Enough. 99 BRD, Still singing same song from level 60.

[Sebi]

Definitely want Massacre Elegy. Fast cast would be useful, but I think I would rather have something exclusive to bard. COR has caster's roll which gives fast cast. Cor has a lot of the good buffs actually. A Quick song effect would be very cool for songs cast with Gjallarhorn (100% quick magic effect on songs), but would probably be too much.


Other random ideas for Bard. Not neccesarily G.horn.

A song which reduces the size of the area of effect of enemy abilities.(does not stack with elegy/next AoE ability only perhaps)
A song which increases the rate of shield blocking/parrying/countering for party members within area of effect for jobs who have those skills.
A song which increases the rate of skill ups for combat/magic skills.
A song which increases the maximum casting range for party members in area of effect
A song which occasionally turns enmity gained on an action into enmity loss.
A song which draws in an enemy/party member.
A song which occasionally maximizes magic accuracy for party members within area of effect.
A song which causes damage over time effects of an element to recover party member's HP when used in conjunction with Carol II.
A song which removes a monster's elemental affinity. Resistance to this effect builds similar to gravity.
A song which activates aftermath effects. Strength of aftermath based on singing/instrument skill.
A song which provides TP bonus.
A song which knocks back an enemy(wind instrument/enemy target), knocks all enemies away from the bard within area of effect(stringed instruemnt/self target)
A song which increases resistance to all status effects.
A song which increases resistance to death.
A song which inflicts amnesia on a monster or a song that increases the amount of TP required for a monster to use a TP move.(does not stack with elegy)
Chocobo hum and Cactuar Fugue.
A song which occasionally gives the effect of quick magic to party members within area of effect.
A song which lowers the recast on job abilities/increases the rate at which reuse timers count down.
A song which reduces damage taken (for when scherzo doesn't trigger)
A set of songs which when paired tranfer a portion of enmity generated from the the recipient(s) of one song to the recipient of the other song.
A song that makes melee attacks AoE like an ironclad.

A job ability that centres the next song on a party/alliance member.(mythic or empyrean harp effect)
A Job abilty that makes the next single target song AoE.
A job ability that prevents a monster from dispelling/asborbing the next song casted.

A job trait that prevent etude degredation.
A job trait that enhances the strength of songs when more than 1 bard is present in a party.

Equipment that enhances the potency/duration/number of songs castable with marcato.

After seeing the recent release of the relics at 99, every single relic/mythic/Emp gets huge boost of stats and usefulness. I patiently months for any changes to direction of BRD updates. They only go in one direction, straight down the toilet. Each update sadder and more useless then it's previous.

Take this as rant or another bogus complaint of a dying job but the Dev team has honestly not even TRIED this update or any of the last 4-5 to add BRD to new "Balanced" FFXI. If you took half the effort you spent into DRK, SAM & WAR, I swear we would have a use for BRD in this new system of events.

Above are suggestions, made over and over by "Career BRDs" people who give a damm and want to see change. There is 7 page thread, with 3 pages following the above post of comments and ways they can be implemented. The poster above already did the thinking for you. Nothing difficult about changing or adding anything from above, I mean really how hard was it for you guys to think of the carol II useless set?

Every other job is reaching their peak, as if the game was back at 75. They are useful, they are refreshed in a sort of way, they are even completely changed. You guys took 3 pages to make changes to PUP. Brought it out of a long grave, why hasn't the same come for BRD by now. It did afterall come first.

I do have Ghorn, planning on a pink Harp but BRD needs major changes and fast. In addition to all the suggest from above. The dev team can nerf/change the following:

Army Paeon I-VI - In addition to giving Regen, now should give a Adloquium-like Regain. 1/tic regain.

Knight's Minne - In addition to Defense, should give a phalanx-like effect or help in magic defense bonus.

Foe Requiem - Higher DMG per tic. Dia-like effect, lowers def. (Landing it on something worthwhile would also be a plus.)

Madrigal - Acc is capped for everyone, Changing effect to give Critical hit rate+ would be far more useful.

March - Magic Haste cap is very limiting, March should have it's own form of "Non" magic haste when natural haste cap is reached.

Pining Nocturne - Needs to stack with addle, this spell conflicts with Addle in Voidwatch, may jeopardize a proc, while waiting for it to wear.

Etude - As the WHM Boost Spells just reached 25 stats, these need to be increased in potency and turned into AoE spells.

Finale - With instruments that have +Finale effect, this songs, needs to be able to dispel multiple debuffs.

Minuet - Add Store TP or Save TP to this set of songs, as attack can reach a cap and recent WSs have attack penalties.

Prelude - Just like ACC, Range accuracy is seldom a problem now for RNGs. Adding snapshot to this set of songs would truly enhance BRD effectiveness towards range attack jobs. Currently COR is carrying the torch.

Ballad - MP is no longer an issue, due abyssea/voidwatch Temp items. Adding either Fastcast or MP while resting to this might make it more appealing (/shrug.)

The above are suggestions to songs we already have, granted some of them are more lucrative than others, these changes are vital, take from it as you need. Add to it what you want. At the end of the day, BRD needs change and fast.

[Zikon]

Hire this guy and implement his stuff

[detlef]

Most of that stuff is overpowered. I like that.

[Badieh]

The songs could have a 1-2 minute duration with a 5 minute recast.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

99.9% of these are stupid..

[Creelo]

I honestly think the feasible buffs and songs we could get for Bard at the moment are...

-Tier III March
-TP Regain (Starting out at 1tp/regain, would greatly benefit Gjallarhorn owners)
-Massacre Elegy (Whatever happened to this?)
-MDB down Song (...Whatever happened to this as well?)
-Requiem actually landing on NMs/Bosses
-A Job Trait that reduces Song Spellcasting Time (I still think a lvl 99 Bard should be able to play songs at least slightly faster than a lvl 1 one, regardless of gear. x.x)

I'd also like to see Finale actually dispel multiple debuffs as well, especially against mobs that absorb crap tons of party buffs like Sandworms/Vampyrs.

Would be nice if community reps could ask Dev team about this stuff and kinda give us a status update on Bard. :/

[Sebi]

Whole point of my post is to give them a sense of direction to move into. I know most are over the top, but it gives the Dev team somewhere to start. Creelo's post is very realistic, very simple and I am surprised we didn't even get those basic songs yet. (also only way it seems they ever reply to these things, is if it becomes a "Hot Topic", get posting people. This means YOU, my fellow lurker BRDs!)

[Reain]

The problem I see with this is, rephrasing it you're suggesting:

adding Tactician's Roll to Army Paeon I-VI.
adding Magus's Roll to Minne
adding Rogue's Roll to Madrigal.
adding Samurai's Roll/Miser's Roll to Minuet.
adding Courser's Roll to Prelude.
adding Caster's Roll to Ballad.

The corsairs are going to kill you.

I think these changes are unlikely. It's a bit like asking Fighter's roll to give 20% haste and Earth shot to inflict 50% slow. I think Bard and Corsair should be unique and compliment each other, not compete for each other's buffs.

Even if we were to get these types of buffs I think they would be seperate songs so you have to decide which songs to use.

I think they will fix requiem resistance as the same time they fix enfeebling resistance. It's kinda funny and sad we can cast requiem 7 times in a row using 7 tiers and get resisted all 7 times on nearly every monster.

I would like Nocturne and Addle to stack, even if it was just the -magic accuracy effect that stacked and only the stronger +casting time effect applied.

It would be great if Etudes/Preludes/Sirvente/Dirge were made AoE since we can single target them with Pianissimo now and it wouldn't be overpowered at 99 cap.

Magic Finale dispelling multiple effects would be welcome, but it is less of an issue since the minimum recast time update.

I'd say all the songs we've got since the level cap was increased from 75 are good, except Nocturne. But they aren't very exciting, mostly new tiers of stuff we had. I wanted new, exciting, exclusive effects, which is what I was trying to suggest.

Saying that, I still think we should get our Tier3 Madrigal/Mambo/March. I really wonder what the tier3 Mambo would be called.

I would also like either a Pet: March song(I think haste is our territory) or a Job ability that makes the next song(or next 2 songs) cast on party members affect their pets aswell.

Can Dark Carol II annul death? Has anyone seen it happen?

It would be nice for them to post something about bard.

[Sebi]

I am an Armaggedon COR, love the job. Nothing against it. All I said/proposed was our songs to have the usefulness of their rolls. The fact that Cor has 12 levels of power in each roll 1-12, they would never nerf our songs to have anything near a roll of 11.

Also with this being said, I don't see how they will ever "compete" for buffer slot. BRD is a full time buffer, relies mostly on other people. While COR has stepped forward into a primary source of DMG for majority of VW. Bring BRD out of the grave it's in, will not and should not have an effect of COR's Reign.

My ideas are out of the box and very high on the expectations of the Dev team. However, if you guys haven't learned anything so far. When you propose things on here, go heavy because they are going to always downsize and disappoint you.

The only spell that turned out to be a game changer above 75 was Scherzo, being so unique. It was nice to get something out of the box for BRD. Beyond that you can tell the Dev team gave up. "Here's a boat load of Carols." It's not even Xmas anymore~ heh.

[Yinnyth]

The fact that Cor has 12 levels of power in each roll 1-12, they would never nerf our songs to have anything near a roll of 11.

Although SE has stated they wanted corsair rolls to be roughly the same strength as 2 bard songs when cor hits 11 on a roll, this simply is not the case. Several key rolls (dnc, smn, pld) are significantly weaker than their song counterparts, especially if you factor in marcato or soul voice. And as the title of this thread implies, the same songs are always used (double march unless using SV, marcato, more than one bard, or daurdabla), and corsair has nothing that can stack up to marches yet. Miser's roll came darned close, but it's getting nerfed next update.

My opinion is that if they're going to be boosting songs, they should be boosting the songs that bards never use, not the ones we use all the time. That would encourage some thought on the part of the bard instead of just mindlessly using the same ones over and over. So I disagree when the OP says march, minuet, and ballad needs boosts. Madrigal, I'm kinda on the fence about... it's still situationally useful and still one of the staple songs of the job. Stuff like paeon, minne, etudes, and the status resist songs though, sure, boost the hell outta those. Make them strong enough that a bard would have to stop and think "is double march really the best option right now...?" every now and then.

[Creelo]

My opinion is that if they're going to be boosting songs, they should be boosting the songs that bards never use, not the ones we use all the time. That would encourage some thought on the part of the bard instead of just mindlessly using the same ones over and over. So I disagree when the OP says march, minuet, and ballad needs boosts. Madrigal, I'm kinda on the fence about... it's still situationally useful and still one of the staple songs of the job. Stuff like paeon, minne, etudes, and the status resist songs though, sure, boost the hell outta those. Make them strong enough that a bard would have to stop and think "is double march really the best option right now...?" every now and then.

The problem though is that it's incredibly difficult to beat March/Minuet/Scherzo/Ballad, especially now where content is focused largely upon taking out enemies swiftly and efficiently. Paeons and Status Resistance songs are actually pretty decent but aren't truly needed and aren't worth the loss of kill speed. Status effects can be handled by mages, which should be out of AoE Debuff range anyways, or through Fanatic's/Fool's/Items where applicable.

I do feel Minne/Carols could use a slight buff; however, Minne is still just defense which is lol worthy because of how defense works in this game. Carols I do think could use 10-20 additional elemental resistance to them considering how high elemental resistance needs to be in order to be effective.

Personally, if the dev team were to spend any precious time on Bard, I'd still rather them focus on these I listed earlier.



-Tier III March
-TP Regain Buff Song
-Massacre Elegy
-MDB down Debuff Song
-Requiem actually landing on NMs/Bosses
-A Job Trait that reduces Song Spellcasting Time
-Finale dispelling more than just 1 Buff Effect.


Thinking about it now, I think a PDT and MT (or perhaps just DT) song buff could be quite nice as well since it would help cover spots where Minne is useless and damage taken isn't high enough to proc Scherzo. These buffs could also easily be skill based as well, which would be nice since we no longer need skill to maximize our useful buffs at 99.

[Glamdring]

the big problem i see is that the SE vision of bard has never been evolved, or even monitorred in concert with game changes. We've always been thought of as sort of a necessary evil, because while we can help the other jobs boost _____, we don't really do anything ourselves, and if we're REALLY working the songs we don't have time to do much of anything else. Face it, our casting times are long, our cool-down times are long, and alot of our songs need to be "doubled-up" to really be perceived to be worth it. The flip side-no MP cost, no magic aggro, and outside silence, para, stun or knock-back we won't be interrupted-these are actually pretty sweet plusses to the job, but in a party (that isn't being stupid) we should be able to avoid hate, unless we're being tasked with something else-like pulling. I think SE believes we're in a good place right now. It just doesn't wash.

The common thread on every job-outside the obligatory "makemyjobamazingomgwtfgod-mode" 5k threads-is to make the job relevant, necessary and desireable at end-game levels in general, instead of just situational utility. A big problem is the players-not the Devs-only think of 1 way to get things done and it generally leads to jobs being marginalized. So we throw it back at the Devs as if our jobs can't function at these levels/content (they can) instead of the real issue that noone wants to let us in because it's not how people choose to do it.

With bard, all of the above is fairly easy to address-add another tier (or 2 for those that were on a faster pace [Paeon and Requiem respectively]) to the songs that people actually want us using to accomodate the extra 24 levels that have been added. Here's the issue tho-with the haste on all the gear that's been added the cap is reachable without another March tier, noone cares about accuracy, defence (outside a few narrow situations) is ignored in favor of DPS, MP recovery is thought by most to be "good enough" that Ballad is out, not enough damage is being taken to require resting between pulls so Paeon during down-time isn't needed, and lastly our few debuffs land as they are (excepting Requiem)-with SE not wanting us to slow mobs anymore since Elegy + Slow is already as slow as they want to go for "balance". I see their point on the last, the game generally IS laughable in terms of difficulty, but that isn't helping my bard get some playing time love.

TBH, I think the key to get bard (and cor, rdm, and to a certain extent smn for that matter) more end-game love is tougher content so that support players are needed again, but I'm not sure how the idea of mobs that can take a hit and hit back-outside rare NM fights-would sit with the current playerbase.

[saevel]

Hmm I can get behind a significant reduction in BRD casting times. Would give you more time to do other stuff, which is entirely up to you. You guys got epic melee gear and access to magian daggers, could do a mean Evis / Exten setup while also maintaining buffs. Go /DNC for Haste Samba just to abuse buffs even more.

[Lokithor]

What BRD needs is a series of self-only songs, fast cast songs that can give some individual utility outside of party support and allow you to have front line value, similar to dnc or cor. Combined with Tenuto, you could still apply other party buffs. The biggest ones would be crit rate, forced crit, crit damage, etc. A forced crit would allow bard to use make effective use of Twashtar. I'm sure lots of other self only buffs could be devised.

[detlef]

What BRD needs is a series of self-only songs, fast cast songs that can give some individual utility outside of party support and allow you to have front line value, similar to dnc or cor. Combined with Tenuto, you could still apply other party buffs. The biggest ones would be crit rate, forced crit, crit damage, etc. A forced crit would allow bard to use make effective use of Twashtar. I'm sure lots of other self only buffs could be devised.Why ask for a self-only FC song when you can just ask for the job trait?

The biggest limiting factor is simply the number of songs you can apply. NQ BRDs can only give 2 songs and guess what? In most situations double marches are the best for melee and double ballads are best for mages. The only way to get around this is like Creelo said. Make a super awesome march that opens up a slot for another song, or allow more than 2 songs effects to be active.

Another thing that I think should be considered is increasing the base duration of buffs. When you think about it, 2 minutes is not very long at all. Rolls still last over twice as long. Even something as simple as increasing duration to 2:30 would be fantastic.

[Reain]

Another thing that I think should be considered is increasing the base duration of buffs. When you think about it, 2 minutes is not very long at all. Rolls still last over twice as long. Even something as simple as increasing duration to 2:30 would be fantastic.

It does seem they thought this too. Unfortunately, Daurdabla was the wrong place to put Increase song effect duration. On Gjallarhorn or as a job trait would have been better. I'm not sure they could just add it though since it's the Carnwenhan effect too.

[detlef]

Ghorn increases song duration by default with its +song stat. Daurdabla (even at 99) provides a duration increase equal to that of the level 95 Ghorn without increasing the potency. I think they just wanted to put both instruments on roughly equal footing duration-wise.

My suggestion is that song duration simply be increased rather than having to obtain gear for it.

[Reain]

I think they didn't envision recasting with +3 instruments to be honest. Most songs have and +2 or +3 instrument, so it's really just songs without an instrument(Status resist/Scherzo/Dirge/Sirvente [excluding Gjallarhorn]) that benefit, which limits the usefulness of the "Increases song effect duration" on it.

It's still the best instrument in the game of course.

[Scribble]

I patiently months for any changes to direction of BRD updates. They only go in one direction, straight down the toilet. Each update sadder and more useless then it's previous.

I don't recall BRD ever being in a sad state, much less useless...

Anyhow, I'm not quite sure why you'd want to add effects to spells that are covered by other jobs. I don't BRD, but if I did I would want exclusive songs that would make me stand out instead of feeling like a substitute. Not meaning to knock your post because at least you presented ideas, but I would rather see them implement something new instead of recycling traits/spells/abilities from other jobs. I think it would add more options for players and encourage more diverse groups if jobs didn't share too many of the same buffs or debuffs.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

What BRD needs is a series of self-only songs, fast cast songs that can give some individual utility outside of party support and allow you to have front line value, similar to dnc or cor. Combined with Tenuto, you could still apply other party buffs. The biggest ones would be crit rate, forced crit, crit damage, etc. A forced crit would allow bard to use make effective use of Twashtar. I'm sure lots of other self only buffs could be devised.

They really don't.

[Lokithor]

They really don't.

Thank you for your insightful contribution to the discussion.

Brd has nothing to offer now except very limited party buffs that can be done just as well by other jobs without offering any more utility or even any value in solo play. Having a way to keep that party buff value while bringing more diversity, such as possible with COR or DNC, would revitalize the job.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Thank you for your insightful contribution to the discussion.

Brd has nothing to offer now except very limited party buffs that can be done just as well by other jobs without offering any more utility or even any value in solo play. Having a way to keep that party buff value while bringing more diversity, such as possible with COR or DNC, would revitalize the job.

What the hell are you on about? BRD offers a load of stuff to parties, the one thing they don't need is self-buffs only. Nor does it need you to try to make it a DD to compete with COR.

[Lokithor]

Brd offers exactly 2 things - 2 buffs per member. Mob debuffs are next to useless. They can have meh healing value with /whm but other than that, nothing. What else is on this list of amazing things that Brd offers to parties?

COR can apply 2 buffs to the party as well. At the same time, they can deal very decent damage. DNC can buff, debuff, cure, heal, and also do decent damage.

Brd? Sing 2 songs and then stand around until the timer comes up again. What fun!

[detlef]

Brd offers exactly 2 things - 2 buffs per member. Mob debuffs are next to useless. They can have meh healing value with /whm but other than that, nothing. What else is on this list of amazing things that Brd offers to parties?

Brd? Sing 2 songs and then stand around until the timer comes up again. What fun!
Well you're only really standing around and doing nothing if you are terrible. There's no difference between BRD as you describe it and a COR who does nothing but rolls.

There really is a ton of stuff that can be done in between songs including, but not limited to, curing, hasting, removing status effects, and finding magic weaknesses. Also, Elegy will never be worthless and light based dispel that can be cast at max casting range is almost always helpful.

Frankly, I am not worried about this job losing its niche. I'd like to see improvements here and there, but it's more about making my job easier, not more useful.

[Flionheart]

Brd offers exactly 2 things - 2 buffs per member. Mob debuffs are next to useless. They can have meh healing value with /whm but other than that, nothing. What else is on this list of amazing things that Brd offers to parties?

COR can apply 2 buffs to the party as well. At the same time, they can deal very decent damage. DNC can buff, debuff, cure, heal, and also do decent damage.

Brd? Sing 2 songs and then stand around until the timer comes up again. What fun!

Elegy is useless now? Hardly. I can cure, haste, buff, debuff, DD and sing songs as a bard. If you only stand around singing two songs and waiting for the recast timer, you're a pants on head retarded BRD.

Also Finale.

[Lokithor]

I don't stand around between songs as my post suggests. But MOST of what you do between party buffs is due to your sub and for the most part are done better by normally present party or alliance members like whm. And DD? Lol. If you are melee'ing, you're doing so because you're bored and the party of friends you are with put up with it.

So, where are the BARD abilities that make such a difference? Like it or not, the value of bard has all but disappeared since the death of the traditional, bird xp party where the value of the bard was as much for pulling to keep the DD's fed to extend the chain as it was for 2x march. Without question, brd has become the definition of niche jobs in this game.

The OP's title says it all. Still singing the same songs.

[Creelo]

And DD? Lol. If you are melee'ing, you're doing so because you're bored and the party of friends you are with put up with it.

Brd DD can actually be fairly decent. The only problem is that it requires a wide variety of pretty darn good gear and a lot of it to pull it off.

I definitely agree though. A Brd's SJ definitely has a huge impact on what kind of Brd you'll be playing, offensive/melee or defensive/supportive. This probably goes for a lot of jobs, but I feel it especially goes for Brd. This versatility does add a lot of potential to Brd though that I feel a lot of people forget about or haven't seen.

[Starry]

Brd DD can actually be fairly decent. The only problem is that it requires a wide variety of pretty darn good gear and a lot of it to pull it off.

I definitely agree though. A Brd's SJ definitely has a huge impact on what kind of Brd you'll be playing, offensive/melee or defensive/supportive. This probably goes for a lot of jobs, but I feel it especially goes for Brd. This versatility does add a lot of potential to Brd though that I feel a lot of people forget about or haven't seen.

FFXI is all a game of comparisons; and BRD DD is not 'fairly decent' compared to any other job(with the exception of WHM). Heavy DD"s(SAM,WAR,DRK) blow it completely out of the water; soft DD's(THF,COR,ETC) all do tremendously better then BRD as well.

I don't care what gear your bard has, even a full perle drk with a somewhat lousy weapon is still going to out DD a BRD; as such I wouldn't call it 'decent' by any means.

[Creelo]

FFXI is all a game of comparisons; and BRD DD is not 'fairly decent' compared to any other job(with the exception of WHM). Heavy DD"s(SAM,WAR,DRK) blow it completely out of the water; soft DD's(THF,COR,ETC) all do tremendously better then BRD as well.

I don't care what gear your bard has, even a full perle drk with a somewhat lousy weapon is still going to out DD a BRD; as such I wouldn't call it 'decent' by any means.

Ignorant response is ignorant.

A Brd's March x2 alone on all DDs, including the DDing Brd itself, trumps many if not all other DD jobs for that single slot that the Brd is taking up.

A Brd/dnc could also provide Haste Samba, which would make them even more useful for that party slot.

I'm by no means saying that a Brd can/should be meleeing in every situation in this game; that's probably the first rule to understanding how to play a proper DD Brd. However, there are still plenty of situations where a Brd could technically jump into the fray, not be a liability, still provide their buffs, and perform decent damage. Yes, decent damage.

And just for the record, I'm about 100% positive I could out DD a full Perle Drk with a lousy weapon on my own DD Brd, especially if I don't share my songs. You can leave these forums now.

[saevel]

FFXI is all a game of comparisons; and BRD DD is not 'fairly decent' compared to any other job(with the exception of WHM). Heavy DD"s(SAM,WAR,DRK) blow it completely out of the water; soft DD's(THF,COR,ETC) all do tremendously better then BRD as well.

I don't care what gear your bard has, even a full perle drk with a somewhat lousy weapon is still going to out DD a BRD; as such I wouldn't call it 'decent' by any means.


That is wrong, period.

While BRD isn't no where near the heavy DD's, and as a pure support job it shouldn't be. But I've seen some ridiculous BRD's in my time. Get good STR Daggers, or one of the super daggers, make a TP and WS set and go nuts. Exten or Evis take your pick.

The only way a BRD's melee capacity seems weak is that due to their role being to sign songs, when their singing their not doing damage, which is understandable. Their damage capability while their not singing songs though is quite acceptable. It's just another thing to spend that time in-between songs rather then sitting around waiting for something to happen.

[Flionheart]

That is wrong, period.

While BRD isn't no where near the heavy DD's, and as a pure support job it shouldn't be. But I've seen some ridiculous BRD's in my time. Get good STR Daggers, or one of the super daggers, make a TP and WS set and go nuts. Exten or Evis take your pick.

The only way a BRD's melee capacity seems weak is that due to their role being to sign songs, when their singing their not doing damage, which is understandable. Their damage capability while their not singing songs though is quite acceptable. It's just another thing to spend that time in-between songs rather then sitting around waiting for something to happen.

Also add to the fact that BRD has some powerful TP and WS gear options, and a free 2% haste with the angel lyre. Anyone saying

"I don't care what gear your bard has, even a full perle drk with a somewhat lousy weapon is still going to out DD a BRD; as such I wouldn't call it 'decent' by any means."

Has no idea how this game works. I've out DD'd plenty of people with mediocre DD gear. The only thing BRD lacks is native stats (STR, DEX etc) and abilities that augment their DD capability. (This is made up by constant double march, though.)

[Glamdring]

yep, brd can melee. Certainly we aren't going to out-do many jobs, but we're not just taking up space either. The main problem with melee bard is that the more we gear to hit/damage, the worse our Def tends to be, and in this day and age of AoE spam Squishy is NOT the way you want to be... The other problem of course is that unless you are rocking the 99 harp or relic horn you're probably carrying enough gear to need a road crew for your 1 man band, adding in melee sets of armor just makes the problem worse. Our sub has alot to say as well, /nin or dnc we're probably carrying daggers or maybe swords or clubs, but anything else and we're probably backline with ele staves, and staff isn't that great of a weap to begin with so 40 levels out of date REALLY doesn't help. Still, I usually melee unless i'm tasked with back-up healing or pulling, then I'm just too damn busy since everything dies so fast... especially if I'm doing my buffing job.