[dev1088] Beastmaster two-hour abilities

[Vandheer]

Having read the idea of new two-hour abilities through merits I grew quickly fond of the idea and believe its about time we start to discuss and start some ideas to throw at the dev team regarding some Beastmaster two-hour abilities.

Currently Beastmaster has Familiar which boosts our pets max hp 10% and makes our charmed pets stay charmed the duration of the ability. This ability lasts 30 minutes making it great for beefing up our pets hp for tanking situations.

What do you think would make for a good merited two-hour ability for Beastmaster that will be useful while standing out from Familiar? Additionally how will meriting the ability further boost it? Keep in mind SE may go about these abilities similar to the merited weapon skill abilities were we can only access so many of them at there maximum potential so with that in mind lets try to get ideas out there that would be worth meriting when put up against other potential merited two hours other jobs may obtain.

Lets get some ideas out there! :D

[Xilk]

Familiar only boosts HP +10% and charm duration to 30 minutes.

Augmented Monster Trousers +2 extend the charm duration to 40 minutes and add 10% pet haste.

There are no other stat boosts from familiar.



I had always wanted familiar to unlock additional pet abilities. I want the ones they didn't give us or took away.
However, that's not really a different 2-hour ability.

As far as something different...

Several things have been mentioned. Having a second pet would be cool. I"ve always been jealous of the NPC beastmasters who have many.

ability to charm a beastman or player could be fun also.

I"m not feeling especially creative atm though. I keep thinking of things like smn's 2-hour or drg's 2-hour.

[Vandheer]

Thank you Xilk for catching my error. I made the changes to my initial posting.

As for 2-hour abilities, I agree that unlocking additional pet abilities would be awesome. Sounds similar to Unbridled Learning only for our pets though more would need to be added to make it 2-hour worthy (in my opinion).

Having two pets would be not only nifty and flavorful but very useful as-well.

Charming a beastman or a player would be fun but with charm stripped from new content if this was made a two hour its uses would be very limited. :/

As much as I'd like to end bringing something new to the table I have been having a shortage on ideas as-well. :x

[Lastranger]

to be honest i think the lost ability's shouldnt be a 2 hour, but rather added as 3 point moves or a remake of the points system to go higher for posible moves. the whole idea of the point system is that it balance the powerfull ability's.
i just think this idea that leaving out some of the powerfull ability's on the notion it would unbalance bst is nonsense, if the better moves costed 3-5 poibnts and the system was moved to include more points at start but with same slow regen of points u could balance out spamming of said powerfull moves.

the developers argument that to many good moves on 1 pet makes them unbalanced wouldnt be true if they used the system they themselves implemented with points for choice of tp moves, i think the point system was genius and should be expanded not neglected and just say stuff would be unbalanced.

As for Thread topic a new bst 2 hour there are a lot of interesting posibility's

a Stat's increase ability transfering all of the beastmaster Job traits +25% pure stats like str etc and attack /def for 3 min making for a pet mini boost, kinda like a drg 2hour in reverse but taking gear stats into acount.
Pro's of this would be the addvent of transfeering haste DA/TA etc for 3 min for a super pet, just to make it interesting they could make some bigger moddels when 2 hour is used to make it seem as the pet grows for the 3 min.

Another path could be using new 2 hour to call a special pet thats stronger then avrage jug pets, my wish would be a chocobo since it dosnt exist as pet right now only as mount and it is involved in bst origin story.

Another 2 hour posibility could be unlocking the pet's natural main job 2 hour when using the new bst 2 hour, like say ur pet is thf main, it gets the original thf 2 hour activated on it, although im sure this would be a bit harder to implement it would certainly add utility to pet's as pld pet could invincible, war pet could use the critt 2 hour etc.

im also open to the posibility of more pets through new 2 hour, like u use the 2 hour and u get 2-3 mini versions in addition to regular pet , but it might be hard to make happen as reward etc might have to be recoded, also added pets couldnt have as much hp etc as main, or it would have to be short duration.

of course bst ould steal the smn 2 hour just for regulare monsters, have each family have a special instant attack do massive dmg, so fish/crab might get some water based attack / bird gets wind bassed instant attack / amorphe gets dark based etc,
making the family pet u have add a special tp move to pet list and give pet 300 tp as 2 hour is used make it be active like 30-300 sec depending on how powerfull these become, mayby make 2 hour effect wear after 3 uses but not use up tp moves points( the monster ability points not the tp itself).

Or the new 2 hour could just be a stats boost to pet for long term duration, like add haste/DA/TA/QA or a level up of curent Job traits under 2 hour effect, so if u have DA on pet it get TA instead of same value %, TH 1 becomes 2 under 2 hour effect
killer effect go 1 tier up evasion tiers up by 1, or to make it more potent it could jump 2 tiers on job traits for duration.

another posibility is pet mimic, that is to say the pet mimics all attacks bst use for 3-5 min duration like if u use haste samba so does the pet, u use healing waltz so does pet u cast nin shadows so does pet, adding a temp boosted pet with fargreater controll over survivebility, could work kinda like colibri mimic does on magic only on all bst moves transfeered to pet as if u train pet to do tricks.

as for 2 hour that would affect beastmaster himself only:

one that gives beastmaster killer effects terror maxed out stats for 5-10 min activating far more then normaly to para stagger prey.

a 2 hour that gives the master the pet's JT's on top of his own + 25% str/dex etc for shorter duration.

a 2 hour giving the master ability to use beast type ws for the duration of the 2 hour effect, depending on type family pet u have up.( the master can use pet tp moves himself at 100% tp ), as it's a 2 hour blu's shouldnt be to pissed about it.

a 2 hour effect that grants some % of PTD/MDT or just DT and with higher evasion the normal for short period, meant for those times pet dies when timer to call isnt up.

a 2hour area effect that boost master and pet stats as well as other pt members and their pets for short duration, adding haste/DA/TA etc for zerg, lower values then previose mentioned 2hour for pet/master only.

a 2 hour that gives TP regain to master and pet and lowers pet Ws recast timer to 50% of normal, amount regained tp should be 5-10 a tick for duration, duration could be 1-3 min im leaning towards 3 min cause it does take time to build tp even at 10 tp a tick.

a one shot 2 hour like EagleEyeShoot for master's wepon doing massive instant dmg 1 time evry 2 hours, could add some kind of bleed or weakend effect on target for short duration.

a 2 hour that adds crit dmg to master's dmg based on CHR at time of use, or really any stat getting a boost from the CHR we have, or a effect on each attack that debuff enemy depending on CHR like a Enpara/Enfencer ( lower DA/TA/QA % on mob)/Enslow/Envirus it should last aat least 3-5 min for some effect.

a 2 hour that allows master to gain insight into enemy weaknes through the wide scan ability ( add a new button under 2 hour effect) and adds a bonus to using pet of best choice/corelation to weaknes revealed. long time duration 10-15 min at least, pet does more dmg and gains less dmg under effect.

a 2 hour that boost masters HP to 200% and adds a hefty amount of enemity to master as well as a bit of PDT/MDT/defence for purpose of tanking instead of letting pet tank, should last 2-3 min, and have a Nice strong auto-regen on master ( like 15-35hP /tick) should lower attacck a bit as penalty under effect, but mayby add more shield skill for use of shield mayby some shield mastery under effect for maxing blocking. i guess not all of it can be taken onto 1 2hour but some of it would be nice.


anyways i think there is a ton off posebility's for new 2 hours, im a bit surprised not many discuss it.

[Vandheer]

Wow, o.o thats quite the handful of ideas you have. I'm shocked not more people are getting their ideas out about this as-well but I'm happy to see you putting out so many ideas.

[Raborn]

I like the idea of unlocking Jug pets full TP capabilities, this would be alot of recoding on the devs parts but it would make bsts 2 hour a little more interesting and give it more use in multiple situations over just use it at the start and hope the boost does well.

I'd also like to add in changing it up by allowing BSTs using 2 hour with a charmed pet to be able to use snarl and ready (rather than sic). Along with the standard 30 min hold time and 10% HP boost.

Perhaps something along the lines of a +20 to all stats for the pet including attack/acc/Matt/Macc , with an additional 5 hp/ tick regen (not including regen from reward) while in effect.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

New two-hour is a joke:

Kills/Absorbs your pet in order to remove abnormal states and HP, while also granting re-raise.

[Xilk]

I think they should change the new bst 2-hour idea.. but if they don't, they should call it 'Cannibalize' !!

Its the red-headed step-child of Spirit Surge and Run Wild (which should have been no regen, but big pet dd boost).
If Cannibalizing our pets to stay alive is the 2 hour, it will happen as often as cannibalizing a pet or neighbor does now... and w/the same enthusiasm!!

I will never use that ability. I would have be be careless enough to go into a serious fight w/out reraise in the first place. I would rather use familiar first on such a serious fight.

If you are going to give BST Spirit Surge, then keep the same idea as DRG. If I were willing to sacrifice my pet, it would be to get buffed for a zerg fight.

I would still prefer it to unlock a super ready move on pet. if we could skill chain,then pet version of meikyou shisui would be sweet. Otherwise, just a really big move, like a smn bloodpact level for pet.

If they did the new pup 2-hour for bst it would be sweet also. Mighty strikes, 100 fists, invincible, perfect dodge, etc depending on pet job would be cool too.

[Delvish]

Aother way to look at it is you can use this new ability 4 min after run wild. That way you aren't completely wasting a pet. But that is about all the use I can see out of it.

[Limecat]

I really hope the effect icon for this is the same as the food one. Not that I'll ever use it, but at least then it would kind of funny if nothing else. The idea I'd seen I like the most was to have it call a NM-class large mob for a few minutes. If they wanted to keep the more defensive slant, maybe have it give around 3-? finishing move-like charges that get expended as you use Call Beast or Reward, instantly ending their cooldown? If these things are going to be merited, maybe start it at two charges and add one more per merit for a max total of six.

[Phogg]

I do not have any remote hope that they would give us anything fun, so just based off of their current plans I think adding a reset of pet JA timers would make it at least useful. It's a two hour ability, so it would not be overpowered, but would allow for one string of doubled-up Run Wild in a pinch, or when an NM is low HP and tends to go batty, etc.

As it stands, I can't imagine ever using it. If I think I might need RR, I would already have it on before I even called my pet to begin with. Since is sounds a lot like this will be similar to WS merits, its likely to be restricted to high level also, so twilight RR3 trumps it already anyway. If I'm worried about my HP, the last thing I would do is get rid of my pet. Status ailments can be dealt with using subjobs situationally. So, I just don't see any utility as it stands.

[Dethard]

It may have some use if it reset the call beast at the same time. At least then you could pop the cheapest pet possible and use your 2-hour as a cheap RR before a battle.

But overall I cant see this being used much.

[Mavrick]

Beastmaster: Sacrifice your pet to recover HP and remove status ailments.
Grants the effect of Reraise.

I just used this 2 HR on the test server...
It does exactly what it says and not much more.
- Can be used regardless of distance between master and pet
- Kills pet and absorbs HP.
- Gain the effect of Reraise III
(ie you still loose exp if you die with this RR effect, and you will have weakness for 5 mins)
-The RR effect wears off after if it is used.
-Call Beast timer does not get reset.
- This is most likely a glitch but the pet command "Ready" gets reset to 2:00:00. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if it was working as intended.
- This ability does not work with charmed pets. (Can't have charm becoming useful for anything now)

Worst job ability ever.

[Xilk]

I just used this 2 HR on the test server...
It does exactly what it says and not much more.
- Can be used regardless of distance between master and pet
- Kills pet and absorbs HP.
- Gain the effect of Reraise III
(ie you still loose exp if you die with this RR effect, and you will have weakness for 5 mins)
-The RR effect wears off after if it is used.
-Call Beast timer does not get reset.
- This is most likely a glitch but the pet command "Ready" gets reset to 2:00:00. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if it was working as intended.
- This ability does not work with charmed pets. (Can't have charm becoming useful for anything now)

Worst job ability ever.

Thanx for testing. I won't be able to for hours.
I didn't expect call beast timer to be reset from it.
I did expect this would work w/ charmed pets. Another disappointment.
Please remember to report the bug to the test server bugs thread also.
ready command reset to 2-hour would be ridiculous if it were NOT a bug.

I would only ever use this if I were in a really crappy situation, me and pet are both about to die, hate is on me instead of pet (snarl, helllo!), I can't equip my twilight set (macro'd!), I haven't used familiar, I'm solo... and I'm worried about losing claim on what I'm fighting.
If I were in that bad of a situation I would just reraise and try again. I will want my 2-hour for something more worthwhile on bst or a different job.

[Vandheer]

Thanks for testing the 2-hour Mavrick. Like Xilk said id rarely use it if i ever was to use it. Right from the top with killing off your pet id expect much more in exchange for my pet.

Its ironic that I started this thread to and got some decent ideas out from us Beastmasters and we get total trash back.

Though the carpet was pulled out from beneath our feet with the Pet TH whats done is done and heres to hoping they redo this 2-hour.

[deces]

I am sure its been said, and I know every one here has thought that this pitiful so-called "2 hour" and wild run were drafted as one single JA. When used, the jug gets the hp regen and w/e haste for 5min. then poofs... and this "game changing" 2H ja would grant the said buffs to the Jugmaster. but I'm sure some lazy fuck or asshole said "No,No,No, we can milk this and save a years worth of development costs". I hope this is the case, if not your par is pathetic.

[Xilk]

I am sure its been said, and I know every one here has thought that this pitiful so-called "2 hour" and wild run were drafted as one single JA. When used, the jug gets the hp regen and w/e haste for 5min. then poofs... and this "game changing" 2H ja would grant the said buffs to the Jugmaster. but I'm sure some lazy fuck or asshole said "No,No,No, we can milk this and save a years worth of development costs". I hope this is the case, if not your par is pathetic.

There is no haste from Run wild. there might be attack, cuz thats a pain to actually confirm on a pet, but the only thing confirmed from run wild, is regen.

[Alyx]

Supercharm (needs a better name >.>): Charmed pets get leveled up to the masters level, charmed pets gain ready abilities, previously non-charmable mobs become charmable, 30min duration.

Yes I'm looking at you Abyssea mobs... Also not thinking Beastmen or NM's but things like Morbols, Goobbues, Cockatrice, Bombs, Rafflesia, etc you know things we should have been able to charm from the start.

[Hashmalum]

Supercharm (needs a better name >.>): Charmed pets get leveled up to the masters level, charmed pets gain ready abilities, previously non-charmable mobs become charmable, 30min duration.

Yes I'm looking at you Abyssea mobs... Also not thinking Beastmen or NM's but things like Morbols, Goobbues, Cockatrice, Bombs, Rafflesia, etc you know things we should have been able to charm from the start.Very early in the game's existence (pre NA release) it was possible to charm large monsters such as goobbue and malboros as well as NMs. I'm guessing the latter was an oversight and taking away NM charming was a legitimate fix but I don't know what the point of taking away large monsters was. As for charming bombs, those are arcana, which are generally uncharmable even by monsters... but there is an NPC taru puppetmaster named Eumoa-Tajimoa in Al Zahbi that says that automatons can be charmed by lamia and that he finds this idea "scary-wary". (How this works when automatons have a device to control them, I don't know.) Charming beastmen, though, seems totally legit to me; after all, their NMs (in Dynamis) can charm us, so turnabout is fair play even if it takes a 2 hour ability.

Other NPC/monster-only charms we should be able to get somehow include chigoe (there's a campaign NPC who does this, a filthy mithra who has fleas) and behemoths (charmed by the gigas during the war).

[Mercer]

Would be cool if they made the Bst 2-hour that Kills your "Charmed" Pet to restore your health and also give like a 50% defence enhance and 50% Attack Enhance. Idk I think it sounds cool but it might not to alot of you haha.

[Mavrick]

According to this image:
http://dl.square-enix.co.jp/ffxi/US/2012roadmap.jpg
from this post: Roadmap 2012 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22873-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-2012-Roadmap)

We are due for some new jugs and a Familiar adjustment sometime this month. I have not seen the Devs post anything regarding this so I'm guessing they probably shelved it or the updates might be hardly noticeable. Personally, I would love to have a pixie jug adjusted for group play but if we do get new jugs it would probably be a chigoe and another dragonfly.. can never have too many flies :/

[Babekeke]

Did any of the september adjustments get implemented? I haven't seen anything about monk's boost, Whitegate warp NPC or gardening/harvesting adjustments yet.

[Vandheer]

Unfortunately Mavrick the team at SE being can't follow that roadmap anymore due to our "Jihad" against the secondary 2-hours. As result of our "Jihad" SE is doing an overhaul in redoing them while trying to keep us entertained with what content they can put out. About a month or two ago Akihiko Matsui confirmed this and the fact he had some changes of his own along with stating they are working on a new roadmap.



We are currently working on preparing a revised roadmap to be released. We expect this to take a little bit of time, but please hang in there.

What would be a more viable question is... "Where is the new roadmap SE?". It has been at least a month or two since you it was mentioned that you were creating one. If theres one thing Akihiko Matsui should know about the forum community its that we don't like being left in the dark. Fill us in on the status of the roadmap please Devs. ^^

[Delvish]

I guess you could say they are going "off-road".

[Xilk]

They didn't tell us anything about Toloi until the release.
Though I would appreciate a change to that recipe.

[Caketime]

OMG do want Pixie pet. Or a Butterfly. :3

[Raborn]

What would be nice is if SE released a BST only type of monster (A monster type we've never experienced before and never will unless you play BST). Or something along the lines of allowing us to Call Beastmen to our side. Always wanted to call forth a quadav white mage! (Maybe that breaks the BST code).

On a sub note for secondary BST 2 hour - I think I LOVE the discussion going on in the PUP thread for BST-
Since we're looking for a "Defensive" ability and Beastmasters utilize pets both as an offensive and defensive tool, how about give the pets their respective job's 2 hours? Of course with little boosts here and there to make up for lack of control.

WAR - Mighty Strikes - increases pet's critical hit rate to 100% and decreases enemy critical rate to 0%.
PLD - Invincible - makes pet invulnerable to ALL damage types for a short period of time, increases enmity. (Magic AND Physical, does not apply to ranged attacks)
THF - Perfect Dodge - pet dodges all physical and ranged attacks for a short period of time. (Ranged and Direct)
MNK - Hundred Fists - same as mnk only it increases the counter rate to 100% for the duration. (only works on direct physical attacks)
SMN(?) - Astral Flow - Restores group's HP and MP by 55% (including pet). Temporarily grants the effect of regen.

I think that covers all the pets that a bst would use and can always add more as new job types arrive.
It would also increase the use of specific pets for specific events and possibly add a potential use for them.

[Xilk]

yeah, the proposed pup 2-hour would work much better for bst.

[deces]

According to the timeline our jugs are getting adjustments this month, after all the nerfs to jugmaster over the past year I can only think it will be negative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEedulHTTkc&feature=related

[deces]

It looks like they been sitting with a thumb up there asses not doing shit for the past 4 months.

[Caketime]

It looks like they been sitting with a thumb up there asses not doing shit for the past 4 months.

So much work is going into Chocoburger and making us less capable in Dynamis that they probably haven't had the time.

[Raborn]

According to the timeline our jugs are getting adjustments this month, after all the nerfs to JUGMASTER over the past year I can only think it will be negative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEedulHTTkc&feature=related

Yeah I lol'd so hard. It's so true.

[hiko]

very easy fix to make new SP more usefull: add a "reset call beast timer" effect

[Luvbunny]

I guess you could say they are going "off-road".

I think they are getting road killed over there just like Caith Sith in the SMN's thread. They really need to be more pro-active seeking the player's feedback and stop living in their own bubble world. Ability to listen seems going out of the window. Now that the master of BS balance is no longer in the office, the new guy should take charge and "destroy" the old ways and give ways to new ways for FFXI.:cool:

[Babekeke]

They seem to be going with the "get the new expansion out and everyone's happy, but fix the 5 or 6 broken jobs and only they're happy" theory.

[Luvbunny]

They seem to be going with the "get the new expansion out and everyone's happy, but fix the 5 or 6 broken jobs and only they're happy" theory.

Well seeing how things are run this past year, I doubt the new expansion is going to be any good. If anything, it will take a good year before we are seeing any contents worth to do. You can almost wait 6 months or more before going back to see a good amount of contents. Most are probably not even worth doing with very little reward for the amount of time you need to spend. They lost touch lately, and after abyssea, they can't even get back up to speed to match that content.

[Babekeke]

Apparently they're doing a 'large scale change' to the new BST 2 hour.


Also, as we will be making large scale changes to the below jobs' new special abilities, they will be temporarily removed from the Test Server. Once the adjustments and debugging has been completed for the new effects we will re-implement them to the Test Server.

Red mage / thief /paladin / beastmaster / bard / ranger / ninja / dragoon / corsair

[Luvbunny]

Apparently they're doing a 'large scale change' to the new BST 2 hour.

As long as it does not involve cannibalism - and it enhances the PET and the MASTER. I would not be surprised if the new ideas are just half baked, and rather tame, at worse, it will be even worse than the previous one.

[Xilk]

I've been using the new bst special move on the test server. Its alot of fun.
However, one point to beware of. It does not actually reset the call beast recast at all. You cannot use it as an emergency call beast recast.

While the special ability is active the recast times do not activate at all. This means AFTER you use the special ability, you can spam call beast all you want. but if you use call beast right before the special ability, it will not reset the recast. YOu will not be able to call another pet during the special ability.

However, you CAN spam moves about every 5 seconds.

[Leonardus]

Well hopefully they will consider resetting the timer. Everything else sounds great now. Thanks for checking it out and sharing.

[Caketime]

It's foolish to think that SE would give us an ability that doesn't have some sort of drawback that's in place intentionally to screw us over somehow.

[Delvish]

I've been using the new bst special move on the test server. Its alot of fun.
However, one point to beware of. It does not actually reset the call beast recast at all. You cannot use it as an emergency call beast recast.

While the special ability is active the recast times do not activate at all. This means AFTER you use the special ability, you can spam call beast all you want. but if you use call beast right before the special ability, it will not reset the recast. YOu will not be able to call another pet during the special ability.

However, you CAN spam moves about every 5 seconds.
Camate actually mentioned that this is a bug and will be fixed.