Nyzul Isle Uncharted information and feedback

[Transmit]

Our set up was...

Apoc DRK,
Almace BLU
Masa SAM
THF (I think lux...)
Ukon WAR
SCH

We hit on our 4 runs. Floor 58 > Floor 80 (Euxine Coat +3, Tethyan Trews +3), Floor 74, Floor 106...

Truth be told we are all laughing about it, and we do enjoy the events, but you need a static of trusted friends. However, PLEASE SE make it so you can't overshoot 100!

[Karbuncle]

I said it on BG, but yah, I don't know how you guys are laughing. I think its that laugh thats a border-line insanity/snapped laugh.

If i had over-shot 100, My Computer would mimic my post on the previous page.

Still, I'm assuming you had Embrava up the Entire time? Sorry for seeming dense. Its just, My group can almost exactly mirror that set up, Except the THF(me) Would have mandau...

Almost gives me hope. Maybe they'll cap floor 100. Wouldn't that be lovely? Wishful thinking, Knowing them, overshooting is just more balance.

[Soidisant]

We do the first 10-15 mins without Embrava and then if it looks like we have a decent chance of hitting 80+ we Embrava up on the next viable floor (i.e. no point doing it on Lamps or Spec Enemy).

Before we start our runs, the SCH farms a Revit in Abyssea so he can reset 2hr quickly if needed. If we need it more than twice then we hope for a Revit midrun or rely on Wild Card.


And like I said on BG. Honestly not remotely upset about it rolling around to 106 as I fully expected it. It's how old Nyzul worked and I couldn't see SE changing it as it would have been more work to do it. Plus they would have had to actually think about the possibility which I doubt they did.

We had fun in our runs and showed it was possible (first group to manage it?). And it shows it's worth us doing more runs in future as at the very least we'll be picking up F80 gear semi-frequently.

In future we'll primarily aim for F80.

I really can't stress enough that this is actually an enjoyable event even if you don't suceed every run. People have ripped into it but I'm willing to wager that a lot of those people haven't given it a serious attempt and have just dismissed it as they don't think getting the best gear is possible.

[Transmit]

We basically have our SCH stay by the rune at all times, AoE Regen at the start of each floor and lets us DD's run wild. The SCH uses Embrava half way through the run if its looking promising for us to get to a higher floor. Pray to the random number generators which select what mobs we get and how many ??? floors we go up.

As you can see from the floor numbers we reached, random number generator says FU? Well floor 58..

[Yygdrasil]

Yygdrasil's Hope Skill rises .5 points

[Greatguardian]

http://i.imgur.com/jZlej.png

Dear SE,

No.... just.... just no....

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/131/319047856_dbf1ef3e92.jpg

[SpankWustler]

http://i.imgur.com/jZlej.png

Dear SE,

No.... just.... just no....

http://i.imgur.com/2lPBv.jpg

[Economizer]

Knowing them, overshooting is just more balance.

I'm thinking you can now no longer overshoot 100, but in exchange you can't skip any boss floor anymore...

[Fupafighter]

SEE lol...it is achievable with good groups

[Rezeak]

SEE lol...it is achievable with near perfect groups 1% of the time

Fixed for you :)

[Soidisant]

Fixed for you :)

2/4 runs we did tonight had the chance for a 100 (We took 77 > 78 > 79 > 80 > Exit with 1 min on an earlier run instead of trying for 100). And both those runs had mistakes/problems in (Our Ukon WAR died on F14 during our 106 run for example)

Another group on Asura also hit 100 last night and they were only 5 + 1 mule.

[Kristal]

http://i.imgur.com/jZlej.png

Yeah... that's a bug alright... the entire purpose of the 100 floor climb is to get to floor 100...
Maybe add a third floor jump inbetween the two existing ones: "Travel to floor ??? (Limit: 60)." when you are at floor 41-59. That way, you can still skip over useless 20/40 boss floors if you want, but not run the risk of missing out on wanted floors.

They also should change the drops. Floor 20 boss should drop the NQ gear, floor 40 boss should drop an upgrade item to synergize NQ into +1, floor 60 boss then drops an upgrade item to synergize +1 into +2, etc. That way, the drop system makes some sense. Keep the upgrade items to 1 per set (rather then per armor piece), like they did with artifact armor +1 upgrades.

[Wisha]

W E L C O M E　 t o　 F l o o r 6.



LOL

[Runespider]

The overshoot thing is disgusting lol I know why they did it but it's unbelievable they would stoop that low to keep people from getting there even with a lot of luck.

They are gonna end up "fixing" this event in some way or other and since it will then actually be possible to get the top tier drops they will nerf them.

[Helel]

Grats on hitting 100, overshooting it, whatever. The fact is, nobody has posted a single successful kill of the 100 floor boss since the event has been introduced. Nyzul is not hard; it doesn't require weeks of experience to get better at it; so this trend here, of not a single group killing the floor 100 boss, will very likely continue.

[Mahoro]

I agree that overshoot deal is completely disgusting. I understand that may be how nyzul worked in the past, but if your group gets that high there should not be such a soul crushing comedown as that screenshot displays. It doesn't even make internal sense (hay guise I climb da towerz, woops I climbt too high and end up back where I started lulz).

The people who are saying "oh look it's achievable with a good group" are leaving out one very important distinction. It might be NECESSARY to have a good group to reach F100 (or at least passable melee plus one good SCH), but it sure as hell isn't SUFFICIENT. The good group has to have the 1% luck of the RNG.

[Mirabelle]

2/4 runs we did tonight had the chance for a 100 (We took 77 > 78 > 79 > 80 > Exit with 1 min on an earlier run instead of trying for 100). And both those runs had mistakes/problems in (Our Ukon WAR died on F14 during our 106 run for example)

Another group on Asura also hit 100 last night and they were only 5 + 1 mule.

But you don't say what 3rd party tools you used to achieve this. So far we've just heard setup and weapons. Not gear, third party tools, what other elite accomplishments this group has obtained. Do you believe at all that a standard grouping of average players without "certain" tools would have any hope of getting that high?
If the console population is locked out, if the average players are locked out, then it really fails as an event.

That being said, I'm thinking it might be nice to have an event that only th elite can accomplish so as to keep them from constantly complaining that FFXI is Easy Mode.

[saevel]

I agree that overshoot deal is completely disgusting. I understand that may be how nyzul worked in the past, but if your group gets that high there should not be such a soul crushing comedown as that screenshot displays. It doesn't even make internal sense (hay guise I climb da towerz, woops I climbt too high and end up back where I started lulz).

The people who are saying "oh look it's achievable with a good group" are leaving out one very important distinction. It might be NECESSARY to have a good group to reach F100 (or at least passable melee plus one good SCH), but it sure as hell isn't SUFFICIENT. The good group has to have the 1% luck of the RNG.

Haha you made me think of /etc/pam.conf and the differences between required, sufficient and requisite.

[Brolic]

But you don't say what 3rd party tools you used to achieve this. So far we've just heard setup and weapons. Not gear, third party tools, what other elite accomplishments this group has obtained. Do you believe at all that a standard grouping of average players without "certain" tools would have any hope of getting that high?
If the console population is locked out, if the average players are locked out, then it really fails as an event.

That being said, I'm thinking it might be nice to have an event that only th elite can accomplish so as to keep them from constantly complaining that FFXI is Easy Mode.

they're eu's, they never had the minerals to flee\clipper around. i'd imagine just widower and fill mode

[Dreamin]

SEE lol...it is achievable with good groups WITH 3rd Party Tools.

Looked, I dont want to bring up the whole debate as to whether ppl should be using 3rd party tool or not. Whether ppl are for or against and all that jazz. But really posting here to show that it can be done but NOT posting as to what all the 3rd party tools ppl have to use to achive them just not going to do any justice and does not show the near impossibility for ppl who are on the console or chooses NOT to use these 3rd party tools at all.

[Soidisant]

Literally the only programs I had open was FFXI, Notepad to write run details down and Firefox to check drop prios on our LS website + post results.

No 100 isn't accessible to everyone but not because of 3rd party programs or anything of the sort. The only thing you need is 6 competent people and a balanced set-up. You won't hit 100 every run but you will hit 60 or 80 in the vast majority of them. With no 3rd party apps. 100 will be a rarity but possible.

And for anyone incapable of doing that, the F40 drops are probably improvements on their current gear.

The main issue with Neo-Nyzul imo is that you can only do 7 runs per week. I'd go more often if given the chance. We all wanted to do more runs last night but tags didn't allow it.

[Dreamin]

Literally the only programs I had open was FFXI, Notepad to write run details down and Firefox to check drop prios on our LS website + post results.

No 100 isn't accessible to everyone but not because of 3rd party programs or anything of the sort. The only thing you need is 6 competent people and a balanced set-up. You won't hit 100 every run but you will hit 60 or 80 in the vast majority of them. With no 3rd party apps. 100 will be a rarity but possible.

And for anyone incapable of doing that, the F40 drops are probably improvements on their current gear.

The main issue with Neo-Nyzul imo is that you can only do 7 runs per week. I'd go more often if given the chance. We all wanted to do more runs last night but tags didn't allow it.

lol nice lying through your teeth about not using any 3rd party tools. Unless you're not the same Jem that's posting on BG.

Seriously, I dont have issues with ppl who uses these tools at all. but you guys coming in here saying that 100 is reachable when you're clearing using these tools is not doing anything good to the rest of the playerbase at all (you posted on BG saying that one person in your group uses Apradar and most others uses fillmode and modded lamp dat).

Post a SS there showing without the use of any of these 3rd party tool and I'll STFU. Until then, stop lying here and saying that 100 is possible without the use of 3rd party tools when in fact that's the only way you were able to 'over shoot' and get to the 6th floor.

[Yygdrasil]

lol nice lying through your teeth about not using any 3rd party tools. Unless you're not the same Jem that's posting on BG.

Seriously, I dont have issues with ppl who uses these tools at all. but you guys coming in here saying that 100 is reachable when you're clearing using these tools is not doing anything good to the rest of the playerbase at all (you posted on BG saying that one person in your group uses Apradar and most others uses fillmode and modded lamp dat).

Post a SS there showing without the use of any of these 3rd party tool and I'll STFU. Until then, stop lying here and saying that 100 is possible without the use of 3rd party tools when in fact that's the only way you were able to 'over shoot' and get to the 6th floor.

Sounds like someone is jealous

[Soidisant]

Good job twisting it to suit your argument. Read word for word what I wrote. There's zero lies in there. Amiguous? Yes. Lies? Not one.

Could 6 people with our gear/setup hit 60-80 consistently on consoles? Absolutely. They would have probably matched our 106 run last night given that we had 2 mins 45 secs left and on that particular run, fillmode would not have saved more than 2 mins 45 seconds.

[Transmit]

There was no clipper used, no flee hacks, no wall hacks used, I didnt personally use fillmode or any form of Mappy / ApRadar style program. A few people in the group had modified .dats to display a number next to lamps, but we never had any lamp order floors to make any use of it.

[Dreamin]

Good job twisting it to suit your argument. Read word for word what I wrote. There's zero lies in there. Amiguous? Yes. Lies? Not one.

Could 6 people with our gear/setup hit 60-80 consistently on consoles? Absolutely. They would have probably matched our 106 run last night given that we had 2 mins 45 secs left and on that particular run, fillmode would not have saved more than 2 mins 45 seconds.

Then:

1. Why you edit your post (#790) to remove that the fact ppl in your group used fillmode, apradar, etc?
2. Then do a run without ANY of these tools. Post your SS (you can use a crappy camera SS I wont make fun of any fuzzy image if you want) that you were able to get to Floor 100 (dont even need to fight or clear the boss there).

[Dreamin]

There was no clipper used, no flee hacks, no wall hacks used, I didnt personally use fillmode or any form of Mappy / ApRadar style program. A few people in the group had modified .dats to display a number next to lamps, but we never had any lamp order floors to make any use of it.

1. Do you or any of the ppl in your group use Windower ?
2. Do you or any of the ppl in your group uses Apradar/fillmode/dat mod or anything else?

Yes to either one of the 2 above means you ARE USING 3rd party tools. Get to 100th without any of these tools and then I'll STFU. Until then, stop agruing that FLOOR 100 is do-able without these tools and that SE should not fix it!

[Dreamin]

Sounds like someone is jealous

Jealous no. Just want them to be real and tell the whole story. If they or anyone can get to Floor 100 without the use of any 3rd party tool, then SE is right, this event is DO-ABLE. But until anyone can show that can be done. SE needs to fix this.

There's nothing to be jealous about. What gears other ppl have, how they chooses to play their game doesnt' impact one bit at all. Just mis-representing how near impossible an event is and therefore making the event unreachable for the rest of the playerbases who either chooses to not use the same tools or cannot use the same tools as they do is just not fair for everyone at all. And SE need to hear about it and fix the damn event.

[Brolic]

Nice try, I sign up with Guildwork to when they were coming out as the 'be all end all LS management tool'. Register doesn't make it so I used their client. Try harder next time. I started on the Xbox beta and I did ended up on the pc after my xbox was replaced by MS and cannot reinstall my FFXI for whatever reason.

And by the way, fillmode and apradar are not part of the official FFXI client and by that definition would makes them 3rd party program. Or would you want a clarification from a GM or an official SE rep for you on that?

Like I've said, I dont have any problem with ppl wanting to use 3rd party tools. I know lots of ppl who do. Even have friends that does. It doesn't bother me one bit at all. My only issues are with those of you who somehow wants to claim that Floor 100 can be consistently done but fails to also say that it CAN only be done using these tools. Like I've said, until someone can proof to me with SS that Floor 100th can be done on any consistently basis without using any 3rd party tools, then I'll STFU, until then, stop agruing that Floor 100th and that ONLY elitist can get there. But the fact is right now ONLY CHEATERS who uses 3rd party tool can get there.

looking at your gear on ffxi, it wouldn't matter anyway. with all the 3rd party CHEATS in the world you're not going to get past floor 60.

[Soidisant]

Then:

1. Why you edit your post (#790) to remove that the fact ppl in your group used fillmode, apradar, etc?
2. Then do a run without ANY of these tools. Post your SS (you can use a crappy camera SS I wont make fun of any fuzzy image if you want) that you were able to get to Floor 100 (dont even need to fight or clear the boss there).

I editted my post to add in the bit that says '+ post results' in case you were going to get anal and say 'You were posting on BG too!'. That was literally the only edit to the post. There was never any mention of fillmode or apradar or anything else. But nice try on making shit up to try support your argument.

Even if someone from my group posted saying 'I USE BLAH BLAH', I would still never personally mention it on these forums. It is not my place to implicate others even if there's only a 0.001% chance they got banned for it.

It is possible to reach 100 without 3rd party apps. Just because people are supposedly using them when reaching 100, doesn't mean it isn't possible without using them. For instance I would be amazed if there was any top tier VW kills that took place with zero windower users present but that doesn't mean that T6 VW is impossible without using windower.

[Greatguardian]

1. Do you or any of the ppl in your group use Windower ?
2. Do you or any of the ppl in your group uses Apradar/fillmode/dat mod or anything else?

Yes to either one of the 2 above means you ARE USING 3rd party tools. Get to 100th without any of these tools and then I'll STFU. Until then, stop agruing that FLOOR 100 is do-able without these tools and that SE should not fix it!

God, shut the hell up.

There's a difference between "If you can't flee 24/7, you can't get this Regain Feather from Parradamo Tor" and "Having a map makes things a bit easier".

You're annoying. Please stop posting. You don't contribute anything of value to the discussion.

[Dreamin]

lol.

Yup, I'm never one for having all the top gears across the board, you can ask ppl who knows me. If I were to grade myself, I'm an above avg player that plays all my jobs competently (okay other than even trying to main heal on RDM, ppl who ever have to suffer through that I'm sorry). I know that I'm definitely better then half of the ppl who has relics/emps. I wont disrespect my relic or emp by gearing crap with it.


And at the same time, I dont pretend that I'm better than everyone else either if I cheat by using 3rd party programs. Again, as I've said earlier, my issue isn't against ppl who chooses to use these 3rd party tools. But my issue is against you guys coming in here saying that Floor 100 is do-able for ppl who doesn't use tools at all. When you can show me that you are so SKILL that you can reach Floor 100, then I will STFU. but until then, stop acting like you're better than a lot of ppl are because you're only better because you CHEATED.

[Dreamin]

I editted my post to add in the bit that says '+ post results' in case you were going to get anal and say 'You were posting on BG too!'. That was literally the only edit to the post. There was never any mention of fillmode or apradar or anything else. But nice try on making shit up to try support your argument.

Even if someone from my group posted saying 'I USE BLAH BLAH', I would still never personally mention it on these forums. It is not my place to implicate others even if there's only a 0.001% chance they got banned for it.

It is possible to reach 100 without 3rd party apps. Just because people are supposedly using them when reaching 100, doesn't mean it isn't possible without using them. For instance I would be amazed if there was any top tier VW kills that took place with zero windower users present but that doesn't mean that T6 VW is impossible without using windower.

Until I see a SS that shows ppl reaching Floor 100, then yes, it's possible but realistically near impossible. Again, I dont have issues with what and how ppl chooses to play their game. My only issue is that you guys are making it sounds like this event isn't broken and needs to be fixed. So until you can reach floor 100th without cheating, stoping claiming that 100th is doable please for the rest of the playerbase so SE will fix this F*ed up event.

[Dreamin]

God, shut the hell up.

There's a difference between "If you can't flee 24/7, you can't get this Regain Feather from Parradamo Tor" and "Having a map makes things a bit easier".

You're annoying. Please stop posting. You don't contribute anything of value to the discussion.

And you're contributing by how? Showing that Floor 100 is do-able but with holding the fact that it is indeed only currently do-able by using 3rd party tool?

Please. Those ppl are only able to do it because they are using tools. If and when ppl are able to get to Floor 100 without tools, then I'll STFU. But until then, I'll keep telling SE that this event is broken and needs to be fixed.

[Soidisant]

How many times do I have to say it. If you put 6 competent people in a group and throw them into Nyzul then they will reach Floor 60-80 consistently with practice. They will sometimes reach 100+. This is regardless of 3rd party tools.

If you are incapable of this then yes our group is better than you. However, if you are a competent player and have competent friends then you 100% will be capable of this even without any 3rd party help.

We didn't come post want acclaim or anything like that. We were posting to show that Nyzul is not anywhere near as bad as people make out. And the majority of the people complaining probably haven't even given this event serious attempts with decent set-ups.

[Greatguardian]

And you're contributing by how? Showing that Floor 100 is do-able but with holding the fact that it is indeed only currently do-able by using 3rd party tool?

Please. Those ppl are only able to do it because they are using tools. If and when ppl are able to get to Floor 100 without tools, then I'll STFU. But until then, I'll keep telling SE that this event is broken and needs to be fixed.

The event could use work. But you're being a gigantic flaming troglodyte and it's pissing me off. Go away.

It shouldn't matter to you either way. Even if the event gets fixed properly, you're never going to hit floor 100.

[Brolic]

get busy cheatin or stay busy suckin

http://www.shrink4men.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Morgan-Freeman-The-Shawshank-Redemption-255x300.jpg

[Dreamin]

The event could use work. But you're being a gigantic flaming troglodyte and it's pissing me off. Go away.

It shouldn't matter to you either way. Even if the event gets fixed properly, you're never going to hit floor 100.

lol this thing isn't hard to competent ppl. my group 4+1mule+1guest on our 3rd run, we beat the floor 60 boss but have to exit @ 65.

Our setup is: 2x BLU (I'm one of them with a fakealmac), MNK (vere) + BRD (mule usually @ start), SCH, DRK (cata) right now.

We have a guest now cuz one of our regular one is busy with IRL.

Nysul Isle is all about team work and being fast on your feet. Being able to response to different situation is far more important then having all pimped out ppl because most NMs die fast anyway. (We got Nekko/Nukko/Flayer in 1 run and then that annoying THF Qiqirn is a real pain in the rear).

This event isn't hard, the only HARD part is the near impossible way to reaching floor 100 on a consistent basis. And that is what needs fixing.

[Soidisant]

If you could hit 100 on a consistent basis then the stats of the items would have to be reduced. Which is basically what 80 drops are. If those 100 drops were changed to the 80 drops and the difficulty to reaching 100 reduced to the difficulty of reach 80, then people would not be complaining.

People are only complaining because there's better gear that they view as unobtainable. The actual stats on that gear doesn't matter.

[Fupafighter]

Yall just need to stop complaining lol. Keep doing the event and i GUARENTEE you if your skilled and have good gear, you will get atleast floor 80 gear eventually. Oh and you cant expect to freakin hit floor 100 samurai's with your damn kikugosaku >.> Get real shit and try again.

[Dart]

get busy cheatin or stay busy suckin

http://www.shrink4men.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Morgan-Freeman-The-Shawshank-Redemption-255x300.jpg

6/10

i didn't feel you as a black man

On a more personal note, I'm with soid on this one. My group of friends aren't elite players, but they are competent and they listen to instructions (vent is a godsend for events like nyzul). With vent and some coordination we hit floor 60 on our first dry run, and we did soooooo many things wrong lol.

It's quite feasible to get to 100 with some practice and a good set up.

[Scribble]

Another pair of pennies to add:

Progression SE, progression...

Make Neo Nyzul a progression climb like it originally was. Allow the Runic Discs to store floors in multiples of 20 instead of 5. Your disc will save progress only after completion of a 20, 40, 60, or 80 floor and will be reset upon clearing floor 100. If you clear floor 20 you can exit instead of continuing and next entry you start at floor 21, so on.

Depending on which floor you started at, you get better loot for clearing more floors. If you don't save and make the run in one shot you get two extra pieces of loot. If you saved at 40 you get an extra piece. If you saved at 60 you get normal drops. Running 80-100 being the easiest drops less loot, but is easier to complete.

Allowing players to save every 20 floors lets those who may be more casual to at least experience the higher levels of NI. Players who are more hardcore can opt to still make the push to 100 on a single tag. Casuals get a better chance to see higher floors at the expense of tags/loot and hardcore still keep it as challenging(read: luck based) as they want it.

Those who aren't geared to the teeth could climb 20 floors at a time and slowly gear up. As they get more experienced and better geared they could experiment with trying to climb from 60-100 instead of 80-100. Then when they're ready for more challenge they could climb from 40-100... ect.

This would allow players more options for clearing the content. It's also a bit of relief for those who happened to overshoot their goal. You'd still be somewhat screwed if you overshot, but at least you could start your next run at the previous floor you saved to.

[Greatguardian]

Being casual has nothing to do with being well-geared and capable of hitting floor 80 on any given 30-minute run. My playtime most certainly classifies me as casual and I'm surely in no danger of being unable to hit higher floors when I go.

People get mad at me for using "Casual" as a derogatory term, but that's really all you're doing here. It's just a euphemism for gimp. Rather than insulting legitimate casual players by asserting that they're unable to gear themselves and play with the skill necessary to get to floor 80+ as the event is now, just use the correct terminology from the get-go. Being gimp and being casual are two completely different things.

Now, after we correct your terminology, do I really care if gimps are capable of hitting floor 100? Not really. In fact, I think they shouldn't. Straight up. Gimp players shouldn't be hitting floor 100. If they can, then it's just straight up way too easy for everyone else. That's not fun. Not because it's "accessible", as I couldn't care less about access to gear, but because it would just be laughably easy and not any fun if it got dumbed down that much.

Now if we really wanted to talk about legit casual players for a second, as in people who are casual but are not total gimps, then the current system is better than one that requires grinding progression for them. They are able to go in at maximum potential whenever they decide to log in. They won't need to go save floor clears for later. They just need to hop in and beat the crap out of things and go as high as they can.

[Economizer]

Personally I like the concept of random floor jumps and starting from floor one, I think the major problem is that you can't do anything with the lower tier gear once you get the upgrade... it isn't lower level and does about nothing while being terrible compared to most gear.

While people are starting to be able to access floor 100 and this event gets more and more figured out I think that it is a shame that you just plain can't do anything with lower tier gear. I think that while it would be fair to have the event go on for some time unchanged I think it is just wrong that you can't do anything with lower tier gear, particularly that of floor 20/40 and for those who can get to floor 80 with some consistency floor 60 gear.

You can't upgrade it, you can't use it to start at certain floors or jump a certain number of floors, you can't trade it for alexandrite, you can't trade it for Imperial Standing, you can't do much of anything with it. I think fixing this would solve all the key issues.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask that the gear do something once players have the better gear in their possession at the very least, even some booby prize for having useless gear land on your person.

[Kristal]

Make Neo Nyzul a progression climb like it originally was. Allow the Runic Discs to store floors in multiples of 20 instead of 5. Your disc will save progress only after completion of a 20, 40, 60, or 80 floor and will be reset upon clearing floor 100. If you clear floor 20 you can exit instead of continuing and next entry you start at floor 21, so on.

Depending on which floor you started at, you get better loot for clearing more floors. If you don't save and make the run in one shot you get two extra pieces of loot. If you saved at 40 you get an extra piece. If you saved at 60 you get normal drops. Running 80-100 being the easiest drops less loot, but is easier to complete.

Allowing players to save every 20 floors lets those who may be more casual to at least experience the higher levels of NI. Players who are more hardcore can opt to still make the push to 100 on a single tag. Casuals get a better chance to see higher floors at the expense of tags/loot and hardcore still keep it as challenging(read: luck based) as they want it.

Those who aren't geared to the teeth could climb 20 floors at a time and slowly gear up. As they get more experienced and better geared they could experiment with trying to climb from 60-100 instead of 80-100. Then when they're ready for more challenge they could climb from 40-100... ect.

This would allow players more options for clearing the content. It's also a bit of relief for those who happened to overshoot their goal. You'd still be somewhat screwed if you overshot, but at least you could start your next run at the previous floor you saved to.

Quality of loot depends on numbers of floors reached, so 1-20 or 81-100 would give the same NQ loot. Only the floor number would be different. If you want floor 100 loot, you ride the neo nyzul train to the end. (Overshooting an intended boss floor should be addressed though.)

[Scribble]

Quality of loot depends on numbers of floors reached, so 1-20 or 81-100 would give the same NQ loot. Only the floor number would be different. If you want floor 100 loot, you ride the neo nyzul train to the end. (Overshooting an intended boss floor should be addressed though.)

I think maybe I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting you get the same loot for completing 20 as you would for completing 100. What I meant was that your loot would be based on which floor you started from.

For example, if you were saved to 80 and you cleared through 100 you'd get the least amount of loot for only having climbed 20 floors. If you were saved to floor 20 and made it to 100 you'd get only slightly less loot than a group who had cleared 1-100 because you worked your way through 80 floors.

Not only do people who can 'ride the train to the end' in one shot get more loot, but they would only spend 1 tag doing so. Those who were struggling could secure a better chance at progressing to the end at the expense of spending more tags to receive less loot.

I'll use real numbers to give a better idea. So lets say you're a badass and you clear 1-100 in one shot on a regular basis and I'm a scrub who can't seem to get it together to click a lamp at a certain time... If you start with 4 tags you would clear several times and end up with 16 pieces of gear. In the same time, I opt to split my tags and get 4 pieces of gear. So in terms of reward:

You get 4 pieces for a one-shot 1-100 clear
You get 3 pieces for clearing to 100 from a save at floor 20(80 floors in a run)
You get 2 pieces for clearing from floor 40-100(60 floors in one shot)
You get 1 piece for clearing 60-100 or 80-100 since 40 floors seems to be easily accomplished

The higher you climb before you make your final run to 100, the lower the number of drops. You gamble on possibly wasting a tag if you time out or have to exit when trying to make a full climb, but you spend more tags for consistently being able to reach floor 100 in several runs for less loot. Something similar to the above adjustment would also be applied to gear from lower floors. 1-80 on a tag would give you max loot, 20-80 on a tag would give less loot and 60-80 would give the least loot.

Basically it's a reward curve. The more you risk, the better the rewards. I just figured that something like that which is influenced directly by players gets everyone participating. You also negate all the QQ because if people can't clear 100 in one shot, when they bitch about it you just remind them that perhaps they need more time on their 'training wheels' :P

[Mirabelle]

Being casual has nothing to do with being well-geared and capable of hitting floor 80 on any given 30-minute run. My playtime most certainly classifies me as casual and I'm surely in no danger of being unable to hit higher floors when I go.

People get mad at me for using "Casual" as a derogatory term, but that's really all you're doing here. It's just a euphemism for gimp. Rather than insulting legitimate casual players by asserting that they're unable to gear themselves and play with the skill necessary to get to floor 80+ as the event is now, just use the correct terminology from the get-go. Being gimp and being casual are two completely different things.

Now, after we correct your terminology, do I really care if gimps are capable of hitting floor 100? Not really. In fact, I think they shouldn't. Straight up. Gimp players shouldn't be hitting floor 100. If they can, then it's just straight up way too easy for everyone else. That's not fun. Not because it's "accessible", as I couldn't care less about access to gear, but because it would just be laughably easy and not any fun if it got dumbed down that much.

Now if we really wanted to talk about legit casual players for a second, as in people who are casual but are not total gimps, then the current system is better than one that requires grinding progression for them. They are able to go in at maximum potential whenever they decide to log in. They won't need to go save floor clears for later. They just need to hop in and beat the crap out of things and go as high as they can.

I understand you are a good player GG, but it really offends me when people in this game refer to others in discrete variable or binary terms: you are either good or gimp. Players in this game run as a continuous variable across the spectrum from lousy to great. There will be a point where achieving certain goals will be impossible in Nyzul. The question is where the bar is set. Is it for an average group? An above average group? A group with tools? A group using vent?
You fuzz about Dreamin being a troglodyte, but using the term "gimp" to represent every player in the game other than the best is equally neanderthal in its approach.

Anyway, I'm glad certain groups are achieving what they want out of the event. Still suspect it needs some adjusting. But SE will likely do a few things before all is said and done. Likely around the time the gear becomes sadly outdated.

[Scribble]

Being casual has nothing to do with being well-geared and capable of hitting floor 80 on any given 30-minute run.

No one is consistently hitting 80 regardless of how hardcore they are. By no one I mean far fewer well geared groups than you would expect. There isn't really a threshold for how geared you need to be since you could take the top geared players in XI, toss them in a group and they'd still get fucked over by a bad streak of floor objectives and ??? past where they need to be.


Gimp players shouldn't be hitting floor 100. If they can, then it's just straight up way too easy for everyone else. That's not fun. Not because it's "accessible", as I couldn't care less about access to gear, but because it would just be laughably easy and not any fun if it got dumbed down that much.

If you'd read or understood my suggestion you would see that the result is not only challenging for those who wish to push 100 on one tag, but it's fair in the spoils the players receive. If you really don't care if 'gimps' are capable of reaching floor 100 then this shouldn't bother you, should it?

[Greatguardian]

I understand you are a good player GG, but it really offends me when people in this game refer to others in discrete variable or binary terms: you are either good or gimp. Players in this game run as a continuous variable across the spectrum from lousy to great. There will be a point where achieving certain goals will be impossible in Nyzul. The question is where the bar is set. Is it for an average group? An above average group? A group with tools? A group using vent?
You fuzz about Dreamin being a troglodyte, but using the term "gimp" to represent every player in the game other than the best is equally neanderthal in its approach.

Anyway, I'm glad certain groups are achieving what they want out of the event. Still suspect it needs some adjusting. But SE will likely do a few things before all is said and done. Likely around the time the gear becomes sadly outdated.

The FFXI middle class is so insignificantly small that it really makes no difference one way or another. The vast majority of players are either good or terrible. The gradation exists, but it is underutilized and has very little bearing on practical discourse.

Most people think they fall into the middle when, in reality, they're not. Example #1: The guy who claims to be "Above average" earlier in this thread while wearing AF3+1 feet and Artemis Medal in a hodge-podge TP set on BLU.

[Dreamin]

lol. ever heard of town gears? know that there are actually ppl out there that loves to troll some of you BG elitists?

you guys are so full of yourself that it's fun to troll you guys. try harder.

[Greatguardian]

Example #2: Anyone who actually uses the phrase "BG Elitists" in a non-facetious manner.

[Scribble]

GG your gear isn't perfect either. The bottom line is it doesn't matter.

A 'gimp' group could get lucky and hit 100 and the 'dream team' could get stymied by crappy luck with floors. What does it mean? The event needs adjustments.

[Dreamin]

Example #2: Anyone who actually uses the phrase "BG Elitists" in a non-facetious manner.

As Scribble points out, your MNK isn't prefect either, so I guess that kind of kicks you off the elitist's level and into the lower class citizens because there aren't middle class in your opinion.

Why would you disrepect your Vere with a Merman to TP in? Really, merman? Come on, you can do better than that. Can't get your hands on at least Aesir? No Ocelomeh Headpiece +1? And you really TP in that AF3+2 body? Where's your Ocelomeh Harness+1 to pair up with that headpiece for TP? Where's your Toci? Should I go on? [using your logic that ppl's gear that they have on in ffxiah is their TP gear set is just lol].

[Greatguardian]

As Scribble points out, your MNK isn't prefect either, so I guess that kind of kicks you off the elitist's level and into the lower class citizens because there aren't middle class in your opinion.

Why would you disrepect your Vere with a Merman to TP in? Really, merman? Come on, you can do better than that. Can't get your hands on at least Aesir? No Ocelomeh Headpiece +1? And you really TP in that AF3+2 body? Where's your Ocelomeh Harness+1 to pair up with that headpiece for TP? Where's your Toci? Should I go on? [using your logic that ppl's gear that they have on in ffxiah is their TP gear set is just lol].

What kinda idiot TPs in Toci's with Impetus up?

Regardless, if the two of you think "Perfection" is what's required or even expected of people, you're lost causes. Even the most elite don't expect tangible perfection. The average is just so bad that even with lowered standards they're still terrible.

That doesn't excuse settling for less or being content with crap, though. You can't achieve perfection, but by chasing perfection you attain greatness.

Scribbles is also highly underestimating the event. It takes a hell of a lot of luck for even an elite group to hit 100. No gimps are going to hit it, period. Ever. I don't care if that never changes.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I hope that War gear on AH is tolling too then, because it's a bad tp set, a even worse ws set, and you shouldn't be idling in that junk either.

Uther's grip is a pretty clear indicator if you ask me, who trolls in -inv gear that has to be kept on?

[Dreamin]

I hope that War gear on AH is tolling too then, because it's a bad tp set, a even worse ws set, and you shouldn't be idling in that junk either.

Uther's grip is a pretty clear indicator if you ask me, who trolls in -inv gear that has to be kept on?

I'll entertain you with an answer:

my war is a wip, just literally finished it 3 weeks ago because I got bored of VW since Pil never puts out. what you see there is my throw together stuff for skilling mostly. plus I've said already, I'll never claim to have perfect gears. I dont know about others, but I like to cap my skills before I actually even think about what gears I really want/can-afford for the job (all of them are tradeoffs since I have so many jobs that I both enjoy and actually used).

I welcome any gear suggestions for WAR but that discussion would probably be more appropriate in the WAR forum then in here where the issue is Nyzul Isle Unchart.

[Kimya]

Now that we've argued over who is gimped and who is not and who deserves better gear than who... -_-

An additional suggestion to make the event "easier" or at least to make floor 100 more obtainable than 0.000001% of the time without hacks:

- Jumps go from 2-14 floors. Keeps the random factor, but the possibility of being able to travel more floors at least some of the time should make it easier to hit floor 100 more reliably. In the best case scenario: 1 --> 15 --> 29 --> 43 --> 57 --> 71 --> 85 --> 99 --> 100. That still requires you to clear at least 9 floors in a single run (as opposed to 12 under the current system in the best case scenario), but the likelihood of the best case scenario is still incredibly low. This should make it so that anyone who understands how to do Nyzul should be able to hit floor 60 consistently unless they run into extremely bad luck, and anyone who is decently geared should be able to consistently hit floor 80. Floor 100 will require luck on your side and a group that knows what they're doing.

For those who have been suggesting that the floor 20, 40, 60, 80, (100?) bosses drop TEs, how many boss floors are you usually hitting in a run? Unless you were hitting 2+ bosses in a run, I don't see how getting a 3-minute TE off one boss would make floor 100 that much more obtainable without extreme luck on your side considering most accounts that I've seen who haven't hinted at using exploits are still landing on floors 40-60. If the average is one boss per run before level 100, then I would assume a 5-10 minute TE would be more appropriate, although that could become completely broken if people managed to land on boss floors consistently and continue obtaining 5-10 minute TEs... Would be like an FPS survival game, but Nyzul style. <.<

Anyways, that is my two cents from yet another person who was *really* looking forward to the new Nyzul, but has been disappointed in its implementation. :)

[YJM5150]

Hello guys, I have to do regrettable information.
In a Japanese forum,the development team has said that
they are never going to change the specification of Neo Nyzul Isle
99% of things required for us is only just LUCK LUCK LUCK and LUCK.
We almost all Japanese players are getting angry very much
to this reply from the development team >:-(

[SpankWustler]

getting angry very much
to this reply from the development team >:-(

On the bright side, it's comforting to be reminded that some things transcend nations and cultures. I think "angry very much" is an excellent descriptor for how replies from the Development Bros often make people feel.

[Yinnyth]

Hello guys, I have to do regrettable information.
In a Japanese forum,the development team has said that
they are never going to change the specification of Neo Nyzul Isle
99% of things required for us is only just LUCK LUCK LUCK and LUCK.
We almost all Japanese players are getting angry very much
to this reply from the development team >:-(

"Like!"ed because I've always been curious as to how the Japanese players respond to things like this, but I'm too lazy to learn the language myself.

And I agree, the event is too heavily based on luck. I'm not saying it should be easier to the point where any aby-leveled idiot could farm a whole set of floor 100 gear, I'm saying skill is not a big enough factor in Nyzul. Even the best players in the world could wind up on a boss floor with white magic restricted.

[Karbuncle]

Its comforting to know everyone is pissed about this. I'm slightly less pissed as I once was, But still upset theres apparently a large uproar from NA and JP and they're adamantly refusing to change it.

I mean, the floor 100 Armor is really fking broken, So it makes sense to be rare... but...

[Gukumatz]

In Japan, SE will hold an event in June.

If you guys can participate in that event, then what do you say　or act for developers?

[Mirabelle]

The FFXI middle class is so insignificantly small that it really makes no difference one way or another. The vast majority of players are either good or terrible. The gradation exists, but it is underutilized and has very little bearing on practical discourse.

Most people think they fall into the middle when, in reality, they're not. Example #1: The guy who claims to be "Above average" earlier in this thread while wearing AF3+1 feet and Artemis Medal in a hodge-podge TP set on BLU.

Disagree, entirely. I think the middle class predominates. You would agree that most elitists are generally done with Abyssea. Yet those zones are filled with folks every night I'm on. When we run our empy group, most of the competition is coming from groups like ours of average geared players killing the same mobs. When I farm in Dyna, its also filled with average geared BST's and THF's. These people are all over, but the elitists never see them since they run so far ahead of the curve they never linger.

Sadly I have no way to formally prove this, although when SE published mission completion rate a few years back and most players hadn't completed Promies, it kind of told you something about where the majority of players are at.

[saevel]

Disagree, entirely. I think the middle class predominates. You would agree that most elitists are generally done with Abyssea. Yet those zones are filled with folks every night I'm on. When we run our empy group, most of the competition is coming from groups like ours of average geared players killing the same mobs. When I farm in Dyna, its also filled with average geared BST's and THF's. These people are all over, but the elitists never see them since they run so far ahead of the curve they never linger.

Sadly I have no way to formally prove this, although when SE published mission completion rate a few years back and most players hadn't completed Promies, it kind of told you something about where the majority of players are at.

You gotta remember he thinks if you don't have multiple emps then your one of the poor underclass. Thus for him and those like him, there is ~only~ them and no one else.

Most of this game is average players, that's the very definition of the word average.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Because it's impossible for average players to make an Empyrean weapon.

Oh wait.

[Greatguardian]

You gotta remember he thinks if you don't have multiple emps then your one of the poor underclass. Thus for him and those like him, there is ~only~ them and no one else.

Most of this game is average players, that's the very definition of the word average.

It's the opposite, actually.

It's not hard to be classified as a good player. It takes very little work to be at the top. It takes only basic gear, understanding, and attitude really. Nothing that's out of reach for anyone. It is so frustratingly simple that it boggles the mind how small a portion of the playerbase this is.

Mira and I simply have different definitions of middle class. Honestly, it's not hard to be in the relative upper class. At the same time, you absolutely do not get there by owning an Uther's Grip (Inventory -1 for everything, ever). The definition of bad player that most people use these days has nothing to do with not having the best gear, but rather having gear that is so mind-bogglingly stupid and/or having gear that could be good with very easy, very simple fixes that the player will never, ever do because their egos get in the way.

No one ever said middle class was average, however. Middle class is just that - middle class. The average in FFXI is most certainly awful. So what? Does that make it acceptable? Not in the slightest.

[Afania]

Mira and I simply have different definitions of middle class. Honestly, it's not hard to be in the relative upper class. At the same time, you absolutely do not get there by owning an Uther's Grip (Inventory -1 for everything, ever).

That's not true :p

Uther's grip is still the best grip for COR Last Stand(if you're using vulcan's) as far as I know, the only other option I know is Nguul when you /WAR, but you also lose QD dmg and racc. Or else which grip do you use for Last stand?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Was referring to having the grip on a melee DD job.

Assuming Wildfire I'm guessing Reaver's+1.

[Greatguardian]

That's not true :p

Uther's grip is still the best grip for COR Last Stand(if you're using vulcan's) as far as I know, the only other option I know is Nguul when you /WAR, but you also lose QD dmg and racc. Or else which grip do you use for Last stand?

Edit: Derp, fStr2 not fStr. Reaver Grip +1 is 1.7 WSC vs 1~2 fStr2. It's a less useful grip than Reaver overall, though, and useless for Wildfire.

[Fupafighter]

From my view...the event wasn't meant to hit floor 100 every run ffs lol... 80 is certainly achievable over and over.

[Fupafighter]

Oh and If you look at my gear, I'm an "average" player lol. I'm ranked like 350th on my server and I have 4 empyrians and decked out jobs...THATs average.

[Starry]

From my view...the event wasn't meant to hit floor 100 every run ffs lol... 80 is certainly achievable over and over.

'Over and over' is a relative term. Obviously it was designed to NOT get to 100 except by dumb luck - and that's the issue. The fact you aren't comprehending the simple term of 'progression' really shows that you are part of that average player base. It doesn't matter if you aren't supposed to reach there the grand majority of the time, so long as their is progression along the way; which there isn't. Obvious problem is obvious.

[Karbuncle]

It's the opposite, actually.

It's not hard to be classified as a good player. It takes very little work to be at the top. It takes only basic gear, understanding, and attitude really. Nothing that's out of reach for anyone. It is so frustratingly simple that it boggles the mind how small a portion of the playerbase this is.

Mira and I simply have different definitions of middle class. Honestly, it's not hard to be in the relative upper class. At the same time, you absolutely do not get there by owning an Uther's Grip (Inventory -1 for everything, ever). The definition of bad player that most people use these days has nothing to do with not having the best gear, but rather having gear that is so mind-bogglingly stupid and/or having gear that could be good with very easy, very simple fixes that the player will never, ever do because their egos get in the way.

No one ever said middle class was average, however. Middle class is just that - middle class. The average in FFXI is most certainly awful. So what? Does that make it acceptable? Not in the slightest.

Going to pretty much have to agree 100% With GG. The difference between lower class and middle class in FFXI is basically the "DERP and/or Lazy" Division line.

Lets say, You're wearing average AH or EX gear (Emp+1) But you're still capping haste or close too it, Decent Accessories, and a non-emp/relic weapon, and use gear swaps for at least TP and WS. , and using your gear effectively, and always willing to take advice - You're middle class.

Lets say, You're wearing Empyrean+1, Not capping Haste, and Full-timing one set of armor, and b*tch about how much of a life you have and how its your 12.95 when people offer advice, You're Lower Class, Because you done crossed the DERP line.

One thing i want to point out, i REALLY agree with GG on the whole "Ego i the way" Bit. Because, Ego is the biggest thing that keeps stupids stupid. its not even about what gear you do or don't have, Its about how intelligently you use what you have at your disposal. If you don't own Empyrean+1/+2 Armor, or some of the best options, and can only pick off AH? Its about what you chose.

Life is made up of a thousand choices, Its the choice you make that defines you. "Someones being a dick about my gear" you have 2 choices "Go off on them, pull RL Card, Babble" or "Thank them for the advice and move on". Ego generally pulls you to the First option, But you should take the second one, Just because they're an ass doesn't mean you should be.

Now, Given multiple Choice, You're a fresh 99 THF, and you have 500k, and the AH is your only option, what do you buy? The correct answer is:
Brego Helm, Aurore Body, Dusk Gloves, Aurore Pants, Aurore Feet.

If your budget was higher...
Ocelom/+1 head, Ocelom/+1 Body, Brego/Noh Mitts, Aurore Pants, dusk+1/Sune-atethings Feet.

Basically, Its the line between using the best of what you can get, and just being stupid/lazy. If you purchased Aurore Head or Hands? You just got stupid. Because Dusk Gloves/+1 and Brego/Ocelomeh/+1 are on the AH, Offer more haste and better stats overall.

These are just a few examples. As GG Said, Every single person has the ability to be 'middle class'. It just takes the right attitude, a little research, and the willingness to learn. But attitude problems, unwilling to listen to advice, and ego are the biggest things that get in the way. Even when those offering you advice seem like ego-freaks or are being jerks, Don't snoop to their level.

Oh, And if you refer to everyone with good gear who offers advice as "Elitist" you're also lower class, Cause you've crossed over into "DERP" territory. There are plenty of Elitists in this game, But not everyone with a relic or mythic who tries to offer advice and knows math or gear selections is an Elitist.

[Afania]

Edit: Derp, fStr2 not fStr. Reaver Grip +1 is 1.7 WSC vs 1~2 fStr2. It's a less useful grip than Reaver overall, though, and useless for Wildfire.

4 x 0.5=2, plus 2 rattk, STR +4 grip should pull ahead of reaver +1. Last Stand is also way stronger than WF on T3 VW if done right,like 3k~4k+ LS v.s 2kish WF, and should be WS of choice on T3VW(I still don't know why everyone and their mother always love to spam WF on T3s, even on Qilin, when Last stand can do 1k~2k more, not really a whole lot less useful grip IMO.

[SpankWustler]

Disagree, entirely. I think the middle class predominates. You would agree that most elitists are generally done with Abyssea. Yet those zones are filled with folks every night I'm on. When we run our empy group, most of the competition is coming from groups like ours of average geared players killing the same mobs. When I farm in Dyna, its also filled with average geared BST's and THF's. These people are all over, but the elitists never see them since they run so far ahead of the curve they never linger.

Sadly I have no way to formally prove this, although when SE published mission completion rate a few years back and most players hadn't completed Promies, it kind of told you something about where the majority of players are at.

If most people in an area ate rocks when fresh vegetables were available just half-a-mile away, that wouldn't make rocks a prime example of "a moderately nourishing foodstuff". That would just mean the majority of people in that area ate a lot of rocks and broke a lot of teeth and took a lot of unpleasant poops.

There's a world of different between the performance of a bro who uses easily obtained gear to make a decent Haste set and a decent weaponskill set, and the performance of a bro who full-times whatever falls onto his head. Yet, the time and effort both put in isn't that different.

It doesn't take much time to figure out what kind of stuff to use and how to use it. You don't need any amount of in-game time or any amount of gil to know a Keen Ring is a better option in a TP set than a Spiral Ring, and a thus use that instead until you obtain an Epona's Ring, for example.

I think what the majority of people do in FFXI and what is average are two different things in terms of performance, although very similar in time and effort expended.

[Dreamin]

Oh and If you look at my gear, I'm an "average" player lol. I'm ranked like 350th on my server and I have 4 empyrians and decked out jobs...THATs average.

oh wait, ranking 350 on the server with 4 emp makes you elite??? Holy cow, I'm going to jump for joy cuz I'm now elite!!! Wooooot call the press!!! I'm upsetting the whole entire elitist mindset here oh noooooooo....

Please ppl, it's as if ffxiah ranking means anything. lol

I know ppl who is ranked in the top 100 without any R/E/M, so what does that mean really?

People (idiots) who keep insisting crap like this is just so idiotic.


Majority of the people who are complainting about this event understood that SE is trying to make Nyzul Isle hard in a way so that Floor 80/100 isn't your every run possibility. However, by doing so, they have made 100 impossible to get to without the use of 3rd party tools. That's what we wanted fixed. We want to make 100 possible without the use of ANY 3rd party tools you know for those that are on the consoles? For those that says consoles players shouldn't be able to achieve these because you have access to tools and they done, you're just idiots.

SE, stop making events that encourages ppl to cheat to be able to enjoy.

[Atoreis]

I would like to suggest small fix to nyzul isle so please hit the "like" to bring SE attention ( ofc you dont need to if you dont like to ^^ )


I would say exit option at lamp should be 2 steps. First should let you finish the event (timer stop, mobs disappear, cant go to next floor) and 2nd click should let you exit. This will prevent from losing drops because of time ends few seconds after killing the boss or/and ppl are dead and can't lot. Its a small fix but pretty important imo.

[Starry]

oh wait, ranking 350 on the server with 4 emp makes you elite??? Holy cow, I'm going to jump for joy cuz I'm now elite!!! Wooooot call the press!!! I'm upsetting the whole entire elitist mindset here oh noooooooo....

Please ppl, it's as if ffxiah ranking means anything. lol

I know ppl who is ranked in the top 100 without any R/E/M, so what does that mean really?

People (idiots) who keep insisting crap like this is just so idiotic.


Majority of the people who are complainting about this event understood that SE is trying to make Nyzul Isle hard in a way so that Floor 80/100 isn't your every run possibility. However, by doing so, they have made 100 impossible to get to without the use of 3rd party tools. That's what we wanted fixed. We want to make 100 possible without the use of ANY 3rd party tools you know for those that are on the consoles? For those that says consoles players shouldn't be able to achieve these because you have access to tools and they done, you're just idiots.

SE, stop making events that encourages ppl to cheat to be able to enjoy.

has nothing to do with 3rd party tools for many of us bro, has to deal with taking gameplay out of the hands of the players; and injecting derpderpluck as a gameplay mechanic. It's like if 3 years ago they decided that occasionally when breaking an hourglass to handout it would randomly shatter and waste your money/time rather then splitting. Luck based gameplay =/= fun.

We can all accept luck based drops, not luck based mechanics. Progression + Removal of stupid floor jumps = a 100x better event.

[Tsuneo]

I don't see how third party tools has nothing to with the problem. Even with third party tools, it's a crapshoot making it to 100. Now remove third party tools from the equation. Even with impeccable teamwork, it's going to be even more of a crapshoot making it to 100.

[Fupafighter]

oh wait, ranking 350 on the server with 4 emp makes you elite??? Holy cow, I'm going to jump for joy cuz I'm now elite!!! Wooooot call the press!!! I'm upsetting the whole entire elitist mindset here oh noooooooo....

Please ppl, it's as if ffxiah ranking means anything. lol

I know ppl who is ranked in the top 100 without any R/E/M, so what does that mean really?

People (idiots) who keep insisting crap like this is just so idiotic.


Majority of the people who are complainting about this event understood that SE is trying to make Nyzul Isle hard in a way so that Floor 80/100 isn't your every run possibility. However, by doing so, they have made 100 impossible to get to without the use of 3rd party tools. That's what we wanted fixed. We want to make 100 possible without the use of ANY 3rd party tools you know for those that are on the consoles? For those that says consoles players shouldn't be able to achieve these because you have access to tools and they done, you're just idiots.

SE, stop making events that encourages ppl to cheat to be able to enjoy.

I have an idea....suck less then lol. People are capable of doing it without Hacks noob...Just get better and understand the game more and quit your bitchin. And i was talking about me being a casual player...how in anyway was i saying "im elite".

[Tsuneo]

I have an idea....suck less then lol. People are capable of doing it without Hacks noob...Just get better and understand the game more and quit your bitchin. And i was talking about me being a casual player...how in anyway was i saying "im elite".
There's no way anyone is getting to 100 without hacks, and the chance of getting 100 with hacks is still unlikely. I haven't even heard of anyone making it to 100 hacks or not, so you can stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

[Fupafighter]

There's no way anyone is getting to 100 without hacks, and the chance of getting 100 with hacks is still unlikely. I haven't even heard of anyone making it to 100 hacks or not, so you can stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

Read the thread lol. A few people have made it to 100... Man you guys just aren't getting the point. Yes floor 100 is meant to be luck based because look how good the gear is lol. progression just means they would have to make the drop rates so terrible like VW lol... Floor 80 gear is still good.

[Tsuneo]

Read the thread lol. A few people have made it to 100... Man you guys just aren't getting the point. Yes floor 100 is meant to be luck based because look how good the gear is lol. progression just means they would have to make the drop rates so terrible like VW lol... Floor 80 gear is still good.
Answer me this how many of those people did it with no assistance from third party shit? Unless you're willing to cheat, your odds of getting to 100 decrease a great deal, and that's my biggest gripe with the event not the luck based factor.

[Fupafighter]

GDI you people with your floor 100 lol. Theres a reason the gear is so good....Because it's hard to get lol. And how do you know they cheated? From what i saw...their setups were pretty good and they used sch 2 hour for every run that looked promising. You're in denial.

[Tsuneo]

GDI you people with your floor 100 lol. Theres a reason the gear is so good....Because it's hard to get lol. And how do you know they cheated? From what i saw...their setups were pretty good and they used sch 2 hour for every run that looked promising. You're in denial.
You're a moron is more like it. You seem to confuse difficulty with luck. There is nothing hard about Neo Nyzul. RNG =/= difficulty.

[Fupafighter]

Why don't you guys actually keep trying the event for say a month or two longer like EVERY other new event instead of trashing on it. Hell nyzle Isle is one of my favorites because it's so fast and you have to work together otherwise you FAIL. I think SE leaned more towards the "you can have 80 gear with good groups" and 100 was meant to be for the really lucky...I personally have no issue with the event.

[Glamdring]

As a follow up to my previous post, I received some information from the development team in regards to the overall concept of Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region as well as planned adjustments.

Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region Concept
Just as was mentioned previously, Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region is battle content that is geared towards a 6 person party of level 99 players.

In contrast to Nyzul Isle Investigation where the strategy revolved around 5 floor increments, Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region’s degree of challenge has been set quite difficult. This is also the reason why every time you enter you start from the first floor. We’d like players to set their floor goals based on their strengths, meaning a combination of level, gear, knowledge, and experience.

In order to progress further, in addition to fire power and battle strategy, luck plays a role as well as taking risks to get to the next floor and aim for good rewards.

As a general guideline, the system has been balanced in such a way so that once you have gotten used to it, you should be able to reach floor 60. If you try really hard, you can get to floor 80, and then if luck is on your side you will able to reach floor 100.

Depending on the situation there of course might be cases where you will not be able to reach your target floor and there is no guarantee that you will reach floor 80/100 each time. This is why the rewards become more attractive as you reach higher floors.

Based on the above, we do not have any plans at the moment to ease the difficulty. In the event that we did reduce the difficulty, we would also have to lower the stats on the reward items.
　
For Nyzul Isle Investigation, depending on which piece of equipment (slot) you are after, you would select the according floor progression. However, for Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region you are trying to get to the highest floor possible to get the equipment with the higher stats.

The further you get floor wise, more attractive items will be dropped by monsters (※) you encounter and you will receive a large amount of tokens. Also, as opportunities to defeat NMs increases, the opportunities to obtain alexandrite will also increase.
※This goes for non-boss NMs as well. (Example: Behemoth spawning on a non-boss floor)
　
　
Making it easier to continuously challenge Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region

1. Cost of Temporary Items
For Nyzul Isle Investigation, the idea was to not worry so much about temporary items when going through non-boss floors, and to have a good amount of them for when you do fight bosses.
On the other hand, for Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region, it’s hard to discern when you are just going to go through regular floors and when you are going to fight bosses, so each time you have to grab a large amount of temporary items, just in case.

As a result, in the case you don’t get through very many floors the possibility of you wasting tokens is high, and we have been noticing this happening more than we expected.

With that said, we will be looking into reducing the amount of tokens needed to purchase temporary items.
　
2. Reward Obtainment Methods
In regards to reward items being obtaining by defeating bosses, we are looking into adding some new elements. The below 2 reasons are why there are difficulties obtaining rewards as drop items.

•Element of challenge has become harder and there is no guarantee that you will able to fight a boss each time.
•There are many types of reward items and the rate of obtaining the type or piece you want is low.

After considering these two points, if you are able to reach boss floors consistently, we’re thinking about making it so you’ll be able to obtain one desired item from amongst the items that can drop off a boss, which would be separate from the items that also dropped from that battle.

※This is a reward that depends on you clearing that specific floor, so other floors will not count and you will not be able to freely select rewards from other floors.
※Since no methods have been implemented to tally clears, when this system is implemented, previous clears will not be counted.

Cam, Cam, Cam.... please let the Dev team know the floor progress mechanic is preceived as complete and total BS. Achievement should never be based solely on complete and total dumb luck. If everyone's been keeping up with the comments players do not mind having to work for the rewards; we're willing to do that and in fact many of us WANT that. The simple fact is however that it should be driven by the work put into it, not a "work your ass off then roll the dice"; that's gambling and I'd rather do that at a casino where they pay out real-life cash to match the cash I worked my ass off to gamble with in the first place. Make it something like "kill an entire floor in a 20 level range area in less than 4 minutes to unlock the next 20 level zone, take over 6 minutes on any floor and be routed back to the previous 20 level range area". That way if you are targeting a certain gear level you CAN target that gear level. You also have to keep going all-out for the entire run to have any chance of beating an area boss in the time limit. Luck will still be a factor, just because we've gotten to level 100 doesn't mean that the RIGHT level 100 piece will drop, although hopefully a balanced party will have SOMEONE that needs the piece, AND if you do the fight right there's no reason it should amount to a guaranteed victory just by getting there.

Seriously, I like Nyzul, but under this design? I'm not going to bother wasting my time if all my efforts amount to squat. Even Voidwatch with its pathetic drop rates is better than this-at least if you do the work there you will always GET to the fight-Nyzul if you do all the work you stand a very real chance of being rewarded with being 30 minutes older, and nothing else.

[Karbuncle]

Why don't you guys actually keep trying the event for say a month or two longer like EVERY other new event instead of trashing on it. Hell nyzle Isle is one of my favorites because it's so fast and you have to work together otherwise you FAIL. I think SE leaned more towards the "you can have 80 gear with good groups" and 100 was meant to be for the really lucky...I personally have no issue with the event.

My reason personally is, This event is designed to drag out as long as possible by creating as many artificial walls as possible:
Random Drop Rates
Tag limitations
Lamp Floors
??? Jumps
Overshooting 100.

Most of the above have appearances in other events, But its about the combination of it all that disgusts me about Nyzul. Its not an event designed to be fun, its an event designed at its core to drag on as long as absolutely possible and offering very little reward for your effort, and dangling a shiny carrot in front of you.

You wonder why the Floor 100 Armor is so unbelievably amazing? its because SE is banking on the idea no matter how ridiculous their event is, If they dangle a shiny enough carrot, you'll do it. That disgusts me.

Its not that some can't find fun in it, Its just the majority of us realize how abysmal this event is. Its literally the lowest of the low when it comes to creativity and enjoyment. Its a Carbon-Copy replacement of Nyzul Isle, they didn't even bother reskinning anything or even re-arranging the mobs that appear on each floor. Its the same mob families and layouts, right down to the random-appearing Dahak. I'm personally shocked they even bothered to add new NMs.

But in reality, Its a lazily created event clearly intended to keep us busy grabbing for that shiny 100 carrot. Further proven by their adamant standpoint on not fixing it and it being designed with a "Shoot for mediocrity and wish upon a star" attitude. You're suppose to go "well, We wont ever reach realistically floor 100, So lets try for 80, and maybe one day we'll get lucky!".

I hate that style of gameplay. Its An event designed to influence people to aim for mediocrity, its why i personally can't enjoy the event. The thought alone that the dev team would actually say "Its designed for you to reach 60, and If you happen to Shit lucky charms, You might see floor 100 long enough to time out, or overshoot it entirely!"

The people still trying this event have my props, They're clearly dedicated and skilled players who have far more patience and will than i Do. Theres actually 1 group on Asura particularly i'm rooting for. But this is simply my opinion. I cannot bring myself to enjoy an event where, in their own words, it is designed to aim for the middle, and hope for the best.

So and the other 38 people across all servers who enjoy the event are free to enjoy it. The facts its deader than Chocobo Racing in most times of the day is all the proof I need that this event is a failure, And i did give it a fair shot.

and for clarity, I F**king loved Old-School Nyzul, I loved killing Fafnir, Cerberus, etc on the floors, I enjoyed everything about it. I just can't bring myself to enjoy new nyzul simply because I find myself too caught up in how disgustingly obvious it is that its a stall. It shits on the name "nyzul isle" and has ruined a once fun event.

Again, Strictly in my opinion. you're more than free to enjoy it, and i hope you reach 100 some day and get the armor you want, and nothing bad happens like, No drop, or timing out.

[Tsuneo]

I don't like the mentality that we're just going to stop at 80 either. When has the community ever settled for less than best? I'm aware that some people amongst our community settle for less, but it's a bit naive to assume we all will.

[Glamdring]

I don't like the mentality that we're just going to stop at 80 either. When has the community ever settled for less than best? I'm aware that some people amongst our community settle for less, but it's a bit naive to assume we all will.

actually, I can DEFINATELY see people targeting 80 or whatever other level. There are plenty of people-even those considering themselves "elite"-who don't wear a level 99 piece by choice, because a lower-level piece actually has bonuses that mesh better with how a job is played. The most obvious example was a scorpion harness +1; people who had relic were still full-timing the SH because it simply did more for them even if they had the relic +1 body for their job. It's even more likely if they are targeting a lower-level drop for a macro piece. I'm not a gear-swapping player for the most part but I know plenty who are-if the level 80 piece is the best to boost x you better believe somebody's gonna target it.

For that matter, I know some people that are so snobbish about their gear that they would try to get a level 80 piece just to carry them to their 89 AF3+2 body they already have, which makes NO sense under current play since you're going to go 80-89 in about 45 minutes spamming Dominion ops. Trust me, it'll happen...

[Tsuneo]

All the gear is level 99 regardless of the floor it comes from. Also, your example isn't quite accurate. Yes there is instances where lower level gear will beat higher level gear, but these gear sets are just different tiers of the same gear. The floor 100 gear will never beaten by a previous tier because the 100 gear is basically the previous tier with better stats.

[Starry]

actually, I can DEFINATELY see people targeting 80 or whatever other level. There are plenty of people-even those considering themselves "elite"-who don't wear a level 99 piece by choice, because a lower-level piece actually has bonuses that mesh better with how a job is played. The most obvious example was a scorpion harness +1; people who had relic were still full-timing the SH because it simply did more for them even if they had the relic +1 body for their job. It's even more likely if they are targeting a lower-level drop for a macro piece. I'm not a gear-swapping player for the most part but I know plenty who are-if the level 80 piece is the best to boost x you better believe somebody's gonna target it.



What....the...f...did I just read. A relic user in a SH+1 is brain melting worthy. The dynamis and empyrean crap really made lousy players thing they are good.

Also you don't macro in gear? Your gimp plain and simple.

[Tsuneo]

Yeah, I only skimmed his post. I feel like there was more I could have responded to.

[Dreamin]

GDI you people with your floor 100 lol. Theres a reason the gear is so good....Because it's hard to get lol. And how do you know they cheated? From what i saw...their setups were pretty good and they used sch 2 hour for every run that looked promising. You're in denial.

How we know they cheated? Just go read the setup on the BG forum.

[Nala]

just wanted to point out AH only shows fupa for having a twash and not his ranking, and honestly to only be ranked 350 with 4 empys?

[Fupafighter]

just wanted to point out AH only shows fupa for having a twash and not his ranking, and honestly to only be ranked 350 with 4 empys?

Lol yes...You have to have the 80 version for like a day or until ffxiah.com scans your account before it notices you have a empy. so if you upgraded to 85 version before then (like i did on my other 3) it wont show.

[Glamdring]

Also you don't macro in gear? Your gimp plain and simple.

ok, I've read enough of this garbage on these forums. PvP, u and me anywhere, bring any job you choose and any gear you like, you will still lose. Skill trumps gear every time, and yes, in fact I am that good that I don't need to rely on gear swaps to cover mediocre play, I just do my job better than the other guy. the only thing that would beat me on my chosen jobs is skill AND gear, and I'm familiar with almost all the players with better gear on my server, none of them are better than I am, although some are as good (excepting rng, skilling/gearing that is still a work in progress since I play it just for a change of pace). enough of this, I hate bragging-either listening to it or doing it myself

I do macro a few items, ele staves and instruments on bard, buffoon collar on pup, different ammo on rng, but no, for the most part I don't bother. I have this little measure of success I pay attention to: who's standing at the end of the fight, me or the mob. If it's me then I'm successful.

Incidentally, if you don't remember the days of people playing in SH+1 or Hauby or the like over relic then you either weren't around at 75 cap or you weren't paying attention. The general consensus on every forum was that most relic or AF sucked. Personally, I say if you can get the job done in it then free gear works, but whatever floats your boat. But yes, many people used lower-level gear as their base slot piece because it functioned better than the stuff that was available at cap in actual game play. In fact, they still do. Example, my thf knife and relic +2 hands, yes, i have stuff for the slots that will do higher damage but if I'm on my thief at all it's because I'm after a drop so I use the relic +2 hands and my thf knife on the off chance that TH actually works as claimed (I have sincere doubts about any tier above 3) and not macroing in other gear means i have 2 extra slots for the drops if they actually happen. If I just wanted to do damage I'd come on one of my jobs that hits harder and/or kills faster, like bst, pup, rng or dnc.

[Scribble]

Just go read the setup on the BG forum.

Herein lies the problem, and is something that has troubled me about XI and the way the job system works; There shouldn't be a [insert setup for [insert event here] here] for everything. I understand that it's highly unlikely for any company to balance a game so that the difficulty remains the same regardless of setup, but when you keep introducing events that follow this pattern it becomes a problem.

There will always be cookie-cutter setups and there will always be groups that won't be able to clear regardless of gear, skill, ect. but any reasonable setup (read: x number of melee DD, y number of ranged/magic DD, z number of support/heals) with good communication should be able to clear content when it's developed properly.


PvP, u and me anywhere, bring any job you choose and any gear you like, you will still lose.

There is a problem here with the event and not the players. Lets try to stay on topic here. No one really gives a fuck what you can do in brenner.

[Tsuneo]

ok, I've read enough of this garbage on these forums. PvP, u and me anywhere, bring any job you choose and any gear you like, you will still lose. Skill trumps gear every time, and yes, in fact I am that good that I don't need to rely on gear swaps to cover mediocre play, I just do my job better than the other guy. the only thing that would beat me on my chosen jobs is skill AND gear, and I'm familiar with almost all the players with better gear on my server, none of them are better than I am, although some are as good (excepting rng, skilling/gearing that is still a work in progress since I play it just for a change of pace). enough of this, I hate bragging-either listening to it or doing it myself

I do macro a few items, ele staves and instruments on bard, buffoon collar on pup, different ammo on rng, but no, for the most part I don't bother. I have this little measure of success I pay attention to: who's standing at the end of the fight, me or the mob. If it's me then I'm successful.

Incidentally, if you don't remember the days of people playing in SH+1 or Hauby or the like over relic then you either weren't around at 75 cap or you weren't paying attention. The general consensus on every forum was that most relic or AF sucked. Personally, I say if you can get the job done in it then free gear works, but whatever floats your boat. But yes, many people used lower-level gear as their base slot piece because it functioned better than the stuff that was available at cap in actual game play. In fact, they still do. Example, my thf knife and relic +2 hands, yes, i have stuff for the slots that will do higher damage but if I'm on my thief at all it's because I'm after a drop so I use the relic +2 hands and my thf knife on the off chance that TH actually works as claimed (I have sincere doubts about any tier above 3) and not macroing in other gear means i have 2 extra slots for the drops if they actually happen. If I just wanted to do damage I'd come on one of my jobs that hits harder and/or kills faster, like bst, pup, rng or dnc.
http://www.8bitbrigade.com/images/smilies/954-not-sure-if-serious.jpg

[Fupafighter]

Ya PvP has nothing to do with being able to understand nyzle isle bahahaha.

[Monchat]

Incidentally, if you don't remember the days of people playing in SH+1 or Hauby or the like over relic then you either weren't around at 75 cap or you weren't paying attention. The general consensus on every forum was that most relic or AF sucked. Personally, I say if you can get the job done in it then free gear works, but whatever floats your boat. But yes, many people used lower-level gear as their base slot piece because it functioned better than the stuff that was available at cap in actual game play. In fact, they still do. Example, my thf knife and relic +2 hands, yes, i have stuff for the slots that will do higher damage but if I'm on my thief at all it's because I'm after a drop so I use the relic +2 hands and my thf knife on the off chance that TH actually works as claimed (I have sincere doubts about any tier above 3) and not macroing in other gear means i have 2 extra slots for the drops if they actually happen. If I just wanted to do damage I'd come on one of my jobs that hits harder and/or kills faster, like bst, pup, rng or dnc.

1- you do not macro you fail. Do not ned to use 3rd party tools to macro, then game lets you macro a whole set in 3 block, of 6 gear at once. Someone that doesnt have at least TP and WS sets on his DD is medicore.

2-yeah you can do almost every content in this game with fail jobs and gimps. at 75 you could do Odin with 36 gimps and a bit of luck, there were videos of 18 gimps in full AF killing ultima/Omega and so on. If they were not gimps though, they would only need 18 people for odin and 6 for ultima/omega, thus multiplying by 3 their efficiency. Thats good for casuals, isn't it? A casual doesn't have a lot of time to play. Let's not mix casuals and gimps too. A casual is not necessary a gimp. at 75 my salvage LS had half the membres casuals who literally only loged in for salvage and assaults. And they were good. SOmeone who plays more than 10 hour a week and don't gear swap is a gimp hardcore.


3-

If I just wanted to do damage I'd come on one of my jobs that hits harder and/or kills faster, like bst, pup, rng or dnc.
Anyone who plays this game seriously knows that Hit hard =/= kill fast. The fact you think bst pup dnc or rng are good DD says it all. SE has stated over and over that they dont want to unfail those jobs.

[Fupafighter]

Lets not drag dancer down lol! Dancer may not be good for other endgame content, but for nyzle isle, i think dnc can hold its own if they have twashtar.

[Nala]

Lol yes...You have to have the 80 version for like a day or until ffxiah.com scans your account before it notices you have a empy. so if you upgraded to 85 version before then (like i did on my other 3) it wont show.

guildwork client. nuff said.

[Fupafighter]

guildwork client. nuff said.

Don't care enough to do guildwork lol. And they were asking me for money when i did try to activate it...so ill pass.

[Dazusu]

Nyzul Isle is amazing. Lower the amount of random floors jumped to by 4 though. 1-5 floors is more than enough to make F100

[Karbuncle]

Nyzul Isle is amazing. Lower the amount of random floors jumped to by 4 though. 1-5 floors is more than enough to make F100

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4083/5055032357_69d1d1be72_z.jpg

[SpankWustler]

My reason personally is, This event is designed to drag out as long as possible by creating as many artificial walls as possible:
Random Drop Rates
Tag limitations
Lamp Floors
??? Jumps
Overshooting 100.

This is my issue, also.

There's no single element of Neo-Nyzul that I can point to and call bad on it's own. I also understand why some of those things are present. When all these things meant to stretch out content come together, however, it's just stretched too thin for me.

The event isn't nearly as demented as some people are claiming, and I'd rather have this kind of low stuff attainment rate than the non-malleable low stuff attainment rate Voidwatch offered if those are the only options. Still, I'd be pretty happy if lamp floors were just removed (no practical reason, I just find them boring) and it were made impossible to overshoot floor 100.

[Camate]

Greetings!

I’d like to share a message from Director Mizuki Ito in regards to upcoming changes to Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region.



Hello. Director Mizuki Ito here.

Thanks so much for your feedback!
Based on feedback we received from actual play, we are planning to make the below changes.

• Lower token cost of temporary items
This was already conveyed previously.
　
• Implementation of a “stopper” feature
After entering, we will be changing the system so that you will be able to set which floor you would like to aim for: 20/40/60/80/100.
While we will be removing the feature where you can go past your destination floor, once you reach the destination floor and fight the notorious monster you will no longer be able to progress to the next floor.
　
• Key item/equipment exchange system
This is the system that I mentioned previously where if you clear a boss floor a certain amount of times, you will be able to obtain an item of your choice from that same boss.
Meaning that if you defeat the notorious monster on floor 20 above a certain number of times, you will be eligible to receive one of the possible rewards for floor 20.
　
We are also currently looking into the direction of obtaining the stronger equipment through this method. For example, if you are able to defeat the notorious monster on floor 20 above a certain amount of times, you will be able to receive one of the possible rewards for floor 40.
　
In this case, the merits of aiming for floor 100 would become weak, so in the event that you defeat a notorious monster on floor 100, we are planning to make it possible to obtain one item from that floor by clearing it just one time.

[Monchat]

Greetings!

I’d like to share a message from Director Mizuki Ito in regards to upcoming changes to Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region.

Wow holy shit the devs listen~ Make that and the whole wever will be doing nyzul lol, this looks really good.

[Karbuncle]

Wow holy shit the devs listen~ Make that and the whole wever will be doing nyzul lol, this looks really good.

I concur. I'm literally happy with joy.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Wow holy shit the devs listen~ Make that and the whole wever will be doing nyzul lol, this looks really good.

Am I reading it wrong, it looks like they just did it so you can choose to go to floor 100 but you still need to go from floor 1, and it simply blocks going any higher? (floor 98~floor 4 I hate you.) Which I suppose is still better than it is.

[Karbuncle]

Am I reading it wrong, it looks like they just did it so you can choose to go to floor 100 but you still need to go from floor 1, and it simply blocks going any higher? (floor 98~floor 4 I hate you.) Which I suppose is still better than it is.

3 things.

1) We can't overshoot 100 Anymore, SO long as we choose 100 as our cap.
2) A "Upgrade" Tier system, Turning in X amount of Shitty (20) armor, into a level 40 piece, x Amount of 40 armor into a 60 piece
3) Beating Floor 100 Boss lets you select 1 piece of Floor 100 Armor, instead of random drop.

[FrankReynolds]

3 things.

1) We can't overshoot 100 Anymore, SO long as we choose 100 as our cap.
2) A "Upgrade" Tier system, Turning in X amount of Shitty (20) armor, into a level 40 piece, x Amount of 40 armor into a 60 piece
3) Beating Floor 100 Boss lets you select 1 piece of Floor 100 Armor, instead of random drop.

If I'm reading that correctly then this too:

4) if you select a lower floor (ie floor 80), you can spam the ??? option knowing that the floor you selected is the highest floor you will be taken to.

EDIT: this is very good news. I may actually log in again to try this.

[Dreamin]

3 things.

1) We can't overshoot 100 Anymore, SO long as we choose 100 as our cap.
2) A "Upgrade" Tier system, Turning in X amount of Shitty (20) armor, into a level 40 piece, x Amount of 40 armor into a 60 piece
3) Beating Floor 100 Boss lets you select 1 piece of Floor 100 Armor, instead of random drop.

Definitely an improvement over the exiting maddness. But on #2, I read it as there are 2 ways that they are thinking of.

Thinking 1:

Beat Floor Boss X times, pick 1 item from Floor Boss. So that you would have something like:

20 X times -> 1 item from 20.
40 Y times -> 1 item from 40.
60 Z times -> 1 item from 60.
80 M times -> 1 item from 80.
100 N times -> 1 item from 100.


Thinking 2 (more progression like to me) would be something along the lines of:

After beating the lower level Boss X number of times, you'll be allowed to pick an item from the Boss that is 1 incremental block higher. So that you have something like:

20 X times -> 1 item from 40.
40 Y times -> 1 item from 60.
60 Z times -> 1 item from 80.
80 M times -> 1 item from 100.
100 1 time -> 1 item from 100.

[Arek]

was really looking for an upgrade feature, so that is great. And the others options seems fine too. :)

[Atoreis]

2) A "Upgrade" Tier system, Turning in X amount of Shitty (20) armor, into a level 40 piece, x Amount of 40 armor into a 60 piece


Might be nitpicking but writing this like that would actually make it possible to get 100 armor spamming 20 floor enough times and that's not true here.

[Greatguardian]

Might be nitpicking but writing this like that would actually make it possible to get 100 armor spamming 20 floor enough times and that's not true here.

Aye, it's not technically the armor you turn in. Just the kills. So you can't get floor 100 armor from enough floor 20 spam, only floor 40 armor. If you want floor 100 armor, you have to either farm floor 80 a bunch or beat floor 100. Though if they implement the stopper system as is, floor 100 will actually be doable and since they are also allowing the trade of floor 100 kills to drops at a 1:1 ratio it's pretty much awesome.

[Falseliberty]

"We are also currently looking into the direction of obtaining the stronger equipment through this method. For example, if you are able to defeat the notorious monster on floor 20 above a certain amount of times, you will be able to receive one of the possible rewards for floor 40."

dear god this needs M bison or Jack Nicholson yes gif STAT

[Starry]

ok, I've read enough of this garbage on these forums. PvP, u and me anywhere, bring any job you choose and any gear you like, you will still lose. Skill trumps gear every time, and yes, in fact I am that good that I don't need to rely on gear swaps to cover mediocre play, I just do my job better than the other guy. the only thing that would beat me on my chosen jobs is skill AND gear, and I'm familiar with almost all the players with better gear on my server, none of them are better than I am, although some are as good (excepting rng, skilling/gearing that is still a work in progress since I play it just for a change of pace). enough of this, I hate bragging-either listening to it or doing it myself

I do macro a few items, ele staves and instruments on bard, buffoon collar on pup, different ammo on rng, but no, for the most part I don't bother. I have this little measure of success I pay attention to: who's standing at the end of the fight, me or the mob. If it's me then I'm successful.

Incidentally, if you don't remember the days of people playing in SH+1 or Hauby or the like over relic then you either weren't around at 75 cap or you weren't paying attention. The general consensus on every forum was that most relic or AF sucked. Personally, I say if you can get the job done in it then free gear works, but whatever floats your boat. But yes, many people used lower-level gear as their base slot piece because it functioned better than the stuff that was available at cap in actual game play. In fact, they still do. Example, my thf knife and relic +2 hands, yes, i have stuff for the slots that will do higher damage but if I'm on my thief at all it's because I'm after a drop so I use the relic +2 hands and my thf knife on the off chance that TH actually works as claimed (I have sincere doubts about any tier above 3) and not macroing in other gear means i have 2 extra slots for the drops if they actually happen. If I just wanted to do damage I'd come on one of my jobs that hits harder and/or kills faster, like bst, pup, rng or dnc.

Congratulations on showing your lack of gameplay knowledge with the community - commence shunning.

Side note: Treasure hunter has been significantly tested; either you haven't looked because your stupid/lazy or you lack reading comprehension to understand math heavy posts?

Bonus Note: Challenging anyone to PvP in any game shows lack of maturity and lack of game knowledge. Beating someone in PvP(much less FFXI PvP) means squat. Good try though bro.

[Karbuncle]

Might be nitpicking but writing this like that would actually make it possible to get 100 armor spamming 20 floor enough times and that's not true here.

Yah, sorry, I read it wrong.

ITs a "Beat X boss X times to Get 1 piece of the next floor up". So you can't spam floor 20 for a floor 100 piece, Floor 20 will only reward with floor 40 from this system, Floor 40 Will only allow 60, 60 to 80, 80 to 100, Etc.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Very awesome update :-)

[FrankReynolds]

"We are also currently looking into the direction of obtaining the stronger equipment through this method. For example, if you are able to defeat the notorious monster on floor 20 above a certain amount of times, you will be able to receive one of the possible rewards for floor 40."

dear god this needs M bison or Jack Nicholson yes gif STAT

http://i.qkme.me/36d12i.jpg

[Mindi]

good news indeed :)

looks like they just layed out the bait 1st to see if ppl do NYUR like it is and realized not enough care for it.. so they make plan b) and make it atleast POSSIBLE to reach a wanted floor and not overshot it and gain gear if you killed it enough times.

I really hope they'll make the way that you kill 80 x times to get a 80 or 100 item, and not just kill 80 x times and get a 80 item. For me it reads like its not decided yet which way they do it.

[Seankp]

Yah, sorry, I read it wrong.

ITs a "Beat X boss X times to Get 1 piece of the next floor up". So you can't spam floor 20 for a floor 100 piece, Floor 20 will only reward with floor 40 from this system, Floor 40 Will only allow 60, 60 to 80, 80 to 100, Etc.

Actually, the way I read it makes it seem more like Heroes Abyssea Trophy system. I wouldn't mind that at all. It would be a grind to get every piece you wanted, but it would be a progression method that would please everyone given time put into the event.

If you take the exact numbers from the trophy exchanging, it would take 16x Floor 20 to yield 1 KI for a floor 100 piece, or 80 runs for all 5 pieces or 240 runs for all 15. It would be less if people made it to floor 40/60/80, but it would all add up for progression and rewards that anyone would be able to obtain given enough time and dedication and removing the luck factor.

[Karbuncle]

Actually, the way I read it makes it seem more like Heroes Abyssea Trophy system. I wouldn't mind that at all. It would be a grind to get every piece you wanted, but it would be a progression method that would please everyone given time put into the event.

If you take the exact numbers from the trophy exchanging, it would take 16x Floor 20 to yield 1 KI for a floor 100 piece, or 80 runs for all 5 pieces or 240 runs for all 15. It would be less if people made it to floor 40/60/80, but it would all add up for progression and rewards that anyone would be able to obtain given enough time and dedication and removing the luck factor.

The idea is nice, But frankly Floor 100 Armor is really broken, and floor 20 Is so easy Idiots could do it, you could probably 3 man a Floor 20 with perfect consistancy, even if they had to do it 80 times, that's too easy for the level of epic the floor 100 Armor is.

The idea of 20 Can only be 40, 40 can only be 60, and so forth, Seems to work. You still have to work hard (Floor 80~) if you want floor 100 armor, And so forth.

Who knows though, If it was a 5:1 Trade, It might work. Its tough. I don't envy them in their job to balance this out.

[Quetzacoatl]

Greetings!

I’d like to share a message from Director Mizuki Ito in regards to upcoming changes to Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b244/FenreyVarnFFXI/Outside%20FFXI/AishaisPleased.jpg

[Greatguardian]

Actually, the way I read it makes it seem more like Heroes Abyssea Trophy system. I wouldn't mind that at all. It would be a grind to get every piece you wanted, but it would be a progression method that would please everyone given time put into the event.

If you take the exact numbers from the trophy exchanging, it would take 16x Floor 20 to yield 1 KI for a floor 100 piece, or 80 runs for all 5 pieces or 240 runs for all 15. It would be less if people made it to floor 40/60/80, but it would all add up for progression and rewards that anyone would be able to obtain given enough time and dedication and removing the luck factor.

Screwwwwwwwwwwww that. Straight up.

Allowing people to trade up 1 tier is plenty. It still requires that a group hit floor 80 consistently at the absolute minimum in order to get floor 100 armor. This is perfectly doable without any third party tools whatsoever, and I am completely okay with this.

[Alhanelem]

• Implementation of a “stopper” feature
After entering, we will be changing the system so that you will be able to set which floor you would like to aim for: 20/40/60/80/100.
While we will be removing the feature where you can go past your destination floor, once you reach the destination floor and fight the notorious monster you will no longer be able to progress to the next floor.What's the purpose of this? so that you can't accidentally go past a floor you specifically want to go to?

[Karbuncle]

What's the purpose of this? so that you can't accidentally go past a floor you specifically want to go to?

Yes. Seemed kind of obvious.

There have been a few groups who have made it to floor 100, Only to over shoot it (I.E going form floor 94 to 3). The "Stopper" Is there to put a "Maximum Limit" on where to go.

They're likely putting it in place for floor 100, To stop the wrap around. Adding in floor 20/40/60/80 Stopper is probably for symmetry.

[Lynchilles]

ok, I've read enough of this garbage on these forums. PvP, u and me anywhere, bring any job you choose and any gear you like, you will still lose. Skill trumps gear every time, and yes, in fact I am that good that I don't need to rely on gear swaps to cover mediocre play, I just do my job better than the other guy. the only thing that would beat me on my chosen jobs is skill AND gear, and I'm familiar with almost all the players with better gear on my server, none of them are better than I am, although some are as good (excepting rng, skilling/gearing that is still a work in progress since I play it just for a change of pace). enough of this, I hate bragging-either listening to it or doing it myself

I do macro a few items, ele staves and instruments on bard, buffoon collar on pup, different ammo on rng, but no, for the most part I don't bother. I have this little measure of success I pay attention to: who's standing at the end of the fight, me or the mob. If it's me then I'm successful.

Incidentally, if you don't remember the days of people playing in SH+1 or Hauby or the like over relic then you either weren't around at 75 cap or you weren't paying attention. The general consensus on every forum was that most relic or AF sucked. Personally, I say if you can get the job done in it then free gear works, but whatever floats your boat. But yes, many people used lower-level gear as their base slot piece because it functioned better than the stuff that was available at cap in actual game play. In fact, they still do. Example, my thf knife and relic +2 hands, yes, i have stuff for the slots that will do higher damage but if I'm on my thief at all it's because I'm after a drop so I use the relic +2 hands and my thf knife on the off chance that TH actually works as claimed (I have sincere doubts about any tier above 3) and not macroing in other gear means i have 2 extra slots for the drops if they actually happen. If I just wanted to do damage I'd come on one of my jobs that hits harder and/or kills faster, like bst, pup, rng or dnc.

Omg... this is comedy GOLD! You, sir, are a genius. Bravo.

[Dreamin]

Screwwwwwwwwwwww that. Straight up.

Allowing people to trade up 1 tier is plenty. It still requires that a group hit floor 80 consistently at the absolute minimum in order to get floor 100 armor. This is perfectly doable without any third party tools whatsoever, and I am completely okay with this.

I have to agree here. 1 Tier trade up definitely would lessen the randomless of having to try to hit that lucky roll of 7-9 on every floor jump to get to Floor 100 without the use of tools and at the same time keep the event challenging. Now, just pray that SE doesn't make X = 1000 like the freakin metal upgrade.

[Sargent]

This is a fantastic adjustment, you'll be able to farm the floor that your group can reliably hit (in a static you can identify this quickly), and then try for the next tier. It actually offers a loose form of progression whilst not making it easy mode.

[cidbahamut]

I like how being able to overshoot floor 100 was considered a feature. It amuses me quite a bit.

[SpankWustler]

Greetings!

I’d like to share a message from Director Mizuki Ito in regards to upcoming changes to Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region.

Those changes sound like the perfect middle ground. Perfect.

http://www.gdirectory.org/articleimages/good-chef.png

[Karbuncle]

I wonder if they'll drop the ball on this like the VW Ticket system

[cidbahamut]

I wonder if they'll drop the ball on this like the VW Ticket system

They wouldn't be SE if they didn't.

[SpankWustler]

I wonder if they'll drop the ball on this like the VW Ticket system

I had the same thought roughly two seconds after I posted. I guess I should open up Paint.net and make a version of the chef I posted earlier holding a bottle of poison, to post if the "clarifications" about the changes come.

[Khajit]

Interesting but SE still hasn't addressed the fact that since the last time I checked fl100 nyzul is impossible without outright cheating. At least there might be actual interest in nyzul now.

[Atoreis]

Interesting but SE still hasn't addressed the fact that since the last time I checked fl100 nyzul is impossible without outright cheating. At least there might be actual interest in nyzul now.

With the stopper it is possible to get to f100 without any cheats.

INB4: It requires luck

[Unctgtg]

I agree with this post

[Khiinroye]

As long as its a system like the dominion battle trophy with no ability to exchange them, it is fine, and keeps a requirement to win at floor 80/100 to get the lv 100 versions.

I'd also like to suggest that the nyzul boss key items be exchangeable for cotton coin pouches, at a somewhat lower rate of trade than the armor (2 for 20/40, 1 for 60/80/100). This would give some meaning to key items that groups might accumulate by randomly landing on a boss floor while aiming for a higher target floor (e.g. landing on floor 20 when aiming for floor 80). It could add maybe 50ish alexandrite per group if they all trade in, so it would still be less than a single salvage run, but would provide a much-needed boost in the alexandrite supply.

[Greatguardian]

Interesting but SE still hasn't addressed the fact that since the last time I checked fl100 nyzul is impossible without outright cheating. At least there might be actual interest in nyzul now.

Eh, even if basic things like seeing through walls is too much, players can accumulate the exact same gear by doing Floor 80 a bit more - which is perfectly doable in vanilla FFXI.

[Dazusu]

I wonder if the option to not use the 'stopper' feature will remain.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If I'm reading it right, just set the "stopper" to F100 and you'll have basically achieved the same thing, unless you enjoy going 94 > 3.

[Khajit]

With the stopper it is possible to get to f100 without any cheats.

INB4: It requires luck

When I'd last semi thoroughly checked nyzul info(just before a group actually discovered you could overshoot it was calculated something along the lines of a 1.6~0.6% chance to win.(I cant seem to find the actual number calculated anymore for some reason). As such you are not filling me with confidence in your words at all and have actually ended up pulling a Mussolini wherein you have the opposite effect.


Eh, even if basic things like seeing through walls is too much, players can accumulate the exact same gear by doing Floor 80 a bit more - which is perfectly doable in vanilla FFXI.
Uh.. GG you completely missed the point in my statement there which is honestly a new one for you. The point was that they aren't fixing the fact that cheating is effectively(since when you get into fractions of a percent on an event with limited access it effectively can be) it was that they still haven't made it legitimately possible to to the best of my knowledge. If back when the 18 hour PW news came out SE had said you could trade in 30+ sarameya/khim/tinnin hides for a single PW drop it wouldn't have been considered fixing the problem so I don't see why it is considered fixing the fl100 problem in Nyzul.

And really the fact that you think having X-ray vision like Ka-el of the Planet Krypton is a "basic thing" says alot about the state of Nyzul right now.

[Kristal]

Nice changes... except now I got to change my sig again >_<

[Divinius]

Actually, the way I read it makes it seem more like Heroes Abyssea Trophy system. I wouldn't mind that at all. It would be a grind to get every piece you wanted, but it would be a progression method that would please everyone given time put into the event.

If you take the exact numbers from the trophy exchanging, it would take 16x Floor 20 to yield 1 KI for a floor 100 piece, or 80 runs for all 5 pieces or 240 runs for all 15. It would be less if people made it to floor 40/60/80, but it would all add up for progression and rewards that anyone would be able to obtain given enough time and dedication and removing the luck factor.

Screwwwwwwwwwwww that. Straight up.

Allowing people to trade up 1 tier is plenty. It still requires that a group hit floor 80 consistently at the absolute minimum in order to get floor 100 armor. This is perfectly doable without any third party tools whatsoever, and I am completely okay with this.

They could implement the system as Seankp suggested without breaking the game. It just wouldn't be 2x kills per upgrade, it would be much more. Knowing SE, there's no way they'd make it 2x kills to upgrade anyway.

Even if it was only 5x kills on a floor to get a piece from the next one up, figure that's 25 floor 20s to get a floor 60, 125 floor 20s to get a floor 80, and 625 floor 20s to get a 100.

And that's only a single piece of gear. Make it 8x kills per floor to upgrade, and you'd still need 64 floor 60 kills to get one piece of floor 100 gear. I don't care how awesome floor 100 gear is, 64 successful floor 60 runs for one piece of gear isn't really game-breaking. And even if you think it is, they could just make the multiplier higher.

In any case, a system like that would give players exactly what they want, a sense of progression where the best gear isn't hopelessly impossible to obtain, it just takes a long time.

[Divinius]

Nope. If a group can't hit floor 80, they shouldn't be wearing floor 100 gear. Period. Don't care how many years they've played, or how many F20 bosses they've killed. I don't care if it takes 2 years per piece. Anyone, and I mean anyone can hit floor 80. They just can't hit it with Glamdring's attitude, or Rosina's attitude, or Naturebeckle's attitude.

Some gimps need to get their ego toned down a few dozen bars before they'll ever be able to improve. I'm still cracking up at Glamdring being the best player on his server.
I'm not trying to arguing with you, one, because I greatly respect you and your contributions to the community, and two, because the FFXI player in me totally agrees with what you just said.

But you have to look at this from SE's perspective. The fact is that gimps make up a hefty portion of the playerbase, and each of the people you mentioned is worth the exact same 12.95 a month to SE as people like you. If you were SE, would you rather implement an event where the gimps basically give up and ignore it, and eventually quit in frustration? Or one where you can dangle a carrot in front of them that they can realistically (eventually) obtain, but only if they play (and pay a subscription) for those two more years per piece of gear?

You don't maintain subscriptions by alienating the gimps. You maintain them by giving the gimps a reason to play (and pay) for much, much longer periods of time. This way, anyone with half a clue can still get their gear reasonably quickly, and show it off all they want, while those without a clue have a VERY long road ahead of them, but it's a road they are still capable of traveling.

[Greatguardian]

I'm not trying to arguing with you, one, because I greatly respect you and your contributions to the community, and two, because the FFXI player in me totally agrees with what you just said.

But you have to look at this from SE's perspective. The fact is that gimps make up a hefty portion of the playerbase, and each of the people you mentioned is worth the exact same 12.95 a month to SE as people like you. If you were SE, would you rather implement an event where the gimps basically give up and ignore it, and eventually quit in frustration? Or one where you can dangle a carrot in front of them that they can realistically (eventually) obtain, but only if they play (and pay a subscription) for those two more years per piece of gear?

You don't maintain subscriptions by alienating the gimps. You maintain them by giving the gimps a reason to play (and pay) for much, much longer periods of time. This way, anyone with half a clue can still get their gear reasonably quickly, and show it off all they want, while those without a clue have a VERY long road ahead of them, but it's a road they are still capable of traveling.

I don't think there's very much for people to feel good about with an event that anyone can beat, however. Just look at the overwhelming response from this community towards Abyssea and you'll see what I mean. Most old-school, HNM/Endgame players loved it while most of the people who had still not worked their way out of sky in 2010 absolutely abhorred it (barring a few exceptions).

It's all a matter of the ego. Of course people are going to be unhappy if they can't beat an event, because that challenges their ego. They'll come up with any excuse they can, be it "I only lose because I'm not a cheating botter scumbag who rapes children", or "I'm more skilled than any of those guys, I just don't RMT all my gil and suck pee-pee for gear because I have my dignity". In the end, that's all it really boils down to. Events that are beatable by anyone don't stroke the ego, so even if it's made accessible to them it immediately becomes unwanted.

The real carrot isn't supposed to be the gear. It's supposed to be the increase in skill, teamwork, and tactics required to get said gear. The goal is for people to be improving themselves as players, and frankly no one who hasn't already done so will bother if they're able to get everything while maintaining a horrendously gimp attitude.

It doesn't take spectacular gear or 3PP to hit floor 80. It just takes a basic understanding of game mechanics and teamwork. Of course, everyone thinks that they have that, even when they don't, and thus blame their inability to hit floor 80 on external factors like bots and hacks. Note that I'm specifically talking about 80 here. I know plenty well that hitting 100 without even basic Windower is going to still be a crapshoot, but I don't much care as that's just what people have to deal with when they choose not to use a superior interface in 2012.

What people like Glamdring need to learn is that they aren't as good at this game as they think they are, they don't know as much as they think they do, and the real reason they're losing isn't because of bots/hacks/RMT/ but because they're just not good, and the only way to prove that is to have an event that'll give them a swift kick in the ass if they go in with their current mindset.

[Neisan_Quetz]

At the same time, even for gimps, F60 gear is probably better than what they're wearing now, so with the changes, even subpar players can do the event and get better gear, they just won't get the best gear. They just need not to be braindead.

[SpankWustler]

One thing to note is, presumably, it is just as possible to get lucky as it is to get unlucky when it comes to the new Nyzul. A group of people who hate learning stuff about FFXI would eventually hammer their way to Floors 40/60 for level 60 equipment through the power of that "statistics" thing they hate so much.

They wouldn't end up with as much stuff as a group able to hit 60/80 and work on stuff that way, but they would still get the stuff and could eventually fill up on it with enough time invested. Floor 40 is possible, although very unlikely, after only five lucky jumps.

Also, while Floor 60 equipment isn't amazing, it fills exactly the same niches as Floor 80 and Floor 100 equipment if a player has nothing for that purpose currently. For jobs with bad options for that niche at present, even the Floor 60 stuff might win.


"I only lose because I'm not a cheating botter scumbag who rapes children"

http://www.literaryescorts.com/graphics/1/LegionRape1.jpg

[Scribble]

The real carrot isn't supposed to be the gear. It's supposed to be the increase in skill, teamwork, and tactics required to get said gear. The goal is for people to be improving themselves as players, and frankly no one who hasn't already done so will bother if they're able to get everything while maintaining a horrendously gimp attitude.

It doesn't take spectacular gear or 3PP to hit floor 80. It just takes a basic understanding of game mechanics and teamwork.

Sure it takes 'skill'(whatever the hell that means) teamwork, cooperation and communication ect., but we could do without the luck factor being so big a part of the event. Prior to the changes (and after them to an extent) luck played a bigger role than all of the aforementioned. It remains to be seen how the changes will affect this event, but luck is still going to be a large factor.

I agree with the idea that it should take more than being present to clear content, but I don't agree that you should need so much luck, especially when we all know that luck is completely independent of how geared, 'skilled' or competent your group is. Nyzul's implementation doesn't support that style of gameplay with random floor jumps.

If you wanted to 'separate the men from the boys' so to speak, force groups through floors by progression. If you aren't good enough to progress through increasingly tougher challenges, you don't deserve better gear; not because you got shitted on by RNG.

[Greatguardian]

Sure it takes 'skill'(whatever the hell that means) teamwork, cooperation and communication ect., but we could do without the luck factor being so big a part of the event. Prior to the changes (and after them to an extent) luck played a bigger role than all of the aforementioned. It remains to be seen how the changes will affect this event, but luck is still going to be a large factor.

I agree with the idea that it should take more than being present to clear content, but I don't agree that you should need so much luck, especially when we all know that luck is completely independent of how geared, 'skilled' or competent your group is. Nyzul's implementation doesn't support that style of gameplay with random floor jumps.

If you wanted to 'separate the men from the boys' so to speak, force groups through floors by progression. If you aren't good enough to progress through increasingly tougher challenges, you don't deserve better gear; not because you got shitted on by RNG.

I already defined skill in an earlier post in this thread and have absolutely no desire to repeat myself. Remove all luck from the equation and you cannot have skill, as there will be nothing that cannot be accounted for in advance or beaten via mindless repetition a la Old Dynamis.

The issue is not random floor jumps. It was always the low likelihood of hitting 100, to the point where it was extremely unrewarding and unlikely for even the best groups to win.

Add more tangible rewards to 100 (gear token), make it easier for skilled groups to hit the floor (stopper), and you've fixed the two biggest problems with the event.

Luck? Luck will always exist. It is required in order for skill to exist.

With the changes being made to the event as they stand now, any skilled player can get Fl100 armor. Assuming they don't screw that up, there's no need for any more crying about luck. Hitting a consistent floor 80 isn't hard and doesn't require luck. Could you get screwed by the RNG and only make the 60 boss on occasion? Sure, but only rarely. And at that point, who cares?

To add: The only way there could be any "difficulty" or "skill" involved in "Progression" with Nyzul is if they made all the monsters on floor 80+ have 100,000 HP and Spike Flail and other stupid shit, making it legitimately difficult to clear 5 floors at a time (most good groups can clear 15-20 normal floors). If you want to preserve difficulty while adding progression, higher floors will need to be so god damn difficult that most people would try them and wipe over and over and over again and never beat them. But then you'd just complain about that, wouldn't you?

Tedium is not difficulty. It never has been and never will be.

[Raksha]

Luck? Luck will always exist. It is required in order for skill to exist.


I don't think this is necessarily true. If two people were in a number-adding-contest there would be no luck involved, but it would still be a skill-based contest (the person who practices more would have an advantage, for example).

[Greatguardian]

I don't think this is necessarily true. If two people were in a number-adding-contest there would be no luck involved, but it would still be a skill-based contest (the person who practices more would have an advantage, for example).

This is like calling Deep Blue a skilled chess player. He's not, by the way. I'm acquainted with one of the men who built him, and even he'll agree that Deep Blue was anything but smart or skilled.

[FrankReynolds]

This is like calling Deep Blue a skilled chess player. He's not, by the way. I'm acquainted with one of the men who built him, and even he'll agree that Deep Blue was anything but smart or skilled.

The difference is that dumb ass deep blue will make the same correct move every time. Humans will fuck up from time to time and require no luck or lack of luck to do so. Just knowing the pattern isn't enough for humans. We don't require bad luck to create a skill curve.

[Nala]

oh wow... my dev track bar doesn't seem to work all the time, i totally missed camate's post about this, i'm almost excited about neo nyzul now... waiting on official announcement on how it's going to be changed before i actually get my hopes up over nothing though.

[Hunewearl]

I already defined skill in an earlier post in this thread and have absolutely no desire to repeat myself. Remove all luck from the equation and you cannot have skill.Salvage pretty much destroys your whole reasoning. Less so nowadays, but the concept itself does.

I'm pretty sure that there are 20 other examples countering this rather poor logic, but you get the picture.

Looking forward an update on this event, it really needs it.

[Raksha]

This is like calling Deep Blue a skilled chess player.

No it isnt.

Computers don't need skill because computers can't make mistakes (with caveats).

Being able to complete a task in the fastest time and/or with the least amount of errors or waste is a measure of skill.

EDIT: an in case anyone tries to argue semantics with me, let me quote wikipedia:


A skill is the learned (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning) capacity to carry out pre-determined results often with the minimum outlay of time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time), energy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy), or both.

[Scribble]

I already defined skill in an earlier post in this thread and have absolutely no desire to repeat myself.

Ok Webster...

Luck is an outside influence, either good or bad. Skill, regardless of interpretation, is solely based on the influence of the player. As it relates to Nyzul, luck dominates skill. You can have poor skill and still be lucky enough with mob types, floor types and random floors to get where you want to go. You can also have 'skill' or near perfect execution and get screwed by bad luck with mobs, floor types and random jumps. Other people may have been crying about it, but I was just pointing out that skill doesn't or at least didn't play as much a part as you were representing.


If you want to preserve difficulty while adding progression, higher floors will need to be so god damn difficult that most people would try them and wipe over and over and over again and never beat them. But then you'd just complain about that, wouldn't you?

Did you read my suggestion at all? I suggested 20 floor progression for normal groups with skilled groups taking on more at a time. You yourself say that good groups can clear 20 normal floors, why would this be an issue? Where does your idea that the floors need to be incredibly difficult come from? Each progressive boss should be harder ie. 100 > 80 ect.


Tedium is not difficulty. It never has been and never will be.
Now this I can get down with. It's the cornerstone of the XI vs. WoW difficulty argument. No one wants Nyzul to be boring, but relying on /random instead of communication, teamwork and execution isn't exciting. There's enough randomness in which floor/mob type you get. Random floor jumps just saturates it. Why have an option to go up one level at all unless you're a floor short of a boss?

[Camate]

Hello!

I have a couple of things to inform you all about in regards to Nyzul Isle Uncharted Region.

First, in regards to the reward system changes, I have some updates. There was a discussion about the new system in regards to the number of times you must defeat a boss and the following two ideas came up:

Differentiate the number of times based on floor: 20/40/60/80
Don’t differentiate the number of times based on floor: 20/40/60/80

The conclusion was the latter – not to differentiate by floor. On this basis, everyone felt that defeating a boss 25 times would be an appropriate number.

With this said, here is a compilation of what will be done:


Reduction of the cost of temporary items (Will be implemented during tomorrow's test server update)
Token costs will be halved.
<table width="300" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="60%" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Category</td><td width="20%" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Pre-change</td><td width="20%" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Post-change</td></tr><tr align="center" valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">Low cost</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">100</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">50</td></tr><tr align="center" valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">Mid cost</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">200</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">100</td></tr><tr align="center" valign="middle" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">High cost</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">300</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">150</td></tr></table>

Implementation of a "stopper" feature (Won't be added during tomorrow's test server update)
After entering, it will be possible to set which floor you would like to aim for: 20/40/60/80/100.
While you'll no longer be able to go past your destination floor, once you reach the destination floor and defeat the notorious monster there, you will be unable to progress to the next floor.　
　
Key item/equipment exchange system (This version recently discussed above won't be implemented during tomorrow’s test server; however, the system we mentioned the other day will be implemented temporarily)
In the event that you are able to defeat a specific boss floor 25 times (or more), instead of receiving one of the possible items from that corresponding boss, you will be able to receive a more powerful version of that item.

For example, if you were to defeat the floor 20 notorious monster 25 times, you would be able to receive one of the floor 40 items. However, for floor 100 you will be able to select one of the floor 100 items by defeating the notorious monster found there.　

[detlef]

I think the devs are on the right track, but 25 times seems to be a bit much. 10-15 seems a little more reasonable.

[Washburn]

they dont care what's reasonable to the people who pay and play.

[Creelo]

...25 times?

That's a bit much.

10-15 times like Phil said I think would be much more reasonable and approachable. To have to do an event successfully 25 times just to receive one piece of upgraded gear would turn a lot of people away from doing this event.

[Zubis]

25 is okay, that's doing it once a day for two weeks for a guaranteed change at a high powered item.

People have put far more time into Abyssea/Voidwatch/Magian Trials/etc for less.


To have to do an event successfully 25 times just to receive one piece of upgraded gear would turn a lot of people away from doing this event.

Tell that to the people who are 0/250 on Voidwatch NMs :p

[Atoreis]

...25 times?

That's a bit much.

10-15 times like Phil said I think would be much more reasonable and approachable. To have to do an event successfully 25 times just to receive one piece of upgraded gear would turn a lot of people away from doing this event.

You fail to understand thats not 1 item but 6 items because everyone will get one.

[FrankReynolds]

that's roughly 4 1/2 months every day for one set of armor. 8 months if you want 2 sets, etc. thats a long time to finish gear from one event.

[Atoreis]

that's roughly 4 1/2 months every day for one set of armor. 8 months if you want 2 sets, etc. thats a long time to finish gear from one event.

Once again 6 sets not 1 set.

Just think about salvage. Usukane body dropped after 20 days of SSR? Its 5 day faster than at nyzul isle? Cool, but only one person got it wen here everyone will.

[detlef]

Once again 6 sets not 1 set.

Just think about salvage. Usukane body dropped after 20 days of SSR? Its 5 day faster than at nyzul isle? Cool, but only one person got it wen here everyone will.You make a good point that the progress would be faster than salvage but you're also implying that the old salvage drop rates were acceptable.

[Atoreis]

You make a good point that the progress would be faster than salvage but you're also implying that the old salvage drop rates were acceptable.

Except 1 piece per 4.5days is not salvage like its much better. Not to mention you get exactly what you want when in many events you are capped at for example 4 of 5 pieces and can go months w/o getting one (My friend was 1/97 for Usukane 35 body for example and e was I think one of the 3 ppl to get one so 4th person would probably need to wait a year and it was 100min per day not 30 min per day). 25 is really good number imo.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Yeah this is awesome. Don't listen to lazy people. Some of this armor is the best in the game.

[FrankReynolds]

Except 1 piece per 4.5days is not salvage like its much better. Not to mention you get exactly what you want when in many events you are capped at for example 4 of 5 pieces and can go months w/o getting one (My friend was 1/97 for Usukane 35 body for example and e was I think one of the 3 ppl to get one so 4th person would probably need to wait a year and it was 100min per day not 30 min per day). 25 is really good number imo.

Why would Nyzul Island be as hard as salvage? I think your in the wrong thread. This is about Nyzul Island. In old Nyzul, you could complete all the sets in a few weeks if you were lucky. 1 year seems like a big jump in difficulty to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to make Salvage as hard as Salvage?

[Raksha]

Wouldn't it make more sense...

There's your problem.

[Atoreis]

Why would Nyzul Island be as hard as salvage? I think your in the wrong thread. This is about Nyzul Island. In old Nyzul, you could complete all the sets in a few weeks if you were lucky. 1 year seems like a big jump in difficulty to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to make Salvage as hard as Salvage?

Really? You could make 3 full sets for 6 ppl in few weeks? All right lets check it:

6*3*5= Thats 90 days of 100% drop of what you want at every single run.
Drop rate was more like 50% with TH so thats 180 days. Now the best part. 5ppl got askar body and you need one more for last person. You have 16,6% to get one. All that and your 3 full sets for 6 ppl in few weeks is actually something like 250 days+ Now lets recall how good were nyzul items at 75 compered to how good are items from neonyzul at 99. Exactly.

[Tsukiumi]

SE does realize that we're still restricted by the 1 tag per day restriction, right? So at least 25 days for 1 piece of gear, barring any fails.

[Atoreis]

SE does realize that we're still restricted by the 1 tag per day restriction, right? So at least 25 days for 1 piece of gear, barring any fails.

6 Six sześć gjashtë šest seis sechs шесть altı pieces of gear not one.

Its really that hard to understand?

[FrankReynolds]

Really? You could make 3 full sets for 6 ppl in few weeks? All right lets check it:

6*3*5=

This is where you went wrong. Shouting for 5 other people who are after the same piece of gear as you is dumb.

It's neat that you are looking at this from the developers point of view for some reason, but I don't care how many pieces are awarded in X amount of time. I only care how long it takes to get mine. In old nyzul, you shouted for people who didn't need the item you needed. You were not obligated to help them for the rest of their lives to get the same piece you just got. In the old one you purposely teamed up with people who needed different gear from you. In new nyzul you team with people who need the same stuff. The amount of time it takes to get the gear still has nothing to do with how many people need it.

[Atoreis]

This is where you went wrong. Shouting for 5 other people who are after the same piece of gear as you is dumb.

It's neat that you are looking at this from the developers point of view for some reason, but I don't care how many pieces are awarded in X amount of time. I only care how long it takes to get mine. In old nyzul, you shouted for people who didn't need the item you needed. You were not obligated to help them for the rest of their lives to get the same piece you just got. In the old one you purposely teamed up with people who needed different gear from you. In new nyzul you team with people who need the same stuff. The amount of time it takes to get the gear still has nothing to do with how many people need it.

Yeah cool and what? you shouted for those ppl and what? You had 8% chance to get your item. One item per 12 runs. 180 runs to get 3 sets.

[tyrantsyn]

Really? You could make 3 full sets for 6 ppl in few weeks? All right lets check it:

6*3*5= Thats 90 days of 100% drop of what you want at every single run.
Drop rate was more like 50% with TH so thats 180 days. Now the best part. 5ppl got askar body and you need one more for last person. You have 16,6% to get one. All that and your 3 full sets for 6 ppl in few weeks is actually something like 250 days+ Now lets recall how good were nyzul items at 75 compered to how good are items from neonyzul at 99. Exactly.

OMG not the numbers. The 25 win's extent's the content longer for those interested in completing set's or obtaining the gear. Can't we just keep it at that and not derail the conversation with number's.

[Scribble]

In the event that you are able to defeat a specific boss floor 25 times (or more), instead of receiving one of the possible items from that corresponding boss, you will be able to receive a more powerful version of that item.

For example, if you were to defeat the floor 20 notorious monster 25 times, you would be able to receive one of the floor 40 items. However, for floor 100 you will be able to select one of the floor 100 items by defeating the notorious monster found there.　


So you need to defeat the 20 boss a total of 25 times for level 40 gear, the 40 boss 25 times for level 60 gear...

People already have the math worked out that they'll have a full set(I'm assuming HQ) in just over 4 months barring failure, but that would require clearing floor 80 a total of 125 times without fail. Ok, sure.

On the other hand, people who are able to clear floor 100 would have a full set inside a week? Two days if they started with tags in reserve?

It seems like a bit of a gap to me.
[image michaelstrahan.jpg /image]

Maybe it's just me but this seems a bit, hmm... whats the word? Balanced? I can't wait for Salvage. Could someone tell me how to turn off this sarcasm font?

[Mirabelle]

So you need to defeat the 20 boss a total of 25 times for level 40 gear, the 40 boss 25 times for level 60 gear...

People already have the math worked out that they'll have a full set(I'm assuming HQ) in just over 4 months barring failure, but that would require clearing floor 80 a total of 125 times without fail. Ok, sure.

On the other hand, people who are able to clear floor 100 would have a full set inside a week? Two days if they started with tags in reserve?

It seems like a bit of a gap to me.
[image michaelstrahan.jpg /image]

Maybe it's just me but this seems a bit, hmm... whats the word? Balanced? I can't wait for Salvage. Could someone tell me how to turn off this sarcasm font?

Only the best players are going to defeat the floor 100 boss on any sort of routine basis. I'm not sure anyone has yet and the event has been out for a month. The stopper will make that more feasible, but I doubt anyone is going to get HQ in a week without some major hacks or luck.

Most groups will be shooting for floor 60 and hoping to get some floor 80 gear and if they get good at the event start shooting for 80 gear.

Of course I'm still not sure people will go to this event in droves. Still seems a more hardcore event since there is no way for an average group with good Abyssea gear to get gear that is much better than what they have. And the hardcore element doesn't make up the majority of players.

[Babygyrl]

i dont think 25 is bad at all, 25 kills and your guaranteed an item? some people go 0/100 trying to get items they want.. id take that.

[Agerknux]

I don't quite get it. It is like people are in the current mindset that the only way to get these armors is through doing the floors things 20 times to get armor. With the stopper, you can still reach the floor you intended and actually have a chance at the armor you are after. Not sure if I am pulling this out of no where, but didn't the devs also mentioned something about reducing the time to receive tags?

The armor looks good, it SHOULD take time to get. I'm not saying it should be months to get or pure luck like vw, but what this update does is give an alternative.

[Kenthedeviant]

i dont think 25 is bad at all, 25 kills and your guaranteed an item? some people go 0/100 trying to get items they want.. id take that.


If you're referring to voidwatch, YES, VW droprate can be TERRIBLE and redefines "random" and frustration. HOWEVER, keep in mind that VW can be spammed 100x or more in a SINGLE DAY by anyone with stones/gil/CP/ETC. And even if you fail in VW, only the popper loses anything. As for nyzul, we only get one tag per day, and if you fail, it's a total loss... And with the extreme random and luck-based nature of this event, fails can still happen often for VERY skilled players.

[Kysaiana]

Ever since the end of Abyssea, SE has made it abundantly clear they don't want people to obtain items without a ton of luck and/or time involved. 1500 heavy metal plates, 60 riftdross/riftcinder, 5 ADL, 100 devious dice, .001% drop rates in VW, you name it. I don't know why people are surprised or angry at 25 wins for a guaranteed item. Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah, it will take a long, long time thanks to only accruing 7 tags a week. But honestly, how many people want all 15 items? If you do, more power too you, and your inventory is a lot less cramped than mine is.

The original Nyzul isle was tedious enough without the random floor progression that I doubt I'll bother with this event at all. Even though a few of the pieces are pretty nice. I get that time sinks are a necessary part of any MMO, but it seems lately that the stick is so long you can't even see the carrot at the end anymore to bother chasing it.

So yeah, 25 wins sucks, etc. Complain about it if it makes you feel better, but sadly I doubt it will be changed just as other events haven't.

[Scribble]

Only the best players are going to defeat the floor 100 boss on any sort of routine basis. I'm not sure anyone has yet and the event has been out for a month. The stopper will make that more feasible, but I doubt anyone is going to get HQ in a week without some major hacks or luck.

My point is that it's also doubtful that people will be clearing 80 100% of the time. 125 days for a set, if that is your goal, is reasonable but it's not something that will be happening for most people. I wasn't really trying to say that beating floor 100 everyday is reasonable either, but looking at some of the posts since Camate posted gives the impression that this is exactly what people are planning on.

That said, Floor 80(in all honesty) is a pretty high goal for a lot of people. Lets just assume that an amazing streak of luck and great execution will put you in a set of gear in 150 days. That's 5 straight months of grind. Now consider that you only need 5 wins at floor 100 to achieve the same goal. The floor 80 route assumes just over 80% success rate. To match that on floor 100 you only need a 3% success rate...

See what I'm saying? To achieve the same goal you either need 5/6 attempts at floor 80 or 1/30 attempts at floor 100. It just seems to me that if you take a group competent enough to clear 80 with that kind of frequency, it isn't a stretch to think that dumb luck would work out for them more than once a month on floor 100...

/shrug

[Creelo]

I love how people are like "Oh, 25 boss wins for 1 piece of armor, that's not bad all compared to VW drop rates!"

Except for the fact (as was stated before) that VW isn't nearly as restricted when it comes to NI in how many times you can do it in a day. Not to mention you can't compared one VW fight to just one NI boss win. That's 2-5 minutes per fight versus a ~30min NI run, a silly comparison.

In any case, do you guys really, truly want to have to get 25 successful boss kills for just one piece of armor of a higher tier? That's nearly a month (if you were to keep up with your tags) straight of NI for just one piece of armor that you're after.

10 Boss Kills does seem low; however, I feel like 15 Boss kills would be the perfect number for this. 15 Boss kills is enough of a timesink for just 1 piece of gear you're after.

Just because they started off with the idea of 25 Boss kills for 1 piece of armor doesn't mean we have have to be content with that. I can assure you once you are 11/25 on kills, you are going to start resenting the 25 Kills needed for just that one piece of gear you'll be receiving.

[Agerknux]

I love how people are like "Oh, 25 boss wins for 1 piece of armor, that's not bad all compared to VW drop rates!"

Except for the fact (as was stated before) that VW isn't nearly as restricted when it comes to NI in how many times you can do it in a day. Not to mention you can't compared one VW fight to just one NI boss win. That's 2-5 minutes per fight versus a ~30min NI run, a silly comparison.

In any case, do you guys really, truly want to have to get 25 successful boss kills for just one piece of armor of a higher tier? That's nearly a month (if you were to keep up with your tags) straight of NI for just one piece of armor that you're after.

10 Boss Kills does seem low; however, I feel like 15 Boss kills would be the perfect number for this. 15 Boss kills is enough of a timesink for just 1 piece of gear you're after.

Just because they started off with the idea of 25 Boss kills for 1 piece of armor doesn't mean we have have to be content with that. I can assure you once you are 11/25 on kills, you are going to start resenting the 25 Kills needed for just that one piece of gear you'll be receiving.

I think the people arguing against it have different goals in mind. To me 25 kills for a free piece of armor just a side reward, I'm not going to aim for 25 kills to get the armor I want.

[FrankReynolds]

Yeah cool and what? you shouted for those ppl and what? You had 8% chance to get your item. One item per 12 runs. 180 runs to get 3 sets.

Ermmmm where are you getting these numbers? I haven't heard of any of the items from old NI being lower than %10, which means that getting all three old sets takes as long as getting 1 new set. There are very good odds that there will be better gear out before anyone completes all three sets.

EDIT: and your tripping if you think that this gear is going to be this good for very long. We still have legion new VW paths and salvage stuff coming. Who knows what else.

[Atoreis]

Ermmmm where are you getting these numbers? I haven't heard of any of the items from old NI being lower than %10, which means that getting all three old sets takes as long as getting 1 new set. There are very good odds that there will be better gear out before anyone completes all three sets.

EDIT: and your tripping if you think that this gear is going to be this good for very long. We still have legion new VW paths and salvage stuff coming. Who knows what else.

I assumed 50% drop rate.
16.6% chance it will be set you want
8.3% chance that you will win the lot assuming its 2 ppl in party for each armor.

Does it really matter? Old NI gear even if easier to get was mostly pretty useless. You should compare them to +2 or +3 items from New Nyzul in which case +2 and +3 are much easier to obtain.

[Scribble]

I think the people arguing against it have different goals in mind. To me 25 kills for a free piece of armor just a side reward, I'm not going to aim for 25 kills to get the armor I want.

Nothing is free. Assuming you farmed a complete set with a group of 6, you're looking at a minimum of 375 man-hours assuming you don't have any failed runs. I'm not against grinding out gear I want, but it would be nice if you could trade those hours/months for some entertainment at the same time.

I'd still like to point out the glaring gap between the rewards for floor 80 vs floor 100. Personally, as luck based as this event is, I'd probably take my chances with floor 100 given the odds. Breaking 5% success rate would be better than 125 flawless runs at floor 80.

If I couldn't get a group to beat those odds I'd probably give up. It's a game and the purpose is entertainment. I guess I've just worn the grind nerve out when it comes to events that don't put out in a reasonable amount of time; events that are enjoyable being the exception.

[Juilan]

DEVS: Dear players... we realize you want some form of reassurence that you are doing something over time rather than being screwed over by our random number generator (that we haven't taken the -1 glitch out of that gets you your item hehe <3) We'll get give you the ability to turn in for "enhanced armor" will be after a month of doing it about once a day... since you won't always kill the NM you are after.

Enjoy your 12$+ /month fee!

[Luvbunny]

15 kills is the perfect number, 20 is a bit pushing it, 25 is just a troll grind out of laziness from the developer. They probably should just meet in the middle and make it 20 kills so that everyone is somewhat satisfied.

[hiko]

25 is good, if you don't want to kill 25 times a monster for one piece of gear get better and target floor 100!
If you cant reach 100 just be happy that you can get 100 gear

+on your 25 80 kill you'll get +3 gears that might be better than what you already have (you dont get 1 piece of gear but one TOP gear and a bunch of good gear)


This is where you went wrong. Shouting for 5 other people who are after the same piece of gear as you is dumb.

.
good luck reaching 80 with /sh groups!


My point is that it's also doubtful that people will be clearing 80 100% of the time. 125 days for a set, if that is your goal, is reasonable but it's not something that will be happening for most people. I wasn't really trying to say that beating floor 100 everyday is reasonable either, but looking at some of the posts since Camate posted gives the impression that this is exactly what people are planning on.

That said, Floor 80(in all honesty) is a pretty high goal for a lot of people. Lets just assume that an amazing streak of luck and great execution will put you in a set of gear in 150 days. That's 5 straight months of grind. Now consider that you only need 5 wins at floor 100 to achieve the same goal. The floor 80 route assumes just over 80% success rate. To match that on floor 100 you only need a 3% success rate...

See what I'm saying? To achieve the same goal you either need 5/6 attempts at floor 80 or 1/30 attempts at floor 100. It just seems to me that if you take a group competent enough to clear 80 with that kind of frequency, it isn't a stretch to think that dumb luck would work out for them more than once a month on floor 100...

/shrug
"working as intended". someone targeting 100 should get 100 gear A LOT FASTER than someone targeting 80!
but imo floor 100 ticket is not (and should not be) a 1:1 trade, since everybody in pt get it + random0-2(3?) drop + 0-1 linen purse (yes, you can find a floor100 kill pic with 2drp+1linen).
Need a better ratio than 1:25 for floor100KI trade


Ermmmm where are you getting these numbers? I haven't heard of any of the items from old NI being lower than %10, which means that getting all three old sets takes as long as getting 1 new set. .

so ONE people getting three (total THREE) "so-so" sets (in perfect luck condition) take same time than SIX people getting one (total SIX) TOP set?+ whatever gear from80(45 using same drop rate than the one doing old nyzul)that are better than nyzul back at 75)?
+ you needed to climb100 @least once to get your 3sets!



There are very good odds that there will be better gear out before anyone completes all three sets
agree on that part but
-there is already piece of gear that are better than some of nyzul100 piece ie you dont need full set and if you just want full for having full you'll still want full when SE add better gear
-the fail is not in 25win but in 1tag/day



TLDR: keep 25:1 ratio, make tag refresh faster!

[Scribble]

"working as intended". someone targeting 100 should get 100 gear A LOT FASTER than someone targeting 80!
By that logic, shouldn't someone targeting floor 80 get gear "A LOT FASTER" than someone targeting 60?

I'd go to the trouble of deriving a tiered system, but Camate already listed that for us in his post. I'm almost 9000% sure that they decided against it because the gear you receive is better for each progressive boss. I'm definitely 9001% sure they didn't factor in that it already takes more effort(read: luck) to reach higher floors. Not only that, but the chance of failure(read: bad luck) would offset a lower number of kills needed.

Nearly 10 years later and SE still forgets how much players value concepts like progression and risk vs reward.

C'monman.jpg

[Mahoro]

Well they made it 5 kills per piece instead of 25, so either all the excessive moaning worked or someone mistranslated the original dev message regarding 25 kills and created enough false rumor spreading among you to put a sorority house to shame.

[SpankWustler]

Well they made it 5 kills per piece instead of 25, so either all the excessive moaning worked or someone mistranslated the original dev message regarding 25 kills and created enough false rumor spreading among you to put a sorority house to shame.

If I'm reading it correctly, the situation is this:

Incoming Very Soon - Five wins means a guaranteed item from that specific floor.

Incoming But Maybe Not So Soon - Twenty-five wins means a guaranteed item from 20 floors higher.

[Mahoro]

You may be right. Looks like we need to moan more!

[Mahoro]

Yeah this does lookslike the promised system where if you get 5 kills from that floor, you get to choose an item from THAT floor. If the items are the same though, that may be nice. You can build up key items for that floor or save them for higher items. Flexibility and progression.

[Scribble]

Well they made it 5 kills per piece instead of 25, so either all the excessive moaning worked or someone mistranslated the original dev message regarding 25 kills and created enough false rumor spreading among you to put a sorority house to shame.

Yeah, I think this is in addition to what Camate listed in the previous dev post. So now for every piece of higher tier gear you earn you get a free set of gimp gear. 100 floor people now have a 'buy 5 get one free' incentive.

woot!

[hiko]

Key item/equipment exchange system (This version recently discussed above won't be implemented during tomorrow’s test server; however, the system we mentioned the other day will be implemented temporarily)
In the event that you are able to defeat a specific boss floor 25 times (or more), instead of receiving one of the possible items from that corresponding boss, you will be able to receive a more powerful version of that item.





Players who defeat the NMs that spawn on floors 20, 40, 60, 80, and 100 five times will be rewarded with a key item corresponding to that section.
Talking to the NPC Berangere at Aht Urhgan Whitegate (L-9) while in possession of one of those key items will allow players to receive one piece of equipment from a list of possible spoils obtainable in that section.
cant be more clear:
test server after update: 5kill on n floor =1item from n floor
later update: 25kill on n floor=1 item from n+20 floor

unclear: what will happen with floor100KIs?

[FrankReynolds]

unclear: what will happen with floor100KIs?

This:

In this case, the merits of aiming for floor 100 would become weak, so in the event that you defeat a notorious monster on floor 100, we are planning to make it possible to obtain one item from that floor by clearing it just one time.

12356545645641564165456456453415345345645345345334 grrrr character minimum

[Mahoro]

Maybe 25 kills on Floor 100 allows you to glow! :p

In any event, yeah still unclear.

[Camate]

Been seeing quite a few comments about how 25 times is too much. Keep in mind that the bosses on floors 20/40/60/80/100 will still drop items independently of the what you can obtain by clearing it the required amount of times. This system was basically designed to ensure that you can get the item of your choice, even if you are unlucky (bad lots included) when doing a run.

[Vivik]

25 times seems reasonable to me. Armor won't be too easy to get but also wont be out of reach for a dedicated group.

[Daniel]

I'm sort of confused, the last post for the official update said you would have to do it only 5 times to get items, or is that just for test server purposes?

[Camate]

I'm sort of confused, the last post for the official update said you would have to do it only 5 times to get items, or is that just for test server purposes?

The system that was implemented on the test server today is different than what was mentioned yesterday. The new system (clear 25 times) will be reflected at another time.

[Luvbunny]

Thanks for all the updates Camate, really appreciate you passing the information to the developers. Would it be so bad to meet us in the middle and make the number as 20 clear? This way it's not too much or too little and still give us enough grind time to justify the longevity of the content :) thanks.

[Lushipur]

problem is nobody care aboout nq, +1 and +2 item
and clearing 25 times level 60/80 floor will still take lots of luck

please consider a system like dominion trophy where multiply level 20 ki can be used to obtain a level 100 ki

[Divinius]

problem is nobody care aboout nq, +1 and +2 item
and clearing 25 times level 60/80 floor will still take lots of luck

please consider a system like dominion trophy where multiply level 20 ki can be used to obtain a level 100 ki
OK, 25 runs get you a piece from the next tier up. So if they did something like battle trophies, you know they would probably still use the 25x multiplier. So after 25 runs of floor 20 you get 1 floor-40 trophy, then 25 floor-40 trophies could get you a floor 60, etc.

Using that system, to get a floor 100 item, would be 390,625 floor 20 clears. Better get cracking, that's over 1000 years of daily Nyzul runs.

[Karbuncle]

OK, 25 runs get you a piece from the next tier up. So if they did something like battle trophies, you know they would probably still use the 25x multiplier. So after 25 runs of floor 20 you get 1 floor-40 trophy, then 25 floor-40 trophies could get you a floor 60, etc.

Using that system, to get a floor 100 item, would be 390,625 floor 20 clears. Better get cracking, that's over 1000 years of daily Nyzul runs.

Seems on par for the course for SE. Dealing with Dumb luck or Taking 1000 Years for the "Progression" to kick in O_O

[Scribble]

Been seeing quite a few comments about how 25 times is too much. Keep in mind that the bosses on floors 20/40/60/80/100 will still drop items independently of the what you can obtain by clearing it the required amount of times. This system was basically designed to ensure that you can get the item of your choice, even if you are unlucky (bad lots included) when doing a run.

Despite the negative comments and feedback people have sometimes(myself included), I just wanted to thank you for your activity in the forums and keeping us not only up to date, but ahead of the curve on things. Props.


I'm sort of confused, the last post for the official update said you would have to do it only 5 times to get items, or is that just for test server purposes?
The way I understand it to work...

There are(will be) 3 ways to obtain pieces of gear in Nyzul. For example, lets say you wanted to get a piece of gear from the boss on floor 80. You could get it in any of the following ways:

1) Defeat the boss on floor 80 and win the lot for that item if/when it drops
-or-
2) Defeat the boss on floor 80 a total of 5 times and obtain a key item you can turn in for any piece of gear from that specific floor
-or-
3) Defeat the boss on floor 60 a total of 25 times and obtain a different key item that allows you to select gear from the next highest boss floor

[Karbuncle]

Question: Will you have to Keep that KI for 5 Kills for it to "Turn into" The Floor Up KI At 25 kills, Or can you get the 5 Kills > Turn it in for a Armor, do it 5 more.. another armor etc etc up to 25 times where I'd get the KI for the higher up.

To Clarify. Do i need to Keep the KI From 5 Floor Kills to Get the 25 Trophy, Or Can i spend those Trophies when i get them and still be able to Get the 25 "Next Floor" Trophy.

[Atoreis]

Seems on par for the course for SE. Dealing with Dumb luck or Taking 1000 Years for the "Progression" to kick in O_O

Idk maybe its just me but you seems to cry so much when something new is posted that I think that's impossible to cry harder. Then SE adjust it to make it easier and you somehow actually cry even harder. It really amazes me every single time. I think you listened "Cry Me a River" for too long.

[FrankReynolds]

Idk maybe its just me but you seems to cry so much when something new is posted that I think that's impossible to cry harder. Then SE adjust it to make it easier and you somehow actually cry even harder. It really amazes me every single time. I think you listened "Cry Me a River" for too long.

It's just you. You cry about people crying a lot.

[Karbuncle]

Idk maybe its just me but you seems to cry so much when something new is posted that I think that's impossible to cry harder. Then SE adjust it to make it easier and you somehow actually cry even harder. It really amazes me every single time. I think you listened "Cry Me a River" for too long.

Its just you. Dunno if you just hold grudges with anyone who doesn't share your opinion, But you do realize that sentence you quoted was in reference to a Hypothetical situation?

Just sayin'. Try harder. I'm ecstatic about this update. You'd know that if you bothered to read anything in between complaining about people complaining.

Besides, It was a joke. Teehee haahaa? If you weren't so jaded you'd of caught it.

[Atoreis]

Its just you, All you do is cry about people crying. You just seem incredibly butthurt. Dunno if you just hold grudges with anyone who doesn't share your opinion, But you do realize that sentence you quoted was in reference to a Hypothetical situation?

Just sayin'. Try harder. I'm ecstatic about this update. You'd know that if you bothered to read anything in between complaining about people complaining.

Im not crying I'm laughing.

[Scribble]

Question: Will you have to Keep that KI for 5 Kills for it to "Turn into" The Floor Up KI At 25 kills, Or can you get the 5 Kills > Turn it in for a Armor, do it 5 more.. another armor etc etc up to 25 times where I'd get the KI for the higher up.

To Clarify. Do i need to Keep the KI From 5 Floor Kills to Get the 25 Trophy, Or Can i spend those Trophies when i get them and still be able to Get the 25 "Next Floor" Trophy.

Camate didn't contest my earlier post, but I'm not sure he read it since he didn't quote. It is possible that you can only select one item to record kills with though. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I would assume that there will be two different KI to track kills both for the current tier floor(5 kills) and the following floor(25 kills) so that you can work on at the same time.

[Karbuncle]

Not getting into a P****** contest with someone whos clearly just looking for an argument and is going to spend the next 20 posts explaining how he ain't even mad to save face.

Sound good for both of us?

[Alderin]

It's a very welcomed change. For once the devs are listening !

[Economizer]

Been seeing quite a few comments about how 25 times is too much. Keep in mind that the bosses on floors 20/40/60/80/100 will still drop items independently of the what you can obtain by clearing it the required amount of times. This system was basically designed to ensure that you can get the item of your choice, even if you are unlucky (bad lots included) when doing a run.

If I understand correctly we'll have this 25x a floor lower, 5x on the floor your spamming and just getting it from the floor in the first place. With all of these combined with the stopper I think there is no complaint we can have about obtaining the gear. It might not be easy for everyone but I definitely think it will be obtainable for everyone given enough time.

My only complaints now are that you can't do anything with lower tier gear once you have a higher tier of gear (a 1:1 trade for alexandrite or being able to get a small amount of Nyzul Tokens once you've acquired the higher tier would be nice, or at worst just being able to put it on a storage slip with your HQ gear), and that you guys didn't choose to upgrade the original Nyzul Isle gear (which is only really a complaint because they had unique stats like original Goliard Saio's 4% Haste in the body slot for mages).

Overall definitely doing good however, and my complaints are minor details at this point.

[SpankWustler]

I'm also curious if the 5 wins will stack with the 25 wins, or if it will be a choice between the two. I doubt it will matter much to know ahead of time, since the most days worth of effort that can be saved up is five, but I remain curious.


Idk maybe its just me but you seems to cry so much when something new is posted that I think that's impossible to cry harder. Then SE adjust it to make it easier and you somehow actually cry even harder. It really amazes me every single time. I think you listened "Cry Me a River" for too long.

Yo dawg, I heard you like complaining about complaining so I'm going to put some complaining about complaining about complaining in this topic made mostly out of complaining:

This post wasn't very productive. It only addresses that you have some weird personal issue with Krabnuckle complaining, rather than topics such as the validity of his complaints or if he's been listening to the Justin Timberlake or Julie London version of "Cry Me a River".

[FrankReynolds]

I'm also curious if the 5 wins will stack with the 25 wins, or if it will be a choice between the two. I doubt it will matter much to know ahead of time, since the most days worth of effort that can be saved up is five, but I remain curious.



http://i.qkme.me/36f7yd.jpg

This post wasn't very productive. It only addresses that you have some weird personal issue with Krabnuckle complaining, rather than topics such as the validity of his complaints or if he's been listening to the Justin Timberlake or Julie London version of "Cry Me a River".



Just for completions sake.

[Atoreis]

This post wasn't very productive.

Thats because I have already written "productive" part in my earlier posts.
I'm not really searching for any argument it was just annoying that on every other page in this tread I saw him complaining on pretty much everything. Maybe I was tired or something but it really looked like that.

On topic.
25kills for 6 best pieces in the game is pretty welcomed especially since SE initially wanted to make those pieces as rare as relics at 75. Saying they will be outdated in few weeks is pretty much lol... there are pieces of gear that are few years old and still win with 99 gear. Nyzul Isle gear (not all pieces and not for all jobs) will remain best for many uses because its no longer 75 vs 99 but 99 vs 99 equip. There is so many type of sets for many WS,TP,PDT,Evasion etc that you can make new gear that is still best for something and wont even compete with older gear because it will be used for different things. Like for example Thaumas Body is now best TP piece for many jobs. New salvage body for those jobs can be for example best body for WS (Not to mention many jobs from NI gear is grouped different on salvage gear like BLU is with light DD on Thaumas and with mages on Morrigan ).
Im not exactly sure why ppl that are not top tier players assume that they should get top tier equip doing some easy stuff (im talking about ppl complaining about 25x 80 boss iss too much). You should be happy that SE gives you chance to even get those items in easier way because stopper itself is enough for best players to get 100 floors items and it would be perfectly fine if SE would stop with only adding this. Best players will have all sets in a 1-3 months not 8 or 9 because they will target floor 100.
Casuals that talk about getting all 3 sets in some low amount of time just make me thinks if we play the same game? I know what you think that I sound like some mofo elitist but its not the case here. Its not a type of event that let selected individuals that have no life to get best item in the game. Only thing you need here is to play really good and sooner or later you will get everything. Everyone can do it if they are good enough (dont tell me you need cheats. Jem's group did NeoNyzul without any cheats at all and they cleared 16 and 19 floors and the other group who killed 100 floor boss cleared 15 floors so its perfectly possible to get to 100 without any 3rd party tools).
If you are good you will be able to get those items from floor 100 faster if you are not you will be able to get those items from killing boss80. Considering You will probably be able to get to floor 100 at avg rate of 5-10%(which is 10-20 runs) it would be stupid to make it faster to get 100floor items from killing boss 80 than from killing boss 100. Ppl need to understand that getting 100floor equip by killing 80floor boss is only a backup not a main way to get it.

[Crysten]

Everyone can do it if they are good enough (dont tell me you need cheats. Jem's group did NeoNyzul without any cheats at all and they cleared 16 and 19 floors and the other group who killed 100 floor boss cleared 15 floors so its perfectly possible to get to 100 without any 3rd party tools).

Uh, last I read of that thread Jem's group were regularly using FillMode/DAT mods to gain an advantage (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109245-Neo-Nyzul-Isle?p=5071995&viewfull=1#post5071995) and Coder's group had a person using clipper. (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109245-Neo-Nyzul-Isle?p=5074579#post5074579) Argue the semantics all you want but at the moment, you still need some kind of exploit to reach 100 with any kind of consistancy.

I don't wish to downplay their achievements too much but don't overexaggerate the facts. You seem to be confusing luck and skill a lot here. 16 floor clears is great until you realize the RNG was screwing them.

I welcome the changes to the system at the moment though - we finally have what we were asking for all along - progression. The stopper is the icing on the cake and yes, totally allows those going above and beyond to feasibly get these items.

I do wish the luck factor was downplayed more, but I'll take this as a fair compromize. I can see most groups of well geared players farming 80 quite easily now.

[Atoreis]

Uh, last I read of that thread Jem's group were regularly using FillMode/DAT mods to gain an advantage (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109245-Neo-Nyzul-Isle?p=5071995&viewfull=1#post5071995) and Coder's group had a person using clipper. (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/109245-Neo-Nyzul-Isle?p=5074579#post5074579) Argue the semantics all you want but at the moment, you still need some kind of exploit to reach 100 with any kind of consistancy.

I don't wish to downplay their achievements too much but don't overexaggerate the facts. You seem to be confusing luck and skill a lot here. 16 floor clears is great until you realize the RNG was screwing them.

I welcome the changes to the system at the moment though - we finally have what we were asking for all along - progression. The stopper is the icing on the cake and yes, totally allows those going above and beyond to feasibly get these items.

I do wish the luck factor was downplayed more, but I'll take this as a fair compromize. I can see most groups of well geared players farming 80 quite easily now.


I think you need to learn to read. Jem's group intentionally went w/o any form of cheats to check how far they can go and they made 2 runs like that 16 and 19 floors.

Coder group made to 100 with 15 cleared floors so yes with a little luck Jem's group could easily made to 100.

The luck is involved obviously but you must be blind to not see that more cleared floor = less luck needed which means skill is very important.

Luck in this game was almost always involved to get the item and here its just implemented in random floors instead of low drop rate on the end. Its gonna be further improved with 100% "drop" for each person if you beat 100 floor boss and luck needed will be decreased a little with stopper. If you cant accept that because you still wont be able to do this it doesnt mean SE failed but it means you just cant play good enough to beat it.

[Elexia]

Of course people who post on BG cheats, isn't that the same forum with the circle jerk of Salvage exploiters who got pissed "noobs" found out about it and causing them to get banned for it?

As long as luck remains a factor, even 3 clears is too much, but whatever, I still would have preferred floors 101-200 to regular Nyzul.

[Karbuncle]

Of course people who post on BG cheats, isn't that the same forum with the circle jerk of Salvage exploiters who got pissed "noobs" found out about it and causing them to get banned for it?

I'm sorry, Thats not even remotely close. Your view on the website is about as i'll-informed as all the "I don't go there because i once heard bad things about it" types who never visit there but act like they know everything that happens there and assumes everyone there are some anarchist elitists who laugh and everyone and make/buy their own bots.

Am i correct in this assumption?

Theres more people in BG who laugh at the salvage bans than most other places. You wouldn't know that though, As i imagine you haven't even seen the website, let alone have any idea that the community as BG is made up of as many diverse groups as any other FFXI Website.

I post on BG, I don't even use Windower, I don't enjoy cheats or people who cheat, But I live and let live when it comes to that. And i giggle loudly at the Salvage Bans, and never participated in the abuse. Oh, Did I break your stereotype?

Not everyone on BG Cheats, Nor did everyone on BG Salvage-Dup. Please, If you're going to try and bash something, at least educate yourself enough on the subjection to have any idea what you're talking about. Otherwise you just make yourself look silly.

In fact, Many people who here, Post on BG as well. Many of the people who are adamantly against the use of Movementtools in Nyzul, are members of BG. Atoreis is a BG member as well, Maybe a recent one but one non-the-less.

Don't always believe what you hear. Rumors are generally started by the butthurt. Humans are petty creatures who will do anything to try and trash the name of something they don't understand or agree with. Anything negative you heard about BG was likely from an Era in its history where people like Thorny were running around furiously getting off to being a dick to people. Thats not really the case anymore.

[Atoreis]

Of course people who post on BG cheats, isn't that the same forum with the circle jerk of Salvage exploiters who got pissed "noobs" found out about it and causing them to get banned for it?

As long as luck remains a factor, even 3 clears is too much, but whatever, I still would have preferred floors 101-200 to regular Nyzul.

Yeah because if some jerk post on some forum then that whole forum is bad...
I cant really understand casual players. If SE would give up on RNG floors they would need to put the luck somewhere else which would be drop rate. Nothing would really changed in the end except being better at runs wouldnt downgrade impact of luck at all because it will be the same drop rate no matter how fast you do the floors. With luck involved in ??? floors you actually make your chances higher if you improve you skill. If they would completely give up on idea of luck then level of difficulty would need to be hardcore which means even bigger bonus for cheaters and even bigger inaccessibility of those items for casuals players.
When you complain you should actually try to post better idea of how you would do it because how they worked out this problem is imo best option they had to choose.

[Fupafighter]

Since when have the good things been easy to get? Damn just be happy that you don't have to proc the damn bosses to get drops and you get tags daily and don't have to do stupid time sink stuff to get the tags. And not the "best players" will only make it to 100... your mistaken. Any decent player with a empy should be able to perform well.

[Scribble]

When you complain you should actually try to post better idea of how you would do it because how they worked out this problem is imo best option they had to choose.

The best option they had was sticking to the original formula and making the bosses for the new levels more difficult. Before any details were announced, this is exactly what players were expecting and hoping for.


Since when have the good things been easy to get?

Abyssea came out two years ago now? Yeah, right about then.


Any decent player with a empy should be able to perform well.

Bolded for emphasis. I completely agree that they should be able to perform well but the fact of the matter is, they aren't. Even the best players aren't making it to 100 with any sort of consistency.

I don't understand why people are still arguing for this. Its like if you played a basketball game and at the end of every quarter they added a random amount to your score. You could suck at the game and still come out with a win based on luck. You could destroy the other team, but not even come close in the total because of luck. It needs to be removed from the event.

SE has this thing about being wrong or something. Maybe they're just stubborn, but this event is worse than it used to be.

[Atoreis]

The best option they had was sticking to the original formula and making the bosses for the new levels more difficult. Before any details were announced, this is exactly what players were expecting and hoping for.



Abyssea came out two years ago now? Yeah, right about then.



Bolded for emphasis. I completely agree that they should be able to perform well but the fact of the matter is, they aren't. Even the best players aren't making it to 100 with any sort of consistency.

I don't understand why people are still arguing for this. Its like if you played a basketball game and at the end of every quarter they added a random amount to your score. You could suck at the game and still come out with a win based on luck. You could destroy the other team, but not even come close in the total because of luck. It needs to be removed from the event.

SE has this thing about being wrong or something. Maybe they're just stubborn, but this event is worse than it used to be.


Ppl still arguing because you are completely ignorant. You make it looks completely lucky based when its not. You need to clear at least 12 floors to beat 100 floor which is enough to block bad players. Being better and clearing more floors greatly increases your avg chance of reaching 100.


Even the best players aren't making it to 100 with any sort of consistency.
Ofc they not because it was suppose to be like that... Reaching floor 100 is a bonus for good players who can consistently reach floor 80. Its balanced with good drop rate and it will be even more improved with incoming changes.
You completely ignored what I wrote. Making event like old Nyzul would require bad drop rate which is far worse than random floors because playing better in this case has not even small impact on chance to obtain the item when playing better with random floor jumps actually makes a difference.

[Fupafighter]

Lol exactly. If it were like old nyzle, the gear would be nerfed. Have you even looked at the stats on the 100 gear? Damn if you expect to be able to obtain it all in a month, your on drugs.

[Fupafighter]

Oh and it's THEIR freakin game. They can do what they want. And obviously most of us still enjoy it, except for the people that just keep complaining things are impossible when they haven't taken the time or energy to reach out and get it. Very sad what alot of the player base has come to.

[FrankReynolds]

Luck = Skill.

the end.

[Atoreis]

Luck = Skill.

the end.

Thats trolling...

You need luck AND skill to reach floor 100 and group that on avg can clear more floors will on avg get to floor 100 more frequently.
Its like saying 5% Double attack and 15% double attack is the same because both will let you double attack sometimes. Sure but with 15%DA it will happen 3 times more often despite DA proc depends of luck.
Its the same here. The more skill you have the less luck you need to reach the target.
In old nyzul skill had nothing to do with chance to obtain an item. It was 100% luck if you got the drop or not.

[FrankReynolds]

In this case, it would be like having 100% DA from gear, but a %90 chance that it will never proc.

[Atoreis]

In this case, it would be like having 100% DA from gear, but a %90 chance that it will never proc.

Im sorry but what you are saying has no sense without taking the same drugs as you did.

[FrankReynolds]

Im sorry but what you are saying has no sense without taking the same drugs as you did.

If your group has 100% success rate on clearing floors (this would be the 100% DA rate), you still have 90% chance that the RNG will screw you (90% chance that DA will not proc).

On a side note, your original analogy about DA was dumb to begin with, and I never should have elaborated on it.

[Karbuncle]

Oh and it's THEIR freakin game.

*Wrong buzzer sound*

While they can do whatever they want, They're a company, and if they want to make money, They shouldn't act like 4 year olds throwing a tantrum. A game is only as good as its designers, and if the designers refuse to make the game enjoyable for the majority, it dies.

FFXIV.


And obviously most of us still enjoy it

I can count on 1 hand the number of people I've spoken with or seen Over BG, FFXIAH, and here that have actually said "I Enjoy the new Content being released".

One hand.

No, Most Everyone hates it, They hate Voidwatch's drop rates, they hate Neo-Nyzuls dumb luck. I'm not saying some don't enjoy it, But the overwhelming Majority of players hate the new content we're getting. I think the recent Nyzul announcement was the closest thing to happy people have felt in a FFXI update for years.

The only reason most of us still play is nothing short of an addiction, Which SE is slowly but surely breaking for most people, as demonstrated by the lowering subscription rate.


except for the people that just keep complaining things are impossible when they haven't taken the time or energy to reach out and get it. Very sad what alot of the player base has come to.

Sad that the player base is no longer a bunch of sadistic f**ks who get their pebbles off to Bot wars and Broom-raping eachother with mediocre challenge and artificial walls at HNM camps spouting drama at eachother and acting like FFXI is the best game in the world because it takes 3% Of your entire life to achieve a new Pixel?

Yah, it's sooooo sad we're past that era in FFXI. Here's a hint, Maybe most of the Player-base no longer enjoys spending 2 years of their life going after 1 item because we're not 13 anymore. Times change, people grow up, and SE needs to realize that. The majority of its current playerbase has grown up, they've gotten jobs, some even wives/husdbands/families, and its not getting any steady supply of new young players soon. SE needs to realize content designed to stretch for years is not what the majority wants anymore.

Kudos to you on wanting to spend at least the next year of your life for your armor, But I do not share this sentiment. Nor does most of the playerbase.

Edit: And just a small side note, I don't think I've seen anyone (correct me if I'm wrong) say that the new gear is "Impossible" to obtain, Most if not all complaints are centered around the luck portion of the event and that it encourages the use of third party tools to some extent. Not necessarily my opinion, But the general consensus I'm seeing.

Me personally, I'm fine with content designed to take a few months. Months is a good measurement. I don't want to breeze through it in a week, But i also don't want to be 0/200 (Looking at you Voidwatch) and losing all will to continue playing. Its a toss up. I didn't log on for a good 4-5 Days last week, And I logged on just yesterday cause i realized apparently I had enough crysta for another month, only to realize I have no will to play anymore because I don't want to do voidwatch and take my tally of "Voidwatch Bodies Obtained:" from 0/404 to anything higher (no, That number is not made up).

*Oh, And again, In case it was lost in short attention span - This announcement for Nyzul is an amazing compromise from SE, I enjoy that they're letting us have some sort of progression.

[Atoreis]

If your group has 100% success rate on clearing floors (this would be the 100% DA rate), you still have 90% chance that the RNG will screw you (90% chance that DA will not proc).

On a side note, your original analogy about DA was dumb to begin with, and I never should have elaborated on it.

Its not stupid you just havent understood it maybe.
Let me make it more clear.

Double attack is lucky based function in this game but by adding more % it happens more often.
You can look at floors you can clear on avg like you look at % of double attack.
You still need luck to reach 100 but adding more floors you can clear on avg make reaching 100 to happen more often.

Your analogy is ironically perfect view of old Nyzul Isle when you was able to reach boss floor 100% of the time but RNG of drop rate would screw you 90% of the time. Except if they will go this route in new nyzul drop rate would be around 1% considering how good are those pieces.

[hiko]

If your group has 100% success rate on clearing floors (this would be the 100% DA rate), you still have 90% chance that the RNG will screw you (90% chance that DA will not proc).

On a side note, your original analogy about DA was dumb to begin with, and I never should have elaborated on it.
if groupA as 100 succes rate on clearing anyfloor 10sec faster than group B, group A need less luck (lower RNG ???) than group B=> skill matter

[Kristal]

Luck = Skill.

the end.

No, it's [Luck * Skill]. If you are lucky you need less skill, but if you are skillfull you need less luck.

More complex: [(Luck+Cheat) * Skill * Karma], where you can boost your luck by cheating, but karma might kick in when a meteor falls on your house. Those pesky meteors always ruin it for all of us...

[FrankReynolds]

if groupA as 100 succes rate on clearing anyfloor 10sec faster than group B, group A need less luck (lower RNG ???) than group B=> skill matter

Here's the problem. At the end of the day i'ts still 90% luck, so group A can clear shit faster all day, and not see a higher floor than group B for weeks / months. That is dumb.

[hiko]

No, it's [Luck * Skill]. If you are lucky you need less skill, but if you are skillfull you need less luck.

More complex: [(Luck+Cheat) * Skill * Karma], where you can boost your luck by cheating, but karma might kick in when a meteor falls on your house. Those pesky meteors always ruin it for all of us...
it's more luck*(skill+cheat)*karma


Here's the problem. At the end of the day i'ts still 90% luck, so group A can clear shit faster all day, and not see a higher floor than group B for weeks / months. That is dumb.

groupA will average higher than groupB

if group B was more skilled they'd reach a higher floor than they did!

[FrankReynolds]

it's more luck*(skill+cheat)*karma



groupA will average higher than groupB

if group B was more skilled they'd reach a higher floor than they did!


Group A clears 20 floors, and gets 2-5 at every ???.

Group B clears 12 floors and gets 9 at every ???.

Group B is clearly far more skilled yeah?

this scenario can repeat itself hundreds of times. Luck is fun.

[Scribble]

Ppl still arguing because you are completely ignorant. You make it looks completely lucky based when its not. You need to clear at least 12 floors to beat 100 floor which is enough to block bad players. Being better and clearing more floors greatly increases your avg chance of reaching 100.
Chance. Better known as LUCK! I didn't ignore what you wrote. If you yourself weren't so ignorant you'd have noticed that the rest of my response was aimed at the person I quoted. The only thing I would point out to you is that there have been suggestions made. Regardless of that, their original implementation of Nyzul was better. Just because you might not agree doesn't make other's opinions ignorant.

[Byrth]

Group A clears 20 floors, and gets 2-5 at every ???.

Group B clears 12 floors and gets 9 at every ???.

Group B is clearly far more skilled yeah?

Doing well so far...


this scenario can repeat itself hundreds of times. Luck is fun.

Whoops! If you draw sets of independent samples (like floor jumps) from an even distribution (flat like the 2~9 RNG), the mean of the independent sample sets falls into a symmetric distribution about the mean of the population with sufficiently high N. So no, while it is theoretically possible for the scenario to repeat itself hundreds of times, it is incredibly unlikely. Actually, the odds of getting 12 consecutive 9-jumps even once is very very low. (1/8^12 = 1/68719476736) However, that would put you at floor 9, so I'm assuming it was actually 11 consecutive 9-jumps and boss (1/8^11 = 8589934592).

If two groups have comparable and sufficient sample size, they should see floor 100 at a rate that is mostly determined by how many floors they can clear in 30 minutes. The random number generator is just a distractor designed to frustrate good groups and sometimes smile on weaker groups.

[Fupafighter]

It will not take 1 year to get an item...maybe it will take YOU 1 year lol...but not us. Because we actually motivate ourselves to get stuff instead of sitting here complaining about how it's so impossible. STFU lol

[FrankReynolds]

It will not take 1 year to get an item...maybe it will take YOU 1 year lol...but not us. Because we actually motivate ourselves to get stuff instead of sitting here complaining about how it's so impossible. STFU lol

lol its a 30 minute event that can only be done once per day. I have 23:30 to sit here and talk about just how dumb you are for thinking that you are any more proficient at nyzul isle than I am. Where is your floor 100 gear? you should have it all by now right? Have you even made it to 100?