Adjustments to "Prelude to Puissance" (lvl 99 limit quest)

[Camate]

Hello!

We had two objectives in the adjustments we implemented right before the version update: relieving congestion and increasing the probability of winning/allowing this content to be completed with fewer players.

We believe that we were able to accomplish our first objective, but regarding our second objective, players seem to feel like this content is still too difficult. Since there are still players who are unable to complete this quest, we will further enhance the effects of the enfeeble items.

To be specific, we are evaluating the following adjustments:

Increase effect duration
Make it impossible to flee
Regular attacks cannot be used also during the effect duration
Multiple weaponskills will no longer be used immediately after the effects wear off


If you have any opinions on our proposed adjustments, please send us your feedback.

[Alhanelem]

Eh, it doesn't really need to be changed. Players need a test like this to demonstrate competency with their jobs.

[Mifaco]

Weeds out the idiots and the noobs. Keep it as is.

[Fredjan]

I'd say keep it as is, too.

[Seyomeyo]

Keep it as it is. Fact of the matter is that it's a more straightforward fight without even using the "enfeebling" item. The fight's easy enough to win even without superbly-geared players if you have the right setup.

[Tagus]

I'd agree. I went 1/1, and the time I won, I mistakenly put a group together without a tank because I thought one of our BLM's was coming PLD, and still won. Only reason I mention my mistake is because it illustrates something specific... if you can win something when you forget to bring a tank, it's easy enough.

[Tohihroyu]

But if the JP vote for a change, even with many non Japanese saying to leave it alone the JP will win :/

[JTF]

Hello!

We had two objectives in the adjustments we implemented right before the version update: relieving congestion and increasing the probability of winning/allowing this content to be completed with fewer players.

We believe that we were able to accomplish our first objective, but regarding our second objective, players seem to feel like this content is still too difficult. Since there are still players who are unable to complete this quest, we will further enhance the effects of the enfeeble items.

To be specific, we are evaluating the following adjustments:


Increase effect duration
Make it impossible to flee
Regular attacks cannot be used also during the effect duration
Multiple weaponskills will no longer be used immediately after the effects wear off



If you have any opinions on our proposed adjustments, please send us your feedback.

Don't change it. It's an easy enough fight if you prepare or have the right setup. Don't dumb it down.

[Draylo]

FFXI is too hard, plz change it

[ManaKing]

Because finding 6 mages and getting 2 enfeebling items is hard....

[Babekeke]

This will now be soloable on MNK, possibly other jobs too >.>

[Sonshou]

Does that mean they gonna make the fight more dependable on the enfeebling item?

From what I read is that, the only change is the effect of the enfeebling item, nothing changed to the fight iteself.
Making the enfeebling effect last longer and will not one shoot people right after effect wear off, melee attack doesn't work when taru is running around.........

Ranger arrow burn? 6 ranger go in and make him run around and fire thousand arrows at him?

[Kraggy]

Don't change it. It's an easy enough fight if you prepare or have the right setup. Don't dumb it down.
Yup, as usual, it's easy with the 'right' group and sucks to be you if you're not a required job.

Also, those saying how easy it is probably have spammed Aby and VW for months and have the best gear and relics or better. There are MANY 95s with barely anything better than Perle/etc. for whom this mindless DPS zerg requires more than they can deliver, this fight was clearly initially tuned for those willing to melt their minds with lolprocfests in Aby.

For this fight ATM, gear >>>> skill, which is NOT what a Limit Break should be about, at all.

[RAIST]

Actually, it is more dependant on your strategy/skill than gear...went 1/1 with a motley crew with little better than +1 empy and I think two had level 90 empy weapons---PLD didn't have a trial shield, but his skills were capped. Wasn't a mage or TP burn either, more a typical party setup. It's more about having a well thought out plan before going in...and if your plan fails, review, revamp, try a new strategy until you get the win.

[JTF]

Yup, as usual, it's easy with the 'right' group and sucks to be you if you're not a required job.

Also, those saying how easy it is probably have spammed Aby and VW for months and have the best gear and relics or better. There are MANY 95s with barely anything better than Perle/etc. for whom this mindless DPS zerg requires more than they can deliver, this fight was clearly initially tuned for those willing to melt their minds with lolprocfests in Aby.

For this fight ATM, gear >>>> skill, which is NOT what a Limit Break should be about, at all.

For this fight, there are quite a few 'right' setups. Just read some of the strategy posts for this fight on the various boards. Many different types of party work and some only need 4 or 5 people so even someone on an 'unwanted' job can just come along for the ride.

[Coldbrand]

Keep it as it is, do you know how hard the old genkai used to be dude? It felt like a serious achievment getting that papyrus, and I remember being blown away by how deadly exorays were.

[Runespider]

Wtf is wrong with you people?

FFXI is full of players that are very casual that are struggling to clear this fight, we had our fun/difficult fight and we enjoyed it/cleared it (although many used gimmiks like PDlol and think they did something skillfull)

Let them add stronger items so people can get past it, if people can't beat maat they level anotehr job and beat it on that. If people can't clear this fight then they can use stronger items, no difference.

This isn't an endgame event where if you suck you can't beat the NM, this is a limit break quest that people should be allowed to progress through (even if they aren't the best players or have limited job selection/friends).

[Dragoy]

I have been waiting for an adjustment to the tail actually, as it was rather useless (to me) in the way that it favours basically Ranged Attacks only, and the other use it possibly has is to perhaps give a breather and/or evade the hundreds of fists.

Only viable ranged attack I have is from Archery as a Samurai, and I tried on the test-server if I could even hit it with that and well, it seemed next to useless.
As a Black Mage, I got something around 30-40% off, with only Empyrean +2 gear and some INT rings and earrings that I could find.

As said, it is not a difficult fight with enough players, and certainly can be made easier by having certain jobs, but I'm still thinking it should have been more like the battle with Maat...
Stating that this fight tests one's might, is a bit off I think since obviously it can't be done alone. I'm not saying that each one contributing are not making a difference, but you're still depending on other players mostly, while with Maat, you are all alone, and can only blame yourself (and the game of course!) for defeat.

Note that they are (for now) seemingly only changing how the enfeebling item works, not the other parts of the fight. Though it's not that it is 'too hard with the item', it's more like the item is just broken and they're trying to fix it. So I, for one, am a little bit excited even to try again after the changes, as I am planning to win it with as few as possible (to me), and I don't have a rush to get to 99 at all.
Think of it it as a challenge of sorts. ^^;

I did try it with a full party a couple of times, with half of the party being Monks and me being a Samurai, feeling useless mostly and I don't like that. =/


What I guess I'm trying to say is that this could be seen coming already from the day the battle was implemented on the test-server, and it is, fer sure, a welcome change anticipated by many. ^^

Saying it's not needed and shouldn't be done (it is broken, you know) is quite something...

[Kavik]

I have done this fight w/ 5 bsts and a thf, i have done this fight with 4 bsts and a cor and last night i beat it with 5 bsts and a rdm. And i have done this with 3 blm a pld whm and a dnc, and rdm. The previous 7 attempts were with combinations of mnks and smn's w/ alex. At one point we had no weakness item and a different time we had 2. It is NOT a hard fight and if you have the right combination of help you can get it done as any job. LEAVE IT ALONE!

[Kensagaku]

Keep it the same! People complain that it's too hard for "casuals", but the thing is even casuals can do this if they go in with a decent strategy. Our first run we had a bit of bad luck even with an Ochain PLD and a Kannagi NIN (me). HF+Enfire took me down and then he turned and Smited the PLD for 3.8k out of the blue, and our remaining members (BST, RDM, WHM, BRD) had to end up kiting it. Surprisingly, our full-Perle BST LSmate won the fight for us (and doesn't let us forget it to this day) because the rest kited it/recovered despite the two main DDs getting knocked out.

It's not that people can't win this fight just because they're casuals. You just need to plan accordingly. Have multiple people bring the enfeebling item and pop it during Hundred Fists to avoid it. Mages need a breather to rest some MP because you've taken a beating? Toss an enfeebling item to give them a chance to rest (though you really should bring a BRD/COR/RDM for Refresh in some form). Things looking ugly, and you need a chance to get people up? Start kiting, and if your kiter has an enfeeble, pop it at some point during the kiting to let people work towards unweakening. The thing is, people don't understand simple strategy these days; they seem to expect that smashing faces in while curing has to be the only way to beat a boss. Those of you who did some of the harder Maats for your cap (particularly RDM) know that there's more to it than that.

As someone said earlier in the thread: "If you couldn't beat Maat, you leveled another job and beat him on that." With Abyssea these days, it's easy to level a "right" job for this. Technically with half a brain you don't even need a "right" setup:

Got PUP or MNK? You're prolly useful with that damage cap since individual hits aren't too high but come with two hits per round, breaking down your greater damage into two hits so more gets through. And PUP has a backup healer if needed, meaning that they can take some of the burden (automaton pun unintended) off of the healers.

Got DRG? Toss on a Quint Spear. Sure you're doing less damage but with that cap you're getting in more overall thanks to your multihits. Same with SAM, and even WAR because of that damage cap. Bring a RDM/SCH or SCH/RDM along and Accession up an Enspell for them and bam, fast, high damage because Enspells ignore the limit. THF and DNC can fall under this too, though if you have a DNC they might have to avoid Haste Samba for the Enspells, I'm not really sure which would have better DPS.

BSTs? Get a fast pet, have everyone bring the old enfeebling item, and then toss the items out when your pets need healing. Since pets like Faithful Falcorr and Gorefang Hobs run at a high movespeed, they can keep up and continue damaging the taru even while he's running away.

SMN? Join a mage/pet burn, or hell, get Alexander and you'll be useful for absorbing HF or just saving the day if you used all your Rarab tails up and people are getting weakened.

COR and BRD? Your role should be obvious: ballads/evoker's roll for the mages, boost the melee with Haste (BRD), or DA/Attack Delay (COR) so that despite the damage cap they're still getting in more hits for more overall damage. COR can also joined Ranged setups along with RNG or BLM.

My point is that though I didn't list every job, all of them have potential to get through this fight in some way, shape, or form. Have everyone bring Rarab tails, and plan on using them when crises arrive. Surviving his hits is going to be the hardest part, but a good shadow tank (MNK/DNC/THF come to mind, if not PLD or NIN itself) with healing support can take the hits up until HF, in which you'll probably need the tail to save you from the Flaming Fists of Doom. Anyone, even casuals, can work their way past the 95->99 cap as long as they're willing to look at what they've got and make a valid strategy. It just takes planning and a bit of preparation (like buying Vile Elixirs for mages, getting Rarab Tails) to win.

[RAIST]

First time ever trying this fight, PLD, BST, THF, DRK, MNK, SCH, with 5 tails.

PLD did not have any trials shield, most of us were only 92/93---I was on 92 MNK with Barracudas +2 (Store TP) and about 2/3 my usual load out (hasty job change). BST used Falcorr. Otherwise, don't recall anything really unusual. Everyone used dual wield setup or high TP gain weapon choice and best multi-hit WS.

NOTE THIS WAS OUR VERY FIRST ATTEMPT:

Buffed up, used a stack of sleep pots and opo to get PLD, BST, THF, DRK to 100% TP. PLD went in to grab hate, MNK boosted and Chi Blasted (Penance), we unloaded our TP and beat on him with standard fight mechanics to get him to almost 50%, popped tail. Ran around with him without target lock so we could score the occasional hit (note some of us still had regain from the SCH). DRK would stun and we would unload WS's on him. Just as tail is wearing, popped another tail....same thing, chase, thwack, stun, WS. When Chi blast was up, hit him again to nerf his TP gain again. Rinse/repeat. Think we used 3 tails total, forget if it was 2 or 3--my turn never came up.

WIN

Now... what was soooooo hard about that? We had a plan to work with the setup we had, and we followed it.

FIRST TRY, WIN WITH NO SPECIAL PARTY SETUP

Edit:
Oh, and for the record....done this fight 3 more times on last minute notice with other mixed groups with the same BST and SCH from the first run while on my SMN and got the wins with NEVER USING PD. In fact, I didn't even HAVE it--we just went out and duoed Alex and Odin two weeks ago because I lost my last run because it was mage heavy and they got raped and I was left having to kite the bugger all over the arena with avatars until we timed out.

[Runespider]

You all realise that they aren't actually asking for opinions on if they should nerf it or not right? They are going to nerf it, they are asking which people think are the best ideas to nerf it but for it to remain some kind of challenge to the kind of players that can't get past it now.

[wish12oz]

I quad boxed this fight with 2 other gimps and all my characters were basically naked, and we went 1/1, and 2 of mine were even lvl 91. You just have to not be bad.

But really, 5 naked monks and an alex smn = win. 6 naked blms with a few different spells and the enfeebling item = win. And with the ease of leveling in abyssea, if you have to lvl one of these jobs, it will only take you 2 days at the most, I don't see anything to complain about.

[Kluaf]

does this fall under the: well i twried with 4 whm/brd and didnt win please nerf it category ???
Seriously i would love to know the numbers on the part timers who are complaining they cant get this done. I find myself stalking the shouts on ah.com and i havent seen any LB shouts. Hardcore or full time players that still need this come on really i cant believe they exist ...
We need a Jim Mora jpeg screaming LimitBreak really LimitBreak dont talk to me about LimitBreak!!

[Luvbunny]

One of the best news about update this week. Thank you Camate for informing us - a much needed update indeed - really appreciate it and it's nice to see when the developers listened to what the majority wants.

[Absolutezero]

Fight seemed pretty easy, they should leave it as is, and work on other things more in need of adjustments. But if changes need to be made maybe they can just up the drop rate on the items or allow people who have completed the fight to buy the enfeebling item from an npc. That way its not such a pain to try again should you fail, and others will be more willing to help.

[Brolic]

at this point who cares?

the only people that haven't beaten it a two months(?) later are people too lazy to advance their mules

[Tiberius]

As based on my character level, it's obvious I haven't completed this fight yet. So these proposed adjustments are aimed at myself and others who are having difficulty with it. it will affect us the most, as opposed to players who have already completed the content, yet still feel compelled to weigh in on this idea...as if it affects their gameplay in the slightest.

My opinion is that all of the proposed items should be implemented to facilitate an easier time toward the level cap. We've already gotten to the point where people will have to shout for hours for this particular fight. And as the number of legitimate participants wanes, interest in helping others out for victory will too, leaving a barrier to those just meeting the requirements. Thus, adjustments over time to lower the difficulty are needed to keep the final limit break operational/accessible to those people.

[Camiie]

at this point who cares?

the only people that haven't beaten it a two months(?) later are people too lazy to advance their mules


Contrary to popular belief there are new and returning people showing up all the time.

[Kensagaku]

It will affect us the most, as opposed to players who have already completed the content, yet still feel compelled to weigh in on this idea...as if it affects their gameplay in the slightest.

I hate to be a pessimist on this one, but it does affect the gameplay of those who worked harder and got it done before. First off, it weakens the feeling of "hey, I managed to accomplish something." Just like for those of us who have completed the CoP storyline pre-nerf the achievement is cheapened by people who breezed through the uncapped fights. Maybe it's just me on this point, but honestly I find it frustrating to go through the hard work only to have the people complaining "I don't want to try and put together a reasonable strategy so nerf it." It just takes the skill aspect out of the challenge.

The second thing to me is that it's a different level of dedication. A person who just leeches his way or has the easy way up to the higher tiers is suddenly thrust into an environment where they may not have the level of skill to deal with it. When I see broken-Perle melee (and I don't mean broken with something better, I mean someone wasting their haste set bonus for something small fulltimed) at level 99, or 99 BLUs without all their proc spells, etc etc etc, it really frustrates me to no end. Especially with things like higher-level Voidwatch, where even with all the temp items you have it's a tricky fight, and one or two bad players just screws you up.

It's not that I'm against helping people get to the 99 cap, honestly. It's just that I honestly don't think those who can't think outside the box to get there shouldn't be there. Get your LS to help (and if they won't help better their members, there's a problem there anyway...), especially if shouting isn't working. Or do a combination of both. Try different strategies, different job combinations (see my post on the last page for examples) and most of all, don't just give up because it doesn't work once or twice.

[Tiberius]

What do "feelings" & "dedication" in regards to climbing that wall when content was harder have to do with the present day? What you're referencing is strictly about e-peen stroking, and has nothing to do with the current topic. What you did & accomplished back then does not and should not have any bearing on what others do today. What the point is now is that certain content will be doable by those who cannot do it under the circumstances, and by those who are late-comers to the field. We're talking about present & future content adjustments...this "back-in-my-day" mindset is meaningless, and does nothing to address this situation.



It's not that I'm against helping people get to the 99 cap, honestly. It's just that I honestly don't think those who can't think outside the box to get there shouldn't be there.

If you were taking about semi-exclusive endgame content, then maybe I'd agree. But it's kind of condescending to dictate who should and shouldn't "be there" (there, being LV96+) because you think they somehow aren't worthy enough. Your opinions on their worth are irrelevant, as are your "feelings" & "dedication" towards content that you have already finished but others haven't. The topic at hand is that of present & future gameplay elements pertaining to basic character growth for players who are lagging behind.

[Kensagaku]

And they're lagging behind because they don't have the skill to properly deal with an unorthodox party setup or find people to help them. Shouts aren't always the answers; make friends, or ask your LSmates. If neither can help you? I think you've got more problems in-game than a level cap. As I've stated, I've listed different uses for different jobs back at page two. It's not that people can't do it, it's because they want the easy button. And because of this easy button, people aren't "earning" their keep.

What is the point of jumping up the ranks if they cannot handle content at that level? So they can die over and over, or leech good items off of the other people in their party/alliance who actually do work while they lay dead on the ground? I'm using the whole "back in my day" mindset simply because back in the day, people actually had to work to get stuff. It wasn't just handed to them on a silver platter. Old CoP missions? I remember trying to figure out how to coordinate a group on Ouryu, and even with an unorthodox group we somehow managed a win. I remember when things were actually challenging, yet people took the time to work out strategies, to figure out how to put together what they had to make a win.

Again, I'm not against people getting to 99. I'm against people doing so without any idea of how to handle endgame from 96-99. This fight is not hard, contrary to belief, as long as you have a proper strategy. Hell, look at the top of page 3, that's a great testimony to an odd group without "elitist" gear managing to tear their way through the fight through the use of ingenuity. The reason they have the final tier of levels is because they actually worked at it.

All this update is going to do is leave the fight up to six items while he just sits there and gets beaten up without even putting up a fight. Long duration, he won't run away, he won't even attack. He won't use multiple weapon skills after, no problem with that, but the fact is that he won't even do ANYTHING for the duration of the tails you have. That's not strategy, that's a slaughter. And that's what you want, simply because you yourself cannot put forth a little work to try an unorthodox or unusual strategy. You want an easy button.

[Tiberius]

Yep, I definitely want it to be easier. Not even going to mask it. I want this fight to be passable by even the most casual, detached players in the game.

So...what's wrong? Because they don't have to work as hard as you did, that means your efforts are watered down? Someone decides to solo the Promyvion bosses at a high level, and somehow that's a slap in the face to you and those like you that did the content under more extreme circumstances years ago? Get real...it shouldn't matter at all to you, because you wouldn't even deign to involve yourself with a player of such low caliber. That is quite clear from your words. Please don't misunderstand me--I don't have a problem with you choosing that. But what Camate is proposing is hardly meeting the standard of allowing what you see as low caliber rabble to mooch off of others in high-stakes endgame content. It's only a limit break, nothing more. Players assigned too much merit to this fight simply because the previous four limits were just turn-in quests. "Ooh, a party-based BC fight? This will separate the men from the boys!"

Well, you have your cred. Which is why it's only logical that you would want to uphold it by disagreeing with the proposals stated in the OP. But what you fail to comprehend is that, after the addition of Abyssea, trying to reinforce CoP standards of what difficulty should be right now & in the future dealing with even the most basic of trials like a limit break, is asking the game to regress from the growth it has undertaken. A failure to evolve with the needs of its playerbase...that is a sounding of the death knell to FFXI. The "back-in-my-day" demographic basically telling anyone not as good/well-geared as they were to shove off because they can't hang with what's given to them. There will always be time for people to fully immerse themselves in their job roles, and learn how to play it faithfully & dutifully. Again, this is not endgame content we're talking about. It's just a limit break, and there's no need to uphold it to those standards.

[Tagus]

I don't think that people are necessarily trying to sound all elite by saying this fight is easy. It really just is a very simple fight, with multiple set-ups and strategies capable of winning easily. Maybe you've had some bad luck, but like I said earlier, I forgot to bring a tank, and won. FORGOT TO BRING A TANK. Think about that. You can't really even compare it to CoP in terms of difficulty without expecting criticism. In my personal experience, I was stuck on the 3 paths mission for 5 months, and took 10+ tries to beat some of those BC's, so it's almost borderline insulting to my (admittedly silly) sense of the game's history to even mention it in the same breath.

I've personally tried to support every attempt by the dev's to make this game easier, less of a timesink, more accessible to the casual player, etc... because I'm married and have a baby now, and want to still function in this game at some respectable level as a hobby. It's hard to keep up with the new equipment, weapons, etc... But this fight... it's really just hard enough to require thought and bare-minimum preparation, and that's about it. Nerfing it isn't going to ruin anybody's sense of accomplishment, but it seems like they're aiming the nerf gun in the wrong direction, that's all. I mean, look at some of the trials they're putting people through right now.

[Runespider]

I hate to be a pessimist on this one, but it does affect the gameplay of those who worked harder and got it done before. First off, it weakens the feeling of "hey, I managed to accomplish something." Just like for those of us who have completed the CoP storyline pre-nerf the achievement is cheapened by people who breezed through the uncapped fights. Maybe it's just me on this point, but honestly I find it frustrating to go through the hard work only to have the people complaining "I don't want to try and put together a reasonable strategy so nerf it." It just takes the skill aspect out of the challenge.

I got my relic when they took years, now they can be done solo in under 3-4 months. I got my king drops when you had to compete with botters, now you can collect 99 seals and force pop and duo them. I got my emp at 85 when the NMs were actually quite a bit more annoying, now they are all even more of a joke than they used to be.

The game is built on it starting out hard and being made easier so more people can do the content, they even said this is their design ideal in the last interview. The idea of a game is to have a challenge, the original fight isn't a challenge to the people that can't clear it so it needs to be nerfed to be one to them. You had your fun with it, now let people that are having pronlems with it have theirs.

[Ravenmore]

If this was a solo fight it would be one thing but its not. No matter how good you are or how weak you think the fight is already the fact remains there are still people you pick up in shouts that can and will screw you over. Much of it is from 99s thinking it was a cake walk and slacking off. Started to see that after the 8th time I helped with the fight people were getting sloppy. Hell people thinking it is easy are the real problem if think its so easy they don't pay attention and can make a lolfight into a fail.

To all those whinning about changing it how many times will you go help people with this. Thats why they are changing it. It was real easy to get a group together when the whole server was needing to do it. Now if you just came back from a break your SoL if friends and lses are gone or rarely play.

[wish12oz]

We've already gotten to the point where people will have to shout for hours for this particular fight.


No matter how good you are or how weak you think the fight is already the fact remains there are still people you pick up in shouts that can and will screw you over.

Make friends (`ヘ´) If you move to Odin and I'll be your friend cat!

[Dragoy]

Please, make the Tarooo do the /dance4 (as it looks the least awkward of them all when looped) while 'enfeebled'. ^^

I guess /panic would work, too, but in the end, I'd assume they already have something decided.


Blubb.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Eh, it doesn't really need to be changed. Players need a test like this to demonstrate competency with their jobs.It dose not do this in any way, shape or form. 90+% of all the people who do this did mnkx4, brd, smn. The only thing it proves is that they can level a bandwagon job.

[Camiie]

I haven't had issues doing this fight either for myself or while helping others. That being said, people need to realize that this is about unlocking the ability to level. It is NOT a barometer for making sure one player meets another player's standard of skill.

[Ravenmore]

Make friends (`ヘ´) If you move to Odin and I'll be your friend cat!

Thanx for the offer but its friends coming back that didn't make the first rush that has me dreading this fight. They are making it easier for gimps, new people, or returning players but they are also making it easier for those helping seeing how most helping with the fight will have done the fight.

[Zarchery]

Yup, as usual, it's easy with the 'right' group and sucks to be you if you're not a required job.

Also, those saying how easy it is probably have spammed Aby and VW for months and have the best gear and relics or better. There are MANY 95s with barely anything better than Perle/etc. for whom this mindless DPS zerg requires more than they can deliver, this fight was clearly initially tuned for those willing to melt their minds with lolprocfests in Aby.

For this fight ATM, gear >>>> skill, which is NOT what a Limit Break should be about, at all.

The people saying "fight is easy and anyone who finds it challenging is an idiot" are the same class of people endlessly bellyaching over the Voidwatch drop system and the level 99 weapon trials. Which is what makes those trials so satisfying. Sorta karmic retribution.

[Sp1cyryan]

I hate how he runs around after using the item as if I didn't get tired of chasing down mobs while not being able to hit them (yet they can in the opposite situation) as they go after the RNGs, BLMs, and WHM or RDM of days old in xp PTs, dynamis, and various event's for the six years I have played.

Overall just lower his WS damage.

The fight is only a challenge depending how you look at it:

* 6 "gimps" with an enfeebling item really makes the fight rather controlled.

* A BST burn is pretty boring.

* Alexandering it makes his hundred fists a joke even with no item.

* Alexandering a group of 5 monks hundred fisting makes it a joke.

However who wants to waste time farming 6 stupid rarab tails? That is not reasonable, I rather go get merits than go travel around fighting some stupid junk I never fight otherwise. Those at least just build up on their own. Who wants to not be allowed to come to a group because "you are not an ochain pld, mnk, bst, you don't have an emperian, you have pink, perle, teal on" and so on? I would have rathered it been a solo fight like Maat.

Sometimes I think the people complaining about newer players (for some reason leveling faster makes people jealous and look down at others for not having to work as hard for the same result or for not caring about the game as much as they do) forget that those newer players are also the ones who I hear "I lost to MNK maat 27 times" from.

[Staren]

Yup, as usual, it's easy with the 'right' group and sucks to be you if you're not a required job.

Also, those saying how easy it is probably have spammed Aby and VW for months and have the best gear and relics or better. There are MANY 95s with barely anything better than Perle/etc. for whom this mindless DPS zerg requires more than they can deliver, this fight was clearly initially tuned for those willing to melt their minds with lolprocfests in Aby.

For this fight ATM, gear >>>> skill, which is NOT what a Limit Break should be about, at all.

We took in 3 gimp monks a smn with alexander (who didnt have good gear just enough to be able to cast a base level alexander) a well geared whm and a well geared mnk. The fight was a joke. If you have been playing this game since abyssea's release and you just now are realizing that having multiple jobs leveled so you can do something I dont know how to help you. This game doesnt have the numbers it used to. You need to level and gear multiple jobs so you can low man and succeed. That is where the skill is involved. You need to know the task well enough to bring the right tools. No gear had nothing to do with it because our gimp smn waited too long to cast alexander and the empy mnk went down at the first weaponskill. The three gimp mnks did the bulk of the dmg. Try harder level more jobs, and I'm saying this as someone who has leveled sam, war, blm, and blu for procs on top of monk for tanking. You either evolve, adapt, or die. Sounds like Darwin's theory is just playing out for the people who cant do that to win this simple fight.

[Kraggy]

Keep it as it is, do you know how hard the old genkai used to be dude? It felt like a serious achievment getting that papyrus, and I remember being blown away by how deadly exorays were.
Yes, I leveled my first 75 back in '05 to '07 so I well remember the pain of getting SJ items on-level, as well as G1 and G2 .. cock-blocks like that were bad then just like they're bad now. There's PLENTY of ''challenging' stuff for those that want it, keep such crap out of core aspects like leveling.

[Juilan]

Hello!

We had two objectives in the adjustments we implemented right before the version update: relieving congestion and increasing the probability of winning/allowing this content to be completed with fewer players.

We believe that we were able to accomplish our first objective, but regarding our second objective, players seem to feel like this content is still too difficult. Since there are still players who are unable to complete this quest, we will further enhance the effects of the enfeeble items.

To be specific, we are evaluating the following adjustments:

Increase effect duration
Make it impossible to flee
Regular attacks cannot be used also during the effect duration
Multiple weaponskills will no longer be used immediately after the effects wear off


If you have any opinions on our proposed adjustments, please send us your feedback.

I as many others can barely be arsed to do it again... Make it so he stand still like a dummy with the Rabi Tail

[Puck]

I don't get who's still complaining about it being "too hard." I did this with 1 good player and 4 random players who I'm pretty sure were at least partially retarded. They just barely followed directions and we went 1/1.

This is nowhere near as hard as things like Promyvion and other mission battlefields that were capped and only a FEW party set-ups worked. For Promys it was like "2x WAR/NIN, 2x SMN or RNG, WHM... everyone else GTFO." Didn't level one of the 4-5 jobs that worked for a battlefield? Too bad. And back then leveling another job was a huge pain in the ass. Even just to 30 involved weeks of sitting around Selbina, Jeuno, and Kazham depending on the job. Yeah, back then it sucked. Anyone whining about this fight didn't play back then.

It's easy now. Very easy. This fight has SO MANY party set-ups that work, and all you need to do is spend a little extra time making the olde rarab tail to make those set-ups glide through easier. Like seriously, people are having a hard time wrangling together some pet jobs and a healer? Some MNKs/any other fast-hitting DDs and a mage that can slap enspells on them? A gang of BLMs that know how to stand in a circle? Some DDs and a SMN? A combination of any of those?

Farm a tail, grow a brain to think up a battle plan. This has nothing to do with casual versus hardcore. I took 4 of the worst players I've seen and somehow squeezed a win out of them, and I'm by no means hardcore.

[Rubicant82]

My friends and I have done this fight many times (for various ppl) and won every-time (Bar my personal first few tries in pick-up parties) without using a tail at all. I say leave it how it is.

[RichLester]

I'm going to agree with Tiberius on this one. I'm a casual gamer (on & off for 4 years) & I find whenever new content is released, loads of high-lvl pcs go off for 1-2 weeks to complete it (& come back lvled up with loads of new gear). In this case, by then, most of the high-lvl characters have already gained their limit breaks & hardly any shouts for it are now being heard when I pop into Port Jeuno & see the flood of characters not doing very much. How many shouts have you guys heard on your servers for this fight in recent weeks? (Beyond Infinity, I believe the name is). Is there enough of them to cater for any other stray casual players? The longer we leave it (as no-one is shouting for it anymore & we can go level other jobs while we wait), the further behind we become (not a nice feeling). This game should be able to cater for the casual gamer, as well as the elite. We don't mind waiting for a few months for the updates. It's just the elite are miles ahead of us casual gamers & always will be.

I think the fight should be lowered to solo-only, no subjob & WS adjusted. Now that'll be a challenge. Matt fight ver 2.0 basically. Then the elite will think "actually, we had it easy. The new solo version is tough".

[RAIST]

perhaps you aren't seeing shouts for it because no one needs to shout for it? As in, they are getting together with their LS/FL and doing it? A couple of us were going through our LS this afternoon trying to put together a list of names in fact, so we can start planning runs.

And no.....this is NOT an elitest only type of event. Go back and read some of the success stories. This has been beaten with players in mediocre gears, not even level 95, without using any manaburn/zerg/arrowburn strategies....just a standard CoP slugfest with an item to weaken the mob. I beat this 3 times with my SMN and I didn't even have Alex/Odin in my list as an option--just used the avatars I DID have to our advantage.

Hence, there actually IS a distinction to be drawn between the "way back then" versus now crowd. ZM/CoP are just a shadow of what they used to be--seriously, anyone doing these storylines have no clue what the fights are really about. People who came up through old-school ZM/CoP have experienced this style of fight so much it's practically engraved in their brains and really doesn't even need to be discussed beyond who is tanking, who is buffing, who is healing, who is stunning (if strat calls for it), and who is tossing when--someone calls time and we start chunking the items in rotation.

People are REALLY trying hard to make a mountain out of this mole hill. Energy and time would be better spent revising their strategies to learn how to win the fight.

[Dragoy]

Well, the Rarab Tail finally is indeed a lot more effective (Super Effective even?), but I would have much preferred if they made the Tarooo~ /dance4 as I suggested, instead of being inflicted with Terror.

Oh well. Either way, I got to exact some sweet revenge, beating it as RDM, WHM, MNK, SAM, and the Tarooo~ did not get one single hit on anyone. ^^

I was highly amused how I single-handedly embarrassed the poor thing.
Payback, found it!

As I did all my previous (real) level limit quests as a Red Mage, I did this one too, so I still need to get back somehow as a Samurai to give some more thoughts from the past.

Obviously it was easy beyond belief, but as I didn't like how the fight came to be in the first place, I am not complaining. As for strategy, if anyone cares at this point, Red Mage started by using the tail, Chainspell Thunder IV away while the Monk and Samurai did their things. After Convert and that MP gone, too, White Mage used Devotion to give some more MP to Chainspell away. When the effect of the tail (I believe 1 minute 30 seconds now) would wear off, the Tarooo~ used Hundred Fists, but before it had a chance to hit anyone, the White Mage was ready to serve another tail and that was it. The Samurai did not even use Meikyo Shisui since I forgot to say anything about it and she usually expects me to, so it could have been possibly over during the one minute and thirty seconds.

I wonder if we are going to get some way of repeating the fight, much like with Maat. I still have a bunch of things I would like to try, and there could be some silly rewards in it (say, black-belt related items for example... would make more sense than the way they are obtained now, somehow).


Edit:

Okay, got a proper payback as a Samurai as well, twice.

First round with a SAM, MNK, SAM, WAR, BST, WHM and second round SAM, MNK, WHM, SMN (with no 2-hour abilities and since the others did not finish the quest yet, they were unable to enter). Was indeed over with just one tail on the first run rather obviously, for the second, I think we got it down to a bit under half HP or so. A little surprised we won that time.

Either way, fun. \°~°/

[Zamms]

The limit break doesn't need fixed, i did this fight 12 times after it was released and sold wins for 1mil a pop, just because people still don't have skill cause they burned all their jobs to 95.

[Zerich]

this fight was a joke when it first came out...4 blms, 1 rdm.
only one rabbit tail was needed. it didn't touch a single one of us.