An end to luck based content?

[Natenn]

Is legion gonna be more of riding temp items/staggers/Atma/2hrs to win? All the latest endgame content (ADL/Rex/Alima) depend on either staggers/Temp items/2hr abilitys to not get our butts handed to us, are we gonna get back skill based content at all? Since abyssea everything added just about requires luck, ADL AoEs are all huge range, and you cant run to far away from VWNMs or you get locked out of the fight. I hope the devs are gonna add fights that don't need to end within 1-2 minutes or you have to keep the NM stagger locked due to massive AoE dmg/TP spam/annoying debilitation auras like Rex bio/HP-% aura.

[MarkovChain]

ADl is skill or number. Voidwatch is number.

[Natenn]

ADL is not skill, stop being dumb.

[MarkovChain]

Yes that's why there is so much QQ over it. It's FFXI skill though, it's like salvage or limbus of back in the day : farm faster to get more drops. It's not dependent on luck really but more on the speed at which you can farm the pops and kill the pops. An alliance worth a damn should be bringing 6 SMN for every boss run and cor on mules to reset them so as topop at least 12 per run. 18 man -allaince should be able to farm close to 18 pops on a single dynamis run.

[Alkimi]

18 man -allaince should be able to farm close to 18 pops on a single dynamis run.

Usually takes us about an hour to farm 3 sets of items and kill all the pop NMs from scratch, that's with 9 people hunting lottery NMs for Bijous and 9 people doing pop NMs for tomes. No way anyone's farming anything close to 18 pops.

On topic hopefully this new legion will be more about skill and tactics, looks like being from the test server anyway. Saying that from one zone I saw there were 3 NMs, 1 could cast Death, 1 could charmga, and the 3rd could do both. Can we lay off the death please lol?

[Arcon]

Can we lay off the death please lol?

Since I've first been hit in the face with that by a Goblin Golem I've always hated it. Death is completely retarded spell. No spell should ever be able to kill you without any possibility of preventing it (take Odin's Zantetsuken, for example, that was done well imo).

[Natenn]

more charm & death moves? good god they give everything 1 shots or AoE that will probably wipe you.

[Fupafighter]

Part that pisses me off about death, is that it goes through shadows? Kinda dumb lol. Can't make a NM immune to stun, and give it death haha. And I heard rumors of there being a charma soon? And like a amnesiana lol. Sounds really good to me :D
And nothing in this game will require the skill that we used to need to kill stuff lol. Evasion means nothing on High tier content, paladins can't hold hate due to capping enmity quick, even with people spamming trick attack on him, and the monsters just do WAY to much damage given our hp. Even though we have PDT/MDT sets, i still get 1 shot by stupid aoe from stuff with 45% on each lol. Skill is no longer becoming a factor no matter how it plays out sadly.

[Natenn]

true, they needed to overhaul the enmity system for a long time now.

[macross]

Anything that you can simply PD and zerg doesn't need skill, just luck.

[saevel]

They need to lay off the retarded moves. They made MORE Charmga / Deathga with legion?

[Alkimi]

Seems like it's just one of the four zones. It has a vampire, dvergr and corse NM in it. They can all cast death and 2/3 of them use charm.

They don't appear to cast death until lower HP so Aegis PLD should be able to hold one each fine until the alliance is ready to kill them.

[Lemoncloak]

Anything that you can simply PD and zerg doesn't need skill, just luck.


You have a point albeit parallel. The standard way to kill things is whatever is easiest. Don't you think the idea and implementation of VW and Abyssea has been the following:

"How you fight the mob determines your drops."

So far the implementation has been done as "what attacks you use" = how you fight the mob.

There are other, alternative ways to accomplish the same goal.

Examples: -What abilities the mob is able to use (different modes = different abilities)
-In what area the mob is fought (Sandworm pops to mind in that zone determines the mob type)
-What terrain is utilized to assist in fighting the mob (it sounds lame but...maybe...ebon panels anyone?)

It's silly to say everything is too easy. If you really want a challenge, gimp yourself. If your gripe is about HOW difficulty is implemented (Death/Charmga) then it seems valid. Something requiring MOAR SKILL, though easily said, requires answering what FFXI SKILL is.

[Natenn]

We can't prevent death/charm though, those things cause instant wipes and the NMs resist stun.

[Alhanelem]

There are items which give death resistance (of course, it only works if you're lucky, but still)

[saevel]

We can't prevent death/charm though, those things cause instant wipes and the NMs resist stun.

That's done on purpose. SE knows by now that we'll just throw a bunch of zerged out Embrava'd melees at whatever content they release. No matter they do, this strategy will always work because they fail to implement terrain / dependent battles. So to extend content life longer they adjust drop rates down and create moves that randomly wipe you. It's their way of extending content's life.

It's known as fake difficulty. They could create a treasure chest outside your mog house. You open the chest and it randomly determines a result.
1~50 -> You fall down dead
51~80 -> You live, get a log
81~99 -> You live, get a log and an ingot
100 -> You live and get a random piece of gear.

And it would have the same effect as their recent attempt at content.

[Natenn]

i miss when only the top few LS could kill stuff, when titles had meaning.

[MarkovChain]

With pld or rdm tanking, so much (lack of ) skill from your DDs.

[Alkimi]

DDs had nowhere near the capability that they do today and WHM would start to struggle for MP if people started taking a lot of damage. On a lot of HNMs the main source of damage was usually BLMs.

[MarkovChain]

Lol no, it's just that your DD sucked. Once proprely buffed they take no damage and make BLM look ridiculous. The problem is that the DD that you have in an hnmLS are necessarily war & drk, with too high a ego to sub ninjar. MNK could basically tank anything except flying wyrms, the problem is that hnmls were full of PLD war drk etc... cos mnks moved quickly to salvage & limbus/einherjar.

[Natenn]

I think its just a quetz thing, i always seen DD/NIN.

[Alhanelem]

Legion is not based significantly around temp items and doesn't have super duper buffs.