Treasure Hunter Effect Amongst Jobs

[Nynja]

Hopefully it'll be a low damage lv70 axe.

And I bet they'll rage about the injustice of having to use such a garbage weapon, and then tell the thieves its their problem for not telling SE about the inadequacies of the thief's knife and bst's shouldnt have to suffer over it.

oh (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/13514-A-Simple-Request-from-Thieves-An-upgrade-to-Thief-s-Knife.) .. wait (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17000-Thief-s-knife-upgrade)

[SpankWustler]

Hopefully it'll be a low damage lv70 axe.

Given that I've seen more than one person wielding the mighty axe of the fabled lizard-warrior Zoraal Ja, I do not imagine even the Development Bros could make a weapon awful enough to negatively affect those folks.

[Pebe]

A little off topic but, this seems like a good place to put this:
Sqaure's New Hierachy of TH is THF >> RNG >> /THF >> others now right? Well, it has always bugged that rng was given TH to begin with. SE's logic makes no sense. Why give bounty shot to rng when you could have given it to COR, the PIRATE job. Pirate is related to THF much more than ranger is. Although this is not neccessarily a complaint because if COR got bounty shot, rng would probably have gotten triple shot, and I love my triple shot on cor. Just SE's logic makes my brain hurt. On another note... TH roll anyone?

[Nynja]

Because cor doesnt have enough...if anything SE would give to sam first because SE <3<3<3<3<3 SAM

[Karbuncle]

Hopefully it'll be a low damage lv70 axe.

This Sentence. it seems familiar to me

Edit:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20384-Say-it-is-only-a-rumor...please?p=272748#post272748

We think a like.

[Vandheer]

Okay first of all i think i understand what hes trying to say.

The Dev team thought Beastmaster was using THF pets too much and thus turning into a Farming job rather then a "Attacker with Pet" Job.

I would like to know who says what a job cant and can not do in this game, because when Ninja was used as a tank rather then the "Attacker" it was intended to be you guys were so cool with it and embraced the whole concept but now that the player base again chooses a way to utilize a job to best suit their needs you turn into some puritan ideologists.

I mean really? you want us to be "Attackers" but you give us a good for nothing "Mascot" toad that has no real Attack potential instead of a much more needed and asked for Scorpion or Wyvern or just about anything else that doesn't suck.

You want to make us a mascot?
1- Make it so we can call at least that one single pet in town.
2- Make its non-existent Ready moves be some type of pet emotes. Backflip or Croac anyone?

Those two things should make that thing more if not very desirable, you do those things you got a Realmascot.

As for the Attacker thing i really don't know how else to explain it to you guys because its your game you made it so it's hard for me to understand how you can create something like the "Sub Job" system and its mechanics and totally miss the concept of different Pet Jugs being good at doing different things...

I use Falcorr/Yuli a lot because of these simple facts.
1- I need to farm and Treasure Hunter3 is there.
2- I need to kill something and evasion tank is easier on the pocket then one i have to constantly heal for Gil.
3- My job has always been a solo job, so its nice to be able to have the selection of pets with the traits i need for any given situation my job needs to adjust to, Like soloing something but still wanting the drop from it with no BLM proc or THF with TH+7.
4- It just so happens that evasion tanks are better for most things plain and simple. Which is why that tanking job you guys made needs to be looked at.. whats that jobs name... Hmmm.. Ninja... No. is it THF or DRK nope.. Ah yes! its name is Paladin and i think it used to tank decently before Abyssea came out, but now its like an endangered species. {Please check it.}
4- The last thing is a sum of it all really,
Pet that can survive and not get hit a lot = Easy on the pocket.
Pet that can help with the drop rate = Easy on the pocket.
Pet with triple attack that can paralyze and terrorize makes a very good Attacker pet.

So the reason we use Falcorr and Yuli more then any other pet is because being THF pet's they have this neat triple attack thing which squeezes a lot of damage in between attack rounds, they also have really good evasion which makes the jug last longer and the things have Treasure Hunter 3 too! which makes the stupid high cost of them and the fact that my ability to Charm is now obsolete in the areas of Endgame. more affordable, not to mention the fact that i have to pay to heal these things too!!!

Are you going to take Gooey Gerard's DEF away to make Paladin look like a better Job choice...........?

This explains my thoughts perfectly. Props Rohelius. On top of everything stated I would also like to know why the Beast TH pets have to be nerfed. What was the "Game Threatening" issue the dev team is trying to fix Camate? Tell us Camate the dev team wont mind.... :)

[Zinato]

The one thing I never understood was the need for such even balance. And by that I mean all melee are interchangable, all healers and so on. FFXI isn't PVP in the traditional sense and unlike other MMOs players can change Jobs at will. (thats not to say, Oh go level X job for X purpose I know that would be annoying) But, the fact players can pick 2-3 jobs and do just about anything, and rarely does an in game enemy need X and Y exact set-up. (which isn't really balances fault its the devs building a whacky NM) Why is it balance has to be measured by a leveling device?

[Savlyn]

A little off topic but, this seems like a good place to put this:
SE's logic makes no sense. Why give bounty shot to rng when you could have given it to COR, the PIRATE job. Pirate is related to THF much more than ranger is.

The joke during the time this was implemented was that they accidentally got it switched (RNG JA for COR JA, and vica versa)... and afterward just shrugged and left it. /sigh

[Catmato]

We think a like.

I think I subconsciously stole it after reading it when it was posted.

[Habiki]

No, because that would place BST too high on their new Treasure Hunter Hierarchy List. Don't forget it's now supposed to be:

1. THF
2. RNG (Bounty Shot)
3. JOB/THF
4. Anyone else

After the nerf, giving BST even one piece of Pet:TH+1 gear would tie them with THF SJ. Even doing that upsets this list. I can't really see them doing anything more. As much as I hate it, we're never going to be able to earn back exactly what we lost if they stick to this strategy.

It's interesting that Camate brought up other events and said it's not all about Dynamis. So, where, in the devs' eyes was the imbalance? Is it simply the fact that BST had that much TH at all? Were too many scrolls being farmed in Castle O? Were BSTs collecting too many seals in Abyssea? Is it primarily, just not entirely, Dynamis? I wouldn't think VW or WoE would be affected by TH at all since the loot comes from chests. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is this change coming ahead of future content that will rely heavily on TH?

When nerfs or adjustments are made, it's kinda nice to know why. I know it's not always a good idea to go into detail lest some exploit be revealed, but it's also not good to just say it's for balance.

Since this is being taken from BST, are there going to be any adjustments to make BST more large event friendly or will there perhaps a small boost to our solo ability? Yes, I do have the nerve to ask such things.

I bet if anything the list gos more like this.

1. THF
2. RNG (Bounty Shot)
3. JOB/THF
4. Pets
5. Blue Mage

Since everyone of our tier 1 traits are far from the potency of the real trait values that every other job gets.

[Metaking]

well unless se puts out the th pet item with the patch blu will be above pets, and also not all of are traits are weaker att+ def+(lol) refresh triple attack, and even if are th is only half as effective we got a belt with th+1 on it so........ 1.5 th goooooooooo

[Kristal]

BST's have had their say.. can it be time for PUPs and SMNs to rejoice now?


※The current focus of this adjustment is for familiar pets, but in the future if automatons and avatars are given Treasure Hunter, we will be adopting the same policy.

I'm guessing/hoping a Metal Detector attachment for automaton, and Cait Sith for SMN! And that Pet: TH+ is put on an earring slot.

[Sp1cyryan]

An issue was discovered in which the Beastmaster job was inadvertently made effective. This issue will be addressed in a future content update.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.

If I went through and quoted all the silly, complaining, whining, dumb posts in this thread I would be here all week. That being said I honestly hope the Dev team has learned to ignore 90% of the posts on the forum.

TH does not make a job effective. Did no one ever play THF a few years ago? Remember that old "hey go hit the mob and stand around so you dont lolfeedthemobTP" deal they had?

RNG gets its own brand of TH and then can later up the level of TH - Everyone yawns.
BLU gets TH1 from setting spells - Everyone yawns
BST pets get lowered to a base of TH1 with the mention of TH+gear for pets? - 'HOLY SH!T OMGWTFBBQ I AM QUITING THIS GAME SE STINKS BLAH BLAH CHICKEN LITTLE THE MTHFKNG SKY IS FALLIN' OH LAWDY LAWD! SAVE US!'

As if TH was even something that mattered to BST. As if people started leveling BST over THF for TH. As if TH was a focus of BST. As if this is a significant event in the first place. As if Dynamis will suddenly end and be empty without every Perle BST and their mother running around with a Dipper or Falcorr.

[Camiie]

If I went through and quoted all the silly, complaining, whining, dumb posts in this thread I would be here all week. That being said I honestly hope the Dev team has learned to ignore 90% of the posts on the forum.

You mean the ones that disagree with your opinions right?



TH does not make a job effective. Did no one ever play THF a few years ago? Remember that old "hey go hit the mob and stand around so you dont lolfeedthemobTP" deal they had?

BST is regarded as a soloer. TH makes soloing for gear/items more effective.



RNG gets its own brand of TH and then can later up the level of TH - Everyone yawns.
BLU gets TH1 from setting spells - Everyone yawns
BST pets get lowered to a base of TH1 with the mention of TH+gear for pets? - 'HOLY SH!T OMGWTFBBQ I AM QUITING THIS GAME SE STINKS BLAH BLAH CHICKEN LITTLE THE MTHFKNG SKY IS FALLIN' OH LAWDY LAWD! SAVE US!'


I didn't see that post, could you link it for me?



As if TH was even something that mattered to BST.

It does matter since it's an ability our pets were given.



As if people started leveling BST over THF for TH. As if TH was a focus of BST. As if this is a significant event in the first place. As if Dynamis will suddenly end and be empty without every Perle BST and their mother running around with a Dipper or Falcorr.

I leveled BST for fun and solo ability. When they added pets with TH they added to that for me. Taking it away subtracts from those aspects. Yes having TH and potentially getting whatever I'm after faster is a nice bonus to both.



BST's have had their say.. can it be time for PUPs and SMNs to rejoice now?

I'm guessing/hoping a Metal Detector attachment for automaton, and Cait Sith for SMN! And that Pet: TH+ is put on an earring slot.

I'd die from shock if they gave something even slightly beneficial to SMN. I don't know if that's extra incentive for them to do it or not. Good luck to the PUPs though!

[Mavrick]

If I went through and quoted all the silly, complaining, whining, dumb posts in this thread I would be here all week. That being said I honestly hope the Dev team has learned to ignore 90% of the posts on the forum.

TH does not make a job effective. Did no one ever play THF a few years ago? Remember that old "hey go hit the mob and stand around so you dont lolfeedthemobTP" deal they had?

RNG gets its own brand of TH and then can later up the level of TH - Everyone yawns.
BLU gets TH1 from setting spells - Everyone yawns
BST pets get lowered to a base of TH1 with the mention of TH+gear for pets? - 'HOLY SH!T OMGWTFBBQ I AM QUITING THIS GAME SE STINKS BLAH BLAH CHICKEN LITTLE THE MTHFKNG SKY IS FALLIN' OH LAWDY LAWD! SAVE US!'

As if TH was even something that mattered to BST. As if people started leveling BST over THF for TH. As if TH was a focus of BST. As if this is a significant event in the first place. As if Dynamis will suddenly end and be empty without every Perle BST and their mother running around with a Dipper or Falcorr.

Obviously you do not play BST (or maybe you do but you're clueless), otherwise you would've known why THF pets are so popular among BST (hint: it was because of a certain trait). No, BST aren't going to die because of this, career bst aren't Q.Q'n about this or preparing to quit the game, but do try to realize that nerfing a trait on a pet where the trait is the main reason for using the pet in the first place (warranted or not) is a pretty big deal.

It's pretty useless trying to explain the mechanics of BST to someone who has most likely never touched the job and just seems to have just jumped on the bandwagon of people foaming at the mouth in anticipation of a bst nerf because they think it will clear dyanmis of all the perle/pink BSTs. Take a look at all the level 76+ jug pets BST has access to (~15 of them)... Wonder why you rarely see BST (who actually know what they're doing) running around with raptors, Lizards, Apkallu, lolfrog, leeches, flytrap, Fungar, Eft, Coeurl, Mandy, Fly, Lynx, Adamantoise, ect pets? Because those pets are generally useless. They have no defining traits, abilities and/or have low attack power and they fail to stand out over pets like slug, Rabbit, and Tiger.

The main reason why BST use Dipper, Falcorr is for TH (you would know this if you played BST). Sure, those pets have other uses, such as evasion or wind resistance, but Treasure Hunter is the the main reason to use those pets. If BST didn't care about Treasure Hunter (as you suggested) why the hell would they be forking out 80-100k for a stack of these jugs that sell 15~25 stacks daily? The only other pet that cost more is Adamantoise at 300k/stack and they are no where near as popular (you would know why if you played BST) ...

Top this off with the fiasco of the Jug pet poll (once again you would know this if you played bst) where Scorpion (DD pet) clearly had more votes but Falcorr (who didn't even make the top 3) won the votes any way because the developers either ignored the poll or used some sort of strange counting mechanism to skew the polls so JPs would get Falcorr (THF) which is now being nerfed for the sole reason why JPs voted for him in the first place (ie: Treasure Hunter) Then they turned around gave us a completely useless mascot pet (the frog) and the incredibly weak and useless Apkallu, where a stronger DD/Utilitly pet such as Scorpion, Kraken, Dhalmel, Ruszor, or even Slime (which I'm not to fond of) would've been light years ahead in usefulness even if they were toned down.

Treasure Hunter(I) isn't going to be the death of the BST job, nor do I see career BST rallying with torches and pitchforks Q.Q'ng about how they plan to quit because of this update (Take a look at the BST forum where CAREER bst hang out. ) Personally I do not think the nerf is merited but I do not see it being a big deal. Just wanted to point out to the bandwagoners and the clueless that TH was only a big deal for these 2 Pets, not the BST job as a whole, since some people cannot seem to tell the difference.

[primel]

hi bst friends, im jpn player ('-')/

Oh my gods, what shall we do for this crazy adjustments?
In japanese forums, over 700+ replies...

"Treasure Hunter Effect Amongst Jobs" written by Mocchi, jpn modelator.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20369
Too many questions and a criticisms, but only ONE reply from square-enix.

Why we all bsts are persecuted as usual?
I like solo playing and Im an adventurer...

Primel, jpn solo bst... dont have other Lv99 jobs and no abys expansion.
--
sorry for my poor english (*^^*)

[deces]

Obviously you do not play BST (or maybe you do but you're clueless), otherwise you would've known why THF pets are so popular among BST (hint: it was because of a certain trait). No, BST aren't going to die because of this, career bst aren't Q.Q'n about this or preparing to quit the game, but do try to realize that nerfing a trait on a pet where the trait is the main reason for using the pet in the first place (warranted or not) is a pretty big deal.

It's pretty useless trying to explain the mechanics of BST to someone who has most likely never touched the job and just seems to have just jumped on the bandwagon of people foaming at the mouth in anticipation of a bst nerf because they think it will clear dyanmis of all the perle/pink BSTs. Take a look at all the level 76+ jug pets BST has access to (~15 of them)... Wonder why you rarely see BST (who actually know what they're doing) running around with raptors, Lizards, Apkallu, lolfrog, leeches, flytrap, Fungar, Eft, Coeurl, Mandy, Fly, Lynx, Adamantoise, ect pets? Because those pets are generally useless. They have no defining traits, abilities and/or have low attack power and they fail to stand out over pets like slug, Rabbit, and Tiger.

The main reason why BST use Dipper, Falcorr is for TH (you would know this if you played BST). Sure, those pets have other uses, such as evasion or wind resistance, but Treasure Hunter is the the main reason to use those pets. If BST didn't care about Treasure Hunter (as you suggested) why the hell would they be forking out 80-100k for a stack of these jugs that sell 15~25 stacks daily? The only other pet that cost more is Adamantoise at 300k/stack and they are no where near as popular (you would know why if you played BST) ...

Top this off with the fiasco of the Jug pet poll (once again you would know this if you played bst) where Scorpion (DD pet) clearly had more votes but Falcorr (who didn't even make the top 3) won the votes any way because the developers either ignored the poll or used some sort of strange counting mechanism to skew the polls so JPs would get Falcorr (THF) which is now being nerfed for the sole reason why JPs voted for him in the first place (ie: Treasure Hunter) Then they turned around gave us a completely useless mascot pet (the frog) and the incredibly weak and useless Apkallu, where a stronger DD/Utilitly pet such as Scorpion, Kraken, Dhalmel, Ruszor, or even Slime (which I'm not to fond of) would've been light years ahead in usefulness even if they were toned down.

Treasure Hunter(I) isn't going to be the death of the BST job, nor do I see career BST rallying with torches and pitchforks Q.Q'ng about how they plan to quit because of this update (Take a look at the BST forum where CAREER bst hang out. ) Personally I do not think the nerf is merited but I do not see it being a big deal. Just wanted to point out to the bandwagoners and the clueless that TH was only a big deal for these 2 Pets, not the BST job as a whole, since some people cannot seem to tell the difference.

Well played, sir.

[Spiritreaver]

BST's have had their say.. can it be time for PUPs and SMNs to rejoice now?



I'm guessing/hoping a Metal Detector attachment for automaton, and Cait Sith for SMN! And that Pet: TH+ is put on an earring slot.

SMN is already getting Cait Sith.....at some point.

And at the bold, in short - No.

[Annalise]

Finally, people will stop inviting BSTs over THF for treasure hunter. Wait...

[Sp1cyryan]

Obviously you do not play BST (or maybe you do but you're clueless), otherwise you would've known why THF pets are so popular among BST (hint: it was because of a certain trait). No, BST aren't going to die because of this, career bst aren't Q.Q'n about this or preparing to quit the game, but do try to realize that nerfing a trait on a pet where the trait is the main reason for using the pet in the first place (warranted or not) is a pretty big deal.

It's pretty useless trying to explain the mechanics of BST to someone who has most likely never touched the job and just seems to have just jumped on the bandwagon of people foaming at the mouth in anticipation of a bst nerf because they think it will clear dyanmis of all the perle/pink BSTs. Take a look at all the level 76+ jug pets BST has access to (~15 of them)... Wonder why you rarely see BST (who actually know what they're doing) running around with raptors, Lizards, Apkallu, lolfrog, leeches, flytrap, Fungar, Eft, Coeurl, Mandy, Fly, Lynx, Adamantoise, ect pets? Because those pets are generally useless. They have no defining traits, abilities and/or have low attack power and they fail to stand out over pets like slug, Rabbit, and Tiger.

The main reason why BST use Dipper, Falcorr is for TH (you would know this if you played BST). Sure, those pets have other uses, such as evasion or wind resistance, but Treasure Hunter is the the main reason to use those pets. If BST didn't care about Treasure Hunter (as you suggested) why the hell would they be forking out 80-100k for a stack of these jugs that sell 15~25 stacks daily? The only other pet that cost more is Adamantoise at 300k/stack and they are no where near as popular (you would know why if you played BST) ...

Top this off with the fiasco of the Jug pet poll (once again you would know this if you played bst) where Scorpion (DD pet) clearly had more votes but Falcorr (who didn't even make the top 3) won the votes any way because the developers either ignored the poll or used some sort of strange counting mechanism to skew the polls so JPs would get Falcorr (THF) which is now being nerfed for the sole reason why JPs voted for him in the first place (ie: Treasure Hunter) Then they turned around gave us a completely useless mascot pet (the frog) and the incredibly weak and useless Apkallu, where a stronger DD/Utilitly pet such as Scorpion, Kraken, Dhalmel, Ruszor, or even Slime (which I'm not to fond of) would've been light years ahead in usefulness even if they were toned down.

Treasure Hunter(I) isn't going to be the death of the BST job, nor do I see career BST rallying with torches and pitchforks Q.Q'ng about how they plan to quit because of this update (Take a look at the BST forum where CAREER bst hang out. ) Personally I do not think the nerf is merited but I do not see it being a big deal. Just wanted to point out to the bandwagoners and the clueless that TH was only a big deal for these 2 Pets, not the BST job as a whole, since some people cannot seem to tell the difference.

You really love BST. You know how I know?

No, go ahead, and take a guess.

You seemed to enjoy going on a tangent that mostly was not direct to what I was even talking about.

But, fight on dear beast champion of truth and justice with your over eagerness. By all means paint me as someone who knows nothing of BST and has never touched it. Starting your post off with that really makes me believe you be a very creditable person right out of the gate.

So do we reach the point where we talk about how these forums are about how every job wants everything and to be the best?

Too soon?

[Bookong]

TH1 is still > TH0, So BST is viable, You'll just get slightly less drops.

This.

[QUOTE=Xilk;272941]BST pet treasure hunter gear will all come from top tier new Voidwatch of course!

Please gods no. please make a funky magian trial that involves proccing intimidation on mobs with correlation from pets, or something equally strange and bst-like. things that can be done in the older content areas that could provide accessibility to a wider playerbase. i would put the time in for a th+ piece.

i really dig the idea of something like it for other pet jobs.

[Nynja]

I think the pet:TH+ item should be a lv70 weapon with garbage stats other than pet:TH

[Louispv]

I think the pet:TH+ item should be a lv70 weapon with garbage stats other than pet:TH

And I think you should stop being a butthurt little baby that wants to make everyone else suffer because your job is useless. I seriously do not understand how you have gone years suggesting that every job in the game be nerfed, rather than demanding THF actually be made useful.

[Vivik]

I think the pet:TH+ item should be a lv70 weapon with garbage stats other than pet:TH

Should have been a DRK.

[Nynja]

And I think you should stop being a butthurt little baby that wants to make everyone else suffer because your job is useless. I seriously do not understand how you have gone years suggesting that every job in the game be nerfed, rather than demanding THF actually be made useful.

Still upset I jacked a couple of your yellow mobs? BAWWWWWWWWWWWWW

And the irony in the bolded part. The only reason bst got useful in the past 5 months was because of blatantly ripping off thief's defining job trait (AND NO ITS NOT FKN STEAL), and now youre butthurt its being taken away. BAWWWWWWWWWW

[Zirael]

Still upset I jacked a couple of your yellow mobs? BAWWWWWWWWWWWWW

You Thief, how could yooooooo!!!11 ;(
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/clz4l.jpg

[Daniel_Hatcher]

THF's need to chill out. It's no other jobs fault that SE are neglecting you.

[Rohelius]

I am happy about this change.. i see no reason why BST (or their pets) should have the same base TH like a THF lv 90... (and just because the Pet is a THF dosnt mean they should be like a player THF..)

the number of BST in Dynamis wont change much, maybe the lolperleBST (and those lolauroreBST o.O) wont be so many anymore because they feel gimped, but real BST will still get alot of currencys solo, simply because they can kill fast.

Thief gets Treasure Hunter 7, Pet Jugs gets Treasure Hunter 3 you think that's not fair?
If you do its not for the sacredness of the THF's place in a party as the Loot Whore, its because gimpy THF's dont want to get off their asses and get those extra items to make them more useful in a party then pet.

So please don't come in here preaching about THF's rights when the reason it seems fair to you is because you or your friends gimpy ass THF in full Aurore and dual Yataghans is being out shined by a pet because your too lazy to get those extra items to make your Loot whore job a little less gimp. here's some constructive info noobs...

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071031021028/ffxi/images/8/84/Thiefs_Knife.png

Sozu Rogberry (NM) LVL65-66! Area:Temple of Uggalepih

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100919205207/ffxi/images/c/c6/Raider%27s_Poulaines_%2B2.png

Trial of the Magians
Trial 4261 (Upgraded from Raider's Poulaines +1 w/ 6 Jewel of Voyage )


http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111214233259/ffxi/images/0/08/AssArmlets%2B2.png

Obtain 50 Forgotten Touch to upgrade to Assassin's Armlets +2.

You think its stupid that non THF job has Treasure Hunter 3? well then if these jobs /THF and equip this piece of equipment...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070626192256/ffxi/images/9/98/Tarutaru-Sash.png

Gold Sturdy Pyxis

Area: Abyssea - La Theine Potential Augments...



HP +3~10
INT +1~4
MND +1~3
CHR +1~3
Gilfinder +0~3
Treasure Hunter +1 :O!!!!!!!!! And BST cant equip :O!!!!!

And these aren't some "Pet's" these are players with TH-2 +1...

[Neisan_Quetz]

If higher tiers of TH were actually worth having, then you'd have a point. Unfortunately, they're not by a large enough margin, and SE deems nerfs easier than actually fixes.

[deces]

If higher tiers of TH were actually worth having, then you'd have a point. Unfortunately, they're not by a large enough margin, and SE deems nerfs easier than actually fixes.

PROC......

[Rohelius]

The point is THF has higher Treasure Hunter. I don't care if its weak by their standards, its stronger then the one pets have and if its the fact that it is weak making them butt hurt about it, then its not Beastmasters problem. We have pets with different traits for a reason and farming pet is just another reason to have a pet like that.
This reasoning is about as insane as taking away RDM's Cure and Nuke spells to make BLM and WHM more "signature" jobs.

Hey SE you want to take something from a job to define it better? take away DRK nuke spell list.

[Nynja]

wow youre an idiot

[Louispv]

Still upset I jacked a couple of your yellow mobs? BAWWWWWWWWWWWWW

No, I'm pissed that you've been doing nothing but bitching, in almost every thread you've ever entered, that every job should be nerfed because THF is worthless.

That every DD job should be nerfed because they do more damage than your THF.

That the game should be shut down because they made Thief's knife easier to get than a cure for cancer.

That DRg and BST should be nerfed because they got hate control abilities.

That dynamis should go back to the way it used to be, because you were dumb enough to get a mandau back before the adjustments.

That Mythic and Empyrian weapons should be nerfed, because they're better than the mandau you wasted your time making back in the day.

That DNC should be nerfed because they were given triple attack and sneak attack.

That RNG should be nerfed because they took your precious TH.

You do absolutely nothing but demand everyone else should be brought down to your level, instead of making THF actually useful.


And the irony in the bolded part. The only reason bst got useful in the past 5 months was because of blatantly ripping off thief's defining job trait (AND NO ITS NOT FKN STEAL), and now youre butthurt its being taken away. BAWWWWWWWWWW
I've been a BST since 2 years after the release of the game. I didn't level it for TH.

Also, yes, the defining trait of THF IS Steal.
Thief
noun, plural thieves.
a person who steals, especially secretly or without open force; one guilty of theft or larceny. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/thief)

It can't possibly be treasure hunter. If it were TH, then, according to you, even after this adjustment, 10 of the 20 jobs have the same strength TH as a THF does. If literally half the jobs in the game are just as good as you at something, it's not your defining trait.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Steal can't be thf's defining trait, it's too overpowered for aura steal to be put on a separate timer

[SpankWustler]

Steal can't be thf's defining trait, it's too overpowered for aura steal to be put on a separate timer

Particularly if the Thief in question has merits in Aura Steal.

[Nynja]

http://pawsru.org/paws/thumb/paws4498_u-mad1s.jpg

[Annalise]

So next are we going to decide that BST WAR jugs cannot have fencer because their level of fencer is the same as WAR, and higher than other jobs? And the Apkallu jug is a monk with native store tp, double attack, and triple attack. Does he need to be 'nerfed' too? Especially since none of that is native to MNK.

It's not like anyone was replacing thieves with BSTs. If people want TH, they opt for a thief. Just like it people want healing, they opt for a white mage. People generally opt for the best of what they need. I've never heard anyone say "we need TH, someone come BST".

Essentially it's not about balance between jobs. Certain jobs and combinations (e.g. NIN/DNC and solo) are much better at things than other jobs. That's not balance, that's just how it is. It's about BST being more effective than intended, specifically in regards to farming items. I think they should just own up to that, instead of making some BS excuse about comparing TH between jobs.

[Karbuncle]

The idea of this Nerf, as a whole, Is pretty stupid. Theres no reason for it. It was fine as it was. As Anna said, No one invited BST over THF when they wanted TH. Dynamis was quite possibly the one and only event BST was preffered, and that was more due to ease/bandwagon-ability than the fact BST>THF or something rediculous.

But after sifting through 20 pages of Whiny BSTs crying and feeling entitled to the ability, I'm literally on the edge of being thankful this is being removed just so i can have the mental image of you guys crying and throwing tantrums, screaming like an angry german kid at his desk losing a match.

I mean, The nerf is dumb, REALLY dumb. But some of your reasons for feeling entitled to it are equally dumb. The "I WANT IT BECAUSE I DO" then going around and telling Thief's they're dumb/you don't care about their thought on it is the most hypocritical pile of ass i've ever read.

The real kicker is you guys are so blind to your rampant Hypocrisy (I see the word Butt hurt used a lot, Irony, Coincidence?), That its almost amusing to read it.

You mention Farming Pets. I don't see Summoner or PUP with a Thief Pet? Would you object to this being added? (God know i wouldn't, that'd be kick-ass)

Edit: Oh, And i particularly Giggled ravenously at the idea of someone using a dictionary to try and back up his Theory Thief in FFXI is defined by Steal, and there-for, TH isn't it defining Trait. Hint: Its not the Dictionary Nynja is referring too - I spoilered it for you below.

If you guys want to help your case, You should stop throwing your anger at Thieves, and actually start making attempts for alternatives, to the dev team. I have, Look around. I've made suggestions to simply Improve the Usefulness of TH beyond 3, In a way only THF can utilize. Like a TH-Unique Debuff based on TH level. So forth

What you're doing now, It just makes you look like whiny children outletting their anger on anyone because of an injustice, Everyone. I'm sure 99% of the Thief's on this forum, including me, Have BST leveled, and will be hurt just as bad by this. As a collective, Thief or no, We hate the nerf, Its a dumb nerf.

Just, Be Thankful you're keeping TH1, and They're considering Pet:TH+ Gear in the future. The only things that changing is that the Out-of-Abyssea Bros will actually have to work for their Treasure hunter. Do i think they shouldn't do this nerf? Yes. Do i think they'll go back on their decision? No. That would require them making Treasure Hunter useful.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Try focusing your energy on coming up with reasonable solutions to fit SE's "Vision".

Coming up with Working alternatives, Working Solutions, Something to present to the Dev team would be far better use of your time.




Quick Edit:
That Mythic and Empyrian weapons should be nerfed, because they're better than the mandau you wasted your time making back in the day.

99Mandau > 99Thwast in every conceivable manner.

And personally, I don't think Nynja wants everyone to get nerfed. The argument you're having with him now really seems more personal than having to do with FFXI's direction.

And To really make sure its remembered. Some of your arguments? Pretty decent. But instead of whining and making passes at Thief, Do something constructive. Come up with Ideas, Solutions, Alternatives. Anything other than raging at eachother.

[Nynja]

I didnt even read that steaming pile of shit you posted because after reading the first 3 words, I knew it could only be summarized by this famous quote:

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I only noticed this because Karb quoted it:

go back to the way it used to be, because you were dumb enough to get a mandau back before the adjustments.

That Mythic and Empyrian weapons should be nerfed, because they're better than the mandau you wasted your time making back in the day.

You are aware that of the trio of endgame daggers, atleast at 90 and 95 level, Mandau is the strongest of the three? I think even at 85 it was pretty comparible to Trashtar, and I'm pretty sure the trend would continue at 99. The same however can NOT be said in regards to other relics. If you want to QQ about garbage rare weapons, I'm pretty sure I've seen you OFFHANDING your farsha. enough said

[Camiie]

But after sifting through 20 pages of Whiny BSTs crying and feeling entitled to the ability, I'm literally on the edge of being thankful this is being removed just so i can have the mental image of you guys crying and throwing tantrums, screaming like an angry german kid at his desk losing a match.

I mean, The nerf is dumb, REALLY dumb. But some of your reasons for feeling entitled to it are equally dumb. The "I WANT IT BECAUSE I DO" then going around and telling Thief's they're dumb/you don't care about their thought on it is the most hypocritical pile of ass i've ever read.


But then you're throwing all BSTs under the bus for the actions of a few. I'm not saying I'm as pure as the driven snow, but I specifically said to our most vocal proponent of this nerf that I'm more than happy to support any boosts to THF that he or SE would want to suggest (within reason of course). I have nothing at all against THF as a job. I don't play it, but I certainly enjoy what it can bring to the table and understand that the job needs work.

The whole thing just feels like being punished without having done anything wrong. Not just the nerf itself, but the vitriol and disdain coming from those reacting gleefully to it. It's way beyond lolJOB.

I'm sure I have stepped on peoples' toes as BST before, though I always do my best to keep that to a minimum and I think I've largely succeeded. I don't think my TH3 pets have gained me an extraordinary amount of loot, but it certainly does seem to help. I have soloed some timed-pop in Abyssea and around Vana'diel before, and had people come by wanting to kill the same thing. I don't think that's terribly egregious. I will team up unless I know someone to be untrustworthy.

It'd still be nice to know why this change is really being made. I'm sure there's a reason other than BALANCE!! Either SE felt too much loot was being gained, something was being exploited, or there's something coming down the pipe where BSTs will actually be useful. Or maybe I'm just trying to apply reason to insanity.

[Nynja]

Who here was crying about injustice when the pet: DT-100% thing was fixed?

[Camiie]

Who here was crying about injustice when the pet: DT-100% thing was fixed?

It may have been someone, but it wasn't me.

[Karbuncle]

The whole thing just feels like being punished without having done anything wrong. Not just the nerf itself, but the vitriol and disdain coming from those reacting gleefully to it. It's way beyond lolJOB.

I agreed with that. I mean, The nerf has some meaning. But i feel it could have been addressed better.

Its simply, Instead of barking back and forth with eachother (not specifically you), Should come up with workable solutions or alternatives to give to SE That might change the nerf.

Though Frankly, Its a futile Effort. They don't listen and will continue to thrust their "Vision of Balance" in us rather we like it or not.

[Kristal]

SMN is already getting Cait Sith.....at some point.

And at the bold, in short - No.

IF automatons get TH, it would be an attachment... and IF an avatar gets TH, it would be Cait Sith. And yes, this is total speculation.

[Karbuncle]

I hope Cait Sith doesn't get TH, Thats literally just an Excuse to make another Mediocre Avatar. >_>

[Louispv]

Incorrect. No job in the game has the same Strength of TH As Thief does. Your argument is now flawed. Thieves can Obtain a Base TH of 3, Other jobs can only do Base of 2, THF Can obtain up to TH7 in gear, Other jobs only TH3.

Thief is the best Treasure Hunter, That is the jobs Defining Trait. When you see a shout for a Thief, They're not saying "Must have Steal+ Gear", they're saying "TH4/TH5+".

No, sir, you are the one that is wrong. (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Tarutaru_Sash) Tarutaru Sash gives TH+1. It has already been tested, and it gives a full TH3, just as THF gets. All other TH gear doesn't matter, as according to every TH in existence, including Nynja, (and SE themselves it seems from this nerf) TH after that has no effect. So all 10 jobs that can wear that belt are exactly as good at using Treasure Hunter as THF is.

If it was about maintaining THF's TH mastery, SE would need to remove all tarutaru sashes from the game. Since they have not, this is simply a nerf to BST because Nynja and ilk bitched, and nothing more.

[Karbuncle]

No, sir, you are the one that is wrong. (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Tarutaru_Sash) Tarutaru Sash gives TH+1. It has already been tested, and it gives a full TH3, just as THF gets. All other TH gear doesn't matter, as according to every TH in existence, including Nynja, (and SE themselves it seems from this nerf) TH after that has no effect. So all 10 jobs that can wear that belt are exactly as good at using Treasure Hunter as THF is.

If it was about maintaining THF's TH mastery, SE would need to remove all tarutaru sashes from the game. Since they have not, this is simply a nerf to BST because Nynja and ilk bitched, and nothing more.

You kinda just repeated back to me what i already said. :X

I had said "No Other job has a Base of TH3" Base means "no gear". I go on to say, "They only get a Base of 2" - Then i go on to Say "With Gear, THF Can get TH7" further followed by "A few other jobs can then get TH3 from gear".

Key Words from the above are "Base" and "With Gear". So i said exactly what you did o_o;

Also, TH4+ Does have a noticeable effect over time, Its just Well, Negligible, to the point, In reality, If you're forced to pick between say, a WHM, and a THF, You'd chose the WHM and go /THF. The Thief would be preferable, but the WHM offers more survivability to another tank.

In a lot of situations, Its preferred to have someone /THF because the majority of people, during the time this was advocated, were low-manning and 2-boxing, Looking for the smallest possible party size.

TH4+ Would have been preferrable, but its catered to low man groups.

So Its not "nothing", its just... Very small of an effect. You would need hundreds of kills to verify the difference. Its quite sad. But to say it does nothing is an over-statement that needs reevaluation from everyone i suppose. Including us Thieves.

[Nynja]

No, sir, you are the one that is wrong. (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Tarutaru_Sash) Tarutaru Sash gives TH+1. It has already been tested, and it gives a full TH3, just as THF gets. All other TH gear doesn't matter, as according to every TH in existence, including Nynja, (and SE themselves it seems from this nerf) TH after that has no effect. So all 10 jobs that can wear that belt are exactly as good at using Treasure Hunter as THF is.

On a scale of 1000 kills, you'll notice the difference between TH3 and TH7. On a scale of 50 kills, you wont notice much difference. Thats what we mean by TH3 is "useless".

[Arcon]

No, sir, you are the one that is wrong. (http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Tarutaru_Sash) Tarutaru Sash gives TH+1. It has already been tested, and it gives a full TH3, just as THF gets.

That is exactly what he said in the text you quoted. Base of two, TH3 in gear. How is he wrong?


All other TH gear doesn't matter, as according to every TH in existence, including Nynja, (and SE themselves it seems from this nerf) TH after that has no effect. So all 10 jobs that can wear that belt are exactly as good at using Treasure Hunter as THF is.

Wrong. TH has a greatly reduced effect per tier and only compared to the first two tiers (not first three, TH2 is great, TH3 is almost the same as TH2). However, you still notice a significant increase from TH2 (or even TH3) to TH7, which is what THF can get all through gear.


If it was about maintaining THF's TH mastery, SE would need to remove all tarutaru sashes from the game. Since they have not, this is simply a nerf to BST because Nynja and ilk bitched, and nothing more.

Personally I believe SE is simply afraid of upsetting "the balance". If all TH tiers worked like TH1 and TH2 (rerolls), TH would be incredibly broken at higher tiers (TH7 would be the equivalent of killing a mob eigth time for drop rates), which I can even understand. Though personally I think they should reduce TH1 and TH2 effect but make it the same effect for all tiers.

[JofJAX]

I think that instead of reducing pet TH to 1, SE should instead lower the level cap of of Yuly and Falcor to 84 or 85 (before merits and Relic +2 Augment), keep the jug ingredients the same (they aren't that hard to get...), and allow Falcor to remain out for 2 hours. This would lower the level of the pet by 15 levels and make merits or relic more desired and prioritize them for any dedicated BST.

Or even going ahead with the nerf, keep the jug ingredients the same and lower the max level of both pets to 85 while making sure NOT to make any +1 TH items weapons...

[Laphine]

out of curiosity, were there any conclusive tests that showed THI + taru sash = THII? i can't remember

[Arcon]

out of curiosity, were there any conclusive tests that showed THI + taru sash = THII? i can't remember

I cannot see why it shouldn't be. I've done a fair amount of tests on the workings of TH itself, and it all indicates that TH is very simply tiered, with all trait tiers and all increasing items and buffs (Kupower/Atma) as well as upgrades just adding up. No extra-TH calculations (like post-TH modifiers or mid-tiers) or anything like that.

[Zeargi]

The only thing I'm going to say is this. While it's annoying to say the least, but the 'nerf' isn't going to break the bank too much.The Reason why I say this: THF's TH base is 4 with all the Job Trails; +1 For Knife, +1/+2 for Assassain's Armlets (+2), and another +1 for Empy. Feet +2. So the magic total of TH8 with gear, 9 if you use atma. BSTs will be getting an Axe, I presume. The thing about TH is that once you hit with all that loveliness, you can take the TH gear off, because it no longer helps at that point. So one extra axe to carry to proc your TH3 might be a little inconvenient, but once you've got it on the mob you can go back to business as usual. It sucks, trust me, I understand... I was working on my THF Steal gear so I could make Dippers for my BST. But it's not THAT bad of a nerf once you re-gear (again...) And 1 maybe 2 axes in the grands scheme might not be so detrimental.

[Arcon]

The only thing I'm going to say is this. While it's annoying to say the least, but the 'nerf' isn't going to break the bank too much.The Reason why I say this: THF's TH base is 4 with all the Job Trails; +1 For Knife, +1/+2 for Assassain's Armlets (+2), and another +1 for Empy. Feet +2. So the magic total of TH8 with gear, 9 if you use atma. BSTs will be getting an Axe, I presume. The thing about TH is that once you hit with all that loveliness, you can take the TH gear off, because it no longer helps at that point. So one extra axe to carry to proc your TH3 might be a little inconvenient, but once you've got it on the mob you can go back to business as usual. It sucks, trust me, I understand... I was working on my THF Steal gear so I could make Dippers for my BST. But it's not THAT bad of a nerf once you re-gear (again...) And 1 maybe 2 axes in the grands scheme might not be so detrimental.

Depends on the mob. Big ass NM? Sure, swapping won't hurt you much. Dynamis mobs that die in seconds? You're gonna notice a significant drop in DPS from swapping weapons. For BST, it will probably still be worth it, since they're gonna have TH0 or TH1 normally (depending on the pet), and the upgrade is very effective at those tiers (upgrade up to TH2). For THF, for example, it would actually be worse to swap gear, because while you marginally increase the drop rate, you lose in amounts of kills in any given timeframe.

[Nynja]

THF's TH base is 4 with all the Job Trails; +1 For Knife, +1/+2 for Assassain's Armlets (+2), and another +1 for Empy. Feet +2. So the magic total of TH8 with gear, 9 if you use atma.

Base 4, wut?

[Zeargi]

Depends on the mob. Big ass NM? Sure, swapping won't hurt you much. Dynamis mobs that die in seconds? You're gonna notice a significant drop in DPS from swapping weapons. For BST, it will probably still be worth it, since they're gonna have TH0 or TH1 normally (depending on the pet), and the upgrade is very effective at those tiers (upgrade up to TH2). For THF, for example, it would actually be worse to swap gear, because while you marginally increase the drop rate, you lose in amounts of kills in any given timeframe.

*The use of Treasure Hunter enhancing equipment has no effect if the current effectiveness level has risen above the user's cumulative Treasure Hunter effect (from traits, equipment, and other sources).

*Treasure Hunter can be enhanced by any THFs in the group, not just the THF that set the initial Treasure Hunter level.

*If a THF with a higher tier of Treasure Hunter than is currently in effect performs an action on the enemy, it will set Treasure Hunter's effectiveness to his or her level (e.g. the next strike will increase Treasure Hunter's effectiveness to +1 of his or her effect). This is also the case when a THF performs an initial action and subsequently performs another action in Treasure Hunter enhancing equipment.

This is taken from the wiki. If you're managing to kill a mob in 10 secs then I can see what you're saying to be true, but you're procing, hitting with TH, and then finishing off. I swap gear all the time for SMN, BLM, PUP, Etc. It's instantaneous And the thing now, with Pet +TH gear, you now have greater options of pets to use. Even if you only gain TH +1, which bestows the greatest boost % to TH anyway, It's now applicable to pets that otherwise wouldn't have it as is, like Crude Raphie. While the lose of TP would be bad for gear swaps, it's not unmanageable. Most cases you're subbing DNC to begin with; so Reverse Flourish could help compensate for some of the loss there. Plus, with Dual Wield, the TP gain in most cases is large as is. And as it stands, I could be wrong, we don't even know what type of equipment it is that'll have the Pet TH+. It might be an earring you get from VW or WoE, It could be a pair of gloves you get somewhere. Which in that case, there'd be no TP loss at all, so.... yeah.


Base 4, wut?
At lvl 99 The Base Treasure Hunter gain with no additional gear, etc. is 4.

[Arcon]

[..], so.... yeah.

Exactly what I said. In short: probably worth it for BST, despite loss of DPS, unlike for THF.


At lvl 99 The Base Treasure Hunter gain with no additional gear, etc. is 4.

It's 3.

[Zeargi]

It's 3.
Thief's Knife: +1 THF
Assassin's Armlet's +2: +2 TH
Raider's Poulaines +2: +1 TH
I own all of these and Proc TH8, No offense... It's 4

[Raksha]

Thief's Knife: +1 THF
Assassin's Armlet's +2: +2 TH
Raider's Poulaines +2: +1 TH
I own all of these and Proc TH8, No offense... It's 4

It starts at 7, then when you see the message that is you bumping it up to 8.

[Nynja]

At lvl 99 The Base Treasure Hunter gain with no additional gear, etc. is 4.

And if you kill a mob and fail to get a TH+ proc...the BASE with all possible gear is 7, not 8.

[Arcon]

Thief's Knife: +1 THF
Assassin's Armlet's +2: +2 TH
Raider's Poulaines +2: +1 TH
I own all of these and Proc TH8, No offense... It's 4

Why would I be offended?

When TH "procs", as people call it, it only "upgrades" (would be the correct term). Meaning, if it procs TH8, you already had TH7 on before that. TH itself doesn't need to proc at all, as soon as you perform an offensive action on a mob, you apply your current level of TH on it (unless there's already a higher level of TH present on the mob).

[Zeargi]

How is that possible to upgrade if the upgrade happens with the opening attack?

[Arcon]

How is that possible to upgrade if the upgrade happens with the opening attack?

I'm actually somewhat surprised they got it right without messing this special case up. I assume that as soon as you initiate the offensive action, the TH level you currently have is applied, then the TH upgrade kicks in as an additional effect. Regardless of how they coded it, that is how it is, base TH is 3. You can see it in the traits menu as well, they have "Treasure Hunter", "Treasure Hunter II" and "Treasure Hunter III" listed. If that doesn't convince you, I've done some large scale TH testing on lizards and noticed a clear difference in the tiers (at least lower tiers), one shotting tons of them without ever getting an upgrade (through ranged attacks), just from different gear.

[Zeargi]

If that doesn't convince you.

I'll take your word. >_> But now I feel like an idiot. But I guess that would make some sense, the initial strike most likely aggros the mob before it actually connects with it. But for game semantic the engagement and upgrade happen almost instantaneous with one another.

[Vazerus]

/hasn't read the last few pages, and then the first ~25 pages

Instead of nerfing BST TH, SE should have just added more mobs/faster respawns in Dynamis to relieve congestion, because obviously this was the reason for the nerf. When 10 people is more than enough to occupy an entire zones JA procs, there's a problem.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You need to learn how to quote, or don't quote at all.

[deces]

By all means go on ahead do it, or zip-it

[Kristal]

By all means go on ahead do it, or zip-it

Replace that wall-o-text with a link to the thread, before someone reports it using the little triangle icon on the bottom left of your monster post.

[Raksha]

Replace that wall-o-text with a link to the thread, before someone reports it using the little triangle icon on the bottom left of your monster post.

Or at least spoiler it.

[Gwydion]

As an adjustment to the balance of Treasure Hunter at level 99, the below pets will have their Treasure Hunter effect changed to Treasure Hunter I.

-Dipper Yuly
-Faithful Falcorr
※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.

...


Apologies for the necro-bump, but 7 years later, there is no gear that has "Pet: Treasure Hunter +"....right? What a strange thing to mention after nerfing Pets from TH3 to TH1....