Additions to Redmage

[hideka]

so like most finalfantasy nerds, i took a traipse through FF13-2 (got my platinum trophy) and i thought alot of the abilitys from that game would be easily translated into this game, or at least their catchy names would be swell to use :P

Spells:
Enfeebling

Imperil
32 MP
level55
3 second casting time
Effect: Deals Damage and reduces Monster resistance to Enfeebling magic

Jinx
24 MP
3 Second cast
Effect: Increases potency of enfeebling magic based on enfeebling magic skill.

Wound
75 MP
5 Second Cast
Effect Places a Max HP Down effect on the target ( Effect is cumulative, and stacks). the Max HP down effect is limited to the monster's current missing HP; Example Mob has 1000 HP, rdm Nukes it for 300 damage, lowers it to 700/1000, the RDM then casts Wound for 200 which places a Max HP down effect on the monster, bringing its maximum HP recovery to 800 HP, or 800/1000. ( the HP bar wouldnt show this as a HP down effect, just that the monster can never heal its self over that point.

Pain
50 MP
2 second cast
Effect: augments all enfeebles on the target based on the casters enfeebling magic skill, increases Remaining duration by 30 seconds. see individual enfeebles for effects.
Para> Reduces the monsters TP Usage Frequency
Slow> Increases the monster's Weaponskill Charge time
Blind> lowers the monsters evasion
Gravity> reduces the monsters attack speed
dia > Reduces the monsters Elemental Resistance
Bio > Reduces the monsters Special Defense.
Addle > Reduces the Monster's Magic Accuracy.
Wound > Causes Damage over time equal to 1% of Wounded HP value ( the ammount of HP that the monster cannot recover)


Enhancing


Veilga
160 MP
5 second cast time
Effect: Increases resistance to all status ailments

Vigilga
200 MP
5 second cast time
Reduces the damage from Area of effect abilities.

Renew
100MP
3 second cast time
10 second recast time
Effect: Returns all enhancing magic spells cast by the caster to their maximum values. does not work on buffs NOT applied by the caster.

Nukes

Ruin:
25 MP
1 Second Cast time
3 second recast time
Effect: Deals weak light based damage, increases the next source of elemental damage by +X%. Effect is cumulative, stacks up to 5 times, each application is worth +5% damage. effect wears off when struck from ANY source of elemental damage other then the spell Ruin.

Job Abilities:

Blitz
60 seconds
Delivers a two fold attack. Additional effect: Enhances Enspells
Hidden effect: If an Enspell is currently active on your charachter, then you will preform an "elemental blitz" which is Much more effective then a normal blitz, and carries beneficial effects. (the text log of the blitz effect will be changes based on the currently active enspell Example: enfire is active, Blitz will be displayed as fire blitz)

damage is based off of main hand weapon damage, and the current damage of any enspell.

the use of blitz will enhance enspell and enspells II in different ways
heres an example of how it would improve enfire : Increases Enfires Damage by 100% for 60 seconds, Allows EnfireII to activate on all melee swings for 30 seconds:

Unique blitz effects;
Inferno Blitz> Deals Fire damage, Plauges Target, increases ice based damage dealt to target.

Subzero Blitz> Deals ice damage, Binds Target (breaks after 15 seconds, not by damage), Increases Wind based damage dealt to the target

Whirlwind Blitz > Deals Wind damage, Mutes Target, increases Earth based damage dealt to the target

Fissure Blitz > Deals Earth damage, Petrifies Target ( Not broken by damage, lasts max 15 seconds), increases thunder based damage dealt to the target

Gigavolt Blitz > Deals thunder damage, Stuns Target ( Extremely potent stun), increases Water based damage dealt to the target

Torrential Blitz > Deals water damage, Lowers Targets Magic defense, Increases Fire based damage dealt to the target.


so anywho... day of boredom in jeuno invented this >_> sorry if people dont like it, or the notion of giving rdm a reason to melee

[Doombringer]

hmm.. good not great?

i feel like imperil and jynx are just an extra step to achieve something that should just "be like that" all the time?

then i assume renew resets duration? could be useful, cut down on recycling 10 different buffs. but if it's just potency all it's gonna do is what? super expensive stoneskin?

wound i'm on the fence about. if the mob heals itself that'd be sorta useful, but a lot of mobs don't.


the rest i would like, though i'm sure we wouldn't get aoe versions of veil and vigil :\

[Ophannus]

Renew would be awesome but realistically it would have to have like a 3min recast. Otherwise you'd cast like 200-300mp worth of buffs on yourself then just use Renew to have the timers reset, unless it was a self cast.

[Kristal]

Imperil : cut the damage part and change effect to Magic Evasion Down
Jinx : we got Saboteur for that
Wound: interesting, but I think it would serve more use if it reduced HP Recovery effects. (Cure, Regen, Drain, Absorb-Elem)
Pain: something like COR's elemental shots, but only works on specific enfeebling effects?
Veil : Shell covers this
Vigil : Augmenting Phalanx II could offer this effect, rather then a seperate effect
Ruin : make it non-elemental magic damage, otherwise it's just like Banish or Holy and WHM will get it instead...

[hideka]

yea the way i envisioned renew was a method of consolidating the amount of time spent rebuffing people, and yourself, i failed to mention that the duration would only be returned to the original spells duration before the effects of composure. i melee on rdm and i do it ALOT, my primary reason for wanting this spell was to stop me from having to stop DDing every 6-8 minutes and waste 2 minutes completely rebuffing myself.

it would probably be too hard to implement wound as is, so changing it to

Wound
30 MP
4 Second cast time
Reduces Healing effects received.
Effect: Reduces regen effects by 10-50%, reduces healing effects by 10-30% based on skill.

Imperil i feel is perfect the way it is, simply because it would act as a cheap low damage fast casting nuke, that carries the additional effect of improving your chances to land an enfeeble, since landing enfeebles on some monsters can be hard. changing it to a "MEVA down" effect, would only serve two purposes, 1 being stepping on summoners toes, and the second being making it easier for other people to nuke harder things.


Jinx
34MP
2.5 second cast
6 second recast
Deals Darkness Based Damage and slightly increases the duration of all current enfeebles on the target.

this would give RDM a darkness based cheap nuke that could reasonably extend the durations of their current enfeebling spells, to give them something to do while waiting for enfeeble reapplication. idealy this spell would only be able to extend debuffs by 100% of their natural duration, 10% at a time, so short duration enfeebles would only see 50-75% duration increase.

Pain is exactly how youve described it, but in a much broader spectrum, and Augments the spells effects, not enhances them.

Shell in my experience, dosent do anything in comparison to proper barspells for stoping enfeebling magic, i envisioned this as a way to further rdms niche ( it really dosent even exist right now) and give them a spot enfeeble heavy mobs and AOE heavy battles. so i think veil and vigil achieve that effect

i actually wanted Ruin to be Divine magic, since RDM gets divine skill but not a single divine spell. imperil jinx wound etc would be darkness magic

i was thinking of tagging a MP cost onto the Blitz JA, but im not sure how it would work. idealy i would want it to be 90% negated by the refresh spell over the course of one minute so, that gives us 20 tics of 6 MP, which is 120 MP, so 132 MP for the cost of using the "Blitz" Job ability, does that sound like a good idea?

[ManaKing]

I just rebuff while I fight. Fast Cast really works out better when you already have a celerity to stack it with, but at least it covers all magic for buffing in combat.

[Ophannus]

Would it be feasible to add a property to Composure that allows the use of certain restricted weapon skills i.e Red Lotus Blade/Seraph Blade/Seraph Strike/Sanguine Blade/Vorpal Blade?

[Ophannus]

The thing about Jinx is that it would be difficult to implement. I'm almsot positive that the duration of all spells/buffs are set in stone once they are cast. Depending on if the debuff sticks fully or is a partial resist determines the overall duration it's just that with a debuff, unlike a nuke it's impossible to tell if it's a partial or half resist until the effect actually wears off. For Jinx to work it would need to be an enfeebling spell itself that all spells cast AFTER it would have a duration boost. This is why almost all equipment that 'Enhances X Ability" needs to be worn either PRIOR to using the ability, or prior to the ability's effect activating(as is the case with Saboteur and RDM AF3 hands).

[hideka]

you know i was about to make a post about " i think the devs are smart enough to figure out how to make buffs allready appplied get extended and/or augmented (since theyve already done it with cor)" but.... my faith isnt what it used to be after some of these slipups weve been seeing :/

[Psxpert2011]

No, no no no no no no noooooooo! Rdm doesn't need more crap to show off, seriously. Wont make you any more or any less content or desirable than any other job. Stop requesting more mojo.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No, no no no no no no noooooooo! Rdm doesn't need more crap to show off, seriously. Wont make you any more or any less content or desirable than any other job. Stop requesting more mojo.

Yeah, why ask for spells that may make a job that is currently not used..... well... used.

[hideka]

yea pspxpert rdm has litteraly ZERO demand right now >_> everything we can do, someone else can do better >_> (well except slow and para, which are pretty useless in VW)

[hideka]

oh wait, bard can slow better then we can >_>~

[Psxpert2011]

I think rdm is a good job, an enfeebling class at best and I had a discussion with a mage friend earlier today about why rdm didn't get Cure V (or something like that). Even though Whm is the healing class and the job promotes itself as the top healer above all classes, why give Rdm higher tier cure spells?

Rdm has to master it's enfeebling more than healing, divine and dark spells rather than give mix signals. A lot of things can be suggested for Rdm but to steal the role of other jobs and make it insanely more powerful is like trying really hard to sell a job which could make Rdm less dependent on help.

En-spells are the selling point for a Rdm IMO and that's the coolest thing about the job! If only it can be cast on my H2H by a Rdm party member and have the effectivity as a blm spell, which rdm could probably be the only one who could it (another insane proposal but doable). ;D

Don't make Rdm any more self-sufficient than it already is, they need our help as much as we do theirs'. Peace out!

[tyrantsyn]

I think rdm is a good job, an enfeebling class at best and I had a discussion with a mage friend earlier today about why rdm didn't get Cure V (or something like that). Even though Whm is the healing class and the job promotes itself as the top healer above all classes, why give Rdm higher tier cure spells?

Rdm has to master it's enfeebling more than healing, divine and dark spells rather than give mix signals. A lot of things can be suggested for Rdm but to steal the role of other jobs and make it insanely more powerful is like trying really hard to sell a job which could make Rdm less dependent on help.

En-spells are the selling point for a Rdm IMO and that's the coolest thing about the job! If only it can be cast on my H2H by a Rdm party member and have the effectivity as a blm spell, which rdm could probably be the only one who could it (another insane proposal but doable). ;D

Don't make Rdm any more self-sufficient than it already is, they need our help as much as we do theirs'. Peace out!

Psx I'm not attacking you. But I do feel the need to correct you.

First off as a enfeebling class RDM does come out on top. But, in end game utility the skill has just become useless for the most part. Blanketed immunity on mobs since WOTG has made casting a enfeebling spell on anything that check's as a NM pointless. Which cut's out a large amount of RDM utility.

Cure V would have given RDM a niche position as a party healer. And would have given us more utility against end game content. Of course SE said no to it. And stated that they wanted the role of main healing to stick to WHM to reinforce there place among the party. Fair enough.

RDM has the highest rated enhancing skill in game before gear or light arts. Yet when I comes down to it RDM has very little in the way of spells that help transfer this over to other's. And while some of them can be shared threw accession, other's like the gain line, bar spells, Temper, Refresh and a few other's can not. I plan to address some this in a thread soon, so keep an eye out for it.

Enspells are nice for a damage increase. But there in no way a selling point for RDM. You would think they would be, but in my experience ppl would rather have DNC buff's than RDM's. Would that change if enspell damage increase to 60 to 80 a blow, probably. But it's not going to happen.

Finally, no RDM is out there looking to be more self~efficient. Most ppl that post here want the job to have a stronger place in end game utility. That's it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think rdm is a good job, an enfeebling class at best and I had a discussion with a mage friend earlier today about why rdm didn't get Cure V (or something like that). Even though Whm is the healing class and the job promotes itself as the top healer above all classes, why give Rdm higher tier cure spells?

Rdm has to master it's enfeebling more than healing, divine and dark spells rather than give mix signals. A lot of things can be suggested for Rdm but to steal the role of other jobs and make it insanely more powerful is like trying really hard to sell a job which could make Rdm less dependent on help.

En-spells are the selling point for a Rdm IMO and that's the coolest thing about the job! If only it can be cast on my H2H by a Rdm party member and have the effectivity as a blm spell, which rdm could probably be the only one who could it (another insane proposal but doable). ;D

Don't make Rdm any more self-sufficient than it already is, they need our help as much as we do theirs'. Peace out!

It's a job that excels at all arts, but other than enfeebling in best at none.

Difference being, as it currently stands RDM is a better nuker than healer by a massive margin. SCH and BLM excel at nuking over RDM, but RDM it does well/decently as it should be. Same is not true of curing.

I wont go into it, but people need to realise Cure V would not suddenly make RDM over-powered, nor will it make it the supreme healer. RDM was never that.

If you go down the list of the best jobs.

BLM - Gains unique and powerful black magic.
WHM - Gains unique and powerful white magic.
SCH - Gains unique and powerful black and white magic but is still behind BLM and WHM.
RDM - Gains Refresh II and Composure. WHM and BLM gain the same enfeebles (RDM's mastery) outside of merits and for the few it lands on can land it on them easily. (And the Merits are the equivalent of giving BLM tier V nukes or WHM Cure V and 'na spells via merits.)

[Greatguardian]

What's the big deal? Cures 1-4 are getting a huge revamp anyways. There's no real "need" for Cure V in a backup role post-March.

[Ophannus]

Adding those WS would make RDM better in low man Abyssea procing and VW procing at least or at least enhance our solo play in Abyssea. Countless times wanted to be able to proc with Red Lotus Blade or Seraph Blade when soloing NMs in Abyssea. /sigh

[Greatguardian]

You probably already have a BLU in Voidwatch anyways. You don't need to waste a slot on redundant sword procs.

Even if procs are covered, it's a slot where you could haz a ukonz for dmgz.

[ManaKing]

It would just be nice to be able to slow down or cripple a NM with enfeebles. I guess that would make the game 'easy' but I don't really think it would change anything about the current game, since it's not exactly hard. Maybe people would want the extra safety of real enfeebles. Maybe they wouldn't. Hard to tell since it's been a long time since RDM actually offered real utility.

[SpankWustler]

could haz a ukonz for dmgz.

http://img1.etsystatic.com/il_fullxfull.214200537.jpg

[Psxpert2011]

Psx I'm not attacking you. But I do feel the need to correct you.

First off as a enfeebling class RDM does come out on top. But, in end game utility the skill has just become useless for the most part. Blanketed immunity on mobs since WOTG has made casting a enfeebling spell on anything that check's as a NM pointless. Which cut's out a large amount of RDM utility.

Cure V would have given RDM a niche position as a party healer. And would have given us more utility against end game content. Of course SE said no to it. And stated that they wanted the role of main healing to stick to WHM to reinforce there place among the party. Fair enough.

RDM has the highest rated enhancing skill in game before gear or light arts. Yet when I comes down to it RDM has very little in the way of spells that help transfer this over to other's. And while some of them can be shared threw accession, other's like the gain line, bar spells, Temper, Refresh and a few other's can not. I plan to address some this in a thread soon, so keep an eye out for it.

Enspells are nice for a damage increase. But there in no way a selling point for RDM. You would think they would be, but in my experience ppl would rather have DNC buff's than RDM's. Would that change if enspell damage increase to 60 to 80 a blow, probably. But it's not going to happen.

Finally, no RDM is out there looking to be more self~efficient. Most ppl that post here want the job to have a stronger place in end game utility. That's it.


There you go, very informative post is much needed here. Thank you for the corrections!



It's a job that excels at all arts, but other than enfeebling in best at none.

Difference being, as it currently stands RDM is a better nuker than healer by a massive margin. SCH and BLM excel at nuking over RDM, but RDM it does well/decently as it should be. Same is not true of curing.

I wont go into it, but people need to realise Cure V would not suddenly make RDM over-powered, nor will it make it the supreme healer. RDM was never that.


I still think Rdm is a powerful job that some people still want to make even more powerful. Most jobs can be seen as a "jack-of-all-trades" but nothing like rdm. A Redmage is a Redmage is his/her own right but it also has melee capabilities that could receive improvements, not just in the magic department.

Did it ever cross your mind that Redmages resemble musketeers or fencer type heros (not to forget Zorro)? ;D

[FrankReynolds]

There you go, very informative post is much needed here. Thank you for the corrections!

I still think Rdm is a powerful job that some people still want to make even more powerful. Most jobs can be seen as a "jack-of-all-trades" but nothing like rdm. A Redmage is a Redmage is his/her own right but it also has melee capabilities that could receive improvements, not just in the magic department.

Did it ever cross your mind that Redmages resemble musketeers or fencer type heros (not to forget Zorro)? ;D

I'm pretty sure you are just posting out of boredom. That's fine though. I am too.

On topic: I like the look of almost all the OP's ideas. I especially like pain and ruin. Somehow I don't think they plan to give red mage much more though :/

[Kristal]

Giving RDM access to elemental sword weaponskills without subbing a non-mage melee job should placate some of the anger, I reckon?

[Crimson_Slasher]

Even if those weaponskills arent all that powerful (partially excluding vorpal blade even if it isnt crazy strong, it is in the top 3 sword ws for dmg) it is something that isnt all that unbalanced for rdm to have, though admittedly im one of those that thinks a certain degree of skill should allow for most/all ws access, though at the same time im sure a job like war is why they limit access to some ws (though why war has the sword access puzzles me, though is likely tied to sword/shield combat like pld?)

I still think rdm updates should be about cutting the waste, and streamlining at this point, but anything i could say has been said before by me and/or by others. As for *NEW* things that they could add, these new enfeebles seem a bit complicated, but not at all unwelcome, however renew...LOVE IT, i truely do, i love the idea of being able to keep my buffs up 100% of the time, as well as on others!

[saevel]

No, no no no no no no noooooooo! Rdm doesn't need more crap to show off, seriously. Wont make you any more or any less content or desirable than any other job. Stop requesting more mojo.

And the alternative is ...... what exactly?

For big group play RDM has .. Cure IV ... Haste ... Refresh and Dia III.

Assuming the NM isn't super resistance to enfeebles / has potency reduction, your enfeebles are.

Slow II -> monster hits slower, TP moves and magic still kills you.
Paralyze II -> monster might miss attack round, TP moves and magic sill kill you (somehow they don't get paralyzed during casting, or SE made them immune to the effect).
Blind II -> Monster goes from 150% hit rate to 130% hit rate, still hits you, TP moves and magic still kill you.
Bio III -> Lowers monsters attack, deals slight DoT. Monsters Ratio is still prevented from going under floor, TP moves and magic still kill you.
Dia III -> Lowers monsters defense, significant increase to melee damage dealt. Monster dies faster, TP moves and magic still kill you.
Addle -> reduces monsters casting speed slightly, monsters TP moves and magic still kill you.

Are you getting the idea already, our enfeebles don't do jack sh!t to reduce the targets offensive capability and right now SE is just giving everything insane offensive ability. The enfeebles that do something don't do enough of it on anything made in the past two years. The other day a friend of mine and me did some KSNM99's for Fafnir pops. I went in as RDM/NIN and him BLM (to drop it quickly to the ground) and we destroyed it. Slow II + Blind II were easily noticeable on it. It still hit like a truck but it's magic didn't even scratch me. Later we poped Fafnir twice (got crap drops btw) and I hit it with full debuffs and Jesus that guy might as well of been a level 0 bunny. Paralyze II was evident in the near constant paralyzes along with Slow / Blind effect. You see nothing like that on anything made in the last few years. Yet still, even after reducing it to a panzy it hit hard And looking back at both fights, not having any enfeebles wouldn't of made a slight bit of difference no matter the level. All they did was reduce it's offensive melee power, it's TP moves remained the same.

What I'm hinting at is that SE has purposely made all their more recent NM's either immune or have severe potency reduction. Even if they go about removing all the "special defense" they put on their NM's, the reduction in offensive power wouldn't be enough to justify a RDM's position. What does more damage to the alliance, the monsters melee hits, or the stupid powerful aoe's it uses?

[hideka]

someone made an interesting point on enhancing, and heres my take on how this Spell should work

Boon
RDM
30 Second ReCast time
50 MP
Applies all of the casters currently active Redmage Enhancing magic spells to the target.
Mechanics: works just like Empathy, copies all current buffs, and their durations/potency to the target of this spell, can target alliance members

Boonaga
150MP
3:00 minute recast
Applies all of the casters currently active Redmage Enhancing magic spells to any target in range.
Mechanics: Same as boon, but AOE, and restricted to party only

[hideka]

also thanks for all the positive comments, i really appreciate it.

[Duelle]

I like Imperil. Jynx is not really needed, though. Wound and Pain I think wouldn't really work based on the limitations of the battle engine. Veilga and Vigilga sound like they belong on WHM. Renew, on the other hand, I REALLY like. Would make RDM gameplay, specially when self-buffing for melee, easier to bear.

As far as Blitz, I like the concept, but I'd drop the whole elemental wheel aspect of it. Instead, it should build up off of itself (Eg: Inferno Blitz reduces resistance to fire-based damage). I'm iffy on the enfeeble effects attached to them, but I do like the possibility of blending enfeebling into melee. Should probably be on a 45-second timer instead of 60 seconds, IMO.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I like Imperil. Jynx is not really needed, though. Wound and Pain I think wouldn't really work based on the limitations of the battle engine. Veilga and Vigilga sound like they belong on WHM. Renew, on the other hand, I REALLY like. Would make RDM gameplay, specially when self-buffing for melee, easier to bear.

As far as Blitz, I like the concept, but I'd drop the whole elemental wheel aspect of it. Instead, it should build up off of itself (Eg: Inferno Blitz reduces resistance to fire-based damage). I'm iffy on the enfeeble effects attached to them, but I do like the possibility of blending enfeebling into melee. Should probably be on a 45-second timer instead of 60 seconds, IMO.

Could make it that they enhance potency, or duration for enfeebles instead.