Dynamis: way too much junk. [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 07:29 AM

1-Toss pop items in storage, and they stop dropping
2-no...unless you're dumdum, 50 forgotten's is a lot pricier than 30 forgottens and ~20-30 currency.
3-then dont kill tauri
4-they only drop from NM's, so its nota big deal
5-why? Just because YOU dont need them doesnt mean others dont.

1. We kill the higher tier enemies, so we need their pops. However, we tend to wind up with about 7 of the pop items we don't need just clogging up the loot pool. Furthermore, it's unreasonable of me to ask everyone in my LS to hold on to 41 pop items in their storage so they stop dropping when we're not hitting NMs.

2. That's for people who buy their af2+2. Plus you're not factoring in the cost of going after the -1 piece, and that -1 pieces only drop in CoP zones, and that CoP zones have a much poorer drop rate on forgs than RoZ zones. Forgs will drop in price over time as people complete their armor, anyways.

3. Ok we'll just... hey, wait. Taurii are those true-sight things which are all over the narrow hallways leading to that time extension in Tavnazia. I'm sorry, are you seriously against fellow hydra gear being removed from the game?

4. orly? Only NMs have exp scrolls? And you'd be sad to see them go why?

5. Dynamis is not a good source of mythril beastcoins. No one goes to Dynamis hoping to get mythril beastcoins. They would not be missed by anyone.

Your views on this appear to be those of someone who solos Dynamis. Please, try to see this through the eyes of someone who has led more than 400 Dynamis runs over the years. I find it hard to believe you would be so opposed to these changes- how do they negatively impact you, exactly?

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 07:32 AM

You seem to be confused. There is no trial that will take your AFv2 to +1. There are only two trials that take your AFv2 to +2 depending on if it's already +1 or not.

The +1 version is absolute trash though. It's barely an improvement over the original piece. No one stops at af2+1 and says "eh, I don't really need the +2". It's just getting them closer to the +2. I honestly think the +1 should've been boosted to the +2 stats instantly, but that's a seperate topic. I'm just trying to cut out the clutter in Dynamis.

Edit: Oh, I'm sorry, I see what you mean now. Yeah, I meant +2, not +1.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 07:34 AM

1. We kill the higher tier enemies, so we need their pops. However, we tend to wind up with about 7 of the pop items we don't need just clogging up the loot pool. Furthermore, it's unreasonable of me to ask everyone in my LS to hold on to 41 pop items in their storage so they stop dropping when we're not hitting NMs.

Clearly you guys are either passing them, or tossing them, because if you werent, they wouldnt be dropping.

41 items you say? Are you guys doing rounds in every area or something? lol

2. That's for people who buy their af2+2. Plus you're not factoring in the cost of going after the -1 piece, and that -1 pieces only drop in CoP zones, and that CoP zones have a much poorer drop rate on forgs than RoZ zones. Forgs will drop in price over time as people complete their armor, anyways.

Because people arent getting -1's just farming in cop areas for currency...lol, cmon man, better arguments here pls. The real problem would be the NQ if anything cause no one really does beastmen in cop areas, and people dont really do cities/northlands.

3. Ok we'll just... hey, wait. Taurii are those true-sight things which are all over the narrow hallways leading to that time extension in Tavnazia. I'm sorry, are you seriously against fellow hydra gear being removed from the game?

OH NOZ, the 5 tauri you have to kill to get to the orc TE is going to rape your loot pool, OH MI GOSHHHHHHHHH, THINK OF THE CHILDRENNNNNNNN

Your views on this appear to be those of someone who solos Dynamis. Please, try to see this through the eyes of someone who has led more than 400 Dynamis runs over the years. I find it hard to believe you would be so opposed to these changes- how do they negatively impact you, exactly?

Because I didnt run a dynamis LS for 5 years.
Mythril coins only dropped from statues, if anything, which now statues dont drop anything (atleast the TE ones dont, I dont know why you'd kill any other statues)

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 07:38 AM

Simpler solution: learn to pass on the junks and not farm the mobs that you dont need drop from. If you aggro them by accident, then learn how to move around (sneak/invisible also helps for the non-true-sight/non-true-sound ones). If you have to kill mob that drop junk, learn to pass.

If everyone passes, yeah, the AF2 would go poof and we'd have more space for forgs and currency. But since not everyone does pass, we wind up with NINE AF2 PIECES IN THE POOL MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO LOT/PASS ANYTHING THAT ISN'T RA/EX BECAUSE IT JUST INSTANTLY SORTS AFTER IT DROPS. We're a linkshell. We're not a solo person. Lotting and passing takes time away from pulling and killing, and we have LOTS of crap dropping each kill, so it would be a nightmare keeping up with lotting/passing it all. Think about cells in Zhayolm Remnants- that's the kind of loot nightmare we have in Dynamis; no one can keep up with everything that's being dropped unless they use lightluggage, and even if they do use lightluggage, lightluggage can't lot or pass the stuff that sorts without being put into the loot pool.

I get the feeling people don't understand what I'm saying here, so I'll try to be more clear. If you have 9 pieces of ra/ex stuff in the pool, that leaves 1 other space for loot to drop into. If you kill something while 9 pieces of ra/ex gear is in the pool, and the enemy drops 4 bynes and 2 forgs, 5 of those items automatically get sorted to someone, while one stays in the pool. That is the annoyance we're facing every run.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 07:51 AM

Clearly you guys are either passing them, or tossing them, because if you werent, they wouldnt be dropping.

41 items you say? Are you guys doing rounds in every area or something? lol
Yes, we are. Why? I mean, we're a Dynamis linkshell. If one of the members wants something from Dynamis, we go after that. We're not there to make gil by selling forgs and currency. We're there to reach goals for our members. And yes, one of our regular members drops pop items as soon as they sort to him. He refuses to use LL, and he refuses to hold onto the pop items. Also, I still don't see an argument as to why 1 pop item per zone would be a bad thing for Dynamis. All I see is "YOU HAVE PROBLEMS THAT I DON'T SO DEAL WITH IT LOL".

Because people arent getting -1's just farming in cop areas for currency...lol, cmon man, better arguments here pls. The real problem would be the NQ if anything cause no one really does beastmen in cop areas, and people dont really do cities/northlands.
If they're after currency, they're after currency. If they're after af2+2, they're after af2+2. I can see the appeal of doing one set of enemies in Dynamis and having that set of enemies being the best source of currency, forgs, -1s, and neo NM loot, but it's imbalanced and results in a deluge of loot that no one wants.

OH NOZ, the 5 tauri you have to kill to get to the orc TE is going to rape your loot pool, OH MI GOSHHHHHHHHH, THINK OF THE CHILDRENNNNNNNN

You told me not to kill them without realizing that's an impossibility. Now your argument is that we don't lose much? Well what do you lose if the hydra fellow gear is removed? What does anyone lose? Oh sorry, let me put this a way that's easier for you to understand:

OH NOZ, the 5 most worthless pieces of gear in the game were removed which completely nerfed everyone who plays, OH MI GOSHHHHHHHH, THINK OF THE CHILDRENNNNNNNNNNN.

Seriously, how would them getting removed be a bad thing?

Mythril coins only dropped from statues, if anything, which now statues dont drop anything (atleast the TE ones dont, I dont know why you'd kill any other statues)
Neoboss stones can drop beastcoins too. Is a real kick in the pants when Jeuno stone gives us oneiros knife and a mythril coin. And I honestly don't even know why they have stones that aren't the TEs in the zones anymore. As for why we kill them? When you kill as fast as we do, you run out of stuff to pull in the immediate vicinity and have to do longer-range pulls. In tight-quarters like Windurst and Jeuno, the puller is likely to wind up with a stone every now and then.

removing the coin drops would admittedly be a small change for our LS overall, and I wouldn't be sad if SE outright told me "no" on that one. I'm just trying to cut the fat in as many sensible places as possible. The one that would have the biggest change for my LS is honestly the one that no one has criticized yet: making it so high tier mobs don't drop AF2, relic weapons, or crafting mats. I'm guessing that's because everyone who's criticizing me are people who farm the low tier mobs.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 07:55 AM

You've been doing dynamis as a full scale LS event this entire time? Maybe you're the one doing it wrong

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 08:02 AM

You've been doing dynamis as a full scale LS event this entire time? Maybe you're the one doing it wrong

Sadly, I have been doing it wrong. Dynamis is a lowman event now. You can solo a freaking relic weapon and full AF2+2, and the drops off neobosses are sadly lack-luster. I've made several posts on that topic before, pleading for them to make reasons to bring groups to do it again. Sadly, Arch Dynamis Lord is the only reasonable thing to bring a group for. Well, maybe the neo Diabolos' too. Some of their drops are kinda neat.

But that's beside the point. I tried asking for more reason to target the neo NMs and it fell on deaf ears, so now I'm trying another one of the things about recent Dynamis that really irks me. Did you know that BEFORE the entry changes to Dynamis, my LS was getting over 80 pieces of AF2 per run? That's a lot of lotting/passing to do in the 90 minutes we took to full-clear Bastok. Would you like to know how much we get now?

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 08:27 AM

I'm curious though... how strongly opposed would you be to the idea of neo NMs and higher tier enemies being removed from Dynamis? Instead, put all the drops on the zone boss and fill the high-tier areas with low-tier enemies and low-tier NMs to drop bijous and hundos. If that had been my suggestion, would you be this irrate as well?

Damane

02-02-2012, 08:28 AM

Nynja

02-02-2012, 08:31 AM

umad...thats all

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 08:37 AM

While we are at it, can we also take Currency out of Dynamis. That junk allways seems to drop in such large quantitys and autosorts to me for no reason ._., lets just move it all over to campaign, where it can massdrop in Union groups!

And after that you can remove the NMs pls and place them into the real Areas?

And after that pls delete the zones.

Currency is why people do Dynamis though. Do you do it for exp scrolls? Do you do it for beastcoins? Do you do it for hydra corps fellow gear? No? Then why does the suggestion of removing those things from Dynamis offend you?

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 08:50 AM

umad...thats all

Mad people allow emotion to cloud their judgement instead of relying on logic to dictate their actions and beliefs. A mad person might say something like "OH NOZZZZ" and blow everything out of proportion with hyperbole instead of presenting valid points.

Since no one else seems capable of saying it, I'll raise the biggest reason against the changes I've suggested:

The return on investment for devs spending time making these changes is miniscule at best since your linkshell appears to be the only one having these difficulties. I would much rather see the devs work on something more current like VW than to make Dynamis less painful for one linkshell.

Now THAT would be a valid argument which highlights an actual downside to the request I have made instead of simply saying 'lol, lern2pass' or 'hah u dum' or 'yeah, then we could delete dynamis after that'.

Alhanelem

02-02-2012, 08:54 AM

3. Ok we'll just... hey, wait. Taurii are those true-sight things which are all over the narrow hallways leading to that time extension in Tavnazia. I'm sorry, are you seriously against fellow hydra gear being removed from the game?Yes, I'd be against any gear being removed from the game, especially when people already posess it. Once something is in, you can't just take it out. Sorry you don't like the gear. Just throw it away if you don't want it.

Currency is why people do Dynamis though. Do you do it for exp scrolls? Do you do it for beastcoins? Do you do it for hydra corps fellow gear? No? Then why does the suggestion of removing those things from Dynamis offend you? Because they don't need to be removed. If you don't want stuff, pass it or throw it away. It's not that hard.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 09:02 AM

Were back to an era of garbage drop rates, and you're complaining about having too much loot...

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 09:14 AM

Yes, I'd be against any gear being removed from the game, especially when people already posess it. Once something is in, you can't just take it out. Sorry you don't like the gear. Just throw it away if you don't want it.

Because they don't need to be removed. If you don't want stuff, pass it or throw it away. It's not that hard.

Your first point is respectable, and for the most part, I agree. Once something is ingame, it should stay ingame. There are, however, many items ingame which were only obtainable for a limited time, such as the tidal talisman and various moogle caps. No longer any way to obtain those, but most people don't care about that too much. And that is how people would come to feel about the hydra jupon set as well. Haubert and doublet set are still useful, I'm not asking for them to be removed. But I hold a special place in my hate for the hydra jupon set, and would like to see it removed.

As for your second point, I get the feeling I'm not explaining this too well. I want to see a decrease in the sheer volume of drops in Dynamis, or a way to better control that volume so we can still lot and pass on currency and forgs. When there's 9 pieces of AF2 in the loot pool and 2 forgs drop, 1 goes into the last loot pool spot, the other is sorted before anyone can lot or pass it.

Allow me to get more specific: my friend and I dualbox in Dynamis during the LS runs. We allow currency to autosort, but forgs get collected by the bank to be sold to members (for DKP, not gil, of course). Since our mules are dualboxed, people in LS think it unfair that currency has twice the chance to sort to me (because I have 2 chars) as it has to sort to them. As such, I use a LL profile on the mule to auto-pass currency (as well as all the other crap I don't want). However, since the currency sorts without ever going into the loot pool to be passed, my mule winds up with currency at the end of the run. Furthermore, half the forgs get auto-sorted to random members because the bank can't lot forgs that are never in the loot pool. I don't fully trust our members with... less impressive attendence... to be honest about returning all the forgs that autosort to them.

So it's not a matter of passing the stuff you don't want. It's a matter of there being so much junk flying through the loot pool that even lightluggage can't keep up with it.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 09:19 AM

Were back to an era of garbage drop rates, and you're complaining about having too much loot...

Do you not already have every piece of AF2, hydra gear, exp scroll, beastcoin, fresh orc liver you want? Come to fenrir and join my LS, we get plenty of that crap.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see drop rates increase on currency and forgs. That stuff is really quite useful. I wish high tier mobs dropped more currency and forgs, but as an exchange, they couldn't drop anything else. More of what I want and less of what I don't? Where do I sign?

Karbuncle

02-02-2012, 09:23 AM

Do you not already have every piece of AF2, hydra gear, exp scroll, beastcoin, fresh orc liver you want?

Yah, I pretty much do. I'm sure he does too >_>

But neither of us are on a forum asking for them to remove those items from the game because We're capped on them.

Your requests are ludicrous, Which is where their responses are coming from. You're perhaps inadvertently coming off as "I hate xxx items, So remove them now", Which is selfish. Especially the intent to complete remove -1 Relic, and NPC Armor (I happen to have and Own the Entire NPC set, For the hell of it, I like my NPC).

The Requests are ludicrous border-line stupidity. Which is why there is such resistance in this thread.

Hopefully thats a tad of clarification.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 09:32 AM

I find it hard to believe that people find a request to remove exp scrolls and mythril beastcoins from Dynamis is "stupid" or "selfish", but perhaps you're right and that's simply a lack of vision on my part.

Luckily, I honestly don't care about the first 5 requests I made nearly as much as I care about the last since crafting supplies, exp scrolls, etc aren't nearly the loot pool killer that AF2 and relic weapons are. The drop rate on AF2 was increased twice from the original rates to the point where if you have 6 or more competent characters, you might get carpal tunnel just trying to pass or toss the stuff. Since my LS exclusively targets higher tier mobs (better drop rate on forgs, and gives pop items for the neo NMs), I would LOVE to see a change that makes it so the higher tier mobs drop nothing but currency, forgs, and pop items.

Karbuncle

02-02-2012, 09:39 AM

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 09:42 AM

I don't want my most desired point to get buried under all the objections to my other points, so in an attempt to salvage what remains of my requests, I'll quote the more objectional material here, then remove it from my OP so hopefully we can discuss the portion I care more about anyways. My OP looked like this after one edit:

I've been running my Dynamis linkshell for quite a while. I remember Xarc runs where we hit the zone (and linkshell) cap so other people simply couldn't get in. Lately, my linkshell is lucky to get 6 people to show up for a run. However, we produce more items in the loot pool now with 6 people than all those years ago with 64 people. And a good portion of what we produce, NO ONE WANTS.

It's junk, and there's tons of it. AF2, relic weapons, pop items, AF2-1, forgs, crafting items, exp scrolls, hydra gear, and even more AF2 because the drop rate is ridiculously high now. Even with just 6 people, we frequently kill so quickly that the loot pool fills up with 9 ra/ex items (mostly AF2), so the rest of the loot auto-sorts upon killing an enemy with no chance of being lotted.

My requests are:
Remove the junk:
1. Remove the old system of pop items for neo NMs. Instead, have ONE pop item for ALL neo NMs in that zone, make it not rare or ex, and make it stack to 12.
2. Remove the AF2-1 completely. There's a trial to upgrade to +2 now. We don't need 2 methods to reach the same goal.
3. Destroy the hydra fellow gear. That gear which drops off taurii, enhances your adventuring fellow's stats by a laughably small amount, and no one wants.
4. Remove all exp scrolls.
5. Remove all crafting materials which can be found in other zones (beastcoins).

Compartmentalize what remains:
Make it so higher tier enemies in each zone don't drop AF2, relic weapons, or crafting materials. People who want those things don't target the higher tier mobs anyways.

edit: Alerith is right, I miss-typed +1. There is no trial for +1.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 09:49 AM

Some of the Crafting Supplies are Vital for Upgrades in Relic Equipment.

Exp Scrolls and Beastcoins? I'd vote to remove them. They're pretty worthless. But its not really a big deal. Either train your goons to pass items, Or train them to be booted from the party if it becomes such a big issue. No excuse for people not to be able to pay attention long enough to pass a few items.

For the record, I'm indifferent to this thread, Only pointing out that this may be where some of your resister's in this thread is coming from. The Initial 5 ideas we're insane, Same for some Crafting materials Key to Relic Upgrades, but again, Exp Scrolls and beastcoins I'd be happy to see trashed. they usually hit the floor anyway.

But as i said, It is selfish, Because despite the thought, Some people might like those 200 exp scrolls - I could be wrong, But i'm 99% Positive they count to the "Exp Trials" for Relics in Dynamis.

I only requested complete removal of crafting items with other sources (IE, beastcoins). The other crafting materials would remain, though be restricted to lower tier mobs only.

As for exp scrolls working on trials, one of my members tested and claimed it did not. I still intend to test this myself someday though. The best method we've found for breaking those +2 trials is level synch around 90 and exp chain higher tier enemies.

Dreamin

02-02-2012, 09:52 AM

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 10:02 AM

So you're a Dynamis Shell been running for over 500+ runs and your ppl dont pass?

Why in the hell do you still have ppl who dont pass in dynamis especially if you have been through the old time when the RDM hats and THF hands seems to ONLY drop when you have 30s left in the zone and on the next to last mob killed?

So your people dont know how to pass should not become a requirement for the DEV to spend the limited resources for your shell to learn how to pass like so many people and LS that has somehow master this what seems to be extremely difficult task called 'pass or lot'.

Getting 40 people to pass one item once is different from getting 4 people and 2 dualboxes to pass 120 items over the span of 2 hours. Dynamis is more casual now, and it's harder to find members for a Dynamis linkshell than it used to be. I'm not going to kick a person from the LS if they refuse to use LL or pass an item every minute. I'd rather they focus on not getting caught by EES with their shadows down and helping me sleepga the links.

Yes, it's easy to pass or lot once. Heck, it's easy to do that 10 times. But when the real challenge of the event becomes passing and lotting a dozen items per minute... well, let's just say Dynamis is already pretty boring without that aspect in the mix.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 10:21 AM

Can you please elaborate on what you're doing that your treasure pool is filling up to the point where misc junk is sitting in there and loot that you want is falling to wrong people?

Tsukino_Kaji

02-02-2012, 10:59 AM

Bitching about too much relic? That's a new one.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 12:17 PM

Can you please elaborate on what you're doing that your treasure pool is filling up to the point where misc junk is sitting in there and loot that you want is falling to wrong people?

Killing stuff. Craploads of stuff. Provided we don't get boned by a stray invincible or PD, our killrate tends to be faster than provoke can keep up with (so faster than one kill per 30 sec). We don't proc every mob, but we proc more than 50% of them. We're flooded with drops most of the time unless we slip up somewhere and someone dies. You know how not ra/ex gear can't push ra/ex gear out of the loot pool, right?

Nynja

02-02-2012, 12:23 PM

Meyi

02-02-2012, 12:24 PM

The +1 version is absolute trash though. It's barely an improvement over the original piece. No one stops at af2+1 and says "eh, I don't really need the +2". It's just getting them closer to the +2. I honestly think the +1 should've been boosted to the +2 stats instantly, but that's a seperate topic. I'm just trying to cut out the clutter in Dynamis.

Clearly you're new to Dynamis. +1s have been out for years now. They were added to the game back at 75, before the Dynamis change. They weren't added to be a bridge to +2, they were added to be slight adjustments to relic back at 75.

Whether you want to take an armor through +1 or not is now up to you.

Mahoro

02-02-2012, 12:31 PM

Sadly, I have been doing it wrong. Dynamis is a lowman event now. You can solo a freaking relic weapon and full AF2+2, and the drops off neobosses are sadly lack-luster. I've made several posts on that topic before, pleading for them to make reasons to bring groups to do it again. Sadly, Arch Dynamis Lord is the only reasonable thing to bring a group for. Well, maybe the neo Diabolos' too. Some of their drops are kinda neat.

I find it is best to focus neoboss activity on Oneiros Grips, Avesta Bangles, Tjurkurrpa Belts, Portus Collar from Arch Diab, and ADL drops. Nobody in my LS seems to want the other stuff as they do seem lackluster. Hope you continue on, the arch bosses and Tome NM's are fun, and it is always fun to actually get loot rather than logs from endless VW ^^

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 12:37 PM

Then whats the problem? Currency is falling to random people in your group? Didnt you say you're doing it as a LS? So whats the problem exactly?

unless you're in a shady LS where people will try to keep currency that falls to them

I know it's annoying to read every word I write in this thread, especially since I wind up repeating myself like I'm about to right now. But I dualbox in Dynamis (usually the main WHM + BRD). We allow currency to autosort, but my LS sees it as unfair if my dualbox char (or any of the other dualbox chars) get any of the autosort currency, because that means I, IRL, have twice the chance to get currency as someone who doesn't dualbox.

Edit: I forgot to also repeat that since our loot pool is full of ra/ex stuff, it forces the currency to sort before my dualbox char has a chance to pass.

FrankReynolds

02-02-2012, 12:44 PM

I've been running my Dynamis linkshell for quite a while. I remember Xarc runs where we hit the zone (and linkshell) cap so other people simply couldn't get in. Lately, my linkshell is lucky to get 6 people to show up for a run. However, we produce more items in the loot pool now with 6 people than all those years ago with 64 people. And a good portion of what we produce, NO ONE WANTS.

It's junk, and there's tons of it. AF2, relic weapons, pop items, AF2-1, forgs, crafting items, exp scrolls, hydra gear, and even more AF2 because the drop rate is ridiculously high now. Even with just 6 people, we frequently kill so quickly that the loot pool fills up with 9 ra/ex items (mostly AF2), so the rest of the loot auto-sorts upon killing an enemy with no chance of being lotted.

My request is:
Make it so higher tier enemies in each zone don't drop AF2, relic weapons, or crafting materials. People who want those things don't target the higher tier mobs anyways.

edit: I removed my first 5 requests because people were objecting so heavily to them, and I honestly didn't care about them nearly as much as I care about the one remaining request on this post. If you wish to see my OP to see what they were objecting so heavily to, I've quoted it on reply #24. If you still object to my one remaining request, don't hesitate to say so.

I'm not sure what you are requesting. Do you want them to remove gear / craft drops so that the amount of currency is increased? or do you just hate hydra junk etc.?

I know it's annoying to read every word I write in this thread, especially since I wind up repeating myself like I'm about to right now. But I dualbox in Dynamis (usually the main WHM + BRD). We allow currency to autosort, but my LS sees it as unfair if my dualbox char (or any of the other dualbox chars) get any of the autosort currency, because that means I, IRL, have twice the chance to get currency as someone who doesn't dualbox.

I say: If your dual box character is pulling it's own weight, then you deserve whatever drops it gets. You earned them. If you were with a PUG would they know you were dual boxing because your mule sucks? If the answer is yes, then pass the currency, but if they are just mad because it's just you getting loot, explain that you have to gear 2 characters with that loot. Or you could always just tell them that your blind, mute nephew plays that character.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 12:45 PM

Clearly you're new to Dynamis. +1s have been out for years now. They were added to the game back at 75, before the Dynamis change. They weren't added to be a bridge to +2, they were added to be slight adjustments to relic back at 75.

Whether you want to take an armor through +1 or not is now up to you.

I had 5 full sets of AF2+1 before level 80 was released. I feel confident in saying I've done more dynamis than anyone else on Fenrir. You've... half made my point for me though, so I don't really mind. You're right, it's up to you whether or not you hit the +1 stage now. Since 5 stackable items can now take any NQ item straight to +2 version, completely destroying the need for the 100 (20 jobs, 5 pieces) -1, unstackable pieces, it would be efficient to do away with them. I honestly don't care if they decrease the number of forgs required to do that to 30 regardless of the stage you're on, I'm just tired of all the junk that a person has to sort through in Dynamis. Imagine if petrified logs dropped into your inventory every 50 seconds while fighting qilin, and it took you 2 hours to finish killing him.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 12:48 PM

I'm not sure what you are requesting. Do you want them to remove gear / craft drops so that the amount of currency is increased? or do you just hate hydra junk etc.?

You know there's 2 tiers of enemies in Dynamis, right? I'll assume you do.

We target the higher tier enemies because we're only after currency, forgs, and the neo NMs. I want those higher tier enemies to stop dropping AF2, crafting items, etc. The lower tier enemies would still drop those things, so you could easily get your AF2 or crafting items by farming them. But our loot pool floods with AF2 that no one in my LS has wanted in over 3 years. So I want the high tier enemies to be a strictly high-tier farming target- something that people can go after if they want the stackables and high tier loot.

FrankReynolds

02-02-2012, 12:56 PM

You know there's 2 tiers of enemies in Dynamis, right? I'll assume you do.

We target the higher tier enemies because we're only after currency, forgs, and the neo NMs. I want those higher tier enemies to stop dropping AF2, crafting items, etc. The lower tier enemies would still drop those things, so you could easily get your AF2 or crafting items by farming them. But our loot pool floods with AF2 that no one in my LS has wanted in over 3 years. So I want the high tier enemies to be a strictly high-tier farming target- something that people can go after if they want the stackables and high tier loot.

Yeah, that kinda makes sense, but most people farming currency would probably still see it as: faster kills > slow kills /high drops rate. They would have to adjust the whole zone. Not that that is a terrible plan. Just thinking out loud so to speak.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 12:58 PM

Or wait, killer new idea. Instead of nq AF2 dropping off high tier enemies, how about a painfully low drop rate of AF2+2? Make it so neo NMs drop one random piece every kill, and neobosses have a 50% chance of dropping a fully augged piece. That way our LS doesn't get flooded with junk as badly, but other players don't really lose out on their AF2 chances if they happen to prefer higher tier mobs for whatever reason.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 01:04 PM

You guys distribute currency by luck of the draw instead of pooling it and splitting it? lol.....

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 01:09 PM

How can we pool and distribute if it force-autosorts anyways? For that matter, how do you break a hundo in Jeuno/Xarc/Beauc/CoP runs? Just bank it until the bank has 100 singles?

Edit: I also have a -enmity set for WF in VW. Just incase you wanted more material for something to ridicule me about, Nynja.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 01:15 PM

How can we pool and distribute if it force-autosorts anyways? For that matter, how do you break a hundo in Jeuno/Xarc/Beauc/CoP runs? Just bank it until the bank has 100 singles?

pool currency...random for 100(s), split rest of currency to remaining people....DERP

Dreamin

02-02-2012, 01:59 PM

SpankWustler

02-02-2012, 02:01 PM

Removing the crafting materials from the more difficult monsters wouldn't be a bad idea, even though I think removing anything beyond that would be pretty extreme.

If items should be removed just because people find them annoying, then over half the equipment in FFXI should be removed because dumb and/or confused people annoy others by wearing it.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 03:01 PM

pool currency...random for 100(s), split rest of currency to remaining people....DERP

So it's lol to let currency fall, but it's derp if you don't /random for hundos? Yeah... /random is the same as letting currency fall, and hundos are the most hotly contested type of currency which drops from Dynamis. You also have yet to answer how the hell I'm supposed to lot the currency when there's 9 pieces of AF in the pool.

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 03:07 PM

last I checked it's 2012 and dynamis still requires 40+ ppl to do??? from the way you make it sounds like you really need these 40 ppl to make these successful runs but yet you cannot get these same people that you somehow not able to be successful without to NOT learned how to pass?

I'm sorry I just are still stuck at the fact that you're an experienced ls but can't get ppl to learn how to pass.

Just curious, but can you juggle 1 ball? Ok, now juggle 60. It's a matter of magnitude. YES IT'S EASY TO PASS ONE ITEM, BUT THAT'S NOTHING COMPARED TO PASSING 1 PIECE OF AF ON 2 CHARS EVERY 50 SECONDS. They'd have to use LL to do that without diminishing their ability to pay attention to what's going on, and at least one of them plays on PS2, and yet another refuses to use LL because he thinks it's cheating.

Edit: It's obvious now that you're only reading the parts you want to read. My LS --USED-- to have 40+ people in it, but now has far fewer. I don't know where you saw me saying we currently have a group of more than 2 alliances for 2012 current-day Dynamis, but the truth is, we don't have that many people.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 03:15 PM

So it's lol to let currency fall, but it's derp if you don't /random for hundos? Yeah... /random is the same as letting currency fall, and hundos are the most hotly contested type of currency which drops from Dynamis. You also have yet to answer how the hell I'm supposed to lot the currency when there's 9 pieces of AF in the pool.

Are you fkn stupid or just trolling? You pool all the currency at the end of the run. If you got any 100s, you have your 18 zergs random for it, and then whatever extra is split amongst the remaining 17.

Is that really that complicated?

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 03:26 PM

Are you fkn stupid or just trolling? You pool all the currency at the end of the run. If you got any 100s, you have your 18 zergs random for it, and then whatever extra is split amongst the remaining 17.

Is that really that complicated?

Again, where the hell did I say I have 18 people? We're lucky to have 6 on a run. And if a person lets hundos go random, why not just let it all go auto? That means less work for me, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO ACHIEVE BY ASKING FOR THE LOOT POOL TO CHILL SO I CAN PASS COINS ON MY SECOND CHAR AND LOT FORGS TO SORT TO OUR MEMBERS AT THE END OF THE RUN. I hate pooling stuff at the end, it takes time. That's one of the major reasons I started this thread in the first place.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 03:50 PM

Yinnyth

02-02-2012, 04:09 PM

With 6 people theres no way you're getting that much of a drop rate on AF-1 that currency is being forced out before you can pass lol. I'm aware of where we are posting, but since you're 2boxing, I think its safe to presume you're on a pc...it shouldnt be that hard for you to pass currency on your alt (I refuse to say anything more).

NQ AF is the biggest problem for us, thus my revised OP. Yes, -1 stuff is annoying, but it's not nearly as common as nq. The pop items are also annoying because they're rare, so they can also stack up and push out currency, but not half the annoyance that AF is. Tonight's turnout was 5 people, and I let our heavy DD come blu for fun. During the farmtime, we averaged around 6 pieces of ra/ex stuff in the pool, 8 was our highest point that I noticed. I don't think a casually-formed party of players with no heavy DDs should be capable of filling the loot pool with 8 ra/ex items in Dynamis unless they come from an exceedingly hard boss which merits taking the time to stop and sort them out.

Perhaps another solution would be to simply expand the loot pool to 20 spaces and only allow ra/ex stuff to take up the first 10 slots. Would this be more to your liking than changing the distribution and drop rates of Dynamis? I fear it would take more programming time on SE's part, but I'd be all for anything which gets this problem off my back.

Airrick

02-02-2012, 07:25 PM

From one of your previous posts sounds like you have more than enough people, yet you said youre using 2 characters, any particular reason why you (and possible other members of your LS) are dual boxing considering how easy Dynamis is now? That sounds like it might be part of the problem.

Ravenmore

02-02-2012, 07:57 PM

Yarly

02-02-2012, 08:09 PM

You've been doing dynamis as a full scale LS event this entire time? Maybe you're the one doing it wrong

I was going to say this, but it was already said.

OP should trim some people out of the shell.

Damane

02-02-2012, 08:28 PM

Currency is why people do Dynamis though. Do you do it for exp scrolls? Do you do it for beastcoins? Do you do it for hydra corps fellow gear? No? Then why does the suggestion of removing those things from Dynamis offend you?

I was being sarcastic...

Dreamin

02-02-2012, 11:16 PM

Just curious, but can you juggle 1 ball? Ok, now juggle 60. It's a matter of magnitude. YES IT'S EASY TO PASS ONE ITEM, BUT THAT'S NOTHING COMPARED TO PASSING 1 PIECE OF AF ON 2 CHARS EVERY 50 SECONDS. They'd have to use LL to do that without diminishing their ability to pay attention to what's going on, and at least one of them plays on PS2, and yet another refuses to use LL because he thinks it's cheating.

Edit: It's obvious now that you're only reading the parts you want to read. My LS --USED-- to have 40+ people in it, but now has far fewer. I don't know where you saw me saying we currently have a group of more than 2 alliances for 2012 current-day Dynamis, but the truth is, we don't have that many people.

I'm sorry like I've said, I'm still stuck on the fact this is 2012 and you're having ppl that still cannot for whatever reason to learn how to pass loot. I just cant get over that fact.

Do you know how little resources we have left from the DEV to work on this game? And you want the DEV to spread some of that resources in fixing an inability of some players who doesn't know how to pass in Dynamis? Seriously, take a step back and look at what it is that you're asking. Personally, removing all these items that you're asking for doesn't impact me since they're either stuff that I already have or never care about. But have you thought that just maybe there are people who might want some of those items (as junky as they might be to many people)?

Yinnyth

02-03-2012, 12:31 AM

Dude making it way harder then it really needs to be. Its not that hard of a idea to work though of having one person lot all the currancy and spit it at the end. Now if he doesn't trust anyone not to run off with the currancy or people are worry about him doing it then guess what time for a few new friends.

Ok, so how does that person lot the currency when it never goes into the loot pool to begin with? I honestly don't care if the currency goes autosort as long as it stays in the loot pool long enough to be passed/lotted. That's how we handle it now, and everyone in LS is ok with those rules. OUR PROBLEM is less a matter of needing to lot and divide the coins fairly at the end and more a matter that stuff doesn't drop into the loot pool. I can't believe how many times I've had to explain this during the thread, but if you have 9 pieces of AF2 in the loot pool, there's only 1 space that currency can use. So if a mob drops 2 coins, one coin goes into the loot pool, one coin goes autosort without time to lot or pass it.

Nynja

02-03-2012, 12:32 AM

I guess he missed my message

Yinnyth

02-03-2012, 12:39 AM

I was going to say this, but it was already said.

OP should trim some people out of the shell.

Oh, now there's a good idea. Yeah, 6 people are way too many. It's so hard deciding who gets sagasinger when ADL actually drops. So I'll go tell one of those people who have been doing Dynamis under my leadership for 4 years that he can't come to runs anymore because we have too many people.

Spiritreaver

02-03-2012, 12:39 AM

I read the whole thread before replying Yinnyth and please forgive me if this comes off harsher than i mean it to

I know it's annoying to read every word I write in this thread, especially since I wind up repeating myself like I'm about to right now. But I dualbox in Dynamis (usually the main WHM + BRD). We allow currency to autosort, but my LS sees it as unfair if my dualbox char (or any of the other dualbox chars) get any of the autosort currency, because that means I, IRL, have twice the chance to get currency as someone who doesn't dualbox.

Edit: I forgot to also repeat that since our loot pool is full of ra/ex stuff, it forces the currency to sort before my dualbox char has a chance to pass.

That's your problem right there, its two-fold. 1) Your group is doing autosort when it comes to currency and 2) You are running with the wrong sort of group.

When my group actual logs on to do something and it turns out to be new-dynamis, we are usually 4-6 ppl strong. We kill pretty fast and never have a problem with drops.

1-We have an assigned currency lotter. This alleviates alot of grief right there. i don't care how fast you all are killing, you still have to proc and that can take a bit on stubborn mobs; if the assigned lotter has lotted, the currency will drop to him when pool kicks the item out as long as his inv has space. After the run it should take no more that a couple min to figure total currency drop and each member's cut.

Of course when time gets low, this breaks down a bit. You will have some currency going to whoever if they dont pass. And this brings me to

2-Set up your group better. If ppl in your group don't want an item, tell them upfront they will have to pass it and if that's too much trouble they dont have to come on the run. Period. If they are gonna have issue passing currency after the 5 min mark, they dont have to come on the run. Period.

See the pattern there?

Basically, if you are in charge of the group, you need to be in charge of the group. And if your members don't agree with the way things go, they need to move on. Expecting SE to change drop systems in one zone(excuse me here if i'm wrong, but got the distinct impression that you all farm dyna-tav all the time) because you guys don't structure your group better just doesn't work. Dynamis is a lowman event now, if ppl in your group cant get that, they shouldn't be in your group to begin with.

Yinnyth

02-03-2012, 12:42 AM

I was being sarcastic...

Yes, you were being sarcastic. It's kinda easy to assume you don't actually think Dynamis should be completely removed. But what was your underlying message? I'm guessing you were attempting to say that I was trying to remove too much from Dynamis. My response was that I'm not trying to cut out the things that make Dynamis unique, I'm trying to cut out the stuff in Dynamis that NO ONE wants. And so far, NO ONE has come forward to say they actually want the things I proposed should be cut, they've only come forward to say that it's a problem with my people, not a problem with the game.

Dreamin

02-03-2012, 12:45 AM

Yinnyth

02-03-2012, 12:49 AM

I read the whole thread before replying Yinnyth and please forgive me if this comes off harsher than i mean it to

That's your problem right there, its two-fold. 1) Your group is doing autosort when it comes to currency and 2) You are running with the wrong sort of group.

When my group actual logs on to do something and it turns out to be new-dynamis, we are usually 4-6 ppl strong. We kill pretty fast and never have a problem with drops.

1-We have an assigned currency lotter. This alleviates alot of grief right there. i don't care how fast you all are killing, you still have to proc and that can take a bit on stubborn mobs; if the assigned lotter has lotted, the currency will drop to him when pool kicks the item out as long as his inv has space. After the run it should take no more that a couple min to figure total currency drop and each member's cut.

Of course when time gets low, this breaks down a bit. You will have some currency going to whoever if they dont pass. And this brings me to

2-Set up your group better. If ppl in your group don't want an item, tell them upfront they will have to pass it and if that's too much trouble they dont have to come on the run. Period. If they are gonna have issue passing currency after the 5 min mark, they dont have to come on the run. Period.

See the pattern there?

Basically, if you are in charge of the group, you need to be in charge of the group. And if your members don't agree with the way things go, they need to move on. Expecting SE to change drop systems in one zone(excuse me here if i'm wrong, but got the distinct impression that you all farm dyna-tav all the time) because you guys don't structure your group better just doesn't work. Dynamis is a lowman event now, if ppl in your group cant get that, they shouldn't be in your group to begin with.

We don't slow down to wait on proc. That's probably the biggest difference. We used to do that until we had a few magic-proc mobs who took over 2 minutes to proc with a brd cycling threnodies and a whm spamming debuffs. It's just not worth it to wait on procs. Should still try by spamming JAs on JA-proc enemies, but don't sit there staring at the thing for 120 seconds until a red !! appears.

I'm curious though, does your entire group immediately pass pop items and AF2 so that it disappears from the loot pool altogether? Or do you allow it to just sit there until it autos?

Yinnyth

02-03-2012, 01:03 AM

Thousands of players throughout the course of the many years of dynamis has learned how to pass and he's just refusing to have his players learned how to pass and instead wanted SE to dedicate resources in solving what seems to be a problem only to him and his group. I'm just amazed. Pure and simply amazed at this.

You seem to think that my group is a bunch of bumbling retards who would kill a vanguard eye in Beauc and wonder why it didn't give them a time extension. (haha, Dynamis humor. Only the rearguard eye gives time, not vanguard eyes, but I'm sure you knew that). Passing something takes time. Passing ten things takes ten times that amount of time. Having 6 people pass ten things takes 60 times that amount of man-hours. Which is man-hours I'd rather they spent on killing more stuff, if possible. Were you aware that the game actually has an internal time restriction on how frequently you can make interactions with the loot pool? Yes, if you try to pass everything in the loot pool very quickly, 1/2 to 2/3 of your pass attempts will go ignored and need to be repeated. What fun!

We're not a solo person in Dynamis. If everything goes well, we have no downtime, there's a constant stream of pulls coming in to kill. If one person stops to pick their nose, everything could go wrong. A scorpion might not get silenced or stunned when it wakes up and breakga everyone. So no, I'd rather not have my members digging around in the loot pool when there's actual work to be done.

Yinnyth

02-03-2012, 01:32 AM

The opposition to my requests is clearly too strong, and all my attempts at compromise have gone unnoticed. It has been foolish for me to carry on as long as I have, and it would be even more foolish for me to carry on any longer. As such, I accept defeat and will tell my linkshell that they must all pass or lot every piece of AF2, AF2-1, relic weapons, pop items, hydra gear, exp scrolls, CoP boss weakening items, fiendish tomes, and any other rare and/or exclusive item in the loot pool as soon as it drops so as to keep the loot pool clean. If they fail to comply, they will be removed from linkshell.

Thank you all for your time and feedback, and I apologize for making such ludicrous requests.

Dreamin

02-03-2012, 01:40 AM

Again, I'm only stating the fact that thousands and thousands of players all learned how to pass throughout the old days of Dynamis during some of the most craziest time. Certainly I understands that many ppl are going in still not just solo'ing but doing small group (3+).

Other than all mobs are already popped and NM needs to be popped with trigger, there really isn't anything new or special (okay mobs are stupidly easy too in there). Links still needed to be handled (again nothing new). So, which part of the new dynamis has made it so difficult such that you can't have your ppl learned how to pass???

Still amazed...still can't get over that fact ppl don't know how to pass in dynamis. Maybe it's because that was the absolutely 1st thing I learned when I 1st step foot into dynamis years ago.

So I'm curious, anyone who has ever done dynamis has a problem with passing loot and not being able to handle your 'job' inside? Be it healing, melee lead (back in the old days), sleeper, puller? I would venture to say it's a big NO if you ever wanted to be successful in dynamis. If you ever had to completely stopped what you're doing to pass, then you're doing dynamis WRONG.

I'm sorry, your problem isn't that there are loots that is messing up the drop and getting autodisturbed, your problem is that you have ppl who doesn't know how to pass.

Aarahs

02-03-2012, 02:28 AM

How he runs his group shouldn't matter to anyone else. Though I admit that discovering how paranoid he is over currency drops that he won't even consider collecting them once the run finishes for distribution is a bit unfortunate. However, trying to punish everyone just because your group refuses to slow down enough to lot/pass is rediculous.

Lukikii

02-03-2012, 02:34 AM

Edit: Nevermind.

Thank you all for your time. I will take the lessons you have taught me back to my linkshell and we will learn to deal with the problem ourselves.

Too bad you are allowed to edit out your original post just because you don't like the responses.

Moink

02-03-2012, 11:04 AM

Pretty Sure he forgot he quoted his OP back in page 3 but i'm going to repost it incase it auto-sorts off the thread entirely <3

I've been running my Dynamis linkshell for quite a while. I remember Xarc runs where we hit the zone (and linkshell) cap so other people simply couldn't get in. Lately, my linkshell is lucky to get 6 people to show up for a run. However, we produce more items in the loot pool now with 6 people than all those years ago with 64 people. And a good portion of what we produce, NO ONE WANTS.

It's junk, and there's tons of it. AF2, relic weapons, pop items, AF2-1, forgs, crafting items, exp scrolls, hydra gear, and even more AF2 because the drop rate is ridiculously high now. Even with just 6 people, we frequently kill so quickly that the loot pool fills up with 9 ra/ex items (mostly AF2), so the rest of the loot auto-sorts upon killing an enemy with no chance of being lotted.

My requests are:
Remove the junk:
1. Remove the old system of pop items for neo NMs. Instead, have ONE pop item for ALL neo NMs in that zone, make it not rare or ex, and make it stack to 12.
2. Remove the AF2-1 completely. There's a trial to upgrade to +2 now. We don't need 2 methods to reach the same goal.
3. Destroy the hydra fellow gear. That gear which drops off taurii, enhances your adventuring fellow's stats by a laughably small amount, and no one wants.
4. Remove all exp scrolls.
5. Remove all crafting materials which can be found in other zones (beastcoins).

Compartmentalize what remains:
Make it so higher tier enemies in each zone don't drop AF2, relic weapons, or crafting materials. People who want those things don't target the higher tier mobs anyways.

edit: Alerith is right, I miss-typed +1. There is no trial for +1

Yinnyth

02-03-2012, 05:11 PM

Too bad you are allowed to edit out your original post just because you don't like the responses.

If you would like to see my OP with one edit to a number I typo'd, see reply number 24. I'm not afraid to hide the fact that I was wrong. What would you like me to do about it? Would you like me to re-edit my OP back in? I'm being sincere, yet I'm still treated like someone who attempted to do harm to everyone who posts on these forums. I have yet to receive ONE "Like!" on any of my posts, which was the big indicator that I should just stop and accept what people are telling me. Is there more that I should do to reform myself?

I already apologized and said I would take what was told to heart. I editted my OP so no one would think I still hold those beliefs, yet I left a quote of my OP so anyone who wants to hate me for what I used to believe is welcome to do so. And finally, I admitted defeat. What else do you wish from me?

Edit: I added another edit to my OP referencing people to reply 24. I hope this satisfies your disbelief of my sincerity.

Yinnyth

02-03-2012, 05:23 PM

Pretty Sure he forgot he quoted his OP back in page 3 but i'm going to repost it incase it auto-sorts off the thread entirely <3

I did not forget, nor should any of you. Those are beliefs I once held. I editted my OP because the OP is what sets the tone for the whole thread, and I no longer wish for this thread to be about the beliefs I once held. Again, if you wish to see how foolish I was, see reply #24. Or hell, read the whole thread and see me attempt to defend those points against overwhelming opposition. It truly was foolish of me.

You are welcome to your opinions of me, and I have no desire to bury any emotions you felt while reading my requests earlier. I merely wish to stop stoking the fire which is burning down my house. As such, I admit I was wrong and request forgiveness. I know it is hard to detect tone in text, and we all tend to apply our own. If I were speaking these words to you IRL, I would hope you would detect my tone is sincere, not sarcastic.

I lack all desire to protect these points any longer. You may see what they were on reply #24, but as it stands, I have no requests remaining. Do as you will. Think as you will.