Throwing

[Heck]

After a long time I always looked at throwing and wondered "whats up with this?". Ninja get A- skill in throwing (Caps at 354 @90) as well as Sange with merits. I feel like more can be done with this. Adding Throwing Weapon-skills, or some Job ability that can add bonuses or cause negative effects to enemies while using throwing would be great.

[Mojo]

I don't want a throwing weaponskill that I'd never use, although some updated shurikens that are practical to obtain would be nice. I like your idea on some kind of additional effects too.

[Rieul]

As a WAR and DNC, I concur that there should be at least one Weaponskill available to Throwing /ra.
Perhaps they could make it only available at 250+skill
(even a quest to unlock is optimal; RDM we gotta wait til 99!).
To be job-specific would be cool, for instance Ninja gets a multiple shuriken attack similar to barrage…
(sorry RNG?) >.>
WAR could get a buff for STR or impede enemy STR… who knows?!

[Daydreamer]

I would love to see a lvl 60 smithing lvl 60 alchemy combo for a new set of shurikens. 1 tama-Hagane 1 Cerment Chunk
NQ 66 HQ1 99 HQ2 99...etc. Call it Iga Shuriken since the last one was Koga after the relic armor sets name.

Iga Shuriken: 96dmg 192dly lvl85 I dont think its so far fetched and it would be nice to have a dual craft item that isnt max craft of a specific skill. If its going to be synergy then just do away with the 66 NQ and make it a full 99 each time.

[wish12oz]

Unless they make really, really good shurikens, that are also very cheap to make, throwing them will lower your melee damage and cost to much gil for anyone to give a crap about it. And unless they make throwing WS's that are superior to existing katana WS's, no one will use them.

Given SE's track record, I highly doubt they add anything worth using, even if you people beg for throwing WS's. So instead of asking for useless stuff like throwing WS's and new shurikens, when in the end it's just going to be a waste of time, how about we focus on real problems with the games job system, like how terrible sam, drk, rng and pld currently are. Ninja is perfectly fine the way it is right now, and will not have any problems in the future unless they make us go back to fighting really hard stuff, in which case the job will suffer from low acc and overall damage compared to other DDs.

[Bulrogg]

I'd like to see some Throwing WS, new shurikens, and make shurikens able to be wrapped and stacked like other ammo. Maybe even make the shuriken have enfeebles on them and when used with the WS, or Sange even, the effect would last longer.

[wish12oz]

Maybe even make the shuriken have enfeebles on them and when used with the WS, or Sange even, the effect would last longer.

Enfeebling shurikens?
seriously?
I'm pretty sure ninja already has spells for that (~.~; )
Can we please have less fail in the official forums? SE is probably reading this.

[Ezikiel]

Enfeebling shurikens?
seriously?
I'm pretty sure ninja already has spells for that (~.~; )
Can we please have less fail in the official forums? SE is probably reading this.

ok rude but funny LMAO

[Nattack]

Affordable shuriken recipies that dont use a full sheet of darksteel for only 33 shuriken. Ninja-based Throwing weaponskills that have some use and could sway a ninja from using Blade Jin sometimes. I think I've used it some 7000 times.

shuriken that arent rare and appear past level 61, and dont show up as a result of 1 per quest, per vanadiel day. * Scouting the Ashu Talif
Royal Painter Escort
Targeting the Captain

in which you can make 3 koga shuriken per day maybe. it would take 33 days to make a full stack by yourself, if you were super lucky, to make a stack of koga shuriken.

how long does it take a ranger to use a full stack of arrows/bolts?
the consumption rate on these is highly impractical. Ninja needed something before the introduction of abyssea badly just to keep up. but it never came!


I like throwing, and sange, I really do. So much so I got bored one day and levelled it from 80 to 240.

It's nice, throwing damage has insane DPS. except for the fact that even when they introduced sange, nobody ever used Throwing for anything except sky gods. and that was by rangers.

[Bulrogg]

Really, there are ninja spells that enfeeble? ... I don't see how anything is fail on this forum other than you and other trolls attitudes and remarks to the follow community members.

It's not unrealistic to see a ninja throwing poison darts is it? Other ammo has enfeebles on them. Why not on throwing stars too? No, not the same enfeebles ninja already have the spells for. Maybe a Bind, Sleep, Dispel, Terror, Stun. Who knows. It just seems like Throwing is sort of over looked and could be improved upon.

[Nattack]

Really, there are ninja spells that enfeeble? ... I don't see how anything is fail on this forum other than you and other trolls attitudes and remarks to the follow community members.

It's not unrealistic to see a ninja throwing poison darts is it? Other ammo has enfeebles on them. Why not on throwing stars too? No, not the same enfeebles ninja already have the spells for. Maybe a Bind, Sleep, Dispel, Terror, Stun. Who knows. It just seems like Throwing is sort of over looked and could be improved upon.

last i checked nobody was following a lead here, fellow.

that being said, there are already poison/sleep darts.
if you take a look at shuriken, the thing they need most is a place post level 60, they just kind of stop there.

but the synthesis recipe for shuriken has always been a little bit impractical. one full ingot means 33-99 shuriken. the price is unfairly high, even now. i don't mind if they cost a little more than bolts or arrows, but i would at least be able to throw one and still be able to pay for these ninja tools.

[Bulrogg]

Not sure what lead you are talking about. I was talking to the other guy but my sarcasm doesn't translate into type as well as speak. I was trying to say that we all know ninja enfeebles already and was suggesting to add additional effects to a new arsenal of shurikens. I knew there were sleep bolts but I only referenced sleep/poison darts from outside of FFXI as an example.

I too would like to see some sort of affordable shurikens added. Maybe use a base craft recipe for new ones and then for the added effect ones you could have one more synth material used for the enfeeble you want. I just thought it would be a nice addition to throwing and give us access to some, not all, of the enfeebles we don't already have under our tool-belt.

Some form of recycle would be nice too.

[Haglaz]

lol...er, if i'm not wrong...and i'm not. Ninja was started as the ultamate puller, for end game content, waaaaaay back in the day. which is why we have such good throwing, and our AF mirrors the ranged/throwing stats.

[wish12oz]

Unless they make really, really good shurikens, that are also very cheap to make, throwing them will lower your melee damage and cost to much gil for anyone to give a crap about it. And unless they make throwing WS's that are superior to existing katana WS's, no one will use them.

Given SE's track record, I highly doubt they add anything worth using, even if you people beg for throwing WS's. So instead of asking for useless stuff like throwing WS's and new shurikens, when in the end it's just going to be a waste of time, how about we focus on real problems with the games job system, like how terrible sam, drk, rng and pld currently are. Ninja is perfectly fine the way it is right now, and will not have any problems in the future unless they make us go back to fighting really hard stuff, in which case the job will suffer from low acc and overall damage compared to other DDs.

I was about to reply to this, then I realized I already did.


EDIT: You are incorrect, ninja was not designed as an endgame puller. It was suppose to be a new jack-of-all-trades type job, like rdm, but it failed at that.

[Fyreus]

I'd only like to see Shuriken with effects such as bleed (seperate type of -def or -mob attack and gravity or whatever you'd want to see bleed effects do IF you would like to see bleed lol), bind, poison, sleep, elemental DoT, and a sange that's on a much much lower timer or some sort of ability that adds another shuriken to your next throwing attack such as boost or something if they were to take another look at throwing.

If they added something like a shadowbind that allowed us to sit back and throw just outside of some safe range then go ahead and get it done :D

[JiltedValkyrie]

Or just make throwing much stronger and have sange NOT consume your shadows, but still work based on the number of shadows up. I really ought to test out Sange with my Iga Kyahan +2 and Utsusemi: Ni on. Too bad there are never any shuriken, and if there are, they are way too expensive.

[Orenwald]

I would love to see a lvl 60 smithing lvl 60 alchemy combo for a new set of shurikens. 1 tama-Hagane 1 Cerment Chunk
NQ 66 HQ1 99 HQ2 99...etc. Call it Iga Shuriken since the last one was Koga after the relic armor sets name.

Iga Shuriken: 96dmg 192dly lvl85 I dont think its so far fetched and it would be nice to have a dual craft item that isnt max craft of a specific skill. If its going to be synergy then just do away with the 66 NQ and make it a full 99 each time.

if it's synergy it would be 99NQ 198HQ1 297HQ2 like all the other ammo :O (omm nom nom Fusion Bolts)

[Bulrogg]

I really ought to test out Sange with my Iga Kyahan +2 and Utsusemi: Ni on.

I usually pick up cheap shurikens from the Tenshindo when I'm in town. Was doing Briareus the other night and opened with a :Ni Sange (w/ Iga Kyahan +2) the dmg was somewhere in the 500 range. I thought it was pretty good for being the weakest throwing stars around. But let it be said, I'm not one of those that play FFXI for the math of it. I just like to have fun and my idea of pretty good damage is most likely another's idea of weak sauce damage.

[wish12oz]

I usually pick up cheap shurikens from the Tenshindo when I'm in town. Was doing Briareus the other night and opened with a :Ni Sange (w/ Iga Kyahan +2) the dmg was somewhere in the 500 range.

And this is my exact problem with throwing illustrated, with marches and haste you're missing 2 attack rounds (maybe even 3, possibly up to 5 attack rounds lost if you want to count recasting utsusemi) doing that sange, and the 2 attack rounds would do more damage. Counting my DA/TA rate, crit rate, that would be about 600-800 damage I missed losing 2 attack rounds, and that's if empyrean aftermath doesn't kick in on any of the hits. With 5 lost rounds, you're talking 1500->2k+ damage, and at least 50% tp, so you're half a weapon skill behind where you could be.

I understand you were using weak throwing weapons, but even if you had good throwing weapons, I don't see it doing all that much more, and if it's not going to do more damage then you're currently doing, and it's taking your shadows, why would you use it?

[Karumac]

I understand you were using weak throwing weapons, but even if you had good throwing weapons, I don't see it doing all that much more, and if it's not going to do more damage then you're currently doing, and it's taking your shadows, why would you use it?

Do it for fun?

[wish12oz]

Do it for fun?

My idea of fun is being the person everyone looks at and thinks "That person is awesome and killed that whatevermob super fast and is awesome at this game." If you're idea of fun is making other people wait around to pop stuff cause you're killing it slow, I pray to God we don't ever meet in game and I have to wait for you to kill something.

[Bubeeky]

I'd love to see Throwing improved on....if for no other reason than to give us something else sharp and dangerous to hurt ourselves with :)

[JiltedValkyrie]

The higher level shuriken actually make a huge difference in damage dealt. Pretty sure you can do over 2k with good ones in Abyssea, if not much higher. Especially with +2 feet. Also, enjoy tossing tens of thousands of gil at once. :p

[Niklz]

wish i could throw junk items at enemies.
like a revival tree root.

...poke em in the eye

[Darwena]

Sange was nice before Abyssea, get the lv48 Shuriken was pretty bad ass DMG in that time against some bad ass mob you had to stay away. now with the super perma 1000 katana in abyssea, shuriken kinda lost is charm now. the god point: less gils to spend on them now ;p

[Bustax]

The WS Throwing idea is nice, but I dunno if SE would actually do it.

What I'd really want is new, short delay, stronger (high dmg) shirukens, stackable to 99, and the greatest thing that would give shirukens a greater appeal to me would be if they don't interrupt your regular attacks, meaning no extra delay for you next attack. Matter of fact, an idea comes to mind, something like en-shiruken, for every melee attack consume a shiruken to do extra damage, and create a job trait like Sange to help you save shirukens.

Somebody mentioned NIN being the ultimate puller, that's absurd, taking in consideration that the best range for shirukens are close range, almost as close as regular melee hits.

[wish12oz]

Sange was nice before Abyssea, get the lv48 Shuriken was pretty bad ass DMG in that time against some bad ass mob you had to stay away. now with the super perma 1000 katana in abyssea, shuriken kinda lost is charm now. the god point: less gils to spend on them now ;p

Abyssea doesn't have much to do with ninja attacking fast, unless you meant gear wise? ninja did gain 3 haste and 5 dual weild.



Somebody mentioned NIN being the ultimate puller, that's absurd, taking in consideration that the best range for shirukens are close range, almost as close as regular melee hits.

The correct range for throwing is right next to the mob.

[Akujima]

And this is my exact problem with throwing illustrated, with marches and haste you're missing 2 attack rounds (maybe even 3, possibly up to 5 attack rounds lost if you want to count recasting utsusemi) doing that sange, and the 2 attack rounds would do more damage. Counting my DA/TA rate, crit rate, that would be about 600-800 damage I missed losing 2 attack rounds, and that's if empyrean aftermath doesn't kick in on any of the hits. With 5 lost rounds, you're talking 1500->2k+ damage, and at least 50% tp, so you're half a weapon skill behind where you could be.

I understand you were using weak throwing weapons, but even if you had good throwing weapons, I don't see it doing all that much more, and if it's not going to do more damage then you're currently doing, and it's taking your shadows, why would you use it?

you're assuming that EVERY battle you're going to stay in melee range, and not have to back away from a bosses AoE or, possibly a flying boss that only ranged and magic work on, wherein shuriken can be really useful for NIN being able to get in some extra dmg. And NIN failing at being a jack of all trades melee? Did you miss something, or do you even play NIN? Tank. Gear switch -> Melee. Gear switch -> Ninjutsu DD. Gear Switch -> (Now this is where we need improved ranged capabilities)

Tell me some more things about job abilities, and your stereotypical "You Fail" posts. I got kicked from a PT for being MNK/DRG at Lv41 without even proving how much dmg I could do, lets see if you can figure out the gear combinations for that one.

[wish12oz]

Did you miss something, or do you even play NIN? Tank. Gear switch -> Melee. Gear switch -> Ninjutsu DD. Gear Switch -> (Now this is where we need improved ranged capabilities)


This is where I became aware you had no idea what you were doing. Good ninjas don't have separate sets for meleeing and tanking, since DD tanking has been the only thing ninja has been good at since 2006 when pld/nin overtook nin/drk for hard fights you can't DD tank. Not to mention that fact that pretty much everything is done in abyssea these days, and you DD tank everything in there. Even the things outside abyssea are DD tanked now, since that's always worked best on weaker mobs, and everything outside is now under that description since gaining 15 levels. The other day, I killed King Behemoth for instance, we had 5 people, and straight tanked it the whole time with DDs.

[Akujima]

This is where I became aware you had no idea what you were doing. Good ninjas don't have separate sets for meleeing and tanking.

ok great you called me on a technicality, im actually going to agree with you for once on this, as pre-abyss I used to Tank with a Haubergeon. "Melee" should technically be "WS gear", and whatever else there is, Haste gear, and Evasion gear, blah blah, etc.

But here is where the narrow view comes in, where people seem to think that its fun to just smash stuff like a caveman, without having to account for the situational and circumstantial battles that occur. Something which has been less prevalent in FFXI these days, or is that what you opt for?

Although I find it quite absurd why anyone would want something tasteless and bland, unless you enjoy prison food. I say stop the de-evolution and re-integrate dynamic tactics and depth of involvement. Otherwise it will just turn into pushing 1 button to win the game. Gratz.

[wish12oz]

But here is where the narrow view comes in, where people seem to think that its fun to just smash stuff like a caveman, without having to account for the situational and circumstantial battles that occur. Something which has been less prevalent in FFXI these days, or is that what you opt for?


These situations do not occur. Your point has no relevancy. If you want to do something different, it's best to play a different job, rather then complain you want SE to change an existing job from the way it's worked since being introduced.


Although I find it quite absurd why anyone would want something tasteless and bland,
If you don't like the job, don't play it.

[Bulrogg]

These situations do not occur.

Are you fighting the same mob over and over? I have gone up against many mobs that are best kept distance from; and while keeping at a safe distance I toss a few :Ni/:San and yes; even shuriken.

If you aren't fighting a mob like that I see your point. But some people are and they would like to see an adjustment to some of Ninjas ranged attacking methods (Elemental and Throwing).

Is not fighting those mobs an excuse to have a closed mine and not see situations where a made adjustment can be useful?

I am more on the fence about throwing than ever before... but I would like to see (from both sides of the community) is the posters here stop imposing their playing style on everyone else. We have to get over the fact that not every person/party/alliance/linkshell fight/kite/kill the same mobs the same way.

All of this bickering and telling people to go do such-n-such or play another job is just a lot of negativity and going to get threads closed. That is why I keep asking people to bite their cheek in their replies. Make your point and hit reply before saying something that gets the thread closed or you banned.

What ever happened to "if can't say something nice...?" (I always preferred "speak like your grandmother is listening" cause my granny didn't put up with anything lol)

[wish12oz]

Are you fighting the same mob over and over? I have gone up against many mobs that are best kept distance from; and while keeping at a safe distance I toss a few :Ni/:San and yes; even shuriken.

If you aren't fighting a mob like that I see your point. But some people are and they would like to see an adjustment to some of Ninjas ranged attacking methods (Elemental and Throwing).


Why don't you tell me what you're fighting by kiting it, using weak nukes and throwing bad shurikens at it, so I can tell you "you're doing it wrong, straight tank it and kill it faster." There is nothing in the game currently that you need to fight like this, except Cuelebre, because it flys and you cant actually melee it. Not only do you not need to fight anything like this, but it is highly inefficient to fight things like this, since straight tanking makes things die faster, and for anything worth anything right now, time matters. The "I can't stand next to the mob" excuse is not valid at all.

So, tell me what you're kiting, and I will tell you why you don't need to.

[Akujima]

Why don't you tell me what you're fighting by kiting it, using weak nukes and throwing bad shurikens at it, so I can tell you "you're doing it wrong, straight tank it and kill it faster."

You have obviously missed the entire point, and just went straight back to your personal perception being the all in all. This just proves that it's clearly a waste of time trying to have a healthy debate here.

[Bulrogg]

We have to get over the fact that not every person/party/alliance/linkshell fight/kite/kill the same mobs the same way.

It doesn't matter what mob we are "doing wrong" we are doing it the way we see fit. It's our monthly fee, so we will skin the cat our way. And "In" before "I hope I'm not in line" etc.... because if you're in line for a mob behind us, you'll just have to wait because we all don't do things the same way.

[Akujima]

It doesn't matter what mob we are "doing wrong" we are doing it the way we see fit. It's our monthly fee, so we will skin the cat our way. And "In" before "I hope I'm not in line" etc.... because if you're in line for a mob behind us, you'll just have to wait because we all don't do things the same way.

Bulrogg, wish12oz seems to think that we are on here tooting our horn at how good Throwing and Ninjutsu currently are, rather than seeing the obvious, about how we are opting for improvements in those respective abilities/skills.

[wish12oz]

Ya, we don't all do things the same way, some people like to waste everyone else's time. Saying it's your monthly fee is also irrelevant, because everyone waiting on you to finish, is also paying monthly fee's! You are also right, there is lots of ways to do things, but, there is only one quick and efficient way to kill things, because one way will always be the fastest, and that is the correct way to do things.

[Bulrogg]

Throwing is situaional at best. It could be updated to make it more than that. I am for this update.

Do things your way and just hope you don't get stuck waiting for a ??? behind me. I play the game for enjoyment with the style I choose. So sorry it offends you and your mantra of 'only one way things should be done'.

[Akujima]

...because one way will always be the fastest, and that is the correct way to do things.

Sounds like dogmatic religiosity to me.

You're also assuming "Fastest" to mean the same thing as "Correct"

Ever hear the story of the tortoise and the hare?

[wish12oz]

Throwing is situaional at best. It could be updated to make it more than that. I am for this update.

Do things your way and just hope you don't get stuck waiting for a ??? behind me. I play the game for enjoyment with the style I choose. So sorry it offends you and your mantra of 'only one way things should be done'.

It cannot be updated to anything beyond a low level damage tool until they make haste affect ranged attacks, which they basically refuse to do, so it will never be good or useful. The only other way they could fix it is to add throwing weapons with 200+ damage, 100delay and 50 snapshot. That option is also pretty much never going to happen, ever, get over it. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]


Sounds like dogmatic religiosity to me.

You're also assuming "Fastest" to mean the same thing as "Correct"

Ever hear the story of the tortoise and the hare?

I have heard that story, and it is also irrelevant because the rabbit was stupid. If the rabbit would of just ran straight to the finish line and won, it would relate to this discussion.

Yes, it's dogmatic, and yes it is also correct, [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).] you will also accomplish a lot more with your LS if you can kill things faster. Accomplishing more is better then accomplishing less isn't it? or did I somehow end up in bizarro world....

[Akujima]

Accomplishing more is better then accomplishing less isn't it? or did I somehow end up in bizarro world....

Accomplishing more of what exactly?

[wish12oz]

Accomplishing more of what exactly?

Anything.

But generally accomplishments are viewed as mobs you defeated (not so much anymore) and items received/gotten for others.

What I am saying is, your end game LS could get twice as much done as they do now, if you played correctly. By correctly, I mean, killed stuff as fast as possible, instead of dragging your feet and using throwing items, drk dds, pld tanks, kiting stuff you don't need to kite, or whatever inefficient stuff you're doing.

Tell you what, ask your LS if everyone would rather spend the next month gearing 1 job for everyone, or gearing half a job for everyone. I bet you none of them want to get only half a job done, which is basically what you're suggesting by saying doing things quickly and efficiently is bad.

[Akujima]

Tell you what, ask your LS if everyone would rather spend the next month gearing 1 job for everyone, or gearing half a job for everyone. I bet you none of them want to get only half a job done, which is basically what you're suggesting by saying doing things quickly and efficiently is bad.

Now look at it this way.

Ask your LS if everyone would rather spend the next month gearing 1 job for everyone, but there will be constant arguing and bickering at eachother, a few LS members leave because of constant LS drama, and it feels like we're going to work a 9-5 job in a video game.

or

Gearing half a job for everyone, while some LS members get to know each other some more, and have some interesting discussions, make friends, build a sense of cooperation and teamwork, have fun playing with one another and learning each others play styles, and at the end of it all, feel a sense of accomplishment together for completing a challenging battle.

Your choice.

But if the quick road to more and better items is draining and only gives me a headache, and the acquisition of material goods strips away from whats most important in life: actually having fun, together. Count me out.

[Greatguardian]

I dunno.

Me and my friends get stuff done and all have at least one Empyrean weapon.

But we have fun.

What could that possibly mean?

Oh yeah. People who don't run around with massive inferiority complexes, linking being good at FFXI to being a jackass, already understand that the two are completely independent concepts. There are jackass, workaholic noobs (TONS). There are chill, laid back elites (eg: everyone I associate myself with, and there are plenty). The only thing you're spreading is ignorance.

People like you are part of the problem, not the solution.

[Akujima]

People like you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Tell me then, what is the solution?

[Greatguardian]

I thought that was already fairly explicit. You can be good at the game and still have fun. That is the solution.

Perpetuating the myth that it's impossible to do both just justifies people like you who refuse to bother learning the game because it's "wrong" as opposed to "having friends" which is "right".

[wish12oz]

Perpetuating the myth that it's impossible to do both just justifies people like you who refuse to bother learning the game because it's "wrong" as opposed to "having friends" which is "right".
I stopped feeling the need to reply to this thread after seeing GG's posts. What more needs to be said?

Also: I get along with everyone in my group of friends/LS, and we have lots of fun, and we're super effing amazing.

[Akujima]

I thought that was already fairly explicit. You can be good at the game and still have fun. That is the solution.

Yea, but your perception of being "good at the game" differs from my perception of being "good at the game".

To you, if I can't keep up damage on the charts high enough, because my gear isn't all +2's and I'm not using the "right" subjob, I'm "bad at the game"

To me, If I'm having fun playing and I enjoy the idea of having dynamic situational abilities, and feel like I'm actually playing a "Ninja job" and having FUN doing it. I'm "good at the game"

To you, I'm just a workaholic noob, with an inferiority complex whom you can toss Naruto insults at because you're the cool laid back elite.

Anyways, this is just another mind %@#&

[Greatguardian]

Being good at FFXI is not subjective.

Enjoying FFXI? Sure. But if you can't be good at FFXI and still enjoy it, it's a personal problem.

There's a time and place for dicking around on NIN/RNG. I've messed around with it, sure. Same with some other weirdo job combos; MNK/PLD comes to mind (and wasn't too bad at the time), same with WHM/PLD. But I dicked around with them on my own time, in the middle of nowhere, where I wasn't negatively affecting anyone else's gameplay. I had some fun experimenting, and no one else got screwed because of it.

When other people's playtime is being influenced by me? If I'm in a busy zone, or in a group? You bet your ass I'm going to perform to the best of my ability, even if it means doing something the "Cookie Cutter" way. I still have fun because I enjoy the company of the people I'm around, and I enjoy accomplishing things with them. I could care less what job I'm on, or what strat I'm using, because those are completely independent of the fun for me in a cooperative multiplayer game.

[Akujima]

Being good at FFXI is not subjective.

Enjoying FFXI? Sure. But if you can't be good at FFXI and still enjoy it, it's a personal problem.

Oh I'm sure, I bet nothing is subjective at all.

Actually, doing things the "cookie cutter" way all the time, and standing in 1 spot pounding 1~2 macro's get's extremely boring after awhile. Also begging the LS to help me camp empyrean weapon (because the competition for NM's is up to the eyeballs in campers) so I don't "suck", gives me a headache. Not to mention showing up on schedule for an event (sound like work at all?) otherwise I'll be deducted points and be excluded from all the sweet sweet gear, that usually goes to 2~3 "uber cool" people in the LS anyways.

And I thought I was suppose to be the "Workaholic Noob"...

All that stuff might be fun to you, but it feels like I'm smashing my head against the wall just to "get things done". You want to correlate efficiency with mind numbing repetition, go ahead. But if I have "personal problems" because I don't like logging into a video game and feeling like I'm at work, then by all means, I await your next reply with the predictable Naruto insult.


EDIT: Cooperative multiplayer game? Wrong. FFXI has changed from Cooperative to Competitive. If you fail to know the difference between those two words, it helps to skill up in "English".

[Greatguardian]

What? You don't like point systems?

Okay. Get a different Linkshell.

While I am a sack in one of the most successful NA linkshells on my server, it's not like I'm not allowed to have my own Abyssea group too. It takes all of 3 people to do anything in Abyssea; 6 including mules if you want to absolutely cover every base at once. If you don't like the rules, go do shit with your friends instead. I mean, you're supposed to have way more friends than me, right? If so, that shouldn't be a problem at all.

Also, honestly I'd want to kick someone who sat around begging in the linkshell for help camping Empyrean items. Any NIN worth half a grain of salt can solo Briareus and his entire pop set. Getting people for Sobek is a no-brainer too, unless your entire server already has capped Stones of Balance (lol). I swear, people get less done when they moan and beg in ls chat waiting for someone to volunteer than when they just suck it up and do the NMs. People are a lot more willing to help someone with an ounce of initiative and self-reliance, too.

[wish12oz]

Since you're trying to argue this in like 8 threads, I'm posting the same response in all of them so I know you see it.

I'm gonna spell this out for you, try not to get lost, read it til you get it.
Manji Shuriken have a 192 delay.
Kannagi+Kamome have a combined (210+180) 390 delay.
When you hit the delay reduction cap of 80%, this becomes a new delay of 78.
78+78=156, you get slightly more then 2 melee attacks rounds per throw.(throwing delay is 192)
with apoc, /war, brutal, eponas you have triple attack+18%, double attack+18%, which means 54% of the time, you get an extra attack per melee round.
So at +54% melee attacks per round, every time you attack, you get 1 extra attack, because you attack twice every round.
you get slightly more then 2 attack rounds per throw, you get 3 attacks per round.
Your throwing damage needs to be slightly better then 6 melee attacks and give as much tp as 6 melee attacks to be on par with just meleeing.
Throwing comes no where near either of these 2 things, and never will, it's impossible unless they make haste affect ranged attacks.

Argue against me, go ahead.