TP set since A.P.+2?

[Babekeke]

This is what I'm currently using, and it sets me at 27% haste. I figured it's about time for a complete overhaul, especially since relic feet +2 are a very nice TP piece, meaning I'll end up going back to Brego Gloves? Or is there a better hand piece that maybe doesn't over-spill on my haste?

If anyone has a suggestion for feet in the mean time until I get relic feet, I'd appreciate it^^

Please incude any suggestions for hollow earring replacement too (I didn't get Suppa, so it's not an option) and yes, I know I need epona's ><

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p605/roadkill81/TP.png

[Arcon]

Rancor Collar instead of Peacock Charm, Raider's Earring instead of Hollow Earring.

I'm not at all up to date on newer gear, I'm still using my Lv90 setup, but those two just came to mind.

[Babekeke]

Yeah, I was completey unaware of R.E. until we killed the NM and it dropped the other day. I was out-lotted though ><

PCC is more of a space-saver for me until BLU is higher level. And I reset hate so I could learn a BLU spell recently too ><

[Karbuncle]

Burn your Thief's Knife. Get it away. Thock/Triplus is good.

Dagger/Dagger/Raider's Boomerang/Nothin
+2 Head/Rancor/Brutal/Suppa (Or Raider/Suppa)
+2Body/+2hands/Rajas/Epona's
Athel/Twili/+2legs/Relic+2feet

Is what i Currently use. - Athos Feet instead of Relic+2 to cap haste and provide awesome-ness. I have both, Experimenting with +2 Relic for now though.

If you can't do Rancor, Asagaya Torque or whatever the devil its called is a good third place, Second Place to Nefarious Collar.

Rancor Mantle/Nefarious Collar is also a good Back/Neck Combo IIRC.

Either way, The above is a good set up. Epona's Ring and Brutal or Raider's is a good start for you. Oh, and Raider's Boomerang. Now. Its 100% Drop >_> brew it if you have too.

[Zirael]

From what I remember, Bebekeke prefers X-Bow for Acid Bolts, because playing in bigger parties most of the time. Other than that, I use the same set as Karbuncle's, pretty much, aside from collar, as I tank/lowman often, so chose to remain using Agasaya's Collar (swapping to Torero Torque when evasion starts to matter more).
In a week's time, if dat mined Denali Jacket +5 stats are confirmed, it will be another piece to look into.

[Babekeke]

Hmm, still looking for hands to cap haste when using relic +2 feet though. Assuming that brego's aren't the best option, despite taking me over the cap.

And for some reason I have almost every off-hand variant of dagger apart from Triplus >< I guess I could use Rapido and then I can afford to drop to 2% haste hands, if other stats are good enough.

[Karbuncle]

Rapido is pretty Meh. Twilight would be an acceptable offhand if you dont have triplus, though a STR-Thock would be preferable for a non relic/mythic. i wont even bring up Asteria or Coruscanti cause it would be absurd to consider those as a realistic goal.

You should also consider an Oynos Knife if you solo often, a Knife that gives you 15% Magic Haste is probably the best dagger we have lol.

I'm 99% positive it was shown that the set i posted above was superior to a capped haste set so long as that acc/atk on the hands is doing anything for you (I.E Capped haste will win in Abyssea).

Pretty sure it assumed unbuffed too. For Haste hands, i recommend Nohm/something Mitts, From Walk of Exchoes. STR+5 Double Attack+3 Haste +3.

As far as the Crossbow goes, Tachi: Ageha gives -30% Def, Angon -25%, so forth, I only mention this cause the above guy mentions you use it because of group things... You shouldn't really need to use acid bolts if others step up their game, But i see your reasoning.

Should still have a Raiders for some situations, Acid bolts are kinda meh on some mobs you'll fight.

On the Feet, Worst comes to worst, Just ditch Ballerines for Dusk/+1 feet, Net gain of about 10~11 attack.

[Vold]

Those WoE mittens are basically a lost cause lol. I've yet to see them hit the AH on Q but I suppose everyone that has gotten them has kept them... 'cause the other stuff from that walk has certainly appeared. But last I checked it was just presumed to drop from there because it doesn't anywhere else.

[Babekeke]

As it happens, we were in Uleg last night and I mentioned I had pop for Isge. A fellow THF pointed out I needed that dagger, so now I have Triplus.

Funny that you mention angon and Tachi: Ahega. I don't think I've ever seen a DRG come with us for my abyssea group (only once in VW groups too [probably due to the randomness of wyvern procs and how easily the wyvern dies.]) (also, due to the massive inv requirements of THF and BLM I refused to merit angon for my DRG because I don't want to always have a stack on me - don't get me wrong, I appreciate it's a very good merit), and only once remember a SAM coming with us for VW, but a WS that has a 50% CHR mod and only T1 skillchain properties over Tachi: Shoha and/or level 3 SCs... I've never seen it used.
(I keep mentioning VW like THFs get an invite to it lol) >.>
Probably worth mentioning though, that with blind bolts and exenterator, you'll almost never need eva gear. Even outside abyssea; even solo. Acid bolts on top of this is a bonus. And bloody bolts of course for those tight situations, or when your mage got slept >.>

Situational shit is situational, but I'm really getting tired of all these 'just in case' 1 job only items now. If I get much more stuff, I'll toss ravager's orb and use xbow on war too lol. (ok probably not, except when soloing/skilling up).

As for the haste cap not being as good as with 24% haste, I'm not sure. Ok it's only 2.5% haste, in exchange for STR DEX att and acc, but in the haste thread posted a few months back, I'm pretty sure that the gains of haste outweigh the gains from att/acc unless it's a massive gain from att/acc. The same reason you choose Raider's over an attack ammo. Though I guess the eventual maths will come down to lots of variables like your att/mobs def, and how close to the haste cap you are.

P.S. Just realised that I forgot to mention that my Thokchas are 1 DEX and 1 AGI that I can main-hand.

[Karbuncle]

24% Haste is actually 1.4 Away from Cap or so. Give or take a 0.1. So its 8STR, 12 Acc, and 16 Attack, 3% Triple Attack, and 2% Triple Attack Damage vs 1% Haste. - Honestly, The STR, Acc, and Atk win this time. (At low Haste Values, If you're getting haste or March, Capped Haste sets win).

As far as "just in cases" go. Raider's Boomerang should be glued to your Ranged slot. Acid Bolts are meh, Especially in Abyssea and Voidwatch(See Below), Sleep Bolts? Repose and Sleep, You should always have these in group situations, Bloody bolts? Get a WHM. Xbow is the Situational Piece these days.

If You're running out of room for gear, Kinda sucks, But Hey, I'm giving gear advice not storage management advice :P

Also:


but a WS that has a 50% CHR mod and only T1 skillchain properties over Tachi: Shoha and/or level 3 SCs... I've never seen it used.

Its a Shitty WS, but:

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Tachi:_Ageha

The 30% DEF Down lasts Three Minutes, Especially in Abyssea or Voidwatch, Thats pretty much the majority of Any fight. In Voidwatch you get so many wings, Its actually going to be more beneficial for a SAM to use this WS once, then continue with the normal pounding. 30% DEF down in Voidwatch is magnificent.

You should never have to use Acid Bolts. Ageha is more potent, and lasts longer, and most VW Groups bring SAM.


All in all, The game is all about Situational Pieces. But for the Bare bones?

Dagger/Dagger/Raider's/Empty
Raiders/Nefarious/Brutal/Suppa
Raiders/Raiders/Rajas/Eponas
Rancor/Twlight/Raider's/Relic+2

Thats your best bet for now i believe. Though Atheling/Rancor is not bad.

Thats your best bet :)

[Babekeke]

24% Haste is actually 1.4 Away from Cap or so. Give or take a 0.1. So its 8STR, 12 Acc, and 16 Attack, 3% Triple Attack, and 2% Triple Attack Damage vs 1% Haste. - Honestly, The STR, Acc, and Atk win this time. (At low Haste Values, If you're getting haste or March, Capped Haste sets win).

You added both stats from hands and feet there, and assumed haste is the only stat I have in those slost lol.

I'm saying I'll wear relic +2 feet anyway, so the triple attack stats are the same. And Raider's +2 vs Brego that I'm currently wearing is 3STR 3acc 16att vs 2.4% haste (I had this figure right, what I had wrong was your gear set is 23% not 24%) and 5 AGI (for eva/parrying/subtle blow?). And I'm not convinced that that's enough. (oh there's a 1% chance of set proc too with raider's +2 hands).

[Zirael]

You added both stats from hands and feet there, and assumed haste is the only stat I have in those slost lol.

I'm saying I'll wear relic +2 feet anyway, so the triple attack stats are the same. And Raider's +2 vs Brego that I'm currently wearing is 3STR 3acc 16att vs 2.4% haste (I had this figure right, what I had wrong was your gear set is 23% not 24%) and 5 AGI (for eva/parrying/subtle blow?). And I'm not convinced that that's enough. (oh there's a 1% chance of set proc too with raider's +2 hands).
You know your options, at least, how you proceed, it boils down to personal preference.
I think quite a few people use these excel spreadsheets to compare gear/buffs from more 'mathy' point of view:
http://tinyurl/montenten
Or use your gut feeling. Everything's situational anyway.

[Babekeke]

Heh I was trying to work out Monty's spreadsheet this morning but couldn't work it out before I had to go to work. Finally worked out where the stats I was interested in are displayed, and I was shocked to see that you are completely right. In fact, even in abyssea, Raider's +2 hands beats capping haste in hand slot.

I concede.

[Motenten]

At least til you start capping attack. And of course a sam using Ageha makes a rather dramatic change in that regard.

My most recent mob stat estimate was done on Pil. Not terribly well controlled, but overall it looks like level 110, 560 defense.

On its own, that means you'd need 1120 attack to cap. However with Ageha and Dia II active its defense drops to 336, and you cap at 672 att. Should be pushing decently past that if you're eating Red Curry Buns, never mind boosts from Berserk or Stalwart's Drinks (with those buffs you can go with Yellow Curry Buns for food, but if the buffs are down you won't be capping attack). At that point Brego starts to pull ahead.

[Babekeke]

Daft thing is... noone ever invites a THF to VW lol. I've only ever been WHM BLM SMN or MNK to VW. WoE is pretty much SMN onry too. My THF mainly comes out for dynamis and Abyssea, which are basically trash mobs anyway. :(

[Laphine]

funny i was using lv110 and 560 when i played around with toci+oce combo a bit ago. I never tested emp hands, and doing it now, they did win by quite a bit. But i was using a 120 vit 120 agi mob, and the dex from the hands put me at 173 dex. With lower agi, emp hands only wins by decimals. Thats from breaking the negative dstr i imagine.

Oh this makes me remember something i wanted to ask you Kinematics. Are the rules for negative fstr not completely understood? I noticed you simply make it -1 for w/e value of str under the targets vit. That was to simplify things? But considering we probably have negative dstr on anything hard, we are not getting the correct gains out of the different pieces of equip all times.

[Babekeke]

Finally got Epona's^^

[Motenten]

Oh this makes me remember something i wanted to ask you Kinematics. Are the rules for negative fstr not completely understood? I noticed you simply make it -1 for w/e value of str under the targets vit. That was to simplify things? But considering we probably have negative dstr on anything hard, we are not getting the correct gains out of the different pieces of equip all times.

It's just a bit of laziness on my part, but also not something that seemed to need much consideration. It was several months before I even found the first bugs dealing with fStr going negative at all.

However the basic math is understood. Minimum fStr is the negative of the weapon rank. EG: d45 weapon is rank 5, so lowest fStr is -5. I should probably get around to actually calculating that.

[Laphine]

Cool. I was actually thinking that maybe that fstr approximation table wasn't completely proven. That's probably because i always thought of approximation implying some lack of knowledge lol.

[Starry]

Sorta Derail:

Coming back after 2 years; and have no idea about the 'order' I should be trying to regear. Most of my stuff is pretty outdated(all 75 gear) and theres a lot to take in. I see a lot of people fulltiming full Raiders gear; is this 'good' now? I was always 'that thief' that had a sa/ta/ws(for each)/tp/eva/racc set and looking to regear them all; anyone have any links to a decent 'gear guide'?

[Karbuncle]

Sorta Derail:

Coming back after 2 years; and have no idea about the 'order' I should be trying to regear. Most of my stuff is pretty outdated(all 75 gear) and theres a lot to take in. I see a lot of people fulltiming full Raiders gear; is this 'good' now? I was always 'that thief' that had a sa/ta/ws(for each)/tp/eva/racc set and looking to regear them all; anyone have any links to a decent 'gear guide'?

No no god no, People who fulltime one set are still gimp morons who should be euthanized. You'll want to keep a SA / TA / SAWS / TAWS set etc etc.

Theres a lot of new TP Gear out, But to keep it REALISTIC for you? Check out my post on the first page. Go for your Empyrean +2 First. Empyrean+2 Head/body/hands/legs and some Haste feet are Acceptable for a good start. +2 Relic Feet are good replacement.

Theres a lot to take it, but empyrean+2 is your best starting point.

[Babekeke]

for your SA/WS gear, if you had Hecatomb gear before, find a friend with a high level in synergy and you can augment that to be still pretty competitive, without having to find all the new stuff. I think that heca +1 feet with the best luck and HQ augment are the best in slot for SA and DE/Evis/MS.

[Delvish]

The way I see it in the general sense, the Perle/Teal/Aurore gear is absolute minimum base line past 75. Anything less (beyond situational AF, Relic and other very obvious exceptions) is out-right. Next level comes Empy +1 (90+ standard), tied with Relic +2 (often macroed peices), and then Empy+2 (99 standard). When you start going for high quality, that is where the top tier VW bodies and Relic/Mythic/Empy weapons start coming into play. Naturally every job is different, but when I am checking out a player, this is the standard I base them on.

[Karbuncle]

for your SA/WS gear, if you had Hecatomb gear before, find a friend with a high level in synergy and you can augment that to be still pretty competitive, without having to find all the new stuff. I think that heca +1 feet with the best luck and HQ augment are the best in slot for SA and DE/Evis/MS.

Heca is absolute trash for Stand-Alone SA. Since if you use it, You're essentially going from 25% Haste, to -38% Haste (Heca+1 Set, not including body). Even for just 1 hit, thats a huuuuuuuuuge smash on your DPS. For a Solo Sneak Attack, and good Set would be...

Head - Aias Bonnet
Body - Loki's/Athos Tabard
Hands - Empyrean +2
Legs - Athos
Feet - Athos

As far as visible pieces go anyway.

Edit: For THF, you'll probably be stuck with this a baseline TP Set:

W.Turban
R.Harness
Dusk+1 Gloves
Aurore Legs
Dusk+1 Feet

For your Visible TP set. Dusk+1 is really cheap these days, that gives you 19% Haste, Needing 6 from other slots to cap. (7 techn), Tiercal Necklace + Goading Belt is good. Or Just a speed/Velo belt.

You'll want Twilight Later on of course. This is just temporary!

[Starry]

W.Turban
R.Harness
Dusk+1 Gloves
Aurore Legs
Dusk+1 Feet


Other then the legs(have homam) this is my exact setup right now; it's still competitive? lol

[Arcon]

Other then the legs(have homam) this is my exact setup right now; it's still competitive? lol

As he said, it's "baseline". There's several ways to improve on this, but that's all very easy to get (pretty much zero effort/time, only farming the right subligar, which, at this level, is a joke). Eventually you'll want some +2 gear and some other pieces that give you more Attack.

[Karbuncle]

Other then the legs(have homam) this is my exact setup right now; it's still competitive? lol

Well, As Arcon said, Its a baseline. That set isn't awful, It can cap haste with a Twilight Belt, but there's upgrades. Aurore is actually an upgrade to Homam if you have the room, but... I'd work on Empyrean +2 Set first. Make that your main goal for now.

[Arcon]

Aurore is actually an upgrade to Homam [..]

Homam looks cooler, stats matter not.

[Karbuncle]

Homam looks cooler, stats matter not.

I kinda liked how it looked when it first came out :X, now the color pink makes me rage.

I've killed many a Colibri because of that.

[Babekeke]

Heca is absolute trash for Stand-Alone SA. Since if you use it, You're essentially going from 25% Haste, to -38% Haste (Heca+1 Set, not including body). Even for just 1 hit, thats a huuuuuuuuuge smash on your DPS. For a Solo Sneak Attack, and good Set would be...

Sorry, I should have clarified. Apart from Bully while soloing (and only if I used SA 40 secs before attacking so I can SAWS while bully is still active), I only ever use stand alone SA or TA on mobs that don't want a lot of DPS on, we are trying to proc before zerging, Have a big AOE that's going to wipe my taru ass if I'm in range too often, or the mob is going to die before I have TP for next ws, but we want TH upgrade. If I have TP, I'll run in and TA Exen then solo SA and run out of range. No need for extra swings, so the slow is irrelevant.

With 20-30 seconds to get tp on most mobs I'll just stack SA with DE (outside) or Evis (inside) and TA with Exen. Even popping a solo WS if timers are still high.

I'm so glad that they fixed the TH upgrades to work on WS XD

Edit: after re-reading my post that you quoted, I actually meant for those WS when they are stacked with SA. Like I just mentioned, I solo SA to rarely that I don't even have a separate gear set for it anymore.

[Laphine]

I actually used heca on free sa/ta when i precharged them. It always seemed to me that haste, or delay for that matter, had no effect on the first melee round after engaging. Actually, that applies to auto attack as well. The only delay that matters is the fixed delay in the engage animation/auto attack. I never tested this, but i started noticing that i was unable to hit a rampart monster faster than my 2H friends in Bhaflau remnants, unless i was closer anyway.

But anyways, heca, even augmented, seems to be mostly obsolete now.

[Karbuncle]

Heca Cap +1, Heca Legs +1 are both Still amazing when Augmented. For Mercy and SA/WS. Feet Questionable, HQ is STR+11 DEX+4 i think with augments, Still pretty decent.

Also, It does matter. Delay between next attack is factored when you land the hit, So even precharging them, it still hits your DPS. But its really something to only consider if you have a lot of inventory ;o

[Laphine]

Thought this was about free sa/ta. Although the same rules could apply to Rudra, Mercy is completely different. For the usual THF i agree heca legs is amazing, but i think the aug cap and feet are questionable (ocelohmeh+1 and athos). Feet will even be inv-1 for the THF with Rudra. This was my way of thinking prior to the new nyzul stuff, which changes this yet again.

It's not the next attack, it's the first attack. I never used a better method but timestamp to check this, but coming from idle, both thf and drg take 5 secs (iirc) to get the first hit in. Fully equipped or naked.

[Karbuncle]

Thought this was about free sa/ta. Although the same rules could apply to Rudra, Mercy is completely different. For the usual THF i agree heca legs is amazing, but i think the aug cap and feet are questionable (ocelohmeh+1 and athos). Feet will even be inv-1 for the THF with Rudra. This was my way of thinking prior to the new nyzul stuff, which changes this yet again.

It's not the next attack, it's the first attack. I never used a better method but timestamp to check this, but coming from idle, both thf and drg take 5 secs (iirc) to get the first hit in. Fully equipped or naked.

What do you mean first hit? The Engaging > Swing Animation? Of course no gear effects that, What I'm talking about is the Delay between the First hit and next hit.

When you hit the mob, Your Delay for the next attack is calculated, Landing a hit in Full hecatomb caculates your next round based on that. As i said, It seems small but it hurts if you use it a lot in battle.

See what i mean now? The first hit will always be the same, But the Next hit is what suffers. Hopefully I'm explaining that better now.

[Laphine]

i'm not so sure the delay for the next round is calculated when you hit the previous, but that's certainly not unreasonable. Still, i never noticed a higher delay in the hit after a full slow SA. I also ninja swap after a hit, which makes me think that maybe haste is defined at real time. Is what you are saying fully tested/proven? My eyeball won't beat a real test for sure.

Still, a heavy slow set SA (if its damage increase beats everything else) has uses. The harder the target, more meaningful a sa/ta round becomes. Although the harder the target any thf should be stacking sa/ta with ws anyways.

[Karbuncle]

i'm not so sure the delay for the next round is calculated when you hit the previous, but that's certainly not unreasonable. Still, i never noticed a higher delay in the hit after a full slow SA. I also ninja swap after a hit, which makes me think that maybe haste is defined at real time. Is what you are saying fully tested/proven? My eyeball won't beat a real test for sure.

Still, a heavy slow set SA (if its damage increase beats everything else) has uses. The harder the target, more meaningful a sa/ta round becomes. Although the harder the target any thf should be stacking sa/ta with ws anyways.

Its not dynamic for sure, I Learned it from basic understanding of a Blog by Shamaya, He calculated best pieces of SA/TA Gear based on a few things, Slow is pretty detremental because, as described there, it impacts your next attack wrong.

An easy test of this though, Don't do it on THF, Go on WAR, or PLD, or something with a Long Delay weapon. Swing a few times, notice your delay, Then do an attack in full Slow and switch after you swing back to your haste

Delay is calculated when you land the hit, This i common knowledge i had thought. I can't site you anything, But as described above, You can test yourself pretty easily, With low delay weapons, its harder to notice i suppose.

[Arcon]

An easy test of this though, Don't do it on THF, Go on WAR, or PLD, or something with a Long Delay weapon.

Incredibly easy with any relic weapon (999 delay). Can use a stopwatch to time (with no other haste gear). Can probably even eyeball it. With 15% slow, the difference to a normal hit would be 2.5 seconds.

[Laphine]

yeah, should be easy to test. For now i'm more excited about playing dragon quest v tho lol.

[Karbuncle]

Incredibly easy with any relic weapon (999 delay). Can use a stopwatch to time (with no other haste gear). Can probably even eyeball it. With 15% slow, the difference to a normal hit would be 2.5 seconds.

Figured more people would have a greatsword laying around than a Relic weapon lol :P

[Aana]

FYI the relic feet+2 have been tested to only have lol2% triple damage enhancement. They really arent all the amazing.

[Karbuncle]

I always figured it was +3%.

+2% Doesn't really dent my uses for them. I still think they're pretty nice. Though, I may go back to Athos feet...

[Arcon]

FYI the relic feet+2 have been tested to only have lol2% triple damage enhancement. They really arent all the amazing.

Triple Attack +3% is pretty amazing, especially considering you can cap Haste easily without them.