Request: Update Summoner Bloodpacts To be more useful at this new cap

[Karbuncle]

Hello Square Enix, Summoners, Non Summoners a like! I'll get to the point.

This is a request to update Bloodpacts to not suck. No, Not the Offensive ones (They need help, But lets talk about that later). This is about our Defensive Bloodpacts. They do not scale by level for crap, And this needs to be fixed.

Lets make some examples.

Shinning Ruby:
Increases Defense by 10% and Magic Damage Taken -4%. From the level you get it, to 99. I propose

Level 24~50 - DEF+10% MDT-4%
Level 51~60 - DEF+11% MDT-6%
Level 61~75 - DEF+12% MDT-7%
level 76~90 - DEF+13% MDT-9%
Level 91~99 - DEF+15% MDT-10%

Since the uniqueness of this is that it stacks with pro-Shell, We dont want it to be too powerful, but we also want it to be more useful/scale as the level increases.

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Noctoshield: Grants a Phalanx Effect. - Its -13 Damage from the level we get it, to 99... Pathetic. My recommendation

Smn Skill 100~150 - -13
Smn Skill 151~200 - -16
Smn Skill 201~250 - -19
Smn Skill 251~300 - -22
Smn Skill 301~350 - -26
Smn Skill 351~400 - -30
Smn Skill 401~500 - -35
Smn Skill 501~??? - -40 (Cap)

Any RDM can Accession Phalanx, For more Damage Resistance. This BP is no longer unique in that its AoE, since SCH of course. It needs a buff. Based on Summoning Skill is the best way to implement this.

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Earthern Ward

Currently the Formula is believed to be (Avatar Level)x2 + 50... So at 99 We're looking at HP Absorbed of about 248. This is ... good, But again, With Accession, this BP Has lost most if not all of its sheen. Instead of the currently formula, Perhaps something like...

Smn Skill 100~200 - 150HP Absorbed
Smn Skill 201~300 - 200HP Absorbed
Smn Skill 301~400 - 250HP Absorbed
Smn Skill 401~500 - 300HP Absorbed
Smn Skill 501+ - 350hp Absorbed

And again with Accession being possible, Theres no reason for this to be so weak in comparison. 248 Is pretty low when a Mage can get 350, Or more if the players have Stoneskin+ Gear, and can do it about as often.

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Ecliptic Growl - Currently, Increases Stats based on moon Phase, to a max of +7 To mage during new moon, and +6 melee during Full Moon. My proposed adjustment is simply

Level 43~65 - Min Stat +1, Max Stat increase +6
Level 66~75 - Min Stat +2, Max Stat increase +9
Level 76~90 - Min Stat +3, Max Stat increase +12
Level 91-99 - Min Stat +4, Max Stat increase +15

This Still puts it below "Gain" Stat bonuses, But it raises multiple Stats, So... It requires some balance i guess. Still needs a bit of a rework.

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Rolling Thunder - Not Super important, But this should scale up to about the potency of Inferno howl, and should be used in tandem with Inferno based on the Enemies Resistance.

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Glittering Ruby - This use to be pretty unique, But now, Not so much. Thanks to Gain Spells, WHMs can provide stronger buffs, and its not random, And they don't degrade. I recommend a Reworking of this Ability to Be something like...

Level 44~60 - +12 Stat, Degrades at -1 Every 15 Seconds
Level 61~75 - +15 Stat, Degrades at -1 Every 20 Seconds
Level 76-85 - +20 Stat, Degrades at -1 Every 25 Seconds
Level 86-98 - +25 Stat, Degrades at -1 Every 30 Seconds
Level 99-99 - +30 Stat, Degrades at -1 every 35 seconds

This makes it cap at just 5 Higher than WHM's with high Skill, However, I believe since its Random and Degrades, Unlike WHM/RDM which can be Chosen and Stays static, It should be more powerful by some degree.

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Lightning Armor/Frost Armor - Should just have their Potency boosted a Tad based on higher Skill, Up to maybe ~20 Damage or so reflected. not a big Deal.

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Dream Shroud - Currently Believed to give +10 Magic Attack Bonus around Midnight. this is actually quite nice as is. But should scale slightly higher based on level. (MDB being the opposite)

76~85 - +12 MAB At Midnight, +1 At Noon
86~95 - +13 MAB At Midnight, +2 At Noon
96~98 - +14 MAB At Midnight, +3 at Noon
99~99 - +15 MAB At Midngiht, +4 at Noon

....

Basically, a Lot of our Buffs have lost their uniqueness, Which is What i assumed kept them gimp, It would be nice if they could receive a nice buff to compensate for this loss of uniqueness due to /SCH, and general new spells (Gain-line).

The Above are just -Drawn on napkin- type suggestions, Nothing really thought out. Just examples.

Thank you.

[Badieh]

Wonderful! I totally agree with Blood-pacts scaling with the summoner level or skill level. I suggested this a year ago but it was out loud in my head. :p

[Badieh]

Okay, this is what other implementation that would be interesting to see in addition to the ones mentioned above.

Have 4 Blood Pact Categories instead of just 2. Each with the initial 1 minute timer.

BloodPact: Rage
Physical Bloodpacts such as: Axe Kick, Double Punch, Predator Claws, etc.

BloodPact: Magic (<-- Insert creative name here)
Magical Bloodpacts such as: Thunder 2, Fire 4, Geocrush, 2h Abilities, etc.

BloodPact: Ward
Buff Bloodpacts that affect the avatar or the party, such as: Aerial Armor, Earthen Ward, Glittering Ruby, etc.

BloodPact: Enfeeble (<-- Insert creative name here)
Enfeeble Bloodpacts that target the monster or enemy, such as: Sleepga, Nightmare, Slowga, etc.

I feel that 4 is enough, but something inside of me suggest putting the healing bloodpacts in their own, 5th category.

Under the effect of Astral Flow.
Allow the 2h abilities to use 20% of the maximum mp, instead of depleting all of the mp, similar to that of the Sch 2h magics.

Avatar Favor
Change it to that you are not allowed to summon the avatar that gives the favor while the favor is still in effect.

Example:
If you want Diabolos' Favor,
Summon Diabolos
Use Avatar Favor to bestow refresh effect on the surrounding party members.
Diabolos uses the Favor and dismisses himself.
You are not allowed to use Diabolos while the Avatar Favor is in effect.

This allows you to summon other avatars while the favor is in effect.
If you wish to summon Diabolos again, merely zone or click off the Avatar Favor icon.

[Karbuncle]

Thank yah.

I like your Idea of Avatar's Favor... But, Its a hard choice. If it worked like that, I'm sure SE would need to cut the duration for balance. Which i wouldn't really mind, so long as potency stayed the same.

The Separation of BP:Rage/BP:Ward into Sub categories would be nice, It would help SMN a good deal, But i think just removing the BP-Delay cap would solve a lot of problems.

[Sargent]

Good suggestions, Karb. It would be good to see Summoning skill become more useful, and a lot of these buffs do need an overhaul for Lv.99.

[SpankWustler]

Some guy on the development team, "Whoa, stuff is supposed to not suck?!"

[Saiken253]

Nice ideas OP.

for the BPs I keep saying(as do many of us I think) we need individual timers for all of them. We really only have at most 3 offensive BPs that are worth using and mostly only 1-2 wards worth using for each avatar :<

[Malamasala]

Seen all these 2004.

That doesn't mean it is bad ideas of course, it just means SE are terrible at getting anything done.

[Windwhisper]

I like both suggestions. They are very realistic and i truly hope the developers will at least look at them and consider some of the ideas.

[Babekeke]

Speaking of the summoning magic skill, how do you all skill your summoning magic? I was capped (and ~35+ with gear) at 75, but since abyssea my skill just wouldn't keep up. Only using SMN for campaign battle and WoE now doesn't help me any either.
As far as I'm aware, none of the foods affect the rate of summoning magic skill ups. Any tips?

[Lilia]

skill by the dolls in abyss altep~ solo or in alli :)

[Saiken253]

and use diabolos ^^

[Arcon]

Speaking of the summoning magic skill, how do you all skill your summoning magic?

It skilled well enough for me just spamming BPs on stuff (whatever I got to use it for, most notably Abyssea). However, most of it I got semi afk just summoning stuff over and over. Just press one button every thirty seconds for roughly 20 hours should do the trick. Works while reading something online or watching TV or anything else to keep you occupied.

[Karbuncle]

Found Skilling up to be a pain, Pretty sure the Skill-Up food helps with actual summoning, but not BP's.

Could be wrong.

[Windwhisper]

skilling up wasnt that hard for me. i capped smn magic by spamming agressive rage and ward pacts on voidwatch NM. like tidal roar/diamond storm etc.

with gear and merits its at 505 currently since im not using the staff from abyssea but rather the magian ones.

[Karbuncle]

It gets easier when you're in VW For proc-whoring, The only use the job has... Diabolos as said above makes it a lot easier. Sorry for the Month or so old Bump!

[Karbuncle]

The job forums are so dead lately. All of them. People get bored making suggestions that are never implemented D:?

[Luvbunny]

Probably - you know how it is, SE never really give a damn about Summoner, gave us useless crap and useless gears, and pretty much ignoring the whole thread in this forum. Empty promises, and pretty much no hope to get any case heard, but you never know, maybe now that the witch is retired, maybe we get a new person who actually like EVERY OTHER jobs and reviled and hate SAMURAI for once.

[Zerich]

The job forums are so dead lately. All of them. People get bored making suggestions that are never implemented D:?

SE's already shown how content they are with their ignorance to job-functions.
Kinda saddening.

[Teraniku]

Speaking of the summoning magic skill, how do you all skill your summoning magic? I was capped (and ~35+ with gear) at 75, but since abyssea my skill just wouldn't keep up. Only using SMN for campaign battle and WoE now doesn't help me any either.
As far as I'm aware, none of the foods affect the rate of summoning magic skill ups. Any tips?

You don't get skill ups in Campaign, the "no skill up" rule is still in effect for Campaign for some unfathomable reason. It would return Campaign to a more "Let's do campaign!!! We can skill up!" instead of "Why are doing Campaign again?"

[Karbuncle]

Yah, They really should unnerf Campaign Skill ups...

[Luvbunny]

Start a thread about campaign skills up, I mean this is like BEYOND RETARDED, you get skills up on every single aspect of the game and this is the only events where you cannot get it. For a content that is pretty much abandoned by players, this would be a nice gesture to bring back more interests. WoTG overall is a lackluster, disappointing contents that took over 4 years to finish with nary anything worthwhile to spend time exploring. Let's hope this is not going to be the trend forward, I am very worried about the next expansion, if we can get the Abyssea edition then it's beyond amazing, if we are getting a leftover from the he who must not be named as swan song, then it's going to be beyond terrible....

[Babekeke]

You don't get skill ups in Campaign, the "no skill up" rule is still in effect for Campaign for some unfathomable reason. It would return Campaign to a more "Let's do campaign!!! We can skill up!" instead of "Why are doing Campaign again?"

I'm aware of the 'no skillup rule' in campaign... that's why my skill is so low lol. And when I posted that, there were still no skill-ups in WoE either.


Start a thread about campaign skills up, I mean this is like BEYOND RETARDED, you get skills up on every single aspect of the game and this is the only events where you cannot get it. For a content that is pretty much abandoned by players, this would be a nice gesture to bring back more interests. WoTG overall is a lackluster, disappointing contents that took over 4 years to finish with nary anything worthwhile to spend time exploring. Let's hope this is not going to be the trend forward, I am very worried about the next expansion, if we can get the Abyssea edition then it's beyond amazing, if we are getting a leftover from the he who must not be named as swan song, then it's going to be beyond terrible....

Every capped Campaign Battle is worth ~50k gil from the allied notes that you get. That's on top of any random items that you earn. It's not brilliant, but it's a good reason for people who can't make gil in other ways to continue doing campaign. Unfortunately, most people who know about allied notes > voidstones have better ways to make gil.

[Karbuncle]

Also, Allied Notes > Voidstone is slow and boring, especially as is now where i can't even make use of the merits I get....

Still, Gil is a dirty afterthought to the event, It would still be wonderful if they'd remove the "no Skill up" nerf in campaign, it greatly discourages event participation for a lot of players, since its attraction generally is just for Gil, which as you mentioned, people have easier ways to farm... Or for Exp, which is more easily done everywhere else, where you can still get skill ups.

[Babekeke]

I agree.

P.S. you see that you can merit a 2nd stat 12/12 now? I think you can cap it with 30 merits, but it's something to spend that first lot on lol. Once I rememebr to do it myself I need to level another job to 75 just so I can merit it lol >.>

[Karbuncle]

I've leveled so many jobs to 75+ =.=a. I guess i need to get more.

But yah, 12/12 my DEX Merits is finally giving me a use for merits, I might actually go to Campaign to have some fun now.

[Alkar]

Add "New set of physical BPs" to the list. Everyone gets new Weapon Skills or spells and I'm stuck with Predator Claws again? No, thanks.
And no, Cait Sith isn't gonna change a damn thing. Add new Rage BPs to the elemental avatars and balance them properly this time so we can actually get something new that doesn't suck.

[Chimerawizard]

love the OP. definately needs done or something like it. Rage BP's definately need a boost too.

ALSO: anyone else here remember SMN being one of the biggest key jobs in dynamis WAY back when?
probably not. okay:
someone pulled the group of mobs, 45-60 mobs. BLMs did ES-sleepga.
couple SMN's astral flow'd and guess what? 3-5k DMG to each mob on each BP. (obv. not all mobs got hit each time)
back then it was kinda broken. Now, that's close to what I should be expecting my astral flow BP to do every 45 seconds.
I grabbed some elixir's to see how they do now against Ultima. knowing that Odin always did ~10% at lv75.
Fenrir: 150dmg /cry (musta resisted w/ 2x light weather)
Diabolos:800dmg WTF?! (% based attack that does <1% really SE? the mob was at 96% when i attempted)
Odin: 5000dmg (ppl went crazy before i could get my MP to full and brought ultima (v1) down quite a lot)
Note, when you use Odin or Alexander it does get rid of the 2hr so it can be seen as having done 4-5 BP's combined.

augmented 2hr dmg equation:
BASE=(smn skill)/10 X (Avatar's Level)
DMG=(BASE)X(day/weather bonus)X(resist?)X(MAB/MDB)X(Mythic weapon proc 2-3 hit proc?)

I have seen avatars petrified by lv5 petrify against Akvan w/ me SMN99. So, they can definately spawn lower level than the master.(if anyone didn't know)

[Xilk]

I have seen avatars petrified by lv5 petrify against Akvan w/ me SMN99. So, they can definately spawn lower level than the master.(if anyone didn't know)

Or they are spawning 1 level higher. or there is some other bug.

[Luvbunny]

Bump, SE needs to revise the Summoner's BP....

[Tennotsukai]

yes, yes they do. now more than ever...

[Infidi]

It's a sad day when, outside of abyssea, physical BP do more damage most of the time then merited magic BPs. Also, anyone remember when people/still know people that think stuff like MAB earrings and other stat+ equipment effects avatars/pets lol? They DO need more Avatar: and Pet: gear though. :(

[Kiakasha]

I agree Karb, summoner buffs should be on par with corsair and bard but at this point I feel the developers don't really care about summoner, this game is about properly geared WAR DRK SAM, white mage, bard and corsair for 6 person content... while the other jobs battle for relevance.

[Archades]

wrong thread to put in.

[Mokeil]

I've recently begun to wonder if these Item Levels are going to affect our Wards at all. I'm banking on "not likely". The problem is that we've got a handful of Wards (Earthen Ward and the HP restoring ones come to mind) where the potency of them is based on our character level.

Setting aside the fact that most of our pre-76 Wards need to be retooled for level 99... Standard cure spells can get better via more Healing Skill, buffs more potent via more Enhancing Magic... even our other Wards will get better durations (even if the effects are lousy) with more Summoning Magic... but if we're not actually leveling up, then these abilities aren't getting better.

Yet another way that Summoner is in need of a drastic overhaul.

[Aezelas]

I've recently begun to wonder if these Item Levels are going to affect our Wards at all. I'm banking on "not likely". The problem is that we've got a handful of Wards (Earthen Ward and the HP restoring ones come to mind) where the potency of them is based on our character level.

Setting aside the fact that most of our pre-76 Wards need to be retooled for level 99... Standard cure spells can get better via more Healing Skill, buffs more potent via more Enhancing Magic... even our other Wards will get better durations (even if the effects are lousy) with more Summoning Magic... but if we're not actually leveling up, then these abilities aren't getting better.

Yet another way that Summoner is in need of a drastic overhaul.

Since they seem to consider adding items as jobs adjustments, we'll most likely have to rely on those new grips and throwing items to make our bloodpacts better.

[Dekusuta]

It's a sad day when, outside of abyssea, physical BP do more damage most of the time then merited magic BPs. Also, anyone remember when people/still know people that think stuff like MAB earrings and other stat+ equipment effects avatars/pets lol? They DO need more Avatar: and Pet: gear though. :(

It really depends on mobs. Also while Physical BP may have a higher peak damage, the best physical BPs like Chaotic Strike/Predator Claws are all multi-hit BPs that get most of its OOMPh from the first hit. Flaming Crush has extra magical damage, but it also follows the same formula of 1 hit (usually the 1st) doing most of the damage.

So if that hit misses, and it will miss sometimes, then your BP is ineffective. Merited BP has been favoured outside abyssea, long before Abyssea was even added because it can deal stable, often unresistable damage.

Also with Delve gear, Nyzul hands, and Limbus pieces, it's a lot easier to get MAB on pets.

That said, I fully agree we need a new tier of Bloodpacts. The buffing line of spells in particular is woefully lacking, and Avatar's favour is now even more than a joke when Geomancers can do everything a SMN can, and the 'aura' applies to the Geos too and there's no long 'build up' or do the buffs weaken when the Geomancers are casting or doing other things.

I think what SMNs need are
1) New line of BPs for lvl 99 use
2) Scale up some of the buffs from existing avatars for level 99
3) Redo avatar's favour such that it works more like Geomancer auras and for god's sake remove the attk penalty (I'm fine if they decide to remove the perpetuation bonus. I much rather have auras that work than perpetuation reduction I don't really need with all the -perp gear around)
4) Add Avatar's Rage to beef up Avatar's HP/ATTK/MAB and adds offensive based auras.
5) Find a workaround to the :45 bp cap; it's ungodly slow for SMNs to have to wait that long for another BP, especially when a BP timer is wasted cause the pet is slept/stunned or what have you while the BP is going off. It totally takes SMN out of the DPS game outside of Wildskeeper and a few narrow events like WoE or Ultima fights.