New RDM spell idea

[Ophannus]

There's been a file in the FFXI database for over 5 years, it's called "Faith". Implement this spell for RDM only as a Divine Magic spell that's single-target and increases "Potency of Cure effect received +X%".
Make it cap at around 15-25% based on Divine Skill. This will give RDM the ability to have a stronger Cure IV. We really need stronger healing, as it's blatantly ridiculous that a Dragoon's "Healing Breath IV" heals players for 800-900+ for 0 MP and 0 hate but we've not had a stronger Cure spell implemented for RDM since 48 and only heals for ~580ish with good Cure Potency gear.

As an added bonus, give this spell to PLD as well.

[Seriha]

No thanks.

I'd rather have Bravery and Faith as ATK and MATK buffs as a rough correlation to their appearance as stats in FFT.

[Greatguardian]

I'd like this.

A PDT-15/25% Spell would also go a long way. Perhaps some of the more obscure debuffs like Critical Hit Evasion Down and Critical Hit Defense Down as well. Magic Defense Down and Magic Evasion Down? Couldn't hurt.

[cidbahamut]

I don't like the idea of a Cure Potency received spell. It's one more buff to maintain that really just treats the symptoms of a problem rather than the cause.

[tyrantsyn]

Rather see a JT. Tho I am curious about the spell. Any clue's to what the effect's of it is?

[Tashan]

I like this idea but also agree with Seriha for not calling it Faith.

For those who know, Faith/Magick and Bravery/Valor were staple buff spells in previous FF's augmenting Magical and Physical power respectively. They were so good that I could easily run a full party of RDM's in several FF games and succeed.

I genuinely wouldn't mind RDM getting Faith and Bravery. Or the OP's idea.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I like this idea but also agree with Seriha for not calling it Faith.

For those who know, Faith/Magick and Bravery/Valor were staple buff spells in previous FF's augmenting Magical and Physical power respectively. They were so good that I could easily run a full party of RDM's in several FF games and succeed.

I genuinely wouldn't mind RDM getting Faith and Bravery. Or the OP's idea.

Or both.

A spell that increases "Cure" Effect received only exists on COR now, so why not also add it do RDM as well, at say 15%.

Faith and Bravery should have been in RDM arsenal ages ago, it's the one job that the spells fit. The job that can go from one mode to another.

[Seriha]

Are some of you guys that desperate to relive the pink mage days? Because without drastic attention elsewhere, this is pretty much a step in that direction.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Are some of you guys that desperate to relive the pink mage days? Because without drastic attention elsewhere, this is pretty much a step in that direction.

It benefits the enhancing side rather than healing. It can help healing yes, but it aid's enhancing more.

Any enhancing magic increase that isn't self-cast will help reactivate pink-mage, so what should we get none then?
The healing magic increase could do it also, so should they not add that as well?

[Seriha]

I'm not wild about it, but that's more of general fix. Problem is, let's say when they apply the adjustment and with our Healing Skill and MND, a 750 Cure IV is possible. Pair this with the above 15% and that cure becomes 862 HP. Even in Abyssea, that's way more than enough to get by on things you're not feeding copious amounts of TP to, and longevity gets even better if you're fighting something our enfeebles can stick on.

The moment people realize RDM is "good enough" on its own to occupy main healer slot again, that's it. Doesn't matter if WHM does it better as we've been there before. Additionally, the idea loses its luster in harder content where maybe you're put in a tank party with a WHM, too. Curative overkill. If the subsequent proposition is to allow it be castable on the entire alliance or any player in general, enter yet another cycle short of multiple RDMs. Otherwise, yeah, enjoy healing the DD parties if temp items aren't an option and someone decides another DD would be more beneficial than another support.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I fail to see what's wrong about a mage job giving support but apparently that's just me. Rdm still isn't going to be a main healer even with a 900 Single target cure. It isn't.

[Seriha]

It's a problem when it comes at the expense of the job's versatility. Were the idea more like a RDM samba-esque effect where anyone hitting the same mob they are gets the 15% benefit, rock on, but as a standalone spell, eh... Keep in mind I'm speaking to try and offer incentives to that concept of versatility, not seesaw things one way just because we happen to have "mage" in our job name.

[Neisan_Quetz]

As a cure potency received spell, I also agree that isn't going to help Rdm, as Cid remarks it's just a bandaid that doesn't fix the core problem (with healing). In terms of enhancing, Rdm has highest base skill, but any mage can equal that with /Sch arts, and has enough gear to either match Rdm or get fairly high enough.

I'm with GG, I'd prefer a new method of debilitating the mob that isn't going to be resisted by anything since CoP. As for a DT esque spell, I'd only agree if it isn't applied to cap (call that broken if you wish, but not breaking the cap is one of the reasons I find M Torment's aftermath pretty lackluster). BTusk has issues with cast time set points and duration, not to mention not stacking with Phalanx.

[saevel]

Are some of you guys that desperate to relive the pink mage days? Because without drastic attention elsewhere, this is pretty much a step in that direction.

They don't want to relive pink mage, they want you to relive pink mage. They will be happily sitting on their WAR / MNK / DRK / RNG / SAM / BLU / ect.. laughing the whole while. Some of these posters couldn't care less about RDM and just want to ensure it's not allowed to ever pick up a sword.

[Ophannus]

Bravery was in the .dats too but it was turned into Embrava.

[Mageoholic]

It's a problem when it comes at the expense of the job's versatility. Were the idea more like a RDM samba-esque effect where anyone hitting the same mob they are gets the 15% benefit, rock on, but as a standalone spell, eh... Keep in mind I'm speaking to try and offer incentives to that concept of versatility, not seesaw things one way just because we happen to have "mage" in our job name.

Stop with your terrible aura effect ideas, you and Hyrist have been barking up that tree for 2 years now. What good is a samba effect to a RDM that wants to nuke? Its useless. It is meaningless. You state that people here want to staple RDM to the backline, yet your ideas would staple it to the front line.

A single target spell castable from anywhere on the field of play keeps our versatility in tact. I can cast it while healing, I can cast it while nuking, I can cast it while meleeing. I don't have to stand next to the melee to give an aura, I don't have to strike the mob to give a samba.

You want versatility then you want a spell, otherwise you just staple yourself to the limitations of how that aura/samba effect is applied. Be it standing on the front line nuking (and eating AoE's you shouldn't have to), or meleeing (which screws people who like to nuke/heal.), or married to the WHM's hip giving of an aura buff to them.

Single target spell or gtfo.

[Seriha]

Yeah, heaven forbid the melee game actually hold some kind of advantage and promote a synergy with weapon swapping locked out.

That, paired with the safety of distance, is your backline advantage, and it always has been. Risk deserves reward. Cope. I'm not going anywhere.

[ManaKing]

Single target spell or gtfo.

I hope that single target spell does anything qualitatively impressive or No Thanks.

[Mageoholic]

Yeah, heaven forbid the melee game actually hold some kind of advantage and promote a synergy with weapon swapping locked out.

That, paired with the safety of distance, is your backline advantage, and it always has been. Risk deserves reward. Cope. I'm not going anywhere.

It does it is called damaging the mob. Unless you truly believe that you can out nuke your melee damage. We are old tricks you and I, so I say this to you because I know you have seen me say it it before.

If you want to melee, then melee. I do it all the time and have been doing it for 7 years. You know what I tell people who make a stink about it, Fuck off. My job has the ability to melee and today I feel like using it. Maybe tomorrow I might feel like sitting on the backline healing or nuking. Who knows.

The job doesn't need gimmicks, it doesn't need parlor tricks and it most certainly doesn't need an ability that ties it to one aspect of the game, just because you don't have enough back bone to tell people that you will be playing how you want to play.

[cidbahamut]

They don't want to relive pink mage, they want you to relive pink mage. They will be happily sitting on their WAR / MNK / DRK / RNG / SAM / BLU / ect.. laughing the whole while. Some of these posters couldn't care less about RDM and just want to ensure it's not allowed to ever pick up a sword.

This is blatantly false and you know it. Cut it out.

[Seriha]

The job doesn't need gimmicks, it doesn't need parlor tricks and it most certainly doesn't need an ability that ties it to one aspect of the game, just because you don't have enough back bone to tell people that you will be playing how you want to play.One shouldn't need a backbone to play the job to its concept. There should be no stink raised when someone even tries. The fact it happens at all is a strong indicator something is lacking, and for all your himhawwing about wanting to be a team player, you're advocating exactly the opposite. Again, your blinders are on if you think all I'm shooting for is to just compete with other jobs. Until you can get it through your noggin that boosts to enfeebling and enhancing can actually be achieved through melee, helping to create a useful niche and job identity (as well as incentive to help people gear their RDM friends and shellmates for melee), you're going to continue risk erring the job into an unfun and -1 state otherwise married to its subjob to be useful to the party. I didn't sign up to be a wannabe WHM, stun whore, or the BRD that never was. You're nuts if you think targetable Gains or some minor tweaks to Enfeebling skill will fix everything.

[Greatguardian]

Good god, stop playing with pickups/jerks and shut the hell up.

So sick and tired of this persecution complex bullshit. Play with friends and no one will give a shit what you do either way. This is about our spell arsenal, not the public opinion poll for the acceptability of Red Mage Melee.

[Seriha]

Some people like trying to make more friends from those PUGs you're calling for them to avoid, nevermind the objective exclusion of RDM in the more casual friendly spheres due to lacking procs and minimalistic group policies rooted in having less mouths to feed. The need for EXP/Limits is, for now, also finite. Sorry I'm not just plugging my ears and ignoring a prevalent problem that can be fixed.

[Mageoholic]

Then tell people to fuck off, if they want you to play their way then they can pay for your account. Its a game not a job, and if you don't find yourself having fun because other people "don't let you" then that is your business. Been over this with you many times before. As long as you are doing what you were invited to do, people don't give a shit what else you do.

Unfortunately RDM isn't invited to do anything because it offers nothing that isn't available from it as a support job, and no increasing its melee viability isn't going to magically get it a party invite, increasing its healing viability won't magically get it an invite, increasing its nuking capability won't magically get it an invite. Unless SE of course makes RDM better then a WAR, or WHM, or BLM.

Again the only way we will be sought after is if we can provide something useful to the group that either stacks with other abilities/buffs/debuffs, or is unique in its own way. At this point that is Enhancing and Enfeebling changes, and again to hell with your melee oriented buffs, Id I don't feel like meleeing I don't want to be forced to do so to apply buffs and debuffs. Currently I can buff and debuff while meleeing healing nuking, which is versatile, every mob I engage I can perform a different task, while supporting the party.

Grow a back bone already, you been moaning for years about this melee shit, while some of us have actually been doing it for years, because we don't let other players tell us how we should be having fun.

[Greatguardian]

Some people like trying to make more friends from those PUGs you're calling for them to avoid, nevermind the objective exclusion of RDM in the more casual friendly spheres due to lacking procs and minimalistic group policies rooted in having less mouths to feed. The need for EXP/Limits is, for now, also finite. Sorry I'm not just plugging my ears and ignoring a prevalent problem that can be fixed.

Casual-friendly spheres? Excluding Red Mage because they lack procs and the group values efficiency and minimalism?

The hell is casual about that?

No one gives a shit about public opinion. You don't change public opinion by throwing some gimmicks into the mix. Loldrg, Loldrk, Lolpup, and LolRdMelee are here to stay and nothing the Devs do is going to change those memes. You can either deal with it or play a different job/game.

Straight up, it won't matter how many endebuffs the Devs add to Rdm, staying in melee range is stupid for 99% of Red Mages. Why? Because the good Magical-oriented RDMs think that's fucking retarded, and the good Melee-oriented RDMs can be counted on two hands.

Public opinion isn't going to be looking at the top tier. It's going to be looking at the retarded dregs that people find in PUGs who are going to show up in their full teal (It's like the Chasuble of 2012) Joyeuse RDMs and sit there whacking away in melee range while not supporting anyone. I do not give a fuck if that sort of image applies to anyone in this subforum (though I know it does for a couple people), because all that matters is that these fuckups are the ones ruining public opinion of RdMelee for you and yours. And you know what? Giving them more reasons to put their retardation on display in a large group setting is not the way to improve public acceptance of your sword.

If you want to not be made fun of by the people around you, take some god damn initiative and improve yourself so that you're functional among people who accept your style. If you're a retard who only melees and never casts a spell on another player, well then you're shit outta luck and I have absolutely no sympathy for you.

Tl;dr

Either way, nothing and I mean nothing that tries to throw RdMelee into the spotlight is going to affect public opinion in a positive way. Period. Why? Because the Venn Diagram of people with brains and people who melee looks like fucking this:

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/1d26a14141e479c40083110a195df400.jpg

Does not matter one bit where anyone here lies in that diagram because the average FFXI player actually makes and melees in Macc swords.

[ManaKing]

Lol I play with friends and they still bitch about me melee-ing.

The entire environment RDM plays in is toxic BECAUSE it is not actually an acceptable job. You are always being selfish by coming RDM. Is this anyone's fault that is playing RDM? No, you pay to have fun and so if RDM is what you do for fun, that is what you do. It's the dev's fault for creating such a substandard job @ lvl 76+.

If they would let RDM actually be a real job we could actually stop most of this fighting because we wouldn't have to worry anymore about whose voice is being heard. Most of the people on this forum are scared that the way they play RDM will get pruned off just like Enfeebling was/is. Wonder why we are so heated? Because you are threatening our baby.

I personally will be pissed if either the melee or the magical side of this job gets harmed because I play both sides and enjoy them both a great deal. I would enjoy it more if the job's 2 sides worked together better, just like I wish both sides of this forum would work together. But honestly the entirety of that is solely on SE's amazing slow timeline that now comes with even more BALANCE(not speeding up the process).



Hate Speech/Personal Attacks

Really we are switching roles this week?

[Seriha]

And as long as you willingly think that way, of course nothing will change for the better. You wanna bitch about persecution? I'm looking at a poster child of closed-minded zealotry. You, as an individual, are not better because you're a "mage only" RDM. Numbers and mechanics behind them simply favor the style at present. That's it. Those can be changed. Those changes, in turn, can affect community perception no matter how much you want to meme or pretend you're a higher intellectual wielding MS Paint.

People fear change. People fear being wrong. I can understand a fear of having to relearn a job and, in turn, need to take time to bring it back up to speed. What I can't understand is the conscious desire to hold back or even cripple growth at this point for any reason other than to be antagonistic and juvenile. Playing should not be about compromises or backbones, it should be about people getting together and getting shit done. How that happens with 20 jobs out there is never set in stone. Are there overlaps and jobs in greater need? Sure. But I'm here to talk about Red Mage. I'm not here to nerf it. I'm not here to prevent its magical arsenal from growing. I apparently have a greater collective interest in its abilities on the whole, and with that, can understand why a negative response may, in turn, be perceived as holding the job back. But I also understand there's a point of no return. That's where my own fears of Pink Magery and the like lie. FFXI could be a very lonely game if I just upped and decided to tell everyone to fuck off when I felt like playing RDM. Unfortunately, this reality also exists when faced with universal underpeformance and I believe that's the reality some are more keenly aware of at the moment, if only because their preferred style happens to fall under that broad umbrella.

Love me, hate me, or practice indifference, but there's a difference between a job that is played and a job that you want to play. From the outside looking in, we can only hope an individual is playing a job because they want to over simply needing to. A job's abilities will nonetheless influence that need. Some are willing to sacrifice aspects of that need for higher enjoyment, or even the other way around, but I petition that needn't be the case for RDM. I want everyone to play the way they want to when they want to in whatever activity they enter, but I can't, in good conscience, believe that is possible when strengths are lop-sided. And it's not because they should be, but because they'd been poorly designed and left to stagnate.

[saevel]

I don't see how the numbers favor either side honestly. Healing is substandard, melee is substandard (without CDC), enfeebling is nonexistant, buffing is substandard, and nuking is substandard. In a contest between which can do more damage (Nuking vs Melee) then melee wins every time. But honestly that's like asking who's faster, the one legged man or the man in a wheel chair. Either way their both crippled. Mage by spell selection, melee by gear selection. CDC allows you to deal decent damage, it'll never be up there with an UF WAR or VS MNK but it's not the single digits that everyone pretends it to be. Almace really is zero to hero type upgrade.

SE needs to fix both sides, they most likely won't due to fear of creating another Avesta type player. RDM is near the bottom of their priority list.

[Mageoholic]

Oh get of your throne. You always gives these speeches about woe is me woe is the job. RDM melee is fine just how it is, outside of very minor adjustments it is pretty much in the same place as all other single handed jobs. It always has been. I could go through years of banter from alla where you and people like you (Hyrist for example) have done nothing but ask for handouts, when people like myself and (primarily) Starfox have provided parse data showing RDM competeing with NIN's and Ridill wars (all be it in EXP content but in terms of % decrease going to NM's we are more or less still in the same realm). Ive never seen you post a parse of RDM melee, ever, not once. You bitch and moan and bitch and moan, yet have never even shown that you even practice what you talk so much about.

You just need to grow a pair of balls and play how you want to play. RDM melee is fine, it can cap haste, it has 2 decent weapon options it has a few solid weaponskill options, it has some decent abilities that other melee DD have. The best part is that it isn't expected to perform well, which means you aren't tied to one specific subjob, and these sweet sambas that you want to provide can be done so /DNC. (if you are married to /NIN its because you want to show off your sweet RDM melee epeen, to the group of people who don't care)


I want everyone to play the way they want to when they want to in whatever activity they enter, but I can't, in good conscience, believe that is possible when strengths are lop-sided.

By lopsided strengths I assume you mean the greatness that is enfeebling? or enhancing? or healing?. At present 2 parts of RDM are good, nuking and melee, 1 is mediocre, healing, and 2 are completely ass fucked beyond reason, enhancing and enfeebling.

You talk about your wish for versatility, yet along with lolSaev talk nothing of what would be nice for melee. what would be great for melee is actually getting invited to a group in the first place, and I promise you that RDM will never be asked to come as a melee DD no matter how much SE buffs it, because there are 8 other jobs sitting in that same fucking line that will be at SE's throats if RDM was better then them by a clear margin.

You are out of touch with this job, and this game, and are a push over.

Ive been meleeing for 7 years on RDM, you have been crying about it for at least 4. in the infamous words of Woody Allen, its time to nut up or shut up.

[Seriha]

The best part is that it isn't expected to perform well...
Self-sabotage isn't healthy.

You talk about your wish for versatility, yet along with lolSaev talk nothing of what would be nice for melee.
Short memory, I guess. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19841-Practical-Soultions-to-Issues-with-RDM.?p=267674&viewfull=1#post267674)

Like I say in the post, there's more than one way to the goal, just like how I inferred RDMs could boost curative support to those engaged by fighting the same mob as the RDM. What else do you want? Cite all's good because we can cap gear Haste and some can get CDC, but that doesn't change other jobs growing beyond that. Temper is a good iteration of melee traits in magic form, but more could still be done.

Not once have I ever said enfeebling's accuracy isn't a concern. I've even gone on to say that if we're really meant to be enfeeblers, our arsenal needs to improve. I know you also posted in the WHM/Boost thread, but I guess you're also quick to forget the post I made touching on practically every enhancing spell in the game (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19385-Boost-spells-enhancing-gear?p=263155&viewfull=1#post263155) which would also influence RDM. Yet, here you are, still championing /RDM has been the end of days for us and even advocating skill-based nerfs under the guise of buffs.

Whatever the idea I propose or support, you're most certainly not the one I'm trying to convince, though. I'm not really keen on the whole suffering in silence mentality, either, much as some of you want to believe I'm sitting here with a spent box of kleenex every time someone scoffs at a melee RDM.

[Mageoholic]

Sure. Now, let's say with the above, having 75 points of Enspell damage built up would boost Haste to 20% potency with a 6 minute duration. That'll roughly translate to 3 good hits from a RDM with capped skill, be it T1s or T2s. From a grossly simplistic level, you could just have Enspell damage build points like DNC steps regardless of damage done. Either way, if you want the RDM's spells to make the party even better, the RDM can't just be chillin' in the back rarely exposing themselves to risk. Even if their hit-for-hit damage never competes with a WAR, they'll still want to be as best as possible while offering their supportive benefits brought about their engagement.

Bolded stuff thanks for making my point. Why can't our spells naturally be better than those who have less skill. Why does it have to be enhanced via melee? Some things I don't want to melee on, some I do. I should have the ability to cast a more potent spell than a job with half of my skill level. Period.

as for the second link I didn't bother to read it the first time I am not going to bother reading it this time either. I wasn't replying to you in that thread. I replied to the dev, asking what balance they were talking about, how can it be for balance if WHM is already imbalanced by comparison.

You think it is reasonable that a BRD can cast haste as well as us with 0 native skill?, and supply its own unique buffs on top of that. What about a COR doing it? Its not just haste really since this is serveral levels old. But RDM allows for BRD's to have a very reliable MP pool, with +10 refresh (before gear) and Convert, with plenty of MP gear for converts.

How do you not see that as an issue? How do you not see a level 44 scroll spell that is on par with our 5/5 level 75 merit spell Blind II is an issue. (220K EXP = a level 44 AHable scroll??)

There should be some bonus to being proficient in spells and currently that is non existent for the most part.

So no I don't really care what you wrote there because when you have replied directly to me it has been constant melee this melee that, won't someone please think about the melee.

Attaching our buffs and debuffs to melee is not the answer, and you know it (if your post you claimed says what you claim). It makes no sense to tie something to melee, then in the next breath complain about being tied to the backline. Then claiming you are for versatility. A single target spell that can be cast on other players from anywhere on the playfield accomplishes both use and versatility. More so if that buff is stronger than the one the BRD/RDM is casting, the BRD/RDM who has no native enhancing skill.



Either way, if you want the RDM's spells to make the party even better, the RDM can't just be chillin' in the back rarely exposing themselves to risk.

To answer this more clearly, why should a RDM have to put themselves in needed risk?



Whatever the idea I propose or support, you're most certainly not the one I'm trying to convince, though.

No and just what have you convinced SE of in your 4+ years of crying about melee, instead of just going out and doing it? I mean were still not a melee job are we, thats what you were just ranting about, I think our melee is pretty decent right now, composure was good, and so was the AF3+2, difference is I actually melee on my RDM when I feel like it.

[Mageoholic]

Self-sabotage isn't healthy.

Self sabatoge? wtf are you talking about.

A) RDM/DNC providing Haste Samba to a party without a DNC increased damage to 3-4) DD's (a 12.5% DMG increase * number of heavy DD's) and a -10% addition def down or just a (15% vs 25%)33% increase to attack, for every DD

EDIT Oh ya I forgot, this affects the RDM too silly of me, that is a 12.5% increase in RDM's personal damage too, and 33% attack increase as well.

or

B) RDM/NIN providing 40% more PERSONAL Damage from DWIII

tick tock tick tock.

(guess we know why someone doesn't get to melee now don't we.)

[Seriha]

"Hey guys, I know I'm mediocre and you don't expect much from me, but would you invite me, maybe?"

That's the kind of self-sabotage I'm talking about.

Meanwhile, claiming things are all well and good because you think they are is no indication that they actually are. I've also seen you, in numerous locations, claim that SE took your idea for Healing Magic. You demand proof from me when I have no direct messages from SE saying, "Hey, we got your memo on RDM lacking melee gear. Keep your eyes out for Brego Gloves!" And I doubt you received similar to your own feedback, just as I'm confident you're not the first to propose it. Point is, you have no proof my "whining" has done nothing just as you have no proof yours has done something. We all know they don't listen to NAs, anyway. :P

What I can do is base things I've said on personal experience, both in playing RDM and observing others. I'm sorry if you think dicking around with Ceremonial Daggers on Sky Gods back in the day was a noteworthy blip, but it really wasn't. I've seen plenty of WHMs grumble about having a hard time getting into good EXP parties because Convert and Refresh was gravy train. I've seen friend, shellmate, and stranger alike chastise a RDM for daring to engage a mob for reasons good and wtf-worthy. I've seen what's changed of the game and I see what hasn't. I don't believe Fairy/Sylph to be some anomaly of concentrated FFXI players leading to my experiences being atypical, as in browsing the gripes of others on countless other subjects, the same shit pretty much happens everywhere and not everyone has turned a blind eye for convenience's sake.

As for BRDs capping magical haste alone, here's what I think: I don't care. Why don't I care? The core concept of their job relies on enhancing members of the party. If that is a role they choose to take on in absence of a WHM or RDM doing the same, more power to them. RDM still has their duration advantage with the +2 set, even though we've been there, done that on how I feel such shouldn't be a requirement for the job. I have no interest in rehashing the rest of the /RDM tripe that's only a sweeping plague of identity lost in your own head. I piss on your nerfs for justice because you display a total disregard for preserving the flexibility of the subjob system in this case.

Get back to me on why mediocre melee damage and being within AoE range justifies some advantages over backline play when you understand you can't be swapping staves, can't be wearing refresh/-dt gear if you still want to be half-decent, and don't have to focus as much on self-preservation. I'm okay with staff wielders nuking or curing harder. I'm not okay with the night and day differences present within the job itself because current mechanics don't play nice. Skeleton crew or not, these are not insurmountable walls.

[Mageoholic]

Get back to me on why mediocre melee damage and being within AoE range justifies some advantages over backline play when you understand you can't be swapping staves, can't be wearing refresh/-dt gear if you still want to be half-decent, and don't have to focus as much on self-preservation. I'm okay with staff wielders nuking or curing harder.



Sounds like I touched a nerve. Get back to me when you actually participate in a group for the group and not for your own personal epleasuring. RDM will never be a strong melee, you may as well find a niche for it, that doesn't shoe horn it.

Read the post above yours again.

Until then keep your angry inactive ass from having fun, let others tell you how you should be playing. Its more fun!.

[Seriha]

Get back to me when you actually participate in a group for the group and not for your own personal epleasuring.

Then tell people to fuck off, if they want you to play their way then they can pay for your account.

Hypocrite much?


Read the post above yours again.

The correct response is invite a DNC instead for an additional 5% JA Haste, but thank you for citing an example on why people gloss over RDM and why I'm shooting for added utility that could, you know, help the party.

[Mageoholic]

Also


I've also seen you, in numerous locations, claim that SE took your idea for Healing Magic.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/15942-dev1029-SCH-Feedback?p=221814&viewfull=1#post221814

It was a joke you dolt, in the sense I posted the same exact thing 2 months before hand. (and probably wasn't the only one). I didn't ask for proof, I said nothing has changed RDM is still a mediocre melee, just as it should be.



The correct response is invite a DNC instead for an additional 5% JA Haste, but thank you for citing an example on why people gloss over RDM and why I'm shooting for added utility that could, you know, help the party.

Why bring a DNC when you can bring a RDM can get 20% haste instead of 10, and 25% DEF down instead of 13?. Not to mention RDM is capable of providing just as nearly many procs as a DNC and brings with it additional sword, and magic procs. Procs aside why bring a DNC instead of a DD, DD is going to kill shit faster than a DNC, especially one in a support role.

Instead of spending time frothing at the mouth, you should go out and actually attempt to practice what you wish to preach.


Hypocrite much?

Yes providing and additional 12.5>50%+ DMG to my party (and a 0-33% increase to other Ally melee) is being a hypocrite.

[Crimson_Slasher]

They were calling you a hypocrit because you first told them to "tell others to fuck off and play how you want", Then turned around and said "Try playing in a group for the sake of the group". Additionally i think it was you who said "people playing rdm in group events are being selfish and offering little to the group" but i could be mistaken there, but those all come off very contrary to one another. Personally i am of both sentiments myself for redmage, and while i am on the same server as seriha, and we have shared conversation a handful of times (i believe less than five times) i have never partied with them in any event as of yet.

However that does not change my sentiment that i too personally want rdm melee more comparable to another job, or to have some cool incentive. I dont know if some effect directly tied to melee is the answer, but i AM open to hearing it and not completely dismissing it. Perhaps there can be some system that benefits both roles that isnt exclusively melee? Possibly looking to that charge system that has been suggested, finding some compromise being a good option for it. Perhaps make the charges work for that buff sharing JA which would have a VERY short recast timer (30-60 sec recast) but you must build charges for it, and the charges are earned by inflicting damage, lets say, one charge for every 1k damage. Granted this now forces a rdm to either melee or nuke and not exclusively heal in order to buff, but it still promotes either frontlining and backlining. The question though would be to ask that counts toward building those charges. I could realistically see nukes, and auto attack/ws counted toward this, but i dont know if it could be implemented via DOT, though if that would be possible, perhaps Helixes could be another option for the /sch backline mage.

Id like rdm to be all about the melee, some buff up, self contained super-soldier, but i doubt that will happen. Id love to see those teal, and af, and emp rdms swinging a firmament still and whining theyre weak be done away with, but if nothing else, they support my melee as much as they damage it by comparison. Still, now that the mage rdms have backed off a little bit, now those of us who do like melee are now biting off eachother's heads, i stood back a few days reading and watching this, and i just want to say, we need to get out of this funk, and start doing some heavy testing, bring back numbers, and make some big! Big! BIG! demands! We arent likely to get em, but they seem to like to give us a fraction of what we ask for. So if we ask for something huge, and get 1/4th what we ask, then we still end up ahead!

[saevel]

RDM should be about adapting your role based on the situation. Best way to do this in the context of FFXI is self buffs that alter your stats and strengths, basically you can change your basic parameters to what you need them to be. SE making the Gain spells was a great idea, they should of just made Boost's and given them to WHM and RDM, but I'll take what I can get. Temper was a great idea, and I'm glad it's not a party targetable spell or it would of killed any future the job might of had. Part of me wants it to be a self cast aoe buff like Protectra, but then SE shouldn't of allowed it to scale the way it does, +20% DA is sweet. Now SE needs to create other buffs to go along with it, ways to enhance our attack / magic attack / cure potency and so forth.

Then fcking fix enfeebles and create a line of -Stat, similar to a reverse Gain/Boost line. Let us directly reduce a NMs stats. Taking off 25 VIT would be the equivalent of giving your entire alliance 25 STR.

[cidbahamut]

So how 'bout those elemental enfeebles?

[Vosslerr]

There's been a file in the FFXI database for over 5 years, it's called "Faith". Implement this spell for RDM only as a Divine Magic spell that's single-target and increases "Potency of Cure effect received +X%".
Make it cap at around 15-25% based on Divine Skill. This will give RDM the ability to have a stronger Cure IV. We really need stronger healing, as it's blatantly ridiculous that a Dragoon's "Healing Breath IV" heals players for 800-900+ for 0 MP and 0 hate but we've not had a stronger Cure spell implemented for RDM since 48 and only heals for ~580ish with good Cure Potency gear.

As an added bonus, give this spell to PLD as well.

From Slyt: DRG main for 2 years and counting. Your whole post ragging on DRG over RDM is completely just wrong.. Pull hate? Our Wyvern gets hate from any breath used, HBIV will give it more hate. Our Wyvern's breaths are what keep us alive. You cannot compare a self healing DD job to ANY mage whatsoever and is complete bs how you even consider it is an insult. You know how you can get better healing? Be a White Mage and be quiet. RDM is what RDM is and it will always be that. As is DRG.... Our Wyverns pull as much hate as we let them, Status breaths, healing breaths, elemental breaths, All do. HBIV if anything will in a way make it even harder to keep hate off of it than it will be. And 0 mp? If I remember correctly We still have to cast a spell to even get it to HB which takes LONGER than any cure. You say we don't deserve it and you do? How does that make a difference? It's like saying COR shouldn't get Marksmanship weapon skills because RNG does... Before you go off and compare 2 completely different jobs over 1 measly update, Think about it.. DRG out

[Mageoholic]

I agree RDM doesn't need a new heal, it needs its current heals to be representative of its skill (which SE said they will be looking into, hopefully they don't make it stupid like SE tends to do.) This also applies to Enhancing and Enfeebling. Currently the only two skill sets that are reflected in use are nuking and melee. The rest are all pretty disgraceful at the moment.

(this applies not just to RDM but all jobs with native healing, enhancing, enfeebling skills).

[Greatguardian]

New thread about potential spell additions to Red Mage's library:

Derailed into Melee bullshit where the same half dozen people post novels to each other that none of them read by page 1

[Mageoholic]

Didn't i tell you it would happen, all it took was one person (me) saying that tying a buff system to melee was not what the job needed. It needs castable buffs, to work (or new ones that do, but its easier to build on existing.)

I appologize to the community for continuing it, but I had to make my point that melee is functional, and I had to let Serhia beat herself up with her own words. (I am a creul asshole douchebag, thats why my friends love me.)

Sorry guys I got out of hand.

Single target (party only) spells or gtfo!

[ManaKing]

I'm super glad Mageoholic joined the forums. It's great to hear someone still rant. I thought most of us were ranted out, but it looks like we are going to keep going.

[saevel]

I'm super glad Mageoholic joined the forums. It's great to hear someone still rant. I thought most of us were ranted out, but it looks like we are going to keep going.

I think that's the whole reason he joined. He's been lurking for ages. Saw most of the alla RDM posters moved here and followed just to start up the old debates we had in 08. The status of RDM now is the exact same as 08 with very little changing. Enfeebles still suck, our "support" is just three spells, our nukes are third rate, and other then MP restoration we don't have much of a use anymore.

[Mageoholic]

I think that's the whole reason he joined. He's been lurking for ages. Saw most of the alla RDM posters moved here and followed just to start up the old debates we had in 08.

Ya I came here for you and not because the devs actually read these forums. I came because I want to banter with you about why you are wrong instead of offering suggestions that would actually make RDM a relevant party option. You are my idol, and I will follow you till the ends of time!.

[ManaKing]

Ya I came here for you and not because the devs actually read these forums. I came because I want to banter with you about why you are wrong instead of offering suggestions that would actually make RDM a relevant party option. You are my idol, and I will follow you till the ends of time!.

Lol you're just sarcastic enough to find adorable.

[tyrantsyn]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/427430_329920440383195_100000957250449_879839_680207669_n.jpg


GOOD GRIEF melee again!?

[Greatguardian]

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/427430_329920440383195_100000957250449_879839_680207669_n.jpg


GOOD GRIEF melee again!?

I just want to say that I love this picture so very, very much.

[tyrantsyn]

I just want to say that I love this picture so very, very much.

Well thank you, think I my do more just to express my feeling's about thread derail~ment's

[Oscar71]

Give RDM tier 3 en spells and a self embrava