Question regarding salvage bans

[above]

If a player was banned during the salvage bannings and they then went on to create a new account, would this account be libel to be banned ?

I have a reason for asking and i will share that later.

[Runespider]

Doesn't it say when you are banned that you are not welcome to any online services the company creates or something?

If you were banned from this forum and made annother account to get around it do you not think they would ban you again, same deal.

I doubt they would go out of their way to hunt you down but in that situation you would probably be best keeping a low profile I'd guess. Oh and don't hold your breath, you won't get an official answer to this >.>

[Spiritreaver]

If a player was banned during the salvage bannings and they then went on to create a new account, would this account be libel to be banned ?

I have a reason for asking and i will share that later.

If the newly made account has no ties(monetary, address, ect) to the banned one, i doubt it will get banned. Just keep your nose clean and you should be fine.

Shoot, i've read in the time since that round of bans, plenty of those guys came back with "new" accounts. And as long as they kept their playing within bounds, they met with no issues. Don't see why you would be any different.

[Zikon]

I wish now that salvage is completely worthless that some of these characters could be brought back to life. 2 year punishment is enough. I have several friends that would die to have their character back. :/

[Runespider]

I wish now that salvage is completely worthless that some of these characters could be brought back to life. 2 year punishment is enough. I have several friends that would die to have their character back. :/

Why? they can remake these days and have better gear and all the clears/etc they had then in a matter of months.

[Zikon]

Why? they can remake these days and have better gear and all the clears/etc they had then in a matter of months.

Most of them have remade and are 99 with better gear but you will always have and remember your first character.
It's like your mmo baby.

You can remake all you want but everyone remembers and loves their first account. (unless the salvaged banned accounts were played from people who already lost their character before to being banned and that was their remake)

Salvage bans to some people were unfair I think. Sure they misused a bug in the game to their benefit in my mind and in alot of minds wasn't that bad. A: it was SE's own fault that it occurred and it wasn't like they were using third party tools. We could debate over this time and time again but in the end lets face it salvage bans was a dark time for SE. They should have handled it differently.

If this forum was around back then I can almost guarantee someone would have spilled the beans. Back then it wasn't this easy to get in contact with SE reps and GM's so that's another reason why it should have been handled differently...

[Alerith]

They got what they deserved.

"I cheated but it wasn't as bad as the way that other guy cheated!"

Yea, right.

[Zikon]

oh please that's not cheating....

you wanna see cheating go to any and every abyssea zone and look for ninja's in a party with only 1 whm... Duo boxing is cheating but everyone's fine with windower ability's... but the second someone finds and expliot in the game and uses the exploit to get around a horrible drop system SE created and SE doesnt monitor the zones its suddenly cheating....

I mean come on....

seriously...

[Prothscar]

Are you comparing duplicating drops en masse by exploiting broken game mechanics to dual boxing? Really?

[Zikon]

Are you comparing duplicating drops en masse by exploiting broken game mechanics to dual boxing? Really?

Yeah I am........

Lets break it down

Salvage bans were created because it was an unfair advantage over regular players...

Windower abilitys give you an unfair advantage over regular players....

I'm not hating on either i'm just giving you an example of why salvage bans were unfair. They could have handed out suspensions to good well mannered adventurers that steered down the wrong path and taken the gear away. The players that had several strikes against their account already could have been banned (normal process for people with too many strikes) The entire thing was handled wrong..

My point is SE should revisit salvage bans and let some people back into the game after 2 years.

My other point is SE should revisit salvage bans and lift the curse off them (If the people who were banned by salvage are playing they shouldn't be punished again if they are good well mannered players)

[Prothscar]

You're implying that you require Windower to Dual Box. Salvage bans were the result of morons exploiting a broken game mechanic to duplicate drops, Dual Boxing is controlling two characters at once, which is not against the ToS.

[Karbuncle]

Yeah I am........

Lets break it down

Salvage bans were created because it was an unfair advantage over regular players...

Windower abilitys give you an unfair advantage over regular players....

I'm not hating on either i'm just giving you an example of why salvage bans were unfair. They could have handed out suspensions to good well mannered adventurers that steered down the wrong path and taken the gear away. The players that had several strikes against their account already could have been banned (normal process for people with too many strikes) The entire thing was handled wrong..

My point is SE should revisit salvage bans and let some people back into the game after 2 years.

My other point is SE should revisit salvage bans and lift the curse off them (If the people who were banned by salvage are playing they shouldn't be punished again if they are good well mannered players)

No. The Salvage ban weren't "Created because it was an unfair advantage over regular players", you can attempt to skew and distort the actual reason to the most basic generic vague description possible, which you have, it won't change the fact that there's a distinct difference between exploiting an obvious glitch to duplicate drops, and using a second character to help you, Of which you can actually easily do without Windower... Its call an Xbox, a Laptop, a Ps2/PS3... so forth.

Do I think they should have just mass banned/Suspended nearly everyone without any warning? No, not at all!

But everyone caught knew what they were doing, Not expecting any sort of repercussions is nothing short of delusional.

This is an old played out debate, Only people defending it are those who were caught in the ban or know someone who was. It was an obvious an exploit as i've ever seen, and people ignoring it are as delusional as the proverbial "Ignoring the Elephant in the room" types.

Edit: Maybe they should revisit it, But I'm willing to bet those who were banned by it have moved on or created new characters... Or perhaps, You were one of those banned?

[Zikon]

You're implying that you require Windower to Dual Box. Salvage bans were the result of morons exploiting a broken game mechanic to duplicate drops, Dual Boxing is controlling two characters at once, which is not against the ToS.

Don't act like you even for a second don't know what I'm talking about.

[Runespider]

A lot of the people that were baned over this were banned for duplicating Sandworm drops, which was a far bigger exploit. Those drops were worth millions each and they farmed them daily, they knew they were doing wrong and that Square would fix it but they abused the hell out of it thinking Square would just let it slide. They didn't.

Also no way in hell they will reverse old bans, it's hard enough to reverse mistaken banning let alone this.

[Zikon]

No. The Salvage ban weren't "Created because it was an unfair advantage over regular players", you can attempt to skew and distort the actual reason to the most basic generic vague description possible, which you have, it won't change the fact that there's a distinct difference between exploiting an obvious glitch to duplicate drops, and using a second character to help you, Of which you can actually easily do without Windower... Its call an Xbox, a Laptop, a Ps2/PS3... so forth.

Do I think they should have just mass banned/Suspended nearly everyone without any warning? No, not at all!

But everyone caught knew what they were doing, Not expecting any sort of repercussions is nothing short of delusional.

This is an old played out debate, Only people defending it are those who were caught in the ban or know someone who was. It was an obvious an exploit as i've ever seen, and people ignoring it are as delusional as the proverbial "Ignoring the Elephant in the room" types.

Exactly my point.... It can be debated over and over again.... The point is that was 2 years ago.

Ok then let me revise this USING any windower ability not just duo boxing gives you an unfair advantage over other players. so thats cheating plain and simple.

[Prothscar]

Don't act like you even for a second don't know what I'm talking about.

Unless you have unquestionable proof to the contrary, not every Dual Boxer is using Windower. Your argument is flawed and invalid.

[Runespider]

Don't act like you even for a second don't know what I'm talking about.

Just because some people have 2 instances of FFXI running on 1 pc and use windower programs to control the other from the first doesn't mean everyone does, many people just have an Xbox next to the desktop and use a controller.

As for windower being akin to the salvage thing, in an MMO one of the worst things you can do, that will tick off the developers is duping. If you dupe you are gonna get in serious trouble, they take that kind of thing far far more serious than most anything else you can mention (aside from hacking the servers or something).

[Zikon]

Unless you have unquestionable proof to the contrary, not every Dual Boxer is using Windower. Your argument is flawed and invalid.

Please.... Try again

[Nynja]

the amount of stupid in this thread by one poster can not be measured in levels of stupid. We need a higher unit of measurement. Kilostupids? Megastupids, sounds good there, but terrastupids makes more sense.

[Prothscar]

Please.... Try again

I don't have to, I've already won. Stop being an idiot.

[Zikon]

Just because some people have 2 instances of FFXI running on 1 pc and use windower programs to control the other from the first doesn't mean everyone does, many people just have an Xbox next to the desktop and use a controller.

As for windower being akin to the salvage thing, in an MMO one of the worst things you can do, that will tick off the developers is duping. If you dupe you are gonna get in serious trouble, they take that kind of thing far far more serious than most anything else you can mention (aside from hacking the servers or something).

Again debate after debate no one will win... I've said my point... if any of you disagree or any of you agree it no longer matters. I have my opinion and if even 1 SE rep reads this out of the several that talk for the English forums and says hey, "You know what maybe hes right how can we better handle stuff like this in the future if anything like this occurs again" then I'm satisfied.

If they let some people back in then Awesome some people should have their old account back. If they don't oh well couldn't hurt but voice my opinion.

If they read this and go hmm. these people who lost their accounts shouldn't ever be punished again even if they openly admit they were banned for salvage duping then awesome again.

And again about the windower thing some of you guys have horribly gross ideas of whats wrong and right its pretty stupid. I know some people play xbox/ps2/ps3 but come on most if not all of you are playing on a PC right now using windower... Your on a forum on a computer... Please

[Zikon]

I don't have to, I've already won. Stop being an idiot.

Your taking offense and calling someone an idiot over the internet claiming you won..... clearly your right I must be retarded.

[Tamoa]

This thread is guaranteed to be locked/deleted, I'm sure of it. What I'm not sure of though, is why the OP would ask a question like this on this forum of all places. Do you expect a reply from a SE rep? Because I really don't think you'll get one.

[Zikon]

So your only evidence is a slew of self-created hypothetical evidence that you have no grounds to base in reality. Sounds legit.

Considering that you meet the exact definition of the word "idiot", I'd say that it's appropriate terminology.

Please.... Lol don't insult my intelligence and experience in this game by using hyperbole. Is what you should have said.

What you actually said came out dull and dry.

[Eurell]

Again debate after debate no one will win... I've said my point... if any of you disagree or any of you agree it no longer matters. I have my opinion and if even 1 SE rep reads this out of the several that talk for the English forums and says hey, "You know what maybe hes right how can we better handle stuff like this in the future if anything like this occurs again" then I'm satisfied.

If they let some people back in then Awesome some people should have their old account back. If they don't oh well couldn't hurt but voice my opinion.

If they read this and go hmm. these people who lost their accounts shouldn't ever be punished again even if they openly admit they were banned for salvage duping then awesome again.

And again about the windower thing some of you guys have horribly gross ideas of whats wrong and right its pretty stupid. I know some people play xbox/ps2/ps3 but come on most if not all of you are playing on a PC right now using windower... Your on a forum on a computer... Please

How should they have better handled it? People cheated. They knew they were cheating (they were idiots if they didn't). They got banned. That's exactly how it is supposed to happen. AND it had the bonus of being hilarious.

Why should any of them have their accounts back? They broke the rules and have to deal with the consequences.

I don't even understand what you mean with they should never be punished again. Do you mean for the same thing they already got banned for? Or for any future offense?

I also don't understand what you mean by this last paragraph. Do you propose they ban everyone that dualboxes because some people do it by using windower?

This whole post is full of wut

[Prothscar]

Please.... Lol don't insult my intelligence and experience in this game by using hyperbole. Is what you should have said.

What you actually said came out dull and dry.

Dull and dry yet still conveyed the correct theme. You could just be saying that it was dull and dry because you don't really know half of the words in that sentence, but I'll assume that's not the case.

[Aldersyde]

Don't act like you even for a second don't know what I'm talking about.

Frankly, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I dual box using my laptop and my old ps2. What part of that is cheating?

SE has its own windower. I know because I use it. Being able to play and post on the forums isn't inherently cheating.

Holy Christ

[wish12oz]

clearly your right I must be retarded.

you're*


Frankly, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I dual box using my laptop and my old ps2. What part of that is cheating?

SE has it's own windower. I know because I use it. Being able to play and post on the forums isn't inherently cheating.

Holy Christ

There's many, many ways to play more than 1 account at a time that doesn't involve cheating. You can use seperate systems, and even partition your hard drive, and run a separate FFXI off each one on the same PC without using windower. Anyone who thinks the only thing someone could be doing was using windower is obviously just dumb.

[Babygyrl]

Don't act like you even for a second don't know what I'm talking about.

I guess me and my husband playing ffxi in the same room next to each other is cheating too!

[Scribble]

I guess me and my husband playing ffxi in the same room next to each other is cheating too!

Extramarital dual-boxing... giggety

[Spiritreaver]

Wow, came back to see if the OP ever gave a reason for this thread and find some dude carrying a torch for his long-lost banned homies.....

[Rohelius]

Cheaters should stay banned and they should track their payment methods more aggressively so that they don't come back ever again to FFXI. ( or get tossed to FF14)

Fact is those type of people will always be looking for a way to cheat the system and there is no lesson learned from a temporary ban even if its 5 years they will do it again if the Gil is high enough because being in a elite LS or being a Elite geared player is more important then anything or anyone and is their #1 goal in the game.

[Kiba]

I think really the main consensus came to the following facts:
1) The players who committed act in the salvage exploiting the bug were wrong - no matter what factors, circumstances,
even accounting in SE's responsibility for not fixing the bug for more than a year. There is no point in arguing as the players broke the terms of service. No one forced them to do so. So wrong is wrong.
2) A lot agree however that SE could of handled the salvage issue a lot better considering the inconsistency in who they decided to suspend, ban, and warn. Yes, I do recall at the time there was a very well-known player among the community who confessed he had actively engaged in the salvage item duplications yet was only issued a warning. This questions up to date the fairness of the bannings.

So my inquiry about the salvage bans for our wonderful community representatives Camate, Rukkirii, Bayohne, Mochi to address to the appropriate department would be as follows:
The salvage bans that took place in January 2009 was an event memorable to date for being the first instance of Square Enix taking serious action on legitimate players breaking the terms of service involving abuse of exploits. Many players agree to date that the decision to punish was proper as it was an expected consequence for breaking the terms of service. In other words if you don't follow the rules, you don't get to play. Simple as is. However many also feel the punishments for the salvage exploits could of been handled a lot better in terms of fairness in issuing temp bans, permanent bans, and warnings. At the same time the event made it more visible that Playonline Center representatives are not very helpful nor professional towards answering calls, which make Square Enix as a company look very bad in terms of customer service. Two years have passed. While the salvage bans are nothing more than history now it would be very nice to hear from SE with an official response to concerns many players have about the incident. Like a fellow poster had mentioned the banned have been punished for 2 years, etc. Life is short. Are they really be willing to be punished another 2 years? Chances are even by that time interest in the game would not be the same. The fortunate case at this time is that most likely they are still interested in the game which means possibly more re-subscribers more revenue for the company. Many other MMO's have more lenient policies in place for breaking terms of service by utilizing penalties as ways to punish but maintain good customer service and subscribers. Only if the offending player commits act detrimental to the whole player base that a permanent ban to be enforced. Can Square-Enix review this as a possibility to implement in the future? And can something be done about the notorious negative customer service at the service center(call/chat)? The way of business practiced in Japan has a lot of honor and is respectful, however on an international global scale customer service is very important. Just like how SE responded by handling misconduct, it would be appreciating to have a response like this as an example to alleviate current concerns regarding stuff like job adjustments, relic/mythic/emp 99 implementations : that SE really is listening and is thoughtful on what the player base really thinks. Perhaps implementing a customer support area with support tickets in forums like most developer companies would be very great here. Thank you for forwarding my inquiry. /bow

To all fellow players. I have friends who were banned but also I have friends who strongly engage in arguments over who was right and wrong during the incident. Which is why I try to speak from both perspectives. I hope my inquiry does get to the proper channel at SE so we can have a response that they really care about players and how they as a company intend to improve on their customer service. To the players who were banned, if out of the slightest luck you are given return please consider carefully what you have done wrong and not do it again as it really is not worth it to lose so much work over greed and lose integrity. Thanks for reading.

[SNK]

In a nutshell they cheated and got banned.

For those of you needing some laughs...

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/68860-Delicious-quotes-from-the-original-dupe-fix-thread?highlight=

[Alhanelem]

If a player was banned during the salvage bannings and they then went on to create a new account, would this account be libel to be banned ?

I have a reason for asking and i will share that later.
Why would getting banned on one account automatically predispose you to being banned on another?

And why are you specifically naming Salvage bans? Wouldnt the answer be applicable to any and all bans?

Why the hell is this topic coming up again anyway? Make another account if you want to play that badly, and suck up the fact you got banned and you deserved it.


1) The players who committed act in the salvage exploiting the bug were wrong - no matter what factors, circumstances,
even accounting in SE's responsibility for not fixing the bug for more than a year. There is no point in arguing as the players broke the terms of service. No one forced them to do so. So wrong is wrong.
2) A lot agree however that SE could of handled the salvage issue a lot better considering the inconsistency in who they decided to suspend, ban, and warn. Yes, I do recall at the time there was a very well-known player among the community who confessed he had actively engaged in the salvage item duplications yet was only issued a warning. This questions up to date the fairness of the bannings.This is pretty much accurate. I don't think anyone disagrees that it could have been handled better, but the fact is, the people who were banned did violate the ToS/user agreement/license agreement/whatever.

[Kitkat]

If a player was banned during the salvage bannings and they then went on to create a new account, would this account be libel to be banned ?

I have a reason for asking and i will share that later.

To answer your question, directly from the Terms of Service User agreement you "agree" to every time you log in:

In addition, SQUARE ENIX shall be entitled to terminate any FINAL FANTASY XI Service Account (immediately and without notice) of any User who (1) was previously suspended or terminated by SQUARE ENIX and who SQUARE ENIX believes (in its sole discretion) re-registered using different registration information in order to circumvent or bypass such suspension or termination, or (2) SQUARE ENIX believes (in its sole discretion, based upon any information available, including registration and account information) that such User is enabling or assisting another User to conduct any Prohibited Activities of any kind.

@Zikon
Exploitation of a flawed game mechanic (AKA a bug that unexpectedly duplicates items by breaking alliance as items drop into pool) is considered a cheat. Heck, SE banned for less (mule accounts growing grass then selling to npc were banned during RMT circumvention tactics, whether they were actually RMT or not). It also states in the ToS that they can and will ban you outright if they find through investigation methods that you created an unfair advantage through exploits, hacks, bugs, or other forms of cheating.


2.1 Cheating and Botting. You may not create or use any cheats, bots, automation software, hacks, mods or any other unauthorized software designed to modify the Game and gameplay. In addition, you may not take advantage of game system bugs and exploits during gameplay.

No matter how much you sugar coat it to make it seem "alright" the fact remains that it obviously wasn't "alright" or they wouldn't have been banned in the first place. The fact you are trying to misconstrue the meaning of "Unfair advantage" is interesting also. Because a person has 2 accounts and possible 2 sources of which to log into FFXI, they are creating an unfair advantage by playing 2 characters at once? This is not true, if anything a person playing one character has a better advantage than you do because they have undivided attention to one character. Someone playing 2 has divided attention between the two. The only real advantage they have over anyone else is controlling the speed in which they get status cures, cures, or buffs, and controlling hate in a mininal conflicting environment. These are all standard game mechanics we all abide by every time we play, the only difference with 2 characters is you directly control what the 2 characters do as opposed to 1.

So because someone can Alt+tab to another window, or sit next to another machine (or even hold it in their lap) and play two characters they are automatically cheating? I'm not sure how that will work out for you seeing as you are lumping everyone into a 3rd party software using group when that is not always the case. This makes arguments using this as evidence inaccurate. However...once again bringing up the TOS in light of 3rd party usage:



2.4 Private Servers. You may not create, operate, participate in or use any unauthorized servers intended to emulate the Game.

2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

2.6 Hacking and Circumvention. You may not hack, disassemble, decompile, or otherwise modify the Game or server computer code, whether the Game code is located on a DVD, Blu-rayTM disc, your computer/console or on SQUARE ENIX’s servers, except as expressly permitted by SQUARE ENIX or applicable law.

2.7 Modifying or Creating Derivative Software. You may not modify or cause to be modified any files that are a part of the Game or Service in any way not expressly authorized by SQUARE ENIX, and may not make any derivative works of the Game.


By definition, use of any 3rd party software is grounds for suspension or termination of an account, yes. In this instance you are correct, but not for the reason you think. It isn't so much that it gives an unfair advantage (at its base widower was only just what the name implies...a way to play in windowed mode allowing PC users to alt+tab nothing more), but because it is not SE authorized software being used in conjunction with their software. Something they don't have direct control over nor can monitor directly. Now, this section also includes anyone who has ever created dat mods, done dat mining for information, or even simply swapped dats to make finding something easier (golden salvage chest anyone?) an offender. Meaning just about any PC user is guilty in one form or another and should be banned by this standard alone (whew, then developers wouldn't have to kill this game slowly).

Further more, to refute any "Those didn't exist at the time and shouldn't have been used...." etc banter, you should read the agreement carefully before clicking agree each time you play. Very good reasons as to why:


The terms of this User Agreement supersede any conflicting terms in any edition of the FINAL FANTASY XI User Manual.


SQUARE ENIX may update the list of License Limitations at www.playonline.com/ff11us/support at any time. The current License Limitations are as follows:

Meaning, that as they revise, change, amend, or otherwise add further restrictions on this, you are agreeing to follow the ToS each time you click "Agree" before being able to log into your character on FFXI. Additionally, this agreement, in virtual form, supersedes any initial agreement you signed up with that may have been missing these restrictions, such as the 2003 agreement which was very bare compared to agreement we all acknowledge every time we log on now.

[Tagrineth]

There's many, many ways to play more than 1 account at a time that doesn't involve cheating. You can use seperate systems, and even partition your hard drive, and run a separate FFXI off each one on the same PC without using windower. Anyone who thinks the only thing someone could be doing was using windower is obviously just dumb.

You don't even need to partition. The client allows multiple instances to begin with.

[Tamoa]

Guys.... It's been THREE years since the salvage bans, not two. :P

Anyways - yes, Kiba's post hits the nail on the head more or less. It could definitely have been handled a lot better by SE. But the people that took part in salvage/Sandworm duping, had to know the risk - ignorance is no excuse really, it was pretty obvious what they were doing was wrong in SE's eyes.

However, I doubt that we will see a post by a SE rep in this thread - other than explaining why it's been locked, if things get out of hand. And I also doubt we will see a post by a player saying "I got banned for salvage duping but obtained a new char using the same info as with the banned one". So yeah, again not sure what exactly the OP wants to achieve making this thread.

[Vagrua]

Also no way in hell they will reverse old bans, it's hard enough to reverse mistaken banning let alone this.
Well, if they had more than a years worth of logs (as they stated (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnews/news15265.shtml)) to perform the bans, I'm sure they might still have those logs laying around somewhere to unban. ;)

550 player bans doesn't sound like too much of a blow to a game with over 500k subscribers at the time?


(November 22, 2008) Now in its sixth year of service, FINAL FANTASY XI has a robust community of 500,000 subscribers and more than 1.7 million player characters from around the world. The series continues to evolve and expand, offering newcomers and fans alike an immersive, engrossing and engaging universe to traverse, defend and explore. source (http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16794)

[saevel]

The reason they got banned wasn't that they were abusing a game mechanic, it was because they were deliberately trying to hide it from SE. That is why some got banned but others didn't, SE went looking for evidence that they tried to hide it or told others not to report it. They searched through the games logs which are stored on the server, this doesn't include things said on private vent servers, messengers or through forums. So just because someone was spouting off on an outside channel doesn't mean they were spouting off inside the game.

Lesson learned: don't try to hide things from SE.

[hiko]

oh please that's not cheating....

you wanna see cheating go to any and every abyssea zone and look for ninja's in a party with only 1 whm... Duo boxing is cheating but everyone's fine with windower ability's... but the second someone finds and expliot in the game and uses the exploit to get around a horrible drop system SE created and SE doesnt monitor the zones its suddenly cheating....

I mean come on....

seriously...

ITT: someone cant have 2PC and hit a macro once every 30sec on the second one to get a cure

[Genoxd]

More then 1/2 the people I know would quit FFXI if windower was shutdown.

[Babekeke]

If a player was banned during the salvage bannings and they then went on to create a new account, would this account be libel to be banned ?

I have a reason for asking and i will share that later.

Half the people who got banned, had Astral burned a SCH or PUP to 75 within a week on a new char. (I'm not sure why PUP since it still needs skilling, but that was a popular choice).

[Alerith]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/68860-Delicious-quotes-from-the-original-dupe-fix-thread?highlight=


I forgot how amazing that thread was.

[Karbuncle]

More then 1/2 the people I know would quit FFXI if windower was shutdown.

Windower, Not from personal experience, Can be quite nice. But becoming so reliant on its conveniences that one would quit if it was no longer there sounds like an Addict having withdraws.

I think you should have interventions with your friend ...

[detlef]

It's like wiping your ass with your hand your entire life and then discovering toilet paper.

[Karbuncle]

It's like wiping your ass with your hand your entire life and then discovering toilet paper.

Not really, No.

I'd say it's more like switching from 1$ Store Toilet Paper, to Charmin Brand. Its a nice upgrade, But it doesn't mean I'll stop sh*tting because Charmin doesn't exist anymore.

[detlef]

Well, if you say so.

[Nynja]

Not really, No.

I'd say it's more like switching from 1$ Store Toilet Paper, to Charmin Brand. Its a nice upgrade, But it doesn't mean I'll stop sh*tting because Charmin doesn't exist anymore.

No, but it means I'll start holding my poops for when I go to my friends houses

[Arcari]

In a nutshell they cheated and got banned.

For those of you needing some laughs...

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/68860-Delicious-quotes-from-the-original-dupe-fix-thread?highlight=

Wow, I totally forgot about this thread. Good times, thanks SNK!

[Habiki]

Don't act like you even for a second don't know what I'm talking about.

I dual box and i have two seperate accounts with two seperate laptops.

[macross]

unban them but delete all the gear and gil off the char.

[SNK]

Wow, I totally forgot about this thread. Good times, thanks SNK!

Niki was probably the most famous for falling harder then anyone who ever got banned. Hasn't shown his face anywhere on the internet since then or has long since made it a point to never let anyone know who he is now.

*Edit took some searching but I found this...


In November 2008, we discovered an issue that allowed players to create multiple items for certain treasures and rewards in areas such as Salvage and Assault by exploiting the game system.

The issue was fixed during emergency maintenance on November 26, 2008. However, we discovered that some players had already exploited the issue and used it to gain additional items before it was addressed. We then investigated more than a year's worth of logs throughout all areas.

As a result of the investigation, approximately 400 players were temporarily suspended based on the evidence gathered. Approximately 550 players who committed more serious misconduct had their accounts banned.

We are working hard to ensure that these kinds of issues do not occur again in FINAL FANTASY XI. However, if you discover any problems with the game system, please submit a GM call or fill out the feedback e-mail form to report the problems to us, instead of exploiting or spreading the issue.

We thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

The original LM-17 Thread...

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/68831-LM-17

The mass amount of QQing and predictions that FFXI was done after this is awesome.

[Runespider]

The mass amount of QQing and predictions that FFXI was done after this is awesome.

Added to that, 2 years later not only was salvage gear made obsolete but gil made easier to obtain also. So they took massive risks for stuff that would be shortly outdated anyway :D

Having said that ofc Square did lull people into a false sense of security over this, inaction for years over botting etc and then the holy hammer of banning on this. It was like..."they won't do anything..lets spam this before they fix it" to "I don't believe they banned me, I had 3 relics! the game will be dead without me!" lol

[Kristal]

unban them but delete all the gear and gil off the char.

Obliterate those accounts so the player names become free again.

[above]

Speaking of Nikki he hasn't quit infact he is still very vocal on various forums including this one he's just using a diffrent name.

[Runespider]

Speaking of Nikki he hasn't quit infact he is still very vocal on various forums including this one he's just using a diffrent name.

Just goes to show, when people say "they won't ban people cause it will cost them money" it actually makes them more money. They just buy new codes and resub, win win.

[SNK]

Speaking of Nikki he hasn't quit infact he is still very vocal on various forums including this one he's just using a diffrent name.

Who is it then cuz I'm wondering how he's been considering he was probably the most humliated by that mass banning.

[Urteil]

oh please that's not cheating....

you wanna see cheating go to any and every abyssea zone and look for ninja's in a party with only 1 whm... Duo boxing is cheating but everyone's fine with windower ability's... but the second someone finds and expliot in the game and uses the exploit to get around a horrible drop system SE created and SE doesnt monitor the zones its suddenly cheating....

I mean come on....

seriously...


Are you clinically retarded?