Will there be future low man content?

[Fishyface]

Hello, ive been a long time casual ffxi player off and on since 2004. And during that time ive always enjoyed doing content with a small group of friends (3-6 people). There wasnt that much content that supported that until abyssea. Abyssea is what brought me back in 2011 from a 3 year break because i had heard that most things within the event could be done with just a few people.

Well abyssea has been out for some time now, and im far from being done with getting gear or even completing my first emp weapon at this point. I have however beaten the content itself and gotten a majority of the good atmas.

I was wondering besides revamping some of the old events to be lowman (dynamis revamp has been great so far, i never got to experience the content until now thanks SE) will there be any new kind of new lowman content for me and my friends?

Just a shameless plug: a revamp of campaign would be great because i missed out on doing alot of the wotg campaign stuff when it was fresh. :)

[Economizer]

I was wondering besides revamping some of the old events to be lowman (dynamis revamp has been great so far, i never got to experience the content until now thanks SE) will there be any new kind of new lowman content for me and my friends?

Just a shameless plug: a revamp of campaign would be great because i missed out on doing alot of the wotg campaign stuff when it was fresh. :)

Well Nyzul and Assault are still for 3-6 people!

They're also making a new variant of Nyzul, and adjusting WoE a bit. Some of the Walk of Echoes walks can be done with six people. And if your group is all from the same nation and are super dedicated you can actually take a few areas if you work at it as a team, but that's probably not what you mean.

Limbus and a good chunk of the Sea/Sky stuff can be done with six people or less as well.

[Fishyface]

Well Nyzul and Assault are still for 3-6 people!

They're also making a new variant of Nyzul, and adjusting WoE a bit. Some of the Walk of Echoes walks can be done with six people. And if your group is all from the same nation and are super dedicated you can actually take a few areas if you work at it as a team, but that's probably not what you mean.

Limbus and a good chunk of the Sea/Sky stuff can be done with six people or less as well.

Ya from what i can tell it is in the works for sky/sea and stuff like that to be revamped into low man content for the casual player like the limbus and einherjar revamp that is incoming. But im more of asking will the dev team spend any time making new lowman content like they did with abyssea that has a path of gear progression for lv 99s.

Im not really asking for gear that is superior or equal to content for 18 people, rather just asking for possibly some side-grades at most.

[Luvbunny]

Seems like the overall plan is to revive alliance style content, voidwatch and the upcoming Legion is a good example. Most of the lawman contents are the older ones and abyssea. Doesn't seem like they are too big on the low man content anymore and focusing on the alliance style, at least for now.

[Crawlerbasher]

well at level 99 all the story's and expansion can be now be done with a low amount of ppl and in some cases soloable to a point

[Fishyface]

well at level 99 all the story's and expansion can be now be done with a low amount of ppl and in some cases soloable to a point

Thats all fine and dandy, i still have plenty of that left to do but that not really what im talking about. Im wondering if future content will be created lets say akin to abyssea that provides some additional gear progression for low man groups, or something to that effect.

Just pointing out im not talking about content currently in game, im asking about future content.

[Helel]

Have you seen the nyzul gear...? Nyzul cannot be done with more than 6 people so what exactly are you complaining about?

[Fishyface]

Have you seen the nyzul gear...? Nyzul cannot be done with more than 6 people so what exactly are you complaining about?

Not complaining, just inquiring about future updates.

[Seriha]

I'd hold opinion on Nyzul gear until it's actually on the live servers. Overall, the limitations imposed by the Assault Tag system also put up a bit of a roadblock for those who may largely be done with their own Abyssea needs, but have no interest in Voidwatch or Legion. Wanting more low-man friendly content is a valid concern when you're mostly looking at a daily half hour tops of pseudo-fresh content.

[Runespider]

They don't really know what they want to do, we have had so many differing messages over the last coupe of years. I still remember the announcement of the increase in level cap so that content could be done with fewer players due to a smaller playerbase and easy of access to content, larger buffs with JA and gear making each player stronger to make fights in smaller groups work better...now it's going back to a small cog in a large machine thinking with stuff like Legion.

I think Legion will be a flop personally, I don't think the desire is there among enough players to put up with thsi kind of heavily structured large player content again. We will see I guess.

[Rezeak]

I think new Nyzle > Salvage > Limbus is the all SE is probably planning on new low man content atm since it's the easiest way to give players the most content

As for the future they said there designing a new zone maybe they make some of the NMs low mannible iono

So far it's still small group stuff outside VW but VW system works because anyone can start a shout which is aided massivily by the 1 person 1 box system

As for legion i dunno how the drops will work but if it's all points then /sh groups go go lol.

[Dazusu]

Will the dev team spend any time making new lowman content like they did with abyssea that has a path of gear progression for lv 99s.

Level 99 is (at the moment) the 'final cap' of vertical advancement, so the climb to 'perfection' in gear will be a long path as it was when the 'final cap' was 75. If its handed to us much like it was in Abyssea, there will be no reason to stick around once your gear is complete and perfect. As much as we like to proclaim that's not why we play, having completed gear sets with no real ugprades takes away a lot from the point of the game.

It seems unlikely we'll ever go back to the spawned HNM system due to 95% of the player base detesting it, so we get random-drop Voidwatch and Legion - and that will provide the same rate of upgrade I would assume -- or at least significantly slower than Abyssea was.

Still, there's revamped Salvage, Nyzul, Limbus, and Einherjar to look forward to - who knows what gems they're going to hold for us? I'm hoping for Morrigan's Robe +1, though!


I think Legion will be a flop personally, I don't think the desire is there among enough players to put up with thsi kind of heavily structured large player content again. We will see I guess.

I hope you're wrong. It's the reason I reactivated after a year away. I miss content that is actually worthy of the stamp "MMO", most recent content felt like a 1-4 player co-op RPG

[Mahoro]

Same Dazusu. Well, judging by the feedback on this thread, where even the players who asked for some tweaks still thought the event was fun, the odds looks good.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20579-Feedback-from-Test-Server-Feedback-Event-Legion

[Runespider]

Same Dazusu. Well, judging by the feedback on this thread, where even the players who asked for some tweaks still thought the event was fun, the odds looks good.

You will see a big difference from the kind of responses you get from a testing event as opposed to an event people want gear from (which is the main reason people do anything in an MMO). Most will take wiping lightly and enjoy the spectacle etc in a testing enviroment and not so much on the live version.

Are they adding this on tuesday now is it being added in a future update? Still seems to need quite a lot of work.

[Mahoro]

There has never been a successful event in this game where people didn't wipe the first few times? My mistake.:cool:

[Seriha]

Don't think Legion's coming this VU. And for now, as long as we're left believing Legion Point items won't be as good as those the monsters themselves inside drop, it's hard to be super-excited since such a point system doesn't address the reason why people hate doing an event after going 0/<Unreasonably Big Number> with no drop. Or in this case, being potentially outlotted or screwed by LS point systems if you can't play as much as a shellmate wanting the same.

[Mahoro]

I thought people wanted shared loot pools after VWNM.

I'd hate to be an FF dev :(

[Malamasala]

Level 99 is (at the moment) the 'final cap' of vertical advancement, so the climb to 'perfection' in gear will be a long path as it was when the 'final cap' was 75. If its handed to us much like it was in Abyssea, there will be no reason to stick around once your gear is complete and perfect. As much as we like to proclaim that's not why we play, having completed gear sets with no real ugprades takes away a lot from the point of the game.

I'd dare say people quit when the game gets boring, not when they have collected all armors/weapons. It may be because it takes to long to get armors, it may be because the game is boring and collecting armors was the only thing to do in it. Regardless everyone quits at some point, and it usually is not related to "getting everything".

[Ravenmore]

I think that was the whole point of allowing easy leveling in abyssea. You now have another job to collect gear for and so tieing the players up by giving them so much they could do. That is what they need again 3 or 4 brand new events not rehashs that offer so much gear but spread out at reasonalbe drop rates when that starts slowing down you add more. Does it cost them more money yes but giving players the feeling they are making head way while over whelming them with new content is better in the long run them 1% drops out 1 or 2 events that you need 18+ to do.

[Seriha]

I thought people wanted shared loot pools after VWNM.

I'd hate to be an FF dev :(

People wanted rewarded for their time. Somewhere along the way SE got the idea that dividing a 2% drop rate by 18 for personal pools because someone walking away with dozens of items would suck. Some have the mistaken idea that the shared loot pool is a better solution, but that's only true if actual drop rates are high enough to satisfy the demand. Otherwise, seeing it, but not getting it, is no different than it never loading in your chest.

I brought up the superiority of a game-run point system over player-run because it completely lacks discrimination. If there's something you want, the goal's right in front of you. A piece of gear could translate to 30 individual Legion mob kills. If you want to be generous and estimate 6 kills per run once people get a better feel for things, that would mean 5 runs, or 2.5 hours for a piece of gear. Maybe a bit on the low side for some peoples' preference, but if we consider people play multiple jobs on a single character, just outfitting the visible slots would take 12.5 hours, potentially multiplied by 3 with SE's fondness of job groupings. Actual accessory and weapon expenses will add an additional time sink if they're things worth going after.

There's also the added element of gil expenses tying into the actual man hours these items run for. Food, ammo, tools, and meds all add up if they're needed. For every 2 runs, you might need to farm an hour to cover these alongside Legion's actual entry fee, which on its own varies depending on how many you enter with. Contrary to the opinions of some, not everyone's swimming in a pool of gil or has the time to farm Dynamis daily for a few hundred k.

Basically, making everyone happy is a tough job, but I'm of the mind that designing reward acquisition around those who play a lot is not the best way to go. For those who can't match those demands, not bothering, or even outright cancelling their sub is a risk.

[Mahoro]

Then people will have to see the drop rates and then decide whether to do the events in PUGs where they list a desired drop in their /sea comment, or join/form LS's to do the content in a more structured fashion. Been like that for most every event in FFXI's history. As of now, nobody has even beat a final boss on the test server so drop rate information isn't entirely clear.

[Seriha]

Trouble with PUGs is when something is found to be rare enough, people may abandon their listed comments and try to ninja it anyway. Naturally, they'll have meant to pass, or try to ninja-edit their comment, but the consequences aren't really as damning as some may want to insinuate. On the LS front, I'm reminded of policies in the old days where jobs like PLD would be given priority on things like Crimson Cuisses even though you may've had a RDM around with enough or more points to bid on them. This isn't to say there won't be gear that's better suited for one job over another, but when those waters get murky, you risk drama that can be easily avoided if everyone's just rewarded equally and left to spend their points at their discretion.

[Mahoro]

1) Leader writes down all /sea comments at start.
2) The /sh community for stuff like VW (and likely Legion) on each server is not that big, ninja looters will likely be castigated and blackballed from those events pretty fast.
3) How is this different from any other event again?

Point about LS priority is well taken, it depends on the piece. In my own LS, we do some job-based priorities for a certain percentage of items where the item is clearly suited for one job. The other stuff is just "you have the points, you get to lot".

[Seriha]

Can't ninja someone else's VW/WoE chest and while it can happen in Abyssea content, things aren't rare enough to have people going 0/a lot. For now, we're unsure if the Legion-specific drops are relegated per mob or if they all wind up sharing a loot table. From the rarity perspective, this means you may have bad luck seeing the mob you want to kill or you might get a situation where there are 5 body armors, but a 5% chance for one to load, making it something like 1% to get the given piece you're after if all distribution is fair.

[Mahoro]

The ninja point was re: size of /sh community, not which events could be ninja'd. After awhile doing VW in /sh contexts, you kept seeing the same people over and over again. Reputation spreads like wildfire these days as the playerbase shrinks. I guess I am not overly worried about ninja lotting.

I assume the Legion-specific drops are per mob, but that assumption admittedly comes from SE precedent so it'd be nice if it were different.

[Nakts]

how it will go:
the leader writes down the comments
the leader calculates points
your stuff drops
the leader's gf decides it would look better on her mannequin than on you
you're out of luck
everyone else lols

[Runespider]

It needs to be toned down in difficulty or to scale properly to be a challenge for as many people as possible, no mass amounts of dev time on content for the top few % please, we only have a small dev team and every bit of content matters. If the vast majority of the playerbase are bored they will quit and I'd rather not see this game lose any more subscribers, I hope they aren't going to make it ultra difficult for 6 months and then tone it down either (like Ein)..cause they will lose a ton of players that won't be willing to wait around incase they make it viable later on. People are bored and hungering for new content now, WoE didn't cut it and VW didn't cut it for most players either..Abyssea can only sustain people so long.

It needs to not be a massive drain on gil to make us "work" making more to pay for it like old events (i did that at 75 with dyna/limbu/ein) and honestly is sucked hard and I don't think people will want to go back to that now. Give it a VW/Abyssea stone system and let people pay if they want to do more than the daily allowance, as with VW.

It needs to have no drops from the mobs at all, but points from each kill that you can turn in to an NPC for your gear. This is THE best drop system an MMO can have for such massive scale content because it's fair, lets everyone feel rewarded for everything they do in Legion and makes it pug friendly. Ninja lotting will be rife if they drop as killed, nobody will trust anyone else and this will kill off PuGs, PuGs are the best thing to happen to XI in a long time and I hope they arent so out of touch with the playerbase to not see that.

If this ends up being LS only content that is so hard that only the top few in the biggest shells can do it then it will end up just pissing off the vast majority of the players.


how it will go:
the leader writes down the comments
the leader calculates points
your stuff drops
the leader's gf decides it would look better on her mannequin than on you
you're out of luck
everyone else lols

This used to happen quite a lot in the past and it happend so much cause the content was so exclusive that if you complained you would be kicked and be out of luck finding another ls, there were only a very few shells that did serious endgame at 75. I worry legion will turn into the content (like HNM) that made people do other stuff for their leaders as slaves, like getting relics for them (or doing final stage relic trials) in order to get points to lot stuff in the content they wanted to do.

[Yarly]

Legion is just going to be filled with a bunch of solo beastmasters anyway.

[Mahoro]

how it will go:
the leader writes down the comments
the leader calculates points
your stuff drops
the leader's gf decides it would look better on her mannequin than on you
you're out of luck
everyone else lols

You forgot the last step there. You slap yourself silly for not doing your research properly and willingly subjecting yourself to a LS like that. Then you tell everyone on a message board what happened 6 years later without ascribing any blame at all to yourself.

[detlef]

Legion is just going to be filled with a bunch of solo beastmasters anyway.
That's 360k per run on top of expenses so I doubt it.

[Fishyface]

You know since they are going to add an 18 and 36 man version of legion, i wonder if they could add a 6 or 3 person legion for people like myself. You dont have to give me the same gear, give me tokens so it takes a while but i could possiblily after a few successful runs pick a single peice.