Battle Balance Adjustment: Cure Potency

[Bayohne]

Since increasing the level cap to 99, we have been making systematic adjustments to jobs, battles and various other parameters.

The reason being that since our original plan was to maintain the level cap at 75, it was necessary to make adjustments to allow continued growth up to level 99 and to be able to add other types of new content.

We plan on addressing the following three issues with the next round of adjustments.


Resistance to Enfeebling Magic
We will be removing the instances of enfeebling magic not taking effect on monsters and HNMs that have resistance to specific elements. A very small number of special monsters will maintain the ability to completely resist enfeeblement, but it will become possible to cast enfeebling spells on most monsters that used to resist outright.
※Spells will not take effect every time and spells may still be resisted if your enfeebling skill is low. Monsters with high resistance will be enfeebled for a shorter amount of time.



Cure Potency
Cure potency will be affected more significantly by healing magic skill. If a player has high healing magic skill, cure potency will be greatly increased, but low healing magic skill will have almost no effect on cure potency. The effect of skill level on cure potency will vary based on the type of cure, but cures lower than Cure V will be affected the most. Note that Curaga, Cura and Waltzes will not be affected.

Cure I-IV: Up to 1.4 times the normal cure potency
Cure V-VI: Almost no change

With this adjustment combined with the increase of cure potency mentioned earlier (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20089), we would like to increase opportunities for mages jobs other than white mage to serve as healers.



TP Gained through Use of a Weaponskill
We will be adjusting the specs of save TP so that it serves as the minimum possible TP amount gained through using a weaponskill. In other words, the greater the amount of TP gained through the weaponskill and the save TP value itself will be the actual TP gained.

For example:

Save TP value is 20, TP gained through the weaponskill is 25: 25TP
Save TP value is 20, TP gained through the weaponskill is 15: 20TP
Save TP value is 20, weaponskill misses: 20TP

The TP gained after using a weaponskill will be more stable, but there will be fewer instances where players gain a very large amount of TP through one weaponskill. Also, with the adjustments to save TP, samurai’s job ability Hagakure’s save TP effects will be increased.


We would like the discussion in this thread focus on “Cure Potency” exclusively.

For the other two topics, please refer to the following threads:

Resistance to Enfeebling Magic
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20484　
TP Gained through Use of a Weaponskill
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20483

[Karbuncle]

I'm starting to think you guys are using Balance on purpose now :P

Good Adjustments, Some of them. TP Gained through Weaponskills though... I guess its just 1 nerf amongst 2 buffs. Can't complain!

Thanks for the update Bayohne ^^

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I can't complain about this, I'm just glad RDM will no longer heal for so little.

[Greatguardian]

The TP change constitutes a massive COR nerf, making our strongest roll (Miser's) effectively useless outside of Voidwatch.

Should've known, really. We've been waiting on our third roll for a year, and instead we get a buff to our strongest. Guess we don't really need 3 rolls if all the good ones get nerfed =/.

[Byrth]

I can't complain about this, I'm just glad WHM will no longer heal for so little.

ftfy

WHM Cure IV would cost about as much as a Cure III after this patch with AF3+2 pants. This makes them even more MP efficient and potent. It helps RDM a little bit and helps WHM a lot.

Edit: None of this helps a supporting DNC at all.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

ftfy

WHM Cure IV would cost about as much as a Cure III after this patch with AF3+2 pants. This makes them even more MP efficient and potent. It helps RDM a little bit and helps WHM a lot.

Edit: None of this helps a supporting DNC at all.

And? I don't want RDM to replace WHM..... try harder.

Ps. I could care less about a "supporting" DNC. They're powerful enough.

[Mageoholic]

Healing:

Implemented exactly how I personally wished it would be. Would love to see something similar applied to Enhancing skill to separate the native casters from those attaining abilities through sub jobs. For example a /WHM or /RDM casting haste for 15%. The same value as a RDM or WHM main. Enhancing Duration/Potency.

EX RDM or WHM casting haste scales to 20% (a 33% increase to potency over 50 levels of skill or a .63% increase per level, or approximately a .10% increase per skill point.) with a 33% duration increase (3 minutes > 4 minutes.)

Lets WHM and RDM cast a better haste, less often, and keeps a BRD/RDM's (for instance) ability to cast a 15% haste for 3 minutes. (should be applied similarly over the buffs each enhancing class has.) Clearly sets a distinction of jobs with skill and without skill.

I don't have anything to comment on regarding the healing change, exactly what I suggested a long time ago, perfect fix to an age old problem.

[Mageoholic]

DNC is powerful, if damage coming in is slower than the dreadfully long recast that a Waltz V can cause. DNC is a simple fix though, split the waltzs from the same timer. Not like they can be spammed anyway since they depend on TP to use, and a couple CW's will leave you with little to no TP real quick.

[brayen]

thats up to a 40% bonus on cure 1-4?
question now would be how much to reach the 40% value on cures(god knows my healing skill is low as all hell, so hard to skill up).
also, is this stuff being addressed for the upcoming (live) server update? or still just in the works?



DNC is powerful, if damage coming in is slower than the dreadfully long recast that a Waltz V can cause. DNC is a simple fix though, split the waltzs from the same timer. Not like they can be spammed anyway since they depend on TP to use, and a couple CW's will leave you with little to no TP real quick.

while it is true, any decent dancer should also be gaining tp very fast. the fix i would say should be splitting AoE waltz, healing waltz, and single target waltz. then look into adjusting recast timers as needed

[Daniel_Hatcher]

thats up to a 40% bonus on cure 1-4?
question now would be how much to reach the 40% value on cures(god knows my healing skill is low as all hell, so hard to skill up).
also, is this stuff being addressed for the upcoming (live) server update? or still just in the works?

2 x Regen ATMA 1 x Refresh and spam Cure on the undead in Attohwa.

Sounds like it's planned for the next Test Server update first.

[brayen]

2 x Regen ATMA 1 x Refresh and spam Cure on the undead in Attohwa.

Sounds like it's planned for the next Test Server update first.

does healing for dmg really skill up healing faster? i always heard of that as a rumor..but since it has always been such a worthless skill before no one has ever been able to give me a proper response

[Daniel_Hatcher]

does healing for dmg really skill up healing faster? i always heard of that as a rumor..but since it has always been such a worthless skill before no one has ever been able to give me a proper response

Yeah, much quicker.

[Septimus]

And? I don't want RDM to replace WHM..... try harder.

Ps. I could care less about a "supporting" DNC. They're powerful enough.

It isn't about RDM replacing WHM, it is about RDM (and SCH) having some usefulness in this game. WHM has a strangle-hold on curing, while being a superior enhancer and a decent enfeebler. RDM is a stronger enfeebler, but is a slow that has 10% more slow on it worth a party spot considering that anything RDM can land enfeebles on a WHM will be able to do so with ease anymore? No one wants to go back to the Pink Mage days, but as it stands RDM is a complete waste of an alliance spot; curing, enfeebling, and enhancing need to be improved to make the job worthwhile again.

[Mageoholic]

We are mad that BRDs and SMNs heal as well as we do...We will look into it
We are mad that RDM and SCH lack a big heal...We will look into it.

Here you go BRDs and SMNs will no longer heal as well as you, and you have a big heal... Healing still sucks fix it SE.

(how is it that people will gripe and gripe and gripe no matter what this company does.)

But ya enhancing and enfeebling need to be adjusted. As I mentioned above (which is the fairest way to implement this. and puts RDM and SCH at the head of the pack in terms of skill based improvements.)

[Economizer]

does healing for dmg really skill up healing faster? i always heard of that as a rumor..but since it has always been such a worthless skill before no one has ever been able to give me a proper response

As a White Mage that is currently less then two points from capping their Healing Magic skill, some advice.

If your skill is really, really low, go there-forth and PL, someone will thank you for it.

If you feel like power leveling it, go to Abyssea-Attohwa and find the EP skeletons, wear as much PDT gear as possible (Earth Staff, Twilight Torque, and Cheviot Cape should do, but more is better), and equip Atma of the Mounted Champion, Atma of Vicissitude, and Atma of the Minikin Monstrosity. Bonus points if you can sub Red Mage for Phalanx, but this should be unnecessary. Spam cures, the Regen from Atmas should take care of everything.

Finally, aside from nuking undead with cures (which is only a good idea for skilling up btw, and Banish spells are only a good idea for the defense down on undead) skillups go something like this: Status Removal > Healing Damage > Healing No Damage.


No one wants to go back to the Pink Mage days

The Pink Mage days come back the second you can do the majority of content with a healer that is just barely, with lots of pain and strain, and undoubtedly will cause high burnout rates, just hardly barely good enough to fill the curing position while having superior MP longevity against a White Mage. If people don't want those days to come back then Red Mage must never be close enough to fill the role just barely. It is a very tight balance position.

Honestly, I don't have a lot of information on these changes, but if they make Healing Magic skill useful, I won't mind White Mage's stranglehold on curing being diminished (and I definitely see hints that it is diminished just by my ability to cure more and more situations without even busting out Cure V these days), it has been something I've been asking for a long time. Of course, we could use more information on what they intend, but so far my reaction is mostly positive. I really would hope that Cure V/VI scale in MP efficiency with this change regardless of if their cure amounts change much, but this will be forgivable if we cannot convince SE.

The best of wishes go out to Red Mages, Scholars, and Paladins - the healing arts are our greatest weapon, and soon will come the day of reckoning where undead once again fear 99999 damage cures, everyone can make a massive impact when it comes to stoppering death, and Healing Magic is finally useful!

[Mageoholic]

I really would hope that Cure V/VI scale in MP efficiency with this change regardless of if their cure amounts change much, but this will be forgivable if we cannot convince SE.

Cure 3 and Cure 4 have me all hot and bothered as a WHM right now, its going to be sweet to gain mana casting these.

[Economizer]

Cure 3 and Cure 4 have me all hot and bothered as a WHM right now, its going to be sweet to gain mana casting these.

Gain mana? If you mean the AF3+2 pants, you can only negate the cost of a spell - it never gives you more then you put in otherwise Cura spells might actually be useful (oh wait, they still wouldn't, Curaga spells).

If this isn't what you meant, can you please clarify? I don't understand what you mean.

[Mageoholic]

yes i look at is as gaining 44MP I can use that elsewhere right away. Makes for very efficient casting. I guess saving MP would have been a better way to state it.

But free heals is mana I can use on other spells (Banishes, Holys etc).

[SpankWustler]

Cure Potency
Cure potency will be affected more significantly by healing magic skill. If a player has high healing magic skill, cure potency will be greatly increased, but low healing magic skill will have almost no effect on cure potency. The effect of skill level on cure potency will vary based on the type of cure, but cures lower than Cure V will be affected the most. Note that Curaga, Cura and Waltzes will not be affected.

Cure I-IV: Up to 1.4 times the normal cure potency
Cure V-VI: Almost no change


This part sounds good. Red Mage, Scholar, and Paladin gain more curing power and White Mage gains even more MP efficiency on lower tier cures.


With this adjustment combined with the increase of cure potency mentioned earlier (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20089), we would like to increase opportunities for mages jobs other than white mage to serve as healers.

The Development Bros should keep in mind that people aren't going to wear equipment or use abilities that actually make individuals and groups perform worse rather than better, so I wouldn't count on this part of the change actually changing anything.

Still, nothing is being made to suck more, so I'm happy about that.

[Zirael]

What about Blue Mage? Will healing magic skill new formula work on BLU spells too?

[Byrth]

And? I don't want RDM to replace WHM..... try harder.

The point was that even if you could do all content with a Red Mage, White Mage would be a better choice. They're more MP efficient and have better offensive buffs.

[Vagrua]

Edit: I'm not entirely sure if the op is saying that the 50 cure potency will be passed from this healing magic update or not. To Bayohne, are you saying that the 1.4 will be applied to the current cure potency the player possesses (for instance, 50 cure potency times 1.4 to get 20 added cure potency)or would there be no boost at all?

[Mageoholic]

What about Blue Mage? Will healing magic skill new formula work on BLU spells too?


does blu have healing magic skill? might work if rdm sch whm or pld sub it though.

[Byrth]

Idk. With this update, a RDM with a full Cure Potency set could possibly hit 850-900 Cure IVs. (Maybe more depending on their cure set) That, along with their insane fast cast and enfeebles, make a good contender.

I calculated a regular Cure IV w/ full 50 cure potency set and 100MND times 1.4 to get those numbers. That's not to say that maybe only a WHM with capped healing magic could hit the 1.4 boost to the spells.

White Mage can do the same thing and get 5% MP (42~45 MP) off the casting cost. You should really be comparing the 5% improvement given by Dia III (compared to Dia II) to Boost - STR.

[Vagrua]

White Mage can do the same thing and get 5% MP (42~45 MP) off the casting cost. You should really be comparing the 5% improvement given by Dia III (compared to Dia II) to Boost - STR.

That would be 25STR vs 5% defense down if I'm reading my source right.

[Byrth]

Yep! Outside Abyssea, 25 STR is about +6 base damage and +12~13 attack. For 1H weapons, +6 Base damage is a lot. Also, the Boost spell only has to be cast once every 5 minutes and costs very little MP while Dia III would have to be cast on every monster.

Additionally, WHM can sub THF and not lose -na spells. I have a mule with RDM and WHM, and RDM only gets used in Salvage. If I could cast Temper and Gain-STR on party members, it would probably get used in Dynamis too. As it is, and as it will be, WHM is more MP efficient and offers better offensive buffs. It isn't like I'm choosing WHM or RDM because of Cure V in those events.

[Atoreis]

Yep! Outside Abyssea, 25 STR is about +6 base damage and +12~13 attack. For 1H weapons, +6 Base damage is a lot. Also, the Boost spell only has to be cast once every 5 minutes and costs very little MP while Dia III would have to be cast on every monster.

Additionally, WHM can sub THF and not lose -na spells. I have a mule with RDM and WHM, and RDM only gets used in Salvage. If I could cast Temper and Gain-STR on party members, it would probably get used in Dynamis too. As it is, and as it will be, WHM is more MP efficient and offers better offensive buffs. It isn't like I'm choosing WHM or RDM because of Cure V in those events.

If we really talk about optimal lowman for things like dynamis/salvage etc. then... BLU/dnc+brd/thf :P

[Aleste]

Seems theres no edit button on the mobile viewed webpage. Ill delete the above when i get home.

Will the emnity generation for cure 4 still remain the same? Im surprised noone has touched upon it yet...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Seems theres no edit button on the mobile viewed webpage. Ill delete the above when i get home.

Will the emnity generation for cure 4 still remain the same? Im surprised noone has touched upon it yet...

Of course it will, that was always the downfall of Cue IV.

[Economizer]

does blu have healing magic skill? might work if rdm sch whm or pld sub it though.

Assuming it does have a big impact, you'd want to sub Scholar for Light Arts. The question is whether Blue Mage cures are boosted enough to counter losing Cure IV (and Haste, Refresh, and whatever else /RDM gives, or Haste, Curaga, and Stona if /WHM). I somehow doubt the impact will be big enough to make people goes /SCH though.

[saevel]

Assuming it does have a big impact, you'd want to sub Scholar for Light Arts. The question is whether Blue Mage cures are boosted enough to counter losing Cure IV (and Haste, Refresh, and whatever else /RDM gives, or Haste, Curaga, and Stona if /WHM). I somehow doubt the impact will be big enough to make people goes /SCH though.

BLU cures are already more powerful then Cure IV. M.Fruit and P.Emrbace are both Cure V but with less base cure power. They still receive the same scaling with skill and MND that Cure V gets, so with enough skill and MND Fruit blows Cure IV away in potency and Embrace is almost a Cure V in strength. BLU just has limited access to cure potency gear, 20~30% is achievable though.

Honestly I don't worry about BLU becoming stronger in healing, their already the 2nd best healer in the game, yet nobody would know the difference. As long as people don't try to force RDM's into brute curing again, which I don't think they'll be doing, everything should be fine.

[saevel]

That would be 25STR vs 5% defense down if I'm reading my source right.

More complicated then that. Defense down scales like haste.

10% defense down ends up being and 11.1% increase in attack (100/90). 15% Defense down is 17.6% increase in attack (100/85). 25 STR vs +6.5% attack is what it boils down to. Thing is, defense down stacks, so once you add on Agnon (-20) it becomes -30% vs -35% or +42% vs +53.8%. Basically you can cap ratio on everyone with the appropriate defense down debuffs.

Honestly nothing will ever compete with WHM for cure power. The NM's that SE has been creating have far to high a damage output to rely on using Cure IV and Curaga II. That and the hate would get your healer killed.

[hiko]

With this adjustment combined with the increase of cure potency mentioned earlier, we would like to increase opportunities for mages jobs other than white mage to serve as healers.


The Development Bros should keep in mind that people aren't going to wear equipment or use abilities that actually make individuals and groups perform worse rather than better, so I wouldn't count on this part of the change actually changing anything.

Still, nothing is being made to suck more, so I'm happy about that.

help rdm curing themself after convert....

[Economizer]

BLU cures are already more powerful then Cure IV. M.Fruit and P.Emrbace are both Cure V but with less base cure power. They still receive the same scaling with skill and MND that Cure V gets, so with enough skill and MND Fruit blows Cure IV away in potency and Embrace is almost a Cure V in strength. BLU just has limited access to cure potency gear, 20~30% is achievable though.

Yes, but with the limited information we have, they are saying that Cure V won't see much difference. Basically, we can assume that if Blue Mage spells are getting a boost, Blue Mage spells based on Cure V wouldn't get an increase. I think the question for BLU in relation to this is if it will change what sub is the most viable or not. I don't think it will given the information we have now, but it is hard to say.

On Blue Mage's curing power... If Red Mages were as stubborn about being damage dealers only as Blue Mages are I think this game would be a lot different.

[Sarick]

From what I'm reading they aren't changing the basic cure formulas for cures 1-4. What they're doing instead is either removing the caps on the bonuses skill can provide or raising them to cap out at higher skill.

This is much like the limits phalanx had before the level caps increased. Before the increases I think 300 skill would max out phalanx potency and any additional enhancing skill would no longer effect it. The biggest issue was base skills without gear would easily exceed 300 at higher levels. After the level increased the devs decided to raise the amount of skill beyond 300 allowing the spell to grow more.

If this is the case with cures 1-4 then the caps that where placed on them are simply getting raised so they no longer stop growing as you level. A low level player will still cure 1 for about the same amount but as they increase in level/skill it'll be much stronger at higher levels.

[Geabrielle]

I actually have a big question to pair with this adjustment; Is Tranquil Heart going to adjusted as well to help with the enmity problem? I am unsure as to if there are multiple tiers of this because it there is ... I sort of don't notice the -enmity from the trait without excess amounts of gear slots which could be best used for other stats.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Tranquil Heart is applied separately from the -enmity cap from gear.

[Geabrielle]

I know that. And I still don't even notice it's effectiveness. Is why I asked.

[Neisan_Quetz]

It's like -9 enmity on top of cap at max iirc.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

From what I'm reading they aren't changing the basic cure formulas for cures 1-4. What they're doing instead is either removing the caps on the bonuses skill can provide or raising them to cap out at higher skill.

don't think skill ever capped on healing, it was just so small an increase it wasn't worth mentioning.

[saevel]

Yes, but with the limited information we have, they are saying that Cure V won't see much difference. Basically, we can assume that if Blue Mage spells are getting a boost, Blue Mage spells based on Cure V wouldn't get an increase. I think the question for BLU in relation to this is if it will change what sub is the most viable or not. I don't think it will given the information we have now, but it is hard to say.

On Blue Mage's curing power... If Red Mages were as stubborn about being damage dealers only as Blue Mages are I think this game would be a lot different.

That's why I'm waiting to see what they actually do about curing.

If BLU existed back in 2003, then you can bet they'd be forced to be healers. RDM got shoved into that role due to a lack of WHM's and RDM being "just good enough". Then the player base forced RDM's to stay there, all due to a minority of idiots who though they could melee in mage gear without skills leveled.

Anyhow, lets see how this all turns out. Considering SE's recent masterful trolling with the VWNM tickets, I can see them totally screwing this up.

[Mageoholic]

More complicated then that. Defense down scales like haste.

No actually it doesn't scale like haste at all, what you have described is an inverse function. 15% defense down is the equivalent of adding 17.6% Attack. (20% is the same as adding 25% attack).

Increasing a base attack of 300 by 17.6% is 351, Increasing it by 25% is 375 a 6.8% increase, (even though you added 7.4% effectively to attack.)

Haste however works differently going from 40-45 % haste for example is effectively a 9.8% increase to attack speed, even though you only really added 5%. (nearly doubling the added amount)



If BLU existed back in 2003, then you can bet they'd be forced to be healers. RDM got shoved into that role due to a lack of WHM's and RDM being "just good enough".

when will you kids learn that EXP parties are not the only party of the game. WHM was and always has been better then RDM in end game related content. EXP is a means to an end and is an irrelevant comparative example. SMN/WHM could heal EXP, doesn't make them a good choice for a Nidhog or Cerb healer does it.

[SpankWustler]

From what I'm reading they aren't changing the basic cure formulas for cures 1-4. What they're doing instead is either removing the caps on the bonuses skill can provide or raising them to cap out at higher skill.

This is much like the limits phalanx had before the level caps increased. Before the increases I think 300 skill would max out phalanx potency and any additional enhancing skill would no longer effect it. The biggest issue was base skills without gear would easily exceed 300 at higher levels. After the level increased the devs decided to raise the amount of skill beyond 300 allowing the spell to grow more.

If this is the case with cures 1-4 then the caps that where placed on them are simply getting raised so they no longer stop growing as you level. A low level player will still cure 1 for about the same amount but as they increase in level/skill it'll be much stronger at higher levels.

At present, the effects of Healing Magic skill don't cap, they just suck horribly.

You could theoretically go all the way up to 999 skill or higher and still notice an effect and also notice that the effect sucked horribly.

Healing Magic skill increases do have a more pronounced effect at much lower levels, but that has to do with relatively lower base Healing Magic skill and soft caps on cures.

[Saenomo]

I know Healing Magic skill greatly affects BLU healing spells regardless of level, and thanks to a /SCH Light Arts setup, you can have a rather impressive cure spell, even without adding in Cure Potency spells. I'm really curious to see if /SCH's Healing Magic skill will push a BLU's spells even further than they already do. If it does effect our lower end spells more, we may very well chose to step back into a more MP efficient spell than to favour the impressive Plenilune Embrace.

Of course, if we could slip those spells under our actual Blue Magic skill instead, that would also still be fun to hear, considering giving a job tools that require skills you don't have (*cough*Throwing*cough*) is kinda like forcing their hand when it comes to subjobs.

PS: I love my 33% chance to curse things chakram. Now if only I could hit with it on something that I didn't have 40+ levels on due to subjob having some skill that'll let it land.

[saevel]

I know Healing Magic skill greatly affects BLU healing spells regardless of level, and thanks to a /SCH Light Arts setup, you can have a rather impressive cure spell, even without adding in Cure Potency spells. I'm really curious to see if /SCH's Healing Magic skill will push a BLU's spells even further than they already do. If it does effect our lower end spells more, we may very well chose to step back into a more MP efficient spell than to favour the impressive Plenilune Embrace.

Of course, if we could slip those spells under our actual Blue Magic skill instead, that would also still be fun to hear, considering giving a job tools that require skills you don't have (*cough*Throwing*cough*) is kinda like forcing their hand when it comes to subjobs.

PS: I love my 33% chance to curse things chakram. Now if only I could hit with it on something that I didn't have 40+ levels on due to subjob having some skill that'll let it land.

Here

http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/cure/Cure_Calculator.html

Cure calculator. Fruit and Embrace as just Cure V with lower cure power. It scales the same as C5 and Carrot scales as C3.

As it stands now, you shouldn't be using Embrace much if ever. Its only 100 cure power higher then Fruit, which considering they both have the same soft cap on cure power, isn't really that much more. It's MP cost is too high compared to Fruit, and Fruit casts faster and has a lower recast. Only time I'd think about Embrace would be if it was past 75% moon phase.

[SpankWustler]

Here

http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/cure/Cure_Calculator.html

Cure calculator. Fruit and Embrace as just Cure V with lower cure power. It scales the same as C5 and Carrot scales as C3.

To expand on this, there are two main reasons it feels like Healing Magic skill has a greater effect on Blue Magic than actual Healing Magic.

The first one is pretty obvious. Since Blue Mage's main source of Healing Magic skill that Blue Mage's sub-job, a player gains skill in increments of 100+ rather than 5 or 10. This can make Healing Magic skill feel more potent than it actually is.

The second is slightly more involved. Blue Magic cures have lower MP costs and lower constants (base cure power, essentially) compared to their White Magic counterpart but they share one growth rate. This means that MND and Healing Magic skill result in a better relative change in power and MP efficiency, although the actual number by which the spell is increased is identical to Cure V.

[Nightfyre]

I'm definitely concerned by the lack of any mention of Magic Fruit or Plenilune Embrace here, and I think this is a good opportunity for SE to move BLU cures from being healing skill-based to blue magic skill-based. /SCH isn't a great sub choice as a support unit (no haste for party outside of Diffusion), and /RDM and /WHM obviously have subjob-level healing magic. Shifting the formula over to blue magic allows BLU cures to gain about 10-15% in raw curing power, and then you can stack the new skill adjustment over that but maybe apply it in the same fashion as you're currently doing for Cure 5-6. Not going to lie, I'd love a more powerful adjustment a la cures 1-4, but I can understand concerns on that front so I'm willing to settle for a smaller bonus here. BLU's output remains balanced when playing in a frontline role since it can't make effective use of its cure potency options in the main/sub slots in that situation, and it still has reasonably effective curing potential when on the backline. I doubt it'll hold on to its second-best status after this change, but it'll at least be functional still.

Cures for <550 just don't cut it these days and Plenilune Embrace is very slow and inefficient, so please don't leave BLU out of this adjustment.

[saevel]

I'm definitely concerned by the lack of any mention of Magic Fruit or Plenilune Embrace here, and I think this is a good opportunity for SE to move BLU cures from being healing skill-based to blue magic skill-based. /SCH isn't a great sub choice as a support unit (no haste for party outside of Diffusion), and /RDM and /WHM obviously have subjob-level healing magic. Shifting the formula over to blue magic allows BLU cures to gain about 10-15% in raw curing power, and then you can stack the new skill adjustment over that but maybe apply it in the same fashion as you're currently doing for Cure 5-6. Not going to lie, I'd love a more powerful adjustment a la cures 1-4, but I can understand concerns on that front so I'm willing to settle for a smaller bonus here. BLU's output remains balanced when playing in a frontline role since it can't make effective use of its cure potency options in the main/sub slots in that situation, and it still has reasonably effective curing potential when on the backline. I doubt it'll hold on to its second-best status after this change, but it'll at least be functional still.

Cures for <550 just don't cut it these days and Plenilune Embrace is very slow and inefficient, so please don't leave BLU out of this adjustment.

BLU cures would gain significantly more then 10~15% if they shifted from Healing Skill to Blue Skill. I know I've said it several times now, SE was lazy when they coded the original Blue heal spells and just reused Cure V with lower cure power. This means the spells scale the same way and have the same caps. My BLU/WAR Fruits are on par with my RDM's Cure IV, and my RDM has about 10% more Cure Pot then my BLU. As BLU/WHM my Fruits beat my RDM's Cure IVs even though the RDM has native healing skill and more Cure Potency. Fruit also happens to be cheaper and Cure IV. All this is without going into Embrace or Carrot (Carrot is a Cure III clone) or even W.Wind.

If SE alters BLU healing spells, they would have to severely nerf them in order for them not to shoot up in potency.

Plus, with how BLU is now, giving them more Cure power would be like giving WAR a Cure V.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I doubt it'll hold on to its second-best status after this change, but it'll at least be functional still.

As it should be.

[Nightfyre]

BLU cures would gain significantly more then 10~15% if they shifted from Healing Skill to Blue Skill. I know I've said it several times now, SE was lazy when they coded the original Blue heal spells and just reused Cure V with lower cure power. This means the spells scale the same way and have the same caps. My BLU/WAR Fruits are on par with my RDM's Cure IV, and my RDM has about 10% more Cure Pot then my BLU. As BLU/WHM my Fruits beat my RDM's Cure IVs even though the RDM has native healing skill and more Cure Potency. Fruit also happens to be cheaper and Cure IV. All this is without going into Embrace or Carrot (Carrot is a Cure III clone) or even W.Wind.

If SE alters BLU healing spells, they would have to severely nerf them in order for them not to shoot up in potency.

Plus, with how BLU is now, giving them more Cure power would be like giving WAR a Cure V.

I checked my numbers with the cure calculator prior to posting. Maybe you should do the same.

By the way, RDM can get significantly more curepot than BLU even without weapons. It's not SE's fault if your Magic Fruits outpace your Cure 4s in per-cure output and it hasn't been for a while now. A 10% increase plus a minor increase from the healing skill update (remember that Cures 5-6 will receive a significantly lower bonus than Cures 1-4) won't put Magic Fruit anywhere near a properly geared Cure 4 post-update.

Your final statement is a gross exaggeration. BLU doesn't have the DD output of WAR and doesn't have the raw curing power of Cure V regardless of my proposal.

EDIT: And if it wasn't clear to SE in my initial post, I'm proposing that the healing skill adjustments be applied via blue magic rather than healing skill if my suggestion is implemented.


As it should be.

Do you ever get tired of being a one-trick pony?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Do you ever get tired of being a one-trick pony?

OP is OP, deal with it.

If you genuinely think BLU should be a better healer than DNC, RDM or SCH (especially). Shame on you.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Except that isn't what he was asking at all. You really are being inane if you think Blu is OP.

[Economizer]

By the way, RDM can get significantly more curepot than BLU even without weapons. It's not SE's fault if your Magic Fruits outpace your Cure 4s in per-cure output and it hasn't been for a while now.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but a Blue Mage that gears for it is a powerful healer.

Blue Mage can get 32% cure potency in gear (28% without add-on augments, but you can cap in Abyssea while still doing procs). We'll assume 150 Healing Magic, 90 MND/VIT from a terribly stated out BLU who only focused on cure potency.

We'll compare to a RDM with 50% cure potency, 150 MND, 80 VIT, and capped Healing Magic.

The Blue Mage will get Cure 43, Cure II 122, Cure III 256, Cure IV 510, Healing Breeze 233 (AoE), Wild Carrot 242, Magic Fruit 574, Plenilune Embrace 719, and White Wind (AoE).

The Red Mage will get Cure 52, Cure II 147, Cure III 306, Cure IV 618.

For stats that were terribly slanted in the Red Mage's favor, this is incredibly disappointing for the Red Mage.

The reason that White Mage dominates healing is mostly because of the ability to spam several large cures in a short amount of time without burning through a ton of MP. (e.g. If you think Cure VI is a reason White Mage is good at healing, you are mentally deficient, and if you think WHM being able to cast a Cure IV for 108 points more would make a big difference if White Mage lost Cure V, you'd also be similarly lacking mental capacity on a scientifically proven scale.)

Basically, having two more large cures (which are more MP efficient then the Red Mage's Cure IV) then the Red Mage is what will make the difference, and make the Blue Mage a better healer currently.

Considering that more and more things these days are able to be handled with just Cure III/IV (and many more would be able to be handled if there was a Cure IV a and Cure IV b for recast purposes) this further skews things in the favor of the Blue Mage.

The basic conclusion is that Blue Mage is the second best healer in the game, provided that they are set for healing (note that this is not a statement that Blue Mage is unbalanced or not, merely statement of about Blue Mage being the second most powerful healer as of right now).

[Camate]

Howdy!

Here are some responses from the development team to questions regarding the cure potency adjustments.



Was receiving benefits from stacking MND put off?


After looking into various possibilities such a MND and healing magic skill itself, we decided to go with adjustments to healing magic skill after considering the benefits this would give to jobs that possess this skill. MND affects cure potency more than in the past and the effect will remain as it is.



Will there be any changes to the success rate of removing Death?


With the current system, the higher the healing magic skill, the higher the success rate will be. However, to balance this with the rate of success of Holy Water, there is no 100% success rate even if your skill is very high.



Will the values of blue magic-type healing spells also be increased?


Since the main focus of this adjustment is for Cure–Cure VI, there will be no changes to blue magic spell’s cure potency.



With this adjustment, when using Cure IV with +50% cure potency, you can cure for around 850 HP, so it would be really nice if you could lower the amount of enmity gained after curing.


Since a fundamental rule of battle is that enmity increases as the amount of HP you restore increases, after considering the relationship of Cure V and Cure VI, this rule is being maintained. It would be best to mitigate this increase with Tranquil Heart and equipment that decreases enmity.

[Economizer]

Was wondering when this would be translated, I almost said something about it but I didn't understand it clearly enough before and was being cautious.


After looking into various possibilities such a MND and healing magic skill itself, we decided to go with adjustments to healing magic skill after considering the benefits this would give to jobs that possess this skill. MND affects cure potency more than in the past and the effect will remain as it is.

I would like to reiterate my thanks for making Healing Magic Skill useful.


With the current system, the higher the healing magic skill, the higher the success rate will be. However, to balance this with the rate of success of Holy Water, there is no 100% success rate even if your skill is very high.

The last time we got a statement about this was some time ago and I got the impression that Healing Magic didn't affect removal rates. This has been backed up the the seeming lack of removal rate difference between myself and someone subbing White Mage... and my skill is currently two points from cap.


Since a fundamental rule of battle is that enmity increases as the amount of HP you restore increases, after considering the relationship of Cure V and Cure VI, this rule is being maintained. It would be best to mitigate this increase with Tranquil Heart and equipment that decreases enmity.

If enmity control becomes an issue with the increased cure amount (as in people are still complaining about it a few months after it gets implemented) please consider having higher Healing Magic Skill increase the effectiveness of Tranquil Heart by some amount.

[SpankWustler]

The last time we got a statement about this was some time ago and I got the impression that Healing Magic didn't affect removal rates. This has been backed up the the seeming lack of removal rate difference between myself and someone subbing White Mage... and my skill is currently two points from cap.

I'm guessing, if skill has or should have any effect, either the cap is very low or the effect is simply broken and no Development Bro has ever noticed. The latter has been noticed with more and more difficult-to-eyeball stuff, such as additional effects on weapons and Blue Magic, so it wouldn't surprise me.

[Mageoholic]

If enmity control becomes an issue with the increased cure amount (as in people are still complaining about it a few months after it gets implemented) please consider having higher Healing Magic Skill increase the effectiveness of Tranquil Heart by some amount.

Could always add a couple ranks of the tier at a lower level If this change affects all levels then low level healers could find themselves pulling hate more than they would like. Could make sense to add another tier, and maybe bring the total amount of enmity reduction from TH to 1.4 or so to offset some of the 1.4 increase to baseline healing done. (on RDM and SCH maybe, leave WHM off additional tiers as they have C5.)

[Dragoy]

Will there be any changes to the success rate of removing Death?With the current system, the higher the healing magic skill, the higher the success rate will be. However, to balance this with the rate of success of Holy Water, there is no 100% success rate even if your skill is very high.
I guess this is about Doom, instead of Death, really, even if the end-result is pretty much the same? ^^;

Either way, I will never accept that Holy Water and Cursna only have a possibility of removing the effect.
It makes no sense so far as I can tell.

While we are at it, why not implement this to each, and every one of the detrimental effects.

Paralyna -> 15% chance of removing Paralysis.
Blindna -> 15% chance of removing Blindness.
Raise -> 15% chance of removing K.O. status.

Et cetera...

You'll catch my drift, I'm sure.
I have played every Final Fantasy game from number 1 to 12, and 14, including the 'spin-offs' and whatnots like Mystic Quest, and I can't remember such an effect for a medicine/spell from them.
If there is even one, I'm sure someone will notify me about it, but it sure as Death did not make an impact enough for me to remember it right now, so I doubt it!

I know it will not happen, but I would implore you to reconsider on changing this into something that makes sense.
That is, either have a 100% rate of removing the effect, or, change all the others to be the same (meaning Paralyna and the rest has a chance to remove the effect that is desired to be gone).

[Nightfyre]

OP is OP, deal with it.

If you genuinely think BLU should be a better healer than DNC, RDM or SCH (especially). Shame on you.
Evidently you can't read.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but a Blue Mage that gears for it is a powerful healer.
Burst what bubble? I'm aware BLU is a capable healer and I have very good BLU cure sets that allow me to realize that potential. You seem to have missed the point of that statement, which was to point out that Saevel's complaint about per-cure healing capacity is entirely a product of their own gear choices rather than what each job is actually capable of.

[Economizer]

You seem to have missed the point of that statement, which was to point out that Saevel's complaint about per-cure healing capacity is entirely a product of their own gear choices rather than what each job is actually capable of.

Then your statement's point was nonsensical, has nothing to do with actual healing, and is just about making an unimportant number larger. Might as well be talking a White Mage into spamming Cure VI because it cures more.

It doesn't matter an ounce if you can heal 44 more HP on a spell because you have 20% more cure potency gear when the guy also has two more spells on separate recast timers (not to mention that one heals for over one hundred HP more so that throws out the flawed big numbers argument). It doesn't matter if you have 20% more cure potency if half his spells are more MP efficient even after that extra potency is taken into account.

Being technically right about a useless number is pointless if the spirit of the argument is lost. In this case the spirit is that regardless of gear limitations BLU can push higher cure amounts in a shorter period of time then Red Mage can. Cure IV might be able to cure 44 more points then some Blue Mage spell you are comparing it too, but that's just a pointless number in a vacuum away from actually doing healing work.

If I wanted to go after a pointless technicality that is so meaningless by the way, I could have and I'd still be right. A Blue Mage can sub Scholar, get 370 skill by popping Light Arts and push (with the same stats I mentioned earlier) a Magic Fruit for 650 HP, a win over the superiority stat boosted Red Mage's 618 Cure IV in the example. For the example I figured that I'd consider having another cure on a timer would be more valuable then having some meaningless number on a cure that was already more MP efficient, which is why I didn't bring this up.

I hope this brings some enlightenment. Blue Mage is the #2 healer currently. I don't want people to have misconceptions about this.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

After looking into various possibilities such a MND and healing magic skill itself, we decided to go with adjustments to healing magic skill after considering the benefits this would give to jobs that possess this skill. MND affects cure potency more than in the past and the effect will remain as it is.

And I think this was the best way to do this, that way it only really benefits jobs with Skill, while others can raise it via Light Arts they then don't get Cure IV.

I'm fine with the rest of the post too.

[saevel]

Then your statement's point was nonsensical, has nothing to do with actual healing, and is just about making an unimportant number larger. Might as well be talking a White Mage into spamming Cure VI because it cures more.

It doesn't matter an ounce if you can heal 44 more HP on a spell because you have 20% more cure potency gear when the guy also has two more spells on separate recast timers (not to mention that one heals for over one hundred HP more so that throws out the flawed big numbers argument). It doesn't matter if you have 20% more cure potency if half his spells are more MP efficient even after that extra potency is taken into account.

Being technically right about a useless number is pointless if the spirit of the argument is lost. In this case the spirit is that regardless of gear limitations BLU can push higher cure amounts in a shorter period of time then Red Mage can. Cure IV might be able to cure 44 more points then some Blue Mage spell you are comparing it too, but that's just a pointless number in a vacuum away from actually doing healing work.

If I wanted to go after a pointless technicality that is so meaningless by the way, I could have and I'd still be right. A Blue Mage can sub Scholar, get 370 skill by popping Light Arts and push (with the same stats I mentioned earlier) a Magic Fruit for 650 HP, a win over the superiority stat boosted Red Mage's 618 Cure IV in the example. For the example I figured that I'd consider having another cure on a timer would be more valuable then having some meaningless number on a cure that was already more MP efficient, which is why I didn't bring this up.

I hope this brings some enlightenment. Blue Mage is the #2 healer currently. I don't want people to have misconceptions about this.

It's ok, his entire argument is just a personal attack on me. Namely that I used a quick and dirty cure set as an example and not the best available. It was done to demonstrate the scaling of Cure IV vs Magic Fruit (your really should only use Embrace if you need a 2nd powerful cure and fruits timer isn't up). You used a weak 90 MND, as Fruit is just Cure V, if you keep stacking that value higher the cure power shoots up. 550~600 fruits are not unheard of, for 72MP.

What makes BLU the second best healer in the game isn't a single high spell, but being able to cast not one, but three powerful cure spells back to back while also possessing Erasega, something not even WHM gets frequent access to. A BLU/WHM can go Embrace -> Fruit -> Cure IV on a single target or three separate targets. They can also easily remove slowga / bindga / graviga, something that frustrates all WHM's due to Erase's annoying recast timer. They have potent aoe stoneskin that doesn't require Accession to use, along with a 400~600 aoe Cure (White Wind). Inside Abyssea I hit 980~1K+ on W.Wind.

As I've said in the past, its the dirty little secret that BLU's everywhere try to hide. They don't want to be labeled a healing job even though their the second best at it. They don't want to be forced to go /WHM and be responsible for curing people and removing status ailments. That happened to RDM and BLU's have absolutely no desire to see it happen to them. They don't want to cast Haste x 3~4 along with spreading Fruits and Embraces around the party. To be yelled at if they so much as try to melee the monster, to have the WAR's and MNK's tell them to get in the back and cure cause their not a melee. Right now they are in danger of that happening, if anyone where to ever figure out that a BLU/WHM can ~now~ do everything a RDM/WHM could at 75 (role wise) and better. Don't have enough WHM's to cover your melee party, stick a BLU/WHM in it, they can do the job "good enough".

Now for all the hate mail and death threats to begin.

[Neisan_Quetz]

There's a reason that hasn't happened. I'll let you figure out why.

[Nightfyre]

I hope this brings some enlightenment. Blue Mage is the #2 healer currently. I don't want people to have misconceptions about this.
I even stated previously that it's currently the second best healer. There is no argument relevant to what you're posting.

As for Saevel, arguments that conveniently pick and choose evidence should be noted as doing so. If you have a problem with it, support your arguments more carefully in the future. Fewer fallacies in favor of actual evidence would help too. The fact of the matter is that BLU is not getting balanced by this update, it's being left in the dust. Nowhere have I asked for Magic Fruit to even stay competitive with Cure 4 post-update, I just want it to be given a small boost to accomodate our increased HP.

[Mageoholic]

It's ok, his entire argument is just a personal attack on me.

I don't think you are as popular as you think you are.

As for BLU healing, when their nuking damage balances out around SCH and RDM, then they can heal as effectively as a SCH or RDM until then, suck it up buttercup.

[saevel]

I even stated previously that it's currently the second best healer. There is no argument relevant to what you're posting.

As for Saevel, arguments that conveniently pick and choose evidence should be noted as doing so. If you have a problem with it, support your arguments more carefully in the future. Fewer fallacies in favor of actual evidence would help too. The fact of the matter is that BLU is not getting balanced by this update, it's being left in the dust. Nowhere have I asked for Magic Fruit to even stay competitive with Cure 4 post-update, I just want it to be given a small boost to accomodate our increased HP.

Umm what ... the entire first half of your paragraph is just BS. I didn't pick and choose a damn thing and you know it.

And yes you did ask for Fruit to be "updated" to compete with Cure V. Asking for BLU heals to use native Blue magic skill would immediately have the effect of capping their cure power at the soft cap of Cure V. That cap is far beyond the cap of Cure IV.

Right ~now~ Fruit and better then Cure IV, not to mention embrace.

Now for some fun, since everyone likes to just "hit cure potency cap" without thinking about the gear involved, lets get real.

RDM
Weapon: Galenus, Cure Pot +10% (can be off handed as /DNC or /NIN)
Body: Nefer Kalasiris (Cure +10%). This is a multi-million gil item from the AH, the full version is from Akvan and I'm something like 0/100 on it. I know someone who went 1/196. Assuming +15% is complete BS.
Hands / Feet: Serpentes: Cure Pot +5%
Legs: Praeco Slacks Cure Pot +4%
Back: Oretanio's Cape: Cure Pot +4%

Total: Cure +33%
If you really going the distance you can toss in the additional +14% from Magian Staff (+47).

Blu:
Weapon: Galenus +10%
Hands / Feet: Serpentes Cure +5%
Legs: Praeco Slacks Cure Pot +4%
Back: Oretanio's Cape: Cure Pot +4%

Total: Cure +23%. If anyone insists on forcing the RDM to use a staff then the BLU must sword+shield with an augmented genbus Cure Pot +5% for 28% total.

@33% RDM Cure IV is 530 HP, @47 its 586, Capping Healing skill @368 gives
@33% Cure IV is 537, @47 its 593. We've hit the soft cap long long time ago.

@23% BLU Fruit is 590, @28 it's 614. I used 120MND and 90VIT for this @150 healing skill. The BLU is just touching the soft cap. Additional MND can still be used. Embrace scales the same as fruit but has 110 higher base cure power, this gives it ~130 high cured value.

Without having to get anything difficult the BLU shoots past the RDM in cure power even though it's got less cure potency. Fruit / Embrace are Cure V and scale as Cure V would. Thus with only 150 skill, 120 MND and minimal cure potency (23%) a BLU/WHM can out cure a RDM ~and~ still use their damage spells, Almace and CDC. Take away the /WHM and you get 550 fruits @23% cure pot which is ridiculous when you consider the BLU is now /WAR or /DNC with all the power that entails.

So please tell me how BLU isn't curb stomping RDM in the party support / main healing department.

[Aleste]

RDM
Weapon: Galenus, Cure Pot +10% (can be off handed as /DNC or /NIN)
Body: Nefer Kalasiris (Cure +10%). This is a multi-million gil item from the AH, the full version is from Akvan and I'm something like 0/100 on it. I know someone who went 1/196. Assuming +15% is complete BS.
Hands / Feet: Serpentes: Cure Pot +5%
Legs: Praeco Slacks Cure Pot +4%
Back: Oretanio's Cape: Cure Pot +4%

Total: Cure +33%
If you really going the distance you can toss in the additional +14% from Magian Staff (+47).


I've no intention of getting into this argument, however I'd like to point out that RDM can also wear fylgia torque+1 (3%) roundel (5%) and augmented zenith pumps (4%)... tefnut too.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I've no intention of getting into this argument, however I'd like to point out that RDM can also wear fylgia torque+1 (3%) roundel (5%) and augmented zenith pumps (4%)... tefnut too.

Isn't the point that BLU gets more HP for less "Cure" potency+ gear?

That said, I couldn't care less they already said no to BLU that should be the end of it.

[saevel]

I've no intention of getting into this argument, however I'd like to point out that RDM can also wear fylgia torque+1 (3%) roundel (5%) and augmented zenith pumps (4%)... tefnut too.

I know we can, we can also wear Akvan's body. Seeing as roundel is ridiculously expensive along with fylgia +1, and those augmented zenith pumps are only +3%. The RDM in this example was already at 47% with the BLU at 28%, the BLU was winning.

Here I'll state it again, just for clarity.

Without having to get anything difficult the BLU shoots past the RDM in cure power even though it's got less cure potency.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Why the fuck are we comparing 33% cure potency? In before gil is hard to make.

[Mageoholic]

Let the kids fight it out. Since it is irrelevant anyway. You bring one job to heal, that is WHM. Sure other jobs can help, but you bring one job to heal. SCH RDM DNC BLU and BRD SMN COR can all help heal (latter 3 SJ dependant for the most part). PUP SMN BST all have pets who can heal, and a PLD can help heal. What do all of these jobs have in common....They are invited to provide shit on top of helping heal

A WHM is THE healer, always has been, always will be. (in before meaningless ToAU merit parties arguments.)

So the kids are arguing over nothing other than my healing dick pisses further than yours.

[Greatguardian]

Why are we beating this horse again?


Don't look at me. I jumped in because he was using terrible, shitty math to prove a point and I corrected it. If he wants to make some point completely unrelated to WHM, that's fine, but he doesn't get a free pass if he tries to bullshit his way through it.

My point stands, however, with regards to RDM. RDM can cap Cure Potency now, so you'd still have to compare the non-Solaceskin numbers to BLU, with the exception of Cure V.

This becomes:
Pimped BLU using all augmented gear for 32% Cure Pot:

Wild Carrot: 253/37 R = 6.84
M Fruit: 678/72 R = 9.41
P Embrace: 801/106 = 7.55

Normal BLU using 24% Cure Pot:

Wild Carrot: 238/37 R = 6.43
M Fruit: 637/72 R = 8.84
P Embrace: 753/106 = 7.10

RDM with 50% Cure Pot:

Cure2: 147 HP / 22 MP Ratio = 6.68
Cure3: 307 HP / 42 MP Ratio = 7.31
Cure4: 622 HP / 80 MP Ratio = 7.77

BLU is pretty easily more potent than RDM, but it loses out on a ton of versatility if it's spec'd for healing alone.

Edit: This is also ignoring the fact that Embrace has twice the recast of normal cures.

[Economizer]

Why are we beating this horse again?

Probably because someone said that this wasn't true (which I found more issue with then saevel's incredibly silly less then 50% cure potency on Red Mage thing):


BLU is pretty easily more potent than RDM

Silly and minor point, but with Plenilune Embrace, I could be mistaken but I was under the impression that the recast on that spell is 10 seconds, just like Cure V (and that's not much more then Cure IV). If my information is wrong, please tell me.

Honestly, I'm happy this conversation will be incredibly moot very soon when Healing Magic starts to kick in after years of suck, although that has more to do with Healing Magic kicking in.

[Greatguardian]

Nah, Cure V has 10s recast. 1-4 all have 5s though, those are what was referred to.

Blu can hit higher cures than RDM on a per-cast basis and can get better mp efficiency than RDM, but RDM healing is kinda shit so I don't know what the point was.

Saevel tried the same "RDM with 18% Cure potency" crap on the RDM forums where that post was from, too. He was called on it then, no idea why he thought he could just slip that fallacy by again now.

[Economizer]

Nah, Cure V has 10s recast. 1-4 all have 5s though, those are what was referred to.

Cure IV has a 8 second recast time (I checked to make sure just in case, I had to remove gear several times just because of all the Haste/Fast Cast gear I wear on my idle set) as reported on FFXIclopedia. Cure III has a 6s recast, Cure I/II have 5s recast.

[Greatguardian]

Cure IV has a 8 second recast time (I checked to make sure just in case, I had to remove gear several times just because of all the Haste/Fast Cast gear I wear on my idle set) as reported on FFXIclopedia. Cure III has a 6s recast, Cure I/II have 5s recast.

Derp's on me then :(. I can hardly tell the difference in that range, aside from V/VI. Good to know~

[saevel]

Probably because someone said that this wasn't true (which I found more issue with then saevel's incredibly silly less then 50% cure potency on Red Mage thing):



Silly and minor point, but with Plenilune Embrace, I could be mistaken but I was under the impression that the recast on that spell is 10 seconds, just like Cure V (and that's not much more then Cure IV). If my information is wrong, please tell me.

Honestly, I'm happy this conversation will be incredibly moot very soon when Healing Magic starts to kick in after years of suck, although that has more to do with Healing Magic kicking in.

Embrace is 10s, Fruit is 6s

I said less then 50% because 95%+ of the WHM, RDM and SCH's I've seen have less then 50% cure potency. I actually check these things. And when we're talking about such a large number, suddenly assuming 50% ~ALL THE TIME~ becomes very silly indeed. We start getting into the area of assuming everyone has a 95 Emp and the absolute best gear for comparisons, which is limited to the upper 1~5% of the games population.

Never base arguments on such an incredibly small minority. Even at 50% cure potency, the BLU @28% still wins on ~both~ their cure spells.

[Neisan_Quetz]

FFS no one gives a crap that 95% of the Whm Rdms and Schs you know are gimp as all hell. -Especially- Whms since they can cap in ~4 pieces, so uh, yea, 95% of the Whms you know are just plain terrible.

If you're complaining about Rdms/Whms/Schs without cure potency I bet I could find just as many blu who don't have cure potency (or even gear swaps) so your argument is nil.

[SpankWustler]

I said less then 50% because 95%+ of the WHM, RDM and SCH's I've seen have less then 50% cure potency. I actually check these things. And when we're talking about such a large number, suddenly assuming 50% ~ALL THE TIME~ becomes very silly indeed. We start getting into the area of assuming everyone has a 95 Emp and the absolute best gear for comparisons, which is limited to the upper 1~5% of the games population.

Tons and tons people who bake don't even use separate measuring cups for wet and dry ingredients. Yet, many recipes still forgo volume entirely and list ingredients by weight. This is because most people are horrible at baking or lack the proper tools and, as a result, produce mediocre food.

All the mediocre or under-supplied cupcake-makers the world over don't change the most accurate way to measure flour. The dumbest common denominator should never be used to determine a method of measurement for healing magic, either.

Making a level 99 Surya's Staff is in no way a comparable task to collecting 1500 Heavy Metal plates.