Treasure Hunter Effect Amongst Jobs

[Camate]

As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Here is the premise regarding the hierarchy of the Treasure Hunter effect (from strongest to weakest).

1. Thief
2. Ranger
3. Support job thief
4. Other jobs
※As ranger received the new “Bounty Shot” as a support ability, it is now slightly more beneficial than a support job Treasure Hunter when effectively used.

However, with the increase in the level cap from 75 to 99, this ordering has started to become ambiguous, so in order to clearly define the premise again, our current aim was to find adjustments appropriate to follow this.

The prime example of changes to this hierarchy were with the increase in the Treasure Hunter effect for familiar pets due to the level cap increase and we would like to start by adjusting this area.

The development team looked into routes to adjust this, such as changing the pet’s job, lowering the stats of the pets in exchange for not lowering the Treasure Hunter effect, revamping the pet’s special abilities, etc., but ultimately they made the decision to preserve their fighting capabilities and only reduce their Treasure Hunter effect. To go along with this adjustment, we will be easing up on the materials required to synthesize “Lucky Broth” which created with the basis of the Treasure Hunter effect in mind.
※The current focus of this adjustment is for familiar pets, but in the future if automatons and avatars are given Treasure Hunter, we will be adopting the same policy.


To give a bit more insight, the development team looked into a completely different direction on this at first, exploring if they could establish proper balance to follow this idea by changing the drop rate table. However, if they were to change the drop rates, the obtainment rate for every single item would change and the effects would be too drastic, so they came to the conclusion that they would not be adjusting the drop rates.

[Quetzacoatl]

incoming bst s#%*storm

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Rubbish is as rubbish does.

Guarantee's three things.

1. Goodbye FFXI
2. Never going to join FFXIV
3. SE needs to stick to making 1 player offline games and NEVER make another MMO.

Also this is just Absorb TP and Saboteur again, real translation.

"We can't think what to add so instead we'll weaken something to make it the same strength with
gear, kupo!"


EDIT:
When does BLU get the nerf hammer, that jobs been OP for so long now.

[Detoxy]

Rubbish is as rubbish does.

Guarantee's three things.

1. Goodbye FFXI
2. Never going to join FFXIV
3. SE needs to stick to making 1 player offline games and NEVER make another MMO.

Also this is just Absorb TP and Saboteur again, real translation.

"We can't think what to add so instead we'll weaken something to make it the same strength with gear, kupo!"

WE WILL SEE U IN A FEW MONTHS L8RZ!!!

[Camiie]

An issue was discovered in which the Beastmaster job was inadvertently made effective. This issue will be addressed in a future content update.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

An issue was discovered in which the Beastmaster job was inadvertently made effective. This issue will be addressed in a future content update.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

If you didn't know better you'd think that was from the devs themselves.

[Phafi]

about time.

[Rezeak]

149 coins left for me to farm so whew got in before nerf

I Kinda thought this was gonna be nerfed shame really cause it's useful for killing stuff like nms outside dyna.

Either way i'm sure you'll still farm coins faster than the pre-ruinator days ^^

If ya rage quitting cause of this just rememebr 500k-1mil a glass and 10-17 slaves was need to do what bst could do solo.

yes it'a a nerf BUT red = 100% 1 coin drop which means it's only gonna reduce the other 4-5 coin drops by like 10-20 % so it's not that big of a deal.

[Ica]

about time.

I know right? BSTs have been dominating dynamis and other popular content with their TH pets for years.

[Calamity]

I don't see why you'd decide that preserving fighting strength in exchange for TH. I doubt there's a bst alive that wouldn't rather have the pets themselves nerfed in exchange. We pay good money for these pets. These are in fact the two most expensive pets out there, shouldn't we get something out of that in exchange?

[Sargent]

Best. Announcement. Ever.

Why should BST be able to roll in more coins from Dyna then a THF main? This doesn't break BST in Dyna at all, but it will put a dent in your profits.

tl;dr: want drops? Bring a THF.

[Zaknafein]

This is an incredibly bad move. Bst is absolutely worthless in Voidwatch. Chances are it will be extremely undesirable in Legion. That leaves us primarily with two "semi relevant" events to shine in. Abyssea, and Dynamis. Do you think we shine in those two events because when people build parties for them they shout in port jeuno "5/6 Beast Master Can I have it?"

NO. We shine in those two areas because we are solo'ing/duo'ing. Or sometimes a small group of friends are doing something, and a Beast Master can fulfill a twofer by being a backup tank/DD with a little TH mixed in.

With this announcement you want to shit all over small groups, and solo play in events that are boring as hell to begin with. Where if people still need things from old events Bst offers a way to obtain those items without begging for help. To help new players obtain gear, or to catch up returning players to the game who need gear yet can;t find anyone to help, because everyone has what they need from these two events already.

Honestly wasn't Farsha enough of a kick in the balls to Beastmasters? Why don't the Developers spend their time making the WS not be the most pathetic empy WS these is outside of abyssea. Or make special pets only callable when you have relic/mythic/empy equipped? Unless this "TH gear" allows us to retain the same level of TH we've had with Yuly this decision is a complete slap in the face. How out of touch can the development team be with a game THEY are creating... Jesus.

[Coldbrand]

And because the Japanese like this pointless nerf, there's zero chance we can resist it. Thanks for stripping of us of our ability to pursue relics independently, I'm glad I put so much effort into gearing BST for this purpose, as if the Abyssea nerfs weren't enough.

Now it's back to kissing ass and bowing to disability check collecting, Rascal riding, diabetes having pyramid scheme-type LS mafioso wannabes if we EVER want to lay hands on a relic. Thanks guys. I hate you and your balance.

[Urteil]

Why can't they just do away with Treasure Hunter entirely?

Give THF some traits and JA's that make it more than a job thats primary function in PvE is to smack something a few times and gtfo.

Start giving THF crit damage +% crit chance +% and shit like tactical evasion and special bolts like mdef down, meva down, and upgraded versions of the Bloody/Acid/Blind exclusive to Thief only.

Treasure hunter is a retarded idea that only holds the job that has it as its "primary" focus back, if you're going to give it to everyone, /take it away, or GIVE IT TO AVATARS AND AUTOMATONS.

Just do everyone a favor, delete it and give Thief things worth while.


Treasure hunter is the thing that has single handedly sent thief into oblivion. Yet the dev team still says stupid things like "Mug and Steal" having lower recast times etc is overpowered, there's NOTHING TO STEAL, THERE'S NOTHING TO MUG, TH DOESN'T MATTER IN VOID WATCH, IT DOESN'T MATTER IN NEARLY 80% OF THE GAME.

Just do the smart thing and give THF a combo point system like you gave to DNC and call the abilities different things, jesus christ I feel sorry for you guys.

[Ica]

Best. Announcement. Ever.

Why should BST be able to roll in more coins from Dyna then a THF main? This doesn't break BST in Dyna at all, but it will put a dent in your profits.

tl;dr: want drops? Bring a THF.

I'll be sure to bring a THF next time I solo dynamis, thanks for the suggestion.

[Calamity]

Best. Announcement. Ever.

Why should BST be able to roll in more coins from Dyna then a THF main? This doesn't break BST in Dyna at all, but it will put a dent in your profits.

tl;dr: want drops? Bring a THF.

Don't get the wrong idea, even without TH bst will still pull more coins than a thf. We've still got the kill speed advantage. I think the main difference is you're going to be seeing a lot more falcor out there to compensate

[Vold]

Eh. Can we at least get a TH boost for Falcorr over Yuly? Just seemed weird to me for them to have the same TH effect.

[Zaknafein]

And because the Japanese like this pointless nerf, there's zero chance we can resist it. Thanks for stripping of us of our ability to pursue relics independently, I'm glad I put so much effort into gearing BST for this purpose, as if the Abyssea nerfs weren't enough.

Now it's back to kissing ass and bowing to disability check collecting, Rascal riding, diabetes having pyramid scheme-type LS mafioso wannabes if we EVER want to lay hands on a relic. Thanks guys. I hate you and your balance.

Yeah no shit. They need to get the Beastmasters out of Dynamis so they don't interfere with newly formed groups going to farm assinine trials to upgrade peoples relics to 99. Not only do they feel the need to tell you "Hey we decided you need an alliance to get that last upgrade for the relic you solo'd/duo'd... or wait on 2nd thought from now on we don't want people solo'ing/duo'ing their way through boring as hell content at all. KthnkxBaI." Need to insure that bullshit timesink is running smoothly.

[Calamity]

Eh. Can we at least get a TH boost for Falcorr over Yuly? Just seemed weird to me for them to have the same TH effect.

Idk, if anything seems like Yuly should be left with the higher TH. I mean they kinda have a point on Falcor. He is really strong. But Yuly? Poor weak take years to kill anything Yuly? No, I do not agree

[Helel]

I'll be sure to bring a THF next time I solo dynamis, thanks for the suggestion.

Because soloing on THF/DNC is hard.

[Xilk]

Yeah, there are alot of words to try to explain this.. but it doesn't make sense.
The
1 thf
2, rng
3 /th
4 other

However, with the increase in the level cap from 75 to 99, this ordering has started to become ambiguous, so in order to clearly define the premise again, ...


That list didn't exist at 75...
At level 75 there was TH2 on thf and a bit of treasure hunter + gear. There was no bounty shot. There was not treasure hunter outside thf or /thf.

How can we "restore" balance and order to something that didn't exist?
Why should it be this way? that really doesn't add up. Why should RNG be better than /thf?
Why is it not okay for bst to have access to better treasure hunter than than /thf?

Balance? well jugs don't make themselves. There is a cost to it. The balance is already built into the price of the jugs. You pay PREMIUM for Yuly & Falcorr

[Vivik]

Because soloing on THF/DNC is hard.

Because you can bring a thf when you're solo bst? Reading comprehension much?

[Ica]

Because soloing on THF/DNC is hard.

Who said it was hard?

[Karbuncle]

Because you can bring a thf when you're solo bst? Reading comprehension much?

I think you're the one who needs reading comprehension lessons. He's not saying Bring a THF when you solo on BST, He's saying "Job Change > THF/DNC".

My opinion on this matter is somewhere, I'm just pointing out you appear to be misunderstanding his sentence. Not that i agree with it.

[Kieron]

When does BLU get the nerf hammer, that jobs been OP for so long now.

Blu is the last job that needs a nerf. Try SAM and their best friend Tachi: Shoha.

OP: Hey SE, when you give a kid a toy he/she likes and then you take it away, what happens? They cry and are obviously dissatisfied.

Here's a solution: Think before you implement abilities you deem "unbalanced." Think about the short-term and the long-term, evalute it, and then correct it based on those ideas. Throwing well-received abilities in the game then taking them away causes backlash. That should be a given.

[Vivik]

I think you're the one who needs reading comprehension lessons. He's not saying Bring a THF when you solo on BST, He's saying "Job Change > THF/DNC".

My opinion on this matter is somewhere, I'm just pointing out you appear to be misunderstanding his sentence. Not that i agree with it.


I'll be sure to bring a THF next time I solo dynamis, thanks for the suggestion.

No I'm pretty sure it's just the both of you. I have the luxury of sitting next to the person he is quoting.

[Karbuncle]

No I'm pretty sure it's just the both of you. I have the luxury of sitting next to the person he is quoting.

Nope -

He's saying:


Because soloing on THF/DNC is hard.

This comes after a person claiming to "bring a Thief when they solo" (Sarcastically).

His intent and reply was in retaliation to that direct sarcasm, in more words, to say "because soloing THF/DNC is hard", Which is to imply that "If you're not bringing a THF, And still want TH, Instead of going BST, Switch to THF, and solo on that job, instead of soloing on Beastmaster".

I've read it Just fine, and so has he. His point is quite clear and its context visible. His implication now spelled out.

Again, This does not mean i agree, Only pointing out the above

[Ica]

The point was is the person I initially responded to said to bring a THF. Well, if you're a solo BST, you can't bring anyone. What if someone doesn't have THF/DNC leveled?

[Vivik]

Nope -

He's saying:



This comes after a person claiming "I'll bring a THF when i solo on BST, yah" Or something to that extent, Sarcastically, His intent was to say "because soloing THF/DNC is hard", Which is to imply that "If you're not bringing a THF, And still want TH, Instead of going BST, Switch to THF, and solo on that job".

I've read it Just fine, and so has he. His point is quite clear and its context visible.

Again, This does not mean i agree.

Again, you're wrong. Read the original post that Ica quoted. I understand perfectly that he's saying thf is not hard but he is completly missing the point of the "soloing" as a bst part. Nobody was even talking about soloing on thf.

[Karbuncle]

The point was is the person I initially responded to said to bring a THF. Well, if you're a solo BST, you can't bring anyone. What if someone doesn't have THF/DNC leveled?

Thats an Entirely separate issue! If you don't have THF/DNC leveled, TH1 is still > TH0, So BST is viable, You'll just get slightly less drops.

Frankly TH2 Is where the best increase comes in, TH3+ is little notice. I hate Nerfs for sure, But it could be worse ^^


Again, you're wrong. Read the original post that Ica quoted. I understand perfectly that he's saying thf is not hard but he is completly missing the point of the "soloing" as a bst part. Nobody was even talking about soloing on thf.

Yes. I'm aware.

His response too "I'm soloing on BST" was "Change to THF/DNC Then". He was implying "Yeah, I Acknowledge you can't Duo while Soloing as its an Oxymoron, Theres an Alternative, Its switching jobs".

Perhaps you do not understand the thought pattern, as such, The leap from "Soloing on BST/DNC, Bring a THF Friend", and "I can't bring a THF when i solo", to "Then go THF instead of BST", Was perhaps a leap too far, or the concept is becoming too complex at this point.

I Apologize if this misunderstanding is causing you any undue frustration as it would appear.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Blu is the last job that needs a nerf. Try SAM and their best friend Tachi: Shoha.

OP: Hey SE, when you give a kid a toy he/she likes and then you take it away, what happens? They cry and are obviously dissatisfied.

Here's a solution: Think before you implement abilities you deem "unbalanced." Think about the short-term and the long-term, evalute it, and then correct it based on those ideas. Throwing well-received abilities in the game then taking them away causes backlash. That should be a given.

I was being more realistic. SAM is SE's fave that'll never be gimped with you know who back in charge.

[Zaknafein]

Yeah, there are alot of words to try to explain this.. but it doesn't make sense.
The
1 thf
2, rng
3 /th
4 other



That list didn't exist at 75...
At level 75 there was TH2 on thf and a bit of treasure hunter + gear. There was no bounty shot. There was not treasure hunter outside thf or /thf.

How can we "restore" balance and order to something that didn't exist?
Why should it be this way? that really doesn't add up. Why should RNG be better than /thf?
Why is it not okay for bst to have access to better treasure hunter than than /thf?

Balance? well jugs don't make themselves. There is a cost to it. The balance is already built into the price of the jugs. You pay PREMIUM for Yuly & Falcorr

Ranger also has a place in VW, and will in Legion. While it might not be as highly sought after for top tier DD spots it still most definitely has a ticket to the show.

While Bst is excluded as per usual. Hey SE why don't you institute some actual balance for a change, and make Bst desirable in your lolEndgame plans.

[Nightfyre]

When does BLU get the nerf hammer, that jobs been OP for so long now.
Oh hush, BLU has only properly come in to its own very recently. It's by no means overpowered and certainly hasn't been for "so long".

This is pretty much guaranteed to change nothing unless SE goes out of their way to make BST TH gear ridiculously difficult to obtain, and even I'm not inclined to think them so malevolent. Perle BSTs gotta rock dat Perle though.

[Elleanore]

THing shud be left to THFs, not really a nerf in my eyes, just alittle less coin i guess.

[Alhanelem]

Rubbish is as rubbish does.

Guarantee's three things.

1. Goodbye FFXI
2. Never going to join FFXIV
3. SE needs to stick to making 1 player offline games and NEVER make another MMO.

Also this is just Absorb TP and Saboteur again, real translation.

"We can't think what to add so instead we'll weaken something to make it the same strength with
gear, kupo!"


EDIT:
When does BLU get the nerf hammer, that jobs been OP for so long now.
Because weakening treasure hunter for two pets out of the many available pets BST can use totally ruins the job and makes it more unplayable now than it was before.

/sarcasm.

[Calamity]

thf solos so damn slow though. I really doubt the TH will put thf on top when I can proc/kill 25-50% more mobs in the same amount of time

[Karbuncle]

thf solos so damn slow though. I really doubt the TH will put thf on top when I can proc/kill 25-50% more mobs in the same amount of time

Duo really help with THF.

I have no problems on THF, Today in Dynamis-Tavnazia(Fixed) as THF + WHM i net myself 300 Currency and about 15 Forgotten Items. Then again, I have Mandau and You'll never see Pink on me.

THF is slightly more demanding than BST, BST Was basically idiot proof to where a gimp could do it. THF you may actually have to gear your job above Aurore... :X (not you specifically btw, a generalization)

[Draylo]

Rubbish is as rubbish does.

Guarantee's three things.

1. Goodbye FFXI
2. Never going to join FFXIV
3. SE needs to stick to making 1 player offline games and NEVER make another MMO.

Also this is just Absorb TP and Saboteur again, real translation.

"We can't think what to add so instead we'll weaken something to make it the same strength with
gear, kupo!"


EDIT:
When does BLU get the nerf hammer, that jobs been OP for so long now.

lol please let the door hit you on the way out. BLU doesn't need a nerf, thanks.

[Vandheer]

As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

As much as I disapprove of reducing Treasure Hunter on Beastmaster I am curious about the "Pet: Treasure Hunter" gear. At least make the gear reasonable to obtain for Beastmasters and other pet jobs alike. That leads me to my question will these "Pet: Treasure Hunter +" be Beastmaster exclusive or will jobs like SMN, PUP, and DRG be able to reap the benefits as-well? Either case it could be interesting given their is enough pieces of it and it is reasonable to obtain...


Here is the premise regarding the hierarchy of the Treasure Hunter effect (from strongest to weakest).
1. Thief
2. Ranger
3. Support job thief
4. Other jobs

As for the proposed Treasure Hunter hierarchy why should subbing Thief get you you more Treasure Hunter then having a Thief pet as a Beastmaster? Beastmasters are using their call beast pet slot to call the specific pet with Treasure Hunter as opposed to using a pet that is a better tank. Leaving Beastmasters with treasure hunter isn't game breaking because they aren't going to solo huge mobs with it. Instead it gives Beastmasters a few events they can simply be better at as every job should have its own niche.


※As ranger received the new “Bounty Shot” as a support ability, it is now slightly more beneficial than a support job Treasure Hunter when effectively used.

Aside from disagreeing about the Beastmaster changes I like the idea of adjusting Ranger's bounty shot (or maybe just giving them treasure hunter...) to give people more incentive to bring a ranger with them when a thief isn't around.

The point I'm tying to get at i suppose is, lets not screw around with a job that will most likely not be sought after in new content as it is. Instead you could spend your time making it more desirable? If there's no stopping this Beastmaster nerf lets at least get the "Pet: Treasure Hunter" Gear right Camate. D:

[Calamity]

Duo really help with THF.

I have no problems on THF, Today in Dynamis-Tavnazia(Fixed) as THF + WHM i net myself 300 Currency and about 15 Forgotten Items. Then again, I have Mandau and You'll never see Pink on me.

THF is slightly more demanding than BST, BST Was basically idiot proof to where a gimp could do it. THF you may actually have to gear your job above Aurore... :X (not you specifically btw, a generalization)

Maybe, but there's still a world of difference between a bandwagon bst and someone who actually cares about the job. Most of the people who jumped on bst after learning how effective it was in dyna still kill much slower than the few "real" bsts I see running around.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

lol please let the door hit you on the way out. BLU doesn't need a nerf, thanks.

You would say that.

The word is biased, happens all the time. Especially from people who use third-party tools.

[Babygyrl]

i love this, i never understood why BSt got TH in the firstp lace, that should really be thief only ( i dont get why ranger has it either)

[Xilk]

Oh hush, BLU has only properly come in to its own very recently. It's by no means overpowered and certainly hasn't been for "so long".

This is pretty much guaranteed to change nothing unless SE goes out of their way to make BST TH gear ridiculously difficult to obtain, and even I'm not inclined to think them so malevolent. Perle BSTs gotta rock dat Perle though.

BST pet treasure hunter gear will all come from top tier new Voidwatch of course!

[Xilk]

i love this, i never understood why BSt got TH in the firstp lace, that should really be thief only ( i dont get why ranger has it either)

because thf's were whining that they only got to go places for TH.

[Zhronne]

An issue was discovered in which the Beastmaster job was inadvertently made effective. This issue will be addressed in a future content update.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
This sounds so real... Sigh.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

BST pet treasure hunter gear will all come from top tier new Voidwatch of course!

Of course, and by Pet: it will be SMN PUP BST DRG most likely.

That or they'd do it their weird way of including jobs that don't even get pets like RDM.

[Ica]

i love this, i never understood why BSt got TH in the firstp lace, that should really be thief only ( i dont get why ranger has it either)

If it should be THF only, then yes, take it away from RNG. Why should RNG get TH2 when a BSTs THF pet gets TH1 only?

[Elleanore]

Pet with TH1 to start with, then comes gear, even if from high tier VW, that's where best gear comes from anyway. As for now anyone can burn BST to 99, buy perle and jugs and make 200 coin/run. That nerf only sounds reasonable to me. :p

[Nightfyre]

BST pet treasure hunter gear will all come from top tier new Voidwatch of course!
I'll laugh even as I eat crow if that happens.


You would say that.

The word is biased, happens all the time.
Appeal to motive while simultaneously trying to present oneself as an unbiased party. That's quite the trick, but it doesn't make for a sound argument.


Especially from people who use third-party tools.
Ironically, third-party tool users are probably in a better position to argue that BLU is overpowered given that the shifting nature of BLU is not efficiently compatible with FFXI's limited macro palette. You can definitely make it work with a little effort though.

Is it a strong job? Yes. Its capabilities as a frontline DD and support unit have finally reached a point where it's a good (but not overwhelming) DD that can also provide a degree of support to the more powerful offensive units around it and also has some debuffing capabilities, though the most powerful ones (hello stun) have their limitations (95% hitrate cap, forced choice between roles when examining weapon selection). Overpowered? No. I'll call it overpowered when you consistently see more than one in an alliance as opposed to the steady wave of MNK/WAR/SAM.

Word can be biased, but math less so and the game's mechanics are not so convulted as to disallow ready scrutiny of one's calculations. Any bias would thus be readily exposed.

[Xilk]

Pet with TH1 to start with, then comes gear, even if from high tier VW, that's where best gear comes from anyway. As for now anyone can burn BST to 99, buy perle and jugs and make 200 coin/run. That nerf only sounds reasonable to me. :p

wow. I never did understand the player hate directed at jobs.

If I don't like a job, I won't play it. If someone else likes it... good for them!

When I heard about Astral Burns, I thought it was cool and itnteresting. it made me want to understand the game mechanics more.
When I saw how 2-handers use /sam to pile on the tp and self-skillchains, i thought it was impressive
When I saw BLM''s AoE and mass nuke down legions of Mobs in Abyssea I thought it was sweet!

I didn't think, "they shouldn't have that!" I didn't think rdm/nin should be nerfed forhow it solo's NM's.

bst seems to really offend some players, and I just can't understand it. I started playing as a mnk. i tried out all the jobs. I like bst most and have mostly played bst ever since. Its fun.

[Sargent]

I shoulda clarified, "bring a THF or /THF"

Why should BST have the same level of TH as a THF? You still have your ridiculous amount of pet melee damage, as well as your own damage, so you still have a faster killspeed then THF/DNC. And since it's not an all out "remove TH", you still get some coins

And yes, subbing THF will mean you lose out on DNC procs and dual wield. The idea is you pick one.

[deces]

Best. Announcement. Ever.

Why should BST be able to roll in more coins from Dyna then a THF main? This doesn't break BST in Dyna at all, but it will put a dent in your profits.

tl;dr: want drops? Bring a THF.

Because of of SE stupid proc system

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I shoulda clarified, "bring a THF or /THF"

Why should BST have the same level of TH as a THF? You still have your ridiculous amount of pet melee damage, as well as your own damage, so you still have a faster killspeed then THF/DNC. And since it's not an all out "remove TH", you still get some coins

And yes, subbing THF will mean you lose out on DNC procs and dual wield. The idea is you pick one.

The idea is you spend time getting items from Legion to up your TH back to +3 and repeat the same as is is now..

[Insaniac]

I don't think this is something to be that upset over considering they are adding a pet TH item. That being said I don't really see why they are bothering. It's not gonna stop BSTs from soloing dynamis or anything else they were doing.

[Xilk]

There is a HUGE difference between th1 and th2. There is also a not-quite-so huge, but still very noticeable difference between th3 and th4.

You know what, bst also get the the fencer, attack bonus, and crit damage + traits on their pets when they are warriors... and don't get me started on the mnk and pld pet traits!! Pet mechanics are a bit different from player mechanics. Some players are good at capitalizing on that.

Scream bloody murder! pups have whm, blm, rdm, rng, and PLD in their pets!!

There are still lots of situations situations where pet mechanics work against a pet job in favor of non-pet jobs...

[Ica]

I shoulda clarified, "bring a THF or /THF"

Why should BST have the same level of TH as a THF?

They don't. Their pet does, cause it's a THF pet. Also, BST currently does not have TH+ equipment like THF does, so we can't get anything higher than the base TH of specific pets.

[FrankReynolds]

As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Here is the premise regarding the hierarchy of the Treasure Hunter effect (from strongest to weakest).

1. Thief
2. Ranger
3. Support job thief
4. Other jobs
※As ranger received the new “Bounty Shot” as a support ability, it is now slightly more beneficial than a support job Treasure Hunter when effectively used.

However, with the increase in the level cap from 75 to 99, this ordering has started to become ambiguous, so in order to clearly define the premise again, our current aim was to find adjustments appropriate to follow this.

The prime example of changes to this hierarchy were with the increase in the Treasure Hunter effect for familiar pets due to the level cap increase and we would like to start by adjusting this area.

The development team looked into routes to adjust this, such as changing the pet’s job, lowering the stats of the pets in exchange for not lowering the Treasure Hunter effect, revamping the pet’s special abilities, etc., but ultimately they made the decision to preserve their fighting capabilities and only reduce their Treasure Hunter effect. To go along with this adjustment, we will be easing up on the materials required to synthesize “Lucky Broth” which created with the basis of the Treasure Hunter effect in mind.
※The current focus of this adjustment is for familiar pets, but in the future if automatons and avatars are given Treasure Hunter, we will be adopting the same policy.


To give a bit more insight, the development team looked into a completely different direction on this at first, exploring if they could establish proper balance to follow this idea by changing the drop rate table. However, if they were to change the drop rates, the obtainment rate for every single item would change and the effects would be too drastic, so they came to the conclusion that they would not be adjusting the drop rates.

This is just going to create a lot of pissed off (rightfully so) beast masters.

You have a whole laundry list of complaints about drop rates.

Why not increase the effect (not the arbitrary number, the actual rate of drops) from thief instead. Or beef up thief as a DD / party support job, so that it isn't stuck being treasure hunter whore, and it can go make some loot off of treasure hunter like beast does.

Sort of off topic: What happened to not nerfing jobs?

[lodie]

ZOMG the poor gimped bsts who solo dyna will have to get gear now like other players!!!!!!!!!

[Cordareo]

BST should have at least the same TH as /THF *ninja edit with Yuly/Falcorr not ourselves. It was one of the few things that made us worth bringing to anything. I get to do seal farming as BST cause I can tank and TH, and I can duo Dynamis with my friend and actually do well. BST will not be worth anything for Legion and is already worthless in Voidwatch. Dynamis is old, no matter how many times you rehash the content and to nerf a job solely based on one piece of content is so irresponsible. I don't even mind giving up main job THF TH tier for sub job, but to drop it to 1? That's just awful. Drop it to TH2 and don't make pet TH gear. Of course my opinion doesn't matter, just wanted a place to vent my feelings.

[Necross]

To give a bit more insight, the development team looked into a completely different direction on this at first, exploring if they could establish proper balance to follow this idea by changing the drop rate table. However, if they were to change the drop rates, the obtainment rate for every single item would change and the effects would be too drastic, so they came to the conclusion that they would not be adjusting the drop rates.

How about fixing TH to where it actually meant something in the first place, years ago before you all "fixed" TH.. TH4 MEANT something. now i sit here watching THF's all day get TH up to TH10.. and get a crystal drop.. seriously?

[Nynja]

AAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
ABOUT TIMEEEEEEEEEEEEEe


just like bsts not understanding why their pets being able to achieve -100%PDT is absurdly broken (yes you all whined like no tomorrow about that), theres no reason a bloody pet should have innate TH3.

[Camiie]

ZOMG the poor gimped bsts who solo dyna will have to get gear now like other players!!!!!!!!!

I don't solo Dyna, and my BST is geared quite well and I'm still getting nerfed. I bet you don't have anything resembling an intelligent response for that, do you? Of course not and neither does anyone else from the highest level devs to the smartest of the player base.

[Luvbunny]

Dear developer... congratulations for keeping spewing out WORST ideas one after another when it comes to pet based jobs. Do you even play the game? Are you so out of touch with what the players do in the game? EVERY SINGLE ideas when it come to pet based jobs are one of the worst ever - summoner, beast master, dragoon, puppet master.

Granted you did try, you do good with puppet master update, and you at least try to do some effort with dragoon - but please work a little harder for summoner job. Beastmaster was fine they way it is - it could use some tweaks but this nerf is not it. The various jug pets are genius ideas, it gives us options and flexibility though this one nerf takes the cake - dipper yully and falcon are not cheap pets for a reason!! It's a good income for crafters - and a good solo solution for beast masters. Please do not implement this dumbest idea ever...

[Nynja]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_j-5leje8ehE/TSChr0WiJsI/AAAAAAAAFnE/oun1_YRrm8Q/s1600/Everyone+Is+Mad.jpg

[Vivik]

Dear developer... congratulations for keeping spewing out WORST ideas one after another when it comes to pet based jobs. Do you even play the game? Are you so out of touch with what the players do in the game? EVERY SINGLE ideas when it come to pet based jobs are one of the worst ever - summoner, beast master, dragoon, puppet master. This one takes the cake though - dipper yully and falcon are not cheap pets for a reason!! It's a good income for crafters - and a good solo solution for beast masters. Please do not implement this dumbest idea ever...

It's hard to understand how pet jobs work when you're SAM ONRY!

[Dew]

About time they start nerfing bst. So annoying doing dynamis with like 3-6 Pearle/Pink bsts there everytime.

[Necross]

as i read through more of the posts my opinion is.. let bsts have their TH3 or whatever it is they can cap out at.. Fix TH itself so that TH10 or higher actually means something.. actually do the unthinkable.. fix and scale TH itself. you expect BSTS to shell out 100k or more gil for a pet that gives TH then gonna nerf the TH you have been giving what they have been paying for.

[Luvbunny]

as i read through more of the posts my opinion is.. let bsts have their TH3 or whatever it is they can cap out at.. Fix TH itself so that TH10 or higher actually means something.. actually do the unthinkable.. fix and scale TH itself. you expect BSTS to shell out 100k or more gil for a pet that gives TH then gonna nerf the TH you have been giving what they have been paying for.

I could not agree more - instead of nerfing they should make Thief TH actually MEANS something and make Thief as indispensable job by adding more useful abilities similar to dancer point system. I suspect lack of understanding of what the player wants, the inability to understand how to create good pet based jobs and the ignorant to other jobs and how to balance the games properly are what causing this. Plus they only play Samurai.... every other jobs are useless and require no fixing but A LOT more nerfing. Stop destroying the game and start listening to the players feedback. They took one step forward and 5 steps back every single time - it baffles me.

[deces]

ZOMG the poor gimped bsts who solo dyna will have to get gear now like other players!!!!!!!!!
Do you carry 40+ items for the benefit of 1 job only?

[Rohelius]

ZOMG the poor gimped bsts who solo dyna will have to get gear now like other players!!!!!!!!!

Thats your first post in the forums... lol?
We are not broke if we were we wouldn't be able to buy Pet food or Jug pets and if you cared enough about the issue you would know how rare the items to make said jugs are, with that said. If they in fact make the jugs easier to Synth then it should balance out because that's money in our pockets.

The fact that BST is good at those areas is because they are a solo job noobs stop saying "About time" and "They Control those areas". The reason your 3 and 2 man groups don't give you that same amount of loot is because loot is Divided!. simple math...

Their reason for nerfing this doesn't convince me though. THF gets something like TH+6 with items and gear combined right?
So what kind of stupid THF would take offense from a pet with half that you ask? a gimpy pink THF with dual Yataghans....

Ill take the nerf just fine, but is the reasoning for it that gets me thinking they gonna do it for other Pets job traits...
double attack? Defense Boost?
If players want to make THF more effective then a jug pet? then they need to work for those TH+1 items and get their gear in check.
If SE wants to make THF more effective then a Jug Pet then they need to give THF better JA's.

I really hope the recipes for Yuli and Falcorr are downgraded in accordance to the loss of TH-3

The question is what is worth 2 tiers of TH?

[Aldersyde]

ZOMG the poor gimped bsts who solo dyna will have to get gear now like other players!!!!!!!!!

And what about the bsts, like me, that have worked for gear?

I have all +2 empyrean, 5/5 af +1, 3/5 +2 relic (legs, feet, and gloves), fully upgraded astolfos for pet pdt and pet eva (and working on str axes atm), pet att and DA/crit mirke, moogle scenario pet pdt and haste hat,pet pdt- necklace, oneiros cappa, full pdt- and mdt- gear for myself, salvage fasty-feet, capped reward potency and close to best mnd gear I can get on a reward set, primal rend and runiator ws sets, and a half-made guttler. Hell, I even keep a full charm set in my mog sack even though I've used it once in the past year, when I helped a blu friend learn white wind duo.

I think I can safely say I've put a shitload of effort into my gear on bst, yet the nerf applies to me as bandwagon bsts. I leveled and played bst before it was cool.

Did you really just sign up for the forums just to express your schadenfreude over this? Fuck you and the horse you rode in on pal.

[deces]

As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

Here is the premise regarding the hierarchy of the Treasure Hunter effect (from strongest to weakest).

1. Thief
2. Ranger
3. Support job thief
4. Other jobs
※As ranger received the new “Bounty Shot” as a support ability, it is now slightly more beneficial than a support job Treasure Hunter when effectively used.

However, with the increase in the level cap from 75 to 99, this ordering has started to become ambiguous, so in order to clearly define the premise again, our current aim was to find adjustments appropriate to follow this.

The prime example of changes to this hierarchy were with the increase in the Treasure Hunter effect for familiar pets due to the level cap increase and we would like to start by adjusting this area.

The development team looked into routes to adjust this, such as changing the pet’s job, lowering the stats of the pets in exchange for not lowering the Treasure Hunter effect, revamping the pet’s special abilities, etc., but ultimately they made the decision to preserve their fighting capabilities and only reduce their Treasure Hunter effect. To go along with this adjustment, we will be easing up on the materials required to synthesize “Lucky Broth” which created with the basis of the Treasure Hunter effect in mind.
※The current focus of this adjustment is for familiar pets, but in the future if automatons and avatars are given Treasure Hunter, we will be adopting the same policy.


To give a bit more insight, the development team looked into a completely different direction on this at first, exploring if they could establish proper balance to follow this idea by changing the drop rate table. However, if they were to change the drop rates, the obtainment rate for every single item would change and the effects would be too drastic, so they came to the conclusion that they would not be adjusting the drop rates.

It's 1943 is calling the Dev team, they want Adolf Hitler back!

[Calamity]

About time they start nerfing bst. So annoying doing dynamis with like 3-6 Pearle/Pink bsts there everytime.

See, the funny part is that people think this will limit the number of bsts. It won't. Just means people like me, who are actually building relics will just be there in your way longer.

[deces]

This update, when it happens is really gonna hurt the economy everywhere. this is just one stupid idea you will all regret.

[SpankWustler]

I just wonder why making Treasure Hunter 4+ less disappointing and Bounty Shot less horrible were never even considered?

That wouldn't affect /Thief, which was mentioned, but maintaining the relative item-producing potency of White Mage/Thief mules can't be that huge an issue.

[Insaniac]

I'm gonna jump on the "You should have made THF TH mean something instead" bandwagon. All this will accomplish is lowering the amount of currency on the market and force BSTs to use atma of dread when they solo emp items lol. BSTs are still gonna solo dynamis. They will just walk out with 20-30 less currency until they get the pet TH item and they walk out with the same amount they did before. TH3, instead of apparently working just like a piece of TH+1 gear on top of TH2, should be changed to the same potency as the TH1 and 2 traits and TH levels 6 and 10 should get the same treatment.

[Insaniac]

Wait! Wait! WAIT!!


While thieves possess superior stats for all of the above, we do understand your concerns. I apologize that I can’t go into detail about specific abilities, but we are planning to make adjustments so that thieves are really able to shine.

This is just the dev team delivering on promises made. THF wasn't shining so they cut the lights out.

[Prothscar]

Do you carry 40+ items for the benefit of 1 job only?

I carry 130~140, does that mean I'm entitled to TH10?

[Calamity]

I used to think giving us a th pet was SE's apology to us for the silly amount of money we have to pay for jugs and pet food to keep our job going. Clearly I was mistaken.

[Nynja]

This update, when it happens is really gonna hurt the economy everywhere. this is just one stupid idea you will all regret.

no its not lol, umad. you had something that was imbalanced, and its being balanced...atleast in this case its being balanced properly. You still have TH1...?

"hi, I'm a scrub bst who has 50k in AH gear, I can solo farm dynamis for 200 currency without putting any effort into it. SE hates us because we used to be able to have PDT-100% on our pets, basically rendering them invinvible, and SE nerfed that, douchebags always nerfing bst, we've been through enough, WE DESERVE TO HAVE INVINCIBLE PETS WITH TH3" (which is the level of TH which stops to see exponential gains and starts to receive marginal gains)

[deces]

I carry 130~140, does that mean I'm entitled to TH10?

Sorry Ethers don't count.

[Elgorian]

I don't see why people are complaining, just because you lose some TH initially (they said they'd be adding gear to enhance this....) that doesn't meant BST will lose it's solo/duo ability. Is losing 2/1 TH reallllly gonna keep you from farming in Dynamis? Coins will still drop guys.....

[Aldersyde]

no its not lol, umad. you had something that was imbalanced, and its being balanced...atleast in this case its being balanced properly. You still have TH1...?

"hi, I'm a scrub bst who has 50k in AH gear, I can solo farm dynamis for 200 currency without putting any effort into it. SE hates us because we used to be able to have PDT-100% on our pets, basically rendering them invinvible, and SE nerfed that, douchebags always nerfing bst, we've been through enough, WE DESERVE TO HAVE INVINCIBLE PETS WITH TH3" (which is the level of TH which stops to see exponential gains and starts to receive marginal gains)

You sure are exuberantly elated over a whole lot of nothing than. LET THE HATE (of bsts) FLOW THROUGH YOU.

[deces]

You sure are exuberantly elated over a whole lot of nothing than. LET THE HATE (of bsts) FLOW THROUGH YOU.

He's just mad because his French cries and Whaabuger thread on the bst forum got nuked.

[Nynja]

um...you missed my point
TH0 <<<<<<< TH1 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< TH2 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< TH3 < TH4 < TH5 < TH6 < TH7....

thats my point, on a large scale, like doing dynamis every day for a year and checking final tally, TH7 > TH3. On a small scale though, which is what most people will experience, the difference between TH7 and TH3 is negligible.

[Granny]

Wow this is retarded, they have us falcor jug pet when it didnt win the vote, now they are gimping the jug along with ladybug, AND now they are gonna change the synth, just know they are gonna remove abaia as one of the ingrediants, so now that screws over Ebisu fishermen/cooking people.

SE this is rediculous.

[Francisco]

This is really just an idiotic move, for the sake of nerfing something. And my BST is like level 12 or something. I'm not even sure anymore because I don't care about BST. But this is still stupid.

You know how I picture this Dev. Team? A bunch of guys trying to come up with good ideas, only getting shot down by a megalomaniacal Tanaka, because he has a "vision" for how everything in FFXI is supposed to be. It's his world. It's his creation. His law must be kept. Balance preserved. Order restored.

I don't believe for a second Tanaka had anything to do with FFXI from the conception of Abyssea, up until sometime around the start of Voidwatch. It's just doesn't make any sense. I picture him being away from that entire era, on a journey of self-discovery. And the other developers, they had a ball. Until the day a dark shadow clouded the developing room. An evil wind blew across the cubicles. Tanaka stood, darkening the doorway, a furious scowl on his face. "W...what DID YOU DO???", he asked. He then went into full rage mode, ripping down posters, charts, graphs and storyboards related to Abyssea, throwing them to the floor... then jumped up and down on them screaming "NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!"

There is really no other explanation in my mind.

He has his vision, and here it is... he will keep nerfing other jobs until there are only about 40 players total left. He'll merge them all to one server, and instruct them all to gather together at Blueblade Fell for free Lv. 99 final weapons. Then he'll tell all the SAMs to use their job emote so there are flags. They'll do it.

And with that, Tanaka will have completed his final vision. Recreating the ending of the opening cutscene. He'll crack a half-smile and say "good..." - Then he'll look over his shoulder, to Sage Sundi, and say "shut it down."

Sage Sundi will ask, "Shut what down?"

"The server. Shut it down. Our work is done."

And thus, FFXI will die.

[Aldersyde]

um...you missed my point
TH0 <<<<<<< TH1 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< TH2 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< TH3 < TH4 < TH5 < TH6 < TH7....

thats my point, on a large scale, like doing dynamis every day for a year and checking final tally, TH7 > TH3. On a small scale though, which is what most people will experience, the difference between TH7 and TH3 is negligible.

Well, your first post wasn't very clear, since you only seemed to compare TH1 and TH3 but you explained it better there, so I can admit I was wrong.

Looks like you're in for some bad news though. This only means bsts will be in your way alot longer than, taking the currency you feel you so rightly deserve. Bsts are a stubborn bunch, we've tried to do stuff like limbus and nms solo even before th pets came out. This won't get rid of us.

And it may not even get rid of the casual bsts, the "scrubs" as you call them. As much as SE wants to ignore it, people want to do things in as small a group as they can. You really think people all ran to lvl bst to do dynamis because they had access to a th pet? They did it because they didn't want to share with other people. Lower th might mean less coins but I'm betting a solo bst will still get a better deal than splitting coins in the average duo. Annnnd depending on how they adjust the recipes, that means jugs could actually decrease in value a lot, meaning that all those "scrub" bsts will be raking in gil with lower overhead. Enjoy.

[Castoth]

The only thing worth doing on BST at this point is soloing. Might as well just delete the job at this point if they are going to take away one of the very (and I mean *very*) few perks of the job left.

[Nynja]

You really think people all ran to lvl bst to do dynamis because they had access to a th pet?

With the ease of leveling a job in abyssea...yeah. Sounds like a pretty solid plan, spend 1-2 days powering bst to 99, buy up 100k worth of AH garbage, make 2-3m every day via dynamis with next to 0 effort.

[Aldersyde]

With the ease of leveling a job in abyssea...yeah. Sounds like a pretty solid plan, spend 1-2 days powering bst to 99, buy up 100k worth of AH garbage, make 2-3m every day via dynamis with next to 0 effort.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong, considering how many bsts I see running around with sheep. Considering how ignorant the average player is, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that the vast majority didn't even know that Yuly was a thf, let alone that it had th. Believe what you want though.

[Muras]

I think only non-serious BSTs will actually care about this nerf, as in those who leveled BST just for dynamis farming. With a little extra thought, you can see why.

Basically, if SE adds "Pet: Treasure Hunter +1" items, you'll be able to gain Treasure Hunter on all the pets rather than just the two. This adds a lot of flexibility to what BST can use, and adds a lot more choice. So if they add two items with TH+1 for two different slots, you can have TH2 on any pet, or TH3 on the original TH pets. And the difference between TH2 and TH3, from the tests I've read about, isn't that huge.

So basically, those who play BST because they actually like playing BST will likely put in the effort to get these items and get rewarded for it with greater flexibility in their choices for familiars, while those who leveled BST for a quick buck get the short end of the stick. I know a lot of people are upset about this, but if you're serious about BST, then I think this is really a buff in disguise.

[Insaniac]

um...you missed my point
TH0 <<<<<<< TH1 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< TH2 <<<<<<<<<<<<<< TH3 < TH4 < TH5 < TH6 < TH7....

thats my point, on a large scale, like doing dynamis every day for a year and checking final tally, TH7 > TH3. On a small scale though, which is what most people will experience, the difference between TH7 and TH3 is negligible.Actually from every bit of experience I have its more like TH0<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<TH1<<<<<<<TH2<TH3<TH4<TH5 ect. ect. Once BSTs get that TH piece 99% of what they will be missing is placebo.

[JiltedValkyrie]

Nothing more annoying than 15 BST in zone hoarding the mobs with little effort. I say good.

[Aldersyde]

Actually from every bit of experience I have its more like TH0<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<TH1<<<<<<<TH2<TH3<TH4<TH5 ect. ect. Once BSTs get that TH piece 99% of what they will be missing is placebo.

Either way, there's no practical reason why he should be as happy as he is. Either the nerf will have little impact on a bst's currency yield and they'll continue as normal or it will be a drastic reduction in currency rates that will keep them in dynamis longer (if they're doing a relic) and in his way.

I'm annoyed with a bst nerf but I'm more annoyed at the players coming into this thread maliciously cheering on the further degradation of a job that does not get to enjoy a lot of play in endgame or any other group contexts really. That's just sad, borderline pathetic really. Is this the "better community" I've heard FFxi has had all these years?

[deces]

Either way, there's no practical reason why he should be as happy as he is. Either the nerf will have little impact on a bst's currency yield and they'll continue as normal or it will be a drastic reduction in currency rates that will keep them in dynamis longer (if they're doing a relic) and in his way.

I'm annoyed with a bst nerf but I'm more annoyed at the players coming into this thread maliciously cheering on the further degradation of a job that does not get to enjoy a lot of play in endgame or any other group contexts really. That's just sad, borderline pathetic really. Is this the "better community" I've heard FFxi has had all these years?

This game is going down quicker than a virgin on prom night.

[Stabbytabby]

2012 state of BST, a guide for all you non-BSTs

Monster placement and event structure has removed a primary ability line (and associated gear) from BST. Charm has been rendered useless for most purposes. Current jug pets are stronger than <75 ones, however, limited ability to buff jug pets remains an issue, especially on NMs.

Abyssea: No charmable mobs in zone. Severely limited procs. Aside from soloing, BST's only use is widescan and farming pearl/amber.

Empyreal Weapon: Very limited Empyreal weaponskill, weaker than all other normally used axe ws, including even the lolelemental damage mythic, barring the use of brews in Abyssea. Also weaker than almost every other Emp ws. BST reputation compared to other DD remains poor, job remains marginalized.

Voidwatch: Charming non VWatch mob results in instant loss of VWatch status, Charm, Tame, etc. remain dead. Jug pet instantly killed by spawning NM (loss of 1-5k gil per jug). Jug pet unlikely to survive long enough to use tp move without use of food (5k+ each for the good ones) and multiple pet jugs needed to attempt correct proc (much inv lost with no benefit in other activities). Instant kill TP moves leave BST with no pet for many minutes. BST not invited to Voidwatch.

Neo-Dynamis: Pet instantly killed by spawning zone boss (yay more pets wasted). Positive side, can solo as /dnc. Result, BSTs soloing in Dynamis increasing supply of currency and availability of relics/+2 upgrade items for the server at the cost of some zone congestion and anger by non-BSTs. SE planning to reduce functionality of Treasure Hunter on jug pets. Result will be decrease in global suppy of currency and 'Forgotten' items and BSTs continuing to inhabit Dynamis for even longer.

Merit Weaponskill: Ruinator nerfed from test server forumula before release to remain comparable to L55 weaponskill. Other jobs with higher invite rates and more roles in endgame keep devastating weaponskill formulas.

So, as you can see, this latest bit of 'balance' was critically needed as BST was beginning to dominate all aspects of FFXI...no, wait...sorry, I meant 'good luck seeing a BST in an alliance-level event or any endgame invented past 2010.'

Thanks very much for all the gloating and hate, you 'normies', it's like 2007 all over again.

[Insaniac]

Thinking this will have any effect on the number of BSTs in dynamis is very optimistic. It's just gonna decrease the currency supply by 10-15% and maybe drive prices up which will encourage more people to do dynamis lol.

That's my problem with this nerf. I don't know what it will accomplish. It doesn't make THF any more or less desirable. No one is using BSTs BLUs or RNGs for TH in group events. The time spent on this nerf would have been much better used making THF more desirable for other reasons like actual damage dealing or some unique abilities that made them valuable for something other than drops.

Maybe they want to slow down the production of relics. I can't think of any other real justification.

[Calamity]

Thinking this will have any effect on the number of BSTs in dynamis is very optimistic. It's just gonna decrease the currency supply by 10-15% and maybe drive prices up which will encourage more people to do dynamis lol.

Pretty much. The number of bsts won't likely diminish. If anything it means those of us who are building relics and can't wait to be done with dynamis will just be in there bothering you longer.

[Coldbrand]

This is really just an idiotic move, for the sake of nerfing something. And my BST is like level 12 or something. I'm not even sure anymore because I don't care about BST. But this is still stupid.

You know how I picture this Dev. Team? A bunch of guys trying to come up with good ideas, only getting shot down by a megalomaniacal Tanaka, because he has a "vision" for how everything in FFXI is supposed to be. It's his world. It's his creation. His law must be kept. Balance preserved. Order restored.

I don't believe for a second Tanaka had anything to do with FFXI from the conception of Abyssea, up until sometime around the start of Voidwatch. It's just doesn't make any sense. I picture him being away from that entire era, on a journey of self-discovery. And the other developers, they had a ball. Until the day a dark shadow clouded the developing room. An evil wind blew across the cubicles. Tanaka stood, darkening the doorway, a furious scowl on his face. "W...what DID YOU DO???", he asked. He then went into full rage mode, ripping down posters, charts, graphs and storyboards related to Abyssea, throwing them to the floor... then jumped up and down on them screaming "NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!!!!!"

There is really no other explanation in my mind.

He has his vision, and here it is... he will keep nerfing other jobs until there are only about 40 players total left. He'll merge them all to one server, and instruct them all to gather together at Blueblade Fell for free Lv. 99 final weapons. Then he'll tell all the SAMs to use their job emote so there are flags. They'll do it.

And with that, Tanaka will have completed his final vision. Recreating the ending of the opening cutscene. He'll crack a half-smile and say "good..." - Then he'll look over his shoulder, to Sage Sundi, and say "shut it down."

Sage Sundi will ask, "Shut what down?"

"The server. Shut it down. Our work is done."

And thus, FFXI will die.
No Sage Sundi would say "wut?"

[Nynja]

Pretty much. The number of bsts won't likely diminish. If anything it means those of us who are building relics and can't wait to be done with dynamis will just be in there bothering you longer.

Until you realize you'll be pulling in less currency than a dnc/thf / thf/dnc and change jobs and stop holding 5 mobs at once going "WAHHHHHH MY YELLOW MOBS ARE MINE" so everyone actually gets more currency because mobs are repopping instead of sitting stagnant.

[Calamity]

Until you realize you'll be pulling in less currency than a dnc/thf / thf/dnc and change jobs and stop holding 5 mobs at once going "WAHHHHHH MY YELLOW MOBS ARE MINE" so everyone actually gets more currency because mobs are repopping instead of sitting stagnant.

Bst still has a much higher kill speed than a dnc or thf. Or at least a real bst does. I should know, they're usually my main competition. Relic, emp, coruscanti, it makes no difference. I've yet to meet a dnc or thf that can match me in kill speed. The one part of your statement I do agree with is the whole holding 5+ mobs thing. I think that's stupid. It's asking to get kill stealed, and I'd much rather finish the mob off and beat you to the next one than work on multiples and risk getting poached.

*edit* I'd also like to point out that dnc's and nins are not one tiny bit less guilty of holding multiple mobs than bsts are. I know, I've seen it*edit*

[Insaniac]

Unless thier DNC/THF or THF/DNC is really well geared their kill speed will probably drop enough to make the TH not even worth it. If people do actually change off of BST though and solo on DNC or THF it should open up the DC camps a little more but I really don't see people changing off of BST for that extra 10-15% currency.

[Monchat]

As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.


Thats a welcome change. Treasure hunter is THF's defining job ability. It's bs that other jobs get it in the first place. They should never have given subjobs Treasure hunter II to begin with, for the same reason some usefull abilities from other jobs cannot be subbed, or are nerfed while subbed.

[deces]

Thats a welcome change. Treasure hunter is THF's defining job ability. It's bs that other jobs get it in the first place. They should never have given subjobs Treasure hunter II to begin with, for the same reason some usefull abilities from other jobs cannot be subbed, or are nerfed while subbed.

Are Dipper Yuly, and Faithful Falcorr not thieves?

[Kitkat]

So...a bst that "duo" to get 400~500 coins is reason enough to leave it at TH3 because it is a form of income? Uh huh...ok. Bst already has a viable arsenal between the various pets it can use, so I think letting the job have TH1 in the first place is a large concession in and of itself.


Pretty much. The number of bsts won't likely diminish. If anything it means those of us who are building relics and can't wait to be done with dynamis will just be in there bothering you longer.

And that effects people how when it is an event that is capped at 2hours per day? Just means that the solo bst will be in there longer over a span of days/weeks which can be worked around. Those who feel it isn't worth the time to do on bst will switch back to thf and bring a friend maybe for a little extra DD or healing. Honestly though, if you're still procing on JA mobs being thf instead of bst isn't going to be that big of a change. Kill speed might be slightly lower depending on gear meaning your yield will be roughly evened out unless you have extra DD with you.

This isn't breaking bst in anyway to be honest, it is just readjusting bst so it isn't a more versatile th job. "My emp sucks" so do a few others, but bst can still do things other jobs can't. Something had to give at some point.

[Zaknafein]

400-500 coins per run Bst duo? Yeah right exaggerate some more...

[Zinato]

The whole thing has me laughing. First how is a main BST given less then /thf? So, my Lvl 99 FF or DY is weaker then a subjob <hmmm.>.

Second, this change has 0 to do with dynamis I highly doubt SE had dynamis in mind. Here's two reasons why, TH or no I'll still go into dynamis daily and still kill the same number of mobs. But, here's the surprise It will take me longer to finish relic and guess what? I'll be competition for that much longer. Reason two, what if I do decide to go thf/dnc guess what? You now have the same competition but, now its using its high evasion to hold several mobs in a corner somewhere. (besides if anything is going to change dynamis soloing its going to be dnc and /dnc taking a hit, sure BST is common but there are just as many BLU THF NIN and DNC running around soloing)

Next, I doubt the Pet: TH gear will be BST exclusive and even if it is will it really grant THII or THIII worth TH? Much more likely it will be what TH4+ is for THF now.

All in all, its more of an annoyance then a solution. (despite the change I still find it humorous) And its the THFs I really feel sorry for since, they are being given exclusive use of high tier TH meaning SE probebly plans to keep them TH slaves forever. I'm still convinced they are doing this to BST as punishment for the problems surrounding the 99 cap.

*Story goes 99 cap was easier until a solitary BST solo'd it on the test server. They were very upset that the "epic" final fight was beaten so easily so they upped the difficulty 3-4x. Everyone who has ever complained about 99 cap can point a finger towards BST. I think this is but, the beginning BST is about to get a major spanking.

[deces]

So...a bst that "duo" to get 400~500 coins is reason enough to leave it at TH3 because it is a form of income?

Did you know the word gullible is not in the dictionary?

[Kitkat]

400-500 coins per run Bst duo? Yeah right exaggerate some more...

Actually it isn't if you farm the right zone. Much like it isn't unheard of a small group getting 900~1000 when camping the right zone/area. You do know NM's can drop 100's right? Otherwise I don't see how you can make this statement as a bst...and there are plenty of easy NM's to kill in hmm..I can think of 3 zones off hand near more than just a handful of JA proc mobs.


Sorry Ethers don't count.

You must never have played blu, and if you have and are saying this then you rely on your MP way too much.

[deces]

Actually it isn't if you farm the right zone. Much like it isn't unheard of a small group getting 900~1000 when camping the right zone/area. You do know NM's can drop 100's right? Otherwise I don't see how you can make this statement as a bst...and there are plenty of easy NM's to kill in hmm..I can think of 3 zones off hand near more than just a handful of JA proc mobs.



You must never have played blu, and if you have and are saying this then you rely on your MP way too much.

Congratulations Kitkat, Even a broken clock is right twice a day!

[Insaniac]

200 coins is easy for a single decently geared bst. If you have 2 at different camps with not much competition there's no reason they couldn't leave with 400 currency or 500 on a lucky day. I don't know what argument that was supporting but it's absolutely a common occurrence.

[Prothscar]

Good to see that losing 2 tiers of TH on your jug pets is akin to the Holocaust and diabetes to some people.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Good to see that losing 2 tiers of TH on your jug pets is akin to the Holocaust and diabetes to some people.

Do you forget what it was like with the Heavy Strike nerf that wasn't even in the actual game, Ukko's Fury etc...

[Kitkat]

Um, Heavy Strike wasn't technically nerfed since that never made it to live servers with the original power/accuracy. It was put there for testing purpose and when SE saw how it was used by the players they adjusted the output and accuracy of the spell making it so that it couldn't be abused. It is still a strong spell, just not the greatest of accuracy without using gear to enhance that pitfall. Makes the point sort of out there when this change doesn't affect damage output, just drop rate....

[Mavrick]

There are so many misinformation in this post I'm not even going to bother addressing them, I'd just like to share my experience thus far.

On average, I will pull in 150~180 coins solo depending on competition. On a few occasions i have pulled in 200+ coins, but this is very rare and requires that the zone be almost empty of competition.
Per day I would make about 1.2 mil ~ 1.5 mil. On exceptionally good days I will make ~1.8 mil.

Now this one is for all the Trolls and "lolbstnerfcrymore" I see being posted in here.
I just did a full dynamis valkurm run solo using Tiger jug. That's right, a Tiger jug... which is a warrior pet so no treasure hunter.

Here are my spoils as a solo BST99/DNC with Tiger pet (not thf)
Creeper's juju
Mirage Mantle
Commodore Belt
Warrior Stone
Comm. Tricorne -1
Mirage Keffiyeh -1
Sorcerer's Belt
T. Whiteshell x65
1 Byne Bill x54
O. Bronzepiece x46
Forgotten Touch x3
Koga Sarashi
Kog. Hatsuburi -1
Cleric's Belt


165 coins + 3 touches = 1.3~1.4 mil on my server. Surprisingly still within my average when using THF pet.
Don't let that dampen your day though, keep it Troll'n guys.

[Mindi]

I am happy about this change.. i see no reason why BST (or their pets) should have the same base TH like a THF lv 90... (and just because the Pet is a THF dosnt mean they should be like a player THF..)

the number of BST in Dynamis wont change much, maybe the lolperleBST (and those lolauroreBST o.O) wont be so many anymore because they feel gimped, but real BST will still get alot of currencys solo, simply because they can kill fast.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Um, Heavy Strike wasn't technically nerfed since that never made it to live servers with the original power/accuracy. It was put there for testing purpose and when SE saw how it was used by the players they adjusted the output and accuracy of the spell making it so that it couldn't be abused. It is still a strong spell, just not the greatest of accuracy without using gear to enhance that pitfall. Makes the point sort of out there when this change doesn't affect damage output, just drop rate....

I know, but it didn't stop the moaning. A nerf in anyway will get people moaning, a nerf years after adding something will do it much worse.

[Disifer]

You know i'm pretty sure i've been main'ing my BST since the 80 cap, with only WHM being my only other 99 I have geared. I am in full +2 plus other items, i'm not the perle bst everyone sees in dyna. My mule is a 99 BST clone of myself. My friend plays my other character. Sure i can double my currency per day. My average pull is 190-225 coins solo per run. Most days I don't even go on both characters. I also have a friends account I have access to where I do salvage and assaults, pooling the alexandrite and keeping/selling depending on market.

I honestly don't care about the TH nerf, another high att DD pet will prob hinder me on mobs i cannot proc right away. I never try to hold 5 mobs, at most I link 1 or 2. It's mostly from my experience the jp's who link and claim all they can, including if i had 2 mobs, and both proc'd, he would come over and WS my mob just to get my coins. The problem isn't the job, the problem is the greedy people you play with. Like I said, BST is my main, so you can imagine I don't do VW too often except on my WHM cause the job is worthless in VW. The job is used to low man old 75 content, and it makes it easier than having to bring a THF for TH3+. Most of the better drops I've gotten in salvage over the last 2 months are all off Pet TH and NOT TH9-10. It's happenstance obviously. I usually even go with a THF in salvage. The worst this nerf will do to me is leech my mule to 99THF, use money from currency sold have some LS merc my +2 items for me, in return i'll get the money back in 2-3 days usually.

I don't think anyone would be pissed if they said we're nerfing this but we're going to add this in the future. Perhaps an update to fix some of the problems of PET JOBS in general. As of right now, SMN PUP BST and DRG are mostly useless comparable to another job. Don't sell me tickets to a movie, have no one behind the counter to get me my popcorn, have the lights stay on during the movie, me sit on a wet soda filled seat, and have the movie cut out half way thru, and expect me not want ANYTHING in return. Stop taking and give for once.

You're problem with BST in dyna is jackoff players and lazy nubs in perle. This solves nothing but you still give the hypothetical thumbs up. I level'd my job the old fashioned way, maybe something 2% of the people on our servers can say. I'm not the problem, you're not the problem, "THEY" are.

[Teraniku]

This is an incredibly bad move. Bst is absolutely worthless in Voidwatch. Chances are it will be extremely undesirable in Legion. That leaves us primarily with two "semi relevant" events to shine in. Abyssea, and Dynamis. Do you think we shine in those two events because when people build parties for them they shout in port jeuno "5/6 Beast Master Can I have it?"

NO. We shine in those two areas because we are solo'ing/duo'ing. Or sometimes a small group of friends are doing something, and a Beast Master can fulfill a twofer by being a backup tank/DD with a little TH mixed in.

With this announcement you want to shit all over small groups, and solo play in events that are boring as hell to begin with. Where if people still need things from old events Bst offers a way to obtain those items without begging for help. To help new players obtain gear, or to catch up returning players to the game who need gear yet can;t find anyone to help, because everyone has what they need from these two events already.

Honestly wasn't Farsha enough of a kick in the balls to Beastmasters? Why don't the Developers spend their time making the WS not be the most pathetic empy WS these is outside of abyssea. Or make special pets only callable when you have relic/mythic/empy equipped? Unless this "TH gear" allows us to retain the same level of TH we've had with Yuly this decision is a complete slap in the face. How out of touch can the development team be with a game THEY are creating... Jesus.

or you know allow BSTs to be able to Charm mobs in abbysea etc. ...... oh wait that made too much sense.

[Disifer]

or you know allow BSTs to be able to Charm mobs in abbysea etc. ...... oh wait that made too much sense.

The whole problem reaches farther than abyssea. It started the day they raised the cap, the job has not been able to use ANY of the new content to their advantage. You can say thats wrong cause they needed to nerf pdt from 100% but that was nothing more than a toy. I could solo Hedjedjet but no proc and sometimes i got nothing. Nothing. Abyssea I was useless in, VW I AM useless in. Only old content will I really shine, is that so horribly bad? Take away TH and you don't decrease people in dynamis, you make me change my setup for salvage from 2 bsts and a who cares to 1 bst and 1 thf and a who cares. Einherjar i go as bst just cause i dont wanna change and it's easy content. Limbus I solo for coins and for omega and ultima pops, TH might affect how many 6k coins i make in a run from 40-60 to 20-30? i'm not there for coins anyways, i do it to kill time.

[SpankWustler]

I don't think either the cause or effect of this change are going to be as Dynamis-centric as this discussion is.

I see it more like this:

The local office supply store was out of liquid paper and toner last Thursday, thus a fog lifted and the Development Bros realized that higher tiers of Treasure Hunter do almost nothing. They were faced with three choices. Make higher tiers of Treasure Hunter suck less, mess with the lower tiers or number of tiers somehow to make something suck more, or do nothing.

It was getting dangerously close to the weekend, with only two or three days left in the week, so doing nothing was tempting. However, one bright fellow pointed out that removing a few tiers of Treasure Hunter from Beastmaster pets would be almost as easy as doing nothing and it would make something suck more. Many ties were worn as bandanas during that afternoon's glorious yet sadly sober celebration.

The effect on Dynamis will be almost nothing.

I seriously doubt a change akin to going from a range of 1.3-1.6 million in currency to a range of 1.1-1.4 million in currency is going to drive anyone away. I seriously doubt a few Beastmasters changing to Dancer will change anything, either, unless they're so poorly equipped that they just flail around and die and so incompetent that they continue flailing and dying day after day.

[Cahlum]

I am so happy thank you SE first nerf that was needed back to the Boyahda tree/ ru aun gardens with you bandwagon BSTs please :D

[Jile]

I am so happy thank you SE first nerf that was needed back to the Boyahda tree/ ru aun gardens with you bandwagon BSTs please :D

Remember how happy you are about this nerf, when they adjust SMN to make DG work the same as every other job.

... I'm just sayin.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Remember how happy you are about this nerf, when they adjust SMN to make DG work the same as every other job.

... I'm just sayin.

SMN is rubbish as it is, why would this bother it?

[Jile]

I love SMN almost as much as BST but regardless I was trying to make a valid point to a main SMN that he might relate to since it didn't seem he related to the perspective of BST's.

This entire freaking "TH problem" can be fixed by SE making TH stacking actually "work" rather than remain broken, like it is.. TH3 from a naked THF shouldn't have the same drop rate generally speaking as when something dies with (exaggerating) TH100... and presently, I believe it does for the most part...

Ppl on this thread complaining about hoarding of mobs... I have a harder time with the small groups that come in and agro all mobs and sleepga them, trying to keep them all for themselves than I ever have had from a few BST in a zone... So what's next?

The way Dynamis is now needs looked at - whether its a solo BST or some small group taking all the mobs, I personally believe the old zone limits on how many people can enter is too high to be "friendly" in the 99 world. Either Dynamis needs to have a 12 person cap on all zones - perhaps once 12 ppl enter a zone, any additional ppl would enter a different instance of that zone so things could be nicer for everyone all around? Another thought would be that if someone has red claim on a mob, any yellow mob they pull more than 10 yalms from its pop location would de-agro and go back to its pop location regardless of status like sleep/etc..

I hate to say it but.... perhaps setting 'all' mobs 'all' the time to be proc'able by everything, JA/WS/MA but make it a specific one each claim and you still have to guess which JA/WS/MA but wouldn't have to cycle mobs and camps 3 times a game day so each group could set a camp in their SeaCom and we might get more concept of 'respect of camp' that people associate with old xi tradition in xp locations (tho that didn't always happen that's the core of the complaint, lack of respect for others).

[deces]

I love SMN almost as much as BST but regardless I was trying to make a valid point to a main SMN that he might relate to since it didn't seem he related to the perspective of BST's.

This entire freaking "TH problem" can be fixed by SE making TH stacking actually "work" rather than remain broken, like it is.. TH3 from a naked THF shouldn't have the same drop rate generally speaking as when something dies with (exaggerating) TH100... and presently, I believe it does for the most part...

Ppl on this thread complaining about hoarding of mobs... I have a harder time with the small groups that come in and agro all mobs and sleepga them, trying to keep them all for themselves than I ever have had from a few BST in a zone... So what's next?

The way Dynamis is now needs looked at - whether its a solo BST or some small group taking all the mobs, I personally believe the old zone limits on how many people can enter is too high to be "friendly" in the 99 world. Either Dynamis needs to have a 12 person cap on all zones - perhaps once 12 ppl enter a zone, any additional ppl would enter a different instance of that zone so things could be nicer for everyone all around? Another thought would be that if someone has red claim on a mob, any yellow mob they pull more than 10 yalms from its pop location would de-agro and go back to its pop location regardless of status like sleep/etc..

I hate to say it but.... perhaps setting 'all' mobs 'all' the time to be proc'able by everything, JA/WS/MA but make it a specific one each claim and you still have to guess which JA/WS/MA but wouldn't have to cycle mobs and camps 3 times a game day so each group could set a camp in their SeaCom and we might get more concept of 'respect of camp' that people associate with old xi tradition in xp locations (tho that didn't always happen that's the core of the complaint, lack of respect for others).

Or they could get rid of the whole proc system that created this problem before dynamis becomes dnc onry.

[Disifer]

I hate to say it but.... perhaps setting 'all' mobs 'all' the time to be proc'able by everything, JA/WS/MA but make it a specific one each claim and you still have to guess which JA/WS/MA but wouldn't have to cycle mobs and camps 3 times a game day so each group could set a camp in their SeaCom and we might get more concept of 'respect of camp' that people associate with old xi tradition in xp locations (tho that didn't always happen that's the core of the complaint, lack of respect for others).
The taurus in tav are like this, but i've tried farming em, you might get 75 coins a run if u stuck to just them. I like the idea but not SE's version of it, what about repop timers?

[lodie]

Do you carry 40+ items for the benefit of 1 job only?

nin- ws, tp, pdt and eva puts me@ about 75/80 with rr toolbags food etc in satchel
pld- tp, shield, pdt, enm, max hp, mdt, 2 ws sets, cure cheat etc = 80/80
any job that only carries 40 items you are gimping

[Jile]

The taurus in tav are like this, but i've tried farming em, you might get 75 coins a run if u stuck to just them. I like the idea but not SE's version of it, what about repop timers?

Honestly, if they could adjust the proc's for all mobs to be the JA/WS/MA proc full time, the repops might even be less of an issue unless the zone was swarming with people.

[Disifer]

but the ones in tav per say, sometimes u can sit there for 5 mins, its not JA its WS or Magic, next one can be another 5 min. at that point you are better off running to a city dynamis. believe it or not you'd net more from the 2-3 JA mobs that are grouped among 5-6 non ja mobs

[PUNKED]

Bst gets bashed because its an anti social job and not very group friendly. It does not have the highest treasure hunter available by far. 9 other jobs have access to the same level of Treasure hunter. 2 have access to higher

Here is the correct order of current max TH available

1st THF
2nd RNG
3rd MNK WHM BLM RDM PLD BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH (with thf subs) BST with right pet*
4th All other jobs /thf
5th all other jobs

* MNK WHM BLM RDM PLD BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH have access to tarataru sash with Treasure hunter augmentation (RNG does as well but already added above). All these jobs have access to Treasure hunter 3 with /thf same as bst with pet

The problem with dynamis and BST nerf is not the problem of BST having TH its the poorly designed proc system where everyone hunts down job ability spam mobs. If you ask me maybe they should increase proc rate for magic and weapon skill mobs to discourage everyone going /dnc . Most ep mobs you will only get 1 ws attempt before you kill so make this a 50% proc rate. Also magic should be increased slightly - maybe to 10% as spamming is easiest on this. If they did this it would allow more mobs to be farmed at same time and reduce dyna congestion.

[deces]

nin- ws, tp, pdt and eva puts me@ about 75/80 with rr toolbags food etc in satchel
pld- tp, shield, pdt, enm, max hp, mdt, 2 ws sets, cure cheat etc = 80/80
any job that only carries 40 items you are gimping

And I'm sure well over half of your gear is multi job use. Oh wow... so you have 3 relics, you really are a tool. do you take meds for your OCD?

[SNK]

I know right? BSTs have been dominating dynamis and other popular content with their TH pets for years.

Oh noes BSTs are dominating crap that nobody seriously gave two shits about before. Considering it's a job that doesn't get invites to anything at all I find this nerf pretty fucking funny. Truthfully tho the nerf won't even be noticable in my eyes.

[Darkpearl]

Their reason for nerfing this doesn't convince me though. THF gets something like TH+6 with items and gear combined right?
No.
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/0/08/AssArmlets%2B2.png +
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/c/c6/Raider's_Poulaines_%2B2.png +
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/8/84/Thiefs_Knife.png +
job trait = TH8

I have Relic THF as main with DNC so for me wouldn't change much, however I find pretty ridicolous this nerf. Because BST is fun to play in Dynamis and OUTSIDE, because will kill price in dippery/Falcor jugs to cooking craft ppl like me, because doesn't have much sense to me. All the rest here that say THF should be only the TH main is irrilevant, they are just a bunch of crybaby THF main that can't see any other jobs but THF. Now, if you say that THF TH is shit, then yes, it is. Even now I think TH is a pathetic way from SE for encourage ppl exping THF, although I keep say TH is a lie. So many mobs killed with TH raise to 10 and the result was less then when th4->7 (Hello salvage? and so on...). Anyway, they should make more efficient the TH for THF and leave jugs pet with the actual TH, fuck the equipment. The thing I doesn't understand, isn't WHY BST have TH but WHY RNG have TH as well and WHY it should be more then /th and jugs. And SE speaking of balance when is 2012? There's already ton of coins around, there's already 90 milions of noobs around with relic, what you balance now? It should have be done before not now, don't make me laught. But correct me if I mistake.

[Karbuncle]

You'd be a gimp to put on a Thief's Knife in dynamis.

So TH7 is more realistic unless your THF is donning his dunce cap, and doesn't understand how the increase of Killspeed from using a Flame-Thock Trumps the negligible difference between TH8 and TH7.

As far as my View on the nerf, to reiterate, Nerfs suck, For every job, and are never called for. Its the Dev equivalent to "Easy way out" button. Instead of buffing one job, they nerf another. Its disgusting and lazy. They could have just made TH more useful past 3.

Shit, they could have given THF a JA (3min dur, 3min rec), Which Reduces an Enemies Defense, Evasion, and Critical hit Evasion (x2) Based on the Current TH Level.

Meaning at TH7, it'd give -14% Def, eva, an crit-eva to Enemy. A worthy Buff to THF, no nerf needed to BST, as in any endgame event, When evaluating TH, this Ability would come into consideration.

BST's keep their Dynamis, THF's Keep some/Gain some usefulness endgame.

So what they need to do, instead of nerfing jobs of their Placebo effect, is to give THF Main some BONUS to their High levels of TH (which past 3, are otherwise pretty moot). Give us a BONUS for upgrading TH beyond the unnoticeable increase in drop rates. something to encourage us to upgrade TH in places like Voidwatch, or BCNMs.

[Darkpearl]

You'd be a gimp to put on a Thief's Knife in dynamis.

So TH7 is more realistic unless your THF is donning his dunce cap, and doesn't understand how the increase of Killspeed from using a Flame-Thock Trumps the negligible difference between TH8 and TH7
I wouldn't say so, unless you are solo. I have soloed dyna one time with THF with mandau/twashtar and mandau/thief's knife, and never had problems on kill speed. Let's say not all have relic dagger (I think) tho.

[Karbuncle]

I wouldn't say so, unless you are solo. I have soloed dyna one time with THF with mandau/twashtar and mandau/thief's knife, and never had problems on kill speed. Let's say not all have relic dagger (I think) tho.

Not at all my friend! In Fact, Having a Relic and Thwast just makes it worse If you use a Thief's Knife.

I myself own a Mandau, And i can see a clear difference in killspeed from lolTHFknife, and using a Flame-Thok off-hand. But I've yet to parse a noticeable increase in drop rate. 100% of the time, Using Flame-Thok, I come out with more currency because i end up killing ~10 more mobs in the long run (The difference in damage between a THF's knife and Flame Thoc is near 20~30 or more a hit. That adds up quickly when you're fighting 70~+ mobs a run Du THF/WHM)

Its that the difference between TH8, and TH7, Is so negligible, Its insignificant. If you literally gained 100 Damage per mob in Kill-speed Gain from using a better mainhand, Its far more beneficial than Thief's Knife. Its just a worthless weapon in High-Density mob situations. Great for "one hit wonders" (Behemoth, etc), but not for fast-paced events like Dynamis.

The DPS hit is entirely too much to sacrifice for the negligible increase in TH. You'll be fine rocking TH6.

Also, Its TH7 with all of that, TH3+4 (2 hands, 1 feet, 1 Knife).

[FrankReynolds]

They just announced that each merit in feint will increase chance of treasure hunter upgrade by 25%. So thief probably starts at 8 after all.

[Darkpearl]

The DPS hit is entirely too much to sacrifice for the negligible increase in TH. You'll be fine rocking TH6.

Also, Its TH7 with all of that, TH3+4 (2 hands, 1 feet, 1 Knife).

Yes, DPS is less obvious... however start be insignificant when you are in 4 ppl, can sacrifice 100 dmg for a hope of better drop. Even if I think same as you that doesn't change a thing. And yes mistake count is 7.

[Darkpearl]

They just announced that each merit in feint will increase chance of treasure hunter upgrade by 25%. So thief probably starts at 8 after all. mhh didn't read that but was counting trait + equip, said th8 but was th7 total. Mistake count.

[Insaniac]

The difference between TH6 and 7 is so small that even the tiniest bit of kill speed easily overpowers that trashbag knife. It hurts my heart that you spent all that time on those daggers and intentionally gimp yourself ;_;

[Karbuncle]

Yes, DPS is less obvious... however start be insignificant when you are in 4 ppl, can sacrifice 100 dmg for a hope of better drop. Even if I think same as you that doesn't change a thing. And yes mistake count is 7.

Well, I more firmly believe you're sacrificing your potential for little to no gain at all, But i can see you're set in your belief. and there are some extenuating circumstances where Thief's knife in Dynamis would be acceptable.

So i will not bug you any further on it :)!

[Darkpearl]

Well, I more firmly believe you're sacrificing your potential for little to no gain at all, But i can see you're set in your belief. and there are some extenuating circumstances where Thief's knife in Dynamis would be acceptable.

So i will not bug you any further on it :)! Actually I rarely use TH dagger :x. I'm not a BST main or BST only player, I play with every jobs, however I must admit that jobs like BST doesn't shine in any other place and BST is fun like play PUP, so downgrade TH from it NOW that is 2012 make only PPL be more pissed. As I said, it should have been done before. Not now. I hope SE will backtrack from this decision, but if not, well... Im gonna use again THF then.

EDIT: This is for SE from me. You need it!
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m266/Laguna_Loire_00/Balancering.jpg

[Karbuncle]

Actually I rarely use TH dagger :x. I'm not a BST main or BST only player, I play with every jobs, however I must admit that jobs like BST doesn't shine in any other place and BST is fun like play PUP, so downgrade TH from it NOW that is 2012 make only PPL be more pissed. As I said, it should have been done before. Not now. I hope SE will backtrack from this decision, but if not, well... Im gonna use again THF then.

Maybe Instead of Nerfing BST, they should give THF's an upgrade to TH Beyond Drop rates.

As i suggested on the previous Page, How about a JA That inflicts the enemy with Negative effects based on the current TH level. Maybe something like..

Level 15 - Lustful Gaze (implying the absolute want of something, like treasure...)

TH1~3 - Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 5%
TH4~6 Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 10%
TH7~9 Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 15%
TH10~12+ Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 20%

So the higher TH, The more benefit it has. Have it be a Enemy-Target like Bully, Duration 3minutes, Recast 5 minutes. (Or 1min Dur 2min recast)

Something like that. It gives THFs an advantage to their high level of Treasure Hunter that benefits the whole party.

Alternatively, It could just be a buff to the THF, Higher TH = More Damage from SA or TA... like

JT - Level 15 "??" - Increases the Damage of Trick Attack and Sneak Attack based on Current Level of TH. (Formula, TH level x2 = % increase).

It gives Thieves bonus and reasons to upgrade TH above and beyond drop rates. It will fix that "BALANCE" Issue, as well as allow BST to keep their TH.

[deces]

Maybe Instead of Nerfing BST, they should give THF's an upgrade to TH Beyond Drop rates.

As i suggested on the previous Page, How about a JA That inflicts the enemy with Negative effects based on the current TH level. Maybe something like..

Level 15 - Lustful Gaze (implying the absolute want of something, like treasure...)

TH1~3 - Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 5%
TH4~6 Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 10%
TH7~9 Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 15%
TH10~12+ Reduces Enemies Defense, and Magic Defense by 20%

So the higher TH, The more benefit it has. Have it be a Enemy-Target like Bully, Duration 3minutes, Recast 5 minutes. (Or 1min Dur 2min recast)

Something like that. It gives THFs an advantage to their high level of Treasure Hunter that benefits the whole party.

Alternatively, It could just be a buff to the THF, Higher TH = More Damage from SA or TA... like

JT - Level 15 "??" - Increases the Damage of Trick Attack and Sneak Attack based on Current Level of TH. (Formula, TH level x2 = % increase).

It gives Thieves bonus and reasons to upgrade TH above and beyond drop rates. It will fix that "BALANCE" Issue, as well as allow BST to keep their TH.
They couldn't do that, that would require thinking and work to implement.

[SNK]

Jesus you people. The nerf isn't that bad. If anything it doesn't mean squat and anyone who even thinks this will stop BSTs from soloing in Dynamis has their heads up their asses.

I solo on BST all the time and yeah I hate the McGimpy Pink/Pearl BSTs as much as anyone else but it won't stop them from still farming. The Pets will still have a native TH1 so seriously it's not going to effect it much or stop BSTs from farming the zones.

[Kysaiana]

They came for the Warriors but I wasn't a Warrior so I didn't care. Then they came for the Monks, but I wasn't a Monk so I didn't care. Then they came for the Beastmasters, but I'm not a Beastmaster so I didn't care. Then they came for me but there was no one left to care...

Has there been a single positive thing added this year? I guess the DRG buffs and the lolcircle buffs. Starting to feel more like year of the nerf than year of the dragon. I don't play bst so this doesn't affect me but I still think nerfing everything is meh.

[HimuraKenshyn]

They came for the Warriors but I wasn't a Warrior so I didn't care. Then they came for the Monks, but I wasn't a Monk so I didn't care. Then they came for the Beastmasters, but I'm not a Beastmaster so I didn't care. Then they came for me but there was no one left to care...

Has there been a single positive thing added this year? I guess the DRG buffs and the lolcircle buffs. Starting to feel more like year of the nerf than year of the dragon. I don't play bst so this doesn't affect me but I still think nerfing everything is meh.

I really am thinking now they are deliberately trying to kill this game off.....

[Darkpearl]

I really am thinking now they are deliberately trying to kill this game off.....

Well.. FFXIV need more PPL so is obvious they try to force ppl rage/quit XDDDDDD

[Vivik]

Well.. FFXIV need more PPL so is obvious they try to force ppl rage/quit XDDDDDD

I don't think it will have the desired effect they are counting on. FFXIV is just plain horrible.

[BorkBorkBork]

BWAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA Keep it up SE you provide many laughs.

[Vandheer]

I'm still reading through all the replies (im on page 6...) but i must say all you thieves so far have failed to reconize you can BUILD UP your TH more so then BST and their pets currently with armor and the fact that landing critical hits on a mob has a chance to raise your TH further. Big woop if BST gets TH through a pet BST its how the BST pets work. They get the job traits of the job they are supposed to play.

I'm still thinking as optimistically as I can about the "Pet: Treasure Hunter armor but... :(

[FrankReynolds]

I'm still reading through all the replies (im on page 6...) but i must say all you thieves so far have failed to reconize you can BUILD UP your TH more so then BST and their pets currently with armor and the fact that landing critical hits on a mob has a chance to raise your TH further. Big woop if BST gets TH through a pet BST its how the BST pets work. They get the job traits of the job they are supposed to play.

I'm still thinking as optimistically as I can about the "Pet: Treasure Hunter armor but... :(

You have failed to recognize that killing monsters as fast as possible will yield far more drops than trying to proc higher levels of treasure hunter. Kill Speed == King.

[Vandheer]

Then like many before me said why do we have to lower BST TH when they can attempt to fix THF TH? Fixing THF TH might even be a start to a solution to the crappy drop rates in newer events as-well as please majority.

[Vandheer]

My mistake, they are making an attempt at that route as-well. x)


[dev1080] Job Adjustments: Thief
Assassin’s Charge
Recast time will be reduced from fifteen minutes to five.
Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead increase accuracy by 25% per point.
Feint
Recast time will be reduced from ten minutes to two.
Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead raise the chance of Treasure Hunter leveling up by 25% per point.

[Camiie]

Nothing more annoying than 15 BST in zone hoarding the mobs with little effort. I say good.

I just love how you guys act like whatever Dynamis zone you're in belongs to you, and no one else should be there to get in your way. The sense of entitlement is staggering. I honestly think that's the real issue here. If it wasn't BSTs it'd be another job, other players, parties, or alliances. You guys just want the zone to yourself and anything SE does to hurt others' chances while preserving your own will be A-OK with you. Well, sorry, but Dynamis doesn't work that way anymore. You can team up, compete, or wait for SE to discover the miracle of instancing. Welcome to Neo-Dynamis! Welcome to FFXI! Enjoy your stay!

[Mirabelle]

See, the funny part is that people think this will limit the number of bsts. It won't. Just means people like me, who are actually building relics will just be there in your way longer.

well actually only a little bit longer.

And it will likely limit the number of BSTs in Dyna since many of the BST's in there were bandwagon currency farmers only doing it to make money not make relics. They often weren't pulling in many more coins than a well geared THF or DNC so they may decide to do something else for gil if coin drops are nerfed for them.

[Vivik]

well actually only a little bit longer.

And it will likely limit the number of BSTs in Dyna since many of the BST's in there were bandwagon currency farmers only doing it to make money not make relics. They often weren't pulling in many more coins than a well geared THF or DNC so they may decide to do something else for gil if coin drops are nerfed for them.

I highly doubt that. I will still go bst over thf/dnc and I will still be able to hold 10+ mobs at a time. Nothing will change.

[Echlin]

Without becoming a raging nerd I have 2 points to make.


※The current focus of this adjustment is for familiar pets, but in the future if automatons and avatars are given Treasure Hunter, we will be adopting the same policy.

If your going to limit other pets to TH1 why is the development team even considering wasting effort on this. Just don't bother adjusting, simply making adjustments for the sake of it is an exercise in futility.

My second point. Was BST having a TH3 pet really a problem for the game? The only example I've seen was is Dynamis, and this nerf is resolved simply by going BST BST THF Rather than BST BST BST. Since you can lvl thf to 99 in 1 day thanks to Abyssea if your addressing over crowding in Dynamis with this store brand band aid patch its simply not gonna hold.

[Kiori]

Read 7 pages and that was all I could take...I don't see how this will get rid of BST from dynamis as the rest of you all seem to believe...BSTs will still kill fast, and if TH isn't an option...they can at least use a strong, more hard hitting pet to kill even faster now. I was always under the impression that BST only got as high as TH2 with the pets, surpised to find that it's TH3. BST will still be there soloing mobs, and there will forever be a player base hatred.

If you're a BST, you hate groups. If you're in a group, you hate BSTs because they are soloing.

In these situations, both groups are going to try and horde mobs, who's going to win this? The group will win because a BST can't hold hate 100% the time on multiple mobs without it flickering yellow/red. Each party member can hold one effeciently.

[detlef]

To go along with this adjustment, we will be easing up on the materials required to synthesize “Lucky Broth” which created with the basis of the Treasure Hunter effect in mind.
I would like to point out that it is unfortunate that the Lucky Broth recipe is going to be changed as a side effect. Abaia are one of the only legendary fish that actually have a practical use. As Dipper and Falcor are still going to be the only jugs with any TH at all, why is there a need to change Falcor's jug recipe?

[Vivik]

I would like to point out that it is unfortunate that the Lucky Broth recipe is going to be changed as a side effect. Abaia are one of the only legendary fish that actually have a practical use. As Dipper and Falcor are still going to be the only jugs with any TH at all, why is there a need to change Falcor's jug recipe?

For maximum derp!

[Scribble]

The only adjustments TH needed were for clarity and purpose.

Inb4 BST average 2% less coins than they were capable of farming prior to the changes.

[Aldersyde]

I would like to point out that it is unfortunate that the Lucky Broth recipe is going to be changed as a side effect. Abaia are one of the only legendary fish that actually have a practical use. As Dipper and Falcor are still going to be the only jugs with any TH at all, why is there a need to change Falcor's jug recipe?

Because a legendary fish, that can only be reliably caught with an ebisu and found in one lake in one zone, shouldn't have been introduced as a crafting material at all. You can already make a lot of money fishing up other stuff, even if you only npc all of them.

But don't worry, SE likes kicking bst in the balls. I'm sure that the abaia will stay part of the recipe. And instead of changing the lesser chigoe component of the yuly recipe, they'll drop the shell bug mat from it.

[Glamdring]

OK, my take on this whole thing. I have both beast and thief at 99, and I usually farm on thief... for Despoil. Because TH has no appreciable effect at any tier above 3, I need the yelds of steal/despoil to allow me to outperform any of my jobs /thf, or using a pet.

When I farm on thief, I'm currently gearred giving me a base TH5, and working on the gear to get to TH7. However, my thief with TH5 is no better than my beast with TH3 (actually TH2, since thief didn't out-perform my 85 bst/dnc in drop rates). This is in no way related the the awesomeness of beast thief jug pets, it's due to the way that Treasure Hunter DOES NOT improve with higher levels. I know SE has stated-time and again-that testing has shown that TH is working; I submit that 3 more drops in 5,000 kills is not an acceptable improvement with 2 extra TH tiers. In fact, my observation is that every time TH "builds" the drop rate in fact goes DOWN.

This solution is misguided. The cure is not to lower the TH of a pet that IS a 90+ thief and has thus earned TH3, it's to fix the effect of additional tiers of the ability. DAMNIT, THERE'S A REASON SO MANY PEOPLE REFER TO IT AS "PLACEBO HUNTER"!!! When I can do just as well, if not better as pup/thf than as thf/dnc farming this should be a clue. Let me put this simply, TH2 should not be equal to TH5+ in yield. Put your efforts into REAL, MEASUREABLE, PRECEIVABLE effects of this highly over-rated Job Ability; I want to see equivalent yields to Gil Hunter in terms of drops, not something that has to be trended over thousands-if not more-kills to be seen.

[Granny]

In all honestly there should be something a bit more worth while about getting a ebisu, than being able to fish up fish to make other people ebisu lols. It seemed like SE finaly did something worth while adding abaia for a synth... . Rememeber other jugs take higher end materials to synth like turtle jug needing dragon meat and so forth. With the amount of people with ebisu now at least on my server there has and prob never would be a shortage of abaia and or lucky broth, it's currently selling for almost always 30% less than ladybugs per stack.

[Juilan]

I read through this and I strongly understand that SE hates BST, the GMs do nothing about people sniping staggered monsters at 1% health in dynamis, even if you only have two monsters... You can actually get jailed for greif for yelling at the guy. (Broken system) Big whoop our pets have TH3, the only thing you're doing with saying bring a THF for TH is making the zones even more packed and keeping people going in longer because most people want a cut of the currency, or you can have that one bst come in for an extra week in the end... I have a better idea for fixing the currency issue, find a way to force the value of each currency down to 1k, that way you dont get the people going in for money... Have a vender in the past sell you currency for 4k a pop in past zones using AN... that'd rejuvenate campaign and actually give people a reason to use the expansion now that the only use of those world wide NMs is to get hermes sandals... campaign is miserably slow xp compared to a capped book burn or abyssea, but god for bid you change the balance like that. I'm sure I speak for most of the BST here when I say this, the pet TH+ gear should require some effort to get, but should not be a .000001% drop rate off a monster (LIKE YOUR STUPID VW DROP RATES DURP)

[Glamdring]

I would like to point out that it is unfortunate that the Lucky Broth recipe is going to be changed as a side effect. Abaia are one of the only legendary fish that actually have a practical use. As Dipper and Falcor are still going to be the only jugs with any TH at all, why is there a need to change Falcor's jug recipe?

because it took a full stack of Lucky with TH3 to PAY for the god damn fish? TH1 won't cover the cost. THINK people...

[deces]

So Square Enix wants every Beastmaster to take the worst hair cut possible, and if we do some VW or legion that we cant even proc in, we get a .000001% chance on getting 1 level of the TH they Indian gave us. I dont think I'm gona swallow this msg covered rotten shit. Beastmaster functions like a wheel going down the road And here comes a huge pot hole; the PDF nerf and we hit and it pits a dent in the rim. But were still rolling and another pot hole the road: ruinator nerf, and we are barely still upright and even before we could build up speed all of this happens in under course of a mile. Pet: Treasure hunter nerf.. ? Ta da its broken here comes the pit crew: ES as they put on a Square wheel That they say "This one is BALANCED" at what point do we get out of the car, look down the road, and slam the door? Here is an idea If your gona reinvent the wheel, at least make it round and better than before.

[Zinato]

The fact they are pulling TH3 isn't even the part I find most annoying. (Dynamis never needed it anyway, Only really used it in overworld fights for this and that) It's the fact this is just another strike at beast which just keep coming and coming. Players helped create the Loner BST image just like how they made ninjas into blink tanks. Now SE wants BST to "shed" that imagine, by slowly bringing it down to everyone else's level (Master + Pet = power of one job. Basically cutting both's power in half). I also have good reason to believe BSTs will be seeing more nerfs in the near future. I foresee a gimping to both pet foods (the kind of gimp that makes say theta biscuit once per 10 minutes, meaning forced alternation of food types to use at each reward interval) and mulsums or something along those lines.

[Phogg]

I don't think this has anything to do with Dyna at all TBH. If anyone bothers to explore the wide world of Vana Diel anymore, you might notice every scroll camping face-smash-named RMT is now a perle set BST with Dippers hoarding everything from SSG to Castle O. BST will still have no problem netting out lots of coins due to the proc system. Its the old, non-proc stuff that this is targeting IMO. This is a ninja RMT nerf more than a BST nerf, even if it does slightly impact actual players.

Im a THF and a BST and I dont see a ton of difference between TH3 >> TH10 but there is quite a difference between TH1 and TH3. So this will nerf those 24/7 RMT campers, hopefully at least.

[Camiie]

So once again SE takes on RMT by punishing legit players? I don't see how it can be a big difference to RMT but only slightly impact actual players. Some of us legitimately like to do older stuff where there are no procs or things like soloing Abyssea NMs where we simply aren't able to proc. Now we have to earn back the ability to do that as effectively (maybe) as we do now because SE can't be bothered to do a little police work.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. This has been Team Tanaka's method for combating RMT all along. Ironic that it's Tanaka's type of content that is what inspires the RMT in the first place.

[Zinato]

It's not RMT, has nothing to do with it. I did have an intresting thought however. So, THFs are rejoicing that BST is losing TH3 at the same time recipes to make those pets are being less restrictive to compensate. This brings us to Yuly and Lesser Chigoes which are currently one of the highest profit items on the AH. These chigoes are a low rate in harvesting and are much more regularly farmed via steal method and guess which job is profiting most from those Chigoes? Just a humorous thought.

[Disifer]

I just love how you guys act like whatever Dynamis zone you're in belongs to you, and no one else should be there to get in your way. The sense of entitlement is staggering. I honestly think that's the real issue here. If it wasn't BSTs it'd be another job, other players, parties, or alliances. You guys just want the zone to yourself and anything SE does to hurt others' chances while preserving your own will be A-OK with you. Well, sorry, but Dynamis doesn't work that way anymore. You can team up, compete, or wait for SE to discover the miracle of instancing. Welcome to Neo-Dynamis! Welcome to FFXI! Enjoy your stay!

How about you bust the chops of the 99 Cor with 90 Arma in FULL PINK soloing dyna. Or other jobs i've seen with emps and relics running around in perle gear or pink gear on jobs other than bst in dyna. That number is astounding on Ragnarok.

[hiko]

I don't solo Dyna, and my BST is geared quite well and I'm still getting nerfed. I bet you don't have anything resembling an intelligent response for that, do you? Of course not and neither does anyone else from the highest level devs to the smartest of the player base.

no, you're not nerfed, they said they add "pet: TH+" gear, you just have to work to get em.(and maybe they will be more than one meaning you get an higher TH )



I just love how you guys act like whatever Dynamis zone you're in belongs to you, and no one else should be there to get in your way. The sense of entitlement is staggering. I honestly think that's the real issue here. If it wasn't BSTs it'd be another job, other players, parties, or alliances. You guys just want the zone to yourself and anything SE does to hurt others' chances while preserving your own will be A-OK with you. Well, sorry, but Dynamis doesn't work that way anymore. You can team up, compete, or wait for SE to discover the miracle of instancing. Welcome to Neo-Dynamis! Welcome to FFXI! Enjoy your stay!

no, the issue that for >10 of those 15bst the only work they ever done for bst are:
lvl it to 30
farm gil to pay aby leech pos .
buy jug
go dyna

[Camiie]

no, you're not nerfed, they said they add "pet: TH+" gear, you just have to work to get em.(and maybe they will be more than one meaning you get an higher TH )


K, we'll chop some Store TP traits off SAM but add some Store TP gear to VW and Legion. It's not a nerf so it's all good right?



no, the issue that for >10 of those 15bst the only work they ever done for bst are:
lvl it to 30
farm gil to pay aby leech pos .
buy jug
go dyna


99.99% of all statistics are made up, including that one. So what if they raced to 99 and are running around in perle/aurore? It's not like a THF or DNC has to be tricked out in cutting edge gear to do Dynamis either. Would you be happier if it was career BSTs in high end, hard to get gear doing the same thing? I doubt it.

If it's so easy for a BST to gimp it up and own Dynamis, which I don't doubt since it's not exactly filled with IT++ mobs... Why aren't all those who see how awesome and easy it is doing it too?

It's like complaining about the rich getting richer when you know their path to success and could easily follow it yourself, but instead you want someone else to cut off their path even if it doesn't benefit you at all just to justify your own choices.

[Juilan]

I've been thinking a lot about this, and Indians did enjoy scalping Indian givers... People gravely detest having to work for something they used to have. I'd like to see why producers like alienating their audience like that

[Vosslerr]

Tbh, I get tired of BST's claiming two mobs with them and their pet in Dynamis and coming in stealing camps. This is welcoming news for me. GF bst.

[Camiie]

Tbh, I get tired of BST's claiming two mobs with them and their pet in Dynamis and coming in stealing camps. This is welcoming news for me. GF bst.

I've had camps stolen throughout the years by non-BSTs and I never ever thought that another job or aspect of the game should be nerfed for my benefit. Obviously a nerf affects a lot more than the small number of people bothering you. I guess you're just a lot more selfish than I am. That's what I see in the proponents of this nerf. Selfishness and entitlement.

[Nynja]

99.99% of all statistics are made up, including that one. So what if they raced to 99 and are running around in perle/aurore? It's not like a THF or DNC has to be tricked out in cutting edge gear to do Dynamis either. Would you be happier if it was career BSTs in high end, hard to get gear doing the same thing? I doubt it.

You'd have to be pretty naive to think that the bst population shot up after the changes to dynamis and the knowledge that with minimal gear and effort you can pull in more currency than any other solo job, and that they arent related.

[Vosslerr]

Yeah, nearly 90% of the BST's in Dynamis are always Perle. You can tell its a burnt job solely for Dynamis. Nothing selfish about it really. All i see them doing is encouraging BST's to work for the best gear, wgich is what most BST's atm need to learn.. Respect to those that have been playing the job for years, I got no problem with that.

[Jile]

Make all mobs in dynamis proc JA/WS/MA all the time rather than how it is now and people
wouldn't need to keep changing camps three times per gameday and could stick to one
mob - could set a seacom with a set camp and everyone could play nice.

Too simple of a solution so I'm sure it cant be done due to the PS2 limitation or some other
standard excuse.

[Zinato]

Once again this has nothing to do with dynamis, 0. Any BST worth anything will be right back in there update day with a power pet instead of TH and killing faster to compensate lack of TH. Rejoice if you want, I assure you your competition is going nowhere. (and thanks to this will be around even longer)

[Camiie]

You'd have to be pretty naive to think that the bst population shot up after the changes to dynamis and the knowledge that with minimal gear and effort you can pull in more currency than any other solo job, and that they arent related.

That's how they want to play. Dynamis is a free for all zone like most every other. You don't like it? Tough. That's not a valid reason for something to be nerfed. You don't like their gear or their play style? Don't play with them.



Yeah, nearly 90% of the BST's in Dynamis are always Perle. You can tell its a burnt job solely for Dynamis. Nothing selfish about it really. All i see them doing is encouraging BST's to work for the best gear, wgich is what most BST's atm need to learn.. Respect to those that have been playing the job for years, I got no problem with that.

I have been playing the job for years and no one owes me a damn thing. I don't deserve anyone's respect for playing a video game and neither does anyone else. Respect for being a person? Yeah. For playing FFXI? lol.. No.

As for earning back something through gear that we already had? I think you only find that acceptable because it's not you having to do it.

[Nynja]

That's how they want to play. Dynamis is a free for all zone like most every other. You don't like it? Tough. That's not a valid reason for something to be nerfed. You don't like their gear or their play style? Don't play with them.

way to ignore something thats as close to as fact as can be without being able to actually being able to confirm it as fact. Dynamis gets an overhaul, widespread reports are coming out that with minimal effort and AH-tier gear a bst can walk out with more currency than any other solo job, all of a sudden the number of bst's rise...and you think its unrelated?

and yeah, it does deserve a nerf. THF will NEVER be getting any positive adjustments (even a damn native subtle blow) because of treasure hunter, yet it makes sense that a bst with 2 pets can recieve the same native treasure hunter effect? ok...

[Zinato]

Pull the TH3 that's fine but why /thf > BST? Outperformed by a subjob, this must be what its like to be RDM. Or perhaps its a theme?

[Nynja]

Pull the TH3 that's fine but why /thf > BST? Outperformed by a subjob, this must be what its like to be RDM. Or perhaps its a theme?

whats stopping you from going bst/thf?

[Zinato]

Lack of procs, which really would change how dynamis works. If people want to have an issue with Dynamis its the JA not TH or BST. Outside sure why not, doesn't make it less lame my lvl 99 pet has the TH of a level 15, even puppetmaster has that via Taru sash.

[Nynja]

but i thought wasnt about dynamis...now its about dynamis? You cant neglect dynamis when it doesnt work in your favor, then include it when it does.

so once again, it makes sense that a pet has the same level of TH as a job that had been directly told that any positive buffs or adjustments, even those as minor as a native subtle blow, will break game balance because of how powerful TH3 is? Thats even worse than a nerf, that means we have NOTHING to look forward to.

[Zinato]

Let me clarify, TH3 or any TH does not affect dynamis. A subjob other then /dnc DOES affect dynamis. (wouldn't matter if thf, rdm, sam, war etc.) Changeing subjobs as we discussed is an entirely different topic. What is stopping me from being bst/thf? Its not bst/dnc.

[Nynja]

Let me clarify, TH3 or any TH does not affect dynamis.

ok, then why the 3 pages of BOO HOO HOO exactly if TH doesnt affect dynamis, considering majority of bst's abysseaburned their bst's to 99 for the sole purpose of dynamis?

[Zinato]

When did I boohoo? My first post i was laughing. I told you take away TH3 let thf have the only ability they will ever have, SE basically put this in stone by taking it away from everything else. All I have said is my lvl 99 THF pet (which by your testimony) has the birth right of TH, is equal to a pup/dnc in terms of potency, which is lame. Even RNG which barely even makes sense to have TH (COR would make more sense, Pirate + treasure = ???) has more then a BST pet. They didn't reduce TH as much as they put it at the very bottom, and the PET: TH gear ill bet applies to smn, pup and drg as well (meaning even with the gear pup will have equal TH to a lvl 99 THF pet)

And since we were on the topic of dynamis why do you think there are procs in the first place? Could it be they didnt want an army of THFs walking in and using TH3 to clean the place out? BST/DNC killing for currency may very well be a result of THF in the first place.

[Nynja]

i didnt mean you directly, I mean the 3 pages of "WAHHHHH" going on here by the bst community, and I use the term community loosely as, as I said above, majority of people here "BAWWWW"ing use their bst solely for optimal solo dynamis farming.

[Zinato]

And, I don't see why I've been farming dynamis on BST for months. I've used a variety of pets TH and not, results are nearly the same. (even I don't understand the need to keep TH3, TH2 ill fight for but not TH3) Why do I use Yuly? Because, mixed with EVA axes nothing can touch him, (I do have to give THFs credit for EVA) in most cases I can heal him to full with stay while moving camps, and have him there by the time I proc the first mob in the next camp. Otherwise TH has done nothing for me outside abyssea or a random farm fest here and there, both cases do warrent /thf. If you take nothing from this, at least take the fact as a BST that solos dynamis daily TH3 is not a loss, TH2 debatable since that does make a difference in everyday things. (and again all these BSTs complaining about dynamis have been grossly misinformed, since TH isn't even a BSTs greatest advantage in dynamis) Now if they take away /dnc steps or flourishes then there will be something to discuss.

[Camiie]

way to ignore something thats as close to as fact as can be without being able to actually being able to confirm it as fact. Dynamis gets an overhaul, widespread reports are coming out that with minimal effort and AH-tier gear a bst can walk out with more currency than any other solo job, all of a sudden the number of bst's rise...and you think its unrelated?

and yeah, it does deserve a nerf. THF will NEVER be getting any positive adjustments (even a damn native subtle blow) because of treasure hunter, yet it makes sense that a bst with 2 pets can recieve the same native treasure hunter effect? ok...


It's related, but it isn't a problem. So what? BST is an outstanding soloer even without top notch gear? Well stop the presses! We've got the story of the decade right here! BST is a job who's sole accepted purpose is to be a soloer. They probably SHOULD be better at it than any other job since they sadly have nothing else to offer. SE tosses them a bit of TH since they're usually on their own, and it's all of a sudden Armageddon.

A WHM is still the best healer in game even if they aren't tricked out. A DD job is still going to do more DPS than a non-DD job. A half-assed BST is going to solo better than a job with less natural soloing ability. That's just how it is.

If you want something good for THF then ask for something good for THF. Taking a wiz in someone else's Cheerios doesn't do a thing for you unless you just get a thrill out of being vindictive. I'd like to think you aren't that type, but many people in life seem to be. Heck, I know I don't count for much but I'd be behind THF getting a boost. I know you guys have had it rough for a long time, and I'd be glad to see things change for the better.

[deces]

Square Enix should get out of the gaming business, and start selling retread tires.

[Nynja]

BST is a job who's sole accepted purpose is to be a soloer. They probably SHOULD be better at it than any other job since they sadly have nothing else to offer.

and THF is a job who's sole purpose as STATED BY THE GAME DEVS is to make treasure appear. They probaby SHOULD be better at it than any other job since sadly they have nothing else to offer.

yet a bst walks out with a lot more currency than a solo thf. go figure.


If you want something good for THF then ask for something good for THF.

We did, and guess what we were told? (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11492-Screwed-again-Proposed-THF-job-adjustments.?p=153704&viewfull=1#post153704)
Q: Add Subtle Blow to thief.
A: Due to the fact that normal attacks now increase the effects of Treasure Hunter, we chose to forgo the addition of Subtle Blow as a trade off.

Cant give native Subtle Blow becuse of Treasure Hunter.

[Camiie]

and THF is a job who's sole purpose as STATED BY THE GAME DEVS is to make treasure appear. They probaby SHOULD be better at it than any other job since sadly they have nothing else to offer.

yet a bst walks out with a lot more currency than a solo thf. go figure.


I'd have no problem at all with them boosting THF's base TH. Hell it'd be great for everyone who is a THF or teams up with one. Tanaka would sooner pull the plug on the servers than have more loot dropping, but this is the direction they should be going in. If they wanted to do this or you wanted to propose it, it's got my support.

As I said, I'd love for THF to get some love. You guys deserve a break after all these years. I don't know if more TH is the answer or what, but I want good things to happen for THFs. I just don't want bad things to happen to BST or any other job.

[Zinato]

and THF is a job who's sole purpose as STATED BY THE GAME DEVS is to make treasure appear. They probaby SHOULD be better at it than any other job since sadly they have nothing else to offer.

yet a bst walks out with a lot more currency than a solo thf. go figure.

/dnc + proc system. Not trying to fight you just making sure we know who the culprit is.
BST and THF are fighting neither cause a significant change in dynamis. BST/DNC better DD than THF/DNC, simple as that. After the adjustment BST will still pull in more currency. I'd be upset about limbus if over 60% of mobs weren't preset for drops.

[Nynja]

I'd have no problem at all with them boosting THF's base TH.

They said they cant do that because they've have to revise every mobs loot distribution. Its kinda in the OP

To give a bit more insight, the development team looked into a completely different direction on this at first, exploring if they could establish proper balance to follow this idea by changing the drop rate table. However, if they were to change the drop rates, the obtainment rate for every single item would change and the effects would be too drastic, so they came to the conclusion that they would not be adjusting the drop rates.

[Camiie]

I still don't see why a BST like me has to take a hit because they're unwilling to help THF out. It only makes BST worse. That's it. That's all it does. It may not be a drastic reduction, but it's still a reduction. THF is no better off. Nothing is fixed. It's just a nerf to make some people feel better while others feel worse. I guess in that way it's balanced, but it's the only way I see.

[Nynja]

how does it make bst worse? Sub thf if you want TH2. why should bst be so special to have THF's defining trait in a pure unhindred form?

and before you turn it around and go "RNG has it"...theyre so frail and weak the concept of RNG soloing anything is beyond laughable. Not to mention their TH ability is bound to a 3 minute timer.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

how does it make bst worse? Sub thf if you want TH2. why should bst be so special to have THF's defining trait in a pure unhindred form?

and before you turn it around and go "RNG has it"...theyre so frail and weak the concept of RNG soloing anything is beyond laughable. Not to mention their TH ability is bound to a 3 minute timer.

The pet is a THF, just like other pets are other jobs. They are level 97~99 they should have the defining traits of the job.

That said, BST's will still do everything they do now. It's not as if TH really works. Luck is luck.

[Nynja]

lol im done, you guys are riding on the same garbage...

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/c/c7/DealWithItInfinite.gif

[Zinato]

While that may be true, so far BST has had what 5 jobs to work with? PLD DRK WAR MNK and THF, not many examples to work with. If a RDM pet had composure, WHM pet solace, SAM pet stp, NIN pet shadows then sure it would make more sense. The Diremite has no magic, no dread spikes, no souleater like a DRK, and Carrie/Ralphie are just "turtle" tanks not even really PLD by job trait just very high defense and low attack. The double attack and crit hit bonus of WAR, as well as guard and counter of MNK hardly sets a "defineing Job traits standard".

[SpankWustler]

To give a bit more insight, the development team looked into a completely different direction on this at first, exploring if they could establish proper balance to follow this idea by changing the drop rate table. However, if they were to change the drop rates, the obtainment rate for every single item would change and the effects would be too drastic, so they came to the conclusion that they would not be adjusting the drop rates.

This is so vague that I honestly can't tell if it's referring to high tiers of Treasure Hunter or making an adjustment to the drop system itself. I assumed the latter, since the phrase "Treasure Hunter" isn't mentioned in this paragraph at all. Maybe it means they actually did consider making high tiers of Treasure Hunter less disappointing and decided against it?

It wouldn't be the first time they've chosen to express something in the vaguest terms humanly possible.

If it is referring to Treasure Hunter, I would have loved to be a fly on the wall during that meeting. ".05% increase for each tier is just perfect. The ideal is achieved. Oh, hey, want to have roasted orphans for lunch?"

[Louispv]

no, you're not nerfed, they said they add "pet: TH+" gear, you just have to work to get em.(and maybe they will be more than one meaning you get an higher TH )
No, they specifically said they won't do that. It says, right there in the OP, that all other jobs will be kept inferior to a THF support job. Even with the pet TH+ gear, our TH will be kept inferior to TH2, because that is what a /THF gets.


how does it make bst worse? Sub thf if you want TH2. why should bst be so special to have THF's defining trait in a pure unhindred form?

And as soon as BST gets "THF's defining trait in a pure unhindred form" you can say that. Pets don't get to increase the TH level with every melee swing, job ability, and WS. And they definitely don't get what defines THF's job, which is Steal by the way.

[Camiie]

BST also doesn't get TH3 naked which THF does. BSTs have to use specific expensive pets to get it. THF just has to perform an offensive action on the target even if that action isn't successful. A THF can be Whiffy McWhifferton and still stick TH3 on a target.

Now, someone will say a THF can't solo Dynamis mobs naked while a BST could. That's probably true, but I wouldn't want to try it. The BST would last longer (well his pet would), but you know that's kind of the benefit of being a pet job. Neither would accomplish very much compared to someone who's even geared in perle/aurore (which seems to be what offends people the most in all this).

[Darkpearl]

A THF solo can pull 150 coins in dyna-valkurm doing rotation mobs same as BST, while BST can pull 150 coins (to 200 if very lucky cause less competition). The difference is, BST spend gils for buy pets/food etc (unless you have cooking and patience for farm ingredients) for TH3, while THF doesn't need anything to spend on and have TH5-7. Now, if you say THF TH isn't working (shit I say too that TH is a lie when I play THF) that's not a reason to gimp down BST TH. You THF guys "only", complaining on BST for bawing without even see that you are bawing as well. I think THF is always welcome in every place, and with a good equip can DD pretty well even in dynamis (hello Mandau/Twashtar/Corruscanti or whatever is name?), and got that cute ability called Bully that allow you to sa-ws from every side. For me, this BST nerf is bullshit, even if will not change much for me. No BST? I go THF. I bet all this bullshit born from Japanese players for free Dynamis.

[Nynja]

And they definitely don't get what defines THF's job, which is Steal by the way.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/are-you-serious-rage-face.jpg

[Zinato]

And they definitely don't get what defines THF's job, which is Steal by the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4
Looks like someone has never played as or with a thf.

[Protey]

Ah, solo BST in dyna, I wonder if I'll still get to see them as much in the near future with their pet TH going down. I <3 coming across those guys with multiple mobs on them and they proc one and go onto the next. I just go up to the one they just proc'd when it goes yellow, WS and boom free coins without having to spend time procing for me. To all of you solo BST out there who are going to naysay my comment... get over it, you don't have the right to own multiple mobs like you think you do. To everyone else... yea, you know you <3 doing it too.

[Karbuncle]

I think what he's saying is in Past FF titles, Steal and mug defined the THF job.

Though, Comparing 11 to past titles is not a good idea, as none of the previous games were constantly changing MMOs, and the dynamics of a single player game, an MMO, are vastly different.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Ah, solo BST in dyna, I wonder if I'll still get to see them as much in the near future with their pet TH going down. I <3 coming across those guys with multiple mobs on them and they proc one and go onto the next. I just go up to the one they just proc'd when it goes yellow, WS and boom free coins without having to spend time procing for me. To all of you solo BST out there who are going to naysay my comment... get over it, you don't have the right to own multiple mobs like you think you do. To everyone else... yea, you know you <3 doing it too.

No one does, doesn't stop half the WAR population taking all the enemies in Abyssea zones etcetera...

So.... Get over it.

[Phogg]

Funny thing is those BSTs holding mobs are the same D-bags over the years who would never take BST to any event EVER because they could not fit them within the easy confines of max/min or GTFO scenarios. Now those same douchy people are causing strife in Dyna, causing a bad image for BST all over again. Gotta love it. Its not the job, its the people. And if there's one thing this game highlights better than any other, its who the massive tools are.

It is pretty hilarious though after all these years to have people so pissed off by the Big Bad BST takin my mawbs, wahh. Cry me a river and see what it was like to be BST over the last 8 years when all content was dominated these same idiots and people who wanted to play BST were cast aside like beggars picking up whatever scraps they could solo.

Also funny that Protey brings up an example that just shows he would rather play like a petty vengeful jackass than find his own mobs. Hi kettle, are you black too?

[Darkpearl]

you don't have the right to own multiple mobs like you think you do.

Ignorance is the main theme today? "you don't have the right to own multiple mobs"? Seriously? Who said it? If you suck don't cry. I bet there's many BST out there that will keep play BST in dyna. That's dyna, all ppl are enemies inside, but there's nice people that won't claim your mobs (not your mobs in term you OWN them) that you aggro/links, and there's ppl that don't hesitate claim your mobs. I prefer the first one, but if someone will grab my mobs, I'm gonna send the favor back when have a chance. But don't expect that PPL will leave you free mobs. Oh for your info, not only BST can hold 2 mobs, but even PUP or a party. So much ignorance around. You should get over it.

[hiko]

K, we'll chop some Store TP traits off SAM but add some Store TP gear to VW and Legion. It's not a nerf so it's all good right?

I bet when ypu play THF you fulltime your TH gear? removing SAM STP force them to "full time" more STP gear, all you have to do is equip it while you pet hit once then swap it (OMG you gimped yourself 1round per mob, just like THFs)

[Protey]

Also funny that Protey brings up an example that just shows he would rather play like a petty vengeful jackass than find his own mobs.

I must be a petty vengeful jackass... I mean here I am killing one at a time and along comes a couple BST training all the rest of the mobs at once leaving none for anyone else. So in your mind when that happens I should have to go to the other side of the zone? I think not. People want to train a whole set of mobs? ok, just don't expect to have everyone else stand by getting nothing while you slowly kill all the mobs, I'm going to take some of them. Because I shouldn't have to go to the other side of the zone because you're a dick.


Ignorance is the main theme today? "you don't have the right to own multiple mobs"? Seriously? Who said it? If you suck don't cry. I bet there's many BST out there that will keep play BST in dyna. That's dyna, all ppl are enemies inside, but there's nice people that won't claim your mobs (not your mobs in term you OWN them) that you aggro/links, and there's ppl that don't hesitate claim your mobs. I prefer the first one, but if someone will grab my mobs, I'm gonna send the favor back when have a chance. But don't expect that PPL will leave you free mobs. Oh for your info, not only BST can hold 2 mobs, but even PUP or a party. So much ignorance around. You should get over it.

You're the one ignorant, and I said it. So did SE in that is the way they made the game (a mob will go yellow if you try and claim a second mob). It's not a matter of sucking, it's a matter of courtesy. I could easily just train all the mobs and have the brd horde lullaby them, but I don't, it's not a courteous thing to do.

[Camiie]

I bet when ypu play THF you fulltime your TH gear? removing SAM STP force them to "full time" more STP gear, all you have to do is equip it while you pet hit once then swap it (OMG you gimped yourself 1round per mob, just like THFs)

I don't play THF at all... Anyway, your point earlier seemed to be that taking something away then adding it back with gear wasn't a nerf. I countered you with the SAM example which you seem to consider would be a nerf. The BST would have to equip a specific piece of gear to regain what they lost just as the SAM would. So I ask again is the pet TH reduction a nerf or not?

[Camiie]

Ah, solo BST in dyna, I wonder if I'll still get to see them as much in the near future with their pet TH going down. I <3 coming across those guys with multiple mobs on them and they proc one and go onto the next. I just go up to the one they just proc'd when it goes yellow, WS and boom free coins without having to spend time procing for me. To all of you solo BST out there who are going to naysay my comment... get over it, you don't have the right to own multiple mobs like you think you do. To everyone else... yea, you know you <3 doing it too.

So let's say a BST has 2 mobs on him. Maybe he's being greedy or maybe he just pulled an add. You grab the add? Let's say a non-BST or party has a bunch of mobs on them for whatever reason. You grab those too?

And no, I don't <3 responding to jackassery with more of the same. Rather than vindication I still feel lousy about the whole thing.

[saevel]

So let's say a BST has 2 mobs on him. Maybe he's being greedy or maybe he just pulled an add. You grab the add? Let's say a non-BST or party has a bunch of mobs on them for whatever reason. You grab those too?

And no, I don't <3 responding to jackassery with more of the same. Rather than vindication I still feel lousy about the whole thing.

Yes I do (grabbing those excess monsters). And he's right, their not adds or links, the BST's pulled them deliberately. They keep their pet on one and they fight a second, proc the second and kill it while their pet holds the other one. Then they switch over and proc / kill the one their pet is holding. Sometimes they screw up and end up having one go yellow, and that's when I'll snatch it.

You now have hordes of BST's running around Dyna doing nothing but farming currency / +2's for selling. The new rage now is to have a dual box THF involved so they can increase their currency drops. It used to be that they stuck only to the EP's but it looks like they figured out the +2s are often worth as much as the currency, so now you got hordes of BST's with a THF or WHM mule running around the DC camps.

[Darkpearl]

I must be a petty vengeful jackass... I mean here I am killing one at a time and along comes a couple BST training all the rest of the mobs at once leaving none for anyone else. So in your mind when that happens I should have to go to the other side of the zone? I think not. People want to train a whole set of mobs? ok, just don't expect to have everyone else stand by getting nothing while you slowly kill all the mobs, I'm going to take some of them. Because I shouldn't have to go to the other side of the zone because you're a dick.



You're the one ignorant, and I said it. So did SE in that is the way they made the game (a mob will go yellow if you try and claim a second mob). It's not a matter of sucking, it's a matter of courtesy. I could easily just train all the mobs and have the brd horde lullaby them, but I don't, it's not a courteous thing to do.

So what if go yellow? You gonna claim? And then? Who the fucking care I say? As I said you are a ignorant. You talk of courtesy when you go kill mobs to other PPL that staggered? Come on kiddo, I didn't say you can't steal my mobs, I just point that there's people that leave you mobs that you aggro/linked/pulled, and some will steal, and I simply said I prefer the first one. Sure go train all the mobs you want if it make you feel better. Who the fucking cares. You are just a troll to me. No point talk with a troll. You should read what you type up... "you don't have the right to own multiple mob"... sure, because are you the owner of dyna? Mah. Anyway is out topic this discussion and I end it here.

[Scribble]

I must be a petty vengeful jackass... I mean here I am killing one at a time and along comes a couple BST training all the rest of the mobs at once leaving none for anyone else. So in your mind when that happens I should have to go to the other side of the zone? I think not. People want to train a whole set of mobs? ok, just don't expect to have everyone else stand by getting nothing while you slowly kill all the mobs, I'm going to take some of them. Because I shouldn't have to go to the other side of the zone because you're a dick.

I agree with most of this and I have a BST I frequently do dyna with. I don't really have a problem with BST fighting multiple mobs, but I do have a problem with a BST fighting multiple mobs when there is nothing else around.

If I see a BST with a few mobs, no big deal. If there are several BST all with 3-4 mobs and nothing else around I will pull one. Before anyone goes off about how much of a dick I am, realize that if you're doing this then you not only slow down your own kills, but the kills of others too.

So you can hold half a dozen mobs? Good for you. Realize that it takes you longer to kill them which slows you down and it takes the ones you're holding longer to respawn which slows everyone else including you down. Why people don't understand this is beyond me.

[Phogg]

I'm not opposed to you taking mobs off them, I just find it funny to say things like "BSTs aren't entitled to all the mobs" (i.e. they are acting selfishly and like jackasses), then following that up with "I shouldn't have to go somewhere else because me me me, so I wait for them to proc them and then kill them because I'm a jackass".

[Darkpearl]

I agree with most of this and I have a BST I frequently do dyna with. I don't really have a problem with BST fighting multiple mobs, but I do have a problem with a BST fighting multiple mobs when there is nothing else around.

If I see a BST with a few mobs, no big deal. If there are several BST all with 3-4 mobs and nothing else around I will pull one. Before anyone goes off about how much of a dick I am, realize that if you're doing this then you not only slow down your own kills, but the kills of others too.

So you can hold half a dozen mobs? Good for you. Realize that it takes you longer to kill them which slows you down and it takes the ones you're holding longer to respawn which slows everyone else including you down. Why people don't understand this is beyond me.

I can agree with this, I would pull mobs from someone with 3-4 on them, however I would pull or kill a mob staggered to a BST, that is fighting 2 mobs, unless he do this to me before. You are a asshole for grab one of the 3-4 mobs that a BST hold. NO you aren't. You are a asshole for grab 1 staggered mob from a bst that is fighting 2? I would say yes. But I usually see BST PPL max 2 mobs fight at time .

[Nynja]

Yellow is fair game. Because you are a bst does not make you unique and above the rules.

[Darkpearl]

Yellow is fair game. Because you are a bst does not make you unique and above the rules.
I know well no need to say it. But I keep say in this game there's nice ppl and asshole like him. I can understand when 3+ mobs but kill one stagger to another ppl even if fair isn't nice and isn't a act of courtesy. Of course, if this ppl did to you before, I would not regret to steal him all the mobs he turn in yellow. Else I won't care much and search another mob (again unless he hold 3+ mobs).

[Zinato]

I must be a petty vengeful jackass... I mean here I am killing one at a time and along comes a couple THF training all the rest of the mobs at once leaving none for anyone else. So in your mind when that happens I should have to go to the other side of the zone? I think not. People want to train a whole set of mobs? ok, just don't expect to have everyone else stand by getting nothing while you slowly kill all the mobs, I'm going to take some of them. Because I shouldn't have to go to the other side of the zone because you're a dick.

This is what will happen when TH is pulled, if and when BST determine it to severly change farming results.


I could easily just train all the mobs and have the brd horde lullaby them, but I don't, it's not a courteous thing to do.

Thats correct it's not courteous, and I'm glad you don't do it. Others however do, people are greedy not jobs. (the BST job was not programmed to be greedy) Rejoice and mock BST all you want, if they leave another job will take their place. (And, then you will resort to stealing the yellow mob from a THF) Your statement is "I don't like greedy competition" not "I don't like BST competition". Don't confuse the two.

[Camiie]

I'm not opposed to you taking mobs off them, I just find it funny to say things like "BSTs aren't entitled to all the mobs" (i.e. they are acting selfishly and like jackasses), then following that up with "I shouldn't have to go somewhere else because me me me, so I wait for them to proc them and then kill them because I'm a jackass".

Pretty much the whole pro-nerf argument has been loaded with hypocrisy and entitlement. I don't think people will be happy until Dynamis is back to being on a reserve system and only they can reserve it. If they weren't complaining about BSTs they'd be complaining about something or someone else. Anything that moves in on what they feel is their own personal private cash cow is going to face their wrath.

[Glamdring]

With all the mention of beast soloing in dynamis I have to say out of my 6 99 jobs, pup/dnc using the red mage auto is my most effective soloer, because it covers all 3 procs. The main reason to bring a TH job is not currency, but relic pieces and forgotten items, currency I get in plenty. I have yet to try thf/nin, but that would also be a valid 3 proc combo. However, the utility of thf/dnc seems to still trump it given the lessened time to recover HP, and getting access to JA procs faster. However, with most soloers concentrating on JA mobs, thf/nin might actually be superior due to the increased availability of targets, as few soloers target MA procced mobs. Just to throw some options out there. It just seems that procs are more important to yield than TH.

[Zinato]

It just seems that procs are more important to yield than TH.

This is a fact, not a theory. In 2 hours of kill farming (skipping procs in favor of killing speed) with TH3 I came out of Glacier with 15 shells, 4 forgotten. Over 100 kill and all yagudo, with a stray proc here and there from weaponskill, were it not for those procs I would have gotten ~4 shells. If someone wants to address conjestion and competition in Dynamis the Proc system is what needs to be address.

Also, how did the TH thread get back to Dynamis talk? Once again, Proc = Currency, BST/DNC is the most effective at procing (not TH), If BST loses TH it will not change how many enter Dynamis. What it will change is how fast they kill (Since they will need more mobs and proc to make up the difference, so they will use a stronger pet. and BTW, this is only making things worse for BST haters) and How many total times they will enter dynamis to be your competition.

[Nynja]

I know well no need to say it. But I keep say in this game there's nice ppl and asshole like him. I can understand when 3+ mobs but kill one stagger to another ppl even if fair isn't nice and isn't a act of courtesy. Of course, if this ppl did to you before, I would not regret to steal him all the mobs he turn in yellow. Else I won't care much and search another mob (again unless he hold 3+ mobs).

Why would you let a mob that you proced go yellow?

[Glamdring]

This is a fact, not a theory. In 2 hours of kill farming (skipping procs in favor of killing speed) with TH3 I came out of Glacier with 15 shells, 4 forgotten. Over 100 kill and all yagudo, with a stray proc here and there from weaponskill, were it not for those procs I would have gotten ~4 shells. If someone wants to address conjestion and competition in Dynamis the Proc system is what needs to be address.

Also, how did the TH thread get back to Dynamis talk? Once again, Proc = Currency, BST/DNC is the most effective at procing (not TH), If BST loses TH it will not change how many enter Dynamis. What it will change is how fast they kill (Since they will need more mobs and proc to make up the difference, so they will use a stronger pet. and BTW, this is only making things worse for BST haters) and How many total times they will enter dynamis to be your competition.

I was actually pointing out that many other jobs can solo dynamis effectively, and that it's procs, not TH that they need to address when they decide to solo. I just think that-protestations to the contrary-it's the the large numbers of beast soloers in there that's driving the nerf of pet TH, not some worry about "fairness". The fix for TH is-I still maintain-the need to make yields actually go up SIGNIFIGANTLY with each Tier increase, not to do away with the TH. THAT would fix the lack of desire for thieves, too; nerfing beast pets will have no effect on the current state of thief.

[Zinato]

Wasn't a shot at you, please don't take it that way. Just used the statement as a spring board to make a point. Most people here haven't read the Dynamis Conjestion thread.

In case anyone is curious its here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19709-Dynamis-Congestion

[Mageoholic]

Promoting teaming up in an MMO shame on you SE, don't you know we want to play by ourselves?

[Gingerhurricane]

I will pull one mob at a time. When the zone is empty and no one is near me, i will pull 2 cause it just ends up being quicker to be honest. Sometimes i go in and attack one mob, one links, now i proc one, both mobs are attacking pet, making which mob goes yellow automatically to the proc'd mob because pets act on the same hate scale a mob does. Then said d-bag comes and ganks it. I've never ganked a mob unless that said person ganks it from me. I'll kill it for the sake of killing it even if it isnt proc'd just to annoy someone who runs those tactics.

The job originated with a soloist and sometimes elitist mentality, but there was always a line of respect and it rarely got crossed. The only time I ever had a problem before this was back in the day where an exp pt thought they had priority over my soloing. Therefore sense of entitlement. Now those people leech'd the job to 99 with abyssea and bring the same attitude. I'll see a fellow bst with 2 mobs on him already, and he'll animated flourish the one i've been waiting on the repop for, now he has 3. When i go to get it when it's yellow, I look like the asshat.

This kinda turned into the dynamis thread instead of the pet TH. Fine. Want more currency issues solved. Make currency 100's able to be bought with a set number of allied notes and bring some campaign back to life. Coming from a true soloist with BST being my only job above 60, Doing dyna, limbus, and salvage, after that i'm literally picking my brain looking for something else to do. How i would love to do campaign and trade in notes for 100's. Makes the world go round.

[deces]

I will pull one mob at a time. When the zone is empty and no one is near me, i will pull 2 cause it just ends up being quicker to be honest. Sometimes i go in and attack one mob, one links, now i proc one, both mobs are attacking pet, making which mob goes yellow automatically to the proc'd mob because pets act on the same hate scale a mob does. Then said d-bag comes and ganks it. I've never ganked a mob unless that said person ganks it from me. I'll kill it for the sake of killing it even if it isnt proc'd just to annoy someone who runs those tactics.

The job originated with a soloist and sometimes elitist mentality, but there was always a line of respect and it rarely got crossed. The only time I ever had a problem before this was back in the day where an exp pt thought they had priority over my soloing. Therefore sense of entitlement. Now those people leech'd the job to 99 with abyssea and bring the same attitude. I'll see a fellow bst with 2 mobs on him already, and he'll animated flourish the one i've been waiting on the repop for, now he has 3. When i go to get it when it's yellow, I look like the asshat.

[QUOTE=Gingerhurricane;276112]This kinda turned into the dynamis thread instead of the pet TH. Fine. Want more currency issues solved. Make currency 100's able to be bought with a set number of allied notes and bring some campaign back to life. Coming from a true soloist with BST being my only job above 60, Doing dyna, limbus, and salvage, after that i'm literally picking my brain looking for something else to do. How i would love to do campaign and trade in notes for 100's. Makes the world go round.
Ive been saying this for years, about being able to convert allied notes for relic currency.

[Camate]

Greetings!

Since we have seen some comments related to Dynamis for this discussion about the effect of Treasure Hunter amongst jobs, first I would like to respond to this.

The aforementioned adjustment is not geared towards specific content, as jobs adjustments are considered to have large effects on everything. Regardless of the existing content, we are considering the case of adding new content in the future and decided it was necessary to re-examine the guidelines and make adjustments.

Continuing on, here are some comments in regards to some feedback we have received.

Faithful Falcorr
Since this is a thief-type pet, many of you were hoping for a strong Treasure Hunter effect and we apologize deeply for lowering the effect. We will be looking into adjustments for Falcorr so that this pet can be utilized differently than Yuly and increase the amount of time it is called for, in addition to the previously mentioned recipe changes.

Selection between battle capability of pets/Treasure Hunter
This was an exploration of where the beastmaster job has been placed; a job that focuses on fighting alongside a pet, or a job that focuses on Treasure Hunter. We felt that the former was much more fitting and believe that you all feel the same. Based on this decision, we began to look into adjustments of the benefits of Treasure Hunter. Of course, this doesn’t mean that Treasure Hunter is impermissible as a means of support for pets, and the effect itself will remain intact.

Exploration of attack aspects
Finally, the current focus of this adjustment was Treasure Hunter and adjustments to attack aspects is a different thing to look into. The equation isn’t as simple as saying if a pet has a high value of TH, then attack power will not be raised, and we will be continuing to make necessary adjustments while making the most of each job’s strengths.

[Vivik]

The aforementioned adjustment is not geared towards specific content, as jobs adjustments are considered to have large effects on everything. Regardless of the existing content, we are considering the case of adding new content in the future and decided it was necessary to re-examine the guidelines and make adjustments.


I could almost believe that if it were not for the Miser's Roll adjustment. Making a roll basically useful for only one event. It would be awesome if the dev team would not contradict itself in the reasoning for "adjustments".

I'm starting to not believe a thing that comes down the pipe here because the lack of effort in making adjustments is obvious. Nothing against you personally Camate but this kind of "don't care" response from the dev team is getting old, fast.

[deces]

.

Exploration of attack aspects
Finally, the current focus of this adjustment was Treasure Hunter and adjustments to attack aspects is a different thing to look into. The equation isn’t as simple as saying if a pet has a high value of TH, then attack power will not be raised, and we will be continuing to make necessary adjustments while making the most of each job’s strengths.

And what is so high about treasure hunter III for a thief?

[Disifer]

Just from eyeballing both TH pets, its somewhat obvious to me that each has its own niche even tho both being TH pets. Both have same TH, one has extremely high evasion and a lower attack than the other (dipper = higher eva) It would make more sense i think to most of us that Falcor would be lowered to TH2 and Dipper to 1. Sacrificing survivability of one pet compared to the higher TH of another. You can toss Dipper on most mobs and he/she is rarely touched, even on EM-VT content it has great survivability aspects, where Falcor gets tossed around like a cheap date on those types of mobs. Falcor seems to have a higher att, better TP moves and a better triple attack rate.

Would is be possible to stick the less survivable pet with a higher TH while sacrificing it's survivability. As of now, the difference between using pets is minimal, TH is the same. If you lower both to TH1, the difference will still be the same. Normally i would personally use Dipper on an extremely hard mob cause TH is the same and he evades more. I might change my mind if falcor had a higher TH. Maybe i wouldn't due to the fact that falcor wouldnt be able to survive the fight and leave me running for my life. Just sayin....

[SpankWustler]

It still strikes me as weird that the Development Bros didn't decide to make higher tiers of Treasure Hunter, and the kill-speed sacrificed to achieve them, worthwhile. This change strongly indicates they're well-aware of how little the higher tiers do.



Faithful Falcorr
Since this is a thief-type pet, many of you were hoping for a strong Treasure Hunter effect and we apologize deeply for lowering the effect. We will be looking into adjustments for Falcorr so that this pet can be utilized differently than Yuly and increase the amount of time it is called for, in addition to the previously mentioned recipe changes.

...

Exploration of attack aspects
Finally, the current focus of this adjustment was Treasure Hunter and adjustments to attack aspects is a different thing to look into. The equation isn’t as simple as saying if a pet has a high value of TH, then attack power will not be raised, and we will be continuing to make necessary adjustments while making the most of each job’s strengths.

These bits are interesting. Considering how little Treasure Hunter contributes in today's heavily !!-focused FFXI, I'd prefer a stronger, cheaper, more unique pet over a pet with more Treasure Hunter.

Of course, what I'm actually going to get is a pet that's 5,000 Gil cheaper per stack and lasts 30 minutes longer than it will ever possibly live. Still, hope was the last thing to climb out of Pandora's box and I like to make it feel special sometimes.

[Rohelius]

Okay first of all i think i understand what hes trying to say.

The Dev team thought Beastmaster was using THF pets too much and thus turning into a Farming job rather then a "Attacker with Pet" Job.

I would like to know who says what a job cant and can not do in this game, because when Ninja was used as a tank rather then the "Attacker" it was intended to be you guys were so cool with it and embraced the whole concept but now that the player base again chooses a way to utilize a job to best suit their needs you turn into some puritan ideologists.

I mean really? you want us to be "Attackers" but you give us a good for nothing "Mascot" toad that has no real Attack potential instead of a much more needed and asked for Scorpion or Wyvern or just about anything else that doesn't suck.

You want to make us a mascot?
1- Make it so we can call at least that one single pet in town.
2- Make its non-existent Ready moves be some type of pet emotes. Backflip or Croac anyone?

Those two things should make that thing more if not very desirable, you do those things you got a Realmascot.

As for the Attacker thing i really don't know how else to explain it to you guys because its your game you made it so it's hard for me to understand how you can create something like the "Sub Job" system and its mechanics and totally miss the concept of different Pet Jugs being good at doing different things...

I use Falcorr/Yuli a lot because of these simple facts.
1- I need to farm and Treasure Hunter3 is there.
2- I need to kill something and evasion tank is easier on the pocket then one i have to constantly heal for Gil.
3- My job has always been a solo job, so its nice to be able to have the selection of pets with the traits i need for any given situation my job needs to adjust to, Like soloing something but still wanting the drop from it with no BLM proc or THF with TH+7.
4- It just so happens that evasion tanks are better for most things plain and simple. Which is why that tanking job you guys made needs to be looked at.. whats that jobs name... Hmmm.. Ninja... No. is it THF or DRK nope.. Ah yes! its name is Paladin and i think it used to tank decently before Abyssea came out, but now its like an endangered species. {Please check it.}
4- The last thing is a sum of it all really,
Pet that can survive and not get hit a lot = Easy on the pocket.
Pet that can help with the drop rate = Easy on the pocket.
Pet with triple attack that can paralyze and terrorize makes a very good Attacker pet.

So the reason we use Falcorr and Yuli more then any other pet is because being THF pet's they have this neat triple attack thing which squeezes a lot of damage in between attack rounds, they also have really good evasion which makes the jug last longer and the things have Treasure Hunter 3 too! which makes the stupid high cost of them and the fact that my ability to Charm is now obsolete in the areas of Endgame. more affordable, not to mention the fact that i have to pay to heal these things too!!!

Are you going to take Gooey Gerard's DEF away to make Paladin look like a better Job choice...........?

[Zinato]

It still strikes me as weird that the Development Bros didn't decide to make higher tiers of Treasure Hunter, and the kill-speed sacrificed to achieve them, worthwhile. This change strongly indicates they're well-aware of how little the higher tiers do.



These bits are interesting. Considering how little Treasure Hunter contributes in today's heavily !!-focused FFXI, I'd prefer a stronger, cheaper, more unique pet over a pet with more Treasure Hunter.

Of course, what I'm actually going to get is a pet that's 5,000 Gil cheaper per stack and lasts 30 minutes longer than it will ever possibly live. Still, hope was the last thing to climb out of Pandora's box and I like to make it feel special sometimes.

I miss your old signature. I always imagined your taru face on the guy, and that it was that person speaking.

[Disifer]

Can we augment balance rings with "Pet Treasure Hunter +1"? Wear two and get th3 again

[Camiie]

Can we augment balance rings with "Pet Treasure Hunter +1"? Wear two and get th3 again

No, because that would place BST too high on their new Treasure Hunter Hierarchy List. Don't forget it's now supposed to be:

1. THF
2. RNG (Bounty Shot)
3. JOB/THF
4. Anyone else

After the nerf, giving BST even one piece of Pet:TH+1 gear would tie them with THF SJ. Even doing that upsets this list. I can't really see them doing anything more. As much as I hate it, we're never going to be able to earn back exactly what we lost if they stick to this strategy.

It's interesting that Camate brought up other events and said it's not all about Dynamis. So, where, in the devs' eyes was the imbalance? Is it simply the fact that BST had that much TH at all? Were too many scrolls being farmed in Castle O? Were BSTs collecting too many seals in Abyssea? Is it primarily, just not entirely, Dynamis? I wouldn't think VW or WoE would be affected by TH at all since the loot comes from chests. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is this change coming ahead of future content that will rely heavily on TH?

When nerfs or adjustments are made, it's kinda nice to know why. I know it's not always a good idea to go into detail lest some exploit be revealed, but it's also not good to just say it's for balance.

Since this is being taken from BST, are there going to be any adjustments to make BST more large event friendly or will there perhaps a small boost to our solo ability? Yes, I do have the nerve to ask such things.

[Gallus]

Dev team once again proves they're a buncha jerks that can't seem to grasp that the players want to have fun playing - not feel like they're working. Sorry for the adjustment? Psh. Then don't do it.

Here's a idea:
Increase THF damage potential.
Bounty Shot recast lowered.
Sub THF can now proc TH bonus at 50% the success of a THF main.
BST pets maintain the THF AND we'll give Falcor a damage boost.

Problem solved.

Yeah, being nice to the player base is way too hard. Get a friggen clue. I hope the entire team eventually gets canned.

And yeah, this message will never make it to the devs because no one at S-E truly seems to care.

[Catmato]

Can we augment balance rings with "Pet Treasure Hunter +1"? Wear two and get th3 again

Hopefully it'll be a low damage lv70 axe.

[SpankWustler]

I miss your old signature. I always imagined your taru face on the guy, and that it was that person speaking.

I always imagined that Andrew WK was eating Cheetos and Peanuts for breakfast because he was working on the Afterglow trial for his Relic Piano. That made me feel kind of sad after a while, because I like Andrew WK.