[dev1102] So what is the Ultimate Spell for RDM?

[ManaKing]

BLM has Meteor under Elemental Seal. SCH has BOTH Embrava and Kaustra under their 2 Hour. WHM apparently has Arise coming.

*Crickets*

[cidbahamut]

I don't want a spell that's shackled to a Job Ability.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It'll be an enfeeble locked to Saboteur no doubt. /sigh

[YRUdamasta]

RDM IS jack of all trades not a specilist

[Daniel_Hatcher]

RDM IS jack of all trades not a specilist

Spare us this nonsense. If nothing else RDM are supposedly masters of Enfeebling so point = Void.

That said, that really has no relevance, a Jack of all Trades can spell get an ultimate spell/ability.

[SpankWustler]

I don't want a spell that's shackled to a Job Ability.

Nobody does. When everybody is unhappy, however, balance is achieved.

[Duelle]

BLM has Meteor under Elemental Seal. SCH has BOTH Embrava and Kaustra under their 2 Hour. WHM apparently has Arise coming.I'd worry more about the list of things that need to be fixed for RDM before asking for an ultimate spell.

[saevel]

I'd worry more about the list of things that need to be fixed for RDM before asking for an ultimate spell.

Agree with this. They need to fix the damn job already.

Watch, SE will make "Gravity III" as our super spell, castable only under Spontaneity.

[ShadowViper]

An ultimate spell, so yay our usefullness if will turn into one spell show. Like it was said above rather see the job fixed and giving a real role in a group enviroment.

[Kristal]

It'll be an enfeeble locked to Saboteur no doubt. /sigh

If that spell is an ultimate enfeebling spell, it would be fitting.
So.. how about Ultima as our ultimate spell? (Aoe) non-elemental damage that dispels all buffs, lowers all stats by 50% and inflicts all enfeebling effects. Enfeebling effects would resist as normal, although following the NEW resist system, not the immune-to-all resist system. (Combine it with /BLM Elemental Seal for added magic accuracy.)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

An ultimate spell, so yay our usefullness if will turn into one spell show. Like it was said above rather see the job fixed and giving a real role in a group enviroment.

It has little to do with one spell defining RDM more the fact all mages so far have gained unique spells for their line bar RDM.


If that spell is an ultimate enfeebling spell, it would be fitting.
So.. how about Ultima as our ultimate spell? (Aoe) non-elemental damage that dispels all buffs, lowers all stats by 50% and inflicts all enfeebling effects. Enfeebling effects would resist as normal, although following the NEW resist system, not the immune-to-all resist system. (Combine it with /BLM Elemental Seal for added magic accuracy.)

True enough, but it'd more likely be Paralyze III to help on all the non-TP style melee attacks all 3 of them. :p

[Arcalimo]

a Jack of all Trades can spell get an ultimate spell/ability.

Kaustrava meteoarise:
-Level 99 under spontaneity or chainspell effect.
-Deals massive non-elemental damage to everyone between range.
-A phoenix appears from the ashes of the explosion and raises nearby party members, full hp with a temporary invincible effect, withouth weakened status and with a powerfull reraise, regen, regain and haste effect.
-In the case that you cast it consecutively with Chainspell active, the animation will vary and the range will be extended, multiple meteors will drop on the entire Vanadiel hitting everyone outside their mog house.

Known bugs:
-It is posible to exploit the chainspell effect on this spell and obtain drops of any monster by casting it from outside your mog house. We politely ask you to not exploit this bug or else you will be banned when we fix it in the next 2 years.

Thank you for understanding.

PS.- I'm bored <.<

[tyrantsyn]

Throw it in as ultima and have it do tier III to IV nuke damage and have it cause a - stat reduction to att, def, acc, mdef, and evasion. And yes make it actual work on things we would want it for "End game content"

[Babekeke]

BLM has Meteor under Elemental Seal. SCH has BOTH Embrava and Kaustra under their 2 Hour. WHM apparently has Arise coming.

*Crickets*

RDM has Refresh II... sorry, but I wouldn't get my hopes up if I was RDM main.

http://www.posters555.com/pictures/As-Good-As-It-Gets-%281997%29-picture-MOV_29d8d5d1_b.jpg

[Ladyofdragons]

I'd worry more about the list of things that need to be fixed for RDM before asking for an ultimate spell.

Very true I'd rather see rdm fixed a bit before we get an ultimate spell

[ManaKing]

Very true I'd rather see rdm fixed a bit before we get an ultimate spell

That's kinda the point... RDM isn't in good enough shape to get an Ultimate Spell? Oh sorry the job doesn't really function so we can't even consider it like other jobs? It's too retarded to be treated equally...

I understand you are trying to be realistic, but honestly the stance is self-defeating. SE doesn't need to give anyone anything else until they actually fix all of their jobs OR at least getting them in shape where it can receive an ultimate spell.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

RDM has Refresh II... sorry, but I wouldn't get my hopes up if I was RDM main.

http://www.posters555.com/pictures/As-Good-As-It-Gets-%281997%29-picture-MOV_29d8d5d1_b.jpg

I think most know that now, to be honest I think people post here out of principle now not because they think SE even read this section, or will ever listen.

[Zerich]

Guys, RDM is OP...you guys get to <Chainspell> <Warp II> <party> & afk <leech>es.
That's how Tanaka-san plays his RDM.

[Duelle]

It has little to do with one spell defining RDM more the fact all mages so far have gained unique spells for their line bar RDM.I still say the RDM fixes should come in first, then we can worry about an ultimate spell.

To stay with the topic, this is my contribution:


Red Trance
Lv. 99
Requires Chainspell Effect
Consumes all MP
Self-target

Places you in a trance, temporarily increasing all your skills and proficiencies for the duration of Chainspell or until you run out of MP.

Red Trance slowly consumes the RDM's MP at X% per tick. +30 to all stats. Magic, sword and dagger proficiencies temporarily raised to A+ and temporarily capped. Grants access to all sword and dagger WS. Spells that are native to RDM cost no MP, and instead speed up the rate at which your MP is consumed by Red Trance. Spells that are gained through subjobs still cost MP and consume their normal amounts of MP AND speed up the rate MP is consumed by Red Trance.

...I didn't say anything about it being balanced. I just wanted to contribute. =P

[saevel]

That's kinda the point... RDM isn't in good enough shape to get an Ultimate Spell? Oh sorry the job doesn't really function so we can't even consider it like other jobs? It's too retarded to be treated equally...

I understand you are trying to be realistic, but honestly the stance is self-defeating. SE doesn't need to give anyone anything else until they actually fix all of their jobs OR at least getting them in shape where it can receive an ultimate spell.

My only thought is that they do have something planned but simply haven't got to it yet. They've been systematically moving through the jobs and tweaking stuff over the past few months.

I know .. it's optimistic, but what the hell it's spring.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Systematically, i dont feel is the right word for it. I feel like theyre drawing names from a hat at the moment, and rdm is stuck on the seam at the bottom. Still i too hope we can get something shiny as well as the fixes we can use. Its just a shame for the devs, damned if they do, damned if they dont. No matter what, unless the fixes are ridiculous, SOMEONE will have their panties in a bunch.

I think rather than an ultimate spell id rather have some super JA for that. Once again double-cast would be nice, 10 minute recast, 5 min durration, 2x nuke/heal potency for 2x mp cost. Sweet.

[hiko]

gogogo Amnesia!!

[Kaisha]

I'd be fine if they were given Reflect as their endgame spell, as the devs have already been considering implementing the spell.

[Kristal]

I'd be fine if they were given Reflect as their endgame spell, as the devs have already been considering implementing the spell.

BLM x6 start casting Meteor on NM. RDM casts Reflect on RDM. NM steals the buffs of all players. NM reflects Meteor. NM fades away with a look of disappointment on his face.

[Quetzacoatl]

BLM x6 start casting Meteor on NM. RDM casts Reflect on RDM. NM steals the buffs of all players. NM reflects Meteor. NM fades away with a look of disappointment on his face.

What NM are you referring to? In b4 woosh

[Daniel_Hatcher]

BLM x6 start casting Meteor on NM. RDM casts Reflect on RDM. NM steals the buffs of all players. NM reflects Meteor. NM fades away with a look of disappointment on his face.

Impressive, never known Reflect to reflect AoE.

[ShadowViper]

Most rdms agree that the jobs usefullness has diminished greatly. I see recommendations all the time of new spells and new abilities yes cool sounding as they may be, such as reflect, but does that change the issues we have. The problem with the job is it lacks a role. With 20 jobs and only 18 spots in a full group a jack of all trade doesn't usually fit since you will have more defined roles in those 18 spots. Whm is the healer, blm the nuker, SCH the fall back but has its uniqness with dots, yet what does rdm have.

ALL our enfeebs minus merits are given to other jobs the only spell we have thats another job can't use is Refresh 2 and really there are jobs that provide similar functions in a aoe manor. SE going to adjust enfeebling but how does that help rdm exactly just means jobs that you would bring anyhow will be able to to help with enfeebs. Unusual that we are the masters of enfeebling and enhancing and yet all our abilities lie single target, where other jobs that are masters of other usefulness are also capable of doing our tasks in AOE fashions. This is the role RDM should of been in from the beginning the group buffer and the groups crowd control, atleast then there would be a reason to bring a rdm to events especially with one such as legion on the way.

[Duelle]

The problem with the job is it lacks a role.The job in concept doesn't and should not have a singular role, but instead have several roles to choose from given the job's versatility. The problem is that we can't openly choose our roles because of shoddy role distribution. You buff support and the melee side gets dumped on, you buff melee and the support side gets dumped on. Sure, my petty side says "well, they (support) had theirs for close to six years, now it's our (melee) turn", but in the spirit of fairness both sides should be getting some sort of improvement.

the only spell we have thats another job can't use is Refresh 2Considering RDM borrows from other jobs, this is not surprising nor a bad thing.

This is the role RDM should of been in from the beginning the group buffer and the groups crowd controlYou want to take us back to where we were at lv75 instead of letting our job move forward. I get that it's easier to get invited as support, but we've already had to put up with that since the cap was 75. I don't want RDM to go back to what it was then.

[saevel]

This is the role RDM should of been in from the beginning the group buffer and the groups crowd control

That's BRD and partially BLM (crowd control). At no point in FFXI's history did RDM ever get an aoe buff nor and aoe crowd control ability. The only party support ability RDM's ever had is Refresh, Haste and Cure IV. That's it, nothing else. WHM is the better support, BLM the better crowd control and BRD the better buffer. RDM's only got put into the party support role because WHM's had become scarce for XP pt's back in 04 and RDM was the next best thing.

SE needs to add new abilities and spells, buff out our enfeebling capacity and self buffing capacity, exactly as they stated they would.

[Kristal]

Impressive, never known Reflect to reflect AoE.

Don't apply logic to silly nonsense >_<

[ShadowViper]

The job in concept doesn't and should not have a singular role, but instead have several roles to choose from given the job's versatility. The problem is that we can't openly choose our roles because of shoddy role distribution. You buff support and the melee side gets dumped on, you buff melee and the support side gets dumped on. Sure, my petty side says "well, they (support) had theirs for close to six years, now it's our (melee) turn", but in the spirit of fairness both sides should be getting some sort of improvement.
Considering RDM borrows from other jobs, this is not surprising nor a bad thing.
You want to take us back to where we were at lv75 instead of letting our job move forward. I get that it's easier to get invited as support, but we've already had to put up with that since the cap was 75. I don't want RDM to go back to what it was then.

Simple MMO mechanics when a job doesn't fit in a role because its too diverse its usually not used. Regardless of where they buff are ability if we dont have a role in the group we aren't going to get invited for most events.

Yes we were never the aoe crowd control but we should have been on the Magic side not blm, we are the enfeebling specialist NOT blm. SCH too borrows from both jobs yet is more desierable for more events than RDM. Why cause it role is truly to be back up to either sides and is the DOT specialist (dmg/healing). RDM is suppose to be the enfeebling and enhancing specialist yet all our enfeebs minus merits are capable of being done by other jobs and most our enhancing is self target only, even sch is beter in these areas because they are capable of AOE'n most the spells even thought it doesn't get them natively.

At 75 we were close enough to the main jobs we are "borrowing" from that we could help support and fill in those roles, now that lvs have increased that gap has gotten bigger and SCH has stayed closer to those jobs, which is where it should be. As for taking the job back to where the job was at 75 as a support then yeah, look at our main skills - enfeebling and enhancing - these are support skills not dd not healing yet again because we got so focused on "borrowing" from other jobs we have falling behind other jobs in both those areas because we don't get spells that show that we are the specialist for those fields.

Now that jobs and roles are being rebalanced we now have the chance to balance the job to whats already in game, we can't be main healers thats whms role, we can't be main nukers thats BLM, we are not dd and we are not tanks. So with the skill set that we have had from the beginning where is our role, back to enfeebler and enahcer who can help with healing/nuking/dd/tanking not replace them.

[ShadowViper]

That's BRD and partially BLM (crowd control). At no point in FFXI's history did RDM ever get an aoe buff nor and aoe crowd control ability. The only party support ability RDM's ever had is Refresh, Haste and Cure IV. That's it, nothing else. WHM is the better support, BLM the better crowd control and BRD the better buffer. RDM's only got put into the party support role because WHM's had become scarce for XP pt's back in 04 and RDM was the next best thing.

SE needs to add new abilities and spells, buff out our enfeebling capacity and self buffing capacity, exactly as they stated they would.

RDM was always used as support mainly for refresh and haste, it was also always used as the back up healer. It was extremely rare for you to be asked to come cause we need an enfeebler, rarer to be asked to come as a nuker and non existent to come to melee. Yes I hated being that 3 spell mage stuck in an endless cycle of refresh/haste and thats why having AOE versions of most of our enhancing spells would be a nice change it would allow us to do more and be benificial to the group giving a true desire to have a rdm in group. Most our Self casting enhancing stack with bards songs and we have some enhancing abilties that even bards dont get.

Yes we started taking over the roles of healer with WHMs in shortage and because with our endless mp pool and fast cast ability we could keep up with healing just as well as a whm this again is why SE should never give RDM cure 5 to prevent this from happening again.

As for crowd control yes thats partially brds ability, bard though can't AOE para, silence, grav, ..... RDM SHOULD be able to do all this. BLM yes got breakga and sleepga but why that never made sense we are the enfeebling specialist not blm, blm got AOE nukes (should have bioga and aoe dark based spells) just as WHM got aoe healing and divine spells since thats what those jobs specialize in. Yet, both these jobs step all over our main focus of enfeebling and enhancing and get AOE of that too. What makes more sense sending in your main heal into AOE dmg range to buff your party or send in the RDM (who should be melee'n anyhow to be maximizing his role) to do the same buff.
Again just because it never has been that way doesn't mean it can't be changed and fixed now especially since thats what SE is doing anyhow with rebalancing.

We need more self buffing capacity, are you serious. Giving us more SELF anything isn't going to help us in a party situation and this goes back to the issue SE had with RDM being too OP we were able to buff ourselves into being self sufficient and able to solo things that we were most likely never meant to, fun as it was doesn't help us for any group event. As for abilities no again, any ability would come with a nasty timer and we were designed to be able to jump from one action to another (thus lack of a ton of abilities). An ability I have seen mentioned for years from rdm would be allowing us to cast a self target buff on others (similiar to sch) if this was done then at best it would be 3 min timer, what would the point be so every few minutes you get to reapply that buff on another player? And again the idea of rdm being able to quickly adapt a situation and cast whats needed again would no longer apply.

[Kristal]

We need maor Gain-CHR if we're going to charm the SE devs...

[ShadowViper]

We need maor Gain-CHR if we're going to charm the SE devs...

Boost-CHR (we should be buffing everyone before a WHM who should be focused on healing)

[saevel]

RDM was always used as support mainly for refresh and haste, it was also always used as the back up healer

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

[Duelle]

Simple MMO mechanics when a job doesn't fit in a role because its too diverse its usually not used. Regardless of where they buff are ability if we dont have a role in the group we aren't going to get invited for most events.Because most players tunnel vision themselves to see one role per job, leaving jobs like RDM in the dark. There's a reason MMO design has moved in the direction of having hybrid classes that can put focus on one of several possible roles. It pisses less people off and opens up freedom of gameplay in group content. SE and RDM just need to be dragged into the new century of hybrid design and drop the BS.

At 75 we were close enough to the main jobs we are "borrowing" from that we could help support and fill in those roles, now that lvs have increased that gap has gotten bigger and SCH has stayed closer to those jobs, which is where it should be. As for taking the job back to where the job was at 75 as a support then yeah, look at our main skills - enfeebling and enhancing - these are support skills not dd not healing yet again because we got so focused on "borrowing" from other jobs we have falling behind other jobs in both those areas because we don't get spells that show that we are the specialist for those fields.False. At 75 you brought a RDM if you needed heals+haste+refresh, needed CS+Stun or needed someone to help the BLM with crowd control in dynamis. Our swords mattered little, as did our nukes.

Again, you want the invites that come with having something very few people are willing to do (the number of people who rode the Refresh gravy train far outnumbered the people who would willingly level BRD). I don't want our job to go down that route again. Not without proper alternatives within RDM for the front liners and the melee camp.


When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.I like this idea. I'd preffer JAs and modes instead of actual spells, but I wouldn't mind getting something that gave us more MAB or Cure Potency and such.

Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of timeThis falls under absolutes. We need less of this and more of actual debuffs.

[saevel]

I was just throwing idea's out there. Also after that I said the monster should gain immense resistance that would taper off after 5 min, thus it would be impossible to spam that spell. You cast it and for a brief period of time, 5 ~ 15s maybe, the target wouldn't use TP moves. Gives a short breather to everyone and precious time to heal / remove status ailments or whatever. Again just an idea. I really want stat down spells better then the elemental enfeebles.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I like this idea. I'd preffer JAs and modes instead of actual spells, but I wouldn't mind getting something that gave us more MAB or Cure Potency and such.

We need this in the "actual" spells Faith and Bravery (only one can be up), I definitely don't want JA's as there is no real need, and spells can gain the benefit of being improved on by more enhancing which is more suited to RDM.

Could be:

Faith
Increases Magical damage and accuracy.
Lv. 99 RDM

Magic Accuracy: 10~25
Magic Attack Bonus: 5~15

Bravery
Increases melee accuracy and attack.
Lv. 99 RDM

Accuracy: 5~15
Attack: 5~15%

While I think RDM should get more buffs for party members these two would fall in line with Temper and Enspells in that they can only augment the RDM's strength.

These can be later increased via gear change on cast, same with temper which I'd personally give a 5% Chance of Triple Attack on under the guise of Augments "Temper".

Personally I'd go along the line of RDM gaining semi-strong spells to fall in line with: Making themselves demi-gods while potentially adding a tier II weaker version in line with Phalanx II for party targetable Such as Temper II: 5~10% DA.

As for not much space left for new spells that's down to SE to remove said limitation, not work around it.

[saevel]

Now to add to what you said DH. Introduce a debuff the RDM casts that acts like DNC's sambas. Every melee who hits the monster would get a buff or their attacks would be modified in some fashion. This would fall perfectly in line with what SE said about making other people strong by debuffing the monster, but somehow I doubt they'll do this. I can dream.

[Ophannus]

SE said they wouldn't add stances or spells that buff one aspect of magic and reduce physical abilities or vice versa. They also stated they wouldn't want to add abilities or spells that add mutually exclusive enhancements to either physical or magic. SCH is the class that chooses between white or black magic speciality. RDM, SE said doesn't choose between white and black magic or physical, RDM was supposed to be able to access all of it simultaneously albeit weaker. So SCH gets stronger WHM spells and BLM spells because they have almost no physical prowess. Since RDM has better physical capabilities, we have weakened spells or whatever. So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

SE said they wouldn't add stances or spells that buff one aspect of magic and reduce physical abilities or vice versa. They also stated they wouldn't want to add abilities or spells that add mutually exclusive enhancements to either physical or magic. SCH is the class that chooses between white or black magic speciality. RDM, SE said doesn't choose between white and black magic or physical, RDM was supposed to be able to access all of it simultaneously albeit weaker. So SCH gets stronger WHM spells and BLM spells because they have almost no physical prowess. Since RDM has better physical capabilities, we have weakened spells or whatever. So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

My idea does improve only one aspect at a time, but doesn't gimp another. So Faith wouldn't make melee worse, the spells are no different to Temper or enspells which are strictly melee buffs, which SE already gave to RDM. These spells fall in line strictly with RDM without potentially putting them at OP in all areas.

However, these become less if SE actually put RDM back on the gear it was on instead of putting BLU on it when historically BLU wear only cloth armour whereas RDM equipped both cloth and light armour.

[ShadowViper]

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enahcning, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support. The problem was it was poorly implimented, mainly because all our enfeebs came from another job plus the issue with enfeebs on nms anyhow and our enhancing was self buff only which doesn't really do anything to benifit a group setting.

If we had a spell to buff our selves before we do anything to make it more effecient than we are just another form of a sch and it slows us down from being able to quickly add support to where its needed. Temper was nice and all but again most complained about it not being able to cast it on others. If anything rdm should get a passive ability that allows self buffs to be applied to others around us, if that was the cast then DD would never complain about the rdm on front lines because they are getting buffed at the same time. As for us buffing taking over brd non of our self buffs are truly brd song replacements. As for enfeebling, even this thread was started on gaining an ultimate enfeeb that no one else has, well in that sense alone wouldn't that break the mold of us only borrowing spells from other jobs, so why is it ok to break the mold by gaining new spells and abilities that others dont have but not ok doing so in a manner that gives us a real role in the group. Just because we are given a role won't mean we wont be able to do other functions allowing us to stay a hybrid job, but one with a purpose which we lack.

[saevel]

SE said they wouldn't add stances or spells that buff one aspect of magic and reduce physical abilities or vice versa. They also stated they wouldn't want to add abilities or spells that add mutually exclusive enhancements to either physical or magic. SCH is the class that chooses between white or black magic speciality. RDM, SE said doesn't choose between white and black magic or physical, RDM was supposed to be able to access all of it simultaneously albeit weaker. So SCH gets stronger WHM spells and BLM spells because they have almost no physical prowess. Since RDM has better physical capabilities, we have weakened spells or whatever. So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

Actually they said they wouldn't create stances, they said nothing about self buffs. Temper is by definition a physical only buff, same as Gain-INT vs Gain-DEX is exclusive mage and melee buffs.

[saevel]

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enahcning, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support.

WHM's get the same enhancing as /SCH and actually have spells they can give others that benefit from it.

RDM has ~one~ spell that scales with enhancing magic and can be cast on other players, Phalanx II.

[tyrantsyn]

RDM has ~one~ spell that scales with enhancing magic and can be cast on other players, Phalanx II.

Huh? When did this happen?!

[Duelle]

Yes two spells doesn't make us specialized as support, but our highest rated magic skills of enfeebling and enhancing, which we happen to have the highest of both for any job, does say we should be specialized support.By your logic every DRK should be using Scythe because it is their A+ weapon and have highest skill rating out of every job. The reality being that every DRK worth his salt uses Great Sword.

If we had a spell to buff our selves before we do anything to make it more effecient than we are just another form of a sch and it slows us down from being able to quickly add support to where its needed.While remaining a balanced class because we shouldn't be able to do everything at once.

Temper was nice and all but again most complained about it not being able to cast it on others.Because some thought it would guarantee them a spot for events. I didn't want any more cycles, so I was praying that it was self-cast only.

If anything rdm should get a passive ability that allows self buffs to be applied to others around us, if that was the cast then DD would never complain about the rdm on front lines because they are getting buffed at the same time.I could live with this, under the condition that we get Renew as mentioned in Hideka's thread. If we're gonna be a walking buff totem, then we're gonna make it real easy to keep buffs up and have it not get in the way of our melee time.

As for enfeebling, even this thread was started on gaining an ultimate enfeeb that no one else has, well in that sense alone wouldn't that break the mold of us only borrowing spells from other jobs, so why is it ok to break the mold by gaining new spells and abilities that others dont have but not ok doing so in a manner that gives us a real role in the group.Because settling for more of the same crap we had at 75 no longer cuts it.

[Kristal]

So to sum up, SE would never implement a stance where a RDM's abilities in one aspect get boosted at the cost of another(i.e like dark arts/light arts/hasso-type abilities where Phys+/Magic- or Magic+/Phys-)

Composure? It's a bit of an oddball, but it boosts melee accuracy by reducing magic recast. (Increasing buff duration just means less time lost meleeing due to recasting buffs :)

[saevel]

Maintaining your self buffs is pretty easy with Composure + Emp+2 feet and cape. The only part that sucks is when they go, they tend to all go at the same time. Murphy's law being what is it, it will always be the absolute worst time for them to fall.

I would absolutely love giving others my super buffs. I would absolutely loath spending all my time staring at recast numbers counting seconds till I can spam the next buff on generic melee DD #4. Cycles suck the fun right out of the game.

[tyrantsyn]

posted in the wrong thread so i'm moving this to the enhancing magic (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/21597-New-enhancing-spell-for-RDM-to-promote-party-support.?p=294740#post294740) thread.

[Cowardlybabooon]

I think rdm died when convert and refresh became subbable and of course abyssea didn't help cause whm became awesome with unlimited MP. RDM needs just one unique MAJOR party contribution. Not some little % increase, but like an AOE devotion every 3 mins or something.

[ShadowViper]

Maintaining your self buffs is pretty easy with Composure + Emp+2 feet and cape. The only part that sucks is when they go, they tend to all go at the same time. Murphy's law being what is it, it will always be the absolute worst time for them to fall.

I would absolutely love giving others my super buffs. I would absolutely loath spending all my time staring at recast numbers counting seconds till I can spam the next buff on generic melee DD #4. Cycles suck the fun right out of the game.

I dont mind the cycle if its a variety of spells to improve the group the problem with the cycle casting that I have is we are constantly waiting ont he recast of the same spell so we can cast it on the next person, even though duration has improved its still cast on each individual player till they have it so you eat up a few minutes or recasting 1-3 spells (fitting spells in between the recast of another). Having AOE buffs of some sort, aura, self cast applies to surrounding, or target another member and apply to their surroundings) is the best way to solve this issue and looking at the format set for the other starting mages it also makes sense for the rdm to do this.

One of the most frustrating things about the job years ago for me was when buffs started going down and because you cured someone or raised or ssomething and your cycle was off a few seconds someone would have to remind ya that it just went down, even worst when your back to the cycle and haven't made it to that person and your waiting on the recast of the spell and they are complaining about not having it. Or your fighting a mob that has dispel haven't finished your cycle onto all dd of haste then then someone you already casted says they were dispellled and need it again and they dont get your still casting on others.

Alot of rdms get mad that sch was added, I think it was a much needed job, more of a pure mage closer to whm or blm than rdm which would allow rdm to melee more and be closer to what a blu is but instead of DMG focused fighter be more of a support focused fighter, the problem though is now sch can AOE are self cast buffs with proper sub we still can't do it naturally due to lack of 'gas of those spells.

Cycles do suck but it sucks when its a cycle of the same spell just to get it onto every member.

The thing that is most missed with RDM is we are truly the only job that is defined by our sub which is a horrible concept. WHM can go w/o a sub or w/ a dd sub and its still able to heal and do its job. DD can have any sub including a mage sub and its still a dd may not be as effecient but its still doing its main role. RDM now more than ever is so dependent on sub that if you come /whm you have already told the group your a healer you come /blm your there to help nukes or stun, /sch to be a bit more flexible but still most /sch ask what role they are needed as to set light/dark arts any /dd and you came to melee, but yet non of that has anything to do with our top skills of enhancing and or enfeebling. Every other job subs help enhance their group role or add more utility, this includes other hybrid jobs.

[Duelle]

Maintaining your self buffs is pretty easy with Composure + Emp+2 feet and cape. The only part that sucks is when they go, they tend to all go at the same time. Murphy's law being what is it, it will always be the absolute worst time for them to fall.Problem is really that the more important buffs go down together. Enspell, Haste, Temper, Phalanx and Spikes all have the same duration. The reason I like renew so much is because it would solve that problem with ease, as it is a self buff that resets the duration of buffs on you. I would obviously tweak it (have it not affect Blink, Stoneskin, Protect, Shell, Reraise for one), but it would certainly make the prep period we need to buff up less of a hinderance in terms of upkeep.

[Kristal]

Protect, Shell and Reraise (long-duration buffs) aren't affected by Composure, so Renew wouldn't work on them either. Blink, Aquaveil and Stoneskin aren't a problem, because it would only affect duration, not remaining charge.

Bit off-topic:
Maybe RDM could get unique tier II enhancing spells like we did with Phalanx II:

Blink II : absorbs more attacks, aoe only consumes one shadow
Aquaveil II : absorbs more hits, regenerates over time (+1/tick, unless hit for >0 damage in last 3 seconds)
Stoneskin II : absorbs more damage, regenerates over time (+25/tick, unless affected by slip damage)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Protect, Shell and Reraise (long-duration buffs) aren't affected by Composure, so Renew wouldn't work on them either. Blink, Aquaveil and Stoneskin aren't a problem, because it would only affect duration, not remaining charge.

Bit off-topic:
Maybe RDM could get unique tier II enhancing spells like we did with Phalanx II:

Blink II : absorbs more attacks, aoe only consumes one shadow
Aquaveil II : absorbs more hits, regenerates over time (+1/tick, unless hit for >0 damage in last 3 seconds)
Stoneskin II : absorbs more damage, regenerates over time (+25/tick, unless affected by slip damage)

Problem with this is unless they are party targetable it's a waste of a spell slot when these should just be the benefits of enhancing skill on the main spells.

Blink could be 3 shadows (as you can see I upped it to 3 of the bat) upto 300 skill then change like so:

4 @ 350
5 @ 400
6 @ 425
7 @ 450
8 @ 475
9 @ 500 (cap)

I'd also have AoE absorb upto 4 shadows and block the damage.

Stoneskin's cap should be upped to 450 upto 550 with Gear

Aquaveil is an odd one as I don't currently know the limits.

For me as far as RDM goes it should go: Tier I (the strongest) is self-target only, Tier II (the weaker version) should be party-targetable, so as I said Stoneskin II, Temper II etc... Should be party targetable with a semi-long duration but a bit weaker effects. (10~ DA) (350 StoneSkin) and so on.

[idx1]

The ability to change job on the field to something more useful.

[Duelle]

For me as far as RDM goes it should go: Tier I (the strongest) is self-target only, Tier II (the weaker version) should be party-targetable, so as I said Stoneskin II, Temper II etc... Should be party targetable with a semi-long duration but a bit weaker effects. (10~ DA) (350 StoneSkin) and so on.The issue I have with this line of thinking is that the moment we get it it becomes our responsibility. Since these are buffs and could possibly work with Accession, we then become handcuffed to /SCH, which means bye bye melee gear and melee sub. I'd rather both options become useful before we start getting spells like that.

[saevel]

The issue I have with this line of thinking is that the moment we get it it becomes our responsibility. Since these are buffs and could possibly work with Accession, we then become handcuffed to /SCH, which means bye bye melee gear and melee sub. I'd rather both options become useful before we start getting spells like that.

And offensive buff that is other target-able but not aoe is going to shackle RDM back into cycles. SE won't be giving RDM any such buffs.

I'd hope any "ultimate spell" would be some bad a$$ nearly broke enfeebling magic. Impact was actually a good idea, -20 to all stats. Attaching it to a piece of gear for "every mage" and making it ridiculously expensive while leaving it underpowered is what kills it. They could create a single spell that needs to be case under Sab and inflicts -40~50 to all stats.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The issue I have with this line of thinking is that the moment we get it it becomes our responsibility. Since these are buffs and could possibly work with Accession, we then become handcuffed to /SCH, which means bye bye melee gear and melee sub. I'd rather both options become useful before we start getting spells like that.

These would be RDM only so they wouldn't work with Accession, SE already said we wont get AoE, but we have spells like Haste and Phalanx II so the argument they don't want us to self-target buff goes out the window as much as I hate Cycles.

[Asymptotic]

The issue I have with this line of thinking is that the moment we get it it becomes our responsibility. Since these are buffs and could possibly work with Accession, we then become handcuffed to /SCH, which means bye bye melee gear and melee sub. I'd rather both options become useful before we start getting spells like that.

"I don't want spells that give players motivation to invite me because I want to melee."

[Duelle]

These would be RDM only so they wouldn't work with Accession, SE already said we wont get AoE, but we have spells like Haste and Phalanx II so the argument they don't want us to self-target buff goes out the window as much as I hate Cycles.Which means we're stuck on cycles again. We should move forwards, not backwards.

"I don't want spells that give players motivation to invite me because I want to melee."More like "I'm sick of RDM only being about casting stuff on others all the time with little else to bring to the table, especially when taking into account that the job is a hybrid and not a one-trick buffbot". If RDM had the option to tail one other DPS, use haste (or refresh, if you're into that sort of thing) on them while I melee, WS, toss some off-heals, remove status ailments off both of us (/DNC) and had some way to weave nukes in there, and said gameplay was open for more than just duo/campaign/abyssea parties, then I might be a little happier with where we stand. It isn't because of "lolmeleeRDM" and due to not being "efficient" (DPS, proc systems being RDM-unfriendly). You fix melee RDM to mean more than just solo toy and abyssea show off and then I can start giving suggestions on what to do in terms of support. Up until then, give me self-buffs, a way to easily maintain said self-buffs and fix our job (gear, skill proficiencies, WS access, etc).

With the way things are now, I'll be happier the day we get self-cast Enflare (as suggested on the JP forums for our "ultimate spell", by the way) than the day we get <insert crutch buff to force parties to invite a RDM for events>, if only because it gives us more of the same crap instead of actually fixing anything.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Which means we're stuck on cycles again. We should move forwards, not backwards.

SE already stated RDM would never get AoE, so this is the only way we'll get any enhancing magic that's not self-target.

[saevel]

SE already stated RDM would never get AoE, so this is the only way we'll get any enhancing magic that's not self-target.

And SE already stated they want us to buff ourselves and support the party by enfeebling.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Sounds fine by me, beats being blamed for a party's failings because rdm is easy to scapegoat, beats spending hours upon hours clicking two buttons endlessly, and sure as hell beats the attitude i get from players. "I dont want invites to be a buffbot in a horridly inefficient way, because i want to melee!"

As far as im concerned, It beats the alternative. Not to mention i could play other jobs if i just want to do ONE THING. So i do some nuking, meleeing, and healing as the situation calls for it. Even in einherjar recently with 6 people on chamber 3(wing1), i ended up meleeing and matching(/outdamaging) the thf, mnk and pup (and whatever the last dd was...) and ended up healing and tanking during the boss fight. While keeping the whm refreshed. And if i can keep doing that in old events, then thats just fine by me!

[saevel]

Sounds fine by me, beats being blamed for a party's failings because rdm is easy to scapegoat, beats spending hours upon hours clicking two buttons endlessly, and sure as hell beats the attitude i get from players. "I dont want invites to be a buffbot in a horridly inefficient way, because i want to melee!"

As far as im concerned, It beats the alternative. Not to mention i could play other jobs if i just want to do ONE THING. So i do some nuking, meleeing, and healing as the situation calls for it. Even in einherjar recently with 6 people on chamber 3(wing1), i ended up meleeing and matching(/outdamaging) the thf, mnk and pup (and whatever the last dd was...) and ended up healing and tanking during the boss fight. While keeping the whm refreshed. And if i can keep doing that in old events, then thats just fine by me!

Outside of the "brick wall with infinite hp" scenario's RDM actually does really well. Can't say enough about how hard we are to kill and how many ways we have to screw with our target. Our one weakness is the "Super Mega Final Boss" fights where we tend to be better off focusing on support of the buffed hard hitters. SE's idea is for us to do that by making the target boss monster weaker, I like that idea, now they need to actually execute it and not fail doing so. It doesn't help that everything from 80+ has been nothing but the aforementioned boss fights. Meleeing on City Tier 1 ~ 3 isn't hard, Tier IV's (@90) were a different story. Same with Jeuno / Zilart, Tier 1 ~ 2 is easy but on Tier III it's a bit crazy (@95). And we see the same thing now with Jeuno II, early tiers are easy but the Tier 6's you shouldn't be meleeing on.

I want to see a remade Limbus type event where you must kill fodder / go through the raid killing minor boss's until at the end you have a "Mega Boss". SE seems too focused on turning out crap "pop boss, fight boss, don't get loot" x 100 time sinks.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Seconded, im still the kind who would love an instanced, no time limit event, however im aware that puts some load on the server, id love to see a stamina based event (preferably point earning and exchange for reward type) where you and a few friends could put a day aside, and spend 8+ hours wading armpit deep through mobs, even if fodder with an occasional boss.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

And SE already stated they want us to buff ourselves and support the party by enfeebling.

Disproved by Phalanx II and Refresh II.

[tyrantsyn]

Sounds fine by me, beats being blamed for a party's failings because rdm is easy to scapegoat,

Normally it's more a players short coming's than a Job, I don't think I've ever heard any one blame a job for a loss.


Which means we're stuck on cycles again. We should move forwards, not backwards.

Does any one really still do cycles?

[Crimson_Slasher]

Maybe on your server Tyrantsyn, but if i had a dollar for every time ive seen a good rdm or whm doing their job, be it meleeing, or curing, or buffing, get blamed for something outside their control (Like getting doomed and not being able to remove it on chloris or bukhis, or muted and dieing cause they couldnt last it out) Then id never have to pay my subscription fee ever again. And im barely exagerating. Jobs like whm, and rdm, and sch take a lot of flack, and not much praise to offset it, just cause some 'hot Shot' job steals the spotlight and "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF YOU WERENT WSING FOR 3K!" when it should be "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF OUR WHM WASNT HEALING YOU FOR 2K EACH HIT BEFORE YOU GOT MAULED!"

[tyrantsyn]

Maybe on your server Tyrantsyn, but if i had a dollar for every time ive seen a good rdm or whm doing their job, be it meleeing, or curing, or buffing, get blamed for something outside their control (Like getting doomed and not being able to remove it on chloris or bukhis, or muted and dieing cause they couldnt last it out) Then id never have to pay my subscription fee ever again. And im barely exagerating. Jobs like whm, and rdm, and sch take a lot of flack, and not much praise to offset it, just cause some 'hot Shot' job steals the spotlight and "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF YOU WERENT WSING FOR 3K!" when it should be "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF OUR WHM WASNT HEALING YOU FOR 2K EACH HIT BEFORE YOU GOT MAULED!"

Well, seem's pretty ridiculous any one would think that way. Anyway this is kind of off topic. So I'm going to drop it.




With the way things are now, I'll be happier the day we get self-cast Enflare (as suggested on the JP forums for our "ultimate spell", by the way) than the day we get <insert crutch buff to force parties to invite a RDM for events>, if only because it gives us more of the same crap instead of actually fixing anything.

They actual suggested that? Wow I wonder how they figured that would work?

[cidbahamut]

"I don't want spells that give players motivation to invite me because I want to melee."

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/063/arguecat.png
------------------------------------------------------





More on topic: since SE seems set on "self cast buffs ONRY", how about this?

Buff Spell
Boosts everything by X%
and I do mean EVERYTHING.

[saevel]

Maybe on your server Tyrantsyn, but if i had a dollar for every time ive seen a good rdm or whm doing their job, be it meleeing, or curing, or buffing, get blamed for something outside their control (Like getting doomed and not being able to remove it on chloris or bukhis, or muted and dieing cause they couldnt last it out) Then id never have to pay my subscription fee ever again. And im barely exagerating. Jobs like whm, and rdm, and sch take a lot of flack, and not much praise to offset it, just cause some 'hot Shot' job steals the spotlight and "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF YOU WERENT WSING FOR 3K!" when it should be "OH MAN WE WOULDNT HAVE WON IF OUR WHM WASNT HEALING YOU FOR 2K EACH HIT BEFORE YOU GOT MAULED!"

This pretty much. People don't realize how much work being support is, and it's a completely thankless job. And should something bad happen, the very first person they try to blame is the support / healer. They used to blame the BRD's until those became rare, now the BRD could be naked and singing two buffs and nobody would blame them for fear of making them leave the group.

[Calatilla]

Two spells do not a specialize make, which has been my point the entire time. We are not and never were a buffing job, we had two spells, one that restores a precious commodity at the time (MP) and the other that made melee's fight better and exponentially scaled with other buffs. That's it, nothing else, Cure IV is only enough in low damage merit parties on anything of HNM status it's just not enough, never has been, and this fact become painfully clear after level 80.

We're not invited for enfeebling because SE has gimped the crap out of enfeebling magic and refused to introduce new spells that are actually functional. Break is just a short duration earth based sleep and about as useful, addle is nerfed on HNMs, and that's it. I've said it many times and I'll keep saying it, SE needs to give us newer enfeebles that actually do something. Lower the monsters stats, lower it's TP gain, lower it's offensive damage potential and such. Give us a move that temporarily locks out the target's TP moves for a short period of time, make the target gain immense resistance after the first use that slowly tapers off over 5min.

When I state self buffing I'm referring to the ability to alter our stats to optimize for one role over another. Temper is +5~20% DA not 20% static, the RDM needs a 500 skill build and I've met very few who have, maybe it'll increase who knows. We need other spells similar to Temper that give us +FC, +Cure Pot, +MAB, ect. They should overwrite each other so as not to be overpowering. This would allow a RDM to adjust and tailor their stats to the specific role their performing.

And seriously, if you want +15~25 of a stat ask the WHM or the BRD, good luck.

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.

[Duelle]

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.Considering that SCH can't melee, not really. Sure, they got the "use a spell to open a Skillchain" thing we should have gotten as a lv75 Job Ability, but still.

[Calatilla]

Considering that SCH can't melee, not really. Sure, they got the "use a spell to open a Skillchain" thing we should have gotten as a lv75 Job Ability, but still.

I was referring to changing stats to fit the role, higher cure potency, more Matk etc, which is essentially what SCH does.

[Duelle]

I was referring to changing stats to fit the role, higher cure potency, more Matk etc, which is essentially what SCH does.SCH does it through JAs, we would do it through spells. We also wouldn't have additional mechanics tied to our spells. On concept it works, and even fits the whole "RDM uses magic to enhance themselves" bit.

[saevel]

You just described SCH, which is what RDM should have been from the start.

SCH should of never been made a job, everything it does should of been broken up between WHM, BLM and RDM. SE was trying to make a better sub for WHM then /SMN and ended up creating an entirely new job out of it.

[Duelle]

SCH should of never been made a job, everything it does should of been broken up between WHM, BLM and RDM. SE was trying to make a better sub for WHM then /SMN and ended up creating an entirely new job out of it.I guess, though I don't have much of an issue with SCH (I actually enjoy the fact that it's a pure caster, and always figured it would take that spotlight from our job to allow us to move on). The only real problem I have with that job is that we should have gotten Immanence under a name more fitting to RDM on a 1 minute cooldown. As a job ability it pretty much goes to waste on SCH. Kinda pointless that we have magic burst bonus but no way to guarantee skillchains to take advantage of it. Especially so in a setting where self-skillchains are not exactly uncommon.

[saevel]

Well it's spilled milk now, nothing to do but more on. The real problem with SCH is that this game is too narrow with it's magic system, there simply isn't room to fit in multiple specialist jobs which leaves jobs fighting for slots. Between RDM and SCH a SCH will win on everything not melee related, the buff better, heal better and nuke better, could even enfeeble better once you consider how little difference between Slow I / II there is. SCH is the better version of "Pink Mage".

[hideka]

i know how to fix redmage. they need a new weaponskill.



nah im just kidding >_>
see what SE dosent realize
is that when a job is broken, the only way to fix it is to over power it past everything else, and then adjust it down to balanced level. doing small upgrades does not work.
case and point dragoon.
case and point black mage
case and point white mage
i could keep doing this but id get bored.

this is what my take was on how to fix redmage

[Duelle]

this is what my take was on how to fix redmageAs I mentioned in your thread, I LOVED Renew and hope the devs implement it. That one spell would make my life a lot easier and melee gameplay a lot smoother.

Well it's spilled milk now, nothing to do but move on. The real problem with SCH is that this game is too narrow with it's magic system, there simply isn't room to fit in multiple specialist jobs which leaves jobs fighting for slots. Between RDM and SCH a SCH will win on everything not melee related, the buff better, heal better and nuke better, could even enfeeble better once you consider how little difference between Slow I / II there is. SCH is the better version of "Pink Mage".That's the downside of the Final Fantasy IP, though. Same case as it is with enfeebles. Though at the least each job should have it's own version of certain spells, if only so that spellcasting is mechanically sound rather than something that favors one job over another.

[saevel]

As I mentioned in your thread, I LOVED Renew and hope the devs implement it. That one spell would make my life a lot easier and melee gameplay a lot smoother.
That's the downside of the Final Fantasy IP, though. Same case as it is with enfeebles. Though at the least each job should have it's own version of certain spells, if only so that spellcasting is mechanically sound rather than something that favors one job over another.

Honestly I believe RDM's native FC should be redone. We should be casting spells at 2~3x the speed, not 1.5~1.6. Give RDM a JT that makes FC 3x more effective at casting (but not recast). Would at least draw a distinction between RDM and SCH.

[ManaKing]

Yeah, when we have the highest FC by JT and other jobs are casting magic at around the same speed, it's just kind of insulting. That would be like SAM being outdone in Store TP or BLM not being the hardest nuker....

On Ultimate Spell, I would want a debuff, since that is what we are supposed to be the best at. If we could cast Impact II and it did everything Impact does but better and cheaper I would be satisfied. Make it work on everything. You could even make it stack with Impact I so that we can enjoy Convert and Spontaneity for Double Impact.

http://www.soundonsight.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/double_impact2.jpg

[Duelle]

Honestly I believe RDM's native FC should be redone. We should be casting spells at 2~3x the speed, not 1.5~1.6. Give RDM a JT that makes FC 3x more effective at casting (but not recast). Would at least draw a distinction between RDM and SCH.There's still the issue of function, which I frankly don't know how to fix outside of what some may consider arbitrary adjustments for the sake of being different.

[saevel]

There's still the issue of function, which I frankly don't know how to fix outside of what some may consider arbitrary adjustments for the sake of being different.

Unfortunately as long as FFXI retains its current magic system, then this won't really ever change. RDM was never invited for debuffs, even when they made a difference (XP vs IT). Plainly speaking, this game has too many jobs and not enough variety to make them all distinct. MMO's tend to be balanced around three types of class's / jobs, the defensive hate holding type (Tank), the offensive kill it now but with paper-thin army type (DD) and the keep us alive / make us stronger type (Support). The dev's short sightedness and refusal to admit when their wrong as lead to the complete destruction of the first type (Tank). Rampant AOE's make "tanking" worthless, what use is it holding the monsters hate on one person when everyone else within 15 feet will die anyway. The coupe de grace was the enmity system vastly favoring damage over anything else, so even the monster doesn't immediately kill everyone around the tank, the tank won't be holding hate and thus not tanking. So now we're down to 20 jobs fighting over two types of slots, (DD) and (Support) and since a hybrid like RDM isn't the best DD we're then shuffled into the support role. We're not very good at support, but support doesn't need to be very good to be useful. This is why there are those who want to see the return of "pink mage", a RDM who can support, even if at an inferior level, can still be made into something useful in super elite content.

SE needs to radically redo game mechanics to fix the class diversity issue. A short term fix for only RDM would be to make a set of powerful enfeebles, then we would actually have a specialty / function. It may not be the absolute most desired, but it would be something unique and helpful.

[Duelle]

Unfortunately as long as FFXI retains its current magic system, then this won't really ever change. RDM was never invited for debuffs, even when they made a difference (XP vs IT).Well, debuffs work as a tertiary trait or part of a class, not as the main purpose of a class. The only real place where it sort of worked was everquest, but that was because of party and raid sizes. Secondly, stat stacking should have never been part of enfeebling. One because it plays into the mess created by gear swaps, secondly because it is such a minor facet that it should scale off one of the blanket stats for magic, or perhaps just scale with enfeebling skill (no MND or INT or any of that, and perhaps even no variances in potency short of enfeebling skill).

The dev's short sightedness and refusal to admit when their wrong has lead to the complete destruction of the first type (Tank). Rampant AOE's make "tanking" worthless, what use is it holding the monsters hate on one person when everyone else within 15 feet will die anyway. The coupe de grace was the enmity system vastly favoring damage over anything else, so even the monster doesn't immediately kill everyone around the tank, the tank won't be holding hate and thus not tanking.The only reason damage has gotten so out of control is basically that complete avoidance has been allowed to run rampant instead of fixed when it got started. Yes, I'm once again pointing the finger to Utsusemi. If you want to keep things balanced, then yes the possibility of avoiding damage entirely leads to having to create mobs that deal a ton of damage in order to challenge and tax the healers as well as put survivability on the line.

Adding to this mess is the fact that enmity has a cap instead of constantly fluctuating. I don't know if the devs thought we would never hit the caps when they designed the basic enmity system (considering they never counted on people swapping gear mid-combat...), but that part of the game is in dire need of changes, along with role assignments for tanking. The latter would be difficult to implement, but goes hand-in-hand with what tanking is all about.

So now we're down to 20 jobs fighting over two types of slots, (DD) and (Support) and since a hybrid like RDM isn't the best DD we're then shuffled into the support role. We're not very good at support, but support doesn't need to be very good to be useful. This is why there are those who want to see the return of "pink mage", a RDM who can support, even if at an inferior level, can still be made into something useful in super elite content.I can admit that at the time the RDM revamp took place, the shangrilla of "hybrids can choose their role if we give them mechanics for each role" had not been discovered. The changes were made back when the ideology was pretty much "just give them some heals and something parties will want, so that they'll be forced to invite the class, so we can continue playing Magic The Gathering instead of spending time/resources fixing said class".

SE needs to radically redo game mechanics to fix the class diversity issue.I think the core of the problem is what jobs gain due to the subjob system. Even if you individually can fix each job, you still have that balancing nightmare looming over you.

What's really sad is that these sort of problems are easier to pinpoint if you play one of the "lesser" jobs. THF and SMN also suffer from several problems because of how basic class design was handled in this game. RDM just happens to be part of that club as well.

[Ladyofdragons]

I totally agree

[Kristal]

What's really sad is that these sort of problems are easier to pinpoint if you play one of the "lesser" jobs. THF and SMN also suffer from several problems because of how basic class design was handled in this game. RDM just happens to be part of that club as well.

RDM has the unfortunate position of being the only job that can be subbed while retaining almost 100% of it's capabilities AND have unique features given to other jobs (Phalanx, Addle) or being rendered impotent by game design (merits, enfeebling).
Other jobs have run into similar issues, but SE stepped up to ensure uniqueness for the job by limiting subjob or making a job excel at something.

Just happens to be part of the club? RDM is the club president!

[Ophannus]

RDM could have had potential as a job that reduces damage taken by the party. If SE had let WHM focus on healing instead of giving them things like AoE Bar spells and Protectra/Shellra and Sancrocity. RDM should have been specialized to reduce damage taken by the party with Protectra/Shellra/Phalanxga/Phalanxga II/Bar spellra/Regens/Stoneskins/Blinkga etc. BRD and COR could have focused on being offensive support and WHM could be healing support; RDM should have been defensive support, instead they gave both Healing and Defensive to WHM and left RDM with meh enfeebling. If theyre gonna give us enfeebing at least give us tier 3 and tier 4 of every enfeeble.

[Duelle]

RDM has the unfortunate position of being the only job that can be subbed while retaining almost 100% of it's capabilities AND have unique features given to other jobs (Phalanx, Addle) or being rendered impotent by game design (merits, enfeebling).

Other jobs have run into similar issues, but SE stepped up to ensure uniqueness for the job by limiting subjob or making a job excel at something.The reason I don't bark up the uniqueness tree is because RDM at the core is supposed to be a hybrid. Again, this goes to the whole bit about it being a job that borrows things and uses them in their own way. The best example I can think of is that a BLM would use Fire to outright burn something down to ashes. A RDM may end up using Fire to inflict just enough pain over a period of time to hinder their enemy in some way. It's the same spell, but used differently to meet each job's needs. BLM as the ranged nuker, RDM as the melee mage. That is where the differentiation should come in. Enfeebling, as I mentioned in my previous post, is a small facet that has been thrusted to the front in a desperate attempt to take a shortcut to fixing the job and giving it a purpose.

RDM could have had potential as a job that reduces damage taken by the party. If SE had let WHM focus on healing instead of giving them things like AoE Bar spells and Protectra/Shellra and Sancrocity.Sorry, but that harms WHM by taking away things that make sense for a healer/support (which is what WHM is) and harms RDM by burdening it with something that has absolutely nothing to do with Red Magery or magic fencing in the case of the melee camp. That does little for us other than take us back to where we were at lv75, which I certainly don't want.

Not to mention with hybrids you can no longer afford to shove a singular role down the player's throat and expect them to like it. Hybrids are and have always been about choices. Developers have just been lazier in the past because they knew some players would be desperate enough to take the bad end of the deal if it meant an easier time finding a group and "importance" in endgame. And that's not only here, but in several of the MMOs that came out around the time FFXI did. Going back to something I said long ago, RDM's woes are not unique to this game.

[Xtrasweettea]

Not to mention with hybrids you can no longer afford to shove a singular role down the player's throat and expect them to like it. Hybrids are and have always been about choices.

Thank you for bringing that up.

Which I have personally started playing RDM like a Hybrid job as of lately. I am very lucky to have a linkshell that allows me to make my own choices during events as long as it does not hinder the group (better yet, as long as it contributes positively). The majority of the time I am RDM during events is Voidwatch.

I am usually in charge of keeping the "ranged" party alive (BLMs, RNG, NIN, BLUs) while trying to proc weaknesses with magic. Counting on the enemy and the skill of the other players, I will melee on RDM (with a melee set). Though, my first priority is curing and magic procing. Melee is something I get to do because the linkshell I am in is open to the idea.

The group does benefit from me with my weapon drawn. Usually in the form of Sword and Dagger procs. I do not have a top-tier Melee set, but basic enough (full gear haste, enough accuracy and attack to make some difference, WS gear, etc) to make a minor impact.

I understand that most people are not open to the idea of a person who wants to play a RDM as a hybrid more than a PNK or someone's mule just to have RDM merit spell procs. I have ran into that problem my whole FFXI career. It is just finding the right people who will allow you to play RDM as a RDM.

And for the topic of an ultimate spell for RDM: I wouldn't mind an enfeeble (like something that weakens TP moves or punishes a mob for using a TP move). I just do not want it to be tied to any job abilities.

[Ophannus]

I just can't believe SE removed or reduced the effectiveness of the following abilities and spells when subbed(or not subbed in some cases):
Warcry
Hasso
Sneak Attack
Trick Attack
Hide
Soul Eater
Sublimation
Ranged Weapon Skills
High Jump
Bard Songs
Ancient/Warding/Holy/Arcane Circle
Phantom Rolls
Waltzes
Steps
Zanshin
Meditate
Utsusemi Ni
Call Beast
Cal Wyvern
Afflatus: Misery/Solace
Innin/Yonnin
Velocity Shot
And countless other abilities and spells


By subbing RDM nothing is reduced or removed. Refresh is still maximum potency and duration. Convert is still full strength. Enhancing spells are still as potent as they would be for the level and Fast Cast is untouched.

[Babekeke]

Maybe a spell a bit like Berserk from FF (9?) that boosts the attack speed and power of a mob, but prevents them from using abilities.
Or vice-versa, a spell that enables a mob to only use TP moves, but can't melee in between them. The latter would likely have to give them some regain I guess, or allow them to TP on the timer of a 999 delay weapon perhaps? Maybe less than that, that's ~16.5 seconds I think.

[Tassidaru]

Im not really sure if a single ultimate spell could really encapsulate rdm w/o utterly breaking the game...i think id rather see a set of spells that together would be our ultimate. of course, id also like to see SE increase the group 2 merit cap and rework rdm group 1 merits while they're at it...elemental accuracy...wow...

maybe a set of offensive and defensive auras (sphere effects but you get it too) 3-5 each, maybe...you could have 1 of each up at a time...like a regain (i can dream, cant i) to boost the pt (also nice in solo) and say... a plauge, or zombie, or just general stat down aura (maybe a new dot?) that affects the target... not only would they get rdm to the front line, it would buff the pt and/or debuff the target, and the mechanic is already there. so not a horrid amount of work for the devs either

[Duelle]

Refresh is still maximum potency and duration.Not a bad thing. I like that the new standard for non-RDM mage jobs is "bring your own damn refresh".

Convert is still full strength.Not a bad thing either. It means jobs subbing it have some semblance of MP longevity. Less on our plate, so we win on this one too.

I kinda know what you're getting at, but you're trying to make the variances in potency universal instead of looking at it case by case.

Fast Cast is untouched.I can sort of agree with you on this, though I agree with Saev that Fast Cast should be stronger on RDM. I feel that Fast Cast could be left as is and add a trait on RDM at lv55 or so to make if more potent when casting spells without affecting recast timers any further, as per Saev's suggestion.

of course, id also like to see SE increase the group 2 merit cap and rework rdm group 1 merits while they're at it...elemental accuracy...wow...I agree with this. Group 1 merits need to be reworked, and I'd take that a step further and turn the group 2 merit spells into scrolls and add in something else for group 2.

[Tassidaru]

I agree with this. Group 1 merits need to be reworked, and I'd take that a step further and turn the group 2 merit spells into scrolls and add in something else for group 2.

id agree with them being scrolls if and ONLY if the scroll versions were equal to the potency of they're 5/5 merit version.
make sure you stipulate that, cuz i have no love for the devs in terms of how they screw over jobs so easily...and my cynicism tells me that they would make the scrolls the power of 1/5 merits...and do it in a heart beat

[Babekeke]

id agree with them being scrolls if and ONLY if the scroll versions were equal to the potency of they're 5/5 merit version.
make sure you stipulate that, cuz i have no love for the devs in terms of how they screw over jobs so easily...and my cynicism tells me that they would make the scrolls the power of 1/5 merits...and do it in a heart beat

Just like pro/shell 5

[Demon6324236]

Fast Cast needs reworked for RDM because of the way AF3 sets work, look at BLM, you have -12% cast on your head piece if +2, use this with a lv99 trial staff of an element and you have -26%, use with the neck that lowers it by yet another 3% and you have -29% with Fast Cast of /RDM you cast much faster than RDM will, I know a BLM who casts at about 18-20% which is faster than my RDM can using similar gear. I may not be meant to be a nuker better than BLM but the fact they can use their much more potent spells much faster than me is wrong, RDM has Fast Cast because it is meant to have the advantage of speed to it as well to make up for the lack of potency I would think, and as such I should be casting at least as fast as a well geared BLM, not slower.

As for Convert & Refresh not being lowered in potency its right, they aren't, I'm happy in a way my RDM need not cast refresh on all the mages in the party/alliance yet it also rids of some of the unique points of RDM which most jobs have nerfed unique points on them as a sub, also convert helps MP and gives much larger supplies which I would not change except perhaps making it to where half of your hp goes into MP, which would give you MP back still in a large amount wouldn't be so massive. Though it may lessen the effect of the sub-job itself would make it more balanced.

As for a RDM super-spell I think Amnesia would work well, stop the mob from using TP attacks for a short time with a high rate of resist build as to not allow locking its TP attacks all together, also duration would not be long, perhaps 15 seconds or so, enough to be noticed but not to make the enemy defenseless. Obviously NMs would resist it more often but not to the extent it shouldn't be used, it should have a high rate of landing on anything with the first cast, after that NMs build resist faster than other mobs would. For instance I can use it on high level worms in Gustav Tunnel and land 2-3 times if I so choose before it would be to resisted to be worth trying, where as in VW I would cast 1 time, and from there on the chances of it landing would be spotty at best. Amnesia is one of the most potent enfeebles against players (I would say the most next to silence which we already get, and muddle which has no use how it is against anything other than players) yet we have never had access to it, the only way I know of even for a player to inflict it is through WAR using the Great-axe with it as an additional effect. So I think it is fitting for RDM to finally receive one of the most potent enfeeblings in the game, and be able to restrict not only the TP gain of an enemy (which some jobs have already, RDM should have something to itself as a ultimate spell, not something other jobs have) but to be able to prevent it over a short period of time!

[Duelle]

As for Convert & Refresh not being lowered in potency its right, they aren't, I'm happy in a way my RDM need not cast refresh on all the mages in the party/alliance yet it also rids of some of the unique points of RDM which most jobs have nerfed unique points on them as a sub, also convert helps MP and gives much larger supplies which I would not change except perhaps making it to where half of your hp goes into MP, which would give you MP back still in a large amount wouldn't be so massive. Though it may lessen the effect of the sub-job itself would make it more balanced.Again, MP longevity is not a bad thing. Refresh should never, ever be a "unique" aspect/point/trait of RDM. Convert is fine as is. It keeps complications and things that shouldn't have anything to do with us far away, and that's fine by me.

Obviously NMs would resist it more often but not to the extent it shouldn't be used, it should have a high rate of landing on anything with the first cast, after that NMs build resist faster than other mobs would. For instance I can use it on high level worms in Gustav Tunnel and land 2-3 times if I so choose before it would be to resisted to be worth trying, where as in VW I would cast 1 time, and from there on the chances of it landing would be spotty at best. Amnesia is one of the most potent enfeebles against players (I would say the most next to silence which we already get, and muddle which has no use how it is against anything other than players) yet we have never had access to it, the only way I know of even for a player to inflict it is through WAR using the Great-axe with it as an additional effect. So I think it is fitting for RDM to finally receive one of the most potent enfeeblings in the game, and be able to restrict not only the TP gain of an enemy (which some jobs have already, RDM should have something to itself as a ultimate spell, not something other jobs have) but to be able to prevent it over a short period of time!Absolutes never work well for enfeebles. That's largely the reason why enfeebling is so useless in the more recent events. You can't make something not cast or use TP moves and expect it to be balanced. Now, if you gave me something that reduced damage from TP moves by 15-25%, then we might be on to something. Weakeningn a mob to the point their TP moves are weaker would be a good direction, is not an absolute and allows us to help the group without becoming a buff-whore.

That being said, I'd still prefer Red Trance over any other option.

[Demon6324236]

As it has been said, we have few things unique to RDM, I agree jobs should be able to stand on their own two legs for MP lasting but it is brought up because its one of few things we have others don't. We have the same enfeebles that BLM & WHM have if both in the same party which they obviously should be, other than our merit spells which don't always make it enough to throw a RDM in your party just because you want the slightly better para/slow/blind II. Perhaps our traits should make a larger impact over the 50-99 levels so that we have a noticeable difference from those subbing RDM, as I stated I do not think a BLM should cast faster than my RDM, unless I'm completely ignoring fast cast & -cast time, gear. As for now, the only thing that makes our buffs truly greater than that of someone using RDM as a sub is we have Composure.

And amnesia only comes to mind because its something we have seen in the game for a very long time that has limited us while we have only ever had one way to use it, through a WAR not RDM, and only with an additional effect, which I feel is wrong. If they gave us it I admit it would be nearly impossible to balance especially in abyssea for the fact everything dies so fast the duration would need to be five seconds to make the mob have a chance after it wore off.

In either case I do agree a spell weakening TP attacks for the mob would be nice while not stopping them it would give us more breathing room still. My only problem with that is would it effect perhaps TP accuracy as well? Or being able to resist additional effects? Because sometimes the effects of the attack are what kills you more than the damage itself, such as Yama's Judgment from Kalasutrax(Jeuno T6 VWNM) dooming alot of your DDs, or Pinecone Bomb from Modron(Zilart T2 VWNM) sleeping the entire party for the most part. Again might be unbalancing to think of it doing something like that because it would make some TPs by the mobs basically useless, but it is simply an idea because sometimes you don't care all to much about the damage you receive from the TP, thats the least of your worries next to doom, amnesia, weakness, muddle, death, and so on. But I think in the end RDM needs a way to effect TP more than anything because we have everything else for the most part. We can stop attacks, lower accuracy, slow them down, lower evasion, stop use of or lessen the effect of spells, but still nothing we can do about TPs. About our greatest hope in the case the enemy uses a TP attack, is that we have stun. We already stop mobs being able to hit us with normal attacks, and eliminate magic as a problem, all we need now is TP/additional effects and we will be set to enfeeble mobs so much so that (provided we land the spell) the enemy will have little to no ability to win in most cases.

[Duelle]

As it has been said, we have few things unique to RDM, I agree jobs should be able to stand on their own two legs for MP lasting but it is brought up because its one of few things we have others don't.Which was a flaw in design and caused grief on both ends, the Red Mage for wanting his job to be meaningful and instead being shackled to Refresh-bot, and the other casters who for some reason trhe devs believed should not be self-sufficient with MP. If anything, I wish these "fixes" by making Refresh subbable had been made available sooner to the other mage jobs.

As for now, the only thing that makes our buffs truly greater than that of someone using RDM as a sub is we have Composure.Which is fine because it supports that theme of melee mage that I keep harping on about. Remember that we're still borrowing things from the other jobs.

And amnesia only comes to mind because its something we have seen in the game for a very long time that has limited us while we have only ever had one way to use it, through a WAR not RDM, and only with an additional effect, which I feel is wrong. If they gave us it I admit it would be nearly impossible to balance especially in abyssea for the fact everything dies so fast the duration would need to be five seconds to make the mob have a chance after it wore off.You also forget the fact that a good number of mobs, in abyssea and post-abyssea are overly reliant on TP moves. This means Amnesia would NEVER work on them because you're effectively shutting the mob down entirely.

In all honesty, Amnesia should have never been implemented the way it has been. I know the devs were looking for a way to piss off melee, to inconvenience the eventual Dancer job,and to make imps threatening foes, but other things could have been done instead of something that entirely prevents TP moves and Job Abilities.

In either case I do agree a spell weakening TP attacks for the mob would be nice while not stopping them it would give us more breathing room still. My only problem with that is would it effect perhaps TP accuracy as well? Or being able to resist additional effects? Because sometimes the effects of the attack are what kills you more than the damage itself, such as Yama's Judgment from Kalasutrax(Jeuno T6 VWNM) dooming alot of your DDs, or Pinecone Bomb from Modron(Zilart T2 VWNM) sleeping the entire party for the most part.Could be balanced as a case by case enfeeble, or just put in a blanket rule and have it reduce damage from TP moves, reduce duration of additional effects, and so on so that the spell's purpose is to lower the effectiveness of mob TP moves by a percentage. It'd fall under spells you use to help the group mitigate damage. If you want to tack the enfeebler thing to RDM, that'd be one nice way to help drive that point home.

[Demon6324236]

Yep, and as for enemys in abyssea and post-abyssea who are overly reliant on TP moves, some (such as Ironclads) only USE TP moves, which would completly lock the enemy, then again thats what blue procing did was cause Amnesia. But now that you mention it I do agree it would be way to effective against certain enemys seeing as it would lock their ability to even act at all.

[Kristal]

Yep, and as for enemys in abyssea and post-abyssea who are overly reliant on TP moves, some (such as Ironclads) only USE TP moves, which would completly lock the enemy, then again thats what blue procing did was cause Amnesia. But now that you mention it I do agree it would be way to effective against certain enemys seeing as it would lock their ability to even act at all.

Ironclad regular attacks are 0TP moves, which are not affected by Amnesia. So it WOULD block those awesome rocket attacks, but not the 'regular' sweep attacks.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Except Blue Stagger prevents TP moves, and an Ironclad will cease moving during Blue stagger.

[Kristal]

Except Blue Stagger prevents TP moves, and an Ironclad will cease moving during Blue stagger.

That probably has more to do with the Ironclad's response to stagger then Amnesia in general. Automatons used to have similar problems with Amnesia preventing ranged attacks, until SE fixed it. So a few monster types would require the same fix if RDM gets Amnesia, although it probably would end up as a blanket immunity for 99.99% of the mobs anyway.

Some kind of enemy TP gain reduction would sound more promising though, might even bring back skillchaining if it's actually good enough.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Shinryu has the exact same issue. It isn't limited to Ironclads. Monsters with TP move attacks cannot attack if amnesia'd.

[Ophannus]

Would love a debuff that lowers magic defense or magic evasion. ._.

[Demon6324236]

I would still go with limiting the damage from a TP attack rather than lowering TP gain of the mob or something of that extent, simply for the reason we have that kind of spell on NIN already, and if it would be an ultimate spell for RDM it should be of RDMs own, not a copy & paste effect, kinda like I see Migawari for NIN, Meteor for BLM, Arise for WHM, Embrava/Kaustra for SCH, no other job gets these effects like they do, and none should, if RDM gets a spell with similar or the same effects as another jobs, what do we really have to show even?

When you need a zerg you call in the SCH for Embrava, not because they can use regen & haste(given they are /RDM or WHM) but for Embrava, that spell with its massive 5TP 25-30ish%Haste & about 60Regen when used by someone with capped skill, thats why you call them in, just like SMN with Alex, RDM as it stands is losing its use, if you look at endgame(VW/Abyssea) we cant proc as well as other jobs, we cant proc with only our specific spells because most wont land, and we have no job ability that only we can use to proc the mob.

We are left with no real reason to invite, one reason, we arnt a "DD" thus we cant fight, we cant heal like a WHM or a SCH can, and we cant nuke like a BLM or SCH can, we have shorter spell lists in both fields, we even go so far as to have Divine & Dark magic skill of which we can not use other than Dark on Bio & Divine WAS for Dia at a time. When we have things we cant use in most cases, and we have nothing to us that is truly unique we lose any reason to be used for anything relevant. We need a spell that really gives RDM a reason to exist in the game now, because as it is now, we have no place, we can solo, we can duo/trio, and we can do things outside of anything endgame, but when it comes to endgame we are left out, which is wrong. Jack-of-all-trades or not.

We should have a reason to play RDM still, a well thought out, working spell, that is unique to RDM yet not overpowered seems nearly impossible to me. We can effect everything on the mobs already(if it sticks that is) and yet, what good does it do us when other jobs get that power. We cant use Enhancing or DoT as our super powerful thing that people bring us for, Embrava & Kaustra fill those wonderfully.

RDM has been left behind I think, and honestly I'm out of ideas on what we can add to bring us back, we are now for soloing, and doing some things in partys we can do them in, for the most part our job/role is dying/dead, and especially with the new VW, which has no need for merit spells/JAs for procs? We just lost the one thing RDM had, its special enfeebling, without that I'm sure RDM will be turned away at every request to join a party outside of friends & ls mates who know them to take them with, otherwise us RDMs are doomed I'm afraid.

[cidbahamut]

Holy wall of text Batman.

[Demon6324236]

lol I was tired, when Im tired, I type alot @_@;

[Duelle]

When you need a zerg you call in the SCH for Embrava, not because they can use regen & haste(given they are /RDM or WHM) but for Embrava, that spell with its massive 5TP 25-30ish%Haste & about 60Regen when used by someone with capped skill, thats why you call them in, just like SMN with AlexWhat you don't seem to realize is that this is VERY bad design. It's like the stupidity with Refresh and Bards, Corsairs and RDMs but on a bigger scale.

We are left with no real reason to invite, one reason, we arnt a "DD" thus we cant fight, we cant heal like a WHM or a SCH can, and we cant nuke like a BLM or SCH can, we have shorter spell lists in both fields, we even go so far as to have Divine & Dark magic skill of which we can not use other than Dark on Bio & Divine WAS for Dia at a time. When we have things we cant use in most cases, and we have nothing to us that is truly unique we lose any reason to be used for anything relevant. We need a spell that really gives RDM a reason to exist in the game now, because as it is now, we have no place, we can solo, we can duo/trio, and we can do things outside of anything endgame, but when it comes to endgame we are left out, which is wrong. Jack-of-all-trades or not.What you're pointing to is not the need of a spell, but more to the fact that at the core RDM is borked. Which only reinforces my desire to see that and the myriad of problems the job has fixed, NOT to have a spell to hide the problems under.

[Demon6324236]

What you don't seem to realize is that this is VERY bad design. It's like the stupidity with Refresh and Bards, Corsairs and RDMs but on a bigger scale.
What you're pointing to is not the need of a spell, but more to the fact that at the core RDM is borked. Which only reinforces my desire to see that and the myriad of problems the job has fixed, NOT to have a spell to hide the problems under.

I know 1 spell isn't going to fix RDM, I'm saying it would be nice to see something in the direction of making RDM more useful & help fix it, I don't expect SE to come to us with an update saying they are going to fix 90% of the problems we have with RDM. I'm simply saying that a single spell is possible as a first step to getting us back up & on our feet rather than where we are now. And I'm not saying that I want a spell that simply hides our flawed job I'm saying I want to have a spell that should show us that were not forgotten, were not just being left behind, and that SE actually gives a damn about RDM still.

So far, other than melee gear we can actually use on RDM (ya know, if people let us) we don't seem to get anything recently. Gravity II was about my biggest disappointment in RDM, because at our final moment when we should be our best... we got nothing, which I felt the same honestly after beating the Taru for the final limit break. I won, and my reward was 4 levels, normally I would get a few new cool spells, something to stand out, being the final limit break, I would expect something grand and powerful, and~ I got to lower a mobs evasion. Grand was supposed to be like Impact, something that seems very much like what a RDMs final spell should have been, it does damage, it lowers stats, it hurts the mob both inside & out, thats on a piece of gear every mage has basically, while my RDM gets its awesome exclusive, Gravity II.

[Kristal]

which I felt the same honestly after beating the Taru for the final limit break. I won, and my reward was 5 levels

Due to budget cuts, only 4 of those levels were actually awarded... the crisis even hits us beyond the shattering stars...

[Demon6324236]

OK point taken I messed up on that, still point being that I got levels and nothing for it which annoyed me, I said nothing hoping we would get something epic soon, yet we have yet to get anything of the sort, which is what this thread was meant to talk about : / I still hope at some point SE will give us something for RDM, they took some time to get us meteor, maybe RDMs is farther down the list, who knows. Either way this was meant to talk of that epic spell that would be great for RDM, like meteor, instead we have become sidetracked saying that a spell will not fix RDM and things like this that are obvious.

[demhar]

Our best spell was Bind.. back in the days... nothing really matters now...

[Llana_Virren]

We should get an Amnesia-based spell as an Enfeebling version of Stun.... that'd be a nice touch, even if it lasts only 5-10 seconds, it could be an amazing tool.

[ManaKing]

OR just Stun...

or Embrava. I don't really see why SCH should get both Embrava and Klaustra. But then again they aren't RDM, so I guess it makes sense.

[Llana_Virren]

I'd rather have a light-element stun equivalent. This way, you can still use Stun and "Wait" (or insert another name here).