Arch Dynamis lords difficultly.

[Yinnyth]

Lol did you even read what I said ? Perfect defense lasts almost the duration of the 2 clones, so you can use the second shocksquall at any time, you are immune to everything. Seriously, did you even fight ADL ?

100%-41% => melee it down with both melee and ws
41%-20% => tp it down
20% => Shock Squall 1 which will last until dead
Second clone : 41% ~15% = you still have PD, use Schock squall right @ 20% or whenever PD wears off if you don't kill fast enough

This method is almost guarranted to kill 2 clones with 7, almost because the second clone can be hardcore, it can split right when engaged, slowing you down and saying goodbye to PD. Ideally you'd want the second SMN to time exactly PD so as to use SS right when PD stops.

So you're saying that SMN who is your SEVENTH member, and therefore NOT IN THE MAIN PARTY is going to be safe from damage because he'll have perfect defense on. Or are you implying a tactic you have not yet described or used in either of your videos where despite having spare SMNs or CORs outside your party, you leave the BRD standing around in the main party doing nothing during the actual fight? Just like SCH, BRD doesn't need to be there after their buffs are up, but since you have yet to acknowlege the ability to do so, and both of your videos show the brd standing around in the main party during the fight, I assumed you had not yet figured out how to party shuffle.

[MarkovChain]

In your scenario then, isn't the second SMN using his PD just for himself as the seventh member, and therefore cannot do a second pop unless you reset 2hr?

Facepalm? The second smn is only here for a second stun but it can be swapped with the first SMN on another pop.

[MarkovChain]

So you're saying that SMN who is your SEVENTH member, and therefore NOT IN THE MAIN PARTY is going to be safe from damage because he'll have perfect defense on. Or are you implying a tactic you have not yet described or used in either of your videos where despite having spare SMNs or CORs outside your party, you leave the BRD standing around in the main party doing nothing during the actual fight? Just like SCH, BRD doesn't need to be there after their buffs are up, but since you have yet to acknowlege the ability to do so, and both of your videos show the brd standing around in the main party during the fight, I assumed you had not yet figured out how to party shuffle.

Sorry thought it was obvious that you exchange the BRD and the SMN after songs, and then PD ¿ My video don't reflect my evolved startegy, you can do this method with only 6 persons assuming the brd has a smn on a mule too.

[Mahoro]

Now I see the big assumption, yes, that the BRD has a SMN mule. Don't "facepalm?" me when you keep introducing new factors :p

[MarkovChain]

Nah you didn't read or only read the part you want. The BRD and the second SMN swap before PD, this way both SMN have PD.

[MarkovChain]

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z315/pchann/spharai99-1.jpg

4/5 in today's run <3, and we are done 3x relic 99.

[wish12oz]

4/5 in today's run <3, and we are done 3x relic 99.

I dunno why you try to come in here and brag, but any group that's been doing it as long as you with 12 members would have 6++ done by now in the same time frame.
When you can push 5+ marrows in 2 days with 6 consistently, it would matter and be something to brag about.

[MarkovChain]

BG maths. You are faster and better than me only if half of your LS has level 99 relics (and empys) by now.

[wish12oz]

BG maths. You are faster and better than me only if half of your LS has level 99 relics (and empys) by now.

BG math, six people making three 99relics in the time span twelve people would take to make more then six, is not winning or being awesome. Is your ban up yet? can you come back to BG?

[Mahoro]

Nah you didn't read or only read the part you want. The BRD and the second SMN swap before PD, this way both SMN have PD.

Please point out where you said that before I made my initial post. Yinnyth and I had the same reaction for a reason.

[Natenn]

Why are you guys still arguing with him? We all know he's lied this entire time, just another abyssea boomer who thinks he can come in here with his Braego helm on MNK tell a bunch of lies and half truths and be safe from every other person telling what we all really wanna say but can't because its possible SE bans us in game. He doesn't do ADL with 6, maby 5 DD + SMN for pd he considers "only 6" when he clearly has CORs and other ppl outside PT, i just hope no one is foolish enough to believe him.

[MarkovChain]

Because it is common sense lol (not for you 2 though). Anyway, I decided to release a final video describing out THE method™ we are using. This ensures 50% win rate no matter what. I'll repeat the grand lines :

setup : MNK/WARx4 with level 90 empy or better, BRD & SMN.
phase 1 : 100% --> 41%
41% is the lowest % you want because after that it cuts your chance from 50% to 33% due to it triple splitting. Each monk does an initial 300TP WS, followed by a second one when TP are up. Generally half of the monks don't have time to do a second WS because it is already summonning (usually ~50%). Turn toward the wall or the grid so as not to be pushed too far (note that you really need to touch the wall or they can pop between you and the wall and eject you at several meters, considerably slowing down the fight).
phase 2 : 41% --> 25%
Don't use any WS and TP it down until around 25%
phase 3 : 25%
Have your SMN use a macro /pet "Schock squall" <bt>. Long duration stun, that carries over for a few seconds to the next clone if the first clone was the wrong one.
phase 3 : 25% -->0%
Each monk does a 300% TP WS. Since VS is crit mod, it usually ends up being a large damage WS (~4K) plus the inherent light SC that necessarily comes with it. ADL is unable to act and cannot use its preferred move at low HP : dynamic implosion/tera.


This video (http://youtu.be/_ThQz0cBb5Y)is two fights of ADL using roughly the above method (swapped smn and brd after songs).

[Mahoro]

Quick dude, stop posting and start leveling that BRDs second character SMN mule and doing ToAU missions. Isn't the chance of 50 --> 100% win worth the few days that will take?! It's common sense!

[Alkimi]

Yeah we've done a good number of runs now and I've noticed he always uses his nastier moves at lower HP such as Implosion and Tera Slash and they're the only two that will end the run, hence if you do wipe it's usually at very low HP.

First form he just uses lulzy crap like Mana Storm and casts spells.

[MarkovChain]

With my strategy, allies should not see implosion as multiple smn means they can stun each clone if a stun order is decided.

[Monchat]

Why are you guys still arguing with him? We all know he's lied this entire time, just another abyssea boomer who thinks he can come in here with his Braego helm on MNK tell a bunch of lies and half truths and be safe from every other person telling what we all really wanna say but can't because its possible SE bans us in game. He doesn't do ADL with 6, maby 5 DD + SMN for pd he considers "only 6" when he clearly has CORs and other ppl outside PT, i just hope no one is foolish enough to believe him.

not sure of serious.

[Alkimi]

We'll have the 2 SMNs use shock squall after it's cloned (about 10 seconds apart) so they're generally stunned most of the time but it will still get a TP move off at some point unless your timing is incredible. Clones last night decided to double tera slash killing 5/6 of our DDs which was most disagreeable.

We usually have 16 in alliance (Could do with less but would rather not rely on wild card) and do 2-3 pops per run, think we've got 8 kills and 3 wipes from last 5 runs which we're pretty happy with overall.

The market is starting to crash on marrows it seems, all the crazies have bought their 30-40 mil marrows so we'll start doing our own relics soon.

[Karbuncle]

not sure of serious.

Theres two Pchans now :(, guess i need to update my sig

[Apelila]

With my strategy, allies should not see implosion as multiple smn means they can stun each clone if a stun order is decided.

I thought the point of your strategy was to only have a random smn,1 brd and the rest where mnks? Going back to your mule plan of leveling SMN's, how would a burned SMN be able to land anything without being skilled up?

Sorry for my absence, Nynja and I where making some video's of our own. Giggity.

[Raksha]

FYI I've embrava'd an entire alliance for 3 ADL fights (and a NQ DL fight) without 2hr reset. Stay outside of the alliance and lock your 2hr on the pop ???


Need sublimation and convert (or meds) to do it.

[Natenn]

50% win rate is luck based by definition, how common sense eludes you to this degree is beyond comprehension. Again ,you are not special, anyone can spam DL and do the same thing you do. Nothing you posted or made a video of reflects you have a skill others don't posses. We all know (I hope we all do) that you have well geared MNKs in your group, BIG WHOOP THERE HOSS. So do 1000 other ppl. Can you even explain in any fashion shape or form how MNK takes "skill"? I thought i was smug but you take the cake, i at least have the accomplishments to back up my stories no one even knew who you were till you started spouting nonsense about how great you are on here just because you killed ADL a few times. The bottom line is ADL is luck based, just about everyone will agree with that, ive killed it with 10 ppl but wiped with 18 before. It happens to everyone, don't go off like you have a 100% win rate or some astronomicaly skilled ppl that you don't. ok???

[macross]

BG maths. You are faster and better than me only if half of your LS has level 99 relics (and empys) by now.

We're 7/10 done with round one, that's more than 1/2. Only going 2x a week as well. So I guess we're better and faster. 36 total so far. We've only got 2 99 empys, but at least they aren't wasted on monks. 3 mythics too, two more in a bit coming. Where are yours?

[MarkovChain]

We are done, unlike your LS. We are faster. All members with a relic have it at 99, and that's half of the LS. You have been explaining us that killing in alliance is better because of better win rate but no, the only way you beat 50% win with 6 in 100% with 12. You are not even there yet, I bet half your LS members don't have a relic either, and that those that have one are still far from being completed. If what you blurb is true, aka killing in ally is better, then you should be done by now. Clearly it's not the case.

Also our cruise speed is 5 pops every 2 days.


Also selling umbral marrow for 20M on quetz, so be sure to let your members know it so that they transfer. With me it's going to take <1 week, with you 3 months? Price debatable if they buy all 5 !

[Natenn]

You don't even know my LS, most of us have at least 1 relic and theres about 5 of us with 2 of em myself included. I got mine back when they were an actual achievment but now they can be solo'd pretty much, i really don't care how fast you get your marrows it has no effect on my game. We only been going 2x a week idk how many times you have went/fought it but id guess its about 10x as many attempts then most ppl. if we really wanted to we could daily and do 2-5 pops a day pending luck on Wildcard and ppl showing up but for most dynamis is their source of income and they don't want to give up to many days, to many relics in LS to sell them just yet idk if you sell half or what not that it matters. We rarely get 18 its usually 10-12 i think we had 15-18 on 2 diff occasions. Also don't talk about my LSs kill speed, we were more then likely farming Qilin while you were still wiping to the Wyrm in Cauldron(from ppl ive talked to from quetz tell me the pickings are slim over there).

[Natenn]

As a side note, if you're gonna try and hurt me by bragging about how your done bc no ones buying your bologna storys can you at least use better spelling? Have to read over and decipher your posts cause your probably posting angry and fast like im sitting here spamming refresh waitin on your reply.

Back on topic, last ADL we did we had 4 or 5 CORs for WC and it took 4 tries to restore 2hrs :( we had a ton of pops but were only able to pop 2 which we killed quite easily that run, only spawned 1 clone both times, picked the correct 1 first pop got Ring/1 marrow, 2nd pop picked wrong clone but still killed both b4 resummon. Had an issue several times where it resummoned almost instantly after calling the first clone, not sure why that was to laggy for me to see on PS2. But i have telling LS i bet 2 accession stuns would negate those nasty double/triple Terra slashes if the battle drags on to long. I think its a good idea but i get the "Oh you're just stupid hurdur" response, anyone tried doing that?

[MarkovChain]

I was talking to macross, not to some psycho that sends me mad tells on FFXIAH when they get their butt hurt around here.

[Natenn]

mad tells? 1 is mad? lol i have nothing to be butt hurt about either. I just wanted to say things that shouldn't be said here on the official forums. And it was only what? a "you mad"? You sure do like blowing things way out of proportion.

[Apelila]

I don't know what the better troll is: Acting like it's an achievement when your LS finishes 99 relics but only has 6 or less people, or implying that having/not having a relic means anything. Bravo.

[Khiinroye]

Enough of the epeen already.

We know ADL isn't hard for a good group; if you guess right, a single party can kill it most of the time. If you guess wrong, a group of 12 can usually still kill it. Shout groups and ADL groups who just accept anyone will still wipe a lot. Build TP before you pop, and try not to push it below 40% before the first split, so there's only 2 after the split.

As for info, I'm not sure how the 2nd split works; it seems there is a minimum time before it happens; I'd guess 45 seconds to 1 minute from the first split. If you guess right, or kill all the clones quickly, it never happens. If you wipe, the real ADL goes and stands at the pop spot, so if he's got DoT (reapply after splits) and is extremely low hp, you might be able to zombie it--be aware of alliance hate.

After meteor is introduced on the live servers, it might be viable to have a party of blms, who wait out of aoe range until after the split. One of the smns can hit ADL with shock squall and a 6 blm meteor (targeted on a clone not being fought so the target doesn't die midcast). The strongest blm casts last since that's the largest effect on the final damage. This *might* be viable for the weaker groups, but I won't guarantee anything, and my group won't need to do that.

[macross]

I was talking to macross, not to some psycho that sends me mad tells on FFXIAH when they get their butt hurt around here.

You're only faster in the sense that you do it every day? If we farmed every day we'd be done long ago. Like what nateen posted many of us farm on our own, and wouldn't be too happy if we had to do adl every single day. 11 individual people have relics, one stopped playing. But a few have multiple relics, one guy even has like 10 or more, I've lost count. Will we keep on farmin till we complete every single relic, I dunno. I'd prefer to sell them to be more fair to those who don't have a relic, or help fund more relics.

[Monchat]

After meteor is introduced on the live servers, it might be viable to have a party of blms, who wait out of aoe range until after the split. One of the smns can hit ADL with shock squall and a 6 blm meteor (targeted on a clone not being fought so the target doesn't die midcast). The strongest blm casts last since that's the largest effect on the final damage. This *might* be viable for the weaker groups, but I won't guarantee anything, and my group won't need to do that.

I've seen strategies with BLM metor burn. But I honestly dont see the point. Must bring 6 BLMs, so you're basically replacing 6 DD by 6 BLM ok. No more randomness? I don't think so.

People understimate violent rupture, which I think is higher radius than 30'. You have stunga, but remember the time it splits the first time is still random. It has done it @ anywhere from 35% to 65% in ou attemps (4 DDs). And im pretty sure the condition of the first splitis split @ 50% unless ADL is casting a spell or in the midle of a ws animation, or anytime between 75% and 50% when it uses rupture.

If the DDs slow down their damage they might not put its HP low enough for a 6-BLM meteor to one shot it. You will have two ADLs, so each of them will have to have their HP to be brought down to ~40%. Then you have a chance of triple split, and every time ADL does a WS, the clone does one.

There is the option to put the BLMs @ the gate so that they aren't push back but they will need perfect defence. And im prettysure it is not enough to not be interrupted, apparently rupture interrupts you even if you do not move ( not 100% sure about this, just our smn keeps was getting interrupts. On NQ DL, placing your self in a corner does not interrupt utsusemi im 100% sure).

So in the end I don't see any realy benefit except psychology. You win rate will be 95% instead of 80%? ok. still not 100% failproof.

[Return1]

Just Zerg it till it splits. Wait for the split and first WS volley from clones. Have a few BLMs Meteor the last few HP% off. If you can't get a group of BLMs that can time a meteor cast to wipe out the last few %, then you aren't that good. It's pretty foolproof.

[Karbuncle]

Replacing 6DD isn't really a problem in the normal 12-18 Man set up.

If you go with 18 People, You can replace 1 Party of your routine DD with a party of BLMs, 2 DD parties is way more than enough to zerg down ADL In a quick and safe fashion. As Return said, Its pretty idiot proof. Once it splits, Wait for a TP move or so, Have SMN's just stun it back to back while Meteor is being cast.

In the mean time, Your THF can use Steal on one, Mug on the other to plan TH on them both quickly :P

Now if you're only bring 12, It makes it a bit riskier, But if your Main DD Group is good, Its not a problem.

[MarkovChain]

Just Zerg it till it splits. Wait for the split and first WS volley from clones. Have a few BLMs Meteor the last few HP% off. If you can't get a group of BLMs that can time a meteor cast to wipe out the last few %, then you aren't that good. It's pretty foolproof.

You never killed ADL. Not sure how 6 BLM would have time to sync a meteor after split, and after WS, seeing as this is asking for butthurt, with dynamis implosion incoming, and the initial dynamic ruptur (knock back) as well as the disepl move that systematically interrupts spells. How long is meteor cast time ? My guess is it's going to be dead from melees before meteor goes off. It's out of question to have blm tank ADL so you are bound to use a melee party. Also ADL has 100k HP, how much is meteor x6 doing ?

[Karbuncle]

You never killed ADL. Not sure how 6 BLM would have time to sync a meteor after split, and after WS, seeing as this is asking for butthurt, with dynamis implosion incoming, and the initial dynamic ruptur (knock back) as well as the disepl move that systematically interrupts spells. How long is meteor cast time ? My guess is it's going to be dead from melees before meteor goes off. It's out of question to have blm tank ADL so you are bound to use a melee party. Also ADL has 100k HP, how much is meteor x6 doing ?

Haven't seen much of Meteor 6x Damage, But I think its about 30k~40k Damage...?

[Cljader1]

Some people on this forum are flat out stupid, all they can do is brag about what they have instead of offering constructive criticism related to the topic. I don't think the majority of people care how many times you killed ADL, I think his difficulty should be slightly eased, there a mass manipulation of marrows going on and I don't know if I like that.

[MarkovChain]

I like that & that's how I'm going to do a daurdabla99.

[Alkimi]

Just Zerg it till it splits. Wait for the split and first WS volley from clones. Have a few BLMs Meteor the last few HP% off. If you can't get a group of BLMs that can time a meteor cast to wipe out the last few %, then you aren't that good. It's pretty foolproof.

It's doable but imo there's too many things that can go wrong:

- Your DDs fail to get the first form below ~25%. Meteor fails to kill them all -> Wipe.
- One of your BLMs casts on the wrong clone. The difference in damage between 5 and 6 BLMs casting Meteor is huge. Make sure everyone is on the same one.
- The clones use Dynamic Implosion after first split (entirely possible if you're taking it down that low). Length of terror tends to vary so you would have to wait for it to wear on all BLMs.
- ADL still casts enfeebling spells frequently. PD means you resist most of them but they can still get through and you could still end up with one of your BLMs getting stoned/slept before you get Meteor off.
- Setup. You're limiting yourself to just 4 DDs for the initial form (assuming you're using 2 PDs), so DDx4 BLM SMN / BLMx5 SMN. With just 4 DDs chances are he'll split at too high a HP for meteor take him out, so you'll need 3xSMN per fight to be more reliable.


a few BLMs

You need six to do decent damage.

[Vold]

I thought meteor damage was upwards of 60k for a well geared group?


I like that & that's how I'm going to do a daurdabla99.Didn't Mdk attribute an entire post about how they ain't worth farming for under 50 million gils? Because you could take half a dozen BST mules into Dynamis daily to farm currency one after the other or whatever? It's kind of hard to follow you two sometimes because English is not your first language but that's the gist of what I could understand. So, are you now saying 20 million per is worth farming marrows? I'm beginning to sense Mdk's original rant post about the "low prices" was filled with a bunch of theory coulda beens and could dos and not reality.

[Natenn]

I thought meteor damage was upwards of 60k for a well geared group?

Didn't Mdk attribute an entire post about how they ain't worth farming for under 50 million gils? Because you could take half a dozen BST mules into Dynamis daily to farm currency one after the other or whatever? It's kind of hard to follow you two sometimes because English is not your first language but that's the gist of what I could understand. So, are you now saying 20 million per is worth farming marrows? I'm beginning to sense Mdk's original rant post about the "low prices" was filled with a bunch of theory coulda beens and could dos and not reality.

they are when ppl like him probably skim off the top. Probably why he doesn't want it nerfed, if its to easy he can't sell em anymore, and cant take advantage of LS.

[Mahoro]

Marrows have dropped to around 20-25 million on Lakshmi. We sold one for 30 million 2 weeks ago (our LS sells every 6th Marrow as a way to compensate LS members a bit), but I doubt we will get that price every time.

You can't use an ally of BSTs or whatever the "ideal" farming number is to determine Marrow cost because people aren't selling or paying for the ideal, and the ideal is realistically unattainable. Anywhere under 20 million I'd say is too cheap for the effort, but anywhere over 30-35 million becomes a benchmark where no market exists.

[Monchat]

It's doable but imo there's too many things that can go wrong:

- Your DDs fail to get the first form below ~25%. Meteor fails to kill them all -> Wipe.
- One of your BLMs casts on the wrong clone. The difference in damage between 5 and 6 BLMs casting Meteor is huge. Make sure everyone is on the same one.
- The clones use Dynamic Implosion after first split (entirely possible if you're taking it down that low). Length of terror tends to vary so you would have to wait for it to wear on all BLMs.
- ADL still casts enfeebling spells frequently. PD means you resist most of them but they can still get through and you could still end up with one of your BLMs getting stoned/slept before you get Meteor off.
- Setup. You're limiting yourself to just 4 DDs for the initial form (assuming you're using 2 PDs), so DDx4 BLM SMN / BLMx5 SMN. With just 4 DDs chances are he'll split at too high a HP for meteor take him out, so you'll need 3xSMN per fight to be more reliable.



You need six to do decent damage.

I've not seen any enfeebles go through perfect defense besides death and buff-drain move.

[Return1]

I'm not too familiar with with Meteor's Damage with 3 I admit, but I was told it could do 25-30k+ with 3BLM in good gear and with COR Buffs, which should be enough to kill both ADL clones after a good zerg group causes a split, which is how you can avoid the problem of picking a clone and hoping you get the right one.

Now then if we're dealing with 6, and if ADL really only has around 100k parsed out, then you only really need to get him to a bit under 40%, easily doable by a competent zerg pt, for 6 competent BLMs to kill him. And really? They might target the wrong one? This is why you have the /assist command. Nobody cares about the terror move, you could just be calm and wait since you'll have taken all the "rush" out of a post split ADL. Just keep your BLMs back and out of death conal. MAB roll, maybe a Diabolos MAB ward, and calmly finish ADL and his clones. Even if they survive meteor by a little bit, you could still ja spell that last little bit down. It's just nice to have a closer to take the "luck" factor out of the fight.

Also: If you're just bringing the BRD for SV Marches, wouldn't a SCH be a better choice for your group since Embrava is better and SCH can bring more to a group after the battle starts?

[Alkimi]

I've not seen any enfeebles go through perfect defense besides death and buff-drain move.

Breakga, Sleepga and the paralyze effect from w/e TP move it is can go through. PD blocks them the majority of the time but I've had to stona/wake up DDs a few times.

[MarkovChain]

I'm not too familiar with with Meteor's Damage with 3 I admit, but I was told it could do 25-30k+ with 3BLM in good gear and with COR Buffs, which should be enough to kill both ADL clones after a good zerg group causes a split, which is how you can avoid the problem of picking a clone and hoping you get the right one.

Now then if we're dealing with 6, and if ADL really only has around 100k parsed out, then you only really need to get him to a bit under 40%, easily doable by a competent zerg pt, for 6 competent BLMs to kill him. And really? They might target the wrong one? This is why you have the /assist command. Nobody cares about the terror move, you could just be calm and wait since you'll have taken all the "rush" out of a post split ADL. Just keep your BLMs back and out of death conal. MAB roll, maybe a Diabolos MAB ward, and calmly finish ADL and his clones. Even if they survive meteor by a little bit, you could still ja spell that last little bit down. It's just nice to have a closer to take the "luck" factor out of the fight.

Also: If you're just bringing the BRD for SV Marches, wouldn't a SCH be a better choice for your group since Embrava is better and SCH can bring more to a group after the battle starts?

<40% only happens when his AI lags on a spell or TP and you have to many melees on it. If you bring 6 BLM you remove 6 melees so you are not achieving this and likely have the same killing speed as the vid aka 40% on a good day, 50% usually.

Meteor doesn't kill anything unless it is 50-60K damage at least and by the time it is cast one copy is dead by the melee team. This doesn't remove any luck from the fight, you'd have to take down both copies at low enough HP and then do a sync nuke on either. In order to achieve this you will need 6 BLM and at least 4 melee, as well as 2 SMN, a BRD for melee buffs ... 13 people.

SCh doesn't bring anything once the battle starts, it's only better if you are going to farm which seems stupid because it means you brought 13+ people for a few pops only ?

[Monchat]

yea the main problem with meteor is it does not always split at 40%, it's at or before 50% unless it is in a spell/ws animation in which cas you can bring its low with many DDs. well with meteor burn this would not be a problem if it triple splits technically , but if it splits too early your melees will have to lower each copy's HP. If you take too much time you can end up with 4 copies up at a time lol. Not to mention that once it triples, it unlocks tera slash spam, and if one copy is brought below 25% it unlocks implosion (30second terror). Also the copy do not necessarilly pop with teh original mob's HP (but the first double split does).

[Zumi]

SE really needs to something about the ADL requirement for 99 weapons. Abyssea killed most large linkshells. Sure there are some that are capable of farming ADL and still do but they are in the minority. Most players only have maybe a group of 4-6 now that they play with mainly due to have the game became much more casual.

As seen there are very specialized low man set ups that can kill ADL with 6 people however this will not work for your random 6 people who want to upgrade their relics. Which makes taking an alliance is the best way to do it.

In FFXI people will not do this for free trying to put together a group for ADL will just not fly because most people see it as a waste of their time. Leading to like a 20m+ for each drop basically paying each person about 1m for their help.

[Monchat]

buying with gil is still an option for those w/o LS. Now you should do what the JPs do. It's impossible to do xarcabard during JP prime right now even on week days. They made one or 2 LSes designed only for ADL. 70+ people in zones during prime time. They enter with an allaince of 18 and their 18 SMN/COR mules, basically, and im not joking. The other day there were 15 LS-less, level 65 COR and 75 SMN waiting @ the entrance. They split in each ??? localtion and destroy anything in sight. although in the end I dont think they pop 18 in one session, but if one person gets to pop and ADL every 2-3 days with pretty much guarranted win (18 people), thats worth it.

[MarkovChain]

More info : ADL split is partly governed by the TP move "violent rupture" (knock back). For the first split it's obvious because it almost always split ofter this TP. Also the few times it triple split, wether on 2nd form or 3rd form, it was spamming rupture (2-3 in a sequel). So I think that's what makes it randomly triple split.

[Nayomi]

ADL is really easy if you know what your doing my LS kills 2~4 a run np even if we don't kill the right clone we still usualy win set up is
CORx3 / SMNx4 / SCH / BRD / WARx3 / SAMx2 / THF
2 of the SMNs and 1 COR are mules

[MarkovChain]

~90% of the time it only splits once, meaning that if you have the fire power to kill the two clones you have 90%+ success rate, like us and our 6-man strat.

[Yinnyth]

100% of the time, ADL splits as many times as he pleases provided you give him enough time to do so. The reason he's only splitting once ~90% of the time for you isn't because it's written into his code that he can only split once 90% of the time. It's because ~90% of the time you either kill the real one first, or kill the fake one, then zerg the real one before he gets a chance to split. Under normal circumstances he seems to split almost instantly after you kill the fake, but if he happens to be stunned when the fake dies (as in your strategy of using shock squall when the first one is low), he appears to put off splitting again until a time requirement is met.

I'm not sure if it's just a language thing, but you seem to have serious difficulties with the concepts of "cause" and "effect".

[MarkovChain]

Your post doesn't make sense, there is no normal condition or abnormal condition for adl. You cannot control the moment it will split a second time because it is random meaning that at a given kill speed you only have a certain % chance of killing it. It nearly never splits while you (well "I") kill the second form and this is not due to shock squall ; you don't seem to know that it can start summoning for tripling while under shock squall effect.

You only post for the sake of arguing.

[Yinnyth]

You said he only splits once ~90% of the time. In our language, that implies that 90% of the time, no matter what you do, he will not split a second time on that fight, which is completely untrue and stands the chance of confusing someone unless someone corrects you.

Then you went even further by saying if you have enough firepower to kill both clones, you'll have a 90% win rate. In our language, that means that if you can do enough damage to kill both clones before PD wears off, you'll win 90% of the time, which again is untrue. If you do that damage slowly enough, he'll split. Again, if no one corrected you on this, someone might become very confused about how ADL works.

Finally, I'd like to know how you know that ADL can split before his stun wears off. How can you be certain that summoning his clones wasn't just the first thing he did immediately after stun wore off? From my experiences on pup, I couldn't find a chat filter which allows you to see when a debuff cast by a pet wears off. I could be wrong on that, I suppose, but all the same, I'd like to have that information if you have it.

[Monchat]

Finally, I'd like to know how you know that ADL can split before his stun wears off. How can you be certain that summoning his clones wasn't just the first thing he did immediately after stun wore off? From my experiences on pup, I couldn't find a chat filter which allows you to see when a debuff cast by a pet wears off. I could be wrong on that, I suppose, but all the same, I'd like to have that information if you have it.

what he meant is: ADL always split at ~50%, and 90% of the time, you will kill both clones before he splits a second time, given enough fire power. with our 6-man stratgy (4 DD) we are able to kill the second clone about 50% of the time, which makes the win rate ~75%.

When the first clone killed is fake, and we fail to kill the second ( this happens on 25% of our ADL), and we are not implosionned, each time we failed has been when adl was summoning and spliting while stunned, genrally leading to a triple tera slash/implosion/wipe. You definatly can tell. since shock squal is supposed to last ~20s.

[Yinnyth]

Stun's duration is chaotic at best. "It should be lasting 20 seconds, but it feels like he split earlier than that." is a far cry from proof that he can split while stunned. In order to prove something, you need to eliminate all other possibilities. Your claim still leaves room for human error and relies on an unverified statement that shock squall lasts ~20 seconds on ADL all the time.

Now if you had proof that shock squall never lasts under a certain amount of time, and you had a video of the fight with ADL splitting within that amount of time after shock squall, then yes, that would count as proof. But right now, it's conjecture.

Am I saying you're wrong about this? No. I accept that this might be a possibility because I don't have any proof to the contrary. But to me this is an extraordinary claim since I've never seen ADL split while stunned, and I've seen ADL split a lot more than I care to admit. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And if you don't have proof, it's best to use qualifier statements such as "I think" or "I believe" or "I don't have any proof to back this up, but this is how it seems to work" instead of just outright claiming your belief is fact.

Also, considering the trend of this thread and how much backpedaling he's done, you'd have a better understanding of the truth if you just automatically assume everything Pchan says is wrong. He spent about the first 10 or 20 pages claiming that ADL's first split is completely based on time. Now he's claiming ADL's triple split is based on Violent Rupture, that ADL doesn't split a second time 90% of the time, and that ADL can split while stunned. ALL of these are extraordinary claims. They ALL seem contrary to what other people observe. You need to bring proof, or you need to accept the possibility that you could be wrong.

Or just learn to enjoy being called out by every intelligent player on the forums. I get the feeling that might be the choice he's going with.

[Trisscar]

the Fiat Lux fight was a prefect example of how a balanced Dynamis Lord fight can work.

Except no one can do Fiat Lux, it's impossible to get access.

[MarkovChain]

But to me this is an extraordinary claim since I've never seen ADL split while stunned, and I've seen ADL split a lot more than I care to admit. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And if you don't have proof, it's best to use qualifier statements such as "I think" or "I believe" or "I don't have any proof to back this up, but this is how it seems to work" instead of just outright claiming your belief is fact.

Also, considering the trend of this thread and how much backpedaling he's done, you'd have a better understanding of the truth if you just automatically assume everything Pchan says is wrong. He spent about the first 10 or 20 pages claiming that ADL's first split is completely based on time. Now he's claiming ADL's triple split is based on Violent Rupture, that ADL doesn't split a second time 90% of the time, and that ADL can split while stunned. ALL of these are extraordinary claims. They ALL seem contrary to what other people observe. You need to bring proof, or you need to accept the possibility that you could be wrong.

Or just learn to enjoy being called out by every intelligent player on the forums. I get the feeling that might be the choice he's going with.


So after the entire mass of idiots, including you, were jumping at my throat for claiming I could 6-man ADL, wich I proved with 3 videos, you still split nonsense trying to belittle me ? Everyhting we claim about ADL is correct and you are wrong because you don't actually kill it. Shock squall has a fixed duration, tiered to full/half/quarter etc because this is FFXI, you don't have to prove it. Unresisted shock squall on ADL can last that much and ADL can cast and split while stunned, otherwise you would see all the gimps killing it in ally destroying it before it even has a chance to split (tp burn until 60% > schockquall > unleash all WS would instantly kill it). I've killed maybe 80 ADL at this time I know what I'm saying.

[Rezeak]

Everyhting we claim about ADL is correct

about that...


More good info on ADL (aka not one from BG nor its unverified wiki). The first clone appears exactly after 30 sec into (pop time -> sumonning time)

Yea you were right about 6 pple can kill it but alot of other stuff you were wrong at as well it's a shame you can't argue reasonably or people might acully respect you imo.

I don't believe the 90% it'll split once since my ls has killed it's 50:50 imo.

On shocksquall it's really useful to deal w/ the tp moves after a split aga but the duration is more random than alway 20 secs infact it's RARE for you to get a 20 sec duration(infact i don't think i've ever seen it last that long and i have capped summing magic skill) prolly added by SE cause 2 SMN could stun lock ADL if the 20 sec thing was reliable.

Honesly tho a big help to ADL is stunning overall O.Smash is easily stunnable and good timing of shock squall can stop a 3-4 X tera slash wipe.

[Yinnyth]

So after the entire mass of idiots, including you, were jumping at my throat for claiming I could 6-man ADL, wich I proved with 3 videos, you still split nonsense trying to belittle me ?

I'm sorry, I don't seem to remember that. Could you please find the quote of me saying that you can't 6-man ADL? The thing I took exception to was your ridiculous claim:


the fight which implies that a minimum of 6 real DDs (aka level 90+ empy monks with soulvoice ma/ma/min&haste) should bring ADL to ~zero% before it splits leaving you with pale copies of maybe 1% HP.

I never said that it's impossible for 6 people to kill ADL. That's about the only believable thing you've said on this entire thread. I'm attacking you for almost EVERYTHING else you've said on this thread.


Shock squall has a fixed duration, tiered to full/half/quarter etc

So it's possible then... and bear with me on this one here... it's possible that he HALF RESISTED THE STUN, so STUN WORE OFF BEFORE YOU EXPECTED IT TO? That might explain the whole... you know... splitting within 20 seconds of using shock squall in a way which doesn't require him to behave unlike any other enemy in the game which are incapable of beginning a summoning animation until the effect of stun, terror, sleep, or petrify wears off.

I already said it's possible you're right. But common sense is against you on this which means that if you want to claim this as absolute truth, you need to bring proof to the table. You can start by bringing proof that shock squall is a set duration of stun. I don't play smn myself, so this wouldn't be something I would notice. I also don't see this information listed on any of my trusted sources.

[MarkovChain]

you two are mad especially the OP that didn't point his nose since I posted the video and kept leeching nynja's ass until that ; haha.

[Yinnyth]

Friend let me borrow their smn mule account to test this claim of yours, so I went out and picked on some colibri with timestamps. Counting from the time Ramuh readies shock squall to the "/echo ." I do as soon as the bird starts moving again, here's some samples:

Readies [15:59:04], stun off [15:59:18]..... 14 seconds
Readies [16:04:23], stun off [16:04:33]..... 10 seconds
Readies [16:09:10], stun off [16:09:34]..... 24 seconds

Readies time and landing time aren't the same thing I realize, but it's just as inaccurate as using the landing time from the chatlog since the landing time waits for the animation to finish. Regarless, from these samples you can see that shock squall is a non-standard debuff with a non-standard duration which varies widely from use to use, not the standard half/quarter/eigth/sixteenth system that most debuffs use. You know what other debuff follows this chaotic pattern? Stun does. Imagine that.

Please, go ahead and do your own testing though. And next time you make such claims as:

Shock squall has a fixed duration
Actually test BEFORE you claim. Also:

Everyhting we claim about ADL is correct
No, it really isn't. You just think it is. Up until you change your mind, then you forget and disown your original claims.

[Yinnyth]

you too are mad especially the OP that didn't point is nose since I posted the video and kept leeching nynja's ass until that ; haha.

Who cares about Nynja? I'm the one disputing your claims now. You don't get to go "AHAHA! I made a fool out of person A, therefore I have made fools out of persons B through J!"

Nynja and I are not the same person. Nynja stopped posting on this thread months ago. I'm not even going to defend his points of view, so sure, say whatever you want about him. Also, you've still got a lot of ridiculous claims to defend. I'm pretty much in the clear if the only thing I have to prove is that I'm not mad about your videos.

Hell, I'm GLAD you posted those videos because I get to use them as proof against you that ADL does not split exactly 30 seconds after popping everytime, EVEN JUST FOR YOUR GROUP.

[MarkovChain]

Friend let me borrow their smn mule account to test this claim of yours, so I went out and picked on some colibri with timestamps. Counting from the time Ramuh readies shock squall to the "/echo ." I do as soon as the bird starts moving again, here's some samples:

Readies [15:59:04], stun off [15:59:18]..... 14 seconds
Readies [16:04:23], stun off [16:04:33]..... 10 seconds
Readies [16:09:10], stun off [16:09:34]..... 24 seconds

Readies time and landing time aren't the same thing I realize, but it's just as inaccurate as using the landing time from the chatlog since the landing time waits for the animation to finish. Regarless, from these samples you can see that shock squall is a non-standard debuff with a non-standard duration which varies widely from use to use, not the standard half/quarter/eigth/sixteenth system that most debuffs use. You know what other debuff follows this chaotic pattern? Stun does. Imagine that.

Please, go ahead and do your own testing though. And next time you make such claims as:

Actually test BEFORE you claim. Also:

No, it really isn't. You just think it is. Up until you change your mind, then you forget and disown your original claims.
You are wrong, shock squall has fixed partial duration, it's easily tested and depend on skill level. Go away already lol. And please stop spreading nonsense like some spells can 1/16 resist.

[MarkovChain]

On shocksquall it's really useful to deal w/ the tp moves after a split aga but the duration is more random than alway 20 secs infact it's RARE for you to get a 20 sec duration(infact i don't think i've ever seen it last that long and i have capped summing magic skill) prolly added by SE cause 2 SMN could stun lock ADL if the 20 sec thing was reliable.

Honesly tho a big help to ADL is stunning overall O.Smash is easily stunnable and good timing of shock squall can stop a 3-4 X tera slash wipe.

Noone give a **** about Oblivion smash and also yes 2 smn will stun lock adl. The main reason it's not easy is that ramuh is likely to die/getting slept/interrupted for w/e reason but out of these situations, you will stun lock it especially if you are running with a lot of DDs (I would say with 6 DDs, there is no reason for adl to do anything after the first split).

[Yinnyth]

You are wrong, shock squall has fixed partial duration, it's easily tested and depend on skill level. Go away already lol.

Prove. It.

I already easily tested it, and my test results are 100% contrary to your claim. I wanted to say they were contrary to your test results but YOU HAVEN'T TESTED, YOU JUST ASSUME. So I said "claim" instead.

Do you know what the biggest difference is between you and me? When I heard you say that shock squall has a set duration, I thought you were full of crap because stun sure as hell doesn't have a set duration. But I made certain to state my disbelief in a way which still revealed that I realized I could be wrong. Then I actually tested it to find out the truth.

When's the last time you've doubted yourself? The only way a person can stop learning is if they assume they already know.

I invite you to prove me wrong. Do. It. Show me that shock squall has a set duration.

[MarkovChain]

I don't have to prove you wrong Mr "I can't do a proper test", as I have already tested it in the past. For obvious reasons your "3" sample size is worth nothing and is BG-worthy. Your method for measuring duration is laughable, since it's basically eyeballing, doesn't mention level of skill either . Do 10-20 shock squall and you will realize that for instance maximum duration all have about the same duration, but hey like all trolls you are better at posting for the sake of arguing than spending 30 minutes doing something clever.

[Return1]

You don't need a large sample size to debunk a "fixed" claim you tool.

[Dart]

why are you guys still talking with this idiot? Even God can't fix stupid so why are you all trying. He'll never admit to anything, even with proof sitting in front of him. Let it go :)

[Windwhisper]

Noone give a **** about Oblivion smash and also yes 2 smn will stun lock adl. The main reason it's not easy is that ramuh is likely to die/getting slept/interrupted for w/e reason but out of these situations, you will stun lock it especially if you are running with a lot of DDs (I would say with 6 DDs, there is no reason for adl to do anything after the first split).

Im sure you will proof your claim by making a video without using Perfect Defense and only 2 Summoners. Id love to see that claim :)

[Yinnyth]

I don't have to prove you wrong Mr "I can't do a proper test", as I have already tested it in the past. For obvious reasons your "3" sample size is worth nothing and is BG-worthy. Your method for measuring duration is laughable, since it's basically eyeballing, doesn't mention level of skill either . Do 10-20 shock squall and you will realize that for instance maximum duration all have about the same duration, but hey like all trolls you are better at posting for the sake of arguing than spending 30 minutes doing something clever.

I did over 30 samples and showed you 3. Why? Because going through the chat log and manually writing down the timestamps is a pain, and 3 was plenty to get the point across.

How would you measure stun duration when you can't get the chat log to tell you when stun wears off? Do you have some method which is not laughable?

[Ryanx]

what you do is walk in there with 10 war and 2 smn + full party of mages both smn use alex and the 10 wars zerg him down till split then cleave them

[MarkovChain]

only noobs would cleave it lol.

[Rezeak]

you two are mad especially the OP that didn't point his nose since I posted the video and kept leeching nynja's ass until that ; haha.

yea it's me making a million posts cause everyone disagrees with me.

Honestly pchan i'm glad you post on this forum pretty funny to see you work so hard to prove one or two things for noone to care cause your wrong so often noone believes you (also love how pdif 101 has 0 likes seems like there like a ton of interest in that ton of work you've done too)

/em look forward to you trying to prove the next thing noone cares about

[Nala]

why are you guys still talking with this idiot? Even God can't fix stupid so why are you all trying. He'll never admit to anything, even with proof sitting in front of him. Let it go :)

I find his idiocy remotely amusing

[Jhes]

Just a note, Alex doesn't make you invinciable.. you still take damage, albeit very little... and that whole "Death" thing still goes thru PD.. and i've seen it proc a lot when our DD get careless and stack on top of each other (usually sams who want to get thier Overwhelm effect in.)

Not sure where you're getting the "33%" thing either, i mean yeah, ADL can split up to 5 of himself, but its based on HP % at time of split, if you actually slow down before he hits 50% and let him split, you get 2 copies at most.

[Yinnyth]

Just a note, Alex doesn't make you invinciable.. you still take damage, albeit very little... and that whole "Death" thing still goes thru PD.. and i've seen it proc a lot when our DD get careless and stack on top of each other (usually sams who want to get thier Overwhelm effect in.)

Not sure where you're getting the "33%" thing either, i mean yeah, ADL can split up to 5 of himself, but its based on HP % at time of split, if you actually slow down before he hits 50% and let him split, you get 2 copies at most.

I don't mean to sound rude, but you seem to be a tiny bit misinformed. First of all, you're correct about PD not blocking 100% of damage as well as it not blocking death. As far as ADL is concerned though, it also doesn't block the dispel effect of oblivion smash.

Mostly, I'm just saying I believe you're incorrect about him being able to split into 5 forms. The number of forms he splits into seems to be based on the current HP of the "real" ADL. The closest estimations I can get on his split behaviors currently are: ~70% HP, capable of splitting into 2; under 40% HP, will split into 3; under 20% HP, will split into 4. We've had him split on us at 1% HP at least 3 times (dynamic implosion pwnt), and he only splits into 4.

[MarkovChain]

also love how pdif 101 has 0 likes seems like there like a ton of interest in that ton of work you've done too

/em look forward to you trying to prove the next thing noone cares about

I don't post to get "likes" which imo only Kids would care about. That thread is me completely solving pdif equations none of which were known until me. Not surprising considering the idiots that post on BG.

[MarkovChain]

I did over 30 samples and showed you 3. Why? Because going through the chat log and manually writing down the timestamps is a pain, and 3 was plenty to get the point across.

How would you measure stun duration when you can't get the chat log to tell you when stun wears off? Do you have some method which is not laughable?

Use your brain dude. The best think I can think of is eggtimer, you need to start when the animation of stun appears on the mob and stop when it wakes up. If you do this you will quickly realize that the maximum duration is always the same and there is no inbetween beside partial resist, it's not like paralyze or gravity.

[Yinnyth]

Use your brain dude. The best think I can think of is eggtimer, you need to start when the animation of stun appears on the mob and stop when it wakes up.

So wait... leaving the start time of the timer open to human error, AND the end time open to human error is the best you can think of? Operating an egg timer with one hand while operating a character with another? Yet my method which only left the end time open to human error is "laughable"? Tell you what: I'll fraps 30 samples when I get back from work and count the times of each from the movie so we don't have to deal with mistakes when I start/end the timer too early or late.

[Yinnyth]

First sample of 10 tests, all done in E.ronfaure on the level 0 bunnies right outside the gate. Recorded all 10 samples on Fraps, then went back over the video with VDub to find the exact frame when ramuh's staff went fully forward in the animation (my start time) and the exact frame where the bunny started turning (my end time). Technique was summon ramuh, immediately use shock squall, immediately dismiss ramuh before he could kill the bunny. Times I list are given in minute : second, and the seconds are accurate up to 3 decimal places, though keep in mind this was recorded at 30 fps, so it's technically only accurate up to 1/30th of a second.

0:14.933 >> 0:28.400 (13.467 seconds)
1:21.800 >> 1:45.167 (23.367 seconds)
2:25.700 >> 2:37.233 (11.533 seconds)
3:31.500 >> 3:43.633 (12.133 seconds)
4:35.233 >> 4:45.867 (10.634 seconds)
5:39.633 >> 5:54.733 (15.100 seconds)
6:46.867 >> 7:10.600 (23.733 seconds)
7:53.533 >> 8:04.033 (10.500 seconds)
8:58.433 >> 9:15.200 (16.767 seconds)
10:13.967 >> 10:35.567 (21.600 seconds)

None of these times are consistant with one another. Shock squall does not have a set duration.

The highest time I saw was 23.733 seconds, and out of 10 tries, there were only 3 times within 2.5 seconds of that duration. 3 lasted ~15 seconds, and 4 lasted ~10 seconds. A level 0 rabbit should have only a 5% resist rate against a level 99 player casting a status effect on it. That means if shock squall has a set duration, out of 10 samples, on average 9.5 of them should be at maximum duration. So shock squall does not have a set duration.

Summary: SHOCK SQUALL DOES NOT HAVE A SET DURATION

This is also very easy to test in a different way: go to a starter zone, pull a bunch of level 0 enemies (let's say 10 of them), use shock squall on all of them, then run back about 10 yalms and watch them. Stun will wear off one by one.

[MarkovChain]

Your 5% resist means nothing as SS it's not magic it a JA from an avatar, there is no reason for it not resist 95% of the time. For instance meva down from death blossom doesn't follow magic accuracy rules. There is a fixed chance for max duration then there are tiered duration coming drom resist. Your ridiculous amount of testing seems to show a max duration of around 22sec then 3/4 of this duration then 1/2 of this duration and it likely that you will see 1/4 of this duration too. Due to lag from the internet or computer as well as chatlog response time you can't get the exact duration (you also don't get the 'no longer stun message which means mob's delay may or may not be added into the duration and the exactness of the duration is unkonw up to a few seconds...).

quick test
20,13,20,11,18,18,11,11,21,10,7,16,19,11

20,18,18,21,19 are the same duration (~19 sec)
13,11,11,11,10,11 are the same duration (~11 sec)

7 would a quarter duration "resist" (+mobs delay?)
16 would be either a full duration or a half duration with delay added or possibly a quarter resist ?

You can increase the sample as much as you wish you will not see random values they will all be roughly those above.

[Yinnyth]

1. Since when do mobs 3/4 resist?
2. Since when does 7 count as one half of 16 or one quarter of 19?

You said it has a set duration. So what's its set duration?

[Zirael]

First sample of 10 tests, all done in E.ronfaure on the level 0 bunnies right outside the gate. Recorded all 10 samples on Fraps, then went back over the video with VDub to find the exact frame when ramuh's staff went fully forward in the animation (my start time) and the exact frame where the bunny started turning (my end time). Technique was summon ramuh, immediately use shock squall, immediately dismiss ramuh before he could kill the bunny. Times I list are given in minute : second, and the seconds are accurate up to 3 decimal places, though keep in mind this was recorded at 30 fps, so it's technically only accurate up to 1/30th of a second.

0:14.933 >> 0:28.400 (13.467 seconds)
1:21.800 >> 1:45.167 (23.367 seconds)
2:25.700 >> 2:37.233 (11.533 seconds)
3:31.500 >> 3:43.633 (12.133 seconds)
4:35.233 >> 4:45.867 (10.634 seconds)
5:39.633 >> 5:54.733 (15.100 seconds)
6:46.867 >> 7:10.600 (23.733 seconds)
7:53.533 >> 8:04.033 (10.500 seconds)
8:58.433 >> 9:15.200 (16.767 seconds)
10:13.967 >> 10:35.567 (21.600 seconds)

None of these times are consistant with one another. Shock squall does not have a set duration.

The highest time I saw was 23.733 seconds, and out of 10 tries, there were only 3 times within 2.5 seconds of that duration. 3 lasted ~15 seconds, and 4 lasted ~10 seconds. A level 0 rabbit should have only a 5% resist rate against a level 99 player casting a status effect on it. That means if shock squall has a set duration, out of 10 samples, on average 9.5 of them should be at maximum duration. So shock squall does not have a set duration.

Summary: SHOCK SQUALL DOES NOT HAVE A SET DURATION

This is also very easy to test in a different way: go to a starter zone, pull a bunch of level 0 enemies (let's say 10 of them), use shock squall on all of them, then run back about 10 yalms and watch them. Stun will wear off one by one.
Thanks for the testing, Yinnyth. Sample size might not be big, but it makes few things clear to me.
I like numbered facts more than words.:)

[MarkovChain]

1. Since when do mobs 3/4 resist?
2. Since when does 7 count as one half of 16 or one quarter of 19?

You said it has a set duration. So what's its set duration?

Read ? your method doesn't show accuraretely the duration of stun because stun doesn't wear off in the chatlog therefore you only see it when mob starts attacking you again. A more clever method would be to examine the mob's appearance and stop the timer when it moves agains while engaged. mobs delay is 240 so 4 seconds so what you measure is the real duration plus mob's delayor a fraction of mob's delay. You explained us that SS duration is totally random I explained you that it is set with tiers duration because you always see about the same duration. If the "7s" and "16s" are not artefact from lag then we can guess schock squall takes full/ 3/4 /half/ 1/4 duration. With the above numbers you can very well have

20s/15s/10s/5s and this would have to be checked against a video examining when stun wears off from looking at the mob's appearance.

summary : you're wrong I'm right. I postulate that on weak mobs about 50% are half duration and 50% full duration while the rest is marginal.

[Nala]

lol you are a fool.

[Yinnyth]

A more clever method would be to examine the mob's appearance and stop the timer when it moves agains while engaged.

Yeah, umm... that's exactly what I did, actually. I didn't say I waited for it to attack me, I waited for it to TURN. After shock squall lands, I run 7' away from the bunny directly behind it. That way as soon as shock squall wears off, it has to turn around and run to me. And since I have the video, and I get to examine it frame by frame, and I get 30 frames per second, so my start time and my end time are both accurate to within 1/30th of a second.

You have an egg timer which you can frantically push as soon as your eyes recognize an event, then your brain processes that event, then your brain tells your muscles to move in reaction, then your muscles move.

Examining frame by frame gives consistant results. Even if I choose the wrong moment of Ramuh's animation to count as my "start" point, I'm using that same start point every time, so I'm consistantly off by the same amount. Relying on twitch reflex is inconsistant because the human body reacts differently based on mood, nutrition, mental distraction, as well as many other things, most of which I can't even begin to understand or explain.


summary : you're wrong I'm right. I postulate that on weak mobs about 50% are half duration and 50% full duration while the rest is marginal.

I postulate that about 50% plus about 50% is about 100%, and beyond 100%, there is no "rest".

[Rezeak]

There is a fixed chance for max duration then there are tiered duration coming from resist.

Thing is it's not from resist which is what pple are try to hammer to you.

Yea it could be 10/15/20 but it's random unless too weak mobs can have some kinda of uber magic eva

either way you pretty much disproved yourself on the


yes 2 smn will stun lock adl.

cause if you get 1 10/15 sec duration stun then timers will be messed up.

[MarkovChain]

Hey idiot did you even fight adl ? If you ever count on recast timer to kill ADL you lose even before beginning. Two SMN lock it np after the first split which is what I said so give us us a break with your butthurt posts. If you ever take 45 sec to kill the next 2 clones you should consider leveling MNK instead of lolDRK?

[Yinnyth]

If the "7s" and "16s" are not artefact from lag then we can guess schock squall takes full/ 3/4 /half/ 1/4 duration.

No, we can't guess that. Because as someone already said earlier in this thread:

Shock squall has a fixed duration, tiered to full/half/quarter etc because this is FFXI, you don't have to prove it.
Here's the problem: it doesn't matter what you think, you ALWAYS think that you're right. You NEVER doubt yourself. Your brain will probably find some way to convince you that both statements you made are true, even though they contradict one another. Because in your mind, you are infallible. When someone says you're wrong, THEY'RE WRONG, DAMNED TROLLS!!lol. Then later on when you change your position, NO YOU WEREN'T RIGHT ABOUT ME BEING WRONG!LOL

So I ask you this: what are the possible durations for shock squall? Are you CERTAIN now that it's 20s, 15s, 10s, or 5s duration, and those are the ONLY possible durations?

[MarkovChain]

I'll answer when you prove us the duration is complketely random which you didn't. Also a silenced ramuh will be able to use SS so no relation to spells.

[Ashido]

Once upon a time , AV was un-beatable , before that , it was a ground king of two , this - IS - a MMO
It is DESIGNED to take up your time so you PAY money to get the item you want . It is -NOT- SE's fault you cant kill it.

As Manicora said you have to be good at your jobs , even then - crap happens - .

I mean the game has got so easy its not even funny. I wouldnt be shocked , well no ill do it now because some one will do it any how

" Let every player start out at 99 , max stats , max gil , one relic , mythic and empy of choice ( ALL BECAUSE THEY ARE TO HARD Q.Q) So we can enjoy the game !" - Future Noobmaster

SE has done well to make us all happy , but for us Older Players who enjoy a challenge , i Personally love ADL .

[Yinnyth]

I'll answer when you prove us the duration is complketely random which you didn't. Also a silenced ramuh will be able to use SS so no relation to spells.

Did you know:

Shock squall's duration is random within set parameters?

Shock squall's duration decreases when it has more than one target?

Shock squall's duration is unique for each enemy hit by it, not the same duration for everything in range?

Pchan thinks shock squall has only 4 possible durations?



If you answered "no" to any of the above questions, then you know less about shock squall than me. But you can still learn by watching this educational video! http://youtu.be/XwElp5Jxdr0

It's clear in this video that shock squall wears off at widely varying amounts of time. It is not a set duration which just gets resisted into 1/2 or 1/4 duration. There are uncounted amounts of time that shock squall can last. Is it finite? Sure, why not. I'm not willing to prove that it's infinitely random. But I'm willing to say Pchan is full of crap when he says there are only 3 or 4 possible durations for it.

Edit: Also, just so you know, I went over that video with VDub frame-by-frame. Each frame is 1/30 of a second, so if you want to know what second these happen at, divide by 30.

Shock squall lands: (estimated) 382

1st mandy begins to turn: 591
1st bee begins to advance: 608
2nd and 3rd mandies begin to turn: 668
4th and 5th mandies begin to turn: 714
6th mandy begins to advance: 759
2nd bee begins to turn: 814
7th mandy begins to turn: 863
8th mandy begins to turn and 3rd bee begins to advance: 913
9th mandy begins to turn: 998
10th mandy begins to turn: 1012
11th mandy begins to advance: 1050

Hrm... I get the feeling I'm mathing something wrong here... maybe only the lower boundary of shock squall duration is affected by the number of targets. Or maybe it really can last only 6 seconds.



EDIT edit: I could be completely wrong about more targets = lower duration. My testing is not complete enough to draw that conclusion yet. Still, I don't want to touch the original post because I want people to see that even though I'm more correct than Pchan, I STILL don't have ALL the answers.

[Monchat]

SE has done well to make us all happy , but for us Older Players who enjoy a challenge , i Personally love ADL .

ADL was a challenge at 90, but then nobody cared since the drops sucked. It's not anymore since its is on farmable status. There is no reason for any group to not kill more than one copy ( shoch squall @30%> auto-win, making it 50%+win rate). We have gotten maybe 50-75 marrows (lost count) in the last 3 months. Again. go @ Dynamis-Xarcabard entrance during JP prime, there are like 25 people preparing for ADL, as well as their 25 SMN/COR mules, waiting for the 2 alliances that are inside the zone, to exit. It's quite a popular event right now despite what the nayssayer/qqer in this thread have been trying to prove.

[MarkovChain]

Did you know:

Shock squall's duration is random within set parameters?

Shock squall's duration decreases when it has more than one target?

Shock squall's duration is unique for each enemy hit by it, not the same duration for everything in range?

Pchan thinks shock squall has only 4 possible durations?



If you answered "no" to any of the above questions, then you know less about shock squall than me. But you can still learn by watching this educational video! http://youtu.be/XwElp5Jxdr0

It's clear in this video that shock squall wears off at widely varying amounts of time. It is not a set duration which just gets resisted into 1/2 or 1/4 duration. There are uncounted amounts of time that shock squall can last. Is it finite? Sure, why not. I'm not willing to prove that it's infinitely random. But I'm willing to say Pchan is full of crap when he says there are only 3 or 4 possible durations for it.

Edit: Also, just so you know, I went over that video with VDub frame-by-frame. Each frame is 1/30 of a second, so if you want to know what second these happen at, divide by 30.

Shock squall lands: (estimated) 382

1st mandy begins to turn: 591
1st bee begins to advance: 608
2nd and 3rd mandies begin to turn: 668
4th and 5th mandies begin to turn: 714
6th mandy begins to advance: 759
2nd bee begins to turn: 814
7th mandy begins to turn: 863
8th mandy begins to turn and 3rd bee begins to advance: 913
9th mandy begins to turn: 998
10th mandy begins to turn: 1012
11th mandy begins to advance: 1050

Hrm... I get the feeling I'm mathing something wrong here... maybe only the lower boundary of shock squall duration is affected by the number of targets. Or maybe it really can last only 6 seconds.



EDIT edit: I could be completely wrong about more targets = lower duration. My testing is not complete enough to draw that conclusion yet. Still, I don't want to touch the original post because I want people to see that even though I'm more correct than Pchan, I STILL don't have ALL the answers.

In summary, you are a troll claiming shit without testing ? got it. Good luck in your battle to prove pchan is wrong on something he never claimed nor cares at all (multiple targets or w/e you did). I claimed SS has a set duration and it does up to partial resist values. No maybe one day you'll do more than 10 attempts lol.

[Yinnyth]

What do you mean "without testing"? I went farther than just testing. I recorded my test and had a friend upload it to youtube for everyone to see.

Watch the video. Notice how stun wears off at 11 different times for the mobs even though it started at the same time for all 14 mobs? That's because it has AT LEAST ELEVEN possible durations. And 14 is not nearly a large enough sample size to say that it only has 11.

As for proving you wrong, I did that a long time ago. The only reason I continue with this charade is because I find it entertaining watching how your brain justifies things. For example, the fact your brain can look at these 2 quotes:

Good luck in your battle to prove pchan is wrong on something he never claimed

Shock squall has a fixed duration, tiered to full/half/quarter etc because this is FFXI, you don't have to prove it.

And see nothing contradictory. It's amazing! You have no idea how fun it is to see logic and reason bounce off you and have no effect, then watch you attempt to wield logic yourself. It's cute.

Again, watch the video (http://youtu.be/XwElp5Jxdr0). It shows 11 different durations for shock squall, and there's probably even more possible durations than that as well. But I don't have to prove the exact number. I just have to prove there's more than 4, because your last claim was:


20s/15s/10s/5s and this would have to be checked against a video examining when stun wears off from looking at the mob's appearance.

4 possible durations.

[DarkViper]

Yeah cause what we really need if for this game to be easier D:

[Nala]

Dark, in what are you referencing and to whom are you addressing?

Edit: am i the only one who imagines P-chain playing FFXI in an overly elaborate and wholly gaudy clown suit j/w? (just realized my mental image KEFKA!)

[Yinnyth]

He's talking about the OP I think. The thread has changed significantly since then.

My best guess is that the recent activity of Pchan and me bashing one another pushed this thread onto the "Hot Topics" list where some people who had never seen it before finally checked it out. Then saw it had 35 pages and decided to just stop at the OP. Can't really say I'd blame someone for that. But they ARE missing out on some good entertainment.

[Rezeak]

Hey idiot did you even fight adl ? If you ever count on recast timer to kill ADL you lose even before beginning. Two SMN lock it np after the first split which is what I said so give us us a break with your butthurt posts. If you ever take 45 sec to kill the next 2 clones you should consider leveling MNK instead of lolDRK?

Yea we killed ADL in my ls alot and when you have 2hrs WARs and DRK wreck MNKs, tho MNK do have the advantage of not relying on there 2hr but we usally have 5 pple needing 2hrs back so it isn't a issue (SCH SMNx 1-2 DD x 3-4)

point i was making was the stun isn't a fixed because if it was SMN could stun lock ADL indefintly

Shock Squall > Shock squall > and Repeat since you could time the next shock squall as it would wear off meaning adl would never do an abilty

ofc you think stunning a mob X 2 means it's stun locked either way with the duration thing the way it is you can't time shock squall perfectly meaning like you said ADL can silence,kill or get shit through.


ADL was a challenge at 90, but then nobody cared since the drops sucked. It's not anymore since its is on farmable status. There is no reason for any group to not kill more than one copy ( shoch squall @30%> auto-win, making it 50%+win rate). We have gotten maybe 50-75 marrows (lost count) in the last 3 months. Again. go @ Dynamis-Xarcabard entrance during JP prime, there are like 25 people preparing for ADL, as well as their 25 SMN/COR mules, waiting for the 2 alliances that are inside the zone, to exit. It's quite a popular event right now despite what the nayssayer/qqer in this thread have been trying to prove.

Yea i can agree with alot of that my issue is the needing a SMNs 2hr in Dyna thats it's tho i guess it's more of a issue w/ how overpowered perfect defense is cause if you didn't need it ADL would prolly be a joke anyway.

This thread isn't so much QQ as pimpchan makes some silly claim like it's spilits at 30 secs EVERY time or 2 x SMN and it's stun locked bro and pple just calling him out on it and laughing at him when he rages trying to prove him self right.

[Monchat]

2handers also need sch to cap ehaste while a bard sufficies for mnks. The whole shock squall thing stated with someone claiming ADL cannot dublicate while stunned, when each time i fail is because he tripples while stunned.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

prove us the duration is complketely random

You're not a math major, are you?

[Yinnyth]

2handers also need sch to cap ehaste while a bard sufficies for mnks. The whole shock squall thing stated with someone claiming ADL cannot dublicate while stunned, when each time i fail is because he tripples while stunned.

1. BRD with SV is enough to cap anyone's magical haste regardless of what job they are. SCH with embrava and haste can boast the same thing. If you require both to cap haste, your enhancing and singing/wind/string skills are far too low.

2. How do you know he's stunned when he splits?

[Nala]

You're not a math major, are you?

Or an english major for that matter (not that i myself am the best)

[Zerich]

You're not a math major, are you?

nala beat me to the joke :(

[Rezeak]

@ lol400 enhancing
Embrava = 58 hp Regen, 5 Regain and 27.7% haste

w/ normal haste you'll have 42.7% haste which is just under cap

@ 417 enhancing skill you'll cap haste w/ Embrava + Haste

SCH can cap magic haste for all DDs i'd rather a SCH over a BRD cause it have heal and regen V and /BLM or DRK can stun every 9 seconds lol tho we don't have any emp bard in ls so no idea if that's better

[MarkovChain]

1. BRD with SV is enough to cap anyone's magical haste
Cool story bro, but that 1 ADL and my 6 man group does 6 a run.

[Yinnyth]

Cool story bro, but that 1 ADL and my 6 man group does 6 a run.

Are you saying that makes it not an option for your group? Well how about this then: With a fully upgraded gjallarhorn and AF3+2 march bonus, a brd/whm can cap anyone's magical haste without SV by simply giving double march and haste. A lesser bard could also cap your magic haste by using marcato. Neat stuff.

I wasn't saying your group should use soul voice marches. I was saying 2 handers do not need a sch in order to cap their haste (Monchat claimed they do). A bard can do it alone to anyone regardless of their job. Well, magical haste anyways. Equipment and JA haste are a different story.

Edit: Your "6 man group" still uses a 2hr ability for every kill you do. Killing 6 in one run would require either a 2hr restore or spare SMNs. Either way, it's more than 6 characters. We've done a kill with 5 people, but 2 of us were dualboxing. Do I get to call that a 5-man kill?

[Raksha]

Also the BRD could lock his/her 2hr on the ???, and do multiple ADLs

[Monchat]

no he can't.

[Raksha]

I do it as sch, don't see why BRD couldnt do it.

[MarkovChain]

Edit: Your "6 man group" still uses a 2hr ability for every kill you do. Killing 6 in one run would require either a 2hr restore or spare SMNs. Either way, it's more than 6 characters. We've done a kill with 5 people, but 2 of us were dualboxing. Do I get to call that a 5-man kill?

I see you are still butthurt about the video, but it's actually a 6-man kill unlike what you try to imply. If you want to impress us go 5-man it.

[Yinnyth]

I see you are still butthurt about the video, but it's actually a 6-man kill unlike what you try to imply. If you want to impress us go 5-man it.

No no, each individual kill you do really is 6-man (at least if we assume all of your kills look like the ones in your videos). But here's the deal: you said you 6-man 6 kills in one run. You actually require 11 characters to do that. You worded something deceptively in order to boost your ego.

I don't care what you call our kills. I'm just pointing out that you wouldn't let ME get away with a claim like the one you made. So why should I let YOU get away with it?

Dualboxed characters count if you use them, if they helped you get to that point, if they buffed you, etc. You use at least 5 spare characters, and without them, you wouldn't be able to kill more than 1 per run. Therefore you do not 6-man 6 kills in 1 run. You 11-man 6 kills in 1 run. You 6-man each individual kill. (I assume).

[MarkovChain]

So why should I let YOU get away with it?

I had no hopes. By definition trolls defend their bone until the other side gives up posting ?

[Yinnyth]

I had no hopes. By definition trolls defend their bone until the other side gives up posting ?

Trolls ignore logic and use phrases like


Cool story bro


I see you are still butthurt

Will I call you a troll for that? No. Trolls are stupid on purpose just to get other people to rage. There is no "on purpose" about the things you say, and you're not attempting to get people to rage.

But you are wrong about many things, and you say them with such certainty. I can't resist correcting you when you make mistakes like saying "ADL splits after 30 seconds no matter what" or "ramuh's shock squall has a set duration" or "everything I've said about ADL is true". With a few tweaks to the way you see things, I honestly think you could be a respected member of the ffxi community, but you need to accept that sometimes you're wrong and learn the difference between proof and intuition.

[Monchat]

I do it as sch, don't see why BRD couldnt do it.

the ??? vanish while you figth ADL. the fight lasts at least 1m30 + 1 min wait for the ??? to repop. Soulvoice is 3mn. not 10+. Of cours the magian spec should work here, but not the ???.

[MarkovChain]

I think you can stay locked even when you pop it because after I pause my buffs and ADL pops I have to hit escape to engage. In the case of BRD, and by extension SCH (lol regain, but hey the idea comes from BG it must be good ; oh and I forgot : 2 minuet > nothing), I'm not sure if that would be useful. It means the brd is useless for the fight, while he could log on his SMN mule for a free stun.

[Raksha]

the ??? vanish while you figth ADL. the fight lasts at least 1m30 + 1 min wait for the ??? to repop. Soulvoice is 3mn. not 10+. Of cours the magian spec should work here, but not the ???.

You stay locked even after the ??? disappears. Soul voice duration is the same as Tabula Rasa, so a bard should be able to multiple pops, just like I do as SCH.



I think you can stay locked even when you pop it because after I pause my buffs and ADL pops I have to hit escape to engage. In the case of BRD, and by extension SCH (lol regain, but hey the idea comes from BG it must be good ; oh and I forgot : 2 minuet > nothing), I'm not sure if that would be useful. It means the brd is useless for the fight, while he could log on his SMN mule for a free stun.

Sure you could log in his SMN mule, or you could have soul voice in every fight. Up to you I guess.

[Rezeak]

Ok say you have a COR(which you do to reset 2hrs) to do ADL then you can easily lock chaos roll on DDs w/ Red curry and berserk i'm pretty attack will be capped meaning minuet does very little/nothing

So really BRD vs SCH is

Capped haste vs Capped haste + 7 Regain + 141 Regen

If you don't have a COR (far enough your going in for 1 run) the 95/99 Emperyan BRD prolly is better.

[Natenn]

Why are people still fighting with lolpchan? He's just an arrogant noob who hides behind this forums "protection". No point debating further with the thick headedness of Quetz ppl.

[MarkovChain]

Ok say you have a COR(which you do to reset 2hrs) to do ADL then you can easily lock chaos roll on DDs w/ Red curry and berserk i'm pretty attack will be capped meaning minuet does very little/nothing

So really BRD vs SCH is

Capped haste vs Capped haste + 7 Regain + 141 Regen

If you don't have a COR (far enough your going in for 1 run) the 95/99 Emperyan BRD prolly is better.

Dude you'd need both COR and SCH to match BRD, suck less ; the less people the better. Regain is 100% useless on the fight.

[Dart]

420+ skill + haste spell doesn't cap 2 hand dd

news at 11

they can't be this stupid

we lock embrava and have our brd give us double minuets + 4 cor rolls and embrava. then we lock our dd and pop. unless it gets endeath move off we can do multiple back to back to back.

regen has helped us out on 3 of our kills so far. When we had to kill a 3rd and 4th clone (our MA really sucked at picking the right one lol)

[Yinnyth]

Dude you'd need both COR and SCH to match BRD, suck less ; the less people the better. Regain is 100% useless on the fight.

For your all-monk setup, perhaps. In my group's setup, we have a WAR who does 6-10k damage on resolution, so every bit of TP we can give her is good TP. We also don't pop PD until the first ADL is at around 70% HP, so the regen from embrava and regen V keeps us alive.

Since we have SCH capping our haste, I don't have to come as bard, so I come as cor instead. That way I can give buffs, deal damage, and attempt to restore 2hrs after the fight. This is what works best for our group because of the people we have and the jobs they have leveled. You need to learn that just because people don't spend months leveling and gearing different jobs in order to conform to your methods, it doesn't mean they need to "suck less".

Even your method is far from being perfect. If you could get one more DD in your group, your bard could SV, give songs to 5 DDs, drop from party, lock on the ???, and then you'd add your SMN, PD, pop, and fight just like before except you'd have soul voiced songs instead of normal songs, and you'd have one extra DD. Your bard does nothing after songs are up and is just a waste of a party space. But you're making use of what you have, just like every other group. Doesn't mean you suck.

[MarkovChain]

No because I'd lose one SMN.

[Raksha]

How important is it for the 2nd SMN to have PD? He could be in a separate party.

[MarkovChain]

It can stun the second copy.

[Rezeak]

420+ skill + haste spell doesn't cap 2 hand dd

news at 11

they can't be this stupid


@ 417 enhancing skill you'll cap haste w/ Embrava + Haste

SCH can cap magic haste for all DDs

just to help ya read the bit you missed.


Dude you'd need both COR and SCH to match BRD, suck less ; the less people the better. Regain is 100% useless on the fight.

COR isn't needed to be played on the fight so can be someone playing a second char or w/e kinda the same Logic of your BRD switch to SMN blah blah (also COR has main use to reset 2hrs as well)

Anyway Regain is useful unless your saying Victory Smite is gimp and i'm sure every 2-3 ticks you get you'll get 1 attack round off you build and ofc you get more than 2-3 ticks when your back is turned for SMNing or if you every get terrorized.

now i'm not saying it's amazing but it's at least 5-10% useful even on MNK lol.

[Yinnyth]

No because I'd lose one SMN.

I acknowleged this fact when I said:

But you're making use of what you have, just like every other group.

Yes, I did say your group has room to improve (if you add another DD to your group is what I was trying to imply). But I'm saying you don't suck because you're lacking that 5th DD. Just like how every other person who does ADL doesn't suck because they don't have exactly the same number of players, the same number of dualboxed characters, the exact same jobs and the exact same gear as your group. So stop saying they suck, they're making use of what they have just like you.

[MarkovChain]

No my group has the perfect setup. No group of 6 or 7 can kill the second clone reliably without a second stun, also rezeak clearly doesn't kill ADL if he thinks regain is useful.

[Rezeak]

MarkovChain clearly doesn't kill ADL if he thinks tp is useless lol honestly it's not hard to kill ADL key is embrava, stuns and perfect defense.

Either way prove regain adds 0 DMG then it's a 100% useless bearing in mind these small facts

Victory smite
Delivers a fourfold attack. Chance of critical hit varies with TP.

Resolution
Delivers a fivefold attack. Damage varies with TP

Also say you miss one hit mnk regain won't recover that missed attack so u don't lose attack 1 round ?

The 21-28 Tp is enough to take 1 attack round of your build when you can't get tp because of it spliting.

I'm just saying it's not 100% useless, it's not vital but it definilty helps your kill speed if only by 5%

inb4 another random insult cause pchan can't agrue or understand basic concepts of tp = WS = DMG

[MarkovChain]

In order to kill ADl you limit your damage, even as 6, that's why you don't WS spam therefore regain is useless and your SCH is just N+1. I do 3 WS per fight, and only 3, getting those TP earlier will not help me because for the first half it would mean I would waste a popset by having it triple clone, and because for the second half you hold TP and ws under 20% to kill it instantly - doing otherwise is playing with fire as you take the risk for it to wake up and wreck you. But hey I didn't expect much from someone that made a QQ thread about how krequiring 18 ppd to kill ADL is too hard.

[Yinnyth]

You limit your damage on the whole fight? We sure don't. As soon as he splits, all bets are off and the WS spam becomes extremely useful. Your technique of saving TP until 20% would be useful for avoiding dynamic implosion, but he gains access to tera slash earlier in the fight. We even had a really unlucky one where one of the clones used violent rupture pushing all our DD into the same corner, and the other one immediately used tera slash, killing 2 of our DD. 5 seconds later, both used tera slash killing off everyone except the sch. Limiting your damage after the split is foolish. Even my group of 3 DDs pumps out enough damage to kill the first clone and start in on the second clone before shock squall wears off, and we don't have to save up TP to do that.

It's a zerg. If you have maxed haste and embrava, you don't need to hold your TP to hope you'll have it at 20%, you'll have TP by the time shock squall hits. You'll have TP several times before shock squall wears off. Which is a good thing if you kill the wrong clone. TP is a good thing.

[MarkovChain]

Tera slash rarely happens prior to 20%, and by doing so I can kill two copies. Lestly ragain is unlikely to give one free ws all it does it tp faster so stop mixing everything. Embrava doesnt allow for "TP spam" which is weird seing a 3-4 Victory smites are taking 30% of it's damage for us.

[Yinnyth]

You're saying 3-4 victory smites do 30% of his HP? 30% of 100,000 is 30k damage. 30,000/3= 10,000. 30,000/4= 7,500. So you're claiming your smites do roughly 7,500-10,000 damage. That's a helluva smite to do post-nerf. Not saying it's impossible, but... damn. If you had 15 people do 7,500 damage WSs, you'd overkill him before he even had a chance to split.

Hrm... makes me wonder if I could find an army of resolution DRKs and WARs...

[Raksha]

He probably means 3 or 4 VS per mnk.

[Monchat]

No. 3-4 victory smites ( + the corresponding light skill chains and melee attacks : when a mnk WS the other is meleeing) take easilly 30%. I aggreee with him. THe regain on embrava is irrelevant in a zerg in genera, especially for 2-handers who get tp so fast.

[MarkovChain]

You're saying 3-4 victory smites do 30% of his HP? 30% of 100,000 is 30k damage. 30,000/3= 10,000. 30,000/4= 7,500. So you're claiming your smites do roughly 7,500-10,000 damage. That's a helluva smite to do post-nerf. Not saying it's impossible, but... damn. If you had 15 people do 7,500 damage WSs, you'd overkill him before he even had a chance to split.

Hrm... makes me wonder if I could find an army of resolution DRKs and WARs...

4 VS, some if not all are mirrored in a Light SC, and a huge amount of DOT since not all monk ws at the same time and since SS lasts a good 10 sec minimum. I can understand that drk & war have no clue what dot means though. I'll remind you that if monks were 2 handed DDs they would have 300 ish DMG on their weapons with less delay.

[Rezeak]

THe regain on embrava is irrelevant in a zerg in genera, especially for 2-handers who get tp so fast.

Except 7 tp alone allows WAR and DRK to easily 6 hit w/ Ragnarok w/almost no gear sacrifices....

Either way like i said you can't prove regain has 0 effect even overflow adds DMG to WSes

I mean it comes down to this if you have a SCH and why not have as much Regain as you can.

anyway i'm sure you won't drop this and it but my point is still valid that saying something is 100% useless when it clearly has some effect (if even a small effect) is why pchan/mdkuser is considered an unreible source and why pple ask him to post Vids and stuff because there so unclear.

[Yinnyth]

4 VS, some if not all are mirrored in a Light SC, and a huge amount of DOT since not all monk ws at the same time and since SS lasts a good 10 sec minimum. I can understand that drk & war have no clue what dot means though. I'll remind you that if monks were 2 handed DDs they would have 300 ish DMG on their weapons with less delay.

First of all, if you do 4 smites, 2 light SCs are the most you can get and that's if you delay between smites. That would still require 5k damage per smite assuming your light SCs go unresisted.

Second of all, you claimed you save up TP to finish him off quickly and used that as an argument against regain. If you're delaying your smites enough so they all become part of a SC, you could actually make very good use of embrava. You wouldn't have to save up TP to do 2 SCs at the very end, you could keep doing SCs the whole darned fight.

Third of all, a level 99 mnk with full h2h merits and no further h2h or martial arts gear has 48 base damage and 280 base delay. Add on a level 99 verethragna (+42 dmg, +51 delay) and you're 90 base damage and 331 delay. With enough h2h gear, you could boost that base damage up 2 points though, I suppose, so I'll give you 92dmg/331 delay. Also have to keep in mind that monks get to attack twice every attack round (sometimes 3 times), but that doesn't double your base damage. Even if we did let you just double it, you're still looking at only 184 which isn't 300ish.

Fourth of all, we've already been over this with shock squall. 10 seconds is not the minimum duration. Even little level 0 mandies had it last for less than 10 seconds several times.

[MarkovChain]

You wouldn't have to save up TP to do 2 SCs at the very end, you could keep doing SCs the whole darned fight.
last I checked embrava doesn't give 300 tp at once so you are wrong (as always)

[Celeana]

Wow Pimpchan...

You really love to put down others while looking like a complete dumbass at the same time. I'm glad not every french players are like you.

Inb4 ban ^^

[Demon6324236]

last I checked embrava doesn't give 300 tp at once

No, not 300%TP at once, it gives you more TP more quickly, meaning you can WS again faster and continue SCing after the last one finishes. Unless I missed it at some point where he said "Embrava gives you 300TP" then by all means, yes, your correct. From what I understand hes saying you can continue SCing with 4 MNKs when your getting an extra 7TP a tick, that seems fairly reasonable seeing as the TP gain your talking about with the time it takes for the other 3 MNKs to WS. I'm sure in the time it takes the 3 MNKs to WS the 4th MNK will have attacked enough (especially with regain) to WS again, continuing with the next MNK, and so on, so that your constantly able to SC.


you could keep doing SCs the whole darned fight.

Yeah, looks like what I said, MNK1 gets the TP to SC with MNK2 by the time MNK3 & MNK4 have finished theirs, sounds right to me!


you are wrong (as always)

He showed a clear example of you being wrong, so as for him being wrong always, no, you need to check your opponents previous posts before you even attempt to argue back. In this case you simply make yourself look like a fool who doesn't even pay attention to what is said, you read half a post, think you know what is said, and rant off how your omnipotent and must be correct while everyone else is wrong every time they disagree with you.


No my group has the perfect setup.

Wow, perfect? No room at all for improvement? :confused: Last I checked perfect meant the absolute best, so you have afterglows? Because this would be best, obviously not "perfect"... everything can be improved, you simply refuse to think anyone could possibly do this better than you...



The sad thing is that while you do this and people argue with you in return, they probably do it just to laugh at your ignorance, a nice bit of humor for them to start the day watching someone try to say something obviously wrong, is correct.

People keep telling you, be smarter about how you talk to people, and you would get respect, but you don't listen to them, and till then people will do this with you every time, because you make them, and because you refuse to see the truth. When someone says something is wrong, prove them its right. Prove, means have proof, if you cannot do this, do not try to change their mind, they have no reason to change their position on the matter, you have given them no reason to.

And please, don't try to say...
because this is FFXI, you don't have to prove it. because that just means I can say... I can solo ADL on RDM... and ya know what, its true, because this is FFXI, I don't have to prove it! But no, you do have to prove it, because its how the world works, if we just took everyones word for it then we would have chaos, so we want proof, what makes you right, and Yinnyth wrong? When you can answer this, WITH PROOF, you might be able to be correct, till then, you will be wrong because of your lack of evidence to support your words.



Yes, I know thats a wall, oh well, alot needs to be said about this pointless talk/argument...

[MarkovChain]

My god a wall of text to say nothing. For your info he is wrong because you and him can't read. The only time you skillchain is when you WS obvisouly which is at start (30% off right away), then slightly above 50%, then under 20%. The problem is you and teambutthurt don't read what I say, and that you don't fight adl. It's not a zerg fight because you don't go all out, aka
you don't spam ws constantly at any point of the fight (unless you are on a gimp DD like drk I guess ?). Even is that was the case, embrava would not affect the ability to constantly skillchain, because you already do it w/o due to capped delay.... You two are good at trolling and bad at thinking. Come back when you have 99 marrows ¿

[Demon6324236]

I wouldn't waste my time getting 99 marrows, rather fuel a few relics in my ls or something useful than to make an afterglow which I honestly see as pointless for the stupidly high cost, it seems more for show than for reason, but thats neither here nor there.

I was pointing out why his statement was correct, it would allow for more TP when SCing, if you don't do it the whole fight then so be it, my point still stands that he is correct in the fact it helps TP build. And the rest of what I said still stands as well, you say one thing is pointless in my entire wall and yet, you think the entire thing is pointless, which is pointless in and of itself.

Lets go to part 2, he is always wrong. Weird, he was right and proved it, so that part of my wall was wrong? Or for nothing? I'm trying to prove to you a point, you say your right, give proof, when you do it you can be right and people will not fight with you, when your ignorant to the fact people want proof before they will agree with you, then you subject yourself to wasting time on this form of pointless arguing. If your truly so great, then I would think you have better things to do then be foolish and argue with other members of the community as you do. Simply give people proof and move on, then you and everyone else get more done rather than run over the same subject over and over again as you do.

Your typical post seems to be this...


Blah blah blah, I'm right, your wrong, because apparently even if you do fight ADL, you don't actually fight ADL, you make things up as if you fight ADL, but clearly do not because what I say is obviously right, and you disagree. Also I must be correct, blah has a set timer, blah will happen at a certain point in the fight, blah blah blah I'm still right, you don't have what I have done, so I must be correct!

Sorry if this offends you, but seriously, look at the tags for this thread, people have no respect for you because this is how you act, and so they will never stop fighting with you, either let it go or be nicer. If your right, they have bad info, their loss. Be nicer, give proof, and act civil, then you might get somewhere with this, and people will listen. You seem to care people have accurate info, that or you just want to argue for no reason, if you want people to have this info then prove it before you state it as fact, for without proof it isn't shown as fact and people will dispute it if they see otherwise! If your doing it just to argue, then yes, your a troll, and go away because your a pest. I don't know, and honestly don't care, because in simple words, you annoy me, and you need to change to being worth having around. Because as it stands, you seem worthless to the community other than a passing joke.

Dont bother replying if your only going to respond to 1 part of a post btw, just makes you look even more like your ignoring most of it. Which makes it pointless to talk to you because you only will ignore the parts you dont like and reply to the parts you think you can argue with.

[Yinnyth]

last I checked embrava doesn't give 300 tp at once so you are wrong (as always)

Neither does primeval brew, but it gives enough regain for one person to constantly self-SC.

WS from MNK1 >> wait 5 seconds >> WS from MNK2 >> light SC + wait 5 seconds >> WS from MNK3 >> wait 5 seconds >> WS from MNK4 >> light SC + wait 5 seconds >> WS from MNK1 >> repeat. This gives 20 seconds between one person's first and second WSs. With maxed haste and embrava, the average DD should get 100TP in just under 10 seconds. That is plenty of time to keep the SCs going.


Dont bother replying if your only going to respond to 1 part of a post btw
Unfortunately, I tend to do the same thing. If I tried to reply to every last detail in a post, I'd wind up creating a wall of text even larger than the original post and almost no one would read it. Personally, I read the whole post and try my best to understand what the poster was really trying to say before responding. Pchan, however...

Well, this is him responding to a post I made in which I actually linked a video of my test for anyone to scrutinize. He even quoted my entire post in the response, including the link to my video, and the breakdown of my test results:

In summary, you are a troll claiming shit without testing ? got it. Good luck in your battle to prove pchan is wrong on something he never claimed nor cares at all (multiple targets or w/e you did). I claimed SS has a set duration and it does up to partial resist values. No maybe one day you'll do more than 10 attempts lol.

Yes, that's right. He quoted my test results, then opened his post by saying I claim [explitive] without testing. And this is why I find him so entertaining. He actually accuses me of not reading and/or understanding what he is trying to say:

For your info he is wrong because you and him can't read.

[Demon6324236]

Oh I know, I have been reading this for about 20 pages or so I think, thats why I try to help him understand whats wrong with what hes doing, but its like there is this magic bubble around him that shields out fact, and keeps his ideas as the truth. As for the responding.

I don't mean to say I want you to make a wall like I do btw, I know its 1 reason why I tend not to post on forums often, I rather just watch and see what people say for the sake of info. But like you said, he ignores the point of things, and then tries to call you out on something that most the time isn't even the case, and was a minor part of what you said anyways. My post wasn't to say his plan needs Embrava, I was saying for what you were talking about, you were correct, but he runs off somewhere saying were wrong, because he doesn't WS spam on ADL, which had nothing to do with the fact that Embrava, and furthermore, regain, help TP... My main point of my entire post even is the fact of how he acts which promotes these arguments, and yet, continues!

[MarkovChain]

I was pointing out why his statement was correct, it would allow for more TP when SCing, if you don't do it the whole fight then so be it, my point still stands that he is correct in the fact it helps TP build.

No? crit% only work by tiers of 100/200/300.

I didn't contest that it makes build tp faster but that it makes you do more ws (estimation : 3 sec for the whole fight) at the cost of :

---- 2x minuets
---- one less stun to kill the second copy.

facepalm ?


people have no respect for you because this is how you act, and so they will never stop fighting with you

Thanks for explaining us you are a troll then ?

[Yinnyth]

I didn't contest that it makes build tp faster but that it makes you do more ws (estimation : 3 sec for the whole fight) at the cost of :

---- 2x minuets
---- one less stun to kill the second copy.

facepalm ?

I'm going to assume you mean you lose EITHER 2x minuets OR stun to bring embrava along with your group, not that you lose both. Find one post. One post anywhere in these 40 pages of posts where someone tells you your group needs embrava, and that it's better than your daurdabla bard. You have on several ocassions called embrava worthless, which we contest. We're not saying YOU need embrava, and YOU should have one of your people change jobs. We're saying WE make very good use of embrava, and that it is in fact a large part of the reason we're even capable of winning.

Everytime you say something like:

Regain is 100% useless on the fight.

Someone's gonna pop out of the woodworks and be like "NUH UH!" My group doesn't have a good way to work a bard into our setup when we kill ADL, but that doesn't mean I should go onto forums and claim that march is 100% useless.

[Demon6324236]

I'm a troll for explaining to you that the way you word things is why you are fought with? No... I'm doing just what I said, telling you why people fight with you, this would have stopped a good 5-10 pages ago if you were reasonable in listening to others. The entire argument about SS would have been a page or 2, not 10, talk of Embrava's regain being 100% useless would have ended fast because in fact, what could have been said is "Embrava is not more effective in how I choose to fight ADL. However in your strat I suppose it maybe more effective, but I do not know because I do not fight it the same way as you." Do you know what you do instead? Let me show you a few examples...


In order to kill ADL you limit your damage, even as 6, that's why you don't WS spam therefore regain is useless and your SCH is just N+1. I do 3 WS per fight, and only 3, getting those TP earlier will not help me

Doesn't help you, does not mean doesn't help anyone fighting ADL, what if I disagree? My strat uses Embrava and needs it or it at least helps out. :)


Dude you'd need both COR and SCH to match BRD, suck less ; the less people the better. Regain is 100% useless on the fight.

Well in my strat it isn't useless, not sure why you can't see that. :( (Next quote doesn't exactly match up the same way, but just focus on this little bold part...)


No my group has the perfect setup. No group of 6 or 7 can kill the second clone reliably without a second stun, also rezeak clearly doesn't kill ADL if he thinks regain is useful.

Not only do you think you have the perfect setup, but apparently anyone who thinks regain is useful, doesn't kill ADL. I think what you should have said is "Not in my group. My group of 6 or 7 can kill the second clone reliably with a second stun, also rezeak clearly doesn't use the same strat as I do to kill ADL if regain is useful to him." This, would have stopped alot of fighting, right there, in the change of 1 post I'm sure, because rather than saying your best, your perfect, and regain is useless in what is assumed to be all fights against ADL. You say your strat is rather good, but it doesn't need the use of regain because of how you fight it. Tada alot of fighting prevented by the "troll" making a change to your post... :confused:

[MarkovChain]

I'm going to assume you mean you lose EITHER 2x minuets OR stun to bring embrava along with your group, not that you lose both.

You lose both thanks for proving you don't read.

SCH option : wasted character for the fight, uselesss 100%, doesn't bring minuet, doesn't bring the second stun, only offers a few ticks of TP aka allows to TP a a few seconds earlier, therefore doesn't make the kill safer, and more importantly doesn't allow multiple clone kills (with 6 at least, otherwise it's irrelevant)
BRD option : 2xminuet, the BRd can log on a SMN for a second stun as well as an additionnal pop (+1 pop at least per run, before counting COR resets).

The difference is clear. My option adds probably ~2 pops per run, and the possibility to kill the second clone most of the time. I told you I'm better than you.

[Demon6324236]

Well if you want to look at it one way, the SCH can probably goto SMN just as much as a BRD can, I don't really see why not, and also Embrava & Haste can both be cast outside of the party unlike BRD, so they can be left out of the party for more room even, also last I knew, regen made things safer. And again you add something pointless to your response "I told you I'm better than you." why add this? We never said we were better that I recall... Simply that what you call "uselesss 100%" isn't worthless to us, it works for us, we like it, you don't use it for your strat so be it, didn't say were better because we use Embrava. And also that your "facts" are wrong on occasion like with SS, I didn't say I'm better than you at all.

[Monchat]

regen does nothing on this fight. 2500 HP, you have perfect defense.

[Rezeak]

You lose both thanks for proving you don't read.

SCH option : wasted character for the fight, uselesss 100%, doesn't bring minuet, doesn't bring the second stun

No SCH can't aoe stun..... o wait Manifestation + Celerity + stun = an AoE stun u can use every 18 secs o and it can do it from 20 dist

btw SCH can log on to a SMN or COR or w/e easily.... tho it's retarded to log your BRD or SCH but rather lock there 2hr on the ??? just saying thats all.

Anyway point still stands if you have a COR, SCH > BRD and BRD is only better when you have empeyan harp when u don't have a COR tho personally i have found regen far more useful.

[MarkovChain]

No SCH can't aoe stun..... o wait Manifestation + Celerity + stun.

What an idot really. Are you forgetting the fact that SCH is bound to stay out of PT/ally the whole fight ¿ Totally confirming that you don't kill ADL or attempt to follow the discussion.

[MarkovChain]

so they can be left out of the party for more room even, also last I knew, regen made things safer.

Ah k so if someone replaces the sch's spot then the BRDs setups are allowed to go with 3 smn stunning making the wiining rate 100% on 3 copies ? So for all your lol-SCh setup barely match my own BRD-start and you have to ADD one character lolz

[Yinnyth]

You lose both thanks for proving you don't read.

SCH option : wasted character for the fight, uselesss 100%, doesn't bring minuet, doesn't bring the second stun, only offers a few ticks of TP aka allows to TP a a few seconds earlier, therefore doesn't make the kill safer, and more importantly doesn't allow multiple clone kills (with 6 at least, otherwise it's irrelevant)
BRD option : 2xminuet, the BRd can log on a SMN for a second stun as well as an additionnal pop (+1 pop at least per run, before counting COR resets).

The difference is clear. My option adds probably ~2 pops per run, and the possibility to kill the second clone most of the time. I told you I'm better than you.

Why can't sch log on a second smn? Are you assuming that the sch and smn are on the same account instead of dualboxed? That sounds like a problem with your particular setup, not a problem with the idea of a sch being the source of your haste. You need to learn the difference between "impossible for my group to do effectively" and "impossible for ANY group to do effectively".

You're also assuming that EVERY bard has a level 99 daurdabla. In most groups, the bard just gives double march, or one march one minuet if they soulvoice. If it's double march vs. embrava? Embrava wins. Just because YOUR group has certain things doesn't mean EVERY group has those things too. This is why we're not arguing that YOUR group needs embrava. All we're saying is that when you say it's worthless, you're wrong.

[Demon6324236]

No SCH can't aoe stun..... o wait Manifestation + Celerity + stun = an AoE stun u can use every 18 secs o and it can do it from 20 dist

btw SCH can log on to a SMN or COR or w/e easily.... tho it's retarded to log your BRD or SCH but rather lock there 2hr on the ??? just saying thats all.

Anyway point still stands if you have a COR, SCH > BRD and BRD is only better when you have empeyan harp when u don't have a COR tho personally i have found regen far more useful.

Eh only flaw to this is SCH would have to have a sub without Haste, to cast Stun, which from what I understand is needed to cap haste with Embrava, so ya win some ya lose some.

Also as to regen being worthless, PD doesn't make you invincible, close, but not the same, some damage gets through, as such, regen covers up the small damage you take, not saying its needed by any means, but it does do something.

[Yinnyth]

regen does nothing on this fight. 2500 HP, you have perfect defense.

Again, regen does nothing FOR YOU on this fight. That doesn't mean it does nothing FOR OTHER PEOPLE. The way we do our fights, we don't pop PD until ADL is around 70% HP. What keeps us alive until then? Yeah, regen. Since ADL has nothing but crappy WSs until he gets lower on HP, the only thing we really need to worry about is a stray sleepga or breakga. And since we're holding back our damage before the split, it seems pointless to waste 20 seconds of PD's duration by using it before the pop.

Learn the difference between "useless for me" and "useless for you".

[MarkovChain]

Why can't sch log on a second smn? .

Because it has to lock its 2Hour of fail at the ¿¿¿

[Demon6324236]

Ah k so if someone replaces the sch's spot then the BRDs setups are allowed to go with 3 smn stunning making the wiining rate 100% on 3 copies ? So for all your lol-SCh setup barely match my own BRD-start and you have to ADD one character lolz

You miss my point, everything a SCH needs to do, can be done from outside of the party if you want where as a BRD must be in the party to perform its songs, very little advantage in such a thing but I was simply pointing it out. Honestly I figure both BRD & SCH are droped and someone added in most cases, but BRD has to be in the party as someone to buff them, SCH you can just throw in a party by themself in the alliance or have stand outside, and they can perform just as well.

[Yinnyth]

Because it has to lock its 2Hour of fail at the ¿¿¿

For your group. Because your group's bard lacks the ability to dualbox his smn. I am our group's SCH, and our group's COR at the same time. If I leveled SMN, I could lock the SCH on the ??? and still use the SMN.

You're still making arguments against SCH (as a whole, for everyone) based on the reasons you (your group) can't make it work.

[Alkimi]

This argument is getting ridiculous. All you need to kill ADL is 4 or more good DDs with capped magical haste, half a brain, Perfect Defence and a couple of stuns if you want be safe.

There's plenty of ways to achieve this be they BRD, COR, SCH whatever. Bar getting unlucky with Tera Slash and Violent Rupture it's not a difficult mob. We haven't wiped to ADL in over 2 months and usually have 4 DDs (DRK WAR SAM MNK, any of these does the job for us) CORx2 SCHx2 then as many SMNs as we can get and hope for wild card success for more pops. Although Wild Card has been a dick to us recently.

[Demon6324236]

I thought it was obviously ridiculous a good 10 pages or so ago, half of a 40 page thread is off topic arguing over pointless things. But even if it is, that doesn't stop people from continuing~...

[Yinnyth]

This argument has been ridiculous for a while. For those of you who are just now tuning in to this thread, it's devolved into my own personal source of entertainment, and I apologize for that, but I don't want to give it up.

[Demon6324236]

Yeah, not so much that I'm trying to end your fun or anything, but I'm trying to make a certain someone see thats what this has become, and that they are acting very... foolish it seems.

[hiko]

Because it has to lock its 2Hour of fail at the ¿¿¿
he can do like you do for your multi PD: have 5sch leveled on mules and log a new one for each fight!

[Monchat]

and have only one perfect defense.

[hiko]

and have only one perfect defense.
no, the sch have 5 sch mule, the smn have 5smn mule....

[MarkovChain]

so much for an inferior strategy (no brd still) which require 2x more chars a,d stil doesn't offer 2x stun unless your SCH also uses 5 smn on mules lol?

[hiko]

so much for an inferior strategy (no brd still) which require 2x more chars a,d stil doesn't offer 2x stun unless your SCH also uses 5 smn on mules lol?

LOL. when your only way to do stuff is to pay 6account and as much mules split between 2player.....

if sch doesnt lock, it can stun,

[Monchat]

so? anything can stun adl. shock squall is the best due to the long duration. who cares about a 1second stun.

[Dart]

just to help ya read the bit you missed.



COR isn't needed to be played on the fight so can be someone playing a second char or w/e kinda the same Logic of your BRD switch to SMN blah blah (also COR has main use to reset 2hrs as well)

Anyway Regain is useful unless your saying Victory Smite is gimp and i'm sure every 2-3 ticks you get you'll get 1 attack round off you build and ofc you get more than 2-3 ticks when your back is turned for SMNing or if you every get terrorized.

now i'm not saying it's amazing but it's at least 5-10% useful even on MNK lol.

maybe its because its late but not sure if that was meant for me or both of us for pchan.