[dev1101] Please add "Don't get the drop X times, get key item for drop" EVERYWHERE!!

[Alhanelem]

Players who defeat the NMs that spawn on floors 20, 40, 60, 80, and 100 five times will be rewarded with a key item corresponding to that section.
Talking to the NPC Berangere at Aht Urhgan Whitegate (L-9) while in possession of one of those key items will allow players to receive one piece of equipment from a list of possible spoils obtainable in that section.You guys finally got it right. There's only one problem. This only affects Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region.

In the name of 0/100 NM campers/event repeaters everywhere, add this to EVERY EVENT in the game!!! While you're at it, add it to NMs and HNMs too.

Sincerely,
Everyone who's ever gotten their butt kicked by the Random Number Generator

Edit: By the way- No, I don't mean "repeat anything 5 times, get the reward." The number of repeats would be set for each content relative to the amount of time they expect players to spend before succeeding with the RNG.

[Starry]

RNG is great for adding in extra drops/speeding the proccess; but 'tokens' has always been the best system as it's got the feeling of progression. Salavage was the worst(and now VW) as there is 0 progression it's just -- hey hope you get lucky!

[Atomic_Skull]

'tokens' has always been the best system as it's got the feeling of progression.

B.F. Skinner disagrees with you. A randomized reward will actually keep you coming back longer than a scheduled reward.

[Duzell]

B.F. Skinner disagrees with you. A randomized reward will actually keep you coming back longer than a scheduled reward.

Ah but in skinners experements rewards are given frequently at first to enccourage the behavure and then reduced to sporatic rewards, this encouraged the behavure to stick more so than scheduled rewards such as every X number of times. Voidwatch lacks the inital reward phase to encourage the behavure in the first place, otherwise the logic is sound. Quilin is a good example of the skinner method, it has several good common drops and a carrot on a stick to keep you coming back.

[Dragoy]

It's funny, that I was talking about this kind of things with a non-FFXI friend just a while before they announced that adjustment for the "new" Nyzul.

Specifically something like if you defeat a certain monster certain amount of times you will eventually get the reward, with higher chances each kill for example. Perhaps the percentage on the randomness would be altered, perhaps you would need to stay in the area for that to happen (change areas and it re-sets), purrrhaps you would get a 'trophy item' from the monster and you could then trade them to some NPC who is... uhm, interested about that kind of stuff.

The last part already is in game, the Trophies in Heroes of Abyssea areas.

Sure, random in the extent it is in FFXI makes people use more time in general, but it is not balanced in fairness because the rates are so low that it just can't be fair in the ways that someone will get something in 1 or 2 tries while the other goes 50-100 without.

Sure, if both did 100, they might have the same amount, but that's too much and will not ever be fair/fun\challenging.

I doubt this will much change, ever, but a trophy-system of a kind for all the outside Abyssea monsters would be great indeed. Been thinking of proposing this myself as I have thought of it for years but never really thought it could be possible...

But hey, random of a ride it has been, enjoy the final stretch can we?


Just some blah~

[Sfchakan]

I don't like tokens because it makes the rewards feel so insignificant. It's awesome to go 1/1 on something and when you go 1/20 on something, it's great to finally get it. With tokens, you do said event 20 times and that's it. Great, you have the top of the line Body piece. Now what?

Also, RNG gives something for people to keep coming back to. It would suck to have nothing to do with friends in-game once you all have all of the items you want.

tl;dr
Everyone will do event X exactly Y times, get what they want, and then complain there's nothing to do in the game.

[Dragoy]

That will happen eventually no matter what so I don't think randomness is the solution either (which actually in some cases might bring one the reward actually sooner than later).

Then again, I personally haven't played this game for the game for many years, but only for my friends.
What that means is, I do things because of the fun, not solely for the reward.
In even more other words, I try to enjoy the Journey before the Destination.

Thusly, if the event is there for merely a time-sink for us to mindlessly hack on it for the reward and then just quit it, this isn't entertainment any longer, it's something completely different (and yes, I know how true that statement actually is, sadly, even though it may seem like I intend to say it is not).

That, and/or it's just badly designed but hey, who's counting at this point. ·~°;

[Alhanelem]

B.F. Skinner disagrees with you. A randomized reward will actually keep you coming back longer than a scheduled reward.
If it's not so confounding that you give up... If I went 0/200 on an NM (I know people who have) I'd have probably quit at that point too. Heck I'd actually have given up long before that.

You might stop after the scheduled reward, but you're also haivng more fun while you're getting there because you're not on pins and needles praying for your reward and getting disappointed.

[Elexia]

It would be nice but I can promise you it won't happen without significant changes to either the gear or system itself to (explicative) and I'm sure we'd much rather the event stay the same rather than potentially gaining less than what we would have originally.

[Alhanelem]

Of course it would mostl likely go one at a time on an event-by-event basis but the point is to dream of a time where if you have really horrible luck someone will come out and say "Sorry you've been having such bad luck. Here's a reward for your efforts anyway."

Bear in mind that the number of repeats would depend on the event or NMs. it would need to be set at a number so that the odds are good that you should have received the item by that point. This is just a safety net in case that doesn't happen.

[Felren]

I agree with the X times to get a key item for what you want, but it other than for a major event such as nyzul isle, I don't see it being done or even that viable of a way to go.

Major problem with this sort of system is if you make it a key item per lets say a voidwatch NM, that's more information stored per character from a good ~40 different mobs, it's more npcs, etc. The amount of stored data adds up very quickly when they're already keeping track of hundreds of key items, storage slips, multiple inventories, skills, cruor, CP, etc. etc. etc.

[Juilan]

I think step one would be add a key item to let you get a drop so you do eventually is a great idea... I'd actually be motivated to do VW (where did that cell update go?)
Secondly they should redo their core RNG system and get rid of one or two of the zeros on it... because no one likes going 0/100 on something (d ring comes to mind) now before you say "its not as rewarding" this is a "premium game" we have to pay to play it... we shouldn't, as customers, have to not get we want in a reasonable amount of time, especially with the amount of outdated content with have to do.

Thirdly make the ground kings time spawned again and keep the pop item, no one would mind killing a time spawned king if they're bringing their pop item ... and the item for the hq should drop off the nq, as well as having the hq be a timed spawn...

[Camiie]

I don't like tokens because it makes the rewards feel so insignificant. It's awesome to go 1/1 on something and when you go 1/20 on something, it's great to finally get it. With tokens, you do said event 20 times and that's it. Great, you have the top of the line Body piece. Now what?

Also, RNG gives something for people to keep coming back to. It would suck to have nothing to do with friends in-game once you all have all of the items you want.

tl;dr
Everyone will do event X exactly Y times, get what they want, and then complain there's nothing to do in the game.


Doesn't going 1/1 on something make a reward less significant? You put forth less time and effort than someone who earned 5/10/20 tokens. The 1/1 person basically did nothing but win the lottery, while the token person worked over time for their payday.

While it is "great" to finally get something after going 1/20/50/100/200 is it really a sense of joy you feel, or a sense of relief? This is crude, but it can "feel good" to um... relieve yourself... but that's not so much a sense of joy as it is a sense of not feeling bad anymore. Sorry for that example, but I think that's how it is for some of us. We don't feel good, we just don't feel bad anymore. Not everyone gets that gambler's rush from winning after losing for so long.

Some of the friendships I'd built were probably not as strong thanks to the stress the game can bring at times. I think some tend to forget how especially stingy RNG can bring out the dark sides in people when things finally do (or never) drop. It's not all love, rainbows, bunnies, and friendship that's for sure. I think it would actually be better to run out of things to do between updates than have to put up with the torture RNG can potentially bring.

[Sfchakan]

I just think not being hand-fed everything is a signature of XI and part (not all) of what makes it unique. I like the fact that I can throw hundreds or event thousands of hours at the game if I chose to, yet still have more content left to do or items to collect. In recent years, the climb to cap has been eased, but it still takes time to fully gear any job exceptionally. Now anyone can try out BLU at high level, for example, but it'll take some time to get the best weapons, armor, spells, skill levels capped, etc. I like that it takes that time and gives my friends and I something to help each other with.

I spent 6 months with XIV and I'm pretty much done with it until new content comes out, with most jobs at cap, most of the best weapons earned, a craft at cap, and a gatherer at cap. SIX MONTHS AND DONE?!? I spent 2-3 weeks with WoW and was pretty much done with one class (Rogue). XI has more meat (content) to it, whether people like the way it's implemented or not, than most other MMOs out there. I have been playing XI since late 05 fairly heavily, with about a years worth of sabbaticals, and there's still so much I haven't seen or done. If the rewards and content were so easily gained, I would've been done by 06/07 and missed out on a lot of great/fun memories.

Camiie, the RNG can indeed bring out poor behavior by some, but people can also be good to each other as well. Passing on items for jobs that their friends adore more, for example. This makes this show of generosity more meaningful.

[Karbuncle]

I agree with the OP.

As a man who himself is literally 0/440+ On Any form of Voidwatch body (even the "easier" ones like Rubeus/Ogier's/Athos), I'm tired of this. They don't need to hand me the body after only 25 kills. But knowing that If i kill Pil 100 Times, I'll get a "pil Slip" to exchange for an item of my choice, It would keep me, and other like me, from cancelling their account.

Theres no reason for these horrible drop rates with no sense of progression at all. Every time you do the fight, You have the same chance no matter how many times you've done it before.

I think Pil is holding my Record of about 0/150 on, Kaggen close second with about 0/100.

[Camiie]

Sfchakan, I'm not saying FFXI doesn't have content, but the longevity of that content is often padded quite heavily by low drop rates and hourly, daily, or weekly lockouts. It makes it seem like more than it really is. Other games you mentioned probably do have as much or more content than FFXI, but you don't face the same lockouts and low drop rates. Someone like you, and I don't mean it as an insult, may well just blast through it quickly while the average player of those games may not.

If you like the way things are with FFXI, fine, but let's be fair. SE uses low drop rates to keep from having to create as much content. Why create 20 dragons with 20 super duper swords when you can make just 1 and have people fight it forever? To you it makes the content they do create seem more special. To me, it makes the game as a whole seem smaller and more cheaply run than it should be. To you there's more value, but to me there's much less.

[Dazusu]

you're not on pins and needles praying for your reward and getting disappointed.

That's part of the fun. Some of the exclamations I've heard from people on Skype/Vent when they've finally seen an item drop they've been after have been well worth the long road helping them continue to attempt it. If you add guaranteed rewards after X attempts - you take that away, because "I would have been guaranteed to get it in 7 more kills anyway"

On that basis, you might as well just say:" Make every piece of gear the reward of a Magian Trial." (Please don't do that...)


I don't like tokens because it makes the rewards feel so insignificant.

So much this. Let's stop asking for things to be handed to us when luck doesn't go our way.


Why create 20 dragons with 20 super duper swords when you can make just 1 and have people fight it forever?

Because it's not economically viable/smart to create 20 dragons with 20 super duper swords, in let me guess, 20 new areas.



While the OP's idea might seem great - the problem is once you get all that armor, you have nothing left to do. Then what?

[Starry]

I don't like tokens because it makes the rewards feel so insignificant. It's awesome to go 1/1 on something and when you go 1/20 on something, it's great to finally get it. With tokens, you do said event 20 times and that's it. Great, you have the top of the line Body piece. Now what?

Also, RNG gives something for people to keep coming back to. It would suck to have nothing to do with friends in-game once you all have all of the items you want.

tl;dr
Everyone will do event X exactly Y times, get what they want, and then complain there's nothing to do in the game.

Your argument is fairly flawed in that it would be more beneficial to said community to have a 'minimum amount' of times to do something[with a token system] then a RNG where if you go 1/1 your done[as you said].

The problem is there isn't incentive to do much in this game when you get the 'big item' which is where a token system would also help. Tokens don't have to go for just gear; they can be used for consumables and the such that /could/ encourage people to come back and do that content.


So much this. Let's stop asking for things to be handed to us when luck doesn't go our way.

Lol...wtf? The 'challenge/fun' shouldn't be getting lucky with a random number - it /should/ be from playing the content. GTFO with this random drops are good for the game garbage.

[Camiie]

Because it's not economically viable/smart to create 20 dragons with 20 super duper swords, in let me guess, 20 new areas.

There's plenty of room in existing areas to put some spawns in. It's also not economically viable/smart to provide too little and too unvaried content to your customers. As much as they tout it, BALANCE!! is not SE's strong suit.



While the OP's idea might seem great - the problem is once you get all that armor, you have nothing left to do. Then what?

You could help your friends get their stuff done. You could take up a new job or better gear ones you've been lax with. You could be more willing to do such things since you're not burned out on tedium and monotony.

Or I guess SE can not make any changes and you can spam the same mob over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again until you can do the fight with your back to the screen and still get nothing for it.

[Fupafighter]

I don't like tokens because it makes the rewards feel so insignificant. It's awesome to go 1/1 on something and when you go 1/20 on something, it's great to finally get it. With tokens, you do said event 20 times and that's it. Great, you have the top of the line Body piece. Now what?

Also, RNG gives something for people to keep coming back to. It would suck to have nothing to do with friends in-game once you all have all of the items you want.

tl;dr
Everyone will do event X exactly Y times, get what they want, and then complain there's nothing to do in the game.
If anyone ever runs out of things to do in this game, I give them props lol. People have playing this game 5-6 hours a day for how many years now and still dont have all the things lol.

[Fupafighter]

I agree with the OP.

As a man who himself is literally 0/440+ On Any form of Voidwatch body (even the "easier" ones like Rubeus/Ogier's/Athos), I'm tired of this. They don't need to hand me the body after only 25 kills. But knowing that If i kill Pil 100 Times, I'll get a "pil Slip" to exchange for an item of my choice, It would keep me, and other like me, from cancelling their account.

Theres no reason for these horrible drop rates with no sense of progression at all. Every time you do the fight, You have the same chance no matter how many times you've done it before.

I think Pil is holding my Record of about 0/150 on, Kaggen close second with about 0/100.

Ya and these claim slips are going to suck if we can't upgrade like say 5 lux pugio slips for 1 coruscanti lol. I've literally gone 0/200+ on coruscanti before I have basically gone "Guess I could use the metals" lol. I don't even see VW as a place to obtain gear anymore. I see it as a place to get gil mainly and opportunity to upgrade my masamune to 99 lol. Not to mention stone restock is lame as can be lol. The body armor is just plane out stupid to obtain. Feels like nyzle isle will offer me better results in less time now lol.

[Fupafighter]

That's part of the fun. Some of the exclamations I've heard from people on Skype/Vent when they've finally seen an item drop they've been after have been well worth the long road helping them continue to attempt it. If you add guaranteed rewards after X attempts - you take that away, because "I would have been guaranteed to get it in 7 more kills anyway"

On that basis, you might as well just say:" Make every piece of gear the reward of a Magian Trial." (Please don't do that...)



So much this. Let's stop asking for things to be handed to us when luck doesn't go our way.



Because it's not economically viable/smart to create 20 dragons with 20 super duper swords, in let me guess, 20 new areas.



While the OP's idea might seem great - the problem is once you get all that armor, you have nothing left to do. Then what?

Go build the weapons lol? Level a new job? Missions, quests, VW, dynamis, abyssea? There are how many empy/relic/mythic? You should not run out of things to do :)

[Babekeke]

You guys finally got it right. There's only one problem. This only affects Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region.

In the name of 0/100 NM campers/event repeaters everywhere, add this to EVERY EVENT in the game!!! While you're at it, add it to NMs and HNMs too.

Sincerely,
Everyone who's ever gotten their butt kicked by the Random Number Generator

Yay! Implement this, then we can all bin our THF gear since there will be absolutely not use for TH ever, instead of just for 50% of stuff.

[Zinato]

Yay! Implement this, then we can all bin our THF gear since there will be absolutely not use for TH ever, instead of just for 50% of stuff.

I think there is a misconception, the idea behind this system is, After X number of runs if the R.N.G. or Lot system (a cousin of the R.N.G.) are not favorable to a player, they will still be rewarded. That doesn't mean the item couldn't drop sooner. This is or those cases that an item recorded at 50% drop decides to not show up for 10 kills or random ls member has luck -100 on the lot system during ls runs, things along that line. TH will still be useful since people don't want to wait 25 runs for a drop that's normally 1/5 unless that have to. In all cases the number of kills/runs before auto-reward should be much higher then the drop rate, x2-5 depending, I think would be about right. (excluding VW I don't even know what to think about that. [x0.5?])

[Sfchakan]

XIV has a token system in place for the two primal battles and I quickly got everything I needed. What was left to do after that? Helped the few other friends needing their items.. and then nothing. It killed the content prematurely because they listened to their playerbase too much. Ifrit battle and Moogle should have had much longer lifespans.

[Kimble]

As a general rule, I try not to take people seriously who use Kamas Earring on monk.

[Duelle]

I just think not being hand-fed everything is a signature of XI and part (not all) of what makes it unique.Everquest says hi. RNG-dependent rare mobs with loot is not exactly unique nor exclusive to FFXI.

Yay! Implement this, then the developers have a reason to turn THF into something other than TH-whore!Fixed.

I fully support the OP, though I'd go for a generalized points system instead of slips per boss. Otherwise we're gonna have the problem we had with empyrean armor papers, where we sometimes ended up with the wrong paper because we needed X paper and got Y instead.

[Alhanelem]

That's part of the fun.sorry, I can't get on board with your argument. Going 0/200+ on an NM it's not fun anymore, even if you do eventually get it-especially if your friends did it in far fewer attempts than you. you should never have to repeat the same thing 200 times to conquer the random number generator.

Things like relic and empyrean weapons are different, because you're making steady progress toward a set goal. Those types of things are lengthy and tedious, but not based on randomness.

Keep in mind. This suggestion is aimed at preventing extreme cases of people having to attempt something far more than they should have to from a probability standpoint. If we're talking a 1% drop rate, I'm not suggesting that you be given your free handout after 5 runs like Nyzul Uncharted. It would be something like 25-50 times. It would be set at a point where you have a pretty fair chance to obtain the reward before getting to that point. All this is, is a safety net against having to attempt the same thing an excessively ridiculous number of times.

I cannot fathom in my wildest dreams how anyone could be opposed to what amounts to little more than nerfing the ridiculousness of the random number generator.

For me personally, the worst thing was salvage. I and multiple other people I know have done the same salvage run over 100 times and never got the 35 piece we were looking for. By the time alternative gear came around, we were still no closer to finishing that salvage stuff. A line seriously HAS to be drawn somewhere.

[Dazusu]

Keep in mind. This suggestion is aimed at preventing extreme cases

Great. Then we don't need a visible token system. Game records how many times you've killed certain mobs. When you've done it 100 times*, they can force the drop to your group guaranteed. Just don't tell us about it - because there are many people it's going to turn off the game even more than Abyssea managed to do.

Yes, I realise people like the idea - but understand that there are people that don't.

* Number of times variable based on drop you're after.

[detlef]

If I have to go 1/200 on Heka's then so be it. I do not want to go 0/200. That's not cool.

[Malamasala]

I think I recall this being suggested when leaping lizzy was heavily camped.

I guess they are only like 8 years late. (And miss about 99% of the game changes they should have done with this system)

[Karbuncle]

If I have to go 1/200 on Heka's then so be it. I do not want to go 0/200. That's not cool.

I think knowing there's a Ceiling to how many times you can open a box and find disappointment would likely keep people interested in going in again. Knowing that if the Random number Generator kicks you in the junk 199 times, but on time 200, You'll give your item, Would keep you going.

Maybe :X

[Dew]

System like this would be great. After going 0/330 on Kaggen, 0/350 on Pil, and 0/320 on Akvan for bodies it's far from being fun. Also going 0/41 on anything that isn't a scroll on Rex also is lame. Random number generators are garbage. Luck should never play into getting drops.

[Malamasala]

While the OP's idea might seem great - the problem is once you get all that armor, you have nothing left to do. Then what?

I got to utterly bored at the game recently, that I'm only level 97 so far. Lots of content left, but it doesn't help if it is all utterly boring. I don't even care about new armors because they are all "Waste your life for a chance at doing 2% more damage every full moon".

If SE dropped 20 mythics in my deliver box, I'd still not play longer than if they expected me to work for them another 50 years.

[SNK]

System like this would be great. After going 0/330 on Kaggen, 0/350 on Pil, and 0/320 on Akvan for bodies it's far from being fun. Also going 0/41 on anything that isn't a scroll on Rex also is lame. Random number generators are garbage. Luck should never play into getting drops.

Drop rates like those are the reason I have over 600 Voidstones now. >_>

[Alhanelem]

Yay! Implement this, then we can all bin our THF gear since there will be absolutely not use for TH ever, instead of just for 50% of stuff.
Uh, this wouldn't make TH useless. It increases the odds of getting your items sooner, rather than later, which is what it already does now. By the time this key item kicks in, you really should have statistically already received the item.

Say an item has a 2% drop rate. You kill it 50 times. Odds are pretty good that you should have gotten the drop by that time. So you kill it some more. Still no drop. Now, you get the key item and finally your drop.
Now say you bring a thief, and just say it made the drop rate 10%. You kill the monster 10 times, get the drop. You've still saved a ton of time. How was TH not helpful?


While the OP's idea might seem great - the problem is once you get all that armor, you have nothing left to do.You say this as if it wouldn't happen anyway without this feature? Does it feel fair to you when your friend gets the drop after 10 runs of <insert event here> but you are still trying to get it 200 runs later and that friend gets tired of helping you? Once in salvage, I got a 35 piece on my first kill of an NM. Another person I know killed the same NM over 250 times before he got it. He stopped truly enjoying the event loooooooooong before that.

Man, you guys really don't get it. The idea is designed so that you have more than enough opportunities to obtain the item normally before the feature helps you out. The threshold for it helping you is set beyond the reasonable number of times you'd expect to take before getting the item based on its drop rate.

Camping an NM for a week for that 5% drop? Acceptable.
Camping it for 4 months? Not acceptable.


Great. Then we don't need a visible token system. Game records how many times you've killed certain mobs. When you've done it 100 times*, they can force the drop to your group guaranteed. Just don't tell us about it - because there are many people it's going to turn off the game even more than Abyssea managed to do.The only way this would have the effect you're desiring is if they ninja-added it, and that's a stupid thing to do. How could this turn anyone off from the game anyway? This is only about ending crap like "I went 0/350 on Kaggen." NOTHING should EVER take that many kills. Period. 50? Fine. 100? Pushing it. 350? Far more people would be turned off by the impossibility of obtaining the item than would be turned off by the assurance that if they keep at it long enough, they will get it.


I don't even care about new armors because they are all "Waste your life for a chance at doing 2% more damage every full moon".I think this quote sums it up.

Most people I know would rather be working toward a visible, fixed goal anyway than depending on random luck- Even if that visible fixed goal is longer on average- You feel like you're making progress and you're more motivated to continue.

[Rosina]

Hate to say this, but this "token" reward = gear. Is why WoW has t13 (or higher) gear and is getting pokemon because players are bored.
Everything in that game is all about earning tokens aka badges and spending it on gear. Everyone gets them so fast they burn threw content with in days of it coming out. And when they have a hard time with it, the content gets "nerfed". Pretty much end result is everyone will have the same gear in the matter of days. And will be bored to tears crying for content.

And it took me 5 years of killing/ hunting leaping lizzy for those boots before finally getting a pair. Having random drop rates on things is not bad. Its the wait to fight the mob again that is the real killer. Improve the NM to be more timed based under 30 min with same drop rates. In ffxiv nms are under a 15 min timer, and takes maybe 2-3 kills to get said drop item. Everyone actually complained about that saying it was too easy.

[Fupafighter]

People are too addicted to VW drops lol. There are other rewards in VW, lots of gil, and other decent gear. The idea of the HQ drops were meant to be like the floor 100 gear in new nyzle isle, supposed to be able to get it on rare occasions lol.

[Alhanelem]

Hate to say this, but this "token" reward = gear. Is why WoW has t13 (or higher) gear and is getting pokemon because players are bored.
Everything in that game is all about earning tokens aka badges and spending it on gear. Everyone gets them so fast they burn threw content with in days of it coming out. And when they have a hard time with it, the content gets "nerfed". Pretty much end result is everyone will have the same gear in the matter of days. And will be bored to tears crying for content.

And it took me 5 years of killing/ hunting leaping lizzy for those boots before finally getting a pair. Having random drop rates on things is not bad. Its the wait to fight the mob again that is the real killer. Improve the NM to be more timed based under 30 min with same drop rates. In ffxiv nms are under a 15 min timer, and takes maybe 2-3 kills to get said drop item. Everyone actually complained about that saying it was too easy.
This isn't WoW. Apples and oranges. And the idea here is not collecting tokens, but simply recieving the drop out of pity for those handful of people out there who get shafted out the rear by the randon number generator.


And it took me 5 years of killing/ hunting leaping lizzy for those boots before finally getting a pair.Any sane person would have given up after a few weeks or less. You'd have to be even more insane to actually enjoy visiting leaping lizzy for the 1000th day in a row. Random drop rates aren't bad until you're the one who never gets the drop when everyone else has.

I guarantee you if they gave out salvage 35s after you failed to get the item after 100 successful runs, people would not have run out of reasons to do it before the next bit of content came out.

WoW's problem was getting those tokens was too easy. The idea here is to set the threshold to recieve the drop past what the realistic expectation is for the amount of time before you get the drop.. E.g. if they expect it will take the average person 1 month to beat the random number generator, then make it so that just over a month is required to get the freebie. Then, you still have the chance to get the item before that, but you don't feel like you're doomed to repeating the same thing over and over and over til the day you die.

Updated original post to be clearer, because negative nancy party poopers aren't getting it.

[SpankWustler]

I can't understand the people who are basically comparing trying for a drop to gambling.

The reason that the chance of loss when gambling is so high is that the house wants to make a profit. The reason there is no assure payout after many losses when gambling is because the house wants to make a profit. The reason gambling is often done using games where chance exceeds skill is because the house wants to make a profit.

There is no house to profit within FFXI. You can have the good without the bad.

By the time someone has fought a thing with a 1% drop rate roughly 250 times, that person is not a normal person if he or she doesn't want to just obtain the damn item and be done with it. I don't think the person is flawed or bad in any way but I am very confident that the person isn't representative of the average human.

Assuming this system required a lot of kills, like twice-over what would be needed to statistically see several of an item, I don't think it would effect anyone negatively. Yes, it would be a huge number of kills. This would still give people a definite goal to work for and hope to achieve.


And it took me 5 years of killing/ hunting leaping lizzy for those boots before finally getting a pair.

And by the time you got them, there were better options you could and should have been using. BA - DUM - TISH!

I'll be here all night, folks. Try the seafood salad if you hit up the buffet. It's gone bad and you'll poop so bad you hallucinate and that's awesome.

[Duelle]

Hate to say this, but this "token" reward = gear is why WoW has t13 (or higher) gear and is getting pokemon because players are bored.Tier gear exists because that game, unlike FFXI, raised the level cap accross several expansions, which leads to higher levels of power and gear that should reflect that. Not all designs are perfect (see: any paladin tier set that is not T2, T9, and T10), but they generally have the right idea. Tier gear is not exactly a bad thing, either, specially considering that the vanilla design for tier gear used to favor certain roles. That's something we could certainly use, instead of "oh, RDM got yet another caster set... yaaaaay /sarcasm".

As far as companion pet battles, pankration says hi. I'll be amused if Blizzard gets it right, specially after seeing how quickly pankration died in this game.

Pretty much end result is everyone will have the same gear in the matter of days. And will be bored to tears crying for content.Statistically, sure, people will have the same gear. They were intelligent enough to give players Transmogrification, though, so even when flying through stormwind city or perhaps running a raid you'll find people looking very different.

[Rosina]

WoW is only like 5 years old compared to ffxi 10. And almost every update released new gear after they released badge gear. Was more saying the number of the tier not the gear itself. teir 13 in a 5 year old game that is getting 90 in the next exspansion pack compared to ffxi's t3 99. Was more hinting at that easier/ faster isn't always better.
The faster/ easier it is to get gear. The less you will have to do the faster you get bored. Which is a non stop issue in WoW. All they do is log on raid dailies log off. This is several player accounts over youtube videos. And the trasmorphing gear thing is relitively new. Badge gear was out in lich king. which was the second ex pack. And Blizz got alot of grief for it saying it caters to the casuals.

If they handle it properly idm but randomness serves its purpose by making you play longer. The longer people play more money they make. If people get everything too quickly they will quit sooner resulting in less money.

[Zinato]

First, May 16, 2002 for the First Japanese release of XI, October 28, 2003 for an international release. November 23, 2004 for World of Warcraft, that's a ~1-2.5 year difference not 5. Second, true random isn't a solution, it's a stall tactic. WoW may have faster gear acquisition however, it also has two things XI doesn't. Frequent content additions and low-man set-ups. As for XI we get new content that takes longer than 5 hours to finish once a year, and smaller things 4 times. And, what if people log only for raids, Is Blizzard making any less money? Take a moment to look at what we have but, take away the JP midnight waits/Lengthy time spawns/R.N.G you will quickly notice its not much.

All that aside, once again this system isn't designed to get items early it is to block extreme examples. Game has a drop programmed at 5%, this system takes affect after 50 kills at which time you should have had x2 already. It's a safety net, both against extreme situations and corrupt players. (Such as loot stealing LS leaders, or flawed point systems) Even if a player is unlucky enough to be forced to join 2-3 LS's all of which place them low on a wait list, they will still eventually get the item.

All content will die it is inevitable, low drop rates aren't the answer, especially with large group requirements. More people needed the faster the content dies, and the harder for new/late joining players to do the content. As bad as things are now, mark my words down the line people wanting current endgame gear are going to have one heck of a time unless it becomes low-mannable.

Now, on another note, to make a system like this the designers would have to have an invisible tracker marking every NM/Event you do. (Even if the player saw the KI, the tracker would still have to be in place.) It would be a large amount of programming/lag involved for such a thing, so I imagine there would be phases and that only certain content would receive the system. In other words, not every NM will get it.

[Malamasala]

If they handle it properly idm but randomness serves its purpose by making you play longer. The longer people play more money they make. If people get everything too quickly they will quit sooner resulting in less money.

I doubt that is true. Most people who quit, did not get a mythic. So according to your system, they wouldn't have quit because they still had content to do.

In reality people quit when they get bored. And you get bored around 50 repeat events regardless of if you have the item or not.

[Sagagemini]

B.F. Skinner disagrees with you. A randomized reward will actually keep you coming back longer than a scheduled reward.

Skinner would never imagine though that MMORPG players would be smarter than rats and be capable of choosing to give up on the game.

[Sagagemini]

WoW is only like 5 years old compared to ffxi 10. And almost every update released new gear after they released badge gear. Was more saying the number of the tier not the gear itself. teir 13 in a 5 year old game that is getting 90 in the next exspansion pack compared to ffxi's t3 99. Was more hinting at that easier/ faster isn't always better.
The faster/ easier it is to get gear. The less you will have to do the faster you get bored. Which is a non stop issue in WoW. All they do is log on raid dailies log off. This is several player accounts over youtube videos. And the trasmorphing gear thing is relitively new. Badge gear was out in lich king. which was the second ex pack. And Blizz got alot of grief for it saying it caters to the casuals.

If they handle it properly idm but randomness serves its purpose by making you play longer. The longer people play more money they make. If people get everything too quickly they will quit sooner resulting in less money.


Actually what drives ppl off this game to the point of making it a niche is the extremely slow rewards/amount of time commited. Thought you would know that by now. Also the number of players that quit without ever having a relic or empyrean or insert your uber gear here surpasses any % you might imagine.

[MarkovChain]

What a bad idea, fix the content instead. What's needed for nyzul is not for other stuff. The problem with nyzul is that you can't possibly reach floor 100 (generally) even when you are almost there. The ability to not surpass floor 100 would have probably been enough, but since they didn't want to make nyzul gear elitist they went further. I hope the don't do this to salvage (but I see that there is this system planned for voidwatch).

[Kimble]

Pchan is against it? Means I am all for it.

[Fupafighter]

What a bad idea, fix the content instead. What's needed for nyzul is not for other stuff. The problem with nyzul is that you can't possibly reach floor 100 (generally) even when you are almost there. The ability to not surpass floor 100 would have probably been enough, but since they didn't want to make nyzul gear elitist they went further. I hope the don't do this to salvage (but I see that there is this system planned for voidwatch).
You can get to 100...people need to stop caring about floor 100 lol...its like wanting a damn coruscanti, you go for the metals and that rare rare occasion, you get coruscanti lol.... The floor 80 gear is still kickass and achievable. And alot of these people achieving 80 will eventually get lucky and get floor 100 gear.

[Camiie]

You can get to 100...people need to stop caring about floor 100 lol...its like wanting a damn coruscanti, you go for the metals and that rare rare occasion, you get coruscanti lol.... The floor 80 gear is still kickass and achievable. And alot of these people achieving 80 will eventually get lucky and get floor 100 gear.


So you like luck being the deciding factor whether someone gets the best gear or not? You don't like working for your stuff? You'd rather play the lotto or gamble in Vegas to make your fortune?

[Fupafighter]

THis is pointless lol. I don't see people complaining about how rare it is to get kraken club haha. Same concept...except you can SPAM the Nms for the drops.

[Zinato]

THis is pointless lol. I don't see people complaining about how rare it is to get kraken club haha. Same concept...except you can SPAM the Nms for the drops.

Kraken club also hasn't become standard gear, as long as people shout for Mekira tanks, and Heka healers there is an issue. On the other hand if players treated the gear as luxury items and not mandatory then you would be right there would be no immediate issue. (Yes, I have seen shouts like that and yes they are becoming more frequent.) Also by immediate issue I mean eventually it will be hard for the few players still wanting XX NM to get a team of 18 together, and unlike 75 gear there will not be level increases to reduce the number of players needed.

[Fupafighter]

Kraken club also hasn't become standard gear, as long as people shout for Mekira tanks, and Heka healers there is an issue. On the other hand if players treated the gear as luxury items and not mandatory then you would be right there would be no immediate issue. (Yes, I have seen shouts like that and yes they are becoming more frequent.) Also by immediate issue I mean eventually it will be hard for the few players still wanting XX NM to get a team of 18 together, and unlike 75 gear there will not be level increases to reduce the number of players needed.
+2 is standard...not HQ body armor...get that right man.

[Zinato]

+2 is standard...not HQ body armor...get that right man.

I didn't say all shouts require it but, as time goes on it is becoming the new +2. Besides, I don't know what groups you've been in but, anyone in full +2 without a sizable gear swap set seems to be mocked in the runs I do. (Then again Asura is known for its um... "Special" players) That aside, gear becomes standard when it becomes expected, regardless of who is able to get it. For example, Empyrean is standard for DD, 40-50% cure potency is standard for healers and so forth. (Small side note on Mekira, unlike Heka which has a 12% counterpart, Mekira's craftable counterparts deal in -pdt rather then lower amounts of -dt. In other words Mekira is irreplaceable in terms of single piece -dt goes. The exception of course is creed +2 body under optimal conditions) Don't get me wrong I'm entirely for special pieces of gear that set apart the dedicated from the less then dedicated. But, when these pieces of gear become a sorting feature of players who want to do content, there is then an issue. If a player acquired 5-10 pieces of rare gear an does 10% more damage for it, that's wonderful, they can feel proud as superior damage dealers. But, if the gap is more like 50% increase off 1-2 pieces (like empyrean weapons/ws) then the average player will see not having such a weapon/gear piece as being gimp. That is the problem I see. It's more of an issue than most players account for but, that's a wall of text for another time. I also want to point out this issue isn't one I can attribute to a single player or player type, as a majority of players have this habit.

[Fupafighter]

How is toci and mekira body standard lol..? Some people go 0/200+ (me) on shit like that. It's a luxury, I understand that. It's not standard in anyway. Saying that you shouldn't be relying on that item to drop when you do a run, It's supposed to be rare as hell because it's so good.

[Alhanelem]

THis is pointless lol. I don't see people complaining about how rare it is to get kraken club haha. Same concept...except you can SPAM the Nms for the drops.
That's because nobody cares about the kraken club anymore.

I can't believe how much people are still NOT GETTING THE POINT. The system is intended ONLY to prevent an UNGODLY EXCESSIVE number of attempts at a content for the SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE who get ROYALLY SCREWED with their luck. This system does NOT come into play for the VAST MAJORITY of people who have good enough fortunes to get the drop within a statistically probable period of time. E.g. If something has a 1% drop rate, then it's statistically likely that you could get one within 100 kills (It's not a guarantee of course, that would be Gambler's Fallacy). So, in this case, if you went 1/150 or maybe 1/200, you'd get the pity drop. I cannot comprehend how anyone could find that unreasonable.

The only reason anyone could possibly be opposed to this is because they already have their <insert rare item here> and they want to do everything they can to make sure they remain part of some exlcusive club.

[Fupafighter]

Noone is opposed to it lol. And i care about kraken club haha.

[Karbuncle]

Can add an additional 0/32 To my Total tally of not obtaining Voidwatch Bodies.

An Additional, 0/12 on Botulus Rex, 0/20 on Kaggen.

putting my total in the ballpark of 0/450+ On Any body. 0/210~ Or so on Kaggen Himself.

[SpankWustler]

Can add an additional 0/32 To my Total tally of not obtaining Voidwatch Bodies.

An Additional, 0/12 on Botulus Rex, 0/20 on Kaggen.

putting my total in the ballpark of 0/450+ On Any body. 0/210~ Or so on Kaggen Himself.

http://cobbersonthebrain.areavoices.com/files/2011/12/Alcoholism.jpg

[Karbuncle]

You always have a way to perfectly capture exactly how i feel :(.

And that Picture sums up Voidwatch perfectly.

[Sagagemini]

OP is right. SE, for the sake of this game's future, remove the random frustration generator. Let us know our efforts will be rewarded by our persistence and not by our luck or lack of it.

[Sfchakan]

People are still posting in this thread? Let it go.

[Alhanelem]

People are still posting in this thread? Let it go.
Why? There's nothing wrong with the thread. If people have something to say, they have something to say. Also, by posting, you're including yourself in "people that are still posting in this thread."

[Sfchakan]

Yes, I realize that. However, this is not something that needs to happen to this game. It will only accelerate people quitting because they have nothing left to do.

[Alhanelem]

Yes, I realize that. However, this is not something that needs to happen to this game. It will only accelerate people quitting because they have nothing left to do.
You're welcome to your opinion, however, that does not mean this thread shouldn't exist. There are people who would disagree with you.

Just because you don't agree with a thread doesn't mean I didn't have the right to make it or that it doesn't have the right to exist.

[detlef]

Yes, I realize that. However, this is not something that needs to happen to this game. It will only accelerate people quitting because they have nothing left to do.
Will people quit when they have nothing left to do? Or will they quit because they spend many fruitless hours NOT getting a drop?

I don't think you actually read anything in this thread before voicing your opinion.

[Camiie]

Will people quit when they have nothing left to do? Or will they quit because they spend many fruitless hours NOT getting a drop?


That's what the opponents of this idea don't see. Events like VW, WoE, and Neo-Nyzul are being avoided by people like me because of the randomness and poor drop rates. So, guess what? I FEEL LIKE I HAVE NOTHING WORTHWHILE TO DO! The abysmally low drop rates have the exact same effect as 100% drop rates, just for a different reason.

Pardon my use of SE's favorite buzzword, but where difficulty and drop rates are concerned there needs to be balance. As long as SE decides to ride one extreme or the other they're going to lose people. The OP's suggestion is trying to help avoid the extremes which would in turn help SE retain subscribers.

[Sfchakan]

Will people quit when they have nothing left to do? Or will they quit because they spend many fruitless hours NOT getting a drop?

I don't think you actually read anything in this thread before voicing your opinion.


I read the thread in it's entirety. You guys want guaranteed rewards for your efforts. I understand the desire. It will, though, kill the game much faster. It will happen if such systems become commonplace in XI.

[Sfchakan]

That's what the opponents of this idea don't see. Events like VW, WoE, and Neo-Nyzul are being avoided by people like me because of the randomness and poor drop rates. So, guess what? I FEEL LIKE I HAVE NOTHING WORTHWHILE TO DO! The abysmally low drop rates have the exact same effect as 100% drop rates, just for a different reason.

Pardon my use of SE's favorite buzzword, but where difficulty and drop rates are concerned there needs to be balance. As long as SE decides to ride one extreme or the other they're going to lose people. The OP's suggestion is trying to help avoid the extremes which would in turn help SE retain subscribers.

Then you are not interested in the endgame content SE is currently offering. I'm not really sure what there is that's appealing for you to do in the game once you "finish" with Abyssea content. Perhaps SE will bring out more casual-oriented content in the future to appeal to your demographic.

[detlef]

I read the thread in it's entirety. You guys want guaranteed rewards for your efforts. I understand the desire. It will, though, kill the game much faster. It will happen if such systems become commonplace in XI.So you're saying it'll break the game if I get a guaranteed Heka's body if I kill Akvan 200 times? After I get the body I'm going to quit because what's left beyond that?

200 kills is the outlier. Not many people have killed it that many times. Most people with an interest in the body piece who went hard after it probably have it. How do you feel about them? Are you worried about those people running out of things to do?

[Sfchakan]

So you're saying it'll break the game if I get a guaranteed Heka's body if I kill Akvan 200 times? After I get the body I'm going to quit because what's left beyond that?

Essentially, yes, but you're exaggerating it to try to make my point sound ridiculous. We know it wouldn't be 200 because the whiners would cry up a storm. "That's too much! Why even bother changing it in the first place?!?" Eventually, you'd have everything you could want for your jobs and quit, because there is nothing else to do to advance your character.

[detlef]

I'm not asking for less than 200. I'm asking for some guarantee that the work I put in won't be for naught.

[Sfchakan]

I'm not asking for less than 200. I'm asking for some guarantee that the work I put in won't be for naught.

I think a return to a shared loot pool for new events would please a lot of people. Then your group can make it's own rules and, as long as you don't play with crooked people, you can get some reward out of your investment.

A token-based system is not the only answer.

To be honest, I don't care for the individual loot pools either.

[detlef]

Well yeah, pooling the personal drops or a decent ticket system would help a lot. I'm mainly griping at the system as it is now though. It sounds like pooling the drops is a complete non-starter for SE but the ticket system could be decent. But not Camate has described in the past. 6 tickets for a drop for something that has less than 1% chance of loading? C'mon now. That could end up being even less reasonable than what's been proposed in this thread.

[Calatilla]

I agree with the OP.

As a man who himself is literally 0/440+ On Any form of Voidwatch body (even the "easier" ones like Rubeus/Ogier's/Athos), I'm tired of this. They don't need to hand me the body after only 25 kills. But knowing that If i kill Pil 100 Times, I'll get a "pil Slip" to exchange for an item of my choice, It would keep me, and other like me, from cancelling their account.

Theres no reason for these horrible drop rates with no sense of progression at all. Every time you do the fight, You have the same chance no matter how many times you've done it before.

I think Pil is holding my Record of about 0/150 on, Kaggen close second with about 0/100.

This x100. Myself and a friend have done roughly the same amount of VW, to date he has nearly all of the body drops, and I have 0. The RNG is silly, I dont see why I should be wasting my time with VW just to find out my friend got another shiny and I got another 3 logs and 2 ores.

[Alhanelem]

I read the thread in it's entirety. You guys want guaranteed rewards for your efforts. I understand the desire. It will, though, kill the game much faster. It will happen if such systems become commonplace in XI.
No, you don't really get it. This is just a protection system for the small number of people who take far beyond the average number of tries at something before getting anything out of it. For most people this system has no effect, as they will get the drop in the average amount of time or sooner.

No drop rate should be so bad that we have people saying they went 0/400 NM kills / event runs. There is a threshold crossed where it's not worth the effort unless you're insane or on some kind of drug.

This system creates a happy medium where you can still get the drop fast if you get lucky, but there is a reasonable calculated limit on how unlucky you can get.
And if something like this isn't provided, then they need to give a serious reexamination to drop rates, because it's just silly how many times I hear about some people doing the same voidwatch run or same dynamis. OOOOh old dynamis, how I love thee. We got one dancer relic legs the day they were added to the game. I didn't get the drop, and 50 beaucadine runs and 1000s of monster kills later, I never saw another one, while at the same time a friends LS was seeing them drop left and right. I never did get them before empyrean armor came out. Apparently ~200 hours of my time wasn't enough for one single item out of thousands in the game.

You can only be opposed to this if you're one of the people that has some super rare drop and you don't want to see anyone else get it, at least not any more easily than you did.

[Karbuncle]

You can only be opposed to this if you're one of the people that has some super rare drop and you don't want to see anyone else get it, at least not any more easily than you did.

^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is absolutely zero conceivable reason to oppose a system that's only meaning would be keeping people from going well over double the expected drop rate of any given item.

This system isn't in place to hand people Items, If we assume the Drop rate on the Bodies are 1%, Me, and I know people like me, are well over 0/200 On a Single enemy, which is well past double the expected average amount of time.

Theres no reason for this! There needs to be a ceiling. Adding a ceiling that will only effect 1~5% of the people doing Voidwatch. Its not going to make bodies rain, its going to keep people from going INSANE trying to get something. Giving people a goal to reach before you get your item Isn't going to make people quit the game any more than going 0/440 On something.

People have been getting their items, and not getting their items, since the game began. The game still dwindles, but its probably dwindling faster now than it ever has before, Perhaps thats a hint people don't enjoy having drop rates divided by 18 and no progression in their events.

[Sfchakan]

No, you don't really get it..

No, you!

Really, all I'm seeing is a wall of dense. I've explained my argument multiple times. It's a VALID point. You're spouting the same stuff over and over, then assuming that someone is only opposed to your silly suggestion because they want to be jerks. I gave a great alternative: return to shared loot pools. You continue to go back to defending your idea. "NO, YOU ARE WRONG AND I AM RIGHT!!! EVERYTHING MUST BE EASY AS PIE AND HANDED TO ME! COME ON, SE!"

But, yeah, be butthurt because I once went 1/1 on O Kotes (but ignore my 1/42 on Leaping/Bounding Boots). Obviously I'm out to protect my eliteness or something. I can draw a picture of you in a full set of whatever gear you want, would that make you feel better?

I type "you guys want guaranteed rewards for your efforts..." and yet I don't get it and must be some mean old jerk trying to lord my Empress Hairpin over you? Dude, you've got problems. You're asking for GUARANTEED REWARDS for killing something X times. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR. Stop being so defensive of your poorly thought-out idea and be open to better options.

Also, I would love to see legitimate proof that someone went 0/400 on anything. Karbuncle? Not someone whose numbers I would trust.

[Zinato]

Really, all I'm seeing is a wall of dense. I've explained my argument multiple times. It's a VALID point. You're spouting the same stuff over and over, then assuming that someone is only opposed to your silly suggestion because they want to be jerks. I gave a great alternative: return to shared loot pools. You continue to go back to defending your idea. "NO, YOU ARE WRONG AND I AM RIGHT!!! EVERYTHING MUST BE EASY AS PIE AND HANDED TO ME! COME ON, SE!"

Also, I would love to see legitimate proof that someone went 0/400 on anything. Karbuncle? Not someone whose numbers I would trust.

Kinggalka went 0/400 and I know its at least over 200 as I was there for at least that many of them. That aside, I fail to see how 1/200 is a worse system or a less valid suggestion then Shared loot. I assure you with near 100% certainty shared pool would result in many more bodies dropping then this would. While that does prove better for players, would that not do exactly what you wish to prevent? Players getting gear and getting bored?

I find it hard to believe any player needs only x1 r/x item from VW. With each battle taking 5 minutes x 200 is 1000 minutes cut that into hours and you get ~16.5 hours. That's of nonstop VW excluding any wait times. Including Shout time I'd guess roughly ~24 hours minimum time per piece. Being realistic each player should need minimum 2-3 pieces. Did I mention that's 600 stones you have to save or find time to get money to purchase, and assuming people have 0 to do in the game other then VW. Now, the tricky part. While it's fine and dandy that a player willing to play 24 hours gets a body the same is not true for players who play much less then that 2-7hrs a day I'd say is average. Now, players who play all day will always run out of things to do that's the nature of playing all day. Those playing 2-7 would take ~3-12 days per piece of armor. At 2-3 pieces needed ~6-36 straight days total. (I'm doing my best to use the low end of the scale, many players need many more) Again, this assumes that is all players log in for, and doesn't include any progression needed.

What am I getting at? We should be getting content fast enough to balance this. Step back for a moment and look at what we have but, exclude drop rates. In one year Dec 11 (post aby) - Dec 12 we have received 56 5-10 minute fights, and 2 easily broken caps. That's about it everything else is a tweak, or revamp. (Dynamis is the same content for the same goals just more available now, and new merits/level ups is simply leveling 4 hours to get 90-99 and another 4 per WS, or just do VW for that EXP.) Those drop rates are to buy time for a lacking system, it's nothing short of sad to see how little there is.

As a final note, the balance between players who play 16 hours a day and those playing 2 has always been an issue for developers of MMOs. This is often what forces arbitrary wait times such as those for dynamis and limbus, as well as 24 hour spawns. They put them in place so that even a player only playing once a week wont fall behind those that play all day every day. They did something like this to EXP in XIV and that was one of the most criticised aspects of XIV. This problem can never fully be fixed. And, a balance must be found between adding new content, keeping it from being to quick or to slow for both demographics. To sum everything up I think the underlying issue is lack of content, the drop rates and the need to protect them is a direct result of this. (Also, a promised drop after 200 is fair only reason I see them avoiding it is in fear of revealing the true drop rates of items, since this would be based on drop rate x2-3 or whatever.)

[Camiie]

Then you are not interested in the endgame content SE is currently offering.


I am interested in it, but with the loot distribution as is, it's a waste of my limited game time. I prefer to go where I know I can advance my character a little bit instead of going where I may have a slim chance of possibly advancing it more. I'd love to get into VW, WoE, and Neo-Nyzul if they didn't feel like they'd be a gigantic waste of time. I don't mind challenging or time consuming, but I do mind being unrewarded for my conquest of the challenge and spending of my time.

I don't expect a reward for helping friends or newbies, but I expect some form of advancement when seriously participating in endgame content. Each fight should be a step forward in some way. Why do you think guilds and linkshells came up with DKP? It's not just to sort loot, but to give members a feeling of progression while doing largely unrewarding content. Now, for better or worse, SE has taken DKP out of the equation so they need to fill that void. Maybe the OP's solution isn't perfect. Maybe it isn't even the best solution. There's obviously never going to be a perfect one, especially from SE. It's still far better than letting pure dumb luck be the sole arbiter of advancement.



I'm not really sure what there is that's appealing for you to do in the game once you "finish" with Abyssea content. Perhaps SE will bring out more casual-oriented content in the future to appeal to your demographic.


What's going to be appealing to you once you get lucky with the drops you want?

[Sfchakan]

...

Wow, another level-headed player enters the thread. Thanks for the solid response! I agree completely that the true underlying issue is lack of content. SE kind of shot themselves in the foot with some of the post-75 gear they've released: they made all of the usual 75 cap endgame events obselete for gear/chracter advancement! This has destroyed/devauled a lot of content and now SE is in a bad predicament for XI. We do need more content to keep everyone happy, and only getting things like VW or Nyzul Uncharted is not going to please some of their playerbase.

I don't want to see SE in the same boat on XI as they are in XIV. They release new content once every 3 months and the playerbase is done with it in 2-4 weeks. Then people leave for 2 months to wait it out and save money. I think a token-based system would lead to more people cancelling their subscriptions or disappearing for 2 months at a time. "I checked this out, got the drops I wanted, and now I'll see you in May!"

[Alhanelem]

I've explained my argument multiple times. It's a VALID point. You're spouting the same stuff over and overWhen your idea is so simple yet people don't seem to get it, there's not much else to do but spout it over and over again. I don't see anything valid about your point. your point is "boo hoo, now other people's luck has a cap on how sihtty it can be. Woe is me!"

The parameters for this suggestion are such that it has no chance of rendering content prematurely obsolete. Really, what is the chance for the average person that a piece of content is NOT going to lose its luster after a couple hundred times? Pretty low I'd say. This feature is specifically designed to ensure that content gets a certain amount of *enjoyable* playtime, while reducing the potential amount of unenjoyable, "my god i'm sick of this I just want to get the drop and play something else, I give up" playtime.


I don't want to see SE in the same boat on XI as they are in XIV. They release new content once every 3 months and the playerbase is done with it in 2-4 weeks. Then people leave for 2 months to wait it out and save money.Hm? This doesn't happen in XIV. The game is actually kind of fun now. Probably because it's now being directed by a guy who knows at least what the word fun means.

[Sfchakan]

You are so dense, man! I'm going to stop replying to you just as did Karbuncle in another thread. There's no point in it. "Your idea" should not be implemented and my main goal in this thread was to voice some opposition so that SE's reps don't note 100% agreement on this piss poor idea.

[Alhanelem]

You are so dense, man!I'm not dense. Nothing I've posted even says "dense." You're just dead set against a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Your only purpose in this thread is to reduce the amount of support to it. You don't even have a reasonable, raitonal explanation of why you're opposed. You're just opposing it for the sake of doing so. The fact that you're using rude terms like "dense" and "piss poor" just reinforces that. Your behavior borders on trolling, so I'm just going to ignore you at this point. There's a difference between being opposed to an idea and going on a holy crusade against it.

This suggestion doesn't hurt ANYBODY, and doesn't even affect most people. It's virtually harmless.

[Kimble]

Going 1/200 isn't going to kill the game. Going 0/200+ is. There really is NO reason to be against this. Bringing up shared loot pool is not the way to go since SE has already stated SEVERAL times, that they will not be doing that with VW. So really, are you are trying to do is beat a dead horse, when someone else is coming up with an alternative.