Test Server Feedback Event: Legion

[Camate]

Greetings everyone! :)

The North American Community Team will be holding their very first test server gathering, which will be used to focus test the new Legion content. Myself, Bayohne and Rukkirii will be making an appearance to join you in battle and help you get familiar with the content in a large group setting.

Please read over the below notes and the event overview before participating.
We are looking forward to seeing as many of you as possible! :)

Requests and things to note

Everyone is welcome to participate, even those that have not experience large scale battles.
As we would like to get feedback that is close to actual play as possible, please use the jobs and equipment that you would normally use.
※Please refrain from using equipment that you can obtain from the test server (i.e. don’t use relics if you really don’t have one)
Please participate on a level 99 job.
The Community Team will not be organizing or explaining battle strategies as we will leave this up to the players to decide.
※If there are experienced players present, allow them to lead and offer advice.
In the case we have more than 36 participants we will go into separate rooms


Event Overview

Date and Time
2/10/2012 (Friday) 6:30PM-9:00PM PST (9:30PM-12:00AM EST)
※The event will begin promptly at 7:00PM PST, so please gather and have your parties ready to go so we can move through the schedule on time.
Meeting Place
Undine (Test server)
Sauromugue Champaign (E-6)


Event Schedule

6:30PM:　Preparation (30 minutes)
　　　　　　Please make sure to prepare your equipment and establish your parties before we begin.
　　　　　　*The Community Team will be distributing linkshells to everyone.

7:00PM:　Flow Explanation & Questions (10 min.)/Strategy meeting (10 min.)
　　　　　　Staff explains about Legion progression and points to note

7:20PM:　Battle 1 (30 min.)
　　　　　　Tackle a Legion battle

7:50PM:　Feedback (10 min.)
　　　　　　Time for participants to post feedback, thoughts and questions on the official feedback thread

8:00PM:　Intermission (10 min.)

8:10PM:　Strategy meeting 2 (10 min.)
　　　　　　Reflection on first battle and reassessment of battle strategy/party setup

8:20PM:　Battle 2 (30 min.)
　　　　　　Legion battle round 2

8:50PM:　Feedback 2 (10 min.)
　　　　　　Time for participants to post feedback, thoughts and questions on the official feedback thread

9:00PM:　Disband
※The Community Team will leave at 9:00PM, but everyone is free to continue to test and discuss the content afterwards.

Points to note

We ask that you do not send tells to the members of the Community Team. When it comes to discussion, we ask that you focus on the event itself as the Community Team will not be answering any unrelated questions.
We may release videos and/or screenshots from the event, so please understand that character names may be shown in chat windows and party lists.
There may be cases the event is canceled due to unforeseeable circumstances.
If we determine that a player is impeding the flow of the event in any way or disturbing other players, that player will be warned and/or reprimanded. If it is determined that the actions are being performed that interrupt service, we will terminate the event.
Any players that do not follow staff directions and cause problems with the event will be penalized.


Feedback

Please leave feedback about the Legion system after participating.

Using the below template, please post feedback into this thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20579-Feedback-from-Test-Server-Feedback-Event-Legion).

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Job you participated with
(Main job/support job/level)

Thoughts on content

　-System:
　　

　-Battle:


Other feedback and opinions


------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Phafi]

Captain Camate ->
First Lieutenant Phaffi!

[Prothscar]

Looking forward to meeting Camate in the Behemothy flesh!

[Detoxy]

Im in for sure.

[Babekeke]

Will there be an EU friendly event?

[RocStar]

Yay be there or be square!

[Zubis]

Will there be an EU friendly event?

It would be nice, but I doubt if the number of EU players would support it. I'm EU and I'm still debating if I should get up early and participate in the NA event. I guess it depends on the turn out for this one...

[wish12oz]

Will there be an EU friendly event?

This is like, early saturday morning for EUs? like 8am? there shouldn't be a problem with you coming I don't think.

[Tile]

afew people did the JP one even though they are not JP, just it was all in japanese, there is no rule saying only NA can do this event. only thing is this event is aimed at the NA players so it will be in english.

[Eckhart]

Cant wait for it!!! :D

[Zubis]

This is like, early saturday morning for EUs? like 8am? there shouldn't be a problem with you coming I don't think.

1:30am to 4:00am XD

[Camate]

Getting things all set for the test server event. See you all on Friday :)

1267

[Zubis]

...Not a taru? I feel like I just found out the truth behind Santa Claus ._.

[Camate]

...Not a taru? I feel like I just found out the truth behind Santa Claus ._.

Well, while "Camate" may not be a taru, my personal character is in fact a taru. Don't stop believing!

[Raksha]

Getting things all set for the test server event. See you all on Friday :)

1267

Let's Fighting Love?

[Asymptotic]

♪♪HEY HEY LET'S GO 喧嘩する
大切の物 PROTECT MY BALLS!
僕が悪い SO LET'S FIGHTING...
LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!
LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!♪♪

[Economizer]

Don't stop believing!

Don't stop believing?

[Camate]

Don't stop believing?




Not gonna lie...I put on the song and read your lyrics.

[Tile]

Well, while "Camate" may not be a taru, my personal character is in fact a taru. Don't stop believing!

should have made Camate a taru for the test server then, dont tell me it was cause you wanted more hp :p

[Ophannus]

My kingdom to any player that kills Camate if/when he gets charmed.

[Karbuncle]

My kingdom to any player that kills Camate if/when he gets charmed.

i would SA>Mercy Stroke him... Out of Friendship.

Like i do my Brother.

Saddly, I cannot Participate. For unfortunate circumstances has bound my brother to the Test Server instead of me. I hope you guys have fun :)

[SpankWustler]

My kingdom to any player that kills Camate if/when he gets charmed.

Given the tone of many of our responses, or at least my responses, I wouldn't be surprised if Camate is hatching his own plot for revenge.

"Oh, hey, it turns out these things aggro to Flash being cast on them while another monster is still at 75%. Consider that one tested, guys!"

"AFK for 52 minutes before handing out linkshells. Company policy!"

"Nashmau Stew: my favorite!"

[Economizer]

"Nashmau Stew: my favorite!"

Or perhaps a mage angry that the best stats they can get for "Mage food" is 7~10 of the stat their casting spells happen to use. If I end up going I'm bringing a few stacks of antacids.

[Godofgods]

Well, while "Camate" may not be a taru, my personal character is in fact a taru. Don't stop believing!

Sry to dissapoint dev team, but im reading through all the dev trakers on the front page..
legion.. (next)
more legion.. (next)
phantom roll.. (next)
"Well, while "Camate" may not be a taru," !!!!! /em Clicks!

[Camate]

Just reminding everyone that tonight at 6:30PM (PST) we will be gathering on the test server to do some Legion. Hoping to see everyone there!

[Dragoy]

Early morning here... so I think I'm going to miss it.
Working as intended!

I hope everything goes well, and that you'll get some good testing done.
Just try to remember to have some fun while at it. ^^;

[Phafi]

http://img.bluegartr.com/wiki/c/c9/Savory_Shank_description.png
I still want some of these!

[Alhanelem]

The difficulty bar honestly feels set very high. Not impossible, but our testing has shown you need to be VERY organized to make this happen. I have a feeling only a limited selection of jobs are going to be percieved as valuable.

Once we really hunkered down and hammered out a strategy, things went fairly well but we were still unable to fully overcome the challenge. at least clearing the first wave seems to be the only thing required for progression.

It would be nice if we could create multiple legion pages in order to allow unique group configurations to be formed more easily. For the test event, after a horrible faliure the first run, we decided to split up into three groups of 12 to take each of the three monsters separately and at the same time (this proved to be a decent strategy, though not perfect). It was rather difficult to set this up, because we had to plan it out beforehand, form two alliances, then reconfigure into the 3-alliance group setup we wanted after entering the lobby area. It would have been better if we were able to configure our parties the way we wanted before entering. The good news is this strategy enabled us to successfully clear the first wave, albeit not with enough time left to have a chance at killing anything more.

As an aside: I don't like the look of this place visually. We go to the "hall of skies," we expect the arena to have a theme that matches the description. Instead, we get an area that looks like GM Prison. I also somewhat expected unique music, though I suppose that the current audio/visual experience may not be complete.

Finally: In an event with a strict time limit, the second wave of monsters takes a fairly significant time to appear. The wait time should be reduced or eliminated, as players should know going into this that when the first wave is defeated, new monsters will spawn- they can move the group to an appropriate location before finishing the last monster.

[Dazusu]

The difficulty bar honestly feels set very high. Not impossible, but our testing has shown you need to be VERY organized to make this happen. I have a feeling only a limited selection of jobs are going to be percieved as valuable.

Finally, the challenge and throwback to the old school that *some* of us have been waiting for!


Once we really hunkered down and hammered out a strategy, things went fairly well but we were still unable to fully overcome the challenge

It's great that there's content you can't one-shot the first or second time you try it. That's how it should be, taking time to learn and devise strategies that work. It sounds great, wish I could have been there to try it ;D

[Zubis]

It was a good run, nice atmosphere too. I also enjoyed that the reps were able to contribute and have some fun too I hope.
Hopefully more events like this can happen in the future.

Go exp though ;)

http://thesoulstillburns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/repexp.jpg

[Detoxy]

Here's a Vid of the fight I made. Pretty Much got wiped, but eh Legion still got its kinks to be worked out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee09wf_WExk&list=UUzpdtGwBDNCPs5HYGrGrWOA&index=1&feature=plcp

[Alhanelem]

Finally, the challenge and throwback to the old school that *some* of us have been waiting for!If only this could be done without excluding half the jobs in the game.

I don't mind a challenge. But the problem with making anything really hard in this game is only the currently popular bandwagon jobs can/will be used.


It's great that there's content you can't one-shot the first or second time you try it.Actually it wasn't my first or second time (personally).

However, the event should really have a difficulty progression (meaning that there should be an ideal sequence for the chambers and they should gradually get harder, rather than all be superhard right off the bat). Currently all of the chambers are of similar difficulty, and within each chamber you have a few waves: Hard, Very hard, and (Can't get this far).

I think you should step back, take a look at the game, and ask yourself if you really want another event where the only really wanted jobs are WAR MNK WHM BLM BRD.

Don't get me wrong though- The event is quite fun even considering its difficulty. However, I'm concerned about being allowed to go by any serious group on the live servers when my most built up jobs are not the most popular ones.

On the test event, it was basically "come as you are, form a team and wing it," and after a few alliance beat-ins we hammered out a workable strategy with what we had- but no linkshell or serious group is going to accept this- They are going to mold the perfect setup with the perfect jobs and nobody else will be allowed.

[zagam]

If only this could be done without excluding half the jobs in the game.

I don't mind a challenge. But the problem with making anything really hard in this game is only the currently popular bandwagon jobs can/will be used.

Actually it wasn't my first or second time (personally).

However, the event should really have a difficulty progression (meaning that there should be an ideal sequence for the chambers and they should gradually get harder, rather than all be superhard right off the bat). Currently all of the chambers are of similar difficulty, and within each chamber you have a few waves: Hard, Very hard, and (Can't get this far).

I think you should step back, take a look at the game, and ask yourself if you really want another event where the only really wanted jobs are WAR MNK WHM BLM BRD.

Don't get me wrong though- The event is quite fun even considering its difficulty. However, I'm concerned about being allowed to go by any serious group on the live servers when my most built up jobs are not the most popular ones.

On the test event, it was basically "come as you are, form a team and wing it," and after a few alliance beat-ins we hammered out a workable strategy with what we had- but no linkshell or serious group is going to accept this- They are going to mold the perfect setup with the perfect jobs and nobody else will be allowed.

Everything in life is about being the most efficient. Its not SE fault its human nature. They tried with the proc system and most hate it but unfortunately without it there will always be job exclusivity. You cant have both.

[Alhanelem]

On the contrary, it absolutely is SE's fault. Part of their fault is in class balance. The other part of their fault is in not designing the content such that many classes are valuable.

You do not need a proc syxtem to make more jobs valued. You need to make the things that those jobs DO more valued to make those jobs valued. People hate the proc system because 1) it slows down fights and 2) it's a very artificial way to include other jobs, because those jobs are not being included based on their merits but on the need to trigger a proc.

The bad news is the whole goal of this event is to kill stuff as fast as you can. This DIRECTLY caters to the perfectionist crowd.

The bit of good news is that you do not have to full-clear these battles to be rewarded- clearing the first wave drops a trophy and awards a key item (to the leader it seems?), which means you progress, as the KI from each battle is needed to unlock an extra one. Thus it's not totally inflexible, but average players will likely still be disheartened when they cannot fully complete the battle.

[zagam]

Class balance? so you want every melee to to do the same damage swings, same damage WS? so the only real difference between jobs is the color of the armor. SE gave variety in jobs. It has the most out of many MMORPGs don't blame SE for the players to find the most efficient ways to do things.

[Alhanelem]

Class balance? so you want every melee to to do the same damage swings, same damage WS? Umm, no, that's not what I want. Balanced does not mean "100% identical."

Balanced here would mean something more like "All classes in the same role category, should, using their own specific play style, be able to produce a comparable end result within that role." This does not mean 'every class hits with the same damage, delay, and weapon skills and every support class has the same buffs and heals for the same amounts with the same recast and same costs."

Yes, SE gave us variety in jobs, but having that variety is pointless if the variations are not accepted in events.


It has the most out of many MMORPGsActually, that's not true.

MapleStory has 27 jobs (Only final forms listed): Assassin, bandit, dual blade, Hero, Paladin, Dark Knight, Bowmaster, Crossbowmaster, Corsair, Buccaneer, Fire/Poison archmage, Ice/Lightning archmage, Bishop, Aran, Evan, Mercedes, Mechanic, Wild Hunter, Battle Mage, Demon Slayer, Cannoneer, Thunder breaker, Dawn warrior, Blaze wizard, Wind Archer, Night Walker, and another one I don't know the name of coming soon.

[zagam]

Umm, no, that's not what I want. Balanced does not mean "100% identical."

Balanced here would mean something more like "All classes in the same role category, should, using their own specific play style, be able to produce a comparable end result within that role." This does not mean 'every class hits with the same damage, delay, and weapon skills and every support class has the same buffs and heals for the same amounts with the same recast and same costs."

So again, SE has made different classes with different play styles and damage. which is exactly what you want. But because class A does 1% more damage then class B the more efficient players would rather take player A and its SE fault?
SE created proc system which is overwhelming unpopular and is basically disarming it buy having VW mobs capped the only lights that matter because the players demanded it. Face it, the end result is the mob dead as fast as possible and you'll never achieve that with a job that does less damage. You want all jobs to be included then you have to make all jobs capable of do that. Which....... you don't want.



And I said many not all, I can list hundreds of obscure games no ones ever heard of.

[Zeo]

I don't think it's so much having job tiers as it is having such disparity between them.

[Alhanelem]

So again, SE has made different classes with different play styles and damage. which is exactly what you want. But because class A does 1% more damage then class B the more efficient players would rather take player A and its SE fault?The disparity between some classes designed for the same role is much, much greater than "1%." Yes, it's SE's fault the classes are out of alignment, because they made the game and it's their job to make sure things are fair and balanced.

If you can complete Content X with Job Z in 10 minutes, and with job Y in 11 minutes, to me that's a trivial difference and no reasonable player should say "You're weaker than job Z so you cant play this content. Sorry!" It's when the disparity is more significant than that when there's a measureable balance issue that needs to be addressed. This is why Warrior got the nerf bat this patch- It was far more than "1%" better than most other jobs able to fill a DD role. Of course, that was just one part of the balance issues in the game.

[Greatguardian]

Jobs that suck in groups excel solo/lowman. Legion seemed to give solo/lowman jobs a niche at the least by making aggro/link ranges so ridiculous. If you want to roll PUP, advertise yourself as being the guy to hold the off-NMs while the big, bad Warriors beat the crap out of the /assist.

It's not like every group is going to be rolling with Aegis/Ochain Paladins for holding them (especially since an Aegis/Ochain PLD probably has some other completely decked out DD job they could bring, too).

[Alhanelem]

Jobs that suck in groups excel solo/lowman. Legion seemed to give solo/lowman jobs a niche at the least by making aggro/link ranges so ridiculous. If you want to roll PUP, advertise yourself as being the guy to hold the off-NMs while the big, bad Warriors beat the crap out of the /assist.Honestly not a bad idea (a VE automaton in recent updates is actually fairly durable, and SS is much more effective than it used to be) and I can see it happening, but it would be pretty tough without a sack and satchel full of dawn mulsums- You have to keep them in one place, the area is too big to move monsters around- To keep AoEs from hitting everyone, we had to put each mob in a corner. On our test run I used summoner, but blood pact timers ruin the job when you are under a time pressure (though pets stood up moderately well to the mobs)

Considering I don't usually regard you as one to think outside the box, props to you for doing so :)

[RocStar]

Is there another planned test event soon?