99 Empyrean Trials. [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Tawnee

02-02-2012, 02:33 AM

My concern is in the future, with new content coming out like legion and such, people are going to simply stop doing VW. As a result I fear plates will become both more scarce and more expensive, basically putting the trial WAY out of reach. As it stands now I feel there aren't enough plates to go round and the price is a bit high for my tastes.

I also would like to either see the requirement lowered or have more plates put into circulation(bigger pouches, more NMs drop them in some fashion/more frequently).

Camiie

02-02-2012, 03:12 AM

Thanks for posting this! I've been trying to get the message out there that the 95-99 Empy trials are such a drastic change from what came before that it's rather unfair to the vast majority of Empy holders. I can't really say it any better than I did in a recent post, so I'll just copy and paste that in here. Hopefully that's not a terrible faux pas.

For the Empy trials, they should have added a new, higher level set of mobs to Abyssea and required 100 items for the 95 stage and 125 for 99.

I know they decided to make the last 2 Empy trials extra difficult to BALANCE!! the relative ease at which one could reach the 90 stage, but that idea was ridiculous from the start. Real balance would have been to keep the difficulty consistently progressive and make the trials realistically obtainable by those who were able to complete the previous ones. (You know, like what they said the 99 Relic trial was supposed to be.)

If Empys hadn't turned out as difficult to complete as they would have liked, they should have accepted that, learned from their "mistake," and applied that knowledge to future content. Instead, they decided to effectively punish Empy owners for THEIR "mistake." While I'm sure that sits well with players who looked down on Empys for being too easy to obtain, I'm not seeing what it does for people who actually own them and enjoyed the process as it was. Aren't those the people that should be taken into account ahead of everyone else?

If anything needs adjustment it's these trials, but I don't know that there's going to be a poopstorm on this as there was on Relics. It's a shame, as I'm sure that will be required to see changes considered at all.

Tamoa

02-02-2012, 03:56 AM

I'm tempted to do the same thing you did Camiie, lol. I won't though, mine was a long-ish post, I'll just post a link to it: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20066-New-99-trials?p=271609&viewfull=1#post271609

When Jeuno II path was released, I had hopes that maybe all the tiers would drop heavy metal plates, at least singles. They don't though, so anyone wanting to try for plates are stuck doing Jeuno and Zilart T3s. And with the complete and utter randomness of reward distribution, it'll take you God knows how long to finish your weapon that way.

Ok you can buy the plates. But it'll cost you an arm and a leg to finish! That isn't reasonable at all, no matter how easy it is to obtain an empyrean.

However, with Camate's post in the Voidwatch loot distribution thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18867-Seriously-VW-loot-system..come-on.?p=271779&viewfull=1#post271779, more speficially this part here:

Since there are a lot of rewards items, meaning a large amount of tickets to be created, we will start off by looking into implementing the hard to get items first. Please understand that it will take some time before this is all implemented.

I'm hoping that heavy metal plates (and riftdross/riftcinder) will be included here somehow.

Tawnee

02-02-2012, 05:47 AM

I'm hoping that heavy metal plates (and riftdross/riftcinder) will be included here somehow.

This would make me very happy!

Erics

02-02-2012, 06:46 AM

Kimble

02-02-2012, 07:06 AM

Empyrean trials didn't get a decrease because likely no one took issue with it. The balk of the issue was(still is) with the relic trial. Mythic trial had a little feed back, and most of that was satisfied by the zeni plate increase. Also due to the fact that Mythic holders are very few, their voice isn't as wide spread.

Camiie

02-02-2012, 07:39 AM

This thread is full of win. I'm glad both relics and mythics got a decrease, but no decrease for empy's at all? Wtf.. Heavy Metal Plates fixed how easy it was for empy holders to get 90. At least make 95-99 half of what it is now..

But see there was nothing to "fix" in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the way Empyrean trials worked from 75-90. SE didn't go wrong when they decided to make Empyrean upgrades require 1500 items from VW. They went wrong when they decided to fix a problem that, to me, wasn't a problem at all.

So what if lots of people worked on and "completed" Empyreans? What's so bad about that? To me it's a good thing! It showed that the system they designed worked! It showed that the content was popular! It showed that people were spending time playing the game and perhaps even having fun! They put in time, effort, teamwork, and gil and got something shiny and powerful in return. This was a shining example of how FFXI should work! It was probably one of the most fair systems they ever implemented.

It WAS... up until the 1500 heavy metal plates got dropped on us and crushed many of our hopes flat. What they've actually done is UN-balance things. Adding in a HUGE difficulty spike is not balance. Consistency is balance and this is anything but consistent.

And Erics I'm not picking on you or anything, I know we agree that things need to be changed. I just saw the word "fixed" and... well... FIXated on it... Sorry!

Damane

02-02-2012, 08:24 AM

the empy trials are a ticking timebomb, if you dont do them now, the trial might end up like the mythic ones... Impossible to do. Look what happened to the mythic quest. Anyone Up for some Alexandrite?^^

Then again, empys are allready usefull at lvl 90, so its not comparable to mythic or relic weapons that get their real boost at lvl 95 and 99 (especially at 99). Its more of a prestige to get a empy up to 99, not a "necessity" like in the case of relic/mythic to even make them good or comparable to empys.
(Thats not saying that I dont find the trial very stupid by all means, 1500 HMP is just retarded)

DrStrangelove

02-02-2012, 01:44 PM

The 99 trial for empyreans is garbage. The weapons already cost more than relics after you buy 1500 heavy metal plates, so why were relic and mythic trials reduced in difficulty (though not enough for relics) and the empyrean trial wasn't changed at all? This is an outrage, almost more then expecting people to kill ADL for a year or more.

I like them the way they are. Empys are excellent weapons and you can get them up to level 90 for free. You shouldn't go any further if you don't want to.

If you like relics better (as you clearly do), then do the 'cheaper' relic.

Armangetto

02-02-2012, 02:27 PM

I agree that the lvl 95 trials and the 99 trials for emps are a bit too much. But mainly the lvl 95 trial. They need to either reduce the amount of heavy metal plates or vastly increase the drop rate of plates, so the prices of plates can go down to a acceptable price range. Or both. If they lowered the amount of plates needed, what would be acceptable? I would say about 500. At 500 for 100k apiece would make it 50m to get the 95 trial done.

What if they never lower the amount of plates needed? No one wants to spend 150m plus for a slight upgrade. They might as well go make a relic and get it to lvl 95.

If they lower the plates needed to about 500. Then increase the drop rate of plates a bit.

If they dont lower the plates and leave it at 1500. Then change the drop rate of plates signifcantly. Have the lower teir VWNMs have a chance to drop a single plate. Have all the T4s from the 3 nations have a chance drop pouches, or a single plate 100% or a very high drop rate. Have the T3s and up drop pouches and the T6s a very high chance of droping 1 to 3 pouches.

A new cell can be introduced thats is made just for increasing the drop rate of plates and pouches. The trade off for using the cell is you dont get any of the good items but gives a very high chance of giving singles from the lower VWNMS and the higher Tier VWNMS drop 1,2 or 3 pouches. This way people can choose either to focus geting plates or gear. Plus the new cell would give incentive for people to help each other out. People who care about gear can get help, while those who are after plates can either sell or use them their own emp.

Just my thoughts.

Camiie

02-02-2012, 08:15 PM

I like them the way they are. Empys are excellent weapons and you can get them up to level 90 for free. You shouldn't go any further if you don't want to.

If you like relics better (as you clearly do), then do the 'cheaper' relic.

Trust me, when you're working on Verethragna, that ain't "free." And it's not that most Empy holders don't go further because they "don't want to" it's because they realistically can't. I'm not sure there are even 1500 plates on the market on my server at this point, even if I did have 150 million+ gil. I certainly don't see the interest in VW out there to produce them. Even if someone was rich enough or bold enough I'm still not sure it's a realistic goal at this time. The vast majority or Empy holders fit neither description. The vast majority of FFXI players don't either.

No one is asking for a hand out here (I shouldn't even have to say that), and contrary to what some believe 90 Empy weapons are not a hand-out. What I'm asking for is that the final 2 Empyrean trials, sans afterglow, be comparably difficult to the rest of the process. Require more items? More difficult/harder to pop mobs? Sure that's fine. That makes sense. 1500 rare items from one of the most poorly received events in Vana'diel history in regards to loot? One of the largest potential gil sinks in the game? Um, what?

This should trump The Fonz on the TV Tropes "Jump the Shark" page, and he's the "trope namer!" That's how severe a swerve this was. Considering what Empyreans seemed to represent before these trials you could almost call it a bait and switch. Heck, I will call it a bait and switch. I'm not sure anyone could have foreseen this would be the direction the trials would take in the final stages. If people had known I wonder how many would have bothered at all. I wouldn't call it a waste of time, but I'm sure most who started an Empy figured they'd realistically be able to finish it if they so chose. For some reason SE decided that people shouldn't be able to do so. For reasons I understand even less, some players find this reasonable. I don't, and I'm hoping many others will chime in saying they feel the same as I do so these requirements can be adjusted.

Registeel

02-03-2012, 02:11 AM

All of my agreement. Right now I only have Almace, Kannagi, and Ochain at 85, but I know that I can realistically get them all to 90 once I sit down and do the NMs with my friends. I'd love to have them all 95 someday, but a whopping 4500 just seems impossible unless I devote all my time to cruor farming, cashing all that out, then buying all plates I can see at all times. Hell even just 1500 seems out of my reach. I'd be all for a plate requirement decrease but, I know that's futile at this point. One can dream, though.

Well, perhaps with my luck on getting Kaggen's Mekira armor, perhaps I'll get enough heavy metal plates before I get the armor drop.... nah, my current ratio on plates from drops is pretty bad, haha.

Erics

02-03-2012, 03:19 AM

But see there was nothing to "fix" in the first place. There was nothing wrong with the way Empyrean trials worked from 75-90. SE didn't go wrong when they decided to make Empyrean upgrades require 1500 items from VW. They went wrong when they decided to fix a problem that, to me, wasn't a problem at all.

So what if lots of people worked on and "completed" Empyreans? What's so bad about that? To me it's a good thing! It showed that the system they designed worked! It showed that the content was popular! It showed that people were spending time playing the game and perhaps even having fun! They put in time, effort, teamwork, and gil and got something shiny and powerful in return. This was a shining example of how FFXI should work! It was probably one of the most fair systems they ever implemented.

It WAS... up until the 1500 heavy metal plates got dropped on us and crushed many of our hopes flat. What they've actually done is UN-balance things. Adding in a HUGE difficulty spike is not balance. Consistency is balance and this is anything but consistent.

And Erics I'm not picking on you or anything, I know we agree that things need to be changed. I just saw the word "fixed" and... well... FIXated on it... Sorry!

No offense taken. I can see where you are coming from, as I, farmed my butt off getting Almace 90. I used the word "fix" for some relic holders are still, to this day, say empy's are easier to obtain over relics just because they farmed currency. Some, not all(no, I am not flaming relic holders), need to realize all the bonuses relics get over empy weapons. I would be happy with a lower amount of plates needed or riftcinders. I've been collecting both, so let us hope SE hears us out as well.

Creelo

02-03-2012, 03:58 AM

Erics

02-03-2012, 04:51 AM

Would be really nice if in the future they had a VW fight or two that literally only dropped HMP, Riftcinder, Riftdross, HMP Pouches, and then perhaps Pouches of Riftcinder/dross as their super rare drop, as opposed to Equipment drops.

I wouldn't say limit all future VWNM HMP/Riftcinder/dross spoils to JUST these fights, but I do think fights like these would be highly appreciated for groups specifically trying finishing up those last couple Empy trials.

I would be happy with this. The amount of items needed wouldn't be so bad if there was a huge increase in drop rates for the items. The fact at 99, it seems we will be putting forth as much effort as the other weapons and the only thing we achieve is a tiny stat boost to our WS mod? While the other weapons have some nice boost to other aspects. People can cry over how some of the WS are "broken" all they want, but look at Quietus.. It sucks. Either SE needs to lower the items required, increase the drop rates for the items needed by a very acceptable percent, or 99 empy's deserve another type of boost, hidden effect, attack or accuracy+, or whatever. I'm not trying to flame or argue with anyone, this is just my opinion on the matter. Feel free to express yours, we can all talk like mature adults(I hope).

wish12oz

02-03-2012, 07:51 AM

the empy trials are a ticking timebomb, if you dont do them now, the trial might end up like the mythic ones... Impossible to do.)

Honestly I am pretty afraid if I don't hurry up and get plates now it won't be possible to do it later. That's why I started working on being able to make tons of gil, so I can buy this stuff while it's around. And it's worked out pretty well, I have 800~ plates so far and tons of riftdross, but don't get me wrong, the fact that I can actually complete these trials does not mean I am happy about it at all. The only thing I really have time for now is making money.

If you like relics better (as you clearly do), then do the 'cheaper' relic.

Yes, I enjoy relics way more, that's why the only relic I will ever make is a g horn for my mule. lol....

Damane

02-03-2012, 08:24 AM

Honestly I am pretty afraid if I don't hurry up and get plates now it won't be possible to do it later. That's why I started working on being able to make tons of gil, so I can buy this stuff while it's around. And it's worked out pretty well, I have 800~ plates so far and tons of riftdross, but don't get me wrong, the fact that I can actually complete these trials does not mean I am happy about it at all. The only thing I really have time for now is making money.

Yes, I enjoy relics way more, that's why the only relic I will ever make is a g horn for my mule. lol....

Dont get me wrong the trial in itself wouldnt be ridicoulus, if it wouldnt be a ticking timebomb. The moment VW drops becomes worthless is the moment HMP stops entering the market in masses. The moment people are out of Voidwatch stones, is the moment less and less HMP enters the market. Pritty much over half of my LS is out of voidwatch stones and they keep buying voiddust to go on. But imagine if spells and other voidwatch drops becomes worthless in terms of gil (aka you cant sell for profit/deck out your voiddust cost) and Voiddust will rise in prise sooner or later.

As said its a ticking timebomb, its only a matter of time. Allready noticed a lesser quantity of HMP entering the market. You can only hope for the next VW part...

Erics

02-03-2012, 08:52 AM

Dont get me wrong the trial in itself wouldnt be ridicoulus, if it wouldnt be a ticking timebomb. The moment VW drops becomes worthless is the moment HMP stops entering the market in masses. The moment people are out of Voidwatch stones, is the moment less and less HMP enters the market. Pritty much over half of my LS is out of voidwatch stones and they keep buying voiddust to go on. But imagine if spells and other voidwatch drops becomes worthless in terms of gil (aka you cant sell for profit/deck out your voiddust cost) and Voiddust will rise in prise sooner or later.

As said its a ticking timebomb, its only a matter of time. Allready noticed a lesser quantity of HMP entering the market. You can only hope for the next VW part...

This.

The trial needs adjusted because look how long it took SE to finally consider adjustments to obtain Alexandrite. Still yet, do we know how often Alex will drop from the new Nyzul? I don't want to be halfway done with HMP, checking bazaar after bazaar, just to finally find one for 500k or more. Empyrean weapons trial deserve adjusting too. It just seems we need to make our voices clear and loud or else we will be doing preposterous trials, and for what? A slight increase?

DrStrangelove

02-03-2012, 01:25 PM

Trust me, when you're working on Verethragna, that ain't "free." And it's not that most Empy holders don't go further because they "don't want to" it's because they realistically can't. I'm not sure there are even 1500 plates on the market on my server at this point, even if I did have 150 million+ gil. I certainly don't see the interest in VW out there to produce them. Even if someone was rich enough or bold enough I'm still not sure it's a realistic goal at this time. The vast majority or Empy holders fit neither description. The vast majority of FFXI players don't either.

No one is asking for a hand out here (I shouldn't even have to say that), and contrary to what some believe 90 Empy weapons are not a hand-out. What I'm asking for is that the final 2 Empyrean trials, sans afterglow, be comparably difficult to the rest of the process. Require more items? More difficult/harder to pop mobs? Sure that's fine. That makes sense. 1500 rare items from one of the most poorly received events in Vana'diel history in regards to loot?

Getting to level 90 is a piece of cake and it's free! Unlike mythics or relics. All this is saying is:

It was free and easy up to 90, while it was hard and expensive for mythics and relics. Why change it!? If you want to give us a hurdle, don't make it more than relics an mythics have at 95 and 99.

There's no shame in stopping at 90. And look at all the people who have 10 or 12 of then already. It's fair to ask that some work get done somewhere.

DrStrangelove

02-03-2012, 01:32 PM

Would be really nice if in the future they had a VW fight or two that literally only dropped HMP, Riftcinder, Riftdross, HMP Pouches, and then perhaps Pouches of Riftcinder/dross as their super rare drop, as opposed to Equipment drops.

I wouldn't say limit all future VWNM HMP/Riftcinder/dross spoils to JUST these fights, but I do think fights like these would be highly appreciated for groups specifically trying finishing up those last couple Empy trials.

I'm sure relic owners would have liked a fight that only dropped pouches of Montients and 100 Byne bills. Empys are easy to make. Easy preezy. There is no reason to ask for more handouts of free stuff. At some point, empy owners are going to have do some work to get to 99. That starts at 95.

Relic and mythic owners wish they had it so good.

Try thinking about this:

BEFORE the relic is 75 and even useable, comes the $120 million.

BEFORE the mythic is 75 and useable, comes the $300 million and innumerable tasks.

The empy works great at 90 without a single dime and with less work!

wish12oz

02-03-2012, 03:44 PM

I'm sure relic owners would have liked a fight that only dropped pouches of Montients and 100 Byne bills. Empys are easy to make. Easy preezy. There is no reason to ask for more handouts of free stuff. At some point, empy owners are going to have do some work to get to 99. That starts at 95.

Relic and mythic owners wish they had it so good.

Try thinking about this:

BEFORE the relic is 75 and even useable, comes the $120 million.

BEFORE the mythic is 75 and useable, comes the $300 million and innumerable tasks.

The empy works great at 90 without a single dime and with less work!

If you can make tons of gil, whats so hard about relics? Nothing, Empyreans require more effort, always have. And doing the 95 stage costs more then relics. Anyway, get out of my thread with your off topic comments. Empyrean trials for 95 and 99 are terrible, no one here cares about your boohooing that relics are easier then a 90 emp, and less expensive then a 95 emp.

Zinato

02-03-2012, 04:23 PM

Empyrean can be bought as well. If buying is the issue both relic and empyrean can be bought to the 75 and 90 versions. If anyone compares the two is should be bought effort to bought effort, or farm to farm otherwise the comparision is invalid.

Camiie

02-03-2012, 08:23 PM

I'm sure relic owners would have liked a fight that only dropped pouches of Montients and 100 Byne bills. Empys are easy to make. Easy preezy. There is no reason to ask for more handouts of free stuff. At some point, empy owners are going to have do some work to get to 99. That starts at 95.

There are NO "handouts of free stuff." I still haven't had anything magically appear in my delivery box ever in the history of FFXI. I still haven't found a free gear Moogle on the live servers. Until those are there, there are no "handouts."

I think the problem you have is that Empyrean up to 90 just happens to be a reasonable system where Relic and Mythic never were. I'm sorry that the devs failed on creating fair systems with those 2 weapons, but that's no reason to add an unfair factor to a system they actually got right. That's not how balance works contrary to your and SE's belief.

If you'd like to see Mythics and Relics made more fair and reasonable then go for it. I'd be glad to back you up on your mission even if I never intend to obtain either one.

Helel

02-03-2012, 09:00 PM

If you can make tons of gil, whats so hard about relics? Nothing, Empyreans require more effort, always have. And doing the 95 stage costs more then relics. Anyway, get out of my thread with your off topic comments. Empyrean trials for 95 and 99 are terrible, no one here cares about your boohooing that relics are easier then a 90 emp, and less expensive then a 95 emp.

Camping NMs requires a lot of effort, and then you've got to lot on drops from abyssea NMs, and then you gotta go to jeuno to turn all the stuff in. Yeah, empyreans do require quite a bit of effort. That whole week of upgrading armageddon was tough stuff.

Give me a break. The HMPs are ridiculous yes, and it's just going to get worse once nyzul is released, but the cost pales in comparison to what 99 relics will cost. Umbral marrow will cost around 20m for it to be worth farming (which I doubt anyone will do anyway). That easily makes up the difference between empyrean and relics, and actually makes relics cost more. Rift items are a joke to get; you should be thanking SE that they didn't increase the number.

Insaniac

02-03-2012, 09:32 PM

If you add in the 100+mil opportunity cost of 5 marrows(190ish mil if you just count the average 7 lost dynamis runs of 18 people), relics and emps are pretty close in cost and that's assuming you could have sold every emp item you used to make your 90 emp for 300k which is unrealistic. Kinda interesting to think about it that way.

DrForester

02-03-2012, 11:48 PM

The 99 trial for empyreans is garbage. The weapons already cost more than relics after you buy 1500 heavy metal plates, so why were relic and mythic trials reduced in difficulty (though not enough for relics) and the empyrean trial wasn't changed at all? This is an outrage, almost more then expecting people to kill ADL for a year or more.

can't speak for Relics as they're really simple to get now, but in the case of Mythic, the lower number was probably Square saying "Sorry the quest just to get your weapon in the first place is so unreasonable compared to Relic and Empyrean".

Zikon

02-03-2012, 11:56 PM

I would like the 1500 reduced.

That is all 60 Riftdross / 60 RiftCinder is a good number for a quest.

1500 is where the issue is created. Please change this number to 200-300.

Camiie

02-04-2012, 02:10 AM

I would like the 1500 reduced.

That is all 60 Riftdross / 60 RiftCinder is a good number for a quest.

1500 is where the issue is created. Please change this number to 200-300.

150-200 might be fair if they make the drop rate and distribution more reasonable.

DrStrangelove

02-04-2012, 12:32 PM

If you can make tons of gil, whats so hard about relics? Nothing, Empyreans require more effort, always have. And doing the 95 stage costs more then relics. Anyway, get out of my thread with your off topic comments. Empyrean trials for 95 and 99 are terrible, no one here cares about your boohooing that relics are easier then a 90 emp, and less expensive then a 95 emp.

The current amount of plates (1,500) is good as is.

1) Empys can be easily made into an endgame weapon (level 90) with zero cost. Zero. And hardly any work. WOW. Relics and mythic owners wish they had that. Empy's have a perfectly easy ride to 90.

2) If you want to upgrade it to 95, 1,500 plates is reasonable. 300 is simply a handout. That's the cost of 10% of a mythic just to make a mythic level 75. And with far less work.

3) Riftcinder/dross can be farmed at no cost or purchased. Even bought, the cost is still well WELL below a mythic.

Here is what you are asking:

A) let us have our free and easy preezy weapons to level 90
B) let us have them get to 99 for a fraction of what mythics and relics cost!
C) don't blame us because we like it that way!

I think end game level 99 weapons should take some time and effort. If you get it easy preezy at the start, then you have to make up for it at the end.

That's not the way to have good game balance. Now, let's stop asking for the best weapons to be easy!

DrStrangelove

02-04-2012, 12:39 PM

I would like the 1500 reduced.

That is all 60 Riftdross / 60 RiftCinder is a good number for a quest.

1500 is where the issue is created. Please change this number to 200-300.

1500 is Good. Let's NOT forget all the people who have already done the 1,500. If people are getting these done what is the PROBLEM!!

detlef

02-04-2012, 01:20 PM

I've finished the HMP stage and am 90% done with the Riftcinder stage of my harp. I can say that right now, 1500 is almost reasonable (1000 is a good compromise number). Right now. But this is only because the demand for HMP isn't that high.

If no new sources of HMP or rift items are added then there will simply be no new 95/99 empyreans. Right now people have no motivation to really try and upgrade empyreans because the upgrades are so small and the 99 trial isn't even in the game yet. However, the current supply will dry up and people will eventually stop doing Jeuno and Zilart T3 VW fights. Then what?

Erics

02-04-2012, 01:42 PM

B) let us have them get to 99 for a fraction of what mythics and relics cost!
!

You do know relics are a lot cheaper then empy's HMP stage don't you?

Geabrielle

02-04-2012, 01:54 PM

Zinato

02-04-2012, 02:16 PM

You do know relics are a lot cheaper then empy's HMP stage don't you?

Average currency piece is 7.5k-10k you need 17.5k-18.5k to make relic. That's 131,250,000 to 185m. HMP are currently 100k each, 150m total, right near the middle. That assumes you choose to farm 0 plates. Also if the average person can get 200 pieces of currency a day in a 2hr dynamis (being generous) then 20 plates (taking currency to be 10k apiece at lower values it takes less plates) in a 2hr period would equal the effort in terms of farming. Pouches from experience are 1/4 and 12 kills in 2hr is reasonable (that's one kill in 10 minutes) and not limited to once a day. In rough numbers currency and plate farming go at the same speed at a ratio of 10:1 (which is equivalent cost)

Emyprean in many cases are also superior at 90 to relics at 95/99. If its going to be powerful enough to be in the same class as relic/mythic then the effort to get it should be comparable, and whose to say empyrean should be easiest of the three to obtain? And, of the three empyrean is the only one unsubject to daily wait times. That is where the "added" effort comes in empyrean, aren't forced to wait for JP midnight.

Vold

02-04-2012, 02:22 PM

all the people Yeah all 20 of them are rolling along ain't they

detlef

02-04-2012, 02:24 PM

There's no motivation because of the incredibly high number needed. The super motivated people are like you, Phil, and have burned down to spamming campaign and GoV or buy voiddust to feed the beast. The rest of the folks can't be arsed, have better things to do or just say 'screw it'. These are supposed to be the casual sort of weapons and as much as I'd love to scream for 150-200 I'd just as gladly take 500 because if the pattern holds true there won't be any more plate mobs and just a pouch mob or two.
I'm gonna argue just to argue for a moment. Not because this is what I believe but I'm just wondering... Are we sure that empyreans are supposed to be be casual? I think SE had that in mind originally but who knows with them. Maybe the backlash from all the relic owners got to them, which is weird because that suggests that SE was listening.

As for the rest of that stuff I pretty much agree with you that a lot of it is the high number of plates needed, but I think it's equal parts that and the lackluster boost you get at 95. I'm hopeful that SE adds HMP and rift items to the next round of VW (Tavnazia and Aht Urhgan okgo). I don't see how it's possible for them not to.

Zinato

02-04-2012, 02:38 PM

Its very likely they will add to new VW but, they also want players to do all VW and not show favorites, these items are a way to force those NMs to stay relevant.

As far as the "casual" weapon I don't think that was intended. When abyssea was introduced at 80 those stage 1 fights were rather rough and took much larger groups. (one atma, less working knowledge of TE, fewer temps) At the time they were relatively rare. It was at 85 that abyssea started to get away from them turning into the light/brew/godmode fest it is now. This especially holds true at 90 with the mass production of brews, the three high tier atma and temps made empyrean the "everyone weapon"

Lets not forget abyssea was once ment to be a once a few days event like dynamis occasionally dropping TE. That is until players discovered how to influence TE, it was then the age of abyssea was born. If you have any doubts try "farming" an empyrean stage 1 with just one visions atma and no empyrean over 80, or a stage 2 with just 2 atma scars or before.

Geabrielle

02-04-2012, 02:53 PM

I'm gonna argue just to argue for a moment. Not because this is what I believe but I'm just wondering... Are we sure that Empyreans are supposed to be be casual? I think SE had that in mind originally but who knows with them. Maybe the backlash from all the relic owners got to them, which is weird because that suggests that SE was listening.

Casual was the way Empyrean was pitched, with the paced NM camps and the fetch quests in the super easy Abyssea zones. It was casual enough to allow ease of completion but with the proc system made team work necessary to get optimal drop rates. I do agree with you that the backlash from the relic holders could be what prompted the increase in Empyrean difficulty but we see what the answer to that was. The stinking bomb of a 1500 item collection, the redux of Dynamis which made their updates to 90's easier with the downside of producing MORE relics with relative ease.

Now what we have here is a scramble to put things back on track, I suppose. If they are listening, and I hope SE is indeed listening, let's have some negotiations here. Can we get an approximate estimation on how much we can chip off? 500 to start and negotiate simple because our plate options are limited with no foreseeable alternatives.

Insaniac

02-04-2012, 08:10 PM

Drop the HMP requirement to 150 and they will be 1mil each within 6 hours. The good news would be you could actually get 150 HMPs just from spamming VW for a few weeks.

Tamoa

02-04-2012, 09:05 PM

Lets not forget abyssea was once ment to be a once a few days event like dynamis occasionally dropping TE.

I'm sorry but I really disagree with that statement. If that was the case, why did SE make it work the way it does (lights, TEs etc). Do you really think they underestimated their player base that much, thinking we'd never figure out how to squeeze as much out of Abyssea as possible?

As for the 95 trial, I think I've made it pretty clear previously how I feel about it. And others have brought up a very good point regarding supply. If the "ticket" changes for ra/ex items means what I think it means, it's not as good a change as I thought it was, and it won't include or affect heavy metal plates. At some point, the amount of fights where plates/pouches can drop, will drop. And drop drastically. Price on heavy metal is already on the way up, at least on Asura. It's all looking rather bleak at the moment, to be honest. :(

Kysaiana

02-04-2012, 10:59 PM

1500 plates is a terrible number. Anyone who thinks it's fine are people that sat in abyssea for days farming crour to buy the plates which probably meant camping VW zones to buy them at the source. If plates were a 100% drop and didn't take up the "good" slot in VW and actually dropped from more than T3 jeuno/zilart and T6 jeuno, then maybe 1500 would be reasonable.
I would much rather build a relic and leave it at 95 than blow 150-200 mil gil on ONE trial. The current price on siren for riftdross/cinder is 1.5mil x 60 is 90 mil which is still cheaper than the 95 trial.

The relic and mythic 99 trials suck too, but at least if you somehow manage to get 18 people to help you, the weapons get added ws damage. Empyreans get a few base damage and stats.

hiko

02-04-2012, 11:16 PM

1500 is Good. Let's NOT forget all the people who have already done the 1,500. If people are getting these done what is the PROBLEM!!
(removed useless font)
30000 alex is good, Let's not forget all the people who have already done the 30k.......

Tamoa

02-04-2012, 11:34 PM

1500 is Good. Let's NOT forget all the people who have already done the 1,500. If people are getting these done what is the PROBLEM!!

How the hell did I miss this post lol.

Yeah by all means let's not forget ALL the people who voluntarily blew 150+ mil gil on this trial. And seriously, how many do you think have completed the 95 stage across all servers compared to the total number of empyrean weapon owners? Not to mention the fact that many players have multiple empyrean weapons.

Love such rubbish coming from a level 1 mule.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 01:32 AM

Yeah by all means let's not forget ALL the people who voluntarily blew 150+ mil gil on this trial. And seriously, how many do you think have completed the 95 stage across all servers compared to the total number of empyrean weapon owners? Not to mention the fact that many players have multiple empyrean weapons.

You are sooo right. There are over 16,000 empyreans. That's how easy and desirable they really are. In a few months they have dwarfed what relics took 8 years to get.

That's just super DESIRABLE.

As you said, any one who wants to, get multiples of these. There are people with 10 or more of these. In a few months.

EASY PREEZY.

Empys are excellent weapons at 90, which is where anyone who wants to can easily get the weapon.

FOR ZERO COST.

Now. lets wah-wah-wah, to get the 95 and 99 trials made easy preezy too.

Let's not...SE has it right. Let's finally put some work into the empy so IF we want to have 12 level 99 empyreans we have to work for it.

No more HANDOUTS!!

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 01:36 AM

I would much rather build a relic and leave it at 95 than blow 150-200 mil gil on ONE trial.

I agree! Then that's what you should do.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 01:39 AM

You do know relics are a lot cheaper then empy's HMP stage don't you?

Relics currency $120 million and umbrals $100 million = $220 million

Mythics $300 million + PW drops

Empys $150 million plates and $60 million rift = $210 million

I'm not sure what math you are using. $300 million > $220 million > $210 million where I live.

Now let's all agree....

EMPYS are already far cheaper to make than mythics and relics.

Zinato

02-05-2012, 01:41 AM

Personally, (Incoming Opinion) I think the WS on empyrean should be locked in abyssea only until stage 95 is complete. That would put empyrean on par with relic and mythic the way it should be. As it is even with the 1500 plates players have little to no reason to invest in empyrean what was required in the other super weapons. The fact there are more Kinnagi + Almace then all relic and more Empy scythes then all mythic is just sad. And the worst part is these weapons only have to be at 90 to complete with 99 versions of the other two. Make that adjustment and sure cut dross/cinder to 5-10.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 01:44 AM

Drop the HMP requirement to 150 and they will be 1mil each within 6 hours. The good news would be you could actually get 150 HMPs just from spamming VW for a few weeks.

There are people who got the 1,500 plates done in a month. It's not hard to do. If you want to....

Insaniac

02-05-2012, 01:46 AM

Unless you think people are paying 80mil for a single marrow you missed the post about it being 5 instead of 20.

So to correct you:

120 + 100 = 220
150 + 60 = 210 (not including the opportunity cost of Emp items which is hard to quantify cause there aren't always buyers.)

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 01:47 AM

...these weapons only have to be at 90 to complete with 99 versions of the other two.

Exactly. Easy to make to 90, already a super weapon and now there are 16,000 empyreans.

There is nothing here to fix. 1,500 plates and 60 rift drops are fine.

Neisan_Quetz

02-05-2012, 01:49 AM

And people have gotten relics finished in a month, what's your point?

The only Empyreans with an advantage over relic counterparts at 95 are Ukonvasara, Kannagi (debateable with Shun, haven't checked math), Almace, Masamune, and Verethragna (Almost gone with Shijin Spiral's release). Armageddon is only better for Cor since they can't use relic, same with Twash for Dnc. Daurdabla and Gjaller don't actually compete with each other unless you only go for one, in which cause Daurdabla.

Insaniac

02-05-2012, 01:50 AM

There are people who got the 1,500 plates done in a month. It's not hard to do. If you want to....What's your point? My post is about the fact that lowering the requirement to 150 would push the demand up so high because it would be seen as attainable by that many more people. The up side would be that you actually could farm ALL your own plates through VW if you didn't want to spend gil on them. You know, just like relics. Pay exuberant amounts of money or put in some real work.

Tamoa

02-05-2012, 02:06 AM

Relics currency $120 million and umbrals $400 million = $520 million

Sure, because the average joe working on a relic these days buys all the currency, right? Somehow I don't think so, lol.

But you know what? I don't think there's much point in arguing with you, you're either just a massive troll, or you might be one of those relic holders who got their weapon loooong before neo-dynamis and you're just butthurt that the easy-to-get empyrean counterpart crushes your relic.

The facts are these: If you want to finish this trial by getting the vast majority of plates without buying them, there is no telling how long it will take before you finish, it could easily be 1 year if not more. All depending on several things - luck as far as drops go, and your ability to spam the right voidwatch fights. You'll run out of stones fast. You'll run out of IS/CP/AN fast. You then have to do a LOT of campaign, being the most effective way of obtaining voiddust, to keep up. And that will slow you down as far as spamming voidwatch goes, adding to the total amount of time it'll take you to finish. Or, you need to buy voiddust, which will make each set of fights cost you around 100k gil. And all this for ONE SINGLE STAGE, for taking your weapon from lvl 90 to lvl 95.

If you can't see what a massive problem the 1500 heavy metal plates pose for a lot of people, and the fact that it might end up being near impossible to finish the trial in the not-too-distant future due to lack of supply, then I don't know if there's anything else I or anyone else can tell you to make you change your view on this.

Edit: wtf @ 400mil for the umbral marrows?

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 02:37 AM

If you can't see what a massive problem the 1500 heavy metal plates pose for a lot of people, and the fact that it might end up being near impossible to finish the trial in the not-too-distant future due to lack of supply, then I don't know if there's anything else I or anyone else can tell you to make you change your view on this.

People were done with 1,500 plates 2+ months ago. On my server people are done on the 99. Rift drops are in dozens of mules bazaars while other people are out spamming the VW fights to get their own.

I'm not sure what problem you are talking about...

Oh wait....you mean the problem that all 16,000 empyreans can't be done easily or cheaply in a few weeks?

That's not a problem. EVERY EMPYREAN IS NOT GOING TO MAKE IT TO 99.

Get used to that idea and this will all make sense.

Everyone's not going to have Toci's harness or Coruscanti or 16 relics or20 mythics. It's fine if they don't.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 02:42 AM

What's your point? My post is about the fact that lowering the requirement to 150 would push the demand up so high because it would be seen as attainable by that many more people. The up side would be that you actually could farm ALL your own plates through VW if you didn't want to spend gil on them. You know, just like relics. Pay exuberant amounts of money or put in some real work.

Everyone is not supposed to have a 99 empyrean. It's not like running water or heat; it's not a basic minimum requirement to have fun or be a success in final fantasy.

Dozens, if not hundreds have empys have already been upgraded to 95. It does no one any good to screw them over by now dropping the requirement to 150. Go out, work and get your empy to 95 IF YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT IT.

It's not hard.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 02:46 AM

Edit: wtf @ 400mil for the umbral marrows?

Good catch. (/embarassed)

My bad. I was using 20 x $20 million, not 5 x $20 million. It's still more than or equal to empys depends on server.

The $20 million is probably too low for umbrals, but that is the lowest price people are posting it should sell for, if it ever gets sold.

In reality, most relics will never be able to get to 99, because, ADL won't be done that much. Unlike VW mobs, he can't be spammed 24/7.

Tamoa

02-05-2012, 02:59 AM

Anyone can, if they want to, make a relic. In fact, they can solo it. They can get all the currency they need on their own, they don't have to depend on other people for it. They can do dynamis every day for as long as it takes them to finish - solo. They can solo much of the trials past 75, and only need the help from a couple of friends to take their relic to 95. They actually don't have to spend more than a few k gil to get a level 95 relic (those few k being for upgrade items). And all of that doesn't even have to take very long at all.

Anyone wanting to take their empyrean from 90 to 95, need either a) LOTS of time and luck and patience, or b) a shitton of gil. And either way, they depend on enough people doing the appropriate voidwatch fights so they can join or make runs, or buy plates.

And on Asura, you'll be quite lucky to find plates for 100k. 130k or more seem to be the norm these days. 195mil+ to upgrade one weapon ONE stage, sounds quite ok to you I guess?

Edit: for the record, I'm not saying SE should lower the requirement to 150 plates. That would actually screw me over too. What I'm saying though, is that they should increase the supply substantially.

Neisan_Quetz

02-05-2012, 03:10 AM

The fuck? lolFFXIAH but still, there's what a handful of confirmed 95 empyreans across all servers? You call that as 'people were done with HMPs'? Are you high?

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 03:16 AM

Anyone can, if they want to, make a relic. In fact, they can solo it. They can get all the currency they need on their own, they don't have to depend on other people for it. They can do dynamis every day for as long as it takes them to finish - solo. They can solo much of the trials past 75, and only need the help from a couple of friends to take their relic to 95. They actually don't have to spend more than a few k gil to get a level 95 relic (those few k being for upgrade items). And all of that doesn't even have to take very long at all.

Anyone wanting to take their empyrean from 90 to 95, need either a) LOTS of time and luck and patience, or b) a shitton of gil. And either way, they depend on enough people doing the appropriate voidwatch fights so they can join or make runs, or buy plates.

And on Asura, you'll be quite lucky to find plates for 100k. 130k or more seem to be the norm these days. 195mil to upgrade one weapon ONE stage, sounds quite ok to you I guess?

The proof is in the pudding!

Using FFXI's census:

8 years 4,000 relics (500/year)
i year, 12,000 empyreans (12,000 / year)

So your point was that relics are easy to do and cheap, and that empys are hard to do and expensive. Pudding doesn't taste the way you promised.

Here is what you should say:

EMPYs are easy to do and cheaper than relics. See, that matches the pudding exactly.

Now, lets add this:

EMPYs are easy to do and cheaper than relics, and we want them to be made even cheaper and easier.

Voila! This is the thread we are in!!

Geabrielle

02-05-2012, 03:23 AM

Digressing!

Recap, Dev Bros! Lower the 1500 plate requirement to something reasonable. 500 for the upper limits and 150 for those of us who are blatantly pointing out what natural progression should have been! If this is not acceptable then please raise the base amount within the heavy metal plate pouches! Seriously, popping one and getting 3 plates is beyond frustration. Use the cotton pouch approach, no less than 10 and up to the possibility of 25. I could even argue for the linen pouch approach of upwards to 99, but do something about it. Either reduction or increase of pouch output.

Thanks!

Tamoa

02-05-2012, 03:25 AM

The proof is in the pudding!

Using FFXI's census:

8 years 4,000 relics (500/year)
i year, 12,000 empyreans (12,000 / year)

So your point was that relics are easy to do and cheap, and that empys are hard to do and expensive. Pudding doesn't taste the way you promised.

Comparing the work/gil needed for a relic back before Abyssea and neo-dynamis, to the work/gil needed to make an empyrean, is pointless. There were no such thing as empyrean weapons back then.

I'm comparing what's needed to obtain a level 95 relic today with what's needed for a level 95 empyrean weapon. Just in case that totally escaped you.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 03:58 AM

Comparing the work/gil needed for a relic back before Abyssea and neo-dynamis, to the work/gil needed to make an empyrean, is pointless. There were no such thing as empyrean weapons back then.

I'm comparing what's needed to obtain a level 95 relic today with what's needed for a level 95 empyrean weapon. Just in case that totally escaped you.

Right-o! Let's not let the facts divert our attention!

Empyreans can be done from start to finish solo or at most duo. This is well documented all over every FFXI website with people explaining exactly how they did it. So the point is moot.

The only real point is that empys and relics and mythics done solo:

1) take longest for mythics and next longest for relics. So empys don't need to be made easier
2) are most expensive for mythics and next for relics. So empys don't need to be made less expensive.

There....you are right! We've summed up the issue nicely.

Kudos to SE for handing this well this time around. It took some work, but it finally makes sense.

Doing anything to make empys EASIER and CHEAPER now would not only be a a grand slap in the face to the hundreds of level 95 empys and many 99 empys, but a complete error regarding relics and mythics.

EMPYS are easy preezy to 90 that can be soloed/duoed quickly with no gil. They are excellent weapons at that point. Should anyone want to take the empys to 95 or 99, they would expect to work for it and not be given another easy road to the finish line.

Insaniac

02-05-2012, 04:05 AM

Neisan_Quetz

02-05-2012, 04:06 AM

It's pretty clear he's just trolling right now.

Zinato

02-05-2012, 04:13 AM

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 04:13 AM

The fuck? lolFFXIAH but still, there's what a handful of confirmed 95 empyreans across all servers? You call that as 'people were done with HMPs'? Are you high?

You're joking right?

SE knows how many there are.

On my server there are single linkshells with 3 or 4 level 95 empys. People have been posting level 95 empys on BG since September. So clearly there are more than a 'handful' across all servers.

newmonkey

02-05-2012, 04:14 AM

He's not exactly trolling is he empys are free and easy to get to 90 at which point they are great weapons with a quality aftermath and in most cases a quality weapon skill, i think the ws and aftermath should have been unlocked on the 95 and 99 version but thats another story.

Ok that aside by the time both weapons are 99 relics will have cost more gil then empys again, so what exactly is the problem here ? Sure a lot of people may spend 3 months in dyna soloing there relics as far as they can but there is a lot of people who buy up currency still as i know for one i couldn't be arsed to spam dyna everyday it's a bore fest.

Make it so hmp drop a lot more but there is no need to lower the amount needed.

Tamoa

02-05-2012, 04:15 AM

Doing anything to make empys EASIER and CHEAPER now would not only be a a grand slap in the face to the hundreds of level 95 empys and many 99 empys, but a complete error regarding relics and mythics.

Hundreds of level 95 empys? Really? Really????

And PLEASE show me ONE SINGLE level 99 empyrean weapon on ANY live server. Guess what? You can't.

Troll more please.

detlef

02-05-2012, 04:17 AM

Zinato

02-05-2012, 04:24 AM

Make it so hmp drop FROM a lot more PLACES but there is no need to lower the amount needed.

The caps are how I would augment that. but I mostly agree even if my version isn't the case, Newmonkey's original method isn't a bad second place.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 04:25 AM

Sounds to me Tamao is less about a reduction and more saying. VW sucks players don't want to do it, please make this content relevant so we can farm/buy plates. <- (Blunt version) I think the DEVs plan to add HMP to future VW/content would be shocking even by their standards not to.

This is a completely different point and one well worth supporting. Is the content relevant for people to do VW where plates and rift items fall?

That is the same issue for PW and ADL. So, yes, a correct thread would be:

SE please tell us how you plan to keep these mobs relevant so supply for super weapons does not dwindle.

This is what SE should be looking at. Asking that an easy to make weapon be made easier after people are already making them is NOT a winning strategy.

No one reduced the requirements for relics and mythics (excluding the one quick change).

Tamoa

02-05-2012, 04:28 AM

As I've said before, the only argument for 1500/60 is that people are still spamming VW right now. Well maybe not now anymore... The number of VW shouts is essentially nothing now, and the few groups that shout end up dying at 5/18. I joined a JP Akvan shout group that shouted for an hour and ended up with 2 PLD, a BST, a RDM, and 2 BRDs. Lovely.

I realize this is really more a critique of VW than the trial but I feel that the half of the trial's difficulty is the supply of trial items.

Exactly. This trial has the potential of becoming impossible to finish due to decreasing interest in voidwatch, meaning the supply of heavy metal plates will drop to near nothing. And as this thread's #1 troll fails to understand, that is my one main problem with trial. People who want to upgrade their empyrean weapon to 95, cannot go solo some voidwatch fights for plates.

Neisan_Quetz

02-05-2012, 04:29 AM

If there's hundreds and hundreds of 95 emps why are there only a handful of confirmed 95 ones versus 90s?

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 04:34 AM

Exactly. This trial has the potential of becoming impossible to finish due to decreasing interest in voidwatch, meaning the supply of heavy metal plates will drop to near nothing. And as this thread's #1 troll fails to understand, that is my one main problem with trial. People who want to upgrade their empyrean weapon to 95, cannot go solo some voidwatch fights for plates.

Please don't call me a troll, since a) I'm not and b) my parents weren't trolls. I have a relic and an empy. I've done a lot of work to get both and I've helped a lot of people to get theirs. The posts I'm making are factual and correct and not intended to cause a fight. Their my opinion.

You seem to think that if someone does not agree with, that calling them a name, wins the argument. Reminds me of third grade.

After you edit your post, I will be able to give you a thumbs up.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 04:37 AM

If there's hundreds and hundreds of 95 emps why are there only a handful of confirmed 95 ones versus 90s?

I'm not sure of what you mean by 'confirmed." There are 95's posted on Blue Gartr and they have been routinely posted since September. There are LS's with several.

Why would you think that only a handful exist?

Neisan_Quetz

02-05-2012, 04:39 AM

Compared to the 90 versions yes, only a handful of 95s exist. There is no 'hundreds and hundreds' of 95s. Stop exaggerating.

wish12oz

02-05-2012, 04:47 AM

Please don't call me a troll, since a) I'm not and b) my parents weren't trolls.

You're posting bullcrap from a level 1 character, hi, you're a troll.

Tamoa

02-05-2012, 04:48 AM

Please don't call me a troll, since a) I'm not and b) my parents weren't trolls. You seem to think that if someone does not agree with, that calling them a name, wins the argument. Reminds me of third grade.

After you edit your post, I will be able to give you a thumbs up.

I'm calling you a troll since you come here, posting anonymously, seemingly only posting your opinions on the matter to create arguments. And making claims like there being "hundreds of 95 empyreans" and that you know of linkshells with several 95 empyreans. Anyone can make claims like that. Makes it even easier when you're on a level 1 mule. Oh and the fact that you apparently ignore half of what others say doesn't help your case.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 04:54 AM

You're posting bullcrap from a level 1 character, hi, you're a troll.

Bull crap is your opinion. Your posts are bull crap, so I guess that makes you a troll too.

Oh but wait...this is rich. If you are level 1, then you are a troll. I see...level 99 characters CAN'T be trolls.

I looked it up...nope sorry. The definition of troll does not include the character level.

So, we're both trolls. We both post bull crap. In fact, since almost every post that everyone makes is considered bullcrap by someone, then everyone is a troll.

You're a real piece of work.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 04:57 AM

I'm calling you a troll since you come here, posting anonymously, seemingly only posting your opinions on the matter to create arguments. And making claims like there being "hundreds of 95 empyreans" and that you know of linkshells with several 95 empyreans. Anyone can make claims like that. Makes it even easier when you're on a level 1 mule.

I'm sorry that facts get in your way. I'm sorry that when they do, you prefer to ignore them or call people names. MOST of your posts are opinion. No one's called you names or called you a troll.

I guess the rest of us can deal with people's statements rather than resort to name calling. Such is life....

Oh and the fact that you apparently ignore half of what others say doesn't help your case.

People are completing level 95 and 99 empys. You are ignoring that fact.

Mythics and relics cost more than empys. You are ignoring that fact.

Mythics and relics take longer to complete than empys. You are ignoring that fact.

These are the 3 MOST IMPORTANT facts in this thread. Ignore them because the thread has no raison d'etre otherwise.

wish12oz

02-05-2012, 04:59 AM

Hi. Quit derailing my thread, that alone makes you a troll.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 05:03 AM

Hi. Quit derailing my thread, that alone makes you a troll.

When it becomes your forum, you can make that call. Now let's move on, or just keep talking about me!

Neisan_Quetz

02-05-2012, 05:10 AM

Claims 'ignoring facts' gets in others way > claims hundreds of emps are 95 with no proof > just lol.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 05:17 AM

Claims 'ignoring facts' gets in others way > claims hundreds of emps are 95 with no proof > just lol.

I'm sorry..you said there was a handful. Did you support that claim? No, I didn't think so.

I said hundreds and I helped you with it. There are 16 servers. (Do you need me to prove that?)

There are linkshells on my server that alone have 3 or 4 in one shell. People have posted on BG since September with 95 Empys. Do you know how to get to BG?

There are discussions on Alla, FFXIonline, FFXIAH and BG since September on getting plates. Do I need to link to those?

Maybe YOU should do more than NOTHING to prove there are handfuls. I've done something to prove my point.

Or maybe you should IGNORE the fact that you've done nothing to prove your point.

Just LOL. Being able to see in only one direction does not make you right. It just shows you have trouble inside your cocoon seeing out.

MarkovChain

02-05-2012, 05:19 AM

If there's hundreds and hundreds of 95 emps why are there only a handful of confirmed 95 ones versus 90s?

Probably because FFXIAH purposely doesn't list them and that is the only way to register them. I don't think there are only a few level 95 atm seing as the riftcinder/dross market seems pretty camped on my server. Isn't saying "there is a handful of level 95 ones" an exageration either ? It's mostly a solo activity, doesn't require any team work of any kind etc.

Neisan_Quetz

02-05-2012, 05:27 AM

I'm sorry..you said there was a handful. Did you support that claim? No, I didn't think so.

I said hundreds and I helped you with it. There are 16 servers. (Do you need me to prove that?)

There are linkshells on my server that alone have 3 or 4 in one shell. People have posted on BG since September with 95 Empys. Do you know how to get to BG?

There are discussions on Alla, FFXIonline, FFXIAH and BG since September on getting plates. Do I need to link to those?

Maybe YOU should do more than NOTHING to prove there are handfuls. I've done something to prove my point.

Or maybe you should IGNORE the fact that you've done nothing to prove your point.

Just LOL. Being able to see in only one direction does not make you right. It just shows you have trouble inside your cocoon seeing out.

I went back to the completed magian thread to confirm (lol 'do you know how to get to BG', it's pretty obvious you saw roughly 3 posts of completed 95s and said 'oh people are doing 95s, this must mean there's many of them across all servers'), there were ~6 completed 95 emps posted. Your ls is an additional 4. Pchan makes 2 more. That still doesn't constitute 'hundreds', as you claim, have been completed.

EDIT: I actually missed the JP who did 95 Almace, so +1 more.

Tamoa

02-05-2012, 05:36 AM

I know of one guy on Asura with 95 Verethragna, he doesn't post on BG and isn't registered on ffxiah. And I found 5 additional ones on ffxiah. Hey, that's a total of 19 level 95 weapons, we're almost in the hundreds now.

Erics

02-05-2012, 05:41 AM

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 05:47 AM

I went back to the completed magian thread to confirm (lol 'do you know how to get to BG', it's pretty obvious you saw roughly 3 posts of completed 95s and said 'oh people are doing 95s, this must mean there's many of them across all servers'), there were ~6 completed 95 emps posted. Your ls is an additional 4. Pchan makes 2 more. That still doesn't constitute 'hundreds', as you claim, have been completed.

EDIT: I actually missed the JP who did 95 Almace, so +1 more.

I saw 4 posted on BG by 11/23. (The thread all but died in early December.)

I guess we can ask what we think? How many of those that are made, are then posted on BG? I have personally seen several around town that weren't posted. How many have been made since 11/23? Either way, you and I are both guessing.

I think we can agree that it's somewhere between a handful and hundreds. If you say it's on the low end, I can't prove you're wrong. If I say it's on the high end, you can't prove I'm wrong. Is the number more like 50 rather than 200? Idk.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 05:57 AM

Everyone is not supposed to have a 99 empyrean. It's not like running water or heat; it's not a basic minimum requirement to have fun or be a success in final fantasy.

Dozens, if not hundreds have empys have already been upgraded to 95. It does no one any good to screw them over by now dropping the requirement to 150. Go out, work and get your empy to 95 IF YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT IT.

It's not hard.

By the way, here is my original post. My post was obviously more accurate than my memory of my post.

Dozens seems like the best original estimate, which jives with what the haters say.

Bravo! We have more agreement.

Now let's move on and get SE to make sure there are enough people doing ADL, VW and PW to make this work. And let's stop asking for the carpool lane.

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 05:57 AM

....There's clearly something wrong with you.

I assume you think there is something wrong with being tolerant and mature.

Registeel

02-05-2012, 06:35 AM

Nynja

02-05-2012, 06:40 AM

why is a lv1 character getting in a heated discussion about lv99 content?

zagam

02-05-2012, 06:52 AM

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 06:53 AM

why is a lv1 character getting in a heated discussion about lv99 content?

Probably because I know it and am making polite contributions to the thread.

If your thinly veiled attempt at an insult isn't helping you, you might want to resort to attacking my mother or blacklisting me.

Registeel

02-05-2012, 06:55 AM

So because it started easy it should stay easy? Your logic is amazing. Maybe SE realized the pink-Kannagi ratio was over 50% and decided to make something actually hard.

No, I think it should stay reasonable but like I said take what I say worth a grain of salt. Disclaimers!

Edit: Suppose I should define my personal "reasonable". 500 per I think is reasonable. My ideal wish? 300. Once again, grains of sodium chloride etc etc

DrStrangelove

02-05-2012, 07:15 AM

So, when I see so many players get their 95 relic ridiculously fast after obtaining the 75, and the only 95 empyrean holders I see are people that are constantly shouting for heavy metal plates whenever they're on... is it that fair then? You say empyreans are 'easy peasy', I say upgrading relics past 75 is easy peasy (up to the new 99). Just because getting all the currency for the original relic takes a good while, or because mythics are mythic, is absolutely no reason for the out-of-nowhere 1500 HMP punch to the chest. It's like a person who is undergoing suffering from a tragedy wishing for other people to suffer as well, just so they aren't the only ones suffering. Except in this case it's people who suffered (note the bold and the time tense, kids!) demanding others experience similar or worse ventures.

But I guess what I say is to be taken with little salt, as I am the 'easy peasy lemon squeasy meesy cheesy why do you repeat your wierd phrases dude seriously' casual type who's only been playing for a bit over a year. Scrub force out.

Let's say you have 3 children...lets call them Sally, Joe and Flo.

Sally has a huge amount of homework. But Joe and Flo have not only less, but they both have exactly the same homework after school. You tell Sally that she can't watch TV until her homework is done. Unfortunately for her, it's almost bedtime when she's done.

You tell Joe he has to do his homework now, and then he can watch TV. You tell Flo, that she can watch TV first, and then you has to do her homework.

Joe does his homework, while Flo watches TV. Then its time to switch. Flo yells "why do I have to do so much homework. It's too much. And Joe gets to watch TV now. Why does he get to have fun when I can't. It's not fair. Cut my homework by 90%, then I will be happy."

Sally is the mythic, Joe is the relic and Flo is the empy.

This thread is mostly about Flo asking dad and mom to cut the homework because it's too much and is not fair.

Registeel

02-05-2012, 07:30 AM

Nah. I'd say it's more like they have homework for different subjects with different material, in different schools. But alas, my analogy skills are meager and my opinion only speaks for one 'casual'.

Zinato

02-05-2012, 08:17 AM

People keep debating cost, that may be the issue. Cost is unstable changing from server to server, over time and even by time of day. The answer to all problems isn't throw money at it until it goes away. Empyrean and Relic can both be bought from the moment the relic drops or weapon is removed from the magian chest. What I'm saying is debating cost is pointless as it not an accurate exchange, nor does buying something require effort. (example: player A from server A claims HMP is 100k player B from server B says but wait 100k is way to low its 120k, and both players are forced to change the value 3 weeks from now when prices spike.)

Want to debate the balance of the weapons? Do it by effort, time restrictions, minimum players needed, total time needed to create, and do it start to finish keeping Gil out. I'd put money on the fact SE did not intend these weapons to be purchased to begin with, at best the ability to buy came from the option to trade. Gil is too common and cheap to make an argument either way.

That aside, there are two different arguments going one is: make the trial require less vs leave it. The other is leave the trial and up availability (drop rate or places to find are both being brought up) vs keep HMP/cinder/dross where it is.

Ravenmore

02-05-2012, 08:21 AM

The very same thing that happen with mystic will soon happen to Emp. Hell there were few doing salvage at 75 and by few not the whole server that SE was banking on when they said mystics would be easier then relics. Then Alex was going for 3 to 4k now you are lucky to see it for 12 to 15k with most of that being people that have given up on them and are clearing out thier stock pile.

Camiie

02-05-2012, 01:01 PM

So because it started easy it should stay easy? Your logic is amazing. Maybe SE realized the pink-Kannagi ratio was over 50% and decided to make something actually hard.

The difficulty should be progressive. Each trial should be a bit harder or a bit more time consuming than the last. Good design simply doesn't go from 75 100% drop items with a high chance bonus item to 1500 extra rare items.

My idea would be like this:

95 Empyrean trial: 100 HMPs with a 50% chance one will appear in VW chest with proper light conditions. That would still be more items required at a reduced drop rate from the previous trial.

99 Empyrean trial: 125 dross/cinder with a 50% chance one will appear in VW chest with proper light conditions . More items with the same drop rate as the previous trial.

Geabrielle

02-05-2012, 01:18 PM

95 Empyrean trial: 100 HMPs with a 50% chance one will appear in VW chest with proper light conditions. That would still be more items required at a reduced drop rate from the previous trial.

99 Empyrean trial: 125 dross/cinder with a 50% chance one will appear in VW chest with proper light conditions . More items with the same drop rate as the previous trial.

Even though I cringed horribly at the 125 dross/cinder ... if this was the sort of balance implementation the Dev Bros go for I would be alright with it, if only because it follows the progression rate AND the proper difficulty rate for an ultimate level weapon.

Insaniac

02-05-2012, 04:14 PM

I assume you think there is something wrong with being tolerant and mature.No I assume that you are arguing with me about things that I'm not even talking about lol.

Nala

02-05-2012, 11:11 PM

DSL point is this content either has no effect on you or you do have a 90+ character and are too scared to take ownership of your opinion.

that said just because others did a trial at insane numbers doesn't mean they need to be punished, they could make it so a week before the modification peeps can trade thier weapon to the magian moogles for a refund of the difference between the trials. of course this would flood the market but honestly that'd be a good thing, and yeah those who still purchased 1500 HMP or 30k alex would still suffer a loss overall but the point is with empyrean weapons was they never should have been 1500, no one argued that number like we did with the 99 trials because no one thought they would release the trial as is.

Cream_Soda

02-06-2012, 12:31 AM

I agree with the OP.

In terms off base weapon to 95 version, emp is more work if you buy nothing than relic. (Doing all trials, doing VW for all metal plates).

If you buy, (buy all coins and all plates) emp is still more work (trials vs trials) AND more money (90 to 95 emp vs money spent on base relic)

newmonkey

02-06-2012, 12:55 AM

Why are we even comparing 95 the weapons are soon going to be 99 and its more work to get relics to 99 and more expensive.

95 trial sucks sure but lets not try to pretend empys are hard, we all know they are easy to get to 90 and let's face it the 90 versions are absolutley brilliant for the few days they take to make. Relics are easy now and i hate se for gimping it so anyone can goto dyna and solo the 75 verion in three months but to get both to 99 its costing more for relics.

By all means add more hmp to the game in the next update let it rain them for all i care.

Erics

02-06-2012, 01:49 AM

newmonkey

02-06-2012, 02:09 AM

I would love to see you make a 90 empyrean from the START(that means the weapon out of the chest) in a few days...

Edit: We are comparing 95's because you can not have 99's without 95.

From start to 90 my Ukon took 8 or 9 days and absolutley crippled my friends Bravura.

I've already said they should add more ways for hmp to drop but reducing the number from 1500 isnt the way. Funny thing is soon as the 99 weapons go live Atories has already finished his 99 ukon.

Sparthos

02-06-2012, 02:23 AM

From start to 90 my Ukon took 8 or 9 days and absolutley crippled my friends Bravura.

I've already said they should add more ways for hmp to drop but reducing the number from 1500 isnt the way. Funny thing is soon as the 99 weapons go live Atories has already finished his 99 ukon.

Because Atoreis represents the average player within the base.

I beat CoP before the nerfs, does that make me special? No, because the average player could barely get through missions and thus the content had to be eased down.

The Emp trials are designed in such a manner that you're supposed to just throw money at it, nevermind actually doing the content to get drops. HMPs? lol, you can do 20 Uptalas and get maybe.. 1 pouch loaded with a random number of plates. Got 2 in a pouch? Too bad, suck less.

It's not even like plates drop at a fair enough rate that buying would merely only speed up your finish. If you don't buy plates, you're not finishing the trial period. Cinder and Dross are pretty much in the same boat where the rate is so ass the only way you're making progress is to buy from people from 400k-2M/pc.

Further I could go into WoE weapons which are supposed to be "easier" to obtain yet the items for those trials are also completely fucktarded. Dice prices are all over the place, Liminal Residue would put finishing a 99 @25-30M after investing a previous 20-40M on the Dice trial.

tl;dr: SE get your head out of your ass.

Erics

02-06-2012, 03:18 AM

^ I don't think it could've been said better.

Edit: fail for a new page starting..

Avelonia

02-06-2012, 05:39 AM

The Emp trials are designed in such a manner that you're supposed to just throw money at it, nevermind actually doing the content to get drops. HMPs? lol, you can do 20 Uptalas and get maybe.. 1 pouch loaded with a random number of plates. Got 2 in a pouch? Too bad, suck less.

It's not even like plates drop at a fair enough rate that buying would merely only speed up your finish. If you don't buy plates, you're not finishing the trial period. Cinder and Dross are pretty much in the same boat where the rate is so ass the only way you're making progress is to buy from people from 400k-2M/pc.

This is by far my biggest gripe with the HMP and rift/cinder trials. It's literally impossible to complete them solely by doing the content, unlike the previous group of trials. You'd end up spending more money in voidstones than if you just bought the plates. In the same time frame you could probably farm yourself around 6 relics lol................

Neisan_Quetz

02-06-2012, 05:46 AM

newmonkey

02-06-2012, 06:01 AM

How do you figure that people even said maths proved that 90 Ukon would keep up with and surpass 99 Bravura so how do you figure the 95 Bravura isn't crippled by the 90 Ukon ?

MarkovChain

02-06-2012, 06:02 AM

This is by far my biggest gripe with the HMP and rift/cinder trials. It's literally impossible to complete them solely by doing the content, unlike the previous group of trials. You'd end up spending more money in voidstones than if you just bought the plates. In the same time frame you could probably farm yourself around 6 relics lol................

It's a good thing. It's not a good sign for the game if the whole server has to do THE content in order to progress. Everyone has been fed up with abyssea at one point or another. Finally now people are actually trading stuff through bazars or auction house (VW has sellable drops and soon is going to have sellable tickets). There is a point in being rich and it finally puts a hierarchy into the game. I can't imagine what this thread would have been if HMP/riftitems/pwitems/DLitems had been rare/ex.

Neisan_Quetz

02-06-2012, 06:10 AM

How do you figure that people even said maths proved that 90 Ukon would keep up with and surpass 99 Bravura so how do you figure the 95 Bravura isn't crippled by the 90 Ukon ?

Brovura is abit behind with BR up but otherwise can use Upheaval outside, which with a good set is not bad. If accuracy is a concern Brovura even comes out ahead of Ukon.

The real problems with Brovura is M Torment is somewhat lackluster due to the DT effect not really being necessary for anything (and having to use it to get the defense down effect, which isn't 100%), BR isn't as useful for noncrit ws (have to use Raging), and accuracy not being a huge concern for several fights (war either has enough of it or can get more elsewhere bar T6 VWNMs iirc).

Ravenmore

02-06-2012, 06:14 AM

It's a good thing. It's not a good sign for the game if the whole server has to do THE content in order to progress. Everyone has been fed up with abyssea at one point or another. Finally now people are actually trading stuff through bazars or auction house (VW has sellable drops and soon is going to have sellable tickets). There is a point in being rich and it finally puts a hierarchy into the game. I can't imagine what this thread would have been if HMP/riftitems/pwitems/DLitems had been rare/ex.

So weres that vid of you 6 manning ADL huh. Oh and lolgil any one with a whm and a war can FC there way into mils or they can spam Campain and sell voiddust and come out better then doing the content, least till people give up doing VW like they did with Salvage.

Camiie

02-06-2012, 06:16 AM

Sparthos

02-06-2012, 06:21 AM

Bravura gets the advantage in future scenarios where temp items won't be available and monsters with crit resistance start getting thrown around.

Neisan_Quetz

02-06-2012, 06:54 AM

Yea, if you're talking about VW Ukon is going to beat Brovura pretty handily there with refreshing temps, but I was assuming without. Although I did include unnerfed Miser's I geuss.

Zinato

02-06-2012, 06:56 AM

Just what we need to make the game fun! A socioeconomic hierarchy! It was more fun to me when gil didn't mean much. Now, once again, it's the deciding factor between elite and not. It's not skill or social connections... it's how much gil you can throw around... I usually break out the line that it's better to be lucky than good, but I guess in pchan's ideal world it's better to be rich than either one.

I feel bad for players forced to buy plates or other things like currency since, I've always looked down on the Throw gil at it approach. Someone who bought every plate/soul/horn on an ochain doesn't deserve to own one. Keep your bought weapons you certainly have no prestige for owning it. And, before people get upset because they bought half of something that's not what I mean. I mean players who bought start to finish 3+ empyrean and then claim to be "elite", I just see it as gimp.

MarkovChain

02-06-2012, 07:37 AM

I hope you have never brewed anything cos that would be pretty gimp if I follow your logic.

Just what we need to make the game fun! A socioeconomic hierarchy! It was more fun to me when gil didn't mean much. Now, once again, it's the deciding factor between elite and not. It's not skill or social connections... it's how much gil you can throw around... I usually break out the line that it's better to be lucky than good, but I guess in pchan's ideal world it's better to be rich than either one.

Correct, gil doesn't appear magically in your pocket. You are good <=> you have gil.

Nynja

02-06-2012, 07:42 AM

I hope you have never brewed anything cos that would be pretty gimp

like you brewed all your Draguas?
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Camiie

02-06-2012, 08:05 AM

I hope you have never brewed anything cos that would be pretty gimp if I follow your logic.

I've brewed before. I've also survived the old school HNM/sky/sea/Dynamis scene, teamed up with friends, done PUGs, and soloed as DNC or BST. I've also made gil and bought stuff off the AH before. I've had a pretty well rounded experience I'd say. If I'm gimp in your eyes, well that really doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

Correct, gil doesn't appear magically in your pocket. You are good <=> you have gil.

I've seen great players who never seem to have 2 gil to rub together, scrubs who seem to have an endless supply, and a whole lot in between. Just because you and SE seem to think gil is the ultimate measure of a player doesn't make it so.

Zinato

02-06-2012, 08:10 AM

I hope you have never brewed anything cos that would be pretty gimp if I follow your logic.

If you mean me, you are correct I have yet to brew even once. My cruor will likely go toward part 5 VW atmacite/KI

Also don't know how Buy items = Use brew

Ravenmore

02-06-2012, 08:10 AM

I feel bad for players forced to buy plates or other things like currency since, I've always looked down on the Throw gil at it approach. Someone who bought every plate/soul/horn on an ochain doesn't deserve to own one. Keep your bought weapons you certainly have no prestige for owning it. And, before people get upset because they bought half of something that's not what I mean. I mean players who bought start to finish 3+ empyrean and then claim to be "elite", I just see it as gimp.

To bad buying HMPs is the only way you will finish it before people throw the event to the way side. Doing the content slows you down when it should be the faster way of finishing.

Zinato

02-06-2012, 08:15 AM

To bad buying HMPs is the only way you will finish it before people throw the event to the way side. Doing the content slows you down when it should be the faster way of finishing.

Thats why I feel bad for them. As in all other cases throwing money around to get something is pretty lame, and doesnt say much of the player. Again, this refers to those special few who like to buy everything at high prices then claim they are elite for it. I mostly refer to R/X items. Don't bother dragging AH items into this that's not what I mean.

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 09:07 AM

I would love to see you make a 90 empyrean from the START(that means the weapon out of the chest) in a few days...

Edit: We are comparing 95's because you can not have 99's without 95.

People not only have done these in 8 to 9 days, they've done them often. Why are you even arguing the point? Do you think the developers don't know how easy preezy these weapons are?

Facts: 16,000 empyreans.

EASY PREEZY. These are being soloed and duoed up to 90 for ZERO cost in days.

Now you want the ultimate weapons soloed and duoed to 99 in days.

Get off it.

Do some work and earn the weapon...or settle for a very easy to get, very excellent level 90 weapon.

People have done the 95's. It's not that hard. Stop the crying.

Nynja

02-06-2012, 09:10 AM

if you have 9 friends all 2boxing with 1 relic per char, its still going to take 9 months to finish everyones relic...your math is dumb.

Cream_Soda

02-06-2012, 09:16 AM

Correct, gil doesn't appear magically in your pocket. You are good <=> you have gil.

Idk, my friend made 110m in the past month selling 1 byne bills for 600k

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 09:19 AM

DSL point is this content either has no effect on you or you do have a 90+ character and are too scared to take ownership of your opinion.

You have funny posts.

First, I have both a relic and an empyrean, unlike you who has 1 empy (and no relic or mythic) and the OP who has 3 empys (and no relic or mythic). !!

So, of the 3 of us, my opinion, is far more valid.

Second, good luck with the name-calling when people don't agree with you. How's that working out for you?

Third....and here is the kicker.

SE isn't going to make the empys easier. This whole thread simply reinforces the impression the developers have of many empy owners.

They want great weapons with no cost and no work.

Players posted in BG, ALLA, FFXIAH, FFXIONLINE and sent emails to SE asking for great weapons for no cost with hard quests.

That's what they gave you.

They're not going to make ultimate weapons that can be soloed to 90 in 9 days, then upgraded to 99 for 30 million gil on day 10.

newmonkey

02-06-2012, 09:22 AM

Ok seen as what has been said regarding Bravura is it safe to assume Bravura should be ahead of most other empys then apart from Ukon and say maybe Massa ?

Sorry for posting this here but with the Bravura discussion here i didn't want to create a whole new thread.

Neisan_Quetz

02-06-2012, 09:23 AM

When could level 1 chars enter abyssea?

Ok seen as what has been said regarding Bravura is it safe to assume Bravura should be ahead of most other empys then apart from Ukon and say maybe Massa ?

Sorry for posting this here but with the Bravura discussion here i didn't want to create a whole new thread.

At the very least Brovura is still most likely in the Top 3 GAs for War atm, I wouldn't consider Maschu worth it outside without ODD. Aside from the 5 I listed I can't think of other situations where emps far surpass relics, and in some are blatantly worse, such as Rhongo vs Gungnir, Redemption vs Apocalypse and Farsha vs Guttler (for Bst, unless you make farsha solely for brewing).

Erics

02-06-2012, 09:35 AM

People not only have done these in 8 to 9 days, they've done them often. Why are you even arguing the point? Do you think the developers don't know how easy preezy these weapons are?

Facts: 16,000 empyreans.

EASY PREEZY. These are being soloed and duoed up to 90 for ZERO cost in days.

Now you want the ultimate weapons soloed and duoed to 99 in days.

Get off it.

Do some work and earn the weapon...or settle for a very easy to get, very excellent level 90 weapon.

People have done the 95's. It's not that hard. Stop the crying.

Define your meaning of days for solo and duo. Because I can tell you right now, I had 4 people and it still took two days JUST for 75 horns. So get off your false facts about what you can accomplish in days.

Which brings up another point, if you are suggesting "zero" cost as well, I also bought a "few"(My few means about 7) pop sets.. Yet it still took 2 days. With your "zero" cost method, I HIGHLY doubt it is being done in a few days solo and duo, because there is ALWAYS comp. at the camp sights.

Edit: Oh! Forgot to mention, we all held a pop set and used one brew for every 4 pops. A solo/duo would take a little more time(about 30 seconds, but it adds up eventually) longer to continue buying brews for their 1 to 2 pops. The solo/duo MIGHT even need to cruor farm to buy more brews.

Tamoa

02-06-2012, 09:39 AM

You have funny posts.

First, I have both a relic and an empyrean, unlike you who has 1 empy (and no relic or mythic) and the OP who has 3 empys (and no relic or mythic). !!

So, of the 3 of us, my opinion, is far more valid.

Second, good luck with the name-calling when people don't agree with you. How's that working out for you?

Third....and here is the kicker.

SE isn't going to make the empys easier. This whole thread simply reinforces the impression the developers have of many empy owners.

They want great weapons with no cost and no work.

Players posted in BG, ALLA, FFXIAH, FFXIONLINE and sent emails to SE asking for great weapons for no cost with hard quests.

That's what they gave you.

You're not going to get ultimate weapons that can be soloed to 90 in 9 days, then upgraded to 99 for 30 million gil on day 10.

Bolded part no. 1: I guess you really are one of those butthurt relic owners that I mentioned in an earlier post. And having a relic means you're always right in any discussion that has anything whatsoever to do with relics, right?

Bolded part no. 2: I guess you've been told this by SE employees?

You're not going to get ultimate weapons that can be soloed to 90 in 9 days, then upgraded to 99 for 30 million gil on day 10.

You can't solo an empyrean weapon to 90 in 9 days.

Erics

02-06-2012, 09:40 AM

Already beat ya to it, Tamoa :P! Just in my own words! :P!

Tamoa

02-06-2012, 09:47 AM

Already beat ya to it, Tamoa :P! Just in my own words! :P!

I saw lol - you posted as I was typing :P

But yeah, I want too see someone solo 50 Chloris buds, 50 Ulhuadshi fangs and 75 Dragua scales in 9 days. Or 50 Glavoid shells, 50 Izpapalotl scales and 75 Orthus claws. And so on and so forth. In NINE days. Yeah, not happening. Maybe if you don't sleep, don't have anything else that requires your attention in rl, have millions of cruor for brewing and lots of gil for pop items.

Nynja

02-06-2012, 09:48 AM

1 sissyphus per 15 min (and thats being nice presuming it pops every 10 min after death and you're claiming them all, at approx 80% drop rate (no its not 100%, but it was severly adjusted from the previous 2%). Going to need roughly 50 apad pops (50% drop rate on double horn), so you're looking at roughly 60 sissy kills. We'll give the benefit of the doubt that you can farm up a snowgod core between sissy pops with the same 80% drop rate, so I wont factor in time on that. HQ Marid hide is negligible since you will probably cleave the pops down, but that will take time. I'll give it a rough hour to get all the marid hides, and thats once again being nice. Estimated time atm: (60x15 min) + 60 min = 960 min

Dhorme Khim will take about 5 minutes per between 1 min ??? repop, and can fluctuate between quick and long fights if the red!! is being a doucher. Thats being nice once again, because hey, I'm a nice guy. 50x5 = 250 min

Apad will take about 10 minutes per kill, so 500 minutes. If you say you can kill it quicker, I dont care. I've been nice this entire time, so suck it.

960+250+500 minutes = 1710 minutes = 28.5 hours, presuming you're catching every pop using average drop rates.

you lose, your math fails, like your turtle. gtfo lv1 scrub.

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 09:49 AM

Bolded part no. 1: I guess you really are one of those butthurt relic owners that I mentioned in an earlier post. And having a relic means you're always right in any discussion that has anything whatsoever to do with relics, right?

Bolded part no. 2: I guess you've been told this by SE employees?

You can't solo an empyrean weapon to 90 in 9 days.

People were soloing most parts up to 90 when the level cap was 95. If you want to imagine this is not true even more so now, then ok. Posts of people doing this is all over to find.

My guess is you aren't aware that people can brew these mobs. A brew lets you kill all the mobs that are needed to get to 90, soloooooooo, although most can be soloed without brews anyway. EASY PREEZY

Most pops sets can be obtained off the auction house, but of course, by soloing mobs with warrriors, blu mages etc. AOE spam is quite common.

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 09:52 AM

960+250+500 minutes = 1710 minutes = 28.5 hours, presuming you're catching every pop using average drop rates.

28.5 hours...your math. 9 days EASY PREEZY. Time left for naps, meals, a swim in the pool, and a movie.

Erics

02-06-2012, 09:56 AM

28.5 hours...your math. 9 days EASY PREEZY. Time left for naps, meals, a swim in the pool, and a movie.

Didn't he mention he was being generous though? Also, that math was just for a trial from 85 to 90. Not counting The previous two trails that need 50 items each, and not counting the tedious NM camping up to even being able to turn those items in.

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 09:56 AM

I saw lol - you posted as I was typing :P

But yeah, I want too see someone solo 50 Chloris buds, 50 Ulhuadshi fangs and 75 Dragua scales in 9 days. Or 50 Glavoid shells, 50 Izpapalotl scales and 75 Orthus claws. And so on and so forth. In NINE days. Yeah, not happening. Maybe if you don't sleep, don't have anything else that requires your attention in rl, have millions of cruor for brewing and lots of gil for pop items.

People do these all the time. You are hoping SE doesn't know this? They already do.

Millions of cruor. Cruor is not the problem. Get 200,000 (one party), buy 1 brew, get locked, release to wildfire 1-shot the mob, re-lock. Rinse, repeat.

EASY PREEZY.

Erics

02-06-2012, 09:57 AM

People do these all the time. You are hoping SE doesn't know this? They already do.

Millions of cruor. Cruor is not the problem. Get 200,000 (one party), buy 1 brew, get locked, release to wildfire 1-shot the mob, re-lock. Rinse, repeat.

EASY PREEZY.

So the person soloing an empyrean already has to have an empyrean or the woe version? Now you are just cheating!

Nynja

02-06-2012, 09:59 AM

28.5 hours...your math. 9 days EASY PREEZY. Time left for naps, meals, a swim in the pool, and a movie.

ITT: the 75 item trials = entire empyrean weapon.

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 10:02 AM

Didn't he mention he was being generous though? Also, that math was just for a trial from 85 to 90. Not counting The previous two trails that need 50 items each, and not counting the tedious NM camping up to even being able to turn those items in.

Your point is? 3 days 85 to 90?

Your thought is that the weapon up to 85 takes 6 days? Really. Is that Briareus whose pops are on the AH. Is that Sobek whose pops fall like candy from gold chests and is soloed by bsts, duoed easily by nin and whm?

Oh, maybe it's the level 32 NM that you sleep at while others kil it for you? Is that where the 6 days are?

Clearly this is far worse than relics or mythics. Is that your point?

Neisan_Quetz

02-06-2012, 10:05 AM

At first you were like

EASY PREEZY. These are being soloed and duoed up to 90 for ZERO cost in days.

And then you were like

People do these all the time. You are hoping SE doesn't know this? They already do.

Millions of cruor. Cruor is not the problem. Get 200,000 (one party), buy 1 brew, get locked, release to wildfire 1-shot the mob, re-lock. Rinse, repeat.

EASY PREEZY.

Your point is? 3 days 85 to 90?

Your thought is that the weapon up to 85 takes 6 days? Really. Is that Briareus whose pops are on the AH. Is that Sobek whose pops fall like candy from gold chests and is soloed by bsts, duoed easily by nin and whm?

Oh, maybe it's the level 32 NM that you sleep at while others kil it for you? Is that where the 6 days are?

So which one is it?

Erics

02-06-2012, 10:05 AM

Your point is? 3 days 85 to 90?

Your thought is that the weapon up to 85 takes 6 days? Really. Is that Briareus whose pops are on the AH. Is that Sobek whose pops fall like candy from gold chests and is soloed by bsts, duoed easily by nin and whm?

Oh, maybe it's the level 32 NM that you sleep at while others kil it for you? Is that where the 6 days are?

So it's no longer solo then huh? Nice move, bro!

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 10:07 AM

So the person soloing an empyrean already has to have an empyrean or the woe version? Now you are just cheating!

Wow...wasn't aware that people have never heard of Bedlam.

Erics

02-06-2012, 10:11 AM

Wow...wasn't aware that people have never heard of Bedlam.

Wasn't aware people would even make that weapon to begin with if making an empyrean is SOOO "EASY PREEZY" like you claim.

Edit:

Clearly this is far worse than relics or mythics. Is that your point?
Nice ninja edit. Where can you ever find in my post that I said the NM trials were worse than relics and mythics? I did mention how the HMP are more expensive than relics in a FAR earlier post though.

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 10:15 AM

Wasn't aware people would even make that weapon to begin with if making an empyrean is SOOO "EASY PREEZY" like you claim.

Well there ya go..You learned something. Bedlam was actually easier to make and still overpowered for what it can be used for (brews). Glad to help you with that.

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 10:26 AM

This is really fun stuff, but let's summarize:

1) SE knows, the player base knows, the relic, mythic and empy owners know, that making an empy up to level 90 is ridiculously easy. They all know that its far-FAR easier to do than the other 2 weapons. If you want to pretend that it's not true, then it's like poking your head in the sand.

2) If you feel hurt or anger because I am posting this, then feel free to call me level 1, or fearful, or anonymous. But you only show your fear and anger when you do. You can't win an argument by insulting your opponent, but you can demonstrate your immaturity that way.

3) People have completed dozens of level 95. It's counter productive to say they can't be done..when they can see they are being done.

4) Given these points, it's worthless to keep yelling at me or yelling that SE needs to make the 95-99 quests easier. The most you can do is ask that SE make sure the content stays relevant.

Nynja

02-06-2012, 10:27 AM

wait, your solution is to have 3 accounts...1 bedlam cor, 1 nin and 1 whm to complete an emp to 90 in rapid fashion by spamming brews?

LLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLOOOOOOOLLLLLL

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 10:28 AM

wait, your solution is to have 3 accounts...1 bedlam cor, 1 nin and 1 whm to complete an emp to 90 in rapid fashion by spamming brews?

LLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLOOOOOOOLLLLLL

You have my sympathy.

Zinato

02-06-2012, 10:31 AM

The most you can do is ask that SE make sure the content stays relevant.

That's what most people posting here want. Even anti-empyrean players agree with that.

Kysaiana

02-06-2012, 10:33 AM

What is this I don't even...
Why is there a huge back and forth about how easy it is to get a lvl 90 empyrean? Relics are easy to get too. Mythics have always been obnoxiously tedious to obtain, and you pretty much have to spam salvage with 2 other people since the alexandrite supply has pretty much dried up on all servers to the best of my knowledge.

What is the point of this debate? To feel more validated? Just to be clear I think all 3 of the 99 trials are stupid. Making trials dependent on large groups of people it asinine this late in the games life. Once VW becomes outdated, and it will, the supply for these items will disappear and people will be in the same boat as Relics and Mythics, only with a much higher amount and not guaranteed anyone will get a single item.

I'd much rather have to do an absurd amount of WS kill shots than this crap. At least then I'd know it's possible to finish before the servers shut down for good. I'm not sure what would be a good trial for shields/instruments though.

Avelonia

02-06-2012, 10:37 AM

Killing EP mobs while spamming job abilities 2 hours a day for 3 months is SO HARD GUYZ!!

newmonkey

02-06-2012, 10:40 AM

Wasn't aware people would even make that weapon to begin with if making an empyrean is SOOO "EASY PREEZY" like you claim.

Edit:

Nice ninja edit. Where can you ever find in my post that I said the NM trials were worse than relics and mythics? I did mention how the HMP are more expensive than relics in a FAR earlier post though.

Can you please stop with the 95 empy stage is more expensive than relics crap because soon as you factor in the 99 stages relics are the most expenisve what are you trying to prove here ?

As for making a ukon 80-90 in 9 days i did it myself, using mules to hold pop sets it wasn't hard just annoying i then went on to do the same again in similar time frame for a friends ukon and anothers twastar.

Also why do people always use thraongi empys when trying to win a argument, how about massa or calad we all know how easy they are to make at least you can get help when making empys because people like +2 gear, all this needs to be factored in when discussing these weapons.

Fact is relic 99 and empy 99 are pretty damn balanced now with how much they cost and the time it takes with relics just edging ahead in the gil department.

newmonkey

02-06-2012, 10:42 AM

Killing EP mobs while spamming job abilities 2 hours a day for 3 months is SO HARD GUYZ!!

Had to comment on this have you made a empy at 99 ? Shit the nms were never hard but now they are like easy prey themselves lol.

Erics

02-06-2012, 10:51 AM

Can you please stop with the 95 empy stage is more expensive than relics crap because soon as you factor in the 99 stages relics are the most expenisve what are you trying to prove here ?

As for making a ukon 80-90 in 9 days i did it myself, using mules to hold pop sets it wasn't hard just annoying i then went on to do the same again in similar time frame for a friends ukon and anothers twastar.

Also why do people always use thraongi empys when trying to win a argument, how about massa or calad we all know how easy they are to make at least you can get help when making empys because people like +2 gear, all this needs to be factored in when discussing these weapons.

Fact is relic 99 and empy 99 are pretty damn balanced now with how much they cost and the time it takes with relics just edging ahead in the gil department.

But you can't factor in empys 99 stage? The rift I've been seeing are only going for 1.5mil. Guess what?! Empys are still more expensive!!

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 10:55 AM

Killing EP mobs while spamming job abilities 2 hours a day for 3 months is SO HARD GUYZ!!

I 100% agree with you. Triggering and killing a single mob is not hard. Whether or not you want to call doing it for 120 hours hard, difficult or tedious is another matter. Nothing much in the game is hard. But it does make a difference if it takes 20 hours or 120.

So, no, it's not something people can't do. It's the same with going to 400 Qilins. It's not hard. Ultimately, from singles, pouches or selling drops, you'll have the 1,500 plates. But its tedious at the least.

Nala

02-06-2012, 11:00 AM

So, of the 3 of us, my opinion, is far more valid.

Good god, i didnt even bother to look you up, i assume DSL isnt your real character, which i just confirmed considering DLS does not have any of the items you claim to own, and what if i were to say i'm working on a relic now? since any change to a relic in the near future would effect me if/when i obtain it or rather any one who has or is working on the the item's opinion is valid.

My point is your hiding behind a sock puppet, that isn't just name calling considering you made grandiose claims to have x and y relics and at least DSL does not.

Since when did i call you names? oh just now, but before nope, unless you were inferring that i called you a coward which i did not directly say.

Zinato

02-06-2012, 11:08 AM

But you can't factor in empys 99 stage? The rift I've been seeing are only going for 1.5mil. Guess what?! Empys are still more expensive!!

At your estimate that's 90m for final stage, right now each merrow is ~20m assuming they are available that's 100m. That aside currency is not an accurate way to compare trials the value of these items change day to day, server to server, player to player (bought a Riftcinder earlier today for 300k, if Almace is never finished I'll sell it back for more. If I assume I will find more for this price then for me 95 -> 99 will be under 20m. Not to mention some I've already bought for ~100k)

Erics

02-06-2012, 11:13 AM

At your estimate that's 90m for final stage, right now each merrow is ~20m assuming they are available that's 100m. That aside currency is not an accurate way to compare trials the value of these items change day to day, server to server, player to player (bought a Riftcinder earlier today for 300k, if Almace is never finished I'll sell it back for more. If I assume I will find more for this price then for me 95 -> 99 will be under 20m. Not to mention some I've already bought for ~100k)

Who's your supplier?! (sounds like an epic drug deal!)

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 11:14 AM

Good god, i didnt even bother to look you up, i assume DSL isnt your real character, which i just confirmed considering DLS does not have any of the items you claim to own, and what if i were to say i'm working on a relic now? since any change to a relic in the near future would effect me if/when i obtain it or rather any one who has or is working on the the item's opinion is valid.

My point is your hiding behind a sock puppet, that isn't just name calling considering you made grandiose claims to have x and y relics and at least DSL does not.

Since when did i call you names? oh just now, but before nope, unless you were inferring that i called you a coward which i did not directly say.

Your point? Einstein was a patent clerk, so he couldn't know physics? Mendel was a Friar so what could he know about genetics?

The words I write are correct depending not whether they are, in fact, correct, but who you think says them?

5+5= 10, but not if I say it? Only if I have a level 99 character?

Really? Do you judge people as being correct on what they look like or what age they are?

newmonkey

02-06-2012, 11:16 AM

But you can't factor in empys 99 stage? The rift I've been seeing are only going for 1.5mil. Guess what?! Empys are still more expensive!!

I don't know what world you're living in but you're going to pay around 20 mil at least per marrow but more than likey around 30 , so no empys are not more expensive lol.

Dross isn't anywere close to 1.5 mil on quetz i picked up some today for 500 k each aswell.

Zinato

02-06-2012, 11:21 AM

Who's your supplier?! (sounds like an epic drug deal!)

Lol, no way you're on my server. I know I'm getting a good deal why would I share the info -.-
A hint though I do troll bazaars and look for players I know sell cheaply.

DrStrangelove

02-06-2012, 11:23 AM

I don't know what world you're living in but you're going to pay around 20 mil at least per marrow, so no empys are not more expensive lol.

Dross isn't anywere close to 1.5 mil on quetz i picked up some today for 500 each aswell.

Many are up for 1 mill on Bismarck.

The problem is not price...both weapons are going to be expensive or tedious or both. The problem, like mythics is supply being far to small once ADL, Salvage and VW are allowed to lapse in interest.

wish12oz

02-06-2012, 11:30 AM

You have funny posts.

First, I have both a relic and an empyrean, unlike you who has 1 empy (and no relic or mythic) and the OP who has 3 empys (and no relic or mythic). !!

So, of the 3 of us, my opinion, is far more valid.

I pay for 5 accounts, I have 3 empyreans and 1 relic and about to be 5 ebisu's, which are sort of like relics, if we're comparing opinions and which persons should hold more weight, I've done more then you, I have more then you, and I pay SE 5x more then you, so it's definitely me, so gtfo.

ALSO: If you're gonna claim to be a big shot, maybe you should not hide on a level 1 mule hiding who you are, I doubt you have anything based on the things you've said, and it's not like you've proved anything to anyone. So take your level 1 self and leave my thread before you make yourself look more dumb.

Nala

02-06-2012, 11:34 AM

it has nothing to do with level, and everything to do with taking ownership of your opinion with your OWN character, DSL isnt that, DSL is some mule your using to maintain your anonymity at least in terms of the FFXI community, i also call BS on your claims to multiple relics your worse then MarkovChain aka P-chan, he at least isn't afraid to post his opinions as himself.

Zinato

02-06-2012, 11:45 AM

Who he is, what level he is has no relevance. Everyone gets an opinion and as long as its not aggressive, everyone else then gets to decide if they agree or disagree. Don't get this thread locked.

Shadowsong

02-06-2012, 01:14 PM

Why are people responding to a level 1 poster?
Real Character or GTFO
Sorry if this was brought up lol

ITT: Lieing about having Relics and Mythics is cool

Insaniac

02-06-2012, 03:35 PM

Tamoa

02-06-2012, 05:41 PM

People seem to be forgetting he's talking about SOLOING here. As in doing it alone, no help, no multi-boxing, noone other but your main character.

You can only hold one pop item at any given time. You can only hold one KI (or set of KIs) at any given time. Meaning you can't aoe kill mobs for pop items/KIs. So lets take Apademak. Kill the appropriate lesser nms and hope for pop items to drop. Or, buy a pop set from AH. Pop Dhorme Khimaira. Hope you can proc red and not die. Pop Apademak and brew it (lololol @ soloing Apademak without brew).

Oh hey, you used your KI for Apademak. Now you gotta do all that all over again, you can't brew lock because you need to make another pop set for Dhorme Khimaira and proc red on that so you will be able to pop Apademak again. Oh and you need another brew for the next Apademak. You'll need to pop a minimum of 38 Apademaks to finish horns. That's 7.600.000 cruor. Or, twenty million gil worth of cruor, if you want. If you don't have 7.6mil cruor, then you need to stop and farm cruor somehow.

Same thing applies for the level 80 and 85 item nms. You can only hold one pop set at a time. And what if you can't proc red? Damn, you have to go back and get another pop set.

So yeah, good luck doing that in 9 days. Solo.

Cream_Soda

02-06-2012, 08:45 PM

@^
have my childrenz (and if you a man just catch the seed and let it die on its own)

Also, don't forget, if you're doing it solo, you can't team up w/ anyone during the pre-80 trials, so you have to camp against, not with anyone else camping those same NMs

newmonkey

02-06-2012, 11:46 PM

Zikon

02-07-2012, 12:19 AM

All the bitching about which costs the most between relics and empyreans is pretty silly they are the most balanced they have ever been since the 99 trials were introduced and they are pretty close in total gil spent so its pretty pointless to argue over which is worth more or not.

That been said i think se should man up and just admit they kinda mugged it with the hmp supply and reassure the playerbabse that they are going to increase the drop rate in the next update there is no need to change the amount needed just increase the drop rate or places to get them by a good margin.

Just like with mythics I'd rather see a decrease in amount required than increase in drop rate.

SE needs to adjust to 200-300 required
Same with mythics Alex needs to be adjusted to 8000-10000 instead of 30000

here's why.... Unless SE makes every single NEW voidwatch NM drop heavy metal plates then the content will eventually become ungrindable and Empys in general will not be upgraded as much or often as Relics.

MarkovChain

02-07-2012, 01:52 AM

And they won't do that because they never allowed mythics to be solo farmable for instance, even now, unlike relics.

Cybernetic_Empire

02-07-2012, 02:22 AM

How has no one brought up to this fool that level 90 emps aren't free based on their opportunity cost? Every brew is worth 500k every emp item from a lot of NMs is worth 300-500k. A lot of pop sets are 50-100k. Depending on how you do your specific emp your opportunity cost could be anywhere from 20-80mil.

It's all about opportunity cost and as long as however many HMPs you need for 95 ends up being worth around 100mil then trials are balanced. Dropping the requirements to 150-300 would skyrocket the prices and balance the cost with relics even if you only needed an amount of HMPs that you could realistically farm yourself in 80 or so hours of gameplay. The ONLY difference is that instead of cruor burning or dynamis farming or crafting to make the gil for your plates you could do VW for roughly the same amount of time. It would still cost you the same amount of gil but you could actually be doing the relevant event. If that doesn't make sense then idk what does.

This post points out one of the biggest problems with the Empyrean 95 trials (and potentially the 99 trials). Up to level 90 I was able to log in, immediately hop into Abyssea, and start making progress on my weapon in some way. I didn't need to spend any gil along the way which let me focus on the relevant content of the time (Abyssea). Now, if I ever want to get my weapon to 95, I have to log in, wait for a VW shout for an NM that drops HMPs, wait for that group to actually fill up, wait for randoms to actually gather at the spawn, and hope to god that my chest isn't flooded with useless crafting materials (despite capped lights, and cells used each time).

With Abyssea I was guaranteed to walk away with something if I did the leg work. With Voidwatch it's a crap shoot on whether I'll get anything. The content that is actually relevant to my trial is just so horribly broken that I have to buy HMPs to finish in a reasonable amount of time. That leaves me doing old, unrelated content (Dynamis) in an effort to raise enough gil. To me it's utterly ridiculous that I can't expect to make reasonable progress on a trial by participating in the content tied to it.

Finuve

02-07-2012, 02:26 AM

I don't understand why relic/mythic quests sucking so bad means empy has to suck

thats some very antiquated thinking

how about, heavy metal plates gets fixed to a decent number, and alexandrite rains from the sky in new nyzul, and relics take 1 umbral marrow to get to 99

Monchat

02-07-2012, 02:35 AM

This post points out one of the biggest problems with the Empyrean 95 trials (and potentially the 99 trials). Up to level 90 I was able to log in, immediately hop into Abyssea, and start making progress on my weapon in some way. I didn't need to spend any gil along the way which let me focus on the relevant content of the time (Abyssea). Now, if I ever want to get my weapon to 95, I have to log in, wait for a VW shout for an NM that drops HMPs, wait for that group to actually fill up, wait for randoms to actually gather at the spawn, and hope to god that my chest isn't flooded with useless crafting materials (despite capped lights, and cells used each time).

With Abyssea I was guaranteed to walk away with something if I did the leg work. With Voidwatch it's a crap shoot on whether I'll get anything. The content that is actually relevant to my trial is just so horribly broken that I have to buy HMPs to finish in a reasonable amount of time. That leaves me doing old, unrelated content (Dynamis) in an effort to raise enough gil. To me it's utterly ridiculous that I can't expect to make reasonable progress on a trial by participating in the content tied to it.

thats my fear too and why I rushed and spammed the hell out of dynamis after the 95 cap. You still see HMP right now. People said wait a few months and HMP price will drop. It didnt. It satayed at 100-150k. But in a few months when they (hopefully) release other content, vw will become irreleveant and HMP will dry out. I might finish my 95 and 99 daurdabla trials before working on spharai99 upgrades, actually, since the empyrean trials are quite doable now, provideded you have gils

Geabrielle

02-07-2012, 03:39 AM

God I've never had so much blank space from ignore lists....

Alright. "Having the gil" idiocy aside; What can be done to fix the Empy trials have been lost to the troll-bridges. Let's try a recap, shall we?

An adjustment to the amount of plates dropped: Either allow pouches to drop at least 15 and upwards of 25, or reduce the requirement to something manageable like 200 to 300. A combination of both would be helpful. If the Devs feel the need to keep the Balance Hammer in effect the cinder/dross can be adjusted back to 125, as long as the dross/cinder follows the same pouch possibility as the plates. Because let's face it, the supply won't last much longer with people getting what they want and moving on.

Camiie

02-07-2012, 04:03 AM

I don't understand why relic/mythic quests sucking so bad means empy has to suck

thats some very antiquated thinking

If anything, rather than try to make Empyrean more like Relic and Mythic, it should be the other way around. To me, Empyrean up till 90 was the system they got right. It's actually modern MMO content. It does take time and teamwork, and don't anyone say it doesn't, but it's not some life stealing/life altering experience. It's fair and rewarding.

Relic acquisition is an antiquated grindfest reminiscent of the worst of Evercrack. Mythics were billed as easier to obtain than Relics, but with the Alexandrite requirement became a joke no one could laugh at. The only thing Empys lack is rarity and prestige, but sadly that seems to be what's most important to SE and many fellow players. To many of us though that rarity and prestige is meaningless, but we're apparently not the ones who matter.

Zinato

02-07-2012, 09:00 AM

Rarity and prestige is not the problem everyone has, the problem they have is empyrean has become the everyone weapon. And a large portion of jobs have gained the stima of Empyrean or gimp. Period. SAM RNG WAR MNK DRK PLD NIN are all examples. What empyrean did was split the bar between players too far apart, In alot of cases empyrean double or triples the next best thing. (excluding relic/mythic) Whats more the Merit weaponskills ment to combat the that issue got a large nerf and why? Because all the empyrean players said it ruined the work they did on their empyrean. Is this sounding familiar. (relic) Now the game is split empyrean owners find things too easy and non empyrean are having trouble. To top it off players (even on things that don't require it) have begun using empyrean as a sort feature. Surely, if you value a job you would go get empyrean even if it means making a 3rd or 4th super weapon, right?

These weapons are not soloable by some or all jobs at some stage or another everyone WILL need help, unlike relic which given time is 100% soloable. Empyrean can't become the bar unless there is some balance (that's right) Either other non empyrean need to be only slightly weaker (damaging the value of empyrean), or empyrean can maintain its power over other weapons at the cost of rarity. Fact stands, In a world players expect someone who likes tanking with say PLD, MNK and NIN (this may even be their only 3 jobs) to have 4 different empyrean to count all of their jobs as usable something needs to be done. Fix merit weaponskills (for everyone not just SAM) and sure players can have the higher damaging empyrean at an easier rate. (Don't bother mentioning WoE versions those are just as much of a pain to get since WoE is a ghost town)

newmonkey

02-07-2012, 09:18 AM

Just to point out you can't solo the fragment and attestation for relics and no one is soloing the 99 stage.

Come on se thorw the people a bone here and announce some refinements for heavy metal plates.

Zinato

02-07-2012, 09:31 AM

Are you sure you can't solo those? (disappointing news to me I thought id be able to at 99) That's for the first two, and I only ment to the 85 trial since that's when the destructive power comes, 90 at most since that's the common "end point". As long as you get the main idea.

macross

02-07-2012, 09:37 AM

If empys are so easy peasy why care if you don't have the means to upgrade em further. They are perfectly fine how they are at 90 anyways. Heck I was probably one of the first people to make a 95 empy, and I don't even give a shit about upgrading it to 99 atm. All they add is a few base dmg, I'm not gonna pay another 60m for that. I did mine to 95, hoping 99 would be some uber upgrades, but empy gets nothing but base dmg increase, fuck that. I would not even do it to 95 if I had the chance to go back in time and undo it. The only weapon really worth making 99 is the harp, since that actualy gives you a big bonus of one more song.

Look at my woe weapons, all sitting at 90, I don't care about buying up devious dice to upgrade em further. Spend 10m gils to add 3 more base dmg okay!

If they lower HMP amount required, everyone will start to sell them for 1-2m each. Same thing happened to riftdross/cinder. They were like 100k before, now they are 1m soon as they announced the reduced numbers.

Mythics are not impossible, you will just have to slowly farm it yourself, and hope the nyzul patch will bring alot more alex.

I find it bs they didn't lower the riftdross/cinder requirements. That stuff is pretty rare too, and it will be impossible to get once people stop farming the 2 mobs. Hopefully they will add drops to new tiers.

Relic trial is by far the easiest with the least amount of work. No one is gonna sell you umbrals, so saying it will cost as much as empy is laughable. 5 umbrals you will do with your linkshell, and they will be free. Maybe if you try and pay 18 people to help you kill ADL it will cost you gil.

I know this much though, I will finish 99 relic before I finish 99 empy.

newmonkey

02-07-2012, 10:26 AM

You're wrong certain ls on Asura is selling umbrals at 30 mil each pretty sure others will merc them aswell once they get a few of there own relics done.

Erics

02-07-2012, 10:38 AM

As long as SE makes adjustments to the drop rate of HMP in some way, I won't care to collect 1,500 HMP. Doing an LS event of voidwatch for 8 to 9 hours and only walking away with 1 HMP, if that, is redundant.

Vold

02-07-2012, 10:42 AM

Are you sure you can't solo those? (disappointing news to me I thought id be able to at 99) TReally REALLY depends on a lot of factors. Let's just say the average Joe/Jane will not walk into Dynamis and solo attest/animated stuff. Ever. If you are above average in gear and skill then don't be afraid to try to solo something. You do get to enter Dynamis once each day now and basically for free, after all. At bare minimum I can confirm that BST walks all over everything. With Quie though it might need help. I'm not sure how much of a factor haste was for my BST when I killed it. Bene is a bitch. Also THF will not solo and must duo with a mage at the very least.

Erics

02-08-2012, 01:25 AM

With the update in 7 days, I pray, an announcement of HMP adjustments comes soon... Come on SE wtf, Let us know you increased the drop rate or they are more common in the new VW mobs. GIVE US SOMETHING! :c!

DrStrangelove

02-08-2012, 02:13 PM

So take your level 1 self and leave my thread before you make yourself look more dumb.

I'm only here because you want me here. And be careful wearing the blinders you have. Your posts don't help the impression you give off one bit.

Zinato

02-08-2012, 02:24 PM

DrStrangelove

02-08-2012, 02:27 PM

It's sad that the strongest arguments to change how empyreans are done are these:

1) you are level 1
2) you are anonymous
3) we don't believe you
4) get out of "OUR" thread
5) LOL

It seems if those are the best arguments you have for SE, they won't find much useful to read here.

Wait, I forgot one

6) wahhhhhh

Reminders for those who have forgotten:

1) there have been 16,000 empys made in 1 year, versus 4,000 relics in 8 years (with twice the number of people.) Ignore away if you will, but SE has the same numbers.

2) Empys are free up to level 90; Relics and myhics cost between 120 and 300 million just to get to level 75

3) The amount of cost for empys and relics ONLY becomes close if you take the empy to level 99. It is a CHOICE the empy owner has to make.

4) Empys at level 90 are excellent weapons; relics at level 75 are far far weaker

5) Many people have done the level 95 empys already. It's a slap in the face to make it reduce the 1,500 plates at this point

For those of you that can't respond to cogent arguments....here is what you can say:

1) you are level 1
2) you are anonymous
3) we don't believe you
4) get out of "OUR" thread
5) LOL
6) wahhhhhh

PS I think it's a pretty lame retort, but if you think that will win the day, go for it.

DrStrangelove

02-08-2012, 02:28 PM

At this point the update is too near to make a change now, (or at least i'm sure that's the excuse we will get) we will see soon enough what the final decision is. Arguing among ourselves won't do any good.

I'm hoping to get a consensus that ADL, Salvage and VW content needs to be keep relevant by adding new drops etc. But I agree that we'll know more in a few days.

Me? I can't wait.

Erics

02-08-2012, 03:15 PM

Most of us don't care if they don't reduce the 1,500 needed. We just want an adjustment to the drop rate in some way. Like I have mentioned before, doing VW 8-9 hours a day per run and only seeing 1, or if any, HMP is complete redundancy.

Monchat

02-08-2012, 03:18 PM

you can replace "HMP" by any item from VW and its why vw is a failed content.

MarkovChain

02-08-2012, 05:24 PM

It's sad that the strongest arguments to change how empyreans are done are these:

1) you are level 1
2) you are anonymous
3) we don't believe you
4) get out of "OUR" thread
5) LOL
.

That's because people from a certain site like to start arguments every time someone doesn't agree with them. The real excuse though is that they are not good enaugh to get the plates. QQ etc.

Tamoa

02-08-2012, 05:25 PM

So, Mr level 1 mule, players can't solo their relic weapon these days, should they want one? They have to buy the currency needed? Only asking since you keep coming up with the "relics cost XXX amount of gil to get to level 75" argument.

Not disagreeing that mythics are horribly expensive and that an update to alexandrite supply should have been added a long time ago btw.

But yes, this:

Most of us don't care if they don't reduce the 1,500 needed. We just want an adjustment to the drop rate in some way. Like I have mentioned before, doing VW 8-9 hours a day per run and only seeing 1, or if any, HMP is complete redundancy.

Oh and this:

That's because people from a certain site like to start arguments every time someone doesn't agree with them. The real excuse though is that they are not good enaugh to get the plates. QQ etc.

has to be the dumbest thing I've read here in a while. So, spamming dynamis to make gil to buy plates makes you good? Lol, just lol. Pathetic.

Atomic_Skull

02-08-2012, 05:42 PM

You're all still in denial that SE caters to JPs first and everyone else second. No mater what you want to believe the JP player base is larger than the NA and EU players combined and when given a choice of pleasing them or pleasing us they will choose the JPs every time because when having to make a decision to angerone market segment or another it makes business sense to avoid angering the larger group.

Tamoa

02-08-2012, 05:47 PM

Kimble

02-08-2012, 06:56 PM

Nothing, as always, Atomic is just running their mouth.

And, JPs arent happen with the trials either.

hiko

02-08-2012, 09:47 PM

Zikon

02-08-2012, 10:26 PM

Anyone here posting about relics gtfo....

Someone make a new thread and keep it relevant to Empyreans.... Anyone that wantst to QQ about relics and their weapons go make a thread and name it something like I'm still QQing over Relics even though SE already gave me what I want.

Also someone make a thread on Mythic... If empy gets 90-95 trial reduced / adjusted mythics should to so someone jump on the bandwagon and start)

This thread is for Empys.... Plain and simple All Relic QQ'ers GO away.

The player base in general JP/NA/EU wants the 90-95 trial adjusted. HMP need to be lowered... and drop rate / content also should be looked at.

Avelonia

02-08-2012, 10:57 PM

Reminders for those who have forgotten:

1) there have been 16,000 empys made in 1 year, versus 4,000 relics in 8 years (with twice the number of people.) Ignore away if you will, but SE has the same numbers.

2) Empys are free up to level 90; Relics and myhics cost between 120 and 300 million just to get to level 75

3) The amount of cost for empys and relics ONLY becomes close if you take the empy to level 99. It is a CHOICE the empy owner has to make.

4) Empys at level 90 are excellent weapons; relics at level 75 are far far weaker

5) Many people have done the level 95 empys already. It's a slap in the face to make it reduce the 1,500 plates at this point
[

1. I believe those numbers you have are just after the neo-dynamis changes. I would suspect the numbers are much closer now that the change has had several months to sink in. Also, you have to consider there was a 9 month lull between 90 cap(heroes of abyssea) to 95 cap where no decent new content was released and we had nothing better to do than build empys.

2. Like others have said, Relics can be free too if you so choose them to be. Throwing gil at it is just faster. With the addition of +2 Relic materials I'd venture to say people farming their relic are actually making money in the process.

3.Why does everyone always point to money to justify difficulty? I think we should really be looking at if it is feasible in a reasonable amount of time to complete said weapon trial by actually doing the content and view gil as a shortcut/suppliment to the goal. Relics you can, but you are slowed down by the 2hr a day thing. It is currently NOT feasible to get your 1500 HMP solely through doing Voidwatch and not purchasing them. If you do Voidwatch for 2 hours a day for 4 months you'll be lucky to be halfway done the HMP stage as it is now.

4. Getting a relic from 75-90 isn't difficult at all so that is a horrible comparison.

5. Faces have been slapped before. How about all those relic holders who did the 3000 WS killshots? Faces are currently being punched in the name of BALANCE! all over the place now. It wouldn't set an unusual precedent.

Cybernetic_Empire

02-09-2012, 02:08 AM

Reminders for those who have forgotten:

1) there have been 16,000 empys made in 1 year, versus 4,000 relics in 8 years (with twice the number of people.) Ignore away if you will, but SE has the same numbers.

2) Empys are free up to level 90; Relics and myhics cost between 120 and 300 million just to get to level 75

3) The amount of cost for empys and relics ONLY becomes close if you take the empy to level 99. It is a CHOICE the empy owner has to make.

4) Empys at level 90 are excellent weapons; relics at level 75 are far far weaker

5) Many people have done the level 95 empys already. It's a slap in the face to make it reduce the 1,500 plates at this point

1) The number of relics is going to increase DRASTICALLY if it hasn't already since the last census because...

2) Relics have been free from the moment Neo Dynamis was introduced up to the trial to get them to 95.

3) See 2

4) The main issue with you is that you keep comparing the effort and gil required to get an Empyrean weapon today to the effort and gil required to get a Relic at 75 cap. Empys at 90 ARE excellent weapons, but so are Relics at 95. It may take some time to get them to 75 but let's not pretend that now, at this very moment, it's hard to progress from 75-95.

5) Give 95 Empyrean holders a refund on their HMPs and let them put them on the market where they're sorely needed or let them upgrade other Empys they may have made. The trial should have never been 1500 HMPs, or if it was, they should have rained from the sky in content that requires 18 people and a ton of time to set up.

Also, on a note unrelated to DrStrangelove's post but relevant to this thread. Why not make Empyrean level 99 Rift... items drop off of Shinryu at 1 per type guaranteed? It seems that would be the natural progression, but I suppose I can see them needing to provide incentive for us fools to slog through the uninteresting, poorly conceived, and poorly implemented Voidwatch system.

Edit: Looks like I was beaten to the punch but I'll keep the post because it obviously shows consensus.

MarkovChain

02-09-2012, 02:15 AM

has to be the dumbest thing I've read here in a while. So, spamming dynamis to make gil to buy plates makes you good? Lol, just lol. Pathetic.

FFXI 101. If you are 99 with a level 90 you are by definition gimp.

Camiie

02-09-2012, 02:44 AM

FFXI 101. If you are 99 with a level 90 you are by definition gimp.

I guess everyone is as gimp as you then.

Nynja

02-09-2012, 02:49 AM

FFXI 101. If you are 99 with a level 90 you are by definition gimp.

FFXI Pre-K: If you have to brew your draguas, not to save time, but because you suck, you are by definition a really huge gimp.

MarkovChain

02-09-2012, 03:09 AM

brew is cheating. Mwahaha.

newmonkey

02-09-2012, 03:17 AM

To the people trying to claim becasue relics are easier to get now they are going to be close to empyrean in numebrs made you're just been silly it still takes 3 months of farming to solo your 75 relic, how many empys to 90 do you think will have been made in that time.

Just wanted to point this out, se still need to introduce more heavy metal plates however i mean ive got 7 emypreans waiting to be taken to 95 and i honestly don't mind doing dynamis to fund this but it would be nice to be able to take my gil and buy all 1500 in a day, so se up the damn drop rate.

Nynja

02-09-2012, 03:26 AM

brew is cheating. Mwahaha.

No one said its cheating, but I'd expect someone who goes around claiming their shit doesnt stink SHOULD be able to kill dragua without a brew. I brewed mine after the first 2 kills, not because I needed to, but because it made more sense to spend those extra 500 minutes (10 min per fight @ ~50 fights) cleaving for pop items instead of doing the same task over and over and over.

Tamoa

02-09-2012, 03:52 AM

FFXI 101. If you are 99 with a level 90 you are by definition gimp.

I'm actually lost for words, and that doesn't happen often. I do however, have a massive bump on my forehead now due to repeated facedesking.

Runespider

02-09-2012, 04:05 AM

FFXI 101. If you are 99 with a level 90 you are by definition gimp.

I usually try to strive to push my jobs to be the best they can be, get the best gear etc. I did the relic trials before they changed them, they were obnoxious but weren't a total turn off. When a dev makes such silly trials as this I don't think you can really class anyone that doesn't do them as gimp, they could make a trial that made a relic have double damage by cutting your little finger off...i wouldn't do that either. Sometimes being gimp is the better option is the devs are being silly, doing them shows you to be somewhat stupid. My first thought when I see someone with a glowing relic won't be wow he is awesome or wow he earned that, it will be what a dope.

Insaniac

02-09-2012, 08:13 AM

FFXI 101. If you are 99 with a level 90 you are by definition gimp.I can't believe you take such personal pride in being able to kill decent challenge mobs. It doesn't mean you are good at anything. It just means you have at least 2 hours of spare time a day lol.

DrStrangelove

02-09-2012, 08:51 AM

1) relic were made to be "elitist"(rare) weapons, empy were made to be strong weapon anybody could get with some work + difficulty to get an item 8years ago is not revelant

I'm sorry, but using a word in quotes means you are quoiting someone. Who are you quoting? Did SE say these were elitist weapons? Ok, I didn't think so. I think that is your way of trying to justify 16,000 empys versus 4,000 relics. Relics weren't made 8 years ago. They've been made consistently for 8 years. Your determination that empys are meant to be made by anybody is not in dispute. What IS in dispute is that SE wants anybody to get a 99 empy.

2,3) can solo farm all currencies for your relic = you can get it free too!
anybody that want to upgrade empy in less than 5years HAVE TO BUY HMP
the issue with HMP is not price but supply being way to low for the amount of empy Yup. Given 2 months anyone can farm a 75 relic for free. Sorry that you forget that we are not discussing 75 weapons, but instead are talking about 99 weapons. You have to look at the whole weapon to 99, whether you are discussing cost, time, help, etc. You don;t get to pick and choose one thing.

But since you brought it up, yes you can farm the gil to buy plates, or yes you can farm the plates, selling the excess drops to buy more plates. It's possible to not have to put out one gil to the plates if you farm it all.

4) relic cost 0 gil to up from 75 to 90 Again, it's sad, but I have to report red herrings. We aren't discussing weapons from 75 to 90, or 90 to 95 or 95 to 99. We are discussing weapons from don't exist to 99. It's fun to pick and choose the part you want to discuss, but SE knows that the whole complete weapon is what is at stake.

5) many relic owner did relic before cap 75. It's a slap in the face to make dyna easily soloable everyday OOOOPs....another red herring alert. They did not lower the currency requirements on relics. They did make it easier to collect currency. If you want to suggest that plates and rifts need to drop more frequently, rather than lowering the requirement, then you and I are probably close to agreement. That is the same issue for mythics and umbrals, so I am prone to agree that drop rates should be eased.

macross

02-09-2012, 08:52 AM

DrStrangelove

02-09-2012, 08:57 AM

Tamoa

02-09-2012, 09:08 AM

HMP drop rate is fine, just spam qilins and buy the plates as they drop. Should always get 1-2 pouches dropping per kill.

Rubbish, drop rate is far from fine. It's totally random, and if you do zilart T3s the number of plates in a pouch is random too. Nothing like getting a pouch with 3 plates in it. And having to throw millions of gil on something like this to be able to finish within a reasonable amount of time, it's just terrible. If you're willing and able to do that, fine - but it's still terrible.

newmonkey

02-09-2012, 10:17 AM

HMP drop rate is fine, just spam qilins and buy the plates as they drop. Should always get 1-2 pouches dropping per kill.

Umbrals are fine, 2 hours a day for 5 days or less to finish. Wish I could get 60 riftdross in 10 hours.

Yeah because everyone is going to help relic holders do adl all the time, at least you can actually go join pugs to do your 99 stage.

Nynja

02-09-2012, 11:21 AM

Umbrals are fine, 2 hours a day for 5 days or less to finish. Wish I could get 60 riftdross in 10 hours.

I wish i could shout for people to come kill ADL with the promise that they will be rewarded for their time

Erics

02-09-2012, 12:09 PM

Camate, where are you with answers?! :( Will we see adjustments to heavy metal plates in some way or not?!..

Yeah, I know calling for a dev probably won't work, but now I'm getting desperate for any answer on the topic at this time, especially with the update close at hand...

Zinato

02-09-2012, 12:25 PM

You won't like the answer he brings. The likelihood of an adjustment to quantity is nearly 0. What should be the bigger focus for empyrean owners right now should be assuring HMP will be available from sources other then the current 6 VWNM. Or, that some method to ensure continued participation on those VWNM. Once players can get conformation that HMP will stay in circulation then, they can work on getting decreases. Bottom line is 1500 or 100 if none are available and runs are never formed players still wont get the trial finished. With so many empyrean waiting to be upgraded there needs to be a rather large supply before this issue truly goes away.

Ravenmore

02-09-2012, 12:41 PM

Yeah because everyone is going to help relic holders do adl all the time, at least you can actually go join pugs to do your 99 stage.

For now they can, soon they won't.

DrStrangelove

02-09-2012, 10:02 PM

Umbrals are fine, 2 hours a day for 5 days or less to finish. Wish I could get 60 riftdross in 10 hours.

I had some dope tell me I needed to work and save up money to buy a house. I told him that was silly since I could take the $5 I had in my pocket to win the lottery. No need to work when you can just win the lottery every day!

Bottom line: any strategy (whether its for plates, rift or umbrals) that is based on the best case, best luck, best help of others scenario is a useless strategy.

And, not to be a downer, but if I use your logic, I only need 60 VNM kills to get 60 riftdross. Perfect party, perfect triggers = 10 minute kills, perfect drops for 60 fights = 60 riftdross. Win!!

Finuve

02-09-2012, 10:10 PM

Zikon

02-09-2012, 10:33 PM

Ahhhh almost did something stupid and forget about such a helpful feature as the ignorelist. This thread just became about empyrean's again with a Sh*t ton of blank areas.

wish12oz

02-10-2012, 03:31 AM

I have a better suggestion. Why don't you discuss the topic?

Why don't you stay on the topic instead of trying to change it and bring up crap that has nothing to do with the thread in general, which is empyrean trials for levels 95 and 99.

And FYI, since I just checked, people in this thread, including the OP (who has no relic), post repeatedly in Relic threads.

I already responded to your tired drivel about this. To bad you didn't bother to read it.

You have funny posts.

First, I have both a relic and an empyrean, unlike you who has 1 empy (and no relic or mythic) and the OP who has 3 empys (and no relic or mythic). !!

So, of the 3 of us, my opinion, is far more valid.I pay for 5 accounts, I have 3 empyreans and 1 relic and about to be 5 ebisu's, which are sort of like relics, if we're comparing opinions and which persons should hold more weight, I've done more then you, I have more then you, and I pay SE 5x more then you, so it's definitely me, so gtfo.

ALSO: If you're gonna claim to be a big shot, maybe you should not hide on a level 1 mule hiding who you are, I doubt you have anything based on the things you've said, and it's not like you've proved anything to anyone. So take your level 1 self and leave my thread before you make yourself look more dumb.

Where's your proof of your relic?

macross

02-10-2012, 09:02 AM

I had some dope tell me I needed to work and save up money to buy a house. I told him that was silly since I could take the $5 I had in my pocket to win the lottery. No need to work when you can just win the lottery every day!

Bottom line: any strategy (whether its for plates, rift or umbrals) that is based on the best case, best luck, best help of others scenario is a useless strategy.

And, not to be a downer, but if I use your logic, I only need 60 VNM kills to get 60 riftdross. Perfect party, perfect triggers = 10 minute kills, perfect drops for 60 fights = 60 riftdross. Win!!

2 hours a day for 5 days isn't based on any luck, it's almost a sure thing with the umbral being 100% drop. In fact, doesn't even take anywhere close to 2 hours to farm a adl pop and kill him, and it can drop up to 2 when you do win! If you got mules to reset 2hours can kill more than one a day as well. Very easy trial. Same as PW, very very easy.

Ogre and flan if you have perfect triggers and perfect party you can kill it in 3 minutes. Even so, you aren't guaranteed a drop at all every time you win. I've killed 60+ ogre/flans, I sure as hell don't got anything close to 60 dross, i've gotten 3 from all my kills. If you think getting 1500 hmp is hard, the supply of dross/cinder is even shittier due to those 2 mobs being alot harder for the avg pickup, and the fact they drop tons of loot thus people are done with them and not killing em as much. And theres 8 mobs that drop hmps, not 6, and they are still farmed daily.

Ravenmore

02-10-2012, 10:37 AM

2 hours a day for 5 days isn't based on any luck, it's almost a sure thing with the umbral being 100% drop. In fact, doesn't even take anywhere close to 2 hours to farm a adl pop and kill him, and it can drop up to 2 when you do win! If you got mules to reset 2hours can kill more than one a day as well. Very easy trial. Same as PW, very very easy.

Ogre and flan if you have perfect triggers and perfect party you can kill it in 3 minutes. Even so, you aren't guaranteed a drop at all every time you win. I've killed 60+ ogre/flans, I sure as hell don't got anything close to 60 dross, i've gotten 3 from all my kills. If you think getting 1500 hmp is hard, the supply of dross/cinder is even shittier due to those 2 mobs being alot harder for the avg pickup, and the fact they drop tons of loot thus people are done with them and not killing em as much. And theres 8 mobs that drop hmps, not 6, and they are still farmed daily.

And 17 suckers giving up their time to get you to that point. Not just their dyna time but time they could be doing idk Legion, new Nyzul, Abyssea farming, exp, any thing else that drops more for less effort. If you got 17 fools to help you great but giving up 2 hours a couple of years ago for little gain was not that much when you could play 4 to 8 hours a day but we as a player base have gotten older now 2 hours is what most people have to play for the day or every couple of days.

There is nothing in Xaca of worth(outside of upgrades items) that couldn't be gotten faster in a 6 man group that you could offer people help you build a adl pop. DL items, a 6 man group can killl him and not have to lot/bid/<insert perverted act here> against 17 others so thats not that attractive, ADL trash drops lol will so poor sheep want it sure but to get 17 sheep for it gl.

newmonkey

02-10-2012, 11:03 AM

2 hours a day for 5 days isn't based on any luck, it's almost a sure thing with the umbral being 100% drop. In fact, doesn't even take anywhere close to 2 hours to farm a adl pop and kill him, and it can drop up to 2 when you do win! If you got mules to reset 2hours can kill more than one a day as well. Very easy trial. Same as PW, very very easy.

Ogre and flan if you have perfect triggers and perfect party you can kill it in 3 minutes. Even so, you aren't guaranteed a drop at all every time you win. I've killed 60+ ogre/flans, I sure as hell don't got anything close to 60 dross, i've gotten 3 from all my kills. If you think getting 1500 hmp is hard, the supply of dross/cinder is even shittier due to those 2 mobs being alot harder for the avg pickup, and the fact they drop tons of loot thus people are done with them and not killing em as much. And theres 8 mobs that drop hmps, not 6, and they are still farmed daily.

You really are making me laugh now the empy trial is by far the easiest and cheaper than relic trial just go wait in jeuno and buy the damh dross, gl finding 5 marrows to buy for anything less than 100 mil but still gl even buying them.

I'd say mythics got the easiest 99 trial due to the zeni increase then empys due to the fact you can buy it all a lot easier than marrows and you can spam it all day all at the same time buying it from other people there and getting a chance at good gear.

You must be from a big ls what farms adl, most relic holders arn't part of a big ls now so im sorry cut the bs because the relic trial is far from easy. Most people in this game are out for themselves i really can't see 17 other people going out to help a relic holder get 5 marrows when they can solo dynamis and get 2 mil gil.

Then factor in even in a small ls there will be multiple relics mine for instance one person alone has 7 do you really think the ls is going to keep spamming adl for this person ?

So cut the crap Marc, we all know who got the best deal from the 99 trials and it certainly wasn't relic holders.

Ravenmore

02-10-2012, 03:28 PM

Emps are still facing down the gun on this. For now VWNM is the "It" event only because what else is there to do, and the people that are not already doing it mostly like won't bother with it. The more new events they add the less its worth going back to VWNM. It still boils down to SE short sighted thinking. The gear from VWNM is really not that impressive for the amount of time sink it is. No one got a good deal in this mess, some just got better then getting hit by a Mac truck and worse then getting kicked in the nuts.

MarkovChain

02-10-2012, 03:32 PM

wish12oz

02-10-2012, 08:35 PM

The empy trial is clearly the easiest

All mythic trials after initially getting the weapon are clearly the easiest.

Finuve

02-11-2012, 12:05 AM

who gives a shit if empy is easiest? (HMPs are still harder than currency but lets not go there) stop comparing what empy's are to what relics are, relic trials were and still are retarded as all fuck, empy's should not have been subjected to the same retarded design, and until 95 they weren't

so 95 NEEDS FIXED

macross

02-11-2012, 12:42 AM

The empy trial is clearly the easiest, not saying that relic is hard, but it can't be soloed. Also no your voidwatch mobs are not harder than ADL. They are very easy that's why I found 100 riftcinders in bazars in 1 week at a reasonable price.

And my LS has 9 umbrals we've farmed, doing ADL once a week. NOT hard at all, since it always drops 100%! Try finding dross at reasonable prices. Even if I wanted to pay 1m each right now I can't buy 60 of them. Once the final numbers were released and it was known we'd use the same damn items everything was bought for use or resale. Killed another 7 flans, 4 ogres, I got 0 dross yet again. Unless they add drops to new tiers, it will just get increasingly more difficult to finish. Whereas you can go anytime and gank ADL 5x. or kill your 3 PW. Killing 60 ogre/flan won't guarantee you will finish, as I posted before, not everyone will trade, nor sell you the drops if they do drop. It should have been 10 or 15 at most, 60 is just stupid.

macross

02-11-2012, 12:51 AM

You really are making me laugh now the empy trial is by far the easiest and cheaper than relic trial just go wait in jeuno and buy the damh dross, gl finding 5 marrows to buy for anything less than 100 mil but still gl even buying them.

I'd say mythics got the easiest 99 trial due to the zeni increase then empys due to the fact you can buy it all a lot easier than marrows and you can spam it all day all at the same time buying it from other people there and getting a chance at good gear.

You must be from a big ls what farms adl, most relic holders arn't part of a big ls now so im sorry cut the bs because the relic trial is far from easy. Most people in this game are out for themselves i really can't see 17 other people going out to help a relic holder get 5 marrows when they can solo dynamis and get 2 mil gil.

Then factor in even in a small ls there will be multiple relics mine for instance one person alone has 7 do you really think the ls is going to keep spamming adl for this person ?

So cut the crap Marc, we all know who got the best deal from the 99 trials and it certainly wasn't relic holders.

You do realize SE themselves said the order of difficulty is Mythic->Relic->Empy right? And from what we've seen, they are correct. Think what you want, just because a few people bought up all the existing dross/cinder, doesn't mean others will be able to. The supply is drying up. Less and less do VW, especialy the flan or ogre.

And my LS sure plans to farm ADL to finish at least 1 relic for every person. If you're not in a LS then too bad shrug. I guess for you relic will be impossible. For me, and anyone else in a decent LS, we'll have no problem getting 5 umbrals. Being in a strong LS, I don't forsee myself getting 60 dross anytime soon. 99 relic will be done before 99 empy for sure.

Only people who will be finishing 99 empy are those who took a gamble and bought up the original stock. I didn't think SE would be stupid enough to use the same item for both trials so I'm pretty screwed since I didnt' buy any. That and my LS rather sell the dross to outsiders than sell to me shrug.

newmonkey

02-11-2012, 01:18 AM

Well i don't care what se said the true order of the final trial is Mythic > Empy > Relic in that order, i can't help it people from your own ls won't sell you dross but on quetz now ive seen today alone 10 for sale at 500k each.

You can spam the vwnms for it all day Marc go make a shout group it will cost you nothing you can only do relic once a day and then you have competion within your own ls if there is more than one relic which in todays game there more than likely will be. Then add on the fact it isn't even a 100% win he could spawn multiple clones or just go nuts and kill the ally. Funny how it's only the people who paid out for 95 empyreans who seem to think the last trial is harder for them than relics when its clearly not.

Relic would cost more to buy if you can even find a seller, anyway pointless argument is pointless relic trial sucks, empy trial is passable but i wouldn't care if they lowered the amount and finally mythic gets the best deal.

Ls friend has just finished empy 99 stage in one day pfftt hard my arse

MarkovChain

02-11-2012, 03:54 AM

And my LS has 9 umbrals we've farmed, doing ADL once a week. NOT hard at all, since it always drops 100%! Try finding dross at reasonable prices. Even if I wanted to pay 1m each right now I can't buy 60 of them. Once the final numbers were released and it was known we'd use the same damn items everything was bought for use or resale. Killed another 7 flans, 4 ogres, I got 0 dross yet again. Unless they add drops to new tiers, it will just get increasingly more difficult to finish. Whereas you can go anytime and gank ADL 5x. or kill your 3 PW. Killing 60 ogre/flan won't guarantee you will finish, as I posted before, not everyone will trade, nor sell you the drops if they do drop. It should have been 10 or 15 at most, 60 is just stupid.

It's a server thing because on quetz all cinder go for 800k+ while you see plenty of dross for 500k.
You said your server does 1 ADL per week, fine, but how much money will the group do if farming instead ? At 800k a pop my level 99 is costing me ~50M wich is 10 dynamis runs duo. I'm 100% certain a 10 ish group will farm much more than 50M in on week, so yeah it's still easier. I'm not saying SE should increase the amount of cinder, but the cock blocker is clearly HMP not cinder. For anyone that has farmed 1500 plates, 60 dross will be quick.

Nynja

02-11-2012, 04:00 AM

At 800k a pop my level 99 is costing me ~50M wich is 10 dynamis runs duo.

lol? What the fk happened to making 16m per run?

Camiie

02-11-2012, 04:24 AM

It's just so stupid of them to try and balance relic, mythic, and empyrean against each other. They're different processes from different eras of the game. It'd be like basing all expansion missions on the difficulty of Zilart, but making the difficulty adjustments at the end of each mission line. COP will be super hard, but Promathia will keel over and die if you look at him funny to make up for it. ToAU will be really easy until you face Alexander who will be guaranteed to strike you down with the combined powers of AV, PW, Shantotto, and Tunga.

Is this what passes for balance with the devs? Heck, Empyrean trials aren't even balanced against each other... I don't think we ever got an explanation for that.

MarkovChain

02-11-2012, 04:29 AM

lol? What the fk happened to making 16m per run?

Did I say 16M per run where ¿ I said "I made 16M today just from dynamis"

Manuelbravo

02-11-2012, 04:36 AM

what the hell are you talking about expensive then relic and such, empy's are sooo much easier and vw nms are a joke for plates besides people selling 100's from 700k-1mill a pice is way more expensive then a empy will ever be. If anything SE might lower the requirement and Arch DL....fun. He makes VW seem easy.

Tamoa

02-11-2012, 04:38 AM

Ls friend has just finished empy 99 stage in one day pfftt hard my arse

Why is it that so many people seem to either skim through posts, or lack reading comprehension? There is nothing hard about the empyrean trials if you have the gil to spend and the supply is sufficient.

The fact that you are forced to spend millions of gil on both trials to be able to finish within a reasonable amount of time, is utterly ridiculous in itself.

newmonkey

02-11-2012, 04:44 AM

Tamoa

02-11-2012, 04:57 AM

Well Marc was crying on saying its a hard trial because he couldn't find 60 dross and i posted the pic showing Vod got 60 dross in less than a hour from upper jeuno.

It's pretty obvious hes from a fucked up server were apparently there is no supply but on quetz oibviously there is, end of the 60 dross is nothing and its a good solid number.

Sure by all means make the plates drop more often as 1500 is pretty high.

That's the whole point. You're depending on supply to be able to finish, plus the fact that even if you personally spam the 2 vwnms that can drop riftdross/cinder, you might end up with nothing.

As soon as interest in voidwatch drops (i.e. when new events are introduced), chances are the supply of both plates and dross/cinder will dry up. And it doesn't matter how much gil you have, if there's no plates or dross/cinder to buy.

newmonkey

02-11-2012, 05:02 AM

Why would people stop spamming them ? Plates and dross sell for good money, however im pretty sure in the other chapters of vw left to come more plates and dross etc will drop.

Tamoa

02-11-2012, 05:08 AM

Why would people stop spamming them ? Plates and dross sell for good money, however im pretty sure in the other chapters of vw left to come more plates and dross etc will drop.

Yeah and I was pretty sure that Jeuno II chapter would drop heavy metal pouches, it seemed like a logical progression from Jeuno and Zilart paths. Or at the very least singles. But hey guess what, no pouches, and only 2 of them can drop single plates. So I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, I sure am not.

newmonkey

02-11-2012, 05:11 AM

Well if that happens then by all means give them hell on here or continue to do so now so it doesn't happen.

All that bothers me is the cheap shots between empyrean holders and relic holders each one aruging why the other is more difficult or expensive and it's a bit silly now the trials are the most balanced they have ever been.

Let's also not forget we know the stats for all weapons now and some relics are better than empyreans and some empyreans are better than some relics.

Nynja

02-11-2012, 05:28 AM

Did I say 16M per run where ¿ I said "I made 16M today just from dynamis"

Ok, and even if you did 2 runs in 1 day, you just upped your currency count from ~5m per run to ~8m per run, which still makes no sense at all.

Erics

02-11-2012, 05:39 AM

With the version update only four days away, I doubt SE has even looked at this thread, more less, even considered making sure the player base knows there will a constant rate of HMP and dross/cinder on the servers. More of us are just asking for this. I will buy HMP and dross/cinder if the price seems right, but on Asura, the prices are going up every day it seems. 130k for HMP and 1mil-1.5mil seem to be the norm on cinder. I have seen dross go for 800k, but still yet that's a little over the top. SE needs to realize the content that supplies HMP and dross/cinder needs an adjustment for these three items alone. I am willing to stay here and voice my opinion on the matter, but I am also going to patiently wait and see if SE fixes this in four days as well. If no go? Then I will be making sure a shit storm comes this way on the forums. I agree we all have seem to have gotten off topic at some points to argue, but now it is time to get on topic or else SE will just scoff at this and continue on their "Merry Bullshit Way" and not even care. Look, I'm sorry your relic trials suck for who has one. Like someone mentioned, prices can range across servers, and on Asura, it sucks. At least the ADL umbral's were reduced to 5 from 20. Yes, argue that it would've been complete bullshit if it wasn't, but can't you all see that's what us Empyrean holders are doing as well? All of us believe it's complete bullshit that HMP and dross/cinder drop rates are less likely to be seen than they should.