Voidwatch Final Chapter [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

saevel

03-23-2012, 08:12 PM

I’d like to share some information about the weakness system for the final chapter of Voidwatch.

For battles of the final chapter, the weakness system and loot (items) will be completely separated.

We’ve decided to make it so that the weakness system’s goal is to give an advantage in the battle. With this hopefully it will relieve the stress of having to kill the monster when alignments are capped and forming parties to cover a wide range of weaknesses, all while worrying about the rewards. The battle strategies and party formations will be a bit easier making it so you can still defeat the enemy efficiently even if you don’t exploit a weakness.

Additionally, we will be making adjustments to the weakness effects as well as creating proper balance where there is no need to rely on temporary items.

We’d also like to monitor the final chapter and look into adjusting the weakness system for other Voidwatch chapters as well, so if you could separate the feedback for the final chapter and previous chapters it would be much appreciated.

Will the NM's be able to instantly wipe an entire alliance?

The reason we're spamming procs isn't to cap lights, it's to restore fanatics drinks so we can actually survive to win the fight. Capping lights is easy, hit EV or a HV or two and deal damage. On the NM's that matter, Tier 6 or Pil for example, if you don't have fanatics up you die quickly. Charmga, Deathga, Doomga, Aello's cheap move (silence + amnesia + paralyze + encumbrance muddle + high damage). Katastrax's aoe spam, Aoe spam from Gnaum or Kaggen or Flank Opening from Pil, all examples of monsters that you need to have fanatics or die.

scaevola

03-23-2012, 10:29 PM

FrankReynolds

03-24-2012, 12:33 AM

Highly desired items, in fact, will be separate from all other aspects of the final chapter.

Other aspects will exist normally; highly desired items will be suspended in a realm more akin to nonexistence. Similar to the idea illustrated by Schrödinger's cat, except the cat illustrating this idea would be dead either way and the unknown factor is how bad it smells.

This plays well into the next expansion that they have planned, in which you enter yet another version of abyssea called "Aessyba" through the maws. In this new abyssea, atmas are randomly assigned to players and cannot be selected. Harder NMs will infuse atmas that make you suck more. This will be ok, because defeating NMS will not be necessary. Instead, you will be required to befriend them, and bestow them with sufficient self esteem to let go of their material possessions and embrace their inner beauty. This will be considered a full expansion as it will have 9 old zones re-skinned in different colors, 200+ renamed NMs and the new job class "Evil Genie Developer Bro", a job who's JAs have names that imply something awesome, but when used do something neither you nor you party expected or wanted.

Elgorian

03-24-2012, 01:53 AM

I don't think they're getting rid of or limiting the number of temps you get, this is most likely going back to something they noted changing earlier where Red and Blue would be capped at the start of the fight. This would mean you wouldn't have to rely heavily on procs to cap those lights, meaning you would get less temps if you are not proc'ing.

It doesn't sound like they're stopping us from proc'ing it just won't be needed to cap red/blue, but we'll prolly still want our temps knowing the kind of content Botulus Rex / Ig-alima were.... I honestly don't think they would ever be doable without temps maybe with 18/18 aegis pld on rex? maybe? doubtful still.

If they don't want us to have to spam temps (and I honestly would prefer not to need them) the entire fight.... make content that we don't actually NEED THE TEMPS TO WIN. I hate needing to rely on being immune to damage to win a fight, you'd never see that kinda crap back in Sea, Sky, <insert old endgame here>.

Then abyssea came out... and without temps people didn't know what to do, hell if nothings gonna change just give us some brews for voidwatch! Then we won't need to rely on our other temps. Right? Right???

I'd like to see some content that you don't just get RR spam and Temps thrown at you. I mean WoE is being updated to enter with 5 random temps and you already have auto-RR, I really don't like the zombie strategies.....they aren't really strategies it's more a winning failure.

Babekeke

03-24-2012, 02:19 AM

Wolfandre

03-24-2012, 04:44 AM

Basically, it's now going to be a few whms, and as many empy DDs as you can get hold of. Fill any spare slots with non-empy WARs/CORs/BRDs.

If you proc, great, it gives the WHMs a rest for a minute. If you don't, they'll just keep spamming cures.

At the end of the day, it's still just going to be a spreadsheet of how many times you manage to kill them before you actually get a drop that you want.

This. Looks like I'm going to have to level up and get an empy for WAR or MNK or be one baller WHM or BLM in order to get a spot in this 'final chapter.'

Hell, I was niche coming PUP/SAM or PUP/SCH. I didn't do much, but I covered procs. Now that I don't have that, I can expect to see absolutely none of the new drops from new Voidwatch. Oh wait. Drops in Voidwatch. I didn't see any before this new system.

I revoke my statement. This changes nothing.

Fupafighter

03-24-2012, 01:40 PM

Cool. I have 3 of the main desired jobs haha :D sam mnk cor empies :) this is great news to me lol.

MarkovChain

03-24-2012, 05:29 PM

Ah so they are releasing this for monday's VU ? No problem then, all the items in the test server dats suck. Back to nyzlulz guys.

Camate

03-27-2012, 03:59 AM

Greetings! I have a message from Director Mizuki Ito to share with you regarding the final chapter of Voidwatch :)

Hello. Director Mizuki Ito here.

I apologize for this announcement being right before the version update is implemented.

We have continued to make adjustments up until this morning, but we have decided to push back the implementation of the final chapter of Voidwatch. (The Promathia route as well as the Aht Urhgan route will be implemented as scheduled.)

The main reason for the decision to push this back was to revamp the balance of the final chapter.

Specifically, the separation of weaknesses and rewards and the other points below are being worked on and it is taking time to test and adjust these items.

Addition to weakness effect that cumulatively reduces the enemy’s physical and magical attacks
We are making adjustments so that the level of these effects are such that you do not need to rely on temporary items.
Weakness option revamp
After eliminating abilities and spells learned via merit points as well as further filtering for pet related abilities, we are making adjustments so that every job can perform equally.

The above items are going to be fuel for discussion for adjustments to the existing Voidwatch content, so we would like to pay extra careful attention when making adjustments.

Since this is the final chapter, we feel that the battles should have a feeling of accomplishment and fun as well as really good rewards. Also, not only for the final chapter, but we would like to make the entire Voidwatch content even more enjoyable.

Due to this, please give us a couple more weeks. Once we finish the balance adjustments, we will have a version update for the final chapter of Voidwatch. (We will be sure to announce the date once it is finalized.)

I apologize to everyone who was waiting and looking forward to this. We appreciate your understanding.

Karbuncle

03-27-2012, 04:11 AM

The optimistic in me Reading that gives me hope they're working on ways to make drop rates not suck and relieve my current streak of nearly 0/500 by now.

But the pessimistic 10 year customer in me realizes that hasn't happened in the past and surely won't happen now.

Its good news either way, I actually look forward to hearing more on what they plan to do with Voidwatch to make it more enjoyable.

Edit: Requoting it:

Hello. Director Mizuki Ito here.

I apologize for this announcement being right before the version update is implemented.

We have continued to make adjustments up until this morning, but we have decided to push back the implementation of the final chapter of Voidwatch. (The Promathia route as well as the Aht Urhgan route will be implemented as scheduled.)

The main reason for the decision to push this back was to revamp the balance of the final chapter.

Specifically, the separation of weaknesses and rewards and the other points below are being worked on and it is taking time to test and adjust these items.

Addition to weakness effect that cumulatively reduces the enemy’s physical and magical attacks
We are making adjustments so that the level of these effects are such that you do not need to rely on temporary items.
Weakness option revamp
After eliminating abilities and spells learned via merit points as well as further filtering for pet related abilities, we are making adjustments so that every job can perform equally.

The above items are going to be fuel for discussion for adjustments to the existing Voidwatch content, so we would like to pay extra careful attention when making adjustments.

Since this is the final chapter, we feel that the battles should have a feeling of accomplishment and fun as well as really good rewards. Also, not only for the final chapter, but we would like to make the entire Voidwatch content even more enjoyable.

Due to this, please give us a couple more weeks. Once we finish the balance adjustments, we will have a version update for the final chapter of Voidwatch. (We will be sure to announce the date once it is finalized.)

I apologize to everyone who was waiting and looking forward to this. We appreciate your understanding.

Kalilla

03-27-2012, 04:25 AM

The main reason for the decision to push this back was to revamp the balance of the final chapter...

...Due to this, please give us a couple more weeks. Once we finish the balance adjustments, we will have a version update for the final chapter of Voidwatch. (We will be sure to announce the date once it is finalized.)

revamp the balance...

...balance adjustments

balance...

MarkovChain

03-27-2012, 04:38 AM

Ah good news they said the final path will have really good reward (read : so for no so good rewards). lol.

Daniel_Hatcher

03-27-2012, 04:39 AM

This thread needs a "Balance, I don't think that means what you think it means" meme

Cowardlybabooon

03-27-2012, 05:39 AM

FrankReynolds

03-27-2012, 05:46 AM

This thread needs a "Balance, I don't think that means what you think it means" meme
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17162130.jpg

Karbuncle

03-27-2012, 06:23 AM

Definitely shows they are listening. Just takes time to get it right. Blatantly increased drop rates wouldn't be fun either. The best armor should be hard to get. Especially since the new system will make it sellable in a way.

I'm all for good armor being hard to get, but Voidwatch as is, is noting short of Insane as far as "Rarity" on the body goes. I can personally attest to still not owning a single Voidwatch "body" after a good 450+ Runs, I've stopped counting, The last actual record i can remember was about 408.

Theres nothing hard about Killing a VWNM in 10 seconds and hoping the box happens to load your item, Thats called tedious artificial difficulty. If they want to make items hard to obtain, Make the NM hard, Like Botulus and Ig-Alima were when they first came out, and Botulus Rex is still pretty hard for "average" groups.

Make the NM the hardest part about obtaining the armor, Not the Random Number generator. Thats all we ask. The best way to do this is giving us a challenging but doable fight, and making the armor a decent drop rate.

The big flaw i see with Voidwatch is, R/EX worked when it came in the form of a pool people shared, Because you could divide it amongst who needed it. R/EX in personal Chests with no way to pass them out is a retarded system, I don't think very many other games incorporate this kind of loot system in a Large-Scale event, for good reason, Its dumb. R/EX Armor being distributed strictly person to person with no way to move it does not work.

Items that are obviously more niche, like say, the new "Crystal Staff", are going to be doomed to be tossed 9/10 because a lot of players still have inventory issues, and Staffs aren't a big hitter amongst the community. So making it R/EX is dooming it to be dropped countless times.

SE had noble intentions going into Voidwatch, a System where everyone is rewarded, but it came up a little short in execution.

Maybe, If you open your box, you have the option to destroy it, If you destroy it, You'll get a Claim Slip, If you collect say, 200 Of these, You can turn it in for an item of your choice from that NM. These claim slips would not be EX, and could be traded or sold.

Now we have options. If we can manage to get or buy 200 Claim slips for 1 NM, we can walk away with 1 piece of his Armor. You could change it for different Armors/Items.

Coruscanti could be 300 Tickets, While Lux could only be 50.

It has a wide range of possibilities that would maintain the over all difficulty of the item, But give each person a real tangible goal to obtain and strive for.

I'm living proof that this system is capable of driving away a devoted player. I've been playing this game for pretty much the entire 9 years, through all the ups and downs, and i'm turning off my game because I'm so fed up with the Voidwatch and where this game is going that I can't take it anymore. Theres other reasons, but thats one of the big ones. I just don't have the time anymore in my life to spend countless hours going for 1 item. Worst part is, I dont only need 1 VW Body, I need about 6. So when i get one, I'll still have to go after the other 5.

Then theres legion drops... and more Abjuration armor...

MarkovChain

03-27-2012, 08:33 AM

It's funny b/c when I criticized voidwatch I got you defending it many times haha. The system is fail and this was known from start. Artificial difficulty with the number of people required for procs, bad rewards, bad distribution.

Karbuncle

03-27-2012, 09:03 AM

It's funny b/c when I criticized voidwatch I got you defending it many times haha. The system is fail and this was known from start. Artificial difficulty with the nuber of people required for procs, bad rewards, bad distribution.

That was probably back when i first started voidwatch, bright-eyed and bushy tailed, brand new to the event. You may not, but honestly, People change.

And despite popular internet logic, Peoples Opinion can change as well.

Duelle

03-27-2012, 12:03 PM

•Weakness option revamp
After eliminating abilities and spells learned via merit points as well as further filtering for pet related abilities, we are making adjustments so that every job can perform equally.Erm...huh?

Raksha

03-27-2012, 12:45 PM

Erm...huh?

Sounds like they got rid of those as procs (or are going to).

IE: bio3/dia3 etc.

Komori

03-27-2012, 01:02 PM

It solves the RDMs issue when they mentioned "not being able to land those enfeeble procs". And it probably takes off quite a few of the JA from jobs too.

Neisan_Quetz

03-27-2012, 01:36 PM

Solves the issue of anyone who was still bringing Rdm as well.

Karbuncle

03-27-2012, 04:16 PM

Erm...huh?

Sounds to me like they're removing :San Spells, and RDM spells, and AM II From possible proc list?

Edit: slowpoke.jpg

Calamity

03-27-2012, 07:38 PM

Know what I'd like to see? How about making it so that dark element black magic can't show up as a potential proc on undead type VW's. I can at least tolerate absorb spells on mobs that are only very resistant to dark, but EV Absorb-whatever on a skeleton or Uptala type just makes me die a little inside.

Duelle

03-28-2012, 05:18 AM

Sounds to me like they're removing :San Spells, and RDM spells, and AM II From possible proc list?

Edit: slowpoke.jpgI for some reason read it as them making merit abilities and spells learnable baseline, and making changes to VW accordingly. Guess I had too much wishful thinking yesterday.

Kristal

03-31-2012, 12:20 AM

Sounds to me like they're removing :San Spells, and RDM spells, and AM II From possible proc list?

Edit: slowpoke.jpg

If they remove RDM G2 proc spells.. isn't that the same as removing RDM entirely from the proc system?

Asymptotic

03-31-2012, 02:05 AM

Solves the issue of anyone who was still bringing Rdm as well.

RDM is still useful for being stun slave on Morta!

Camate

03-31-2012, 03:53 AM

Happy Friday everyone! :)

I have quite a bit of information to share regarding adjustments to the weakness system for the final chapter of Voidwatch.

Hello. Director Mizuki Ito here.

For the final chapter of Voidwatch, we are currently revamping the effects of weakness exploitation as well as weakness options. Below I will explain about the plans for each adjustment and specific adjustment content.

Effect of weakness exploitation revamps
Currently, the main objective of exploiting weaknesses has been to gain temporary items, but we would like to improve this and make the actual action of exploiting a weakness elicit an effect that is advantageous in battle (weakening a monster’s attack).The severity of the effect will be larger with the amount of “!” weaknesses hit, with the maximum gains coming from weakness exploits with “!!!!!”.
Weakness option revamps
Based on feedback, we are working on improving this aspect, with focus on those options that are difficult to exploit weaknesses.
Specifically for the current adjustments, we will be revamping the below, focusing on abilities and spells acquired via merit points as well as special abilities of pets.

Removal of abilities/spells acquired via merit points
We will be removing these from the weakness options due to the large effects it is eliciting on restricting the freedom of how players can spend their merit points.
Weakness adjustments related to pet’s special abilities
With the limited number of options available for pets as well as the frequency of use when compared to other jobs, it is more difficult to exploit weaknesses. Therefore, in order to improve this aspect, we will be adjusting this by focusing on refinement.
The below outlines the adjustments for each pet.

Familiars
Consolidated to the special ability “Sheep Charge”(Sheep).
(This was chosen based on pet level, amount of HP, attack power, and jug cost.)
Wyverns
Breath will be removed as an option.
While wyverns will lose the special ability for weakness, dragoon job abilities can be utilized.
Avatars
Consolidated to one option for each avatar.

Carbuncle: Holy Mist
Fenrir: Lunar Bay
Ifrit: Fire IV
Shiva: Blizzard IV
Garuda: Aero IV
Titan: Stone IV
Ramuh: Thunder IV
Leviathan: Water IV
Diabolos: Night Terror

Automaton
Consolidated to the special ability “Armor Shatterer” (Sharpshot frame).
(This was chosen based on the fact that it is possible to attack from long-distance without getting close.)

Adjustments for other job abilities

Replace Bounty Shot with Shadowbind
Replace Modus Veritas with Libra
Addition of Bully to weakness options

※For each option that will be removed, we will be replacing it with a spell or ability for that same job, and we will be doing our best so that ratio in which each job can exploit weakness does not change.
(We will only be reducing the number of options and will make it so that the utility of that job is not reduced.)

In regards to these revamps for the weakness effects and weakness options, based on feedback for the final chapter, we would like to continue making adjustments and ultimately reflect these changes in the previous chapters of Voidwatch.

Finally, in regards to adjustment progress, as long as everything continues to go smoothly, we estimate that we will be able to implement the above content.
By all means, please give us your feedback on these adjustments as well as feedback after implementation.

Karbuncle

03-31-2012, 04:40 AM

I'm just happy Bully will be a proc :( THF's first and only Unique proc.

Sapphire

03-31-2012, 04:49 AM

I'm just happy Bully will be a proc :( THF's first and only Unique proc.

And we'll still be useless. ;_;

Draylo

03-31-2012, 04:55 AM

And we'll still be useless. ;_;

lol yes sadly.

Karbuncle

03-31-2012, 05:11 AM

IDK, Now i don't feel as useless going on THF. I can already parse high amongst the ocean of mediocrity, now i'll have a random use :D

Prothscar

03-31-2012, 06:50 AM

No adjustment on Blue Magic? :c

Helel

03-31-2012, 06:51 AM

IDK, Now i don't feel as useless going on THF. I can already parse high amongst the ocean of mediocrity, now i'll have a random use :D

Why go THF at all though? You're just gimping the rest of the alliance when you could be going a more useful job. Don't get me wrong, I bring THFs every now and then, but it's only to fill a gap if I really can't find anyone else.

Zumi

03-31-2012, 06:53 AM

The problem with bringing jobs like pup, thf ect they don't do as much damage as other and make the fights harder. No matter what you can't have all the procs which is why you have to give some up.

Karbuncle

03-31-2012, 07:05 AM

(I use the word "you" a lot, Its not meaning "YOU" directly, But as a general term for the playerbase, So don't take it personally Helel, None of it is intended as a direct insult to you)

Why go THF at all though? You're just gimping the rest of the alliance when you could be going a more useful job. Don't get me wrong, I bring THFs every now and then, but it's only to fill a gap if I really can't find anyone else.

THF is ultimately useless as a whole, Luckily in voidwatch, Killspeed is never a do or die factor, and I tend to go with people who don't suck, therefor we can afford to bring a THF and not fail like a sack of crap like most of the mediocre groups do. In most occasion, I'm on SMN though, Which i don't mind, Because it has more procs.

If bringing 1 THF in place of say, a WAR, is causing your groups to fail, your groups suck beyond the help of what 1 more WAR would give, and theres no fixing that.

Still that said, Theres a lot of useless jobs in Voidwatch that you could bring a long cause it doesn't much matter. Theres some fights where I won't come THF (Botulus, Bismarck) Because I'm just not going to overcome their ridiculous def and over-all just be a waste of a spot, however, on most Voidwatch, T1-3 Jeuno, Etc, Basically anything pre-99 Cap, Only a moron would worry about Perfecting party spots, when in reality, all you have to do is cover basic procs, and fill the rest of the alliance with filler DD who aren't complete retards.

THF Is really no slouch on DD, Its not going to keep up with a good WAR or SAM, But if its the deciding factor on winning vs losing, I think you should look at the rest of your group and seriously consider why you suck so bad that bringing a THF is going to make you fail a run, and spend less time blaming the THF.

That said, Would like to mention, I own Mandau, and a Mandau THF/WAR will wreck a good chunk of DD Short of Empyrean/Relic WAR/DRG/DRK/SAM (I.E the heavier DDs).

The job is definitely second place, but unless Killspeed is Do or Die, Like in Neo-Nyzul, Its something that shouldn't be considered a Nail-in-the-coffin. Problem with THF is that its a very high-maintenance job. Requires a lot of work to break into the middle of the dd "Pack". So inviting a THF is really a gamble.

Again, on some voidwatch fights, its better to avoid THF.. Botulus, Bismarck, the really high-DEF / Phys Resistant ones, Its a dead job there. But on the lower tier stuff (Again, Really anything pre-99 Cap), only a fool would think THF is going to kill the run.

Kysaiana

03-31-2012, 08:19 AM

As someone who's usually on SMN for VW, I'm reallly glad about the BP adjustment for procs. Nothing is more annoying than having to cycle through six or seven BP for one weakness only to have the avatar die/be slept/stunned/amnesiac/etc before the BP goes off for half of them. Coupled with 45 second BP recast, the mob is usually dead before you ever figure out which BP it was. Now, at least for Chapter four, I'll know which BP to spam endlessly hoping it will go off!

Arcon

03-31-2012, 08:31 AM

I'm just happy Bully will be a proc :( THF's first and only Unique proc.

I don't feel like this is something to be happy about. THF is still useless now, but borderline useless, as it has one unique proc now. All it means is that there's one more proc you won't be able to get, because THF still won't be chosen for VW with just Bully in its arsenal.

Karbuncle

03-31-2012, 09:22 AM

I don't feel like this is something to be happy about. THF is still useless now, but borderline useless, as it has one unique proc now. All it means is that there's one more proc you won't be able to get, because THF still won't be chosen for VW with just Bully in its arsenal.

You'll take a win, No matter how small, When you're as neglected and useless as THF :( - I've long since given up hope of SE ever really improving THF, And in a few days, I won't really care at all.

But I know you'll keep fighting the good fight Arcon :D

Zubis

03-31-2012, 09:57 AM

Speaking as a SMN who dreaded getting Darkness procs, thank you.

Duelle

03-31-2012, 10:06 AM

If bringing 1 THF in place of say, a WAR, is causing your groups to fail, your groups suck beyond the help of what 1 more WAR would give, and there's no fixing that.Considering the design approach, gearing and "high maintenance" as you put it, I don't see how you are pining the blame on something other than the way THF (in this case) is designed. That'd be like me saying a group bringing a melee RDM is wiping because the group sucks and is not fault of RDM's lacking melee model and dependency on buffs.

Maybe it's because I've been in those situations where that one spot makes the difference (not in FFXI, but the worries and outcomes are the same regardless of game), but the concerns are warranted. VW's approach supports DPS races, which carries implications that negatively affect certain jobs.

Tsukino_Kaji

03-31-2012, 10:53 AM

Speaking as a SMN who dreaded getting Darkness procs, thank you.If it's not HQ or EX, it's not worth trying for. lol

Kaisha

03-31-2012, 12:10 PM

No adjustment on Blue Magic? :c
This.

Nothing like wasting half of the fight hanging back waiting on magic cooldown because people keeping calling out hints for spells you just unslotted to slot in other ones that have been called...

SpankWustler

03-31-2012, 12:23 PM

No adjustment on Blue Magic? :c

For every two or three people made happy, at least one person has to remain sad. Blue Magic isn't nearly as bad as trying for a wyvern or jug-pet proc, but making one's self useless (to varying degrees) outside of procs seems way worse than losing a single Category II merit to Blind II or such.

I often think that there is an in-joke specific to the Final Fantasy XI Development Team that is very similar to a well-known joke. The only difference is the title said at the end is "Balance!" rather than "The Aristocrats!"

Registeel

03-31-2012, 02:44 PM

Extremely welcome adjustments. Hopefully less unlucky fights where too many high or extreme procs are problematic ones. However...

No adjustment on Blue Magic? :c
...disappointed with this. I fear all the constant spell swapping us BLUs have been doing will cause our minds to crumble to the beast within. New voidwatch feature: overstrained BLUs turn into Soulflayers and attack the alliance.

Calamity

03-31-2012, 03:20 PM

How about those drain/aspir/absorb type spells on undead? Any response on that? Not being able to get a proc cause you don't have the right job is one thing, but not being able to get a proc cause a mob's immune? I mean come on! Same deal with say, stun. If something's going to be allowed to come up as a proc, it shouldn't be something the mob is immune to.

Arcon

03-31-2012, 03:37 PM

But I know you'll keep fighting the good fight Arcon :D

Oh, fo' church. Just saying this isn't the salvation we've all been hoping for (and secretely still do).

Speaking as a SMN who dreaded getting Darkness procs, thank you.

Indeed, that was quite a painful thing to do, as well as other pet procs (especially wyvern breaths, nothing like a completely random chance to proc, during which time your wyvern will most likely die).

Karbuncle

03-31-2012, 04:05 PM

Considering the design approach, gearing and "high maintenance" as you put it, I don't see how you are pining the blame on something other than the way THF (in this case) is designed.

Hi, You must be new here. let me introduce myself. I'm the one man campaign for "Thief sucks and is a dead job thats completely backseat and worthless to just about every other job".

Nice to meet you.

That'd be like me saying a group bringing a melee RDM is wiping because the group sucks and is not fault of RDM's lacking melee model and dependency on buffs.

I'm going to go with "no", Unless sometime recently THF became a buffer. THF brings nothing to the table that will win or lose a fight. Its neither useful, nor important enough to cause a group to wipe, Like say, Not hasting or curing would. Decent analogy, But not even remotely close.

Maybe it's because I've been in those situations where that one spot makes the difference (not in FFXI, but the worries and outcomes are the same regardless of game), but the concerns are warranted. VW's approach supports DPS races, which carries implications that negatively affect certain jobs.

I'm going to refer you once again to my first sentence. Maybe you ignored everything I said regarding how i feel THF is useless, high maintenance, and very difficult to gear or even properly utilize to even become a half-mediocre DD, but absolutely nothing i said should have given you the Idea that i somehow thought THF should be used in voidwatch.

My point, Which i blame only myself for not making it clear enough, is that a single Thief should never make or break an entire alliance in a Voidwatch event. Theres just absolutely no conceivable reason why it could happen. Unless he did something stupid like, AoE the adds And MPK the group. THF is not a buffer, They're a mediocre DD. If you're losing, Its not just the Thief, The idea is, its all of the mediocre DD you have. Just because it says "WAR99" doesn't mean its dealing damage.

What I was trying to convey was, Replacing a WAR with a THF shouldn't cause you to fail unless the rest of your group is so slacking that extra umph was the win. In which case, You need to re-evaluate your Alliance structure before you point fingures at the THF. The THF is likely a wasted spot, But he would not be the entire problem, and any group worth their oxygen could stand to have a THF in their alliance.

Hopefully, Repeating myself in circles (I know i did), Explained it a little clearer. Sorry!

Transmit

03-31-2012, 05:45 PM

Another voice here for BLU spell changes please! 4 spells, per element, with the delay to setting them is way too much, even if you just reduce it to two spells per elements (and none of these debuff ones!) I think everyone will be much happier. Right now BLU wastes far too much time locked out of their spells.

Helel

03-31-2012, 07:49 PM

Hi, You must be new here. let me introduce myself. I'm the one man campaign for "Thief sucks and is a dead job thats completely backseat and worthless to just about every other job".

Nice to meet you.

I'm going to go with "no", Unless sometime recently THF became a buffer. THF brings nothing to the table that will win or lose a fight. Its neither useful, nor important enough to cause a group to wipe, Like say, Not hasting or curing would. Decent analogy, But not even remotely close.

I'm going to refer you once again to my first sentence. Maybe you didn't read, Or just ignored everything I said regarding how i feel THF is useless, high maintenance, and very difficult to gear or even properly utilize to even become a half-mediocre DD, but absolutely nothing i said should have given you the Idea that i somehow thought THF should be used in voidwatch.

My point, Which i blame only myself for not making it clear enough, is that a single Thief should never make or break an entire alliance in a Voidwatch event. Theres just absolutely no conceivable reason why it could happen. Unless he did something stupid like, AoE the adds And MPK the group. THF is not a buffer, They're a mediocre DD. If you're losing, Its not just the Thief, The idea is, its all of the mediocre DD you have. Just because it says "WAR99" doesn't mean its dealing damage.

What I was trying to convey was, Replacing a WAR with a THF shouldn't cause you to fail unless the rest of your group is so slacking that extra umph was the win. In which case, You need to re-evaluate your Alliance structure before you point fingures at the THF. The THF is likely a wasted spot, But he would not be the entire problem, and any group worth their oxygen could stand to have a THF in their alliance.

Hopefully, Repeating myself in circles (I know i did), Explained it a little clearer. Sorry!

I agree with you, and I have no problems inviting a THF if I'm having trouble finding other people to join. I will always invite another DD job over a THF though, and I honestly hate being biased like that, but a shitty geared SAM can at least do "some" damage, while a shitty THF is probably hitting for 0 and doing absolutely nothing. It sucks, but I'm not willing to take the risk unless I know the THF is good at their job. Same goes for DNC.

Duelle

03-31-2012, 08:08 PM

I'm going to go with "no", Unless sometime recently THF became a buffer. THF brings nothing to the table that will win or lose a fight. Its neither useful, nor important enough to cause a group to wipe, Like say, Not hasting or curing would. Decent analogy, But not even remotely close.Containing my own degree of sarcasm, you don't seem to understand the concept of a DPS race. If there's a DPS race, that means killing the mob ASAP is top priority, which means you need the jobs/classes that yield the most DPS because otherwise something bad happens. Here it's "temps wear off between procs, mob does super damage, everyone dies" (*where applicable). Elsewhere it'd be "mob reaches rage timer, everyone dies". Same difference.

Maybe you didn't read, Or just ignored everything I said regarding how i feel THF is useless, high maintenance, and very difficult to gear or even properly utilize to even become a half-mediocre DD, but absolutely nothing i said should have given you the Idea that i somehow thought THF should be used in voidwatch.So which is it? THF should be fixed and be useful and be brought to events like voidwatch? Or THF be the "wasted" slot that has to be carried (even if its by a little bit) by the rest of the alliance? I may not be a THF main, but I'd be hoping for the former.

Either way, I find it odd that you are outspoken in the uselessness of THF yet don't see any drive to see it corrected. Figured we'd be on the same boat for our respective jobs.

Khajit

04-01-2012, 02:27 AM

Thf has a unique proc now huh? Now i'm as useful as a pld usually is(not very) so I guess that's something.

Karbuncle

04-01-2012, 04:57 AM

Containing my own degree of sarcasm, you don't seem to understand the concept of a DPS race. If there's a DPS race, that means killing the mob ASAP is top priority, which means you need the jobs/classes that yield the most DPS because otherwise something bad happens. Here it's "temps wear off between procs, mob does super damage, everyone dies" (*where applicable). Elsewhere it'd be "mob reaches rage timer, everyone dies". Same difference.
So which is it? THF should be fixed and be useful and be brought to events like voidwatch? Or THF be the "wasted" slot that has to be carried (even if its by a little bit) by the rest of the alliance? I may not be a THF main, but I'd be hoping for the former.

You simply don't seem to grasp the idea of me saying that if About 4000 HP Worth of Damage over the course of the entire fight is causing your group to wipe, the issue doesn't begin with the THF. Voidwatch isn't a "DPS Race" unless you got a hot date and need to finish fast. There hasn't been a single fight I've ever done in voidwatch since its been released where i can even close to running out of time.

Speed is nothing but a luxury in Voidwatch**(Read Spoiler Below), Again, Unless your group sucks, and i redirect you to my original point. If time is such a factor in your fights 1 THF is going to ruin it, You need to re-evaluate your entire alliance before you try to pit the blame on 1 job. Because there should never be a time or situation where a single THF in place of a better DD Should be the determining Factor in winning or losing a battle.

Being caught in a situation where your entire alliance is wiping due to no fanatics and a bad placed TP move should be very rare. if you honestly think the difference between winning and losing in a situation where you run out of Temp items is another WAR, you're grasping for straws to try and maintain this incorrect assumption that 1 THF in an alliance is going to be the harbinger of doom.

In fact, having those Extra Dagger procs would be more beneficial in that situation than another WAR, because that means if Dagger proc came up, Theres that chance you'd be able to hit it. Or now, Bully.

You're wrong here, Theres no easy way to put that. I don't deny THF is a wasted spot, It has no use outside of Dagger procs and Bully, which is small and maybe you've lost the original discussion, but my only argument with you is the idea 1 single THF replacing a WAR/better DD is somehow going to cause a failed run. Which is just absurd to the point I have to assume you're trolling hard.

So which is it? THF should be fixed and be useful and be brought to events like voidwatch? Or THF be the "wasted" slot that has to be carried (even if its by a little bit) by the rest of the alliance? I may not be a THF main, but I'd be hoping for the former.

What? I know Its a Wasted slot in pretty much all new events. Legion its got 1 spot because Treasure Hunter actually matters there. THF Is useless where Treasure Hunter has no lease. Its not that I don't want the job to go somewhere, I've just given up all hope it ever will.

Either way, I find it odd that you are outspoken in the uselessness of THF yet don't see any drive to see it corrected. Figured we'd be on the same boat for our respective jobs.

I had plenty of drive to see it corrected.

for eight years.

For Eight years, Every time Job Adjustments came out, Even though i had MULTIPLE jobs, the only one i cared about was THF. year after year i was disappointed by the sh*t they spewed at the job. It was an uphill battle we were never destined to win.

Theres a time you gotta step back and realize your vision of a job doesn't match Square's vision. This forum is a farce when it comes to job adjustments, Nothing we suggest will ever be implemented. Go to the THF Forums, Half of the THF suggestions will be from me, Theres a THF Compilation thread, by me. I've made countless suggestions in multiple threads.

its ignored, It will never happen. A man has his limits. I love Thief, ITs my favorite job, But i acknowledge its uses and where it fails, and i also Acknowledge SE Feels Treasure Hunter is powerful enough to keep the job from being useful in any other way. They do not want to fix the job, and they will never fix the job, Because in their eyes, it does not need fixing.

I'm just simply giving up on Square Enix ever realizing or Admitting shortcomings of that king of broken jobs. SMN is still crap, RDM is still crap, and those two really are worse off than THF. maybe if RDM and SMN get fixed, my hope for THF will re-awaken, But until then, Wont happen.

Draylo

04-01-2012, 05:38 AM

The jobs that need updating the most atm are THF SMN RDM and maybe DNC in regards to support. IMO!

Karbuncle

04-01-2012, 05:39 AM

I forgot about DNC, I mentioned RDM and SMN, But yah, DNC Really is in need of some help too. I sometimes forget its even a job...

Fredjan

04-01-2012, 05:53 AM

Replacing Modus Veritas with Libra was enough for that to get a "Like" out of me. Just the thought of trying to get Modus to land disgusted me, because I've had many, many times that it never did (working as intended, etc). I flat out refused to ever play Scholar after enough frustration of it (SCH JA weakness these days makes me respond with: "Owell"). Overall, I like the weakness refinement. A job ability that can stagger should NOT whiff or have no effect (Like the part about Bounty Shot being replaced as well, and I'm not even a Rng).

Removing merit stuff is nice too, people shouldn't be forced to have everything just so they're "good" for VW.

Duelle

04-01-2012, 09:03 AM

You're wrong here, Theres no easy way to put that. I don't deny THF is a wasted spot, It has no use outside of Dagger procs and Bully, which is small and maybe you've lost the original discussion, but my only argument with you is the idea 1 single THF replacing a WAR/better DD is somehow going to cause a failed run. Which is just absurd to the point I have to assume you're trolling hard.Believe it or not, I'm not trying to troll you. I'm speaking from my own experiences. As I said, "temps wear, super damage, everyone dies" is not that different from "mob hits rage timer, everyone dies". Either way, I'll drop this now, as the more important point lies in the below quote.

For Eight years, Every time Job Adjustments came out, Even though i had MULTIPLE jobs, the only one i cared about was THF. year after year i was disappointed by the sh*t they spewed at the job. It was an uphill battle we were never destined to win.

There's a time you gotta step back and realize your vision of a job doesn't match Square's vision. This forum is a farce when it comes to job adjustments, Nothing we suggest will ever be implemented. Go to the THF Forums, Half of the THF suggestions will be from me, Theres a THF Compilation thread, by me. I've made countless suggestions in multiple threads.

its ignored, It will never happen. A man has his limits. I love Thief, ITs my favorite job, But i acknowledge its uses and where it fails, and i also Acknowledge SE Feels Treasure Hunter is powerful enough to keep the job from being useful in any other way. They do not want to fix the job, and they will never fix the job, Because in their eyes, it does not need fixing.

I'm just simply giving up on Square Enix ever realizing or Admitting shortcomings of that king of broken jobs. SMN is still crap, RDM is still crap, and those two really are worse off than THF. maybe if RDM and SMN get fixed, my hope for THF will re-awaken, But until then, Wont happen.I guess what separates you and I is the border between reasonable and stubborn. I wouldn't exactly call the forums a sham, though I agree that the developers seem to have returned to their castle in the clouds where us mere mortals cannot tread or reach them. I now understand your frustration, and if I were less stubborn I'd probably would have given up hope too.

Windwhisper

04-02-2012, 11:36 PM

I hope this is not too much to ask for, but while your already making the trigger system for pet jobs easier...

I think im speaking for alot of SMNs here when i humbly request that we want a clear distinguish between Fenrir and Diabolos BP triggers. on "old" VW content it only sais "darkness BP" and with recast of 45 seconds you usually only get 1-3 trys in before the monster dies ( in a good pikcup or LS party) so its especially hard to find the right BP in time. Thanks for the consideration.

Daniel_Hatcher

04-03-2012, 03:15 AM

Kindra

04-03-2012, 03:17 AM

Karbuncle

04-03-2012, 03:23 AM

the spells can be done any job /NIN.

I think Yurin is a proc isn't it? if not, yah, all can be done /NIN, But it'd be a b*tch and a half to land the Debuffs XD.

I think they removed Merit spells for the reason that they weren't very fair in the first place. I know a few jobs lose exclusiveness with it, but I merited 5/5 N.T.E and 5/5 Hyoton back in the day, I planned on keeping them.

RDM is hit the hardest i think. But RDM is already dead, So its like they're just kicking the body now.

Daniel_Hatcher

04-03-2012, 03:25 AM

So I notice that no one is talking about the merit spells & abilities. RDM & NIN will take a big hit with this. Especially RDM.

While NIN will still have Katana procs, the spells can be done any job /NIN.

RDM is losing the T2 enfeebs. While they have a better shot at landing them these spells can still be done by other mages.

I agree with SMN, PUP, & BST adjustments though. They were kinda needed lol. THF adjustments are nice.

It's true they take a hit, but Merit spells should NEVER have been a weakness, the whole premise was merit the job how you played it (admittedly VERY badly implemented) and becoming a weakness spell meant you needed 1/1 in all despite the limited spaces.

Kindra

04-03-2012, 03:30 AM

That statement about RDM is dead on lol. Yurin and Aishia Ichi are both procs. And yes I agree /nin skill lvls will make it very hard to proc with. But still it's a hard hit for both of those jobs.

The AM 2's being taken out isn't a bad thing for BLM's though lol. 1 less spell they have to worry about per element.

Camate

04-03-2012, 06:22 AM

Greetings!

With the version update that has taken place today, we have implemented the final chapter of Voidwatch as well as the content that was mentioned previously.

※We have found a bug where when using the periapt of sapience key item in the final chapter of Voidwatch, familiar and automaton weakness triggers will not be displayed correctly. Specifically, the hints for familiars and automatons will be displayed as they would originally. The displayed hints are still not updated and “Sheep Charge” and “Armor Shatterer” will be the only options needed to exploit weaknesses as stated last week.

Now them, on to some answers to questions we have been seeing.

• Temporary items
There have been some of you who are worried about whether temporary item distribution would be eliminated or not. There will be no changes to this. Besides the listed changes, the effects will be the same as always.

• Automaton weakness option
All of the previous options have been consolidated to only the Sharpshot frame weaponskill “Armor Shatterer”, making only one option for automatons to exploit an enemy’s weakness.

• Other familiar pets besides sheep
Since the Voidwatch participation level is 75 and we did not want to have a jug that cost too much, as a result of comparing the higher level pets for that level, we decided to pick Nazuna. However, this is something that can be changed. We’d like to look in to this based on your feedback, so if you have an opinion please let us know. (It won’t make it in time for the final chapter, but we would like to look into it for the future of existing Voidwatch content.)

• Voidwatch key item category
If possible we would like to address this in the next version update. We will be sure to let you know any information on implementation timing once we know.

• Making blue alignment and red alignment max at the beginning
This is currently only at the brainstorming phase, but this is one of the things we are thinking about to help low man groups and also players that get into Voidwatch later.

• Exchange tickets (name pending)
We are currently finalizing the specifications and will be able to announce some information in the very near future. We will be refining the exchangeable items to those that are difficult to obtain.

• Enfeebling magic resistance
Not only for Voidwatch, but for all battle content, we are proceeding with the enfeebling magic adjustments mentioned previously.

We will continue to make adjustments to existing Voidwatch content moving forward, so please continue to submit your feedback.

Karbuncle

04-03-2012, 06:48 AM

Thanks for all the wonderful information! Glad to know the ticket system will be coming soon. Hopefully they've considered adjusting it to not be a pointless 2-month long waste of development time.

One quick request, Can you ask them to allow Treasure Hunter break the hard cap on Red and Blue? That would be lovely :(

MarkovChain

04-03-2012, 06:58 AM

Monchat

04-03-2012, 07:42 AM

im waiting for the auto cap system. Ive always said getting 12 other people to get items from mobs defeatable by a party of 6, sucks. Well the later VW tiers are probably not 6- manable, but I personally 6-manned all chapter 1 and many of the first two tiers of jeuno, with hardly any trouble ( for Win purpose).

CPBismarck

04-03-2012, 09:21 AM

People say THF is useless as a DD in VW, but putting out Consistant 3-4k Mercy Strokes (stacked of course) and around 2-2.5k Exenterator's on PIL for example isnt too shabby. I seen SAM's do worse (of course they build TPfaster but we dps faster and for the hitting for 0, thats a joke right?) :s

I agree THF needs some serious revising, but when i WS for 3-4k on Pil im pretty happy with that.

scaevola

04-03-2012, 10:49 AM

I forgot about DNC, I mentioned RDM and SMN, But yah, DNC Really is in need of some help too. I sometimes forget its even a job...

Eh, as long as Dynamis currency works the way it does, DNC will probably remain a job worth putting time into.

Neisan_Quetz

04-03-2012, 12:05 PM

The ironic part being Dnc can't actually use a relic.

Kaisha

04-03-2012, 12:53 PM

So are the new trigger adjustments for Provenance going to be added to the rest of Voidwatch in the next update?

Calamity

04-03-2012, 01:53 PM

• Making blue alignment and red alignment max at the beginning
This is currently only at the brainstorming phase, but this is one of the things we are thinking about to help low man groups and also players that get into Voidwatch later.

This I consider a bad idea. One thing that was really done right with VW is it allowed for variety. It allowed much more freedom with job choices. If you change it so that red and blue start capped, this event will turn like all the others, in that players who don't want to level and gear sam, mnk, cor or whm will become unwelcome to these events.

I really see no point in a game with 20 different jobs when only 4 or 5 actually count for anything.

Arcon

04-03-2012, 02:41 PM

This I consider a bad idea. One thing that was really done right with VW is it allowed for variety. It allowed much more freedom with job choices. If you change it so that red and blue start capped, this event will turn like all the others, in that players who don't want to level and gear sam, mnk, cor or whm will become unwelcome to these events.

There was no diversity in VW, ever. There was no need for BLM, SMN, RDM, BLU, etc. There was only a need for their proc spells. I don't know about you, but I didn't feel like playing BLM when I was BLM for VW. I felt like I was forced to abuse my job to fit into the system proposed by VW. And that I didn't enjoy. I don't know about other people, though.

And aside from that, it limited job selection a lot more than any other event. Only it didn't limit it to a few jobs, but it forced a lot of other jobs, which, in turn, forced some people to come on jobs the group didn't have. I wanna come WAR or THF to VW, how often do you think I was either? Rarely, it's my BLM, SCH, SMN or BRD they want. Again, I can't speak for others but personally I wasn't happy about this. It forced jobs just as much as any previous system, only the other way around.

Capping red and blue light would help in that regard, actually. It would still require some proc jobs to be able to keep temporary items up (as they just said they won't change that, if I understood it correctly), only it wouldn't force you to cap red and blue lights specifically, meaning if you're after items you'll only need enough proc jobs to stay alive, not enough to cap everything out. For that I think it's a good step.

SpankWustler

04-03-2012, 03:34 PM

• Other familiar pets besides sheep
Since the Voidwatch participation level is 75 and we did not want to have a jug that cost too much, as a result of comparing the higher level pets for that level, we decided to pick Nazuna. However, this is something that can be changed. We’d like to look in to this based on your feedback, so if you have an opinion please let us know. (It won’t make it in time for the final chapter, but we would like to look into it for the future of existing Voidwatch content.)

Nursery Nazuna caps at level 86 without Beast Affinity merits and requires 4 Beast Affinity merits and augmented Monster Gloves +2 to cap at 99. Given that some of the stuff we bring our Voidvoyeurism to bear upon is hard to hit already and that Sheep Charge requires 100 TP, I could seen even a level 96 sheep being slightly more horrible than a level 99 sheep. Keeping in mind that pets can't drink Stalwart's Drink, a level 86 sheep would have a terrible time gaining the TP for Sheep Charge.

Lucky Lulush is available at the same level as Nursery Nazuna, almost as cheap to produce or buy, and has a much higher level cap. It also has a physical, single-target Ready command that's very similar to Sheep Charge.

Calamity

04-03-2012, 03:45 PM

There was no diversity in VW, ever. There was no need for BLM, SMN, RDM, BLU, etc. There was only a need for their proc spells. I don't know about you, but I didn't feel like playing BLM when I was BLM for VW. I felt like I was forced to abuse my job to fit into the system proposed by VW. And that I didn't enjoy. I don't know about other people, though.

And aside from that, it limited job selection a lot more than any other event. Only it didn't limit it to a few jobs, but it forced a lot of other jobs, which, in turn, forced some people to come on jobs the group didn't have. I wanna come WAR or THF to VW, how often do you think I was either? Rarely, it's my BLM, SCH, SMN or BRD they want. Again, I can't speak for others but personally I wasn't happy about this. It forced jobs just as much as any previous system, only the other way around.

Capping red and blue light would help in that regard, actually. It would still require some proc jobs to be able to keep temporary items up (as they just said they won't change that, if I understood it correctly), only it wouldn't force you to cap red and blue lights specifically, meaning if you're after items you'll only need enough proc jobs to stay alive, not enough to cap everything out. For that I think it's a good step.

Maybe that's just your experience. In mine people have a certain freedom to choose the jobs they want/feel most comfortable with. I've never felt that not wanting to level sam (or mnk or w/e the bandwagon of the week is) should automatically disqualify me from participation and I never will. Now obviously the real solution would be to close the gap between jobs, balance things out so that any DD/healer/support/whatever can do just as well as any other in their given role, but we'll see giant pink marshmallows falling from the sky before that happens. So that being the case I fully support a system that punishes overspecialization. It's the closest thing to "balance" we'll ever see

Karbuncle

04-03-2012, 04:04 PM

Nursery Nazuna caps at level 86 without Beast Affinity merits and requires 4 Beast Affinity merits and augmented Monster Gloves +2 to cap at 99. Given that some of the stuff we bring our Voidvoyeurism to bear upon is hard to hit already and that Sheep Charge requires 100 TP, I could seen even a level 96 sheep being slightly more horrible than a level 99 sheep. Keeping in mind that pets can't drink Stalwart's Drink, a level 86 sheep would have a terrible time gaining the TP for Sheep Charge.

Lucky Lulush is available at the same level as Nursery Nazuna, almost as cheap to produce or buy, and has a much higher level cap. It also has a physical, single-target Ready command that's very similar to Sheep Charge.

GooeyGerald is a really cheap high level pet with some amount of resistance as well. both his TP moves are magical though, Good thing is they can't miss!

SpankWustler

04-03-2012, 04:23 PM

GooeyGerald is a really cheap high level pet with some amount of resistance as well. both his TP moves are magical though, Good thing is they can't miss!

This is a good point.

Sadly, I mentioned that last bit because I assume that the Development Bros WANT the !!! move itself to miss at least 5% of the time. Balance, sadness, giant spiders with the heads of horses, etc. Even within the rabbit's repertoire, Lucky Lulush's Snowcloud would be preferable to Foot Kick since Snowcloud is elemental.

The rest came from having to pick something level 76 and cheap to match the Development Bros qualifications, and uncapped to match my own qualification.

Calamity

04-03-2012, 04:31 PM

This is a good point.

Sadly, I mentioned that last bit because I assume that the Development Bros WANT the !!! move itself to miss at least 5% of the time. Balance, sadness, giant spiders with the heads of horses, etc. Even within the rabbit's repertoire, Lucky Lulush's Snowcloud would be preferable to Foot Kick since Snowcloud is elemental.

The rest came from having to pick something level 76 and cheap to match the Development Bros qualifications, and uncapped to match my own qualification.

Yet sadly, in the end bst is going to be no more desired in VW now, than it was then. I just can't see an alliance leader filling a slot with a job that has 1 potential proc. Maybe if that sheep proc showed up at the same rate that all the bst procs combined came up before the update, which seemed pretty often, maybe. But odds are it'll be one of those procs that you'll see maybe once every 7-10 VW's or so.

Karbuncle

04-03-2012, 04:31 PM

yan, I figured thats why you picked Lulu tbh, Just throwing out another possibility :)

Dawnn

04-12-2012, 03:02 PM

So is there ANY news on the ticket system promised by SE?

Karbuncle

04-12-2012, 05:42 PM

So is there ANY news on the ticket system promised by SE?

Last word on it:

Its going to be really Terrible, Fix all of nothing, be a giant waste of time, and be completely forgotten due to uselessness within about a week.

Unless somethings changed and its not still the equivalent to finding 6 people who won the lottery twice to get you 1 item.

Rukkirii

04-13-2012, 07:32 AM

Greetings, adventurers of Vana'diel!

We have a few details to share with you in regards to the direction that the dev. team is thinking about going in regards to Voidwatch-related content.

Weaknesses and Familiar Pets
We received quite a few opinions in regards to familiar pets and exploiting weakness so we’d like to share what we’re considering based on what we read:

Considering utilizing pets that can reach level 99
Considering choosing pets with abilities that can’t miss (like breath attacks, for an example)

We would like to have more input on this so please continue to send us your feedback.

Weaknesses and Automatons
Similar with the familiar pets, we are considering making an adjustment so the Automaton can utilize special abilities that can’t miss.

We would also like to have more input on this matter so please continue to send us your feedback.

Odds on obtaining loot in Voidwatch
In the final chapter of Voidwatch, usage of ascent item is not taken into consideration when it comes to the odds on obtaining loot. Thus it does not mean that the odds are low since ascent items cannot be used. Instead, the odds are balanced based on the strength of the enemy and the specification of the loot.

Is it possible to obtain the victory key item even if the player get disconnected during Voidwatch?
As a common system structure for all battlefields, there is no way to keep the status of the victory/defeat flag in case a player gets disconnected.

We are currently brainstorming a solution for this and have several options in mind, such as placing an NPC that will maintain the battle status and once the player returns, they can load the status by talking to the NPC to confirm the result. In any case, it will require updates on various parts of the game system and will require some time so we would like to further discuss it internally.

Keep your suggestions and comments coming!

Alhanelem

04-13-2012, 07:39 AM

We are currently brainstorming a solution for this and have several options in mind, such as placing an NPC that will maintain the battle status and once the player returns, they can load the status by talking to the NPC to confirm the result. In any case, it will require updates on various parts of the game system and will require some time so we would like to further discuss it internally.This is a good idea, but you should seriously a core system change, even if it's significant work, to accomodate things like connection issues- like not require that the player be logged in in order for any state-based information to be maintained, and to enable the possibility of players remaining part of a party when they get disconnected (Just show an unplugged cable icon by their name or something). In World of Warcraft, players are not removed from a party when they get disconnected. I really, really wish both FFXI and FFXIV could implement this.

Helel

04-13-2012, 09:14 AM

Remove pet procs. There's your solution.

Zerich

04-13-2012, 09:17 AM

THE ODDS ARE BALANCED

Kaisha

04-13-2012, 09:31 AM

Are you guys going to move the revised triggering list employed on Provenance battles to the rest of Voidwatch?

Also, for the love of BLUs everywhere, look into reducing their list of spells so they're not stuck wasting so much time moving spells around and being stuck on their 1 minute cooldown.

Washburn

04-13-2012, 09:32 AM

0/300+ on Toci's. Balanced.

Raksha

04-13-2012, 11:49 AM

Watching ls mates drop hekas while i'm 0/107 and counting. Balanced.

Tsukino_Kaji

04-13-2012, 12:49 PM

0/300+ on Toci's. Balanced.
Watching ls mates drop hekas while i'm 0/107 and counting. Balanced.Neither of which being the finale.

Granny

04-13-2012, 01:29 PM

make meteor and arise more common drops.

Kaisha

04-14-2012, 01:27 AM

make meteor and arise more common drops.
Make anything from Provenance more common period.

Lovely to know our lvl99 endgame has a worse drop-rate than pretty much anything else in XI's history.

35 pieces from Salvage come close, but only because you couldn't spam the event like you can VW.

Elexia

04-14-2012, 02:02 AM

Neither of which being the finale.

I love me some logs for fighting the mothercrystal's avatar. I really do.

Longshot

04-14-2012, 02:17 AM

Could you at least make the crafting items drop more? Also, not to change the subject, but when will we get a glimpse of what is beyond Voidwatch?

Elexia

04-14-2012, 02:22 AM

Could you at least make the crafting items drop more? Also, not to change the subject, but when will we get a glimpse of what is beyond Voidwatch?

Legion is the content beyond VW.

Kaisha

04-14-2012, 02:28 AM

Also, not to change the subject, but when will we get a glimpse of what is beyond Voidwatch?
We should be getting a new 6-month content roadmap for the test server any time now, since the last on ended in March.

Assuming they'll even do another and not just hold it out until Vana'fest.

Cowardlybabooon

04-14-2012, 04:26 AM

Just hurry with the new system for duplicate armor so that folks can buy it and quit bitching.

Luvbunny

04-14-2012, 01:07 PM

Yeah they might as well go for free to play route and start selling these gears on micro transaction as options for those who are not willing to do the events for the 500th time.

saevel

04-14-2012, 08:45 PM

Yeah they might as well go for free to play route and start selling these gears on micro transaction as options for those who are not willing to do the events for the 500th time.

Shh don't give them ideas.

Alkimi

04-14-2012, 11:59 PM

make meteor and arise more common drops.

Pretty much this, supply is maybe one a week server wide and they're just sat in people's bazaars for 90 mil. Won't be any "comrades" to join forces with making meteor pretty pointless.

Fredjan

04-15-2012, 11:06 AM

Pretty much this, supply is maybe one a week server wide and they're just sat in people's bazaars for 90 mil. Won't be any "comrades" to join forces with making meteor pretty pointless.

Agreed. Even as more people get access to Provenance, greed comes first for most people over people actually getting the spells to learn them (This is why I wouldn't do Provenance in a pickup group) and everyone will be lotting Meteor/Arise and bazaaring it for millions of gil and thinking someone will actually buy them for that. I get the new item syndrome, but it's still stupid how high people are bazaaring them for (reasonable stuff I get, but ridiculous stuff I do not). Noticed that either Meteor's more common than Arise or WHMs are actually obtaining the spell when looking on FFXIAH item pages.

Either way, they should be more common than what they are.

tl;dr: Hey SE, there aren't going to be BLMs joining each other to destroy a mob when it's that hard to obtain. At least not for a long time.

Fondle

04-16-2012, 12:03 AM

tl;dr: Hey SE, there aren't going to be BLMs joining each other to destroy a mob when it's that hard to obtain. At least not for a long time.

pretty sure thats the point.. keep them 'busy' keep them paying for as long as possible?

Karbuncle

04-16-2012, 06:04 AM

pretty sure thats the point.. keep them 'busy' keep them paying for as long as possible?

Seems to be paying off since the population is but a shadow of its former self by now. You'll even notice my Karbuncle is gone. Luckily for me, Darkmessneger still seems to be active. So i can bug you guys more :D

That said, Their gameplan seems to be the death of them. They seem to think pumping out events with 0.1% Drop rates will lengthen how long we stay, betting on the gambler mindset, But in reality, Its just turning people away. Even they should be seeing now that more people are quitting daily due to their terrible plan to drive FFXI back into the dark ages.

You don't want to hand players everything, or the game becomes stale, but you also don't want to make said items so hard to get people lose their minds and motivation going for them. Its not hard to create a balance, But SE is devoted to Bottle-necking over fun or enjoyment or progression.

Legion was an honest attempt at middleground, But i don't know what the NPCs there offer. I think its all that situational "Legion: Buff" gear no one will bother purchasing because its situational to only legion and those armors are never worth keeping because of Inventory issues (See: Salvage/Assault/Beseiged Only gear). But I'll look up that list...

Edit: looked up the list. The +5 Stat rings with enhancements, and the Legion:Only Accessories. So... Pretty much all junk. 1-2 Situational pieces but again... Situational.

Xtrasweettea

04-17-2012, 03:39 AM

Weaknesses and Automatons
Similar with the familiar pets, we are considering making an adjustment so the Automaton can utilize special abilities that can’t miss.

We would also like to have more input on this matter so please continue to send us your feedback.
I agree with what others have said, remove the weakness triggers from the Automatons all together.

Though, if that isn't an open idea to the development team, I would suggest of using abilities that target the enemy instead of Weaponskills. These abilities should come from attachments, such as Flashbulb. There is a slight more control over when attachment effects shoot off than when Weaponskills can.

From my personal experience as a Puppetmaster who tried using the job in Voidwatch, I feel at the current state, Automaton Weaponskills does not flow with the quick pace of Voidwatch. From my perspective, the job is a burden on the group more than other jobs. The whole idea of trying to build TP on a pet, making sure the right maneuver is active, and pray to the deity of your choice that the enemy doesn't one-shot your pet before the Weaponskill fires off makes the event less enjoyable than it should be. It adds a layer of "difficulty" that is caused by luck (or bad luck in my case). On top of that, if the Weaponskill isn't the correct one, the process start all over again with a greater risk of killing the pet. Tactical Switch is an option, but that ability doesn't have a short recast timer on it. So, that ability isn't something to fall back on all the time.

If we go with the idea of having attachments that have an effect on the mob, then we have more control over the timing of the hitting weakness. With a specific pool of abilities that are tied to attachments, the Master only has to activate the maneuver, deploy the Automaton, and wait for the ability to fire off. This is much safer and more reliable than the current system. Using attachment abilities to trigger weakness also fits in with the quick pacing of Voidwatch.

Overall, the job itself is not Voidwatch friendly. Other than the subject of trying to trigger weakness with the Automaton, I feel that the Master's contribution to damage and other triggers is not up to par as other jobs. I have successfully triggered more Weaponskill related weaknesses as me playing Red Mage than on Puppetmaster for example. Puppetmaster after a while seems to plateau on damage capabilities that can easily be overshadowed in Voidwatch by other pure DD jobs. One of the few benefits to Puppetmaster is the capabilities to sub DNC without having most of the main job's damage capabilities hampered.

As much as I like seeing an attempt by the development team to add less than desired jobs to an event. The event isn't friendly to the job at all. It is the equivalent of trying to hammer a square peg through a round hole and trying to make it to where the other children in the play room do the same thing. You can make it work, but the other children are not going to bother with the square pegs and just use the round pegs instead (and use the hammer to mash it through faster).

Alhanelem

04-17-2012, 09:06 AM

I agree with what others have said, remove the weakness triggers from the Automatons all together. Only if all other job specific triggers are removed. I don't want my only leverage into an event removed.

Rukkirii

04-17-2012, 09:45 AM

Greetings,

Mocchi was able to speak to the dev. team to clarify a few things in regards to the Voidwatch Final Chapter regarding loot and weaknesses.

A player asked whether or not drop rates would be affected by Treasure Hunter, which caused some strategies to be changed around when compared to previous chapters. We can say that yes, Treasure Hunter does have an effect on loot drop rates and we plan on further increasing gear drop rates on top of this as well.

Some players suggested that we remove the low quality drops, or “useless” items, from the rewards at the end. We aren’t providing those lower tier rewards to cause players to be upset, and it is possible for us make it so those drops are removed and no item drops in their place instead.

However, if we were to replace certain items that are perceived as useless, with no drop players may feel that the loot system is bugged when they don’t receive any reward. As such, we would like to provide some sort of drop each time. Also, we have received many comments asking that the items dropped are improved slightly, but we have no plans to make any adjustments at the moment. We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.

We understand those that would like the drop rates of scrolls to be raised, but we consider gear to be the main aspect of rewards from the final chapter of Voidwatch. Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.

Weaknesses Beastmaster
It seems like opinions are split on call beasts. Seems like there are bit more calls for Gerard to be used, but we would like to continue to receive feedback.

Puppetmaster
For PUP’s weakness, we’re considering using “Strobe” as their trigger.

What about implementing weakness regardless of specific pets, avatars or automaton frames?
We didn’t touch on this last time, but in terms of this function, it will be implemented. However, we have to consider if it is acceptable to place weaknesses on support jobs when it comes to adding weaknesses to SMNs and PUPs.

To explain what we are trying to accomplish: we want to offer an exploitable weakness from the player’s pet/avatar/automaton at a certain rate if they use a special ability. Basically, we’re not trying to make it so “certain abilities will always result in a weakness trigger.” The reason is that it would be too difficult to manage which abilities are used in which situation when also needing to consider weaknesses in battle.

Karbuncle

04-17-2012, 09:59 AM

Even if they added higher tier "Synth" Items to the Loot pools of Final VW, Those items would then become crap-tier because people would be flooded with them. So I guess it doesn't really matter what the fluff rewards are.

Nice Info overall. :D

Siiri

04-17-2012, 10:09 AM

We understand those that would like the drop rates of scrolls to be raised, but we consider gear to be the main aspect of rewards from the final chapter of Voidwatch. Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.

Does anyone have any information on where else this drops? I assume Legion? BG only has Provenance listed, and I do believe those who said Qilin, etc were thought to be trolling. Any other news?

Xtrasweettea

04-17-2012, 10:50 AM

Only if all other job specific triggers are removed. I don't want my only leverage into an event removed.
Only if...
I understand your perspective, and that these weakness triggers are the only leverage Puppetmaster has, but until the Voidwatch system either fits the job, or the job fits the system, those leverages are going to be ignored for the most part. When it comes down to it, the system and the player-base feel that Puppetmaster is not a Voidwatch job. Those weaknesses that read across the screen showing an Automaton frame and the intensity of the weakness is viewed more as an inconvenience rather than an opportunity.

I am saying this as a person who tries to campaign to take Puppetmaster to every event and has used every leverage possible. I didn't work to get a Verethragna for the job if I did not intend to use it. I am not anti-Puppetmaster (or anti-pet jobs in general), I am just being realistic.

Dew

04-17-2012, 10:59 AM

In my experience, out of 20 kills on Provenance Watcher I've seen more Meteor and Arise then I have actual gear. Why not take one of the material slots and change it to one random Head, Hands, Legs, or Feet abj. This would allow people to get some reward for clearing the final boss, but at same time there is 20 different abjs that can drop in that slot.

The trove would look like this:

Random gear, body abj, scroll, or mat if no gear drops in slot 1.
Random head, hands, legs, or feet abj in slot 2.
Random material in slot 3.

This way you are getting somewhat rewarded, but still not getting everything right away. Getting 2 Red rocks and a Gold ore is pretty sad for the final boss. Also one more slot should be opened up from the direct drop pool. Maybe for a random Body abj.

So the pool would look like this:

Slot 1: Sword, Staff, Helm, Shield, Tes Body, Hat, or nothing.
Slot 2: F:body, S:body, C:body, T:body, L:body, or nothing.
Slot 3: Meteor, Arise, or nothing.

For a final boss of an event, Provenance Watcher has a pretty crappy drop rate.

Kysaiana

04-17-2012, 11:04 AM

Rather than getting rid of crap drops, I just wish that they stacked. Most of the time I have to toss logs or ores or what have you to make room for slightly-less-crappy-items.

Savlyn

04-17-2012, 11:50 AM

Edit: Read my post in a soothing, calm voice. lol It is not meant to sound angry, since I am not angry while I'm writing it, but it could easily come off that way:

Some players suggested that we remove the low quality drops, or “useless” items, from the rewards at the end. We aren’t providing those lower tier rewards to cause players to be upset, and it is possible for us make it so those drops are removed and no item drops in their place instead.

Honestly, that last line sounds like a threat. lol...

However, if we were to replace certain items that are perceived as useless, with no drop players may feel that the loot system is bugged when they don’t receive any reward. As such, we would like to provide some sort of drop each time. Also, we have received many comments asking that the items dropped are improved slightly, but we have no plans to make any adjustments at the moment. We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.

Crap drops = nothing.
No drops = nothing.
Nothing still = nothing. Do away with the logs. Saves the disappointment.

And as far as the last thing goes, why is there even a forum if our suggestions "will begin to get out of hand". Is it like the idea that if you feed a stray cat, it will keep coming back for more? So then all of our suggestions are just glossed over because the devs feel like they can't even appease a small portion of our frustrations without being forced to give us everything we ask for? That's not how it works. Make the bad things slightly better and we'll probably be happy. Albeit there will be people always asking for more, but here's the clincher: Don't give in to the ridiculous over the top requests? I don't understand why there is a forum if they have this kind of attitude.

Cybernetic_Empire

04-17-2012, 12:52 PM

Greetings,

Mocchi was able to speak to the dev. team to clarify a few things in regards to the Voidwatch Final Chapter regarding loot and weaknesses.

Some players suggested that we remove the low quality drops, or “useless” items, from the rewards at the end. We aren’t providing those lower tier rewards to cause players to be upset, and it is possible for us make it so those drops are removed and no item drops in their place instead.

However, if we were to replace certain items that are perceived as useless, with no drop players may feel that the loot system is bugged when they don’t receive any reward. As such, we would like to provide some sort of drop each time. Also, we have received many comments asking that the items dropped are improved slightly, but we have no plans to make any adjustments at the moment. We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.

Replace all useless drops with heavy metal plates.

Luvbunny

04-17-2012, 02:07 PM

I feel that they still do not get it - their roles is to create a game that appeals to their demographic player base, not the 1% minority but the 99% people who pay for the monthly subscription. None of us here is asking for insta drop on everything but some sort of ways to measure progression. Where is the ticket system? I understand they cannot just do every single request and have to draw the line somewhere, but so far they have done nothing good to improve void watch or any other content post abyssea. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow but every other content post abyssea will always be measured against it - get use to it and actually come back with a better solution if they feel that abyssea is a "failure". Giving us crap content that is 100% luck based is not the answer.

Windwhisper

04-17-2012, 02:09 PM

What about implementing weakness regardless of specific pets, avatars or automaton frames?
We didn’t touch on this last time, but in terms of this function, it will be implemented. However, we have to consider if it is acceptable to place weaknesses on support jobs when it comes to adding weaknesses to SMNs and PUPs.
[/LIST]

2nd worst idea ever. worst was to make SCH obsolete. If you plan on making Voidwatch more like abyssea where you only have 4 jobs that are needed, aka WAR WHM BLM BLU then go ahead.

Helel

04-17-2012, 02:22 PM

Nobody does legion, not enough for anyone to even know the scrolls drop from there... That's such a poor excuse for not increasing the drop rate on provenance watcher. Yeah let me go do legion and free lot against 36 other people for the scroll. Jesus. Both of these events need some serious retooling.

MarkovChain

04-17-2012, 03:53 PM

So the dev post was actually a troll to the legion thread. We learned that meteor drops somewhere else.

Arbole

04-17-2012, 04:24 PM

Make Prov Watcher drop Heavy Metal Plate purses... <_<;

Luvbunny

04-17-2012, 06:52 PM

Yeah this is borderline absurd to be honest. They basically intend to make this so called new events favor certain jobs combination - I understand they are trying to simplify things, but then stop making it complicated to begin with and needing 18-36 people if at the end you only need a few jobs to make it work.

Byrth

04-17-2012, 09:53 PM

Some players suggested that we remove the... “useless” items from the rewards at the end...

...we have received many comments asking that the items dropped are improved slightly, but we have no plans to make any adjustments at the moment. We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand.

Come on a trip with me!
1) Let me direct your attention to Folhardi Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Folhardi_Ring).
2) Now let me direct your attention to Keen Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Keen_Ring).
3) Now back to Folhardi Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Folhardi_Ring).
4) Now lets look at Excelsis Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Excelsis_Ring).
5) Aaand now lets return to Folhardi Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Folhardi_Ring).
6) Over to Demonry Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Demonry_Ring)!
7) Then Folhardi Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Folhardi_Ring) one last time.

When it was released, Folhardi ring (a R/Ex drop off one of the four highest level Voidwatch fights) looked so bad compared to easy quest/NM/AH alternatives that I sworn it would have some kind of hidden effect. It has been a few weeks now, and there have been no reports of it being anything but terrible. I wish it was the only bad drop from those fights, but it isn't.

The worst part is that you littered legion with crap drops too, but people don't even care enough about the event to do it and get angry about them.

Karbuncle

04-17-2012, 11:06 PM

Maybe it was a typo and has Acc+4 :X? I can dream

Camiie

04-17-2012, 11:10 PM

Some players suggested that we remove the low quality drops, or “useless” items, from the rewards at the end. We aren’t providing those lower tier rewards to cause players to be upset, and it is possible for us make it so those drops are removed and no item drops in their place instead.

However, if we were to replace certain items that are perceived as useless, with no drop players may feel that the loot system is bugged when they don’t receive any reward. As such, we would like to provide some sort of drop each time. Also, we have received many comments asking that the items dropped are improved slightly, but we have no plans to make any adjustments at the moment. We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.

As usual the devs choose to draw their line in wrong place. They're basically saying, we'll give you crap or we'll give you nothing.

Do the devs want people doing this stuff for a long time to come or not? If so, then they need to load the event down with lots and lots of things people actually will want. You catch more flies with honey and all that. There should be stuff for everyone to chase after and enough where it can't all be obtained in a handful of trips. It doesn't have to be overpowering or game breaking stuff either, but it does have to be better than what came before. You know how far people will go for just a small stat boost.

Come on, dev people, this is game design not behavioral science. These are people you're making content for not trained rats in a box. You need to meet us half-way, because ultimately we're the ones who are really running the show. You aren't doing it without us are you? You want to give us crap or nothing? Fine, you give us crap and we'll give you nothing. How's that work for you?

Mahoro

04-17-2012, 11:15 PM

If the implication is that Meteor/Arise drop from Legion, I'd advise to implement the proposed changes ASAP, because the event needs adjustments in its current state as Ein did when it was first released. My LS and I WANT to do Legion (and the prospect of Meteor/Arise dropping would be nice if true), but the difficulty skew is way too high at the moment.

Luvbunny

04-17-2012, 11:16 PM

When it was released, Folhardi ring (a R/Ex drop off one of the four highest level Voidwatch fights) looked so bad compared to easy quest/NM/AH alternatives that I sworn it would have some kind of hidden effect. It has been a few weeks now, and there have been no reports of it being anything but terrible. I wish it was the only bad drop from those fights, but it isn't.

The worst part is that you littered legion with crap drops too, but people don't even care enough about the event to do it and get angry about them.

LOL thanks for pointing this to us. Yeah they put so many crappy drops everywhere even in lower Voidwatch tiers, it's very uneven. I mean if they are going to put materials drop in Voidwatch, Walk of Echoes, Campaign, Gold sturdy pixies, etc - please make it even across the board so that everything drop in prices and make crafting so much easier!!! And make it so that people can put more items or stack a lot of those unstackable logs. Otherwise all those junks are gonna go NPCs and the crafters get zero benefits.

Sidegrade gears and accessories are fine and dandy but when a lot of em are so laughably bad (mantis eye...for one) - they really need to look at their priorities!! If they keep telling us they cannot do anything else but new contents for now, then they better make sure that those contents are GOOD, FUN, ENJOYABLE and WORTH doing. It really baffles me that they learn almost nothing from their previous blockbuster content -when they consider that it was a big failure and the take away is to never do anything so good and fun like that ever again because those content pleases people.

Monchat

04-17-2012, 11:41 PM

Come on a trip with me!
1) Let me direct your attention to Folhardi Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Folhardi_Ring).
2) Now let me direct your attention to Keen Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Keen_Ring).
3) Now back to Folhardi Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Folhardi_Ring).
4) Now lets look at Excelsis Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Excelsis_Ring).
5) Aaand now lets return to Folhardi Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Folhardi_Ring).
6) Over to Demonry Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Demonry_Ring)!
7) Then Folhardi Ring (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Folhardi_Ring) one last time.

When it was released, Folhardi ring (a R/Ex drop off one of the four highest level Voidwatch fights) looked so bad compared to easy quest/NM/AH alternatives that I sworn it would have some kind of hidden effect. It has been a few weeks now, and there have been no reports of it being anything but terrible. I wish it was the only bad drop from those fights, but it isn't.

The worst part is that you littered legion with crap drops too, but people don't even care enough about the event to do it and get angry about them.

and then I bring them Mars's ring: lol.

SpankWustler

04-18-2012, 02:07 AM

A player asked whether or not drop rates would be affected by Treasure Hunter, which caused some strategies to be changed around when compared to previous chapters. We can say that yes, Treasure Hunter does have an effect on loot drop rates and we plan on further increasing gear drop rates on top of this as well.

Whoa. Some aspect of something dropping somehow in some sort of Voidwatch is being increased? I feel like I may have fallen through my toilet this morning and tumbled into an alternate dimension. I always suspected it was a space-time toilet.

We feel that we have to draw a line somewhere, or else the requests would begin to get out of hand. As such, we will maintain our current system.

We understand those that would like the drop rates of scrolls to be raised, but we consider gear to be the main aspect of rewards from the final chapter of Voidwatch. Since Arise and Meteor can be obtained through other content, we will maintain their current drop rates.

The quantum space-time continuum is safe, apparently, and my bathroom likely has no preternatural qualities whatsoever beyond being haunted by my racist grandmother. Disappointing, because I was looking forward to electing a lizard-person president and growing an evil goatee and seeing drop rates in Voidwatch improve.

Weaknesses Beastmaster
It seems like opinions are split on call beasts. Seems like there are bit more calls for Gerard to be used, but we would like to continue to receive feedback.

I'd much prefer a Gerard ability over a Nazuna ability. Gerard is not level-capped and it has a magical Ready options that can not miss. I wouldn't mind the higher level jug at all, and I super-seriously doubt anyone would.

Sparthos

04-18-2012, 02:23 AM

Sidegrade gears and accessories are fine and dandy but when a lot of em are so laughably bad (mantis eye...for one) - they really need to look at their priorities!! If they keep telling us they cannot do anything else but new contents for now, then they better make sure that those contents are GOOD, FUN, ENJOYABLE and WORTH doing. It really baffles me that they learn almost nothing from their previous blockbuster content -when they consider that it was a big failure and the take away is to never do anything so good and fun like that ever again because those content pleases people.

Mantis Eye is a bad example because prior to Mantis Eye the ammo slot was not a place you could stick alot of accuracy into. The forerunner to Mantis Eye was a drop off Yilbegan (Lucky Coin) which assumed you didn't get a fake that dropped logs and ingots.

Yeah.

Karbuncle

04-18-2012, 02:27 AM

Asymptotic

04-18-2012, 03:06 AM

Sparthos

04-18-2012, 03:21 AM

Considering the Majority of the jobs on Mantis eye had far better Ranged Ammo.

THF had Raider's Boomerange
DNC had Charis Feather
MNK had Empyrean Ammo or any of the STR/Attack Ammos
COR - Lol.
PUP - Lol.
RNG - Lol. F**king Seriously, COR, PUP, and RNG on an Ammo Item?
BLU - IDK enough about BLU.

Basically, Mantis Eye, regardless of offering accuracy in Ammo, Was garbage tier Garbage. If a Hate offers MP+100 MND+20 to THF, Just because its the best MND hat for THF doesn't mean its a useful item. Mantis Eye falls to the same problem. Its just garbage period.

Not a single job got a use out of Mantis Eye is what I'm trying to say, 10 Accuracy was not worth sacrificing the much better benefits that slot had to offer.

Edit: Also, Lucky Coin was one of the "Fake Yilb" Drops. It could come off the Non-Shadow.

Mantis Eye offers accuracy whereas those pieces of ammo do not and though situations are rare where you'll need to swap said pieces for the eye, it's still a good piece in those rare situations where you need to ACC stack.

This goes doubly so for those players who think they're capping acc on everything when they aren't.

My point wasn't to defend the Mantis Eye moreso than say that while Mantis Eye has few practical applications it is a common drop and thus appropriate to be what it is.

Items like Strategema Knife, Nikko-ichimonji, Puninshing gloves or even Dhampyr sword or the aforementioned Folhardi Ring are better examples of items that stand no chance of being used, were dead on arrival and border on outright confusing. A BLU can make use of a Mantis Eye but what the fuck is a Strategema Knife gonna do?

This only gets more confusing when you compare Kaggen (relatively joke tier mob now) to petrifact battlefields (hit or miss PUG content).

Fredjan

04-18-2012, 05:32 AM

Well, that post pretty much confirms Arise/Meteor coming from Legion as well then, undoubtedly from Hall of Mul in the final wave..."Extremely difficult to obtain" indeed.

Honestly, it's not going to matter for ages where it comes from. Lot against 17 people or 35...I'd rather take my chances doing Provenance Watcher and hoping to win a lot, and that didn't sound feasible. I'd wager Legion would have a higher drop rate due to how difficult it is, but that won't really matter, no one's even gotten that far yet.

I'm all for an increased drop rate of gear and abjurations in the final VW chapter, though.

MarkovChain

04-18-2012, 05:58 AM

Karbuncle

04-18-2012, 06:03 AM

You don't get it. You're not always capping accuracy. When you actually NEED the accuracy, the ammo slot is a great place to sacrifice and toss in +10 from Mantis Eye. Just because YOU'RE not a good enough player to see the benefits of an accuracy build doesn't mean everyone is that short-sighted.

COR, PUP and RNG ... who knows, but BLU, DNC, and MNK all make use of Mantis Eye in accuracy builds.

Good players know when and where to sacrifice for accuracy, Not just to pick up an accuracy item and shove it in the slot because it was easy to obtain. They also consider things like Switching from YCB/RCB to Pizza as well if accuracy is heavily needed, before recompiling their TP set. So its Ironic you would stoop to saying I'm a bad player when you seem to be exerting the symptoms.

Accuracy is important, sure, this is irrefutable. But not, or rarely, to the point Mantis eye is a consideration, especially when of the jobs you listed, MNK would only benefit from +4 Accuracy over say, Empyrean Ammo, which also offers +4STR, If you need the accuracy, chances are you're in need for fSTR too, So thats going to be helping you a lot. (even though Potestosw/e Bomblet is the better option, I'm mentioning Empyrean Ammo as a second-best Accuracy alternative)

DNC 7.5acc from the same, for a sacrifice of 5DEX and 5%Crit damage. 4 Acc or 7.5 Acc isn't going to make a drastic improvement, This means you're swapping other gear for the Accuracy build. Is the extra 4-7 Acc making or breaking your set? Could it be replaced in other spots to regain a useful Ammo item? There's a lot of questions, But i know one thing ASYMP, I've yet to see a build anywhere at anytime that included a Mantis Eye.

This is because, there are plenty of accuracy options above and beyond Mantis Eye which are better suited for replacements when accuracy is needed, than immediately going for Mantis Eye, Mantis eye would be more of a last resort for those jobs, in a fight where you desperately need accuracy, Of which i still don't know of any.

Charis Feather offers 5% Crit Damage, and 5DEX, Its adding about 2.5 acc, And some DEX toward Critical hit rate. To need to replace it with Mantis Eye for 7.5 Accuracy would have to be an absolute desperate for accuracy situation. DNC Doesn't have terrible accuracy problems. They have Accuracy Bonus Job trait, as well as no short supply of accuracy heavy gear that they would wear normally.

Theres maybe 2-3 Mobs where a Heavy Accuracy build could be needed in voidwatch alone, But those are few and far between, and even then, I would consider switching to Pizza+1 first before i considered seriously revamping my Armor choices, Since most of those Enemies in Voidwatch who need Accuracy hold ridiculous amounts of Evasion. The Beetle in Ronf comes to mind. I'll admit to not having enjoyed Legion to know what Accuracy you may need there, So this could be an event where thats necessary.

There are better options, and I will stick by my statement, Mantis eye is trash. Just because something is questionably useful for a handful of fights doesn't make it a good item. I say questionably useful because I'm sure there's other slots you can squeeze accuracy into without sacrificing as much as one would for Mantis Eye. MNK and DNC Would be sacrificing the least of the jobs listed however, if that's something. BLU I contend i still just don't know what that job can wear in Ammo...

Plus, MNK Empyrean offer 6 Accuracy as well as 4 STR? 4 Acc vs 4 STR is a no brainer if you need the Accuracy, But then again i ask you, What situations are there where you're in such terrible need for Accuracy? What fights? I ask this not mockingly but seriously. Tell me the situations, Show me your Accuracy Builds you use for it. Cause I can't think of very many situation where just +4~7.5 Accuracy would be enough of an improvement to a TP phase, So you have to be making changes in other slots to accommodate the accuracy. To which point i ask if Switching to Marinara Pizza+1 would be a better option.

Then MNK has to take into consideration the fact they'll likely be in a BRD or COR party, and can get an Accuracy Buff. If the mob is o-so-evasive you're considering a Mantis Eye, Obviously other DD Could be having accuracy Issues, And should be no issue having an Accuracy song put on, or at least borrowing some Pizza from them. DNC might have a problem since it'd probably be in the proc party... Since its a worthless job.

I think I know you well enough to know where the next post is going. Probably some name calling, personal Attacks, belittling me instead of addressing the issue. Its hard to make an argument from nothing without resorting to attacking the person you're arguing with instead of addressing the issue. Will i be surprised? Stay tuned.

Edit: I knew i recognized your name from FFXIAH, Explains the lustful hate of me for no reason. But I stalked a little further. I checked your FFXIAH Item sets, None of them include Mantis eye, I went as far as to check your Equipment history on the off chance it got caught in that, Nope... Mantis eye is nowhere to be found. This means nothing of course as the Updates are random and most people don't post all their gear sets for obvious reasons. But to advocate Mantis eye with such hostility you resort to personal attacks, and yet you have no item sets based around it, strikes me as odd.

I even went so far as to read up the latest DNC gossip on FFXIAH, not a single mention of Mantis eye in any of the gear threads. Not even by you. So this has me scratching my head. If this item has apparently maintained enough use to attack someone on a personal level when they mention its uselessness, you seem to have never mentioned it at all until this point. Please enlighten me as to why you've kept this a secret until now?

saevel

04-18-2012, 08:56 AM

Stuff, don't want to make a WoT quote

Ehh, for BLU and MNK the Eye isn't bad if your under acc cap. Switching to eye is more effective then using Pizza or switching around other pieces. 4STR is only 1 fSTR and 2 attack which are incredibly minor when compared to the 5% hit rate that 10 accuracy brings. Accuracy is not to be taken lightly nor assumed to always be auto-capped, abyssea has really ruined the player base's idea of accuracy, back at 75 it was the 2nd most important stat with haste being the first. Now that we're at 99 we're now fighting monsters at level 110 or more, that is a pretty hefty cut into your accuracy to begin with and it doesn't help that SE likes to play with monster stats.

Karbuncle

04-18-2012, 09:10 AM

Ehh, for BLU and MNK the Eye isn't bad if your under acc cap. Switching to eye is more effective then using Pizza or switching around other pieces. 4STR is only 1 fSTR and 2 attack which are incredibly minor when compared to the 5% hit rate that 10 accuracy brings. Accuracy is not to be taken lightly nor assumed to always be auto-capped, abyssea has really ruined the player base's idea of accuracy, back at 75 it was the 2nd most important stat with haste being the first. Now that we're at 99 we're now fighting monsters at level 110 or more, that is a pretty hefty cut into your accuracy to begin with and it doesn't help that SE likes to play with monster stats.

Only point i attempt to make is that for DNC and MNK, its a difference of about 7 Accuracy, or 4 Accuracy, Neither of which will be a game changer when it comes to those types of fights, and theres plenty of other changes you can make first, with a much bigger impact. In most cases, 4~7 Accuracy won't make or break a build. Which is about 2~4% Hit rate bonus. (comparing to the next best things MNk and DNC have for Accuracy, Empyrean Ammo)

I see your point Saevel, And i understand the value of accuracy, Its just the minimal/negligible amount of accuracy a Mantis Eye offers over alternatives seems rather insignificant, and would not make a large enough impact on a Build to be considered worth carrying around the inv-1 Item for those 1-2 Fights it might be worth it, and again, Even in those fights, there's many other alternatives.

I remember 75 as if it was yesterday, I still have old pictures of my TP sets from back then... the memories, Accuracy was a huge thing. Now adays it means a little less because most events offer boosts to that (Stalwarts, Atmacite, Etc), But I'm well aware of its importance still today!

I'm not doubting accuracy as a valuable stat, Simply Mantis Eye is so limited in its uses, and even its "uses" are questionable because of the dozens of other options you have when considering an Accuracy heavy build, that the item itself becomes situational to such a strong extent its a just garbage. Its 'maybe' useful for 2/3 of the jobs on less than a handful of enemies, and this is assuming you have no way buffs available, Like BRD or COR, or are stuck in a Proc party (Voidwatch).

There just aren't as many enemies today that require accuracy heaviness. Its not to say the stat is meaningless, far far from it, its just the situation where the stat is deemed "heavily needed" enough to rebuild a gear-set around it are far and very few between. Hell back at 75 Accuracy was under heavy consideration for Merit Parties, I remember Colibri TP Sets... Back in those days, Something Like Mantis Eye could be quite useful, since most of the game revolved around maximizing accuracy, as it was a difficult task back then. Today, not so much. Skills are much higher, and As I reiterate, there are fights where accuracy is an issue, but its few and far between, and you always have stuff Like Stalwarts, and BRD songs to help.

I think the only fight i can think of off the top of my head i had accuracy problems with, on THF, was the Beetle in Ronfaure, that guy is just annoying beyond words... Sorry to keep creating wall of posts, My thought process forces me too, and i repeat myself a lot because i know attention spans are short.

MarkovChain

04-18-2012, 04:36 PM

4STR is only 1 fSTR and 2 attack which are incredibly minor when compared to the 5% hit rate that 10 accuracy brings..

Oh noes and madrigals/sushi will give you +50% hit rate. All of a sudden your craptastic ammo slot look dumb. It's pretty much only usuful when at 90% hit rate while other gears have capped acc onthem. And you don't compare it 4str/2 att, you compare it to +15 attack from potestas bomblet, which is between 4% and 5% damage boost too.

xiozen

04-18-2012, 08:14 PM

Weaknesses[LIST] Beastmaster
It seems like opinions are split on call beasts. Seems like there are bit more calls for Gerard to be used, but we would like to continue to receive feedback.
Puppetmaster
For PUP’s weakness, we’re considering using “Strobe” as their trigger.

I think this idea is cool for PUP; however for BST, can the Devs consider a pet that can be purchased from an NPC (if the pet is Gerard, then add Gerard to an NPC for a set amount of gil, or maybe even cruor...). Not all BST will have crafting skill enough to "make" the appropriate jug pet for the event and regardless of the pet decided upon; at least make it accessible. Luckily the Auction House has a regular influx of pet jugs at end game level, however that will not always be the case.

Just sayin.'

Karbuncle

04-18-2012, 10:02 PM

Gerard seems to be one of the pets thats always on the AH, and if he becomes the single proc pet, I'm positive his stock will be kept up. Prices may jump a little, But he will be in stock.

I don't mind the idea of adding the Jug Pet thats procer to the NPC though... But i think Gerard really is the best bet. Cheap to make/buy, Can't-miss BPs, and I'm pretty sure he has some resistances to magic built in?

saevel

04-18-2012, 10:35 PM

Karb,

Please understand, 10 acc in an accessory slot used to cost millions of gil. T.Ring and PCC both were ridiculously expensive precisely for the fact that their slots didn't contain haste and thus acc becomes the best option (for when your not capped).

I do lots of parsing to see what level of evasion / defense the target monster has, and I can tell you that most people are not capping accuracy anymore, even with stalwarts / bravers. 2H's is not so much an issue as they have tons of accuracy options that don't require them to trade off haste. DW's are a bit more limited which is what the Mantis Eye is created for. It's a PCC for your ammo slot. The two most important components to your damage is how fast you hit (capped haste / DW) and how often you hit (accuracy). Cap both of those and then worry about everything else.

Karbuncle

04-18-2012, 11:03 PM

the reason 10 Accuracy in an Accessory slot used to cost so much because back in those days, Accuracy was a pain to cap, And a lot of good Melee Haste Gear did not offer a lot of Accuracy. Today, Its hard to find haste gear without accuracy. Take Raider's Bonnet+2 vs W.Turban. +12 Accuracy. Raider's Body? +10DEX(5acc) +5 Dagger skill (~4 Acc) as well as 5% Haste.

Accuracy is already piled on so much natural Melee gear, the need to sacrifice slots for Accuracy is relatively low. Its not that the stat is not important, its that the gear we wear normally generally has more accuracy than we know what to do with.

Back in the day, Dusk Gloves, Haste, No accuracy
Today - brego Gloves - Accuracy+5

Back in the day, W.Turban, Haste, No Acc
Today - Pretty much every haste head ever - Acc or DEX in large amounts.

Back in the day, Accuracy was hard to fill in slots that didn't sacrifice haste, SO accessories were the big spot, Today, Haste/Acc are Love partners, So the value of needing to sacrifice accessories for Acc is diminished. And with the support most fights offer in Stalwarts, Bravers, Atmacites... Accuracy heavily needed is further diminished.

I hope I'm making myself clear here. I'm cutting a lot of my train of thought out to make this short.

Cybernetic_Empire

04-19-2012, 12:34 AM

How about people stop arguing over ammo slot gear for pages on end and focus on the fact that the devs are out of touch when it comes to why people are pissed about VW.

Asymptotic

04-19-2012, 01:41 AM

Edit: I knew i recognized your name from FFXIAH, Explains the lustful hate of me for no reason. But I stalked a little further. I checked your FFXIAH Item sets, None of them include Mantis eye, I went as far as to check your Equipment history on the off chance it got caught in that, Nope... Mantis eye is nowhere to be found. This means nothing of course as the Updates are random and most people don't post all their gear sets for obvious reasons. But to advocate Mantis eye with such hostility you resort to personal attacks, and yet you have no item sets based around it, strikes me as odd.

I even went so far as to read up the latest DNC gossip on FFXIAH, not a single mention of Mantis eye in any of the gear threads. Not even by you. So this has me scratching my head. If this item has apparently maintained enough use to attack someone on a personal level when they mention its uselessness, you seem to have never mentioned it at all until this point. Please enlighten me as to why you've kept this a secret until now?

1.) I don't know who you are so I have no lustful hatred for you, that's you being paranoid.
2.) http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27566/the-last-dance-gearing-paradigms-for-a-new-age#1671944
3.) http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/242182

Asymptotic

04-19-2012, 02:04 AM

Sushi / madrigal / wat is it ¿

The only way you don't cap on anything with the above buff is if you got like minimum hit rate possible ... I'm sure that on those voidwatch people have a COR also so yeah ..

Can get 4x songs with a single bard, wtf would you care about accuracy in a slot. I don't have room to carry bullcrap in my monk invo. I already gave up lol-chakra set, counter set and what not. When farming, it's necessary to keep several free invo slots too, like when I'm farming ADL pop set or just coins.

I'd rather cap accuracy and gear and eat RCB, thanks. Also, I don't see a Daurdabla BRD very often, so I'd rather cap accuracy before songs and then take 2x marches.

Also, I never argued that it was an amazing gear item, but for being the common drop, it gets more use than some other common VW drops (Sceamol band, for instance).

Sparthos

04-19-2012, 02:10 AM

I'd rather cap accuracy and gear and eat RCB, thanks. Also, I don't see a Daurdabla BRD very often, so I'd rather cap accuracy before songs and then take 2x marches.

Also, I never argued that it was an amazing gear item, but for being the common drop, it gets more use than some other common VW drops (Sceamol band, for instance).

Finally someone who gets it.

Karbuncle

04-19-2012, 07:14 AM

I guess going from 0 Uses to 1 Use is an improvement. But I still maintain that does not make it a useful item. Its like saying one pile of dog sh*t smells a little less than the other pile. They're both still Dog Sh*t. Maybe i was a little unclear, I don't think i was, But I'm sorry if it was lost in my rambles... I was never trying to arguing Mantis eye had no uses at all, Its just its uses were incredibly situation that it would be the FFXI equivalent to the stars aligning that its use would become present. So in that vain, I felt the item was worthless due to its incredibly limited situational manner. Such as armor like Assault: only or Besieged:Only was deemed.

So I guess I should leave no room for misinterpretation here. I acknowledge its one use thus confirmed. an Aggressor Down Set for DNC for Mobs with High Evasion. But that does not make it a successful item. It makes it less crap than the other crap by a small margin.

ugh reminding me of that Sceamol band...

1.) I don't know who you are so I have no lustful hatred for you, that's you being paranoid.
2.) http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27566/the-last-dance-gearing-paradigms-for-a-new-age#1671944
3.) http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/242182

Fair enough, But i still think you're hiding something from me one 1... Also, any word on MNK? I dug through those topics too and couldn't find mention of it. You seem to search better.

For the record, Pizza+1 is not a huge sacrifice to maintain capped haste, Good chunk of Attack, and Higher Accuracy Values, without having to rearrange gear. I still maintain using that first might be a better option. Red Curry Buns however, Hard to replace for sure.

Edit; Of note, the set i a little outdated, Belenos mantle is no longer the best option, This:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/10999/dauntless-mantle
Would be a good update if you can pass that on to him.

Asymptotic

04-19-2012, 09:14 AM

That's me, and yeah, I haven't updated those sets for a while.

Asymptotic

04-19-2012, 09:26 AM

Luvbunny

04-19-2012, 10:06 AM

Where are these so called ticket system? Are we gonna get it 6-10 months later when barely anyone bother doing Voidwatch anymore? This seems to be the trend in the past 10 years. Create new contents with low drop rates + 24-72 hours limitation + impossible difficulties + 18-32 players required + crap items reward + no measured progression, then proceed with ignore player feedbacks, do minimal adjustments, continue ignore player feedbacks and hope that said event will eventually die down due to unpopularity (pankrator, colosseum, chocobo racing, moblin maze, the list go on and on). Hellooooo you have forum to solicit feedbacks, and you have international player base, not just japanese players, please FOCUS on adjusting and improving contents, be it new or old, and do not ignore our feedbacks and hope we will just get tire of it and abandon that said content. As developer/content created its is your goal to create something that will be embraced by your player base, something that can be enjoyed and accessible by all.

Asymptotic

04-19-2012, 11:48 AM

Stop holding out for the ticket system, the way they have described it to be implemented is a waste of everyone's time, including theirs.

Karbuncle

04-20-2012, 12:20 AM

MNK accuracy build: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/254911
BLU TP set: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/55243

In addition, Mantis Eye is prety much a staple in Heavy Strike sets (spell with large ACC penalty). Not bad for the Kaggen analogue of Andvaranauts.

That said, I had to trash 3 mekira mekiogais before Kaggen put out a mantis eye for me. LOL Voidwatch?

Advaranauts, Oh those things.

wait wait. 3 Mekira's..... wait.............................................. I think I'm going to hire thugs to beat you up now D: I've tossed enough Mantis Eyes to stock a jewel shops inventory for 3 years.

Karbuncle

04-20-2012, 12:22 AM

Stop holding out for the ticket system, the way they have described it to be implemented is a waste of everyone's time, including theirs.

Also this. Apparently the decided upon system would be:

You have to have 6 Tickets specific to the Item you want to get the item. Only way to Obtain Tickets is by buying them, Or getting said Item a second time.

So instead of going the Logical route, and making 1 Ticket per NM, With Different Values of how many tickets needed for what item, They went the "PANTS ON HEAD" route.

Then again, Captain Mekira here has gotten 3, So i guess He'd be 1/3rd of the way to another body in the ticket system.

Edit: Well Shoot, This was suppose to be an edit.

Asymptotic

04-20-2012, 12:26 AM

I can't even wear it. I got a Phasmida Belt on my first run, so the only reason I was doing Kaggen at all was for cruor + a mantis eye.

Also I'd be 1/3 of the way to another Mekira Mekiogai, since getting Mekira a 2nd time would get me a Mekira ticket, etc.

Raksha

04-20-2012, 12:36 AM

I'm not holding out much hope for the ticket system personally, but if my current luck with Heka body holds, i'd probably be able to redeem one with tickets long before I get one in a chest.

Mahoro

04-20-2012, 02:28 AM

Rak ;; well, once the ticket system gets implemented, I'll do what I said for you: Fill the Akvan ally entirely with people in LS who either have Heka's or need Heka's, so at least we can maximize our chances and make progression.

Asymptotic

04-20-2012, 02:51 AM

That's one of the major problems with the ticket system. If I already have all the drops from a NM, why would I do it again when there are other NMs on which I could be using my voidstones/voiddust that drop things that I can either need/want, or drop items that I can sell for profit?

Mahoro

04-20-2012, 03:06 AM

Well one of the reasons they thought this system was a compromise is what you just outlined in your post of 11:26AM above. You would have gotten tickets in that scenario. But yeah, it's a flawed system. It assumes people will use stones in repeat runs. I'd use some stones to help out LS mates in repeat runs since I accrue a lot more stones than I end up using in a week. I have gotten such items like Mekira Meikogai and Ace's Mail even though I have no use for them, but I saved them so I could get tickets for LS mates in the future. But yeah, your random PUG won't operate by the same benevolent principles, since you usually wouldn't join a PUG unless you needed the item to begin with.

EDIT: I think they also assume you would use stones for one of the other rationales you said, to sell the tickets for profit. Of course, that's like playing the 1% RNG lottery.

Asymptotic

04-20-2012, 05:03 AM

The thing is, I could spam Mellonia or Cherufe or something for a much better chance at a payout.

Mahoro

04-20-2012, 06:02 AM

Oh I'm not saying it's a great stone:gil ratio, but I can see people with stones coming out of their asses doing it. I know some people in my LS with 200+ stones. I still think the ticket system is flawed for the reasons you said, but either way, tickets WILL enter the system. They'll just be rare.

Karbuncle

04-20-2012, 06:15 AM

Problem is, how much would you be willing to pay for a Toci's Harness? Or Mekira Body? needing 6 Tickets, of which one will be entering the system about as often as a Sagasinger, their prices won't be cheap.

Would you pay 60mil for a Toci's? 30mil? The Rarity of a Ticket for a high-end Item... Its going to make any of these items incredibly hard to come by, and again. needing 6 is absolutely dumb. theres no reason for the number to be so high, Sure, Maybe for Mantis Eyes, But for a Mekira/Toci's/Coruscanti/etc to need 6 Duplicates drop to someone who already has it? Its asinine to even think thats reasonable.

At most it should be 2. I can't see why something so rare can't go on a 1 to 1 Trade basis... I don't even know. :|

Thinking about the ticket system again and its glorious fail is making me upset.

Asymptotic

04-21-2012, 02:59 AM

It's even worse that people keep asking about it. Everytime someone asks about the bloody ticket system and when it's going to be implemented, i just want to reach into the computer and slap them.

SpankWustler

04-21-2012, 04:43 AM

Every time the ticket system comes up, a scenario plays in my head.

Someone in a nightmarish death camp is asking when the gas chamber will be repaired so that the screaming and pleading won't last for two hours, slowly become more gurgle-like over that time, during each and every morally reprehensible mass execution.

I guess you've got to take what you can get, sometimes.

Luvbunny

04-22-2012, 04:49 AM

They will put the ticket system - in 2013, when VW is nothing but an "old" content. In the meantime they will do pretty much very minimal adjustment. It's a cheap way for them to hook the player base and a great way to extend the time sink and grind. This is why they will do very little to adjust Legion or Neo Nyzul or Salvage, Einherjar and the new version of them. They probably regret that they made dynamis way too accessible for everyone, hence you get punished with the last stages for magian trial weapons. They already said they will have to draw the line, meaning don't cross the low drop rate or asking useful items to be included in most popular contents - ain't gonna happen, EVER. No way they will us consume the post abyssea content in a faster rate similar to how fun and easy abyssea contents are.

It's in their best interest to give players the illusion of hope that your next chest will give you that item that you want it the most but alas, no such luck, try again for another 200th round. Just be very glad that most of the new gears are alternative gears with only stats bonus but not much job specific bonuses so it won't replace the AF3+2 and only situational.

Mahoro

04-22-2012, 07:34 AM

Please stop. It is neither endearing nor persuasive anymore. We get it. You loved Abyssea.

Camate

04-28-2012, 03:47 AM

Happy Friday everyone!

After looking into everyone’s feedback in regards to Voidwatch weaknesses, we will be proceeding with the below adjustments.

• Red Mage
While there is a concern that red mages would lose the ability to exploit weaknesses that only they can execute, we have decided that there are more concerns with merit point spell limitations, so we will be removing the merit point spells similar to other jobs.

• Ninja
As a majority of feedback we received had no problems with removing San-tier of elemental jutsus, we will also be following through with this.

• Beastmaster
Since there were no real objections to this, we will be proceeding with being able to exploit weaknesses without relying on specific pets/abilities.

• Puppetmaster
It seems like there was a large amount of feedback mentioning that Strobe would be good. However, instead of limiting this to Strobe, we would like to increase the amount of freedom, while still keeping the possibility of selecting Strobe.

The above content will be reflected in the May test server update and will begin with the final chapter for now.

Daniel_Hatcher

04-28-2012, 03:49 AM

• Red Mage
While there is a concern that red mages would lose the ability to exploit weaknesses that only they can execute, we have decided that there are more concerns with merit point spell limitations, so we will be removing the merit point spells similar to other jobs.

no problem, the Devs have killed RDM anyway.

Kaisha

04-28-2012, 04:04 AM

For the millionth time, when the heck are we going to get some word on Blue Mage getting their trigger spell list cut short to alleviate their downtime during a Voidwatch battle?

Daniel_Hatcher

04-28-2012, 04:18 AM

For the millionth time, when the heck are we going to get some word on Blue Mage getting their trigger spell list cut short to alleviate their downtime during a Voidwatch battle?

Apparently never.

RDM and NIN have there's removed with BLU's more or less being told "Tough!"

hideka

04-28-2012, 05:22 AM

seriously i dont have a blu that can push 4k CDCs just so i can get stuck freaking swapping spells the entire fight

Gokku

04-28-2012, 05:54 AM

seriously i dont have a blu that can push 4k CDCs just so i can get stuck freaking swapping spells the entire fight

yes you do

Fredjan

04-28-2012, 07:16 AM

Expected as much, indeed.

I've come to expect disappointment when it comes to RDM. SCH saw the same treatment with helix spells being available subbed, and now Red Mage'll offer nothing unique to Voidwatch, this'll basically kill any reason to bring one. The only reason people are bringing SCH main to some VW runs is because of Embrava and nothing else (especially for Provenance). It's either that or they're asking Red Mages to /SCH (or the occasional BLM/SCH request, not that I mind in either way), from what I've seen on my server.

Tashan

04-28-2012, 10:50 AM

yes you do

I lol'd at that.

Guys they already commented on Blue Mage timer ages ago. SE are not considering it at all, people just keep asking.

Reduce or get rid of the penalty incurred after setting blue magic spells.
The concept is that you acquire blue magic spells via learning and then you can change battle strategies by picking and choosing spells within the blue magic spell points and set limitations. If you were able to change spells freely, the whole battle strategy aspect would be lost, so we have no plans to remove/reduce the penalty.

Add an ability that allows you to use cast blue magic spells that are not currently set.
We tried looking into this, but it would make having to set spells beforehand nearly pointless, so we will be putting this idea on the back burner for now.

SpankWustler

04-28-2012, 12:07 PM

Guys they already commented on Blue Mage timer ages ago. SE are not considering it at all, people just keep asking.

I see their point. Really, it's only an issue in Voidwatch.

Changing a major element of the Blue Magic system just to deal with the wretchedness of Blue Magic Voidwatch procs seems like setting the whole house on fire just to get rid of your roommate's odd-smelling and opiate-addicted sister who has established herself on the couch. Much too much, particularly when there's really only one problem in only one place.

Of course, this doesn't mean nothing should be set on fire or changed. Much like an old hand-me-down camp stove that somebody has deposited right next to the couch could just fall over entirely by accident and solve a lot of problems while causing a lot of terrible burns, the ludicrous number of Voidwatch procs could be reduced just as the already-smaller number of Abyssea procs were reduced.

I think maybe this metaphor got away from me a little. I seem to have forgotten my point entirely and I am now deeply curious about the accuracy of several Wikipedia articles pertaining to kerosene and the American legal system.

Daniel_Hatcher

04-28-2012, 04:06 PM

I lol'd at that.

Guys they already commented on Blue Mage timer ages ago. SE are not considering it at all, people just keep asking.

I can't see since Camate posted who said to reduce the timer, The list of spells for weakness, yes! but not the timer.

They'll never reduce the timer unless they block out traits temporarily on spell change.

Longshot

04-29-2012, 02:47 AM

Hardly anyone does Tavnazia or Aht Urhgan VW on our server, would it be possible to add crafting materials such as Staghorn Coral and Penelope's Cloth to any Provenance loot pools?

Zirael

04-29-2012, 03:56 PM

Happy Friday everyone!

After looking into everyone’s feedback[...]
Blue mage having 31 possible random weakness spells whilst being able to set only 20 at a time is very serious issue. Not to mention not being able to set ANY damage/trait spells if they want to reach a ~50% chance of having a required spell. You need two fully gimped BLU to cover all blue magic weaknesses, which in case of some battles (Botulus Rex, Provenance Watcher) is not realistic and unacceptable.
Repeating this again what has been already in case this feedback was missed.

• Red Mage
While there is a concern that red mages would lose the ability to exploit weaknesses that only they can execute, we have decided that there are more concerns with merit point spell limitations, so we will be removing the merit point spells similar to other jobs.

Vision
Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements, while rendering once-formidable enemies impotent with enfeebling magic.

We want to see red mages play a more vital role in HNM battles by making enfeebling magic more effective against high-level notorious monsters and their legendary levels of resistance as well as allowing them to better contribute to party member enhancement.
Example Adjustments

Adding abilities that reduce to zero the casting time or recast time for the next spell/ninjutsu/song.
New enfeebling magic spells.

How ironic... :(

Quetzacoatl

05-02-2012, 03:20 PM

Can Square Enix AT LEAST lower the drop rate on Crystal Petrifacts? We don't need more cockblocks in Voidwatch as is.

Neisan_Quetz

05-02-2012, 08:31 PM

Petrifacts aren't blocking anything but logs.

Demon6324236

05-04-2012, 02:58 AM

Honestly I think the petrifact idea was poor anyways, its not what it should have been from my understanding, I have not actualy done the final battle yet so idk, but from how I understand it the 3 fights to get the KIs with 100% are what you need the crystals for, then you need the 3 KIs for going into the final fight, meaning if you have the cruor, crystals arnt actualy needed at all what-so-ever...

My VW drops shouldnt be filled with something like that with no worth other than trading in for an item to do a fight I dont HAVE to do for the final fight anyways, not to mention the fact that while these pile up in your sack/satchel/safe/storage/locker/invintory you have STACKS doing nothing but sitting there till you can get through T6 and do the quests to drop them off, or just lose them all which means they were a waste to get from your VW fights in the 1st place.

If this is the system they wanted it should have been able to drop them off somewhere (Voidwatcher Officers maybe?) so they arnt taking up space till you can actualy get T6 finished for Jeuno. I do VW alot however my gf doesnt like it much so I dont move on in quests without her, I think it wrong I have to hold on to my 6 stacks of Crystal Petrifacts till the day we beat T6 though.

Having them isnt such a big deal to me I just wish it didnt take up a spot something worth money could have, even a log has some worth, where as a petrifact might be nothing to me, either droping it, or keeping it for months with no use.

Quetzacoatl

05-05-2012, 12:49 PM

For the millionth time, when the heck are we going to get some word on Blue Mage getting their trigger spell list cut short to alleviate their downtime during a Voidwatch battle?

Also, this needs serious addressing. If we can't get the timer reduced, then the least we can do is get an answer about cutting down BLU's spell list in Voidwatch. Seriously, the speed at which this issue is being put into question is terribly slow. It doesn't take 6 or so months to get an answer about this, Square. It really doesn't. It's for this reason that I've started to reserve my BLU for outside anything Voidwatch, and that really hurts my job utility if I STILL have those same issues. No more excuses Square- what are you doing about Blue Mage's Spell List for Voidwatch Weaknesses?

Trisscar

05-05-2012, 01:05 PM

Also, this needs serious addressing. If we can't get the timer reduced, then the least we can do is get an answer about cutting down BLU's spell list in Voidwatch. Seriously, the speed at which this issue is being put into question is terribly slow. It doesn't take 6 or so months to get an answer about this, Square. It really doesn't. It's for this reason that I've started to reserve my BLU for outside anything Voidwatch, and that really hurts my job utility if I STILL have those same issues. No more excuses Square- what are you doing about Blue Mage's Spell List for Voidwatch Weaknesses?
Bump. Because I no longer offer BLU outside of my shell on logwatch, and even then I beg off of BLU. Someone wants me to stun tank AV? I'm all there. Someone wants me to be BLU on logwatch? They can keep on dreaming.

Camate

05-11-2012, 06:18 AM

Hello!

As we have finally reached the final chapter for Voidwatch, starting with the upcoming version update we will be implementing adjustments focusing on making this content more enjoyable.

Adjustment content

Upcoming version update (scheduled for mid-May)

Adjustments to drop rates and number of drops from Provenance Watcher
Crystal Petrifact stack quantity increased from 12 to 99

Next version update

Application of the weakness system of the final chapter to all the other chapters
Implementation of ticket system for specific items
Implementation of a system where weakening monsters is possible through paying a fee (Excluding the final chapter)

　
Objective
As I mentioned at the top, we will be making this content more enjoyable, but to go into a bit more detail on this, the idea is centralized around those who are coming in late and did not do this content as it came out with everyone as well as those players who cannot log in during peak times.

Specifically, we are planning to increase the options to counter situations such as not being able to participate when there is a shout due to progression issues, lacking members to defeat a monster, and the strong desire to obtain a certain item.

This post was intended to serve as an outline for the adjustments and the objective behind them, but we will be bringing you specific details for each adjustment in the near future.

detlef

05-11-2012, 06:49 AM

Application of the weakness system of the final chapter to all the other chapters
Implementation of ticket system for specific items
Can you go into a little more detail on the ticket system? When you say specific items, is it something along the lines of obtaining a ticket (such as a Mekira Meikogai ticket) if you have the item in your possession? Has the number of tickets required in order to obtain the item still in the range of 6 as you had mentioned before?

MarkovChain

05-11-2012, 06:57 AM

Sounds good, the ultimate goal is meteor for 1M gil. Will this affect dross/cinder availability ? I hope so.

Phafi

05-11-2012, 07:33 AM

Specifically, we are planning to increase the options to counter situations such as not being able to participate when there is a shout due to progression issues

why are people who didn't do progression being rewarded?

Kiyara

05-11-2012, 07:39 AM

These changes seem good. I look foward to them. I actually like the fact SE is noticing people aren't always able to have 18 people to defeat the mobs. It should be doable with less.

Luvbunny

05-11-2012, 09:24 AM

Thank you, awesome changes it seems, keep up the good work on focusing on contents that is accessible and enjoyable and not locking out the majority of the players to be able to experience it. Thanks again!! Very much needed, and great to hear these amazing things coming in the next update.

Siiri

05-11-2012, 09:45 AM

why are people who didn't do progression being rewarded?

That is just the way these types of games are. A lot of us can say the same about doing the original COP and other stuff as well. My ls has taken returners etc back through clears, and it can be hard to get people to help. I wish the ticketing was implemented this update though, I don't care how they do it. It is ridiculous the way certain people get body over body drops and I am like 0/2000 on any decent drop. I almost believe it is IP based.

SMD111

05-11-2012, 10:59 AM

That is just the way these types of games are. A lot of us can say the same about doing the original COP and other stuff as well. My ls has taken returners etc back through clears, and it can be hard to get people to help. I wish the ticketing was implemented this update though, I don't care how they do it. It is ridiculous the way certain people get body over body drops and I am like 0/2000 on any decent drop. I almost believe it is IP based.

in all the VW i have done and i have only gotten logs

Llana_Virren

05-11-2012, 11:11 AM

That is just the way these types of games are. A lot of us can say the same about doing the original COP and other stuff as well. My ls has taken returners etc back through clears, and it can be hard to get people to help. I wish the ticketing was implemented this update though, I don't care how they do it. It is ridiculous the way certain people get body over body drops and I am like 0/2000 on any decent drop. I almost believe it is IP based.

Blue proc...
Red Proc...
Yellow Proc...
...JP proc?

Nala

05-11-2012, 03:07 PM

So this whole buy an item to force weakness, this going to be like those special items from CoP, Snoll Tzar fight, Ultima/Omega airship fight type items that can force weakness's?

Also i would like to know if the dev team have revised their vision for the ticket system yet, last i heard your concept of a ticket system was half baked.

Edit: funny just as we predicted after dealing with their crappy vision for VW thus far it becomes such a big deal that they make semi reasonable refinements, its like when you beat a dog by kicking it with steel toe boots for 365 days then deciding you're just going to spank him with an open palm instead.

Dragoy

05-11-2012, 06:49 PM

To be fair, they have mentioned before that they will lower the “difficulty” level for new content after a while so making Voidwatch more accessible, or rather doable, was to be expected.

Luvbunny

05-12-2012, 12:30 AM

Yes, so in essence, leave new content untouched till they "adjust" or lower the difficulty that it can become enjoyable and the norm, meaning the hardcore and those looking for "challenge" will get their fix, then then content is adjusted for everyone to enjoy. Which means, you can take 6-8 months break and when you come back, the game will feel better already :) It's like how the movie industry works, for first release, you gotta pay, 6 months later is on dvd, a year later on cable.

Asymptotic

05-12-2012, 03:35 AM

Voidwatch is so hard.

FrankReynolds

05-12-2012, 06:14 AM

why are people who didn't do progression being rewarded?

Because they are smart?

MarkovChain

05-12-2012, 08:40 AM

because beside meteor everything is garbage

Nala

05-12-2012, 09:39 AM

eh the helm for prov watcher isn't bad especially if you can get the F100 askar body (cant remember the set name off the top my head)

Tsukino_Kaji

05-12-2012, 12:09 PM

because beside meteor everything is garbageSo much whm hate.

MarkovChain

05-12-2012, 08:26 PM

Yeah sorry, I forgot to say that arise is useless,at least not worth 40M (maybe 500k). Thought it was obvious. But if people are ready to pay 40M for it, that's cool, but in this case you do VW for money not for items.

Transmit

05-12-2012, 09:52 PM

Tsukino_Kaji

05-13-2012, 02:52 AM

As much as I love the changes to the weakness procs, why are BLU procs still being ignored? SE acknowledged that BLU had way too many proc's to set and reset time and time again, and yet they aren't being adjusted while jobs like NIN, who I've never heard complain about San procs, are.Nin complain all the time and the non-nin clamplain ever more when the nin they bring doesn't have them. Appearently people are too stupid to merit them. Nin should not be adjusted in VW just because people are unwilling to merit San so they can have an extra 4% expertise, just so they can save a minimal ammount of gil on a rare occasion.

Nala

05-13-2012, 07:48 AM

thats an additional 4% on top of +2 koga hands and yonin, and i would 5/5 it if it weren't for VW vs any relivant endgame mob san's are just a lower recast sange in terms of utility.

MarkovChain

05-13-2012, 08:01 AM

As much as I love the changes to the weakness procs, why are BLU procs still being ignored?
1 Monk 10.03% ↑（6）
2 Warrior 9.18% ↑（5）
3 White Mage 7.78% ↓（1）
4 Black Mage 7.60% ↓（3）
5 Thief 7.29% ↓（4）
6 Red Mage 7.19% ↓（2）
7 Ninja 5.43% ↑（8）
8 Dancer 4.34% ↑（13）
9 Beastmaster 4.09% ↑（15）
10 Summoner 4.03% ↑（16）
11 Samurai 4.01% ↓（9）
12 Dark Knight 3.87% ↓（11）
13 Paladin 3.83% ↓（7）
14 Ranger 3.74% ↑（17）
15 Bard 3.59% ↓（10）
16 Dragoon 3.44% ↓（12）
17 Blue Mage 3.23% ↓（14）
18 Scholar 2.69% →
19 Corsair 2.54% ↑（20）
20 Puppetmaster 2.10% ↓（19）

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/10/2.html

Transmit

05-13-2012, 08:28 AM

Still, SCH and PUP both had specfic changes to their VW weaknesses.

Nala

05-13-2012, 01:04 PM

And you think thats a valid reason why Blu shouldn't have their proc's adjusted? that in fact should be all the more reason why, considering not only does it take more then 1 blue to cover all spells with out resetting but that also means your blu's are sacrificing job traits and damage spells, no other job is forced to cut their own legs off for procs like blu does.

Imoq

05-13-2012, 04:16 PM

I am sure this has been mentioned ad nauseam but a quick fix to BLU would be to have one spell of each element, like Abyssea; that way you only need to bring 1 BLU and still have some points to set offensive/support spells. Not really hard to fix.

Byrth

05-13-2012, 04:34 PM

Also, 5/5 Ninja Tool Expertise increases the proc rate to 25%, not 4%.

Tsukino_Kaji

05-14-2012, 04:33 AM

The point is, is that the extra 5% for the sole purpose of trying to save yourself pocket change is costing you an ability all together. That 5% is pointless in that regards. 4/5 and 1/5 x6 doesn't hurt you and benefits everyone else.

Camate

05-17-2012, 10:35 AM

Greetings!

Here is a follow-up from Mizuki Ito in regards to Voidwatch adjustments.

Hello, Ito here!

I would like to reveal which adjustments (from the proposed adjustments in the previous post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22046-Voidwatch-Final-Chapter?p=313728&viewfull=1#post313728)) we plan on implementing in the next update.

Please read through this when you have some time to spare, since it’s rather long.

Objectives
As stated in my previous post, the overall goal is to make the game easier to play. We are also focusing heavily on addressing some critical issues.
We will add more ways to overcome situations such as:

“There are shouts for content, but I can’t participate because I haven’t progressed enough.”
“I am trying everything I can, but I can’t defeat the enemy. Only if I had 1 or 2 more party members…”
“I really want this item!”

caused by the following issues:
-Players were late to participate in content during its peak time
-Players are unable to log in during peak hours
　
Apply the weakness system which is currently only used in the final chapter to all routes
Based on feedback regarding the battle in the final chapter, we will apply the following adjustments to all routes.

Opponent’s attack/magic attack is reduced by triggering weakness
Elimination/addition/consolidation of weaknesses triggers
Change weakness triggers for jug pets and automatons to all special abilities.

※The 3rd category is currently not applied to the final chapter
　
Ticket system for specific items
Players are frustrated with the fact that players are unable to give away duplicate items to other players who want the item. As such, we have come up with a way to give players who were unable to obtain the item a better chance.
　

Eligible items
The following are the eligible items:

Mextli Harness/Anhur Robe/Fazheluo Radiant Mail/Toci’s Harness/Heka’s Kalasiris/Mekira Meikogai/Murasamemaru/Aytanri/Ephemeron/Coruscanti/Asteria/Borealis/Delphinius

There are 2 reasons these items were chosen:
1. All other gear items are relatively easy to obtain, so we would like players to obtain these items on their own.
2. The more items that can be ticketed, the more inventory congestion becomes a problem.
　
Ticketing

Ticketing can only be performed when items are taken out of the personal treasure box
When ticketing occurs, the character who is ticketing is announced and the ticket goes to the loot pool
Tickets are different for each type of gear
To obtain items via tickets, 3 of the same type of ticket must be turned in
Tickets cannot be traded to other players

We separated tickets into different types to avoid players only farming areas with the easiest monsters to defeat or obtaining items from NMs that would not usually drop them.

Initially, we were considering allowing tickets to be traded or sold, but if this was implemented, tickets would be used for profit rather than to help other players. Since this does not fall in line with our original objective, in order to make it so tickets easily go to those players who really want an item and continuously participate, we have decided to allow only the members who participate in battle to transfer tickets.

To compensate, we were able to significantly reduce the number of necessary tickets to exchange for equipment and have set the number stated above.

Additionally, by having a the system announce that someone created a ticket, the player who created the ticket can then easily notify other members that they are free to lot on it or chose who to give it to.
　
Implementation of a system where weakening monsters is possible through paying a fee (Excluding the final chapter)
In order to aid those players to get past portions of content they are stuck on and also to make it possible to take on these battles with fewer party members, we will be implementing the below.

Enfeebling items can be purchase with gil.
Item purchases will be limited to a one-time use for a given period of time.
It will be possible to stack enfeeble items.
It will not be possible to trade enfeeble items to other players.
Enfeeble items need to be traded to the Planar Rift prior to Voidwatch battles and converted into a key item.
It will be possible to possess multiple key items.
Whether you want to enfeeble the monster will be selectable when spawning the monster.
If you choose to enfeeble the monster, the level of enfeebling can be selected.
Enfeebling reduces the level of the monster.
The amount of levels that can be lowered on a monster via key items will change based on zone.

We do not plan on making the cost for these enfeeble items extremely high. While it won’t be at a level of extreme ease either, we plan on making it somewhat in the middle.

There will also be limitations on the number purchasable in a given amount of time and though it will be slightly on the expensive side, there will not be any other different effects attributed to these items such as drop rate enhancements, etc.
By using multiple enfeeble items at the same time, it will be possible to lower the level of the monster and it will be possible to defeat the earlier chapter monsters with less than a single party.

We’ve set the items in this way in order to prevent making it critical to have for battles and also to prevent extremely efficient parties from battling the same monsters over and over again.

The above are the plans and adjustment planned scheduled for next version update.

We will first be implementing this on the test server and then perform the actual version update.
After this is complete, we will continue to make adjustments based on play conditions and feedback.

Tsukino_Kaji

05-17-2012, 10:57 AM

So is it saying that people that already have the gear need to be "ticketed" so the can pass the item to the treasure pool or is it saying that tickets are drops automatically are added to the party's treasure pool?
Can you chose to not add your ticket to the pool?

pancakesandsx

05-17-2012, 11:14 AM

Nala

05-17-2012, 11:51 AM

eh so ace's mail is fairly common? i've had no luck so far...

detlef

05-17-2012, 12:22 PM

So it sounds like the ticketing system is useless for pick-up groups because there's no way to enforce who is able to lot said ticket once it enters the treasure pool. Killer.

What happens if you drop from the ally and pt up with the person you wish to give the ticket to? Is that the only way to ensure 100% that it goes to the right person?

Kaisha

05-17-2012, 12:46 PM

Do the devs not realize people who already have the body drop from a desired NM will very likely not waste any more stones on them?

Also can't wait for all the posts complaining how people only want COR/BRD/WHM + Emp 2hand DDs only for VW when that update hits since the strategy will turn from partial zerg while looking for procs, to just full-out zerg from the start, using enfeebling items to stagger when required.

Raksha

05-17-2012, 01:02 PM

It's more than we had before, so hopefully it will work out better than we all know it will.

#eternaloptimist

Mahoro

05-17-2012, 02:25 PM

Do the devs not realize people who already have the body drop from a desired NM will very likely not waste any more stones on them?

The incentive to use stones is the biggest problem, yeah. I can think of a few ways I can get people in my LS to use stones to help out the person looking for the item tickets (i.e., DKP bonuses), but this system is definitely not suited to PUGs because you generally would not join a PUG unless you wanted the item yourself.

Tile

05-17-2012, 02:27 PM

Helel

05-17-2012, 04:40 PM

Tickets really should just be based off the mob and not the item, I think my 30+ Lux Pugio is equal ot a Coruscanti.

Also since final Void watch doesn't use rift will the weakness items be unusable there?

Read. It's even in bold for you.

This system just seems odd to me. Why should I be rewarded with 1/3 of an item because someone in my alliance currently has it (and just got it in their box)? It would be beneficial to find as many people with the item to come with you now.

I'm not complaining; it's better than nothing. Just seems like a really odd way of rewarding players. The nyzul route makes more sense with KIs per kill to turn in for the item of your choice. Why not do the same for VW?

Rezeak

05-17-2012, 05:50 PM

Initially, we were considering allowing tickets to be traded or sold, but if this was implemented, tickets would be used for profit rather than to help other players

What they should of said......

Initially, we were considering making tickets ex and placed in the treasure pool, but if this was implemented, people would be less likely to go back to VWs they have already have the gear from making it harder for those who have not obtained the gear yet to make groups. This way even a seasoned verteran will always have a reason to repeat VW.

SpankWustler

05-17-2012, 06:33 PM

And now, crawling on five arm-like appendages from that nightmare you keep having about your dead fiance and Robin Williams, here's the Voidwatch Ticket System!

Treading stone-faced from the remains of a burnt house to inform you that everyone you love died painfully in the flames rather than just peacefully passing out from smoke inhalation, it's the Voidwatch Ticket System!

Lurking in the public camping grounds near your house and often coming around to watch you pee, that's the Voidwatch Ticket System!

MarkovChain

05-17-2012, 07:32 PM

Insaniac

05-17-2012, 11:39 PM

1. All other gear items are relatively easy to obtain, so we would like players to obtain these items on their own.The items people get 2-3 of while they are trying to get the stuff that never drops are the only ones this ticket system would have been useful for. And please tell me again how Ganesha's Mala is easy to obtain when I'm 0/60+.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/7/71/71b14a93_jackie-chan-meme_thumb7.png

Phafi

05-17-2012, 11:44 PM

When introducing the Provenance weakness system, does that include not requiring lights (or just auto capping the lights, to keep cells relevant) that we would be able to just kill the NM without staggering if we had the ability too? (Celaeno is really weak)

Sparthos

05-18-2012, 02:02 AM

It means removing the retarded procs in normal VW (wyvern breaths, specific automaton ws) with the more streamlined set (like one proc per avatar)

Vivivivi

05-18-2012, 02:47 AM

This ticket system is fundamentally broken.

Let's say I'm collecting tickets for a mextli harness for some reason. I'm 2/3 on tickets, and finally the harness shows up in my box. Now I'm stuck with these 2 tickets I can't give to anyone else, and they are essentially wasted. Why would you implement a system like this? Nobody wants this.

Can't please everyone. I think the proposed system is a welcome idea. Typically when doing 4 pops of any vw mob, usually at least 1 person gets the coveted item (or already has it), I'd much rather fight Akvan a dozen times knowing it's likely that I could obtain the body piece, rather than about 50 or 60 (I've lost count) and still never gotten it.

If everyone was walking around with all the gear from VW it wouldn't seem as special imo.

Insaniac

05-18-2012, 03:09 AM

Can't please everyone. I think the proposed system is a welcome idea. Typically when doing 4 pops of any vw mob, usually at least 1 person gets the coveted item (or already has it), I'd much rather fight Akvan a dozen times knowing it's likely that I could obtain the body piece, rather than about 50 or 60 (I've lost count) and still never gotten it.

If everyone was walking around with all the gear from VW it wouldn't seem as special imo.If you think you're going to see 3 tickets hit the loot pool in 12 akvans you're out of your mind. The issue with the system is that people don't do VWNMs that they don't need items from. There's pretty much no reaosn for them to. So why would people even be in the alliance that are capable of getting tickets unless they got it earlier in the same run?

Siiri

05-18-2012, 03:21 AM

I try not to post just to be negative, but the implementation of the ticketing system is horrible. As was stated, there are no reason for people to do a VWNM they have the body from in a pickup setting. The pickup group is normally comprised of most people going for same drops. Those who are willing to help a friend and already have the drop, or want their friend to get it, will have to put the ticket up for free lot to an alliance, not an individual trade. I really don't think this could have been implemented worse if they tried.

Insaniac

05-18-2012, 03:28 AM

Even in an LS setting how many people are going to to be willing to use stones/cells on VWNMs they need nothing from just for a miniscule chance to get someone 1/3 of a body?

Siiri

05-18-2012, 04:01 AM

Even in an LS setting how many people are going to to be willing to use stones/cells on VWNMs they need nothing from just for a miniscule chance to get someone 1/3 of a body?

Exactly, I am a bit odd in that I love mages. ( I love my DD too) I really want Heka's and there are 3 or 4 people I know with them who were willing to help me when the ticketing came out. This is just too stupid to ask though now. I think I will forget VW drops.

Mindi

05-18-2012, 04:10 AM

this is kinda the worst they could make out of the ticket idea...........

why is it so bad if ppl would make some profit while doing VW runs when they dont need anything else from it? This would keep it alive! But changinging the 1st system they came up with (need 5-6, can trade) to this.. they can keep their tickets. I am not hopeing to lot against 12-15 other random shout ppl for a 1/3 drop.... And my friends couldnt even really help me with it cause there will be allways some ppl who just lot on the item in pool, even when the optainer said x-person would get it from him..

They add Final chapter procsystem to all other chapters, add the treasure pool aswell and keep your tickets where they are. I rather lot 1 finished body every 30 runs then lotting on a 1/3 piece.

Sargent

05-18-2012, 05:34 AM

When Couruscanti and the like drop once in a Blue Moon (talking Earth, not Vana'diel), you expect people to:
a) already have this drop to give the ticket away and;
b) someone to wait patiently for this to happen 3 times?

Good luck.

Even for Bodies, which are a better drop rate (still a horrific drop rate mind), you'd still need to find 3 instances where people get a second body and then win the lot 3 times. On Jeuno T3s this isn't too bad since they drop plates, but on City T4s... no one even does those/uses stones on those unless they want the drops.

Smokesalot

05-18-2012, 06:23 AM

Let's say I'm collecting tickets for a mextli harness for some reason. I'm 2/3 on tickets, and finally the harness shows up in my box. Now I'm stuck with these 2 tickets I can't give to anyone else, and they are essentially wasted. Why would you implement a system like this? Nobody wants this.

Second reply after post, hits the nail on the head.

Even better; you're 2/3 on tickets, one pops up in pool, and you get outlotted by someone else. Person who out-lotted you then gets the piece in the next chest.

Raksha

05-18-2012, 06:33 AM

It wont be so bad for coruscanti, because qilin can drop pouches. But akvan can only drop singles, so no one is going to spam it for hmps.

ShadowViper

05-18-2012, 08:11 AM

Yeah the system should of been a mix trophy/ticket like system with different tiers of tickets per type of rare/ex. The reason for tickets is the ticket itself would be for a specific NM and then have tiers like gold/silver/bronze depending on the qulaity of the item. Then have a value for the rare/ex item. At the end have a choice of whether or not to pull the ticket.

The biggest problem with the coming system is what if you dont want items listed, then your not being helped at all. As for some items not as rare as others, this is a matter of perception. I have done over 100 kaggen, got the body in the few pops - w/o having a job that could use it, I continued doing the nm because I wanted the belt. In all those runs I have dropped 2 bodies and still no belt. Yes the ticket system would help someone else who needed the body but how am i going to get help with this system for the belt since it still can't be given to me or even "ticketed".

And the other issue like mentioned before is the 2/3 then you get the item, so now you have these wasted tickets. And really from what I have seen thats the biggest complaint about VW is WASTE, because of all the rare/ex that is trashed because of dublicates, the above system only addressses a small portion of that.

Also this system only gives a partial reason to help on SOME of the VWNMs leaving out most. With a tieried ticket system per NM it would be easier to find help on a larger variety of VWNMS. As for the exhange of tickets have that done at the rift where only the popped nms tickets can be used.

Insaniac

05-18-2012, 08:28 AM

It wont be so bad for coruscanti, because qilin can drop pouches. But akvan can only drop singles, so no one is going to spam it for hmps. Find me 3 people across all servers who have gotten 2 Coruscanti.

Demon6324236

05-18-2012, 11:48 AM

The way it should have been is simple, just make it where when you kill a NM you get tickets based on the amount of certain lights, such as for instance, you have Blue capped, thats 350, for every 100 light you get 1 ticket, so thats 3 tickets for that kill, if you use cells, then 500, so 5 tickets, these tickets are exchanged at the same spots you would pop the NM the tickets are for.

Tickets would be for each NM, meaning if you kill Akvan, you get Akvan tickets, upon spending these tickets you get an item based on the number you spend. The more rare the item the more you must spend to obtain it. For instance, bodys would be say 100 tickets, so that at least 20 fights against a NM must be done for you to get it via tickets.

This system would mean that you do not have to have the item already, you are not lotting against others (which I would think is the entire reason for how VWs drops are setup even, seeing how it makes lotting against others impossible which is completely different than any other time!) and you can get your item for sure in time, or if your lucky, you get it faster.

The amounts could be changed of course, if 20 kills seems to small for a body (probably does to some due to the ease of 20 kills and the rapid increase of the amount of these rare items being gotten) then it could be something more like 500 tickets, meaning at least 100 kills for a garanty of your item. Either way this system would work much better imo.

With this system your asking people to fight NMs of which they get no benefit from other than items you already claim are easy to get, or at least easier, which tells me you think its easy to get a belt from Kaggen, yet you expect me to get 2 or more Bodys from it first!