99 Empyrean Trials. [Archive] - Page 2

newmonkey

02-11-2012, 08:22 AM

Erics

02-11-2012, 08:38 AM

Well I hope you're correct. Because SE would not surprise me if they made very few new VW NMs drop plates or cinder/dross. Also, as far as I can tell, raising hell hasn't even got us a dev response.

newmonkey

02-11-2012, 08:39 AM

Agreed it would be nice to get some kind of responce from the devs it really wouldn't hurt them to confirm there will be more supply in the next update.

detlef

02-11-2012, 08:43 AM

Point i was making in anycase was there will be a demand for plates so im sure you're just been a tad paranoid thinking vw is going to dry up and let's not forget there is more chapters to come and ive already covered all this in previous posts keep raising hell and ensure se add plates in the future chapters i personally think its a given they will be by all means bump your gums and continue to shout on.
I don't think there was any question that there will be a demand for plates. The issue and worry for most people is whether there will be a consistent supply in the future. Since it doesn't look like there are any new chapters of VW this update, hopefully that'll give SE enough time to figure out a way to add them to the next update.

newmonkey

02-11-2012, 09:07 AM

I could be wrong but isn't the update next week a kind of mini update and we are due a major update in March ? I may be wrong here but i always thought it was March we got the next major one.

Ravenmore

02-11-2012, 11:38 AM

What exactly are you poiting out Eric, a shit load of people have 90 empyreans im pretty sure most would like to see them upgraded so these people will want to do vw to get plates, at the same time other people like gil and as vw can be done fast and very easy im sure some people will go along for the chance at some possible gil hell there is one guy on my server sets up nightly runs just to try to get plates to sell.

Point i was making in anycase was there will be a demand for plates so im sure you're just been a tad paranoid thinking vw is going to dry up and let's not forget there is more chapters to come and ive already covered all this in previous posts keep raising hell and ensure se add plates in the future chapters i personally think its a given they will be by all means bump your gums and continue to shout on.

Then why the hell are they not doing it now. Also why do you think we will get more VWNM or that it will even be worth it to spam. How long would people spam it? Its dying fast right now not much can stop the bleeding. The event is already seeing the masses walk away from it while still need the items. What a chance at what a couple mil for a hour of shouting, getting people to camp spaming it then a high enough chance for all that to be wasted. Why do it when I can go and be sure to make at least a mil in the same time frame solo. You put to much faith in SE.

macross

02-11-2012, 02:12 PM

PW and ADL you can get your ls and kill it at any time, since all you do is go kill it for the items. Doesn't matter how much you lose out helping your LS, it's a LS raid. If you aren't going to help out then why are you even in a LS? You can sure as hell kill more than 1 ADL per day anyways, and it can drop more than 1 umbral. There is no problem with supply since it's guaranteed to drop. We haven't lost to ADL since lvl 99, it's a mob designed for lvl 90's. Who cares if it splits just kill it. If you trying to lowman it with 6 then maybe its not 100%.

Being from an LS that can and does kill everything, I assure you, the order of difficulty is indeed mythic>Relic>Empy. Bard in my ls has finished 99 empy harp, but she will also have 99 relic and mythic soon after the patch as well. Only reason we havent farmed PW is it would be stupid too until the zeni change. She has cinder cause there's tons for sale as only 2-3 people have finished 95s, so cinders are 500k now. She also mass bought them when no one wanted them. Perhaps your server has no 95 empys thus there's supply. I know of at least 2 95s that use dross, prob quite a few more on my server, so they will buy them up for 1m, or some reseller will and try to gouge me on it. There just isn't a supply anymore. Heck my LSmates don't even all trade stones evne though we kill flan/ogres, meaning even less supply. After people get their bodies weapons, which drop like candy, they stop trading stones. Once the strong players stop going, then no one will be able to kill flan/ogre, since these 2 are a bit harder than the normal VW fodder.

People whined about VW low droprates, but when they put out like flan/ogre do, then people get finished and don't kill em no more. Should see how many athos and ogre bodies my LS has, so every time one drops that's one less person using stones anymore. Most my LS has run out of stones long ago, they will only trade when they want something. We've been spamming VW since it's release.

Ravenmore

02-11-2012, 03:16 PM

How long before your LS becomes bored with it. You pick up more sheep? Its simple there is not enough sheep to go around for relics.

macross

02-11-2012, 06:20 PM

I don't see us getting bored of it. We've been kililng ADL since it was released. Now there's an actual good reason to kill it instead of hoping for sagasinger to drop. Reason we don't got more umbrals is we only do Ls dyna 2x a week, and we do arch diabolos as well. If we just focus on 2x ADL a week can easily knock out a relic a week or so. We've got 10 people with at least 1 relic, so i'm sure we'll finish for those 10, then see what happens after that.

We also do ogre flan 4x each a week or more at least, yet i've gotten no progress on my 95 ukon. Having a mob that for sure will drop what you need and only need 5, is far far far easier than needing 60 of something that doesn't always drop. Done around 70 flan/ogres, would think I would be done with the trial no? Not even close. Now if ADL only had a 5% chance to drop umbral, then it would be harder than empy lol.

newmonkey

02-12-2012, 12:51 AM

It's going to come down to your sever/ls then Marc because the 99 relics trials are going to be harder for my group, afterall someone got 60 dross yesterday and i see a galka selling 60 dross right now in upper jeuno at 1 mil each mind o.o

Ravenmore

02-12-2012, 07:44 AM

Mahoro

02-12-2012, 08:53 AM

Or that you didn't even read his post and notice that his LS has 10 people with at least 1 relic, which is already nearly all of the people you would need to kill ADL. Also you are neglecting the fact that the LS members who enter Dyna to help on ADL likely want stuff from other events that his LS rotates in.

Cut the ad hominem sheep shit.

macross

02-12-2012, 11:48 AM

macross

02-12-2012, 12:04 PM

So you do have a bunch sheep. Only reason they would follow a leader into a event they get nothing out of.

Maybe you'd have bad experiences with LSs perhaps? First of all, I'm not even a officer, just a peon. My LS has been around since the NA launch. We do almost everything first, get almost all server first kills. ADL AV PW you name it. Even killed ogre and flan within 3days of their release. We work with the mentality of 'even if you don't get it today, we will keep farming it till everyone who wants it gets it". I can honestly say I've killed every HNM in the game, except for one of the arch diabolos, due to the 1/4 chance he will pop, and it being very rape.

I may be a sheep in the sense that the LS leader will plan the event and that's what we'll do. Of course he will get the first 5 umbrals, but that is only because he has the most DKP, plays the most. He may be an asshole and what not, but he is fair and not selfish. And we do get something out of it, the pride of being able to actually kill stuff, and get shit done. Being able to help your shell, making yourselves the best. Why even be in a shell if all you care about is yourself? I'm not the type of person to 'loot and scoot', nor is anyone in my shell.

newmonkey

02-12-2012, 09:58 PM

Buy them all for me before you transfer then.

Send a mule to pick them up and ill glady buy them for you right now.

Arcari

02-12-2012, 11:30 PM

Maybe you'd have bad experiences with LSs perhaps? First of all, I'm not even a officer, just a peon. My LS has been around since the NA launch. We do almost everything first, get almost all server first kills. ADL AV PW you name it. Even killed ogre and flan within 3days of their release. We work with the mentality of 'even if you don't get it today, we will keep farming it till everyone who wants it gets it". I can honestly say I've killed every HNM in the game, except for one of the arch diabolos, due to the 1/4 chance he will pop, and it being very rape.

I may be a sheep in the sense that the LS leader will plan the event and that's what we'll do. Of course he will get the first 5 umbrals, but that is only because he has the most DKP, plays the most. He may be an asshole and what not, but he is fair and not selfish. And we do get something out of it, the pride of being able to actually kill stuff, and get shit done. Being able to help your shell, making yourselves the best. Why even be in a shell if all you care about is yourself? I'm not the type of person to 'loot and scoot', nor is anyone in my shell.

If there's one thing I know about Lunarians, they stick to their guns and they're a damn good shell. Some of them are cool and some of them are jerks, but that's true of any shell their size.

I'd look into joining you guys seeing as I'm on very often, but I'm afraid I'd wind up burning out fast lol.

DrStrangelove

02-13-2012, 05:21 AM

this is a game, take your real life comparisons and gtfo
Sorry, the analogy was too complex.

Let's try something else then:

Food good, fire bad.

Nynja

02-13-2012, 05:31 AM

Food good, fire bad.

actually if you made it through grade 10 history, you'd know without fire, you'd still be drawing stick figures on your cave wall out of coal, or whatever was used back then, and your food wouldnt even be good.

DrStrangelove

02-13-2012, 05:33 AM

actually if you made it through grade 10 history, you'd know without fire, you'd still be drawing stick figures on your cave wall out of coal, or whatever was used back then, and your food wouldnt even be good.

Umm....okay, I see a 4-word, single-syllable sentence was too complex. Not surprised!!

And just to be clear, fire was discovered by various pre-human ancestors long before modern humans. The development of complex thought in modern humans occurred 700,000 years afterwards.

Cave drawings were made using coal (from their own cooking) or charcoal that was found on the ground from natural fires, so this had zero to do with the discovery of fire. In fact, development of cave drawing was 740,000 years after fire was discovered.

So cave drawings have nothing to do with fire, but complex thought that occurred in modern humans which did not exist until around 70,000 years ago.

If your point was that without fire (which had been discovered 700,000 years before modern humans existed), that we'd still be living in caves, then I'm dieing to hear the theory.

Now getting back to another complex thought:

Empys are not hard to get to 95, nor 99. What is intended is that they will not ALL get to 95 or 99. This is called planned scarcity. Had SE wanted all of them to be 95 or 99, then you would be able to do a quest (kill mobs, get xp). They use drops to reduce the abundance of completed weapons.

If you want to argue this, you have to convince SE that having 32,000 level 99 empys in 12 months is a good thing.

Kysaiana

02-13-2012, 07:21 AM

If you want to argue this, you have to convince SE that having 32,000 level 99 empys in 12 months is a good thing.

I'd love to see the numbers on relics 12 months after the dynamis revamps. Particularly the CoP zones.

You argue SE doesn't want ALL empyreans to be 95, but relics are basically handed their 95 trial. I'm personally okay with 60 riftdross/cinder as long as their are more fights that supply them in the future. Because Rex/Ig aren't going to be fought consistantly for very long and the supply for those items will eventually dry up otherwise. I'm more likely to get 60 dross/cinder than I am to get 1500 plates.

Yes, I can spend all my in-game time converting massive amounts of cruor into gil, adding too the inflation. But it's not a simple matter of taking my money bags down to the heavy metal plate store. The supply for HMP is dwindling. Voidwatch is losing popularity as more people either get the drops they want or simply give up on this crap. And beyond all that, why pay so much gil for such a minor upgrade? Anyone who does is buying a Rolex but getting a Casio.

DrStrangelove

02-13-2012, 07:39 AM

I'd love to see the numbers on relics 12 months after the dynamis revamps. Particularly the CoP zones.

You argue SE doesn't want ALL empyreans to be 95, but relics are basically handed their 95 trial. I'm personally okay with 60 riftdross/cinder as long as their are more fights that supply them in the future. Because Rex/Ig aren't going to be fought consistantly for very long and the supply for those items will eventually dry up otherwise. I'm more likely to get 60 dross/cinder than I am to get 1500 plates.

Yes, I can spend all my in-game time converting massive amounts of cruor into gil, adding too the inflation. But it's not a simple matter of taking my money bags down to the heavy metal plate store. The supply for HMP is dwindling. Voidwatch is losing popularity as more people either get the drops they want or simply give up on this crap. And beyond all that, why pay so much gil for such a minor upgrade? Anyone who does is buying a Rolex but getting a Casio.

I think we have points of agreement:

1) they need to make sure there is some reason to do content for HMP, ADL and PW besides just the completion of weapons. That alone will not create a supply.

2) Relics are 4,000 and will never be 32,000, no matter how easy the 95 or 99 content is. The huge hurdle is the start with 120 million gil. Empys are already 16,000 and the hurdle is at the back. That's where the two differ and it's why SE will restrict empys at the back end.

3) It's unfair to look at each upgrade by itself. Empys are great weapons that are easy to solo / duo / lowman if you will all the way to 90. At 90 they are free and basically the best weapons. Mythics and relics do start to become better depending on the weapon, at 95 or 99. If SE sets a high hurdle AFTER 90 it's because the road up to 90 was fast, free, clear and easy. It's on the whole that you have to compare them.

Kysaiana

02-13-2012, 09:51 AM

1) We do agree on this.

2) According to the Census it was 6,640 relics at the time of the Census compared to 3.985 the previous year. http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/10/4.html I'm not sure where you got the 32,000 empyrean number from. It was 27k ish at the time of the Census so that number is probably right or too low. I wouldn't be surprised if there was 10k+ relics at least by now. Still no where near 32k but give it time, relic popularity has gone up recently especially since 90 and 95 trials made many relics equal to if not better than their empyrean counterparts.

As for the gil hurdle on relics, you can solo farm a relic to 75 in a few months time, there's no gil requirement, and you only need help with the attestation/fragment parts and even those are soloable for some people. People only spend gil because it takes less time to make gil than farm the currency. Empyreans are easy to 90. I don't think anyone would argue against that. Relics are also easy. They only take longer because you're limited to 2hrs of dynamis a day while you can spend as much time in abyssea as you have stones for / get TE's. Both weapons are free if you want them to be and saying "I spent 120 mil on a relic, therefore empyreans should spend 150mil on one trial." doesn't add up to me. It makes no sense to have a huge road block in empyrean weapons two trials after you get the weapon skill/aftermath.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant.

3) I agree. On the whole, relics are easier to get to 95 than empyreans. They also cost less gil if you chose to go that route. So I guess relics are the easier weapons? The 99 trial remains to be seen. Which is the whole point of this thread. I highly doubt SE is going to ease up on any of the trial requirements than they already have no matter how much we gripe.

newmonkey

02-13-2012, 10:39 AM

Ok Most people stil buy curreny for relics i should know i sell plenty of it each night however that been said you do know that you can go spam dynamis and sell the currency to fund your plates right ?

So technially the 95 empy trial is free if you want to use that silly excuse, oh and by the way its 30 mil for the last ukon stage and its going to be at least 100 mil for the last relic stage, again what are you trying to prove here ?

MarkovChain

02-13-2012, 10:56 AM

Tadaaa 2x level 99 for us tomorrow and yeah it's the easiest trial of the 3 by far, though boooring. The relic one is going to fun at least. Hopefully the plates nerf makes PW trial easy too. Now for a 99 daurdabla.

Nynja

02-13-2012, 11:52 AM

are you going to post this alleged video or what?

macross

02-13-2012, 12:13 PM

we'll have 2x 99 tomorrow too, today's ADL dropped 2 marrows yay. 1x 99 empy harp, my ukon will still be 95 sadly for long time. Should have 3x mythic done in a few days if people spam their zeni too.

its 60m as dross sell for 1m here, and people won't budge. I guess peeps buy them in the hopes they will finish a 95 someday shrug.

DrStrangelove

02-13-2012, 12:53 PM

2) According to the Census it was 6,640 relics at the time of the Census compared to 3.985 the previous year. http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/10/4.html I'm not sure where you got the 32,000 empyrean number from. It was 27k ish at the time of the Census so that number is probably right or too low. I wouldn't be surprised if there was 10k+ relics at least by now. Still no where near 32k but give it time, relic popularity has gone up recently especially since 90 and 95 trials made many relics equal to if not better than their empyrean counterparts.

Your numbers are perfectly accurate as of the last census. Admittedly, only SE knows the real number today. While mine was more of a guesstimate, the ratio I used 4:1 was apparently pretty darn close. I'll quote your numbers in the future.

As for the gil hurdle on relics, you can solo farm a relic to 75 in a few months time, there's no gil requirement, and you only need help with the attestation/fragment parts and even those are soloable for some people. People only spend gil because it takes less time to make gil than farm the currency. Empyreans are easy to 90. I don't think anyone would argue against that. Relics are also easy. They only take longer because you're limited to 2hrs of dynamis a day while you can spend as much time in abyssea as you have stones for / get TE's. Both weapons are free if you want them to be and saying "I spent 120 mil on a relic, therefore empyreans should spend 150mil on one trial." doesn't add up to me. It makes no sense to have a huge road block in empyrean weapons two trials after you get the weapon skill/aftermath.

Sorry, that was a bit of a rant.

You have good points that I think I already agreed to. If not, I agree. The currency for relics can be done for free and soloed in about 120 hours assuming you have a few of the correct jobs / subjobs. There are of course other tasks and those aren't going to cost gil either. There's time to get the attestation, fragment, 5 x kills of test NM plus ~1,400 kill-shots. What does that take? 30 hours? Maybe more. Some of these are real hateful time sinks.

If we compare it to empys, they 'can' also be free, and as you said, they will be easier. I'm not going to say you can do one from start to level 90 in a weekend, but people don't take 150 game hours to do them. So empy is certainly well ahead of the relic at that point.

Now, not to debate this, but the currency farming issue is a two-edged sword. If you can do the empy from 75 to 90 in 100 game hours, you can spend the 'saved' 50 hours farming 6,250 currency for ~50,000,000 gil. That opportunity cost is hidden unless we see that while both weapons 'can' be free, the relic is never really free.

People will argue as well that you can buy the pops for empys and do them much faster than 100 hours and in so doing save even more time to make even more gil. I'm not going to argue that. I just want to point out that, they aren't 'equally' free.

3) I agree. On the whole, relics are easier to get to 95 than empyreans. They also cost less gil if you chose to go that route. Yes agree

So I guess relics are the easier weapons? The 99 trial remains to be seen. Which is the whole point of this thread. I highly doubt SE is going to ease up on any of the trial requirements than they already have no matter how much we gripe.

We may not know this for a while. I don't think the relics are cheaper or easier depending on how you accept my point about opportunity cost. But the story isn't clear on rift drops or ADL.

We do need the content for both to stay relevant.

Haldarn

02-13-2012, 11:03 PM

レリックウェポン

第1段階強化必要個数：5個
第2段階強化必要個数：250個

ミシックウェポン

第1段階強化必要個数：3個
第2段階強化必要個数：150個

エンピリアンウェポン

第1段階強化必要個数：60個
第2段階強化必要個数：3,000個

From the JP forum.

MarkovChain

02-13-2012, 11:34 PM

1 weapon level II= 50 weapons.

Erics

02-14-2012, 01:39 AM

Well then. It seems SE is going to keep empys at the same exact number needed. Now lets hope we get a dev response stating HMP and cinder/dross will stay in circulation.

Edit: Well. No reports in the update notes stating anything about HMP and dross/cinder. Come on, SE. Seriously going to leave us in the cold on this? Hell, a dev response saying something along the lines of "There is no planned adjustments for HMP, etc etc" would be better than nothing. This is just starting to get annoying. This is a popular thread and yet we are being ignored.

newmonkey

02-14-2012, 03:31 AM

Got to agree with Erics now i was hopeing there would be something in the notes today, but this is begining to take the piss.

wish12oz

02-14-2012, 07:17 AM

stuff

And FYI, since I just checked, people in this thread, including the OP (who has no relic), post repeatedly in Relic threads.

I already responded to your tired drivel about this. To bad you didn't bother to read it.

You have funny posts.

First, I have both a relic and an empyrean, unlike you who has 1 empy (and no relic or mythic) and the OP who has 3 empys (and no relic or mythic). !!

So, of the 3 of us, my opinion, is far more valid.I pay for 5 accounts, I have 3 empyreans and 1 relic and about to be 5 ebisu's, which are sort of like relics, if we're comparing opinions and which persons should hold more weight, I've done more then you, I have more then you, and I pay SE 5x more then you, so it's definitely me, so gtfo.

ALSO: If you're gonna claim to be a big shot, maybe you should not hide on a level 1 mule hiding who you are, I doubt you have anything based on the things you've said, and it's not like you've proved anything to anyone. So take your level 1 self and leave my thread before you make yourself look more dumb.

Where's your proof of your relic and empyrean?

-Posting this again because every time I do you ignore it and disappear from the thread for a few days because you're obviously lying and don't want to be found out.

DrStrangelove

02-14-2012, 08:22 AM

Where's your proof of your relic and empyrean?

-Posting this again because every time I do you ignore it and disappear from the thread for a few days because you're obviously lying and don't want to be found out.

I don't need to prove I have a relic and an empyrean. You're a real hoot. You jumped in a thread on relics and posted nonstop crap in post after post (after post) when you don't own one. Grats on claiming to pay for multiple accounts (of which one has a relic.) That means you know nothing about getting one. What you know about is paying for an account.

That's typical. Confusing easy preezy with work. Having something does not equate to working for it. That is the one thing you can't grasp yet on empys. You think because you have an EASY PREEZY weapon that makes it equal to the work that others put into theirs.

Good luck on that logic.

You started the thread. At that point, it's up to us to choose to post or not post. Not you. You don't get to make the rules on who posts or doesn't. Please do so for us, although it might be good for you too.

You left for a few days and we got some work done. Good job!

Kimble

02-14-2012, 08:34 AM

Jesus, shut up already. You're trying WAY to hard to troll.

Trisscar

02-14-2012, 08:43 AM

I don't think the problem is with th item requirements, but where the items come from. LogWatch isn't a fun event, it requires massive numbers of players, and the drop system is pure BS.

Ravenmore

02-14-2012, 08:59 AM

That and they are making the same mistakes over and over. Alex wouldn't had been that big of a road block if more people did the event. Same thing will happen with emp upgrade items people will tire of VWNM and not bother going back as well as ADL.

Camate

02-14-2012, 09:37 AM

Hello.

I’d like to inform you all about the final number of required items for the relic/mythic/empyrean weapon trials that were implemented during today’s version update.

Adjustments were made to the second stage trials with the same way of thinking as the adjustments made to the first stage. The below are the finalized numbers:

Relic weapons

-Stage 1 required items: 5
-Stage 2 required items: 250

Mythic weapons

-Stage 1 required items：3
-Stage 2 required items：150

Empyrean weapons

-Stage 1 required items：60
-Stage 2 required items：3,000

When we adjusted the numbers for the first stage, we had mentioned that as a goal, it would be possible for more than half of players that have the respective level 95 item to complete it. However, we didn’t touch on the time it would take to complete these trials and since the appropriate difficulty we imagined caused confusion, I’d like to explain about this point a bit.
　
Stage one trial completion time
A good amount of time will be required to complete this trial. The reason being that since these are items with exceptional stats for high level characters, there needs to be an appropriate difficulty level for obtaining them.
If beginning the trials right after implementation, and without competition, we expect the fastest person to complete the relic/mythic weapon trials in less than a week. However, since this item collection will be done in parties and alliances, along with others that also wish to lot on the items, if trials are worked on continuously, and players complete this trial in order, we expect more than half to complete the trial in roughly 3 months.
(We expect empyrean weapons to take quite a bit longer.)
This is the average completion time, so by getting help from others and also purchasing these items, the completion time will be reduced further.
　

Congestion
In regards to relic and mythic trials, we expect decentralization with the steps leading up to the final boss.
We have seen instances of the below comments on the forum, but due to certain reasons we will need to put them off.
-Make monsters in steps along the way drop the items
As long as it’s the same route, this will not serve to avoid congestion and will only make collecting the items easier. In this case, it would become necessary to lower the drop rate and/or increase the number of items required.
As a result, in addition to the number of fights increasing, there would be foreseeable congestion with the paths that have less steps and quicker to get through.
-Increase the number of ???
There are a lot of parts that were created based on the fact that there is only one ???, so increasing the number of ??? is not easy and was not selected as a method.

　
Stage 2 items
First, I’d like to once again share the thought behind the status of the stage 2 items.

Stage 2
Possible upgrades will include special animations along with "Afterglow" effects that grant status benefits to party members.
The corresponding Magian trials will be exceedingly difficult to complete, such that only a select number of PCs will be able to upgrade weapons to this stage.

To put the above in a different way, the stage 2 item is a kind of achievement and one that serves to fulfill self-satisfaction.

By upgrading to the stage 2 item, it will be possible to activate the afterglow effects, but the player who activates the afterglow will not receive the benefits of the effect for themselves, and the reason for this was to make it so this upgrade is not essential.
The same reason applies to why stats are not increased for the stage 2 items.

Also, graphical effects have been added to each item and this was done so players around you would see it and think, “Oh, nice that person upgraded all the way to stage 2.”

When gauging a monster’s strength, we do not make balance adjustments on the basis of relic/mythic/empyrean weapons. Furthermore, we have no plans to make adjustments to monster strength based on the possession of stage 2 weapons in the future.

We greatly appreciate your understanding of these reasons and intentions.

Helel

02-14-2012, 10:19 AM

“Oh, nice that person upgraded all the way to stage 2.”

Unfortunately it's more like, "Oh, that guy was stupid enough to waste time/gil upgrading to stage 2." Aftermath effects are pointless, etc, etc; it's been said a million times.

(We expect empyrean weapons to take quite a bit longer.)

Is this serious? The devs think it's going to take (half of) empyrean users over 3 months to upgrade to 99? It's 60m gil... That's less than a single month of dynamis farming currency.

Assuming you can kill ADL with 12 people, that's 60 days of dynamis. If you can manage 2 kills per run, that's 30, but that's asking a lot for a 12 person group, and it would STILL take longer than upgrading an empyrean.

Come on guys... really?

Kimble

02-14-2012, 10:29 AM

So stage 1 went from "majority" to "about half"? lol.

Erics

02-14-2012, 10:44 AM

Camate, you brought absolutely nothing to this thread. No offence. We are all asking about how you plan to keep things into circulation. Instead, you come and give us information we already knew about. Thanks. -.-

Rezeak

02-14-2012, 10:49 AM

“Oh, nice that person upgraded all the way to stage 2.”

Acully i'll think yea he wasted 50 stage 1 relics, with a side thought of how much the devs don't listen to us.

should of been 50 of a different item that dropped of ADL so stage 1 would of fed Stage 2 and some stage 1 users would of stayed to help finish other but as there say common sense isn't what FFXI works on lol.

Kysaiana

02-14-2012, 10:50 AM

So stage 1 went from "majority" to "about half"? lol.

51% is a "majority" so I guess they were technically correct...

Nightfyre

02-14-2012, 11:08 AM

I want some of what the devs are smoking.

Qtipus

02-14-2012, 11:23 AM

How do you guys post stuff like this with a straight face or at least come off as avoiding any sort of attempt to get the developers to stop being so sadistic?

I upgraded Gungnir when the kill shot trials were still 8K+ only to watch you guys nerf them by 80% and was rather pissed off. I was satisfied with the Glacier (especially post neo-Dynamis) and Xarc trials. I fail to understand how the developers can go from Fail Trials to Correcting Fail Trials to Good Trials to Fail Trials again.

Only way I'm upgrading Gungnir to 99 at this point is to either wait for the inevitable nerf, waste my energy hoping people would be sensible with bazaar prices for that item or waste my energy hoping SE adds those items as a drop from high level critters in the zones. I sure as hell am not dragging an entire linkshell or shout group out to kill ADL upwards of 250+ times just to fuel some sadistic developer's lack of insight into the playerbase they're developing for.

Unctgtg

02-14-2012, 11:44 AM

Again SE failed to listen to its player base. Camate nothing against you, but this thread and MANY others were completely ignored, deleted, locked, unlocked. Is this the way SE has become, ignoring its own playerbase. Guess so, really sad. You asked what we wanted, we gave it to you. Yet all was ignored.

SE's logic is beyond reasoning, it is downright offense to the public, seer stupidity. You have offended us time and time again, this time you are ruining a game that has brought so many of us fun over the years. When you have no player base left, you will have no profits to fund other ventures within the company.

I ask you this, is this good business, NO.

Vold

02-14-2012, 11:54 AM

If beginning the trials right after implementation, and without competition, we expect the fastest person to complete the relic/mythic weapon trials in less than a week. However, since this item collection will be done in parties and alliances, along with others that also wish to lot on the items, if trials are worked on continuously, and players complete this trial in order, we expect more than half to complete the trial in roughly 3 months.

This is the average completion time, so by getting help from others and also purchasing these items, the completion time will be reduced further.
　

After much consideration, back peddling with the backspace key, and reconsideration, I've come to the conclusion that there can be only one response:

/facepalm

And it will go on for the rest of the night accompanied by /shakeshead. 3 months of Dynamis. 90 days. SE expects it to take a person more or less 90 trips on average to get 5 drops. Um. [deep in thought for several seconds, brb] .... that's 180 hours. WHAT? And the original goal was 20? Which probably would have happened btw if not for our disapproval. Um. I could make money for 700 hours-ish and buy a relic for every job, probably. I could buy a few with 180 hours. Yeah I'm happy with lv95. Grats to everyone who attains their 99 weap, though. I just rather work on more weapons than just one of them to make all of my jobs better. I'll have to worry about 99 down the road.

Hohenheim

02-14-2012, 12:02 PM

What a joke SE, what a joke. I seriously am amazed at the dev's intelligence. Thank god they're not running a country.

SpankWustler

02-14-2012, 12:44 PM

Also, graphical effects have been added to each item and this was done so players around you would see it and think, “Oh, nice that person upgraded all the way to stage 2.”

The stage 2 trials no longer make me think, "That poor bastard, he must be married to a cartoon character."

Now they just make me think, "Why did that person not spend that vast amount of time learning to play a musical instrument and wrestle bears instead?"

Avelonia

02-14-2012, 01:26 PM

The stage 2 trials no longer make me think, "That poor bastard, he must be married to a cartoon character."

Now they just make me think, "Why did that person not spend that vast amount of time learning to play a musical instrument and wrestle bears instead?"

I prefer "His father should have shot him in the toilet"

Didgist

02-14-2012, 01:43 PM

You guys honestly think after watching one person get in the entire servers way in an event that has a two hour time limit that people are going to want to pat them on the back?

Wow, give me a job.

wish12oz

02-14-2012, 03:22 PM

I don't need to prove I have a relic and an empyrean.

If you're going to come into this thread and say you have both, are better then other people, and that you should be taken more seriously then them, you better prove you have them, or you'll just continue to be what you are, laughed at and comments not taken seriously by everyone.

You're a real hoot. You jumped in a thread on relics and posted nonstop crap in post after post (after post) when you don't own one.

I do have one, thanks for your concern. I also have 3 empyreans and on Sunday I will finish my 4th and 5th ebisus. Which means I will make 8mil/day, minimum. How long do you really think it would take me to buy a relic outright? At 8mil/day that's just over 2 weeks to get enough gil for a relic. So you can take your poor "I only have 1 level 95 relic and 1 level 85 empyrean" self and cry in a corner all you like about how I can't do anything, but the truth is, I will buy useful stuff, and the only relic I will buying is a g horn for my BRD mule, and guess what, all my weapons will be hitting 99, regardless of if they nerf the trials or not, unlike your 1 emp and 1 relic, even if I have to pay 50m for ADL drops, which I see in 4 or 5 bazaars on my server right now.

Grats on claiming to pay for multiple accounts (of which one has a relic.) That means you know nothing about getting one. What you know about is paying for an account.

You're as bad as the people who think you have to level a job 'the old fashioned way' to know anything about how it functions or is properly played.

That's typical. Confusing easy preezy with work. Having something does not equate to working for it. That is the one thing you can't grasp yet on empys. You think because you have an EASY PREEZY weapon that makes it equal to the work that others put into theirs.

Relics are easier then empyreans, for relics, you can buy currency and go to dynamis twice to kill some lame easy NMs. For empyreans, sure the mobs are easy, but theres like 200 NMs that need to be killed to get it to lvl 85, and guess what, you have to be there for every one of them. That makes it much more time consuming and difficult, because even if you're afk and paying someone to kill the stuff for you, you still need to be there to move to the next NM, or to lot abyssea drops/make sure you don't time out/your inventory doesn't fill with crap drops.

Good luck on that logic.

My logic is pretty sound, you just can't get over yourself to see it.

You started the thread. At that point, it's up to us to choose to post or not post. Not you. You don't get to make the rules on who posts or doesn't. Please do so for us, although it might be good for you too.

You left for a few days and we got some work done. Good job!

lol.... You think you managed to accomplish something, how cute! Looks to me like the trials stayed the same, and SE hasn't said anything about how they plan to keep plates and rift items coming into the server. So I guess you actually didn't accomplish anything, cause that's all I ever really wanted to hear from them.

MarkovChain

02-14-2012, 05:15 PM

I told you ADL's ??? was congested during JP times last week, but you didn't believe me. Seems to be a concern to the JP community. We're a quite far from the butthurt going on here lol. People are basically crying because fighting in alliance is too hardzzz. Also

However, since this item collection will be done in parties and alliances

gnarf.

Kimble

02-14-2012, 05:23 PM

Oh god, is this like you using the censes to prove what the best jobs were? lol

Arcon

02-14-2012, 05:46 PM

So stage 1 went from "majority" to "about half"? lol.

"More than half" (which is what he said, or did you just fail to read?) is the definition of a majority. In fact, it goes above just "majority" and is the definition of "absolute majority", which happens to be the same thing in this case, as there's only two classes (those who upgrade and those who don't).

And it will go on for the rest of the night accompanied by /shakeshead. 3 months of Dynamis. 90 days. SE expects it to take a person more or less 90 trips on average to get 5 drops.

Failed to read as well? 90 trips to get 5 drops for themselves, and 5 for several other people in their LS as well. That's why they said "majority".

I don't believe some people in here. There's so many legitimate complaints about these trials but they go out of their way to pick on absolutely retarded things. If you're angry, making stuff up or throwing random insults won't help. In fact, that kind of random, incoherent bitching is what gets these threads closed.

Creelo

02-14-2012, 05:55 PM

“Oh, nice that person upgraded all the way to stage 2.”

"Oh, nice that person has no life."

"Oh, nice that person is a manipulative con artist!"

"Oh, nice that person wasted ~5 BILLION gil."

"Oh, nice that could be fifty Stage 1 Relics."

"Oh, nice that person is a fucking idiot."

Kimble

02-14-2012, 05:57 PM

You are by far one of the most smug bastards ive ever met on this forum. It's funny because you always say you don't white knight SE but you sure are quick to defend them every time.

You can say 51% is "technically" the majority, but it differently seems what they implied when they announced Stage 1 and Stage 2 has changed from now to then.

macross

02-14-2012, 06:58 PM

Unfortunately it's more like, "Oh, that guy was stupid enough to waste time/gil upgrading to stage 2." Aftermath effects are pointless, etc, etc; it's been said a million times.

Is this serious? The devs think it's going to take (half of) empyrean users over 3 months to upgrade to 99? It's 60m gil... That's less than a single month of dynamis farming currency.

Assuming you can kill ADL with 12 people, that's 60 days of dynamis. If you can manage 2 kills per run, that's 30, but that's asking a lot for a 12 person group, and it would STILL take longer than upgrading an empyrean.

Come on guys... really?

60m gil won't buy you jack shit if there is nothing to buy. Find me 60 riftdross within 5 days of this post and I'll buy them off you for 60m. Actually I just need 46 more. In 5 days of dynamis, I can guarantee finishing a 95->99 relic. 60 ogre kills does not guarantee me anywhere near 60 riftdross. Also to find an ally with 60 stones ready to go kill for you will be impossible. Do you understand why empy trial is way harder now? People don't spam ogre and flan no more, there isn't much supply of dross/cinder now. Just like how you cannot go out and buy 5 umbrals on a whim regardless of how much gil you can throw around., it's pretty hard to buy 60 dross/cinder after the initial supply is gone. You can't just shout, buying 30000 alex, paying 300m, and expect to be done in a day.

They have numbers of how many 95's have been upgraded and how much dross/cinder have dropped. Prob going oh 100 riftdross dropped this month, and there's only 3 people with 95s, so 60 it is! What they don't account for is how people stop farming things once they are bored/finished with it.

MarkovChain

02-14-2012, 08:07 PM

"Oh, nice that person has no life."

"Oh, nice that person is a manipulative con artist!"

"Oh, nice that person wasted ~5 BILLION gil."

"Oh, nice that could be fifty Stage 1 Relics."

"Oh, nice that person is a fucking idiot."

Oh man you are mad™ ->

You are by far one of the most smug bastards ive ever met on this forum. It's funny because you always say you don't white knight SE but you sure are quick to defend them every time.

You can say 51% is "technically" the majority, but it differently seems what they implied when they announced Stage 1 and Stage 2 has changed from now to then.

No it's not everyone (but you) know what maljority means.

60m gil won't buy you jack shit if there is nothing to buy. Find me 60 riftdross within 5 days of this post and I'll buy them off you for 60m.

There is supply don't worry me and mdk found 120 is bazars within 2 weeks, also when loged after the VU there were 5-6 people upgrading to 99. The best way to get them is to camp bazars in UJ et PJ at J¨midnights.

wish12oz

02-14-2012, 08:21 PM

No it's not everyone (but you) know what maljority means.

This isn't English, and maljority isn't a word.
Seriously, I can't even figure out what you were trying to say, please come back and try again.

Kysaiana

02-14-2012, 08:32 PM

I want to know why so many people are raging over 60 riftdross/cinder like they'll even get to the point it will affect them. There isn't enough HMP in circulation no matter how much gil you acquire for half of the empyreans at lvl 90 to upgrade to lvl 95 on any given server. There's probably a handful of people that have 95's already and they likely bought up 60 riftdross or riftcinder that was on the market long before the update went live.

The relic trial is stupid for anyone that doesn't have 12-17 people willing to fight an obnoxious NM 5+ times for X number of relic holders in their shell. Considering how easy it is to build a relic on your own these days I'm willing to bet that's a lot of relic holders.

PW is annoying to build pops for but considering how few Mythics exist at all, it's probably not that hard for a mythic holder to find people to help them kill it 3 times.

So there you go, all three trials are annoying, by design. Can we please stop having this back and forth between empyrean holder and relic holders say "waah my trial is harder than yours for x and y reason!"

I apologize if that was inflammatory, it's just getting really old seeing the same stupid arguments back and forth.

Runespider

02-14-2012, 08:38 PM

I play this game a lot and consider myself somewhat hardcore. I have a relic (95) I created years ago and I have a few emps too that are all 90. I have completely opted out of even trying these new trials, as such I find it quite amusing and it doesn't really bother me how stupid and hard headed they are being.

I do find it amusing that a dev team can be so out of touch with its players and so amateurish at their jobs that they are basically making their players opt out of content lol They have no idea wtf they are doing honestly, the whole point of these is to make people want to chase the rabbit, not sit back, relax and let it run off. If they make timesinks and the vast majority of your target audience won't even attempt to work on it, they failed.

I think working on FFXIV before it failed rotted their brains, almost everything they add is pure and utter junk.

I like how they think people will look with adoration at glowing tards that did stage 2, as has been said I think it will be more like seeing people with a mentor flag (retard alert) and an embarassment.

Arcon

02-14-2012, 10:26 PM

You are by far one of the most smug bastards ive ever met on this forum. It's funny because you always say you don't white knight SE but you sure are quick to defend them every time.

Point out where the hell I'm defending them. I'm not kidding, quote me. Your sense of entitlement is ridiculous because you seem to assume that you represent the core of anti-SE ideas. You think if I tell you that you're a moron I'm agreeing with SE? That I approve of this trial because I pointed out to you that your argument is retarded? Just because I disagree with them doesn't mean I have to agree with you. You think whenever I go against someone who is anti-SE that must mean I'm their asskisser, which in itself is a retarded assumption, but in this case I didn't even attack your anti-SE rambling, I attacked your intelligence, because you obviously lack the required reading comprehension of a first grader if you don't know what the fucking word "majority" means.

You can say 51% is "technically" the majority, but it differently seems what they implied when they announced Stage 1 and Stage 2 has changed from now to then.

The planned difficulty level for the corresponding Magian upgrade trials will be such that a majority of players with the appropriate level 95 equipment will likely be able to complete them.

For the mentally challenged:
majority of players = roughly more than half
will be able to = will be in a position that they can defeat ADL semi-regularly
likely = probably

They said so from the start. And since they announced the 5 Umbral Marrows, you've known what they meant by it. You act so fucking surprised about this now, as if they suddenly came up from behind you and fucked you up the ass. They didn't get your hopes up, you did it yourself. Which is pretty fucking ironic considering your anti-SE streak. If you're really convinced they're so incapable, then you shouldn't have trusted them in the first place.

The trial might be unfair, stage 2 might be completely retarded. None of that changes the fact that you're an idiot.

Dragoy

02-14-2012, 10:43 PM

Time consumed == Difficulty

I just can't quite see it, sorry. =/
I'm sure there are other methods of making things challenging than put a 'time-sink' on it.

Or is it... PS2-limitations?
A-haha... ha...

And that's all I'm going to touch on this borderline hilarious topic. \ö/
Have fun~

newmonkey

02-14-2012, 11:29 PM

Marc i told you sent me a mule with the money you need for the dross and i'll get you them today i'd bring them to you but my xfer isn't up for 2 weeks

macross

02-15-2012, 09:05 AM

I'm sure in 2 weeks i'll still have made little progress hehe.

Trisscar

02-15-2012, 09:09 AM

Mis post, sorry.

Atomic_Skull

02-15-2012, 12:40 PM

Within 30 minutes of servers coming up yesterday there were already people running around with first stage lvl99 relics and emps.

SE: "Working as intended"

Helel

02-15-2012, 09:58 PM

60m gil won't buy you jack shit if there is nothing to buy. Find me 60 riftdross within 5 days of this post and I'll buy them off you for 60m. Actually I just need 46 more. In 5 days of dynamis, I can guarantee finishing a 95->99 relic. 60 ogre kills does not guarantee me anywhere near 60 riftdross. Also to find an ally with 60 stones ready to go kill for you will be impossible. Do you understand why empy trial is way harder now? People don't spam ogre and flan no more, there isn't much supply of dross/cinder now. Just like how you cannot go out and buy 5 umbrals on a whim regardless of how much gil you can throw around., it's pretty hard to buy 60 dross/cinder after the initial supply is gone. You can't just shout, buying 30000 alex, paying 300m, and expect to be done in a day.

They have numbers of how many 95's have been upgraded and how much dross/cinder have dropped. Prob going oh 100 riftdross dropped this month, and there's only 3 people with 95s, so 60 it is! What they don't account for is how people stop farming things once they are bored/finished with it.

I'm staring at a taru right now in bismarck in rolanberry fields selling 6 of them. There's at least 3 people in port jeuno selling them that I saw earlier. I honestly have no idea why you're having so much trouble finding 60 of them. I know people that have bought up their 60 in less than a week. I'm considering upgrading armageddon to 95 just so I can do the easier empyrean trial instead of annihilator. It's cheaper as well since I can continue to do dynamis without penalty (yet another reason why empyrean trial is a joke).

macross

02-15-2012, 10:52 PM

Killed 4 flans today, got one dross from that. Was given to me by a buddy who was 2 boxing her ninja alt for procs.
That taru is a reseller, not gonna buy from him. Plus I don't want to pay 1m for them. Pretty much gouged price since they use to sell for 100-200k each. Cinder is already 500k in many baz, dross will drop I hope too. Too many dreamers buying the dross, hoping one day they will collect 1500 plates and be able to make 99. I know Ihina did his in a week, at least his shell sold their drops to him. Only a few will in mine, the rest rather hold onto them and dream they will finish one day, or rather sell to non LS just to spite me probably. Guess they rather I don't finish it or something I dunno?

We've already completed 2 relics to 99. Hopefully mine will be done next in the next few days, if I'm next in line to get em. Absolute joke to finish relic trial, dunno why you think empy is so much easier. By the time you buy 1500 plates we'll have finished 10 relics or more to 99. In that time we'll have killed another 60 rex/ogres, and I bet you I'll still have no where near 60 dross, as the stupid drops are too random, and you need too many of them.

Francisco

02-15-2012, 11:27 PM

　
Congestion
In regards to relic and mythic trials, we expect decentralization with the steps leading up to the final boss.
We have seen instances of the below comments on the forum, but due to certain reasons we will need to put them off.

Reason #1: You all hurt Tanaka's feelings.

Reason #2: He hates you all.

-Make monsters in steps along the way drop the items
As long as it’s the same route, this will not serve to avoid congestion and will only make collecting the items easier. In this case, it would become necessary to lower the drop rate and/or increase the number of items required.

Tanaka: If the player's diet is.... balanced.... they won't get a cold.... which will serve to... avoid congestion. Balance all the things.

As a result, in addition to the number of fights increasing, there would be foreseeable congestion with the paths that have less steps and quicker to get through.

SE Developer: Mr. Tanaka, if we go through with having one final boss for relic weapons, players will all gather at that one spot...
Tanaka: THOSE LOWLY CURS! SEND THEM TO TOIL IN THE FIELDS!

-Increase the number of ???
There are a lot of parts that were created based on the fact that there is only one ???, so increasing the number of ??? is not easy and was not selected as a method.

Tanaka: "THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!"

Getting sick of this....

Player: *well thought out, reasonable idea"
Dev Team: Yeah, that sounds hard. We're not going to do it.

First, I’d like to once again share the thought behind the status of the stage 2 items.

Tanaka: HAHAHA! I just saw the funniest thing in the news! People in America are protesting the 1%. We need a 1% in Vana'diel. Then the mongrel 99% can occupy their mog house and protest on the forums! And just like real life, none of it will make any difference.

To put the above in a different way, the stage 2 item is a kind of achievement and one that serves to fulfill self-satisfaction.

I can achieve self-satisfaction, on my own, in about 3 minutes. If I wanted the process to take longer and be more painful, I'd use sandpaper and acetone.

By upgrading to the stage 2 item, it will be possible to activate the afterglow effects, but the player who activates the afterglow will not receive the benefits of the effect for themselves, and the reason for this was to make it so this upgrade is not essential.
The same reason applies to why stats are not increased for the stage 2 items.

So the solution is to make it worthless? Here's my feedback. Keep the Stage 1 trials as is, and remove the Stage 2 trials, along with the afterglow weapons. Just delete all that trash. The players will not care. If anything, we'd enjoy it, because Tanaka would probably take it personally and resent us more than he already does.

Also, graphical effects have been added to each item and this was done so players around you would see it and think, “Oh, nice that person upgraded all the way to stage 2.”

Honestly, I'd be more ASHAMED to finish a stage 2 relic/emp/mythic. There's no pride to be had from it... just shame. If I ever won a stage 2 relic/mythic/emp from the mog lotto, I'd make it VERY well known that I won it via lotto, and didn't do it myself.

If I finish a Stage 2 weapon in one year, it basically means "lol, he didn't do anything except play FFXI this year".

If I finish a Stage 2 weapon in five years, it basically means I might make the other guy playing FFXI a little jealous. And I spent five years on a meaningless upgrade. But at least then, I can bust out some champagne, a square of sandpaper and a bottle of acetone and go to town over my afterglow effect.

When gauging a monster’s strength, we do not make balance adjustments on the basis of relic/mythic/empyrean weapons. Furthermore, we have no plans to make adjustments to monster strength based on the possession of stage 2 weapons in the future.

The only one that really makes a difference is Aegis.

We greatly appreciate your understanding of these reasons and intentions.

I think we all under$tand the rea$on$ for the$e lengthy trial$ and adju$tment$.

DrStrangelove

02-15-2012, 11:58 PM

A good amount of time will be required to complete this trial. The reason being that since these are items with exceptional stats for high level characters, there needs to be an appropriate difficulty level for obtaining them.
If beginning the trials right after implementation, and without competition, we expect the fastest person to complete the relic/mythic weapon trials in less than a week. However, since this item collection will be done in parties and alliances, along with others that also wish to lot on the items, if trials are worked on continuously, and players complete this trial in order, we expect more than half to complete the trial in roughly 3 months.

On Bismarck, we have about 500 relics. That's assuming the relics from the May 2011 census were distributed evenly across the servers and a very small increase since then. The real number is likely far higher.

To complete 251 relics (a simple majority) would take 1,255 umbrals in the hands of actual level 95 relic owners, each with 5.

To have 1,255 umbrals in the hands of level 95 relic owners EACH WITH 5 would take at least 2,510 umbrals to drop BECAUSE many people with relics will have fewer that 5, plus many people will be holding them with the intention to make a relic. In reality, the number is likely to be much higher than 2,510.

To have 2,510 umbrals, would require around 3,500 ADL fights. This is because the fight is far from easy, and many of the fights will be done by pick up groups.

To have 3,500 ADL fights in 90 days, assumes 39 ADL fights per day, every day. That's 1 fight per 37 minutes every day, non stop, assuming no maintenance, etc.

Assuming 15 people per group can arrange for 1 fight per day, this requires 39 separate groups of 15, or 585 people on Bismarck to be in Xarcabard each day.

Assuming that the same 585 don't go to Xarcabard each day (they don't play every day, they do other in-game events, they do to different dynamis', there will be difficulty in creating 39 separate instances of parties that can reasonably fight ADL, etc.)....

here are some possible distributions of how this would work:

4,095 people on Bismarck go to kill ADL once per week. Is this reasonable? or
2,047 people on Bismarck go to kill ADL 2 times per week. Is this reasonable? or
1,170 people on Bismarck go to kill ADL every other day for 90 days. Is this reasonable?

The bottom line (and I was conservative in many areas) is that 90 days is far from a reasonable estimate. People will want to work on empys and mythics. There will be new content. There will be congestion. People will get burned out going to Xarcabard to do the same content dozens of times

Reducing the ability to farm and pop ADL does solve the congestion issue: it conversely makes the 90 day estimate even more erroneous. If you have to fight ADL every 37 minutes, non stop for 2,160 hours, then any added delay makes it less feasible.

The likely estimate is at least 6, but more likely 9 months.

It's reasonable to expect that after 4-5 months, many people will give up on the idea as pick up groups dwindle and as the 'market' for umbrals declines.

This is really in need of being more accurate now than later. If we operate on a false premise (it will take 90 days), when the answer is 9 months, it will cause people to delay correcting the problem.

Randnum

02-16-2012, 03:06 AM

With regard to the trials and the intended completion rates, I have nothing to say or complain about, however I of course have no relic to care about.

However I would like to ask, Camate, that, provided enough players agree with what I am about to bring up, that it is passed on to the developers.

Requiring the exact same item for both Stage 1 and stage 2 means, as many have said, that the achievement is, in at least one sense, depriving many other players of their progression.

In short, even if someone were to upgrade to Stage 2, the reaction to their achievement would not be good, because they used up 50 Stage 1 relics worth of items. This would imply that IF someone were to go that far as to complete it somehow, that everyone they went with who desired such a Stage 1 Relic would have had to do theirs first. This inflates the time taken for the Stage 2 trial, or causes players to possibly behave in unseemly ways.

I believe that if it is possible to change at least the Stage 2 to 'number of kills' or use another item (I understand that this would involve adding yet another drop to the loot pool for ADL), this would be preferable both in the way people who achieve this are perceived, and in teamwork levels.

It would allow people who are interested in Stage 2, to have a reason to help people with stage 1, without being their competition while doing so.

Geabrielle

02-16-2012, 03:51 AM

Why do relics keep coming up in an Empyrean thread?

That out of the way; I can understand the upgrade to 99 weapons are supposed to be an epic undertaking. I'm alright with that. But I still have beef about even making it to 95 with that glaring 1500 plate beast of a trial and the lack of circulation of said items. The fact that are expected to purchase the items as well as work towards them in the event is also understandable, but when said items are not being put into circulation because lack of interest in certain mobs, many have gotten the drops they wanted, etc and keeping such a massively glaring requirement for 95 that's pretty much shoving the 8 balls up the poop shoot.

THERE WILL BE ABYSMALLY FEW 99 EMPYREANS BECAUSE 95 ARE A CRAP SHOOT PIPE DREAM.

I'll repeat. I'm alright with the freaking 60 dross, it's been finalized. FINE. 99 weapon. Challenge. Got it.

The 95 however, is butt-plugging the progression and unless you're a gillionaire with nothing better to spend it on, or are incredibly lucky on pouches (IF people even bother with Hahava, Aello or Qilin anymore) everything's fine. But since this isn't the case, at least on Valefor recently, we need an intervention or you just wasted our time and yours.

wish12oz

02-16-2012, 04:03 AM

Why do relics keep coming up in an Empyrean thread?

Good question, but then we got the special Olympics veteran dslove posting again, so it's not surprising.

Randnum

02-16-2012, 04:07 AM

Sorry, I was essentially responding to Camate, who covered all the upgrades in the post that was made at the time.

Erics

02-16-2012, 04:31 AM

Yeah, I love how Camate covered NOTHING we was asking about. CIRCULATION of HMP.

These forums were a great idea....

SE-"WE MAKE TEH FORUMS! GIVE US FEEDS BACK! KAY?"
Player base-"omfgwtfbbq 1,500 HMP!?! Circulation {Can I have it?}"
SE-"Okay well, the point of the trials is too feel satisfied... blah blah blah blah...."
Player base-"Okay? No shit, we heard that before.. Back to the main question please?"

Tamoa

02-16-2012, 04:46 AM

I've just finished checking every bazaar I could find in Ru'lude (171 people in the zone atm) and I found ONE person selling HMP for under 130k. One. Single. Person. He had 2 plates. There might be as few as 10 people bazaaring plates here in total.

130k isn't a lot in itself but it sure as hell adds up fast.

Runespider

02-16-2012, 04:56 AM

Yeah, I love how Camate covered NOTHING we was asking about. CIRCULATION of HMP.

Reps here rarely reply to us, they just translate what the JP devs reply to the similar topic on the JP forum. Only way you will get a reply to that is if it's brought up in the JP post and a reply is translated.

To be fair though it's painfully obvious what is going on, they made stage 1 and 2 the same items to create cockblocks, the HMP numbers are to make them harder to complete seeing as they are easier to make. Everything they have done is by design and with as many hurdles and cockblocks in place to lower the amount of completed weapons as possible.

Perfect, perfect answer as was said was to make stage 2 kills and stage 1 items. That way peope working on stage 2 could make alliances and let people join to freelot the items, they won't do that because it would make it easier to get them done and they don't want that. They don't want a large portion of us to ever complete these weapons, read that and take it to heart because it's the truth, they consider it would be unbalanced for us to all have the final upgrades so they make sure a massive portion won't ever have it at that level.