Apples to Oranges

[Alerith]

Hey ya'll. Not too long ago, I got Almace for my PLD. It's a fun little thing and Chant Du Cygne is a very welcomed boost in damage to my beloved tank job.

Recently, I finished leveling BLU up to 99 and I found that, even at level 90, Chant Du Cygne was doing better and more consistent damage.

My BLU and my PLD, at the moment, share the same WS gear, so it isn't like there's any huge gaps in gear stats. I have a few blue magic spells that have added a little bit of DEX, but the difference in damage is pretty large for just a few points.

In Abyssea:
PLD - 2600 average, as high as 3600
BLU - 3300 average, as high as 4800

Outside Abyssea:
PLD - 1100 average, as high as 1700
BLU - 1500 average, as high as 2400

Can anyone tell me what fact I'm overlooking that is making my BLU trump my PLD? Does BLU simply have better Attack or something?

Thank you all for your time and input.

[Dragonlord]

I've actually noticed this too recently and been thinking why blu's cdc's seem to largely trump pld's. My best guess is first, you're not DWing w/ pld. This affects 2 things. You're missing the stats from offhand (most likely 11 atr and 22 atk shikargar) and the extra hit DW gives to WSs.

Blu also gets some nice stat bonuses from setting spells, however pld's WS gear tends to be better, including large boosts like twilight set. So my best guess is the offhand's added dmg, and the DA/TA gear blu has access to over pld.

[Alerith]

Indeed, that makes sense, and while the extra DW hit certainly applies, I currently offhand an Isador which offers no attack bonuses.

I get +8 DEX from my current spell selection, and all the gear my BLU uses to WS, my PLD uses the same things.

I'll admit that my BLU is horribly under geared, which is what baffles me even more considering how optimized my PLD is.

[Dragonlord]

What are you subbing in each situation? that could also make a sizable difference. In additon list the traits you're setting on blu. These 2 areas are probably where the difference is.

[Alerith]

RDM on both PLD and BLU.

If by traits you mean job traits:

Double Attack
Dual Wield
Skillchain Bonus

Disseverment, Goblin Rush, Quadratic Continuum, Delta Thrust, Heavy Strike, Sudden Lunge, Blazing Bound, Zephyr Mantle, Animating Wail, Cocoon, Diamondhide, Cimicine Discharge, Acrid Stream, Demoralizing Roar, Plenilune Embrace, Battery Charge and Winds of Promyvion.

[SpankWustler]

You're right in thinking the gap shouldn't be that wide when both Blue Mage and Paladin have the same sub-job and similar equipment. There's a gap if the Blue Mage is subbing Warrior and doing other things to achieve the highest sword damage possible, but that's not the case in your examples.


My BLU and my PLD, at the moment, share the same WS gear, so it isn't like there's any huge gaps in gear stats.

This is the biggest part of it, unless I'm reading this sentence way too literally. I'm not too familiar with Paladin's equipment, but I know it shares very little visible equipment with Blue Mage. A quick glance tells me Paladin will probably come out with lower DEX and no Loki's Kaftan/Toci's Harness/Atho's not-as-good-as-hoped Set Bonus but much higher Attack from Twilight Helm and other heavy melee pieces.

Still, that's a pretty wide gap considering both jobs are wearing similar stuff. Do you use different food on each job or something?

Edit: I remembered that Voidwatch equipment exists, even if it doesn't drop.

[Dragonlord]

Ok, CDC is a 2.25 fTP 3 hit WS. So 4.25 fTP in total. Let's assume str/dex on pld and blu are equal.

DW from blu increases the fTP to 5.25, a 19% damage increase. The DA from blu's job trait gives a 19.5% chance of adding another hit. This means a 19.5% chance to deal 19% more damage, which is a 3.7% increase to average dmg.

So in total, Blu's CDCs will be on average 22.7% stronger than your pld's assuming your mods (dex) and fSTR are the same on each job.

Disclaimer: Blu's DA was found to be 7% at one point and im not sure if this was fixed or not, some verification needed. i used 10% in my model. (fixed number w/ 7% DA)

Let's take your 2 averages and add them into 1.
Blu avg = 4800, pld avg = 3700. (4800-3700)/4800 = 22.9%

It seems we found where your extra damage is coming from :D

Edit: fixed the DA from 10% to 7%, i couldn't remember if this was a test server glitch or both servers. Thanks for the info.

[SpankWustler]

Disclaimer: Blu's DA was found to be 7% at one point and im not sure if this was fixed or not, some verification needed. i used 10% in my model.

It's intentionally 7%. I have no idea why, since Blue Mage's Triple Attack is full potency or much closer to it (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/37619-Blue-Mage-Job-Findings?p=4804129&viewfull=1#post4804129), but 7% Double Attack is correct and intentional.

[Alerith]

So really, dual wielding and double attack account for that much of my damage? That's pretty insane if that's the case.

[Dragonlord]

So really, dual wielding and double attack account for that much of my damage? That's pretty insane if that's the case.

Yeah looks like it lol. I guess i underestimated the added dmg from the DW hit before i actually mathed it out. Makes sence now though why blu is crushing pld's dmg, even though pld/war gets the use of fencer (tp bonus and crit hit rate bonus)

[Alerith]

You're right in thinking the gap shouldn't be that wide when both Blue Mage and Paladin have the same sub-job and similar equipment. There's a gap if the Blue Mage is subbing Warrior and doing other things to achieve the highest sword damage possible, but that's not the case in your examples.

This is the biggest part of it, unless I'm reading this sentence way too literally. I'm not too familiar with Paladin's equipment, but I know it shares very little visible equipment with Blue Mage. A quick glance tells me Paladin will probably come out with lower DEX and no Loki's Kaftan/Toci's Harness/Atho's not-as-good-as-hoped Set Bonus but much higher Attack from Twilight Helm and other heavy melee pieces.

Still, that's a pretty wide gap considering both jobs are wearing similar stuff. Do you use different food on each job or something?

Edit: I remembered that Voidwatch equipment exists, even if it doesn't drop.

I apologize, I didn't mean to skip over your post.

My CDC gear is very minimal at the moment. I've only just begun building a WS set for it. Right now, it consists of Lethe Boots, Tumbler Trunks, Cuchulain's Belt, Atheling Mantle, Airy Ring, Rajas Ring and Rancor Collar, all of which can be equipped mutually by PLD and BLU.

My BLU was actually merely a proc job on until recently, and in this case, as they can both equip Almace, I just transferred my PLD WS set over.

[SpankWustler]

So really, dual wielding and double attack account for that much of my damage?

It didn't occur to me either, since I just assume every one-handed job dual wields unless I actually think about it, but yeah. Dual Wield can basically be considered +1.0 fTP for a weaponskill unless you're including an ability that only affects the first hit in a calculation.

[Arcon]

Yeah looks like it lol. I guess i underestimated the added dmg from the DW hit before i actually mathed it out. Makes sence now though why blu is crushing pld's dmg, even though pld/war gets the use of fencer (tp bonus and crit hit rate bonus)

And Berserk. Speaking of which, if you used PLD/WAR (almost any non-solo situation would welcome that), you may notice quite a large increase in damage, depending on the mob you fight.

[Dragonlord]

And Berserk. Speaking of which, if you used PLD/WAR (almost any non-solo situation would welcome that), you may notice quite a large increase in damage, depending on the mob you fight.

Very true. Sorry i wasn't clear, but i was speculating blu/war vs. pld/war in that case. Which everything would be equal except that blu gets DW/TA(from spell set trait), and pld gets fencer, which blu doesn't due to DWing.

[Arcon]

Very true. Sorry i wasn't clear, but i was speculating blu/war vs. pld/war in that case. Which everything would be equal except that blu gets DW/TA(from spell set trait), and pld gets fencer, which blu doesn't due to DWing.

Ah, I misunderstood then. I'm not a BLU and won't pretend to know a thing about it, but is /WAR a viable option for BLU?

[Dragonlord]

is /WAR a viable option for BLU?

It currently the best damage output sub for blu, especially in VW. You get berserk/warcry/aggressor, attack bonus and 10% DA from traits. This allows you to set DW3 (25% delay reduction), TA (5%), and STP.

This is obviously not meant to be something to solo with as you lose a bit of utility, but instead sacrifice that utility to act as a DD. And as prothscar and others have shown, almace Blu is about the 5th strongest DD in VW, after some powerhouse DDs like ukko war and VS mnks. Blu's power really comes from the high rate of crits, rate of attack, and extra hits.

[Alerith]

And now Loki's can be added to my list. Got it just a little bit ago. xD