Arch Dynamis lords difficultly. [Archive]

Rezeak

02-01-2012, 05:56 AM

I would just like to ask the community team to pass on that we feel that Arch dyna lord is too strong if the Dev team want us to fight it repeatedly so is there any chance we will see a ADL nerf like we saw w/ the harder VW mobs?

I would like it so that.
We don't need 2hrs to kill this (especially Alexander) <---- this X 100000000

It's killiable with a solid 6-10 (even if it's a risk)

W/ 18 he should be able to killed reapeatly w/ little risk of wiping.

Honestly the way it is now is imo poorly designed because you can't fight it w/out being invincible (aka alexander)

Before i didn't mind to much cause being near invincible and impossible made arch dyna lord seem cool and obtaining the sword was a noteworthy trophy.

But w/ the new 99 relic trails to be tied into the hardest mob in the game? seems a bit bleh.

(as a side suggestion just make marrow drop of NQ DL at a 20%-40% rate)

wish12oz

02-01-2012, 11:36 AM

(as a side suggestion just make marrow drop of NQ DL at a 20%-40% rate)

I liked your post until this part. ADL should drop 5+ NQ should drop 1+ guaranteed!

Anewie

02-01-2012, 11:55 AM

Anewie

02-01-2012, 11:56 AM

U GUYS just will not give up, lol

so cute

Zinato

02-01-2012, 04:10 PM

Apparently, Anewie isnt the only one opposed to any alteration to the trial. Two threads were deleted including the big one. Seems discussion is closed.

macross

02-01-2012, 07:56 PM

ADL was designed for lvl 90 or was it 95, we are lvl 99 now. Go kill it and stop complaining. At least it's 100% drop 6/6 so far. If anything they should add it to Arch Diabolos, not some NQ DL. At least you don't have to spam flans and ogres designed for 99s, with crappy 5% drop rate and have to collect 60 of them.

saevel

02-01-2012, 08:24 PM

ADL is broken in his current incarnation. You have a flat 33% chance of winning, and that's assuming he doesn't decide to be cheap. His aoe attacks can kill everyone, or put your entire alliance into red HP.

ADL's big issue is that he has ridiculous offensive power, without PD your going to wipe. Once he splits, if you pick the wrong one you wipe. It boils down to a super zerg with a huge portion of luck.

What SE needs to do is,

#1, Remove his ability to spilt, allow him to summon miniature versions of himself but not clones.

#2, Reduce the damage from his AoE attacks and instead give him a large amount of HP, 300,000+ should be enough.

Combine these two together and you get a fight that isn't wholly dependent on luck to win. It turns into an endurance fight instead of a PD zerg.

macross

02-01-2012, 09:12 PM

33%? we're 6/6 so far at lvl 99.

Damane

02-01-2012, 09:21 PM

Shadotter

02-02-2012, 03:18 AM

*shrugs* what if there's a good strategy for Arch that we haven't found yet? There are plenty of NMs that were crazy hard when they came out but we eventually found strategies for most of them to make them beatable at a reasonable pace.

saevel

02-02-2012, 04:30 AM

33%? we're 6/6 so far at lvl 99.

He splits into three clones with no indication on what is the real ADL and which is the clone. If you pick the clone and kill it then it'll just split again. Chances are by then your 2hr PD has worn off and his AoE's are now killing you.

So yes, 33% chance of you picking the right clone.

Nynja

02-02-2012, 04:36 AM

Well this might be useless, but hey, why not.

As it stands right now, ADL a gimmick fight based on luck and based on the use of certain 2-hour abilities (namely Perfect Defense) to ensure the highest rate of success, meaning you can only kill ADL once per dynamis run...twice of all your cors get lucky. Obviously this thread stemmed from the relic upgrade thread(s)...under the basis of manhours required compared to the other two trials, or freedom to work at your own pace...whereas the relic trial you're generally getting one Marrow per group per day, and you have to schedule everyone into a 2 hour window.

Would it be possible to revise the ADL battle to make it less reliant on Perfect Defense, or reduce some of the luck factors so theres actually a chance of being able to complete multiple ADL's in one run, without relying on wildcard hitting 5 or 6 (which falls under luck factors)?

Karbuncle

02-02-2012, 05:11 AM

33%? we're 6/6 so far at lvl 99.

You can have 33% Chance to win and still manage to succeed 6/6. The "33%" Chance is derived from the Idea the ADL Can split into 2, And split again at any time.

Once it splits the first time, you have a 50/50 Chance to chose the right one, You can still kill both though and win, However, if you chose wrong He can split again. Multiple (2/3/4/More?) ADL's can be up at one time.

The % People are referring too are the luck factor. At 99, You can probably kill 2-4 Clones, But if you choose wrong too often, You're SoL.

ADL Is a luck based fight, no question. The Clones split with the same HP, However, So a strategy could be to simply Split your DD, Half fight One clone, half fight the other. So when he splits a second time, He's at much lower HP (if you chose wrong)...

Theres workable strategies, but the fight in itself still comes down to some amount of luck factor.

saevel

02-02-2012, 08:26 AM

You can have 33% Chance to win and still manage to succeed 6/6. The "33%" Chance is derived from the Idea the ADL Can split into 2, And split again at any time.

Once it splits the first time, you have a 50/50 Chance to chose the right one, You can still kill both though and win, However, if you chose wrong He can split again. Multiple (2/3/4/More?) ADL's can be up at one time.

The % People are referring too are the luck factor. At 99, You can probably kill 2-4 Clones, But if you choose wrong too often, You're SoL.

ADL Is a luck based fight, no question. The Clones split with the same HP, However, So a strategy could be to simply Split your DD, Half fight One clone, half fight the other. So when he splits a second time, He's at much lower HP (if you chose wrong)...

Theres workable strategies, but the fight in itself still comes down to some amount of luck factor.

Only issue with that is that ADL has such high offensive power that you won't survive through 2~4 clones. His AoE's can do 1~2k damage to everyone, including mages. They can inflict multiple status ailments, he also can cast cheap spells like Breakga. Since his clones have the same offensive power as he does, fighting two at once will mean twice as many AoE's. Two oblivion smash's or an Oblivion Smash coupled with an Implosion or -ga and you wipe. Your best chance is to guess on one and focus everything you have to kill it as quick as possible and hopefully minimize those crazy AoE's. If you chose the wrong one, then he'll split again. If you brought a second SMN then you have a 2nd chance with another PD zerg (assuming your DD's didn't get whacked). Otherwise he'll just wipe you.

Cursed

02-04-2012, 04:54 AM

Where is the balance in this - PW can be 6 manned with no probs by people with decent experience.
(Please - if you're going to ask "how you deal with fulm spam, GoH, gas" etc etc - you have a few years ahead of you before you can enter this convo)

ADL, regardless of skill, is all about luck.

Return1

02-04-2012, 09:32 AM

First post back after a family incident and it's about sh*t SE did wrong. Feels like normal.

3 PW drops are required. PW was designed to be difficult for a group of 75's. That was 24 levels ago, PW is a joke now. You can easily farm up a PW set in a few hours and take him down with a group of 6 99's, and you can fight as many as you want to farm.

Now look at the relic trial:

5 ADL drops are required. ADL was designed to be a challenging fight with the new level caps in mind. ADL is currently the most difficult fight in the entire game. You have to team up with many others and everyone is chasing the item. You have to gather several trigger items to pop him, but the trigger items can only be farmed in dynamis, which means it cuts down on the time you can fight him. You get 2 hours every 24 hours to farm triggers/fight ADL. How is this fair or "balanced"?

SE is like the fox news of game design atm.

Zarchery

02-04-2012, 02:49 PM

Karbuncle

02-04-2012, 11:56 PM

6-12 months from now, Arch Dynamis Lord is going to fall in with Pandemonium Warden, Absolute Virtue, Vrtra, and all the other NMs that were once thought to be crazy difficult and nearly impossible. People will kill it on a daily basis, players will attach "lol" to it's name, and talk about what a joke it is and complain that SE never adds any challenging content. Just like every time before.

Thats a bold assumption considering the only reason PW and AV became "lol" is because we gained 24 levels on them.

Unless We somehow go to level 120, I don't see how ADL is going to become "LOL" when the biggest problem with his fight is the "Dumb luck" Factor of chosing Door A, B, C, D and so forth when he decides to split.

The only way this could happen is if some way to distinguish which is the real ADL is discovered, then he does become lol.

Zarchery

02-05-2012, 12:05 AM

The only way this could happen is if some way to distinguish which is the real ADL is discovered, then he does become lol.

I'd bet that's what happens. Vrtra and the original Dynamis Lord are probably better examples of my original thesis. They both went from "OMG UNBEATABLE" to "LOL" in the 75 cap days.

Nynja

02-05-2012, 03:42 AM

I'd bet that's what happens. Vrtra and the original Dynamis Lord are probably better examples of my original thesis. They both went from "OMG UNBEATABLE" to "LOL" in the 75 cap days.

Not really...the only way those two fights became lol in the 75 cap days throwing 8 pairs of these at it:
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080706232228/ffxi/images/1/14/KrakenClub.png
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071031020431/ffxi/images/8/81/Gloom_Breastplate.png

Otherwise they werent "LOL" fights.

saevel

02-05-2012, 05:12 AM

Thats a bold assumption considering the only reason PW and AV became "lol" is because we gained 24 levels on them.

Unless We somehow go to level 120, I don't see how ADL is going to become "LOL" when the biggest problem with his fight is the "Dumb luck" Factor of chosing Door A, B, C, D and so forth when he decides to split.

The only way this could happen is if some way to distinguish which is the real ADL is discovered, then he does become lol.

ADL will never become "LoL" unless they adjust both his splitting and aoe's. Otherwise he can still wipe your alliance whenever his AI wants to.

Return1

02-05-2012, 07:43 AM

I don't think Zarchery really understands how battle mechanics work or how difficult those things really were.

Without SE zergs those mobs were either impossible or incredibly difficult. Now most things that come out are given some form of SE resistance thanks to those kills. Now AV/Vrtra/PW aren't so difficult because they don't get level correction against us. That almost always doubles damage, or more, dealt to these mobs. There's also new tools that we've gotten as well.

We'll never erase the level correction from ADL and his attacks are retardedly powerful. If your idea of LOL is requiring a very specific set-up -requiring- a specefic 2hr, and a small LS army, in an age where SE killed off most large and successful LSes capable of easily fielding said armies, then yeah, ADL will totally be lol.

Nynja

02-11-2012, 06:16 AM

so keep a cheap gimmick fight with reliance on 2hr's.....yay

Scribble

02-11-2012, 09:42 AM

so keep a cheap gimmick fight with reliance on 2hr's.....yay

This.

SE needs to actually test their battle mechanics and create something challenging within the confines of what an organized group of assorted jobs can do instead of adding all these mobs that rely on PD zergs.

saevel

02-11-2012, 10:02 AM

This.

SE needs to actually test their battle mechanics and create something challenging within the confines of what an organized group of assorted jobs can do instead of adding all these mobs that rely on PD zergs.

If that picture they posted from the dev lab is anything to note, they ~do~ test it. They test it with players having 9999HP and being invincible.

Helel

02-11-2012, 05:55 PM

There shouldn't be a single mob in the game that requires you to use a 2-hour to defeat it. Horrible design.

Also, that's great for all those who are currently knocking him down, but I'll have made over 150m gil by the time I would have finished 12 relics (assuming you can beat him 100% with 12 people 60 times). Killing ADL is an utter waste of time unless you plan on selling the marrows for ~30m (which is actually a fair price imo). But again... such a waste of gil.

And empyrean people really shouldn't complain. Rift items are selling for 1m max. 60m compared to 150m? Come on.

Rezeak

02-11-2012, 07:54 PM

If ya didn't need 2hrs to kill ADL i'd be fine w/ it even at a 33% chance.

but to rely on a 2hrs and job that are essentially useless outside there 2hr in dyna is annoying and really theres no skill using PD to kill a mob.

macross

02-12-2012, 11:47 AM

What else do you use your 2h for? Find a working strategy that doesn't rely on it then. There's no skill in spaming fanatics in VW either shrug. And what job is useless outside their 2h, in dynamis?

Trial is easy since it's a sure thing and guaranteed drop. Now if you simply free lotted the umbral then it would be hard I suppose. Essentially 'free lotting' and needing 60 drops is what makes empy trial way harder.

Though you could have made 150m gils killing 60 ADLS, what good is all that gil when you can't buy anything you really want with it. For me, it's 60m gils vs free, relic is easier. When my 99 yoichi is finished, I will have spend a grand total of 0 gil creating it. If I buy dross for 1m, then it will be 180m cost for my ukon.

Anyhow back on topic. ADL is killable, team up and do it. The battle needs no adjustments, except maybe to your strategy, teamwork and gear.

Keyln

02-12-2012, 03:39 PM

Heaven forbid we have an actually difficult monster for us to fight! I mean, a fight with actual challenge. Oh noes!

Nynja

02-12-2012, 05:43 PM

No ones complaining about having to fight a difficult monster...the complaint is about the fact you have to kill said monster 5x per relic, and the general basis of the fight states you will need to use 2hr's to kill it, and you only have 2 hours in dynamis per day.

MarkovChain

02-12-2012, 05:58 PM

ADL will never become "LoL" unless they adjust both his splitting and aoe's. Otherwise he can still wipe your alliance whenever his AI wants to.

ADL is lol because of perfect defense. Way to many QQ here again. I don't really see the difference between SMN 2H and not SMN 2H. There are easy way to kill it multiple times per run with PD - for instance having mules (and not alt) coming smn for the fight. But that's not really needed as you only require 5 kills. I'm actually pretty happy that there is finally some difference between the gimps that can't kill it and those that can.

Also nynja always spreads his bullshit in all threads on the matter even though he has been proven many times to be wrong. I do seriously think that for instance getting 5 ADl drops will be faster than upgrading a salvage body of the good old days (something that he couldn't do clearly).

Nynja

02-12-2012, 06:05 PM

I'm pretty sure if you brewed your Draguas because you couldnt kill it otherwise you dont have any right to call people gimps for any reason...juuuuuuuuuust sayinnnnnnnnn

and you keep changing your story on difficulty of the fight. You're still refusing to post any proof of your paper math actually making sense.

saevel

02-12-2012, 08:00 PM

Heaven forbid we have an actually difficult monster for us to fight! I mean, a fight with actual challenge. Oh noes!

Except ... its not a challenge at all.

It's about as challenging as obtaining a Toci's harness.

RNG God is your greatest enemy.

Return1

02-12-2012, 08:39 PM

Markovchain is pchan ffs, if he's agreeing with something you know it's fucked up.

No one's complaining about the mob difficulty, they're complaining about the retarded upgrade system.

They made it so you have to compete against other relic holders instead of benefiting by teaming up, like every other relic trial in existence. If we had any benefit whatsoever to teaming up, this trial wouldn't be so bad. Now every pickup relic holder is competition for the drop. So you either need to have a large LS that's willing to waster their personal dynamis time to help you with JUST your upgrade, or you are forced to buy it for obscene gil after said lses get done gearing their leaders.

Mythic 99 trials are a joke compared to 99 Relic trials, as is 99 emp.

macross

02-12-2012, 09:25 PM

It would be even more retarded if it was based on kills. First it wouldn't be 5 kills but prob like 50-100 kills. Once people kill their 100th then how would a new relic holder even begin to do their trial. 5 kills per relic is a joke. People are just complaining because they are simply unable to kill ADL. That isn't SE's fault but the solo bsts or non LS'd people.

A large LS doesn't just do ADL just for you, they do it for everyone in the LS. Shouldn't be as concerned with your personal wealth and gains as the benefit to the whole. I bet majority of you posters have never even attempted nor killed ADL.

Nynja

02-13-2012, 01:50 AM

People are just complaining because they are simply unable to kill ADL.

No it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that 12-17 other people are being raped of 7 days their dynamis time per relic to upgrade. If this fight had no reliance on 2hr's and ADL didnt have a magical "FK YOU" instakill button no matter what you do, and actually let you kill 2-3 in 1 run...no one would really care.

How do you kill multiple of something in a 2 hour period when the fight MANDATES the usage of 2 hour abilities?

You know, you've been preaching the whole "you dont have a LS, your LS sucks, etc etc"...if your LS is so willing to kill ADL every day, how come you cant get your LS to kill rex/alima all day every day?

MarkovChain

02-13-2012, 02:14 AM

Nynja you and BG are the only ones thinking that ADL requires a full alliance of 18 to be killed. It literally melts like ice in fire, YOU clearly never fought it.

Secondly the reason you can't have your LS kill VNM everyday is simple. I'll be using your argument. Why would you steal people of their every day 2H of dynamis ? Oh look ! Also their drop is complete garbage. The athos set is not even good for melee rdm. Ogier doesn't look like it's some credible gear. Why would you steal your LS time for mostly garbage drops ? Let the pinks farm the crap and supply us with cheap riftcinder already and be clever and allow the great players to max their weapons. I mean what's better ? The best weapon in the game or subpar gear that maybe sometimes beats something already existing ? Dynamis go.

Dude I'm going to post a video soon to prove you your gimpness when I'm done with with empy and other stuff. Just shut up. I'm going to go even farther than what I claimed. I claim that a pimp out party of 6 players will destroy ADL to less than 25% before it splits , and that a decent ally of 10+ people is necessarily putting the NM at ~5% when it splits, making it essentially a joke barring dynamis implosion.

PS ; the stoneskin thing is bullshit

Nynja

02-13-2012, 02:16 AM

Dude I'm going to post a video

only took you two weeks...how many times in that 2 week time frame did you wind up wiping to stuff? lol

MarkovChain

02-13-2012, 02:18 AM

Can you post a video of you killing ADL ? Nope, and everyone knows why. I'm in need of gil and various crap right now and will probably be touching Nyzulz like 99% of the server.

Kitkat

02-13-2012, 02:29 AM

My LS has attempted ADL, everything goes pretty smooth until 1 or 2 things occur: Oblivion smash gets off doing a lovely 1400~2k dmg (based on job type) or clones appear. Clones tend to mimic in TP gain using moves simultaneously which can totally destroy the alliance between both attacks if they end up being AOE since not only are the AOE Moderate to extreme damage one of them can cause instant death while ignoring shadows, so I think people have a rather relevant reason to complain about this trial.

At least with Rex/Alima you get procs/temps to help you out on that difficult fights making them much easier by far. Unless the AOE changes they are making significantly reduces damage others take or they somehow add additional items to use during the fight ADL is more or less a hit or miss fight that you most likely will get 0-2 done per day.

I wouldn't go as far as to say ADL at 99 is as difficult as AV was at 75, but it is not nearly as easy as PW at 99 or rex/alima. Not to mention the amount of times per day you can do the fights in comparison. It is a valid complaint.

Natasha

02-13-2012, 04:12 AM

Nynja

02-13-2012, 06:37 AM

wheres this damn video already?

Yarly

02-13-2012, 09:56 AM

I don't think that 6people is low enough. I don't have that many friends. I vote to change it so that I can kill it on my BST99. I deserve to beat this monster just as much as anyone else, I pay my monthly fee to have fun, not to wait for people to shout for this kill and hope I can have all the drops. I'm a paying customer, therefore I'm entitled to all content

Return1

02-13-2012, 10:00 AM

I'd rather have to do a lot of ADL kills than 5 items. At least then I wouldn't have to force 10-17 other players to sacrifice easily 14-20mil each for me alone to upgrade my relic, and there'd be some benefit to teaming up with other relic holders, other than planning to ninja their drops like you know will happen.

SE wants people to play together, then they implement a system that encourages people to work against each other. It's fucking stupid.

Return1

02-13-2012, 10:03 AM

Entitlement is like a disease. You're entitled to play the game, not get everything you want.

macross

02-13-2012, 12:23 PM

You can always pay those people 1m each to help you. Better than nothing. If it was kills and you missed a few, then you would be sol wouldn't you. So would anyone else who wasn't there from the start.

macross

02-13-2012, 12:33 PM

No it has nothing to do with that. It has to do with the fact that 12-17 other people are being raped of 7 days their dynamis time per relic to upgrade. If this fight had no reliance on 2hr's and ADL didnt have a magical "FK YOU" instakill button no matter what you do, and actually let you kill 2-3 in 1 run...no one would really care.

How do you kill multiple of something in a 2 hour period when the fight MANDATES the usage of 2 hour abilities?

You know, you've been preaching the whole "you dont have a LS, your LS sucks, etc etc"...if your LS is so willing to kill ADL every day, how come you cant get your LS to kill rex/alima all day every day?

My LS does ADL once a week, not every day. We do arch diabolos the other. Though this might change that the trial is active. We prob won't do it more than 2 days a week though. Other 5 days are for people to farm. We do flan and ogre 4x each a week too. Needing 5 umbrals and 60 dross, makes dross take way longer, especially since not everyone trades, nor does dross even drop 100% of the time.

Scribble

02-13-2012, 01:42 PM

There are easy way to kill it multiple times per run with PD - for instance having mules (and not alt) coming smn for the fight.

Because everyone pays for a second account they specifically leveled SMN on and went through all the ToAU quests to get PD with. Yeah, we all did it.

The fact that you posted that and left it in after you edited the post makes you worthy of ignore lol

MarkovChain

02-13-2012, 03:37 PM

it's not a second account it is a mule. And yeah it's easy and if you you don't want to do missions from AU you can always have a mule cor 65+ for each member of the group. This doesn't look too hard. Rank 6 takes 4 hours, dynamis wins are fairly easy too.

Return1

02-13-2012, 05:28 PM

I told you pchan was a tool.

Also, if you needed kills, and you missed one, it's not a big deal because people are almost constantly finishing relics these days, and you can just catch the next pick up group.

No one wants to do a pickup group for this fight as it currently stands, with many good reasons to boot.

Nynja

02-13-2012, 06:01 PM

wheres the god damn video ?!?

MarkovChain

02-13-2012, 06:26 PM

More good info on ADL (aka not one from BG nor its unverified wiki). The first clone appears exactly after 30 sec into (pop time -> sumonning time) the fight which implies that a minimum of 6 real DDs (aka level 90+ empy monks with soulvoice ma/ma/min&haste) should bring ADL to ~zero% before it splits leaving you with pale copies of maybe 1% HP. This makes a setup of 6 MNK/WAR 1 BRD 1 SMN basically 100% win (baring dynamic implosion and death, the last one rarely happens).

ADL has about 100k HP (it actually an upper bound since light is not appearing in log). A single monk does about 15.5k damage in the first 30 seconds before it splits. That means 4 monks leave it at ~35%-40% HP remaining and 6 monks leave it at ~7% HPs left.

Also the next clone is not time based.

Scribble

02-13-2012, 06:58 PM

Even if it's on the same account, leveling and questing a mule for the sole purpose of defeating something that shouldn't require the effort is still too much to ask. Not at all in the realm of reasonable.

wheres the god damn video ?!?

Demonstration please.

Rezeak

02-13-2012, 07:32 PM

This makes a setup of 6 MNK/WAR 1 BRD 1 SMN basically
i'll just point out

1 SMN for 6 DDs doesn't work you can only have 6 people in a party

FFXI basics you can only fit 6 people in a party.

100% win (baring dynamic implosion and death, the last one rarely happens)

As a famous philosopher said....
"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works 100% of the time."

either way baring all the lol stuff i'll help ya play BRD

as for ma/ma/min

if you mean madigral x 2 + min
Then Min x 2 + Mad >>>>>>>> that (in soulvoice cause 1 acc song should cap you out then)

if you mean march X 2 + Min

you said you can take it too 1-0% in 30sec sooooooo why you casting haste songs because the job abilty hundred fists caps out haste for MNK and that last 45 secs

Either way i think ya need to work out what acc does or how mnk/brd works either way yawn.

MarkovChain

02-13-2012, 08:34 PM

It only means the 5 will not get PD so what ? All you care about is that it bring ADL fast enough until it clones. Each monk as just about the time to do 2 WS before it splits, including the first intial 300 TP one, usuallly it ends up splitting right when you are about to WS for the third time, so yeah It works out the same because it can't possibly kill you the first 30 sec, as it is solo.

Either way I'm going to help you play FFXI. 2x march caps your haste for 3+ minutes so yay go hide in corner, you are an idiot basically.

Return1

02-13-2012, 08:56 PM

And again we witness another pchan gem.

Rezeak

02-13-2012, 09:24 PM

I claim that a pimp out party of 6 players will destroy ADL to less than 25% before it splits

It only means the 5 will not get PD so what ? All you care about is that it bring ADL fast enough until it clones.

ADL has about 100k HP (it actually an upper bound since light is not appearing in log). A single monk does about 15.5k damage in the first 30 seconds before it splits.

Either way I'm going to help you play FFXI. 2x march caps your haste for 3+ minutes so yay go hide in corner, you are an idiot basically.

If ya take longer 60 sec PD will be pretty much gone meaning your saying that making the mnk do 100% more dmg for 1/4 of of the fight after it has cloned(if it lasts that long) where you want to do as much DMG as possible in the first 30 secs so the clones have low hp or dead is basically calling yourself wrong.

Let just take 900 attack mnk (w/ SV Minuet V ) SV Min 4+3 in berserk adds (250 attack) which is roughly a 26% DMG increase

So in 60 sec Min x 3 vs Ma/ma/min is equal but here's the point you made.

If ya trying to do as much dmg in 30sec as possible so it won't spawn clones or spawn low hp clones

w/ 126% DMG the clones will have less hp means your Marchx2 MNK sould have to deal 3 x more DMG once hundred fist were off and by this time you'll only have like 15-20 sec before PD is all but useless and ur gonna wipe so mathmatically useing march is dumb on hundred fist mnks.

if ya replaced that mnk w/ a SCH then you could have capped haste after the hundred fists so you's have an increase in MNK dmg by 26% each meaning that one mnk that did it's 2 WS before dieing (why you didn't have a Ukons or mighty stikes resolution WAR/SAM here is i guess you havn't play anything but mnk) would be outperformed in that time after hundred fist(if ADL is still alive) hell even a THF for Fenit or a DRG for angon would be a better improvement most likly than a 6th unprotected MNK.

either way mathematically your wrong and even in your own statements you prove ya self wrong haha.

As a side side side side note 1 march + Min + min beats mar/mar/min in all cases when ya consider hundredfist in say a 90-180 sec fight.

btw pchan i'm not saying your wrong about being able to kill ADL w/ 7 people all i'm saying is that way your doing is not the best way and i'm only trying to help you learn how to play mnk or brd.

i'll leave it there not gonna respond on anything else posted ^^ thx pchan for making it one of the most viewed threads tho :)

MarkovChain

02-13-2012, 11:26 PM

My god you are really bad. You don't know that between the summonning animation of adl and the time that you are disengaged and reengage is roughly 15 sec, at which point hunderd fists wears off you you don't kill shit anymore. You need your march to kill the clones dude. Finally you are capped on attack with

dia2/berserk/impetus/red curry buns/minuet V so yeah, bullshit :p

so congrats on your useless tripple minuet paired with "hunderd fists wear off" on the clones.

Nynja

02-14-2012, 12:23 AM

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
still no video
gtfo

MarkovChain

02-14-2012, 12:52 AM

where is yours?

Nynja

02-14-2012, 12:58 AM

I havent been posting for 2 weeks how ADL is a joke, how the pop NM's can be duoed and how ADL can be killed by 6 people without 2hr's. If I make absurd claims like that, I back them up, or accept I was wrong. You dont do that, you make absurd claims, and then when people ask for a shred of proof, you just go "suck less".

To top it off, YOU were the one who finally manned up and said you'd provide proof of the deed actually being doable, and now in typical pchan fashion, you're backing out. Why? Did you wipe mercilessly with 6, despite your paper math showing how it should be so easy to kill ADL?

MarkovChain

02-14-2012, 02:15 AM

You have yet to explain us, with a video, as to why pop NM are impossible to duo.

Rezeak

02-14-2012, 02:27 AM

dia2/berserk/impetus/red curry buns/minuet V so yeah, bullshit :p

Except it isn't

btw minuet x3 isn't what i'd use Min/mar/mad <--- since this performs over the best regardless.

well i prolly wouldn't use a BRD more likly a SCH and COR

Nynja

02-14-2012, 03:12 AM

You have yet to explain us, with a video, as to why pop NM are impossible to duo.

Priceisrightfailsound.youtube
Theres your video

MarkovChain

02-14-2012, 03:36 AM

Except it isn't

btw minuet x3 isn't what i'd use Min/mar/mad <--- since this performs over the best regardless.

well i prolly wouldn't use a BRD more likly a SCH and COR

Why do you need accuracy on a level 90 mob ? You should team up with nynja, I'm sure that with your awesome songs you would still fail to farm an ADL popset.

Mahoro

02-14-2012, 04:04 AM

You have yet to explain us, with a video, as to why pop NM are impossible to duo.

You are the one making the claim. Why should HE have the burden of proof?

Can you even imagine what a video of two people FAILING to duo a mob would entail? It would invite endless comments to the effect of "oh well you should have done this," "your healer should have done this," or "oh you should have brought that job or had this Empy etc etc".

Rezeak

02-14-2012, 04:14 AM

Why do you need accuracy on a level 90 mob ? You should team up with nynja, I'm sure that with your awesome songs you would still fail to farm an ADL popset.

Cause it's a lvl 99+ mob?

MarkovChain

02-14-2012, 04:42 AM

You are the one making the claim. Why should HE have the burden of proof?

Because he has been explaining for now 2 weeks that a duo cannot kill those level 90 NMs that are jokes. Same guy explained us that he couldn't kill tough mobs in dynamis at level 95 cause they were too hard, that they didn't have a better droprate even when confronted with numbers.

Cause it's a lvl 99+ mob?

Because it is not ? No accuracy needed. Suck less;

Mahoro

02-14-2012, 06:19 AM

I understand that, but he was refuting YOUR claim and simply asking for proof. Your response to his request for proof is basically "prove to me you can't do it." This does not advance your original claim :P

Kiyara

02-14-2012, 06:33 AM

Seriously MarkuvChain, you have got to be the biggest conceited prick on this forum. Your ego level is on par with Varrion and Dankdragon on Diabolos. You would make them proud. Just because I/these people haven't beat ADL doesn't mean I/these people suck. Not everyone has no life and plays this game at a super hardcore level like you do.

You sound like one of those Marvel VS Capcom 2 tourney players that use Magneto, Storm and Sentinel and tell everyone that the only way to beat anything is to be broken with top tier. Get your head out of your ass.

Swear to god if I ever met you in real life I'd beat the crap out of you. This is beyond this game now. This is just plain you are a stupid arrogant prick that needs a dose of reality and humility (something of which you will never be capable of).

Nidhogg

02-14-2012, 07:21 AM

He falls over with just 5 people if they're properly geared, haven't had a problem taking down both clone and real if we pick the wrong one.

Brolic

02-14-2012, 07:24 AM

Brolic

02-14-2012, 07:27 AM

For all the nitpicking a lot of what they're saying isn't wrong, instead of focusing on what they've said in the past look at what they're saying now.

Killing adl isn't as daunting as people are making it out to be, more so now that people are going to have a reason to kill it, it can only be expected that new tricks and tips will be developed as people go along making the fight even easier

Nynja

02-14-2012, 08:10 AM

There was hope of a trick to eliminate one of the bullshit luck factors, but it wound up being false. It doesnt change the fact this fight has not one, but two, "Go Fk Yourself" moves that will cause you to wipe no matter how good you are (1-the fact you can kill clone after clone, 2-tera slash instant kill).

I'm sure 4 pups can kill it...just have to hope it doesnt do teraslashdeath.

Yinnyth

02-14-2012, 09:45 AM

He falls over with just 5 people if they're properly geared, haven't had a problem taking down both clone and real if we pick the wrong one.

orly? I'd be interested to hear what strategy you use that proves to be so effective with so few people. I'd be even more interested to see a video of it in action. We've made 3 attempts recently with 6 players and 2 mules, and on all 3 attempts, the first clone shut us down around 5% HP by using dynamic implosion. And it's not so much a matter of gear seeing as how all the characters (except one of the mules) have relics and empies.

MarkovChain

02-14-2012, 05:20 PM

Dynamic implosion doesn't happen often, if he does it try again. Pop set are easy to farm it's not a real problem. The only time. I've seen death on terra slash once back at level 90 and when it happens it is single target who cares. I'm more interested to what exact % people are bringing it before split. For me it is 45% ish and always after 30s so I assume that with stronger mnks I can get get below. I've seen a slow kill youtube vid where it also splits at 30s and another one where it took 20sec so I assume it is also % based.

I'm sure 4 pups can kill it...just have to hope it doesnt do teraslashdeath.

lololol. As expected little by little we know where the thread is going.

Nynja

02-14-2012, 05:26 PM

going to where you've already brought it...papermath.

Soidisant

02-14-2012, 05:47 PM

He doesn't do Dynamic Implosion often? He has attempted to use it on every single one of our last 5 pops (got it off on 3 of them). If he uses it directly after cloning then you have little chance of stopping it or recovering. Rarely you may be able to recover but it requires him to be very nice with what he does whilst you're terrored plus the moves he uses after it wears.

Seeing Tera Slash proc only once is also incredibly fortunate. I've died on 3 of those 5 pops to Tera Slash. All of those were the first Tera Slash I ate in the fight and he has never killed me with any other move. The death procs on it more often than it doesn't. On one pop last week it triple cloned and immediately did Tera Slash x3 dropping 7 people with the instant death message (he repopped in a strange place so caught people off guard with positioning). He has used Tera Slash on every one of our last 5 pops and only once have I seen the death not proc on at least one person.

And these are not long drawn out fights increasing the chances of him using those moves. All fights have ended one way or another before PD wore.

He also absolutely does not clone at 30 seconds every time. It has been quicker than that on every one of our attempts. On one of those pops it was between 15 and 20 seconds until he cloned (30 second buffs that were used before popping were still up after he cloned)

EDIT: Your post wasn't editted to say about the 20 seconds when I started posting mine.

macross

02-14-2012, 07:05 PM

Yeah, exactly 30 sec, it would be dead before it even cloned. It's likely % based.

Yinnyth

02-14-2012, 07:09 PM

Soidisant speaks the truth, Pchan is full of poochan. Tera Slash death proc rate is so high, I remember seeing one of the first YouTube vids of ADL fail where Tera Slash killed 5+ people in the cone who all had PD on.

Side note, his cloning appears to be delayable the same way you can delay a NIN from using mijin (keep him stunned during all the times he would attempt to use it and just keep feeding him TP). As soon as he starts the summoning animation though, he's immune to everything until his clones pop. It also seems that the lower you get him before he clones, the more clones you get to deal with.

MarkovChain

02-14-2012, 10:07 PM

Are you sure or does it only "seems". It never poped more than 2 of the first split also it never did dynamis implosion until 1/30 into the fight for us so yeah... I think you guy do something wrong, way to many TP given for the damage you are doing.

Soidisant

02-14-2012, 10:55 PM

I'm positive. If you had 30 seconds before cloning then you would be able to kill him before he cloned.

The amount of clones he summons varies based on the HP he clones at. So if you have only ever seen 2 clones, it's because he always clones for you above 40% ish.

Whilst our TP feed is going to be higher than yours purely because we don't only use MNK's, it doesn't really come into it when he decides to use Dynamic Implosion immediately after cloning. He can have zero TP on cloning and will still TP as soon as he repops. And it's not like he can only use Dynamic Implosion at low HP, I've seen him try use it (it got stunned) as the very first TP move of the fight.

Don't get me wrong, we do beat ADL (with the odd fail due to Implosion or unlucky Tera Slash). I'm just saying it is nowhere near as simplistic as you make out.

Atm as far as I'm concerned the best way to handle this fight is just brute force. If your DD's are good enough then you'll win more often than not but it won't change the fact that you need 2x PD per attempt. And even then ADL can and will occasionally completely screw you over with TP choice.

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 01:43 AM

I didn't say it's always 30 sec before it clones did you read ? I was asking until which % it is 30 sec, because as everyone has been explaining to Nynja and other BG rejects, ADL dies very fast so I know an ally of decent DD is going to rape it before 30 sec.

*Imo you should just allow DD to do one WS then back off let it split into two clones and assign 3 melees at least to each clone (if you do it in ally), but clearly that's not really the problem. How many clones on average are you seing ?

Nynja

02-15-2012, 02:46 AM

or you could post this alleged video you have to show us how much we suck and how godly awesome youare

Soidisant

02-15-2012, 03:22 AM

You did say 30 seconds earlier which is what I was going by.

We normally see 2 clones. As soon as we realised he spawns more clones at a lower % we changed our strat to hold back until after he clones.

Our current strat is basically

4x DD COR SMN
4x DD COR SMN
SCH SCH BLM BLM BRD/BLM/SMN BRD/BLM/SMN (Last two slots pending on how many people we have)

Give the 2 DD parties PD + Haste + Embrava + March/Min/Min/Scherzo (We know this is Haste overkill. It's in case he dispelgas some away)

Have the DD's hold back until he clones. Then 1 party on each clone with BLM's AoE nuking and tossing stun at their designated clone if its up. SMN's use the Ramuh stun BP.

And I don't think we'll be able to do much more than that unless something new is discovered about him or new strat is devised.

Yinnyth

02-15-2012, 03:55 AM

I didn't say it's always 30 sec before it clones did you read ?

If you didn't, then someone has your account info and is making you look like a fool on the forums.

BAM!:

More good info on ADL (aka not one from BG nor its unverified wiki). The first clone appears exactly after 30 sec into (pop time -> sumonning time) the fight which implies that a minimum of 6 real DDs (aka level 90+ empy monks with soulvoice ma/ma/min&haste) should bring ADL to ~zero% before it splits leaving you with pale copies of maybe 1% HP. This makes a setup of 6 MNK/WAR 1 BRD 1 SMN basically 100% win (baring dynamic implosion and death, the last one rarely happens).

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 04:06 AM

Well then I have hopes that my ultimate setup allows you to kill 3 copies. Ideally I would use

* a BRD with daurdabla 90+ with a mule (same account) having MNK with 90+ empy leveled.
* a SMN with capped skill (for enfire and EA)
* 4 MNK/WAR with 90+ empy

1-The basic strat would be to have the BRD troubadour the song buffs then the melees hold the buff onto the ???
2-BRD logout then back in on his mnk mule
3-SMN PD everyone (at this point 5 mnks are buffed)
4-smn hastes everyone and mnks hold buffs
5-smn does the ifrit enfire move then EA 1 min later
6-mnk do impetus then berserk and hold
7-SMN does PD, pops and does dia2
8-bring to 40% with 1 WS per monk (=the initial one with 300 tps)
9- when it summons turn toward the grid to avoid being pulled back
at this point all monks have tp
10-2 mnks on one clone and then three others on the last one
11-hope for not getting implosioned

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 04:07 AM

If you didn't, then someone has your account info and is making you look like a fool on the forums.

BAM!:

BAM you clearly didn't notice the "before it splits part".

Yinnyth

02-15-2012, 04:56 AM

Wow, that's some potent denial you have going there. Ok, I'll use the "before it splits part" instead.

ADL has about 100k HP (it actually an upper bound since light is not appearing in log). A single monk does about 15.5k damage in the first 30 seconds before it splits. That means 4 monks leave it at ~35%-40% HP remaining and 6 monks leave it at ~7% HPs left.

I didn't say it's always 30 sec before it clones
Actually, sir, you did indeed say that the clones appearing are time based, and the time before the clones appearing is indeed 30 seconds, which you now deny as fallacy, yet do not accept that you were the person who brought forth that fallacy on these forums. Such behavior is unbefitting a gentleman, if I do say so myself.

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 05:42 AM

Yes, I confirm what I said. The clones pop at exactly 30s unless you bring them to unknown amount of HP before that. You on the other hand are claiming they are not time based apparently.

Rezeak

02-15-2012, 05:44 AM

I didn't say it's always 30 sec before it clones did you read ? I was asking until which % it is 30 sec, because as everyone has been explaining to Nynja and other BG rejects, ADL dies very fast so I know an ally of decent DD is going to rape it before 30 sec.

More good info on ADL (aka not one from BG nor its unverified wiki). The first clone appears exactly after 30 sec into (pop time -> sumonning time) the fight which implies that a minimum of 6 real DDs (aka level 90+ empy monks with soulvoice ma/ma/min&haste) should bring ADL to ~zero% before it splits leaving you with pale copies of maybe 1% HP. This makes a setup of 6 MNK/WAR 1 BRD 1 SMN basically 100% win (baring dynamic implosion and death, the last one rarely happens)..

exactly
adverb
Without discrepancy (used to emphasize the accuracy of a figure or description)

I'm also surprised noone has call pchan on the fact WAR is a better zerg job than MNK

No clue if Souleater is nerfed on ADL but if it isn't DRK is as well. (not to mention souleater isn't on a 2hr recast ^^)

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 05:45 AM

Because WAR sucks and drk is not a job, nevermind that fact that high% ODD at 300% tp strongely favors monk...

Rezeak

02-15-2012, 05:47 AM

Because WAR sucks and drk is not a job, nevermind that fact that high% ODD at 300% tp strongely favors monk...

The ODD that only procs on one hand yes,,, vs the odd that can proc on every hit for a Ukkos war + 100% crit rate)

30% > 15% thx

Return1

02-15-2012, 05:49 AM

pchan is retarded enough to think ADL is a level 90 mob, why does anything else it says bother you?

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 05:53 AM

It's fun to see how nynja is be ridiculised in the relic thread where someone is explaining him even NQ DL is duo-able.

Zumi

02-15-2012, 05:54 AM

The level 99 Relic Trail is the most horribly designed trail out there its hard compared to the other 2. ADL isn't a hard fight by any means, its just a zerg him down with perfect defense type fight with little skill involved use a few ofensive JA and WS him till he is dead. The actual hard part is gathering the 12-17 other people to help you kill it for only your benefit. The days of huge linkshells are pretty much gone for the most part for most people. Most players only know a couple people that they do stuff with on FFXI. Most people will not want to help you because they view it as a waste of their time. Sure you can offer people 1m a kill but I doubt you get many takers. Because the solo farm rate is actually higher. Your talking in the range of like 17m for 1 item. Very few people in FFXI are willing to do something for free or help someone else out just for the sake of helping someone out.

Void Watch is easily pug-able I see pick up groups forming for tier 6 on a daily basis, people sell the trail drops for 300k-600k on average. This makes getting an empyrean weapon done much easier. Everyone gets their own drops so there really isn't a conflict with loot or anything here.

Mythic Weapons have it easy too because all your doing is killing a bunch of NMs designed for level 75. I killed PW at level 90 and he could barley even hit my Paladin for above 10 damage. The only time I took more damage when is when he summoned some caster adds. This fight is such a joke now.

Relic trail is so much harder to finish then the other 2.

Ways to fix it would be.
Make Umbral Marrow drop from NQ Dynamis Lord at a lesser rate.
Make Umbral Marrow buyable from Dynamis goblins in the beastman strongholds with dynamis currency. So the solo player can eventually finish them.

Pretty much all the other trails were soloable up till this point.

If nothing changes I would just forget about upgrading my Excalibur to 95 to 99 and do my Almace to 99 instead because it would be so much easier.

Atomic_Skull

02-15-2012, 07:11 AM

I would just like to ask the community team to pass on that we feel that Arch dyna lord is too strong if the Dev team want us to fight it repeatedly so is there any chance we will see a ADL nerf like we saw w/ the harder VW mobs?

It's funny how people have gone from "we don't want time sinks we just want a challenge with guaranteed rewards" in years past to "Oh what the hell lets stop pretending. We just want everything easy"

5 Umbral marrow is not hard unless you are one of those who abandoned your LS when abyssea came out to dual box because you thought you'd never need them again. Anyone with good standing in a decent LS isn't going to have problems getting this done. It'll take you a few events over maybe a month (weekly) to get it finished. If you dumped your LS last year well tough, you screwed yourself. I'm now laughing my ass off at everyone who told me I was dumb for sticking with an LS.

As for Stage 2, SE has said that this isn't intended for everyone and you can yell and scream all you want but that's how SE has decided to roll with it. It's almost impossible by design.

all the other trails were soloable up till this point.

Animated weapons and Hydras were not soloable.

Atomic_Skull

02-15-2012, 07:21 AM

double post

FrankReynolds

02-15-2012, 07:34 AM

It's funny how people have gone from "we don't want time sinks we just want a challenge with guaranteed rewards" in years past to "Oh what the hell lets stop pretending. We just want everything easy"

5 Umbral marrow is not hard unless you are one of those who abandoned your LS when abyssea came out to dual box because you thought you'd never need them again. Anyone with good standing in a decent LS isn't going to have problems getting this done. It'll take you a few events over maybe a month (weekly) to get it finished. If you dumped your LS last year well tough, you screwed yourself. I'm now laughing my ass off at everyone who told me I was dumb for sticking with an LS.

As for Stage 2, SE has said that this isn't intended for everyone and you can yell and scream all you want but that's how SE has decided to roll with it. It's almost impossible by design.

Animated weapons and Hydras were not solable.

There are thousands of people who still run with an LS......... that doesn't do dynamis as an event.

There are thousands of people who don't have an LS because the LS fragmented when abyssea was released.

There are thousands of other reasons to not have a dynamis LS.

Abandoning your LS has nothing to do with the difficulty of the trial.

Yinnyth

02-15-2012, 08:22 AM

Yes, I confirm what I said. The clones pop at exactly 30s unless you bring them to unknown amount of HP before that. You on the other hand are claiming they are not time based apparently.

No, earlier you were claiming:

The first clone appears exactly after 30 sec into (pop time -> sumonning time) the fight which implies that a minimum of 6 real DDs (aka level 90+ empy monks with soulvoice ma/ma/min&haste) should bring ADL to ~zero% before it splits leaving you with pale copies of maybe 1% HP.

6 real DDs can get him down to nearly 0% HP before he splits. Your claim not mine. The post of yours I keep quoting implies that ADL splits into clones exactly 30 seconds after he's popped regardless of how low his HP gets, and goes on to suggest that any decent group should be able to nearly kill ADL before he gets the chance to split.

Your claim NOW is that it's HP based as well as time based. Your claim THEN was it had nothing to do with HP. Thus my indignation when you claimed:

I didn't say it's always 30 sec before it clones did you read ?

Soidisant

02-15-2012, 08:25 AM

Because WAR sucks and drk is not a job, nevermind that fact that high% ODD at 300% tp strongely favors monk...

DRK is actually pretty damn good against ADL because it requires minimal effort/gear to put out decent numbers. You could roll up with Hoarfrost + SAM sub + an Icarus wing and put in 10-15k damage just simply from going Last Resort > Souleater > Sekka > Resolution > Resolution > Icarus Wing > Resolution and nothing more than that, so like 10 seconds. And that's without having access to something like Apoc/Ragna/etc. (But does assume COR + BRD buffs)

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 08:38 AM

No, earlier you were claiming:

6 real DDs can get him down to nearly 0% HP before he splits. Your claim not mine. The post of yours I keep quoting implies that ADL splits into clones exactly 30 seconds after he's popped regardless of how low his HP gets, and goes on to suggest that any decent group should be able to nearly kill ADL before he gets the chance to split.

Your claim NOW is that it's HP based as well as time based. Your claim THEN was it had nothing to do with HP. Thus my indignation when you claimed:

I claimed and still claim that it will pop at exactly 30 seconds. I'm not claiming "now" that it is HP based because I already explicitely mentionned in the original post that you wouldn't kill within 30 seconds because the first clone is obligatory. So In the post I assumed it was 5% because my own witness off JP alliances wrecking it showed that they cloned it with little HP, hard to tell how much since I don't use windower cheat mode. So replace 5% with whatever the% is if it even exists. Because so far I don't see any evidence, just assumptions, that it is % based. What's certain is that it will clone himself at the 30 seconds mark if its HP is >= 45% and that the next clones are not time based.

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 08:42 AM

DRK is actually pretty damn good against ADL because it requires minimal effort/gear to put out decent numbers. You could roll up with Hoarfrost + SAM sub + an Icarus wing and put in 10-15k damage just simply from going Last Resort > Souleater > Sekka > Resolution > Resolution > Icarus Wing > Resolution and nothing more than that, so like 10 seconds. And that's without having access to something like Apoc/Ragna/etc. (But does assume COR + BRD buffs)

You cannot use more than one WS past the first one at start because then it splits. After the split what DD you got is irrelevant what matters is that they got TP to finish them off. Based on this any DD has its place in an alliance, but that's not what I'm targetting, I want the minimal amount of persons.

Chriscoffey

02-15-2012, 08:47 AM

You cannot use more than one WS past the first one at start because then it splits. After the split what DD you got is irrelevant what matters is that they got TP to finish them off. Based on this any DD has its place in an alliance, but that's not what I'm targetting, I want the minimal amount of persons.
You are an outright idiot. I just did this fight yesterday and it didn't split after my first weapon skill and in fact split around 30%. I guess you say that melee do 15k weapon skills now which is LOL unless all the warriors are using mighty strikes w/resolution. I can see now why you are considered a moron.

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 09:34 AM

You are an outright idiot because you are not following the discussion. The reason it will split before you have tp for the second ws is that with an ally it dies too fast so if it's not your case, get better DDs. Personally when I go pimp MNKx2 and gimp MNkx2 as DD it splits when everyone has done 2 WS and is about to do the 3rd - we only go with 6 though.

I wonder where I said a melee does 15k WS lol. I did say that my melees do 16.5k total damage before split though, but that is because we don't suck.

Nynja

02-15-2012, 02:29 PM

It's fun to see how nynja is be ridiculised in the relic thread where someone is explaining him even NQ DL is duo-able.

who said its duoable? They said they did it trio spamming stun..."and it should be doable mnk + healer".

Nynja

02-15-2012, 02:31 PM

Animated weapons and Hydras were not soloable.

Thats debatable...however they are easily duoable and I dont think anyones going to oppose to that statement.

do you have a video yet pchan, or not?

Yinnyth

02-15-2012, 02:43 PM

DRK is actually pretty damn good against ADL because it requires minimal effort/gear to put out decent numbers. You could roll up with Hoarfrost + SAM sub + an Icarus wing and put in 10-15k damage just simply from going Last Resort > Souleater > Sekka > Resolution > Resolution > Icarus Wing > Resolution

You are an outright idiot because you are not following the discussion. The reason it will split before you have tp for the second ws is that with an ally it dies too fast so if it's not your case, get better DDs.

Yeah, clearly HE'S the one who isn't following the coversation. Remind me again- how long does it take to build up TP after you WS with 300 TP while sekkanoki is active?

Manicora

02-15-2012, 04:42 PM

Karbuncle

02-15-2012, 05:37 PM

you people cry too much, go back to WoW u baby.
ADL is not super hard, Just have to be GOOD at your jobs and understand how to play. Have gone 10/10 and only needed alex 1st time to see how it would go. I feel sorry for you if you do not understand how to play Better than an RMT.

Is this the part where we're suppose to ask "What was your Strategy for killing it without PD Zerging?" and you tell us "I'm not saying" or something >_>?

Alsor: No ones claiming Arch Dynamis Lord is hard, They're saying its stupid that the fight can be done perfectly and still relies on a dumb-luck factor because of how the NM works... Splitting In two, three, four, etc.

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 06:14 PM

who said its duoable? They said they did it trio spamming stun..."and it should be doable mnk + healer".
And I have said it is trioable too, stop being butthurt.

MarkovChain

02-15-2012, 06:15 PM

Yeah, clearly HE'S the one who isn't following the coversation. Remind me again- how long does it take to build up TP after you WS with 300 TP while sekkanoki is active?

Remind me of the strategy to use to avoid having three clones when fighting as an ally.

macross

02-15-2012, 11:04 PM

Brolic

02-15-2012, 11:39 PM

If you fight it for 30 sec and it then it splits, your DD are pretty gimp. 30 sec is more than enough time to kill it to 0, if it splits at exactly 30 sec. Have yet to try since the bloodrage nerf though. I still have no clue why you use monk, war is so much stronger.

Let's see some screenshots of your lvl 99 relics, since you can kill it so easily with 6 people.

Thank you,

That's the problem abyssea have given people the idea that they're better players than they actually are.

The ones that have problems beating adl are the people with nu-dyna relics and somehow doesnt have an ultima\omega\pw\odin\ atma.

MarkovChain

02-16-2012, 12:42 AM

If you fight it for 30 sec and it then it splits, your DD are pretty gimp. 30 sec is more than enough time to kill it to 0, if it splits at exactly 30 sec. Have yet to try since the bloodrage nerf though. I still have no clue why you use monk, war is so much stronger.

Let's see some screenshots of your lvl 99 relics, since you can kill it so easily with 6 people.

You have reading comprehension issues also it's funny you didn't mention I'm fighting with 6 Mr "I kill ADL with an alliance & I farm rifltdross with my LS". You are doing everything wrong.

Khiinroye

02-16-2012, 01:30 AM

So Pchan watches JP alliances kill it, and claims to have lv 99 relics already. This says to me that he bought the marrows he needs without killing ADL himself, and he won't go near it since he doesn't need it.

Hence the lack of a video of him killing it with 6 characters. No, 6 people all dualboxing and/or logging out to extra characters is still an alliance of characters.

Nynja

02-16-2012, 01:31 AM

And I have said it is trioable too, stop being butthurt.

No, you said duo, that you can duo all the ADL pop items.

Khiinroye

02-16-2012, 01:48 AM

First two videos of ADL I found: Splits at 20 seconds, splits at 2:37 seconds, both from lv 90 cap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oOVyy7eeTQ for the long no-split against pearl and homam and other terribly geared DDs. Split > almost everyone instantly dies at least.

The split occurs sometime under 60% becoming more likely as its hp goes down, and there probably a certain amount of time that has to pass before it can split again.

MarkovChain

02-16-2012, 02:57 AM

No, you said duo, that you can duo all the ADL pop items.

I said 2-3 persons can duo ONE popset in one run and I insist that it is easy.

Yinnyth

02-16-2012, 04:36 AM

If that is indeed what you said, then I must remind you that 3 persons cannot duo anything because they'd be too busy trioing. Also, you claimed regular DLord can be duo'd here:

It's fun to see how nynja is be ridiculised in the relic thread where someone is explaining him even NQ DL is duo-able.
And here's you requesting a video to prove that duoing the pop NMs is impossible:

You have yet to explain us, with a video, as to why pop NM are impossible to duo.

And while we're on the topic, here's you claiming that you'll post a video of 6 people bringing ADL to 25% before he has a chance to split: (which btw would mean you'd be facing 4 clones instead of 2)

Dude I'm going to post a video soon to prove you your gimpness when I'm done with with empy and other stuff. Just shut up. I'm going to go even farther than what I claimed. I claim that a pimp out party of 6 players will destroy ADL to less than 25% before it splits , and that a decent ally of 10+ people is necessarily putting the NM at ~5% when it splits, making it essentially a joke barring dynamis implosion.

MarkovChain

02-16-2012, 06:06 AM

If that is indeed what you said, then I must remind you that 3 persons cannot duo anything because they'd be too busy trioing. Also, you claimed regular DLord can be duo'd here:

And here's you requesting a video to prove that duoing the pop NMs is impossible:

And while we're on the topic, here's you claiming that you'll post a video of 6 people bringing ADL to 25% before he has a chance to split: (which btw would mean you'd be facing 4 clones instead of 2)
Goddammit you are butthurt pretty deep, typical. I mean what you are quoting is me explaining that you can INDEED duo all the NMs used to pop ADL except DL. Stop quoting out of context seriously it's getting tired.

I didn't say that I would bring DL to 25% before it splits I said an ideal party would, learn2read and troll less. Now for you to prove us that 25% is the limit at which DL splits into three. You and your BG butthurt team have been spreading various versions so far all supporting that that the 1st split time is % based. I mean cool why not, but where is the proof and what is the exact % ? What is the minimum % that you can bring it before it splits. Me think you totally pulled the 25% out of your ass to be honest.

Nynja

02-16-2012, 06:17 AM

hi, I'm pchan...
butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt butthurt

oh, and STILL no videos. surprise surprise

Return1

02-16-2012, 06:33 AM

We need a new meme called pchan-ing

There's a couple of rules to pchan-ing:
1) You make an outrageous claim.
2) Claim you'll provide a video.
3) You fail to back up said claim.
4) If anyone calls you out on said claim you deny it regardless of if they have proof/quotes of you making said claim. Obvious editing of claims out of prior posts and claiming they made it up works too.

For example:
"If you switch gear and blink right when ADL uses Dynamic Implosion it will miss. If you can't do it you just really suck and should learn to gear swap. I'll post a video showing you it can be done."

This should be the basic structure of a pchan-ing:
Outrageous claim. Insult. "I'll post a video".

Bonus points and internets if you eventually get around to posting a video, claiming it to be proof, even it it was literally a 1/100 fluke or freak accident.

Using my previous example, 20 pages later I'll record hundreds of attempts to catch myself blinking right as Dynamic Implosion goes off, and I evade. I then post the 10 second clip and claim it as proof.

Yinnyth

02-16-2012, 06:35 AM

What is the minimum % that you can bring it before it splits. Me think you totally pulled the 25% out of your ass to be honest.

I pulled the 25% out of the pile of ass pullings you've brought to this forum. YOU said 6 pimped out players could get ADL down to 25% before he splits. You even said you'd prove it with a video. I said you're full of crap because you've never done anything like that before, and if you have, you'd realize ADL splits into more than 2 forms if you get him that low that fast.

While we're also on the topic, you also said that ADL splits 30 seconds after being popped. Since there are videos of him splitting in less 20 seconds, and videos of him taking longer than 2 minutes to split... why did you say 30 seconds?

MarkovChain

02-16-2012, 09:26 AM

No I didn't say I would prove the 25% thing with a video. I said I would prove that ADL is killable with 6.

Secondly you are still failing to read what I said about the split, so yeah troll less. I said multiple times that for me it always splits at 30s and that I found a video on youtube of gimps attempting it where it also splits at 30s, and I even said I found other videos where it splits earlier. To this I deducted that the split condition as has 2 sub condition one being T<=30 s and the other one being a mystery so far.

There are no video of it taking 2 minutes to split, you're full of crap.

Yinnyth

02-16-2012, 09:42 AM

There are no video of it taking 2 minutes to split, you're full of crap.

First two videos of ADL I found: Splits at 20 seconds, splits at 2:37 seconds, both from lv 90 cap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oOVyy7eeTQ for the long no-split against pearl and homam and other terribly geared DDs. Split > almost everyone instantly dies at least.

The split occurs sometime under 60% becoming more likely as its hp goes down, and there probably a certain amount of time that has to pass before it can split again.

Watch that vid. It was posted earlier today. ADL is popped at about 0:28, he splits at about 2:58. By my calculations, that's more than 2 minutes, and WAY more than 30 seconds.

RocStar

02-16-2012, 09:52 AM

Michizane

02-16-2012, 12:54 PM

18x5=90

It would take 90 runs to get everyone in your group at least 5 of the items that they can use their selves. It also allows for 1 ADL a run, and farm the zone with a massive amount of players, to make money and upgrade relics.

Complaining about 5 items is sad. 3 months if you are capable and you have 18x99's. Just saying most players here have done 200, 300, even 400+ kills of various mobs inside.

Be grateful they forced a time limit on it, allowing everyone to go about the rest of their day with various other goals they have in mind. People who want to do it will, friends will help friends, and in under a month you will see 99s popping up.

Your forgetting one major thing...
Not everyone can play every day of the week at the same time. So factoring in thaat you may need reps who probably want the upgrade item as well makes it more then "18x5". Plus, some of people on the game are user, and i bet in most cases you will have more than one person quit once they get their item meaning you need to recuit even more people. And if the person who quits is the groups leader/organizer, than your group has a high chance of falling apart. And lastly, what about if we want the "Afterglow Relic"? That means we need not just five, but 255 total. Alot of people wont stay for one person to get 255 merrows on a mob that only drops one or two at a time.

With all that said, I do agree that SE shouldn't adjust the difficult of the Arch Dynamis Lord, but instead make it less luck based or make the items obtainable in another way while inceasing the ammount droped by ADL.

MarkovChain

02-16-2012, 01:26 PM

Watch that vid. It was posted earlier today. ADL is popped at about 0:28, he splits at about 2:58. By my calculations, that's more than 2 minutes, and WAY more than 30 seconds.

Ah my bad but you must admit they are killing awefully slow to be any relevant, there is probably a minimum% where it pops, this doesn't disprove the 30 sec I'm seeing on all my runs. All I care about anyway is the minimum% were I can bring it. What's certain is that you can fight it 30 sec with high killing speed (unlike them). Seeing as I'm only at 75% of my potential, I'm sure I can bring it at 25% with 6 if it is possible and not block by a force clone. I've never seen it pop before 30sec for me also I've seen it clone above 50% HP so HP% trigger is out of question. I'm hoping you can bring it much lower than 45% which is what I do, and I want to know what HP% it is. I'm still convinced 30 sec is in the equation.

Yinnyth

02-16-2012, 01:52 PM

Ah my bad but you must admit they are killing awefully slow to be any relevant, there is probably a minimum% where it pops, this doesn't disprove the 30 sec I'm seeing on all my runs. All I care about anyway is the minimum% were I can bring it. What's certain is that you can fight it 30 sec with high killing speed (unlike them). Seeing as I'm only at 75% of my potential, I'm sure I can bring it at 25% with 6 if it is possible and not block by a force clone. I've never seen it pop before 30sec for me also I've seen it clone above 50% HP so HP% trigger is out of question. I'm hoping you can bring it much lower than 45% which is what I do, and I want to know what HP% it is. I'm still convinced 30 sec is in the equation.

You realize that normal enemies in Dynamis have an HP trigger for their 2hrs, right? Their HP trigger is a different % from job to job, and even then it seems like it can vary up to 10% from enemy to enemy even if they're the same job. DRG is somewhere around 95% which is why you almost never see one who doesn't summon a wyvern. NIN is somewhere around 30% which is why you frequently kill (or proc) them before they mijin. THF and PLD are somewhere around 50%.

Once they get below a certain HP, they put 2hring into their "to do" que, but their 2hr is a lower priority than WS, ranged attack, or casting a spell. That's why sometimes, even if you're killing very slow and don't proc, it's possible to prevent a NIN's 2hr by just placing stuns at the right times. Even though Mijin Gakure is on his "to do" que, it keeps getting pushed back on the que because his ranged attack is ready again, or he's ready to WS, or he's ready to cast a spell instead.

Why is any of that important to know for a discussion about ADL? Because ADL's cloning works the same way. Once you get him below a certain %, he puts splitting onto his "to do" que. If his magic or his WS are ready, he waits to split and does a spell or WS instead. His % appears to be somewhere around 60-66%. That's when he puts it on his que. Just because there isn't an exact % that he ALWAYS splits on doesn't mean it isn't % based. If you had some way to keep spamming him with stuns that last 10 seconds each (which is mostly impossible, I know), he would never have the chance to clone because everytime stun wore off, he'd attempt a WS or spell instead.

So there you go. That's why he can sometimes clone after 20 seconds and sometimes clone after 2.5 minutes. In order to disprove my theory, you would need to get a video of him cloning while he has more than 70% HP.

Kiyara

02-16-2012, 03:02 PM

Man MarkuvChain, do you troll on ffxiah.com and on bluegartr.com too? Jesus dude, I try to find info for this stuff and you just seem to keep popping up everywhere I go. Seriously dude stop posting. It's pathetic seeing you try to weasel your way around saying this and that then changing your words around. Everyone on this forum pretty much dislikes you I'm sure of it.

Nynja

02-16-2012, 03:21 PM

No I didn't say I would prove the 25% thing with a video. I said I would prove that ADL is killable with 6.

And its been 3 weeks, and you still have yet to post this video, DERP

macross

02-16-2012, 03:33 PM

Today our's split into 3 or 4 when it was 25%. We still won though barely hehe. Last copy was it.

MarkovChain

02-16-2012, 04:50 PM

You realize that normal enemies in Dynamis have an HP trigger for their 2hrs, right? Their HP trigger is a different % from job to job, and even then it seems like it can vary up to 10% from enemy to enemy even if they're the same job. DRG is somewhere around 95% which is why you almost never see one who doesn't summon a wyvern. NIN is somewhere around 30% which is why you frequently kill (or proc) them before they mijin. THF and PLD are somewhere around 50%.

Once they get below a certain HP, they put 2hring into their "to do" que, but their 2hr is a lower priority than WS, ranged attack, or casting a spell. That's why sometimes, even if you're killing very slow and don't proc, it's possible to prevent a NIN's 2hr by just placing stuns at the right times. Even though Mijin Gakure is on his "to do" que, it keeps getting pushed back on the que because his ranged attack is ready again, or he's ready to WS, or he's ready to cast a spell instead.

Why is any of that important to know for a discussion about ADL? Because ADL's cloning works the same way. Once you get him below a certain %, he puts splitting onto his "to do" que. If his magic or his WS are ready, he waits to split and does a spell or WS instead. His % appears to be somewhere around 60-66%. That's when he puts it on his que. Just because there isn't an exact % that he ALWAYS splits on doesn't mean it isn't % based. If you had some way to keep spamming him with stuns that last 10 seconds each (which is mostly impossible, I know), he would never have the chance to clone because everytime stun wore off, he'd attempt a WS or spell instead.

So there you go. That's why he can sometimes clone after 20 seconds and sometimes clone after 2.5 minutes. In order to disprove my theory, you would need to get a video of him cloning while he has more than 70% HP.

There is nothing to backup your theory. Comparing demon's2H and his cloning is farfetched. It's not as random as you think. I bet that many groups can confirm that with a given setup and strat it is going to pop at roughly the same HP%.

Ever since I do maximise my damage by replacing the whm by a monk etc it's systematically clones at lower HP. The times I had it clone above 50% that I mentionned earlier was because I was killing to slowly, and it was still at around 60% after 30s.

@ Macross, was

Yinnyth

02-16-2012, 06:55 PM

There is nothing to backup your theory. Comparing demon's2H and his cloning is farfetched. It's not as random as you think. I bet that many groups can confirm that with a given setup and strat it is going to pop at roughly the same HP%.

No, it's not farfetched, it's the most logical conclusion to draw from the data available. Let us look at the evidence so far:
1. In some fights, it takes ADL as few as 20 seconds to split, generally while he is damaged extremely quickly.
2. In other fights, it takes ADL as long as 150 seconds to split, generally while he is damaged very slowly.
3. No one has yet to offer proof of an ADL kill in which he has not split at all.

So let's assume his behavior for splitting is based ONLY on how much time has passed since he was popped. Since there have been fights where he's split in 20 seconds, and fights where he's split in 150 seconds, we must then go on to assume that the time required for him to split is RANDOMIZED between those values. However, this would also mean that a group which deals damage to him quickly would, sooner or later, wind up with an ADL who takes 2 and a half minutes to split. This would mean they could kill him before he split. Since there is no evidence of this EVER happening, and not even any claims that it has happened as far as I can see, we can then conclude that his splitting is not determined solely by time.

So let's go further and assume that his splitting is based on 2 seperate triggers: HP and time- whichever elapses first. Since there is proof of a fight where he's taken longer than 2.5 minutes to split, and 2.5 minutes is more than enough time for any decent group to get him to his trigger HP, we can further conclude that IT DOESN'T MATTER if there's any time trigger at all.

Which leaves us with one possibility: his split is based partly, if not completely, on how low his HP is. So why does he sometimes get brought down to 30% HP before he manages to split, while other times he only gets brought down to 60%? We can answer that by looking at the behavior of other enemies who also have actions they take which are triggered by their HP%. He splits at varying HPs because his other actions take priority over his split, and the HP trigger itself might be randomized by as much as 10% either direction. Regardless, an HP trigger is the most logical conclusion to come to.

MarkovChain

02-16-2012, 08:44 PM

The only explanation ? Nope. Because for me is always 30 sec no matter what. Your theory, based on nothing - so not a theory-, will be valid when you show me a good alliance cloning it above 50% HP or if the pop time is random for a given setup which is systematically disproven in my runs. For me the 30 sec is not an approximation, it is the exact second. With my new setup if it ever pops prior to 30 sec (I should be killing 33% faster, 50% with 5 monks and 1 smn) or if I ever see a clone at something greater or lower than 30sec or If I see it pop again above 50% HP we can talk about your "theory".

Zirael

02-16-2012, 10:33 PM

[...] Your theory, based on nothing - so not a theory-, will be valid when you show me [...]
Still waiting...

Coder

02-16-2012, 10:58 PM

When ADL first came out we tried a few ways to kill it w/o perfect defense. The safest way for us to take it down to the first split was with just a PLD and a THF on ADL. Took us a lot longer than 30 seconds to get it down to where it would split.

Coder

02-16-2012, 11:02 PM

I also have a log from Monday where we popped at 23:38, and it had already summoned and the 2 ADLs are using oblivion smash at 24:01. That's quicker than 30 seconds.

Guess i could have edited that first post, oh well. +1

Zikon

02-16-2012, 11:27 PM

Coder

02-16-2012, 11:29 PM

Sup wiz still playing tricks ey

I think I know who you are talking about, and no that's not me.

Brolic

02-16-2012, 11:33 PM

I think I know who you are talking about, and no that's not me.

fibber, i remember when we(persistence) used to style on you and ambition back on midgard.

Zikon

02-16-2012, 11:38 PM

I think I know who you are talking about, and no that's not me.

Yeahhhh no,

you're wiz and c0d3er

Coder

02-17-2012, 12:20 AM

fibber, i remember when we(persistence) used to style on you and ambition back on midgard.

I don't see what any of this has to do with the topic or that thieving dick that was responsible for wizbot.

Brolic

02-17-2012, 12:48 AM

I don't see what any of this has to do with the topic or that thieving dick that was responsible for wizbot.

Nothing in this thread is relevant.

Tldr adl is weaker than dl, ultima, timmy or pw or any comparable hnm at 75. Cannot be duoed with a 90 empyrean and your now defunct cure bot mule.

make 5 friends.

Yinnyth

02-17-2012, 02:43 AM

Rezeak

02-17-2012, 07:21 AM

100% win (baring dynamic implosion and death, the last one rarely happens).

if it's 100% win why don't you have a 99 relic yet.

if it's cause you havn;t had time sorry but with all the information you've been posting you must of been fighting it alot meaning either your failing at ADL or losing over and over or lieing ofc.

best thing about all this ofc is over time you keep contraindicing ya self again and again meaning even you call your self wrong.

As a side note DDs can get 2 WS off before it splits maybe you don't know how Sekk works or something but it's takes like 2-3 secs to do 2 WS and 5 to do 3rd with dusty wing and u say it takes 30 secs to split.

Either way pchan you keep saying your right and everyone else keeps saying your wrong meaning either you know something the entire community doesn't know or your just simply wrong. I'm pretty sure i know what the most likly case.

honestly a normal person would of just kill ADL posted a video or even a screen w/ 6-10 people killing ADL getting umbral marrow but all you proved is nothing except you know very little of how the game works (in my opinion)

MarkovChain

02-25-2012, 09:43 AM

Yugl

02-25-2012, 10:32 AM

Grats on the win. Any preparations in the event you killed the clone though?

Karbuncle

02-25-2012, 10:57 AM

Here is a youtube video of a 6-man Arch Dynamis Lord kill.

Setup is MNK/WARx4, BRD (march/march/minuet/haste), SMN (perfect defense, enfire, avatar's favor)

http://youtu.be/H_T3E0FTSaA

This proves than even with dynamic implosion 6 man parties can win, not sure how an alliance can possibly fail this.

Here is a second youtube video with the same setup.

http://youtu.be/0iGqIidMsVc

I guess double drops only go to skilled players, Treasure hunter zero™. Note that anyone clever can deal with tera slash (advertised so far as insta lose while all you have to do is split melees around it as it is small conal aoe).

Now for 15 pages of QQ.

Be honest. how many times did you fail before that? Half serious.

If you hadn't went 1/1 on Guessing the right clone, You'd of lost hard-core considering most everyone was dead at the end of the first video, and second.

Kudos and thanks on the proof though. Nice work.

Kinda showed what i expected, with a bit of of luck, a good group, you can do it with 6, If you get lucky and guess 1/1 on The Right clone. If you had guessed wrong in either of those videos it would have spelled failure.

But, this is promising at least. If you guess right you can win with just 6. Really shortens the view, I imagine with 12, There'd be more room for error.

Scribble

02-25-2012, 01:06 PM

Now for 15 pages of QQ.
The only QQ I have to add is about the 100m marrows you're selling. Only QQ because I'm laughing so hard people would buy for that much. Anyhow, grats on your luck with clone.

MarkovChain

02-25-2012, 04:55 PM

The is no luck involved it just skillz from our part and using the right jobs. As can be seen in the first video dynamic implosion lasts for 30 sec and we still win (also 13 sec with no damage due to the first split). 30sec is more than enough to kill the second copy when your DDs don't suck (monks). Anyone that does ADL regularely know it's the only bad move. Seing as this move rarely even happens (I would say ~20% of the time) the only way it can hurt you is if the first clone is the wrong one. Basically 20% of the time you only have 50% chance of win. For the other 80% only a double tera slash or bad luck on the first two copies can make you lose. Overall this setup allows for roughly 75% win rate.

Seing as it only takes 2 runs to farm 6 pops, and a third one to pop them all (assuming not to too unlucky on your COR mules), you are getting about 4-5 marrows in 3 days. I can understand that the guys that consider killing the pop NMs a challenge can't possibly reach this though, but it's BG, and BG is full of noobs. We have had a nice sample size of them in this thread and the "99 Trial" one.

Monchat

02-25-2012, 06:48 PM

Grats on the win. Any preparations in the event you killed the clone though?

actually unlike what pchan says, its 75% chance of win if you chose the rigth clone. My pt of 6 could kill 2 clones, with luck, but overall its about 50% chance at winning ( you win if you chose the right clone). It donest matter really. In the end it is 50% chance at getting the marrow. SInce the pt is made of mules . When going in an allaince even if you win 100% (whcich you should), you'r looking at 1/18 chances @ the marrow. The ADL pops are easy to farm and we can pop 3 per run with cor mules ( an allaince should pop 6+ per run). We can farm 9 pops in 3 runs I believe,

MarkovChain

02-25-2012, 07:10 PM

It's more than 50% since you can kill the second one when it doesn't do dynamic implosion. I will prove it soon.

Karbuncle

02-25-2012, 07:58 PM

The is no luck involved it

No.

Almost everyone was dead by the time you managed to kill the 1 clone. If you needed to kill a second clone, You'd of lost. Period.

Your group was clearly consisting of good, well geared players, Who knew what they were doing. But You still got lucky. Even in the video where it didn't terror you for ~20 seconds, You were almost all dead still by the end. It took a good bit of skill to kill ADL with 6, But it also took a lot of luck. So it was a 50/50 Division between Luck and Gear.

(I'm going to stop using skill now, Nothing is skillfull about auto-attacking and hitting a WS Macro every few seconds, This isn't your fault, Its just how FFXI is in general)

My Signature is eerily true.

MarkovChain

02-25-2012, 08:13 PM

I have explained you that the first video is done with dynamis implosion which is 30sec duration stun, and that it is the only bad move. The only thing that can kill kill you before PD wears off is Tera slash with death procing (it is not even 100% proc). Assuming you don't get dynamic implosion you have 100% chance to kill the first clone and a decent chance to kill the second one (assuming no tera slash with death procing or at most procing on on mnk). As proven in the second video :

0:16 perfect defense
1:20 mob is <5% and tera slash kill one MNK plus the useless BRD

This means that you have 25 sec for the next copy. Considering that the first split occured at 65% in that video, when usually it occurs at 45% (as in the first video), you will usually kill two copies of ADL making the win rate essentially 75%, and I will prove it soon. Also I have a strat for killing 3 copies but that's more risky as you would ask the SMN to PD a few seconds after the pop and maybe ask the BRD to log on his MNK after songs. So if you really want the job done you will kill it nearly almost always.

Alkimi

02-25-2012, 08:30 PM

Before everyone thinks "AMG Monk Only" most DDs tear him apart, he's level 90 content after all.

We go with 16-18 including SMNs and support, 6 DDs usually WAR SAM MNK or DRK and almost always win bar getting screwed over with back to back implosion and usually well before PD wears off.

Urteil

02-25-2012, 10:05 PM

Our LS can consistently full kill Arch Dynamis Lord, what I mean is: We can kill the clone, and if that fails we can kill the real one reliably.

I understand not everyone has an alliance going in, we don't always have 18 people. This has been done with the 'Mage' party and one 'DD' party.

This is just to help, the more people that get 99 weapons, the stronger people that will exist to be able to kill me.

Here are some things to consider and do if you attempt:

DD parties (2):

DD
DD
DD
DD
DD
SMN

Mage Party:

RDM
RDM
BRD
WHM
SCH
COR

I know not everyone will have 18 people but try to shoot for this paradigm, the essential jobs are:

SMN x2
RDM x2
BRD
SCH
COR (Try to get more than one for resets, try to bring naked reset mules, whatever.)

Leave the summoners out of the melee parties you will have two parties with 5 DDs.
The Scholar will perpetuance Embrava all three parties, starting with DD party 1, ending in the mage party. (This lasts 10 minutes and should be done first.)

Send the Corsair in buff the DD's, move the corsair to the second melee party, and finally to their final resting point in the mage party or outside the Alliance.

The Bard will use soul voice and double minuet both melee parties. (Embrava + Hastega from the summoners will give you capped magical haste.)

Move both summoners with Garuda out into the DD parties and Hastega them, then use Astral Flow (which lasts three minutes.)

The tank (who had the pages loaded already pops.)

NOW, summon Alexander because the fight is treated as a bcnm and despawns your "pet". Which means if you had him out, he just got wasted.

So engage ADL with a main assisst and burn him down, when he splits have a single DD keep hate while the others burn one down.

One Red Mage will Chainspell from the beginning and continue chainspelling the shadow lord that is being burned down by the majority of the DD's.

When ADL splits the other RDM chainspells the new ADL while the DD's finish off the main and switch to him.

Tips:

Do not fight both at the same time as dual TP feed can lead to an AoE Terror that can really mess up the strategy. The terror is what kills people/wastes PD.

Please expand upon this and use this information to complete your weapons! I hope this helps.

Alkimi

02-25-2012, 10:26 PM

Should kill pretty consistently with that, 10 DDs is overkill but if you have the numbers for it then may aswell play it safe(r).

We do the same aswell, use PD right after popping. He's never casted any spells or used any TP moves right off the bat so you can get PD on in plenty of time.

MarkovChain

02-25-2012, 11:05 PM

The startegy consisting of killing one after theother as an alliance is wrong you should take down both at the same time as they repop at the maximum of the HP of those up.

Alkimi

02-25-2012, 11:19 PM

Problem is that when either clone uses a TP move the other one will aswell, meaning essentially double the TP moves and double the chance of getting terrored/death slashed.

Essentially if you have the numbers you should be able to take out 2 clones and win before PD wears. If you're lowmanning it like the video then you're riding your luck a lot more, if you pick the wrong one first time chances are you're going to wipe.

macross

02-25-2012, 11:26 PM

No, if it splits again it will pop 4 copies, which immediately will terra slash from what i've seen.
If you have enough fire power it will take 10 sec to get him to split then another 10 sec to kill the first copy you pick, if that's not it move on etc. I don't see you fighting both copies at the same time in your videos either.

Plus you got lucky that you picked the right copy. If it was wrong one you would have lost. I don't go into the fight expecting to win by luck.

Why not post the videos of you losing, I'm sure it happens quite often.

Ps you should use warriors, they are much stronger. Or at least 1 war for blood rage.

We've gotten dbl drops 3x now, 21 marrows so far. Heck 3 kills today, 5 marrows. Point is we don't fight it expecting to lose, but bad luck dbl terror can always happen or a 52 then 47 split.

Vold

02-26-2012, 12:03 AM

The only QQ I have to add is about the 100m marrows you're selling. Only QQ because I'm laughing so hard people would buy for that much. Anyhow, grats on your luck with clone.Nobody is paying 100 mil on Q for that stuff. No one paid 75 mil nor has anyone paid 55 mil as far as I know as the one UB(Ultimate Bitch as I call it fyi, otherwise known as umbral marrow, though it seems alittle less of a pain now..) I've seen in bazaars is quickly being cut day by day. I haven't looked at it in 2 or 3 days but last I saw it was 55 million which stood for at least 1 day of bazaaring.

As far as this topic goes I've kept my mouth shut lately to see how it'll play out. I have a few observations:

1)bringing less bodies than 18 to ADL is a good thing for several reasons.

2)with a few dedicated players surrounding you, you can 6 man ADL by whatever means that are necessary which I did figure was possible but goodluck having such a group. It's few and far between so don't be expecting to 6 man ADL yourself any time soon unless you fit the bill and make a serious effort to create or join such a group.

3)Chan you proved your point with the 6 man win but don't push it. Take the victory and walk away. Don't go starting about how there's no luck involved and so on. You won but it won't always be so. The system doesn't allow it. And you weren't exactly pushing through it like champs til ADL dropped in either video so gloating is only going to take you so far. I can understand why you'd want to do it because of this ongoing war between you and BG members but let's face it, there's not THAT much to gloat about. The video speaks for itself. You can farm 99 relics or sell off UBs with relative ease whether it's wins or losses. You don't need 18 which is the conceived "hard" part after all, needing to share/lot the UB drops that others will want, too.

Take it for what it is, let the video speak for itself which is a 6 man ADL win period, and call it a day before you ruin it.

MarkovChain

02-26-2012, 12:23 AM

Plus you got lucky that you picked the right copy. If it was wrong one you would have lost. I don't go into the fight expecting to win by luck.
.

No I would not have lost. I'm better than you that's about it. And war is shit. Prove me wrong by 6 manning it with 4 wars.

bitterness and blabla about luck

I've already explained that my win rate will be 75%. Luck doesn't exist, either you can or you can't. I've already explained what causes failure and what causes failure. I can write a page of maths explain you how much % win rate I'm going to have. It's not luck it's averaging a certain amount of marrows per runs. Go ahead if you want to play with 18 I don't care, my relic will be obtained probably before tueasday which is 2 weeks only after VU. Want to take bets ?

Karbuncle

02-26-2012, 01:15 AM

No I would not have lost. I'm better than you that's about it.

Lol, I can't decide if you say this crap for lulz or as a joke, or are so far lost in your own delusional world that you actually believe it now.

Alkimi

02-26-2012, 01:19 AM

No I would not have lost.

Huh? All sources of healing were dead, the 3 remaining DDs were in orange HP or almost dead and PD had worn off.

Khiinroye

02-26-2012, 01:38 AM

You do realize that with your kill speed, it can split again after you pick wrong? This means you lose another 15 seconds of damage to hitting for 0 and having to renegage. You lose most of your remaining PD, and get to take 2-3 instant WS with a weakened PD/ no PD (wipe), and then have another 50% / 33% / 25% chance of getting the right clone.

An alliance of 12 +cor and smn mules allows you to farm 3 pops and kill 3 per run (even if you don't get a 2hr reset), while still being able to deal with stuff like picking wrong with a terror. I think our worst luck was split > wrong clone > terror > split into 3 > wrong clone > terror > wrong clone > win. I guarantee that, as the game stands now, you won't win something like that with only 6, and even with an alliance, its almost always a wipe.

Monchat

02-26-2012, 02:37 AM

Huh? All sources of healing were dead, the 3 remaining DDs were in orange HP or almost dead and PD had worn off.

each monk has Reraise on, a reraise scroll, an icarus wing. 1 WS=3~4% of its HP. The bard DiaII ADL a few second before dying for a purpose. Makes it possible to zombie the few % HP if it is the rigth clone you still win.

Now the point of pchan is not that everyone should farm his marrows with 6, obviously. It's that peopel goign with 18 and only poping one are doign it very wrong. If I were to go with an allaince i'd take:

PT1: MNKx5(vereth) SMN
PT2: MNKx5(vereth) SMn
PT3: SMNx5 BRD

The reason for mnks is: other DDs cannot beat 300TP aftermath + impetus 's boost during the 1:30 of PD. Secondly, a +3 instrumentis enough to cap haste w/o soulvoice (langeleik or Ghorn). If your bard only has +2, you'r not to far from caping, and anywayyou got 10 DD.. lol. If 4 monk can kill 1 copy and sometimes 2, 10 mnks will kill 3-4 NP.

With this set up you can pop seven ADL in one run ( well 3 or 4 if you PD both DD pts, which is certainly not required), since the *only* required 2H is Perfect Defense. And do not bother bringing CORs. Their 2H is a 66% chance at being useless.

MarkovChain

02-26-2012, 02:44 AM

Huh? All sources of healing were dead, the 3 remaining DDs were in orange HP or almost dead and PD had worn off.

Funny. After all you are the one bringing a dedicated mage party for a perfect defense zerg (2 RDM GUYZ). Orange HP doesn't mean jack shit when perfect defense is up which is the case whenever there is no dynamic implosion going on ; aka the second video clearly shows the amount of time left. Also we need to hear nynja's theory.

MarkovChain

02-26-2012, 02:50 AM

You do realize that with your kill speed, it can split again after you pick wrong? This means you lose another 15 seconds of damage to hitting for 0 and having to renegage. You lose most of your remaining PD, and get to take 2-3 instant WS with a weakened PD/ no PD (wipe), and then have another 50% / 33% / 25% chance of getting the right clone..

So what no setup is 100% win what's your point ? An alliance of 18 that is getting 3 splits cannot afford a single dynamic implosion because that would be 30se + 15s x3. Also I'm almost certain the next clones don't take as long to pop and take damage while being poped ( I had this occuring once but it could have been the lag in the log).

And you have no idea what you are talking about about the second split. On a typical run ADL clones are going to have 45% HP so it's going to go down in ~25sec. Seeing as I can survive about 10sec w/o PD and each monk as a free 6k damage (let's say 2 icarus wings, one instant reraise) in case of loss, even if you wipe before killing the second form you could do 30k damage while zombying it in theory and 30k damage is about 30% HPs..

Urteil

02-26-2012, 03:29 AM

The startegy consisting of killing one after theother as an alliance is wrong you should take down both at the same time as they repop at the maximum of the HP of those up.

You've been very lucky, Terror in quick succession renders everything moot.

MarkovChain

02-26-2012, 03:59 AM

Also I'm confirming that I have experienced a strange behaviour on a run where it split twice. On the second split during the summonning animation it is clearly taking HP in the log and its HP bar is also decreasing, then it splits and the one I am autotargetting takes zero damage for a few rounds. I've got the vid and it doesn't seems to be lag. I bet it's a hint so that players can kill ADL in two rounds.

Actually after watching again, the ADL that is not engaged is the one summonning so I guess it's normal that the other one is taking damage.

macross

02-26-2012, 09:52 AM

First of all, you can't use 2 icarus wings.
Second of all, how are you getting free 6k damage, after reraising. ADL depops very fast. You do not average 6k victory smites on ADL. Also 30k dmg, with 4 monks avging 6k dmg? That's 24k.
Impetus pfft, you can't beat wars ws rate. Even a sam spaming shoha would probably do better. I believe we use 4 wars 1 sam 1 thief, and ADL dies in like 20 seconds if we pick the right copy like you do in your videos. You said ADL splits in 30 sec alwasy before right?

Dead reraising monk also means no impetus, no buffs. Your VS won't do shit to it. I guess it's time for you to make a video of you wiping then reraising and killing ADL. Look at your wins, you are near death every time on the verge of wiping.

How many attempts do you try per day? How many runs have you done to get the amount of marrows you have now? So just how many umbral do you avg every day/run? 1x PD and SV, unless you got an army of smn and brd bots ready to go.

2nd video shows time, but if that 2nd one splits you are dead, unless you get lucky and pick the right one yet again.

We only go twice a week, but we've gotten 21 umbrals so far. I think what we are doing is better. We've only lost twice too, that's better than 75%, and that's only when we have no 2hours avail cept pd, due to terror.

Monchat

02-26-2012, 11:12 AM

Dead reraising monk also means no impetus, no buffs. Your VS won't do shit to it. I guess it's time for you to make a video of you wiping then reraising and killing ADL. Look at your wins, you are near death every time on the verge of wiping.

On the verge of wiping? so is ADL. you get one or 2 MNK dying but there is still 2 up and ADL is very low on HP each time (<5%). You are true on the part were Victory smite weakened (no buffs) is realtively weak. it does 1~1.5k dmg still though, which will take the few %s of its HP left if done by each monk one after the other. Like i said, it doesnt matter if the second clone can or cannot be killed by 6. We kill the first clone 100%. that is 50% chance at winning. Pchan upgrades his spharai on the next win since he is 4/5 ( 4 ADL, 3 Win, 4 Marrow).

And we plan on farming pop sets for 3 days and pop them the 4th. In 3 runs we can farm at least farm 4 full sets ( we aim at farming 6), and pop them on the 4th run, but atm we cannot due to not having enough SMN mules.

MarkovChain

02-26-2012, 11:16 AM

Apelila

02-26-2012, 12:21 PM

How did your SMN reset its 2 hour, or are these done on different (RL) days? Vidya 1 was done late darksday and Vidya 2 was done early Firesday.

Alkimi

02-26-2012, 06:59 PM

Funny. After all you are the one bringing a dedicated mage party for a perfect defense zerg (2 RDM GUYZ). Orange HP doesn't mean jack shit when perfect defense is up which is the case whenever there is no dynamic implosion going on ; aka the second video clearly shows the amount of time left. Also we need to hear nynja's theory.

Not once did I mention RDM.

macross

02-26-2012, 09:12 PM

In 3 runs I'm confident in being able to farm and pop 6 adl every 3 runs, with 50%-75% win rate. This week was special as we only reached the setup we were aiming. We poped 2x yesterday and got 3 drops, 2 wins, and pop 2x today and got 1 drop 1 win. 3/4 so far. My strat is by far the best, unless you and your ally pop systematycally like 18 ADL or something. Even with only a 50% win rate I'm winning. Noone gives a shit about what ADL "can" do "If" you didn't pick the right one "If" it tripple split "IF" dynamic implosion happen "IF" tera slash happens. It would only matter if popset were hard to farm. Unlike what what you and the BG crowd try to imply, my win aboslutely don't rely on luck beside the "hope you pick the right clone". It seems hard to lose this way, today it basically had to triple clone at 1% with two back to back dynamic implosion. Any ally would have wiped, since that would be one full minute stun, plus 15sec x2 smning animation, so nothing was lost. Todays's run yields this

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z315/pchann/ADL100c.jpg

a 100c !

It took 1 minute to kill total. I bet 4 or 5 man ADL is possible.

Turns out ADL is low man content, I find this pretty exciting and I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from this. This totally reminds me of salvage start (day 1: 18 man, day 2 : everyone levels mnk, day 3 d/c trick and duo qiqirns).

Also I'm going to have empy and relic @ 99 in ~3 days, what about your LS?

My LS has 4 99 relics, 3 99 mythic one more in ~2-3 days, 2 99 empys. One person has 99 empy mythic and relic, I guess you lose? I would have 99 relic and empy last week, cept I got screwed over on dkp.

Never said it was hard, we are 100% win if all 2h are up. 50-75% win is luck based, luck if you pick the right one or not, luck if it does aoe terror or not. Takes you 1 min 20 seconds to kill adl + 1 clone in your video. With 5 people dpsing like you do we kill it in 20-25 seconds if we pick the right clone. In 4 runs we can get 12-16 umbrals, vs the 6 you may get. The more you bring the safer and easier it is. Only drawback is we need to outfit more people.

Anyhow since it's so easy to kill with 6, who is gonna pay 100m gil for an umbral lol.

MarkovChain

02-26-2012, 10:10 PM

Who ? members of linkshells like yours that get screwed and have no hope to see their relic until months.

MarkovChain

02-26-2012, 10:11 PM

How did your SMN reset its 2 hour, or are these done on different (RL) days? Vidya 1 was done late darksday and Vidya 2 was done early Firesday.

It has been explained.

wish12oz

02-27-2012, 01:08 AM

MarkovChain

02-27-2012, 01:55 AM

You post stinks butthurt also no I never said w/o 2H. I told you the thread would end with "pchan is right". Where is nynja ? leveling mnk?

Monchat

02-27-2012, 05:03 AM

So basically, after all pchans bragging, he spent 3 weeks to get 2 kills, it's entirely luck based whether or not he can win, pick a clone or get one of 3 or 4 different TP moves going off and he will lose, he still hasn't managed to duo a popset, he can't kill ADL most of the time, and he can't do it without 2 hours as he claimed he could. Looks like you lose gchan.

EDIT:
Your original arguments were 6 people could do it without 2 hours, you require 6 people and lots of mules and lots of 2 hours, and your win rate isn't going to be above 50% unless a way to determine which is the clone and which is the real ADL can be found.

You butt hurt bro. Now I see you qq a lot recently. Pchan's point was to show that dynamis lord trials are not something to qq about. Now go find 5 other firends and farm your 99 relic. The 2 videos clearly show that even if ADL uses supposedly "auto fail" abilities ( dynamis implosion and tera slash), you can win. Those 2 videos show that if you chose the right clone (50%), you win, no matter what abi he uses. I don't know why you thought he could win ADL most of the time? I mean even an alliance is totally not 100% win rate. wether you are 6 or 18, a double dynamis implosion is auto fail because it wastes perfect defence. You need luck to win this fight, wether you are 18 or 6.

Since you ask why it took pchan 3 weeks to give you this video, well. First we're not at your service and feeding OF trolls from BG is not my priority. Secondly it took us 1 week to examine the feasibility of ADL with our set up at the time. We farmed 6 pops, tried various set ups. ended un putting it a <5% with 2 pink monks and 2 pimp. Thats when we concluded ADL is doable with 4 vereth(90)/tantra+2 monks and we started to work on it. Full pink > full tantra+2 took one week, and one more week to ungimp the weapons (fire taipan 90 > vereth90).

The SMN/COR mule thing is just to show that 12 people can pop 6 ADL every 4 days. ( mnkx4 brd SMNx7). The prupose of pchan's video is to show that alliances definately can pop many ADL per run. So the people claiming "this trial is stupid because I need 17 other people to work for me" are wrong: you can low man this trial very fast. 6 ADL every four days with 50% win rate is 0.75 marrow /day or 1 relic 99 every ~4 days on average, say one relic per week. If you have 6 people it is still 50% chance at marrow every 2 days ( 1 run to farm an ADL pop, one run to pop it, basically).

Monchat

02-27-2012, 05:07 AM

My LS has 4 99 relics, 3 99 mythic one more in ~2-3 days, 2 99 empys. One person has 99 empy mythic and relic, I guess you lose? I would have 99 relic and empy last week, cept I got screwed over on dkp.

Never said it was hard, we are 100% win if all 2h are up. 50-75% win is luck based, luck if you pick the right one or not, luck if it does aoe terror or not. Takes you 1 min 20 seconds to kill adl + 1 clone in your video. With 5 people dpsing like you do we kill it in 20-25 seconds if we pick the right clone. In 4 runs we can get 12-16 umbrals, vs the 6 you may get. The more you bring the safer and easier it is. Only drawback is we need to outfit more people.

Anyhow since it's so easy to kill with 6, who is gonna pay 100m gil for an umbral lol.

this thread is not an e-penis contest. its cool if your LS can get 12 umbral marrows in 4 runs, it means you got it, your LS knows how to do these trials. Unlike the other QQers in this thread (nynja, carbuncle & their BG disciples). The relic 99 trials are not worse than the mythic 99, it can be done with 6 ( 1 marrow every 2 days). There are other things to complain about the game right now, like, the empyrian 95 and 99 trials which are compeltly stupid and uninteresting/unchallenging, voidwatch of fail and nyzlul II.

wish12oz

02-27-2012, 01:06 PM

It sounds to me like the both of you are the ones who are butthurt, butthurt at me pointing out your shortcomings and that you have nothing to brag about.

Also, the only reason you don't post on BG is because you got temp banned for 2 years, quit trying to act like you chose to stop posting there.

Apelila

02-27-2012, 01:36 PM

It has been explained.

oh well good for linking said explanation, instead of forcing me to reread through all of your self important posts. Bravo on that. I commend you on your excellence in taking the time to quote yourself. You deserve a gold star for all the effort you put in referencing information.

Edit: I reread everything you've posted from the video's to your reply to myself. You have not explained how your summoner reset its 2 hour, or if the videos were made on 2 separate runs. If they are made on 2 separate runs, which video is from the run where you did 2 ADL?

MarkovChain

02-28-2012, 01:09 AM

Want me to make a video to show how it is done ? Each char has either a SMN75 or a COR65 on mules this allows for a minimum of 3 pops and a maximum of 11 pops in one run.

MarkovChain

02-28-2012, 07:51 PM

We have 6 pops ready for tonight. Also Thursday we will be poping another 6.

MarkovChain

02-29-2012, 03:25 AM

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z315/pchann/spharai99.jpg
Took about one week to get including all the pop farming.

macross

02-29-2012, 07:27 PM

Nice gil you got there.

SNK

03-02-2012, 12:24 AM

No I would not have lost. I'm better than you that's about it. And war is shit. Prove me wrong by 6 manning it with 4 wars.

........lol

Natenn

03-02-2012, 02:57 AM

Any reply i can think of to this would probably get me into trouble, ADL is luck based if your doing it the zerg way. Anyone who claims otherwise is a liar or EXTREMLY lucky. And lol @ trying to bash WAR, why SE lets people spout nonsense here is a mystery.

MarkovChain

03-02-2012, 03:48 AM

Mr BG butthurt and Mr 99 PKD have spoken. How come I already have 2 relics, Idk, this is the mystery of luck, or at least what the gimp claim when watching me talk about it.

SNK

03-02-2012, 05:24 AM

It doesn't matter what you say you still got lucky. That video was a clusterfuck of a fight. btw your ban is up next month and as far as Nynja goes not posting he got a temp ban so even then I doubt he'll care to feed your already inflated ego as it is.

MarkovChain

03-02-2012, 06:02 AM

This video is my skill and nynja/you is BG.

Natenn

03-02-2012, 11:10 PM

This video is my skill and nynja/you is BG.

I'm pretty sure the only person who believes you is you. 1 job at 99 and its MNK, the easiest job to play in the game, how can you boast about skill on a job with 2200ish HP that only has to hit attack and switch between 3 or 4 gearsets? Anyone with common knowledge of this game could throw togther a well geared to near perfect MNK in 1-2 weeks maby less.

SNK

03-03-2012, 01:14 AM

This video is my skill and nynja/you is BG.

Must be lonely on that island..

hiko

03-03-2012, 02:00 AM

This video is my skill and nynja/you is BG.
this video is "anybody with 4vereth,ghorndabla,PD can kill ADL with little luck"
its also "im too stupid to be able to get more than one friend that we need 6account to do anything"

MarkovChain

03-03-2012, 03:57 AM

1 job at 99 and its MNK

Inbefore Mr 20 jobs level 99, sorry for only having jobs that don't suck.

edit : bingo. Mr "The only thing I can do in game is level jobs"

Natenn

03-03-2012, 04:29 AM

Inbefore Mr 20 jobs level 99, sorry for only having jobs that don't suck.

edit : bingo. Mr "The only thing I can do in game is level jobs"

you said "jobs" but you only have 1 job. No one said MNK sucks, all i said it was is easy to play, easy to gear, easy easy easy. There is minimal skill involved to be a MNK, bragging about it like you're the only person to be good at it is laughable. It takes leagues more skill and proper gear to be a good WAR then compared to MNK. MNK is not a skill job, a trained monkey could be a MNK.

MarkovChain

03-03-2012, 04:52 AM

Ok, we don't care ^^

Back to the topic : I've noticed that whenever it does violent rupture pre cast (the move that knocks you back) it will summon the first clones (and then do a sync vilolent rupture) so I wonder if anyone else noticed it? I'm not saying it is the condition but what I think is that a condition for it to pop prior to 50% being reached is him doing violent rupture.

Apelila

03-04-2012, 06:17 PM

I like how you're giving people crap for having multiple jobs leveled but see no issue in that your solution is to have multiple accounts with multiple jobs leveled.

Kettle to pot, Come in pot. Over.

MarkovChain

03-04-2012, 06:37 PM

Why is my solution to have people with mutliple accounts, I don't get it.

Natenn

03-05-2012, 02:29 AM

cause you probably spammed ADL more then anyone and had way more chances to fight it so of course you would of killed it a few times, but you brag like its cake when its not.

MarkovChain

03-05-2012, 03:39 AM

wish12oz

03-05-2012, 06:32 AM

I don't undertsand anything ; you claim two post earlier that I showed a strategy based on owning multiple accounts, which is wrong, but as an answer you explain us that I should not be allowed to brag because my 6-man strategy is actually working ?

You use more then 6 characters when you fight ADL. You have extra SMNs around for PD and extra CORs around to try and reset 2 hours. Therefore, it's not a 6 man strategy, and relies heavily on having extra accounts. Unless you only want to kill ADL every other day, since as said before, your win rate is not going to be above 50% unless a way to determine which is the real ADL after it splits can be found. Watching your videos is evidence enough of this, as by the time you kill one of the two ADLs after the split your party is about wiped and your PD is almost over. You have about a 1% chance of killing that other ADL before being completely wiped.

As I said before, everyone knew it possible to win like this before you said anything. But who wants to go into this with a 50% win rate and doing 1 a day with 5 other people? Well, I mean you could level a bunch of mule accounts to help you and all, but why bother? It's going to take your group just as long to make 6 level 99 relics as a group of 12 would take to make 12. So why go for the short end of the stick? I'd rather go with 12 people and finish in the same length of time and not look like a fool wiping all the time and paying all that extra money to have extra accounts. Plus I wouldn't have to level them, do toa missions, etc, etc, etc.....

MarkovChain

03-05-2012, 07:18 AM

Nope noone thought it was possible before I showed it that's why you QQ so much. Where is nynja ? Hiding ? Leveling BST ? Also no my strategy doesn't rely in any way shape or form on extra account. Seeing that 99% of the players have mules used for storage, having level 75 SMN or level 65 COR on other char is not exactly asking to pay extra money for this strat. With abyssea fast EXP, and the delivery update, getting mules with decent gear and job is fairly easy. Killing one ADL doesn't rely on anything but 6 chars, killing 3 per run relies on having 2 smn level 75 on mules .. oh noes. Hey guys this is BG qqing how leveling to 75 is too hard.

Also just so you know no alliance is going to have a 100% winrate. Dynamic implosion is nearly insta fail. I'm betting that all allies going after it basically have less than 75% win rate. Everything else is braging on forums. The very reason all of them came here like crybabies when I did the video saying I was "lucky" (supposedely) is because they have pathetic killrates themselves with alliances. Pair this their inability to farm pop quickly and you get the QQ. I'm happy with my "50% coin tossing on the first clone" personally ; It takes one run to farm 3 pops one run to kill 3.

Apelila

03-05-2012, 03:37 PM

Nope noone thought it was possible before I showed it that's why you QQ so much. Where is nynja ? Hiding ? Leveling BST ?

Nynja is no longer with us. He's in a better place.

Also no my strategy doesn't rely in any way shape or form on extra account. Seeing that 99% of the players have mules used for storage, having level 75 SMN or level 65 COR on other char is not exactly asking to pay extra money for this strat. With abyssea fast EXP, and the delivery update, getting mules with decent gear and job is fairly easy. Killing one ADL doesn't rely on anything but 6 chars, killing 3 per run relies on having 2 smn level 75 on mules .. oh noes.

Emphasis mine. How exactly are the secondary characters getting into Dynamis, getting the time extensions, unless they are on a separate account?

Hey guys this is BG qqing how leveling to 75 is too hard.

2 Level 75 SMN mules with Alexander access, from scratch, will take 4 weeks minimum due to the weekly resets in TAU. And that's if you just walk right into Al Zhabi and spam quests. I'm not saying it's hard, I'm saying you're a moron for saying its easy.

Kimble

03-05-2012, 03:46 PM

Someone has a very unhealthily obsession. You should get that looked into to.

Scribble

03-05-2012, 03:50 PM

Also no my strategy doesn't rely in any way shape or form on extra account. Seeing that 99% of the players have mules used for storage, having level 75 SMN or level 65 COR on other char is not exactly asking to pay extra money for this strat.

I don't care what anyone says; leveling an alternate character should not ever be a viable strategy for defeating a boss encounter in any game, especially a game that allows you to level all jobs anyway. That's fucking stupid. If I ever found out that SE had that in mind when developing this fight I'd get a passport, fly to Japan and shove a crystal down someone's throat.

I shouldn't have to spend all that time getting access for alts. I should not and I will not. Fix this shit please SE.

Monchat

03-05-2012, 07:04 PM

Emphasis mine. How exactly are the secondary characters getting into Dynamis, getting the time extensions, unless they are on a separate account?
They dont need the TE. bring there @ADL and use wildcard.

I shouldn't have to spend all that time getting access for alts.

Its not needed, it's an alternative. You still have the choice to go with *only* 12 and pop 6 ADL every 3 days, or with 18 and pop 12 with 50% chance or 6 with 100% chance (wether you PD all your DDs or half of them). You also have the choice to gather 3 friends with *alts* and pop one every 2 days, with 50% luck.

On another note, I already gave up on farming umbral for money. I had one in bazar the whole week for 50Millions, then I realized other people were already busy undercuttin each other, selling as low as 30M. It takes 4 runs to farm one umbral on average (counting the 50% chance at win and COR's fail 2Hr) , thats already 20Millions gil loss (*) from not doing currency farming. Add to that it will take at least 1 week to sell thus leading to massive undercutting if other people do the same. I refuse to sell for less than 50mil lol, but there are alliances of 18 out there that think 30millions divided bu 18 is good money.

Edit: (*) 20Mil loss is a lower bound actually. If 6 BST do dynamis for 4 days straight, they get at least 250x6x4=6000coins=40+millions, ignoring forgotten items. If you play with alts like me, Idont have time to do 6 runs every day I only do 2 and that's 4x5=2000 coins + the forgotten items= 20Mil+.

hiko

03-05-2012, 07:09 PM

Emphasis mine. How exactly are the secondary characters getting into Dynamis, getting the time extensions, unless they are on a separate account?

logout mules @ trial marking
- enter with mains chars, kill ADL
- -logout "main"SMN, login SMN mule, enter run to pop PD (doesnt take 1h)
or
- -logout a job that dont need 2h reset, login cor mule, run to pop hope 2h reset

Dart

03-05-2012, 10:29 PM

I don't care what anyone says; leveling an alternate character should not ever be a viable strategy for defeating a boss encounter in any game, especially a game that allows you to level all jobs anyway. That's fucking stupid. If I ever found out that SE had that in mind when developing this fight I'd get a passport, fly to Japan and shove a crystal down someone's throat.

I shouldn't have to spend all that time getting access for alts. I should not and I will not. Fix this shit please SE.

obviously you're just mad because you're not playing the best job in the game, mnk. Mnk doesn't need healing, its the chuck norris of the ffxi world~~~~~~~

MarkovChain

03-05-2012, 10:42 PM

I don't care what anyone says; leveling an alternate character should not ever be a viable strategy for defeating a boss encounter in any game, especially a game that allows you to level all jobs anyway.

Especially a game that allows you to level multiple characters ? I don't get it. Mules are there to be what they are : other characters. It's your choice for not using the extra 1$ you pay per month. Beside all serious allies doing ADl do it lol, otherwise poping 2 ADL only per run as an ally is pretty stupid.

MarkovChain

03-05-2012, 10:48 PM

2 Level 75 SMN mules with Alexander access, from scratch, will take 4 weeks minimum due to the weekly resets in TAU. And that's if you just walk right into Al Zhabi and spam quests. I'm not saying it's hard, I'm saying you're a moron for saying its easy.

There are no weekly reset in ToAU missions. Getting Alexader is a matter of as many days as there are JP midnight wait time. But we got your point, it's hard because you cannot have it right now and have to work 7 days for it. hahaha. lol at the 4 weeks...

Apelila

03-05-2012, 11:53 PM

Sigh. My bad, it is a JP midnight and not a conquest reset as I remembered.

You are still silly for suggesting that leveling a job to 30, getting access to TAU, completing all missions up to rank 6, unlocking and re leveling the support jobs, completing TAU with a friend since you can't possibly duo it yourself on a job that you're just leveling, and getting the summon for the secondary character will take a week.

It might take a week if you do absolutely nothing else. Speaking from experience as I've starting leveling a mule to leave in sky for a Bazaar, you're delusional. Or you did nothing but play that character for 12 hours a day for a week straight. I'm curious who in your group was sad enough to do that for this task, or who had enough free time to help you. Since as you've said, you don't have a secondary account, so you couldn't possibly have powered leveled yourself on the second character.

Natenn

03-06-2012, 12:04 AM

Just another Abyssea raised noob that throws bodys at ADL spammed daily, pay him no mind.

Scribble

03-06-2012, 01:07 AM

Especially a game that allows you to level multiple characters ? I don't get it...

You don't get it because you have problems grasping simple concepts. You are allowed to level every job so that pretty much removes the necessity to play multiple characters because you can access everything with only one. You can avoid having to do all the tedious quests, missions, ect. It's not just about the dollar, it's the time needed to do things several times for multiple characters. That might be fine for some people, but it is ridiculous to suggest that as a viable strategy for clearing content so you can kill that noise.

Mules are there to be what they are : other characters.
A mule is typically used to carry shit you'd rather not. Other general uses include being positioned to purchase from vendors or access something that you'd rather not go out of your way to get. They are usually left at low levels without the need to progress the character since you can already do that with your main.

Beside all serious allies doing ADl do it lol, otherwise poping 2 ADL only per run as an ally is pretty stupid.

I couldn't agree more, but that doesn't suggest that you should have to go out of your way to do it. It suggests that there is a problem with the development and implementation of the event. You pretty much made my point for me.

I don't have any issue with ADL being difficult, although I could do without the luck involved in the 'pray you pick the right clone' game. Making your own clone to do your dirty work is your prerogative, but it's a result of poor development. People are so lazy these days. Crap like this is the exact reason RMT exists. People would rather go AFK and pay someone else to do it for them than actually participate themselves. Sad and probably a large part of the reason why the population is dwindling.

Tinuviel

03-06-2012, 02:31 AM

Move ADL to abyssea - paradox so we can brew him!

MarkovChain

03-08-2012, 04:20 AM

second spharai of the LS ; 1/5 on Ghorn.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z315/pchann/mdk99.jpg

We pretty much figured a way for a 100% win on the first clone making us 50%+ win rate. ADL's AI changes from GOD to Ikillyou under roughly 10%, since it appears that the first clone has very high chance to spam Tera slash and Dynamic implosion at this point (while it favors dynamic ruptur and aoe drain prior to 50% for instance, ad well as the other weak ones ; also the next clones will change from -ga3 to -ga4 and death). The first split is governed by the 50% HP limit, the only reason you can bring it below is if he uses a spell or a WS around this time (also it can split prior to 50% if it uses violent rupture). <40% means triple clones. Once it is split, just melee it to ~ 15% at which point the SMN does shock squall for stun and the 4 monks use a 300% TP victory smite together. With this strategy only multiple tera slash can wipe you (which it can use at any time but favors under 50%).

Monchat

03-08-2012, 06:49 AM

this is all the more a reason for 18 man alliances to only bring MNKs SMNs and 1 BRD.

MNK: do not need to 2H unlike other DDs, because 2x march = hundredfist.
SMN: Perfect defense, you can pop as many ADL as you have SMNs. Stunga= a stunga order means you have not only PD on, but also that ADL can't do shit for 10s each time a SMN uses stunga ( 10SMN, yes please).
BRD: doesn't need to 2H with +3 instrument either, and with +2 the mnks will be at like 75% instea dof 80% delay or something.

Neisan_Quetz

03-08-2012, 08:11 AM

*Mnk doesn't 2 hour because it does little, if anything, with marches

French math.

MarkovChain

03-08-2012, 08:23 AM

Check out level 90 haste caps then come back to me. Gjallahorn is like 1 or 2% overkill on monks. Also any 2 hour is ruined by the ~13 sec summonning phase followed by the few seconds of being pushed away by violent rupture.

Neisan_Quetz

03-08-2012, 08:40 AM

13 + seconds of knockback completely ruins 2h, got it.

Not that 3 DDs even need it to match or beat Mnk on ADL.

MarkovChain

03-08-2012, 06:45 PM

Neisan_Quetz

03-08-2012, 09:07 PM

If you can't see why marches making HF fairly useless, then trying to defend not using 2h because it isn't actually doing anything, then trying to act like Mnk is the only DD in the game (which you did back at 75 with Salvage) - actually yeah, this is you being exactly the same you were 5 years ago.

Alkimi

03-08-2012, 11:58 PM

Enough about MNKs already? It's lvl 90 content, WAR, SAM, DRK, MNK all destroy him.

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1500/upheaval.png

Like that!

If it was lvl 99 content and ADL was 9 levels higher then MNKs with no attack buffs would be absolutely god awful on him, as it stands they do OK.

MarkovChain

03-09-2012, 03:43 AM

I'd like YOU to explain ME why monk is lacking "attack buffs". Keep in mind that I solved the entire pdif system recently (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20989-defense-attack-damage). Level difference will matter very little on comparison of DDs. All this comes from all BG noobs that explained us that Fafnir had incredible defense while in reality it has 30 more DEF than other monsters.

MarkovChain

03-09-2012, 03:46 AM

wish12oz

03-09-2012, 03:51 AM

My video apprently made butthurt a wider range of people. Where in nynja ?

lol....... You're still here trying to prove you're not a waste of time? I guess all that stuff we said about how bad you are really hurt your pride since you keep needing to try and prove your superiority.

BTW, any half decent warrior is better than the best monk.

MarkovChain

03-09-2012, 04:02 AM

Is that BG-math? lol

Neisan_Quetz

03-09-2012, 04:40 AM

French Math, Five hits, etc.

Nynja is no longer with us. He's in a better place.

macross

03-09-2012, 09:37 AM

I don't understand what you are saying. First you make it sound like not using hundred fist is stupid , then you explain us that 3 DDs match our 4 monks without their 2H ? All I can say is "hahaha". You are like macross. Their alliance of 12 WARs definitely beat my 4 MNKs. Also ~5k views on my second video.

You know sam doesn't need 2h to out DD monk too yah? I don't care how fast you can punch, you still will not do as many WS as a war or SAM. As for melee dot, my war crits 100% for 1 minute for 1300-2500 using 2h. ADL is long dead before my 2h or PD wears off. I don't care if it splits 3-4x, we will still kill it, unless it does 2x terrors. Gotten 31 umbrals now, going only 2x a week, how well are you doing?

MarkovChain

03-09-2012, 04:30 PM

Ws damage means jack shit for this mob, unless, like you, you take WAY too many people to take care of the side effects of killing too fast. On the first 50% I need to limit my killing speed or else it triple splits. After that I also purposely don't use WS until the last few %. It's funny that you are bragging about your "31" marrows with a supposedely 100% win. We have gotten 11 marrows ourselves since the video has been posted and improved our strat too. We pop 3 ADLs every 2 days, aka day1= no pop, day 2=popx3. And you only pop once a week ... We also slowed down a bit because we tend to have way more NM pops that what's needed. We can go as fast as 5 ADL every 3 days. We can pretty much average ~5 marrow per week.

Also lol SAM, one of the worst melee job ever.

macross

03-09-2012, 09:24 PM

I never said we are 100% win. You can go and kill your 5 ADL every 3 days, I will do my however many I can fit in the 2 days per week, and spend the other 5 days farming my currency for fun instead.

I don't know what this side effect of bringing too many people and killing too fast is, besides actually winning most of the time?

Play with some good sam or drks and run a parse and you will see why we don't bring monks.

You're still an idiot for not having a war there for bloodrage or using one of your cormules to give you rolls either.

Yinnyth

03-10-2012, 03:25 AM

My video apprently made butthurt a wider range of people. Where in nynja ?

Your video is not what you promised.

Dude I'm going to post a video soon to prove you your gimpness when I'm done with with empy and other stuff. Just shut up. I'm going to go even farther than what I claimed. I claim that a pimp out party of 6 players will destroy ADL to less than 25% before it splits , and that a decent ally of 10+ people is necessarily putting the NM at ~5% when it splits, making it essentially a joke barring dynamis implosion.

Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed you even manage to kill ADL. I honestly thought you were all talk. But your claims throughout this thread were much, much more grand than simply "I can kill ADL with 6 people". That claim is nothing terribly special because my group has also managed to kill him with 6 people, and one of our DDs is a thf. Your claims were that 6 people can get him below 25% before he splits, and 10+ people can get him to 5%.

Hell, you even claimed later in the thread that ADL always splits exactly 30 seconds after being popped. Then, after videos were presented showing ADL taking less than 30 seconds to split and another video of him taking over 2 minutes to split, you revised your claim to "Well, he still takes exactly 30 seconds to split for our group". Now that you've posted 2 videos, I can safely say "nuh-uh". On your first video he takes 28 seconds after being popped to split. On your second he takes 20.

So congratulations on your wins, but I'm still sorta waiting for the evidence to the ridiculous claims you were making. Hell, I'd be willing to settle for a video of 6 people successfully killing 2 copies of ADL in one pop. My mind tells me it should be possible, but it might require a different strategy than the one my group is currently using.

Monchat

03-10-2012, 04:03 AM

with our newest strategy(shock squall+ light skillchains @ 15%) is is possible to have only 3 MNKs thus replacing the 4th with a SMN and 6 man groups are able to pop 2 ADL every 2 days, basically. We are at about 22-23 attemps I believe and 10 wins, 11 marrows, we were a bit unlucky on several pops. Still no HQ swords which sucks. many 100c though. all done in 2 weeks span.

MarkovChain

03-10-2012, 04:14 AM

Your video is not what you promised.

Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed you even manage to kill ADL. I honestly thought you were all talk. But your claims throughout this thread were much, much more grand than simply "I can kill ADL with 6 people". That claim is nothing terribly special because my group has also managed to kill him with 6 people, and one of our DDs is a thf. Your claims were that 6 people can get him below 25% before he splits, and 10+ people can get him to 5%.

Hell, you even claimed later in the thread that ADL always splits exactly 30 seconds after being popped. Then, after videos were presented showing ADL taking less than 30 seconds to split and another video of him taking over 2 minutes to split, you revised your claim to "Well, he still takes exactly 30 seconds to split for our group". Now that you've posted 2 videos, I can safely say "nuh-uh". On your first video he takes 28 seconds after being popped to split. On your second he takes 20.

So congratulations on your wins, but I'm still sorta waiting for the evidence to the ridiculous claims you were making. Hell, I'd be willing to settle for a video of 6 people successfully killing 2 copies of ADL in one pop. My mind tells me it should be possible, but it might require a different strategy than the one my group is currently using.

So you should thank me for explaining you how to do it ?

Yinnyth

03-10-2012, 06:25 AM

So you should thank me for explaining you how to do it ?

No, I should ask you to post the video you promised. 6 people, 25% before he splits, exactly 30 seconds after pop. You seem to be assuming my linkshell was not capable of killing ADL until you posted videos. Your videos are a straightforward PD zerg. That strategy has been well known since before this thread was started. You even seem to think you were the first people to think of using shock squall when it was mentioned on page 9:

Have the DD's hold back until he clones. Then 1 party on each clone with BLM's AoE nuking and tossing stun at their designated clone if its up. SMN's use the Ramuh stun BP.

The fact that he slowly gets nastier the lower his HP gets has been well known to my linkshell for a long time as well. In fact, we don't PD at the start, we wait until he hits 75% HP because he's a pushover up until he splits. So what exactly have you contributed to the conversation about ADL again? No one questioned that ADL could be killed by 6 people.

Well, to be fair, maybe a few people questioned whether or not YOU could kill him with 6 people since, at the time, you seemed completely ignorant about the fight. What, with all the claiming that 10+ people could bring him to 5% HP before he splits without you seeming to realize that would mean he'd split into 4 forms. But you're not the first to do it with 6 people, and you're not exactly using any shockingly new strategies to do it. It's still just buff up and pound him down.

MarkovChain

03-10-2012, 07:24 AM

macross

03-10-2012, 09:16 AM

HQ sword is very rare, killed over 40 ADL, been killing him since lvl 90 and still haven't seen one.
Your kill slow strat works till he terrors you and kills the smns and you waste yet another pop.

Yinnyth

03-10-2012, 11:42 AM

Yes I'm the first one to 6 man it hence why my video has 5k views, and it makes you rage. Shock squall and enfire have been in my strategy from start even though it was not my focus at that time so give me a break with your "you are not the first person to kill adl or to stun adl" ; no I'm not the first one to stun ADL (who cares again ?), i'm the first one to 6 man it and didn't pretend anything else.

I'll accept that 5k views on your video can serve as proof that you're the first person to kill ADL with 6 people if you'll accept that 5k views on a video of me doing a backflip serves as proof that I'm the first person to do a backflip. Also:

The video is not what you promised.

Seeing as I'm only at 75% of my potential, I'm sure I can bring it at 25% with 6 if it is possible and not block by a force clone.

You've provided more false information to this thread than truth. Up until you posted a video, anyone attempting to use your info on the fight would be worse off than if they just tried winging it. After you posted the video, we learned... that every other post was correct and PD zerg is indeed the way to go for this fight.

So to avoid being as worthless as Pchan and actually provide some useful information to anyone attempting the fight, I offer this tidbit: ADL's oblivion smash is a suped-up version which does AoE physical damage + bind + silence + dispels one random buff on everyone in range. Perfect defense blocks most of the damage, fully blocks the bind and silence, but DOES NOT block the dispel. If your group is like mine and kills a little slower than a full alliance, you're going to want some dummy buffs because he can get a little spammy with the oblivion smash after splitting. He can bring your zerg to a screeching halt if he removes all haste effects from your DDs.

Have your SMN give ecliptic growl before perfect defense, and get some spare haste from something if you have more than 6. Embrava works wonders on this fight, so get a SCH as your 7th member if you can manage it.

macross

03-10-2012, 06:40 PM

Went 5 for 4 today, 5 umbrals in 4 out of 4 kills yay. That's our 4th dbl umbral drop. I think the more people strat works a lot better yes.

MarkovChain

03-10-2012, 07:04 PM

HQ sword is very rare, killed over 40 ADL, been killing him since lvl 90 and still haven't seen one.
Your kill slow strat works till he terrors you and kills the smns and you waste yet another pop.

You can't get terror if you follow the strategy I posted. Apparently it can only do it at low HP (first clone only).

MarkovChain

03-10-2012, 07:12 PM

So to avoid being as worthless as Pchan and actually provide some useful information to anyone attempting the fight, I offer this tidbit: ADL's oblivion smash is a suped-up version which does AoE physical damage + bind + silence + dispels one random buff on everyone in range. Perfect defense blocks most of the damage, fully blocks the bind and silence, but DOES NOT block the dispel. If your group is like mine and kills a little slower than a full alliance, you're going to want some dummy buffs because he can get a little spammy with the oblivion smash after splitting. He can bring your zerg to a screeching halt if he removes all haste effects from your DDs.
.

It doesn't last long enough for you to care about dispel, seriously. Embrava is retarded because you need PD anyway, all it does is cost you one more slot and a 2H to reset every fight. I know the BG noobs recently tried to sell us that SCH is awesome in nyzul and ADL, but no they are not. The only way it can help is if you want to kill it w/o PD which I believe is possible but sounds retarded. All embrava does is replace BRD by SCH and that's about it, because the 5 tick regain doesn't help, with my strategy at least. I'm more intersted in strategies that remove members than those that increases members. I'm going as far as to say that 3 extremely good mnks (like me) will do the same as the 4 in the video, if using the stun strategy efficiently.

Yinnyth

03-11-2012, 01:53 AM

Embrava can last 12.5 minutes. Unless someone dies on your first fight, it'll still be up for the second and possibly third fight. It also acts as haste insurance incase he uses double oblivion smash immediately after splitting, and it happens to dispel your marches. Besides, if you can get a 50% win rate with only burning 2 SPs, a 100% win rate from burning 3 SPs would completely be worthwhile. I gave the tip for people who are still struggling to get a 50% win rate, however.

MarkovChain

03-11-2012, 06:38 AM

Yinnyth

03-11-2012, 09:34 AM

you are acting like embrava is decisive, it's not. What makes you win is perfect defense. Haste dispel or not is not going to change anything. If anything, as 7th I would use a second SMN because this would allow a second stun to use in case the first clone is the wrong one. And sa bonus you can pop one more per run.
Let's assume that you are correct about a second shock squall being worth more than embrava. How exactly do you plan on safely getting the SMN close enough to shock squall at exactly the right moment? You do realize ADL's oblivion smash, violent rupture, transfusion, dynamic implosion, and tera slash all have a range of 30', yes? I'm not saying it's impossible for a SMN to find the right moment to charge in and use shock squall, but even a really good player would probably fail more frequently than they would succeed.

So no, embrava is more useful than a dead SMN. And again, I'm not talking about your strategy. You're using monks... monks don't exactly make the best use of TP when compared to other DDs. So for you? Yeah, go ahead and screw embrava. For my group, it's awesome.

MarkovChain

03-11-2012, 07:34 PM

Lol did you even read what I said ? Perfect defense lasts almost the duration of the 2 clones, so you can use the second shocksquall at any time, you are immune to everything. Seriously, did you even fight ADL ?

100%-41% => melee it down with both melee and ws
41%-20% => tp it down
20% => Shock Squall 1 which will last until dead
Second clone : 41% ~15% = you still have PD, use Schock squall right @ 20% or whenever PD wears off if you don't kill fast enough

This method is almost guarranted to kill 2 clones with 7, almost because the second clone can be hardcore, it can split right when engaged, slowing you down and saying goodbye to PD. Ideally you'd want the second SMN to time exactly PD so as to use SS right when PD stops.