And I'm not even hating on it, because communication is a real issue.

Oh, we're talking about Meteor? Yeah, make it drop more.

[Arcon]

JPs will by and large not invite NAs to do VW. Autotranslating weaknesses is too much; I remember the only reason I got into a particular Akvan alliance was because there was a 2nd BRD to handle all the procs. A friend of mine was invited (they must've been desperate for BLU) and I stuck some of the PT chat into google translate and they basically said "oh boy that's BLU is going to be trouble."

{ice}BLU5

you're right, that was absolutely horrendous to type. Clearly that's too much to ask of a Japanese bro.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It really depends. Some of them use auto translate, some will only say procs in kanji.

[Byrth]

There are several problems with implementation here:
1) Most Black Mages will never obtain Meteor, given the current drop rate and source.
2) You need most Black Mages (essentially all the ones you bring to an event) to have Meteor in order for it to be useful.
3a) Most linkshells don't do content that would inspire them to bring enough Black Mages right now to make this spell superior to Thundaja.
3b) It is only useful in Legion.
4) There hasn't been a real reason to have a "good BLM" for the last year+, and most people have spent their time collecting finery for other jobs. Thus your best players are often better off on those other jobs, which means you would have to give meteor to worse players in order for it to ever see any use.

[bungiefanNA]

The JP client does not use those abbriviations. Though they are well understood, they're not used by the game on the JP client.

It does in player search, since the command line uses roman letters (JP players still have to use /ma, etc). On equipment it uses one-character (usually kanji) abbreviations, such as mages having the kanji for red, white, black, or blue. When you use /sea and get the window full of results, the JP client still uses NIN, BRD, etc for player jobs and subjobs.

[Teraniku]

So it seems that changes to both spirits, and wyverns have been put on hold because of Meteor.
If it turns out that Meteor is then only obtainable as a 0.0000001% drop from final VW chapter, I'm sure I won't be the only person feeling somewhat annoyed, and I hope that the dev team will realise that they've been wasting their time making sure that a spell that 6 people can cast will work properly, if it takes a month to see 6 people that can cast it that are even on the same server!

Maybe I'm just being pessamistic, but we can only go on past performances. :(

*cough* Arise *cough*

Probably the same availability imo

[Elexia]

They damn well should have made it a quest. BLM talks to Shantotto of the past somewhere (not like SE cares for consistency anymore), she drops a meteor on you, you're left with a scar, you can now use meteor when you activate Manawell, Elemental Seal or during Manafont.

That would be much better because then it wouldn't be rare for the sake of rare. Sure it's iconic and everything, but it's not worth all of the logs you get in the process.

[Mahoro]

There are several problems with implementation here:
1) Most Black Mages will never obtain Meteor, given the current drop rate and source.
2) You need most Black Mages (essentially all the ones you bring to an event) to have Meteor in order for it to be useful.
3a) Most linkshells don't do content that would inspire them to bring enough Black Mages right now to make this spell superior to Thundaja.
3b) It is only useful in Legion.
4) There hasn't been a real reason to have a "good BLM" for the last year+, and most people have spent their time collecting finery for other jobs. Thus your best players are often better off on those other jobs, which means you would have to give meteor to worse players in order for it to ever see any use.

Don't really agree with #4. BLM remains a standard at most events, and I think your generalization about "most people" is because DD jobs are more popular as a whole. The difference between mediocre BLMs and good BLMs is quite noticeable at something like Provenance Watcher and Kalasutrax and other Naraka. I will leave out the obvious benefit in Legion since you addressed that in 3b (to which I mostly agree although I can think of a few other situations in which it would be useful).

[detlef]

{ice}BLU5

you're right, that was absolutely horrendous to type. Clearly that's too much to ask of a Japanese bro.
I'm not really saying it's hard. But they don't do it unless they absolutely have to (see my example with the BLU).

[Babekeke]

*cough* Arise *cough*

Probably the same availability imo

But when 1 WHM in your LS gets Arise, it's useful.

[Alhanelem]

Hey guess what guys, meteor isn't obtainable. :p

[Sparthos]

Meteor and Arise also drop in Legion according to SE.

Not that anyone is getting past wave 2 anytime soon but the carrot is on the stick.

[Helel]

Don't really agree with #4. BLM remains a standard at most events, and I think your generalization about "most people" is because DD jobs are more popular as a whole. The difference between mediocre BLMs and good BLMs is quite noticeable at something like Provenance Watcher and Kalasutrax and other Naraka. I will leave out the obvious benefit in Legion since you addressed that in 3b (to which I mostly agree although I can think of a few other situations in which it would be useful).

BLM may be standard but gear is completely irrelevant, which is Byrth's point. BLM is only useful for procs. If your BLM is doing "good" damage on kalasutrax and PW (relative to other jobs) then there is something seriously wrong with your alliance.

[Alkimi]

I always do good damage on Voidwatch NMs on BLM. We usually have 2-3 BLMs and assign them different spells, once we hit a HV trigger I'll chain-nuke Thundaja > Thunder V > Burst II > Firaja > Fire V and then go back to looking for triggers.

That's 20k damage in about 20 seconds, hardly irrelevant and there's nothing wrong with our alliances. There's nothing wrong with BLMs adding some extra damage.

[Byrth]

I do the same, but the difference between doing 15k damage and 20k damage isn't worth the time it would take me to make 7 affinity staves. It was a different story when I used to solo things and having the best gear meant the difference between chain 3 and chain 6.

[Mahoro]

BLM may be standard but gear is completely irrelevant, which is Byrth's point. BLM is only useful for procs. If your BLM is doing "good" damage on kalasutrax and PW (relative to other jobs) then there is something seriously wrong with your alliance.

Mentioned Prov Watcher and Naraka for Stun. Appropriate staff, dark magic gear, etc. Didn't mention total dmg.

[Asymptotic]

BLM can stun everything in VW with a NQ thunder staff, capped skill, and AF3+2.

[Byrth]

lol, you don't even need AF3+2. I do BLM to Voidwatch on my V.cloak mule and all it costs me is a little damage.

The difference between a Black Mage that lotted the things that dropped from monsters he was killing anyway and a dedicated Black Mage is Magian Affinity Staves and +2 Relic. I don't know any dedicated Black Mages, but I can look at the gear and tell you the amount of effort it requires to obtain way exceeds its usefulness.

[Mahoro]

I guess it's just different circles. I know a few dedicated BLM's in my LS, and they are usually the ones I can count on more to proc/stun. These are also the ones that will get Meteor first in our shell because they mainlot the job. While total nuke damage in VW may not matter as much when the strategy for most monsters is just proc/zerg, I expect SE to add more content like Legion (perhaps revamped Ein/Limbus) that will reward well-geared BLMs.

[Midorikaze]

SE didn't want to pay the licensing fee for western clients otherwise it would be possible.
This makes me sad, since the divide will continue to exist until something is done about it...I am sure the licensing is affordable with the $$$ SE is making off this game. (Then again, I don't know the cost either so who am I to judge^^) Also my NA client displays kanji and kana perfectly, so an IME should not be that difficult to add. And I have already heard the argument about us potentially abusing their language by getting this ability...Who is to say the opposite does not also happen? Where is the trust and equality, I wonder... :(

Wishful thinking, perhaps. But it would be nice...

[Babekeke]

Finally seen a scroll on the AH on Phoenix... and 2 in bazaars now on the server. Half way to a full party of BLMs!