Skill

[Glamdring]

OK, I harp on this all the time, but I'm tired of people with no skills. Seriously, I might as well be partying with a level 30 as with so many people's level 90s now. Hard to believe people take pride in having useless jobs end-game; personally I wouldn't even put up my seek flag for anything other than a skill-up party.

I suggest you INCREASE the damage penalty, decrease the chances of a defensive skill proc, decrease the efficiency of cures and such, and increase the resist rates to magic proportional to the difference between a player's skill and the skill cap for their level, however, make the use of any still yield as much hate as if the skill was fully capped.

Maybe then the right players would die first in end-game and we could sort out the slow learners from the fast based on who can take a hint!

Honestly, offensive skill is easy to do now if you just take the time and effort; defensive skills are supposed to be fixed down the road, but they'll probably do it faster if more people are screaming about how their 90s are dying too much.

[Musahashi]

I like your post. I wish more people would begin to realize this.

Just to clarify for the non believers.

Level cap = Raises the potential of your job by lifting skill limits.
Skill Level = Achieves the potential offered by increasing the effectiveness of your skills.

So in short, level doesn't mean anything, skill does. Thumbs up :D

[Denabond]

When you say defensive skill, ill just assume you mean Evasion Shield Parry and Guarding skill. Evasion itself is easy to cap, so I highly doubt ppl really have that underlvled (and if they are underlvled, then the fact that thier not dodgeing attacks because of the lack of skill is killing them already). Shield skill only really applies to Plds, and since they are already tanks, they will probably be capping that easily as well. And as for Parrying and Guard, there base proc rate is so low on mobs that matter that if SE took it out of the game, not that many ppl would notice the difference.

[Glamdring]

When you say defensive skill, ill just assume you mean Evasion Shield Parry and Guarding skill. Evasion itself is easy to cap, so I highly doubt ppl really have that underlvled (and if they are underlvled, then the fact that thier not dodgeing attacks because of the lack of skill is killing them already). Shield skill only really applies to Plds, and since they are already tanks, they will probably be capping that easily as well. And as for Parrying and Guard, there base proc rate is so low on mobs that matter that if SE took it out of the game, not that many ppl would notice the difference.

No, when someone went 30-90 in a week, their skills will all be subpar... to the tune of several hundred. Skill is NOT that fast in abyssea. the stupid part s that some of the leeching people have jobs that could work on SOME of thier skills . The specific instance I speak of is the 90 blm invited to a pick-up party I was in about 12 days ago, his elemental magic skill was 128. Seriously? You're going to show up to a 90 party with 128 in your job's primary skill?

And yes, I am referring to the defensive skills you reference, plus enhancing , healing, and divine magic. These are hard enough to skill for someone who is straight-leveling unless they solo the whole way up, when you essentially PL your character all the way to 90 while you AFK they are going to be miserable.

[Denabond]

No, when someone went 30-90 in a week, their skills will all be subpar... to the tune of several hundred. Skill is NOT that fast in abyssea. the stupid part s that some of the leeching people have jobs that could work on SOME of thier skills . The specific instance I speak of is the 90 blm invited to a pick-up party I was in about 12 days ago, his elemental magic skill was 128. Seriously? You're going to show up to a 90 party with 128 in your job's primary skill?

And yes, I am referring to the defensive skills you reference, plus enhancing , healing, and divine magic. These are hard enough to skill for someone who is straight-leveling unless they solo the whole way up, when you essentially PL your character all the way to 90 while you AFK they are going to be miserable.
Keep in mind my post was referring to on how easy it is to cap Evasion and Shield. Evasion is probably the easiest skill to cap in this game, since you can get skill ups on that while getting hit. And why bring up elemental magic skill when what your asking for is ppl taking more damage when those 2 skills are lower? Unless your saying if any of your skills are uncapped, then you should take additional damage, it shouldn't matter. And if you are saying that, then that will mean both most rdms and schs should take more damage cause most don't have divine magic skill capped because they dont have any divine magic to skill with. Yeah they can /whm, but still they should waste their time skilling something that they will rarely ever use?

[Yugl]

Level cap = Raises the potential of your job by lifting skill limits.
Skill Level = Achieves the potential offered by increasing the effectiveness of your skills.


So basically, you want the game how it already is?

[Simian]

I believe what the original post was aiming at is those that use the Abyssea leech method to level jobs but do not worry about leveling the skills that job has to be near equivalent of the job level. Ex. level 90 WAR with weapons skilled at level 30.

Admittedly, I have done the fast track for my WAR. I went from 30 to 75 in two days. I needed a place for merits. I stopped at that point and have been skilling every weapon my WAR can use. And in that process, I have skilled up my npc to max level and halfway to cap, all weapons that my WAR can use are now at a minimum of 180 if not more, only staff, club, dagger and sword were capped at level 75. Now at level 77 only sword is still capped but will not be for long. I am learning to use the Job Abilities as well. Basically, I am learning how to play the job so I can be more than just a red !!! trigger.

[Malamasala]

Seriously, I might as well be partying with a level 30 as with so many people's level 90s now. Hard to believe people take pride in having useless jobs end-game; personally I wouldn't even put up my seek flag for anything other than a skill-up party.

This comment feels extra funny as an old Summoner who played level 37 WHM for years. I'd suggest we implement the Summoning skill system.

Below skill cap = damage penalty
At skill cap = nothing
Over skill cap = damage bonus

Mostly because I think the system sucks, and it would be funny seeing how F rated weapon users have as good accuracy and damage as A rated users. Better we all have wonky mechanics than only Summoner.

[katoplepa]

why SE don't ask an Islamic commission to judge the players who put flag up w/o every skill capped ?

[Orson]

You do realize that everything except healing magic is very important. You are gimp if you don't skill up. People do have a bit of an advantage in abyssea because you don't really need huge skill levels to hit stuff or you can just equip regain atmas. If they ever add more content outside Abyssea the lack of skill will become blatantly obvious.

[DrDelicious]

You do realize that everything except healing magic is very important. You are gimp if you don't skill up. People do have a bit of an advantage in abyssea because you don't really need huge skill levels to hit stuff or you can just equip regain atmas. If they ever add more content outside Abyssea the lack of skill will become blatantly obvious.

and not just from being underskilled. player skill has gone out the window because of atmas. mages that dont know how to conserve mp, melees that blindly WS at the start of fights. "tanks" that dont know how to tank properly, the list goes on. atmas have become a major crutch on the game, and i think the biggest mistake that SE has ever made.

[Harpalina]

and not just from being underskilled. player skill has gone out the window because of atmas. mages that dont know how to conserve mp, melees that blindly WS at the start of fights. "tanks" that dont know how to tank properly, the list goes on. atmas have become a major crutch on the game, and i think the biggest mistake that SE has ever made.

Yeah I admit I spam my WS's as WAR. Being a DD doesn't really require much skill. You hit the mob, you do the damage, and you release your WS. Add in some fun job abilities and that's pretty much a DD's life. In Abyssea, there really is no 'tank'. The mobs (hopefully) die fast enough before you do, otherwise the mages are in for a world of hurt, curing your ass. lol. And yes, Atmas have become a crutch for noob-y players and even I admit I rely on atma a little too heavily. I guess it just depends on what you do with what you have...if that makes any sense <.<

[DrDelicious]

Yeah I admit I spam my WS's as WAR. Being a DD doesn't really require much skill. You hit the mob, you do the damage, and you release your WS. Add in some fun job abilities and that's pretty much a DD's life. In Abyssea, there really is no 'tank'. The mobs (hopefully) die fast enough before you do, otherwise the mages are in for a world of hurt, curing your ass. lol. And yes, Atmas have become a crutch for noob-y players and even I admit I rely on atma a little too heavily. I guess it just depends on what you do with what you have...if that makes any sense <.<

yeah, makes total sense. im just saying that ive seen people playing like they were in abyssea outside, and it was total fail. people rely too much on having +15 refresh and +50 MAB, and melees that dont really know what hate management is. and failtanks. and im not saying im above some of the things im bitching about. i love atmas in abyssea. love em. but im just saying they are gimping people for outside abyssea.

and im sure ill get the lolnonabyssea posts. but you know, theres a whole game outside of those 9 zones, and id love to see people actually use those 90+ zones again, for something

[Harpalina]

yeah, makes total sense. im just saying that ive seen people playing like they were in abyssea outside, and it was total fail. people rely too much on having +15 refresh and +50 MAB, and melees that dont really know what hate management is. and failtanks. and im not saying im above some of the things im bitching about. i love atmas in abyssea. love em. but im just saying they are gimping people for outside abyssea.

and im sure ill get the lolnonabyssea posts. but you know, theres a whole game outside of those 9 zones, and id love to see people actually use those 90+ zones again, for something

I love the old school way of levelling. When I was LVing my WAR in my perma party, I would *never* pull any of the stunts that I pull in Abyssea. IE: What you mentioned earlier about WSing at the start of battle. I know there are several people out there that love the new way to exp, and it's nice seeing the exp freefall like that, but I think the game's become way too easy to get to the max level. It was 'easy' when you fought Greater Colibris when BRDs actually did something in parties. Now the game has become mind-numbingly easy. The air of prestige that high levellers were so often thought of years ago has practically no meaning now. "Oh you have a LV 90 job? Psh. I've got 7."

[chrism]

Dont take out guard or parry they are actually useful >.<

[Xine]

and not just from being underskilled. player skill has gone out the window because of atmas. mages that dont know how to conserve mp, melees that blindly WS at the start of fights. "tanks" that dont know how to tank properly, the list goes on. atmas have become a major crutch on the game, and i think the biggest mistake that SE has ever made.

I think every player who has been on this game pre-abyssea has seen this, esp anyone who has done any sort of endgame ranging from easy stuff like Dynamis to the more complex things like Salvage (back when caps were 75 mind you, now its all a joke at 90.) It would be nice to see some of the Endgame activities like Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage and Einherjar make a come back, not them specifically, but something resembling them and WITHOUT the ability to use Atmas because as everyone here has said time and time again, "Atmas and Abyssea's Cruor buffs have gimped player skill."

Its easy to say "stop playing with noobs" but when 90% of your server is noobs because of Abyssea thats impossible not to do. The older players who had any real knowledge of this game and how to play disappeared BECAUSE of Abyssea and how much easier it is to low man (3-6 man Dynamis, solo-3 man Salvage etc.) and makes the gear they worked years to acquire not all completely useless, but less worth using than they used to be.

I look forward to the new changes they are making in the game but I don't want to see every new form of endgame to come take place in Abyssea cuz its bad enough with the way people play now. Yea sure everyone loves Atmas and wants to see high dmg on everything they do, theres a time and place for everything even to see high damage, and certain situations. Idiots running through.

I think I can speak for the older player base when I say bring back some of the older methods of playing, new methods are nice and all, but face it, without Atmas half the people playing aren't that great at their jobs.

My Warrior sucks cuz I had to leech it in abyssea from 68-90 and its not a job I concentrate on getting gear for, however I've been working on it in spare time to make it fail less. My main jobs are Ninja, Thief, Blue Mage and Black Mage, no I have no Empy weapons (mainly cuz theres nobody online I know anymore that aren't abyssea burned fail, or cuz of people blocking me and what few friends I do have from killing the NMs) so I would like to see some new ways for Empy weapons to be obtained, the multi-pop NM idea sounds great, 5 Gukumatz's up at once for ppl to spam claim instead of fighting 10 other groups bot claiming 1 spawn as soon as it pops is the biggest headache I can think of next to having to farm up 150-200mil for a relic/mythic.

[Harpalina]

Abyssea is great, but FFXI has lost the charm it used to have back in the pre-ToAU days. I actually miss the days of seeking for a party in Garlaige Citadel and Yhoator Jungle. Hell, I even miss the Dunes! It's an extremely depressing sight to see Dunes so vacant now...I hardly recognize it. It's great to be able to solo so well now, but I hate how the game's on "Fast and Easy" mode now =\

[Orson]

and not just from being underskilled. player skill has gone out the window because of atmas. mages that dont know how to conserve mp, melees that blindly WS at the start of fights. "tanks" that dont know how to tank properly, the list goes on. atmas have become a major crutch on the game, and i think the biggest mistake that SE has ever made.

I think you're oversimplifying. It's not that people don't know how to conserve mp it's just you don't have to. On that note you play that out like a bad thing. It's not really that fun to be a blm having to rest every 4-6 nukes like you did in the past. The only negative I see is that support jobs have become a bit more vestigial for mages.

As for not needing a tank that wasn't caused by atmas. DD tanking was simply the way the game was moving. The majority of players were using DD tanks on everything and I mean everything. Pld and to a lesser extent War will probably never become the natural go to tank in this game unless SE does something extreme to shift players to use them.

Atma/Cruor buffs have nothing to do with skill at the game. I'm completely talking about weapon and magic skills.

P.S. I've had the misfortune of being stuck helping with a PUG occasionally and I can tell you no amount of atmas/cruor buffs can make up for just being foolish and not doing any research at all.

[DrDelicious]

i will admit that was an oversimplification, and being blm main i do love being able to toss nukes like whoa, i was more referring to any outside of abyssea action. ive even caught myself going crazy outside and reminding myself that i dont have uber refresh. im just stating that atmas are making the player base worse, skill wise. we are getting to used to having them, and its a double edged sword.

[Imole]

Someone mentioned that 90% of there server was noobs because of Abysea. Wrong.
They were alredy noobs you just couldent really tell the difference before abysea because all the gear and merits werethe same. Aby has alowed us to see the vast difference between the noobs and the old school players. IN all honestly I abyburned my RDM. But my WHM was alredy 50+ and my BLM and DRK were alredy 90 with capped skills son all i neededto do was Dia the hell out of some aby mobsand im capped enffebling magic at 90 on RDM.

[Imole]

You do realize that everything except healing magic is very important. You are gimp if you don't skill up. People do have a bit of an advantage in abyssea because you don't really need huge skill levels to hit stuff or you can just equip regain atmas. If they ever add more content outside Abyssea the lack of skill will become blatantly obvious.

Healing magic is Imoprtant if only for WHM atm. Im hoping that SE will implement the same modifiers for cure 4 that they currently have for cure 5. That way PLD's can have better hate control and RDM's can actually main heal in abysea. If they do that it will aleviate the need for RDM's to have cure5 in abysea and wont be game breaking outside of abysea.

[Imole]

Healing magic is Imoprtant if only for WHM atm. Im hoping that SE will implement the same modifiers for cure 4 that they currently have for cure 5. That way PLD's can have better hate control and RDM's can actually main heal in abysea. If they do that it will aleviate the need for RDM's to have cure5 in abysea and wont be game breaking outside of abysea.

Will also make it so PLD and RDM arent being out cured by non native healing jobs such as SMN/WHM and BLM/WHM.

[Panthera]

I think it would be nice if players could go through a "Trial BCM" that tests their skills; how long it takes one to react to an enemy action, and if they take the appropriate action or not. Their score could be viewed by other players.