[dev1076] Healing Adjustments

[Tile]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20089-dev1076-Healing-Adjustments?p=268359&viewfull=1#post268359

did i read this wrong or will gear that boosts Cure pot. also boost Waltz?

[Alerith]

I believe they are talking about the stats on the gear that affect curing. "Cure Potency" and "Waltz Potency". Not the base potency of the cures and waltzes themselves.

Basically they are adjusting it so that you get a greater bonus when various stats that increase potency are stacked.

[Aleste]

All they're changing is so that 'potency' and 'potency received' don't stack together under a 50% cap.

Cure + "Cure Potency" (Cap50%) => Resultant Cure
Resultant Cure + "Potency of Cure Recieved" (Cap30%) => HP amount target actually gets healed by.

Replace cure with waltz for the same effect.

[Kristal]

All they're changing is so that 'potency' and 'potency received' don't stack together under a 50% cap.

It's less confusing to say that 'potency' and 'potency received' will be different effects with different caps.
They stack before and after the update, but in different manners so the total cap is +95% rather then the current +50%

They will have to add/change Potency Received gear, as I think the only item right now with such an effect is Oneiros Earring (+5%).

[Damane]

This change doesnt help RDMs and SCH at all lol. Which Tank/Melee is gonna swap to cure potency recieved gear, when shit is hitting the fan lol. It is too late before you can change to that. Bad idea is bad... They should have just lifted the cure potency cap and added more cure potency gear period

[Kristal]

This change doesnt help RDMs and SCH at all lol. Which Tank/Melee is gonna swap to cure potency recieved gear, when shit is hitting the fan lol. It is too late before you can change to that. Bad idea is bad... They should have just lifted the cure potency cap and added more cure potency gear period

It depends on the gear, and at this point there's very little. I could imagine SE adding a high def tanking set with lots of Damage Taken-, Enmity+ and Cure Potency Received stats, but less offensive stats. (They've done worse.)

[Helel]

It's for the cor roll obviously. They even have a picture of the roll on the announcement.

And this:


Basically they are adjusting it so that you get a greater bonus when various stats that increase potency are stacked.

is wrong, so I'm not sure why it was rated up. Cure potency, and the "stats" (huh?) that affect cure potency are exactly the same. The only thing that they changed is the formula for determining the final cure value. Now the cure received effect is multiplied at the end of the equation (up to 30%) for a final cure boost of up to 95%. This final cure boost is what was modified, not cure potency (which is still 50%).

[cidbahamut]

It's for the cor roll obviously. They even have a picture of the roll on the announcement.


This won't change the fact that the new Healer's Roll is still utterly worthless and will never be used.

[Phafi]

http://www.onesadpanda.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/sad_panda_painting.jpg

[Mirabelle]

This won't change the fact that the new Healer's Roll is still utterly worthless and will never be used.

I wouldn't say that. There are fights that use PLD's. There are fights where a COR might be in a tank party as the LS has two COR's available. Now would Healer's, Gallants be a better choice for the Tank over Misers/Chaos? Maybe. I've seen fights where keeping the tank alive was harder than keeping hate. Certainly a tank can improve his offense with gear and food. There's not much great defensive food out there.

Stack -PDT, phalanx, Gallants roll, Scherzo and Healer's roll and you have a pretty strong blood tank. Might be useful somewhere. Maybe for early runs through VW where you don't have temps yet.

I know its very FFXI forum cool to trash everything as "utterly worthless". But I think the better meme is "$hit is situational". Given how rare it is for a mage to kneel for hMP these days, cure potency received that goes above the cap isn't without merit.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Pld is there to hold adds or shield bash. 90% of the ones I find certainly aren't there to hold hate, or tank.

[cidbahamut]

I know its very FFXI forum cool to trash everything as "utterly worthless". But I think the better meme is "$hit is situational".

Point taken.

I just wish we didn't have to lose out on the old roll to get the new effect.

[Alhanelem]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20089-dev1076-Healing-Adjustments?p=268359&viewfull=1#post268359

did i read this wrong or will gear that boosts Cure pot. also boost Waltz?
You read it wrong.

All it's saying is that "Cure (or waltz) effects recieved" now stacks with cure potency beyond the normal cure potency limit.

Before, if you had or used any "+X% all cure effects recieved" gear, and the person casting cure was at max cure potency, the cure effect recieved gear would have absolutely zero effect. With this change, these items will be able to increase the effect of cures beyond the normal 50% limit (and are in fact applied to the boosted healing amount instead of increasing the base amount of potency)

As others said, this is obviously aimed at the new healer's roll, which grants this effect.

[Raksha]

Also, this is only "the first part" of the healing changes.

Let's hope the rest of the changes will actually be useful.

[Juilan]

I don't see how they get +95% when 1)is +50% and 2)is +30%, last I checked that was 80%

[SpankWustler]

I don't see how they get +95% when 1)is +50% and 2)is +30%, last I checked that was 80%

1 * 1.5 = 1.5

1.5 * 1.3 = 1.95

Cure Potency Received will be calculated after Cure Potency.

As of right now, it's kind of a pointless change. Now some folks can equip Oneiros Earring instead of whatever for curing themselves for a minor gain.

If "Potency of Cures received" ends up on stuff that can actually be used somehow, such as gear with otherwise good TP-set stats or buffs that don't have to fight against Miser's/Tactician's/Chaos Roll for their right to exist, then this change might mean something.

[detlef]

1.5 x 1.3 = 1.95

[Babekeke]

This won't change the fact that the new Healer's Roll is still utterly worthless and will never be used.

New Healer's Roll on a party for guaranteed free curagas with Orison Pantaloons +2. You kill stuff faster if your DDs don't die, so bonuses to keeping them alive > letting them rip hate and get squashed. Also means no waiting around for un-weak at the end of every fight, just move onto next rift.

Also, Penury Cure 5s should now also be free.

[Raksha]

You kill stuff faster if your DDs don't die

You also kill stuff faster if you do more damage to it.

[Babekeke]

You also kill stuff faster if you do more damage to it.

Which you don't if your DDs are dead, then weakened, then dead again, then 5 min wait before next fight because you're waiting for weakened. It's entirely up to the party (or more particularly, the COR) but I'd go for killing steadily with everyone alive, over kill really fast for 30 secs then slowly because everyone died.

[cidbahamut]

Sounds like a situation where you'd be better off just throwing more White Mages at the problem.

*shrug*

[Mirabelle]

More WHM's do not increase your proc abilities. A stronger WHM will leave room for another proc'ing job.

[Raksha]

More WHM's do not increase your proc abilities. A stronger WHM will leave room for another proc'ing job.

I think what he's saying is that if you need Healer's roll to survive whatever you're fighting, then an extra WHM would be better.

[Motenten]

But a second whm offers nothing to increase damage output (assuming the first whm was already handling hastes). The cor at least has a second roll, plus his/her own damage, and can change which rolls are used based on what's immediately needed. It's not going to be commonplace, but I can see it being situationally useful.

Anyway, more interested in knowing if this is just another minor convenience patch (which it seems to be, along with the rest that were announced in the last couple days), and if they're still continuing with the 'real' adjustments to the healing formulas.

[Raksha]

But a second whm offers nothing to increase damage output (assuming the first whm was already handling hastes). The cor at least has a second roll, plus his/her own damage, and can change which rolls are used based on what's immediately needed. It's not going to be commonplace, but I can see it being situationally useful.


Group leader: We don't have adequate healing.
Member: K i'll switch to COR.

everyone else:

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/GizmoHarris42/DavidSilverman.jpg

Sure I can imagine a potential situation where a whm is overkill and a cor would be just right, but it seems so rare as to be absurd.

[SpankWustler]

New Healer's Roll on a party for guaranteed free curagas with Orison Pantaloons +2. You kill stuff faster if your DDs don't die, so bonuses to keeping them alive > letting them rip hate and get squashed. Also means no waiting around for un-weak at the end of every fight, just move onto next rift.

Also, Penury Cure 5s should now also be free.

I think, in Voidwatch at least, casting times and recast timers would become an issue before MP cost if something were tearing that many people apart. Healer's Roll would be more likely to become useful by making Cure IV/Curaga III viable than by saving MP. Also, a defensive Roll wouldn't be doing much while Fanatic's Drinks were active or the monster was terrorized.

This is an interesting point, though, even if it's a bit of stretch to apply to Voidwatch. Legion is already known to have tight time limits and constant fighting that punishes people for being weakened or needing to rest, will presumably have monsters capable of doing a lot of damage, and will presumably not have any temporary items to restore MP.

[Motenten]

Group leader: We don't have adequate healing.
Member: K i'll switch to COR.

You have that backwards. If you have someone available to do cor, they should already be on cor. It's:

Group leader: We don't have adequate healing.
Cor: I'll change a roll to Healer's Roll to help the healers keep up.

instead of

Group leader: We don't have adequate healing.
Cor: K i'll switch to Whm.

If you don't already have someone on cor then the entire argument is moot (and silly).

[Raksha]

You have that backwards. If you have someone available to do cor, they should already be on cor. It's:

Group leader: We don't have adequate healing.
Cor: I'll change a roll to Healer's Roll to help the healers keep up.

instead of

Group leader: We don't have adequate healing.
Cor: K i'll switch to Whm.

If you don't already have someone on cor then the entire argument is moot (and silly).


It was an exaggeration to point out the absurdity.

But, so be it. I trust your judgement if you think that healer's roll will actually make that much of a difference.

[Neisan_Quetz]

The problem is the number of rolls Cor can keep up, which is still limited to 2. And the fact most of VW is proc > temp > zerg.

Can see it possibly being useful for legion however.

[FrankReynolds]

I'm totally clueless as to the cure potency received gear, as most of it seems really pointless right now. If you cast curaga on yourself, with potency received gear on, does the rest of the group receive the bonus? or just you? for example if I cast curaga 3 on me with %30 in gear does it go
<me> 520 hp recovered
<player2> 400 hp recovered
?

[Alhanelem]

Recieved = just the person with the cure potency recieved effect.

It is calculated on each target, so no, you can't cast curaga on yourself iwth the cure effect recieved bonus to give it to everyone.

[Byrth]

Though I can't see into the mind of SE, this update note also gives the impression that Dancer's Waltz potency + Waltz Potency received caps at 50% currently. This may be true, but it irrelevant because Waltz Potency caps at 30% and there are currently no sources of Waltz Potency received.

I am with Motenten. I would like to see a legitimate re-work of the Healing Magic and Waltz formulae. I haven't thought much about how the Healing magic formula should change, but Waltz I think I know.


If you take this formula (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Waltz)for Waltzes, you need to decrease B a little and increase M a lot. I would recommend something like this:
Curing Waltz: .5, 40
Curing Waltz II: 1, 100
Curing Waltz III: 1.5, 220
Curing Waltz IV: 2.5, 250
Curing Waltz V: 4, 280

If a good Dancer with a solid Waltz set can get about 120 CHR, and their target has about 80 VIT, then they could heal for 639, 922, and 1328 HP respectively with 23% Waltz Potency. If their target had about 120 VIT (turtle PLD), then they could heal for 713, 1045, and 1525 HP respectively. I prefer this adjustment because it allows us to heal higher VIT targets for more HP, as opposed to the current system where it essentially doesn't matter what the person's VIT is.

The particular values I gave also result in higher Waltz III/IV/Vs for good players and no substantial change for players that don't have any CHR in their Waltz sets. As a result, Waltzes from dedicated Dancers are stronger than current Waltzes, which could result in Balance issues. This is essentially just another thing that we've been asking for for years in disguise, lowered recast timers. Give our Waltzes a potency boost so that we can stop bugging you about recast timers. Being able to Waltz III for 900 HP in Voidwatch wouldn't be broken, it would be necessary if you want to see Dancer play a supporting role there.