Letter to SE Development Team: Tanka I hope you read this

[Unctgtg]

Dear SE,

I write this letter with a heavy heart asking what have you done to our favorite MMO these last few years. Since Abyssea (awesome expansions for leveling and gear that came out of it) there have been no expansions, content that just involves popping an NM with HORRIBLE drop rates which have become better known as time sinks. We have asked repeatedly for more story lines, more content. This most recent update has left many of us wondering what exactly you are trying to do. Obviously the development team has no intentions of true content, but instead focusing their attention on reviving old content which in reality has become dead to a majority of us. Your own development team continues to ignore what we as a player base want, and continue to follow their own demented ideas. Prime example of this, the relics/emp/mythic topics (they have been a hot topic since you failed to implement them in December update), then when word got out what you were planning, the entire community went absolutely crazy. Many topics were created by many players expressing their concerns, ideas to fix the problem, but were ignored. We wanted actual kills (which would not be that bad even with 20). You even went as far as deleting a couple of the topics, only to restore again when you saw how upset we as a community became. Again you disappointed us.

Legion: That was the talk of the town for a while, had test server events, got us all excited, and pull the it is not ready yet. So this past update we got 3 new sets of gear. Nyzul isle revamped (old content) that are so random that we have to pray we get a certain floor. Again you disappoint us.

In closing, your player base will continue to decline because you fail to provide us with the content we desire.

Sincerely,
/Unc

[Rezeak]

the r/m/e stuff i could live with even if i felt it was dumb.

but the way n. isle was added put me a step closer to quitting tho really the only reason i still play is cause my friends still play the game.

funny cause if you made the content easy or relative to abyssea like say giving us an hour to reach 100 in the new nyzul isle i may of tryed FFXIV after FFXI died but i pretty much decided afer the r/m/e/adl stuff not to even bother with it.

[Psxpert2011]

Are you sure you want Tanaka to read this,right? Who in the world is "Tanka"??

[Sparthos]

That's Mama Tanaka to you, Mario.

[Brolic]

wasn't tanka an native american wwf wrestler back in the day?

[Zarchery]

Jesus Christ. Delusions of grandeur much?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, these sorts of "open letters to Square Enix" have been written since the inception of the game. People get frustrated with the game and make grandiose and melodramatic "I quit and your game is doomed!" posts. Then they assume that they have some sort of leverage to blackmail the development team into acceding to their every demand by pretending that they alone are keeping the game afloat.

Every year.

All the time.

Since at least 2005.

And yet, we're still here.

You guys are like failed Doomsday prophets.

[Karbuncle]

As i Explained at some point before...

Theres nothing we can do. Literally. This late in the game, SE is doing what they think will net them the most money. They're banking on the idea we're pretty much Addicted to FFXI like an Old Gambler (compliments of GG), They bank that we'll keep doing these events with the idea we'll eventually be rewarded.

They are, for all intents and purposes, Banking on the idea we're so addicted to FFXI We won't quit no matter how insane their new content is. No matter how ludicrous and luck based it is. No matter how badly implemented it is, or no matter how blatantly obvious it is that the content being released is designed to keep us enraged/doing it for long periods of time, based simply around dumb-luck systems, Random-Number-generators, and 1% Drop rates.

But the problem is, Even if we call them on this, and cancel our accounts for the bullshit? They'll probably just drop the game instead of putting in the effort to turn it around or actually listen to their customers.

Really am disappointed in the direction this game is taking. They're making all the same mistakes they made with FFXIV's release. Ignoring all feedback, and doing whatever the fuck they want. This company doesn't learn, and they seriously need to take a good hard look at the common factor between both failures.

We all know who it is.

Regardless, They're either too stupid or too proud to admit their mistakes.. Surprise surprise.. Whatever the outcome, I know Come March this account will be deactivated. Even if it does nothing, If this game is going to continue to be nothing but a broom-rape of ass-backwards content designed to be more work and frustration than Fun and Enjoyment? its time to move on with my life, Hell, Its time to move on with our lives.

There are plenty of new MMOs coming out that might actually be FUN to play, theres single player games that you'll enjoy for long periods to come. But really, Its about time to abandon ship. The Titanic is sinking, and The captain(hint: SE) just looks down at us, and throws us a Raft with a leak in it every couple days, just to keep us afloat long enough to not get hypothermia and die.

Done with the frustration of this game. Nothing about it is fun anymore. No longer asking the Evil Genie to grant me any more wishes. You all should follow suit if you're not having fun anymore. 9 years later and its clear they won't listen to us. The only glimmer of hope was Abyssea, Which they promptly decided to "fuck that" and move back to Old school time sinks with artificial challenge.

[Sparthos]

We should all knock on Tanaka's door and inform him of the 'good news' then.

But knowing Tanaka just getting to his front door involves rolling dice, no less than 3 JP midnights, a roulette wheel, a pair of scales, jumper cables, a ham sandwich and a Frisbee.

[Brolic]

found him

http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/sites/sport/img/5200_022406tatanka1.jpg

[Greatguardian]

Not gonna lie, at the moment I'm mainly still playing because most of my FFXI friends have such completely different tastes in games that none of us can pick a single new one to try. I like Star Trek Online, another friend likes TERA, another likes WoW, another likes SW:TOR. So instead of just playing one of those games with only one person, we all just reconvene on FFXI because it's the only online game we have in common.

Do you like Star Trek, Karb? D:

[Karbuncle]

Not gonna lie, at the moment I'm mainly still playing because most of my FFXI friends have such completely different tastes in games that none of us can pick a single new one to try. I like Star Trek Online, another friend likes TERA, another likes WoW, another likes SW:TOR. So instead of just playing one of those games with only one person, we all just reconvene on FFXI because it's the only online game we have in common.

Do you like Star Trek, Karb? D:

I Fking Love Star Trek. But haven't played the game yet. I followed the Beta, But never much got into it. I'll probably have to look into a bit more, See how it is.

[FrankReynolds]

I have been looking at star wars. Didn't even know there was a star trek MMO (I guess there probably is one for damn near every Sci-Fi franchise these days).

How is star trek?

[Greatguardian]

I Fking Love Star Trek. But haven't played the game yet. I followed the Beta, But never much got into it. I'll probably have to look into a bit more, See how it is.

It went f2p recently, which is one of the reasons I picked it up (broke as shittt). I'm a huge trekkie, so I enjoy the crap out of it. If you do check it out, hit me with a PM on BG and I can flist you. There's only one server (though there are multiple instances of each zone), so it's pretty easy to team up with people. There's a level sync option too, which is pretty handy especially since the EXP curve is fairly easy. I started a week and a half ago and I'm already level 36/50. Early on, you can get like 1 level per mission you complete.

I do recommend it, though. Tearing things up with my armed-to-the-teeth Defiant-class is so, so satisfying. There's a wealth of story-based missions out, a full calendar of special events (Every hour or 2-hour block of every day is something, be it a special PvE event or a bonus to all crafting, etc), and the game fully supports Player-made missions and gives you daily rewards for doing them and giving them reviews (can just be 1-5 star reviews, don't need to write if you don't want) so there's a pretty large heap of content and Treky story goodness to wade through.

Edit: Forgot to mention, but there's also faction-based PvP if you're into that. After you hit level 25 in the Federation, you can make a Klingon character. They get different missions (sharing a few, but with different objectives/plot/etc), different ships, and all that jazz.

[Tannlore]

I have been looking at star wars. Didn't even know there was a star trek MMO (I guess there probably is one for damn near every Sci-Fi franchise these days).

How is star trek?

You can go give it a shot. It is free to play so it gives you the chance to try it out.

[Tamoa]

Star Trek sounds interesting!

[Savlyn]

I don't even like Star Trek, but it sounds more fun than FFXI right now lol

[Karbuncle]

Star Trek sounds interesting!

I'm Already downloading it :D!

[Runespider]

I'm waiting for Tera personally but that star trek MMO does sound pretty cool.

[Greatguardian]

I really wish I had fraps right about now. Nothing is quite so satisfying as flying into a PvE instance, telling my Tactical officer to ready a full spread of photon torpedos, and watching 6 Gorn frigates simultaneously kerplode. I love being a DD.

[Karbuncle]

My games almost done downloading... Going to have to look up what the game is all about though....

[Greatguardian]

All about in what way? lol. (If this is too off-topic, we can take it to PMs. Don't want to get a thread locked mid-conversation).

[Karbuncle]

I'll send you a PM on BG

[Creelo]

Love how this thread turned into players talking about downloading other good games instead of playing FFXI lol

Hope SE sees it as an indicator that they need to step their shit up; although, they probably won't do anything.

[Karbuncle]

Nah, They'll just close it, Mumble something about Off-Topic

[Erics]

I might even download it >.>;

[Vold]

Did not know ST went to f2p... hmmm... kinda makes me feel like looking at SE and screaming "PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED!" cause like I've been milked of my resources and it's time to take them with me. Or something.

I guess I need to install lotr and star trek and give them a whirl. Free is free ;o

[Trisscar]

When people start leaving for F2P MMOs you know the game is in bad shape heheh.

[Michae]

I'm sticking around waiting for the next roadmap. Already canceled 1 of my 2 accounts and my roommate and nearly all of my friends have canceled thier accounts and I am just hanging onto my main with that "just in case" hope. If they dont announce a new expansion or content that sounds worth it I will cancel this account too.

Funny cause they are making leaps and bounds improving xiv (although it would have been hard to get any worse) and constantly fixing what they broke and now tons of content is trickling in but xi is getting stagnant. Idk why they cant think of something new and exciting to add to xi too instead of just reintroducing what we already have.

The reason I dont really play is cause Im tired of spamming nm to upgrade gear I already spent months and/or years gather items to upgrade. It used to be satisfying to swing your relic axe or summon garuda with ur nirvana but now that anyone who started last month can swing around empyerean (or even relic with the ease of getting the items/gil these days) its lost its luster.

I agree with the op, se needs to step up their game in xi, maybe Tanaka should have a coffee with Yoshi P to find out how to fix what was broken...oh wait he's the one that broke what Yoshi is fixing in the first place

[Runespider]

Hope SE sees it as an indicator that they need to step their shit up; although, they probably won't do anything.

Look at FFXIV, it wasn't long ago and it was the same guy in charge. He won't do a damn thing no matter how many leave, the only time something might change is if the bosses start to realise money is dropping fast. I'm amazed we haven't had a statement blaming the players for not likeing "new" content cause they just don't get the amazing design ideas or blaming western players for poisoning the JP players against it.

It's sad to see the exact failures of FFXIV repeating themselves here lol I wonder if they really do think that will send XI players to XIV? XD At least other companies will profit from their stupidity I guess, XIV sure won't.



Funny cause they are making leaps and bounds improving xiv (although it would have been hard to get any worse) and constantly fixing what they broke and now tons of content is trickling in but xi is getting stagnant. Idk why they cant think of something new and exciting to add to xi too instead of just reintroducing what we already have.

I think it's just a marketing plan honestly, FFXIV is his new baby and I wouldn't put it past them/him to be sabotaging XI to make us move over. Maybe I'm wrong but considering what a mess they are making of FFXI while building up XIV maybe not. I guess they just see us all as dumbasses that will all flock to the new game if they crap this one up enough, I doubt we are all the stupid sheep they think we are.

[Scuro]

SE, can you save all of us the trouble and just tell us one of two things...
1. You are not going to make new content, but rather refurbish old content, or the new content you will provide has no storyline and is a waste of time, thus letting us, your audience know. Just how much you don't care, and are really just stringing us along with hopes and dreams of new content, when in truth, you just want our money. So that we can fund your complete overhaul of FFXIV, even though more than half of your player base has given up on that game or has vowed to leave FF MMO's entirely if this game is to be closed.

2. You're already overhauling the whole f*cking game of FFXIV, why not make it so that FFXI players can transfer over their characters for the new frontier! Hell you are already implementing old jobs into the game now anyway after you realized how much of a f*ck up you made by making it entirely new and alien to FF fans. I mean you can even make certain job classes only available to those that have FFXI, to reward your veteran members of your community that have been putting up with the crap you call content over the past "Abyssea Years" and how far you have fallen from the Golden ages of ToAU and WotG....


Please just answer as one of these two answers so those of us that trust you will do the right thing can either.
A. Give up.
B. Fight the good fight for a worthy cause.

Make the right decision already cuz I'm one of those long time player base from the N.A release days thats pretty much given up on you. And you gotta earn my money pretty soon before I take it away.

[wish12oz]

how far you have fallen from the Golden ages of WotG....


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-B68htV-pAKI/TsMyRH1EcuI/AAAAAAAAAEU/g5wiuzbEnvM/s1600/double-facepalm.jpg

[Novowels]

when will people realize that SE is not going to make any new major storylines or expansion packs. They are essentially operating on a skeleton crew, because the vast majority of programmers have been reassigned to FFXIV in an attempt to salvage that huge debacle. people need to realize that games aren't made overnight, and take a large staff to do anything major.

The one major idea that is still being tossed around is some kind of port to Vita, for mobile gaming. But with FFXIV v2.0 in full redevelopment, i would say not to expect it.

[Vivik]

I'm also at the point with FFXI where it has become more doom and gloom than fun. Pretty much ruining my favorite job (cor) pretty soon, which pisses me off so bad. I might preorder Tera just to try the beta but I'm really holding out for Guild Wars 2. I hear you can get special items/tittles in GW2 if you get to a certain point in GW1 so I may play through that too.

[Francisco]

Jesus Christ. Delusions of grandeur much?

Yeah, I like that line from Final Fantasy IX too. Beatrix was so cool.

[Psxpert2011]

When people start leaving for F2P MMOs you know the game is in bad shape heheh.


I think it because there no more funds in their accounts =P

____________________

Me don't know where this thread is leading to but I'm not following it. I just know that old content is old and new content is new. Either stay stuck in the past or move forward. Enjoy the game world while it's up, be with friends, talk about life or w/e and help around beside thinking of yourself.

the moral of this mmorpg...?
I think SE will help solo'rs while continue to push the idea of self-denial when the game is about co-op and party systems. When the MMO was newly created to play with others, they meant it. FFxiv has beginner content from the very start and there's already mentors in place to help people from the start of the PS3 launch. I hope it goes well, while FFxi boost up moral with their newbies and fast-paced exp/jobs and story(or lack of) with the Abysea and new Legion content.

FFxi last stand...?
SE is making a closing statement that no more content is coming to FFxi. What we have here is boosters and power-packs of updates and convenient craze. The servers wont shut down until there's less than a % of players on a single server where SE might just hire a single GM or two(working part-time).

Company rules...?
Non-the-less, this is their business and they follow the corporate ethics and fundamentals of business which all businesses do. Unless you understand that, you'll be lost in uncertainty, making foolish assumptions and saying weird stuff.

[Michae]

2. You're already overhauling the whole f*cking game of FFXIV, why not make it so that FFXI players can transfer over their characters for the new frontier! Hell you are already implementing old jobs into the game now anyway after you realized how much of a f*ck up you made by making it entirely new and alien to FF fans. I mean you can even make certain job classes only available to those that have FFXI, to reward your veteran members of your community that have been putting up with the crap you call content over the past "Abyssea Years" and how far you have fallen from the Golden ages of ToAU and WotG....

I love it when ppl suggest this lmfao der de der

[Trisscar]

I love it when ppl suggest this lmfao der de der

I remember when FFxiv was first released the transfer of FFxi characters was confirmed by Square. But since FFxiv was originally intended to be different from the ground up it would be those characters in name and looks only. Even if they were to permit the transfer of FFxi characters with all their power, strength, gear and achievements (and they wouldn't) not many players would bite I would imagine.

I certainly wouldn't.

[Michae]

yeah they are 2 seperate games and just as u cannot transfer Yuna, Rydia or Locke into xi you cannot transfer ur xi char into xiv. Its just funny when ppl ask for it.

As for the rewards for vets...ive been playing the ff series since game 1 and i get nothing special when i start a new ff title either. Could u imagine how much free stuff id get if they did that, whew. Anyway they are giving 'vets' alot of stuff. Nearly all the story lines and rare/ex gear current xiv players are getting will become unattainable post v2. Magi-tek armor? Not for you, just for me mwahaha.

[Runespider]

Nearly all the story lines and rare/ex gear current xiv players are getting will become unattainable post v2. Magi-tek armor? Not for you, just for me mwahaha.

I doubt many XI players care either way, but gl with your special armor on a game nobody plays.

[Michae]

I doubt many XI players care either way, but gl with your special armor on a game nobody plays.

Always such a pessimist lol

[Cursed]

I pretty much decided to quit the second I saw the legion test stream.
not a drop in the ocean of what needs to be done with FFXI to keep subscribers paying.

For those that think SE doesn't care if you quit or not, you're very wrong. They are always seeking investments, but this year we've been contacted by them 7 times since the start of 2012. Last year they contacted us once before a game expo. Before that, we used to contact them and get ignored.
Yeah boat is sinking.

in the past I've posted some rants and gone on and on with my complaints of what is wrong with this game and the direction the dev team are taking it, I just don't care anymore. If I delete my character today or tomorrow, the sentimental value that it might have once have held will no longer be a factor. The event itself (deleting my character) will be far more casual than I would have imagined/assumed 3-5 years ago.

SE has just bleed every bit of love I had for this game out of me.
Whats funny is, I played every FF game from childhood up until FF12 and loved it. Since then, its just been 5 years of constant disappointment. Might have something to do with the fact that the old Square that gave us those games, and the staff, are no longer with SE for the most part.

[Aldersyde]

Always such a pessimist lol

I'd say he's realistic in this case. You only have one chance to make a good impression and SE blew it with FFXIV. Even when V2 comes out, I'd say a lot of people are going to see "FFXIV" and say to themselves "Do not want". It will always have the stigma of being the mmo that was so bad, it had to throw away its original scenario world to make a fresh start. A game so bad, not even making it free to play for an extended period prevented people from leaving in droves. A game that was described by its own corporate higher-ups as doing immense damage to the FF brand itself. People won't forget that. It will be an uphill battle to get those who experienced and quit within weeks to even come back to try it. A few mediocre or bad reviews will kill it. Do I think that it will get a niche audience? Of course it will because there's no accounting for some people's tastes. Do I think it's going to be the mmo that SE wanted so it could build on the success of FFXI? Hell no.

[Meyi]

I agree with Karbuncle.

Thanks for making a game I grew up loving. And thanks for destroying it before my eyes. It's cool if you don't want my money Square Enix. No hard feelings on my behalf.

[Tohihroyu]

Heh... I bet you all that this so called "The Last Stand" is the day they shut this game down "Thank you for playing! all your characters will be deleted & transferred to FFXIV"

I pretty much play to get what I can out of it, there's a few quests that have nice little storylines (Saga of the Serpents & Babban Ny Mheillea.) The Relic I'm *hoping* to get is a pipe dream, not cause of the bst pet TH "gimping" more so...not having the desire to spend 2 hours slashing, punching, stabbing & jabbing demons slowly to get "procs" :/ yes its "easier" but...its so boreing. I think the last "exciting moment" I had in game was going to Castle Zhval in the past the day it opened with a jp group, climbing all the way to the top, dodging or fighting agro, was just like my first Shadow lord battle but I didn't have to cast sneak/invis on lazy ppl on my drg/whm thus resting every few mins just myself ^^;

I used to think "Hey maybe they'll finally open up those other parts of Vana'diel, let us visit present Graberg & Vunkerl" but newp...they day that'd happen is the day it shuts down or at least kicks out all non Japanese players...thats probably why! they wont open those areas cause they don't want us filthy Gajin messing it up!

[hideka]

As i Explained at some point before...

Theres nothing we can do. Literally. This late in the game, SE is doing what they think will net them the most money. They're banking on the idea we're pretty much Addicted to FFXI like an Old Gambler (compliments of GG), They bank that we'll keep doing these events with the idea we'll eventually be rewarded.

They are, for all intents and purposes, Banking on the idea we're so addicted to FFXI We won't quit no matter how insane their new content is. No matter how ludicrous and luck based it is. No matter how badly implemented it is, or no matter how blatantly obvious it is that the content being released is designed to keep us enraged/doing it for long periods of time, based simply around dumb-luck systems, Random-Number-generators, and 1% Drop rates.

But the problem is, Even if we call them on this, and cancel our accounts for the bullshit? They'll probably just drop the game instead of putting in the effort to turn it around or actually listen to their customers.

Really am disappointed in the direction this game is taking. They're making all the same mistakes they made with FFXIV's release. Ignoring all feedback, and doing whatever the fuck they want. This company doesn't learn, and they seriously need to take a good hard look at the common factor between both failures.

We all know who it is.

Regardless, They're either too stupid or too proud to admit their mistakes.. Surprise surprise.. Whatever the outcome, I know Come March this account will be deactivated. Even if it does nothing, If this game is going to continue to be nothing but a broom-rape of ass-backwards content designed to be more work and frustration than Fun and Enjoyment? its time to move on with my life, Hell, Its time to move on with our lives.

There are plenty of new MMOs coming out that might actually be FUN to play, theres single player games that you'll enjoy for long periods to come. But really, Its about time to abandon ship. The Titanic is sinking, and The captain(hint: SE) just looks down at us, and throws us a Raft with a leak in it every couple days, just to keep us afloat long enough to not get hypothermia and die.

Done with the frustration of this game. Nothing about it is fun anymore. No longer asking the Evil Genie to grant me any more wishes. You all should follow suit if you're not having fun anymore. 9 years later and its clear they won't listen to us. The only glimmer of hope was Abyssea, Which they promptly decided to "fuck that" and move back to Old school time sinks with artificial challenge.

if people really wanted to make a point, they would write the stock holders of SE a letter entailing the dissatisfaction of the populace of this game. theyre the ones tanaka is out to please. not us. we get them up his butt, then things will change. im sure the stock holders wouldn't like the prospect of loosing the millions of dollars a year this game rakes in, in pure profits if we all decided to boycott this game. hell if we all cancled our accounts for ONE month, and notified the Majority stockholders of this, they would be ALL OVER them to get the issue fixed.

think of it this way... you are all complaining about a problem, to the source of the problem.... this is where you deviate from the chain of command, and go ABOVE the developers heads and piss THEIR bosses off. remember kids #$%^ rolls down hill, and thankfuly were off to the sides.

[Oscar71]

Please hurry up and quit. The more that quit, the more room on servers. Really people get over yourselves, if you are playing it for your own sake and not because you like "fantasy" and playing with other people, then by all means there is the door. I hate seeing threads like this. Ya'll acting like a bunch of 3 year old kids that just got told its time for you 15 min nap.

[Karbuncle]

Please hurry up and quit. The more that quit, the more room on servers. Really people get over yourselves, if you are playing it for your own sake and not because you like "fantasy" and playing with other people, then by all means there is the door. I hate seeing threads like this. Ya'll acting like a bunch of 3 year old kids that just got told its time for you 15 min nap.

First off, Allow me to thank you for voicing your opinion on this matter, Even though It was against the popular opinion of the thread. Now, As for my response.

Not many, if any, people in this thread are complaining because of the game pushing toward newer Team-oriented events, or complaining they can't play for their own sake. I for one, am not "full of myself" when i say Square is turning this game to hell. I started this game back because it was fun, and frankly, a Final Fantasy title, It was interesting.

Still, back then the game was a grind... But they turned it around about the time of abyssea, Now its back to Grinding and even worse content than pre-Abyssea (Looking at you Neo-Nyzul). I know its far-fetched, but there are ways to make Events Challenging and team oriented without relying on Random Number Generators to make artificial challenge.

Also, a Small tid-bit. your "3 year old" comparison is Irrelevant. Square Enix isn't a mother, They aren't a Father. Parents do have control over their children. However, Square Enix are not parents, They're a company. Companies need to listen to their customers. Companies who ignore of their customer sink and fail. Hint: FFXIV.

honestly, I hope you are not suggesting that us, as a customer, Should sit back and accept anything SE throws our way with a Smile on our face, thankful they're even paying attention to us anymore? No, I don't think we should.

The only thing left is Grinding Random-Dumb-luck Events with bad drop rates. In true Old-School FFXI Style, an Age the majority of us who got lives and grew up in the last 9 years, Were happy to leave behind.

Its obvious the Dev team is trying to keep us entertained, That i'm sure every one of us is thankful for. But they're being forced to work with such a small skeleton crew they can't really do anything but pump out rehashed content with Low Drop rates, or Dumb Luck involced (R.N.G Nyzul) to keep us busy until they can design the next event.

In a way, I really doubt its the Dev teams fault we keep getting stall-for-time Content with Stale battles, No progression at all, and relying Randomness instead of introducing a real challenge. They've got so few Devs because of Final Failure XIV Draining everything.

So to End, I Can't really Blame the Dev team for this, I'm sure they're just doing the best they can with the time they have. But that doesn't mean we should sit here and accept everything we're given. These forums exist for the purpose of giving feedback. Understanding and taking to heart that feedback is what Square needs to do. Obviously, Not everyone is correct, not all complaints are relevant. But a lot of complaints, in this thread and many others, are very valid concerns.

So please, Learn to recognize the difference between crying over spilled milk, and justified complaints about the direction a company is taking. Its not that we're(I'm) against team oriented events, Its that, Those of us who are playing because we like the "Fantasy" part of the game are complaining because there's no Fantasy left, any hint of fun is drained away when you open the voidwatch chest to find you're now 0/300 on something, And your reward is 4k worth of synth mats.

[Oscar71]

Haha, okay you made your point Karbuncle. There is a difference though between feedback and the blame game. Customers do have a right to voice what they want and how they want, but I'm sorry, its irritating to see these threads over and over.

[Karbuncle]

Haha, okay you made your point Karbuncle. There is a difference though between feedback and the blame game. Customers do have a right to voice what they want and how they want, but I'm sorry, its irritating to see these threads over and over.

I admit after about the 30th one I get a little annoyed too. So don't worry.

i just miss when i enjoyed this game. But truthfully, thats because of many reasons... one, I've grown up in the last ~8 years or so... And also because of the direction the game is taking. Me, and a lot of us, Just really don't have the time or energy to put up with these ludicrous trials.

So its not really all the Devs fault. Hell, I'm sure almost none of it is the devs fault. Not their fault they're basically a skeleton crew forced to work with little/no support on the game.

[Cursed]

Please hurry up and quit. The more that quit, the more room on servers. Really people get over yourselves, if you are playing it for your own sake and not because you like "fantasy" and playing with other people, then by all means there is the door. I hate seeing threads like this. Ya'll acting like a bunch of 3 year old kids that just got told its time for you 15 min nap.

I fail to see any logic or point in this post.
1."The faster people quit the more room there is on the server"
There's already PLENTY of room on all servers. Perhaps you're new or you just don't have many friends. But those of us who's money funded this game over the last decade have seen numbers dwindle rapidly in the past 1-2 years. Our friends have quit, our servers no longer exist, and as either a result or as was "intended" the resources and human capital that caters to FFXI and its development have decreased as well.
The more friends that quit the more the social pull and aspects of this game suffer.
So in reality, what should be said is "the faster you quit the more server space is wasted the less resources will be used to cater to this game's player base or lack of. Which means, you too, YES YOU, will suffer in the immediate future. Even if you end up playing by yourself, it will be on a free to play server where the only friends you would have are NPCs.

2. "if you are playing it for your own sake and not because you like "fantasy" and playing with other people, then by all means there is the door"
See point 1. When 1 friend quits, it often leads to another person at least taking a step back and playing less. Many of us have lost the friends we once used to do things with. When they are gone, we often look for alternative games to play together. At the moment, there is an abundance of them, and even more coming out. FF14 is actually not even on the list. This also causes a chain reaction. Other people who were not looking to quit, now do consider quiting as a few of their friends have set up shop on another MMO. The movement and trend is to leave FFXI, and it is accelerating.

From your statement you imply that you play for the social aspects and then go and contradict yourself by asserting that if people leave its more server space for you.

Take some time to think things over the next time you post.

If you hate seeing these posts, then "there's the door, don't let hit you on the backside when you leave". No one is forcing you to read things you "hate". And unless you like inflicting suffering on yourself, then just don't read these posts.
If you do or do not like them has nothing to do with if they are valid or not.
Gravity sucks, step off a building and it will kick your ass. you might hate being limited to this physical fact, but that doesn't invalidate it any less.

And if you hate seeing these posts, you should blame SE as they are the custodians of their player base's interest and are utterly shitting on us.

[FrankReynolds]

if people really wanted to make a point, they would write the stock holders of SE a letter entailing the dissatisfaction of the populace of this game. theyre the ones tanaka is out to please. not us. we get them up his butt, then things will change. im sure the stock holders wouldn't like the prospect of loosing the millions of dollars a year this game rakes in, in pure profits if we all decided to boycott this game. hell if we all cancled our accounts for ONE month, and notified the Majority stockholders of this, they would be ALL OVER them to get the issue fixed.

think of it this way... you are all complaining about a problem, to the source of the problem.... this is where you deviate from the chain of command, and go ABOVE the developers heads and piss THEIR bosses off. remember kids #$%^ rolls down hill, and thankfuly were off to the sides.

You could always try change.org, but I doubt it would muster the signatures required to get anyone at SE to care. Most dissatisfied customers don't bother telling the vendor. They just stop using the product. Most people probably don't even bother to read these forums (if they read any forums at all), so it would be extremely difficult to even make people aware that such a letter / petition existed. And then you would have to word your letter / petition in a diplomatic and sincere enough manner to warrant people getting on board with it once they read it.

But hey, it couldn't hurt to try.

[darkhorror]

yeah I expect this will be my last month, I had waited to see this update and give legion a try but it didn't even come out. Looks like a total crap update with not much else to look forward to. I have logged on like 2 times this month. I have very little desire to play. I may come back in a few months if it looks like there is some worthwhile content again. But right now not so much... Plus it doesn't look like there is much coming to look forward to.

[Tohihroyu]

Those of us who are playing because we like the "Fantasy" part of the game are complaining because there's no Fantasy left, any hint of fun is drained away when you open the voidwatch chest to find you're now 0/300 on something, And your reward is 4k worth of synth mats.

Why I'll never bother with Voidwatch, Legion or any "new" event...I can do the same shit with better results solo leveling jobs & finding Random NM's. (and make more gil possibly lol)

And that RMT rule the game again but this time SE is doing absolutely nothing about it, yeah go on & laugh at me for not supporting or enabling RMT like a lot seem to do. I have sent in so many STF reports about this HUGE RMT or gil buyer on my server (or they are both!) and they are still there buying 100s of Ocelomeh Headpiece's ether for the ring of RMT he works with or just to raise the cost along with buy surplus of other items that cost over a mil. Also raises prices of Red Curry Buns & Dragon Meat.

No I am not "butthurt" its just fucking pathetic that RMT are allowed to play with absolutely no trouble at all, not all RMT are little Chinese guys in a sweatshop many are actually NA/EU cause they can't get a real job (or rather a job that has them leave their Mommy's basement) And I know I'll be reamed for this (and talked shit about on BG) but: I wish Starcade was back, least his rants in Part Jeuno would possibly get a GMs attention, he was right about a lot of things; This game going to hell, RMT ruleing, RMT, botters & other cheaters not getting bans let alone warnings...hell my old signature saying I don't play using bots, windower or other 3PP was "against the rules" but most wont have to worry I highly doubt he'd return now not even just to go in game & see how sad it is, I think he even moved on from this games BS all together, blogs not updated & twitter mostly about WWE, & other shows.

[Teraniku]

2. You're already overhauling the whole f*cking game of FFXIV, why not make it so that FFXI players can transfer over their characters for the new frontier! Hell you are already implementing old jobs into the game now anyway after you realized how much of a f*ck up you made by making it entirely new and alien to FF fans. I mean you can even make certain job classes only available to those that have FFXI, to reward your veteran members of your community that have been putting up with the crap you call content over the past "Abyssea Years" and how far you have fallen from the Golden ages of ToAU and WotG....



WotG was Golden Age? Storyline(s) were great and campaign was interesting, but to me, The zone rehash was the beginning of the Downward Spiral for this game, Abyssea was interesting but they dropped the ball on the entry conditions. Abyssea was the switch from where finishing the story was more important, to where getting the gear was more important. I still enjoy the game currently but I totally understand where everyone who posts their current frustrations with this development team is coming from. I only have A Shantotto's Ascension to finish, then I will have all the story arcs done. I will then evaluate whether I'm staying, when the new roadmap comes out.

[DrStrangelove]

if people really wanted to make a point, they would write the stock holders of SE a letter entailing the dissatisfaction of the populace of this game. theyre the ones tanaka is out to please. not us. we get them up his butt, then things will change. im sure the stock holders wouldn't like the prospect of loosing the millions of dollars a year this game rakes in, in pure profits if we all decided to boycott this game. hell if we all cancled our accounts for ONE month, and notified the Majority stockholders of this, they would be ALL OVER them to get the issue fixed.

think of it this way... you are all complaining about a problem, to the source of the problem.... this is where you deviate from the chain of command, and go ABOVE the developers heads and piss THEIR bosses off. remember kids #$%^ rolls down hill, and thankfuly were off to the sides.

You can't write stockholders a letter. They are private citizens and their ownership is not public.

Also, stockholders are not concerned with this game , anymore than McDonalds stockholders are concerned with McNuggets. They are concerned with the entire company not one product. We are entitled to our opinion about this, but you have to show them that this affects the whole company, not one game.

IF you want to go this route, write the Board of Directors, who are in fact the people the CEO reports to, or better yet, write to the CEO. Their names are public knowledge and you can mail them care of Square Enix in Japan.

[Runespider]

Yoichi Wada was the one that took the action to attempt to change the fortunes of FFXIV I think?, as in the reshuffle of team leaders.

[Ravenmore]

You can't write stockholders a letter. They are private citizens and their ownership is not public.

Also, stockholders are not concerned with this game , anymore than McDonalds stockholders are concerned with McNuggets. They are concerned with the entire company not one product. We are entitled to our opinion about this, but you have to show them that this affects the whole company, not one game.

IF you want to go this route, write the Board of Directors, who are in fact the people the CEO reports to, or better yet, write to the CEO. Their names are public knowledge and you can mail them care of Square Enix in Japan.

Thing is one product can effect a whole company, aka look how much damage FF14 did to them. You don't have to be a gamer to see where the cash cows are and were the drains are.

[Malamasala]

IF you want to go this route, write the Board of Directors, who are in fact the people the CEO reports to, or better yet, write to the CEO. Their names are public knowledge and you can mail them care of Square Enix in Japan.

Tempting...

[Psxpert2011]

When people start leaving for F2P MMOs you know the game is in bad shape heheh.


found him

http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/sites/sport/img/5200_022406tatanka1.jpg

Tanka AF FTW!!

[Dazusu]

Nyzul isle revamped (old content) that are so random that we have to pray we get a certain floor. Again you disappoint us.

I am very probably the only one, but I am happy that there is finally an event where stuff isn't handed to you just because you are present. I like the idea of not everyone getting the gear immediately after release and it trickling slowly into the system. Kind of like Salvage when it was first released.

That's how FFXI should be - and how it always was.

Another thing you need to keep in mind is that the whole Abyssea area was 'filler' content. No one at all seems to realise this. The end-game content is going to be at 99 as it was at 75 because its, and I'll bold this for effect, End Game.

Abyssea was great transition content. It aided us in progression to 95~, quick gear, fast leveling. Now the level 99 content arrives, and people are surprised at the mahoosive amounts of items needed to finish off Empyreans, Relics and Mythics to their ultimate state (glowy effect, etc). It's meant to take time and give you a long distance goal.

Nyzul is no different. I hope Salvage is the same too.



FFxi last stand...?
SE is making a closing statement that no more content is coming to FFxi.

Really? That's what you get out of an event name? SE have always publicly maintained that (and I'm paraphrasing), "While people are playing the game, we will continue to make content".

As far as I know, people are still playing. Infact, my entire Linkshell just resubscribed with the arrival of Lv.99, and I'm sure we're not the only ones. By your conclusion we could have called the Proamthia mission "The Last Verse" the end of the game too. There's no more content coming. That's their analogistic statement, right?

Such a stupid thing to claim.

When SE are done adding content, they'll inform us. I'm sure of that.


I remember when FFxiv was first released the transfer of FFxi characters was confirmed by Square.

Source?

I think you'll find no such thing was ever confirmed, and I'm sure it wasn't even claimed or implied. They said they wouldn't/couldn't do that technical problems were cited as one reason, and it being a completely different game was another. The furthest they said they would go is to let you reserve your FFXI character name.

Roll on FF11-2, I'd play that shit.

[Ravenmore]

I am very probably the only one, but I am happy that there is finally an event where stuff isn't handed to you just because you are present. I like the idea of not everyone getting the gear immediately after release and it trickling slowly into the system. Kind of like Salvage when it was first released.

That's how FFXI should be - and how it always was.

Another thing you need to keep in mind is that the whole Abyssea area was 'filler' content. No one at all seems to realise this. The end-game content is going to be at 99 as it was at 75 because its, and I'll bold this for effect, End Game.

Abyssea was great transition content. It aided us in progression to 95~, quick gear, fast leveling. Now the level 99 content arrives, and people are surprised at the mahoosive amounts of items needed to finish off Empyreans, Relics and Mythics to their ultimate state (glowy effect, etc). It's meant to take time and give you a long distance goal.

Nyzul is no different. I hope Salvage is the same too.

So to you getting bent over by the RNG is bettter then real content. Thats what thier latest pile is and no amount of skill will help you when it is total random. Oh and everything from here on out is clear to be filler content till 2.0 hits. Rehash and reused crap they manage to take one of the best events and ruin it.

[Dazusu]

For once I agree with you. They are rehashing classic events instead of giving us new content. They think it will wash - and it wont as a trickle of players continue to quit.

However, drops have always been a case of random numbers. Even when the NMs were available to smack around. This is just working the other way around. Kill an NM, you're guaranteed to get a drop - but getting to the NM is the RNG part, instead of kill a readily available NM and *maybe* (RNG) get a drop.

What you need to understand is that in MMOs there has to be an artificial wall of some sort, else you'd kill all content once or twice - get all the best drops and ultimately stop doing anything in game other than standing around with your amazing gear in a town until you call it quits. What gives an MMO life is random numbers. SE have proved time and time again they struggle with adding genuinely difficult content that's hard to complete but not impossible - so they get around it by towering artificial walls. It works well for this game, and did for many years - until Abyssea hit.

The big problem here is Abyssea (filler) gave people a taste of easy gear. Now they take it away and out come the tantrums.

So no, RNG is not better than real challenging content with a learning curve. On the other hand - RNG is better than Abyssea-like content. Just my opinion.

[Karbuncle]

What you need to understand is that in MMOs there has to be an artificial wall of some sort, else you'd kill all content once or twice - get all the best drops and ultimately stop doing anything in game other than standing around with your amazing gear in a town until you call it quits.

Not entirely true.

They could make a "Progression" system. Those NMS could be a part of a point system, Like legion will be... Or einherjar was, Or Assault was. They could keep the Drops on some of these floors, But have a point system in place to purchase some armor if you haven't gotten it from going up the floors.

it doesn't need to be Handed to us, But Something like a Point system, Where you could over time collect points from success or failed runs to get High Floor Armor, Something Like...

Floor 100 Armor = 200,000 Points
Floor 80 Armor = 100,000 points
Floor 60 Armor = 50,000 Points

Could even throw in Alexandrite here, Or some other Unique Stuff for Nyzul, Maybe more "Assault" Armor? Or Assault Weaponry? Every Floor you clear would net you 50 points, So if you cleared 10 floors, You'd get 500 points, Clear 50 Floors? 2,500 Points. Clear 100 floors? 5k points.

You could also have an Item purchasable with these points(maybe 10,000 points) that, When used on the Lamp, for that 1 run, It increases your ??? Jump Yield from 3 to 9, to 5 to 12. increasing your odds for Hitting a higher floor.

Bosses Would be worth an extra 100 points. Now, There could also be an NPC who would give you points for Unwanted Nyzul Armor....

NQ Armor is worth 1,000 Points,
HQ1 Armor is worth 2,000 points,
HQ2 Armor is worth 4,000 points,
HQ3 Armor is worth 10,000 Points,

This way, The Top floor armor is still really hard to go. You'd need to clear 4,000 Floors to have enough points for a top Floor armor. This keeps people doing it, Cause you know, You probably want full sets, or multiple pieces, but also gives them a Sense of PROGRESSION.

Allowing you to buy floor 60 and 80 Armor would be like a Short Term goal, something you could settle on, something even casuals could progressively work on.

And it gives a use to the Shitty Armor (Floor 20, 40, 60, etc), Which can be turned in for bonus points. And it still encourages doing boss floors, Since that Armor is worth significantly more.

So even if you fail to get floor 60, 80, or 100, You still have a sense of progression, something to keep you going, Something to give you a feeling that, even if you dont meet your goal, You're working toward an even higher goal.

Every problem SE Has is that there is no actual progression. You basically start from ground 0 every time. The best system SE ever came up with are all from ToAU. Assaults, Einherjar... Why are they so afraid to go back to systems like that? Systems that have both Rare drop-RNG Crap, and Progressive Builds toward something useful.

I thought of this system in a matter of 10 minutes, And it would still be 10x more enjoyable than 99% of the content introduced by SE in the last two years, offer more progression, Keep people interested for a long period, and keep people happy because they would be able to work toward improvements and have a sense of progression with the system.

-- But Honestly, The Point of this is simply that: It doesn't need to be handed to us, That point systems can be really long journeys, keeping armor rare, but appeal to peoples want of progression, the feeling of progression would alleviate 99% of the bitching.

We don't care if Armor is hard to get, If its really rare, but giving everyone a means of obtaining it by some method other than dumb luck is what we all want. Reward hard work and dedication, not the roll of a dice and to the luckiest man go the spoils. Give us progression damnit!

Give us progression!

[Dazusu]

Or einherjar was

Once every 3 days. Artificial wall.


Or Assault was.

As many as you have tags available. Artificial wall.

Your ideas for a point system are good, but don't think that the two examples you gave were free of artificial blocks. MMOs have to limit progression to a certain point, and almost every bit of content in the game is stuffed with said blocks. All except Abyssea (assuming you know how to farm time).

That's my original point. People were generally fine with it until Abyssea, now they've had a taste of XI without the blocks, etc etc

Other than that, I agree with a lot of your points. Progression, points, feeling of accomplishment all work. Rehashing old content doesn't give that, though.

[Kimble]

I don't mind a wait time to do an event if it means I can actually make progress when I do the event.

Oh look! new Nyzul isle has a time wait AND a RNG factor that makes it so you cant even farm the floors you want! Gee golly! I sure do love getting double stuffed in the ass with no lube!

[Runespider]

For once I agree with you. They are rehashing classic events instead of giving us new content. They think it will wash - and it wont as a trickle of players continue to quit.

Like it or not Abyssea did change the playerbase and it can't be undone, trying to force them to change to this new punishing system is going to simply make them quit...most of us are older and wiser to this crap now. They either have to understand that we have changed and alter their design ideas into something better (doesn't have to be abyssea but it damn well has to be better than the insulting RNG, massive time sink and unimaginative crap they are shoveling right now) or they will continue to bleed players. The number of players this game has is dropping quite quickly, do a sea all and compare it to last year or during Abyssea.

As Karbuncle said, what they should be doing is making lower tier items drops (for that yay dropz! feeling) to lot on and the best gear should be obtained via points from an NPC from your effort doing it, if they keep the love affair with RNG they are just turning everyone off. People need to think their time isn't wasted and the systems they employ right now do just that.

It was easier to make us do stupid crap in the past because we were all younger and a lot more addicted, it's not going to work so well now, as shown by the hilarious boycotting of the new event they just added. "hmm it's shit, i think I won't do it at all", that will lead to more boredom and that makes people stop paying and look elsewhere (and no not to lolFFXIV, if they are banking on that they are in for a nasty suprise).

[Dazusu]

People need to think their time isn't wasted

For me it's about the journey, not the destination. Like I said though, I agree that a point system is a good direction to go in. My comparison was between Abyssea-like content or Random Number influenced content. I would prefer the latter.

You may be older and wiser, but there are a lot of people that enjoy that type of content who are also just as wise. But heaven forbid that some people out there like something that you don't. How very dare they. Let's lock them up and throw away the key.

[Kimble]

You're going to be very hard press to find others who enjoy new Nyzul Isle.

If you love RNG, im sure you'd love to play Russian roulette.

[Runespider]

For me it's about the journey, not the destination. Like I said though, I agree that a point system is a good direction to go in. My comparison was between Abyssea-like content or Random Number influenced content. I would prefer the latter.

You may be older and wiser, but there are a lot of people that enjoy that type of content who are also just as wise. But heaven forbid that some people out there like something that you don't. How very dare they. Let's lock them up and throw away the key.

Didn't you just return from WoW? It's a lot easier to swallow the sheer love affair they have with randomness (put in purely to extend the event in the crappiest way possible) if you play other MMOs and don't have to put up with it to this extent, for those of us that see XI as our main or only MMO it's not quite so nice.

I recently spent 6-7 months doing Voidwatch and 99% of it was not only totally unrewarding but I was no closer to my goal than the person that just started (I saw people that just started countless times that got the drops I was after, me being experienced and good at it did nothing to aid me being rewarded), the journey speel is cool for the first month or two when you are enjoying it...then it's mindless grind on content you can do while sleeping and there is no fun, skill or enjoyment in it...just the mad rush to check the loot and be dissapointed at the end cause you rolled a 1. Didn't matter how well you did the event, how quickly or flawlessly you killed it, you still rolled a 1. When you did get your reward you were no better than the aurore pink power ranger thief that died 20 times and lucked out and going 1/1 while other people killed it for them.

So yeah, forgive me mr just got back from wow and RNG is cool but nah not really, I think most of us want something better. When you get bored and run off to wow again we will still be here plugging away at the horrible design ideas you cheered on a few months earlier but no longer have to put up with.

[Disifer]

For me it's about the journey, not the destination. Like I said though, I agree that a point system is a good direction to go in. My comparison was between Abyssea-like content or Random Number influenced content. I would prefer the latter.

You may be older and wiser, but there are a lot of people that enjoy that type of content who are also just as wise. But heaven forbid that some people out there like something that you don't. How very dare they. Let's lock them up and throw away the key.

Any content where I don't have to sit in a LS, gather tons of points, get "rank 1" and still ask the LS Leader when ebody drops "Can i haz it masta?" just to be told not yet Toby, get in the back of the Nidhogg express is a great event to me. Abyssea opened it up for some of us players who were in college when we started and now we are married and have jobs or own business'. I cannot fathom coming on here everyday so help some snot nosed prick to get his elitist gear while I have to work 8-12 hours a day, 6-7 days a week to keep my business afloat and growing.

The VW loot system sucks and the need to progress upwards to advance your stone is painful to me and many others but it is what it is. It's great for the person who feels that an item as good as some of the bodies should take that long to get, and more power to them, I couldn't see myself mind-numbingly fighting the same boss over and over and tossing a prayer up to whatever you pray to, in order to make progress in this game. Einherjar's point system for rewards revolutionized how drop systems should work. You could still farm as a normal LS and use a points system, and hand out ebodies and the such while people still got rewarded every couple weeks with a new ring, a new neck or back piece, animator +1 for any pups out there, ect...

I don't mind the abyssea burning for weapons and such, at one point i really did hate it, but when you get ass-slammed by all the other "new content" that they are releasing, you realize that ochain, that af3, those Trial of the Magian Weapons,
and other things where you don't have to shout for people (hate it) and can do it with the remaining 2-6 "friends" you have left who haven't quit yet is where i have the most enjoyment.

Made me feel like I accomplished something in this game whereas from 2004-2011 my character felt like an incomplete project of anything I wanted to get done on it. The original Abyssea hating grew from the Empyreal Weapons and the fact that after 3 months of scars being released, most emp weaps shit right on relic weaps. People who spent years dealing with LS's, about 200 people for a 30 man LS cause people came and went like crazy, bought all their currency at high prices, sat in jeuno for months and goldsmith'd items into oblivion to make money to buy currency when they weren't and dynamis, and for what? To have a weapon which took 4 days to 2 weeks to complete and just mopped the floor with the relic version. After that, people became to nitpick small things while still doing the content gladly, enjoying the spoils and making progression towards something while they sat there and visibly said "i dont like it, meh"

Not saying it's the best thing since sliced bread. The elite players still have their VW gear, the good/normal players have all their af3+2 done and an emp or two, and the noobs and people you hate are still stuck in perle/pink gear, such as the 99 Cor in full pink with 90 armageddon i saw running around soloing in dynamis. Trust me we still have tiers, and i'm fine looking upwards still, while those at the top find it hard to see the person below them, isn't a mile like before. And thats all thanks to those 3 thrown together, god mode expansions with crap proc's and 3 job system we hate to name, abyssea.

[Dazusu]

...

I would have read your opinions and thoughts, but you opened with the HNM / Real Life card when this thread/discussion has nothing to do with it, so everything after that was invalid to me.


Didn't you just return from WoW?

Yes, played WoW for 9 months because Abyssea got stale. However, FFXI is still my first MMO, and my main MMO. It was the announcement of Legion which prompted my return. Understand that I'm not asking for the return of the HNM scene - I'm asking for long term goals and difficult challenges. Abyssea for me didn't provide that. The new Nyzul isle is fun, I personally enjoy it. You don't, and that' fine. I'm not going to try convince you to love it.

As I've said in the past on the forums, I hope they continue to add more content like Abyssea, and stuff that people can do without massive commitments. I also hope they continue to add the stupidly hard stuff... but a lot of people (like Mr I hate HNM because RL Card above) want it one way or the other and that's the problem. Everyone has an opinion, but groups of players tend to band together and proclaim that theirs is more valid than anyone else's - because their opinion is beneficial to them.

[Disifer]

I would have read your opinions and thoughts, but you opened with the HNM / Real Life card when this thread/discussion has nothing to do with it, so everything after that was invalid to me.

The point of the post had nothing to do with hnm camping and briefly touched upon it. The point is the playerbase is 8-9 years old in most cases. Say you started at 13, now you are 20. Most of us played since 17-25 meaning 26-35 year old player base now. Those same people who populate your game are older and don't have time to spend 6+ hours a day farming up someone else's shit. Point is people have jobs, careers, and families now, most of us who played this game hardcore since its inception. Can't create time consuming, nonrewarding content, and expect to keep that same player base. maybe 6-7 years ago when this game was fairly new, not when it is 9 years old and there is no reason to have a new influx of players to come in with all the new mmo's out with better graphics, battle systems, and reward systems. Sorry is that better cupcake? Guess you can't mention real life being a motivation for making obtainable, rewardable content for the average person.

Edit:And i never hated camping HNM, i hated dealing with people within a LS who if you weren't with the "click" then no matter what the points system or whathave you are, they will still find an excuse to change the rules momentarily to benefit those within the click. Trust me, if they still popped on 21-24 hour timer, i'd be there on bst or in a small group of friends camping it for the reward of completing something, even as small of an achievment as it is. I don't mind the harder content. But if your idea of harder content is a RNG, then you're view of what is "hard" is a lot different than the others i talk to. I think PW and AV was hard, even after they were figured out to a degree, but you still had a sense of achievement because of the camping of sea NM's for AV or the sheer amount of zeni required at the time to even get a PW pop, considering the drop rates off t4 znm.

[Karbuncle]

Once every 3 days. Artificial wall.



As many as you have tags available. Artificial wall.

Your ideas for a point system are good, but don't think that the two examples you gave were free of artificial blocks. MMOs have to limit progression to a certain point, and almost every bit of content in the game is stuffed with said blocks. All except Abyssea (assuming you know how to farm time).

That's my original point. People were generally fine with it until Abyssea, now they've had a taste of XI without the blocks, etc etc

Other than that, I agree with a lot of your points. Progression, points, feeling of accomplishment all work. Rehashing old content doesn't give that, though.

Everything has some Artificial Walls. It has too in an MMO. When the Artificial Walls consist of Nothing but Random Number Generator - Thats where the problem is.

No one would complain about 1 Tag a day if that 1 Tag could give you meaningful progress in something even if you didn't hit floor 80, or 100.

Just like in Einherjar and Assault. Assault, You had to win, But Even if you didn't get the ??? Item you wanted, You got Assault points for items that were (back then) good.

Or Einherjar, Which now, Offer you partial rewards in the battlefield, and Points on win you could turn in for what was (At the time) Some pretty decent items.

So while each had an Artificial Wall Dependent on Day, Or Assault Points, That wall wasn't a Random Number Generator, Which is what people are bitching about. (now each of those events did have 1 form of Random Number generator or so... But they also had the combo of Progression).

You see, The player base doesn't completely want the removal of R.N.G, Cause its impossible unless drops were 100%, We just want Progression along side it.

[Dreamin]

I think either Dazusu is extremely lucky with VW drop or he really hasn't spent the kind of time with VW yet. Because after going 0/300+ on Pil and Qilin and you see pink/white folks that gets the ra/ex body under 1/10, it would just absolutely drive you off the wall and there's no way in hell you would LIKE this random drop BS at all.

Same thing for the Neo Nyzul Isle. Right now it is near impossible for ANYONE to make it up to floor 100 on any consistency regardless of how GOOD (skill) your group are. 90s on 11 floor in a row with 9 floor jump every single time is just stupidly impossible to reach (yes, it's mathematically possible but realistically impossible). So if you enjoy that crap, good for you but dont try to tell the rest of us that it is an acceptable event because it is IMPOSSIBLE to just reach 100.

I've posted elsewhere, challenging the DEV to just post an image where a group of DEV without using any hacks, backdoors or anything else that is currently NOT KNOWN to the userbase yet is EVEN just on the 100th floor. They can just show that they can even get there, whether or not they even have the TIME to fight the final boss is not necessary. I will STFU if they can show that this is possible at all and will even stop my weekly posting in the BST thread.

Until then, SE, fix this BS Random Generator based event/drop.

[Dazusu]

Stuff.

In large, agree. Just don't make the challenges 'easy'


I think either Dazusu is extremely lucky with VW drop or he really hasn't spent the kind of time with VW yet.

Done one VW fight the day it was released before I started playing WoW. No doubt I'll hate VW loot system when I get stuck into it. From what I've heard, the random drop system to each person sounds crap, is it an improvement on the pool system? Not sure, would have to experience it first. Though my argument isn't really about drops. It boils down to wanting a challenge that has the life to go the distance. 3 month relics, 3 day Empyreans and I'm assuming soon to be 3 month Mythics mean that there is no epic goal to work towards as there was in the past (Except for maybe 99 trials).

(Again I'm not asking for all content to be this way, perhaps <5% of it.)

[Kimble]

No one said they wanted content to be easy. They said they don't want to be at the mercy of RNG.

[Dreamin]

Too late, Camate has confirmed that Floor 100 is indeed LUCK driven. Here's praying that my LUCK with this is better than my Toci (0/300+).

[Runespider]

Too late, Camate has confirmed that Floor 100 is indeed LUCK driven. Here's praying that my LUCK with this is better than my Toci (0/300+).

You did VW and hated it because of the horrible luck factor, they add an event that's far worse and you are going to do it and hope you get lucky? Damn they love players like you, you will take anything they shovel on your face.

[Dreamin]

Well, I'm unlucky but I also have 2 others who are usually 'lucky' person in my set. So I'm just going to make them be the person to hit the '???' every single time and pray for the best.

But seriously, as most of us who has played this game in a long time knows, we're still playing this because we have a group of friends that enjoy each other's company and we work well together and can get stuff done in small group setting. So it's either this or just toss in the subscription but I'm not quite there yet...it's close but just not there yet.

[Oscar71]

The point of the post had nothing to do with hnm camping and briefly touched upon it. The point is the playerbase is 8-9 years old in most cases. Say you started at 13, now you are 20. Most of us played since 17-25 meaning 26-35 year old player base now. Those same people who populate your game are older and don't have time to spend 6+ hours a day farming up someone else's shit. Point is people have jobs, careers, and families now, most of us who played this game hardcore since its inception. Can't create time consuming, nonrewarding content, and expect to keep that same player base. maybe 6-7 years ago when this game was fairly new, not when it is 9 years old and there is no reason to have a new influx of players to come in with all the new mmo's out with better graphics, battle systems, and reward systems. Sorry is that better cupcake? Guess you can't mention real life being a motivation for making obtainable, rewardable content for the average person.

Thank you for saying this!

[Eurell]

It boils down to wanting a challenge that has the life to go the distance. 3 month relics, 3 day Empyreans and I'm assuming soon to be 3 month Mythics mean that there is no epic goal to work towards as there was in the past (Except for maybe 99 trials).

(Again I'm not asking for all content to be this way, perhaps <5% of it.)


Didnt get to read the entire thread so maybe I'm missing something, but 3 month mythics? Doing the assaults alone is over 3 months, nvm building up the Nyzul tokens which you cant do if you're working on assaults. Even if they completely did away with the alexandrite part of the quest a mythic would still take a good long time.

[Unctgtg]

Wonder if SE even bothered.

[Greatguardian]

They're probably still trying to get ahold of Tanka in order to send the letter to him. Pro Wrestlers can be notoriously hard to get ahold of, what with all the fan mail and all.

[SpankWustler]

The Tanka of southern China are hopping off their boats and composing their replies in the form of tanka poetry.

Since the form is unfamiliar to them, it might take a while.

[Scuro]

I love how all the retard trolls took the whole "WotG Golden Age" as the only thing I said.... I clearly said ToAU as well, which was the golden age of this game, arguably WotG more of the Silver Age. WotG was good content before Abyssea hit, and was a challenge before the level jacks, also it made a more consistent besieged, so for all of you that are bashing on it, it was probably the best story line we've had in the game, so yes... I think it is tagged with ToAU for Golden Age. Since ToAU was great for game play, but WotG takes it for story line. Which probably most of you trolls don't even know about because your too busy Emperyean-jerking off in Abyssea.

And to the smackt@rd that said "These are two different games, so why would they transfer over the characters?" Oh idk.... cuz now they realized just how much they f*cked up by not including job classes that are consistent with the video game series, and are now integrating those jobs. They also kept the same races with barely any adjustment, so ummmm duuuurrrr its pretty obvious how its possible. And since they are remaking the new game, into a newer game, you might as well do it right. Cuz they've already lost a great deal of subscribers in neglecting FFXI and FFXIV is a wet glob of toilet paper not even suitable to wipe one's.... you get the idea.

[Luvbunny]

Yeah, if they are going to kill FFXI anyway, which it seems from their recent actions, this seems very possible. Then they should let current users transfer to the FF14 Vers 2.0. Though if they are actually smart and have a great business sense, they should just go ahead and update Final Fantasy 11 with a Vers 2.0, give a HD remake, release it for Vita, PS3, Xbox 360 and Wii U - DROP PS2 support forever. There are tons of so called "classic PS2" games that are having a second life by getting an HD remake - Metal Gears, Devil May Cry, Silent Hill, Jax and Dexter, Ico, God of Wars 1+2, etc... And also the original Halo on Xbox that is "mastered" and upgraded as well. FF11 Vers 2.0 is pretty much guaranteed to have 80% of the original subscribers from FF11 Vers 1.0 and have possibility to get even more new ones. They should just stop with FF14, that is a project that is guaranteed to bomb hard, a loss investment.

[Unctgtg]

Bunny if they go that route, then let 14 be an expansion of 11 with all new races and areas. That would be completely fun in my mind.

[Teraniku]

I love how all the retard trolls took the whole "WotG Golden Age" as the only thing I said.... I clearly said ToAU as well, which was the golden age of this game,

It's not trolling when I clearly stated my position on why I thought WotG was the start of the downward spiral for this game. Rehashed Beseiged / Conquest code for Campaign and only 3 new original zones. Granted we got 4 decent to great storylines too, but my argument still stands.

[Dazusu]

which was the golden age of this game

I think you'll find its completely subjective to tastes. CoP was the golden age of this game (according to me)


FF11 Vers 2.0 is pretty much guaranteed to have 80% of the original subscribers from FF11

Stop talking. Just. Stop.

[Dazusu]

Bunny if they go that route, then let 14 be an expansion of 11 with all new races and areas. That would be completely fun in my mind.

And a really bad business move.

[Scuro]

And a really bad business move.

I don't understand how its a "Bad Business Move" lol, it was a bad business move for them to take a game that players have been dedicated to for a decade, and make a whole new game that has virtually no carry over from its predecessor. It was a bad business move for them to try and start two MMORPGs at the same time (which any business major can tell you, you never want to create competition amongst your own products, cuz its a gamble of a suicide business model if the new product can't effectively phase out the old product). It was a bad business move for them to try and develop both games simultaneously, it was a bad business move for them to release FFXIV before it was finished. It was a bad business move for them to not plan more content for FFXI after Abyssea content.

I mean hell, if you think the idea of having 11 integrated into 14 is a "Bad Business Move"... than just where the f*ck have you been after they announced fairly recently that they were going to practically REMAKE FFXIV, which, if you have been reading... IS A BAD BUSINESS MOVE! So I'm pretty sure doing what will guarantee subscribers, wouldn't be as bad of a move as all the other problems that both games are having to suffer from incompetent game developers. I can tell you right now, if I could play a tailless galka BLU in FFXIV, I would buy a new rig and rock the sh*t out of FFXIV in a heart beat! And wouldn't be planning on unsubscribing after the announcements of Vanafest if nothing new is coming out for FFXI.

The bad business model here is that they are forcibly removing their dedicated audience that has played FFXI for a decade, for an audience that bounces from MMORPG to the newest MMORPG. Why get rid of the people paying your bills for years, for that one night stand? SE has adequately taken an oversized s**t on its own dinner table for doing this to be entirely honest.

P.S
CoP's was a great story line don't get me wrong, and it layed much of the foundation for this game to expand to some great areas and great game mechanics, but honestly, there was no greater boom in player population for all worlds across the board than ToAU. Thats indisputable and proven by statistical fact! I mean hell, take it from someone that has been playing this game since N.A. release back when all there was was the game, RotZ and CoP expansions, the game got HUGE when ToAU was announced.

[FrankReynolds]

P.S
CoP's was a great story line don't get me wrong, and it layed much of the foundation for this game to expand to some great areas and great game mechanics, but honestly, there was no greater boom in player population for all worlds across the board than ToAU. Thats indisputable and proven by statistical fact! I mean hell, take it from someone that has been playing this game since N.A. release back when all there was was the game, RotZ and CoP expansions, the game got HUGE when ToAU was announced.

Splitting hairs here sorta, but ToAU was also timed with the release of the XBOX 360 version, and they gave away millions of free 360 beta discs in gaming magazines to prime that launch. They then allowed people to transfer their beta characters to the live servers. That was probably more of a factor than ToAU release in the increase in players.

[Dazusu]

I don't understand how its a "Bad Business Move" lol

There was so much mad in your post it made my eyes stream with joy. Thanks for the morning lift.

Of course it's a bad business move - because it alienates people who disliked FFXI, or associates XIV with the stigma of 'grind' attached to XI (not that XIV is less grindy, but it's not the image you want to perpetuate during a mostly casual gaming era to new clients). Let's say FFXI has 300K subscribers - you're saying SE should settle for that and create a cloned/updated FFXI, and not try draw in new customers when spending years developing a new game? That's a pretty delusional idea. (I feel I should mention that if they made an FFXI-2, I'd be all over it like a rash - but it just makes no sense)

If games companies went along that train of thought there would be zero forward progress in gaming. We'd now be playing PONG 3D.

It's a new game, new storyline, new characters. It's a fresh start, a chance to draw in new customers. Why on earth would a game that's 3 numerical iterations and two gaming generations the successor of XI be based on it? It makes no logical sense.

If you think anything is 'guaranteed' when it comes to subscription MMOs you are very much mistaken. Don't you keep up with the amount of threads on this very forum which scream "If you don't fix this, I'm quitting."? People make snap decisions and minds can change like the wind.

I'd assume that XIV has less subscribers than XI; and as a lot of people point out on this forum (this is not my opinion, but that of others) that most XI subscribers are still here due to loyalty and friends or nostalgia/habit/addiction. The fact that XIV was made with today's technology advances in rendering, system power and development speed but now fails to attract new or old gamers shows it needed a kick up the ass. Whether that comes in the form of redevelopment, or closing down, something had to be done to attract gamers.

Somehow I doubt that attracting the dwindling FFXI population and being content with just that, was an option.

By your reckoning, NCSOft shouldn't have multiple MMO's out at the same time (as they do now), nor should SONY. Yet they both do - and they both do it well.

I completely agree that we need a new expansion, or some epic content - a new continent (not rehashed zones and monsters). Vanafest is going to be make or break for myself. A rehash of Nyzul, Salvage, Einherjar, Dynamis and Limbus is all well and good - but the development team stretching it out over 2-4 years is taking the proverbial piss.

[FrankReynolds]

The problem isn't that they operate 2 MMOs (they actually have a third coming this year). There are plenty of other companies that do that. The problem is that they made another FF MMO, Expecting everyone to jump from here to there without doing anything to tie the two games together. Then they came out and publicly stated that the people who were paying for this game were getting a smaller development staff, and support staff because of it, while not lowering the price for this game, or listening to any feedback on the other. This is of course completely ignoring the myriad of other problems with FFXIV.

<customer> hey, thanks for the free beta trial, but there are major problems here. Can you fix this?

<SE> No, just pay us. Our game is perfect. You no understand.

<customer> wow, I spent like $1200 bucks on a rig to play this garbage heap, and now you want monthly fees too? Never mind, I think I'll just take this sour taste you left in my mouth and spread it all over the internet. Good luck with your MMO.

[Dazusu]

Expecting everyone to jump from here to there without doing anything to tie the two games together. Then they came out and publicly stated that the people who were paying for this game were getting a smaller development staff

Square actually publicly said in interviews (Which are still available on the net) that FFXIV wasn't meant to be a replacement for XI, and at most they thought some people would choose to play both, some would choose to stay on XI, and some would choose to move to XIV - and that they were aiming for a whole new audience.

Granted they failed on almost every point - but that was their intention.

[FrankReynolds]

Square actually publicly said in interviews (Which are still available on the net) that FFXIV wasn't meant to be a replacement for XI, and at most they thought some people would choose to play both, some would choose to stay on XI, and some would choose to move to XIV - and that they were aiming for a whole new audience.

Granted they failed on almost every point - but that was their intention.

They just flat out lied.

[Monchat]

there was a poll about 1 year ago on FF14 about that; only like 15% of XIV players had played XI before, which surprised me a lot. SE said they were surpirsed there were that many ( ithink 15% is not a lot lol).

[Scuro]

There was so much mad in your post it made my eyes stream with joy. Thanks for the morning lift.

Of course it's a bad business move - because it alienates people who disliked FFXI, or associates XIV with the stigma of 'grind' attached to XI (not that XIV is less grindy, but it's not the image you want to perpetuate during a mostly casual gaming era to new clients). Let's say FFXI has 300K subscribers - you're saying SE should settle for that and create a cloned/updated FFXI, and not try draw in new customers when spending years developing a new game? That's a pretty delusional idea. (I feel I should mention that if they made an FFXI-2, I'd be all over it like a rash - but it just makes no sense)

It's a new game, new storyline, new characters. It's a fresh start, a chance to draw in new customers. Why on earth would a game that's 3 numerical iterations and two gaming generations the successor of XI be based on it? It makes no logical sense....

Somehow I doubt that attracting the dwindling FFXI population and being content with just that, was an option...

By your reckoning, NCSOft shouldn't have multiple MMO's out at the same time (as they do now), nor should SONY. Yet they both do - and they both do it well....


1. A new game of the same content or an extended universe of content, draws new audience no matter what, Call of Duty, Halo, etc. Doesn't matter, anything that is more and is eye catching, is going to bring new people.

2. It can be all new, but it can also pay some respect to the audience that has dedicated a very long time into this game, as a sort of side perk. Instead of entirely alienating them and offering up this crap of a game as a forced alternative, by giving nothing new on FFXI, and pretty much endorsing the hell out of a shinny turd.

3. FFXI community wouldn't have been a dwindling one in FFXIV, if it made FFXIV a Version 2 of FFXI. (This meaning, keep the FFXIV game the way it is, but allow us to transfer over our characters and their respectful jobs)

4. you comparing guild wars and crap games like that that literally had a 3-5 year strong run (which even at its best didn't rival FFXI) VS a game that had at least a solid 8 year run.... discussion over.

[FrankReynolds]

there was a poll about 1 year ago on FF14 about that; only like 15% of XIV players had played XI before, which surprised me a lot. SE said they were surpirsed there were that many ( ithink 15% is not a lot lol).

I suspect that most of the players who came from XI quit almost immediately. The 10-15 people that I know in RL / from in game all quit within a few months. Only 1 or 2 came back to ffxi ; ;.