New 99 trials

[Sparthos]

So the "new" trials for the lvl99 ultimate weapons are as follows:

20 Umbral Marrow (ADL) for Relic Weapons
10 Mulcibar's Scoria (PW) for Mythic Weapons
60 Riftdross/cinder (Ig-Alima/Botulus Rex) for Empyrean Weapons

Credit to Byrth on BG and JP sources.

Just a 'lil commentary: Why 20 ADL items and not kills SE? With the abundance of Relic weapons, the high manpower requirement for ADL and the single drop per kill you're encouraging the oldschool tiering of players that you tried to escape with the previous trials.

No need to answer. I know the reason is to bottleneck the 99 relics due to the ease of reaching 95. Just talking to myself.

[Nynja]

The planned difficulty level for the corresponding Magian upgrade trials will be such that a majority of players with the appropriate level 95 equipment will likely be able to complete them.
seeing as ADL is still a crapshoot at 99, because of the blatant luck factor, the change accomplished nothing.

You guys really should have made it killshots so people can team up.

Realistically, you can only pop ADL once per day (sometimes you can get lucky on pops, and sometimes you get unlucky). Realistically, you're going to get a ~75% kill rate on ADL (if you kill the wrong clone twice in a row, your buffs will probably have wiped by then and you're done).

Since theres no teamup factor involved in the ridiculously stupid "get drop, turn in drop" system you guys want, you're pretty much looking at ~1 month per relic. Lets presume, in your 18 person alliance, which you WILL need for ADL, everyone has one relic, you're looking at a year and a half to upgrade everyones relic to 99a.


Once again, you guys have accomplished absolutely nothing.

[Vold]

What in the living hell is this crap here. I expected a DL kill spree because it makes sense, and the ADL shit for afterglow. 20 ADL is the REALISTIC trial for afterglow btw. Same with the other weapon trials. Just saying, SE.

[Taint2]

Lots of Relics will be stuck at 95, probably all Mythics (thats 33 days of zeni)

[Unctgtg]

I agree this is complete stupid bullshit. I won't take my anger out on the reps because they are just relaying the message BUT don't tell me these are just numbers put on the test server as place holders. Star Wars Galaxies and many other MMOs are gonna be getting my money very shortly if you don't change your stupidity SE.

Make it 20 DL kills so we can team up.
Or
10000 WS kills
paper
fragment
shard

Your comment that MOST of us will obtain. You are really kidding yourselves here.

[Lynchilles]

Wow. Just.... wow.

This is just about the dumbest thing I have seen in all of my time on FFXI:

"The planned difficulty level for the corresponding Magian upgrade trials will be such that a majority of players with the appropriate level 95 equipment will likely be able to complete them."

Are you effing kidding me?

[Unctgtg]

Wow. Just.... wow.

This is just about the dumbest thing I have seen in all of my time on FFXI:

"The planned difficulty level for the corresponding Magian upgrade trials will be such that a majority of players with the appropriate level 95 equipment will likely be able to complete them."

Are you effing kidding me?

They really are pushing their player base away. No FFXI means no funding for FFXIV so think about it SE

[detlef]

Still unreasonable.

[Alkimi]

20 for ADL and 10 for mythic is fine but make it kills rather than drops.

Linkshells will band together and grind out the kills if it's just killshots, if it's single drops they will just ignore it and I can safely say all my linkshell's relics will stay at 95.

In short I'd say change it to:

- 20x Arch Dynamis Lord kills
- 10x Pandemonium Warden kills
- 60x Either Botulus or Ig-Alima kills

This will also have the added effect of bringing items into the game for those 1 or 2 crazy people doing the HQ trial.

[Tamoa]

I don't know if I should bash my head against a wall, cry, laugh hysterically or just yell "I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT!!!".

[Greatguardian]

20 for ADL and 10 for mythic is fine but make it kills rather than drops.

Linkshells will band together and grind out the kills if it's just killshots, if it's single drops they will just ignore it and I can safely say all my linkshell's relics will stay at 95.

In short I'd say change it to:

- 20x Arch Dynamis Lord kills
- 10x Pandemonium Warden kills
- 60x Either Botulus or Ig-Alima kills

This will also have the added effect of bringing items into the game for those 1 or 2 crazy people doing the HQ trial.

MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE TO BE BALANCED

[Alerith]

And now we run into the problem where some level 99 holders will continue to horde the items under the idea they are going to finish the Afterglow trial, thus denying some people their shots at getting the 99 to begin with.

Assuming it's the same item, which I think it will be.

[Greatguardian]

And now we run into the problem where some level 99 holders will continue to horde the items under the idea they are going to finish the Afterglow trial, thus denying some people their shots at getting the 99 to begin with.

Assuming it's the same item, which I think it will be.

As of right now it is.

[Runespider]

20 Umbral Marrow (ADL) for Relic Weapons
10 Mulcibar's Scoria (PW) for Mythic Weapons
60 Riftdross/cinder (Ig-Alima/Botulus Rex) for Empyrean Weapons

This should be the afterglow trial lol This is in no way reasonable as something for people to work on.

I know that this will lead to either RMT or some shells making merc groups for and everyone buying them off them but it's still retarded. These are supposed to be things we work on, not pay others to do. These should of been killshot counters of 40-50, not item collection for 1! person.

If each trial was harder and harder working up to this then it's a little more acceptable but why make getting these weapons easier and then kick people in the face with such a stupid trial as this?

Someone needs to learn what balance means over at SE HQ.

[Zhronne]

20 Umbral Marrow (ADL) for Relic Weapons
10 Mulcibar's Scoria (PW) for Mythic Weapons
60 Riftdross/cinder (Ig-Alima/Botulus Rex) for Empyrean Weapons

That's retarded.
With the amount of relics/Empys around they are just enforcing selfish behaviours and a bad type of competition.
They should have looked for synergy among trials, to keep things in the cycle.
Like having NQ lv99 requiring ADL, PW, IG-Alima and Botulus KILLS, so that people would have had motivation to help others to get the necessary items for their lv99+1 Relics/Mythics/Empys.

This way it's just useless competition.
I'm so disappointed to see things going this way, and so sad to know they won't change before they hit the live servers.

And this was supposed to be reasonable and easy to obtain? lol...

No way players are gonna "work together" to update their weapons, they're gonna fight against each other! Such a crappy way of designing the last tier of updates...

[Feliciaa]

No idea why this is not the afterglow trial and the first trail should just be kills...

Guess I'll just continue to spend my money on star wars the old republic. Hopefully the player base here can continue to all speak out about these bad trials and get some changes that players can actually accomplish.

Good luck guys.

[Ophannus]

Non of you are FORCED to take it to 99 only the psycho crazy pros will. 95 emps/myth/relics are still the strongest weapons in the game.

[Brolic]

thank god pld(aegis) is shit, safe!

[Damane]

Non of you are FORCED to take it to 99 only the psycho crazy pros will. 95 emps/myth/relics are still the strongest weapons in the game.

you do know that relics actually get a boost at 99 in WS to come closer to empys lvl 90 (yes you need a lvl 99 relic to compete with an empy)

most retarded comment ever

[casual]

Non of you are FORCED to take it to 99 only the psycho crazy pros will. 95 emps/myth/relics are still the strongest weapons in the game.
All of your posts on every single forum you post on make me so god damn angry.

[Septimus]

Non of you are FORCED to take it to 99 only the psycho crazy pros will. 95 emps/myth/relics are still the strongest weapons in the game.

Let me explain.


I’d like to share the developers’ thoughts and plan for these new trials and upgrades.

When it comes to the first stage of upgrades for relic/mythic/empyrean weapons, this is considered to be the weapon’s complete form and is also the one the developers expect most players can achieve. They don’t want to dangle a carrot in front of everyone saying, “you can make these weapons even more powerful!” and then make it so only small fraction of players achieve this.

On the other hand, as some of you have already mentioned, the second stage of these weapon enhancements is left for those players who wish to go above and beyond—the “completionists” so to speak. This is why there will be no difference in weapon skill damage or other stats and only an AoE benefit as well as a special effect will be given for completing this upgrade.

See the bolded part? That is why people are people are losing it.

[Unleashhell]

They did state those are "Temporary" numbers. So we will see how that turns out. But I totally agree with the rest of you that kills should be the trials and items should be for afterglow. This means I would have to get 40 Unbral just to do Aegis and Excal and then get 120 MORE items for LS members. That's alot of god damn items... not to mention a lot of time making pop sets. Although the number for the VW NM I have to say it should be higher just because you can just spam those back to back, no farming pop sets nor having a 2 hour time limit. That is of course if it was kills.

[Creelo]

It really should be 20 Arch DL KILLS, not Umbral Marrows. :/

That would at least promote team work, and would aid the few people that actually *want* to get a Stage 2 lvl99 Relic. The Stage 1 Relic weapon holders could help out the Stage 2 person by helping kill ADL, and the person after Stage 2 wouldn't have to compete with Stage 1 Relics for Umbral Marrow. (or at least they'd only be competing with other Stage 2 Relics).

As it stands right now, I personally feel I have a MUCH better chance at completing 10 PWs or 60 Riftcinder/dross as opposed to fighting over the hordes of other relic holders for a lvl 99 Relic.

Not to mention, my relic is Gjallarhorn... ._.

[casual]

Assuming they keep the 20 number, my LS is pretty much going to be stuck in dynamis until the end of FFXI.

[Sparthos]

Assuming they keep the 20 number, my LS is pretty much going to be stuck in dynamis until the end of FFXI.


Good thing your name is casual then.

[Nynja]

I'd rather do 20 ADL kills per weapon instead of even having to obtain 1 umbral marrow (presuming its 1 drop per kill at 100%, I have yet to see a double drop on ADL or PW)

It's 100x more feasable to shout for 17 people 20 times who need ADL kills for their relics easily (I dont really have that problem to begin with, 2 of my friends have gjallars, both my alt's have magery jobs lvled, one with smn) over finding 17 people who WANT to kill ADL. Why? Because once they get their marrow....theyre not comin back lol. Atleast if you have to kill it 20 times, you're going to come back 20 times, and are forced to help others while you help yourself.

[Kitkat]

...........items per weapon.....are these people on crack? This is full on retarded considering the extent of which you have to go just to get 1 person done compared to how many total weapons are in circulation today. How is this reasonably attainable by all players give the amount of time per person it takes?

[Babygyrl]

Why have trials turned into stupid fetch quests!? Not to mention ridiculously hard fetch quests.. Bring the orginal Trials back, actually USING the weapons! none of the fetching nonsense that is so unfair.

[DrForester]

I think 10 PW items is pretty BS given you can pop ADL in a single 2 hour run and PW takes WAY more farming to be able to pop.

[Sparthos]

The trial should have been simply to clear all of the Arch bosses once with your weapon equipped.

This would mean you "beat" new Dynamis and for said task you'd be rewarded with the most powerful weapon the event has to offer you. Encourages teamwork, throws a goal to clear all the new challenges and would be 10 days minimum invested to walk away with a 99.

But that sounds too reasonable.

[Greggles]

@DrForester: I think any number of items from those particular NMs is pretty BS.

I don't understand why they don't want to make them kills. They want to make the weapons rare, and that's fine -- but it'd still take AGEs to kill 1000 ADLs / 500 PWs. The weapons would still be rare and at least you could team up and get them done together. This is a much better alternative than the items(but that's imo). I'd much rather do 1000 ADL kills over 1000 ADL items, though 1000 is still way too much even in that case.

[DrForester]

And just to clarify this is for the 99 upgrade? or the shiny weapon upgrade?

[Septimus]

The trial should have been simply to clear all of the Arch bosses once with your weapon equipped.

This would mean you "beat" new Dynamis and for said task you'd be rewarded with the most powerful weapon the event has to offer you. Encourages teamwork, throws a goal to clear all the new challenges and would be 10 days minimum invested to walk away with a 99.

But that sounds too reasonable.

But they have to go old-school with these weapons. You need the LS leader using the linkshell to upgrade his relic, stealing the LS bank, and quitting the game!

[Runespider]

Almost everything this team adds, adjust, or fiddle with is hated and stupid. It's like they want to alienate the entire playerbase and drive us all away.

Please give us back the Aby team...

[Alerith]

And just to clarify this is for the 99 upgrade? or the shiny weapon upgrade?

This is for the stage 1, level 99 weapon.

Stage 2 super special awesome glowy weapon trial seems to require the same item, just in larger quantities.

[Kimble]

Almost everything this team adds, adjust, or fiddle with is hated and stupid. It's like they want to alienate the entire playerbase and drive us all away.

Please give us back the Aby team...

You do realize the current Director of FFXI is the same battle director for abyssea right?

[amai]

japanese forum GM[Foxclon] says



こんにちは。
Hello.

レリックウェポン／ミシックウェポン／エンピリアンウェポンの強化に関する続報です。
The follow-up on strengthening Relic Weapon / Mythic Weapon / Empyrean Weapon.

先日、強化にあたってのメイジャンの試練に2段階のステップを用意するとお伝えしていますが、今週のテストサーバー更新では、その方針に基づいて各装備品につき2つの試練が追加される予定です。
Recently that are unbiased and have a two-step the test of Trial of the Magians with updated test server this week, will be added to the test of two per equipment for each based on its policies.

強化に必要なアイテムは以下の通りですが、必要数については現段階でも検証と調整を続けていますので、仮のものとしてご覧ください。
Items needed are as follows: to strengthen, the number needed to verify and adjust it continues to be at this stage, please refer to as provisional.

また、この試練の導入に伴い、花鳥風月において封獣板をNPC"Sanraku"にトレードした際に得られるモンの量を引き上げる予定です。
In addition, the introduction of this test, In addition, we will raise the volume of trade in Zeni NPC"Sanraku" obtained when the Soul Plate at Cosmic Elucidation.

※調整方針については、前回お伝えした内容から変更ありません。
※Adjustment policies have not changed from what we reported previously.


1st step　※Quantity is the value of any formal.
Weapons group Details of the trial
Relic Weapon Come collect a specified number of specific items. Meet criteria:Umbral Marrow 20
Mythic Weapon Come collect a specified number of specific items. Meet criteria:Mulcibar's Scoria 10
Empyrean Weapon group 1 Come collect a specified number of specific items. Meet criteria:Riftcinder 60
Empyrean Weapon group 2 Come collect a specified number of specific items. Meet criteria:Riftdross 60

2nd step　※Quantity is the value of any formal.
Weapons group Details of the trial
Relic Weapon Come collect a specified number of specific items. Meet criteria:Umbral Marrow 1,000
Mythic Weapon Come collect a specified number of specific items. Meet criteria:Mulcibar's Scoria 500
Empyrean Weapon group 1 Come collect a specified number of specific items. Meet criteria:Riftcinder 3,000
Empyrean Weapon group 2 Come collect a specified number of specific items. Meet criteria:Riftdross 3,000


Empyrean Weapon group 1:Verethragna Almace Farsha Redemption Rhongomiant Masamune Gandiva Daurdabla
Empyrean Weapon group 2:Twashtar Caladbolg Ukonvasara Kannagi Gambanteinn Hvergelmir Armageddon Ochain

[Dew]

Relic trial shouldn't even be arch DL. Should be Kill DL 20-30 times. Mythic trial should be kill beastmen kings like 10 times each. Emp trial should be something to do with Shinryuu, like 30 kills.

[Dekusuta]

I'll repeat what I said in other thread with a few additions.

1) community is older now we don't have the time to devote to farming in alliances of 18 for months and months
2) Asking people to get 18 players for kills to benefit 1 person is unreasonable
3) other MMOs reward long subscription with exclusive items to players who stay with the game; SE's reward is to tier players into those who can afford to stay in game 24/7 and punish their long-time tenured subscribers who have paid their dues years ago with trials like what is being proposed for mythics and relics.
4) Make tier 1 kills with weapon equipped so players work together. Actually just make both trials reasonable for the rest of the world, not by SE's masochistic standards.
5) With new consoles coming out in the next 24 months, I have no problem jumping ship and play other games instead, including Monster Hunter (JPs have mentioned this too) instead of spending $40 a month supporting this game.
6) Yoichi Wada should be fired for allowing the FFXI team to kill the goose the laid their golden eggs and financially propped up SE during their failure to transition into a HD developer

[Runespider]

6) Yoichi Wada should be fired for allowing the FFXI team to kill the goose the laid their golden eggs and financially propped up SE during their failure to transition into a HD developer

It's pretty sad hwo they turned a mostly happy playerbase during Abyssea into a hateful angry bunch we are now, putting the "old" team back in charge when they are so rigid and unmoving on their ideas was a very bad idea. They ruined FFXIV and now they put them back in charge of this game. The only problem I have with them is they just don't budge an inch on their ideas and their ideas are mostly to torture us.

[Atomic_Skull]

I'm fine with this. With the small number needed I imagine people will farm ADL and sell for around 10 million gil each. Each ADL kill would be guaranteed 10-20 million gil.

10x20=200 million gil. This is attainable for most players that already have a relic.

[Runespider]

I'm fine with this. With the small number needed I imagine people will farm ADL and sell for around 10 million gil each. Each ADL kill would be guaranteed 10-20 million gil.

We know it's attainable, and we know people will do it (hell people were shouting to buy the stuff as soon as it was leaked/dat mined). It would of just been nice if they added a trial we could take part in, like kill counts or something instead of buying the crap off mercs or rmt.

Oh well, a handful of people are going to get very rich from this. Hopefully they can find a good RMT site to sell all the gil on.

[Tamoa]

Somehow I can't see people farming Arch Dynamis Lord for the purpose of selling the upgrade item. If so, it's going to be sold for a lot more than 20mil. Otherwise I'd say it simply won't be worth it, and each person in the alliance would make more doing less work by farming currency.

[Mahoro]

I know many people still want Shadow Gear, Archon Gear and Sagasinger, so it isn't quite "18 people fighting for 1 person" as there are other drops to go around. Nevertheless, I take issue with SE's misleading statement that the trials will be accessible by the majority of the playerbase. Only large LS's do ADL, and the mob is not susceptible to PUGs.

[Runespider]

If they added VW final tier mobs that are DL and PW clones it could work I guess.. lol

[Dreamin]

On the bright side, we now know that SE isn't trolling any one job or event but they're trolling everyone.

At least it's BALANCED now. Everyone gets trolled on.

[Zerich]

i'm sure this is in retaliation to certain players getting a lot of attention for saying the game was "too-easy" with [A]

you can thank them <3

[Sparthos]

I'm fine with this. With the small number needed I imagine people will farm ADL and sell for around 10 million gil each. Each ADL kill would be guaranteed 10-20 million gil.

10x20=200 million gil. This is attainable for most players that already have a relic.

10M for a marrow is just not enough. The price is more fair at 18-20M which would mean 400M to finish a 99 which is more than getting a relic in the first place.

You think 400M for a single upgrade is reasonable?

Further, there will be supply issues make no mistake. Even at 20M/marrow very few LS will waste their time doing this with the chance of failure always present and the manpower just not being there in todays FFXI for most shells. 20M sounds like alot of motivation to run Xarc but that also means sacrificing other runs to get the buyer their drop.

tl;dr This trial is epic fail.

[Tamoa]

Seen 2 different bazaars selling Umbral Marrow, both for 30 mil. Worst thing is, I'm certain there are players out there that will buy them at that price.

[Chikamatsu]

Ok so assume every person on Bismarck that has a relic weapon wants to upgrade it to 99. Then assume that each person had 17 other people that would help them everyday. They each pop ADL at 15 minute intervals. All poped drop one item. Ok so it would take the 240 relic weapon holders a total of 3,600 minutes to all pop one and get one item. It would take them 72,000 minutes to pop them all and everyone have 20 items. 72,000 minutes is equal to 1,200 hours or 50 days. Now this is saying they each went in and no one was already there. They were able to walk right in kill ADL and leave. And that they did this every time they were able to enter on their alloted 15 minute time period. This is why it needs to be changed to kills rather than items. Because realistically its going to take an average person 8 months to finish this one trial.

[Insaniac]

It shouldn't be kills either. These trials shouldn't involve ADL or PW at all. Think about 6 months from now when people are finishing new relics and everyone else in their LS is done. Those people are largely fucked.

[Insaniac]

I'm fine with this. With the small number needed I imagine people will farm ADL and sell for around 10 million gil each. Each ADL kill would be guaranteed 10-20 million gil.

10x20=200 million gil. This is attainable for most players that already have a relic.Please stop crapping thoughts out of your head. LSs able to kill ADL will have relics to upgrade. 9 of 10 umbra that drop will go directly to the delivery crate. The ones that don't will be sold for 20-30 mil.

[Zirael]

[...] This is why it needs to be changed to kills rather than items. Because realistically its going to take an average person 8 months to finish this one trial.
I consider myself an average person, and I can tell you right now I won't ever be able to get in and kill ADL 20 times for my item. I'm not in HNMLS and doubt would join one again to slave out DKP points for 2+ years for my turn at upgrade. Of people I'm acquainted with, that are competent relic holder you could maybe make a 12-man alliance, but they are all in different LSs etc. The rest is either blisted for NM dramas or I've never spoken to. There are maybe 5-6 NA+JP LSs on my server that could consistently fill in 18-man alliance to farm ADL on daily basis, but they are the Dragon's Aery elite. They will cater only to themselves and looking at this trial conditions, no one should be surprised. One VW run I was in, a leader of such group was openly talking that they hate inviting outsiders for Botulus/Ig-alima to hand out free clears to noobs. Also, he was telling all outsiders, they would be kicked from party if not playing properly.
LS capable of killing ADL/PW will never bazaar out items. Low-manning this trial is impossible, getting pop set and making PUG group is impossible (no one will join for free and even if they do join for some reason, good luck coordinating everything perfectly for the zerg with inexperienced people.)

Empyrean trial is by far the easiest and actually achievable, people do Ig-Alima/Botulus every day and you can repeat this fight to your heart's content and people will gladly join because everyone has a shot at treasure pool from box.
If zeni plates are changed to 1000 points per plate, I can see PW trial getting achievable too before your grandchildren grow up, albeit you can't low-man/PUG this fight either because there are no rewards for participation to 17 other people.

[...] this is considered to be the weapon’s complete form and is also the one the developers expect most players can achieve. They don’t want to dangle a carrot in front of everyone saying, “you can make these weapons even more powerful!” and then make it so only small fraction of players achieve this.
Yeah, right... if I quit my job, family and friends, maybe.

[Zumi]

The Relic/Mythic 99 trails are a huge slap in the face to the remaining FFXI players with these weapons. Relics especially.

Here is the problem most people do not have a big linkshell but rather a small group of friends that still play FFXI.

You can pug people easy for stuff like VW and the Empyrean weapons since everyone is getting something out of it and people are use to joining pick up groups for VW. Also you can just buy the Empyrean items because a random person who not upgrading them will want to sell them. I seen a lot of these selling for 300k.

Nobody is going to farm ADL because the alliance all agreed they want gil from selling his drop.

But there is no way you can pug a bunch of people to kill ADL, you won't getting people willing to waste their dynamis lockout helping you, when they could be making 1.5m solo getting currency.

These trails are no way attainable by most people except the Empyrean one, just based on how the game works now which has been much smaller groups.

It would be a lot more reasonable if the Relic/Mythic trails were changed from drops to kills. That way I can shout for people with relics team up with them all get our trails done. Its a logistical nightmare in FFXI now to kill a NM 20 time for 1 person that requires almost a full alliance and 20 days of work. Then doing it all over again for whoever else in the alliance needs the drops.

This may just be the straw that broke the camels back, if this goes live I probably won't be playing this game any longer.

To SE you really need to start listening to your player base instead of flat out ignoring them.

[Dew]

I don't think people understand that items or kills, nether relic or mythic stage 1 should be Arch DL or PW. Those should stay as stage 2 only. Stage 1 in relics case should be DL. In Mythics case something aside from PW. Most people won't even be able to kill Arch DL 20 times per weapon/shield/horn. Changing it from items to kills still doesn't change the fact that most won't get this trial done if it is still Arch DL. So don't kid yourselves if you think 20 Arch DL kills is obtainable by most.

[Damane]

I don't think people understand that items or kills, nether relic or mythic stage 1 should be Arch DL or PW. Those should stay as stage 2 only. Stage 1 in relics case should be DL. In Mythics case something aside from PW. Most people won't even be able to kill Arch DL 20 times per weapon/shield/horn. Changing it from items to kills still doesn't change the fact that most won't get this trial done if it is still Arch DL. So don't kid yourselves if you think 20 Arch DL kills is obtainable by most.

The fucking trial should just be lowmanable period.
I would rather go through 10000 metatron killshots to normal mobs solo again (pre nerf trials) then molest my shellmembers with these fucking trials.

[Zumi]

I don't think people understand that items or kills, nether relic or mythic stage 1 should be Arch DL or PW. Those should stay as stage 2 only. Stage 1 in relics case should be DL. In Mythics case something aside from PW. Most people won't even be able to kill Arch DL 20 times per weapon/shield/horn. Changing it from items to kills still doesn't change the fact that most won't get this trial done if it is still Arch DL. So don't kid yourselves if you think 20 Arch DL kills is obtainable by most.

It still would be a lot easier if it was kills. I already know a lot of people with relics that would want to do this. Some of them can dual box alts so they got the smns covered. I can shout for people to fill out the rest of the slots. So many people have relics that it would be fairly easy to fill out the rest of the slots in the alliance.

Doing this isn't even a option with it being drops, because nobody would want to join or even attempt to do it.

[Damane]

It still would be a lot easier if it was kills. I already know a lot of people with relics that would want to do this. Some of them can dual box alts so they got the smns covered. I can shout for people to fill out the rest of the slots. So many people have relics that it would be fairly easy to fill out the rest of the slots in the alliance.

Doing this isn't even a option with it being drops, because nobody would want to join or even attempt to do it.

That would work for the first 2-3 months maybe and then what? new relic upgraders that need those again can do what? Look at a wall and dance happily?

Lets be realistic even ADL or PW Kills is very far from the optimum...

normal Dynamis Lord kills would be far reasonable and more lowmanfriendly.

[ShadowHeart]

tera na release around may 1st ~~ couldnt of been much better timing with the way this has been heading in a while now....

ffxi loved ya for years but the times coming soon :(

[Nordya]

tera na release around may 1st ~~ couldnt of been much better timing with the way this has been heading in a while now....

ffxi loved ya for years but the times coming soon :(

Hope to not disappoint you, but NCSoft has asked for a permanent and temporary injunction on TERA. Since Bluehole the korean developers were found guilty to have stolen codes in Korea. Seems the people that made that game are ex-employees that were working on Lineage 3 and when NCSoft shelved the project they stole artwork, codes, hardware to make this game. Some of the devs in Korea received jail time.

[Camiie]

Hope to not disappoint you, but NCSoft has asked for a permanent and temporary injunction on TERA. Since Bluehole the korean developers were found guilty to have stolen codes in Korea. Seems the people that made that game are ex-employees that were working on Lineage 3 and when NCSoft shelved the project they stole artwork, codes, hardware to make this game. Some of the devs in Korea received jail time.


Waiting for a game that never comes out would be more fun than trying to complete these trials.

[Maacha]

Since I'm actually living in Korea right now, I have access to K-TERA ^^; My FFXI accounts are going to be deactivated any time now (whenever SE decides to try taking the non-existant Crysta out of my account), so I mught just pick up TERA again. I think my character was level 40 something in TERA, but I stopped playing it a while back when I was spending more time in FFXI.

[Runespider]

Hope to not disappoint you, but NCSoft has asked for a permanent and temporary injunction on TERA. Since Bluehole the korean developers were found guilty to have stolen codes in Korea. Seems the people that made that game are ex-employees that were working on Lineage 3 and when NCSoft shelved the project they stole artwork, codes, hardware to make this game. Some of the devs in Korea received jail time.

Damn it, I was waiting for this game.

[Kristal]

Seriously, does noone even THINK about WHY SE chose to do it like this?

Headcount system would require people to equip said relics, which means some jobs can upgrade MULTIPLE relics at the same time, while others cannot upgrade any at all because they are for jobs not desired at ADL kills. And once people finished their relics, those that haven't finished it are still square out of luck.

Item drop system allows people to come as any job needed to kill these NMS, and SE can simply tweak droprate by adding multiple drops into the mix by using procs, TH, etc.

So heavens forbid you have to spend 18 months on a final relic weapon.

If you are worried about people no longer coming to kill ADL, stage 2 should be changed to 1000 kills. That would give relic 99_1 people incentive to help others get 99_1 while they get to work on 99_2, without them leeching items off the 99_1 trial people.

[Tamoa]

Shout in Jeuno right now: " <Riftdross>800k<Riftcinder>1m<Sell?><Port Jeuno>gs"

Awesome, just awesome.


As for this:



So heavens forbid you have to spend 18 months on a final relic weapon.


Are you really ok with that? I mean, really? Do you really think that is reasonable for FFXI in 2012? Do you really think that is reasonable for one trial stage?

[Kristal]

Shout in Jeuno right now: " <Riftdross>800k<Riftcinder>1m<Sell?><Port Jeuno>gs"

Awesome, just awesome.


As for this:



Are you really ok with that? I mean, really? Do you really think that is reasonable for FFXI in 2012? Do you really think that is reasonable for one trial stage?

People are running around like headless chickens without looking at the possibilities.
I'm ok with it, because it's still 1 relic a month if you pool the drops. But that probably isn't even gonna be needed.

Call me an optimist, but if each ADL drops 1 Umbral Marrow, that could means a minimum of 2 marrows each fight. The more he splits, the more marrows drop. Splitting wouldn't be the problem.. it would be the solution! Granted, you might lose out on a chance for a Sagasinger if you time out, but you still end up with several UMs.

It would also explain how SE expects even a single stage 2 weapon to be completed, as an entire server working together cannot complete that trial in any reasonable timeframe unless there's a way to increase drops to much more then 1 a fight.

[Nynja]

Call me an optimist, but if each ADL drops 1 Umbral Marrow, that could means a minimum of 2 marrows each fight. The more he splits, the more marrows drop. Splitting wouldn't be the problem.. it would be the solution! Granted, you might lose out on a chance for a Sagasinger if you time out, but you still end up with several UMs.


The clones dont drop items...killing clones prolong the fight, a fight that realistically can only be won while your melee are under the effect of Perfect Defense, so you've only got 90 seconds.

Would you skip your dynamis farming time to instead go farm and pop ADL every single day?

[Tamoa]

We have 11 relics in my ls (I think, unless I forgot somebody). The idea of killing 220 Arch Dynamis Lords makes me want to slam my head against the nearest brick wall. I love my ls, but no, just no. No way.

[FrankReynolds]

Would you skip your dynamis farming time to instead go farm and pop ADL every single day?

I'm sure she is planning something fair. like paying each person 2 mil a run for their time and effort.

[Insaniac]

The dumbest idea that is coming out of the "it's not that bad camp" is that people not working on a relic would be willing to do ADL every day for a month. Let alone a year.

[Damane]

The dumbest idea that is coming out of the "it's not that bad camp" is that people not working on a relic would be willing to do ADL every day for a month. Let alone a year.

There is a word for thows:

Hypocrites

[Zinato]

Seriously, does noone even THINK about WHY SE chose to do it like this?

I have a theory why they did this, They are pushing the game back into a competitive state where players take advantage of other players, or constantly complete for pops and drops, building anger between them. As long as players hate each other the people at SE probebly think they will fall off the player radar. Notice they didn't seem nearly as publicly hated back when 75 was big, players then start working together for a common goal 76+ they start turning on SE. Pro tip: Funding an MMOs development via the revenue of its subscriptions is a good idea, pushing it elsewhere is not. (Though that decision may have come from above the FFXI team.)

The other theory which I once thought was a joke, (may be more serious then I thought) is they make FFXI fail until XIV looks more appealing.

[Insaniac]

Every time I say "There's no way SE is stupid enough to..." the following phrase is something they inevitably turn out to be stupid enough to do. I have said "There is no way SE is stupid enough to try and get people to play one of their MMOs by making them hate their other MMO." quite a few times. So, it's probably true.

[cidbahamut]

The simpler explanation would just be gross incompetence, but I suppose SE is the exception rather than the rule.

[Kristal]

The clones dont drop items...killing clones prolong the fight, a fight that realistically can only be won while your melee are under the effect of Perfect Defense, so you've only got 90 seconds.

Would you skip your dynamis farming time to instead go farm and pop ADL every single day?

Keep in mind there are several changes in stores, some of which should make the fight less of a zerg. Reduction of aoe damage to untargetted players and pets, for instance. If the fight can be done without relying on 1 specific 2-hour ability, and there's a system in place to increase UM drops, then there's no reason to change the planned trial requirement.

As for farming and popping ADL each day.. yes, I would. Even if it takes months and I'd have to solo or PUG every last pop item so my ADL pops can be zerged once or twice a week. Those moogles can stick stage 2 where the sun doesn't shine, though. Not gonna fork over 2~20 bilion gil, even if I had it...

[Nynja]

The changes to aoe dmg are vw only afaik.

[Insaniac]

The changes to aoe dmg are vw only afaik.Yeah, Since they posted a specific list of mobs in VW and not even all VW mobs just the top tier NMs in each path I would imagine it's only the specifically listed mobs

[Nynja]

And youre going to essentially stop farming dynamis, stop upgrading any AF2+2 u want to upgrade, stop farming easy currency...to spend the next year pushing everyones relics to 99 for no benefit to yourself?

Bull...

[Nala]

blah... I don't know when you fell off the reason tree Kristal, but as of late no matter the thread i can't help but think you should apply your signature to yourself.

[saevel]

Hope to not disappoint you, but NCSoft has asked for a permanent and temporary injunction on TERA. Since Bluehole the korean developers were found guilty to have stolen codes in Korea. Seems the people that made that game are ex-employees that were working on Lineage 3 and when NCSoft shelved the project they stole artwork, codes, hardware to make this game. Some of the devs in Korea received jail time.

Umm no one over here in SK has received jail time, maybe if they were in the USA. At the worst it'll be a few million won (1 USD = 1100 KRW) fine and a suspended jail sentence.

IP aren't particularly well respected in the corner of the planet.

[saevel]

Hmm 10 PW / 20 ADL isn't so bad, but only if two conditions are applied.

#1. Make ADL / PW fight significantly more obtainable. For ADL this means either removing the "clones of death" or adjusting his damage output down and instead give him a ton of HP. He should no longer be able to one shot / nearly one shot entire alliances. Zeni should be easier to come by and PW pop sets should be made easier to build.

#2. Increase the drop rate of items to 1~3, preferably 2 minimum.

If those were in place, then it would be obtainable within a six month period of time for relic holders without sacrificing events.

Something I'm beginning to notice is people demanding things that can be done in a week or three, this isn't good for a game. Now anyone reading my posts would know that I'm probably one of if not the most anti-RNG / grind poster on this forum. This should not be a grind, but it shouldn't be a "drop everything for two or three weeks and get it done" event either. Should be something you work on over the course of ~six months, nine if your schedule is restricted.

SE needs to stop making NM's with huge offensive power and low HP. NM's should only be aoe hitting you for ~650 HP but should take 15~30 min of constant DPS to bring down. This would turn all the fights from zerg fests into endurance battles.

[Snoo]

So I just had to come here and look for myself what the new relic trial was, see if it was real, etc...

Read thru all (most?) of the posts about the trials, and I agree with some ( a lot) of what is said except a few points:

Making the items needed bazaarable at all makes little/no sense to me. No other relic trial required a item, was all kills. No mythic trial required a item, was all kills. But empy weapons are bazaarable items, so I get staying with that. What I don't get is getting these items outside of abyssea. Then again, relic weapons were kill shots outside of dyna so maybe it makes sense?

I do see and agree with the arguments that DL should be T1 and ADL should be T2. That just makes sense to me. DL can be low manned. Not easy, but do-able with a competant group of 6-12. What is difficult is that few whm did club, so they are really just there to help from the niceness of their hearts. Or a "you take any/all coins that drop" type deal. Whatever. 20 DL kills is 100% do-able, and makes sense. ADL kills...not so much. The one thing I do not see mentioned is the fact that dyna is no longer a closed event. Just think of this: you get 18 people together. 18 competant people that you trust to kill ADL. So in you go, ready for 2 hours of dyna! You are a great person and already have your ADL pop set ready to go! But wait! is that another LS up there? How many pops are they doing? Are they taking 30 min to kill each DL they have a pop for? You can only do so many ADL per day, and you are fighting with everyone else to get pop items, not to mention just popping ADL. Last I saw, ADL only had one ??? to pop. You are not only scrambling to get help, you are scrambling just to pop him. 20 times. At least 20 times.

Not like mythic is any easier. PW is not low-man-able last I saw, but it has been a while since I looked. And even if it is doable with low numbers, just making a PW pop set is no easy task. But most mythic holders might still have a PW pop set from the 95 trial. Might. If they didn't "spend" it already. 1 down 9 to go! With only one ??? again. So again, fighting with others for pop set and pop. Seems that PW has drops for about all jobs tho, so getting the help is a tad easier?

I am not saying that 3000 rift item is going to be a easy task, heck, even the 1500 plates is daunting. But frankly, VW can be spammed all day and night. And can be purchased in bazaar. I would not ever pay 150,000,000 gil for a level 95 empy weapon (assuming "you" bazaared bought it all), but it is doable.

I just do not get what they are thinking over there at SE. If they were looking for a way to push away their player base so they could justify closing the game, I think they are getting closer to that goal. First with abyssea lowering the player skill base, then the payment fiasco, now this? At least this comes as the weather turns nice so I can get out at night more. I sure will not be on FFXI if this comes about.

[Damane]

Hmm 10 PW / 20 ADL isn't so bad, but only if two conditions are applied.

#1. Make ADL / PW fight significantly more obtainable. For ADL this means either removing the "clones of death" or adjusting his damage output down and instead give him a ton of HP. He should no longer be able to one shot / nearly one shot entire alliances. Zeni should be easier to come by and PW pop sets should be made easier to build.

#2. Increase the drop rate of items to 1~3, preferably 2 minimum.

If those were in place, then it would be obtainable within a six month period of time for relic holders without sacrificing events.

Something I'm beginning to notice is people demanding things that can be done in a week or three, this isn't good for a game. Now anyone reading my posts would know that I'm probably one of if not the most anti-RNG / grind poster on this forum. This should not be a grind, but it shouldn't be a "drop everything for two or three weeks and get it done" event either. Should be something you work on over the course of ~six months, nine if your schedule is restricted.

SE needs to stop making NM's with huge offensive power and low HP. NM's should only be aoe hitting you for ~650 HP but should take 15~30 min of constant DPS to bring down. This would turn all the fights from zerg fests into endurance battles.

DIAF because honeslty the 1.5 year I put into my relic years ago was allready enough. If you want to go torture yourself again go do an Afterglow weapon. Period.

[saevel]

DIAF because honeslty the 1.5 year I put into my relic years ago was allready enough. If you want to go torture yourself again go do an Afterglow weapon. Period.

If this is your argument, then SE should just create a NPC that you trade your relic to and it returns a fully upgraded one back without requiring any quest / items / ect.

This is not what SE is doing, and could care less if you spent 1.5 years, 2 years, 5 years or 3 months obtaining a relic. Currently implemented as-is, it's not realistic due to it pitting every relic holder against every other relic holder. Relax the fights a bit and make them drop more often would speed things up.

Or as another poster said, make the Stage 1 off DL and the Stage 2 off ADL, that would be workable.

[macross]

20 ADL is doable, but only one person at a time is stupid. My LS already gotten maybe 6-8 umbral since the announcement. 60 riftdross is alot harder to get than you think too. Sure you can spam VW all day but it's a rare ass drop, and not many people have unlimited stones to spam it. If every kill would drop at least 1 dross/cinder then sure it wouldnt be bad, but that's not the case. I hope they add more drops to higher tier VWs next patch. I don't even see many shouts to kill flan/ogre no more, and assholes buy them up and try to resell for 1.5m

[Insaniac]

60 rift??? is bungloads easier because it drops from content people actually do so the supply will be there and there are probably less 95 emps around than mythics, at least on my server. So there shouldn't be a ton of competition to keep the prices that inflated.

The relic trial is the perfect storm of garbage. The demand is highest the supply is hardest to come by and the content it comes from is the most worthless. Worthless is actually putting it nicely. Using your 1 per day dynamis run to help with ADL actually prevents you from doing your own solo run and making an easy 1-3mil. With the Zeni adjustments this trial is worse than the other 2 combined. FFS there's a good chance you walk away from an ADL run with absolutely nothing.

[DrForester]

60 rift??? is bungloads easier because it drops from content people actually do so the supply will be there and there are probably less 95 emps around than mythics, at least on my server. So there shouldn't be a ton of competition to keep the prices that inflated.

The relic trial is the perfect storm of garbage. The demand is highest the supply is hardest to come by and the content it comes from is the most worthless. Worthless is actually putting it nicely. Using your 1 per day dynamis run to help with ADL actually prevents you from doing your own solo run and making an easy 1-3mil. With the Zeni adjustments this trial is worse than the other 2 combined. FFS there's a good chance you walk away from an ADL run with absolutely nothing.

Compare to Empyrean if you want, but keep in mind Mythic holders had to go through a lot more crap just to get their weapon to begin with than simply handing in a pile of ancient currency.

[Insaniac]

I don't find that relevant at all. Saying the 99 relic trial is worse than the other 2 combined doesn't mean anything but that. I'm not saying all the trials should be equal I'm just trying to give perspective. SE said they want it to be mythics < relic < emp in order of difficulty but in reality is emp < mythics <<<< relic unless they make drastic changes to the relic trial.

[Sparthos]

With current prices it'll be 150M to get an Emp to 95 followed by another 60-120M to hit 99 at current Riftdross/cinder prices. This is reasonable SE? lol

Botulus is harder than Ig-Alima so I'd imagine prices on cinder will always outweigh dross.

[Mindi]

Botulus is harder than Ig-Alima so I'd imagine prices on cinder will always outweigh dross.

whyso? both mobs can drop either riftitem

[Lukielucas]

whyso? both mobs can drop either riftitem

But i found Iggy is more inclined to drop Dross and Rex drops Cinder even though they both do have a shared drop, just one NM more inclinded to favour the 99 trial drops.... Rex is just unbelievely hard... what really annoys me is the fact that SE developers had said that they wanna reboot VW so that we don't need just empy/relic/mythic DD's to enjoy the VW content and also that they don't want us to rely on temp items..... if that the case... then why bloody make them so damn hard..... Rex is just evil, Iggy is more easier than Rex but that's only if you're doing a fanatic zerg and didn't they say they wanted to stop doing this?!?! so make up your mind SE!

As for Relic items.... still believe that 99 Relic should be a kill shot, would rather have x25~30 ADL kill than 20 of the items, for a simply fact is, you're more likely to get a Group that will get the killshot while the main person who want to do stage 2, can still get the item

[Nynja]

As for Relic items.... still believe that 99 Relic should be a kill shot, would rather have x25~30 ADL kill than 20 of the items, for a simply fact is, you're more likely to get a Group that will get the killshot while the main person who want to do stage 2, can still get the item

In 8 months when everyone pushed their relic to 99 after the initial wave...how do new relics get pushed to 99?

[Sparthos]

In 8 months when everyone pushed their relic to 99 after the initial wave...how do new relics get pushed to 99?

You hope SE plows under the old trial and allows you to farm DLs for items. lol

[Mahoro]

In 8 months when everyone pushed their relic to 99 after the initial wave...how do new relics get pushed to 99?

The people who have new Relics band together with the people who want DL/ADL drops?

[Insaniac]

BST BST THF THF THF PLD PLD PLD PLD PLD DRK DRK Plus 6 people who haven't realized in the first 8 months that Sagasinger never drops and the rings are junk? After 8 months of people spamming ADL no one is going to give enough of a flip to go on a run unless they need the kill. No one does ADL now because no one cares. Why would they care more after seeing ADL shouts spammed in jeuno for half a year?

[Nynja]

You hope SE plows under the old trial and allows you to farm DLs for items. lol

Emps are getting 60 rift items for their trial...items that drop from decently farmed mobs and probaly will drop from VW ch.4 mobs as well. why would adding 1 marrow to DL be such a bad idea?

[Mahoro]

BST BST THF THF THF PLD PLD PLD PLD PLD DRK DRK Plus 6 people who haven't realized in the first 8 months that Sagasinger never drops and the rings are junk? After 8 months of people spamming ADL no one is going to give enough of a flip to go on a run unless they need the kill. No one does ADL now because no one cares. Why would they care more after seeing ADL shouts spammed in jeuno for half a year?

EDIT: re people switching to other jobs

I'm almost certain a big reason Sagasinger doesn't drop is people don't do ADL that much. They're too busy spamming VW hundreds of times for something that never drops. Again, all conjecture.

I wasn't really contemplating shouts in Jeuno though. I was contemplating a LS setting where ADL is done in conjunction with other events, including Arch bosses in other zones. I'll be the first to admit DL/ADL isn't PUG content, which is one of the problems inherent in SE's thinking here.

[Insaniac]

We're talking about kill trials I thought? Unless they come up with a moderately creative way to get credit for a kill without having to have your weapon equipped people would be stuck on the jobs they made the relic for.

[Mahoro]

You are correct, got my hypotheticals mixed up. Not sure about the proportion of each job vs. relics being made, but the majority would probably be PLD's. So a killshot trial would be difficult to implement.

[Ravenmore]

Sagasinger is really not that great of a weapon. Only 2 jobs that are on it even have sword as their main weapon so its a afk show off weapon for the other jobs that can wear it. Now if a glowly weapon is enough to make you happy great, but its clearly not enough for the rest of the server.

[Mahoro]

As a PLD-preferred piece, it's probably no more useful than the other glowy weapons for which people spam Voidwatch hundreds of times. Sort of the equivalent to Ephemeron for BLU and Coruscanti for THF/DNC, even though those items only benefit 1-2 jobs. Biggest difference being, outside of large LS's, people have had difficulty doing ADL runs whereas VW is extremely PUG-friendly.

[Runespider]

In 8 months when everyone pushed their relic to 99 after the initial wave...how do new relics get pushed to 99?

FFXI has always always been like this, if you don't do new missions shortly after they add them it's hard to get them done, if you don't do your VW clears soon after addition it's hard to get them done..same for everything. Everything in FFXI is a mad rush for the first 6 months after then extreme difficulty finding people to do them with after.

It's a joke they keep using the word balance and then throw this kind of content out, it really is. When they are forcing the vast majority of their players to completely opt out of the stuff they are making you would think they would realise they are doing it wrong, but no they just keep doing it.. I know their big plan is to make these trials horrific at the start for the hard hard core and then slowly reign them back to reality but to keep the handful happy they are upsetting everyone else. Not a good idea really in my opinion.

[Unctgtg]

I love everyone's logic. Trying to compare this game to 4 years ago. Not going to happen. SE really is driving players away. If they really do require us to get 20 ADLs items, they will hear it even more. They might have gotten the idea, of the number of topics, not just in the NA forums but the rest, we do not want this, and it is frankly stupid for them to even bring this into the game. 20 ADL kills for stage 2 would be sufficient.

[Nynja]

You copy pasted the exact same post in 3 threads...? why would you do that?

[Ravenmore]

As a PLD-preferred piece, it's probably no more useful than the other glowy weapons for which people spam Voidwatch hundreds of times. Sort of the equivalent to Ephemeron for BLU and Coruscanti for THF/DNC, even though those items only benefit 1-2 jobs. Biggest difference being, outside of large LS's, people have had difficulty doing ADL runs whereas VW is extremely PUG-friendly.

Those weapons are impovements(well if they ever fix one) and those two jobs DW. Not to mention other valueable drops.

[Mahoro]

Those weapons are impovements(well if they ever fix one) and those two jobs DW. Not to mention other valueable drops.

I guess the ultimate test would be if you had PLD and this thing dropped in the treasure pool during an LS event (ADL is unfortunately not PUG-friendly), would you cast lots or refrain entirely, saying its not an improvement to your job? I agree it's not as "useful" as Coruscanti though.

[MarkovChain]

seeing as ADL is still a crapshoot at 99, because of the blatant luck factor, the change accomplished nothing.

You guys really should have made it killshots so people can team up.

Realistically, you can only pop ADL once per day (sometimes you can get lucky on pops, and sometimes you get unlucky). Realistically, you're going to get a ~75% kill rate on ADL (if you kill the wrong clone twice in a row, your buffs will probably have wiped by then and you're done).

Since theres no teamup factor involved in the ridiculously stupid "get drop, turn in drop" system you guys want, you're pretty much looking at ~1 month per relic. Lets presume, in your 18 person alliance, which you WILL need for ADL, everyone has one relic, you're looking at a year and a half to upgrade everyones relic to 99a.


Once again, you guys have accomplished absolutely nothing.

More QQ about the game being hard ? Seriously though, 20 ADl is fine to me. The 1/kill thing might not be an issue. It's pretty easy to duo or trio one pop set per run, and all you have to do is find a group of 3-4 players willing to team up say once a week to kill muktiple ADLs in a run like you would for a KCNM. In all seriousness it's not too hard of an NM. I expect a decent 6 man group to kill it.


Somehow I can't see people farming Arch Dynamis Lord for the purpose of selling the upgrade item. If so, it's going to be sold for a lot more than 20mil. Otherwise I'd say it simply won't be worth it, and each person in the alliance would make more doing less work by farming currency.

Same can be said for metal plates however they can be found in bazars and most drops from VWNM are trash anyway. Guess what ? Right now riftdross/cinder are hard to find in bazars, but right when they allow the trials to be completed, you'll see plenty of them - even though the other drops stay the same as they are now.

[Tamoa]

Same can be said for metal plates however they can be found in bazars and most drops from VWNM are trash anyway. Guess what ? Right now riftdross/cinder are hard to find in bazars, but right when they allow the trials to be completed, you'll see plenty of them - even though the other drops stay the same as they are now.

Are you comparing doing voidwatch for heavy metal to sell, to doing ADL for Umbral Marrow to sell? Really?

Owait, for a second I forgot who I'm quoting here.

[Nynja]

More QQ about the game being hard ? Seriously though, 20 ADl is fine to me. The 1/kill thing might not be an issue. It's pretty easy to duo or trio one pop set per run, and all you have to do is find a group of 3-4 players willing to team up say once a week to kill muktiple ADLs in a run like you would for a KCNM. In all seriousness it's not too hard of an NM. I expect a decent 6 man group to kill it.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Alerith]

More QQ about the game being hard ? Seriously though, 20 ADl is fine to me. The 1/kill thing might not be an issue. It's pretty easy to duo or trio one pop set per run, and all you have to do is find a group of 3-4 players willing to team up say once a week to kill muktiple ADLs in a run like you would for a KCNM. In all seriousness it's not too hard of an NM. I expect a decent 6 man group to kill it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

[Alerith]

Also, wouldn't Sagasinger be good for PLD when wanting to jack a buff from the enemy? Use your normal sword until say, Orthrus puts up his stoneskin and blaze spikes. Switch to Sagasinger, peel off one of them, then go back to your regular sword.

Sure, TP is an "issue", but honestly, that's a pretty potent stoneskin...

Hell, steal his blaze spikes then simply cancel it off yourself.

It's a tactical weapon more than a fulltime weapon.

[Brolic]

Also, wouldn't Sagasinger be good for PLD when wanting to jack a buff from the enemy? Use your normal sword until say, Orthrus puts up his stoneskin and blaze spikes. Switch to Sagasinger, peel off one of them, then go back to your regular sword.

Sure, TP is an "issue", but honestly, that's a pretty potent stoneskin...

Hell, steal his blaze spikes then simply cancel it off yourself.

It's a tactical weapon more than a fulltime weapon.

why would you have pld in "_______"

[Sparthos]

Has anyone even noted the proc rate of the Sagasinger?

Tactical weapons require getting a proc in 1-3 swings. I doubt its that high.

[Tamoa]

Does anyone even know someone with a Sagasinger? FFXIAH has no owners registered, and I haven't heard of or seen a single person with it.

[Nynja]

Sure, TP is an "issue", but honestly, that's a pretty potent stoneskin...

[22:16:42]Orthrus readies Magma Hoplon.
[22:16:42]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:42]Orthrus takes 156 points of damage.
[22:16:42]Additional effect: poison.
[22:16:42]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:42]Orthrus takes 152 points of damage.
[22:16:42]Nynja hits Orthrus for 68 points of damage.
[22:16:43]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:43]Orthrus takes 150 points of damage.
[22:16:44]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:44]Orthrus takes 142 points of damage.
[22:16:44]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:44]Orthrus takes 0 points of damage.
[22:16:44]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:44]Orthrus takes 112 points of damage.
[22:16:45]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:45]Orthrus takes 131 points of damage.
[22:16:45]Orthrus's spikes deal 26 points of damage to Nynja.
[22:16:45]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:45]Orthrus takes 0 points of damage.
[22:16:46]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:46]Orthrus takes 155 points of damage.
[22:16:46]Orthrus's spikes deal 27 points of damage to Nynja.
[22:16:46]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:46]Orthrus takes 0 points of damage.
[22:16:47]Orthrus's spikes deal 26 points of damage to Nynja.
[22:16:47]Orthrus starts casting Fire III.
[22:16:47]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:47]Orthrus takes 0 points of damage.
[22:16:48]Orthrus hits Nynja for 406 points of damage.
[22:16:48]Orthrus's spikes deal 27 points of damage to Nynja.
[22:16:48]Additional effect: Nynja takes 37 additional points of damage.
[22:16:48]Vermy starts casting Cure VI on Nynja.
[22:16:48]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:48]Orthrus takes 0 points of damage.
[22:16:49]Nynja hits Orthrus for 28 points of damage.
[22:16:49]Kehhiko starts casting Cure VI on Nynja.
[22:16:49]Orthrus's spikes deal 27 points of damage to Nynja.
[22:16:50]Nynja scores a critical hit!
[22:16:50]Orthrus takes 32 points of damage.
[22:16:50]Orthrus's spikes deal 27 points of damage to Nynja.

Theres some overflow in attack rounds, hence why it goes 100-100-0-100-100-100-0-0-0-0

but the basis is there: the stoneskin potency is...impotent.

[macross]

We've killed like 20 adl, never seen sagasinger drop yet. Gotten the NQ sword like 3-4x though.

[MarkovChain]

Are you comparing doing voidwatch for heavy metal to sell, to doing ADL for Umbral Marrow to sell? Really?

Owait, for a second I forgot who I'm quoting here.

You and nynja sound pretty noobish. Stop QQing about those trials because you can't solo it with your mule like for abyssea. Right when when the metal plates trials were out, the same people complained over and over because they couldn't gather 1500 plates solo doing voidwatch. The only point of doing voidwatch is to sell plates and due to the retarded droprate it's better to farm gil and buy from bazars. If you can find 18 gimps for 3-4 metal plates that take 1 hour to planify why wouldn't you be able to do so with arch DL. With 20 items only required to complete the trial, you will not have much trouble selling them for 10-15 M. That's the idea...

The idea of 20 items and not 20 kills is excellent because it allows gil circulation in the economy but I'm not surprised it didn't come to your mind either. In the end It's probably faster to gather 200M than farm 20 ADl drops. Personnally It takes me one entire run for a popset and one run for a single kill (most likely) so at best 40 days for 20 drops. In 40 days I can farm the equivalent 3000 metal plates which is worth ~450M. 450M/20=22.5M. So technically at 22.5 Millions Gil per Umbral merrow you will find buyers especially considering most of those that are considering upgrading a relic will not have spent that money on metal plates. That's the kind of math SE is doing right now.

[Nynja]

Please let me know when you kill ADL multiple times in 2 hours with a party of 6, I'll be waiting...

[Kimble]

Please post a video of it too.

[MarkovChain]

Dudes I just said it would take me 1 run for a popset and 1 run for a kill, learn2read and suck less. If you go with an alliance then it's cake just need sherzo and earthen armor. But due to the setup required it's counterproductive for the relic farmer while being profitable for the alliance farming ADL if they plan to sell.

[FrankReynolds]

3,000 metal plates in 40 days? WTF?

[Nynja]

It's pretty easy to duo or trio one pop set per run, and all you have to do is find a group of 3-4 players willing to team up say once a week to kill muktiple ADLs in a run like you would for a KCNM. In all seriousness it's not too hard of an NM. I expect a decent 6 man group to kill it.

Ok, so go duo/trio your pop set today, consisting of Dynamis Lord, Duke Haures, Marquis Caim, Baron Avnas, Count Haagenti...and then find another 3-4 people, and go kill ADL with 6 tomorrow.


We'll be waiting

[MarkovChain]

3,000 metal plates in 40 days? WTF?

Dunno that's about what it took me and mdk. It's slightly more than the time required to farm 2x relics worth of currency.

[MarkovChain]

Ok, so go duo/trio your pop set today, consisting of Dynamis Lord, Duke Haures, Marquis Caim, Baron Avnas, Count Haagenti...and then find another 3-4 people, and go kill ADL with 6 tomorrow.
We'll be waiting

I did 16M today farming dumbamis with mdk, that'll do it ?

[Nynja]

I did 16M today farming dumbamis with mdk, that'll do it ?

ah yes, pchan's famous exaggerated numbers. (16m at an old 12k/currency price that no longer exists = 1333 currency...1333 currency in a 2 hour span (yeah you dont even waste time farming TE's) = 11 currency per minute)
Then go farm your popset tomorrow and kill ADL wednesday...IF you can do what you're preaching is "so easy".

once again, we will be waiting.

[Alerith]

why would you have pld in "_______"

Cause it's the best job ever!

And Pchan's stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

[Resin]

Making ADL drop something thats actually decent would help. Shit, make him have a chance at dropping the 10,000 peices. thats enough reason to kill with some regularity.
Making PW drop something equivalant to 5k~10k alexandrite would give people a reason to do it with some regularity.
Everyone is already doing Voidwatch and killing the mobs that drop the items for empys, why make the other 2 weapons stuck doing shit that has almost zero gain for the people helping?

[MarkovChain]

and also wipe to dragua consistently, just to place further emphasis on how good you are at this game

obligatory:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/7298/34fh8r8.gif

So much butthurt right there.


ah yes, pchan's famous exaggerated numbers. (16m at an old 12k/currency price that no longer exists = 1333 currency...1333 currency in a 2 hour span (yeah you dont even waste time farming TE's) = 11 currency per minute)
Then go farm your popset tomorrow and kill ADL wednesday...IF you can do what you're preaching is "so easy".
once again, we will be waiting.

Nobody will be surprised to learn that you don't even have a level 95 empy yet ?

[Shadowsong]

More QQ about the game being hard ? Seriously though, 20 ADl is fine to me. The 1/kill thing might not be an issue. It's pretty easy to duo or trio one pop set per run, and all you have to do is find a group of 3-4 players willing to team up say once a week to kill muktiple ADLs in a run like you would for a KCNM. In all seriousness it's not too hard of an NM. I expect a decent 6 man group to kill it.

Wait, WHAT!? aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
This coming from YOU of all people!?

Post a picture of you 3 manning the pop sets (won't happen), then post a video of you 6 manning ADL (also won't happen) and you will be crowed king of the forums. Until then, you will remain in your dark corner.
Also show me the 3-4 people who will give up their Dynamis entries for 40 days (20 farming pops, 20 ADLs, and LOL at thinking you won't have any trouble doing that)

Edit- Nearly missed this gem

16m in one dyna
^^^ Why do you do these things to yourself?

[Shadowsong]

I did 16M today farming dumbamis with mdk, that'll do it ?

Sorry for double post but didn't feel like editting again-
This quote does not answer the proposed question at all. What does gil farming have to do with ADL kills? So No, "That'll NOT do it"

[Tamoa]

Sorry for double post but didn't feel like editting again-
This quote does not answer the proposed question at all. What does gil farming have to do with ADL kills? So No, "That'll NOT do it"

Duh, isn't it obvious - gil farming so you can buy Umbral Marrow that noone is selling because noone cba to kill ADL, of course!

[MarkovChain]

Just because you can't be assed to farm relics doesn't mean anyone will (apparently you are only good at abyssea weapon according to your FFXIAH thing). If the majority of Voidwatch players can be assed to spam their stones in order to sell the few plates for 150k I'm sure they'll be willing to team up and sell an umbral marrow for 10 millions. I mean some people can be assed to do 6 KCNMs which before the warp thing required much more than a dynamis run with much less reward. It's just about how much people are willing to pay for it. People are willing to pay 150k per plate on my server which is 225M for the level 95 stage of empy why wouldn't they do the same for relic...

[Insaniac]

People don't do VW to sell plates you frothing moron. They do it for the gear and sell the plates because they drop and they don't want them.

[Tamoa]

Just because you can't be assed to farm relics doesn't mean anyone will (apparently you are only good at abyssea weapon according to your FFXIAH thing). If the majority of Voidwatch players can be assed to spam their stones in order to sell the few plates for 150k I'm sure they'll be willing to team up and sell an umbral marrow for 10 millions. I mean some people can be assed to do 6 KCNMs which before the warp thing required much more than a dynamis run with much less reward. It's just about how much people are willing to pay for it. People are willing to pay 150k per plate on my server which is 225M for the level 95 stage of empy why wouldn't they do the same for relic...

Against my own better judgment I'm going to respond to this.

1. I never got a relic because back @ 75 cap none of them (for the jobs I had leveled back then) were tempting enough for me to justify the amount of effort/gil that it would take. Where were your relic @ 75 cap? Owait, you didn't have one either.

2. At the moment I'd rather finish my current goals than work on a relic.

3. What Insaniac said - I don't know a single soul that does voidwatch for the sole purpose of farming heavy metal plates to sell. People are either keeping them for their own empyrean weapon(s), or they are after other drops and if they happen to get plates, they sell them.

4. Comparing the relative ease of obtaining heavy metal plates by doing voidwatch, to farming ADL, is completely retarded.

[Alerith]

Just because you can't be assed to farm relics doesn't mean anyone will (apparently you are only good at abyssea weapon according to your FFXIAH thing). If the majority of Voidwatch players can be assed to spam their stones in order to sell the few plates for 150k I'm sure they'll be willing to team up and sell an umbral marrow for 10 millions. I mean some people can be assed to do 6 KCNMs which before the warp thing required much more than a dynamis run with much less reward. It's just about how much people are willing to pay for it. People are willing to pay 150k per plate on my server which is 225M for the level 95 stage of empy why wouldn't they do the same for relic...

Oh...my....gawd....

This is better than Comedy Central.

[Nynja]

Oh pchans posting...wheres his triod adl popset?

[MarkovChain]

have fun standing by your bullshit as per usual when here you are after the coming update without a ninety-nine stage relic, just like everyone else with their relic(s), all because the trial in-itself is utmost fucking ridiculous if they don't change it dramatically, yet people such as yourself can't understand a simple concept

let's assume there's at least eighteen relics in some of the best shells these days (which isn't highly unlikely by any means); granted, usually 2~3 are on the same character, but for this instance, let's assume they're spread across an alliance-worth of people so that everyone has one (not that it really matters, but for the sake of simplicity since we all acknowledge your i.q level being below average room temperature),

18(people) x 20(kills) =

fill in the blank you dumb fuck, because i don't know about you, but myself,

http://niejestdobrze.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/d5.jpg

Your problem is that you can't do anything without your LS. I bet you do VW in a LS too. Arch DL was decently hard at 90 that's about it. We are now level 99 guys. ADL is basically a joke. PW is like a HQ version of buble berny.

[MarkovChain]

I wonder how people managed to do Salvage or Einherjar back then, since apprently lotting against others is such a problem. As far as effort is concerned getting an Odin popset was much more work than what it is to get an arch DL popset....

[Apelila]

That's an excellent straw man argument and I'm totally gonna let you finish, but let me just say:
When Odin put out, one person only needed one item once.

Not 20 abjurations.

I've got 5$ that he compares getting these pop items to getting avatarites next.

[Alerith]

I wonder how people managed to do Salvage or Einherjar back then, since apprently lotting against others is such a problem. As far as effort is concerned getting an Odin popset was much more work than what it is to get an arch DL popset....

See, there are these things called linkshells. And these linkshells sometimes gather for certain events, like Salvage or Einherjar. And these linkshells use a system of points to determine who gets what.

1) You're not going to find a shell that specifically devotes it's entire existence to ADL.
2) If you were lotting against 17 people in your Salvage or Einherjar shells, you were doing it wrong.
3) You pop Odin?

[Brolic]

I wonder how people managed to do Salvage or Einherjar back then, since apprently lotting against others is such a problem. As far as effort is concerned getting an Odin popset was much more work than what it is to get an arch DL popset....

salvage and odin only had 1 drop so it makes all the sense in the world

[Qeepel]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no need to make inflammatory comments towards other members that have opposing or different points of views or opinions. The same goes for those who feel the need to defend themselves against such comments, which is needless and futile. Such behavior is not constructive and only clutters the thread. If you have a problem with a post, please place the player on your ignore list and report the post if necessary.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

[Nynja]

Lul...pchan realized he stuck his foot in his mouth with his "1 pt can kill multiple ADLs in one run" and reported posts...stay classy.

Can i report pchans obvious troll posts of how the ADL popset nms can be duoed/trioed without providing any proof of such a deed being possible?

[Karbuncle]

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no need to make inflammatory comments towards other members that have opposing or different points of views or opinions. The same goes for those who feel the need to defend themselves against such comments, which is needless and futile. Such behavior is not constructive and only clutters the thread. If you have a problem with a post, please place the player on your ignore list and report the post if necessary.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

Your name made me giggle.

I'm going to get banned now ;;

[MarkovChain]

See, there are these things called linkshells. And these linkshells sometimes gather for certain events, like Salvage or Einherjar. And these linkshells use a system of points to determine who gets what.

1) You're not going to find a shell that specifically devotes it's entire existence to ADL.
2) If you were lotting against 17 people in your Salvage or Einherjar shells, you were doing it wrong.
3) You pop Odin?

Point systems don't work. Odin is best to be done free lot. Salvage was best done in shouts.


ADL popset nms can be duoed/trioed without providing any proof
Don't need "proof" to show that a level 90 NM can be killed by 2 level 99 players.....For your info I've also farmed an arch DL popset like 2 weeks after neo dynamis was realeased so .. at 90.

[Nynja]

More of your posts yet I dont see a duoed ADL popset...

[wish12oz]

Where were your relics @ 75 cap? Owait, you didn't have one either.

Does anything else really need to be said?
Pchan, you're always late to the party for everything, quit acting like you did everything first. You can farm tons of gil to buy heavy metal plates and relics now? Good for you, so can anyone with half a brain.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is, and go trio an ADL pop set and then kill it with 6 and post the video on youtube or something, or is this going to be like everything else you said you can do, and couldn't. Brewing Dragua still?


More of your posts yet I dont see a duoed ADL popset...

[Meyi]

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no need to make inflammatory comments towards other members that have opposing or different points of views or opinions. The same goes for those who feel the need to defend themselves against such comments, which is needless and futile. Such behavior is not constructive and only clutters the thread. If you have a problem with a post, please place the player on your ignore list and report the post if necessary.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

You should be even more concerned about people making posts with inaccurate information. Someone innocent may come into this topic, see what the person in question is saying, and assume that the trial is easier than it is...

Since the other level 99 trial thread was destroyed, I will say it here again: I'm sorry to everyone who is working on the level 99 relics. :( This trial will be difficult and I wish you the best of luck in completing. I hope Square Enix comes to its senses and realizes that we, as the playerbase, are not amused by these trials, and hopefully by the time the "unknown/nonrepresenting test server" information is "possibly changed" it will be for the better.

I don't understand why anything would need a test server if the idea behind it wasn't solid. It'd make more sense if SE decided on something, thought it was great but wanted feedback, posted it on the test server, got our input, then used that input to change the final product. As it stands the test server seems more like a slap in the face that we can see an update in advance. :/

[Insaniac]

6 people going to salvage and rotating zones so that everyone gets a shot at the gear they need is just like taking 17 people to dynamis 5 times for the benefit of one person guys.

[Unctgtg]

So SE nuked the other thread because they know that we are right................ Just goes to show you they don't listen to us.

[Nala]

Hence why in the largest one of them i had suggested we all create our own threads, to not only bombard them with likes but overwhelm them with threads, seems it was a good thing i actually executed my own advice i originally was just going to see if it caught on, didn't think they would nuke away the major thread.

[Kitkat]

Can you please ban the developers and community reps? they keep derailing threads with unrelated posts, posting inflammatory announcements that provoke thousands of angry responses, and generally cause a nuisance.

Hey....maybe this is why that topic got removed from the forums along with all of Camate's responses? They banned Camate! Well that kinda sucks since he was one of the more active responders >.>

(btw to anyone who can't already guess I'm being a smartass)

[Apelila]

Point systems don't work. Odin is best to be done free lot. Salvage was best done in shouts.

Don't need "proof" to show that a level 90 NM can be killed by 2 level 99 players.....For your info I've also farmed an arch DL popset like 2 weeks after neo dynamis was realeased so .. at 90.

I'm having trouble following your logic with why point systems do not work since you haven't given any support for this stance. Since you skipped my post and focused on points, lets point out why you would be wrong in this situation.

Earlier others and myself pointed out that the relic trials do not directly compare to previous systems. You need an item more than once. Hence with a point system, if say 18 relic holders formed a static they would all have to attend every run perfectly to have the same chance at the 20 items required to upgrade to 99. Assuming they where able to farm and kill exactly one ADL every day, that would be 320 days of nonstop dynamis fun and excitement before all their pretty gold weapons attained almost ultimate potential. The lot order would be naturally established over 20 runs, with some unlucky people making up the bottom 10.

But wait! The BLM cannot come on a day where they are #1 in line! Suddenly, his spot is taken by the crafty WHM who takes her place in line. The next day the same routine starts over, but now the BLM is a spot behind in the queue, like a manic game of musical chairs where the chairs don't get removed for 46 weeks. The order continues to shuffle, and at 37 weeks the first 99 is finished after a friend sold their 'unwated' marrow for his 'unwanted' gil. Tired and exhausted, of course the proud owner of a level 99 Brovura would like nothing more than to help his fellow man for an additional 10 weeks, investing the amount of time normally required for school, a part time job, community service, spending time with family, or other mundane social activities. After doing the same event for 259 days, for a total of 518 hours, or 24.5 days or time spent of course they'll want nothing more than to help others with the same goal. After all the last ADL is finally fell, the group will have spent 640 hours or 26.6 days together. As a group they'll have a combined time logged of roughly 11520 hours or 480 days.

In short no, a point system might not be the best for ADL. As I hope to have illustrated, no system would be. It's a ridiculous trial probably cooked up by the same minds that gave us the original Pandemonium Warden and Absolute Virtue. Minds that need to be reminded what 'fun' is, or that a trial can be hard without requiring more work than an actual job.

Something you, ~chan, also do not seem to understand. Because for all your boisterous self praise, you have yet to furnish us with the dazzling proof of your accomplishments. For every argument you supplant with another, you have yet to support any.
You continue to deride anyone with a valid point while providing neither facts for you arguments nor proof of the accomplishments you claim that would support your misdirection's.

I typed all that, when 5 letters can do so much more:

POIDH.

[Nala]

Dude just add him to your ignore list, he's been posting here with absolute gibberish since day 1.

[Kimble]

Waiting for this thread to be deleted since it seems now we are just going to hide any evidence that they playerbase was not happy about these trials.

[Ravenmore]

Waiting for this thread to be deleted since it seems now we are just going to hide any evidence that they playerbase was not happy about these trials.

Thats what they do with the other one, why wouldn't it work for this one too.

[Zinato]

That really is a slap in the face. I unhappily put up with various grinds in the game, to enjoy things I do enjoy. I've defended SE even at the risk of being attacked myself. (check the VW thread) I don't mind if they ignore feedback, if they choose not to implement feedback or even explain why it won't work. But, to have anyone for any reason delete a thread of player feedback. (It should not matter if its positive or negative so long as it has constructive feedback) I've put up with a lot and usually with a smile, but for the first time ever I feel they have turned their backs to us, they have silenced us.

Also I found this on FFXIAH forums:

[They deleted my "Thread deleted?" thread and banned me.

Quote:
You have been banned for the following reason:
Your posted message is unrelated to objectives of the thread. Your login to the forum is temporarily suspended. Please try and log in at a later time. Also, please see the forum guideline again to use the forums properly and comfortably.

Date the ban will be lifted: 02-01-2012, 04:00 AM

How can my message be unrelated to objectives of the thread when the only post in the thread by me was the one opening the thread itself... so stupid. -Carbuncle.Seankp]

(If you see this please don't be mad I wanted others to see this.) Figured I'd share since he is banned. And at this point I may be next :(

Edit: I just noticed my post count has been reverted as if I never posted in the other thread, fixed format to separate AH post and mine, TY Seankp.

Edit2: The thread has been restored. I do wish however, they had said something, anything, when it was brought down, instead of leaving us to our imaginations. I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions, its just hard to take a thread deletion optimistically. (especially since cleaning a thread isn't a common practice from what i've seen)

[Insaniac]

It looks like they are trying to keep all the rage in 1 thread. It seems silly they deleted the thread with 3 comrep posts in it but w/e lol. Probably because the other threads title was a bit ambiguous. Just continue the conversation here and don't get side tracked talking about thread deletion.

[Zinato]

Well, Ill repost my thoughts on the 99 trial then (Yay saving in word document) Sorry to anyone who read it in the original setting.

A few thoughts which I hope make it to the DEVs round table.

Mythics - Thanks to the increase in Zeni per plate this trial is perfectly reasonable. For that matter given what it takes to gain mythic, and that PW is very PuGable this should be NP.

Empyrean - 60 is just fine, Empyrean deserves no sympathy given the mass difference in the effort needed to create to a level 90 version. The fact that they are on par with or superior to both counterparts in the super weapon class justifies this. Yes, 1500 plates is 150m and about what relic costs but, empyrean doesn't cost a thing to get to 90 so it’s just leveling the playing field. Additionally, I doubt any rational person would say making mythic is comparable to making empyrean. However, some do claim relic is just as easy being a player can now solo farm the currency in roughly 90 days. To this argument, understand many Empyrean can be made in PuGs within a week. When people can say things like "you just need an empy" in reference to a super weapon there is an issue, imagine telling someone at 75 "you just need a relic".

Last is relic, which right now is the only class of super weapon that is in discussion.
A few thoughts, first kills trials are not reasonable for two reasons. First, once the initial rush to complete the trial is over players earning relic after or missing the rush will be in the same boat of gathering 18 people all of whom don't need the fight. Reason two this is a bad idea is that many of the common relic are shields and melee weapons, and Arch Dynamis Lord is not something that just any combination of job can do.

Next, as far as multiple drop points go, when an item is dropped from multiple mobs (even at a reduced rate, even then do you want Merrow to be any less than 100%?) players will always seek to kill the easiest of the bunch. This brings up a second issue where in Dynamis is a timed event, ANY cause for congestion is bad. Unlike Abyssea, Dynamis has a full 24 un-adjustable re-entry. Things will be no different than trying to get empyrean NMs before the x3 adjustment. Also, I don't think a simple ??? addition will suffice as in Abyssea there are ~18 empyrean NMs and that had issues imagine what happens if every relic holder wants one NM.

Another suggestion I've seen is gain 1m exp, and while that is an impressive number this too is unrealistic. I imagine that upon implementation players will quickly find level syncs willing to be bought/help. I believe Dynamis allows the double exp of last year meaning a possible 400exp/kill plus exp bands if those work. Dynamis would become a party zone for relic holders, which among congestion, will like with kill counts cause some players to have to help without benefit. (won’t find many healers doing relic trials) Aside from that, imagine what 1m exp would do to the Magian completion message one kill and 400 messages appear. Would likely involve altering the Magian System.

Another suggestion offers 10k kills of any kind. This is as simple as one of the greatest weapons of all time being brought to maximum potential by killing EP rabbits. A bit anticlimactic I would think. (Also kill count with a shield? I assume the wielder has to get finishing blow otherwise, it just Abyssea party time)

There is no point in going over why the current method is flawed since there is 100+ posts on it just be aware that a x1 drop from ADL won't work. This is the DEVs preferred method since players who jumped the gun and took Test Server data as final started collecting them.

However, I would like to expand on this idea. What if upon defeat ADL dropped a chest? (I know what you’re thinking OH GOD VW, be at ease I have an idea) This chest has 100% chance of Merrow + whatever else they want to put in, maybe some logs or something. All other drops will go to pool just as normal.
The benefits of this are as follows:
#1 Players who may already have the drops will still be able to use them as needed.
#2 Players will not be required to play the job of the weapon they wish to upgrade.
#3 In the event that later down the line players cannot find a team to finish off ADL they still have the option to buy (unlike kill count)
#4 While it is true this leads to 18x the drop rate this also means two important things first if a player sacrifices a drop to another player by trading it they will still have to obtain one themselves later, a player not upgrading relic can still choose to sell the drop as a means of compensation for helping the run. (This will also lower merc shell prices to one reasonable of players)

As previously stated this will increase the overall count of the item and as compensation a x2 or x3 (Definately not x18) to required turn ins. This is my least favorite of my ideas.

The bigger complaint is the difficulty of ADL at 99 which borders on Kirin at 75. This leads to my preferred idea.
Merrow would be added to Fait Lux as an x1 drop. The reasoning goes a little something like this.
(SPOILERS AHEAD)

First of all, Fait Lux has a maximum of 6 man entry, and much like Dynamis a once a day limit (Unless you stock in advance) This means a smaller group needed to obtain these items while still being a moderately challenging fight. However, unlike Dynamis in the event of congestion there is no time limit on the wait area for Fait Lux. So while congestion will still be an issue it’s not wasting a once a day opportunity.

Merrows in circulation would again be able to be used, (to not screw those who have them) while still maintaining an item drop meaning the relic jobs within the BCNM would not be required.

Now I know the DEVs want to keep the mythology behind Dynamis in relic trials but, as we should know the Crystal War era we experience in WoTG is the true crystal war not the weaker universe we know in our world. Many of the relic holders existed in this time just as they do in ours but, as shown in one of the CS they were soundly beaten at the Shadow Lords hands. Up until now we have been farming the remnants of the relic trapped within Dynamis, so why not go to the original and I do mean original (not our altered world) to obtain its maximum form. Rather than the current ADL which has no story or real reason to exist within Dynamis other then "additional content"

Now, for the drawbacks.
First, the Earth time needed for upgrades is unaltered (I would assume the number needed for completion is unaltered) with exception to the fact a team of 18 relic holders can go in 3 groups cutting the time between them in 1/3. (For those big relic lss)

This still doesn't answer the problem of finding help, however, it won't be wasting a 1-3m Dynamis run and spending a campaign op is a much lower opportunity cost, I imagine finding help would be easier.

Final drawback is the need to occupy and maintain control over the Northlands. I suggest a few things, first allow any allied faction to access Fait Lux so long as Altana controls the Northlands rather than just the nation occupying it. (There is no real reason to have players fighting themselves for control, when it’s the Shadowlord who is the enemy anyway) As far as gaining the Northlands in the first place a team of ~18 can easily steal the north, if every relic holder did this it would be ours very quickly and stay that way for a long time.

Obviously, its not 100% perfect but, one or both ideas I would think are preferred over the current option.
Sorry the post is so long, and if someone had this idea already sorry, I missed it. (just think of me restating an idea if that's the case)

*Also, Insaniac in case you missed it, I apologized in the other thread for arguing the reasoning behind the placement of Merrow, as in the end it doesn't make much difference.

[macross]

Empy 60 drops is not fine. It is by far the hardest trial. The drop is rare, even though you can spam it. In 60 kills of the droppers I've gotten 2 riftdross. I've shouted for days, barely able to buy any at all, as people are already done farming these 2 NM and just do not kill them much anymore. It will only be feasible if they add them to new vw tiers and make them drop like silvermirror/riftsands. Unless you bought all the dross/cinder before the final trial was announced you are likely screwed.

PW easy. ADL easy. Just sucks when you got alot of relics to upgrade. But 5 items NP. Stupid dross/cinder should be 10 or 15, not friggin 60.

Relics are around 80m now, 95 empys cost you like 200m at current prices. Relics are just as easy to make as empys, take 18 people and all go solo dynamis for a week and pool up the money and there is your relic. Same as 18 peeps all working togetehr to make an empy.

[Kimble]

/facepalm.

At least your content is worthwhile and current?

[macross]

What's not current about dynamis? There's relic +2 upgrades you can farm and upgrade. ADL is still a semi challenge. Heck how many people have even killed ADL vs flan/ogre?

[Kimble]

Its been brought up already. Doing Dynamis for someones relic is an opportunity cost. It requires you to skip doing your own runs to work on your own relics/farm for currency for money. If you are doing ADL, you won't be getting nearly as many +2 upgrades as you woudl on your own.

You can also do VWNMs a lot more then 2 hours a day, once a day. And the other people there are getting something out of it for their time.

[Ravenmore]

What's not current about dynamis? There's relic +2 upgrades you can farm and upgrade. ADL is still a semi challenge. Heck how many people have even killed ADL vs flan/ogre?

Thats the content you would be giving up to do ADL. And there is nothing challenging about a fight that you can get boned out of a drop cause you pick the wrong clone with no why to tell. So while you can buy the items no one in their right mind will farm ADL to sell its drops. With the emp items people are still doing fights that drop them and if they want to get back any of the gil they wasted on them they will sell.

Also the days of giving one person all the coins are long over, no one is that much of a blind sheep much less people.

[Insaniac]

There's no cinder/dross in circulation because the few people with 95s are snatching them up so they can finish the second the trial goes live. They probably never even make it to bazaar because someone in the alliance is buying them as they drop. It sucks that emps are stuck with another gil trial but if you can go a few weeks with your 95 while the 10 "NEED IT NOW" people finish the prices will probably drop back down to 500kish since there's so few 95s out there.

[Draylo]

I think the empy trials are pretty ridiculous. Once people stop doing a certain NM, you have lower and lower chances as the days go by, to finish your weapon in a reasonable time/gil cost. The whole system is pretty stupid, would it have killed them to include a point system so you could exchange the points for empy upgrade items, similar to how certain magian weapons use bastion items?

[Kimble]

At least then, it doesnt really cost the other 17 people to help you do it. Just stones really.

[Insaniac]

I think the empy trials are pretty ridiculous. Once people stop doing a certain NM, you have lower and lower chances as the days go by, to finish your weapon in a reason time/gil cost. The whole system is pretty stupid, would it have killed them to include a point system so you could exchange the points for empy upgrade items, similar to how certain magian weapons use bastion items?
I agree. The terrible gear drop rates aren't gonna be enough to keep people doing HMP droppers forever. As new events come out to draw peoples attention away the supply will get lower and lower. They will eventually have to add HMPs at least to other content. Well you would think they would have to but we all know how that worked out with alexandrite.

[Zhronne]

So Gimpchan trolled in the other thread and they used it as an excuse to delete it?
It's the first time in 15 years of internet that I see, on an important and official forum, a thread as big as that one deleted instead of moderated/locked.
Tells a lot I guess, or maybe it doesn't.

Still, it doesn't change the fact we're getting bent to 90° once again. I'd wish for a lot of people to stop paying their monthly fees at least for a month or two, as a "global strike" to give Devs a signal of how unhappy we are with these lasts announcements and many others that happened over the last months, but sadly we're all too addicted to this game for that to happen.

[macross]

It's not the 95 holders buying them up, it's the resellers trying to capitalize on 95 holders. I know one guy who bought 30 of them when they were 100k, now trying to sell em for 1.5m each. Sadly I'm sure some rich guy will buy em all just to have the 99 done, but that guy won't be me. I really wonder how many 95s will even get made, being that qilin isn't spammed no more. Heck it still took me 1 month to get 1500 back when there were alwasy 3 full allys farming qilin all the time.

[Camiie]

For the Empy trials, they should have added a new, higher level set of mobs to Abyssea and required 100 items for the 95 stage and 125 for 99.

I know they decided to make the last 2 Empy trials extra difficult to BALANCE!! the relative ease at which one could reach the 90 stage, but that idea was ridiculous from the start. Real balance would have been to keep the difficulty consistently progressive and make the trials realistically obtainable by those who were able to complete the previous ones. (You know, like what they said the 99 Relic trial was supposed to be.)

If Empys hadn't turned out as difficult to complete as they would have liked, they should have accepted that, learned from their "mistake," and applied that knowledge to future content. Instead, they decided to effectively punish Empy owners for THEIR "mistake." While I'm sure that sits well with players who looked down on Empys for being too easy to obtain, I'm not seeing what it does for people who actually own them and enjoyed the process as it was. Aren't those the people that should be taken into account ahead of everyone else?

If anything needs adjustment it's these trials, but I don't know that there's going to be a poopstorm on this as there was on Relics. It's a shame, as I'm sure that will be required to see changes considered at all.

[Tamoa]

I have to admit I wish empyrean weapon owners had raised more of a shitstorm when the 1500 plates requirement was introduced on the test server, much as relic owners (and non-relic owners too, even) have raised a shitstorm now. Then maybe, just maybe, the number would have been lowered before making it to the live servers. While some of us did indeed voice our discontent, it was generally assumed it was just a placeholder number. I guess the majority of us thought it highly unlikely that the empyrean weapon trials would go 50 - 50 - 75 - 1500 - but boy were we wrong.

The trial wouldn't be so horrible if obtaining the plates had been made a tad bit easier. Of course, in my personal opinion SE could have halved the number of plates required and it still would have been quite the task. But as it is, the amount needed, paired with the complete and utter randomness of drop rate, makes it a task that a lot of lvl 90 weapon owners won't bother with because it's just so discouraging in itself.

Now I know some people have finished the trial already by buying the vast majority of plates, and that's all well and good. I am currently working on 95 Ukon myself, but it's slow going, I have to admit that. I simply do not wish to spend all my online time on making gil to buy plates. I don't want to log on FFXI and feel like I'm going to work. I did do dynamis daily for a few months, but all of a sudden everybody and their brother were spamming dynamis. I got tired of the competition for mobs and the sniping of mobs, and on top of that the currency market nearly crashed and Ru'lude was (and still is) flooded with currency bazaars.

Unfortunately, the price on heavy metal has been rising lately. It used to be fairly easy to find them for 100k per, but not so much anymore. Now they seem to range from 130k to 150k each, and that difference does indeed add up quite fast. So all in all, people will easily spend 100mil+ (and most likely a lot more than that) to upgrade their weapon from 90 to 95, which in itself is ridiculous for the marginal improvement the upgrade offers.

And yes, empyrean weapons are easy to make up until level 90. I don't think a single empyrean weapon owner would deny that. But it's hardly our fault that SE made them that easy to obtain, is it? Do we deserve to get punished by having to grind voidwatch and spend the rest of our online time trying to make money to buy the damn plates, just because the previous trials were easy? I don't think so.

As for the next trial stage, I don't even want to think about it yet. I'm just praying that somehow, somewhere down the line (and fairly soon please SE), steps will be taken to ensure that the items will be easier to obtain. By adding more nms that can drop them, adding pouches, voidwatch points to be exchanged for dross/cinder (and even plates) - anything!



I think this is my longest post ever here on the OF, sorry. :(

[Vold]

I wish I could jump on the empy trial is bad bandwagon but the fact that I don't own a lv95 because the 1500 metal plate requirement is lol makes it hard for me to care. All I'll say is that Abyssea business seems infinitely easier now to even the most casual of players when compared to lv95 and 99 and... 210 million gil or whatever. Because gil grows on trees!

The bad thing about these trials is that the leap from a lv90 emp to 99 for hundreds of millions of gil is not even remotely the same as the leap from not owning one to owning one. This is where the 95 and 99 trials fail. But it's up to the individual. Do you or do you not want a lv95 and lv99 version of your weapon? And go from there. I'm shocked that we couldn't buy abyssea drops to build them. That's what I figured the trade off with them was - you did leg work for Empyreans if you wanted them. No bazaar buys allowed. Boy that idea sure was dealt with in record time. It almost feels like SE was acknowledging the VW drop system is crap.

[Alerith]

I find the fact that the larger thread with the comrep responses was deleted to be...insulting. The thread wasn't just locked or moderated, it was completely nuked.

Post counts were adjusted and all existence of it seems to have been wiped.

"Delete that thread! We can't let anyone know the players were unhappy."

This is the most disrespectful moderation and Dev team ever.

[Zarchery]

They lowered the requirements in response to player protests. That couldn't possibly mean that they were listening to you guys? No no no. That's not possible. They didn't give you everything you wanted, so clearly they aren't. Best put up a dozen more threads and a couple hundred more posts with titles like "OMG SE YOU GUYS ARE STUPID RETARDS I HATE YOU", then complain about how rude SE is, without a touch of irony.

[Finuve]

They lowered the requirements in response to player protests. That couldn't possibly mean that they were listening to you guys? No no no. That's not possible. They didn't give you everything you wanted, so clearly they aren't. Best put up a dozen more threads and a couple hundred more posts with titles like "OMG SE YOU GUYS ARE STUPID RETARDS I HATE YOU", then complain about how rude SE is, without a touch of irony.

have you read anything, the complaint isnt the number, its the goddamn item
so in that sense, no they didn't listen at all


just like they still havent changed the ridiculous fucking heavy metal plate requirement

[Camiie]

For all those who want to see these trials changed/improved don't let anyone bait you into starting a flamewar so this thread gets closed as well. Just ignore the white knights and trolls and say what needs to be said as politely as possible. Don't give the mods any excuse to close any more threads. If they still get deleted after that, then we'll know for sure what's really going on here.

[wish12oz]

If they still get deleted after that, then we'll know for sure what's really going on here.

It's pretty obvious they're just closing the threads and deleting them to try and make it look like people are happy with the bullshit trials. People already put in enough work for this garbage, why the hell does SE feel the need to continue to punish them.

[Camiie]

It's pretty obvious they're just closing the threads and deleting them to try and make it look like people are happy with the bullshit trials. People already put in enough work for this garbage, why the hell does SE feel the need to continue to punish them.

That theory certainly isn't off the table for me. In fact, it's actually my assumption as well. I just think we need to refrain from giving them any reasons to remove threads other than their own desire to see them removed. We need to be "peaceful demonstrators" so to speak.

[Alerith]

WE ARE THE 99%

[Greatguardian]

Tbh more like we are the 100%.

Pchan is one player out of 300,000 with one friend who, combined, make up a total 0.0006% of the population.

Good news, though (maybe?). Mocchi posted on the JP forums, and my extremely uneducated translation (aka I read the numbers and translated like 2 lines) suggests that they may have adjusted to 5 ADL items, 3 PW items, and kept the 60 Emp items. Maybe.

[Nynja]

I think the empy trials are pretty ridiculous. Once people stop doing a certain NM, you have lower and lower chances as the days go by, to finish your weapon in a reasonable time/gil cost. The whole system is pretty stupid, would it have killed them to include a point system so you could exchange the points for empy upgrade items, similar to how certain magian weapons use bastion items?

Because cinder/dross obviously wont drop from VW4 mobs based on the obvious notion that plates dont drop from VW3 mobs...OWAIT THEY DO



It's not the 95 holders buying them up, it's the resellers trying to capitalize on 95 holders. I know one guy who bought 30 of them when they were 100k, now trying to sell em for 1.5m each.

And whos fault is that? The items that would have been used for emp upgrades were known since Dec 14 (iirc), the fact you let them sit in bazaar's thinking 100k is too expensive is your own dumb move.

I mean, really, you were one of the first 95 emps upgraded iirc (or was that Eijin)...you upgraded yours on Nov 10 (OMG DETECTIVE WORK!!!!) (http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/90728-Final-Form-Magian-Weapons?p=4884503&viewfull=1#post4884503), and the patch was on Sep 20, you obtained 1500 HMP's in less than two months, and NOW youre making a stink about 60 riftdross/cinders? R O F L

[MarkovChain]

Earlier others and myself pointed out that the relic trials do not directly compare to previous systems. You need an item more than once. Hence with a point system, if say 18 relic holders formed a static they would all have to attend every run perfectly to have the same chance at the 20 items required to upgrade to 99. Assuming they where able to farm and kill exactly one ADL every day, that would be 320 days of nonstop dynamis fun and excitement before all their pretty gold weapons attained almost ultimate potential. The lot order would be naturally established over 20 runs, with some unlucky people making up the bottom 10.

But wait! The BLM cannot come on a day where they are #1 in line! Suddenly, his spot is taken by the crafty WHM who takes her place in line. The next day the same routine starts over, but now the BLM is a spot behind in the queue, like a manic game of musical chairs where the chairs don't get removed for 46 weeks. The order continues to shuffle, and at 37 weeks the first 99 is finished after a friend sold their 'unwated' marrow for his 'unwanted' gil. Tired and exhausted, of course the proud owner of a level 99 Brovura would like nothing more than to help his fellow man for an additional 10 weeks, investing the amount of time normally required for school, a part time job, community service, spending time with family, or other mundane social activities. After doing the same event for 259 days, for a total of 518 hours, or 24.5 days or time spent of course they'll want nothing more than to help others with the same goal. After all the last ADL is finally fell, the group will have spent 640 hours or 26.6 days together. As a group they'll have a combined time logged of roughly 11520 hours or 480 days.

In short no, a point system might not be the best for ADL. As I hope to have illustrated, no system would be

Nope you just explained us why point systems don't work. Anger and frustration as well multiply the difficulty of the item by the number of person in the LS. The ideal system is a "your pop your drop" system where everyone farms his own popset then the whole linkshell (or group) pops all of them in their own run. If your "LS" is efficient you can do day 1= popset farming day2= kills x 6 (for instance). Assuming, like you did, that you can't kill more than one ADL in a run is pretty funny.



Empy 60 drops is not fine. It is by far the hardest trial. The drop is rare, even though you can spam it. In 60 kills of the droppers I've gotten 2 riftdross. I've shouted for days, barely able to buy any at all, as people are already done farming these 2 NM and just do not kill them much anymore.

Just as I explained a few post ago, at which point to which I was answered that I was wrong and voidwatch gear didn't suck. Yes it sucks and that's one reason you don't find riftcinder in bazars. The second reason is that the riftcinder market is 10 persons per server pretty much.. Metal plate NMs are still spammed though cos yeah nubs like trying their luck I guess.

[FrankReynolds]

Nope you just explained us why point systems don't work. Anger and frustration as well multiply the difficulty of the item by the number of person in the LS. The ideal system is a "your pop your drop" system where everyone farms his own popset then the whole linkshell (or group) pops all of them in their own run. If your "LS" is efficient you can do day 1= popset farming day2= kills x 6 (for instance). Assuming, like you did, that you can't kill more than one ADL in a run is pretty funny.

Somehow I feel like you are talking about a different NM from everyone else.

[Nynja]

pchan's posting again without proof of a 6 manned ADL or a duoed ADL popset? Why oh why am I just not surprised

[Tamoa]

Nope you just explained us why point systems don't work. Anger and frustration as well multiply the difficulty of the item by the number of person in the LS. The ideal system is a "your pop your drop" system where everyone farms his own popset then the whole linkshell (or group) pops all of them in their own run. If your "LS" is efficient you can do day 1= popset farming day2= kills x 6 (for instance). Assuming, like you did, that you can't kill more than one ADL in a run is pretty funny.

And even if that worked, how does that help the fact that every damn relic owner in your group/ls needs 5 items? You're still stuck in Dynamis-Xarcabard for God knows how long to finish them all.

[Nynja]

You'd think someone who can make "16 mil every day in dynamis" (your words not mine) would be swimming in gil (16 mil per day is 480 mil a month...), could take one day off and actually provide some tangible proof of "hey, see, these NM's are duoable like I said, you really do all suck"...but....no...that wouldnt be pchan.

[MarkovChain]

Because I can count ? If you manage to keep the frequency of 6 pops on day 1 => 6 kills on day 2, everyone would get 1 drop per 2 days so 40 days for 6 level 99 relics. Of course if you purposely choose to enslave yourself to a point system you are going nowhere. Seeing how easy having a level 95 relic is (compared to empy for instance) I'm sure finding those people is not too hard. If not then there will propably be a few going to farm it and sell it at bazar. I think that's how SE is intending the system to work. In one of my previous posts I've explained that at 22M / umbral marrow it's possible to find buyers if those are ready to go through the same pain as the level 95 empy trials. I'm sure plenty of people are ready to sell drops for 10-20M especially if they alternate popset farming / poping ALD. For instance with a linkshell of 12 (6 main / 6 mules) you could farm 6 popsets on day one and 6 ADl in day 2, therefore doing ~10M in two days per person at least and up to 20M if they sell for that price.

PS : I can tell you that If I find a 10M umbral marrow in a bazar I buy it without even thinking twice.

[Tamoa]

Uh, yeaok, whatever. I'm with FrankReynolds here, it certainly does sound like you're talking about a different nm than everybody else.

Once the trial hits the live servers, please do provide us all with proof of how you got your 99 Spharai trial done by doing what you have described in this thread. Simply put - POIDH. If you can't, then gtfo.

[Nynja]

He cant without brew...I'm pretty sure ADL is significantly harder than Dragua.

[Alerith]

He cant without brew...I'm pretty sure ADL is significantly harder than Dragua.

Now, I might not be in on some joke or something, but....he/she didn't ACTUALLY wipe to Dragua...right?

I mean, the level of pathetic that would be....

[Nala]

ya know i honestly didn't realize that MarkovChain was p-chan, thats how much ive been ignoring him, i kept wondering who yall meant by p-chan >.<

[Apelila]

Nope you just explained us why point systems don't work. Anger and frustration as well multiply the difficulty of the item by the number of person in the LS. The ideal system is a "your pop your drop" system where everyone farms his own popset then the whole linkshell (or group) pops all of them in their own run. If your "LS" is efficient you can do day 1= popset farming day2= kills x 6 (for instance). Assuming, like you did, that you can't kill more than one ADL in a run is pretty funny.

I believe I was explaining why a point system for -this- encounter would not work, not point systems as a whole. Reference the earlier point of - Point systems are typically for single item drops. Also, my numbers are off, especially with the new announcement. But @ 20 they're more than accurate, doubly so considering the rate of building an ADL popset. I might add you have yet to provide any sort of proof that more than one ADL popset can be built in a single run, given the unknown percentage drop rate from the first/second tier NM's necessary, the free spawn nature of the regular DL pop NMs, or a strategy for killing multiple ADL (which is pretty funny).

The other point of my post was to illustrate how far a group of friends would have to be willing to go to help one another. How if one person got sick or had real life issues, they would be at a disadvantage versus someone with no friends and no real life obligations. Your "Ideal system" would still only benefit 6 people out of an alliance of 18, under the conditions you have proposed.

So ~chan, those pictures? Where are they sweetie?

[Nynja]

I'm not doubting that an ADL popset can be built in 1 run, the pop items for the t2 NM's drop pretty often, and tomes are 100%. But he said they were "duoable with ease" and "ADL can be killed by a pt of 6 multiple times"...which is why were loling at him.

[MarkovChain]

I might add you have yet to provide any sort of proof that more than one ADL popset can be built in a single run, given the unknown percentage drop rate from the first/second tier NM's necessary, the free spawn nature of the regular DL pop NM

At this point it is clear that you didn't read that you didn't farm any ADL popset nor read what I said. On day one everyone in a group of 6 would farm a popset on their own, and 1 run is more than enough for a duo to get all the pops(beside nq dl but this one can be killed in 1 minute right before arch DL). You don't have to farm the popset as a linkshell. It would actually be pretty dumb as you will end up bringing a lot of leecher that never farm anything. Also the drop rate are 100% on the NMs.


Your "Ideal system" would still only benefit 6 people out of an alliance of 18, under the conditions you have proposed.

Again you didn't read so stop arguing with me. 6 real & skilled people will kill ADL without trouble. Just don't bring some of the posters here.

[Kimble]

Could you please post a video of you beating ADL with 6 people?

[Alerith]

Could you please post a video of you beating ADL with 6 people?

So far, from the time she first posted, it's been what, three days? So as far as we know, it's taking her three days to farm ADL pops.

[Nynja]

On day one everyone in a group of 6 would farm a popset on their own, and 1 run is more than enough for a duo to get all the pops(beside nq dl but this one can be killed in 1 minute right before arch DL). You don't have to farm the popset as a linkshell. It would actually be pretty dumb as you will end up bringing a lot of leecher that never farm anything. Also the drop rate are 100% on the NMs.



Again you didn't read so stop arguing with me. 6 real & skilled people will kill ADL without trouble. Just don't bring some of the posters here.

Prove it...if what you're saying is true, you'd be making 120m in 2 runs of dynamis...and these arent fabricated numbers like your "I make 16m every dynamis". If what you're saying is true, and you really can duo all the pop NM's and kill 6 ADL with 6 people in 1 run , you'll walk off with 6 umbral marrows, which would EASILY sell for 20 mil each.

So once again, prove it.

[wish12oz]

I'll server jump 30 mil per marrow to your server and buy them off you for that price pchan, that's more gil then you claim to make farming dynamis in the 2 days it will take you to go duo up the pop items and kill those 6 ADLs with 6 people. The catch is I want a video of you killing ADL with 6. Now you have no reason to not go do it, so get to it.

[Sparthos]

Pchan done gone inhaled chocobo dung again.

6man ADL? lol

[hiko]

Just because you can't be assed to farm relics doesn't mean anyone will (apparently you are only good at abyssea weapon according to your FFXIAH thing). If the majority of Voidwatch players can be assed to spam their stones in order to sell the few plates for 150k I'm sure they'll be willing to team up and sell an umbral marrow for 10 millions. I mean some people can be assed to do 6 KCNMs which before the warp thing required much more than a dynamis run with much less reward. It's just about how much people are willing to pay for it. People are willing to pay 150k per plate on my server which is 225M for the level 95 stage of empy why wouldn't they do the same for relic...


I did 16M today farming dumbamis with mdk, that'll do it ?


More QQ about the game being hard ? Seriously though, 20 ADl is fine to me. The 1/kill thing might not be an issue. It's pretty easy to duo or trio one pop set per run, and all you have to do is find a group of 3-4 players willing to team up say once a week to kill muktiple ADLs in a run like you would for a KCNM. In all seriousness it's not too hard of an NM. I expect a decent 6 man group to kill it.



Same can be said for metal plates however they can be found in bazars and most drops from VWNM are trash anyway. Guess what ? Right now riftdross/cinder are hard to find in bazars, but right when they allow the trials to be completed, you'll see plenty of them - even though the other drops stay the same as they are now.
using your number:
1 dyna = 16M OR 1 ADL pop that sell for 10M

asuming you, mdk and your 4mules farm 6 ADL set then sell/kill em for 10M each you get 60M/week

now if you spent your week "farming dyna 16M per day" you get 112M

why people should bother farming ADL pop set to sell em if they get half what they get just farming currencies?






Point systems don't work. Odin is best to be done free lot. Salvage was best done in shouts.(1)


Don't need "proof" to show that a level 90 NM can be killed by 2 level 99 players.....For your info I've also farmed an arch DL popset like 2 weeks after neo dynamis was realeased so .. at 90.

disagree on (1) because imo :
loging in=> spending 2min gathering with friend/job chging etc=>doing salvage=> see friend get item=> do some other stuff on ffxi
is BY FAR more fun than
logging in=> shooting for half an hour to get people=> do salvage=>get gear=> shooting for idk what other event i wana do

2) i'd like to see 2lvl99 duo PW or AV (oh, they are lvl75 NMs)

[MarkovChain]

using your number:
1 dyna = 16M OR 1 ADL pop that sell for 10M

asuming you, mdk and your 4mules farm 6 ADL set then sell/kill em for 10M each you get 60M/week

now if you spent your week "farming dyna 16M per day" you get 112M

why people should bother farming ADL pop set to sell em if they get half what they get just farming currencies?



They shouldn't. I've already said that I would probably buy the drop at 22.5 Millions bro. However logic is not the same for everyone. Apparently some people do voidwatch, and it says it all. There is always better stuff to farm than VW. Whatever SE does you will always find a couple of people to farm it even if it's not the whole server. In the case of ADL you will find a couple of WELL organized player able to farm ADL on a dayly basis or weekly basis. In the end there should be enough players willing to do it to give the supply to the little amount of players willing to finish the trial. Economics 101.





Secondly I didn't say AV can be duoed dude, I said the POP NMs are an easy duo. They are likely 90 ish as they were released at that time. Or maybe are you comparing AV or PW to one of those joke NMs ? seriously.

[Damane]

using your number:
1 dyna = 16M OR 1 ADL pop that sell for 10M

asuming you, mdk and your 4mules farm 6 ADL set then sell/kill em for 10M each you get 60M/week

now if you spent your week "farming dyna 16M per day" you get 112M

why people should bother farming ADL pop set to sell em if they get half what they get just farming currencies?







disagree on (1) because imo :
loging in=> spending 2min gathering with friend/job chging etc=>doing salvage=> see friend get item=> do some other stuff on ffxi
is BY FAR more fun than
logging in=> shooting for half an hour to get people=> do salvage=>get gear=> shooting for idk what other event i wana do

2) i'd like to see 2lvl99 duo PW or AV (oh, they are lvl75 NMs)

its pchan dont feed the troll... he lives in another dimension

[Alerith]

They shouldn't. I've already said that I would probably buy the drop at 22.5 Millions bro. However logic is not the same for everyone. Apparently some people do voidwatch, and it says it all. There is always better stuff to farm than VW. Whatever SE does you will always find a couple of people to farm it even if it's not the whole server. In the case of ADL you will find a couple of WELL organized player able to farm ADL on a dayly basis or weekly basis. In the end there should be enough players willing to do it to give the supply to the little amount of players willing to finish the trial. Economics 101.





Secondly I didn't say AV can be duoed dude, I said the POP NMs are an easy duo. They are likely 90 ish as they were released at that time. Or maybe are you comparing AV or PW to one of those joke NMs ? seriously.

Everything you post is just comedy gold.

By the way, where's that video of you doing ADL with just six people?

[Taint2]

Confirmed ADL can drop 2 Marrows.

[Nynja]

doesnt mean much when 1 marrow is 100%, and the other is a 2% drop (I mean after all the documented ADL kills, this is the first, and only, sighting of a double drop). So presuming you have 4 relics to upgrade, you can get 20 marrows in 19 kills. You'll be cutting down the manhours from 720 to 684. Doesnt change much, MAYBE saves one dynamis run. I'd need to see more proof on the drop rate of a second or third marrow.

[Taint2]

doesnt mean much when 1 marrow is 100%, and the other is a 2% drop (I mean after all the documented ADL kills, this is the first, and only, sighting of a double drop). So presuming you have 4 relics to upgrade, you can get 20 marrows in 19 kills. You'll be cutting down the manhours from 720 to 684. Doesnt change much, MAYBE saves one dynamis run. I'd need to see more proof on the drop rate of a second or third marrow.


The fact that it can happen is good news by itself. There aren't enough posted ADL drop list since they added Marrow to determine how often one can expect 2 to drop.

[Nynja]

There are some people on valefor who claimed to have already farmed a substantial amount of marrows in anticipation of the trials being added. Surely at some point they would have posted / made reference to a double drop.

[MarkovChain]

Ah so there are legendary people in nynja's realm that "claim" to have killed ADL. This afternoon the ??? was spammed by JPs, they poped like 10 DL and as much ADL. Stop trying to prove us that ADL is not farmable. It's mostly a joke it dies about as fast as nq DL and can be repeated as many times as the # of SMN that you bring.

[wish12oz]

seriously.

Why you ignoring me? I got the gil for you right here, 30 mil a marrow, go farm me those 6 in 1 run with 6 people so I can buy them and you can get rich and prove to everyone you're right.

[Nynja]

Ah so there are legendary people in nynja's realm that "claim" to have killed ADL. This afternoon the ??? was spammed by JPs, they poped like 10 DL and as much ADL. Stop trying to prove us that ADL is not farmable. It's mostly a joke it dies about as fast as nq DL and can be repeated as many times as the # of SMN that you bring.

Who said ADL isnt killable? I never said that. I said ADL requires the support of 17 others for 2 hours a day.

stop posting untill you have proof of ADL pop items being duoed (including DL) and ADL being killed by 6 people without 2hr's (aka, no perfect defense, because you cant do back to back ADL's if you're burning 2hr's).


I'm pretty sure majority of the clamoring about this trial would be gone if ADL didnt require 2hr's to kill. The ridiculously stupid argument of "bring extra smn's for more PD" is exactly that, ridiculously stupid.

[MarkovChain]

2H is cheating, you heard here.

[Nynja]

no, it means requiring 2hr's to kill a mob in an event that only lasts 2hr's means you can only kill the mob once per run, maybe twice if all your cors get lucky.

[Zinato]

2hr isnt cheating but, if 2hr is needed all assumptions should by based on once every two hours. I don't think SE would intentionally make something on the basis people have mules to get reasonable drops. (IE more then one per 18 man per day) Or the off chance you bring over 18 players but that only compounds the issue.

[MarkovChain]

You can always use your imagination. Almost all chars have one or several mules to go with it (not ALT). It's quit possible do double/triple your SMN amount this way, this job is only good for PD. What'll be your next excuse to move your ass into dynamis ?

[Kimble]

So wait, you are saying, everyone should level SMN on one of their mules, then get that mule to dyna-xarc (having to get them rank 6, and also all clears before that and then also do all of toau on these mules to be able to get Alexander) so they can then log them in for 2hr at ADL?

And how come you still REFUSE to post a video of you duoing all the nms on the way to ADL(including DL) and then 6 manning ADL?

You made that claim, now you refuse to back it up. Typical.

[Nynja]

cant really use any meme generators at work, but I think it would go a little like this

Build 99 relic?

*Pchan picture*

Own 10 smn mules

[wish12oz]

I think it's funny pchan is telling people to do so much work with the leveling and getting alexander on a mule, then he is willing to do prove he's right about 6 man ADL with no 2 hours.

[Nynja]

Id like to point out that getting alexander, while diffiulty is trivial now, still requires completing the toau missions (which are full of JP midnight blocks) and all the dumb fetch quests, as well as unlocking smn to begin with (which once again, not difficult, but could be annoying with weather).

and the core problem: most of those mules may have smn lvled already, but they'll already be in dynamis on healer jobs keeping people alive, aka, not on smn.

[MarkovChain]

I can understand that killing 5 ADL is hard for someone that think unlokcing SMN or doing missions is hard.

[Nynja]

where did I say unlocking smn or doing lv75 missions is hard? lol, you're such a bad troll.

[Apelila]

At this point it is clear that you didn't read that you didn't farm any ADL popset nor read what I said. On day one everyone in a group of 6 would farm a popset on their own, and 1 run is more than enough for a duo to get all the pops(beside nq dl but this one can be killed in 1 minute right before arch DL). You don't have to farm the popset as a linkshell. It would actually be pretty dumb as you will end up bringing a lot of leecher that never farm anything. Also the drop rate are 100% on the NMs.

Again you didn't read so stop arguing with me. 6 real & skilled people will kill ADL without trouble. Just don't bring some of the posters here.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Also, El oh el, I am not arguing with you. I might as well be arguing with a 6 year old on the semantics of Santa Claus, because you're making stuff up.

Do the impossible, See the invisible
Roh roh Post a screenshot!

[Shadowsong]

I can understand that killing 5 ADL is hard for someone that think unlokcing SMN or doing missions is hard.

I'm completely convinced PChan does nothing but play this game, but why is he still so bad at it?
You expect people to level a SMN mule, get to rank 5, complete ToAU, beat all 3 city Dynas, Beat Beauc, all on a character you don't care about, just so you can do a second ADL? Not to mention some people would have to buy a second system in order to dual box because of 1) objections to Windower (lol), or B) Shitty computers.
What drugs are you on, and can I please have some?

[Greatguardian]

He doesn't expect anyone to do anything.

He's fine talking about theory. In theory, can someone level 12 Smn mules for Alex? Sure. Will he? No. Will anyone else? Probably not. Is it relevant? No, not really, but keep on feeding him.

Pchan is one person with one friend and 6 accounts between them. He wants to think ADL can be 6-manned because it's something he's capable of doing. If not, he'll just get pickups or buy the items anyways. Make no mistake, he will probably get a 99 Relic faster than almost anyone here. He won't live up to a single iota of the claims he's making but he will end up with the prize so you may as well just ignore him and let him make his outlandish, irrelevant claims.

[Zaps]

Adding fuel to the fire.

ADL is -not- feasible for most shells. Not because it can't be done, but beacuse the time and effort put into them isn't worth the reward. Thank you SE for the useless bottleneck. I will now to get to spend the next 3 months spamming ADL for all the relics in my shell. Potentially keeping us from making about a mil a day per person.

to the "people who already started collecting umbral marrows so we cant change the trial to kills" comment. Easy fix, make stage 1 kills and stage 2 marrows. If we HAVE to keep ADL in the picture at least make it not terribly stupid. 5 kills work. 20 marrows works. Other then there being NO reason to kill ADL, lets face it, the gear he drops is useless.

Or just make marrow drop off other arch bosses. Literally anything would be better then ADL.


tldr: Relic trial is not "completable by a majority of relic holders", Better trials are easily implemented, I'm sure they don't care.

[Alerith]

Pchan's posts are slipping from "lol" to "pathetic". It's like it's not even trying to be a good troll anymore. /disappoint.

Also, video proof of this duo pops and six man ADL? What are we on, page four on the matter?

[Natasha]

Adding fuel to the fire.

ADL is -not- feasible for most shells. Not because it can't be done, but beacuse the time and effort put into them isn't worth the reward. Thank you SE for the useless bottleneck. I will now to get to spend the next 3 months spamming ADL for all the relics in my shell. Potentially keeping us from making about a mil a day per person.


Or just make marrow drop off other arch bosses. Literally anything would be better then ADL.


tldr: Relic trial is not "completable by a majority of relic holders", Better trials are easily implemented, I'm sure they don't care.

Now, let me first say I agree... Arch Dynamis Lord is really just a bad, bad, bad target for this trial (least stage 1).

BUT, seeing that comment (underlined) just makes me half curious as to how well sarcasm is translated. heh~

[Alerith]

I'm fairly certain it was sarcasm. Unless they make more ??? for popping multiple DL and ADL, it creates a horrible bottleneck where not only are people going to have to wait to pop either NM, the waits are going to inevitably cause lost time in Dynamis.

[Natasha]

I'm fairly certain it was sarcasm. Unless they make more ??? for popping multiple DL and ADL, it creates a horrible bottleneck where not only are people going to have to wait to pop either NM, the waits are going to inevitably cause lost time in Dynamis.

Oh I understood what they meant, I'm just wondering how well that can be translated to our Japanese developers. (does the community team even directly translate comments for the dev team?) idk.

[MarkovChain]

He's fine talking about theory. In theory, can someone level 12 Smn mules for Alex? Sure. Will he? No. Will anyone else? Probably not.

Lolz. Thing is way too many players (like nynja) will dual box a dynamis run for coins instead of leveling 1 bst on their main and a mule (and I repeat, not an alt), which seems pretty idiotic money wise. Then they come here QQ about how doing missions is painful. Oh and yeah supply is so low that all mythics owners do that. This or they waste their RL money on server transfers...




He wants to think ADL can be 6-manned because it's something he's capable of doing..

I think way too many people of this thread never even attempted arch DL and post their opinion on what's feasable and what is not. The fight is the same difficulty as NQ DL if you have perfect defense. The very first attempt I did @ 95 I died from death on tera slash and mdk managed to almost kill it. So yeah, that's what the game is right now guys. BG gimps come complain on the official forums that building a party or alliance to kill a pretty weak NM is not feasable. I bet most of them were killing (read : camping) Fafnir in alliances in 2008. And I'm also willing to bet that they have camped things like cerberus way to many times for an item that sold 500k to split in the LS. AT 75 Nynja also explained us, for instance, that some of the salvage NMs were not duoable (he is still in the "game is hard" period apparently), using this [wrong] statement as an excuse for not farming salvage.

[Apelila]

No proof of anything whatsoever

FTFY.

If ADL is so easy to farm/kill why are you offering so much in your FFXIAH comment for the marrow? Also, why don't you have the title scanned on your profile?

[MarkovChain]

So much ? What game do you guyz play ? 10M is matter of 4 hours of farming dude. 10M of today is 1M of pre abyssea. Your post is good summary of why getting a level 99 relic is not going to be difficult. As I explained previously, there are people that think 10M is a lot and that would sell the drop for that price.

[Apelila]

And you're still paying for them despite saying ADL is easy without having killed it yourself.

[MarkovChain]

They are easy to kill but paying for them is even easier, depending on the price.

[Zaps]

You wont see marrow for sale for a loooooooooong time. Were talking 20m each at a minimum. Most people here dont care about how "hard" the content is. We care about how many people it takes to do it. ADL takes a sizable group, the game has changed to where very large groups of people are kinda rare. We have VWNM's for 18man events, and that's all that's left?

I for one just want some consistency out of SE. They change the game to make smaller groups of people more effective. They make those groups able to be extremely successful. Then they about face last minute and triple the difficulty.

[Nynja]

still no proof of duoing ADL trigger NM's and 6manning ADL? Why are you still posting then?

[Alerith]

I think way too many people of this thread never even attempted arch DL and post their opinion on what's feasable and what is not. The fight is the same difficulty as NQ DL if you have perfect defense. The very first attempt I did @ 95 I died from death on tera slash and mdk managed to almost kill it.

See, what anyone knows is that ADL creates a copy of himself and it's not possible to distinguish the copy from the original. How do you know you almost killed him? Did you kill the copy and proceed to continue fighting the original? Did he not create another copy? How long did this kill exactly take? How many times did you have SMN mules use Perfect Defense?

Something reeks of bullshit.

[Nynja]

pchan was so quick to post proof of a rdm+thf GGears duo back at 75 when I called him on it (yet the proof of burden was can a thf+mage duo get there and kill everything on the way as a duo, of which that wasnt proven)...yet he's hesitating to post proof of this deed. I wonder why.

[Shadowsong]

I count at least 5 PChan posts without a screenshot

[Shadowsong]

...there are people that think 10M is a lot and that would sell the drop for that price.

Stop stop stop stop stop stop stop
just stop, come on now. Where are these people that think 10M is a lot and would sell it?
Stop bro, I never advocate blocking a poster, but there comes a point where even the entertainment value runs thin.

[Sparthos]

Pchan will never deliver on those screens.

If I didn't know any better I'd say he was full of chocobo dung.

[Nynja]

People who think 10 mil is a lot are the same people running around in full aurore claiming AF3+2 is too hard to farm...these are the same people who CANT kill ADL.

[wish12oz]

People who think 10 mil is a lot are the same people running around in full usukane claiming you need a full earth resist set with double earth carol and barstonra to kill Dragua... these are the same people who CANT kill ADL.


Fixed!!!!!!

[Monchat]

pchan was so quick to post proof of a rdm+thf GGears duo back at 75 when I called him on it (yet the proof of burden was can a thf+mage duo get there and kill everything on the way as a duo, of which that wasnt proven)...yet he's hesitating to post proof of this deed. I wonder why.

so you still think a duo cannot kill their way up to that room lol, what can I say. Here is a proof that 3 maning the last NM in this zone is easy: ( this is actually 2 manning, the 3rd is THF here only to put TH on CC):

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/61934-Three-man-Citadel-Chelonian.

If a 3 man team can reach CC in 85 minute, a 2 man team can reach the previous floor in 50min ish.

But this reminds me that: you thought 6 manning the last floor of arrapago in under 7 minute was imposssible at 75 w/o a bard ( hey last week I solo killed on monk the whole floor in 5min), you thought 3 manning Nyzlul all the way to floor 100 was impossible, and so on.

[Kimble]

Lol and here comes the puppet to defend the master.

Why can't either of you post a damn video of you duoing the all the pop items, then 6 manning ADL?

[Alerith]

so you still think a duo cannot kill their way up to that room lol, what can I say. Here is a proof that 3 maning the last NM in this zone is easy: ( this is actually 2 manning, the 3rd is THF here only to put TH on CC):

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/61934-Three-man-Citadel-Chelonian.

If a 3 man team can reach CC in 85 minute, a 2 man team can reach the previous floor in 50min ish.

But this reminds me that: you thought 6 manning the last floor of arrapago in under 7 minute was imposssible at 75 w/o a bard ( hey last week I solo killed on monk the whole floor in 5min), you thought 3 manning Nyzlul all the way to floor 100 was impossible, and so on.

Stand your ground! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9_a8xJesuQ)

[MarkovChain]

People who think 10 mil is a lot are the same people running around in full aurore claiming AF3+2 is too hard to farm...these are the same people who CANT kill ADL.

Sounds like you then :P

[Alerith]

People who think 10 mil is a lot are the same people running around in full aurore claiming AF3+2 is too hard to farm...these are the same people who CANT kill ADL.

To be fair, I think 10mil is a lot and I did all my +2 and Almace. Most all that stuff is Rare/Ex which means "Free with the proper amount of effort."


Sounds like you then :P

Fail troll is fail.

[Nynja]

Sounds like you then :P

Funny I have my AF3+2 sets and I didnt have to brew dragua...

are you girls going to post those duoed ADL popsets? Or are you guys wiping over and over and over?

[MarkovChain]

You need to evolve past abyssea seriously, soon as something requires more than you and your mule you are lost. Let's see what I liked at 75 : salvage. Going by your logic, entering salvage 5 times with a PT of 6 is too hard. Even worse getting an odin pop set is not doable by the majority of players (after the nerf it required 3 wins with ~30 ppl). Getting an Ultima popset of back in the day required much more work that what it takes to kill 5 ADL. Killing a DL (nq!) was quite the must. Are you saying those things were impossible for the average player ? I mean just getting a JoL popset is a lot more work that ADL, yet countless of people were doing it.