View Full Version : New skill gain system, but has it changed much?
Musahashi
03-15-2011, 04:39 PM
I'm referring specifically to guard and parrying skills here. While skilling up staff and club, I have noticed a small difference, it's now faster to get skill points, but has anyone noticed a difference in guard?
The reason I ask, is I was in TBT skilling up my guard since the update, and never gained 1 level in an hour and a half, before the update I would have got the level.
But something wierd occured while travelling through kuftal tunnel last week, while killing a single spider, I managed to get 2x 0.4 guard skill points... yes on the very same spider.
So, in relatoin to getting guard skill capped, have they made things worse or better? Yes the 0.8 on 1 lower level spider was nice, but how much have they changed the mob level:skill level ratio, or was it a fluke? And what level mobs should we be aiming for now?
Uncapped Goldsmithing skills results in fewer Guard skill ups.
SedoSan
03-16-2011, 03:05 AM
Actually Musahashi, I did notice the same. And I actually did have some numbers a while ago. When the new Mog thingy "Martial expert" or whatever it was called came out, which I believe makes it easier to level up skills, I tried to go and skill up my guard, i have it laying around 170ish so I went to some mobs that are considered EM, T+ to level up guard, and in 3 hours I didnt get 1 level up. I even PM'd a GM to ask him if there is a bug in the mog martial expert bonus, or if it doesnt affect defensive skills at all. He said he'll check with the DEV, and I never heard back, lol.
I love skilling up guard, its somehow fun, specially when you have nothing better to do.. but not getting 1 single level up for 3+ hours is just sad.
Superchicken
03-16-2011, 03:20 AM
i'm pretty sure SE stated that there will be an update to skill up for guard and parry
Protey
03-16-2011, 03:23 AM
Actually Musahashi, I did notice the same. And I actually did have some numbers a while ago. When the new Mog thingy "Martial expert" or whatever it was called came out, which I believe makes it easier to level up skills, I tried to go and skill up my guard, i have it laying around 170ish so I went to some mobs that are considered EM, T+ to level up guard, and in 3 hours I didnt get 1 level up. I even PM'd a GM to ask him if there is a bug in the mog martial expert bonus, or if it doesnt affect defensive skills at all. He said he'll check with the DEV, and I never heard back, lol.
I love skilling up guard, its somehow fun, specially when you have nothing better to do.. but not getting 1 single level up for 3+ hours is just sad.
You must be doing it wrong. First off, make sure signet is on while Martial Master is one of the kupowers. Next, go get all the + guard skill you can get. Then grab yourself a rdm with phalanx2 (whm/rdm works too, but phalanx is o so nice) and head to the boyadha tree. Have at least 6 mandies hitting you at once and have yourself attacking a far off mob so that you don't kill the mandies off too quickly. You should get AT LEAST 3 levels an hour. I did anyway.
Sakima
03-16-2011, 03:35 AM
Go to Abyssea-Altepa conflux 6 grab a whm or rdm and gather the mandies up watch out for cuji
Protey
03-16-2011, 03:59 AM
Go to Abyssea-Altepa conflux 6 grab a whm or rdm and gather the mandies up watch out for cuji
don't pay attention to this guy. at your current guard level you aren't going to proc guard enough in abyssea.
Greatguardian
03-16-2011, 05:12 AM
It's probably still the easiest way to level guard regardless. Throw on 3 Regen/Def/PDT atmas and read a book or watch a movie.
Protey
03-16-2011, 05:23 AM
it may be easy, but it's not practical. you'll just end up doing what they did... hours without a single level of skillup. Do what i suggested, it's the best method.
Bulrogg
03-16-2011, 06:00 AM
Before the skill up update I would wait till Martial master was up and do the math (divide current skill by three) and aim for mobs that are that level. I gathered all the mandies in jungle that I could and watched the skill go up as mandies killed themselves on counter.
But since the update I haven't tried. I focused more on capping weapons and haven't gone back for guard yet. So I am uncertain if the update nerfed doing it that way.
Musahashi
03-16-2011, 07:18 AM
Before the skill up update I would wait till Martial master was up and do the math (divide current skill by three) and aim for mobs that are that level. I gathered all the mandies in jungle that I could and watched the skill go up as mandies killed themselves on counter.
But since the update I haven't tried. I focused more on capping weapons and haven't gone back for guard yet. So I am uncertain if the update nerfed doing it that way.
This is my point, TBT isn't giving as much skill points as it used to. Mourioche's are level 62-68 and they give barely any skill points, the Recluse spider in Kuftal tunnel are 63-66. my skill is 207, 207/3 = 69... So why did I get 0.8 skill points in less than 5 minutes on a spider, and why don't I get anything from mandies?
Is it possible the ratio has changed? Also, Martial master wasn't even one of the kupowers when I got skill points from the spider, so if it was set as a kupower, how many skill points would I have gained?
Just a little food for thought.
Protey
03-16-2011, 08:14 AM
First off, mnk obtains 207 guard at level 61. Secondly, The Korrigan in TBT are 72-75. You should be able to go 260+ in TBT. Remember to use as much guard skill + gear as you can. You want to have guard skill as far beyond that what would correspond to the level of the mandies as you can (So for Korrigans i would shoot for nothing less than 280).
Musahashi
03-16-2011, 08:33 AM
First off, mnk obtains 207 guard at level 61. Secondly, The Korrigan in TBT are 72-75. You should be able to go 260+ in TBT. Remember to use as much guard skill + gear as you can. You want to have guard skill as far beyond that what would correspond to the level of the mandies as you can (So for Korrigans i would shoot for nothing less than 280).
Interesting, 207 @ 61 means the correct math would be to divide your current skill by 3.35 for the correct level, that makes a big difference.
63x3.35 = 211, so spiders in kuftal would be the right area for my level. That explains alot! Thanks^^
Protey
03-16-2011, 08:44 AM
it varies according to which job and skill you are leveling. But for the most part it's 3 skill levels until 50, then 5 skill levels until 75
Justalphoeni_x
03-21-2011, 02:54 PM
Thank you Protry for beating me to replying to his failed skill mathmatics. To Mushashi, the skills for differently ranked skills increases at set levels. as Protey said it starts at 3/level then 5/level @50 then 4/level@60 then back to 5/level @70 then goes to 6/level at 80.
Edit:For further help in this matter i have gone into wiki and added the level by level break down for guard under the skill cap section for Monk placed here: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Skill_Caps/Monk
Sakima
03-22-2011, 04:32 AM
With higher skill, Abyssea skill ups will be your best option dunno how you can negate that
Tekkenooo
03-22-2011, 04:48 AM
I think why most people do no wanna use stones for make skill up, and i quote this ^^. When i have end to download last update, when SE tell that change level for skill up, i'm go to Den of Rancor, Puk(Mandy) 74-77, to try skill up, i got a good guarding skill 269, i take 2 mandy, no skills, i take 3 many, no skills, i take 4 mandy, no skills... i take 6 mandy (why 1 link) i'm die why make 4 or 5 critical hit on my and before last hit i got a 0.3 skill up O.o
Now i have read that on next update make correction on guarding and parrying skill up so... i think they are a little problem more inside... XD so pls... wait next big update and the we go recheck it ^^
Protey
03-22-2011, 07:20 AM
With higher skill, Abyssea skill ups will be your best option dunno how you can negate that
yes with higher skill, but the OP has 207 guard...that is way too low for abyssea.
Shoko
03-22-2011, 10:22 AM
I'm sorry Protey, but you have it very wrong on skilling up. While 207 is indeed low for Abyssea, if you know what you are doing, you can skill up guard relatively fast in Abyssea. This however requires a WHM friend, or a WHM mule and a decent amount of stones.
I was 103 Guard before the skill up update, and now I'm 197 Guard. I usually get 5~15 levels per skill up session, usually more when the mandies are DC~EM, rather than T~IT. This is all in Abyssea - Attohwa. This also happened in a little under a week, while doing LS events, RL, etc. Futhermore my skill up sessions are usually 30~70 mins.
When servers are back up, I will probably cap both Guard for MNK, and Parrying for NIN with my excess stones, it's an amazing way to cap skills that not many are aware of yet.
Shoko
03-22-2011, 10:40 AM
Also, I will add that you must pull at least 60~100% of the mandies to pull this off. Hence the reason for the WHM.
1) PDT gear, and PDT atma to reach 50%.
2) WHM sneaks up, uses Sublimation (to negate Dream Flowers) and puts you on follow, cure bombing you with Cure V/VI as you take hits.
3) You run around and simply aggro all of the mandies you can find (no JAs to claim), then wedge yourself in a narrow crevice, or behind a wall, and let the mandy army simply beat the mess out of you as you kill them one by one slowly (in Guard+ gear) while your WHM cure bombs you.
This shoots up the attack rounds vs your character (hundreds to thousands of mandy attack rounds directed at your character) so high, guard procs very decently eventually, and you get 0.4s and 0.5s often.
I used this old skill up video as a guide and updated it to this Abyssea "standard":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP5rA_xZKWU
PS: I also tried parrying for the fun of it in-between and did 243 -> 247 skill within literally 5 mins. Might have been luck, lol.
Phalanx II (or Phalanx I with Accession) + 50% PDT = 0 damage taken from mandies.
Shoko
03-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Phalanx II (or Phalanx I with Accession) + 50% PDT = 0 damage taken from mandies.
Haha, I didn't even consider that honestly. Gonna have to level up my mule's RDM now.
Anathiel
04-17-2011, 07:30 AM
So I have a question for skilling up guard. I'm lvl 20 atm (just lvl'ing another job) and my guard skill is at 6. Is there some better way to get it skilled up? Or is there a certain lvl I should be worrying about this?
Haytienne
04-17-2011, 08:44 AM
One idea : 1 merit to gain 1 lvl skill
Greatguardian
04-17-2011, 05:31 PM
So I have a question for skilling up guard. I'm lvl 20 atm (just lvl'ing another job) and my guard skill is at 6. Is there some better way to get it skilled up? Or is there a certain lvl I should be worrying about this?
Don't worry about Guard at all. It's a fairly useless skill, even at Cap, and people only level it after they're 90 for the blue number.
Bulrogg
04-17-2011, 11:20 PM
If gear is all about the blue box shouldn't skill be all about the blue numbers? maybe it's just my ACDDDO
(that's ADD + OCD with the letters in the order they should be) <.<
Yeah, I've been trying to get Guard and Parry up there to the blue numbers even though they don't proc much when capped.
SedoSan
04-20-2011, 09:24 PM
so my guarding with full merits is 203 only right now, i was 170 yesterday.
read some of the comments and even though they say i'm too low for abyssea, i went anyways,
equipped my guard + equip and gave me 51 extra skills to 221, got me regen + def + vit atmas
at least 50 hp/tick regen, 50 vit and 40 def + other normal stuff, dual boxed with my friend's rdm
subbed war for defender and agrressor (reduce evasion), got Phalanx II, Protect V and Regen II on me
and finally ate def food Taco to reach to 750 DEF.
went to altepa, pulled 15 mandy at the same time, and found a nice curvature where i could land them all front of me.
5 skill ups every 30 minutes. it takes almost 30 minutes to kill 10 out of 15 of the mandies front of you from all the counter hits then its just not worth it skilling up with only 5 mandies.. So kill them all.., recast protect V and get another Taco, and redo. 3 Hours later, I have 203 skill now..
i'd say 10 skills per hour is pretty good. without the kupower as well, however I'm not sure if kupowers work in abyssea or not, anyone?
although, i did notice a loooooot of guard animations, though very little skill ups *compared to how much i guarded* is this normal or does it relate to my low guard skill level?
anyways i just wanted to share :)
Camate
04-22-2011, 04:13 AM
In regards to the difficulty in earning Guard/Parry skill ups, the dev. team mentioned that they are considering adjustments for those in a Q&A posted in February. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6258/detail.html)
Glamdring
04-22-2011, 04:27 AM
I'm referring specifically to guard and parrying skills here. While skilling up staff and club, I have noticed a small difference, it's now faster to get skill points, but has anyone noticed a difference in guard?
The reason I ask, is I was in TBT skilling up my guard since the update, and never gained 1 level in an hour and a half, before the update I would have got the level.
But something wierd occured while travelling through kuftal tunnel last week, while killing a single spider, I managed to get 2x 0.4 guard skill points... yes on the very same spider.
So, in relatoin to getting guard skill capped, have they made things worse or better? Yes the 0.8 on 1 lower level spider was nice, but how much have they changed the mob level:skill level ratio, or was it a fluke? And what level mobs should we be aiming for now?
there is an increase in guard and parry skill-ups, too. When I started the game with 0 parry skill I was on a 13 RL year cycle to hit cap, based on the rate I was receiving skill-up. It has been reduced to a 3 RL year pace. Guard is similar, but a bit faster if you are tanking.
Glamdring
04-22-2011, 04:29 AM
In regards to the difficulty in earning Guard/Parry skill ups, the dev. team mentioned that they are considering adjustments for those in a Q&A posted in February. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6258/detail.html)
could you perchance ask them to consider this one a bit faster? the skill-up system for these defensive skills has been broken since the very 1st copy of the game was sold.
Randwolf
04-22-2011, 04:38 AM
In regards to the difficulty in earning Guard/Parry skill ups, the dev. team mentioned that they are considering adjustments for those in a Q&A posted in February. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6258/detail.html)
Actually, that "considering adjustments" part is my concern. I'd rather see "We know it is broken and are considering what we will do to adjust it." Just so we know a future announcement doesn't say "We decided there was no problem."
Byrth
04-22-2011, 05:07 AM
In regards to the difficulty in earning Guard/Parry skill ups, the dev. team mentioned that they are considering adjustments for those in a Q&A posted in February. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6258/detail.html)
Have you considered making the rate of activation more dependent on skill? Currently there's no point in capping Parrying skill because it procs 5% of the time against IT monsters whether it's 0 or capped.
Orenwald
04-22-2011, 06:36 AM
it'd be awesome if they made Guard and Parry skill up when you fail to activate them like evasion. Would make everyone's life easier lol
Babygyrl
04-22-2011, 07:08 AM
i have honestly have felt no change in skill ups even though the rate is supposedly higher.. my magic skills are all still very gimp parrying never goes any where :x
Catsby
04-22-2011, 07:38 AM
Have you considered making the rate of activation more dependent on skill? Currently there's no point in capping Parrying skill because it procs 5% of the time against IT monsters whether it's 0 or capped.
This is the deeply seated question that is getting completely ignored. People are complaining about skillup rates and they don't even realize why they are trying to get skill ups in the first place.
Denabond
04-22-2011, 07:45 AM
This is the deeply seated question that is getting completely ignored. People are complaining about skillup rates and they don't even realize why they are trying to get skill ups in the first place.
I actually mentioned this in my increase the base guard proc rate thread, but no real response to it.
Catsby
04-22-2011, 08:19 AM
I actually mentioned this in my increase the base guard proc rate thread, but no real response to it.
That's the thing though. There are small(sometimes massive) problems like this in every job that people seem oblivious to.
Rambus
04-22-2011, 12:21 PM
In regards to the difficulty in earning Guard/Parry skill ups, the dev. team mentioned that they are considering adjustments for those in a Q&A posted in February. (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics/ff11us/detail/6258/detail.html)
that is not enough, there is no game "inbalance" for making skill up rates reasonable, the patch for skill up rates on other skills is still not enough and I think people tried stating that in the twitter feeds.
I rather have 2004 exp rate then the skill up rate we have
Imakun
04-22-2011, 06:39 PM
Please for the love of baby Altana look into Summoning Magic skill up rates while you're at it, they're still atrocious as they have always been.
Peldin
04-23-2011, 07:29 AM
This is the deeply seated question that is getting completely ignored. People are complaining about skillup rates and they don't even realize why they are trying to get skill ups in the first place.
Exactly. What is the point in asking for increased skill-up rate on a worthless skill? Ok ok, you want to have the capped skill just to have it. I can understand that. Some people just have too much time on their hands.
However, instead of begging SE to make it easier for you to get a blue number, why not ask them to actually make that blue number beneficial?
Please for the love of baby Altana look into Summoning Magic skill up rates while you're at it, they're still atrocious as they have always been.
Hey. At least your character benefits from leveling summoning magic skill. Monks are leveling Guard skill for absolutely zero benefit.
Mirage
04-23-2011, 07:32 AM
in my experience, skillups are much faster at low skill levels such as below 200, at least for weapons. Parry and such are still incredibly slow, because skilling that is like skilling a weapon that swings once every 10 minutes.
Glamdring
04-23-2011, 08:46 AM
and honestly, all you have to do is make parry/guard check Before evasion, not after... apparently this is incredibly difficult?
SedoSan
04-23-2011, 04:00 PM
and honestly, all you have to do is make parry/guard check Before evasion, not after... apparently this is incredibly difficult?
Not sure about that, for parry maybe its a good idea, however for guard, i'd rather to totally avoid getting hit than get hit even for 10 dmg while guarding. though, for skilling up at very low levels where your evasion is very high then it might be the case.
Mirage
04-24-2011, 12:51 AM
and honestly, all you have to do is make parry/guard check Before evasion, not after... apparently this is incredibly difficult?
It's not just that. Evasion also skills up even if you do get hit, while parry can only skill up when you actually perform a parry, which is very rare when your parrying is low.
Catsby
04-24-2011, 09:43 AM
It's not just that. Evasion also skills up even if you do get hit, while parry can only skill up when you actually perform a parry, which is very rare when your parrying is low.
^. I'm willing to bet parry/guard skill ups would be much faster if you could parry/guard more than 5% of the time. Keep in mind that parry/guard is also contending against evasion, shield, counter and probably something else i'm forgetting making the % it actually goes off even lower and the skillups even slower.