Beastmaster unfair disadvantage

[Kavik]

While I'm sure this has been posted elsewhere, I didn't really look that much so instead of searching through endless threads and posts... I'm gonna put it here.

The fact that bst's called pets dissapear upon log out OR disconnect... is BULL. Not only do i have to PAY to HEAL my pet (see pup) I have to PAY to CALL MY (since nothing is charmable in the places that i have to take the darn thing) pet on a job that is undisputably a "pet" job. Then i summon my pet and before my recast timer is down... i get disconnected and my pet is gone. i might as well have just thrown 30k gil on the ground. No other pet job has these restrictions. This has NOTHING to do with balance. It's just irritating and stupid. Seriously guys nothing is going to be hurt by bsts being able to zone with our jug pets. Our npc's can do it, ato's can do it avatars can do it wyverns can do. Jug pets should be able to as well.

[ShadowHeart]

we been asking for this for years :( its about time!!!!

[Vandheer]

I agree with this. Beastmaster is left out of an important part of the pet job circle. :x It would be understandable if charmed monsters cant follow the Beastmaster from area to area but jug pets really should be able to.

[Xilk]

I"m a career bst, and yes, it would be a bit nicer on the budget.. but frankly, I don't care that much.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

SE like to make BST suffer they're thinking of changing SMN so it's easier to summon their pets, yet they added only Call Beast in Abyssea and Voidwatch to stop people spamming pets at enemies until they win. The logic escapes me.

[deces]

Its about to get alot worse.

[Ophannus]

I think this is PROBABLY because jug pets have a timer and when you log out or disconnect, it's hard for the server to keep track of the remaining time on the jug pet so it just dismisses it. This is probabaly different from regular spell/job ability recast which the server keeps time on.

The zoning thing is weird though and should be changed.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I think this is PROBABLY because jug pets have a timer and when you log out or disconnect, it's hard for the server to keep track of the remaining time on the jug pet so it just dismisses it. This is probabaly different from regular spell/job ability recast which the server keeps time on.

The zoning thing is weird though and should be changed.

It keeps the time when you log out for everything else.

[Jile]

{ SE: In allowing BST pets the ability to zone, we are adjusting the call timer to once every 25 minutes for means of ensuring BALANCE }

That said tho.. lol, yes it would be nice to be able to zone my jugpets on Jugmaster er um, BST.

[Psxpert2011]

{ SE: In allowing BST pets the ability to zone, we are adjusting the call timer to once every 25 minutes for means of ensuring BALANCE }

That said tho.. lol, yes it would be nice to be able to zone my jugpets on Jugmaster er um, BST.

So operation correction to Jug-pets yaaay. I can finally return to leveling my lv.50 Bst and go higher and have a lil bit more freedom to change areas without wasting a jug-pet or waiting for it to die or dismissing it(in fact, dismissing it should return to you a jug, doesn't that make more sense?).

I guess with the popular excuse of "keeping balance", SE just wants you to follow their limited server capabilities (freedom), work with their restrictions and rules, following their mandate type of 'fun'. I really wonder how many Bst are there game-wide that have tolerated this type of 'freedom' despite the job reduced to a solo orientated role.

SE intended Bst to contribute in parties but the jugs you use for familiars don't last and each has a one time use basically because it wasn't expected for soloing extensively? Will SE further make improvements to bst in such a short time? I hope so, I'll be checking up with this thread and others because bst threads are great! ^^

[Jile]

I really wonder how many Bst are there game-wide that have tolerated this type of 'freedom' despite the job reduced to a solo orientated role.

Honestly, any real BST is a solo oriented player anyway. While we can work decently in a alliance setup we work best alone or in groups of other BST or SMN. Always has been, likely always will be this way.

SE has made some attempts to allow us to be more of a party job with overall dmg output with pet being similar to an average DD but they're definitely not trying to make the job perform in a way that we would be asked to come on BST vs a traditional DD job, they would never heard the end of the complaints ~ since BST is still a niche job.

[Scribble]

Not only do i have to PAY to HEAL my pet (see pup) I have to PAY to CALL MY (since nothing is charmable in the places that i have to take the darn thing) pet on a job that is undisputably a "pet" job.

[Insert obligatory 'money is easy' comment here]

Get a job you bum. You're a BST so I assume you know that you can farm as well as any job if not better due to pet TH. Learn to farm and make all your own pets and food. Work more, cry less.


Then i summon my pet and before my recast timer is down... i get disconnected and my pet is gone.

I don't agree with pets following you from zone to zone. However, I would suggest that if you zone while your pet is active, the timer for Call Beast should be reset. That's about the only adjustment I can see being made. If you called a pet right before you zoned, you need to l2p. If you disconnect frequently enough that you feel SE should redesign game mechanics, you should realize that SE isn't responsible for your internet connection; that would be the job of your ISP.

[Phogg]

Scribble, is there any logic or reasoning behind your post? I really don't see it. You realize every other pet job in the game can freely zone with their pets. Why should BST, the only job with a direct cost associated with calling their pets (in three ways, timers, gil, and inventory requirements) not be allowed the same ability?

This does not even address the annoying and purposeless depopping of pets during any "battlefield" style content.

[Gravionblack]

[Insert obligatory 'money is easy' comment here]

Get a job you bum. You're a BST so I assume you know that you can farm as well as any job if not better due to pet TH. Learn to farm and make all your own pets and food. Work more, cry less.

It would seem that someone is not keeping up with the updates, called pest only have TH1 as of 2/13/12 update. So the "you know that you can farm as well as any job if not better due to pet TH." Does not really come into play now.

[coerci]

As and old school Beastmaster I would like to see Jug pets Zone. More importantly I want to see us return to the
full Beastmaster Job. Bring Charm back into the Game. Put some charmable mobs in all of the high level areas.

[Dreamin]

I'm all for making Charm a meaningful skill again for BST. But I dont see how that would be given events such as WoE, VW and Legion all does not contain any charmable mobs at all. The next closest thing are that there are charmable mobs around the GoV area if that's what you're looking for.

Anyone who doesnt' understands why BST's pet (from jug) should be allowed to zone with us are just an idiot who doesn't play BST or understands the frustration.

[Dragoy]

What comes to changing area with them pets, this is almost a year old post but I guess it's still valid:


We asked the development team about the possibility of changing areas without pets de-spawning. Unfortunately, they mentioned that they do not currently have any plans for this, mainly due to the fact that at a system level it is not possible (wyverns, however, are a special case). Also, since the Beastmaster’s “Call Beast” ability consumes an item on use, it is favorable for game balance to keep it this way.

From the thread: In the Name of all that's [Holy], Let us Zone with Pets!


Who knows, minds do change during years passing by, even when it comes to something such as Dynamis!

[Daniel_Hatcher]

[Insert obligatory 'money is easy' comment here]

Get a job you bum. You're a BST so I assume you know that you can farm as well as any job if not better due to pet TH. Learn to farm and make all your own pets and food. Work more, cry less.



I don't agree with pets following you from zone to zone. However, I would suggest that if you zone while your pet is active, the timer for Call Beast should be reset. That's about the only adjustment I can see being made. If you called a pet right before you zoned, you need to l2p. If you disconnect frequently enough that you feel SE should redesign game mechanics, you should realize that SE isn't responsible for your internet connection; that would be the job of your ISP.

Nonsense post is nonsense.

[Raborn]

NO NO NO NO NO, if you have to do ANYTHING like increase the recast timers on Call Beast you make BST completely worthless in a timed event, I can't tell you how fast pets die to special monster type NPCS and how irritating anything over a 5 minute recast would be, if you did that you'd need to regear the entire jug pet system and reward system to balance bst and in that case you'd make them nigh untouchable.
I think its fine for you to pay for the jug pets, you don't hear rngs running around bitching every shot they make, about having to use up bolts every time they make a shot or cor crying about their bullets, which are expensive to make and use.
It's part of the job, if you want cheap, only play in zones where you can charm and keep that crybaby bullshit i pay 50k for a stack of jugs at home. Level up your crafts or make friends with someone who'll craft them for you.

[Phogg]

NO NO NO NO NO, if you have to do ANYTHING like increase the recast timers on Call Beast you make BST completely worthless in a timed event, I can't tell you how fast pets die to special monster type NPCS and how irritating anything over a 5 minute recast would be, if you did that you'd need to regear the entire jug pet system and reward system to balance bst and in that case you'd make them nigh untouchable.
I think its fine for you to pay for the jug pets, you don't hear rngs running around bitching every shot they make, about having to use up bolts every time they make a shot or cor crying about their bullets, which are expensive to make and use.
It's part of the job, if you want cheap, only play in zones where you can charm and keep that crybaby bullshit i pay 50k for a stack of jugs at home. Level up your crafts or make friends with someone who'll craft them for you.

LOL, I must have just imagined the 8 million "Just get rid of consumable ammo" threads out there....

BTW, my wife makes all of our pets and pet food, and she even makes quite a bit of gil off the dyna spammers, yet this mechanic is still annoying and should be fixed, for many reason that have nothing to do with gil.

[Xilk]

LOL, I must have just imagined the 8 million "Just get rid of consumable ammo" threads out there....

BTW, my wife makes all of our pets and pet food, and she even makes quite a bit of gil off the dyna spammers, yet this mechanic is still annoying and should be fixed, for many reason that have nothing to do with gil.

I'll take the gil. I have plenty of things to use it for.

[YRUdamasta]

I for one personally....never understoood why BST jug pets can't zone...seems stupid

Its the one obvious thing they should fix on the BST job>?

[Camate]

Greetings!

I’d like to give some feedback in regards to pet behavior when changing areas and kicking off confrontations.

• Area Changing with Charmed Pets
Monster data is managed in each area and since it cannot carry over to other areas, system-wise it is just not possible to do this.

• Differences between pet behavior when changing areas
Wyvern, automatons, and adventuring fellows all have long recast times and if they didn’t carry over between areas, it would be quite a large penalty. Based on this, they will not disappear when changing areas.

On the other hand, familiar pets and avatars use jugs and cost MP so the penalty is not as large. With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition.
With that said, it is technically possible; however, in the case that pets did not disappear when changing areas, the cost of using that pet to its full extent would be increased (the cost of the jug).

• Dynamis Confrontations
The ability to adjust settings for support job restrictions is a special feature of Dynamis, and the behavior from other Dynamis confrontations differs. As a result of investigating, it seems like it is possible to make them all unified, so we are currently working on addressing this.

After this change, when confrontations begin pets will no longer disappear.

Currently this adjustment will only take place for Dynamis confrontations. The reason for this being that it is not desirable that the same content isn’t uniform, so there is no problem changing this specifically for Dynamis. However, this behavior is something that has been necessary from the start, so please understand that it will not be possible to do this for the entire game.

[Alhanelem]

With that said, it is technically possible; however, in the case that pets did not disappear when changing areas, the cost of using that pet to its full extent would be increased (the cost of the jug).I'm really confused as why they seem to feel a trade-off would be necessary here. Beastmaster isn't going to be viewed as overpowered anytime soon, and letting jug pets carry over between areas is a trivial cost savings- No price adjustment to jugs should be needed.

[Quetzacoatl]

Not like this will change things once the BST TH Nerf hits.

byebyebandwagondynamisbsts :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Not like this will change things once the BST TH Nerf hits.

byebyebandwagondynamisbsts :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

They wont stop playing as BST because it's the easiest job to do it in, almost fail proof. So if you think otherwise you'll be sorely mistaken.



With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition.
With that said, it is technically possible; however, in the case that pets did not disappear when changing areas, the cost of using that pet to its full extent would be increased (the cost of the jug).

No it's not.

That said, I'd talke a slightly increased cost for the ability to zone with jug pets. No need to worry about Charmed ones, no one wants that.

[Quetzacoatl]

They wont stop playing as BST because it's the easiest job to do it in, almost fail proof. So if you think otherwise you'll be sorely mistaken.

As far as I'm concerned, they can enjoy their low droprate unless they bring a THF friend along. I'd also like to see what those BSTs would say to mobs being stolen with a WS after a pet's target turns yellow.

Don't hog dynamis mobs, folks!

[Daniel_Hatcher]

As far as I'm concerned, they can enjoy their low droprate unless they bring a THF friend along. I'd also like to see what those BSTs would say to mobs being stolen with a WS after a pet's target turns yellow.

Don't hog dynamis mobs, folks!

Wow, how Droll.

Lets pretend BST's are the only job to pull more than one mob... it's so "in."

We'll forget Fell Cleavers, Charged Whiskers, Aeolian Edges etcetera....

PS. TH1 is better than nothing, triggers are the only thing that matters in Abyssea.

[Vold]

Cost of jugs, huh? You mean like, oh I don't know, requiring fricking dragon meat isn't cost enough? The TH pets and the turtle are some pricey son of a bitches. And they aren't the only ones. I mean seriously, how much do you want a jug to cost for the right to zone with them? 500k a stack??? This is just more proof that the dev team does not live in the same reality as us.

No, this doesn't make sense. What does make sense is for them to say, the trade off for zoning would be a 15-20 min timer on call beast. Which would be brutal to BST but not anymore brutal than other pet jobs. Not that I want to see this happen, btw. But you know, maybe I wouldn't mind it. Maybe if you're against the idea of a longer timer on CB, you need to be a little more protective of your pet and rely a little less on that timer. Just throwing that out there but I'm aware of the occasional instance where that 5 min timer is absolutely sorta kinda required(like KC BC, or the final limit break)

And so what if a SMN pet can zone? Am I being told here that these beasts and avatars can't zone just because they're "cheap" to use? Lol? If you really REALLY think about it, it is 100% pointless for them to vanish upon zoning. So. Yeah.

Bottom line: A BST jug costs money. It should be zoning along with us, period. It's not a freebie pet, and the damn things have a timer for how long they are active before they poof. Why are they disappearing upon zoning?

and the damn things have a timer for how long they are active before they poof. Why are they disappearing upon zoning?

and the damn things have a timer for how long they are active before they poof. Why are they disappearing upon zoning?

and the damn things have a timer for how long they are active before they poof. Why are they disappearing upon zoning?

/epicfiveminutefacepalmbecauseheadhurtstryingtounderstanddevteam

You know, not that losing my pets hurts me in the least. But dammit I hate using a TH pet for 15 minutes on say Kirin then losing it because I zoned to do more farming, so I just head to the house. Think about that dev team, if Cam relays this information to you. You could time sink me more by allowing my pet to zone in sky. You gonna take that?! letting me get away with not being time sinked and stuff. I dare you to time sink me more. I double dog dare you! Bring it!

[Quetzacoatl]

Wow, how Droll.

Lets pretend BST's are the only job to pull more than one mob... it's so "in."

We'll forget Fell Cleavers, Charged Whiskers, Aeolian Edges etcetera....

PS. TH1 is better than nothing, triggers are the only thing that matters in Abyssea.
Those aren't even practical in Dynamis unless you go in as an entire linkshell and have some spare time farming dynamis-xarcabard after a few ADL runs or whatever the plan was. Assuming they're set up for that, anyway. >_>

For real though, any BST expecting to keep 4-5 mobs (5-7 if duo) is disrespectful and is going to get their mobs taken. Yellow is fair game, and I won't hesitate to take them.

[Calamity]

Those aren't even practical in Dynamis unless you go in as an entire linkshell and have some spare time farming dynamis-xarcabard after a few ADL runs or whatever the plan was. Assuming they're set up for that, anyway. >_>

For real though, any BST expecting to keep 4-5 mobs (5-7 if duo) is disrespectful and is going to get their mobs taken. Yellow is fair game, and I won't hesitate to take them.

Really, on what planet is this a bst only thing? I see dncs, nins and thf's doing the exact same thing. If you seem to think bsts do it more, it's only because there are more bsts. Seriously, stop blaming the job. Blame the players behind the job. They would play exactly the same no matter what job they're on.

[Zinato]

As far as I'm concerned, they can enjoy their low droprate unless they bring a THF friend along. I'd also like to see what those BSTs would say to mobs being stolen with a WS after a pet's target turns yellow.

Don't hog dynamis mobs, folks!

Seems you've never played BST, difference between Hobs and Yuly is roughly -30 to take home that's out of 150-200. (Even after update Yuly will have TH1 btw) Less take home means more runs to do, more people to piss off and more killing with a stronger pet to make up the difference. The argument you used has been played to death and it was wrong day one. Don't mix up Hate for Competition and Hate for BST it's not the same.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Those aren't even practical in Dynamis unless you go in as an entire linkshell and have some spare time farming dynamis-xarcabard after a few ADL runs or whatever the plan was. Assuming they're set up for that, anyway. >_>

For real though, any BST expecting to keep 4-5 mobs (5-7 if duo) is disrespectful and is going to get their mobs taken. Yellow is fair game, and I won't hesitate to take them.

It's not practical since the AoE nerf, was done a lot before then.

Don't deny it is. Disrespectful it is not, selfish yes. Interesting detail though, as someone that on the occasion I do Dynamis at all, I take one enemy at a time, but pulling with BST's F**cked up mechanics usually sees my pet unintentionally run through other mobs that then link, I don't aim to pull "the zone" or so on but it happens, Do I care if you steal them? Not really, as I'm not foolish enough to trigger weakness on the enemy I'm not fighting. While I don't deny a fair few BST's pull the zone, not everyone does.

Ending on: The people that do pool the zone are the same style of people that will take a linkshell to camp one weak NM if someone is after it and they want it. Do be careful though, you continue to do it to one BST over and over again and they report you for Bullying... ouch!

[Mavrick]

Seems you've never played BST, difference between Hobs and Yuly is roughly -30 to take home that's out of 150-200. (Even after update Yuly will have TH1 btw) Less take home means more runs to do, more people to piss off and more killing with a stronger pet to make up the difference. The argument you used has been played to death and it was wrong day one. Don't mix up Hate for Competition and Hate for BST it's not the same.

You (and the others as well) need to stop responding to people like Quetzacoatl. The guy is obviously a troll and contributes nothing to the thread other than flamebaiting everyone. Since this post is now on "Hot Topics" and featured on the main page you can expect more just like him popping in and turning this into yet another anti-bst/dynamis "haha bst-nerf" thread.


Greetings!

I’d like to give some feedback in regards to pet behavior when changing areas and kicking off confrontations.

• Differences between pet behavior when changing areas
Wyvern, automatons, and adventuring fellows all have long recast times and if they didn’t carry over between areas, it would be quite a large penalty. Based on this, they will not disappear when changing areas.


Well Puppetmasters now have Deus Ex Automata which allows them to call autos every 60 seconds. All PUP needs to do is restore automaton to full HP, deactivate and they'll have "Activate" fully recharged and have a automaton at full strength. That is well beyond BST's 5 min recast on call beast.

Summoners literally has no recast at all. As soon as they change zones their pets are ready to be called... And they are free.

So, from that prospective it actually makes more sense to allow jug pets to zone than it does to allow automatons and avatars to zone.



On the other hand, familiar pets and avatars use jugs and cost MP so the penalty is not as large. With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition.
With that said, it is technically possible; however, in the case that pets did not disappear when changing areas, the cost of using that pet to its full extent would be increased (the cost of the jug).




I feel it is a lost cause trying to get anything changed or adjusted on Beastmaster. Every time someone mentions an adjustment that sounds very simple and plausible it gets shot down for illogical reasons.
I applause the development team for finally giving us formidable pets 76+ (even though we asked 5+ years ago). But after getting the extremely worthless "Run Wild" ability on a 15 min recast o.O! and having this much difficult to get something as simple as allowing jugs to zone I reckon nothing is going to change for BSTs anytime soon.

[Billdance]

Greetings!

I’d like to give some feedback in regards to pet behavior when changing areas and kicking off confrontations.

• Area Changing with Charmed Pets
Monster data is managed in each area and since it cannot carry over to other areas, system-wise it is just not possible to do this.

• Differences between pet behavior when changing areas
Wyvern, automatons, and adventuring fellows all have long recast times and if they didn’t carry over between areas, it would be quite a large penalty. Based on this, they will not disappear when changing areas.

On the other hand, familiar pets and avatars use jugs and cost MP so the penalty is not as large. With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition.
With that said, it is technically possible; however, in the case that pets did not disappear when changing areas, the cost of using that pet to its full extent would be increased (the cost of the jug).

• Dynamis Confrontations
The ability to adjust settings for support job restrictions is a special feature of Dynamis, and the behavior from other Dynamis confrontations differs. As a result of investigating, it seems like it is possible to make them all unified, so we are currently working on addressing this.

After this change, when confrontations begin pets will no longer disappear.

Currently this adjustment will only take place for Dynamis confrontations. The reason for this being that it is not desirable that the same content isn’t uniform, so there is no problem changing this specifically for Dynamis. However, this behavior is something that has been necessary from the start, so please understand that it will not be possible to do this for the entire game.

I noticed that you compared jug pets to ammunition but last time I checked nobody loses a stack of amunition every time they zone.

[katz]

You are all reacting as though its only the bst jugs that do any damage. Get off your back lines and use your axes. Bst have 2 shots at killing mobs. If you dont like the cost of jugs then make your own its way cheaper. AS to loosing pets yes it happens, yes you have to replace them, if a rng uses his ammo hes lost it, no different to bst using jugs instead of charming.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You are all reacting as though its only the bst jugs that do any damage. Get off your back lines and use your axes. Bst have 2 shots at killing mobs. If you dont like the cost of jugs then make your own its way cheaper. AS to loosing pets yes it happens, yes you have to replace them, if a rng uses his ammo hes lost it, no different to bst using jugs instead of charming.

Wrong! If you're going to be a BST and NOT call a pet then you may as well be a proper DD job, should you engaged? Of course if the enemy does not have crazy AoE which will kill you in one-shot. It's all about knowing when is appropriate, and when is not.

Don't you start comparing Ammo to Jugs, just because SE claims it so they are in no way similar, interestingly RNG can save ammo via things like Recycle, whereas BST can not.

In Voidwatch: RNG's weakness WS' all can be done with any ammo, and they don't loose it everytime they start a new VW, Have to keep changing pets on a 5 minute timer costing a fortune or so on.

Like it or not BST is a pet job, no one wants Charmed pets to zone they want pets they supposedly fully control for upto 2 hours to have the same ability as the others of zoning pets. Call Beast is a 5:00 timer, not 0:30 timer with never ending pets like SMN we are locked.

SE are talking rubbish in comparing SMN and BST as they are not alike.

[Siiri]

Considering beastmasters are soloing relics, soloing emp weapons etc, they sure do complain a lot.

[Quetzacoatl]

Really, on what planet is this a bst only thing? I see dncs, nins and thf's doing the exact same thing. If you seem to think bsts do it more, it's only because there are more bsts. Seriously, stop blaming the job. Blame the players behind the job. They would play exactly the same no matter what job they're on.

Yeah, I understand THFs DNCs and NINs are equal to blame, but the saturation of players doing this lately have been BSTs from my PoV. I'll admit, I'll pull one or two extra out of 2 hippogryphs if the camp is empty, but once that camp gets crowded, It's just down to 2 with my dynamis partners.


Don't deny it is. Disrespectful it is not, selfish yes. Interesting detail though, as someone that on the occasion I do Dynamis at all, I take one enemy at a time, but pulling with BST's F**cked up mechanics usually sees my pet unintentionally run through other mobs that then link, I don't aim to pull "the zone" or so on but it happens, Do I care if you steal them? Not really, as I'm not foolish enough to trigger weakness on the enemy I'm not fighting. While I don't deny a fair few BST's pull the zone, not everyone does.

I agree, it's just those fair few I've been seeing that are outrageous. Thankfully it's not like I can't do anything about them though. And as far as disrespectful goes, everyone has an equal opportunity to farm for currency, but when there's one douche-hole who decides to link all the mobs, drag them to a remote spot and take their sweet time procing then killing them...are they trying to intentionally waste everyone's time in there? They're better off killing 1-2 mobs per player so they don't have to deal with everyone else anyway!


Seems you've never played BST, difference between Hobs and Yuly is roughly -30 to take home that's out of 150-200. (Even after update Yuly will have TH1 btw) Less take home means more runs to do, more people to piss off and more killing with a stronger pet to make up the difference. The argument you used has been played to death and it was wrong day one. Don't mix up Hate for Competition and Hate for BST it's not the same.

Yeah yeah, I understand the career BSTs will keep farming dynamis and I won't have a problem with that as long as they have some etiquette with farming mobs. The same goes for any other sort of competition who might have the thought of going, "hey, let's act like jackasses tonight and screw with their relic progress." Just stay off mine and I'll stay off yours. Is that really so hard to ask?

[Yinnyth]

Considering beastmasters are soloing relics, soloing emp weapons etc, they sure do complain a lot.

Warriors (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18575-More-nerfs-for-War-Ukkos.) sure do complain a lot, too. So do white mages. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18002-Why-no-Nuke-love) And corsairs. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20483-Battle-Balance-Adjustment-TP-Gained-through-Use-of-a-Weaponskill) And bards. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20865-Enough.-99-BRD-Still-singing-same-song-from-level-60.) And don't even get me started on how much thieves (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11492-Screwed-again-Proposed-THF-job-adjustments.) complain.

Or are you saying that BST is better than all those jobs, so anyone who plays it has no right to complain? Then if they're so damned good, why does it get less invites than any of those other jobs?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Considering beastmasters are soloing relics, soloing emp weapons etc, they sure do complain a lot.

So can most jobs, it's just BST's are not accepted in parties so they're forced to at a much slower rate because of it too.

[Ketaru]

Warriors sure do complain a lot, too. So do white mages. And corsairs. And bards. And don't even get me started on how much thieves complain.

Or are you saying that BST is better than all those jobs, so anyone who plays it has no right to complain? Then if they're so damned good, why does it get less invites than any of those other jobs?

Same ol' player mantra from past eternal:

It can solo, so it's all good! Never mind that it's a job that, in a group oriented game, most groups see little value in.

[Calamity]

Yeah, I understand THFs DNCs and NINs are equal to blame, but the saturation of players doing this lately have been BSTs from my PoV. I'll admit, I'll pull one or two extra out of 2 hippogryphs if the camp is empty, but once that camp gets crowded, It's just down to 2 with my dynamis partners.

See, you're missing the point though. It's not that people who play bst do shit like this, it's that people who do shit like this started playing bst. Currently bst is just the most effective job to farm dynamis with. In my experience about 1/10 bsts I see in dynamis actually "play" the job. To the other 9 it's just a dynamis farming tool. Who knows, a month after the bst th nerf, this whole conversation might be repeated with dnc or thf as the target subject instead.

[Quetzacoatl]

See, you're missing the point though. It's not that people who play bst do shit like this, it's that people who do shit like this started playing bst. Currently bst is just the most effective job to farm dynamis with. In my experience about 1/10 bsts I see in dynamis actually "play" the job. To the other 9 it's just a dynamis farming tool. Who knows, a month after the bst th nerf, this whole conversation might be repeated with dnc or thf as the target subject instead.

Wait what? If that's what you're talking about, then if you were paying attention, you would have realized I was talking about bandwagon dynamis bsts in the first place!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CvudXaiCeKk/T1aV7kJSB2I/AAAAAAAADQE/M24nMEczXBE/s1600/jackie-chan-wtf.png

[Lyandra]

How narrow-minded. While it is true BST can hold more than one mob at once, they're not the only job capable of doing so (i.e. BLU). As it's been said before the trigger proc does more for drops than TH does, so that's not gonna change much. As for me, I have THF with TH7, but I'm still going to fight Dynamis as my BST thanks to minimal downtime and just as much kill force vs THF. So ya, sorry.

[Quetzacoatl]

How narrow-minded. While it is true BST can hold more than one mob at once, they're not the only job capable of doing so (i.e. BLU).

Tell me how often you see a BLU in there.

As it's been said before the trigger proc does more for drops than TH does, so that's not gonna change much. As for me, I have THF with TH7, but I'm still going to fight Dynamis as my BST thanks to minimal downtime and just as much kill force vs THF. So ya, sorry.

As long as you maintain a maximum of mobs to pull and not overstep your boundaries, not a single f#@% will be given.

[Elexia]

Considering beastmasters are soloing relics, soloing emp weapons etc, they sure do complain a lot.

They need more. It's like when RDMs were bitching they didn't have x even though they were the only job that can solo Gods back in the day.

[Vandheer]

For starters thank you Camate for getting this looked at. However I don't believe raising the costs of pet jugs in exchange for zoning pets is reasonable nor makes sense. We aren't asking for our pets damage to be boosted were asking for our pets to zone with us so we can save some gil. As it is now having a pet zone is not the only factor as to how long a pet stays active as we have a timer on how long our pet can stay out. I understand all the other pet jobs have different requirements on their pets but will allowing jug pets the ability to zone with us really unbalance that much to have to raise the price of pet jugs?

Addressing Dynamis confrontations is a good start to this, however if even after reanalyzing whatever logic is being used here and the dev teams solution is unchanged I'd vote for no change at all... Mainly in fear of how much the pet jugs are changed in price and how they would change recipes in order to implement the change... >,>



You are all reacting as though its only the bst jugs that do any damage. Get off your back lines and use your axes. Bst have 2 shots at killing mobs. If you dont like the cost of jugs then make your own its way cheaper. AS to loosing pets yes it happens, yes you have to replace them, if a rng uses his ammo hes lost it, no different to bst using jugs instead of charming.
No we aren't reacting as though beast jugs are the only thing that do damage at all. In this thread we are asking for pets to zone with us to save us a little bit of cash. Beastmaster is a pet related job and to not use jugs would beat the purpose of being a Beastmaster. Yes we know that when we use a jug we lose the jug but do we have to lose the called pet when we zone in order to "balance" the job out? As for charming pets this would be lovely if we could charm in new content but that isn't an option for us. Either way we aren't asking for charmed pets to zone either just the ones were spending our gil to use. Even if we crafted our jugs we are still spending gil and/or our time to farm the ingredients (looking at you dragon meat).



They need more. It's like when RDMs were bitching they didn't have x even though they were the only job that can solo Gods back in the day.
This would be a lovely comment if Beastmaster was asking for something game changing... zoning pets is not game changing it is making our lives easier. In addition Beastmaster isn't the only job soloing what we need and zoning pets isn't going to unbalance anything as far as I'm aware of.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

They need more. It's like when RDMs were bitching they didn't have x even though they were the only job that can solo Gods back in the day.

lol, you're funny!

BST can solo lvl.75 content at 99, and Abyssea which any job can.

I'll ignore the RDM comment because that's just laughable.

[Phogg]

"With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition."

You don't lose half a stack of ammunition when you zone though.....Seriously SE, I have literally no reason to play my favorite job (BST) over any other option I have at this point, and your response to issues with the job don't even make any sense.

If jug pets can't zone because they are considered "monsters", why are they considered monsters? They are not charmed pets, they are consumable items. Why can we not get the same option to "stuff" our pets bag into jugs at full HP like Wyverns or Puppets? Because of a 15 minute timer difference?

SE logic gets more ridiculous by the day. Consumer confidence at an all-time low.

[Yinnyth]

"With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition."

You don't lose half a stack of ammunition when you zone though.....

You don't lose half a stack of jugs for zoning either. You're blowing the expense part of the argument out of proportion. Yes, you do lose something for zoning with a jug pet out, but it sure ain't 50 orichalcum bullets. A more accurate comparison would be if zoning caused food to wear off. Jobs which benefit greatly from food (heavy DD, mostly) would be at a cost disadvantage when compared to jobs which can usually get away with ignoring food (bard, for example).

[Yinnyth]

BTW what I am farming for is Shadowy broth, it's 230k a stack, or 19k PER PET. So don't come crying to me about or bullets.

I said you're blowing the cost comparison out of proportion when you compared losing a pet to losing half a stack of ammo upon zoning. Even if you use the numbers you use in your post, half a stack of orichalcum is still more expensive than a single shadow broth.

Do you summon a pet everytime before you zone? Unless you're a complete idiot about it, you get use out of your pet before you lose him due to zoning. Therefore your loss is not equal to the full price of the jug. Do not compare the entire cost of an entire jug to the price of a half stack of ammo. And do not proceed to compare the cost of losing a pet upon zoning to the cost of losing a half stack of ammo EVERY TIME a ranger zones.

I agree with you that it's unfair that you lose a jug pet when confrontation status begins, or when you zone. However, that's no excuse to forsake reality and claim it costs you more than it does.

[Annalise]

• Differences between pet behavior when changing areas
Wyvern, automatons, and adventuring fellows all have long recast times and if they didn’t carry over between areas, it would be quite a large penalty. Based on this, they will not disappear when changing areas.

On the other hand, familiar pets and avatars use jugs and cost MP so the penalty is not as large. With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition.
With that said, it is technically possible; however, in the case that pets did not disappear when changing areas, the cost of using that pet to its full extent would be increased (the cost of the jug).


Everyone, including Camate, is missing a big point here...

A SUMMONER DOES NOT LOSE AN AVATAR WHEN THEY ZONE. IF THEY GO INTO TOWN, AND COME BACK OUT, JUST LIKE PUP/DRG THE AVATAR IS WAITING WHEN THEY COME BACK OUT. THE ONLY TIME SUMMONERS LOSE AVATARS IS WHEN ALL PETS ARE LOST (E.G. THE START OF A VOIDWATCH BATTLE).

Threw that in bolded caps so people see it.

Point: BST is the only job that loses pets when they zone. Summoner does not. I can't believe that many people, including Camate, missed that.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You don't lose half a stack of jugs for zoning either. You're blowing the expense part of the argument out of proportion. Yes, you do lose something for zoning with a jug pet out, but it sure ain't 50 orichalcum bullets. A more accurate comparison would be if zoning caused food to wear off. Jobs which benefit greatly from food (heavy DD, mostly) would be at a cost disadvantage when compared to jobs which can usually get away with ignoring food (bard, for example).

Technically you are, quite a few pets last for ~2 hours leaving an area earlier is loosing half+ the pet.

[Phogg]

"Do not compare the entire cost of an entire jug to the price of a half stack of ammo. And do not proceed to compare the cost of losing a pet upon zoning to the cost of losing a half stack of ammo EVERY TIME a ranger zones."

Why not?

99 Orichalcum bullets are 44k on my server.

12 Shadowy Broth are 230k on my server. That's 19k PER PET, which is, the gil equivalent of.........half a stack of ammunition....When I zone my pet with full HP, that is precisely what I am losing. We can compare cheaper ammo to cheaper pets if you like, but the result is the same. That cost does not even consider additional costs per pet during the course of a battle in pet food.

And somehow in SEs perverted logic, allowing them to zone or not be lost to confrontation status should require MORE costly jug pets. Ridiculous.

[Yinnyth]

99 Orichalcum bullets are 44k on my server.

12 Shadowy Broth are 230k on my server. That's 19k PER PET, which is, the gil equivalent of.........half a stack of ammunition....Let's say you only get 30 minutes of use out of that jug before zoning, therefore you get to make use of 25% of what you paid for. That brings the amount of lost gil down to (230,000/12)*0.75= 14,375 gil. Now let's say you zone with a pet summoned 5 times per day (and also 5 times without a pet summoned because it would be silly and impossible to summon a pet before going from Port Jeuno to Lower Jeuno), that brings your daily lost gil to 71,875. Let's compare that to a ranger who loses half a stack of orichalcum bullets everytime they zone, and they zone just as often as you do (10 times). Their daily lost gil would be 22,000 x 10 = 220,000.

220000-71875 = 148125 difference in daily cost incurred
148125/71875 = 206.09% error

I think you and I have different definitions of what "equivalent" means.

Edit: I just realized shadow broth isn't a 120minute broth, so the difference would be bigger than I actually mathed out.

[Phogg]

NVM, I'm not here to argue with someone I'm not sure understands the practical nature of playing BST, I came here to offer my distaste for SEs stance and have done so.

[Mizuharu]

I'm not even a BST main and I still think it is complete horse shit that jug pets depop on zone. Sure, entering a fight (Burning Circle, Voidwatch, Besieged etc) should still do it, as it does with every other pet. But zoning? Horse shit.

[Annalise]

People seemed to miss my previous post.

The reason Camate made is kind of null and void. The 'cost' for BST compared to DRG and PUP in regards to pets zoning.

Camate refers to avatars also not zoning (which is false, and this is key) and it is because, like BST, it is "less of a cost" than it is for DRG and PUP to call pets.

Summoner pets do zone. Summoner pets have by far the lowest cost (I can continually summon pets every ten seconds due to recast of release should I choose to, near indefinitely with the proper gear).

Since the argument is a 'cost issue', and the job with the least cost can zone pets, that isn't a valid argument for why BST cannot zone jugs.

[Calamity]

I think the reasoning behind pup being allowed to keep it's pet is kinda BS too. Yes, Activate has a long timer, but Deus Ex Automata > Deactivate > Activate kinda makes that entire argument moot.

[Vandheer]

Annalise I saw and enjoyed both of your comments on this topic which lead me back to Camate's post to re-read what he said and how exactly he worded his statement.



Wyvern, automatons, and adventuring fellows all have long recast times and if they didn’t carry over between areas, it would be quite a large penalty. Based on this, they will not disappear when changing areas.

This first part is fine and makes perfect sense to me. However... this next bit is funky.



On the other hand, familiar pets and avatars use jugs and cost MP so the penalty is not as large. With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition.
With that said, it is technically possible; however, in the case that pets did not disappear when changing areas, the cost of using that pet to its full extent would be increased (the cost of the jug).

Id love to be given more information on how this conclusion is reached, and perhaps Camate you can ask the dev team, how spending gil is not as large a penalty as a 20 minute recast time? In addition how is it even lesser of a penalty then the mp a summoner uses to call their pets? As Annalise said, summoners zone with their pets just fine with no penalty and we can't ignore that.



With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition.

Yes Camate we do spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, where your wrong is jugs are not like ammunition where you shoot it for a ranged attack we use our jugs to gain fighting power for X ammount of time. You are right however that it is like consumables like some of my favorite Bison Steak because it is boosting me for a duration of time. With that said lets all imagine zoning and you lose your food effect... this is essentialy the same as a Beastmaster losing their pet.

I obviously still don't see the logic behind this Camate and everyone else reading this. If anyone can enlighten us all as to how raising the price of jugs in exchange for zoning pets makes any sense please do.

[Fupafighter]

Not like this will change things once the BST TH Nerf hits.

byebyebandwagondynamisbsts :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

And hi dnc bandwagon.....

[Quetzacoatl]

And hi dnc bandwagon.....

Can't solo without proper TH

[Komori]

TH has little to no effect on coins, forgotten maybe but not coins. As long as you proc, that's what matters.

[Calamity]

Prettymuch. Went last night on bst and did about the same as I usually do. If anything, my inventory just got less spammed by relic and relic -1. I guess we're here to stay

[Fupafighter]

Can't solo without proper TH

Dnc/thf is actually pretty solid.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Can't solo without proper THI go in as nin/dnc and only get about 30% less coins then pre nerf bst.

[Vandheer]

TH has little to no effect on coins, forgotten maybe but not coins. As long as you proc, that's what matters.

That said, why is everyone pro Beastmaster TH nerf saying "wee no more bandwagon bst"? I never had a issue with the TH nerf affecting my dyna runs but its still puzzling.

I've been more concerned with it affecting drops of bst trying to solo anything else. Not like Beastmasters have much choice in the matter either due to how often the job is utilized in group setups. x]

Player 1: "I can come bst, sam whm, blm, war :D"
Player 2: "Anything but bst works..."
Player 1: ";_;"

[Calamity]

As far as dynamis is concerned I'm only noticing 2 differences after the TH nerf. Downside I seem less likely to get a drop if I don't get a proc, although my results with a proc don't really seem to be affected. On the upside though I find my inventory significantly less clogged with accessories and relic -1 by the end of the run.

[Camiie]

That said, why is everyone pro Beastmaster TH nerf saying "wee no more bandwagon bst"? I never had a issue with the TH nerf affecting my dyna runs but its still puzzling.

Basically, people love to see those doing better or having an easier time than them taken down a peg even if there's nothing in it for them. That's pretty much the mentality of the pro-nerf people.

[Vandheer]

Basically, people love to see those doing better or having an easier time than them taken down a peg even if there's nothing in it for them. That's pretty much the mentality of the pro-nerf people.

Trolls... all of them... >_> If a job is doing well you should think about how to utilize it, not how to go about kicking them in the shins until they fall down to their knees. Like when smn's figured out they could astral burn and people worked with them to do it, now we have fell cleave. Sure Beastmaster having TH3 isn't as easy to utilize as either of those but bst can fill the roll of stalling if something were to go wrong in a group wipeout while others get back up and dust themselves off while offering some filler for the groups lacking a thf or now rng for TH.

Perhaps I'm being an idealist here but... >,>

[Quetzacoatl]

Dnc/thf is actually pretty solid.

Need more locked subjob for dat white, duo with THF/DNC!


I go in as nin/dnc and only get about 30% less coins then pre nerf bst.

y u even do that to begin with? :[

[Fupafighter]

Need more locked subjob for dat white, duo with THF/DNC!



y u even do that to begin with? :[
I meant solo dnc/thf is solid. Proc, sneak attack exent pushes 2k usually, profit. And dnc gets tp helluva lot faster than bst. Yes, dnc and thf duo is good for white(if you do EP mobs), which i would never fight EP mobs as a duo with dnc. And my theory on why he goes nin/dnc is that maybe he doesn't like bst, dnc, or thf? lol. Let the man play the game haha.

[Arkitan]

Japanese logic WILL give you a brain aneurysm!

[Caketime]

My sides hurt from reading Camate's response, the laughter was just too intense. It's not surprising though, SE has always been notoriously bad at understanding simple logic and the mechanics of their own game when formulating posts designed to shoot down any logical ideas presented by the community. Why is this forum here again? Clearly communication is not it, because there is a total disconnect here between the players and our most beloved community manager.

lol @ BST TP comment. Firstly, why compare any job to DNC's TP gain? It's like comparing a bicycle to a sports car. Secondly, multi-hit axes. GET YOU SOME.